Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8874876 times)

Freedomin5

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20750 on: August 19, 2018, 05:42:24 PM »
What sort of obligation, if any, do you feel to caution your friends or "work friends" about the consequences of their profligacy? A former colleague of mine is about to be medically released from the military where she earns about $80k/year. Insurance will provide her with 75% of her previous pay for 2 years, then she'll get a pension worth about $30k/year. She's amassed over $40K in consumer debt while earning $80k, so she needs to adjust her lifestyle - but doesn't see the need.

She has little home equity, a high school education, has moved back to a community with high unemployment, and has pegged her financial future on Veterans' Affairs reconsidering a claim that they've already denied, and plans to sell movie ideas to Netflix. She has few transferable skills and a condition that causes her to be in chronic pain, so her employment prospects are very limited.

She could fix her situation by using the insurance money to pay off her debts if she slashes her spending now, but how do I point her to the right path without telling her that her plans tantamount to magical thinking? Even though we don't have much in common, she's a sweet person, and I don't think that she has anyone else in her life to point her on a less destructive path. What to do?

@Sun Hat  If she is a good friend, Iíd just invite her out for a meal to catch up, casually ask about her upcoming plans now that her discharge is imminent, and then show her the math. While her Plan A is to have the VA reconsider her claim, Iíd ask her what her Plan B was ďjust in caseĒ VA denied her claim.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 05:45:49 PM by Freedomin5 »

The Fake Cheap

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20751 on: August 19, 2018, 06:08:54 PM »
One thing I don't get at all are big weddings with honeymoons and big gifts and a wedding registry etc. Although I've personally never been to a wedding like that, in our social circle people tend to have really low-key weddings. I only hear other people's horror stories. Half of people get divorced anyway, and sometimes I think that there might be a correlation between big expensive weddings and divorce statistics.

There is. 

http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2015/01/25/expensive-wedding-higher-odds-divorce/

It is a theory of mine that the correlation exists because the people are married and get along only while the money is flowing.  Once the trips down south, the new cars, trailers, and new iPhone purchases stop because the credit cards are maxed and the line of credit is tapped, the people realize that they don't really enjoy their partner, and were only getting along/having fun with him/her while there was money to burn.

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20752 on: August 20, 2018, 01:37:33 AM »
One thing I don't get at all are big weddings with honeymoons and big gifts and a wedding registry etc. Although I've personally never been to a wedding like that, in our social circle people tend to have really low-key weddings. I only hear other people's horror stories. Half of people get divorced anyway, and sometimes I think that there might be a correlation between big expensive weddings and divorce statistics.

There is. 

http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2015/01/25/expensive-wedding-higher-odds-divorce/

Does the inverse hold true as well? We had a Ä500,- wedding!

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20753 on: August 20, 2018, 02:43:11 AM »
how do I point her to the right path without telling her that her plans tantamount to magical thinking?
You set your own example, and talk it about enthusiastically. That probably won't work, but it has the best chance of working while not causing a rift between you and her as she gets offended that Netflix isn't going to pay her millions.

USD60k for 2 years followed by USD30k for life without having to work for it is actually pretty good if she lives in a low cost-of-living area. Let's say she lives on 25k,

Yr1: 60k income, 25k spending, debt 40k-->5k
Yr2: 60k income, 25k spending, debt 5k -->0k, savings 0k-->25k.
Yr3 and thereafter, 30k income, 5k spending, savings 25k+5k pa.

That's not huge savings but if she's receiving some sort of disability pension from her military service then she will have zero medical costs, so her savings can be for small investments, hobbies, or travel.

But she almost certainly won't do it. People don't engage in magical thinking for just a year or two out of nowhere and then stop, it's a lifelong practice. Digging further, you'll find similar thinking throughout her life, let me guess: is she also single and dreaming of a 6'4" handsome rich charming educated man who sweeps her off her feet one day? So when I say that you should discuss your own example in a conversational way, that's not in expectation of any positive change on her part as a result, but just so you can get it out of your system.

Sun Hat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20754 on: August 20, 2018, 06:54:10 AM »
Thanks for the feedback @Kyle Schuant and @Freedomin5.

One of the few things that my friend and I have in common is that we're both women who were/will be medically released from the military. Our pensions will even be of a pretty similar amount. For me, the 70% reduction in income wasn't a big impact to my daily spending, as I had been saving over 60% of my pay anyways, so I just downsized from my almost-paid for home to a totally paid for home and called it a day. Kyle Schuant is right, hers is a lifetime of magical thinking and poor financial management. Fortunately, we're Canadian, so medical costs aren't a significant factor.

