Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8482000 times)

homehandymum

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5950 on: December 16, 2014, 01:31:43 PM »
I've bolded what I think might be the important bit, here.  She might not know about living in a city with a car, but she seems to be doing the responsible thing regarding her lifestyle.  Looks more like long-term thinking.  It will probably also give her a chance to find out what she really needs.

It seems to me that long-term thinking would be focused on maximizing earning potential, especially when in the short term, her job opportunity is seasonal and coming to an end.
Agreed, but given that she's planning a move and recently out of college, she's likely minimizing expenses while preparing for that.  The seasonal job highlights that.  I just don't think that saving money is something to criticize, in the context of this forum.  I agree with others that she's naive about needing a car, but otherwise, there are lots of ways to make money on a short term basis and if you know you're moving, tying yourself up in a permanent position doesn't help anyone.

As someone who was a career 'groundbreaker' in my family (finished high school was the groundbreaking bit, let alone the going to university and getting a post-grad), I can say it if f*cking hard to make good decisions.  You don't know what you don't know, and if no-one in your family can slip you that information in a way that makes real, believable sense to your young brain, then it doesn't happen.

There are plenty of things that I can look back and say "huh, would have done that differently", but you just do the best you can with what you've got.

AlanStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5951 on: December 16, 2014, 02:27:20 PM »
Two CWs, both want puppies. I'm all for rescue. We're in Chicago, Illinois.
...
Another one, visiting from Texas office (when there's staff with nothing at all to do in the Chicago office), leaving today after a week here:
CW1: My flight doesn't leave until 9pm.
Me: Can you change it?
CW1: I don't know. It's ok.
CW2: How are you getting to the airport?
CW1: I don't want to take the Blue Line [inexpensive transit which goes directly to the airport], I'm going to take a cab.
CW2: I understand, a cab is safer.
Me: ......


Oh dear lord, I was under the impression that my coworker's were semi-decent with money.

I'd take a cab too if I was traveling on business.  Flying is enough of an ordeal I think it's fair for my employer to minimize inconvenience

Mass transit can be very intimidating for those who have not used it much, as can plain old walking.  With my phone or someone to read a paper map I would not think twice about driving anywhere-anytime in the right side of the road world on a moments notice in most any car.  Few months ago I spent probably 45min online working out how to take the subway from down town DC to National, subways are just something I have not done much of.  Also had to make a cheat sheet.  Here it was 45$ vs 4$ of my own money so clearly I put in the time.


Albert

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5952 on: December 16, 2014, 02:36:45 PM »

Mass transit can be very intimidating for those who have not used it much, as can plain old walking.  With my phone or someone to read a paper map I would not think twice about driving anywhere-anytime in the right side of the road world on a moments notice in most any car.  Few months ago I spent probably 45min online working out how to take the subway from down town DC to National, subways are just something I have not done much of.  Also had to make a cheat sheet.  Here it was 45$ vs 4$ of my own money so clearly I put in the time.

Wow. Using subways is the easiest thing in the world as long as you understand the language and even without if there are signs in latin letters. Buses tend to be a lot more complicated, particularly for a first time visitor.

solon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5953 on: December 16, 2014, 02:42:57 PM »
Hopefully they don't take the MS approach.  We know your car was functioning just fine, but we totally changed the OS and it's not compatible with your current car.  Also you owe us more money.  Also we arbitrarily changed the location of every setting you have memorized, even though it offers no advantage to do so, and no you don't have the option to customize it like it was before.  Also we added tons of bugs to make it significantly less stable.  We found 1 security hole too, so instead of fixing it we changed the whole OS to one with 10 security holes.  Also you owe us more money.

NO! No Mac vs. PC wars! What is this, 2004?

(Besides that, you're wrong.)

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5954 on: December 16, 2014, 02:44:12 PM »

Mass transit can be very intimidating for those who have not used it much, as can plain old walking.  With my phone or someone to read a paper map I would not think twice about driving anywhere-anytime in the right side of the road world on a moments notice in most any car.  Few months ago I spent probably 45min online working out how to take the subway from down town DC to National, subways are just something I have not done much of.  Also had to make a cheat sheet.  Here it was 45$ vs 4$ of my own money so clearly I put in the time.

Wow. Using subways is the easiest thing in the world as long as you understand the language and even without if there are signs in latin letters. Buses tend to be a lot more complicated, particularly for a first time visitor.

Yeah I know transit here well, which is why I would drive or shuttle since I know how much transit will add to my travel time and how hard it can be to maneuver bags out of a crowded car

galliver

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5955 on: December 16, 2014, 04:22:47 PM »

Mass transit can be very intimidating for those who have not used it much, as can plain old walking.  With my phone or someone to read a paper map I would not think twice about driving anywhere-anytime in the right side of the road world on a moments notice in most any car.  Few months ago I spent probably 45min online working out how to take the subway from down town DC to National, subways are just something I have not done much of.  Also had to make a cheat sheet.  Here it was 45$ vs 4$ of my own money so clearly I put in the time.

Wow. Using subways is the easiest thing in the world as long as you understand the language and even without if there are signs in latin letters. Buses tend to be a lot more complicated, particularly for a first time visitor.

