Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 7629683 times)

boarder42

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18600 on: September 08, 2017, 11:05:00 AM »
I have a smart meter for my apartment so I compared 2 days hourly kWh usage, a work day with the AC off and a weekend day where we left it running continuously (attachment). Outside temps were almost identical, data taken from National Weather Service station within a few miles of home.

After the first month in our apartment I was worried about our electric bill being so high so I asked someone to take a look at the AC unit and make sure it wasn't malfunctioning and running inefficiently. An employee told me it was probably because I was turning the AC off during the day...I tried to explain the physics to him but he became progressively more upset and loud presumably because I was disagreeing with him?

Anyway, I put this together to prove him wrong but in the end thought better of it since there was really nothing to be gained other than him seeing me as a smartass for the rest of the time I live there. But now I have these awesome visual aids for when the issue comes up in casual conversation.

Edit: Dang. I was late to the AC party. The speed at which a thread about coworkers bad spending habits grows is both worrisome and unsurprising.

the bar graph is cool and all but i'm missing data from the spread sheet.  to see what the difference in kWH was between the 2 days.  is it obviously lower on the graph yes but a simple x much used one day y much used the next would be better

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18601 on: September 08, 2017, 12:16:54 PM »
the bar graph is cool and all but i'm missing data from the spread sheet.  to see what the difference in kWH was between the 2 days.  is it obviously lower on the graph yes but a simple x much used one day y much used the next would be better

There are totals above the graphs.  21.8kWh vs 31.92, so 50% higher leaving the A/C on.

PencilThinStash

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18602 on: September 08, 2017, 12:32:35 PM »
long time reader of this thread, finally have a contribution!

Co-worker (approx 60 years old) was back today from a vacation in the big city where she dropped thousands at costco and got, among other things, a 65-inch TV. Then told me she "would be working for a few more years to pay off the credit card"

I guess it could have been worse - she didn't try to tell me that she "deserved it"

I think she does deserve it. Every cent of that debt and every extra hour of working is exactly what she deserves.

Damn, kill shot. That's my type of ruthless, right there.

...filing this away for future use.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18603 on: September 11, 2017, 06:10:49 AM »
Friend-turned-coworker after he helped me get a foot in the door at our current company got debt free (except his mortgage) about a year and a half ago. This was after being over 60k in credit card debt plus student loans and a number of other things. So what does he do? Goes out and buys a $40k used Chevrolet SS. Ok, his 2013 mazdaspeed 3 was a little small for him. Whatever. Then it turns out him and his wife can't get pregnant. She absolutely HAS to have a child that she birthed (adoption is out of the question despite their strong Christian, "love everybody" outlook on things), so 3 rounds of IVF at $15k a pop, all put on credit cards. So now we are up to 85k back in debt after having JUST paid all of it off.

Ok, so he got it out of his system, right? I mean, he has his nice car, she has her baby, enough spending .... right?
Wrong.

He got a new car (not new, 3 years old used, but whatever) so his wife OBVIOUSLY deserves a new car too, right? Because her kia SUV and his FULL SIZED FAMILY SEDAN are just not enough to haul around an infant. CLEARLY the only logical decision is to trade in the Kia that they just paid off for a brand new plug-in hybrid Pacifica. Because third row seating is an absolute necessity for a family of 3 with (let's be honest after all they went through having the first kid) very little chance of growing.

I just want to smash my face on my desk having heard all of this ...

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18604 on: September 11, 2017, 08:12:58 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.
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RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18605 on: September 11, 2017, 08:29:53 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

This probably came from the myth that your credit score goes up when you carry a balance (pay interest). Untrue, of course, as anyone who pays off their card in full every month can tell you.

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18606 on: September 11, 2017, 08:41:47 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

Credit card companies love me because I charge everything I buy to get my 2% back. They get their 1% (net) from merchants, everybody's happy.
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18607 on: September 11, 2017, 08:47:18 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

ducky19

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18608 on: September 11, 2017, 09:06:46 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

Yeah... I don't think they liked you.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18609 on: September 11, 2017, 09:14:19 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

But they literally get a transaction fee plus a percentage of the sale every time you use it which is completely separate from the interest you would pay them, so they still make money off you.  Unless they have a limit on the number of accounts they are allowed to have and needed to clear out some accounts to make room for better accounts (ie people who pay interest) it doesn't even make sense for them to cancel you.

