Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 4954693 times)

marty998

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16400 on: December 28, 2016, 10:43:38 PM »
Quote
Climate Science.

There, I said it.

Are you mocking the deniers or the scientists?

I am mocking the generic opinion piece writer who has never set foot in a lab before but tells the masses it's a gigantic hoax and conspiracy because it was cold outside last Tuesday.

It is despairing to witness the disparagement of scientists who commit their lives to the advancement of the human race, only to be cut down by ignorant assholes looking for a headline.

arebelspy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16401 on: December 29, 2016, 12:27:00 AM »
Hear, hear.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
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Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16402 on: December 29, 2016, 01:03:32 AM »
Yeah, tell me about it.   It drives me nuts.   I think a lot of it is the drive to make your kids over-achieve (maybe this isn't the correct term - but I mean to get good marks by whatever means necessary so you can get into that engineering/pre-med/law program) rather than to make your kids excel (get good marks by being really good).

 Is it different outside of Ontario?   We've been here since shortly after the kids were born.

I heard that UBC is doing two things:  not accepting challenge exams for grade credit, as many students with a second language were challenging that language (instead of taking the course) getting high grade and using it as one of their averaged classes for getting in.

I heard that UBC gives kids from Alberta 3 percent more on their average, which is to help make it equal to the BC grade inflation.

They are also looking more closely at kids that take on line courses after already passing that class, just to get grades up.

Lastly, they have an essay / personal profile portion that allows them to select students not based solely on GPA, and prevents them from being sued because of it.  (My opinion why)

So -- if the elite universities are starting to do this, IMO BC has definite grade inflation.   My daughter and nephew are in grade 12 and we see it, too.   an 88 percent average and is in the top 15 percent of his class.    When I graduated, that would have been in the top 5 percent of students in your class.

kayvent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16403 on: December 29, 2016, 07:05:23 AM »
Yeah, tell me about it.   It drives me nuts.   I think a lot of it is the drive to make your kids over-achieve (maybe this isn't the correct term - but I mean to get good marks by whatever means necessary so you can get into that engineering/pre-med/law program) rather than to make your kids excel (get good marks by being really good).

 Is it different outside of Ontario?   We've been here since shortly after the kids were born.

I am only familiar with New Brunswick's and Ontario's systems. NB has less extreme inflation but has more pertinent issues like rampant illiteracy and activiely tries to kill streamlining and AP courses at its schools.

Having lived on the fringe of university politics, the universities in the Maritimes (many among the top rated in the country and some THE top rated in their category) have an internal (and non-disclosed) weighing system for provinces and some high schools. This makes the inflation that much more pointless.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 07:10:57 AM by kayvent »

scottish

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16404 on: December 29, 2016, 07:21:42 AM »
Quote
I am mocking the generic opinion piece writer who has never set foot in a lab before but tells the masses it's a gigantic hoax and conspiracy because it was cold outside last Tuesday.

Yeah, it's pretty sad.   I'm more or less agnostic (i.e. wait and see to the predictions), but client scientists definitely know more about it than the typical opinion piece writer-denier.    Lately the climate scientists have been making their data and tooling available publicly which is a huge step in the right direction.

This is an example of the degeneration of news reporting brought on by the internet.   I guess we have to take the bad with the good though.

Gin1984

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16405 on: December 29, 2016, 07:36:18 AM »

What people pay professionals for is the background knowledge, well developed intuition, and perspective that allows the random crap you make up as they go along to be viable, reasonable ideas that actually work in the real world. That kind of perspective isn't built cheaply or overnight, and it's one reason that a well educated professional opinion is worth more than someone else's less informed opinion.

It's become fashionable in this day and age to pretend that all opinions are created equal. But they aren't. A person who has taken the trouble to accumulate a great deal of knowledge in a specific area (including a basic familiarity with things that have been proven NOT to work) can pull an idea out of his or her ass and have it be better than the well considered but uninformed opinion of someone who has not bothered to inform himself or herself of the facts.

Education alone cannot make an idiot or a jerk into something besides an idiot or a jerk, and some people manage to attain more than others given the same level of academic preparation due to innate differences in creativity, opportunity, or work ethic. However in the select domain to which the education applies the person who has a background and working knowledge of a problem is better prepared to deal with it competently than one who does not.

A common misconception among people with lots of "book-larnin" is that education is universally transferable, and that the skills and insight one can gain in university is necessarily helpful or practical when trying to, say, repair a car or teach children how to play the piano. The extreme contempt displayed by the urban educated elite during and after the last US federal election is an illustration of the relationship between education and knowledge: one can study one subject for decades and yet be completely ignorant of the conditions and facts that apply in another region or economic circumstance.

I think a good education is transferable in the sense that it should teach you "how to learn," and the confidence to approach the unknown and figure it out.  It was probably more true back when people got true liberal arts educations.  Getting a specialized degree, which is much more common these days, is far less transferable.

It's less transferable because the absolute last thing taught at the undergraduate level is "how to learn". It's particularly true in the liberal arts. What is taught in the liberal arts is how to parrot back exactly what your instructor says, no matter how erroneous. In the sciences at least there are actual experiements.

The people who have the confidence to approach something unknown and figure it out are the people who were given unsupervised access to Tinkertoys, chemistry sets, sewing machines, art supplies, a kitchen, a home laboratory, or a wood or machine shop as kids. Not all of the kids who grow up that way end up with university degrees, but they do become badass independent thinkers. And they know how to learn long before they set foot on a campus.