Yeah I know transit here well, which is why I would drive or shuttle since I know how much transit will add to my travel time and how hard it can be to maneuver bags out of a crowded car

I come from a country where most people rely on PT and don't have a car. Nonetheless, I had to spend like 30 mins+ over Thanksgiving convincing my dad that it would be quite simple (and cheap) to get to the airport via PT (they were headed out for a 5 day visit to a friend the next week). It's a 1-mi walk to the station and then 2 trains (one transfer). Easy peasy, less than an hour all told (less than driving in rush hour would have been, plus the parking savings!). He thought it would be This Huge Deal. I guess it's basically force of habit. My dad hasn't really taken transit since we moved to the US 20 years ago. Personally, I find it This Huge Deal every time I have to take the car for a day by myself, like if I have a doctor's appt or errands to run. I enjoy going out to the mountains/hiking, taking roadtrips, I like that it saves us time on errands; but I hate personally dealing with driving and parking. I genuinely prefer the bus or biking.

I realize it's a regional thing (rural areas don't have PT to speak of) but I really thing it's a shame that some people never get that experience, that it's never normalized, and they end up being irrationally afraid of it. Most fears (getting lost, being late) can be mitigated with planning or a backup plan (e.g. taxi). Also helps to talk to the drivers; if you're going somewhere new, most I have met will tell you if you're going the right direction and even tell you when your stop is coming up.

AlanStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5956 on: December 16, 2014, 06:26:54 PM »

Mass transit can be very intimidating for those
...
Here it was 45$ vs 4$ of my own money so clearly I put in the time.

Wow. Using subways is the easiest thing in the world as long as you understand the language and even without if there are signs in latin letters. Buses tend to be a lot more complicated, particularly for a first time visitor.

Yeah I know transit here well, which is why I would drive or shuttle since I know how much transit will add to my travel time and how hard it can be to maneuver bags out of a crowded car

I come from a country where
...
 most I have met will tell you if you're going the right direction and even tell you when your stop is coming up.

Like many things, using public transit is all about exercising muscles.

Dr. Doom

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5957 on: December 16, 2014, 07:26:44 PM »
Today I'm at work and get called into someone else's office to take a look at a technical issue they're seeing on a mainframe.  (I'm in IT)

I bring my laptop to make it easier for me to troubleshoot whatever problem it is that they're seeing.  First thing out of CW's mouth was: "Every day it's something, isn't it?  I wish this job would calm down and get easier but it never does."  <I take this to be her polite way of saying:  I'm sick of my job.  This is consistent with her personality - she constantly whinges about how stressed out and busy she is.>

Anyway s, I place my laptop down on their desk, lid open.  I'd forgotten that I had a browser window open and guess what site's homepage I was on? 

CW:  Should I even ask what that is?  Mister Money's Mustache?
Me:  Money. Singular.  (I hurriedly close the browser window.)
CW:  What's that all about?
Me: Nothing.
CW: No, tell me.  I want to know.
Me:  All right.  In a nutshell, it's a site devoted to teaching people how to suck the maximum amount of joy out of life before croaking.
CW: Hm, that's weird.  Then why is "Money" in the title?  And what's up with the mustache?
Me:  Oh, that's because the way to be happier for most people is to save a lot of money so they can afford to stop working or move to a lower paying job that you like more. Most people aren't happy at work.  The mustache is a play on the word 'stash,' because you have to have a pile of dough in order to free yourself.
CW:  Don't tell me you're one of those frugal people.  I can't stand them.  They deprive themselves of the fun of life by not spending anything and then pretend like they deserve a medal for being freaks.
Me:  <Death stare.>

Next time this lady's problems are going to the bottom of my queue.

zataks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5958 on: December 16, 2014, 07:36:02 PM »
I didn't know we're getting medals for this! =)

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5959 on: December 16, 2014, 07:48:28 PM »
Today I'm at work and get called into someone else's office to take a look at a technical issue they're seeing on a mainframe.  (I'm in IT)

I bring my laptop to make it easier for me to troubleshoot whatever problem it is that they're seeing.  First thing out of CW's mouth was: "Every day it's something, isn't it?  I wish this job would calm down and get easier but it never does."  <I take this to be her polite way of saying:  I'm sick of my job.  This is consistent with her personality - she constantly whinges about how stressed out and busy she is.>

Anyway s, I place my laptop down on their desk, lid open.  I'd forgotten that I had a browser window open and guess what site's homepage I was on? 

CW:  Should I even ask what that is?  Mister Money's Mustache?
Me:  Money. Singular.  (I hurriedly close the browser window.)
CW:  What's that all about?
Me: Nothing.
CW: No, tell me.  I want to know.
Me:  All right.  In a nutshell, it's a site devoted to teaching people how to suck the maximum amount of joy out of life before croaking.
CW: Hm, that's weird.  Then why is "Money" in the title?  And what's up with the mustache?
Me:  Oh, that's because the way to be happier for most people is to save a lot of money so they can afford to stop working or move to a lower paying job that you like more. Most people aren't happy at work.  The mustache is a play on the word 'stash,' because you have to have a pile of dough in order to free yourself.
CW:  Don't tell me you're one of those frugal people.  I can't stand them.  They deprive themselves of the fun of life by not spending anything and then pretend like they deserve a medal for being freaks.
Me:  <Death stare.>

Next time this lady's problems are going to the bottom of my queue.