I think that Freedomin5's suggestion of asking about her Plan B is a good one, and far more tactful than anything that I could have come up with on my own. Unfortunately, I won't get to see her face to face, since I only saw her while she was passing through my city enroute her retirement destination and she was traveling with her 14 year old daughter, and I didn't want to shake her by the collar and call her crazy in front of her kid, so I just smiled and nodded when she told me her situation. I'll have to make my query by email.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20755 on: August 20, 2018, 06:59:04 AM »
... but how do I point her to the right path without telling her that her plans tantamount to magical thinking? Even though we don't have much in common, she's a sweet person, and I don't think that she has anyone else in her life to point her on a less destructive path. What to do?
I'm not very good at this, but I've seen others employ this method to great effect:  ask questions.  Don't (outwardly) judge them or say that they're in dreamland.  Ask the questions that will force them to actually think through their future.  Freedomin5 is on the right track--ask what plan B is.  Ask how much it'll cost to live in her new place.  Ask what kind of jobs are available there.  Ask how she sees her life in 5 years.  Ask the "what if" questions.  Ask her what makes her think the VA will reconsider the previously-denied claim.  Ask her what her actual spending is (does she even know?).

KodeBlue

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20756 on: August 20, 2018, 07:20:27 AM »
Today he asked our HR person for (another) 401k loan to pay for his 13 year old dog's intestine surgery. This is the second such request this year, with vet bills now over $15k.

As an animal lover and owner of 3 dogs it always pisses me off when I hear about people subjecting a dog or cat to multiple procedures to prolong thier life. So many times times it just prolongs the animal's suffering. I don't care if you have $10M; at some point you need to do what's best for the pet. This might mean letting go and not letting them stay alive but miserable. <end rant>

Same could be said for humans :)
true, but humans can generally make thier wishes known and can refuse treatment. animals can't.

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20757 on: August 20, 2018, 09:43:07 AM »
It is a theory of mine that the correlation exists because the people are married and get along only while the money is flowing.  Once the trips down south, the new cars, trailers, and new iPhone purchases stop because the credit cards are maxed and the line of credit is tapped, the people realize that they don't really enjoy their partner, and were only getting along/having fun with him/her while there was money to burn.
Alternatively, weddings often serve as a way to leverage Sunk Cost Fallacy to keep the investment in a relationship high. The more uncertain you are in your relationship, the more magic you try to throw on it.

a286

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20758 on: August 20, 2018, 09:51:57 AM »
It is a theory of mine that the correlation exists because the people are married and get along only while the money is flowing.  Once the trips down south, the new cars, trailers, and new iPhone purchases stop because the credit cards are maxed and the line of credit is tapped, the people realize that they don't really enjoy their partner, and were only getting along/having fun with him/her while there was money to burn.
Alternatively, weddings often serve as a way to leverage Sunk Cost Fallacy to keep the investment in a relationship high. The more uncertain you are in your relationship, the more magic you try to throw on it.

This would explain so much about my BILs recent wedding. He was with his family at the hotel the day of the wedding, getting ready with his brothers, and saying how it only has a 50/50 shot anyways.

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20759 on: August 20, 2018, 12:27:17 PM »
Today he asked our HR person for (another) 401k loan to pay for his 13 year old dog's intestine surgery. This is the second such request this year, with vet bills now over $15k.

As an animal lover and owner of 3 dogs it always pisses me off when I hear about people subjecting a dog or cat to multiple procedures to prolong thier life. So many times times it just prolongs the animal's suffering. I don't care if you have $10M; at some point you need to do what's best for the pet. This might mean letting go and not letting them stay alive but miserable. <end rant>

Same could be said for humans :)
true, but humans can generally make thier wishes known and can refuse treatment. animals can't.

Are you so sure that humans can refuse treatment? If that really were a thing, then the health insurance data would look drastically different than it does. The % of costs paid in the last year of a persons life is really high. Culturally, at least in the US, we're terrified of death and will do anything not to die. Thus ensuring that we have a horrible death in the end.

dcheesi

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20760 on: August 20, 2018, 01:50:40 PM »
It is a theory of mine that the correlation exists because the people are married and get along only while the money is flowing.  Once the trips down south, the new cars, trailers, and new iPhone purchases stop because the credit cards are maxed and the line of credit is tapped, the people realize that they don't really enjoy their partner, and were only getting along/having fun with him/her while there was money to burn.
Alternatively, weddings often serve as a way to leverage Sunk Cost Fallacy to keep the investment in a relationship high. The more uncertain you are in your relationship, the more magic you try to throw on it.
Or it could be a sign that at least one person in the relationship has unrealistic expectations about marriage. The bride or groom who just has to have their perfect dream day may also be expecting similar dream-like perfection in their married life. And/or they may see the wedding as their ultimate "finish line", and haven't thought much about the rest of their life after that.

penguintroopers

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20761 on: August 20, 2018, 03:48:16 PM »
Today he asked our HR person for (another) 401k loan to pay for his 13 year old dog's intestine surgery. This is the second such request this year, with vet bills now over $15k.

As an animal lover and owner of 3 dogs it always pisses me off when I hear about people subjecting a dog or cat to multiple procedures to prolong thier life. So many times times it just prolongs the animal's suffering. I don't care if you have $10M; at some point you need to do what's best for the pet. This might mean letting go and not letting them stay alive but miserable. <end rant>

Same could be said for humans :)
true, but humans can generally make thier wishes known and can refuse treatment. animals can't.