Humans learn problem solving by solving problems. Not by studying theory, memorizing answers, enhancing their vocabulary, or filling in circles on a multiple choice quiz. Very few universities offer that kind of problem-solving approach. I'm told Harvard Business School is one that does, or used to.
My psychology upper division classes taught me more about research and learning than my biology classes and I was better prepared for research articles in sciences than many of my biology major classmates in grad school.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 09:52:04 AM by Gin1984 »

horsepoor

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16406 on: December 29, 2016, 08:49:18 AM »
My psychology upper division class taught me more about research and learning than my biology classes and I was better prepared for research articles in sciences than many of my biology major classmates in grad school.

Isn't it funny how that works?  I learned the most about how to read a scientific article, and write about it concisely in my animal genetics class, not my required technical writing class.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16407 on: December 29, 2016, 10:35:11 AM »
Perhaps I could have used a more "politically correct" term... whatever. I think you're right though, simply viewing the way others live may not actualize the idea in their minds. What really motivated me to do well in high school/college was that I worked a retail job in high school and got to experience shitty work for little pay. Great incentive to NOT get stuck doing that the rest of my life.

I don't think enough high school kids really experience middle class (or below) labor.  During high school I stocked shelves at the local grocery store for minimum wage, then the summer after high school I worked in a plastic injection factory assembling Honda Accord parts as they came right out of the machine (so hot), and then during college I worked in a nasty, oily machine shop.  Finishing college and getting an office job making 4x as much is so rewarding I can't even describe it.

One of my old students got a full ride to Columbia for law school and graduated near the top of his class. He told me his secret was that his dad owns a roofing company, and he spent his teenage summers on a crew finding out what happens if you don't work hard in school.

I've got couple-friends who both have PhDs in engineering.  Our older kids are the same age so we used to hang out back in the day.  When they were two, my friend was pregnant with #2.  Her husband's dad got sick/ injured.  So her husband went back home to help out for two weeks.  She was working full time, exhausted, and pregnant.  And doing it all herself for 2 weeks.

We had her over for dinner 2x, so that the boys could play and she could rest.  I'm not sure who I felt more sorry for.  Her, or the hubby. Who was taking over his dad's POOL SERVICE BUSINESS in AUGUST in PHOENIX for two weeks while his dad recovered.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16408 on: December 30, 2016, 08:38:56 AM »
I've shifted from the GPs I was working at where they were all sensible with cash to A&E which is a complete change.  One of the old GP's drove there grandparent's passed down tidy skoda fabia estate and the other a secondhand volkswagon golf.  In A&E all the doctors seem obsessed with german cars, thankfully most are buying second hand but still looking at £20-30k models.  The healthcare assistant however I overheard discussing her new green 1.0l petrol vauxhall corsa she bought on finance to which I chimed in that I'd just bought a low mileage (<30,000) 1.3 diesel one for £3,000.  She asked me what colour and I told her silver, but even if it was pink I still would have bought it, it was a good deal.  It boggles the mind, she makes barely more than the list price of the car a year in wages and I make closing on 3.5x the list price and only one of us thinks it sensible not to buy new.

The other recurring theme of A&E is the god awful number of takeaways during nights/late shifts.  I understand it fucks with your organisation skills and your appetite and will power working nights, but a takeaway is almost an hours earnings for me, not worth it.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16409 on: December 30, 2016, 09:33:03 AM »


The people who have the confidence to approach something unknown and figure it out are the people who were given unsupervised access to Tinkertoys, chemistry sets, sewing machines, art supplies, a kitchen, a home laboratory, or a wood or machine shop as kids. Not all of the kids who grow up that way end up with university degrees, but they do become badass independent thinkers. And they know how to learn long before they set foot on a campus.



THIS. Yes, yes, yes.

Let your kids learn by mentally problem solving and trying things out with their hands. I clearly remember being 6-7yo and taking apart rusted bicycles, old radios, tools etc. 

This freedom gave me the basis for looking at an item anf mentally figuring out how it worked. Needless to say this has been a tremendous ability to have and has saved me thousands upon thousands of dollars that I would had had to pay someone in order to fix things around the house, cars, garden equipment etc.

Let kids learn by doing not just by reading. And not only that, but be a part of it, they will appreciate it.
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infogoon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16410 on: December 30, 2016, 01:11:45 PM »


The people who have the confidence to approach something unknown and figure it out are the people who were given unsupervised access to Tinkertoys, chemistry sets, sewing machines, art supplies, a kitchen, a home laboratory, or a wood or machine shop as kids. Not all of the kids who grow up that way end up with university degrees, but they do become badass independent thinkers. And they know how to learn long before they set foot on a campus.



THIS. Yes, yes, yes.

Let your kids learn by mentally problem solving and trying things out with their hands. I clearly remember being 6-7yo and taking apart rusted bicycles, old radios, tools etc. 

This freedom gave me the basis for looking at an item anf mentally figuring out how it worked. Needless to say this has been a tremendous ability to have and has saved me thousands upon thousands of dollars that I would had had to pay someone in order to fix things around the house, cars, garden equipment etc.

Let kids learn by doing not just by reading. And not only that, but be a part of it, they will appreciate it.

It's been interesting to watch the generational shift in IT as we move from the "largely self-taught nerds who grew up with Commodores" group, of which I am a member, to the "I learned this in school" group. Totally different approaches to troubleshooting and research.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16411 on: December 30, 2016, 02:59:07 PM »


The people who have the confidence to approach something unknown and figure it out are the people who were given unsupervised access to Tinkertoys, chemistry sets, sewing machines, art supplies, a kitchen, a home laboratory, or a wood or machine shop as kids. Not all of the kids who grow up that way end up with university degrees, but they do become badass independent thinkers. And they know how to learn long before they set foot on a campus.



THIS. Yes, yes, yes.

Let your kids learn by mentally problem solving and trying things out with their hands. I clearly remember being 6-7yo and taking apart rusted bicycles, old radios, tools etc. 

