Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 5290112 times)

tofuchampion

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9050 on: July 04, 2015, 08:37:06 PM »
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MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9051 on: July 05, 2015, 12:56:03 AM »
I have heard very similar lines from CWs about the cost of fresh produce.  I think the people that say this are just trying to justify not eating healthily.  GF and I eat very little that is packaged (frozen berries and oats come in packages but that's a grey area to me.) and while we do spend quite a bit on groceries we both feel we are eating a ton of very high quality, delicious, healthy, fresh food.  I think the health benefit easily offsets the labor cost of slicing up my veggies! =)

I have found that many of these people are the same ones that eat out all of the time. I always counter back with "well the good produce is expensive, but it's still cheaper than eating out." They usually nod in agreement.

I agree, I eat very well on a lot less than people spend on fake food in grocery stores and fast food. Waste is rampant. At a garden party yesterday, mostly retirees in attendance, I mentioned I was going to a farm to buy blueberries and cherries for the freezer. (I also get pushback on how much work this is and how costly it is.  Yet it is only minutes to freeze enough for a year, and much less costly and healthier and tastier than out of season produce.)

Retiree #1 (well-off, former engineer): I should get a freezer again.  We used to have one and buy a side of beef and a lamb every year, but we still had a lot of lamb left by the time the next year's lamb (pre-ordered) was coming. So I had to barbecue all the meat and invite everybody we know to eat it all.  Or the meat got freezer burn because we didn't eat it and we had to throw it out.  So it's a waste of money.

Retire #2 (small pension, no assets, former nurse): You end up with all this meat in the freezer for years and it's a waste of money. (I happen to know her well and she moves a freezer full of ancient frozen meat from place to place. She often mentions she has to "clean out the freezer" but can't because she needs a cooler to put the meat in while she is "sorting".  I have told her a few times in the past I would do it for her in 10 minutes without a cooler. Just throw out anything that you don't know for sure is less than 1 year old and you're done).

Me: I don't buy more meat until I have eaten what is in the freezer (about 3 month's worth maximum) and then buy another 3 months' worth. Anything left in the freezer when the new meat goes in, goes into the freezer compartment of the fridge and gets eaten within a week or two.

Retiree #1: Yeah, but…. (shrug)

Retiree #2: But you're so organized (deprecating tone).

I used to pass on information on how to manage money, how to get organized, how to eat healthy, but I realized that people already know how to do it. They just don't want to and try to justify instead of change.  So, I no longer feel sorry for people because they knowingly bring it all onto themselves.

I'm buying my first house, closing date is August 14th, and I plan on getting a chest freezer so I can get a side of beef. Thinking of getting an eigth, and looking it down to nothing before buying any more meat (except for occasionally chicken or fish).

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9052 on: July 05, 2015, 06:07:48 AM »
How much is a side of beef and how much does that weigh in actual edible meat (not counting bones)? Is it enough to be cheaper than going to the grocery store and the cost of the freezer and electricity for the freezer, and eating the cuts of meat you don't like as much, etc?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9053 on: July 05, 2015, 06:27:22 AM »
How much is a side of beef and how much does that weigh in actual edible meat (not counting bones)? Is it enough to be cheaper than going to the grocery store and the cost of the freezer and electricity for the freezer, and eating the cuts of meat you don't like as much, etc?
I have a couple brothers who have done it.  For them, the cost-per-pound of meat was (if memory serves) about $4/lb.  Not worth it if you're just using it for ground beef, but definitely worth it if you're cooking steaks.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9054 on: July 05, 2015, 08:22:42 AM »
How much is a side of beef and how much does that weigh in actual edible meat (not counting bones)? Is it enough to be cheaper than going to the grocery store and the cost of the freezer and electricity for the freezer, and eating the cuts of meat you don't like as much, etc?
I have a couple brothers who have done it.  For them, the cost-per-pound of meat was (if memory serves) about $4/lb.  Not worth it if you're just using it for ground beef, but definitely worth it if you're cooking steaks.