WerKater

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18610 on: September 11, 2017, 09:54:56 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

But they literally get a transaction fee plus a percentage of the sale every time you use it which is completely separate from the interest you would pay them, so they still make money off you.  Unless they have a limit on the number of accounts they are allowed to have and needed to clear out some accounts to make room for better accounts (ie people who pay interest) it doesn't even make sense for them to cancel you.

I seem to remember that I read somewhere (probably here in this forum...) that someone who always pays his credit card bill on time is actually the better customer (on a risk adjusted basis) for the credit card company. Because the company makes steady income from him and there is no risk that he may default on his debt (because, essentially, he has none). Or am I imagining that?

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18611 on: September 11, 2017, 10:12:51 AM »
Yes, the customer I make money off of, that uses my product, and has low risk of bad debt write off, is always the better customer!

Don't forget that high income customers that pay off every month also make me a lot of money through the charges at the retailer point of sale.  They just don't make as much as the customer that pays interest, too.


RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18612 on: September 11, 2017, 10:12:28 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

But they literally get a transaction fee plus a percentage of the sale every time you use it which is completely separate from the interest you would pay them, so they still make money off you.  Unless they have a limit on the number of accounts they are allowed to have and needed to clear out some accounts to make room for better accounts (ie people who pay interest) it doesn't even make sense for them to cancel you.

I seem to remember that I read somewhere (probably here in this forum...) that someone who always pays his credit card bill on time is actually the better customer (on a risk adjusted basis) for the credit card company. Because the company makes steady income from him and there is no risk that he may default on his debt (because, essentially, he has none). Or am I imagining that?

I agree. I can't imagine that the number of people that rack up a large amount of debt and then pay it all off is very large. People will default or give up on paying it off eventually. People who get into trouble and do eventually pay it off are usually the cut-up-the-card people which lowers the income stream for the creditor.
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Zoot

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18613 on: September 11, 2017, 11:53:54 AM »
I seem to remember that I read somewhere (probably here in this forum...) that someone who always pays his credit card bill on time is actually the better customer (on a risk adjusted basis) for the credit card company. Because the company makes steady income from him and there is no risk that he may default on his debt (because, essentially, he has none). Or am I imagining that?

I think it depends on what the definition of a "good" customer is.  ;-) 

In the credit card industry, people who pay their balance in full every month are apparently called deadbeats, because they "use the lender's money but pay no interest on it." 

But I also see that customers who do this could be seen through a different lens as an asset rather than a liability, because they represent a low-risk, steady stream of income at the merchant fee rate on the money the cardholder is using as "float."  Not a bad way to make ~2-3% on your money, guaranteed, plus whatever fees you can manage to wrangle out of the cardholders who goof something up.

Edited to add this link:  http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/aba-study-revolvers-transactors-1701.php.  Apparently as of late 2014, "deadbeats" (also called "transactors") represent 29% of credit card users, while "revolvers" (people who don't pay in full every month) represent 41.2%.  The remaining 29.8% are "dormant" (i.e., inactive accounts).
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 11:56:29 AM by Zoot »

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18614 on: September 11, 2017, 12:09:05 PM »
Zoot,  that is very interesting, thanks for posting.   So...  43% of all cc's with a transaction in a month are paid in full at the end of the month...  That is a lot higher than I thought I would see.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18615 on: September 11, 2017, 12:22:04 PM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

But they literally get a transaction fee plus a percentage of the sale every time you use it which is completely separate from the interest you would pay them, so they still make money off you.  Unless they have a limit on the number of accounts they are allowed to have and needed to clear out some accounts to make room for better accounts (ie people who pay interest) it doesn't even make sense for them to cancel you.

I know that. But they canceled my card after 15 years of regular use.  So no idea.  My credit score is superb, and even losing that it didn't change it much.

Zoot

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18616 on: September 11, 2017, 12:32:38 PM »
Zoot,  that is very interesting, thanks for posting.   So...  43% of all cc's with a transaction in a month are paid in full at the end of the month...  That is a lot higher than I thought I would see.

Actually, that backwards:  it's the 29% who are "transactors" who pay in full every month.  The largest group is the ones that carry a balance (the "revolvers"), at 41.2%.  So your instincts were right!  :)


Raenia

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18617 on: September 11, 2017, 01:37:17 PM »
Zoot,  that is very interesting, thanks for posting.   So...  43% of all cc's with a transaction in a month are paid in full at the end of the month...  That is a lot higher than I thought I would see.

