Overheard at Work

[ysette9]

Do you work at a junior high?

[Feral Car Rescue]

So my company payroll system is a little weird starting out, such that it takes 3 weeks from your start date to receive your first paycheck (actually this has been standard at every company I've worked at, but several people I know say it's just the worst). But they tell you this up-front, plus they paid for all of your moving expenses, so I saved my paychecks from my previous job, and also used the cashout from my sick leave to hold me over til I got my next paycheck. It wasn't much, but it was enough to rent an apartment and drive me and my immediate family the 1800 miles to get to my new residence (I paid for us to have a Christmas trip, because I wasn't gonna be able to come home for the holidays), and buy food, etc.

Anyhoo. Was talking to a coworker at lunch, and somehow this awkward 3-week window of time came up. She and her husband didn't have a lot of money to come out here, so they had to use their credit card to make ends meet during that 3 week period. She mentioned she "wasn't allowed" to put any more on that card until she paid off what they had incurred during that 3 week period of time.

They moved here, to a LCOL area, 4 years ago... and their combined gross income is close to $150k...

[firelight]

Wow! How much did they spend to move?

[ysette9]

When I was in undergrad I got a summer internship in another state. I drove out there, rented a room on Craigslist, and started working.
 It took the usual two weeks before a check got cut. A physical check went out for the first pay period. That got mailed to my parents’ house in my home state. They then had to mail it to me, and I had to then mail it to my bank in a third state (the dark days before mobile deposit). In all it was over a month before I saw any money and I was buying groceries on my credit card because I was a broke college student. That was the closest I’ve come to a bad situation. Thankfully I always had the privilege of knowing that if shit hit the fan, I could get my parents to loan me enough to keep myself fed. I also knew I never wanted to legitimately find myself in a position where I wasn’t sure whether I could buy groceries. Scary stuff.

[Feral Car Rescue]

Wow! How much did they spend to move?

I was afraid to ask... And afraid of my response... I know moving can be expensive (The receipt that the moving company gave me for how much they charged my company was 26k!!!!) but as employees we weren't responsible for any of that, just hotel and gas to get to our work location, and even that was reimbursed a month or so after we started working. So this would be basic living expenses- apartment deposit, rent, groceries, maybe some housewares, etc. Totally get you might need to use a card that first month to take care of expenses before your paycheck hits, but 4 years?

[auntie_betty]

Yikes! I have friends with a cabin and I do get envious that they get to go up seemingly anytime they want during warm weather days. It would be nice to get away. And then I realized the stress of having to maintain another home.

At one point before "enlightenment", Mrs Gremlin and I thought about buying a second place near the beach about an hour away.  We crunched the numbers and worked out that the cost of owning such a place would mean that we'd have to go there pretty much every weekend in order to come out ahead of doing a holiday let whenever we got the urge for a beach weekend away.  Needless to say, it very quickly became an easy decision not to buy!

There has been a whole thread about whether having a cabin is a good idea. The conclusion is that the more simple the cabin is (off the grid, not garden, small), the cheaper it is and the least work to maintain. If the cabin becomes a second home, it is a lot of work and pricy.
We have a simple type of cabin, but with electricity and property tax on it and we pay approx 2000 USD a year for using it 30-40 days spread over the year. Not counting transportation cost.

There's also other considerations.

For one, vacation property will not likely appreciate like the stock market, but it won't depreciate like a vacation (i.e. worth $0).  My wife's family has a cabin they bought in the 1980s for ~$100k in cash (plus probably another $100k over that time in property taxes), it's now worth ~$400k.  Yes, had they invested that money they'd have more than the $400k, but had they spent the same +/- $100k over the last 30 years renting it for $1k/wk 3x a year they'd have $0. 

Second, for a lot of people, a second home is a labor of love.  Hell, look at MMM, he loves to work with his hands, so much so that he basically retired to start a construction company.  It is not inconceivable that other people view the maintenance on their vacation home the same way; it's a project they can work on and they enjoy it.  Hell, my FIL basically invents work at his cabin so he can have stuff to work on up there because he can't just sit on the dock all day, he'd get bored; he's much happier working on the cabin.

For me, buying a vacation home was the worst financial mistake I ever made - the Spanish property market crashed and now, 10 years later, it's still only worth just over 1/2 what I paid for it.

