Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 5298870 times)

Bruised_Pepper

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1500 on: January 15, 2014, 11:14:20 PM »
Yeah the redundency requirement is or should be pretty much standard at every major company. The Poles let that one slide 2 years ago and ended up with a sizeable chunk of their government taken out. Ouch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Polish_Air_Force_Tu-154_crash

Royal families do that too. The British newspapers were talking about how it's unprecedented that Prince William plans to take the same flight as his son on their next overseas trip. Direct heirs don't travel together as a custom.

I find this especially silly since the Royal family isn't really governing the country.

The sovereign country of Alaska??

T-Rex

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1501 on: January 16, 2014, 04:22:01 AM »
"I can't wait for this deployment to be over so I can to go home to my new house, and my new custom SUV." -a guy that is extremely close to getting the boot if he doesn't pick up the next rank
"The APR is only 45.9% ... I'm already paying it off with my new credit cards!"

153

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1502 on: January 16, 2014, 06:21:49 AM »

ho. ly. shit.


Update: same CW. She stopped by my office and said hey thanks for the help. I said no problem.

THEN SHE GOES: I just don't want to not be able to spend my money now. I want to enjoy it while I'm young. I'll eat ramen when I'm 55 and old. I said, old you might appreciate young you's foresight. Nope- I don't worry about being poor when I'm old, I won't care it- will be fine.

Headdesk.

Daleth

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1503 on: January 16, 2014, 10:17:23 AM »
I've always thought that if I ever became absurdly wealthy, private aviation would be the one thing I'd splurge on in ways that aren't really justifiable.  The quantity of hassle that is avoided by flying private is amazing.  That said, I know it's incredibly expensive and awful for the environment.

Expensive, for sure, but is it really worse for the environment than flying on a commercial jet?

I'm fairly certain that the idea here is that each time you use your own private jet, amount of resources consumed per person is much higher than the amount of resources consumed per person if you were to book a flight on a commercial airliner with 100+ other people.

Right, but that's what I have trouble believing. Even just looking at fuel costs (leaving out maintenance, crew salaries, other engine fluids, etc.), it would mean that the cost of fuel for flying a 70-ton (140,000 pound) Airbus 320 with two jet engines and 150 passengers from point A to point B is less than 25 times as much as the cost of fuel for flying that same distance in a 3700-pound Beechcraft Bonanza with one propeller engine and six passengers.

And there's just no way that's possible. In addition to the fact the Airbus is about 50 times heavier, jet engines burn more fuel than prop engines, and there are two of them on the Airbus.

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1504 on: January 16, 2014, 10:42:54 AM »
And there's just no way that's possible. In addition to the fact the Airbus is about 50 times heavier, jet engines burn more fuel than prop engines, and there are two of them on the Airbus.
I thought jet engines got more efficiency because they're hotter-running. Perhaps they are but that's more than offset by the increased drag from going nearly the speed of sound rather than prop-plane slow?

They'd have to be 50% more efficient to take the fuel consumption ratio down to 25x from the 37.5x weight multiple. That's a little harder to believe.

AlanStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1505 on: January 16, 2014, 11:48:01 AM »
Did the math and strictly on a fuel usage basis it looks close between a Beechcraft Bonanza with four or six people and a 737 with 125 people. We have to convert to true airspeed and use a standard travel distance to compensate for the radically different speeds

Beechcraft Bonanza:
   basic numbers from the intertube: 169 knots @ ~15kft, 16 gal/hr
   true airspeed: 211 knot  (http://www.hochwarth.com/misc/AviationCalculator.html)
   assume 100 nautical mile test run.
   time = distance/speed: 100nm / 211knot = 0.47hr
   fuel burn: 0.47hr*16gal/hr: 7.52 gal
   fuel per person (6 people): 7.52 gal / 6 people = 1.25 gal-per person
   fuel per person (4 people): 7.52 gal / 4 people = 1.88 gal-per person
      
Generic 737:
   basic numbers from the intert-tube: 0.74 mach at 30kft, 5500 lb/hr-> 816 gal/hr
   true airspeed: 436 knot
   assume 100 nautical mile test run.
   time = distance/speed: 100nm / 436knots = 0.23hr
   fuel burn: 0.23hr*816gal/hr: 187 gal
   fuel per person: 187 gal / 125 people = 1.4 gal-per person

There are 1001 assumptions in this but it looks like the two are close in terms of fuel usage and it could go either way with the exact number of people on board. 

