Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8057257 times)

iris lily

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2150 on: March 21, 2014, 09:01:53 AM »
That's always tough to explain. It's never "I don't have the cash", but "I don't want to spend my money on that" never comes across well.

I"ve learned that's the polite response to panhandlers, "I don't have it" rather than a "No" I won't give it to you.

But sometimes I don't feel like being polite. I wasn't to the female panhandler yesterday, hanging around the gas station.

MamaStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2151 on: March 21, 2014, 09:18:54 AM »
That's always tough to explain. It's never "I don't have the cash", but "I don't want to spend my money on that" never comes across well.

I"ve learned that's the polite response to panhandlers, "I don't have it" rather than a "No" I won't give it to you.

But sometimes I don't feel like being polite. I wasn't to the female panhandler yesterday, hanging around the gas station.

The worst is when all my friends at work have these "parties" where they expect you to show up and spend $50-$100 on purses, cookware, heated oil, spices, or (INSERT OTHER RANDOM-OVERPRICED-EXPENSIVE JUNK THAT I DON'T WANT HERE).

I go out of town a lot so I am usually able to justify "not being able to make it"  but last week one of my closer friends asked me if I was coming to her 31 Purse Party.  I just told her "I really don't like to go to these type of things, and I will never host one of these parties.   If I came, I would feel bad for not buying anything."

She then proceeded to answer all of my questions about the "host benefits" and things she gets from hosting the party.    If her party sells $600 worth of merch to her friends, she is allowed to choose from 3 different purses/organizers to buy at a 50% discount.   She gets less (or nothing) if her party doesn't make the $600 goal.



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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2152 on: March 21, 2014, 09:24:47 AM »
"I have to (and he did) get a bigger truck because mine can't reliably pull the camper we just upgraded to."

"I'm going to sell my Jeep to get an older Jeep that's stock so I can do lots of things to it."

"I paid $45 to upgrade the shipping to 2-day with guaranteed Saturday delivery for two new golf clubs."


warfreak2

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2153 on: March 21, 2014, 10:01:33 AM »
She then proceeded to answer all of my questions about the "host benefits" and things she gets from hosting the party.    If her party sells $600 worth of merch to her friends, she is allowed to choose from 3 different purses/organizers to buy at a 50% discount.   She gets less (or nothing) if her party doesn't make the $600 goal.
She may be your friend, but in this context she is not acting as a friend - she is acting as a salesperson, so tell her that and explain that you'll be her friend but not her customer.

These sorts of sales "parties" are often pyramid schemes, too - the companies sometimes encourage the salespeople to recruit their friends as salespeople, by offering incentives for doing so. It might be worth checking with her to make sure she isn't caught up in a scam.
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MamaStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2154 on: March 21, 2014, 10:18:12 AM »
She then proceeded to answer all of my questions about the "host benefits" and things she gets from hosting the party.    If her party sells $600 worth of merch to her friends, she is allowed to choose from 3 different purses/organizers to buy at a 50% discount.   She gets less (or nothing) if her party doesn't make the $600 goal.
She may be your friend, but in this context she is not acting as a friend - she is acting as a salesperson, so tell her that and explain that you'll be her friend but not her customer.

These sorts of sales "parties" are often pyramid schemes, too - the companies sometimes encourage the salespeople to recruit their friends as salespeople, by offering incentives for doing so. It might be worth checking with her to make sure she isn't caught up in a scam.

Warfreak,   it is a TOTAL SCAM....    but a very "sociable acceptible" scam at my workplace and among women across USA.  Not sure if other places have these?  (Not trying to be sexist here - all of these "parties" I have been invited too have only included females.)

warfreak2

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2155 on: March 21, 2014, 10:25:45 AM »
(Not trying to be sexist here - all of these "parties" I have been invited too have only included females.)
You don't get invited to the male ones, because you aren't a man. Generally a scam is targeted within a particular demographic, the target demographic for whatever product is the vehicle for the scam. One of the advantages of that is less awareness of them in the general population, leading to lower dissemination of information about them, enabling them to continue operating. You rarely hear about scams that target people who are different to you, that's a feature.
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Hunny156

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2156 on: March 21, 2014, 11:23:40 AM »
(Not trying to be sexist here - all of these "parties" I have been invited too have only included females.)
You don't get invited to the male ones, because you aren't a man. Generally a scam is targeted within a particular demographic, the target demographic for whatever product is the vehicle for the scam. One of the advantages of that is less awareness of them in the general population, leading to lower dissemination of information about them, enabling them to continue operating. You rarely hear about scams that target people who are different to you, that's a feature.

