Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8090982 times)

Dollar Slice

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18600 on: September 15, 2017, 09:46:03 PM »
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18601 on: September 16, 2017, 01:27:55 AM »
That's basically a tax scam.  The management company can get away with the 8.69% because it's most of what the employees would have paid in tax anyway, the employees are happy with the 1.29% because it has the benefit of being on untaxed income, and the big loser is the US Treasury.

I'd be tempted to report it to the IRS.
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LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18602 on: September 16, 2017, 06:07:28 AM »
That's basically a tax scam.  The management company can get away with the 8.69% because it's most of what the employees would have paid in tax anyway, the employees are happy with the 1.29% because it has the benefit of being on untaxed income, and the big loser is the US Treasury.

I'd be tempted to report it to the IRS.
I don't know if its a tax scam, but it definitly is a scam, so go forward reporting it.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18603 on: September 16, 2017, 03:05:00 PM »
That's basically a tax scam.  The management company can get away with the 8.69% because it's most of what the employees would have paid in tax anyway, the employees are happy with the 1.29% because it has the benefit of being on untaxed income, and the big loser is the US Treasury.

I'd be tempted to report it to the IRS.
I don't know if its a tax scam, but it definitly is a scam, so go forward reporting it.

Not sure how interested the IRS will be in a presumably Canadian company

TomTX

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18604 on: September 16, 2017, 03:05:34 PM »

Um...until we start talking about pensions...the answer is no.  When someone can retire at 50 with anywhere from 50% to 100% of their highest income (depending on the job), the answer is no.  I don't get to retire at 50.  (I mean, I totally could retire off my investments - we are talking about retiring off of taxpayer money here).

That's the elephant in the room.
- No more retiring at 50.  I don't care if you are a cop.
- If you want to retire at 50, you still have to wait until aged 60-67 to draw a full pension.
- If that's a no-go, then fine, retire at 50, with a paycheck of 25% of the average of your last 10 years.

Or something like that.  I seriously have a friend doing a go fund me to pay for her last semester of school as a pastry chef.  She retired at 50.  Now, she's not a cop or anything, so her pension is around the $40k mark. But that was 10-15 years ago.  She's worked since - teaching ESL, working at grocery stores, etc.  You are in your 60s, save up the $6k, geez.

We can talk about pensions. Where I work, if you want to retire at 50 (under the old system) - you would need to work there for 30 years. That's a pretty long damn run at a single employer.

Pension would be 69% of the highest 3 years' service. Less if you want the pension to continue for your spouse if you die first.

Pension would NOT be inflation-adjusted/COLA. Get paid $3k/month at 50? That's what you're still getting at 90.

Employee would contribute 9.5% of their salary every year to the pension. If they don't wait for the pension and take a lump sum, they get all of 2% per year accrued interest on that money.

Employee is typically paid considerably less than an equivalent private sector job

Frankly, the pension isn't the huge benefit many people make it out to be. Is it a benefit? Yes. But I would have been better off with equivalent 401k matching, and it would be a damn sight more portable. If I just walked away, most of the value would be eaten by inflation before I could draw it.

The new pension system is significantly worse for employees, unless they come to work for the State after a career elsewhere.
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StacheyStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18605 on: September 17, 2017, 06:54:22 AM »

Um...until we start talking about pensions...the answer is no.  When someone can retire at 50 with anywhere from 50% to 100% of their highest income (depending on the job), the answer is no.  I don't get to retire at 50.  (I mean, I totally could retire off my investments - we are talking about retiring off of taxpayer money here).

That's the elephant in the room.
- No more retiring at 50.  I don't care if you are a cop.
- If you want to retire at 50, you still have to wait until aged 60-67 to draw a full pension.
- If that's a no-go, then fine, retire at 50, with a paycheck of 25% of the average of your last 10 years.

Or something like that.  I seriously have a friend doing a go fund me to pay for her last semester of school as a pastry chef.  She retired at 50.  Now, she's not a cop or anything, so her pension is around the $40k mark. But that was 10-15 years ago.  She's worked since - teaching ESL, working at grocery stores, etc.  You are in your 60s, save up the $6k, geez.

We can talk about pensions. Where I work, if you want to retire at 50 (under the old system) - you would need to work there for 30 years. That's a pretty long damn run at a single employer.

Pension would be 69% of the highest 3 years' service. Less if you want the pension to continue for your spouse if you die first.

Pension would NOT be inflation-adjusted/COLA. Get paid $3k/month at 50? That's what you're still getting at 90.

Employee would contribute 9.5% of their salary every year to the pension. If they don't wait for the pension and take a lump sum, they get all of 2% per year accrued interest on that money.

Employee is typically paid considerably less than an equivalent private sector job

Frankly, the pension isn't the huge benefit many people make it out to be. Is it a benefit? Yes. But I would have been better off with equivalent 401k matching, and it would be a damn sight more portable. If I just walked away, most of the value would be eaten by inflation before I could draw it.

The new pension system is significantly worse for employees, unless they come to work for the State after a career elsewhere.

My state has something called "Rule of 90:"  Age plus years of experience must equal 90 or higher before you can retire.  I started a few months after I graduated law school at 25; the earliest I can retire and receive a pension is 58:  33 years of experience plus age 58= 91.  And that's 33 years of making way less than I would in the private sector (50k for a lawyer with three years of experience!!!). 