That sounds about right.  I've found around that price for direct-from-the-rancher sorts of places that slaughter, butcher, and package the meat for you too.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9055 on: July 05, 2015, 08:57:30 AM »
I have heard very similar lines from CWs about the cost of fresh produce.  I think the people that say this are just trying to justify not eating healthily.  GF and I eat very little that is packaged (frozen berries and oats come in packages but that's a grey area to me.) and while we do spend quite a bit on groceries we both feel we are eating a ton of very high quality, delicious, healthy, fresh food.  I think the health benefit easily offsets the labor cost of slicing up my veggies! =)

I have found that many of these people are the same ones that eat out all of the time. I always counter back with "well the good produce is expensive, but it's still cheaper than eating out." They usually nod in agreement.

I agree, I eat very well on a lot less than people spend on fake food in grocery stores and fast food. Waste is rampant. At a garden party yesterday, mostly retirees in attendance, I mentioned I was going to a farm to buy blueberries and cherries for the freezer. (I also get pushback on how much work this is and how costly it is.  Yet it is only minutes to freeze enough for a year, and much less costly and healthier and tastier than out of season produce.)

Retiree #1 (well-off, former engineer): I should get a freezer again.  We used to have one and buy a side of beef and a lamb every year, but we still had a lot of lamb left by the time the next year's lamb (pre-ordered) was coming. So I had to barbecue all the meat and invite everybody we know to eat it all.  Or the meat got freezer burn because we didn't eat it and we had to throw it out.  So it's a waste of money.

Retire #2 (small pension, no assets, former nurse): You end up with all this meat in the freezer for years and it's a waste of money. (I happen to know her well and she moves a freezer full of ancient frozen meat from place to place. She often mentions she has to "clean out the freezer" but can't because she needs a cooler to put the meat in while she is "sorting".  I have told her a few times in the past I would do it for her in 10 minutes without a cooler. Just throw out anything that you don't know for sure is less than 1 year old and you're done).

Me: I don't buy more meat until I have eaten what is in the freezer (about 3 month's worth maximum) and then buy another 3 months' worth. Anything left in the freezer when the new meat goes in, goes into the freezer compartment of the fridge and gets eaten within a week or two.

Retiree #1: Yeah, but…. (shrug)

Retiree #2: But you're so organized (deprecating tone).

I used to pass on information on how to manage money, how to get organized, how to eat healthy, but I realized that people already know how to do it. They just don't want to and try to justify instead of change.  So, I no longer feel sorry for people because they knowingly bring it all onto themselves.

Can't you just put the "old" meat on top of the new meat? Kind of like the grocery store does with all of their products? This is what we do when we order meat.

Yes, any kind of system will work of course.  Just passing along mine.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9056 on: July 05, 2015, 09:18:42 AM »
I have heard very similar lines from CWs about the cost of fresh produce.  I think the people that say this are just trying to justify not eating healthily.  GF and I eat very little that is packaged (frozen berries and oats come in packages but that's a grey area to me.) and while we do spend quite a bit on groceries we both feel we are eating a ton of very high quality, delicious, healthy, fresh food.  I think the health benefit easily offsets the labor cost of slicing up my veggies! =)

I have found that many of these people are the same ones that eat out all of the time. I always counter back with "well the good produce is expensive, but it's still cheaper than eating out." They usually nod in agreement.

I agree, I eat very well on a lot less than people spend on fake food in grocery stores and fast food. Waste is rampant. At a garden party yesterday, mostly retirees in attendance, I mentioned I was going to a farm to buy blueberries and cherries for the freezer. (I also get pushback on how much work this is and how costly it is.  Yet it is only minutes to freeze enough for a year, and much less costly and healthier and tastier than out of season produce.)

Retiree #1 (well-off, former engineer): I should get a freezer again.  We used to have one and buy a side of beef and a lamb every year, but we still had a lot of lamb left by the time the next year's lamb (pre-ordered) was coming. So I had to barbecue all the meat and invite everybody we know to eat it all.  Or the meat got freezer burn because we didn't eat it and we had to throw it out.  So it's a waste of money.

Retire #2 (small pension, no assets, former nurse): You end up with all this meat in the freezer for years and it's a waste of money. (I happen to know her well and she moves a freezer full of ancient frozen meat from place to place. She often mentions she has to "clean out the freezer" but can't because she needs a cooler to put the meat in while she is "sorting".  I have told her a few times in the past I would do it for her in 10 minutes without a cooler. Just throw out anything that you don't know for sure is less than 1 year old and you're done).