This is a nightmare scenario for me. Once a month I will come back from getting a cup of coffee to find the mmm site up, or a net worth spreadsheet, or a confidential piece of paper face up on my desk. I need to prepare myself for this conversation just in case. And also, be more careful when I leave my desk.

You handled it well doom.

HappierAtHome

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5960 on: December 16, 2014, 08:07:19 PM »
I didn't know we're getting medals for this! =)

I wonder how much the metal component of those medals will be worth if we melt them down? Should probably be part of the FIRE calculation.

Dr. Doom

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5961 on: December 16, 2014, 08:09:36 PM »
Thanks Cheddar.  Believe me, the mistake of having MMM up was not intentional - I do not advertise this part of me in the workplace and I'll be keeping a closer eye on this in the future.

I did more than stare at her, btw -- I ended up saying the blandly defusing phrase "To each his own" and just fixed her issue (which, it turned out, she had inadvertently caused herself by running a sloppy killall command on the server...   Hah!  Love it when I show a fellow techie that they shot themselves in the foot.  I know, I'm sick that way.)

All of that being said, if she came to me tomorrow and asked for more info, I'd do a total 180 and warmly engage her.  Just sort of doubt that's going to happen.  And if it did, I might come to this thread and delete posts so she wouldn't be able to figure out who I am.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5962 on: December 16, 2014, 08:16:47 PM »
CW:  Don't tell me you're one of those frugal people.  I can't stand them.  They deprive themselves of the fun of life by not spending anything and then pretend like they deserve a medal for being freaks.

Wow I'm not even sure if I could respond to that one.  Probably something like 'so you're happy with your financial situation and the degrees freedom you have in your life?'  Since most aren't maybe follow it up with 'then why would you look down on those that are?'  But in real-time I'd probably be dumbfounded.  I never think of things in the moment.

Dr. Doom

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5963 on: December 16, 2014, 08:37:43 PM »
I never think of things in the moment.

Same here.  I'm also very conflict-averse, and did my best to just let her surprisingly in-your-face remarks slide.  Really, I was shocked at the aggressiveness, overall. Usually people at work watch what they say so we can all get along, being that we're stuck together.

Although, now that I think about it, I've also observed this lady make "aggressive atheist" statements in the past (in quotes because I'm borrowing a phrase from a recent MMM forum thread) so maybe I shouldn't have been caught so off-guard -- she seems to have a poor verbal filter and a desire to get into it with people.

I bet that as a child she wouldn't have been able to wait a while in order to get two marshmallows instead of one.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 07:55:44 AM by Dr. Doom »

notquitefrugal

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5964 on: December 16, 2014, 09:05:23 PM »
It's that time of year again where people are discussing all the TVs and Xboxes and computers they're going to buy once they get their tax returns.  I have nothing to contribute to the conversation since I actually claim all my exemptions.

I will likely owe a few thousand dollars, and probably a penalty for underpayment of estimated taxes, on top of that, thanks to getting a better paying job and thus losing the Affordable Care Act advance premium tax credit I had planned on. It definitely works out for the better in the long run, though!

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5965 on: December 17, 2014, 07:25:51 AM »
I do real estate as a side job. We downsized and rented out our old place in late October, so I was our agent and earned a decent commission ($3k+). Since this was essentially play money and I didn't need it for anything, I asked to defer the commission till next year, for tax purposes.
Our office admin walked me through the fairly simple process of requesting this deferral, then tried to talk me out of it, because of Christmas! I insisted we were making enough and that stuff was all taken care of, but she had a hard time with it.
Even if I needed this money, I can't imagine being so strapped that I couldn't stretch for 60 days to earn a 40% return on it.

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5966 on: December 17, 2014, 07:31:41 AM »
I will likely owe a few thousand dollars, and probably a penalty for underpayment of estimated taxes, on top of that, thanks to getting a better paying job and thus losing the Affordable Care Act advance premium tax credit I had planned on. It definitely works out for the better in the long run, though!
If your tax liability goes up substantially from one year to the next, you're typically exempted from underpayment penalties (for the first year). The math is built into the system and I've seen it work - I had a layoff year where I got 100% of my withholding back, and the next year I grossed six figures and owed a few grand after rental and other business deductions. I had taken advantage of the situation to request 0 withholding from my primary job, and had only a little at my other job, but my penalties were zeroed out because of my previous year's zero liability.
This doesn't apply to *all* situations, obviously, but it does help in many cases.

Timmmy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5967 on: December 17, 2014, 07:40:09 AM »
I will likely owe a few thousand dollars, and probably a penalty for underpayment of estimated taxes, on top of that, thanks to getting a better paying job and thus losing the Affordable Care Act advance premium tax credit I had planned on. It definitely works out for the better in the long run, though!
If your tax liability goes up substantially from one year to the next, you're typically exempted from underpayment penalties (for the first year). The math is built into the system and I've seen it work - I had a layoff year where I got 100% of my withholding back, and the next year I grossed six figures and owed a few grand after rental and other business deductions. I had taken advantage of the situation to request 0 withholding from my primary job, and had only a little at my other job, but my penalties were zeroed out because of my previous year's zero liability.
This doesn't apply to *all* situations, obviously, but it does help in many cases.