My subdivision is RAMPANT w/this crap.  Stella & Dot, 31, Origami Owl, Scentsy, Wine, Sex Toys, Nail Stickers, Avon, Pampered Chef - you name it, we've got several reps in the same 'hood competing.  Some of them get together and do one big party where you can get harassed by multiple sales people!

The usual "bribe" is free wine & cheese.  The hostess pays for this out of pocket, which is the ultimate scam.  Then her friend, the sales rep, gets all the sales, mostly out of guilt by the party attendees, and the hostess gets some sort of trinket for free.

We have a neighborhood FB page, so the mass invites come all the time.  The wife selling the nail stickers wouldn't even weed out the men, hubby got invited too!  I'm most amused by the incredibly religious, modest folks who didn't feel comfortable hanging out in the hot tub after the pool got too cold, yet they are the ones doing the sex toy party??

I still get invited, and I have never gone to one of these things.  I'm sure if I ever had the desire to pay for overpriced crap like this, I could score it on Ebay for far less.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2157 on: March 21, 2014, 12:36:49 PM »
I've seen a few guys selling things like Cutco knives who do the "let me practice me sales pitch on you" approach with their friends. And I've also seen guys fall into the "essential oils" MLMs.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2158 on: March 21, 2014, 12:43:44 PM »
Do you have an example of a male one?  I'm not trying to be a jerk - I just have never seen one, and I'm a man.
I don't know why that would be jerk-ish!

Penn & Teller's sometimes-good TV show Bullshit! did an episode on MLM[/quote]. I should clarify that not all of them organise "parties", but the pressure to sell to your friends is the same.
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ScienceSexSavings

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2159 on: March 21, 2014, 01:55:45 PM »
(Not trying to be sexist here - all of these "parties" I have been invited too have only included females.)
You don't get invited to the male ones, because you aren't a man. Generally a scam is targeted within a particular demographic, the target demographic for whatever product is the vehicle for the scam. One of the advantages of that is less awareness of them in the general population, leading to lower dissemination of information about them, enabling them to continue operating. You rarely hear about scams that target people who are different to you, that's a feature.
Do you have an example of a male one?  I'm not trying to be a jerk - I just have never seen one, and I'm a man.  My ex-wife got invited to those parties all the time, but I never got an invite to a single party where my male friends tried to sell me something.  I have a hard time picturing it ever happening, to be honest.  I mean, how would the invite even go?  "Come on guys, let's sit around and drink wine while Bob demonstrates his company's new silver-plated power tools."

I knew a guy selling some sort of herbal cream type of shit that was supposed to make your skin look amazing.

I also know several woman involved with Victorian Epicure and Park Lane Jewels. I HATE THEM!
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huadpe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2160 on: March 21, 2014, 02:05:55 PM »
Do you have an example of a male one?  I'm not trying to be a jerk - I just have never seen one, and I'm a man.  My ex-wife got invited to those parties all the time, but I never got an invite to a single party where my male friends tried to sell me something.  I have a hard time picturing it ever happening, to be honest.  I mean, how would the invite even go?  "Come on guys, let's sit around and drink wine while Bob demonstrates his company's new silver-plated power tools."

It's less gender specific, but I think there are a number of MLM things regarding investments that tend to target males.  E.g. I once got pitched by a friend of a friend at Starbucks for a few minutes about silver coin investment.  Also things like Primerica.

Half-Borg

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2161 on: March 21, 2014, 02:36:25 PM »
My uncle tried to sell me some Live-Meeting Tool, meet clients online, do teamwork, boost your career etc. pp. They had online "parties" where they sold their shit. I had some fun sabotaging them and got banned xD

Albert

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2162 on: March 21, 2014, 03:26:45 PM »
Learn something new every day… I haven't heard about such "sales parties" before opening this thread 5 min ago.

crumbcatcher

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2163 on: March 21, 2014, 03:30:40 PM »
I knew a guy selling some sort of herbal cream type of shit that was supposed to make your skin look amazing.