Definitely not a screaming deal.  You're better off working in the private sector and saving in a traditional 401k in almost every circumstance (and then our state pays 300k of taxpayer money for a study to ask "gwarsh, why we can't hang on to any state workers?!?"  SERIOUSLY.)




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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18606 on: September 17, 2017, 11:26:34 AM »

Um...until we start talking about pensions...the answer is no.  When someone can retire at 50 with anywhere from 50% to 100% of their highest income (depending on the job), the answer is no.  I don't get to retire at 50.  (I mean, I totally could retire off my investments - we are talking about retiring off of taxpayer money here).

That's the elephant in the room.
- No more retiring at 50.  I don't care if you are a cop.
- If you want to retire at 50, you still have to wait until aged 60-67 to draw a full pension.
- If that's a no-go, then fine, retire at 50, with a paycheck of 25% of the average of your last 10 years.

Or something like that.  I seriously have a friend doing a go fund me to pay for her last semester of school as a pastry chef.  She retired at 50.  Now, she's not a cop or anything, so her pension is around the $40k mark. But that was 10-15 years ago.  She's worked since - teaching ESL, working at grocery stores, etc.  You are in your 60s, save up the $6k, geez.

We can talk about pensions. Where I work, if you want to retire at 50 (under the old system) - you would need to work there for 30 years. That's a pretty long damn run at a single employer.

Pension would be 69% of the highest 3 years' service. Less if you want the pension to continue for your spouse if you die first.

Pension would NOT be inflation-adjusted/COLA. Get paid $3k/month at 50? That's what you're still getting at 90.

Employee would contribute 9.5% of their salary every year to the pension. If they don't wait for the pension and take a lump sum, they get all of 2% per year accrued interest on that money.

Employee is typically paid considerably less than an equivalent private sector job

Frankly, the pension isn't the huge benefit many people make it out to be. Is it a benefit? Yes. But I would have been better off with equivalent 401k matching, and it would be a damn sight more portable. If I just walked away, most of the value would be eaten by inflation before I could draw it.

The new pension system is significantly worse for employees, unless they come to work for the State after a career elsewhere.

My state has something called "Rule of 90:"  Age plus years of experience must equal 90 or higher before you can retire.  I started a few months after I graduated law school at 25; the earliest I can retire and receive a pension is 58:  33 years of experience plus age 58= 91.  And that's 33 years of making way less than I would in the private sector (50k for a lawyer with three years of experience!!!). 

Definitely not a screaming deal.  You're better off working in the private sector and saving in a traditional 401k in almost every circumstance (and then our state pays 300k of taxpayer money for a study to ask "gwarsh, why we can't hang on to any state workers?!?"  SERIOUSLY.)

Stacey -- I am curious,  How much are you required to contribute to it, and what is the formula for the amount that you get?  I want to compare it to the government pension (medical / healthcare standard) here..  I was offered a job with a generous pension, but I found that that it did not work for me, because the mandatory personal contribution was too large for what I needed for retirement (I would have ended up taking home 30% more in retirement, due to funding retirement funds early in life, prior to this job).  I needed the present day cashflow to fund a mortgage and teenagers at home more than money later..

I am assuming that rule of 90 is to retire with a full pension...e.g at age 58, you don't take a reduced pension if the 90 rule is obtained.  Please correct if wrong.


StacheyStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18607 on: September 18, 2017, 05:47:52 AM »

Um...until we start talking about pensions...the answer is no.  When someone can retire at 50 with anywhere from 50% to 100% of their highest income (depending on the job), the answer is no.  I don't get to retire at 50.  (I mean, I totally could retire off my investments - we are talking about retiring off of taxpayer money here).

That's the elephant in the room.
- No more retiring at 50.  I don't care if you are a cop.
- If you want to retire at 50, you still have to wait until aged 60-67 to draw a full pension.
- If that's a no-go, then fine, retire at 50, with a paycheck of 25% of the average of your last 10 years.

Or something like that.  I seriously have a friend doing a go fund me to pay for her last semester of school as a pastry chef.  She retired at 50.  Now, she's not a cop or anything, so her pension is around the $40k mark. But that was 10-15 years ago.  She's worked since - teaching ESL, working at grocery stores, etc.  You are in your 60s, save up the $6k, geez.

We can talk about pensions. Where I work, if you want to retire at 50 (under the old system) - you would need to work there for 30 years. That's a pretty long damn run at a single employer.

Pension would be 69% of the highest 3 years' service. Less if you want the pension to continue for your spouse if you die first.

Pension would NOT be inflation-adjusted/COLA. Get paid $3k/month at 50? That's what you're still getting at 90.

Employee would contribute 9.5% of their salary every year to the pension. If they don't wait for the pension and take a lump sum, they get all of 2% per year accrued interest on that money.

Employee is typically paid considerably less than an equivalent private sector job

Frankly, the pension isn't the huge benefit many people make it out to be. Is it a benefit? Yes. But I would have been better off with equivalent 401k matching, and it would be a damn sight more portable. If I just walked away, most of the value would be eaten by inflation before I could draw it.

The new pension system is significantly worse for employees, unless they come to work for the State after a career elsewhere.

My state has something called "Rule of 90:"  Age plus years of experience must equal 90 or higher before you can retire.  I started a few months after I graduated law school at 25; the earliest I can retire and receive a pension is 58:  33 years of experience plus age 58= 91.  And that's 33 years of making way less than I would in the private sector (50k for a lawyer with three years of experience!!!). 