EDIT: But they would be using different types of gas that cost differently and Delta does not buy at Joes-gas-n-fly, but Delta may have less choice where they buy and local taxes...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 11:54:03 AM by AlanStache »
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Jamesqf

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1506 on: January 16, 2014, 12:09:21 PM »
There are 1001 assumptions in this but it looks like the two are close in terms of fuel usage and it could go either way with the exact number of people on board.

One thing here is that you're not counting climb & descent.  If you're flying any distance in a jet, most of the trip is going to be around 30K ft altitude, where air resistance is  low.  In a Bonanza, most of the trip will be IIRC at 12,500 or below.

Then you need to consider the whole trip, not just the airplane part.  The smaller the plane, the greater the chance of landing close to your destination.

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1507 on: January 16, 2014, 12:14:11 PM »
Did the math and strictly on a fuel usage basis it looks close between a Beechcraft Bonanza with four or six people and a 737 with 125 people. We have to convert to true airspeed and use a standard travel distance to compensate for the radically different speeds

Beechcraft Bonanza:
   basic numbers from the intertube: 169 knots @ ~15kft, 16 gal/hr
   true airspeed: 211 knot  (http://www.hochwarth.com/misc/AviationCalculator.html)
   assume 100 nautical mile test run.
   time = distance/speed: 100nm / 211knot = 0.47hr
   fuel burn: 0.47hr*16gal/hr: 7.52 gal
   fuel per person (6 people): 7.52 gal / 6 people = 1.25 gal-per person
   fuel per person (4 people): 7.52 gal / 4 people = 1.88 gal-per person
      
Generic 737:
   basic numbers from the intert-tube: 0.74 mach at 30kft, 5500 lb/hr-> 816 gal/hr
   true airspeed: 436 knot
   assume 100 nautical mile test run.
   time = distance/speed: 100nm / 436knots = 0.23hr
   fuel burn: 0.23hr*816gal/hr: 187 gal
   fuel per person: 187 gal / 125 people = 1.4 gal-per person

There are 1001 assumptions in this but it looks like the two are close in terms of fuel usage and it could go either way with the exact number of people on board. 

EDIT: But they would be using different types of gas that cost differently and Delta does not buy at Joes-gas-n-fly, but Delta may have less choice where they buy and local taxes...

This is a silly comparison. There are so many variables to say that one plane is more efficient than the other based on 100 theoretical miles at cruise speed/fuel burn is misleading. In some instances the Bonanza will be more efficient and in some cases the 737 will. If you need to move 4 people 150 miles then the Bonanza will be more efficient but over longer distances with more people the 737 will win.

Jets get their efficiency from flying higher than a propeller driven plane can. The atmosphere is significantly thinner allowing them to travel faster with less drag.
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NumberCruncher

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1508 on: January 16, 2014, 12:15:15 PM »
Additionally - don't private "jets" have jet engines? The Beechcraft Bonanza doesn't look like any private jets you see CEOs jetting off in...looks like something used for getting to small islands and the like.

AlanStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1509 on: January 16, 2014, 12:18:05 PM »
Both sets of numbers were at cruise.  That is the 737 fuel flow was for at 30kft and the Bonanza was at 15kft.  That said yes the comparison is still largely silly that is why assumptions were listed.