And yet, the value is incalculable. The very first night we stayed there I sat on the terrace and watched the sun set over the mountain, then all the lights in the village on the hill come on. I decided there and then I didn't want it as a holiday home, I wanted to live there.

It took seven years of scrimping and saving every penny, minimum 3.5 hour commutes etc - but I retired at 53 (then we moved to the coast instead but I still miss my twinkling lights!). No way would I have been able to achieve it if I hadn't had something concrete to aim for.


Best financial mistake I ever made (and now we have long term tenants in holiday apartment).

[eazyebeneezer]

Overheard new CW tell other CW that she just called to setup the automatic contributions to her ROTH again, now that she is once again employed - all good.

The rep told her that her ROTH the money in her account hasn't been invested for the past 6(!) years, it's just being held in cash.

How have you not looked at any statement to notice that in the past 6 years? Wow.

This is embarrassing. I did that for four years. Face palm. The thing is someone had told me I should choose a target date fund. Somewhere else on the website I selected my target date for retirement, but it wasn't for investment purposes, more like a calculator. When the balance was staying the same I was blissfully ignorant as to why. Finally figured it out when I started diving into the FI stuff. Yes, it was stupid, but nobody teaches you this stuff until you go learn it for yourself.

[Siebrie]

My 62-year old colleague, working for my company as a freelance Accounting clerk/typist/processor/data entry/double-checker for the last 25 years, saw her contract terminated overnight.

We often had lunch together (brought from home), and our conversation often turned to her difficulties in paying-off her mortgage/social security contributions/etc. She and her partner had had a row of bad luck and bad financial choices, including not reading the market properly. For instance, her partner was offered to relocate to Belgium for work, which he accepted and they moved, a great adventure. However, within a year, the plant was closed. They had sold their house in the UK, and within two years, the buyers had sold it on for three times the buying price.

They stayed in Belgium, bought an apartment with a flexible interest rate, which was supposed to follow the market rate. However, it only went up (of course...): 5% after the first year, and another 5% after the second year. At a time where everyone has 2 or 3% mortgage rates, they have 14%! I told her to talk to the bank, and to take their mortgage elsewhere, but because they are both self-employed, making only little money, it is difficult to get a mortgage anywhere, and the bank won't budge.

They still have a few family members and friends in the UK, and like to visit twice a year. Eurostar (train) costs around €200 return, and they enjoy taking it. However, taking the ferry (boat) costs only €100-€150 return. There is not much of a travel time difference.

With the limited funds they have, my colleague collects hat pins, her partner collects horror movies and horror fiction, together they collect choral sheet music (they used to sing in two choirs). They always buy, and never sell. I have suggested libraries, selling, secondhand sites, etc, but they buy to keep. And then buy the cupboards to keep the sheet music, and additional insurance because it's both valuable and a fire hazard..... If the newspaper article I saw last week is anything to go by, actual sheet music is destined to lose its value shortly, with orchestras moving to tablets.

She is 62, her partner about 55; she planned to work another few years until the mortgage was paid off. With Brexit looming, it is very unclear what (and if) the pensions will pay out. She has a British pension from the years she worked over there, she has a tiny Belgian pension from when she was employed, and a Belgian self-employed pension. She has not yet checked the conditions under which these will be paid out, nor has she checked under which conditions the State Pensions of the two countries will pay out. She is trusting the UK government to do what they should do, the decent thing.

It's both frustrating and fascinating. She is a very sweet person, and I feel very sorry for her.

[Liberty Stache]

A guy at work just said he has spend $2500 on alcohol in the last 3 weeks. There was no special occasion in this period, just going out with mates

Vegas? Haha

no just in Perth, Australia.

Just wow...Depending on the cost of drinks (in HCOL USA anywhere from $7.50 to $20/drink) that's like 40-110 drinks / week or 6-16 drinks a day!! I think your CW might have a dependency problem....

[Imma]

My 62-year old colleague, working for my company as a freelance Accounting clerk/typist/processor/data entry/double-checker for the last 25 years, saw her contract terminated overnight.

We often had lunch together (brought from home), and our conversation often turned to her difficulties in paying-off her mortgage/social security contributions/etc. She and her partner had had a row of bad luck and bad financial choices, including not reading the market properly. For instance, her partner was offered to relocate to Belgium for work, which he accepted and they moved, a great adventure. However, within a year, the plant was closed. They had sold their house in the UK, and within two years, the buyers had sold it on for three times the buying price.