Are you so sure that humans can refuse treatment? If that really were a thing, then the health insurance data would look drastically different than it does. The % of costs paid in the last year of a persons life is really high. Culturally, at least in the US, we're terrified of death and will do anything not to die. Thus ensuring that we have a horrible death in the end.

We were on the periphery watching this, but my husband's family had a pastor who was with their congregation for years and became good friends. They had moved to other ministry pursuits at a different congregation, but kept in touch some. He was diagnosed with a very aggressive and advanced bladder cancer, and his prognosis for treatment and quality-of-life even if treatment was successful was pretty bleak. He turned down treatment (after lots of prayer and consulting with his wife of course). Not sure if he had to state some religious reason, but it sounded pretty much like "Nope, don't wanna" and the doctors said "well, we can't make you, so ok" and they just tried for quality of life while letting the cancer run its course.

It was a pretty sad story all around, until you considered how much he affected other's lives. The church was packed for his memorial service.

AMandM

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20762 on: August 20, 2018, 03:51:33 PM »
It is a theory of mine that the correlation exists because the people are married and get along only while the money is flowing.  Once the trips down south, the new cars, trailers, and new iPhone purchases stop because the credit cards are maxed and the line of credit is tapped, the people realize that they don't really enjoy their partner, and were only getting along/having fun with him/her while there was money to burn.
Alternatively, weddings often serve as a way to leverage Sunk Cost Fallacy to keep the investment in a relationship high. The more uncertain you are in your relationship, the more magic you try to throw on it.
Or it could be a sign that at least one person in the relationship has unrealistic expectations about marriage. The bride or groom who just has to have their perfect dream day may also be expecting similar dream-like perfection in their married life. And/or they may see the wedding as their ultimate "finish line", and haven't thought much about the rest of their life after that.

Or, a couple whose wedding was very elaborate and expensive goes into married life with deficits of both patience and money.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20763 on: August 20, 2018, 10:03:12 PM »

Are you so sure that humans can refuse treatment? If that really were a thing, then the health insurance data would look drastically different than it does. The % of costs paid in the last year of a persons life is really high. Culturally, at least in the US, we're terrified of death and will do anything not to die. Thus ensuring that we have a horrible death in the end.
The pressure to continue treatment when it's obviously futile is, from what I hear from medical friends, less often from the patient and more often from the family and medical professionals. Likewise pressure for voluntary euthanasia.

In some respects it's easier for us to bear our own suffering than watch a loved one or patient go through suffering. Live or die, we want to see their suffering end. 

lemanfan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20764 on: August 20, 2018, 11:18:16 PM »
The pressure to continue treatment when it's obviously futile is, from what I hear from medical friends, less often from the patient and more often from the family and medical professionals. Likewise pressure for voluntary euthanasia.

This is slightly foamy, but I really do recommend listening to this podcast on a related subject:

https://tim.blog/2016/04/14/bj-miller/

The interviewee has drawn conclusions about "quality of life" vs "quantity of life" after a carrer in hospice care.

Raenia

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20765 on: August 21, 2018, 05:44:54 AM »
Are you so sure that humans can refuse treatment? If that really were a thing, then the health insurance data would look drastically different than it does. The % of costs paid in the last year of a persons life is really high. Culturally, at least in the US, we're terrified of death and will do anything not to die. Thus ensuring that we have a horrible death in the end.

As others have said, the short answer is yes, we can.  My grandmother refused treatment that could have extended her life when she was diagnosed with cancer.  She went with an in-home nursing service and enough morphine to ease her last few months, and no one tried to pressure her otherwise.  It actually wound up being a better choice, as it was a much more peaceful end than going through aggressive treatment, plus the end was predictable enough that all of her children were able to be there with her, which they almost certainly could not have done if it had stretched out months or years.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20766 on: August 21, 2018, 06:13:31 AM »
Are you so sure that humans can refuse treatment? If that really were a thing, then the health insurance data would look drastically different than it does. The % of costs paid in the last year of a persons life is really high. Culturally, at least in the US, we're terrified of death and will do anything not to die. Thus ensuring that we have a horrible death in the end.

As others have said, the short answer is yes, we can.  My grandmother refused treatment that could have extended her life when she was diagnosed with cancer.  She went with an in-home nursing service and enough morphine to ease her last few months, and no one tried to pressure her otherwise.  It actually wound up being a better choice, as it was a much more peaceful end than going through aggressive treatment, plus the end was predictable enough that all of her children were able to be there with her, which they almost certainly could not have done if it had stretched out months or years.

Yes, it is a pity that so many people still get "life enhancing" treatment when all they get are a few weeks of incredible pain or month of total mental oblivion.