This freedom gave me the basis for looking at an item anf mentally figuring out how it worked. Needless to say this has been a tremendous ability to have and has saved me thousands upon thousands of dollars that I would had had to pay someone in order to fix things around the house, cars, garden equipment etc.

Let kids learn by doing not just by reading. And not only that, but be a part of it, they will appreciate it.

It's been interesting to watch the generational shift in IT as we move from the "largely self-taught nerds who grew up with Commodores" group, of which I am a member, to the "I learned this in school" group. Totally different approaches to troubleshooting and research.
I wonder how much of that is how you are raised, and general personality?

I'm 46, grew up in the "unsupervised access to..." era.  But I'm a book learner.  I'm not much of a tinkerer.

I do fine, but I'm a slow, steady, cautious learner.  I'm a great engineer at my job, and I learn by doing - but by doing cautiously.  In the early days, I'd have a really hard time "figuring things out", but as I was exposed to more equipment, processes, and problems - I got really good at it.

But to this day, it's hard for me to "jump in and figure things out".  I prefer to read about it first, and dip my toe in.

My husband's the opposite.  I sometimes think that's why he's got a PhD and I don't.

JustTrying

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16412 on: December 30, 2016, 10:41:46 PM »
My neighbor who sells them says LLR is sending way fewer solids than they used to (you don't get to pick...)

I considered a dark teal pair (the hostess took all the black pairs before the party started); but they were too long on me - I've never been not one-size-fits-all.  They were soft though. So my pity purchase for that party was a "classic tee" which wasn't worth $35, but a pretty basic geometric print.  I've since avoided the parties.

Did your leggings get holes in them quickly? I've read that complaint a lot.

Still working through this thread, so not sure if someone already answered this. There is NO WAY I'd pay $25 for leggings, but my friends kept going on and on about LLR, so I entered a bunch of FB contests and eventually won a free pair of leggings. The leggings arrived, and were so soft and lovely...and promptly ripped as I tried to pull them on my legs! I was horrified! (It's not that I'm huge or violent or anything - I later learned that you are supposed to treat the leggings like nylons, delicately and carefully. - REALLY???)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16413 on: December 31, 2016, 02:47:09 AM »
The people who have the confidence to approach something unknown and figure it out are the people who were given unsupervised access to Tinkertoys, chemistry sets, sewing machines, art supplies, a kitchen, a home laboratory, or a wood or machine shop as kids. Not all of the kids who grow up that way end up with university degrees, but they do become badass independent thinkers. And they know how to learn long before they set foot on a campus.
THIS. Yes, yes, yes.
Let your kids learn by mentally problem solving and trying things out with their hands. I clearly remember being 6-7yo and taking apart rusted bicycles, old radios, tools etc. 
This freedom gave me the basis for looking at an item anf mentally figuring out how it worked. Needless to say this has been a tremendous ability to have and has saved me thousands upon thousands of dollars that I would had had to pay someone in order to fix things around the house, cars, garden equipment etc.

Let kids learn by doing not just by reading. And not only that, but be a part of it, they will appreciate it.

I would caveat to say be a part of it but don't do the thinking for them. The trial and error process is really important. My parents were concerned about me getting it 'wrong' so would stop me before I put a nut on the wrong way (or whatever). I see the same thing when the kids are doing jigsaws, if they pick up the wrong piece, parents will correct it rather than let the kid figure out why it doesn't fit.

The process of getting it a little bit wrong and figuring what is right is what builds a lot of the skills. (But check the bike's brakes over before letting them cycle downhill!)

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16414 on: December 31, 2016, 08:07:41 AM »
The people who have the confidence to approach something unknown and figure it out are the people who were given unsupervised access to Tinkertoys, chemistry sets, sewing machines, art supplies, a kitchen, a home laboratory, or a wood or machine shop as kids. Not all of the kids who grow up that way end up with university degrees, but they do become badass independent thinkers. And they know how to learn long before they set foot on a campus.
THIS. Yes, yes, yes.
Let your kids learn by mentally problem solving and trying things out with their hands. I clearly remember being 6-7yo and taking apart rusted bicycles, old radios, tools etc. 
This freedom gave me the basis for looking at an item anf mentally figuring out how it worked. Needless to say this has been a tremendous ability to have and has saved me thousands upon thousands of dollars that I would had had to pay someone in order to fix things around the house, cars, garden equipment etc.

Let kids learn by doing not just by reading. And not only that, but be a part of it, they will appreciate it.

I would caveat to say be a part of it but don't do the thinking for them. The trial and error process is really important. My parents were concerned about me getting it 'wrong' so would stop me before I put a nut on the wrong way (or whatever). I see the same thing when the kids are doing jigsaws, if they pick up the wrong piece, parents will correct it rather than let the kid figure out why it doesn't fit.

The process of getting it a little bit wrong and figuring what is right is what builds a lot of the skills. (But check the bike's brakes over before letting them cycle downhill!)

This applies to a lot of learning - basically letting people reach a BIT farther than they think they can. If you let them reach too far, they fall flat on their face, it's discouraging. But if you step in right where they think the limit is, they don't learn to push the limit.

This applies to my toddler, who howls for help to get off my bed... she's like 3 inches off the floor, just slide a bit further and you're there yourself, and you're not even at risk of falling! So we encourage "you're almost there, keep sliding just a bit, you've got this!" And she learns to handle more and more... obv we still in if she insists or if she actually needs the help, but she's naturally very cautious, and encouraging some pushing of boundaries is really good.

It applies at work, too... people who have handled something similar but not on such a large scale, say, or people who have the bits of knowledge needed but have never put it together. Some encouragement that they can do this, look, they have the skills, come get help if needed but seriously they got this, is way more effective at developing potential and promoting skill development and feelings of accomplishment than having someone senior sweep in and "fix" everything.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16415 on: December 31, 2016, 02:27:36 PM »


The people who have the confidence to approach something unknown and figure it out are the people who were given unsupervised access to Tinkertoys, chemistry sets, sewing machines, art supplies, a kitchen, a home laboratory, or a wood or machine shop as kids. Not all of the kids who grow up that way end up with university degrees, but they do become badass independent thinkers. And they know how to learn long before they set foot on a campus.