They stayed in Belgium, bought an apartment with a flexible interest rate, which was supposed to follow the market rate. However, it only went up (of course...): 5% after the first year, and another 5% after the second year. At a time where everyone has 2 or 3% mortgage rates, they have 14%! I told her to talk to the bank, and to take their mortgage elsewhere, but because they are both self-employed, making only little money, it is difficult to get a mortgage anywhere, and the bank won't budge.

They still have a few family members and friends in the UK, and like to visit twice a year. Eurostar (train) costs around €200 return, and they enjoy taking it. However, taking the ferry (boat) costs only €100-€150 return. There is not much of a travel time difference.

With the limited funds they have, my colleague collects hat pins, her partner collects horror movies and horror fiction, together they collect choral sheet music (they used to sing in two choirs). They always buy, and never sell. I have suggested libraries, selling, secondhand sites, etc, but they buy to keep. And then buy the cupboards to keep the sheet music, and additional insurance because it's both valuable and a fire hazard..... If the newspaper article I saw last week is anything to go by, actual sheet music is destined to lose its value shortly, with orchestras moving to tablets.

She is 62, her partner about 55; she planned to work another few years until the mortgage was paid off. With Brexit looming, it is very unclear what (and if) the pensions will pay out. She has a British pension from the years she worked over there, she has a tiny Belgian pension from when she was employed, and a Belgian self-employed pension. She has not yet checked the conditions under which these will be paid out, nor has she checked under which conditions the State Pensions of the two countries will pay out. She is trusting the UK government to do what they should do, the decent thing.

It's both frustrating and fascinating. She is a very sweet person, and I feel very sorry for her.

It's always so sad to see nice people make so many small errors of judgement that they end up in big trouble, and they probably don't even know where they went wrong.

I would suggest to your coworker to find out if it's even legal to pay 14% interest. I'm in NL and almost can't imagine it would be legal in here.

[myrrh]

NOOOoooooo!!! You will take my paper music away from my cold dead hands. How can you mark up music on a tablet? How can you even see the notes with a tablet on a stand? How can you fit three pages of music on one stand so that you can play half the song without turning the page? Or does each person get three or four tablets? :P

Um. Back to the original subject. Coworker is planning on retiring this year. He's 70 and has been taking social security and will get a pension, but he bought a new car last winter and his wife bought a new car last summer.  His wife is 10 years younger and he elected to have her get 1/2 his pension once he passes. He says they'll be paying the mortgage until he's 90. It's not really my business but I wonder how it will work out.

[Dollar Slice]

NOOOoooooo!!! You will take my paper music away from my cold dead hands. How can you mark up music on a tablet? How can you even see the notes with a tablet on a stand? How can you fit three pages of music on one stand so that you can play half the song without turning the page?

I see a lot of younger classical string players using them. (And one notable composer who will sit in the wings and follow along on his tablet to make sure no one fucks up his music.) They use a Bluetooth foot-operated thingy to turn the pages - tap your toe, the page turns. Works better for some instruments than others.

[joleran]

NOOOoooooo!!! You will take my paper music away from my cold dead hands. How can you mark up music on a tablet? How can you even see the notes with a tablet on a stand? How can you fit three pages of music on one stand so that you can play half the song without turning the page? Or does each person get three or four tablets? :P

Not only can you easily mark up the music in various ways, the tablet will automatically recognize what you are playing and flip the pages for you.

[Warlord1986]

The office admin assistant just told us that her daughter will pay $12,000 for one semester at Georgetown for their nurse practitioner program (I think). I know it's Georgetown, but oi.

The admin has admitted she will never retire and has nothing saved.

[Chris22]

The office admin assistant just told us that her daughter will pay $12,000 for one semester at Georgetown for their nurse practitioner program (I think). I know it's Georgetown, but oi.

That seems low by half.  Must be a substantial aid package. 

[Dave1442397]

Coworker is planning on retiring this year. He's 70 and has been taking social security and will get a pension, but he bought a new car last winter and his wife bought a new car last summer.  His wife is 10 years younger and he elected to have her get 1/2 his pension once he passes. He says they'll be paying the mortgage until he's 90. It's not really my business but I wonder how it will work out.