Writer Terry Pratchett is famous for being a loud spoken defenders of Orang-Utans and assisted suicide for the terminally sick (he had one strange form of Alzheimers himself, but in the end died "unsupported" on it).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Pratchett%3A_Choosing_to_Die

In one of his books he writes about a lot of assorted stuff of his life and also about a few confessions of Nurses who (illegally) did such things for the suffering and how much better it would be for everyone if there were orgenized rules for those who want to die.
You can find a lot of that in his witches.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/terry-pratchett-choosing-to-die/
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 06:18:55 AM by LennStar »

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20767 on: August 21, 2018, 09:56:28 AM »
Are you so sure that humans can refuse treatment? If that really were a thing, then the health insurance data would look drastically different than it does. The % of costs paid in the last year of a persons life is really high. Culturally, at least in the US, we're terrified of death and will do anything not to die. Thus ensuring that we have a horrible death in the end.

As others have said, the short answer is yes, we can.  My grandmother refused treatment that could have extended her life when she was diagnosed with cancer.  She went with an in-home nursing service and enough morphine to ease her last few months, and no one tried to pressure her otherwise.  It actually wound up being a better choice, as it was a much more peaceful end than going through aggressive treatment, plus the end was predictable enough that all of her children were able to be there with her, which they almost certainly could not have done if it had stretched out months or years.

Yes, you can refuse treatment, it's your body. Doctors need your consent to give you any kind of treatment. Sometimes they will push you in what they think is the "right direction" though.

I know, because I am currently choosing a certain treatment for a condition that my doctor describes as sub-optimal. I have chosen a less agressive treatment because it gives me a very high quality of life. I could get a more agressive treatment, but whether I'd end up better or worse than right now would be 50/50. As I'm very happy with my current quality of life, I see no point in going through more agressive treatment. My doctor is always talking about how much quality I could gain, but to me, what I could lose is much more important.

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20768 on: August 21, 2018, 11:20:42 AM »
Not totally sure if he went full hog and got that or just got the Lusso AWD.  He was commenting that he went on a long road trip down to Dusty (you know where that is, neighbor of mine) and the thing had some serious hunker down mode that meant he barely had to pay attention while it hugged the curves of the Palouse.  Sounded like a very fun ride except for the drag created by the payment book flapping the breeze behind him ;-)

Wtf is a hunker down mode?
I assume he was referring to some kind of sport mode.  Not familiar with the Alfa but most higher end vehicles have semi active or active dampers with tunes that can completely change the character of the vehicle.
Apparently the dynamic mode on the Alfa Romeo Stelvio makes a very noticeable difference and makes it the best handling SUV ever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwaAfpo9cvs&t=16m15s

fuzzy math

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20769 on: August 21, 2018, 04:59:11 PM »
Coworker totaled their vehicle (directly related to stress due to spendy pants ridiculous life choices *not alcohol*) and went out new vehicle shopping the other day. "subarus are so basic"


Other coworker, upon getting off work.  "there's a $5 jewelry sale in the lobby!"  *runs off*

Neither of my coworkers are ever going to retire.

Apples

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20770 on: August 22, 2018, 01:57:06 PM »
... but how do I point her to the right path without telling her that her plans tantamount to magical thinking? Even though we don't have much in common, she's a sweet person, and I don't think that she has anyone else in her life to point her on a less destructive path. What to do?
I'm not very good at this, but I've seen others employ this method to great effect:  ask questions.  Don't (outwardly) judge them or say that they're in dreamland.  Ask the questions that will force them to actually think through their future.  Freedomin5 is on the right track--ask what plan B is.  Ask how much it'll cost to live in her new place.  Ask what kind of jobs are available there.  Ask how she sees her life in 5 years.  Ask the "what if" questions.  Ask her what makes her think the VA will reconsider the previously-denied claim.  Ask her what her actual spending is (does she even know?).

This is what I do.  It allows you to keep the relationship and also try to point out flaws in the plan without being a Debbie Downer or Too Serious or You Don't Have Faith In Me, Don't You Want Me To Succeed person.  I put on the mindset of genuinely curious, thinking they must have info they're not sharing that would make this harebrained idea actually work, and I'll just ask eager questions until we get there.  Usually the other person says "i don't know" a few times or talks themselves into a corner and changes the subject.  This works for MLM idea, house rehabbing ideas from a SIL and her bf that have very little experience (oh, that may have gotten specific...), people telling me about onions on their kid's feet will remove heavy metals from their bodies (that's actually happened), and Coworkers who just don't get it.  The main objective is to keep your tone light, conversational, enthused, interested, etc.  Don't get pointed, don't get judgey sounding, keep it very conversational and play 20 questions until the other person gives up. 

frugalfoothills

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20771 on: August 23, 2018, 08:42:15 AM »
Conversation with a coworker (age: 50) just now:

Him: "You're a lake person, you'll appreciate this. We got one of those mailer things this weekend advertising lots for sale on Lake X (about an hour away from us."

Me: "Oh yeah cool, I get those all the time:

Him: "Yeah so wife and I talked about it and we are going to go up and see it this weekend, and as long as we like it, we are going for it. We will be the proud owners of 7 acres of lakefront property!!"

Me: "Wow 7 acres, that's a lot. No house or dock on it?"