Definitely not a screaming deal.  You're better off working in the private sector and saving in a traditional 401k in almost every circumstance (and then our state pays 300k of taxpayer money for a study to ask "gwarsh, why we can't hang on to any state workers?!?"  SERIOUSLY.)

Stacey -- I am curious,  How much are you required to contribute to it, and what is the formula for the amount that you get?  I want to compare it to the government pension (medical / healthcare standard) here..  I was offered a job with a generous pension, but I found that that it did not work for me, because the mandatory personal contribution was too large for what I needed for retirement (I would have ended up taking home 30% more in retirement, due to funding retirement funds early in life, prior to this job).  I needed the present day cashflow to fund a mortgage and teenagers at home more than money later..

I am assuming that rule of 90 is to retire with a full pension...e.g at age 58, you don't take a reduced pension if the 90 rule is obtained.  Please correct if wrong.

That's correct.  There is no early retirement before 55 and that's with a substantially reduced payout and still requiremes many years of earned service credit (not sure of the exact amount but I know it's more than 20).  We contribute 9 percent.  It used to be less but has risen every year for awhile now.  We don't have control over the contribution amount.

The formula comes out to a little more than half your salary at retirement at full payout.  Since most state workers make less than 50k...again, better off in the private sector in almost every circumstance.

Edit:  The pension used to be a lot better and still is for anyone who got in about five years ago who were grandfathered in.  The old system was too good to be sustainable, I agree, but the benefits were slashed so much for the new workers that now the state is having the opposite problem:  they can't hold onto anyone because they still want to pay the same low wages with a much crappier pension.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 05:55:40 AM by StacheyStache »

TOgirl

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18608 on: September 18, 2017, 07:47:58 AM »
Get into work this morning, brew my coffee and fill up my water bottle...

Spendy pants colleague "ooohhh ok, if you aren't buying coffee, how about we both don't spend anything this week?"

Me "ummmm ok, I never really buy coffee, so that's easy - should we have a no spend week challenge?"

SPC "OK! sounds like fun! Let's ask spendy pants colleague #2 to join us"

SPC2 "yeah I'm in, my husband said I need to cut down the spending, I spent too much in the last couple of months, but it's partly his fault, he TOLD me to buy the Prada sunglasses"

Me "ok, so it's a challenge - no spending for the rest of the week. I"m going to do it here and at home"

SPC "ok, but I didn't bring breakfast or lunch for today, so I just need to buy some food, then I can start the not spending"

SPC2 "I'm going out at lunch to get my nails re-done, my shellac is growing out. But that's not something tangible, so it counts right? I'm not BUYING something"

Me "........."

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18609 on: September 18, 2017, 08:30:18 AM »
SPC2 "I'm going out at lunch to get my nails re-done, my shellac is growing out. But that's not something tangible, so it counts right? I'm not BUYING something"


Well, I mean, that's just necessary. Her nails have grown out, they NEED to be filled.

(Also, how is that not tangible? You are buying acrylic.)

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18610 on: September 18, 2017, 10:03:32 AM »
SPC2 "I'm going out at lunch to get my nails re-done, my shellac is growing out. But that's not something tangible, so it counts right? I'm not BUYING something"


Well, I mean, that's just necessary. Her nails have grown out, they NEED to be filled.

(Also, how is that not tangible? You are buying acrylic.)

I'll be honest, I never really understood acrylic nails. What's wrong with your own nails?
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marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18611 on: September 18, 2017, 10:23:21 AM »
SPC2 "I'm going out at lunch to get my nails re-done, my shellac is growing out. But that's not something tangible, so it counts right? I'm not BUYING something"


Well, I mean, that's just necessary. Her nails have grown out, they NEED to be filled.

(Also, how is that not tangible? You are buying acrylic.)

I'll be honest, I never really understood acrylic nails. What's wrong with your own nails?

I can see the appeal, but not something I'd do regularly considering the cost. I did get fake nails twice for prom in highschool. Considering a lot of pictures were taken and I bite my nails, it wasn't the worst idea ever. I would probably do it again for a special occasion but that might never happen again. Bleeding cuticles and super rough bitten nails probably isn't something I'd want on a framed picture forever. Fake nails are also much much stronger which is nice for scratching yourself and such.

I guess I only have an answer to this question because I'm an idiot and my nails suck. One of these days I'll stop...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18612 on: September 18, 2017, 10:39:36 AM »
SPC2 "I'm going out at lunch to get my nails re-done, my shellac is growing out. But that's not something tangible, so it counts right? I'm not BUYING something"


Well, I mean, that's just necessary. Her nails have grown out, they NEED to be filled.

(Also, how is that not tangible? You are buying acrylic.)

I'll be honest, I never really understood acrylic nails. What's wrong with your own nails?

Polish doesn't chip off acrylics as easily. They are much much harder to break. Being the same length it gives a more uniform look.

I had acrylics a bit in college, but now just have my natural nails. I'm not spending money on that. I had way more disposable income during college since my expenses were paid by scholarship and parents, so the money I worked for was half save half spend.

Really acrylic nails are kind of like any makeup. What's the point of false eyelashes? What's wrong with your own eyelashes? What's the point of foundation? What's wrong with your own skin color?

Needless to say, I don't wear makeup. I do however LOVE nail art and paint my nails multiple times a week. So I'm  totally cool with people who do wear makeup. But it is all "extra".