Actually, that backwards:  it's the 29% who are "transactors" who pay in full every month.  The largest group is the ones that carry a balance (the "revolvers"), at 41.2%.  So your instincts were right!  :)

I believe Goldielocks was disregarding the inactive cards, and calculating only from those cards that have active transactions in a month.  I.E. 43% of people who used their card during the month pay it off, while 57% carry a balance.  Those are closer than I would have expected - I would have called a much higher percentage of "revolvers."

Debts_of_Despair

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18618 on: September 11, 2017, 02:56:28 PM »
We have a retroactive salary check coming up.  People are are cranking up their withholding allowances because they need the money now and don't want to pay "extra" in taxes!  I can understand making some calculations on what the taxes are actually going to be and adjusting accordingly but these people don't even know what a marginal tax bracket is.

kayvent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18619 on: September 11, 2017, 03:13:57 PM »
We have a retroactive salary check coming up.  People are are cranking up their withholding allowances because they need the money now and don't want to pay "extra" in taxes!  I can understand making some calculations on what the taxes are actually going to be and adjusting accordingly but these people don't even know what a marginal tax bracket is.

:( This topic makes me depressed. I hear so much misinformed spew because people don't know this.

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18620 on: September 12, 2017, 09:57:33 AM »
We have a retroactive salary check coming up.  People are are cranking up their withholding allowances because they need the money now and don't want to pay "extra" in taxes!  I can understand making some calculations on what the taxes are actually going to be and adjusting accordingly but these people don't even know what a marginal tax bracket is.

:( This topic makes me depressed. I hear so much misinformed spew because people don't know this.

"I don't want to earn more money because my taxes will go up and I'll actually pocket less money!"
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

BDWW

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18621 on: September 12, 2017, 12:19:29 PM »
^Reminds me of conversation I had at work a couple months ago, so the details will be a little sketchy.

Her contractor husband just bought a huge new truck. I asked her about it, and she said that it was a write off to avoid paying taxes. Apparently his accountant advised him to make any capital expenditures he could to lower his tax burden for the year. All common enough stuff in the trades, but he actually had a fairly new truck. I mentioned that if he/they had just paid the taxes and kept the current truck they would have probably come out ahead. More taxes, but more money in their pockets too. And that the depreciation of the truck in the first year would probably cancel out a large portion of the tax savings... 

"Well, he really wanted a new truck anyway."

Fair enough.

dycker1978

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18622 on: September 12, 2017, 12:53:30 PM »
CW insisted on telling me his "strategy" at the casino the other day. It hurt.

CW: "I'll wait till we win about a hundred dollars, then go take that out to the car so my wife can't spend it all back at the casino"
Me: "Yea but how much do you typically spend to make the first hundred?"
CW: "I dunno, but we aren't using the high roller slot machines, some people will go crazy on those things. They play five dollars at a time! We use the dollar machines."
CW: "I go to the casino to make money, not spend it!"

I didn't have anything constructive to say, hearing something that crazy blew my mind. I was speechless and changed the topic.

My parents went to Vegas two to three times per year for decades and always came back talking about the one or two big wins that they had during the trip. In each of these instances I tried to find out how much they spent to get the big win, and never could elicit an answer that made mathematical sense.  My father was otherwise logical and clear minded, but there was some sort of euphoric recall that took over when slot machines were involved.  I think at the end of the day, they spent $s at the casino being entertained in ways they enjoyed and the total cost was in their budget, so no harm no foul.

Classic illustration of the principle of intermittent reward. Nobody enjoys counting up all the small losses, but that win! They might even put you on a billboard! Nobody asks how many decades that middle-aged cocktail waitress in Vegas spent losing hundreds a month before she won her tens of thousands, they just know how happy she looks up there! Be her!

I hit the casinos every week or two when living in Biloxi, but I'd walk in with $20 in cash, play the cheapest video blackjack or poker machine I could find, play slowly, and milk that for "free" drinks (+$1 tip) until I ran out. It was cheaper than a typical bar tab and more entertaining, so I called it a win. Careful players might hack the system even better for real benefits, but that's all ever I cared to do.

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Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

This reminds me of a previous job.  It was about 2 blocks from the casino.  I did not have a second car, so I car pooled with another guy, and paid for parking every second day.  The casino would give free parking, if you spend $10 on the slots.  Parking was $10 for the day, so we would always play the slots.  There were a couple of times we won $20 or so.  But we always got parking for free.

fruitfly

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18623 on: September 12, 2017, 01:03:49 PM »
I just spent 30 minutes at work hiding from the Apple Event broadcast. Of course everyone was planning to trade in their phones (all the newest) for the NEW newest $1000 iphone. While bitching about the features they wanted/didn't want in the new phone. I need some new anarchist nerd friends.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18624 on: September 12, 2017, 02:16:05 PM »
This reminds me of a previous job.  It was about 2 blocks from the casino.  I did not have a second car, so I car pooled with another guy, and paid for parking every second day.  The casino would give free parking, if you spend $10 on the slots.  Parking was $10 for the day, so we would always play the slots.  There were a couple of times we won $20 or so.  But we always got parking for free.