Him: "No just the lot, but we can build a house on it later. We talked about it and I think it makes the most sense to just cash out my 401k to pay for this instead of financing it."

Me: "............................................................ the whole thing?"

Him: "Yeah but I figure I can just max my contributions for the next few years and catch back up tax free!"

Me: "........................................................................................"

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20772 on: August 23, 2018, 08:48:13 AM »
Conversation with a coworker (age: 50) just now:

Him: "You're a lake person, you'll appreciate this. We got one of those mailer things this weekend advertising lots for sale on Lake X (about an hour away from us."

Me: "Oh yeah cool, I get those all the time:

Him: "Yeah so wife and I talked about it and we are going to go up and see it this weekend, and as long as we like it, we are going for it. We will be the proud owners of 7 acres of lakefront property!!"

Me: "Wow 7 acres, that's a lot. No house or dock on it?"

Him: "No just the lot, but we can build a house on it later. We talked about it and I think it makes the most sense to just cash out my 401k to pay for this instead of financing it."

Me: "............................................................ the whole thing?"

Him: "Yeah but I figure I can just max my contributions for the next few years and catch back up tax free!"

Me: "........................................................................................"

It's the perfect plan! Cash out the 401k, use the next* several years to catch up, then cash out again to build the lake house!

/s

*Obviously they won't be able to max it out next year, because they'll be paying taxes on the 401k withdrawal, but after that, it's a great plan!

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20773 on: August 23, 2018, 08:51:42 AM »
Him: "We talked about it and I think it makes the most sense to just cash out my 401k to pay for this instead of financing it."

boarder42 would short circuit. That's a terrible plan!

cloudsail

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20774 on: August 23, 2018, 08:20:49 PM »
Uhhhh..... how much do the lots cost?

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20775 on: August 23, 2018, 08:43:37 PM »
What does one do with an undeveloped lakefront lot? Camp?

Mesmoiselle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20776 on: August 23, 2018, 09:21:51 PM »
Patient chatting with guests mentions tactics to hide receipts from the Pawn Shop from a family member who is handling her errands on her behalf while in the hospital. Patient is over 60 years old and Iím kinda thrown mentally by this- but hey, maybe they've hit hard times or something. Then patient shares one of the guests is their best friend and how much they LOVE-TO-SHOP and do so every week.

@_@

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20777 on: August 23, 2018, 10:28:23 PM »
What does one do with an undeveloped lakefront lot? Camp?

Camp, tiny house, or, ya know develop it

or just hope for land appreciation

I'd love an undeveloped lakefront lot, but I'm not gonna cash out my 401k for one

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20778 on: August 24, 2018, 12:24:29 PM »
Overheard at work by DH. The cook working in the caferaria at work is a Greek. In Norway salaries are a LOT higher than in Greece. The cook was planning to move back to Greece next year. Someone asked him if he would be able to afford a nice house there. Turns out the cook already purchased a 14! bedroom house in Greece and is in the process of renting out rooms to tourists. Next year he is planning to retire from his job as a cook and going to live in the 14 bedroom house, while renting out the rooms in the summer. :-)

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20779 on: August 24, 2018, 01:47:13 PM »
Overheard at work by DH. The cook working in the caferaria at work is a Greek. In Norway salaries are a LOT higher than in Greece. The cook was planning to move back to Greece next year. Someone asked him if he would be able to afford a nice house there. Turns out the cook already purchased a 14! bedroom house in Greece and is in the process of renting out rooms to tourists. Next year he is planning to retire from his job as a cook and going to live in the 14 bedroom house, while renting out the rooms in the summer. :-)
How dare you post such a story here! :P  I think the thread you're looking for is this one, where we share anti-anti-mustachian stories.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20780 on: August 24, 2018, 04:06:11 PM »
What does one do with an undeveloped lakefront lot? Camp?

Camp, tiny house, or, ya know develop it

or just hope for land appreciation

I'd love an undeveloped lakefront lot, but I'm not gonna cash out my 401k for one
We got a mailer for several acres of lakefront property on the lake where my husband's family owns a camp.  Only $1.6 million for 20 acres of undeveloped...swamp land.  Seriously, I looked at the map and it's that "spot" right across the lake that is basically just swamp.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20781 on: August 24, 2018, 06:15:58 PM »
What does one do with an undeveloped lakefront lot? Camp?

Camp, tiny house, or, ya know develop it

or just hope for land appreciation

I'd love an undeveloped lakefront lot, but I'm not gonna cash out my 401k for one
We got a mailer for several acres of lakefront property on the lake where my husband's family owns a camp.  Only $1.6 million for 20 acres of undeveloped...swamp land.  Seriously, I looked at the map and it's that "spot" right across the lake that is basically just swamp.

Grub farm?

ms

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20782 on: August 24, 2018, 08:20:01 PM »
Our boss today discussing with a coworker whether to move from Rogers to Bell:

"You just have to phone them and tell them you're leaving - I have 4 cell phones, the internet, home phone and cable with them - one time they reduced my monthly bill be $200!"