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18613 on: September 18, 2017, 12:35:32 PM »
Fake nails seem to be much more common in the US than they are over here. And just like any type of make-up, once it starts to become the norm, many women feel like they have to join that trend or look frumpy / unfashionable / unkempt. I'm glad fake nails aren't a big thing over here yet, although they're on the rise. I've only worn nailpolish once in my life as a teenager and I hated it (and never have had fake nails). Luckily I have pretty strong, healthy looking nails naturally so I don't look like a slob - they look like an understated elegant French manicure.

Going grey and not wearing make-up are two other things that used to be really normal and are now frowned upon. Very few ladies of my grandmother's generation ever wore anything but a little bit of lipstick when they went to town and they all went grey. I only know one woman who's going grey naturally without ever dyeing her hair. People call her a slob constantly though, not sure if they do it to her face but certainly behind her back. She's in a field where looks shouldn't matter (as a medical doctor and a PhD) and she's very meticulous in her job but her grey hair puts people off.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18614 on: September 18, 2017, 01:01:22 PM »
Fake nails seem to be much more common in the US than they are over here. And just like any type of make-up, once it starts to become the norm, many women feel like they have to join that trend or look frumpy / unfashionable / unkempt. I'm glad fake nails aren't a big thing over here yet, although they're on the rise. I've only worn nailpolish once in my life as a teenager and I hated it (and never have had fake nails). Luckily I have pretty strong, healthy looking nails naturally so I don't look like a slob - they look like an understated elegant French manicure.

Going grey and not wearing make-up are two other things that used to be really normal and are now frowned upon. Very few ladies of my grandmother's generation ever wore anything but a little bit of lipstick when they went to town and they all went grey. I only know one woman who's going grey naturally without ever dyeing her hair. People call her a slob constantly though, not sure if they do it to her face but certainly behind her back. She's in a field where looks shouldn't matter (as a medical doctor and a PhD) and she's very meticulous in her job but her grey hair puts people off.

Funny: in engineering, grey hair gets you promoted because it suggests credibility. We also tend to avoid makeup especially in the lab or the field. Wearing makeup tends to get you mistaken for a clerical worker.

Several months ago I suspected that fake nails received far more media attention than real ones did, and did not reflect the preferences of real people despite my daughter's protestations that "everybody" wore fake nails. I never seemed to see any on her classmates except for special events such as Prom. So I did a little bit of fieldwork. I went about my business with a little notebook, and my usual errands took me to a mall, various shops and department stores, several drive-through counters, a hospital, and the office where I worked. As I went, I discreetly counted professional or professional-looking manicures that looked as though someone had exchanged money to make them happen. I classified women's manicures as "none", "polish", "fake" as in long and obviously artificial, or "decorative", meaning an elaborate set of nails with multiple colors, jewels, textures, or more than one pattern that is intended to draw attention to the ring finger. It's very possible that I mis-categorized some French manicures as "none", or a few high-quality fakes as "polish". Most polish jobs were probably done Mustachian-style by the owner of the nails.

In my workplace there were no children, so at the other shops, stores, and mall locations I ignored children and adolescents and focused only on adult women.

At my place of work, one female manager and two engineers had nail polish but none had an obviously fake or decorative look. Three secretaries and one of the janitors had decorative fake nails. None of the security guards had polish and neither did any of the student interns.

At the hospital, none of the doctors or nurses had any manicure or polish whatsoever. Counter staff nearly all wore nail polish however I only noticed two with nails that appeared to be fake, and only one of those sets was decorative.

At the drive-through, nearly every female counter worker had a set of elaborate fake decorative nails, generally complete with added jewels and doodads. The second most common way to wear nails was polished. Very few drive-through employees wore bare nails.

At the mall, clerks tended to wear nail polish but not fake nails. Most customers had no nail polish at all. Only about one in ten women who were not obviously employed at the mall wore nail polish or decoration of any sort, and only about half of those (I'd say about five percent) wore decorative nails. Most food service workers who handled food did not wear polish or nail decoration of any kind at work. This could have reflected company policy of some kind.

Overall, I'd say only five to ten percent of the women who can afford it were wearing fake nails. The ones who do, tend to be concentrated either in entertainment-related industries where a high maintenance appearance is considered necessary, or in very low-end service jobs where it's important to hide dirt that may be under the fingernails.
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Rowellen

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18615 on: September 18, 2017, 03:52:16 PM »
TGS, when I worked at McDonald's, we weren't allowed to wear nail polish. I believe it was a health and safety requirement. My mum was a nurse so she was also not allowed to wear nail polish. For the same reason I assume.

My spendypants coworker has fancy fake nails. I think they look a bit ridiculous and impractical. She also always has her hair and makeup done. I've mentioned her before. She likes to purchase  $200 skirts on afterpay. She's the only one in the office that does this so it's not keeping up a certain expected appearance. It's purely her own vanity.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18616 on: September 18, 2017, 04:47:15 PM »
Going grey and not wearing make-up are two other things that used to be really normal and are now frowned upon.

I've been pondering this lately because of the stark differences in two of my female colleagues.