EDIT: The premise of this is like comparing two cars strictly on fuel costs, it may be meaningful for comparable cars but is less than idea for a Tessla vs Smart Car.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 12:36:06 PM by AlanStache »
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huadpe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1510 on: January 16, 2014, 12:33:40 PM »
Both sets of numbers were at cruise.  That is the 737 fuel flow was for at 30kft and the Bonanza was at 15kft.  That said yes the comparison is still largely silly that is why assumptions were listed.

I dunno, maybe my trips in my friend's bonanza were really unusual, but we hardly ever got above 5000 feet.  This was usually a relatively short hop from FRG to ACY though. 

Also, I realize that flying to Atlantic City for the night is not a very mustachian thing to do.  But really, flying to Atlantic City in a private plane for just my fifth of the fuel cost was well worth how much fun those couple adventures were.

AlanStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1511 on: January 16, 2014, 12:44:19 PM »
For a given airplane ground speed normally get faster and things more efficient per mile as you go higher*.  But the hassle of going higher has a steep slope, especially for short hops.  Weather, winds, ATC, supplemental oxygen, time to climb up/coast down, f-ing cold, less flying margin, etc

higher*: massively broad and simplistic statement I will not defend :-)
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nawhite

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1512 on: January 16, 2014, 01:03:57 PM »
For a given airplane ground speed normally get faster and things more efficient per mile as you go higher*.  But the hassle of going higher has a steep slope, especially for short hops.  Weather, winds, ATC, supplemental oxygen, time to climb up/coast down, f-ing cold, less flying margin, etc

higher*: massively broad and simplistic statement I will not defend :-)

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Please go somewhere else to discuss airplanes (like the Off Topic part of this forum, that's what its for).

If anyone would like to continue discussing funny anti-mustachian things they heard at work, that would be nice. Otherwise this thread needs to be locked and restarted.
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Russ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1513 on: January 16, 2014, 01:21:21 PM »
I think it would be even more ridiculous to lock the longest thread on the forum just because it went ever so slightly OT for less than a page...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 02:37:17 PM by Russ »

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1514 on: January 16, 2014, 01:25:08 PM »
If it helps I've been at work for the entire airplane discussion :)
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grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1515 on: January 16, 2014, 01:25:55 PM »
If it helps I've been at work for the entire airplane discussion :)
And the NSA listened to every word he said. Therefore, it's overheard at work!

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1516 on: January 16, 2014, 01:37:25 PM »
If it helps I've been at work for the entire airplane discussion :)
And the NSA listened to every word he said. Therefore, it's overheard at work!

I use steganography to encode secret messages disguised as aeronautic discussions

AlanStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1517 on: January 16, 2014, 01:39:02 PM »
My coworker once said that he spends more than 20k$ per year to maintain and store his personal airplane.
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AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1518 on: January 16, 2014, 01:58:56 PM »
If it helps I've been at work for the entire airplane discussion :)
And the NSA listened to every word he said. Therefore, it's overheard at work!

Lol. I like your style.
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mlipps

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1519 on: January 16, 2014, 02:35:44 PM »
I think it would be even more ridiculous to lock the longest thread on the forum just because went ever so slightly OT for less than a page...

+1

CNM

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1520 on: January 16, 2014, 02:41:37 PM »
"Budgets are for poor people"


I work in an office full of accountants. We see the inner workings of people's financial lives. We should be smarter than this.

Wow!  My husband's a CPA and he frequently comments (generally, w/o disclosing anything confidential of course!) about how bad most people are with their money, especially youngish people like us and trust-funders.

impaire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1521 on: January 16, 2014, 03:54:00 PM »
"Budgets are for poor people"


I work in an office full of accountants. We see the inner workings of people's financial lives. We should be smarter than this.

Wow!  My husband's a CPA and he frequently comments (generally, w/o disclosing anything confidential of course!) about how bad most people are with their money, especially youngish people like us and trust-funders.

The first time I went to see a financial planner, with my husband, we were considering buying a house (a very silly decision, our location wasn't stable, my employment wasn't stable, the area we were looking at was very expensive... Plus we were already 30 with almost no money set aside). We'd done a little bit of research, the guy was accredited as a CPA and had some kind of qualification as a planner. Our question was, how much of our savings should we stop directing at retirement and use to build up a down-payment?