You are correct.  Check out the link below that explains it briefly.

http://www.easyestimatedtaxes.com/estimated-tax-resources/safe-harbor-rule.html

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5968 on: December 17, 2014, 07:54:05 AM »
Hopefully they don't take the MS approach.  We know your car was functioning just fine, but we totally changed the OS and it's not compatible with your current car.  Also you owe us more money.  Also we arbitrarily changed the location of every setting you have memorized, even though it offers no advantage to do so, and no you don't have the option to customize it like it was before.  Also we added tons of bugs to make it significantly less stable.  We found 1 security hole too, so instead of fixing it we changed the whole OS to one with 10 security holes.  Also you owe us more money.

NO! No Mac vs. PC wars! What is this, 2004?

(Besides that, you're wrong.)

I hate macs.  PCs are superior in my opinion, I just hate MS and the way they operate and constantly force unnecessary upgrades into their OS and office.

infogoon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5969 on: December 17, 2014, 08:25:24 AM »
Hopefully they don't take the MS approach.  We know your car was functioning just fine, but we totally changed the OS and it's not compatible with your current car.  Also you owe us more money.  Also we arbitrarily changed the location of every setting you have memorized, even though it offers no advantage to do so, and no you don't have the option to customize it like it was before.  Also we added tons of bugs to make it significantly less stable.  We found 1 security hole too, so instead of fixing it we changed the whole OS to one with 10 security holes.  Also you owe us more money.

NO! No Mac vs. PC wars! What is this, 2004?

(Besides that, you're wrong.)

I hate macs.  PCs are superior in my opinion, I just hate MS and the way they operate and constantly force unnecessary upgrades into their OS and office.

"I'm a Mac."

"And I'm a PC!"

"And since most users spend 95% of their time in a web browser these days, it doesn't really matter."

auntie_betty

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5970 on: December 17, 2014, 08:36:18 AM »
CW: Yeah, my remortgage goes through today, just in time for Christmas so money to spend! Cash back (I assume she means equity release) and pay the same as before as the interest rate is lower. It's a no brainer.
Me: Yes, I suppose it is.

CW is a director earning $130-150k a year. I couldn't bring myself to say anything pithy. I'm sorry, I failed :(

LibrarIan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5971 on: December 17, 2014, 08:44:32 AM »
Was at a work lunch yesterday (company paid for it) with the six other people on my team. Lunch conversation turned to cars and then to paying for cars.

Coworker 1: We just had our second child, so now we have to get a van. We're going to have a car payment again.

Coworker 2: Oh, I don't need to have kids to buy new rides (laughs). I just bought [new pricey Lexus] and my payments are through the roof (laughs again)!

Coworker 3: I can top that. I gave my old car to my mom but I'm still paying it off. So I had to buy a new car. Two payments for me!

Me: *silence*

Le Barbu

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5972 on: December 17, 2014, 09:12:10 AM »
Was at a work lunch yesterday (company paid for it) with the six other people on my team. Lunch conversation turned to cars and then to paying for cars.

Coworker 1: We just had our second child, so now we have to get a van. We're going to have a car payment again.

Coworker 2: Oh, I don't need to have kids to buy new rides (laughs). I just bought [new pricey Lexus] and my payments are through the roof (laughs again)!

Coworker 3: I can top that. I gave my old car to my mom but I'm still paying it off. So I had to buy a new car. Two payments for me!

Me: *silence*

I think we are a bunch of MMM using *silence* as our contribution to CW's conversations since it's so often related to buying stuff of any kind

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5973 on: December 17, 2014, 09:20:38 AM »
I didn't know we're getting medals for this! =)

You have been awarded MMM gold -- it gives you access to the MMM lounge, the option to beta test new features, and increases your SWR by 5 basis points.

hdatontodo

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5974 on: December 17, 2014, 09:50:53 AM »
... I couldn't bring myself to say anything pithy. I'm sorry, I failed :(

Thats ok

What is it the Harley Davidson folks say? "If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand."

or Jay Leno telling a joke no one gets, and instead of explaining it just says "old joke" and moves on.

Maybe we need a 20 second elevator pitch like every $x you spend today is Y number of years you'll have to keep working or $Z you won't have in your retirement. I've heard Suzy Orman say something like taking a $10K european vacation takes $30K out of your retirement.

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5975 on: December 17, 2014, 10:01:20 AM »
Maybe we need a 20 second elevator pitch like every $x you spend today is Y number of years you'll have to keep working or $Z you won't have in your retirement. I've heard Suzy Orman say something like taking a $10K european vacation takes $30K out of your retirement.

Of course the numbers Y and Z here depend on the individual person's current expenses, income, savings (and/or debt), and how long they have until retirement...

hdatontodo

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5976 on: December 17, 2014, 10:09:16 AM »
Maybe we need a 20 second elevator pitch like every $x you spend today is Y number of years you'll have to keep working or $Z you won't have in your retirement. I've heard Suzy Orman say something like taking a $10K european vacation takes $30K out of your retirement.

Of course the numbers Y and Z here depend on the individual person's current expenses, income, savings (and/or debt), and how long they have until retirement...