Colleague A:
- over 60
- tall, handsome woman
- short grey hair, well maintained, styled but nothing fussy
- looks strong and fit
- wardrobe is the embodiment of 'fashion comes and goes but style is forever'

Colleague B:
- over 60
- carrying about 25kg too many (by her own admission) and has been paying to see a dietitian each week
- spent an inheritance on a face-lift
- long hair that requires expensive dye jobs, but it's then left to its own - limp and slightly greasy - devices
- is still squeezing into clothes that fit 25kg ago

No, I shouldn't be judging my colleagues on their appearance.

Yes, they can present themselves as they like.

It's just interesting to me that the one who is more focused on maintaining herself (Colleague A cycles, hikes, eats well) presents better than the one focused on maintaining her appearance (Colleague B, who sees her dietitian then comes to work with lollies to celebrate).

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18617 on: September 18, 2017, 04:49:22 PM »
One of my colleagues lives in a $5.3 million house in a beach suburb.

Her neighbours just bought the $2.9 million house next door with the sole purpose of demolishing it to improve their ocean view.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18618 on: September 18, 2017, 04:56:14 PM »
One of my colleagues lives in a $5.3 million house in a beach suburb.

Her neighbours just bought the $2.9 million house next door with the sole purpose of demolishing it to improve their ocean view.

Like, they already own the house behind it and it was blocking their view?  Or they're going to rebuild it more to their liking?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18619 on: September 18, 2017, 05:03:23 PM »
One of my colleagues lives in a $5.3 million house in a beach suburb.

Her neighbours just bought the $2.9 million house next door with the sole purpose of demolishing it to improve their ocean view.

Like, they already own the house behind it and it was blocking their view?  Or they're going to rebuild it more to their liking?

They own the house behind it and it was partially blocking their view.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18620 on: September 18, 2017, 07:27:14 PM »
One of my colleagues lives in a $5.3 million house in a beach suburb.

Her neighbours just bought the $2.9 million house next door with the sole purpose of demolishing it to improve their ocean view.

Like, they already own the house behind it and it was blocking their view?  Or they're going to rebuild it more to their liking?

They own the house behind it and it was partially blocking their view.
I wonder if each morning, they walk out on their balcony, look out at the ocean, and think "I'm so glad I'm spending >$300 today see a bit more of the ocean.  And I'm glad that tomorrow, I'll spend that same $300 to enjoy a slightly-larger view of the ocean again.  And another $300 the day afterward."  (4% interest on $2.9million is about $320/day)

Gone_Hiking

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18621 on: September 18, 2017, 10:06:56 PM »
Anyway, I find it more strange that people always want tax cuts, but never service cuts.

However, there's a ballot measure this fall to add 1% to our already 8.25% sales tax for infrastructure to fix our roads, etc.
 

1.  Seems to me that some of the people who want tax cuts also want to cut services - just not services for them.  To those types, they deserve the benefits they get - and everybody else is a deadbeat.  This sentiment is perhaps heard more when it comes to Social Security in United States.
2. When it comes to fixing roads, sales tax is not perfect.  A better formula might involve vehicle weight and miles driven.   Sales tax, however, seems to be more equitable  than property tax levied on homeowners.  Property tax raise is a new idea from the county where I live and where roads are in bad shape.  Because sales tax requires unanimous vote from the county board of supervisors and property tax raise needs majority only, homeowners are now paying for the road updates because the county board can't muster unanimity on anything, including laws of physics.  Vehicle weight and miles driven proposals don't have a chance to pass through state legislature within the next ten years.

Of course, it's easy for me to pick on the county board of supervisors: property tax statement came in the mail today.  The point of view depends on where one has planted the rear end, no?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18622 on: September 19, 2017, 02:24:30 AM »
^^Surely vehicle weight and miles driven are correlated with petrol ("gas") used. So tax petrol and use it to maintain roads.

On fake nails: I've known a few people who had manicures frequently in the past, but now I live in a poor mostly-black area I see a lot of fake nails. Some of them are amazing (colours, patterns, rhinestones) and some of them are ridiculous (cannot get card out of purse because of massive claw nails). But I read a thing one time about why poor people value ostentatious clothes, hair and makeup and middle class people are obsessed with their houses. Property value might be a bragging thing for the middle classes but you can't *see* it, whereas anyone you meet can see your awesome nails or the latest pair of trainers.

farfromfire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18623 on: September 19, 2017, 02:55:38 AM »
^^Surely vehicle weight and miles driven are correlated with petrol ("gas") used. So tax petrol and use it to maintain roads.

... for now. But with the advent of electric cars, this will no longer be the case:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/treasury-tax-electric-cars-vat-fuel-duty
I know that in some countries, governments are considering taxing car use for road improvement by requiring recording devices in every car, that report the distance driven each month.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18624 on: September 19, 2017, 03:09:47 AM »
^^Surely vehicle weight and miles driven are correlated with petrol ("gas") used. So tax petrol and use it to maintain roads.

... for now. But with the advent of electric cars, this will no longer be the case:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/treasury-tax-electric-cars-vat-fuel-duty
I know that in some countries, governments are considering taxing car use for road improvement by requiring recording devices in every car, that report the distance driven each month.

Fair enough, but it's still the case NOW and American petrol is known for being ridiculously cheap so they could easily jack up the tax on that for the time being.

nobody123

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18625 on: September 19, 2017, 06:45:56 AM »
^^Surely vehicle weight and miles driven are correlated with petrol ("gas") used. So tax petrol and use it to maintain roads.