Sounds like it may work out pretty well for her. Not so much for him.

[rockstache]

The office admin assistant just told us that her daughter will pay $12,000 for one semester at Georgetown for their nurse practitioner program (I think). I know it's Georgetown, but oi.

That seems low by half.  Must be a substantial aid package.

I was kind of thinking that too. Undergrad tuition at my husbands big name (but not Georgetown big), school is $55,000 per year. Does not include housing, meals, or fees.

[Warlord1986]

She's only taking 2 classes, and that does not include books, housing, etc.

[artemidorus]

My co-worker asks if I have Amazon Prime, leading to a conversation about how he just signed up because he wanted an Amazon credit card.

"Now they give you 5% off at Whole Foods if you use an Amazon Prime credit card. We spend about $25,000 a year at Whole Foods, so it'll save us over $1,000."

It's just him and his wife. No kids. Spending over $2,000 a month on groceries.

But hey, good on him trying to save 5%. Baby steps.

[marcela]

My co-worker asks if I have Amazon Prime, leading to a conversation about how he just signed up because he wanted an Amazon credit card.

"Now they give you 5% off at Whole Foods if you use an Amazon Prime credit card. We spend about $25,000 a year at Whole Foods, so it'll save us over $1,000."

It's just him and his wife. No kids. Spending over $2,000 a month on groceries.

But hey, good on him trying to save 5%. Baby steps.

Holy crap. Here I was getting cranky at my husband because we're over budget on groceries this month, but we're sitting at $357. How do you even spend that month on groceries?!

[artemidorus]

My co-worker asks if I have Amazon Prime, leading to a conversation about how he just signed up because he wanted an Amazon credit card.

"Now they give you 5% off at Whole Foods if you use an Amazon Prime credit card. We spend about $25,000 a year at Whole Foods, so it'll save us over $1,000."

It's just him and his wife. No kids. Spending over $2,000 a month on groceries.

But hey, good on him trying to save 5%. Baby steps.

Holy crap. Here I was getting cranky at my husband because we're over budget on groceries this month, but we're sitting at $357. How do you even spend that month on groceries?!

I know they're both vegan and only eat organic food, which is how they likely justify it to themselves. I won't pretend to know exactly how much that raises your grocery bill, but I am sure others with those dietary restrictions can weigh in that it's still outlandish, as my Google Machine tells me a family of 2 with really expensive tastes should still only bring you to around $9K a year in groceries.

I have many stories about terrible spending decisions these people make, so I know they don't budget at all and make many wasteful decisions, and half this food probably goes in the trash. It's the same old story with them, this was just the quote that finally broke me and made me create an account after years of reading.

[Dollar Slice]

My co-worker asks if I have Amazon Prime, leading to a conversation about how he just signed up because he wanted an Amazon credit card.

"Now they give you 5% off at Whole Foods if you use an Amazon Prime credit card. We spend about $25,000 a year at Whole Foods, so it'll save us over $1,000."

It's just him and his wife. No kids. Spending over $2,000 a month on groceries.

But hey, good on him trying to save 5%. Baby steps.

Holy crap. Here I was getting cranky at my husband because we're over budget on groceries this month, but we're sitting at $357. How do you even spend that month on groceries?!

I know they're both vegan and only eat organic food, which is how they likely justify it to themselves. I won't pretend to know exactly how much that raises your grocery bill, but I am sure others with those dietary restrictions can weigh in that it's still outlandish

Oof. My first thought was that they were eating high-end steaks a couple of times a week (Whole Foods sells some that are $20+ a pound) but if they are vegan, I bet they are spending a ton on meat and dairy substitutes - there are some really expensive brands. Do they drink? Throw in a bottle of wine for dinner every day and that could easily be $500/mo. or more.

[artemidorus]

My co-worker asks if I have Amazon Prime, leading to a conversation about how he just signed up because he wanted an Amazon credit card.

"Now they give you 5% off at Whole Foods if you use an Amazon Prime credit card. We spend about $25,000 a year at Whole Foods, so it'll save us over $1,000."

It's just him and his wife. No kids. Spending over $2,000 a month on groceries.

But hey, good on him trying to save 5%. Baby steps.