THIS. Yes, yes, yes.

Let your kids learn by mentally problem solving and trying things out with their hands. I clearly remember being 6-7yo and taking apart rusted bicycles, old radios, tools etc. 

This freedom gave me the basis for looking at an item anf mentally figuring out how it worked. Needless to say this has been a tremendous ability to have and has saved me thousands upon thousands of dollars that I would had had to pay someone in order to fix things around the house, cars, garden equipment etc.

Let kids learn by doing not just by reading. And not only that, but be a part of it, they will appreciate it.

It's been interesting to watch the generational shift in IT as we move from the "largely self-taught nerds who grew up with Commodores" group, of which I am a member, to the "I learned this in school" group. Totally different approaches to troubleshooting and research.

I suspect there is a combination of the two different types that would be the best. We have some of that at work and it really strengthens the group. Some theory, some practical knowledge, stir it together.

My buddy taught me a good lesson in grad school 'at some point, you need to stop thinking about it and go build it and see what happens'.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16416 on: December 31, 2016, 02:29:10 PM »
Kitsune -- your three year old is the opposite of my DD when young. Made me smile. 

My DD on the other hand, at under 18 months, figured out how to fling herself out of the crib (leg over the rail, then let go to fall), open the door, and start to roam the house.. once we found her (at age 3?) on the kitchen counter, with the big knife about to try to cut up some food.. she moved so fast..

Suffice to say that I got very little sleep for several years, as we did not believe in locking toddlers in their rooms, and had to move her to a mattress on the floor for safety, and sleep with one eye open as she would wake up 1x a night, and up by 4am.   Looking back, maybe I should have installed a room lock.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16417 on: December 31, 2016, 05:08:07 PM »
Goldielocks: that is the EXACT opposite of my daughter. She's 2.5, refuses to sleep anywhere but her crib, and has never gotten out of it. Yay containment!

But yeah, in your case, childproof the room as much as possible and then block the door. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with a lock (fire?) but a nice really tall gate...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16418 on: December 31, 2016, 06:54:20 PM »

Am I the only person who thinks the LulaRoe stuff is ugly as am get out? Funky printed leggings on thick thighs is not a good look.

I had to look it up but... so ugly.  Ladies, please no.  Unless it's like ironic at an 80's party.

It's fine. Folks can wear fun patterns if they want.

Quit being so uptight.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16419 on: December 31, 2016, 08:53:03 PM »
Not technically a work one but: in Alaska, a lot of people have a combination of or even all of the following expensive toys: ATVs, snow machines (snowmobiles), RVs, trailer to haul the toys, boats and massive customized trucks to haul said toys that double as daily drivers for long commutes. So I hear an ad the other day for storage units for toys so that "you can have your garage and driveway back." SMH that there is even a market for that.

2 years ago I worked in the oilfields of North Dakota. F'ed up financial pasts and habits were the rule rather than the exception, with so many guys making the big oil checks. But my one coworker had worked contract jobs in remote areas all over the world for a few years making very good money... and had taken 0 deductions for those years and hadn't even filed taxes for 3 years. No savings, no assets, needless to say. He once told me he needed to clear $2k a week in pay just break even on the bills. Incredible.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16420 on: January 01, 2017, 03:48:53 AM »
Co-worker has recently split with their partner and has a couple of kids.

They are struggling to work out budgeting after 20 odd years of marriage and shared expenses which is understandable. What I don't get is that they are struggling financially to manage and yet keep doing things like buying one of the kids a car or agreeing to pay for a birthday party for 100 guests with food and alcohol provided...
This co-worker popped up on my Facebook feed over Christmas. They purchased a new phone for one of their children and was organising to have the old phone repaired to give to another of their children.

The new phone recipient posted about it on Facebook and the second hand phone recipient commented complaining about being the least favourite child (they are an adult with a full time job). Cue the parent chiming in and announcing that they will both be receiving brand new phones.

I wonder if the kids realise the level of financial stress indulging them is putting their parents under.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16421 on: January 01, 2017, 04:16:42 AM »

Am I the only person who thinks the LulaRoe stuff is ugly as am get out? Funky printed leggings on thick thighs is not a good look.

I had to look it up but... so ugly.  Ladies, please no.  Unless it's like ironic at an 80's party.

It's fine. Folks can wear fun patterns if they want.

Quit being so uptight.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16422 on: January 01, 2017, 11:12:47 AM »
Co-worker has recently split with their partner and has a couple of kids.

They are struggling to work out budgeting after 20 odd years of marriage and shared expenses which is understandable. What I don't get is that they are struggling financially to manage and yet keep doing things like buying one of the kids a car or agreeing to pay for a birthday party for 100 guests with food and alcohol provided...
This co-worker popped up on my Facebook feed over Christmas. They purchased a new phone for one of their children and was organising to have the old phone repaired to give to another of their children.

The new phone recipient posted about it on Facebook and the second hand phone recipient commented complaining about being the least favourite child (they are an adult with a full time job). Cue the parent chiming in and announcing that they will both be receiving brand new phones.

I wonder if the kids realise the level of financial stress indulging them is putting their parents under.

The parents who decided to buy adult children expensive cell phones?  It seems like the parents are the cause of their own issues, both in the choice of gifts and the raising of the recipients.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16423 on: January 01, 2017, 11:51:42 AM »

Am I the only person who thinks the LulaRoe stuff is ugly as am get out? Funky printed leggings on thick thighs is not a good look.