... for now. But with the advent of electric cars, this will no longer be the case:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/treasury-tax-electric-cars-vat-fuel-duty
I know that in some countries, governments are considering taxing car use for road improvement by requiring recording devices in every car, that report the distance driven each month.

Fair enough, but it's still the case NOW and American petrol is known for being ridiculously cheap so they could easily jack up the tax on that for the time being.

It is EXTREMELY unpopular to raise the gas tax, since it affects essentially everyone, rich and poor alike.  Even those without vehicles are affected as service providers like trash collection just pass it along as part of their "fuel cost surcharge".

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18626 on: September 19, 2017, 07:09:23 AM »
There was some talk of adding a mileage tax, assessed at the required annual emissions inspection, in my area.  I don't think it passed, but it would have been a good complement to the gas tax - we already have one of the highest gas taxes in the country, and you wouldn't know it from the roads :/

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18627 on: September 19, 2017, 08:24:57 AM »
I read about someone online who was running his diesel off of waste oil (greasecar). He tried the DMV, state police, secretary of state, etc., trying to figure out how he could pay his road tax. Nobody could help him. He has been keeping track of everything, but as he's gone through about 2 gallons of diesel in the past 4 years he's not paid nearly any of his road tax because no one knows how.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18628 on: September 19, 2017, 08:33:36 AM »
There was some talk of adding a mileage tax, assessed at the required annual emissions inspection, in my area.  I don't think it passed, but it would have been a good complement to the gas tax - we already have one of the highest gas taxes in the country, and you wouldn't know it from the roads :/
This is a great example of why, as nobody123 pointed out, increasing the gas tax is unpopular.  People may not understand the word "fungible," but they *do* understand when they're being taxed more to take care of the roads, and the roads aren't being maintained.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18629 on: September 19, 2017, 10:09:36 AM »
One of my colleagues lives in a $5.3 million house in a beach suburb.

Her neighbours just bought the $2.9 million house next door with the sole purpose of demolishing it to improve their ocean view.

Like, they already own the house behind it and it was blocking their view?  Or they're going to rebuild it more to their liking?

They own the house behind it and it was partially blocking their view.


Hey, this could be a shrewd investment concept.     Buy adjacent property, remove home, maybe a tree that also blocks your own view.  Maybe put a small (cheap) affordable home for renters where you can't see it, to cover taxes, maybe not.   

Live in own home for 2 more years, then renovate existing home, sell it for $10 million in perfect condition with fabulous view.   Then build a massive house on the second property, again blocking the first home's view, or just sell the land as is to someone else for $3 million (as it has a new small home on it), or for $5 million (to the people that just bought the first home).

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18630 on: September 19, 2017, 10:28:42 AM »

That's correct.  There is no early retirement before 55 and that's with a substantially reduced payout and still requiremes many years of earned service credit (not sure of the exact amount but I know it's more than 20).  We contribute 9 percent. It used to be less but has risen every year for awhile now.  We don't have control over the contribution amount.

The formula comes out to a little more than half your salary at retirement at full payout.  Since most state workers make less than 50k...again, better off in the private sector in almost every circumstance.

Edit:  The pension used to be a lot better and still is for anyone who got in about five years ago who were grandfathered in.  The old system was too good to be sustainable, I agree, but the benefits were slashed so much for the new workers that now the state is having the opposite problem:  they can't hold onto anyone because they still want to pay the same low wages with a much crappier pension.

That is horrible.  At 9%, the employees under 40 are essentially fully funding their own retirement plans -- this is a zero benefit, other than the "convenience" of having your employer force you to automatically contribute...   and those over 40 would not get much payout because retiring after anything less than 25 years of service would be under the full "90".. but at least their total $s received versus $'s put in would be higher than the young person.

The pension plan I walked away from was a required contribution of 9% from me, and matched with something like 6-8% by the company, vested after 2 years, so a lot of money... AND they were paying market rates for salaries, even though they told themselves that they weren't.  Heck, in some cities with heavy government (the capital), people there make MORE than the industry will bear.  Anyway this "pension" would end up with my having far too much money in retirement and not enough in the current year. 

I think the reason that your employer only pays 2% interest on their contributions is because the company is not putting any of their own money to be vested so there is nothing to "vest".

Sounds like a job for people having trouble getting hired, so you can work for 2-4 years for experience, then get out with your "pension" lump sum....  like a FT paid internship...   Not what the management has in mind, I am sure.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18631 on: September 19, 2017, 11:30:25 AM »

That's correct.  There is no early retirement before 55 and that's with a substantially reduced payout and still requiremes many years of earned service credit (not sure of the exact amount but I know it's more than 20).  We contribute 9 percent. It used to be less but has risen every year for awhile now.  We don't have control over the contribution amount.

The formula comes out to a little more than half your salary at retirement at full payout.  Since most state workers make less than 50k...again, better off in the private sector in almost every circumstance.

Edit:  The pension used to be a lot better and still is for anyone who got in about five years ago who were grandfathered in.  The old system was too good to be sustainable, I agree, but the benefits were slashed so much for the new workers that now the state is having the opposite problem:  they can't hold onto anyone because they still want to pay the same low wages with a much crappier pension.

That is horrible.  At 9%, the employees under 40 are essentially fully funding their own retirement plans -- this is a zero benefit, other than the "convenience" of having your employer force you to automatically contribute...   and those over 40 would not get much payout because retiring after anything less than 25 years of service would be under the full "90".. but at least their total $s received versus $'s put in would be higher than the young person.