Good point.

Also maybe we could tell someone that nets $100/day pay that that $400/month car payment could be 4 extra days they take off every month w/o pay.

sol

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5977 on: December 17, 2014, 11:58:17 AM »
Maybe we need a 20 second elevator pitch like every $x you spend today is Y number of years you'll have to keep working or $Z you won't have in your retirement.

Here's my early retirement elevator pitch:

Quote
How much are you saving for retirement?  For most people, every extra 1% they save cuts about two years off of their working career.  Would you take a 1% pay cut to get a two year paid vacation? How about a ten percent pay cut to get a twenty year paid vacation?

Of course that math only works for people who currently have very low savings rates, which is most people.  If they're already saving 50% then each additional 1% is only worth about six months.

jda1984

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5978 on: December 17, 2014, 12:27:05 PM »

Here's my early retirement elevator pitch:

Quote
How much are you saving for retirement?  For most people, every extra 1% they save cuts about two years off of their working career.  Would you take a 1% pay cut to get a two year paid vacation? How about a ten percent pay cut to get a twenty year paid vacation?


I like it sol!

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5979 on: December 17, 2014, 01:00:01 PM »
How much are you saving for retirement?  For most people, every extra 1% they save cuts about two years off of their working career.  Would you take a 1% pay cut to get a two year paid vacation? How about a ten percent pay cut to get a twenty year paid vacation?

Damn that's a punch to the gut

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5980 on: December 17, 2014, 01:34:51 PM »
I've heard Suzy Orman say something like taking a $10K european vacation takes $30K out of your retirement.

I should tell that to my BIL. maybe next time he'll get married when I get around to retiring. Selfish git going and getting hitched..

jinga nation

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5981 on: December 17, 2014, 02:43:35 PM »
CW (standing next to my table, speaking in a hushed voice): I'm gonna do what you did.
Me: What did I do?
CW: You sold your place (this is a townhouse I bought, cleaned up, rented out, and eventually sold due to progressively bad Nazi HOA)
Me: Yeah, but make sure you get a good price. Sell high, buy low.
CW: It's overseas, ya'know.
Me: Where?
CW (hushed): Dubai
Me: Oh boy! How are the prices?
CW (shakes his head): They're OK. But I'm going to cash out and buy something around here (Florida metro).
Me: You're a couple of years too late. 2010-2013 was buying season. 2014 prices went hot hot hot, ain't nothing nice to buy. Even shitholes have high prices. You won't make money on a flip. Ask Bob. (Bob is another co-worker with 15 years of RE renovating and flipping experience, a guy I consider a font of knowledge.) And if you do find something, start small, and in an area that you know. There's plenty of RE in the area you live.
CW: Yeah, maybe I'll buy a multi-family property.
Me: OK.... (turned around and sighed heavily). Mental facepalm.

thd7t

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5982 on: December 17, 2014, 02:49:12 PM »
Is the co-working thinking of flipping?  Buying a multifamily for rental doesn't sound like such a bad strategy.  Holding property in Dubai seems weird if you live in Florida, though.

jinga nation

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5983 on: December 17, 2014, 03:21:18 PM »
Is the co-working thinking of flipping?  Buying a multifamily for rental doesn't sound like such a bad strategy.  Holding property in Dubai seems weird if you live in Florida, though.

He's not sure. His story changes every time we talk: flipping, landlording, buying cash vs loan. Methinks Dubai was a condo he lived in when he worked there, but info from him is sketchy and sparse, not that I give a rat's ass.

He doesn't have any RE investing experience, but has been talking about this for 1+ year. Told him he can flip but start small and learn. But big boy wanna go big time first time, I guess after going to one-too-many BiggerPockets local meetups. That's a yarn for another time. Oh well... his money can go wherever he decides.

Grid

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5984 on: December 17, 2014, 05:01:34 PM »
Ok, so this person is not a coworker of mine, but a member of a group I attend regularly.

Them:  Honestly one of the smartest things I've heard of doing when you have an extra $50 is to buy a $50 grocery store gift card.  If, when you're going paycheck to paycheck, you have some extra cash on hand, it's a great idea.  Then you won't starve when you're strapped for cash.
Me (could not keep my mouth shut):  No, that is a ridiculous idea.  $50 as a specific grocery store gift card is much less useful than just having $50 to spend where you need it.
Them:  [changes topic]
Me:  :/

Me just now:  Maybe I was too harsh?

NoraLenderbee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5985 on: December 17, 2014, 05:07:54 PM »

Here's my early retirement elevator pitch:

Quote
How much are you saving for retirement?  For most people, every extra 1% they save cuts about two years off of their working career.  Would you take a 1% pay cut to get a two year paid vacation?


"Oh, I'd love to, but I need all my cash to pay my bills."

Quote
How about a ten percent pay cut to get a twenty year paid vacation?


"LOL, you kidder. I'll never be able to retire. So, about my new iPhone family plan . . ."

NoraLenderbee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5986 on: December 17, 2014, 05:14:36 PM »
Ok, so this person is not a coworker of mine, but a member of a group I attend regularly.