The "financial adviser," who looked to be in his 50s, answered "oh you should just pretty much put everything you can in the house fund, after all you're young, you have plenty of time to save for retirement."

Thank God he added "Look at me, I'm a financial planner, and I just started saving for retirement now that my kids are done with college! My son is always making fun of me for it!" That pretty much convinced me not to listen to anything he had to say...

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1522 on: January 16, 2014, 05:24:55 PM »
The "financial adviser," who looked to be in his 50s, answered "oh you should just pretty much put everything you can in the house fund, after all you're young, you have plenty of time to save for retirement."
Thank God he added "Look at me, I'm a financial planner, and I just started saving for retirement now that my kids are done with college! My son is always making fun of me for it!" That pretty much convinced me not to listen to anything he had to say...

Sweet Jesus. How are we supposed to function as a society when people who are qualified to give financial advice dispense absolute shit like the above quote. I mean really. Fuck. Really?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 06:42:08 PM by AlmostIndependent »
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Bruised_Pepper

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1523 on: January 16, 2014, 06:41:33 PM »
The "financial adviser," who looked to be in his 50s, answered "oh you should just pretty much put everything you can in the house fund, after all you're young, you have plenty of time to save fo
Thank God he added "Look at me, I'm a financial planner, and I just started saving for retirement now that my kids are done with college! My son is always making fun of me for it!" That pretty much convinced me not to listen to anything he had to say...

Sweet Jesus. How are we supposed to function as a society when people who are qualified to give financial advice dispense absolute shit like the above quote. I mean really. Fuck. Really?

I've noticed a recent trend around here suggesting that CPAs have no financial planning savvy.  It's probably just all the bad examples, but they're certainly living up to their "bean counter" reputation in these parts. 

englyn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1524 on: January 16, 2014, 06:42:47 PM »
Sweet Jesus. How are we supposed to function as a society when people who are qualified to give financial advice dispense absolute shit like the above quote. I mean really. Fuck. Really?
This.

Also, love the reference in the sig.

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1525 on: January 16, 2014, 06:47:20 PM »
I've noticed a recent trend around here suggesting that CPAs have no financial planning savvy.  It's probably just all the bad examples, but they're certainly living up to their "bean counter" reputation in these parts.

It's been my experience that there are morons in every profession. This happens to be a money-centric forum so the money-centric 'professionals' draw a lot of ire from the crowd here when they give less than stellar advice.
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impaire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1526 on: January 16, 2014, 07:01:08 PM »
Well, I've met with other CPAs* and one financial planner since then, and they have all given us good advice (or no advice but been good at what they did). This guy on the other hand, I have to trot him out once in a while because I'm still laughing about the encounter. I hope that he does not do too much damage by giving advice like what he shared with us, honestly we were so naive at the time we may have trusted him if he had not volunteered proof of his moronism...

[*plus my MIL, who is trained as a CPA and can squeeze every single penny of a tax return... and yet is the greatest example of a penny-wise-pound-foolish person I've ever met.]

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1527 on: January 16, 2014, 07:01:42 PM »
I've noticed a recent trend around here suggesting that CPAs have no financial planning savvy.
Yeah, and physicists make terrible doctors. Musicians can't write poetry for shit, either.

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1528 on: January 16, 2014, 09:03:23 PM »
Also, love the reference in the sig.

It's my favorite quote from one of my favorite books.
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Jamesqf

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1529 on: January 16, 2014, 10:01:30 PM »
I dunno, maybe my trips in my friend's bonanza were really unusual, but we hardly ever got above 5000 feet.  This was usually a relatively short hop from FRG to ACY though.

All depends on where you live.  Lot of places hereabouts, getting to 5000 ft MSL requires mining :-)

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1530 on: January 16, 2014, 10:09:59 PM »
I dunno, maybe my trips in my friend's bonanza were really unusual, but we hardly ever got above 5000 feet.  This was usually a relatively short hop from FRG to ACY though.