The pension plan I walked away from was a required contribution of 9% from me, and matched with something like 6-8% by the company, vested after 2 years, so a lot of money... AND they were paying market rates for salaries, even though they told themselves that they weren't.  Heck, in some cities with heavy government (the capital), people there make MORE than the industry will bear.  Anyway this "pension" would end up with my having far too much money in retirement and not enough in the current year. 

I think the reason that your employer only pays 2% interest on their contributions is because the company is not putting any of their own money to be vested so there is nothing to "vest".

Sounds like a job for people having trouble getting hired, so you can work for 2-4 years for experience, then get out with your "pension" lump sum....  like a FT paid internship...   Not what the management has in mind, I am sure.

For fun I created a spreadsheet. Assumed that you're paid $100k annually with no raises and you contribute 9% of that annually and get a 10% return. By the year 34 the amount will have exceeded $2.5M (this is before inflation), meaning that you will get more than $100k annually if you withdraw 4%.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18632 on: September 19, 2017, 11:33:03 AM »


For fun I created a spreadsheet.

Yeah baby tell me more

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18633 on: September 19, 2017, 11:45:34 AM »

arebelspy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18634 on: September 19, 2017, 11:46:06 PM »
MgoSam is the accountant version of bloodninja.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

MonkeyJenga

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18635 on: September 20, 2017, 05:15:49 AM »
MgoSam is the accountant version of bloodninja.

.... Wow. I've seen references to "I put on my robe and wizard hat" before and now I finally understand it!

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18636 on: September 20, 2017, 06:27:17 AM »
MgoSam is the accountant version of bloodninja.

.... Wow. I've seen references to "I put on my robe and wizard hat" before and now I finally understand it!

Read the entire top 200 on there. I died laughing. But unfortunately there a lot of stolen jokes from there now. The top 100/200 pages are two different pages by the way (makes no sense).
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 06:31:26 AM by marielle »

jordanread

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18637 on: September 20, 2017, 07:09:49 AM »
Ah, bash.org. The hours I've spent.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18638 on: September 20, 2017, 09:36:05 AM »
Bringing back some orange foam, from maybe not even this thread.  There was discussion about leaving your car running while pumping gas...  Over the weekend I got some gas, and a police officer did the same, but kept his car running while he got his.  So I'm guessing it's at least legal to do.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18639 on: September 20, 2017, 10:20:27 AM »
MgoSam is the accountant version of bloodninja.

Jesus, there's an old and obscure geek reference I haven't heard in a while.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18640 on: September 20, 2017, 10:30:51 AM »
Bringing back some orange foam, from maybe not even this thread.  There was discussion about leaving your car running while pumping gas...  Over the weekend I got some gas, and a police officer did the same, but kept his car running while he got his.  So I'm guessing it's at least legal to do.

All the gas stations here have signs that tell you to turn off the engine.  Also to ground yourself - which I figure I do when I get out of the car and touch the gas pump.

Plus if you search on-line for this there are emission control systems and gas vapour control systems that get messed up if you always fill up the car while running.
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I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18641 on: September 20, 2017, 10:51:25 AM »
Not anti-mustachian but at work:

Our work has 3 breakrooms with fridges in each.  So many people are bringing their lunches they had to put a second fridge in each breakroom.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18642 on: September 20, 2017, 10:57:59 AM »
CW #1 (having issues with his '14 truck that he bought certified a year ago): Man, this (whatever issue is going on) should be covered.  I just bought it a year ago!

CW #2: That's why I always lease.  The best insurance policy money can buy, baby!

Me in my head: :facepalm:

Later in the day, 529 plans come up:

CW #1: I checked and we have about $40K saved up for our daughter, who goes off to college in five years.  I'm worried it's not enough.

CW #2: That's great, man!  We only put away $25/month for each of the (two) kids.

CW #2: In fact, I talked to DW about my bonus coming up if we should set that aside for the kids' college fund and she just laughed and said, "No **** that."
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 01:56:20 PM by DarkandStormy »
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MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18643 on: September 20, 2017, 01:51:11 PM »
MgoSam is the accountant version of bloodninja.

.... Wow. I've seen references to "I put on my robe and wizard hat" before and now I finally understand it!

Me too, now I know where that comes from. #themoreyouknow

economista

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18644 on: September 20, 2017, 03:23:29 PM »

Overall, I'd say only five to ten percent of the women who can afford it were wearing fake nails. The ones who do, tend to be concentrated either in entertainment-related industries where a high maintenance appearance is considered necessary, or in very low-end service jobs where it's important to hide dirt that may be under the fingernails.

I just had this conversation (argument) with my mom.  I got married a few weeks ago and I invited my mom and sister to go with me the morning of the wedding to get our nails done.  In my mind, getting your nails done means a little polish on the fingernails, and a professional person filing them so they are the same length and look nice.  To my mom and sister, "nails done" means fake nail monstrosities that look stupid and cost a crapload of money.  My mom threw a fit when I said I wasn't getting fake nails, and I kept telling her I didn't want them, and she kept saying I had to.  I finally lost my temper and told her I think fake nails are extremely trashy, because you only see low-class people with fake nails.  (My meaning was low-class in terms of personality, not only in terms of finances).  Then she pouted because I hurt her feelings, but I did it because she wouldn't stop pushing.  And it's true!  You never see successful, professional women with fake nails. 
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18645 on: September 20, 2017, 04:19:22 PM »

Overall, I'd say only five to ten percent of the women who can afford it were wearing fake nails. The ones who do, tend to be concentrated either in entertainment-related industries where a high maintenance appearance is considered necessary, or in very low-end service jobs where it's important to hide dirt that may be under the fingernails.