The Red Cross blood donation centre in the Sydney CBD has free parking for donors.

Free snacks AND free parking? My husband thinks it's the best deal in town.

dycker1978

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18625 on: September 12, 2017, 02:41:11 PM »
This reminds me of a previous job.  It was about 2 blocks from the casino.  I did not have a second car, so I car pooled with another guy, and paid for parking every second day.  The casino would give free parking, if you spend $10 on the slots.  Parking was $10 for the day, so we would always play the slots.  There were a couple of times we won $20 or so.  But we always got parking for free.

The Red Cross blood donation centre in the Sydney CBD has free parking for donors.

Free snacks AND free parking? My husband thinks it's the best deal in town.
And you may save a life. 

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18626 on: September 12, 2017, 02:54:09 PM »
This reminds me of a previous job.  It was about 2 blocks from the casino.  I did not have a second car, so I car pooled with another guy, and paid for parking every second day.  The casino would give free parking, if you spend $10 on the slots.  Parking was $10 for the day, so we would always play the slots.  There were a couple of times we won $20 or so.  But we always got parking for free.

The Red Cross blood donation centre in the Sydney CBD has free parking for donors.

Free snacks AND free parking? My husband thinks it's the best deal in town.
And you may save a life.

And apparently it's good for the immune system and your body in general to "thin the herd" and have to generate some new blood cells.
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

moof

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18627 on: September 12, 2017, 02:55:01 PM »
We have a retroactive salary check coming up.  People are are cranking up their withholding allowances because they need the money now and don't want to pay "extra" in taxes!  I can understand making some calculations on what the taxes are actually going to be and adjusting accordingly but these people don't even know what a marginal tax bracket is.

:( This topic makes me depressed. I hear so much misinformed spew because people don't know this.

"I don't want to earn more money because my taxes will go up and I'll actually pocket less money!"
Right up there with:
"I don't want to adjust my W-4 because I count on my big tax return to pay for a vacation!"

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18628 on: September 12, 2017, 04:34:29 PM »
A colleague paid $60 for two kilos of biscuits to feed my team. Of seven people.

More than half are trying to lose weight and I'm watching them get up from their desks five or six times a day to grab a biscuit.

I don't eat them, so six people are devouring two kilos of biscuits in less than a week.

And the colleague who bought them just told me she keeps borrowing money from her 10-year-old daughter's piggy bank to pay bills.

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18629 on: September 12, 2017, 04:56:28 PM »
And the colleague who bought them just told me she keeps borrowing money from her 10-year-old daughter's piggy bank to pay bills.

That's stealing. I don't care it's a 10-year-old or a family member or that she probably gave her the money anyway. That's stealing. What a wonderful lesson this little girl is going to learn.
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dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18630 on: September 12, 2017, 05:16:30 PM »
And the colleague who bought them just told me she keeps borrowing money from her 10-year-old daughter's piggy bank to pay bills.

That's stealing. I don't care it's a 10-year-old or a family member or that she probably gave her the money anyway. That's stealing. What a wonderful lesson this little girl is going to learn.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2ggg5e/bought_a_bart_simpson_piggy_bank_at_goodwill_this/


mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18631 on: September 12, 2017, 05:25:53 PM »
And the colleague who bought them just told me she keeps borrowing money from her 10-year-old daughter's piggy bank to pay bills.

That's stealing. I don't care it's a 10-year-old or a family member or that she probably gave her the money anyway. That's stealing. What a wonderful lesson this little girl is going to learn.

The kids don't get pocket money, so this is birthday money from grandparents, and the "loan" now runs to hundreds of dollars.

Apparently the daughter is quite smug about it.

Co-worker's daughter: I'm the only one in the family with money, Mum! You borrowed my money, Dad borrowed my money, [brother] borrowed my money.
Co-worker: Did Daddy borrow money too???

Co-worker said that when she get paid she doesn't have enough left to pay her daughter back.

Co-worker also "jokes" about how she and her husband are both paid fortnightly but on alternate weeks. "We live pay cheque to pay cheque, it's just every week."