Me: I don't buy more meat until I have eaten what is in the freezer (about 3 month's worth maximum) and then buy another 3 months' worth. Anything left in the freezer when the new meat goes in, goes into the freezer compartment of the fridge and gets eaten within a week or two.

Retiree #1: Yeah, but…. (shrug)

Retiree #2: But you're so organized (deprecating tone).

I used to pass on information on how to manage money, how to get organized, how to eat healthy, but I realized that people already know how to do it. They just don't want to and try to justify instead of change.  So, I no longer feel sorry for people because they knowingly bring it all onto themselves.

I'm buying my first house, closing date is August 14th, and I plan on getting a chest freezer so I can get a side of beef. Thinking of getting an eigth, and looking it down to nothing before buying any more meat (except for occasionally chicken or fish).

Sides of beef can be expensive if you don't usually eat the high-end or low-end cuts.  The quality/taste is usually much better and you can't go back to the factory meat after that.   However, you can buy other than whole sides.  You can specify your cuts and buy them in bulk, or buy what is called a "hip" which is smaller. You can also buy from Costco and repackage it yourself.  I did this for many years (now I travel too much to make it work), and then I got good quality, good price, and only specifically the cuts I need/use, and I also get more variety including chicken, pork, etc.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9057 on: July 05, 2015, 02:05:58 PM »
I have heard very similar lines from CWs about the cost of fresh produce.  I think the people that say this are just trying to justify not eating healthily.  GF and I eat very little that is packaged (frozen berries and oats come in packages but that's a grey area to me.) and while we do spend quite a bit on groceries we both feel we are eating a ton of very high quality, delicious, healthy, fresh food.  I think the health benefit easily offsets the labor cost of slicing up my veggies! =)

I have found that many of these people are the same ones that eat out all of the time. I always counter back with "well the good produce is expensive, but it's still cheaper than eating out." They usually nod in agreement.

I agree, I eat very well on a lot less than people spend on fake food in grocery stores and fast food. Waste is rampant. At a garden party yesterday, mostly retirees in attendance, I mentioned I was going to a farm to buy blueberries and cherries for the freezer. (I also get pushback on how much work this is and how costly it is.  Yet it is only minutes to freeze enough for a year, and much less costly and healthier and tastier than out of season produce.)

Retiree #1 (well-off, former engineer): I should get a freezer again.  We used to have one and buy a side of beef and a lamb every year, but we still had a lot of lamb left by the time the next year's lamb (pre-ordered) was coming. So I had to barbecue all the meat and invite everybody we know to eat it all.  Or the meat got freezer burn because we didn't eat it and we had to throw it out.  So it's a waste of money.

Retire #2 (small pension, no assets, former nurse): You end up with all this meat in the freezer for years and it's a waste of money. (I happen to know her well and she moves a freezer full of ancient frozen meat from place to place. She often mentions she has to "clean out the freezer" but can't because she needs a cooler to put the meat in while she is "sorting".  I have told her a few times in the past I would do it for her in 10 minutes without a cooler. Just throw out anything that you don't know for sure is less than 1 year old and you're done).

Me: I don't buy more meat until I have eaten what is in the freezer (about 3 month's worth maximum) and then buy another 3 months' worth. Anything left in the freezer when the new meat goes in, goes into the freezer compartment of the fridge and gets eaten within a week or two.

Retiree #1: Yeah, but…. (shrug)

Retiree #2: But you're so organized (deprecating tone).

I used to pass on information on how to manage money, how to get organized, how to eat healthy, but I realized that people already know how to do it. They just don't want to and try to justify instead of change.  So, I no longer feel sorry for people because they knowingly bring it all onto themselves.

I'm buying my first house, closing date is August 14th, and I plan on getting a chest freezer so I can get a side of beef. Thinking of getting an eigth, and looking it down to nothing before buying any more meat (except for occasionally chicken or fish).