I had to look it up but... so ugly.  Ladies, please no.  Unless it's like ironic at an 80's party.

It's fine. Folks can wear fun patterns if they want.

Quit being so uptight.

Says the man who has obviously not had to avert his eyes to avoid getting an eyeful of butt and thigh when his coworker is wearing these too tight, ugly leggings as pants. We have had to add a note in our dress code at work to address it.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16424 on: January 01, 2017, 11:55:45 AM »
They added something to our dress code at work as well. I love leggings, but wear them as tights under a dress or long tunic, not as pants.

I saw a funny meme on FB or pinterest or somewhere that said " You know what they would call leggings if they were meant to be worn as pants? PANTS!"

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16425 on: January 01, 2017, 12:23:02 PM »
Overheard a co-worker earlier this week talking to his wife over the phone about a jeep. He bought a brand new 2016 Jeep Wrangler unlimited earlier this year for roughly $35k and apparently she didn't like the fact that she did not have one herself so last week he bought a brand new 2017 Jeep Wrangler for her. That one was at $32k, both were 6 year loans I think! Didn't need to do the math when he came around boasting about the new vehicles, I simply emailed him the link to the MMM Jeep Suicide reader case study. He wasn't amused :)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16426 on: January 01, 2017, 02:47:01 PM »
Overheard a co-worker earlier this week talking to his wife over the phone about a jeep. He bought a brand new 2016 Jeep Wrangler unlimited earlier this year for roughly $35k and apparently she didn't like the fact that she did not have one herself so last week he bought a brand new 2017 Jeep Wrangler for her. That one was at $32k, both were 6 year loans I think! Didn't need to do the math when he came around boasting about the new vehicles, I simply emailed him the link to the MMM Jeep Suicide reader case study. He wasn't amused :)

Wait, so her Jeep cost $3k LESS than his did?  So not fair!  He better buy her a new, more expensive one stat ;-)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16427 on: January 01, 2017, 02:51:45 PM »
Overheard a co-worker earlier this week talking to his wife over the phone about a jeep

The sad thing is that if you actually want to go off-roading, you're better off in something old and beat up that you don't mind abusing.

gimp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16428 on: January 01, 2017, 03:53:37 PM »
They added something to our dress code at work as well. I love leggings, but wear them as tights under a dress or long tunic, not as pants.

I saw a funny meme on FB or pinterest or somewhere that said " You know what they would call leggings if they were meant to be worn as pants? PANTS!"

Leggings accentuate. Like a bikini.

If you're attractive, leggings make that stand out even more. Amazing.

If your body is unattractive, leggings make that stand out even more. Horrible.

Like a (formal) hat for men, if you can pull it off, it's lovely; if you can't, you look like a conceited fool.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16429 on: January 01, 2017, 04:00:29 PM »
Overheard a co-worker earlier this week talking to his wife over the phone about a jeep

The sad thing is that if you actually want to go off-roading, you're better off in something old and beat up that you don't mind abusing.

He had a Jeep catalog of some sort that had upgrades/accessories to buy, I didn't even bother looking through it. He was mentioning buying stuff to make it more capable. We live in Iowa, not sure how capable of a vehicle a person needs :D

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16430 on: January 01, 2017, 04:09:05 PM »
Jeep people are crazy / impressive. It is common to see a $30k jeep with $30k of upgrades.

We're talking a full mudding / water setup: upgrades to the entire driveline (sealing, stronger axles, a differently behaving [and often electronically controlled] differential, huge mud tires, etc); anti-rollover bars, snorkels, high output alternators to feed all sorts of lights and winches and other electronics, yada yada.

Most of these are pavement princesses that are occasionally used to ford six inches of water, which the fucker would be able to do bone stock anyways.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16431 on: January 01, 2017, 04:37:52 PM »
Jeep people are crazy / impressive. It is common to see a $30k jeep with $30k of upgrades.

We're talking a full mudding / water setup: upgrades to the entire driveline (sealing, stronger axles, a differently behaving [and often electronically controlled] differential, huge mud tires, etc); anti-rollover bars, snorkels, high output alternators to feed all sorts of lights and winches and other electronics, yada yada.

Most of these are pavement princesses that are occasionally used to ford six inches of water, which the fucker would be able to do bone stock anyways.


They'll do twice that bone stock. I don't even think it's a reflection of any wisdom failure that I know that firsthand.


I do not get the tricking out of Jeeps. It's definitely not about performance.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16432 on: January 01, 2017, 05:11:30 PM »
Jeep people are crazy...


They'll do twice that bone stock. I don't even think it's a reflection of any wisdom failure that I know that firsthand.


I do not get the tricking out of Jeeps. It's definitely not about performance.

An excerpt from my favourite column about Jeep, from an Aussie motoring writer:

Quote
There’s no denying they’re fit for purpose, of course, because all Jeeps come with genuine off-roady dusty DNA. They look rough and ready because they really are, as anyone who’s ever seen one master the Rubicon Trail will testify.

My favourite Jeep memory, though, is being told on a Wrangler launch by company spokesheads that, yes, they know their steering is crap, but they can’t fix it because that’s how their customers like it.

Who are these slack-jawed customers, and how did so many of them sneak into Australia?

“I bought a Jeep” is a phrase that would only be used in a mock-Yankee-doodle accent in this country not so long ago.

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/features/1405/friday-rant-you-bought-a-what

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16433 on: January 01, 2017, 05:12:18 PM »
Jeep people are crazy / impressive. It is common to see a $30k jeep with $30k of upgrades.

We're talking a full mudding / water setup: upgrades to the entire driveline (sealing, stronger axles, a differently behaving [and often electronically controlled] differential, huge mud tires, etc); anti-rollover bars, snorkels, high output alternators to feed all sorts of lights and winches and other electronics, yada yada.