Debts_of_Despair

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18632 on: September 12, 2017, 06:22:39 PM »
We have a retroactive salary check coming up.  People are are cranking up their withholding allowances because they need the money now and don't want to pay "extra" in taxes!  I can understand making some calculations on what the taxes are actually going to be and adjusting accordingly but these people don't even know what a marginal tax bracket is.

:( This topic makes me depressed. I hear so much misinformed spew because people don't know this.

"I don't want to earn more money because my taxes will go up and I'll actually pocket less money!"

It actually becomes a problem when we can get people to work OT because "I have to pay more taxes."  I try to explain it but they don't want to listen.  The real problem is they can't plan 6 months into the future.

kayvent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18633 on: September 12, 2017, 07:01:01 PM »
We have a retroactive salary check coming up.  People are are cranking up their withholding allowances because they need the money now and don't want to pay "extra" in taxes!  I can understand making some calculations on what the taxes are actually going to be and adjusting accordingly but these people don't even know what a marginal tax bracket is.

:( This topic makes me depressed. I hear so much misinformed spew because people don't know this.

"I don't want to earn more money because my taxes will go up and I'll actually pocket less money!"

It actually becomes a problem when we can get people to work OT because "I have to pay more taxes."  I try to explain it but they don't want to listen.  The real problem is they can't plan 6 months into the future.

In Canada and my home province 12K is the basic deduction. A single parent like me has a deduction of 40K or more. The first tax bracket is 45K wide.

My mom recently started a new job and her to-be-manager suggested that 46-hours is the optimal time to work (six hours overtime) because any more and the tax clawback is too high. There was sooo many levels of misunderstanding. With no other deduction (no kids, no wife, etc...) the second tax bracket doesn't begin until 57K (this is a teen-dollar per hour job). If the person has a non-working dependent and another large deduction, the tax rate is zero for their job!

The absolute madness of this! How many people in the True North make a decision based on a misunderstanding of how income taxes work!? (It frustrates me. I love Trudeau but one of the reasons our Prime Minister was because he promised a "Middle Class Tax Cut". It is a minuscule amount. Someone making 102K, with only the basic deduction, would save 650$....... A dual-income household where each person makes 57K would save 0$. But everyone loved this 'Middle Class Tax Cut' because they wanted their taxes to go down. Even though it probably wouldn't. I now earn 4x my average peer's income. I still don't fucking make enough to enter the second bracket. /political rant)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 07:03:36 PM by kayvent »

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18634 on: September 13, 2017, 03:31:24 AM »
The absolute madness of this! How many people in the True North make a decision based on a misunderstanding of how income taxes work!? (It frustrates me. I love Trudeau but one of the reasons our Prime Minister was because he promised a "Middle Class Tax Cut". It is a minuscule amount. Someone making 102K, with only the basic deduction, would save 650$....... A dual-income household where each person makes 57K would save 0$. But everyone loved this 'Middle Class Tax Cut' because they wanted their taxes to go down. Even though it probably wouldn't. I now earn 4x my average peer's income. I still don't fucking make enough to enter the second bracket. /political rant)
O.o with a 6-figure income, even canadian dollar, I would not consider you middle class. More like high-income. It is certainly much higher then the (far higher taxed) average German income, which (as averages go) already is something only the top 30% get.

Anyway, I find it more strange that people always want tax cuts, but never service cuts. It is like most people are not able to make the connection "if the states builds something it has to pay for it", what everyone knows, and "I pay taxes so that the state has money".

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18635 on: September 13, 2017, 07:16:03 AM »
Anyway, I find it more strange that people always want tax cuts, but never service cuts. It is like most people are not able to make the connection "if the states builds something it has to pay for it", what everyone knows, and "I pay taxes so that the state has money".
(Raises hand)  I personally would love to see some service cuts.  However, such a position is politically tricky for a politician to make, because there's always someone who will get hurt by that cut, and such sob stories make for good TV segments, even if the cut is actually a good idea.  And it doesn't always have to be a cut in government services, either--there's lots and lots of waste, over-charging, inefficiencies, duplication of functions, etc that could be cut without negatively affecting services.  For example, I'm pretty miffed that our village recently started construction on a massive, $30 million police station (for a population of 30,000) that is ugly as sin.  Or that they're projecting a $50 million cost to widen 4.5 miles of an existing road.  Or that our school district, when facing a shortfall in funds, wants to increase class sizes rather than look at the top-heavy administration (seven assistant superintendents? really?).  Or that the pension system in our state is extraordinarily generous and easy to exploit.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18636 on: September 13, 2017, 07:41:27 AM »

Anyway, I find it more strange that people always want tax cuts, but never service cuts. It is like most people are not able to make the connection "if the states builds something it has to pay for it", what everyone knows, and "I pay taxes so that the state has money".