Holy crap. Here I was getting cranky at my husband because we're over budget on groceries this month, but we're sitting at $357. How do you even spend that month on groceries?!

I know they're both vegan and only eat organic food, which is how they likely justify it to themselves. I won't pretend to know exactly how much that raises your grocery bill, but I am sure others with those dietary restrictions can weigh in that it's still outlandish

Oof. My first thought was that they were eating high-end steaks a couple of times a week (Whole Foods sells some that are $20+ a pound) but if they are vegan, I bet they are spending a ton on meat and dairy substitutes - there are some really expensive brands. Do they drink? Throw in a bottle of wine for dinner every day and that could easily be $500/mo. or more.

My co-worker isn't a drinker. So if it is a bill that's largely alcohol, the wife is doing it on her own. Seems like a stretch, but it's possibly a contributing factor.

And I've ruled out the "really bad at math" explanation. He's very good at math in our job (even if he can't budget), and even rounding up drastically, wouldn't be off by $10,000 on an estimate of his grocery bills.

He has an encyclopedic memory of every Whole Foods in a 100 mile radius - he discusses the pro's and con's of each with anyone he overhears mention the chain, so it's not like he just goes to the one that is closest to him. I honestly think his hobby is wasting money at Whole Foods, buying everything he could possibly try like it's a new toy, and tossing it half of what they buy when it goes bad.

[FIRE@50]

I was at an HOA meeting last night and guy A mentions that guy B won't be around anymore because he is retiring. Guy B says, 'well I'm not really retiring but I realized that now that I'm in my 70's, I should cut back to part-time.' I don't know anything about his finances, but I just kind of felt bad for him. Other people in the room were congratulating him. I'm hoping that he just really loves working.

[Dragonswan]

My co-worker asks if I have Amazon Prime, leading to a conversation about how he just signed up because he wanted an Amazon credit card.

"Now they give you 5% off at Whole Foods if you use an Amazon Prime credit card. We spend about $25,000 a year at Whole Foods, so it'll save us over $1,000."

It's just him and his wife. No kids. Spending over $2,000 a month on groceries.

But hey, good on him trying to save 5%. Baby steps.

Holy crap. Here I was getting cranky at my husband because we're over budget on groceries this month, but we're sitting at $357. How do you even spend that month on groceries?!

I know they're both vegan and only eat organic food, which is how they likely justify it to themselves. I won't pretend to know exactly how much that raises your grocery bill, but I am sure others with those dietary restrictions can weigh in that it's still outlandish

Oof. My first thought was that they were eating high-end steaks a couple of times a week (Whole Foods sells some that are $20+ a pound) but if they are vegan, I bet they are spending a ton on meat and dairy substitutes - there are some really expensive brands. Do they drink? Throw in a bottle of wine for dinner every day and that could easily be $500/mo. or more.

My co-worker isn't a drinker. So if it is a bill that's largely alcohol, the wife is doing it on her own. Seems like a stretch, but it's possibly a contributing factor.

And I've ruled out the "really bad at math" explanation. He's very good at math in our job (even if he can't budget), and even rounding up drastically, wouldn't be off by $10,000 on an estimate of his grocery bills.

He has an encyclopedic memory of every Whole Foods in a 100 mile radius - he discusses the pro's and con's of each with anyone he overhears mention the chain, so it's not like he just goes to the one that is closest to him. I honestly think his hobby is wasting money at Whole Foods, buying everything he could possibly try like it's a new toy, and tossing it half of what they buy when it goes bad.

Wow! you'll know I tend towards spendy and make allowances for some un mustachian things.  But this is inexcusable.  Even in Whole Paycheck you have to work at spending that kind of money.  And Vegan?  Does he buy truffles?  Really pricey imported cheese?  Dine at one of their cafes twice a week?  Then maybe that gets you to 1K/person/month.  Still insane and I'm not pardoning his crime against his financials.

[Dragonswan]

Yep I've figured it out.  He's addicted to Pule cheese: made from the milk of Balkan donkeys from Serbia.  About $600/lb.

[FIRE@50]

Yep I've figured it out.  He's addicted to Pule cheese: made from the milk of Balkan donkeys from Serbia.  About $600/lb.

I know you were just making a joke, but cheese obviously isn't vegan.

I think you might be onto something with the prepared foods though. If you bought lunch and dinner from there on a regular basis, your bill would be pretty shocking.