Most of these are pavement princesses that are occasionally used to ford six inches of water, which the fucker would be able to do bone stock anyways.


They'll do twice that bone stock. I don't even think it's a reflection of any wisdom failure that I know that firsthand.


I do not get the tricking out of Jeeps. It's definitely not about performance.

Exactly! There was a jeep get together at a local retirement home that I volunteer at, all the residents can go look at the vehicles and they set up a dirt course to drive on. One individuals jeep was literally "worth" $100,000. No joke, he claimed the jeep was $50k base, $30k in suspension upgrades, $10k in engine modifications, about $10k in other add ons. It's a cult. I don't get it either.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16434 on: January 01, 2017, 05:18:38 PM »
Jeep people are crazy...


They'll do twice that bone stock. I don't even think it's a reflection of any wisdom failure that I know that firsthand.


I do not get the tricking out of Jeeps. It's definitely not about performance.

An excerpt from my favourite column about Jeep, from an Aussie motoring writer:

Quote
There’s no denying they’re fit for purpose, of course, because all Jeeps come with genuine off-roady dusty DNA. They look rough and ready because they really are, as anyone who’s ever seen one master the Rubicon Trail will testify.

My favourite Jeep memory, though, is being told on a Wrangler launch by company spokesheads that, yes, they know their steering is crap, but they can’t fix it because that’s how their customers like it.

Who are these slack-jawed customers, and how did so many of them sneak into Australia?

“I bought a Jeep” is a phrase that would only be used in a mock-Yankee-doodle accent in this country not so long ago.

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/features/1405/friday-rant-you-bought-a-what


 Well, now, I might be a member of the cult. But you don't have to do any modifications to have a religious experience :-)


Seriously, as I've said here before, a jeep is a tool. Very few people actually need one, so I should probably be grateful for the people who use them to go out and do recreational things – it means it's possible for me to have one to do useful things  without having to pay  a specialty premium for the specialty tool that it really is.


 What's supposed to be wrong with the steering, anyway? Never had any trouble out of ours. We just realized today we've had it 17 years (we bought it used).

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16435 on: January 01, 2017, 10:44:23 PM »

Am I the only person who thinks the LulaRoe stuff is ugly as am get out? Funky printed leggings on thick thighs is not a good look.

I had to look it up but... so ugly.  Ladies, please no.  Unless it's like ironic at an 80's party.

It's fine. Folks can wear fun patterns if they want.

Quit being so uptight.

The freedom to perform an action does not release one from the consequences of such action.

You made me laugh out loud and snarf carbonated beverage out through my nose. Well done.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16436 on: January 02, 2017, 09:00:21 PM »
First post. Hope this isn't a carbon copy of another story.

I used to work at the airport, and a guy came in with his daughter, who was less than ten years old. He wanted to buy something worth about $10. He told her he would use his debit card, and if there was no money on it he'd use his credit card instead. (The purchase went through, and I hope someone about to take a flight has more than $10 in their bank account, but that's really bad advice for a child.)

I know a neighbor who became disabled and on welfare. Unfortunately he was self-employed and worked under the table, so no Canada Pension Plan Disability (equivalent to Social Security disability) when he got sick. That pays a lot more than welfare. He spends all his money on potted plants (they don't last long), had his phone cut off due to non-payment, uses credit card balance transfers (instead of paying off the debt, he just treats it like more credit) and buys stuff he doesn't even know how to use. Like an expensive Windows 8 laptop I had to show him how to use. (I hate Windows 8, by the way. Basically I Googled how to make it work, and which third-party patch to use to make it look like Windows XP so I could actually navigate the thing.)

This co-worker popped up on my Facebook feed over Christmas. They purchased a new phone for one of their children and was organising to have the old phone repaired to give to another of their children.

The new phone recipient posted about it on Facebook and the second hand phone recipient commented complaining about being the least favourite child (they are an adult with a full time job). Cue the parent chiming in and announcing that they will both be receiving brand new phones.

I wonder if the kids realise the level of financial stress indulging them is putting their parents under.

Alas, that's me too. I don't need a cell phone. I don't even want one, so I didn't buy one. My mother bought me one... for "emergencies" precisely because I refused to buy one. And unfortunately she got a plan rather than a pay-as-you-go. (Considering how rarely I use the thing, $50/month is far too much. I don't give out the number as I don't want people calling me on it.) I did not ask her to buy me one, she instead bought it as a surprise, and renewed it when the contract ran out. (She also bought one for my brother, who won't even turn his on.)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16437 on: January 03, 2017, 02:22:50 PM »
A coworker was complaining that the deductible for the family coverage on our health insurance went up by $750.  He was going on semi-seriously about how they couldn't afford to do things and he'd have to get a side job because their health expenses were so high.  I tried to be sympathetic but our premiums are dirt cheap, the out of pocket max for a family is $3750 and this dude makes six figures or damn near close.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16438 on: January 04, 2017, 12:04:15 PM »
I work with a guy who's in his mid-50s and has serious money issues. I used to hear him on the phone with his wife arguing about money all the time, and then one day he started talking and couldn't stop. I think he just needed to vent.

He had gotten divorced a long time ago, no kids from that marriage, so by the time he met his new wife he had some savings and owned a house, although I don't know how much equity he had in it. He met his second wife, who has twin daughters aged around 10 at the time, and they got married. By now, the daughters are both in their 20s and going to Georgetown law school.

He tells me that he's doing a cash out refi on the house to help pay bills, at an 11.5% mortgage rate because his credit sucks. His credit cards are all maxed out (don't know the total), hence the refi. Another reason he needs the money is to pay for two apartments for the daughters while they go to school. Wait, two apartments? Yes, they can't live together because they fight all the time...