SunnyDays

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20783 on: August 25, 2018, 11:05:24 AM »









[/quote]
We got a mailer for several acres of lakefront property on the lake where my husband's family owns a camp.  Only $1.6 million for 20 acres of undeveloped...swamp land.  Seriously, I looked at the map and it's that "spot" right across the lake that is basically just swamp.
[/quote]

Well, the answer here is obvious - drain the swamp, haha

Mesmoiselle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20784 on: August 26, 2018, 06:19:32 PM »
I keep in touch with an Old Coworker in Same Field. Discussion we just had on Facebook.

Her: How are you doing?
Me: May get an extension, but I need to see a contract by the end of the week. I've been putting $1000-$1200/week into my 401k. Just need 6 more weeks to reach the federally allowed max.
Her: Hopefully you'll be set for retirement. You need a break for sure, hard to be away from your family.
Me: I'd have to put another 2 years of Max 401k and IRA for my retirement to be set.
Her: You got shit figured out for sure. I'd say I envy you but I like my money now. Well, I do envy you, but I don't know where I'm going to be at retirement age. Probably dead lol
Me: I'm still getting $800 weekly. Once I reach the max, I can't put in any more. o_O so only 16 weeks a year I have to live on $3200 a month. Hardly living like a poor person. And it's not likely you will be dead before 70 sans an unfortunate major life event.
Her: That's awesome, I wish I had your will power. . I hope not [dying before 70]. but who knows, my lungs may not make it [moderate smoker].  I'm enjoying each day as if I'm going to die tomorrow from now on. I just want to live and enjoy life.
Me: I really don't think that living on $3200/month for 16 weeks isn't living and enjoying life. My husband just had a ten day vacation with me. He had to buy plane tickets for that. We ate out every day and rented a bunch of movies, visited family. Have plans to stay at a real nice Airbnb in Chicago for a symposium, also going to eat out and go to a live baseball game while we're there. I'm definitely living life! :) You can do both; save for your 60s and spend a couple k every month.
Her: I know I need to save for sure. [old age/retirement] is coming sooner or later. I've got to go in to Olive Garden, talk to you later!

All the bolded was bolded by me. I just shake my head in wide eyed what-the-fuck. How much will power do you need to live on $3200 a month? She's 40 and lets her alcoholic deadbeat husband (her words) steal all her money. So I think she just plans to spend it before he can, even thought she declared nearly the first day we met in May 2018 that she'd divorce him by July. :/

This is the sort of job where Net is $1700 or more a week if you aren't saving anything or paying for insurance.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 06:26:20 PM by Mesmoiselle »

hettie1

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20785 on: August 27, 2018, 02:38:44 PM »
One of my co-workers just told us about his new purchase.  Both CW1 and CW2 are managers who definitely make at least low-mid 6-figure salaries

CW1: I just got new siding for my house! 
CW2: wow, how did you afford that?
CW1: Oh, I took out a HELOC.  And I got a few credit cards that have 0 interest for 12-months.
CW2: Nice, that's smart
CW1: yeah, I figure I can pay a little on the HELOC now and then start paying the credit cards off when interest kicks in.  Oh, and did I tell you I got new 65in TV's?  The 55 inch ones seemed a little small so figured I should upgrade.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20786 on: August 27, 2018, 05:37:37 PM »
Oh, and did I tell you I got new 65in TV's?  The 55 inch ones seemed a little small so figured I should upgrade.

Seriously...living with only a 55 inch TV? That's pretty much the electronic equivalent of living without indoor plumbing. A must-have upgrade.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20787 on: August 28, 2018, 02:07:38 AM »
Oh, and did I tell you I got new 65in TV's?  The 55 inch ones seemed a little small so figured I should upgrade.

Seriously...living with only a 55 inch TV? That's pretty much the electronic equivalent of living without indoor plumbing. A must-have upgrade.

Whats my 40 inch (or even smaller) one then, that I got "gifted"? Did someone gift me an indoor shit pit?

onlykelsey

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20788 on: August 28, 2018, 06:56:16 AM »
I was going to comment on what a generous gift that was, but then I looked up TV prices.  They are so much cheaper than when I was a teenager!

Still generous, but wow.
Oh, and did I tell you I got new 65in TV's?  The 55 inch ones seemed a little small so figured I should upgrade.

Seriously...living with only a 55 inch TV? That's pretty much the electronic equivalent of living without indoor plumbing. A must-have upgrade.

Whats my 40 inch (or even smaller) one then, that I got "gifted"? Did someone gift me an indoor shit pit?

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20789 on: August 28, 2018, 07:36:14 AM »
Oh, and did I tell you I got new 65in TV's?  The 55 inch ones seemed a little small so figured I should upgrade.

Seriously...living with only a 55 inch TV? That's pretty much the electronic equivalent of living without indoor plumbing. A must-have upgrade.

Whats my 40 inch (or even smaller) one then, that I got "gifted"? Did someone gift me an indoor shit pit?