[Dragonswan]

Yes I was joking.  I was going to use black truffles at $700 a pound, but cheese made from exotic donkeys was way funnier.

[Hula Hoop]

Yes I was joking.  I was going to use black truffles at $700 a pound, but cheese made from exotic donkeys was way funnier.

Made me laugh.  Seriously, though, how on earth does this guy spend that much at Whole Foods? 

[Freedomin5]

Coworker’s baby is turning one. They are spending $300 on an 8-inch cake. And holding the party at a restaurant. I doubt the baby will remember any of it.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Coworker’s baby is turning one. They are spending $300 on an 8-inch cake. And holding the party at a restaurant. I doubt the baby will remember any of it.

If a person were to spend $300 on 8 inches of anything I'd generally expect Heidi Fleiss to be involved. What's in or on the cake that makes it so special? Unicorn sparkle?

[Chris22]

Coworker’s baby is turning one. They are spending $300 on an 8-inch cake. And holding the party at a restaurant. I doubt the baby will remember any of it.

You realize the party is not for the baby, it's for friends and family to come celebrate the baby, right?

Not saying $300 for the cake makes sense, but...

[o2bfree]

Coworker’s baby is turning one. They are spending $300 on an 8-inch cake. And holding the party at a restaurant. I doubt the baby will remember any of it.

Such spending seems primitive to me, a sacrifice made in fear with the hopes of pleasing the gods. Sacrifice enough, then you'll have perfection and be blessed in all areas of your life. It's like a belief in magic.

[RyanAtTanagra]

You realize the party is not for the baby, it's for friends and family to come celebrate the baby, right?

You realize you sound like a jerk when you use this phrase, right?

[MgoSam]

You realize the party is not for the baby, it's for friends and family to come celebrate the baby, right?

You realize you sound like a jerk when you use this phrase, right?

I'm guessing that Chriss22

a. Doesn't care
b. Would respond by saying, "Did I state anything incorrect"


My sister rented a ballroom, had catered food, and an open bar with top shelf liquor for one of her daughter's first birthday parties. My parents, brother, and many cousins on both sides of the family flew in as did I for the complete shitshow.

It was clearly done for the benefit of my sister and her husband as it isn't like my one year old niece or her 4 year old brother will remember any of this.

Hell when I was one my cousin ceremoniously shaved my head. Somehow that memory wasn't seared into my head.

[CupcakeGuru]

Coworker’s baby is turning one. They are spending $300 on an 8-inch cake. And holding the party at a restaurant. I doubt the baby will remember any of it.

You realize the party is not for the baby, it's for friends and family to come celebrate the baby, right?

Not saying $300 for the cake makes sense, but...

It's not for the baby, its for the Facebook and Instagram photos!

[JoJo]

Coworker’s baby is turning one. They are spending $300 on an 8-inch cake. And holding the party at a restaurant. I doubt the baby will remember any of it.

This takes the cake!

[dragoncar]

Coworker’s baby is turning one. They are spending $300 on an 8-inch cake. And holding the party at a restaurant. I doubt the baby will remember any of it.

This is terrible.  Absolutely ridiculous.  But if one wanted to sample this disgusting waste of cash, which restaurant, specifically, would one need to sneak into?  And which day?

[Just Joe]

Coworker’s baby is turning one. They are spending $300 on an 8-inch cake. And holding the party at a restaurant. I doubt the baby will remember any of it.

If a person were to spend $300 on 8 inches of anything I'd generally expect Heidi Fleiss to be involved. What's in or on the cake that makes it so special? Unicorn sparkle?

Controlled substances...

[Frugalroogal]

This one is a bit sensitive as it involves IVF and sperm donation. A new coworker told me she had an almost 2 year old via IVF/sperm donation and became a single mother by choice. Good on her, I thought! She then told me how difficult it was to make ends meet after paying for several rounds of IVF and also childcare as a solo mother. So far I was pretty sympathetic. I then saw her buying coffees everyday and lunch most days as well as going to the nearby shopping centre to buy non-necessities. I am slightly less sympathetic at this point. I totally lost all sympathy when she told me that despite her new boyfriend’s objections (who didn’t want any more children as he is already a parent as well as playing a big role in her daughter’s life) she went ahead with more rounds of IVF with the same sperm donor and is now pregnant with child #2. She admitted to me that she has no idea how she is going to afford to go on maternity leave or put her two children in daycare when she goes back to work. Sorry if I seem overly judgmental about this but why go have another child (very deliberately, not an accident) when she is struggling to pay for necessities for her first?