When I was paying for a mattress at a discount store (which turned out to be an awesome deal), the owner gave me a pitch on some kind of blueberry-superfood-something-something liquid vitamin supplement stuff that he was selling. It reminded me of the Herbalife pitch I've gotten from a lot of people who were into that. The mattress guy pointed out how much it had helped his Reynaud's symptoms (even though his fingers were still blue and stiff) and other health issues he has.

Strange.

The mattress rocks though.
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fantabulous

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2164 on: March 21, 2014, 04:13:22 PM »
When I was paying for a mattress at a discount store (which turned out to be an awesome deal), the owner gave me a pitch on some kind of blueberry-superfood-something-something liquid vitamin supplement stuff that he was selling. It reminded me of the Herbalife pitch I've gotten from a lot of people who were into that. The mattress guy pointed out how much it had helped his Reynaud's symptoms (even though his fingers were still blue and stiff) and other health issues he has.

Strange.

The mattress rocks though.

Maybe the blueberry-super-slurry(TM) did help, but his fingers are still blue due to previously trying colloidal silver cream or something?

ScienceSexSavings

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2165 on: March 21, 2014, 04:36:37 PM »
I knew a guy selling some sort of herbal cream type of shit that was supposed to make your skin look amazing.

When I was paying for a mattress at a discount store (which turned out to be an awesome deal), the owner gave me a pitch on some kind of blueberry-superfood-something-something liquid vitamin supplement stuff that he was selling. It reminded me of the Herbalife pitch I've gotten from a lot of people who were into that. The mattress guy pointed out how much it had helped his Reynaud's symptoms (even though his fingers were still blue and stiff) and other health issues he has.

Strange.

The mattress rocks though.

Ahhhhh, I'm pretty sure it was Herbalife! The guy claimed he ahd put it on one side of his face onle and could totally see the difference. He was only about 24 and had no major skin issues, so I'm not sure what difference one would even see.

Park Lane still pisses me off more though, with their tacky ass jewelery, trips, cars and designer shit. I can see that people are involved with them, I can't actually see the skin crap when they're not talking about it.
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Dr.Vibrissae

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2166 on: March 21, 2014, 07:17:31 PM »
I've heard of Man-Cave ones. They tend to be grill and beer parties I think
Oh, I totally have thrown one of these.  The cost of admission is a 6-pack or a side dish, we call them "Barbeques".

The guy that installed our roof tried to sell us some energy drink/workout supplement stuff, he even had a card.  I don't know that they have parties, but the same company set up a table in the Rec Center once, and both men and women were selling.  I think it's the same sort of deal because they all mentioned that 'You could become a seller too!'
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Malaysia41

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2167 on: March 22, 2014, 12:33:47 AM »
recent conversation over OCS at work:
co-worker: "I'm taking the family on a 10 day REI vacation to Australia."
me: "REI?  You mean the store?"
co-worker: "Yeah - this'll be our third with them.  It costs a bundle but I don't have to plan a thing."

I googled it: http://www.rei.com/adventures/trips/pacific/australia-ultimate-adventure.html
That 12 day vacay costs $25k for a family of four.   
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Twenty4Me

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2168 on: March 22, 2014, 01:57:09 AM »
Ahhhhh, I'm pretty sure it was Herbalife!
Nope, sorry. Nothing like that in our range.

For me, personally, this is a little something that I do on the side for some extra spending money. I don't do parties, don't advertise, and rely solely on word of mouth. Am I making a killing? No, but that's not the point either... at least not for me :)

Anyways, just to clear up a little bit of the terminology that's emerged from this thread so far... a pyramid scheme is a multi-level thing that does NOT have a product. In other words, you pay to buy into your spot on the pyramid, and then recruit others to buy their spot as well. From each person who buys in, the money gets pass along up the pyramid with each person taking their cut of it along the way. The person who bought in does not see anything for their money until they start recruiting others in.

Above board multi-level marketing does not solely rely on you recruiting in others. There is a product that you can use yourself and sell to others. You can make pretty decent money just on that alone. And, while someone may not like a product that's on offer, I don't think that you need to call it a scam just because of that. If you don't shop at the local fragrance oil shop, would you call that store a scam? Or does the fact that it's a brick & mortar place somehow mean it's "better"?

Anyways, I don't know about other mlm companies out there, but I'm completely satisfied that Herbalife is above board as not just any company can be listed on the NYSE.

:) But that's just my opinion.

Bigote

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2169 on: March 22, 2014, 06:13:49 AM »
First post to defend Heballfe?      Do I detect a schill?     