(Raises hand aswell)

I would want to see some serious cutting of costs, of which not all are services. The way my tax money is being spent has made me turn from happily paying and advocating higher taxes, to theoretically being willing to commit tax fraud and not feel guilty.
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RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18637 on: September 13, 2017, 10:44:43 AM »

Anyway, I find it more strange that people always want tax cuts, but never service cuts. It is like most people are not able to make the connection "if the states builds something it has to pay for it", what everyone knows, and "I pay taxes so that the state has money".

(Raises hand aswell)

I would want to see some serious cutting of costs, of which not all are services. The way my tax money is being spent has made me turn from happily paying and advocating higher taxes, to theoretically being willing to commit tax fraud and not feel guilty.

+1

My area has some of the highest gas costs in the US (not anywhere else though - I know we're spoiled). I am totally cool with that - we have lots of roads and highways. I know this also goes to things like bike paths and public parks. I'd pay more if they needed it. The problem is that the roads are full of potholes and roadkill that never gets cleaned up. They instead spend the money on new railways and brand new (not repairing) highways. Basic maintenance should come first. If they need more money for basic maintenance I'll pay it happily. If they want more for a new project, I'll consider it. This is why I'm angry at my taxes.
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LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18638 on: September 13, 2017, 11:31:05 AM »
Anyway, I find it more strange that people always want tax cuts, but never service cuts. It is like most people are not able to make the connection "if the states builds something it has to pay for it", what everyone knows, and "I pay taxes so that the state has money".
(Raises hand)  I personally would love to see some service cuts.  However, such a position is politically tricky for a politician to make, because there's always someone who will get hurt by that cut, and such sob stories make for good TV segments, even if the cut is actually a good idea.  And it doesn't always have to be a cut in government services, either--there's lots and lots of waste, over-charging, inefficiencies, duplication of functions, etc that could be cut without negatively affecting services.  For example, I'm pretty miffed that our village recently started construction on a massive, $30 million police station (for a population of 30,000) that is ugly as sin.  Or that they're projecting a $50 million cost to widen 4.5 miles of an existing road.  Or that our school district, when facing a shortfall in funds, wants to increase class sizes rather than look at the top-heavy administration (seven assistant superintendents? really?).  Or that the pension system in our state is extraordinarily generous and easy to exploit.

So, the devils question: What are you doing to change that?
For example the police station: Normally somehtign liek this is shown before. Have you been there, looked at the plans and voiced yourself? Have you talked with other people about the ugliness before it was build?

Or the school have you pointed out that holy seveness?
(btw. Here in Germany you have boss in the school, with maybe a half-time "typist". And sometimes that one boss is for three schools, or at least 3 buildings in the town that were once 3 schools and now are one administration-wise (as in my town).

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18639 on: September 13, 2017, 12:49:07 PM »
Anyway, I find it more strange that people always want tax cuts, but never service cuts. It is like most people are not able to make the connection "if the states builds something it has to pay for it", what everyone knows, and "I pay taxes so that the state has money".
(Raises hand)  I personally would love to see some service cuts.  However, such a position is politically tricky for a politician to make, because there's always someone who will get hurt by that cut, and such sob stories make for good TV segments, even if the cut is actually a good idea.  And it doesn't always have to be a cut in government services, either--there's lots and lots of waste, over-charging, inefficiencies, duplication of functions, etc that could be cut without negatively affecting services.  For example, I'm pretty miffed that our village recently started construction on a massive, $30 million police station (for a population of 30,000) that is ugly as sin.  Or that they're projecting a $50 million cost to widen 4.5 miles of an existing road.  Or that our school district, when facing a shortfall in funds, wants to increase class sizes rather than look at the top-heavy administration (seven assistant superintendents? really?).  Or that the pension system in our state is extraordinarily generous and easy to exploit.
Yep. I'm relatively liberal when it comes to taxes.  I consider myself fiscally conservative but I'm fairly liberal in what I think we should spend money on.  I just think we shouldn't waste it.

So, I'm a fan of the idea of single payer health care, for example. That makes me pretty liberal.

However, there's a ballot measure this fall to add 1% to our already 8.25% sales tax for infrastructure to fix our roads, etc.