[Roadrunner53]

This one is a bit sensitive as it involves IVF and sperm donation. A new coworker told me she had an almost 2 year old via IVF/sperm donation and became a single mother by choice. Good on her, I thought! She then told me how difficult it was to make ends meet after paying for several rounds of IVF and also childcare as a solo mother. So far I was pretty sympathetic. I then saw her buying coffees everyday and lunch most days as well as going to the nearby shopping centre to buy non-necessities. I am slightly less sympathetic at this point. I totally lost all sympathy when she told me that despite her new boyfriend’s objections (who didn’t want any more children as he is already a parent as well as playing a big role in her daughter’s life) she went ahead with more rounds of IVF with the same sperm donor and is now pregnant with child #2. She admitted to me that she has no idea how she is going to afford to go on maternity leave or put her two children in daycare when she goes back to work. Sorry if I seem overly judgmental about this but why go have another child (very deliberately, not an accident) when she is struggling to pay for necessities for her first?

Really DUMB! This is why we keep hearing that kids need to be fed breakfast and lunch at school. What is wrong with people who have children and then have no idea how they can afford to feed them? What if the schools had no food programs like when I was a kid? Would the kids starve to death? I don't want to see anyone starve but how do these parents think nothing of not feeding the kids? How much can a bag of beans, rice and an onion and tomato sauce cost?

[MrMoogle]

This one is a bit sensitive as it involves IVF and sperm donation. A new coworker told me she had an almost 2 year old via IVF/sperm donation and became a single mother by choice. Good on her, I thought! She then told me how difficult it was to make ends meet after paying for several rounds of IVF and also childcare as a solo mother. So far I was pretty sympathetic. I then saw her buying coffees everyday and lunch most days as well as going to the nearby shopping centre to buy non-necessities. I am slightly less sympathetic at this point. I totally lost all sympathy when she told me that despite her new boyfriend’s objections (who didn’t want any more children as he is already a parent as well as playing a big role in her daughter’s life) she went ahead with more rounds of IVF with the same sperm donor and is now pregnant with child #2. She admitted to me that she has no idea how she is going to afford to go on maternity leave or put her two children in daycare when she goes back to work. Sorry if I seem overly judgmental about this but why go have another child (very deliberately, not an accident) when she is struggling to pay for necessities for her first?

Really DUMB! This is why we keep hearing that kids need to be fed breakfast and lunch at school. What is wrong with people who have children and then have no idea how they can afford to feed them? What if the schools had no food programs like when I was a kid? Would the kids starve to death? I don't want to see anyone starve but how do these parents think nothing of not feeding the kids? How much can a bag of beans, rice and an onion and tomato sauce cost?

Generally, there's no good way to require people to be able to afford children before they have them.  And when I say "good" I mean morally and practically.  So it's fine that she has now idea how she can afford to feed them.  The problem here is that she has a way to afford to feed them, but instead she's choosing to spend it on IVF, do double the mouths and to remove the $$. 

It seems like a lot of people expect to have EVERYTHING.  I want my lattes and retirement, and I won't choose one over the other, it has to be both.

[FIRE@50]

How is she paying for the IVF? Credit cards?

[Roadrunner53]

Now there are programs that send the kids home with food for the weekends when they are not at school. I don't want kids to starve but why aren't the parents on food stamps or work or go to a food bank? Who's to say that the kid even eats the food. One of the bully family members may take the food away from the kid. I just don't get it that people have a boat load of kids and don't have food to feed them. Why don't they stop having babies for one thing if they can't afford to feed them. Food and shelter are must have's! I would work 3 rotten jobs before my kid or dogs starved. I would kick my spouse out the door and tell him to get three jobs too. My parents were poor for many years but we had food to eat. I do understand that some people are disabled and that throws a monkey wrench into the situation.