All depends on where you live.  Lot of places hereabouts, getting to 5000 ft MSL requires mining :-)

I know some people who tried mining in a small airplane. Doesn't usually turn out so well.
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odput

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1531 on: January 17, 2014, 06:42:31 AM »
The "financial adviser," who looked to be in his 50s, answered "oh you should just pretty much put everything you can in the house fund, after all you're young, you have plenty of time to save fo
Thank God he added "Look at me, I'm a financial planner, and I just started saving for retirement now that my kids are done with college! My son is always making fun of me for it!" That pretty much convinced me not to listen to anything he had to say...

Sweet Jesus. How are we supposed to function as a society when people who are qualified to give financial advice dispense absolute shit like the above quote. I mean really. Fuck. Really?

I've noticed a recent trend around here suggesting that CPAs have no financial planning savvy.  It's probably just all the bad examples, but they're certainly living up to their "bean counter" reputation in these parts.

I realize that there are good and bad performers in every field, but if your area of "expertise" is money and you SUCK at handling money, shouldn't you get weeded out of that job or something?  Or is the fact that 95% of the people you encounter are worse at it than you are somehow make it OK?

jba302

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1532 on: January 17, 2014, 06:51:03 AM »

I realize that there are good and bad performers in every field, but if your area of "expertise" is money and you SUCK at handling money, shouldn't you get weeded out of that job or something?  Or is the fact that 95% of the people you encounter are worse at it than you are somehow make it OK?

My wife is an amazing accountant and has very little investing knowledge, the finance people do this part. It probably has to do with the fact that they aren't the same thing. Accounting is about past -> current status and reconciliation of accounts, financial planning is current -> future status and such.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1533 on: January 17, 2014, 09:00:38 AM »
I realize that there are good and bad performers in every field, but if your area of "expertise" is money and you SUCK at handling money, shouldn't you get weeded out of that job or something?  Or is the fact that 95% of the people you encounter are worse at it than you are somehow make it OK?
I realize that there are good and bad performers in every field, but if your area of "expertise" is physics and you SUCK at administering chemotherapy, shouldn't you get weeded out of that job or something?  Or is the fact that 95% of the people you encounter are worse at it than you are somehow make it OK?

odput

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1534 on: January 17, 2014, 09:13:04 AM »
Not sure I understand the analogy, because all I can think is that its apples and oranges...if you suck at chemo, you get fired (weeded out).  Does that same type of thing not happen in the financial advice industry?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1535 on: January 17, 2014, 09:28:40 AM »
This site says the operating costs for a Bonanza G36 are $109.20/hour and 59 cents per nautical mile:
http://www.what2fly.com/operating_cost/beechcraft/36_bonanza_a36.php

That contrasts VERY VERY favorably with the operating costs of a Learjet 25D, at $1681/hour and $3.66/nautical mile--and the Lear only seats 10 people (2 crew/8 passengers), four more than the Bonanza!
http://www.what2fly.com/operating_cost/learjet/lear_25d.php

Additionally - don't private "jets" have jet engines? The Beechcraft Bonanza doesn't look like any private jets you see CEOs jetting off in...looks like something used for getting to small islands and the like.

Yes, private jets have jet engines. The Beechcraft Bonanza G36 has a service ceiling of 18,500 feet--anything above 10,000 requires oxygen--so it benefits from some of the same low-density air (low drag) as jets do, though certainly not as much. I know people who fly Beechcrafts halfway across the US on a regular basis; a 1500 mile trip would take about 7 hours, which sounds long compared to flying on a commercial jet until you remember that you don't have to allow any time for check-in, getting through security, flight delays etc., and both departure and landing airports can be much closer than a major airport is to where you live/where you're going. And if you feel like breaking the trip into a couple of legs, you can stop anywhere you want--there are small general aviation airports all over the place--because as a smaller plane, you don't need a long runway; you can land in a much shorter distance.