Oh, I think you're wrong that selling product means it can't be a pyramid scheme.   If most sales of product go to new recruits for 'inventory' rather than customers for end use, it's a pyramid scheme, in my view. 

And most of the ones mentioned in this thread are just that, I suspect.   
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 06:25:44 AM by Bigote »

warfreak2

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2170 on: March 22, 2014, 06:57:40 AM »
Above board multi-level marketing does not solely rely on you recruiting in others.
Sorry, there is no such thing, and it does solely rely on you recruiting others. The ~90% of people who don't recruit anyone, make losses or just barely break even.

Quote
you pay to buy into your spot on the pyramid
Indeed you do, you pay up to $2000 for a "Herbalife business pack". Hint: if it is a legitimate job, why does anyone have to pay for the privilege of being employed? McDonalds don't require you to buy up to $2000 worth of burgers before you can stand at the counter and sell them to customers.
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Twenty4Me

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2171 on: March 22, 2014, 07:33:33 AM »
Up to $2'000 for a business pack? Not that I've ever seen. The ones that I've seen range from $60 to $93.

If you want to be over eager and buy a whole lot of inventory in the beginning instead of taking it slow and buying as you need it, then I can understand why people may believe that they've lost money on their Herbalife business. And while there are distributors who encourage this, this is not the only way to do a Herbalife business. Calling the whole rotten because of a few isn't particularly fair to those who make the effort to conduct their business differently.

You're not paying to be employed or to have a job, you're paying to start your own business under the Herbalife name. If you open a franchise restaurant, don't you buy a license to be able to use that name? Olive Garden or McD's or whatever. Same concept here.

Edit: Oh, and no... I'm not a shill. I haven't hidden the fact that I am a distributor and I have absolutely no interest in trying to entice anyone here into buying or signing up.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 07:40:05 AM by Twenty4Me »

warfreak2

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2172 on: March 22, 2014, 07:52:37 AM »
First Google result that lists the prices says $140 to $2,040.

Franchises are totally not the same thing because franchisees don't make their money by recruiting other franchisees.
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Twenty4Me

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2173 on: March 22, 2014, 08:06:34 AM »
That website belongs to an independent distributor in Australia, and I can assure you they are selling stock with that $2'000 "business pack". You can buy a business pack without all that extra stock above what already comes in the original packs which I quoted above.

Edit: So, I've just gone and pretended on the Herbalife website that I want to buy a business pack. I even chose the full "expensive" option (and not the mini business pack) just so that you can see what I mean. I put in that I would be collecting it from the warehouse in Illinois because I don't have an address in the USA to send it to. I stand corrected in my pricing... It works out to $105 and change instead due to handling and stuff. Still not $2'000 though. I don't know how tax might affect the price from state to state, but I can assure you it won't be by a whole lot.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 08:42:27 AM by Twenty4Me »

Squirrel away

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2174 on: March 22, 2014, 08:45:28 AM »
Someone I used to work with moved jobs and instead of moving her pension along with her took the money out to go away on holiday. She was quite young though.


Bigote

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2175 on: March 22, 2014, 09:04:15 AM »
Edit: Oh, and no... I'm not a shill. I haven't hidden the fact that I am a distributor and I have absolutely no interest in trying to entice anyone here into buying or signing up.

None of which precludes you from being a shill.


Now 3 posts, all shilling.     I wish Ackman all success, by the way.     
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 09:08:41 AM by Bigote »

Twenty4Me

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2176 on: March 22, 2014, 09:18:22 AM »
Now 3 posts, all shilling.     I wish Ackman all success, by the way.     
No idea who Ackman is, so that comment is lost on me.

So, I joined this message board a month ago just waiting for an opportunity to make these posts? Riiiiight. No, but nice try though. I commented because this is something that I can speak about knowledgeably. I'm an otherwise quiet sort of person who tends to lurk more than comment on any message board I frequent *shrugs*

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2177 on: March 22, 2014, 10:23:11 AM »
Welcome to forum Twenty4Me. I hope you are enjoying it thus far and stick around despite the confrontation you are currently engaged in on this thread.

It sounds like you aren't really pushing your product much here, or elsewhere for that matter, so that's commendable and this isn't necessarily directed at you but at these "companies".