Them:  Honestly one of the smartest things I've heard of doing when you have an extra $50 is to buy a $50 grocery store gift card.  If, when you're going paycheck to paycheck, you have some extra cash on hand, it's a great idea.  Then you won't starve when you're strapped for cash.
Me (could not keep my mouth shut):  No, that is a ridiculous idea.  $50 as a specific grocery store gift card is much less useful than just having $50 to spend where you need it.
Them:  [changes topic]
Me:  :/

Me just now:  Maybe I was too harsh?

For people who always spend their whole paycheck or never know where their money goes, it's a method of forced savings--putting $50 aside in a form that they won't just blow. So it isn't a terrible idea, although a much better idea would be to stop living paycheck to paycheck.

Grid

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5987 on: December 17, 2014, 06:58:01 PM »
Ok, so this person is not a coworker of mine, but a member of a group I attend regularly.

Them:  Honestly one of the smartest things I've heard of doing when you have an extra $50 is to buy a $50 grocery store gift card.  If, when you're going paycheck to paycheck, you have some extra cash on hand, it's a great idea.  Then you won't starve when you're strapped for cash.
Me (could not keep my mouth shut):  No, that is a ridiculous idea.  $50 as a specific grocery store gift card is much less useful than just having $50 to spend where you need it.
Them:  [changes topic]
Me:  :/

Me just now:  Maybe I was too harsh?

For people who always spend their whole paycheck or never know where their money goes, it's a method of forced savings--putting $50 aside in a form that they won't just blow. So it isn't a terrible idea, although a much better idea would be to stop living paycheck to paycheck.

I completely agree.

notquitefrugal

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5988 on: December 17, 2014, 08:14:04 PM »
You are correct.  Check out the link below that explains it briefly.

Yes, you and others are correct. Unfortunately, I don't believe I qualify for the safe harbor, as my 2014 estimated taxes paid were lower than my 2013 taxes owed (I based the 2014 estimates on the premise that I would be receiving premium assistance for the full year). Also, the 2014 forms for the advance premium tax credit aren't finalized yet, so it's difficult to estimate how much I might owe.

It is also correct that I could have increased withholding for the last 1-2 pay periods of the year to eliminate any potential penalty. Again, the forms aren't finalized, so I can't be sure I would need to do that. I did pay some estimated taxes this year, so the penalty shouldn't be significant. I'll let the chips fall where they may and try not to be a complainypants about it. At any rate, it shouldn't be a problem in 2015.

notquitefrugal

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5989 on: December 17, 2014, 08:22:40 PM »
I hate macs.  PCs are superior in my opinion, I just hate MS and the way they operate and constantly force unnecessary upgrades into their OS and office.

I like my Macs and my iPad (and also my Android phone), but in my IT work, I see people chugging along on Windows XP and Office 2000/2003 quite frequently. Actually, I think the newer versions of Office with the ribbon are extremely annoying (although we use those at my current workplace). If you install the converter pack (and the security update for the converter pack, ugh...), those older versions of Office seem to work okay with the newer .docx/.xlsx/.pptx XML files. That said, when I install a newer version of Office, I typically change the settings so that it saves in the older format by default, for compatibility reasons.

Windows 7 was the last "good" release of Windows. Windows 8 is annoying. Vista was annoying. Before XP, Windows ME was annoying. It's like every other release of Windows is awful.

babysnowbyrd

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5990 on: December 17, 2014, 08:59:35 PM »
I have a older coworker who changed her hours to part-time. We have a lot of processes with lots of people involved from beginning to end, and this coworker is at the end of it, so any mistakes made earlier usually land on her and she has to research, call, email, confront, beg, etc to get things fixed before she can actually do her job.

She doesn't "act" busy (as discussed on another forum topic), she is genuinely working hard the whole day. She is a perfectionist and takes things to heart way too often. I brought her some more paperwork during an especially busy time and almost brought her to tears placing it on her desk.

At least once a week she says "I'm going to get fired over this"(for something she can't fix), or when she's frustrated off-handedly says that she's going to quit.  She never does.

But what kills me is that she can!

Her husband works and makes much more than she does. They don't NEED her income for anything! Not even to pay for unnecessary status-consumption!

Even worse, her husband doesn't actually need to work either! He qualifies already for his company's retirement package. They could retire RIGHT NOW.

I just don't get it. The job sucks. And yet she lets a new manager come in and tell her she needs to go back to full-time. She should be writing a story on the "Epic FU Stories" thread but sadly, she may be here until she dies.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5991 on: December 18, 2014, 02:28:46 AM »
Windows 7 was the last "good" release of Windows. Windows 8 is annoying. Vista was annoying. Before XP, Windows ME was annoying. It's like every other release of Windows is awful.

Of course that is so. In one version they change something bigger (because you have to change something if you want to sell a new software) and the next version they fix all the BS they produced the version before. Then they again change something. And so on.
Like Intels tick-tack: smaller CPU-process, then make it better, smaller process, make it better...

GrayGhost

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5992 on: December 18, 2014, 03:05:00 AM »
Of course that math only works for people who currently have very low savings rates, which is most people.  If they're already saving 50% then each additional 1% is only worth about six months.

Yeah, but it's a fun challenge to try to save more money in this manner. It's just like what happens to successful and wealthy RE players--they don't need to make more millions, they do it because it's fun and a challenge.