[Physicsteacher]

I teach at a school where every student gets free breakfast and lunch under the community eligibility provision of the federal free lunch program. In this small, high poverty, rural community, school is the nexus of social services. Students who attend the after school program, which lasts until 6 p.m. get free dinner as well. Quite a few students get snack packs for the weekends/breaks as well. Lunch is also available for much of the summer. Some of the families are victims of truly tragic circumstances and some of their own bad choices, but I am grateful that no child will starve due to circumstances beyond their control.

[Roadrunner53]

I teach at a school where every student gets free breakfast and lunch under the community eligibility provision of the federal free lunch program. In this small, high poverty, rural community, school is the nexus of social services. Students who attend the after school program, which lasts until 6 p.m. get free dinner as well. Quite a few students get snack packs for the weekends/breaks as well. Lunch is also available for much of the summer. Some of the families are victims of truly tragic circumstances and some of their own bad choices, but I am grateful that no child will starve due to circumstances beyond their control.

Why don't they start requiring the parents to get group therapy to resolve whatever problems they have so they can feed their children. What kind of parents can't provide meals and if they can't, they should be encouraged to be sterilized or use birth control. Offer free birth control. Offer job training. Whatever it takes to get these people on their feet to provide for their families.

[solon]

And we haven't even started on the crazy idea that VOLUNTARY single-parenthood is a good idea...

[FIRE@50]

I teach at a school where every student gets free breakfast and lunch under the community eligibility provision of the federal free lunch program. In this small, high poverty, rural community, school is the nexus of social services. Students who attend the after school program, which lasts until 6 p.m. get free dinner as well. Quite a few students get snack packs for the weekends/breaks as well. Lunch is also available for much of the summer. Some of the families are victims of truly tragic circumstances and some of their own bad choices, but I am grateful that no child will starve due to circumstances beyond their control.

Why don't they start requiring the parents to get group therapy to resolve whatever problems they have so they can feed their children. What kind of parents can't provide meals and if they can't, they should be encouraged to be sterilized or use birth control. Offer free birth control. Offer job training. Whatever it takes to get these people on their feet to provide for their families.

Sterilized? Take a deep breath. Have you considered that perhaps the children are only eating the free meals for a short period of time? Like the parents are just in between jobs or something? I'm all for taking personal responsibility but c'mon. I think you have some other plausible ideas.

On the other hand, I'd probably take a free vasectomy right now.

[Just Joe]

Some sort of voluntary permanent birth control with the gov't providing funding up front. Maybe it is a gimme or maybe it is a we'll take it out of your taxes spread out over a decade, so slow you won't notice the cost thing.

Anyhow - encourage people who don't want to raise kids and support their kids not to have kids.

I know it isn't that simple - religion, ethnic and gender topics, politics (aka Republicans) - blah, blah, blah.

Still personal responsibility and long term planning ought to be frequent discussion topics in America.

Put the politicians at the front of the line. ;)

[Roadrunner53]

I teach at a school where every student gets free breakfast and lunch under the community eligibility provision of the federal free lunch program. In this small, high poverty, rural community, school is the nexus of social services. Students who attend the after school program, which lasts until 6 p.m. get free dinner as well. Quite a few students get snack packs for the weekends/breaks as well. Lunch is also available for much of the summer. Some of the families are victims of truly tragic circumstances and some of their own bad choices, but I am grateful that no child will starve due to circumstances beyond their control.

Why don't they start requiring the parents to get group therapy to resolve whatever problems they have so they can feed their children. What kind of parents can't provide meals and if they can't, they should be encouraged to be sterilized or use birth control. Offer free birth control. Offer job training. Whatever it takes to get these people on their feet to provide for their families.

Sterilized? Take a deep breath. Have you considered that perhaps the children are only eating the free meals for a short period of time? Like the parents are just in between jobs or something? I'm all for taking personal responsibility but c'mon. I think you have some other plausible ideas.

On the other hand, I'd probably take a free vasectomy right now.

Fire@50 I am not saying to yank people off the street and sterilize them. I am saying offer this choice or birth control. If they can't afford to feed the kids they obviously cannot afford to buy birth control. I am not suggesting forcing them to get birth control or sterilization. Yes, they could be temporarily unemployed or any other bad things can happen. Some might  not want to get pregnant again and would embrace some help. My Grandma had 6 living children and 4 children that died in childhood. She was a farm wife and these people were like the grapes of wrath. I am sure if someone suggested birth control back in her day she might have said yes. My point is why bring more kids into this world if you cannot provide for them.