All that said though, I have a general disdain for every multi-level marketing company. If you have a good product put it in a store and let people buy it, or hell these days just start a website and let people purchase from there. The idea that you should need a "pyramid" (not trying to suggest a scheme, but the setup is pyramid like) of sales people to sell (push) the product to everyone they know is ridiculous. It creates uncomfortable situations whereby "friends" or family members attempt to provide someone with something they don't need or want. If they wanted it, they would seek it out like they do everything else.

I don't want my friends/family selling me candles, cookware, bracelets, makeup, juice+, handbags, knives, vacuum cleaners, supplements, etc.

I've said no to every single offer to attend a party. I've unfortunately had many, many family members waste a ton of money with various efforts to "start a business" by becoming a distributor of many of these companies. My parents have wasted money 4-5 times buying the introductory business packs or products. They have been duped into thinking this is how they are going to finally "hit it big" and be able to retire.

I've had to sit through 2 separate sales pitches from my parents for different products because I struggled to say no (they did give me life after all, so I owe them something right**) even though I told them I would never buy the product. One of these sales pitches was for a $2,500 vacuum cleaner. Yes, that's right, $2,500. My parents were "sold" on the idea that if they purchase one it will be free if they can just sell 3 more to other people. Needless to say, they paid $2,500 for a damn vacuum because they are horrible sales people and couldn't dupe anyone else into this nightmare of a deal.

On the vacuum sales pitch they brought along with them the salesman they purchased from (who they met at church ##) to help close the deal. After telling the salesman that a $2,500 vacuum was not in our budget, he offered a monthly installment plan. That's right fellow mustachians, my parents are making monthly vacuum cleaner payments. It makes me sick to think about this, really.

If I want to buy something, I know where to find it.

** This one line could really sum my feelings up perfectly. These companies prey on the fact that it's very, very hard to say no to friends/family in certain situations, and this is how they make money.

## Another tactic I've noticed of these companies is they tend to prey on the vulnerable nature of a relationship with your church congregation.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2178 on: March 22, 2014, 10:27:47 AM »
My roommate's uncle got pretty screwed by some supplement MLM douchebaggery.  And my cousin was trying to sell Cutco knives for a bit years ago, but I think that one just fizzled.

They're slimy at best, unethical at worst.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2179 on: March 22, 2014, 12:03:30 PM »
Thanks for the welcome, Cheddar. Don't be concerned, I don't consider this discussion reason enough to let it affect my continued visits to the forum :)

Granted, the standard procedure for many MLM companies is to approach family and friends, but only because it's less daunting to speak to someone you know than cold calling. For me personally, I don't give a sales pitch to family and friends. Yes, I've told them about results that I've had on a product, and sometimes I give a free product to them to use for a specific need/challenge/situation that they may have mentioned before that they had. If they buy again after that product is finished, great! If not, then I don't push it. They may not want to buy it, but somewhere along the way they may meet someone who might be interested and they could refer that person to me. I do know, however, that not everyone is like that, and so I do understand the misgivings and "hostility" towards other distributors who do follow the "hard sell" way. (hard sell... not an accurate way to say it, but many would consider it to be that)

I'd be interested to know which vacumn cleaner it was that your parents were trying to sell. I ask only because I know of only 1 cleaner that was as expensive as that which an ex-boyfriend of mine had purchased. I thoroughly enjoyed using it. Would I ever buy it myself? *shrugs* It was a dream to work with when it was readily available to me and had a lifetime gaurantee on it, so I might consider it, but I'd definitely wouldn't buy one without a heck of a lot of consideration, and then after all that consideration, I probably still wouldn't buy it, even though I still think fondly of it now 15 years later, haha.

As for why these products aren't being put into a store instead of being sold this way? I can't speak for the other companies, but I know that with Herbalife it's all about the customer service. I want my customers to use the products correctly. I want them to know that when they're feeling like trash after the first couple of days that it's not a reason for them to stop using the product, but rather to push through just a few more days so that after that yucky detox period they will start to really feel the benefits of the product. I want to celebrate their successes with them, or help them to tweek the way that they using it so that they can find what works best for them.

Also, when Herbalife was started back in '81, all money that was made from this product (which wasn't earned by the distributors themselves) was used in research and quality improvements of the products. The founder didn't want to "waste" money on marketing and advertising which would have been necessary if they had placed the product in a store. I believe that these two reasons were the main reasons for Mark Hughes to choose this business model. At least, this is my understanding of it. It's only been recently, with our new CEO, that head office has started to do marketing, sponsoring of sports teams/events, and such like.