A 40" is now considered portable or pocket sized in 2018.

Was walking my dog one evening and the neighbors must have rearranged their den b/c now the TV screen is visible through the windows. Its wall to wall TV! No idea what that size would be. We're still wearing out our 42" TV.

Cali

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20790 on: August 28, 2018, 08:00:51 AM »
Went out for drinks with friends from work for the first time ever. We went to a dive bar at Happy Hour which fits my budget well.

Coworker 1- daughter is fending for herself at college I can’t help her with $ (she’ll be a freshman at a state school this year)

Coworker 2- Did your bankruptcy help her get student loans?

Coworker 1- Not sure. I’m just trying to decide where I want to be now. I kind of regret putting down the downpayment on the Tesla. *turns to me* Hey you want to buy a Tesla?

Me: No thanks, I’m good with my little Civic.

Turns out bankruptcy was 2 years ago and she definitely can’t afford a Tesla.


LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20791 on: August 28, 2018, 08:20:59 AM »
Went out for drinks with friends from work for the first time ever. We went to a dive bar at Happy Hour which fits my budget well.

Coworker 1- daughter is fending for herself at college I canít help her with $ (sheíll be a freshman at a state school this year)

Coworker 2- Did your bankruptcy help her get student loans?

Coworker 1- Not sure. Iím just trying to decide where I want to be now. I kind of regret putting down the downpayment on the Tesla. *turns to me* Hey you want to buy a Tesla?

Me: No thanks, Iím good with my little Civic.

Turns out bankruptcy was 2 years ago and she definitely canít afford a Tesla.

2 years ago?

Wouldn't something as expensive as a Tesla be confiscated then anyway to pay? Or is the 2 years the time after the "you have to pay what you can" (in Germany 7 years I think)

Cali

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20792 on: August 28, 2018, 09:37:57 AM »
She put down money to join the waiting list for a new car. I don’t know what their contracts are like but I assume she can cancel and lose the deposit. That’s what she should do but she sounds like one of those people who doesn’t want to burn $1-$3K cancel the contract and lose her deposit and will instead pay $35K+ on a car she can’t afford.

I have no idea how Tesla accepted her with a bankruptcy on her record. It’s 7 years here in the U.S. too. Maybe they don’t do background checks on deposits and figure if you can’t qualify for the car the deposit is free money for them.

I’ve worked with her for 2 years and would never have guessed she was this financially foolish.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20793 on: August 28, 2018, 09:47:30 AM »
AFAIK Tesla is more than happy to take the $1k deposit. Anyone that ponies up can cancel for a refund up until the moment your car goes into production (when you're turn is coming up they'll ask for what specs you want and send you a final bill).

My guess is that the OP's coworker put the $1k on her card and Tesla is holding it as a deposit/interest free loan and that her credit rating will come up when Tesla contacts her for her final order.

gaja

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20794 on: August 28, 2018, 09:54:09 AM »
She put down money to join the waiting list for a new car. I donít know what their contracts are like but I assume she can cancel and lose the deposit. Thatís what she should do but she sounds like one of those people who doesnít want to burn $1-$3K cancel the contract and lose her deposit and will instead pay $35K+ on a car she canít afford.

I have no idea how Tesla accepted her with a bankruptcy on her record. Itís 7 years here in the U.S. too. Maybe they donít do background checks on deposits and figure if you canít qualify for the car the deposit is free money for them.

Iíve worked with her for 2 years and would never have guessed she was this financially foolish.
Looks like it depends on when she got in line: https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-model-3-deposit-configurator/

fattest_foot

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20795 on: August 30, 2018, 08:09:04 AM »
One of my coworkers was in a little bit late this morning, because she was up late last night "pre-cleaning" before her cleaner came today. I guess the house was such a mess that she needed to pick up some before the cleaner got there.

My two coworkers were discussing this, and she mentioned that she pays $60 every other week for her cleaner. The other coworker says that she has a team of 3 people that cleans for her. They have a "super cool" backpack vacuum thing as well as some propriety cleaners that don't smell like cleaners, which is apparently the best thing ever. Price tag? $180 every other week.

We all make about $80k a year and most of the houses in this town are no bigger than 2000 square feet, to give a point of reference.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 08:12:50 AM by fattest_foot »

ixtap

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20796 on: August 30, 2018, 08:48:54 AM »
One of my coworkers was in a little bit late this morning, because she was up late last night "pre-cleaning" before her cleaner came today. I guess the house was such a mess that she needed to pick up some before the cleaner got there.

My two coworkers were discussing this, and she mentioned that she pays $60 every other week for her cleaner. The other coworker says that she has a team of 3 people that cleans for her. They have a "super cool" backpack vacuum thing as well as some propriety cleaners that don't smell like cleaners, which is apparently the best thing ever. Price tag? $180 every other week.

We all make about $80k a year and most of the houses in this town are no bigger than 2000 square feet, to give a point of reference.