Jets are also a lot more complicated to fly, and you need much more training to fly them--so you'd have to spend a heck of a lot more just becoming qualified to fly one, before you could enjoy the privilege (haha) of spending a lot more to fly them.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1536 on: January 17, 2014, 09:29:31 AM »
I operate a large ship for a living. There is a certain amount of finesse that is required to dock a ship, it's not something that everyone is good at, even after years on the job. Unless someone screws up and actually damages something it's very hard to fire them. It seems crazy to me, but thats what Ive seen. Eventually most weed themselves out, but it can be a long process. Should they be fired? Probably. Will it happen? Probably not.
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Daleth

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1537 on: January 17, 2014, 09:31:21 AM »
Thank God he added "Look at me, I'm a financial planner, and I just started saving for retirement now that my kids are done with college! My son is always making fun of me for it!" That pretty much convinced me not to listen to anything he had to say...

Haha! Omigod. That's kind of like saying, "Look at me, I'm a nurse, and I'm standing here smoking and eating a Big Mac." Oh wait, that happens a lot too, doesn't it... yikes.

Maigahane

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1538 on: January 17, 2014, 09:34:05 AM »
Part of the problem is that people in general seem to assume CPA's have knowledge in areas they don't. I've passed the exam though not technically a CPA since I don't have the job history and I get asked all the time about investments. I know enough to diversify and stay out of overly risky investments but that's basically it. As a pp said, accounting in historical information, finance is future.

Also, to a point I think it's kinda the same as with doctors over-medicating: give the person what they want to hear to get them to shut up. People don't want to hear "put down the fried foods and go for a jog" or "quit buying dumb shit" so the advisors that say that usually don't get/keep clients

mlipps

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1539 on: January 17, 2014, 10:08:25 AM »
Not sure I understand the analogy, because all I can think is that its apples and oranges...if you suck at chemo, you get fired (weeded out).  Does that same type of thing not happen in the financial advice industry?

What grant is saying is that, despite what some people here seem to think, there is very little overlap between being a CPA and actual financial planning.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1540 on: January 17, 2014, 10:55:25 AM »
Right. People who don't actually administer chemotherapy do not tend to get fired for being bad at administering chemotherapy. CPAs audit publically traded companies and provide tax planning advice (mostly for corporations), and don't do financial planning.

willn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1541 on: January 17, 2014, 01:02:37 PM »
"Budgets are for poor people"


I work in an office full of accountants. We see the inner workings of people's financial lives. We should be smarter than this.

Wow!  My husband's a CPA and he frequently comments (generally, w/o disclosing anything confidential of course!) about how bad most people are with their money, especially youngish people like us and trust-funders.

The first time I went to see a financial planner, with my husband, we were considering buying a house (a very silly decision, our location wasn't stable, my employment wasn't stable, the area we were looking at was very expensive... Plus we were already 30 with almost no money set aside). We'd done a little bit of research, the guy was accredited as a CPA and had some kind of qualification as a planner. Our question was, how much of our savings should we stop directing at retirement and use to build up a down-payment?

The "financial adviser," who looked to be in his 50s, answered "oh you should just pretty much put everything you can in the house fund, after all you're young, you have plenty of time to save for retirement."

Thank God he added "Look at me, I'm a financial planner, and I just started saving for retirement now that my kids are done with college! My son is always making fun of me for it!" That pretty much convinced me not to listen to anything he had to say...

Look, the guy might have been an unqualified doofus, that didn't manage his own finances according to mustachian dogmatic protocol, and he may have responded a bit flippantly, but on its face, it isn't horrible advice in general to stop contributing to retirement for a short while to pile up a down payment on the house.  It may not be the right advice for you, at that time, or if you want to be an extremely early retiree.

But delaying retirement for two years so that you can meet another important goal isn't unreasonable and works out very well for many people, because they do have lots of time to save.  And people often develop a previously undiscovered savings muscle when they have a big goal together, like a house, so they are then set off on a good path.