I'm listing to some coworkers right now talk about fancy restaurants and their discussing what they paid.

Employee1:  I looked at the menu and saw wine paring for $220 and thought well sure for $20 bucks more we can have some wine with our meals.  But then when I got the check it was $220 just for the wine pairing and did not include the $200 meal.

Employee2:  For two people at French Laundry, without wine it was about $750.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-french-laundry-yountville-2

I eating my non-fancy mixed nuts and almost chocked on an almond when I heard that one meal for two cost half my rent or food for a month for a family of 4.

That's impressive. We are having trouble justifying a Sunday brunch which is ~$35 a person (includes crab, so it's not that exorbitant, just way more than I'm used to spending on a brunch). Just thinking of spending that much blows my mind.

See, if I wanted to eat fancy and expensive French food, I'd make it myself. It'd be a learning experience, and while it might not be quite as good as what a professional chef can do, it'd be pretty good, and I'd have the foundation (skills, tools) to do it a lot better the next time around.

Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5993 on: December 18, 2014, 05:25:34 AM »
Of course that math only works for people who currently have very low savings rates, which is most people.  If they're already saving 50% then each additional 1% is only worth about six months.

Yeah, but it's a fun challenge to try to save more money in this manner. It's just like what happens to successful and wealthy RE players--they don't need to make more millions, they do it because it's fun and a challenge.

I'm listing to some coworkers right now talk about fancy restaurants and their discussing what they paid.

Employee1:  I looked at the menu and saw wine paring for $220 and thought well sure for $20 bucks more we can have some wine with our meals.  But then when I got the check it was $220 just for the wine pairing and did not include the $200 meal.

Employee2:  For two people at French Laundry, without wine it was about $750.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-french-laundry-yountville-2

I eating my non-fancy mixed nuts and almost chocked on an almond when I heard that one meal for two cost half my rent or food for a month for a family of 4.

That's impressive. We are having trouble justifying a Sunday brunch which is ~$35 a person (includes crab, so it's not that exorbitant, just way more than I'm used to spending on a brunch). Just thinking of spending that much blows my mind.

See, if I wanted to eat fancy and expensive French food, I'd make it myself. It'd be a learning experience, and while it might not be quite as good as what a professional chef can do, it'd be pretty good, and I'd have the foundation (skills, tools) to do it a lot better the next time around.

I'd go to France (or Quebec since it's closer and similar enough to me).

I've gotten so accustomed to seeing people go out to eat at work. It makes me cry to see the $200 wasted between everyone every day. I'd totally cater for that money if they paid me (or more likely my SO). I may be converting a couple of people to the mustachian ways (or at least open their eyes to how big sukkas they are). One person is investing on top of frugality, another has been asking me about frugality! Still, I'm the only person who brings their food in every day...

eyePod

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5994 on: December 18, 2014, 06:42:54 AM »
A friend of mine's father bought a Tesla.  He's 87.  Financially, it's a "why not" for him, and when he passes it down a generation, it'll probably be pretty low mileage!

My friend's husband helped him "program" the darn thing.  Apparently there are pages of options, including a "creep" mode to get into the garage without ramming the back wall.  And what happens when they update the OS?

Hopefully they don't take the MS approach.  We know your car was functioning just fine, but we totally changed the OS and it's not compatible with your current car.  Also you owe us more money.  Also we arbitrarily changed the location of every setting you have memorized, even though it offers no advantage to do so, and no you don't have the option to customize it like it was before.  Also we added tons of bugs to make it significantly less stable.  We found 1 security hole too, so instead of fixing it we changed the whole OS to one with 10 security holes.  Also you owe us more money.

LOL, as someone who used excel a lot from 1997 till now, I HATED the update to the interface. But man, as I use it more and more, I love it. So many options are much easier to get at once you know where they're at. It's just hard for me since I have ~15 years of re-programming to do.

eyePod

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5995 on: December 18, 2014, 06:53:21 AM »
Ok, so this person is not a coworker of mine, but a member of a group I attend regularly.

Them:  Honestly one of the smartest things I've heard of doing when you have an extra $50 is to buy a $50 grocery store gift card.  If, when you're going paycheck to paycheck, you have some extra cash on hand, it's a great idea.  Then you won't starve when you're strapped for cash.
Me (could not keep my mouth shut):  No, that is a ridiculous idea.  $50 as a specific grocery store gift card is much less useful than just having $50 to spend where you need it.
Them:  [changes topic]
Me:  :/

Me just now:  Maybe I was too harsh?

I don't think it's a ridiculous idea. A lot of people have a harder time spending well (for me it's eating well), so we set up rules/situations to force ourselves into doing it the way we want to in the future. So this helps them avoid blowing the money on other stuff, similar to how I avoid buying unhealthy foods in the grocery store so I don't have them as an option at home when I'm in a poor willpower state.

Now, you could probably make an optimization point around the fact that they can't do a lot of price comparison though.

eyePod

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5996 on: December 18, 2014, 06:55:33 AM »
I hate macs.  PCs are superior in my opinion, I just hate MS and the way they operate and constantly force unnecessary upgrades into their OS and office.