Are they married to someone with similar salaries? Real cleaning (the vacuuming and mopping, as opposed to just finding a place for things) is really stressful for me and I can imagine it is even more so when someone has kids. If I were working the same kind of hours my husband does, we would very much be paying for this service.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20797 on: August 30, 2018, 08:55:28 AM »
One of my coworkers was in a little bit late this morning, because she was up late last night "pre-cleaning" before her cleaner came today. I guess the house was such a mess that she needed to pick up some before the cleaner got there.

My two coworkers were discussing this, and she mentioned that she pays $60 every other week for her cleaner. The other coworker says that she has a team of 3 people that cleans for her. They have a "super cool" backpack vacuum thing as well as some propriety cleaners that don't smell like cleaners, which is apparently the best thing ever. Price tag? $180 every other week.

We all make about $80k a year and most of the houses in this town are no bigger than 2000 square feet, to give a point of reference.

Are they married to someone with similar salaries? Real cleaning (the vacuuming and mopping, as opposed to just finding a place for things) is really stressful for me and I can imagine it is even more so when someone has kids. If I were working the same kind of hours my husband does, we would very much be paying for this service.

And most people have to "pre-clean" for their cleaners. Because cleaners don't put stuff away. So you need to tidy so they can do the dusting, mopping, vacuuming, and scrubbing.

We have someone come in twice a year. I just have zero interest in taking down my blinds and scrubbing them. While they are there they do all the bathrooms really well, they do all the baseboards, they vacuum, mop and dust.
I clean on the weekends- constant decluttering, putting things away, vacuuming, or as I notice it needed (sweeping the kitchen nearly daily) - but my husband and I both work 50+ hours a week, and I'm going to school part time. Cleaning just isn't high on the priority list, I'd rather play with my daughter. 

At $80k, you're a high enough earner to pay for a cleaning person. $60 a visit is pretty cheap for 3 people to come in.

The issue comes if she's paying for a cleaner, eating all her meals out, getting regular manicures and pedicures, having monthly clothes rentals, leasing a new car every year... 
At $80k, you can certainly have nice things, you just can't have EVERYTHING.

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20798 on: August 30, 2018, 10:14:27 AM »
One of my coworkers was in a little bit late this morning, because she was up late last night "pre-cleaning" before her cleaner came today. I guess the house was such a mess that she needed to pick up some before the cleaner got there.

My two coworkers were discussing this, and she mentioned that she pays $60 every other week for her cleaner. The other coworker says that she has a team of 3 people that cleans for her. They have a "super cool" backpack vacuum thing as well as some propriety cleaners that don't smell like cleaners, which is apparently the best thing ever. Price tag? $180 every other week.

We all make about $80k a year and most of the houses in this town are no bigger than 2000 square feet, to give a point of reference.

Are they married to someone with similar salaries? Real cleaning (the vacuuming and mopping, as opposed to just finding a place for things) is really stressful for me and I can imagine it is even more so when someone has kids. If I were working the same kind of hours my husband does, we would very much be paying for this service.

And most people have to "pre-clean" for their cleaners. Because cleaners don't put stuff away. So you need to tidy so they can do the dusting, mopping, vacuuming, and scrubbing.

We have someone come in twice a year. I just have zero interest in taking down my blinds and scrubbing them. While they are there they do all the bathrooms really well, they do all the baseboards, they vacuum, mop and dust.
I clean on the weekends- constant decluttering, putting things away, vacuuming, or as I notice it needed (sweeping the kitchen nearly daily) - but my husband and I both work 50+ hours a week, and I'm going to school part time. Cleaning just isn't high on the priority list, I'd rather play with my daughter. 

At $80k, you're a high enough earner to pay for a cleaning person. $60 a visit is pretty cheap for 3 people to come in.

The issue comes if she's paying for a cleaner, eating all her meals out, getting regular manicures and pedicures, having monthly clothes rentals, leasing a new car every year... 
At $80k, you can certainly have nice things, you just can't have EVERYTHING.

Honestly, if your life is too crazy to do basic household maintenance, then something's wrong in your life. House too big, too many activities, someone's not pulling their weight, too much stuff making a mess, etc. There is value in taking a giant step back and reconsidering these types of things.

fattest_foot

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20799 on: August 30, 2018, 10:36:59 AM »
At $80k, you're a high enough earner to pay for a cleaning person. $60 a visit is pretty cheap for 3 people to come in.

Maybe my post was unclear, but both coworkers had cleaners. CW1 has a single cleaner come every other week for $60. CW2 has three cleaners come every other week for $180.

CW1 is actually in a good financial situation. Last week we were actually having the discussion about how when you say "max out 401k" people misunderstand and think you're talking about the match. Her and her husband both make similar salaries, plus he's got a military retirement. She does spend a lot of money on superfluous stuff like hair dye every few weeks and manicures, but they make a decent living and save a LOT.

CW2 is a widow with two teenagers. She has social security coming in from her husband's death, and probably a small life insurance nest egg, but I can tell she's siphoning off money in a hurry (for instance, a few months ago she was lamenting her $250 a month cable bill).