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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1542 on: January 17, 2014, 07:43:13 PM »
"Budgets are for poor people"


I work in an office full of accountants. We see the inner workings of people's financial lives. We should be smarter than this.

Wow!  My husband's a CPA and he frequently comments (generally, w/o disclosing anything confidential of course!) about how bad most people are with their money, especially youngish people like us and trust-funders.

The first time I went to see a financial planner, with my husband, we were considering buying a house (a very silly decision, our location wasn't stable, my employment wasn't stable, the area we were looking at was very expensive... Plus we were already 30 with almost no money set aside). We'd done a little bit of research, the guy was accredited as a CPA and had some kind of qualification as a planner. Our question was, how much of our savings should we stop directing at retirement and use to build up a down-payment?

The "financial adviser," who looked to be in his 50s, answered "oh you should just pretty much put everything you can in the house fund, after all you're young, you have plenty of time to save for retirement."

Thank God he added "Look at me, I'm a financial planner, and I just started saving for retirement now that my kids are done with college! My son is always making fun of me for it!" That pretty much convinced me not to listen to anything he had to say...

Look, the guy might have been an unqualified doofus, that didn't manage his own finances according to mustachian dogmatic protocol, and he may have responded a bit flippantly, but on its face, it isn't horrible advice in general to stop contributing to retirement for a short while to pile up a down payment on the house.  It may not be the right advice for you, at that time, or if you want to be an extremely early retiree.

But delaying retirement for two years so that you can meet another important goal isn't unreasonable and works out very well for many people, because they do have lots of time to save.  And people often develop a previously undiscovered savings muscle when they have a big goal together, like a house, so they are then set off on a good path.


Hm, I kept the story a bit short, but it was a horrible idea for us to be buying given the rest of our financial situation. As you write, "at that time", it was not the right advice for us at all. Another example: he gave us the advice to "perhaps cut down on buying clothes," which is perhaps not a bad idea in general... but was totally unadapted in our case, since I hate shopping and at the time my husband was actually borderline frumpy. We however ate out 4-5 times a week (in NYC), but eating out was not even mentioned in the discussion. Ha!

Now, I will say that grantmeaname has a point: we wanted financial advice, and the guy billed himself as a financial planner... but the only qualification I checked for was him being a CPA. I really don't know why I was expecting that to be a relevant criteria :p

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1543 on: January 17, 2014, 08:52:17 PM »
We just wrapped up a big project so everyone has been working long hours all week. At one point late last night this conversation occurred. (note: cw1 has a newborn)

cw1: So yesterday was the first time i didn't see [insert child's name] all day...
cw2: Oh yeah? That sucks, but it will happen more often than you think.
cw1: Really?
cw2: Sure, it gets even worse when your kids can talk and you get home late and they say "Where have you been? I missed you all day". Sometimes I just want to reply: 'This is what happens when you go to college! You get a job and you have to work all day to pay bills and send your kids to college!'
cw1: hahaha
cw2: hahaha

I just shut my mouth and left the room. I thought the whole thing was really sad...

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1544 on: January 17, 2014, 09:15:26 PM »
We just wrapped up a big project so everyone has been working long hours all week. At one point late last night this conversation occurred. (note: cw1 has a newborn)

cw1: So yesterday was the first time i didn't see [insert child's name] all day...
cw2: Oh yeah? That sucks, but it will happen more often than you think.
cw1: Really?
cw2: Sure, it gets even worse when your kids can talk and you get home late and they say "Where have you been? I missed you all day". Sometimes I just want to reply: 'This is what happens when you go to college! You get a job and you have to work all day to pay bills and send your kids to college!'
cw1: hahaha
cw2: hahaha

I just shut my mouth and left the room. I thought the whole thing was really sad...

My dislike of work is what initially made me want to retire early. I'm still glad I'm headed down that path but for different reasons now. This conversation really drove that home for me. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1545 on: January 18, 2014, 11:59:17 AM »
Another overheard er actually witnessed this one . . .