So the refi goes through, and he shows up at work with a used Volvo (he paid $5000). He asks me what I think, and I tell him it's a nice car but could get expensive if something goes wrong. A few weeks later, he finds out the AC doesn't work, so he takes it to a Volvo dealer. $1800 to fix it.
While it's in the shop, he shows up to work in an old Ford Explorer. I asked if that was his wife's car. Oh no, that's our SUV that we keep for bad weather. I told him I noticed that a headlight had burned out...he takes it to the dealer.

It was like watching a train wreck in progress, and the worst part was that he knew it was nuts. He kept saying that once the girls were done with law school everything would be fine, but I couldn't see him ever digging out of the hole he was in.

thesvenster

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16439 on: January 04, 2017, 12:16:52 PM »
I work with a guy who's in his mid-50s and has serious money issues. I used to hear him on the phone with his wife arguing about money all the time, and then one day he started talking and couldn't stop. I think he just needed to vent.

He had gotten divorced a long time ago, no kids from that marriage, so by the time he met his new wife he had some savings and owned a house, although I don't know how much equity he had in it. He met his second wife, who has twin daughters aged around 10 at the time, and they got married. By now, the daughters are both in their 20s and going to Georgetown law school.

He tells me that he's doing a cash out refi on the house to help pay bills, at an 11.5% mortgage rate because his credit sucks. His credit cards are all maxed out (don't know the total), hence the refi. Another reason he needs the money is to pay for two apartments for the daughters while they go to school. Wait, two apartments? Yes, they can't live together because they fight all the time...

So the refi goes through, and he shows up at work with a used Volvo (he paid $5000). He asks me what I think, and I tell him it's a nice car but could get expensive if something goes wrong. A few weeks later, he finds out the AC doesn't work, so he takes it to a Volvo dealer. $1800 to fix it.
While it's in the shop, he shows up to work in an old Ford Explorer. I asked if that was his wife's car. Oh no, that's our SUV that we keep for bad weather. I told him I noticed that a headlight had burned out...he takes it to the dealer.

It was like watching a train wreck in progress, and the worst part was that he knew it was nuts. He kept saying that once the girls were done with law school everything would be fine, but I couldn't see him ever digging out of the hole he was in.

That is as depressing as hell, I think resignation is the one of the biggest drivers of continued financial difficulty.  Sadly, I bet those 2 girls will be little better when they finally graduate.

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16440 on: January 04, 2017, 02:38:06 PM »
We had a huge thread(part) on this once, and all agreed that 4WD is useless. If you drive summer tires. And 2 motorised wheels with winter tires is way better then 4WD with summer tires. And if a 2 wheel car with winter tires is "skating" then 4WD dont have any grip too.

I believe if the thread found that 4wd was useless it did not come to the correct conclusion. There are certainly situations that 4wd is not the answer to, and it's not always worth the cost upgrade, but there are real-world driving applications where a vehicle with more ground clearance and four powered wheels is quite superior to a 2wd car.
Okay, I reword this:
4WD in summer tires is useless compared to 2WD with winter tires. 4WD with winter tires is still better then 2WD with winter tires. But not much based on "normal" climates (not 6 month canadian winter with minimum 20cm snow on every street). That said, I have plowed through 20cm snow with a small car and only front drive - you just need the right tires. Most important safety part except the brakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA

Of course if you don't live in the frozen tundra up north, you're probably on "all-season" tires. We can't really justify winter tires here b/c of the temp swings. For example it is forecast to be sub-freezing with possible snow in a couple of days but we started out the week with 70+ degree weather. Next week's forecasts is to be rainy and high 40s. Warm weather and snow tires = accelerated wear. Correct?

So with that in mind folks here generally choose a FWD/RWD car on all-season tires, a 4WD SUV/truck on all-season tires, or an AWD vehicle with all-season tires. We drive hilly or a shady places so traction is important.

Some of us tackle enough mud or snow or even ice in a year's time that the ~1-2 mpg penalty of AWD is a worthwhile expense. It is an expense that we can certainly offset by driving less or keeping our cars longer vs trading up. The lower cost of living here also helps make up the difference.

There are more perspectives than the one from the snowy sometimes flat northern metropolitan areas.

If I was concerned with absolute efficiency I would live somewhere that I didn't need to own a car at all. Or I would choose to live somewhere warmish where I didn't face the cost of heating a home in sub-zero temperatures.

Well, we made that choice. Cheers!

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16441 on: January 04, 2017, 03:00:10 PM »

Am I the only person who thinks the LulaRoe stuff is ugly as am get out? Funky printed leggings on thick thighs is not a good look.

I had to look it up but... so ugly.  Ladies, please no.  Unless it's like ironic at an 80's party.

It's fine. Folks can wear fun patterns if they want.

Quit being so uptight.

I heard someone call these Yoga pants. Still not sure they are or aren't the same thing. Anyhow - had a shapely young woman walk through the shop area at work in yoga pants. So many of the guys took notice I was seriously worried one of them might loose a finger to a power tool.

She knew what she was doing. Everyone else knew what she was doing too.

gimp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16442 on: January 04, 2017, 03:41:37 PM »
I heard someone call these Yoga pants. Still not sure they are or aren't the same thing. Anyhow - had a shapely young woman walk through the shop area at work in yoga pants. So many of the guys took notice I was seriously worried one of them might loose a finger to a power tool.

She knew what she was doing. Everyone else knew what she was doing too.

God bless her, too.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16443 on: January 04, 2017, 04:04:15 PM »

Am I the only person who thinks the LulaRoe stuff is ugly as am get out? Funky printed leggings on thick thighs is not a good look.

I had to look it up but... so ugly.  Ladies, please no.  Unless it's like ironic at an 80's party.

It's fine. Folks can wear fun patterns if they want.