I apologise on behalf of MLM's to those of you who haven't had good past experiences with this business model before. Just please know that not every distributor out there is looking to force these products onto every single person they know/meet, even if we are passionate about the products we sell :) For some of us, it's not about the $$, but more about personal results, and I hope that if you do know someone who's interested in MLM, that you'll explain to them that they don't have to go "all in" just because their sponsor says that they should. Encourage them to take it slow and let the business grow naturally instead of trying to kick it off with a big bang.

Twenty4Me

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2180 on: March 22, 2014, 02:01:12 PM »
For me personally, I don't give a sales pitch to family and friends like what's been mentioned so far in this thread.

There, I've fixed it. My apologies, serpentstooth, for not being specific enough.

AlanStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2181 on: March 22, 2014, 04:01:22 PM »
Can we please stop feeding the trolls now?

Guy I work with has been a mac fan for a long time, and decided he wanted to see what else is out there besides the iphone and how is stacked up (GREAT-I love open mindedness!!!).  He dropped 350$ on a new unlocked droid and kept his latest iphone.  Not sure what cell plain he has on them but fairly sure it is not 20$/mon.  And I think he has kept the droid long enough for it to have lost a good chunk of resale value.  Hell maybe in a few months he will sell them both and get a high end droid.
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ThermionicScott

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2182 on: March 22, 2014, 06:21:16 PM »
Do you have an example of a male one?  I'm not trying to be a jerk - I just have never seen one, and I'm a man.  My ex-wife got invited to those parties all the time, but I never got an invite to a single party where my male friends tried to sell me something.  I have a hard time picturing it ever happening, to be honest.  I mean, how would the invite even go?  "Come on guys, let's sit around and drink wine while Bob demonstrates his company's new silver-plated power tools."

A (male) friend invited me to a Quixtar/Amway presentation about 5-6 years ago.  I went, but decided very early into it that I didn't want to supplement my income with "residuals" from roping other friends and family into the thing.  Lacking any shame, I snarfed one of the XS energy drinks afterward.

Sorry for continuing the tangent, back to "overheard at work"!  ;^)

fixer-upper

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2183 on: March 22, 2014, 07:09:00 PM »
What this tells me about corporate America... it's seen as a punishment to be given days off. I'm thinking I understand why suspending kids from schools doesn't work. They don't want to be there in the first place. You're not hurting them in any way, shape, or form.

I got caught skipping school, and my punishment was a day's suspension. 

johnintaiwan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2184 on: March 23, 2014, 06:15:24 AM »
sorry, but the MLM stuff is interesting. In Taiwan it is really popular. A lot of my wife's acquaintances are into it. If she meets someone who is interesting in buying she gives out their card and gets a commission from them. My wife is not involved at all with the companies (is not a vender, has never bought any product) but I think she is the only one making money on the whole thing.

Twenty4Me

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2185 on: March 23, 2014, 10:48:01 AM »
sorry, but the MLM stuff is interesting. In Taiwan it is really popular. A lot of my wife's acquaintances are into it. If she meets someone who is interesting in buying she gives out their card and gets a commission from them. My wife is not involved at all with the companies (is not a vender, has never bought any product) but I think she is the only one making money on the whole thing.
That's cool, John. How did she set up this arrangement with those distributors? Here, I've never heard of a cash thank you gift being given for a referral. I think it would actually work better than the usually suggested product thank you gift.

johnintaiwan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2186 on: March 23, 2014, 07:50:03 PM »
sorry, but the MLM stuff is interesting. In Taiwan it is really popular. A lot of my wife's acquaintances are into it. If she meets someone who is interesting in buying she gives out their card and gets a commission from them. My wife is not involved at all with the companies (is not a vender, has never bought any product) but I think she is the only one making money on the whole thing.
That's cool, John. How did she set up this arrangement with those distributors? Here, I've never heard of a cash thank you gift being given for a referral. I think it would actually work better than the usually suggested product thank you gift.

The business culture here is all about nepotism and who you know. So people are always working as business matchmakers, getting buyers and sellers connected. She never actively seeks to do this, but if someone mentions they are looking for some kind of supplement or gadget or is shopping around for insurance she will connect them to someone she knows. Its a good way to pick up 10-30 bucks here and there. I guess it is kind of like real life affiliate links.