I like my Macs and my iPad (and also my Android phone), but in my IT work, I see people chugging along on Windows XP and Office 2000/2003 quite frequently. Actually, I think the newer versions of Office with the ribbon are extremely annoying (although we use those at my current workplace). If you install the converter pack (and the security update for the converter pack, ugh...), those older versions of Office seem to work okay with the newer .docx/.xlsx/.pptx XML files. That said, when I install a newer version of Office, I typically change the settings so that it saves in the older format by default, for compatibility reasons.

Windows 7 was the last "good" release of Windows. Windows 8 is annoying. Vista was annoying. Before XP, Windows ME was annoying. It's like every other release of Windows is awful.

I'm not in IT, but Vista and 8 seemed to both be pretty bad upon release, but with regular updates have gotten back up to snuff. I have 8 on my laptop, and I've made it look like 7/XP as much as possible. The funniest part for me about all of this is that I love the old school Win95 gray colors, and I always get my system to look like that.

infogoon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5997 on: December 18, 2014, 07:00:03 AM »
LOL, as someone who used excel a lot from 1997 till now, I HATED the update to the interface. But man, as I use it more and more, I love it. So many options are much easier to get at once you know where they're at. It's just hard for me since I have ~15 years of re-programming to do.

Any significant interface change is going to do that. I don't know how many forum readers are Linux users, but I went through the same thing when GNOME 3 was released; the entire desktop interface changed from the previous version. I hated it for a couple of weeks until all of my old muscle memory could be replaced.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5998 on: December 18, 2014, 07:22:08 AM »
I hate macs.  PCs are superior in my opinion, I just hate MS and the way they operate and constantly force unnecessary upgrades into their OS and office.

I like my Macs and my iPad (and also my Android phone), but in my IT work, I see people chugging along on Windows XP and Office 2000/2003 quite frequently. Actually, I think the newer versions of Office with the ribbon are extremely annoying (although we use those at my current workplace). If you install the converter pack (and the security update for the converter pack, ugh...), those older versions of Office seem to work okay with the newer .docx/.xlsx/.pptx XML files. That said, when I install a newer version of Office, I typically change the settings so that it saves in the older format by default, for compatibility reasons.

Windows 7 was the last "good" release of Windows. Windows 8 is annoying. Vista was annoying. Before XP, Windows ME was annoying. It's like every other release of Windows is awful.

I still use office 2003.  And office 2007.  And office 2010.  It's annoying as hell that they redesign the interface every time.  I have no compatibility issues, and as far as I can tell the math and english language haven't changed, and they haven't added any practical functions, just shuffled it around to give me a headache and make themselves more money.  Windows 7 is stable, but it's a god damn nightmare as far as networking goes.  It's supposed to be better than xp, and it has great features - if they worked like they were supposed to.  But they don't. 

Vista was a turd.  Windows ME was an embarrassment and I can't believe they even released it.  Whatever greedy asshole decided that should be taken out back and shot. 

MS approach seems to be:

It's broken and doesn't function like it's supposed to? LOL try to find a work around on your own, we are too busy designing the next inferior OS that we want you to buy.

Oh we finally got something right and it functions great?  LOL here buy this new turd of an OS and pay us money.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5999 on: December 18, 2014, 07:32:06 AM »
I hate macs.  PCs are superior in my opinion, I just hate MS and the way they operate and constantly force unnecessary upgrades into their OS and office.

I like my Macs and my iPad (and also my Android phone), but in my IT work, I see people chugging along on Windows XP and Office 2000/2003 quite frequently. Actually, I think the newer versions of Office with the ribbon are extremely annoying (although we use those at my current workplace). If you install the converter pack (and the security update for the converter pack, ugh...), those older versions of Office seem to work okay with the newer .docx/.xlsx/.pptx XML files. That said, when I install a newer version of Office, I typically change the settings so that it saves in the older format by default, for compatibility reasons.

Windows 7 was the last "good" release of Windows. Windows 8 is annoying. Vista was annoying. Before XP, Windows ME was annoying. It's like every other release of Windows is awful.

I'm not in IT, but Vista and 8 seemed to both be pretty bad upon release, but with regular updates have gotten back up to snuff. I have 8 on my laptop, and I've made it look like 7/XP as much as possible. The funniest part for me about all of this is that I love the old school Win95 gray colors, and I always get my system to look like that.

I'm with you, minus the making it look like older versions part. When I want to launch something I just press Windows key, type the first few letters of what I want, Enter. Plus, 8 is noticeably faster for me. I don't quite understand the Windows 8 hate.

I think a lot of people are resistant to change.  I spent a lot of time on an OS, learned how to get it to do exactly what I want, and I am totally happy with how it functions and my interaction with it.  Then BAM MS flips it on it's ear and wants me to learn a new OS.  That's at least why I hate windows 8.  I learned everything about windows xp and was not limited in anyway, and I held on until they stopped supporting it and selling it.  When I needed to upgrade I got a pc with windows 7, and learned all the quirks of that OS and now know how to get it to do everything I want.  I don't want or need windows 8, and I see absolutely no benefits or improvements, just a new OS I need to learn.  At least windows 8 doesn't seem unstable like ME and vista were.  But still i'd rather not waste my time relearning how to do things I already know how to do for no apparent benefit.