I just had this conversation (argument) with my mom.  I got married a few weeks ago and I invited my mom and sister to go with me the morning of the wedding to get our nails done.  In my mind, getting your nails done means a little polish on the fingernails, and a professional person filing them so they are the same length and look nice.  To my mom and sister, "nails done" means fake nail monstrosities that look stupid and cost a crapload of money.  My mom threw a fit when I said I wasn't getting fake nails, and I kept telling her I didn't want them, and she kept saying I had to.  I finally lost my temper and told her I think fake nails are extremely trashy, because you only see low-class people with fake nails.  (My meaning was low-class in terms of personality, not only in terms of finances).  Then she pouted because I hurt her feelings, but I did it because she wouldn't stop pushing.  And it's true!  You never see successful, professional women with fake nails.

That's because a well done professional manicure sold to a wealthy woman doesn't look fake. The goal of such a manicure is to make her look good by ensuring her nails look flawless and attractively trimmed and polished. I no doubt missed some of these manicures during my study, misclassifying them as "real". Such a manicure is just as expensive as the flashy kind, but the person who gets it is expected to be able to afford it and doesn't have anything to prove by using nouveau-riche status symbols that say: "look at me, I've got money!"

The only people who buy flashy professional manicures and pedicures are people who are insecure about their money. They may be able to afford it (or not), but unfortunately they give a fuck about about the opinions of people who aren't important. Hence the need to attract attention by buying conspicuous consumption items.
I squeak softly, but carry a big schtick.

Megma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18646 on: September 20, 2017, 04:56:02 PM »

Overall, I'd say only five to ten percent of the women who can afford it were wearing fake nails. The ones who do, tend to be concentrated either in entertainment-related industries where a high maintenance appearance is considered necessary, or in very low-end service jobs where it's important to hide dirt that may be under the fingernails.

I just had this conversation (argument) with my mom.  I got married a few weeks ago and I invited my mom and sister to go with me the morning of the wedding to get our nails done.  In my mind, getting your nails done means a little polish on the fingernails, and a professional person filing them so they are the same length and look nice.  To my mom and sister, "nails done" means fake nail monstrosities that look stupid and cost a crapload of money.  My mom threw a fit when I said I wasn't getting fake nails, and I kept telling her I didn't want them, and she kept saying I had to.  I finally lost my temper and told her I think fake nails are extremely trashy, because you only see low-class people with fake nails.  (My meaning was low-class in terms of personality, not only in terms of finances).  Then she pouted because I hurt her feelings, but I did it because she wouldn't stop pushing.  And it's true!  You never see successful, professional women with fake nails.

That's because a well done professional manicure sold to a wealthy woman doesn't look fake. The goal of such a manicure is to make her look good by ensuring her nails look flawless and attractively trimmed and polished. I no doubt missed some of these manicures during my study, misclassifying them as "real". Such a manicure is just as expensive as the flashy kind, but the person who gets it is expected to be able to afford it and doesn't have anything to prove by using nouveau-riche status symbols that say: "look at me, I've got money!"

The only people who buy flashy professional manicures and pedicures are people who are insecure about their money. They may be able to afford it (or not), but unfortunately they give a fuck about about the opinions of people who aren't important. Hence the need to attract attention by buying conspicuous consumption items.

Agreed. In my circles (professional office women) no one has fake/acrylic nails but shellac/gel manicures are really popular. It's a professionally applied and long lasting nail polish on your real nails. It's just as expensive as fake nails (~40$ a pop) but it looks great for about 3 weeks (compared to 5 days for normal polish).

I'll get it done if i have to travel for work and need it look good for a whole week of meetings. Especially since this happens once or twice a year (People can think i look good all the time, since they rarely see me lol).

But i have a coworker who has it done every 2 weeks or so. She got it done so much that over the summer her salon made her take a break because her nails had thinnedtoo much from it they refused to do it for her.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18647 on: September 20, 2017, 05:14:40 PM »
CW #2: That's great, man!  We only put away $25/month for each of the (two) kids.

Are the kids planning on starting college in their 70s?

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18648 on: September 20, 2017, 11:37:52 PM »
CW #2: That's great, man!  We only put away $25/month for each of the (two) kids.

Are the kids planning on starting college in their 70s?

They get 1 college credit on the bank of dad, the rest they pay for themselves.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18649 on: September 21, 2017, 07:34:21 AM »
CW #2: That's great, man!  We only put away $25/month for each of the (two) kids.

Are the kids planning on starting college in their 70s?

They get 1 college credit on the bank of dad, the rest they pay for themselves.
My parents saved $100/month for me (thank you Mom and Dad!)...in the 80s, and that got me through 3 years of out of state tuition.  Inflation adjusted that's like $210/month now assuming 2.5% inflation.  But the price of college has increased more than inflation, although of course you don't have to do out of state.  So yeah, that might get a semester paid for.

My dad wanted me to go to his alma mater, it was a great fit, and he was paying for it, so I did.  I was pretty frugal already, so I definitely would have done something less expensive if I was paying for it.