Twenty4Me

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2187 on: March 24, 2014, 01:23:18 AM »
I guess it is kind of like real life affiliate links.
Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking as well. That's really great, John. Thanks for sharing :)

EDIT: John, I just did a quick check to see how much that would convert to in my local currency... Can you possibly give me a frame of reference here so that I can see how much it's worth in terms of your cost of living? I'm thinking perhaps the price of a can of coke would be a good indicator.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 01:34:04 AM by Twenty4Me »

johnintaiwan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2188 on: March 24, 2014, 07:14:49 AM »
I meant 10-30 USD, but it is about 300-1,000 taiwan dollars. A can of coke costs about 30 dollars here, rent on a 3 story house is about 9,000 a month

Twenty4Me

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2189 on: March 24, 2014, 08:53:36 AM »
LOL, thanks for clearing that up for me! I thought that TWD 10-30 was a bit on the low side. For a second there I was wondering why do it for that amount as it didn't really seem like it would be worth it really. But, TWD 300-1000 is definitely worth it for her! Nice one!!

Dezrah

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2190 on: March 24, 2014, 09:41:35 AM »

Gen Y Finance Journey

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2191 on: March 24, 2014, 09:58:38 AM »
## Another tactic I've noticed of these companies is they tend to prey on the vulnerable nature of a relationship with your church congregation.

I know two people who have tried to lure me into their MLM businesses. Both are extremely involved in their churches. Coincidence? Maybe. But I think you're on to something.

Hunny156

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2192 on: March 24, 2014, 12:44:38 PM »
## Another tactic I've noticed of these companies is they tend to prey on the vulnerable nature of a relationship with your church congregation.

I know two people who have tried to lure me into their MLM businesses. Both are extremely involved in their churches. Coincidence? Maybe. But I think you're on to something.

Aren't many MLM's headquarted in Mormon country?  I know I read an impressive thread on Fatwallet a few years back about it.  Scary how many shills created accounts on that thread to debunk the basic tenets of MLM.

Since I'm thread-crapping, I'll leave you w/a funny.  Hubby n I were working on an investment property in the wee hours of the night.  Exhausted & hungry, we stopped at a diner before heading back home to crash.  The place was mobbed at 2 AM!  We quickly realized that it was some sort of MLM meeting (lots of clapping as people would go around the very large diner), and guessed Amway.  The booth next to us was a bunch of drunk college kids, and one of them overheard my husband refer to it as Scamway.  That was all he needed.  He kept jumping up, clapping and screaming "SCAMWAY, YAY!!", which really pissed off the attendees.  A minute later, some guy in a suit w/an Amway name tag walked by, in search of a manager to shut up the drunk guy.  He got an overworked waitress, who half-pleaded w/the drunk guy to stop.  He eventually quieted down, but kept muttering Scamway under his breath, and we were beyond tired, so we were crying w/laughter every time we heard it.  As we left, we waved to the drunk guy and told him thanks for the laughs!  That incited another round of "Scamway Yay!" from him, as we rolled out the door, laughing our @sses off.  Real professional, having a meeting at a diner off the highway at 2 AM!

Twenty4Me

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2193 on: March 24, 2014, 01:59:17 PM »
For those who we wondering who Ackman was, he made this:

http://factsaboutherbalife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Who-wants-to-be-a-Millionaire.pdf

Now, now, Dezrah. If you're going to link Ackman's work, you may as well link to all of it... http://factsaboutherbalife.com/

There's tons of info there for people to take a look through, lol. I found it myself after the previous comment got me curious. Of course, I have my opinions about the man for the short time now that I've known about his little $1 billion bet :) Anyways, he's not worth anymore of my time than this right here.

Cpa Cat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2194 on: March 24, 2014, 03:06:42 PM »
There's a difference between a scam and a bad deal.

For example, 12 years ago, my husband and I had more money than sense, and we got roped into buying this air purifier that doubles as a vacuum cleaner. All I remember is that the guy said, "German Engineering" a lot and my husband was sold. But guess what - in the end we got an air purifier that doubles as a vacuum (actually, twelve years later, it works better and has outlasted the Dyson I bought - so I'm not sure which one was a bigger "scam"). Did we pay too much? Sure. But we didn't get scammed.

I bought a couple of overpriced purses from a Purse-selling party. Did I get scammed? Nope. The purses came in the mail, as ordered, and even withstood a lot of wear. Did I make a bad deal? Sure - I get better purses from Etsy these days.