Um...until we start talking about pensions...the answer is no.  When someone can retire at 50 with anywhere from 50% to 100% of their highest income (depending on the job), the answer is no.  I don't get to retire at 50.  (I mean, I totally could retire off my investments - we are talking about retiring off of taxpayer money here).

That's the elephant in the room.
- No more retiring at 50.  I don't care if you are a cop.
- If you want to retire at 50, you still have to wait until aged 60-67 to draw a full pension.
- If that's a no-go, then fine, retire at 50, with a paycheck of 25% of the average of your last 10 years.

Or something like that.  I seriously have a friend doing a go fund me to pay for her last semester of school as a pastry chef.  She retired at 50.  Now, she's not a cop or anything, so her pension is around the $40k mark. But that was 10-15 years ago.  She's worked since - teaching ESL, working at grocery stores, etc.  You are in your 60s, save up the $6k, geez.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18640 on: September 13, 2017, 01:45:18 PM »
And the colleague who bought them just told me she keeps borrowing money from her 10-year-old daughter's piggy bank to pay bills.

That's stealing. I don't care it's a 10-year-old or a family member or that she probably gave her the money anyway. That's stealing. What a wonderful lesson this little girl is going to learn.

The kids don't get pocket money, so this is birthday money from grandparents, and the "loan" now runs to hundreds of dollars.

Apparently the daughter is quite smug about it.

Co-worker's daughter: I'm the only one in the family with money, Mum! You borrowed my money, Dad borrowed my money, [brother] borrowed my money.
Co-worker: Did Daddy borrow money too???

Co-worker said that when she get paid she doesn't have enough left to pay her daughter back.

Co-worker also "jokes" about how she and her husband are both paid fortnightly but on alternate weeks. "We live pay cheque to pay cheque, it's just every week."
When I was growing up I was my mom's bank.  My dad played games with the checkbook, so my mom never knew how much money was really in their accounts.  So if she needed to buy something, she'd borrow cash from me and next time she went to the bank she'd withdraw enough to pay me back. 

These were for needs, like gas to get to work, or groceries for the week.  It was pretty manipulative of my dad, but I think he was doing it to control his spending, not to manipulate my mom, but it had that effect.  They had a few fights over this.

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18641 on: September 13, 2017, 04:00:36 PM »
Just discovered it's a "thing" at my office to eat lunch in your car and then take a nap with the car running, a/c blasting, and windows open. People often take more than the hour lunch break to do this in 85-degree weather.

I have no words.
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fruitfly

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18642 on: September 13, 2017, 04:04:26 PM »
Just discovered it's a "thing" at my office to eat lunch in your car and then take a nap with the car running, a/c blasting, and windows open. People often take more than the hour lunch break to do this in 85-degree weather.

I have no words.

I used to work at a place (a medical manufacturing facility!) where this was a thing. Only you smoked a big joint in your car before lunching and napping. So that made more sense?

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18643 on: September 13, 2017, 06:46:40 PM »
Just discovered it's a "thing" at my office to eat lunch in your car and then take a nap with the car running, a/c blasting, and windows open. People often take more than the hour lunch break to do this in 85-degree weather.

I have no words.

I used to do this in my garage after a long day at work

Step37

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18644 on: September 13, 2017, 07:55:04 PM »
Just discovered it's a "thing" at my office to eat lunch in your car and then take a nap with the car running, a/c blasting, and windows open. People often take more than the hour lunch break to do this in 85-degree weather.

I have no words.

I have no nice words. Fuck, I hate people like this. They probably chug a nice, big bottled water afterwards, too...
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Rowellen

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18645 on: September 13, 2017, 08:24:03 PM »
Anyway, I find it more strange that people always want tax cuts, but never service cuts. It is like most people are not able to make the connection "if the states builds something it has to pay for it", what everyone knows, and "I pay taxes so that the state has money".
(Raises hand)  I personally would love to see some service cuts.  However, such a position is politically tricky for a politician to make, because there's always someone who will get hurt by that cut, and such sob stories make for good TV segments, even if the cut is actually a good idea.  And it doesn't always have to be a cut in government services, either--there's lots and lots of waste, over-charging, inefficiencies, duplication of functions, etc that could be cut without negatively affecting services.  For example, I'm pretty miffed that our village recently started construction on a massive, $30 million police station (for a population of 30,000) that is ugly as sin.  Or that they're projecting a $50 million cost to widen 4.5 miles of an existing road.  Or that our school district, when facing a shortfall in funds, wants to increase class sizes rather than look at the top-heavy administration (seven assistant superintendents? really?).  Or that the pension system in our state is extraordinarily generous and easy to exploit.