Quit being so uptight.

NO.  NO fun allowed without express authorization from the pattern police.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16444 on: January 05, 2017, 06:57:46 AM »
I heard someone call these Yoga pants. Still not sure they are or aren't the same thing. Anyhow - had a shapely young woman walk through the shop area at work in yoga pants. So many of the guys took notice I was seriously worried one of them might loose a finger to a power tool.

She knew what she was doing. Everyone else knew what she was doing too.

God bless her, too.

Pictures, or it didn't happen.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16445 on: January 05, 2017, 07:04:33 AM »
5 million dollars isnt what it used to be.

nuf said on that.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

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Tasty Pinecones

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16446 on: January 05, 2017, 10:09:10 AM »
I heard someone call these Yoga pants. Still not sure they are or aren't the same thing. Anyhow - had a shapely young woman walk through the shop area at work in yoga pants. So many of the guys took notice I was seriously worried one of them might loose a finger to a power tool.

She knew what she was doing. Everyone else knew what she was doing too.

God bless her, too.

Pictures, or it didn't happen.

Sorry. She's long gone. The yoga pants became a semi-regular thing that last year. She was here for a long time before she moved on to greener pastures. Career ambition and all that. She was sharp as a tack (smart) as my grandmother used to say.

On the topic of tires one more thing: just slow down when it snows. The guy with the snow tires might stop 20 feet sooner but if the guy with AWD/FWD and all-season tires would drop his speed 10 mph for example, he could stop 20 ft sooner too. I'd own snow tires if I lived where there was a real winter season but we just have to cope with a few snows per winter so we use our AWD/4WD and drive slower. 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 10:36:21 AM by Tasty Pinecones »

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16447 on: January 05, 2017, 12:10:35 PM »
I heard someone call these Yoga pants. Still not sure they are or aren't the same thing. Anyhow - had a shapely young woman walk through the shop area at work in yoga pants. So many of the guys took notice I was seriously worried one of them might loose a finger to a power tool.

She knew what she was doing. Everyone else knew what she was doing too.

God bless her, too.

Pictures, or it didn't happen.
On the topic of tires one more thing: just slow down when it snows. The guy with the snow tires might stop 20 feet sooner but if the guy with AWD/FWD and all-season tires would drop his speed 10 mph for example, he could stop 20 ft sooner too. I'd own snow tires if I lived where there was a real winter season but we just have to cope with a few snows per winter so we use our AWD/4WD and drive slower.

We don't generally get a ton of snow here in Toronto, but I'd still recommend winter tires.  Our work is in the middle of a valley.  Every year we'll get at least one dumping of snow, cars will drive over the snow and pack it down to ice, and the ditches will subsequently be littered with cars that are get 3/4 of the way up the hill and then slide off to the side.

The court that I live in is one of the last streets plowed in Toronto.  If we get five inches of snow it's sometimes not possible for us to get our car to the street when we have the all-seasons on.  With winter tires?  No problem.

Then you run into the problem of other people.  You might be a great driver, but that guy who cuts you off isn't.  Winter tires mean that you have more leeway with your reaction time.  Or that black patch of ice that you hit and start spinning the car around on.


I'd never argue that you should drive recklessly in the winter, and slowing down is always a good idea when the weather's bad.  Considering the benefits that winter tires offer though (and how cheap they are), it's probably a good idea to just get some.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16448 on: January 05, 2017, 01:38:13 PM »
We don't generally get a ton of snow here in Toronto, but I'd still recommend winter tires.  Our work is in the middle of a valley.  Every year we'll get at least one dumping of snow, cars will drive over the snow and pack it down to ice, and the ditches will subsequently be littered with cars that are get 3/4 of the way up the hill and then slide off to the side.

The court that I live in is one of the last streets plowed in Toronto.  If we get five inches of snow it's sometimes not possible for us to get our car to the street when we have the all-seasons on.  With winter tires?  No problem.

Then you run into the problem of other people.  You might be a great driver, but that guy who cuts you off isn't.  Winter tires mean that you have more leeway with your reaction time.  Or that black patch of ice that you hit and start spinning the car around on.


I'd never argue that you should drive recklessly in the winter, and slowing down is always a good idea when the weather's bad.  Considering the benefits that winter tires offer though (and how cheap they are), it's probably a good idea to just get some.

So dumb question; does everyone keep an extra set of rims with their winter tires as well, or do they get mounted and unmounted every year?

I know some places in Canada require winter tires during certain times of the year, no matter if there is snow on the ground or not. Motorcyclists complain because they can't ride even though the road is clear and it's nice out, or they face a ticket.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16449 on: January 05, 2017, 01:51:20 PM »
We don't generally get a ton of snow here in Toronto, but I'd still recommend winter tires.  Our work is in the middle of a valley.  Every year we'll get at least one dumping of snow, cars will drive over the snow and pack it down to ice, and the ditches will subsequently be littered with cars that are get 3/4 of the way up the hill and then slide off to the side.

The court that I live in is one of the last streets plowed in Toronto.  If we get five inches of snow it's sometimes not possible for us to get our car to the street when we have the all-seasons on.  With winter tires?  No problem.

Then you run into the problem of other people.  You might be a great driver, but that guy who cuts you off isn't.  Winter tires mean that you have more leeway with your reaction time.  Or that black patch of ice that you hit and start spinning the car around on.


I'd never argue that you should drive recklessly in the winter, and slowing down is always a good idea when the weather's bad.  Considering the benefits that winter tires offer though (and how cheap they are), it's probably a good idea to just get some.

So dumb question; does everyone keep an extra set of rims with their winter tires as well, or do they get mounted and unmounted every year?



I have an extra set of wheels, yes. Makes it a lot easier. Over the life that I'll keep the car, it isn't a big expense at all.