Heck - I once went to one of those sex toy parties... Best party I've ever been to. Never regretted what I bought.

There's a difference between paying too much for something you don't need and being scammed.

I think, ultimately, being a seller of these products can become alienating for your friends and family. And for the amount of time, work and effort that some people put into selling just so they can get free stuff, they could just get a job and buy the stuff. You can't tell me that my friend got "scammed" into thinking that selling a glorified version of press-on nails was a way to get rich. But I did have to unfriend her on Facebook - because wtf, how many times do I have to decline invitations for that?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 03:38:19 PM by Cpa Cat »

warfreak2

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2195 on: March 24, 2014, 03:34:02 PM »
I think there's a finer line between pressure-selling and scamming than you're letting on - when you use people's friends to get them to pay more for things than they otherwise would, for example. But mainly it's a scam because it victimises the sales reps - they are sold "starter kits" for hundreds of dollars, and have to pay big commissions to the people further up the chain - based on the lie that they can make a big business and earn a lot of money from recruiting more people further down the chain.
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Cpa Cat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2196 on: March 24, 2014, 03:43:36 PM »
I guess we just see it differently. I think you're downplaying a normal person's accountability for making their own bad decisions.

The company "Jamberry" didn't spam me into oblivion on Facebook. My friend did that of her own accord.

Cutco didn't try to pressure me into buying knives - my brother in law did that of his own accord.

People have convinced me to buy a lot of stupid crap in my life - but in the end, I'm the one who decided to buy it. No one is powerless.

warfreak2

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2197 on: March 24, 2014, 04:01:02 PM »
But if you decided to pay to start a business, because you were lied to about how successful you could be in that business, then it's not just down to your bad decision. A free market doesn't include the freedom to lie to people about what you're selling. When you're selling a "business opportunity" which for 90% of people loses money, but you tell them it's a great way to make money, that's a scam.

I also think selling things at very high markups is often a scam, a price is seen as a representation of quality or value, and that can be a lie too.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 04:03:24 PM by warfreak2 »
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SweetLife

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2198 on: March 24, 2014, 05:01:20 PM »
Overheard at work ... I only pay $60 for the first set (of upper eyelashes) and then $30 every three weeks after that ... it is about the same as what I was spending on mascara ... this was only really funny to me as 1) I rarely wear makeup (and never to work) and 2) I can't remember the last time I bought mascara  lol... I tallied that up over 10 years and almost spit out my coffee

:p 

Typos will happen, corrections appreciated, or just ignore ;)

Twenty4Me

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2199 on: March 24, 2014, 05:25:41 PM »
But if you decided to pay to start a business, because you were lied to about how successful you could be in that business, then it's not just down to your bad decision.

Key words: "could be".

With all of the earning testimonials that I've seen both online and in print, there's always been a disclaimer stating that the earnings stated are not indicative of what you yourself will earn, and must also not be taken as an average of potential earnings. I forget now the exact wording, but it's always been clear as far as I've seen.

The times that I've personally given an earnings testimonial, I've always been honest about what I've made. I've got no reason to try and inflate it as my "meager earnings" may just be the exact amount that someone needs extra every month to make ends meet. In fact, I think being honest about smaller earnings is more relatable than when the "big shots" come along with their high figures, and I know that members of my upline specifically avoid talking exact figures for this very reason as well.

Oh, and my immediate sponsor only earns 15% of the retail price of anything that I sell, while I earn 35% of the retail price. It's really not such a huge commission being "chased up the line". The 3 sponsors in my upline above my immediate sponsor can earn up to 5% each provided they have sold enough product themselves to qualify for those commissions, and no, none of them are selling anything to me as I buy directly from the Herbalife warehouse. So, with my sponsor's 15% and the potential 3x5% my upline can earn, I'm still making more than all of them combined with my 35%. If I was more "out there" and generating enough sales, I could even claim my sponsor's 15% for myself simply by selling more each month and working my way up to it.

But anyways :)

Overheard at work ... I only pay $60 for the first set (of upper eyelashes) and then $30 every three weeks after that ... it is about the same as what I was spending on mascara ... this was only really funny to me as 1) I rarely wear makeup (and never to work) and 2) I can't remember the last time I bought mascara  lol... I tallied that up over 10 years and almost spit out my coffee

Ouch! Is she someone who frequently wears them, or will this become a new accessory for her?