In qld, Australia, the former premier, Cambell Newman, was elected on the back of promises to cut government costs. He won a huge majority.  I just googled to check. His party won 78 of the 89 seats. Unheard of! But people didn't like it when their nice safe cushy government jobs started to get cut. The following election he lost. Went from 78 seats to 42. Newman himself lost his seat.  Committed political suicide. There was probably more to it than just that but that is the big thing I remember from that time.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18646 on: September 13, 2017, 08:56:31 PM »
And the colleague who bought them just told me she keeps borrowing money from her 10-year-old daughter's piggy bank to pay bills.

That's stealing. I don't care it's a 10-year-old or a family member or that she probably gave her the money anyway. That's stealing. What a wonderful lesson this little girl is going to learn.

The kids don't get pocket money, so this is birthday money from grandparents, and the "loan" now runs to hundreds of dollars.

Apparently the daughter is quite smug about it.

Co-worker's daughter: I'm the only one in the family with money, Mum! You borrowed my money, Dad borrowed my money, [brother] borrowed my money.
Co-worker: Did Daddy borrow money too???

Co-worker said that when she get paid she doesn't have enough left to pay her daughter back.

Co-worker also "jokes" about how she and her husband are both paid fortnightly but on alternate weeks. "We live pay cheque to pay cheque, it's just every week."

That was my family dynamic when I was a kid. At 12 years old my parents had a stack of IOU's to me, for mostly little amounts, but also "$160 for pots and pans". I never had an allowance, I had paper routes or odd jobs or worked for them for a fair hourly wage from about age 10 up. I learned to budget and not borrow. They never did to this day.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18647 on: September 13, 2017, 09:40:45 PM »
*snip*
That was my family dynamic when I was a kid. At 12 years old my parents had a stack of IOU's to me, for mostly little amounts, but also "$160 for pots and pans". I never had an allowance, I had paper routes or odd jobs or worked for them for a fair hourly wage from about age 10 up. I learned to budget and not borrow. They never did to this day.

Did you get paid back?  If so, when?
Go soak your beans.  You know you keep forgetting.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18648 on: September 14, 2017, 12:44:58 AM »
And the colleague who bought them just told me she keeps borrowing money from her 10-year-old daughter's piggy bank to pay bills.

That's stealing. I don't care it's a 10-year-old or a family member or that she probably gave her the money anyway. That's stealing. What a wonderful lesson this little girl is going to learn.

The kids don't get pocket money, so this is birthday money from grandparents, and the "loan" now runs to hundreds of dollars.

Apparently the daughter is quite smug about it.

Co-worker's daughter: I'm the only one in the family with money, Mum! You borrowed my money, Dad borrowed my money, [brother] borrowed my money.
Co-worker: Did Daddy borrow money too???

Co-worker said that when she get paid she doesn't have enough left to pay her daughter back.

Co-worker also "jokes" about how she and her husband are both paid fortnightly but on alternate weeks. "We live pay cheque to pay cheque, it's just every week."

That was my family dynamic when I was a kid. At 12 years old my parents had a stack of IOU's to me, for mostly little amounts, but also "$160 for pots and pans". I never had an allowance, I had paper routes or odd jobs or worked for them for a fair hourly wage from about age 10 up. I learned to budget and not borrow. They never did to this day.

I borrow small amounts of cash from my nephew, like a buck or two. I do it so we have to have a written agreement and agree on terms and interest. Then I pay him back with interest a few weeks later. Now he knows how to both borrow and lend money. Not bad for a 6 year old.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18649 on: September 14, 2017, 03:36:05 AM »
I borrow small amounts of cash from my nephew, like a buck or two. I do it so we have to have a written agreement and agree on terms and interest. Then I pay him back with interest a few weeks later. Now he knows how to both borrow and lend money. Not bad for a 6 year old.

I should try that with my nephews.

The five-year-old is completely disinterested in money. When I visit I like to give them a few dollars each for their money box. He will very politely say, "No, thank you." (I put it in his money box anyway, because I like to be fair.)

The two-year-old hoards money. If he finds a stray coin laying around the house it goes straight to his money box. If he doesn't find any coins laying around, he's not above asking my dad for a donation, and he usually gets it, cheeky thing. This one is definitely my nephew, as my mum says. It's his birthday in a bit over a week. I could give him a ziplock bag of 5c coins and he would be delighted.