Company owner's son was sent with an assistant from Montreal to Chicago to meet with clients at a jobsite last Monday.  Instead of taking a direct flight from Montreal to Chicago said owner's son and pal scheduled the flight to 'stop over' in Denver and spend the night exploring as they had heard it was legal to buy pot there.  They swear they bought some 'good shit' there and yacked about how cool it was.  (Do I believe this?)  Not personal financial irresponsibility but my head is still spinning. 

Nothing any of us could do when this idiot and his assistant spun the story other than sit, nod our heads, smile and tell him what a smart guy he was and "How cool!  How fun!"  (None of us have smoked since high school/college.  Nuttin' wrong with it as far as we're concerned but don't do it on the company's dime when the company is laying off people and no-one's had a raise or bonus in years).  Note:  these 2 are in their early 30's.  Old enough to have more sense.

I'm still furious and me head's a still a spinnin'.  How much a** kissing and pee-pee smooching is required fer cripes sake?

Glad to have a job tho right about now.  Prospects are not good in this area and in our field.  We're maybe 8 - 10 years from FIRE.

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1546 on: January 18, 2014, 01:34:27 PM »
Another overheard er actually witnessed this one . . .

Company owner's son was sent with an assistant from Montreal to Chicago to meet with clients at a jobsite last Monday.  Instead of taking a direct flight from Montreal to Chicago said owner's son and pal scheduled the flight to 'stop over' in Denver and spend the night exploring as they had heard it was legal to buy pot there.  They swear they bought some 'good shit' there and yacked about how cool it was.  (Do I believe this?)  Not personal financial irresponsibility but my head is still spinning. 

Nothing any of us could do when this idiot and his assistant spun the story other than sit, nod our heads, smile and tell him what a smart guy he was and "How cool!  How fun!"  (None of us have smoked since high school/college.  Nuttin' wrong with it as far as we're concerned but don't do it on the company's dime when the company is laying off people and no-one's had a raise or bonus in years).  Note:  these 2 are in their early 30's.  Old enough to have more sense.

I'm still furious and me head's a still a spinnin'.  How much a** kissing and pee-pee smooching is required fer cripes sake?

Glad to have a job tho right about now.  Prospects are not good in this area and in our field.  We're maybe 8 - 10 years from FIRE.

Family businesses are always fun, especially if there are people like that in the mix. Always makes for an interesting work environment.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1547 on: January 20, 2014, 03:03:02 AM »
We had a "welcome back to work" afternoon today.

One lady (about 60) asked how my mum was, and she couldn't believe it when I said they'd retired and moved away to another town. She then made fun of my parents for retiring early (both at 55), and asked if I was going to save up really hard to do the same. I laughed, and said yes. (I didn't tell her I was planning on being retired way before 55!)

The boss was telling us how her daughter recently moved to the big city to go to university. Since she was living right in the city, she found she wasn't able to use her car very much, because living in the city and public transport was too good. So, this year, the daughter is moving to an outer city suburb, simply so she could use her car more. Doh.


Daleth

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1548 on: January 20, 2014, 08:56:18 AM »
The boss was telling us how her daughter recently moved to the big city to go to university. Since she was living right in the city, she found she wasn't able to use her car very much, because living in the city and public transport was too good. So, this year, the daughter is moving to an outer city suburb, simply so she could use her car more. Doh.

WTF?! This is the clearest proof yet that there are aliens in our midst.

Kaspian

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1549 on: January 20, 2014, 11:13:41 AM »
Woman at work this morning complaining that when she retires in 10 years it could be very difficult to live on our (government) pension.  When I asked if she had any investments in RRSPs (401K) she says, "No--those things are a scam!  ...And besides, it could put me in a higher tax bracket."

Errr..  You're worried that you won't have enough, but don't want to have enough because you might pay more in tax?  Somebody please explain this to me?
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