Sides of beef can be expensive if you don't usually eat the high-end or low-end cuts.  The quality/taste is usually much better and you can't go back to the factory meat after that.   However, you can buy other than whole sides.  You can specify your cuts and buy them in bulk, or buy what is called a "hip" which is smaller. You can also buy from Costco and repackage it yourself.  I did this for many years (now I travel too much to make it work), and then I got good quality, good price, and only specifically the cuts I need/use, and I also get more variety including chicken, pork, etc.

I've never found Costco to have cheap meat.  Large quantity, yes.  Possibly higher quality.  But similar price to my local grocery (and higher than my grocery's sale prices)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9058 on: July 06, 2015, 07:05:58 AM »
(Relatively junior) CW 1: I'm super excited that the wallpaper I wanted is on sale!
CW2: Really? The mica (?!?) one?
CW1: Yeah, it's normally $600 a roll, but it's on sale for $350! I think I need about eight rolls...

She lives in a rental apartment, and is not sure if she wants to renew the one-year lease when it comes up.
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PARedbeard

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9059 on: July 06, 2015, 07:18:09 AM »
I used to pass on information on how to manage money, how to get organized, how to eat healthy, but I realized that people already know how to do it. They just don't want to and try to justify instead of change.

Apart from the few people who have just never been taught anything about money, this is completely true and concisely put.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9060 on: July 06, 2015, 07:25:42 AM »
(Relatively junior) CW 1: I'm super excited that the wallpaper I wanted is on sale!
CW2: Really? The mica (?!?) one?
CW1: Yeah, it's normally $600 a roll, but it's on sale for $350! I think I need about eight rolls...

She lives in a rental apartment, and is not sure if she wants to renew the one-year lease when it comes up.

She must wear Bad Idea Jeans
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wenchsenior

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9061 on: July 06, 2015, 07:26:55 AM »
(Relatively junior) CW 1: I'm super excited that the wallpaper I wanted is on sale!
CW2: Really? The mica (?!?) one?
CW1: Yeah, it's normally $600 a roll, but it's on sale for $350! I think I need about eight rolls...

She lives in a rental apartment, and is not sure if she wants to renew the one-year lease when it comes up.

OMFG

You guys, some of these stories...I can't even...

Bumbling Bee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9062 on: July 06, 2015, 07:27:52 AM »
I used to pass on information on how to manage money, how to get organized, how to eat healthy, but I realized that people already know how to do it. They just don't want to and try to justify instead of change.

Apart from the few people who have just never been taught anything about money, this is completely true and concisely put.

I think you're right, but I think (from an "And I, worst of all" perspective) that people also tend to understand how to do things in theory, but can get derailed by little things. I also think people have a tendency to overestimate the importance of things like willpower and underestimate the power of putting things in automatic mode, if that makes sense.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9063 on: July 06, 2015, 08:31:58 AM »
That's an urban legend. Sharks don't have to continually move.

Need a current if they are to stay still for too long.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9064 on: July 06, 2015, 08:34:42 AM »
I used to pass on information on how to manage money, how to get organized, how to eat healthy, but I realized that people already know how to do it. They just don't want to and try to justify instead of change.

Apart from the few people who have just never been taught anything about money, this is completely true and concisely put.

I think you're right, but I think (from an "And I, worst of all" perspective) that people also tend to understand how to do things in theory, but can get derailed by little things. I also think people have a tendency to overestimate the importance of things like willpower and underestimate the power of putting things in automatic mode, if that makes sense.

There's a big gap between gnosis and praxis.

It's the same with money management as it is with a lot of other things ranging from fitness to martial arts to skill on the guitar. People want desperately to believe in a few magic secrets that make everything easy, but they're seldom willing to actually do what they're taught. So they buy large amounts of instruction on the theory of A, B, or C. But then they refuse to actually do it. (That, I think, is why Wang Yangming once said: "To know, but not to do, is to not truly know.")
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9065 on: July 06, 2015, 08:46:28 AM »
One of our coworkers retired last week. He's in his early fifties, so it's "early" by the standards of most people.

His retirement came up in our staff meeting - the response was "Can you even imagine having the kind of money that you could just stop working?"

The next topic was that our bonuses look good for this year - the response was "Great, I can take my family on vacation out of the country!"

I don't think people connected the two topics.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9066 on: July 06, 2015, 08:53:28 AM »
What an adrenaline junkie! I would be perfectly happy with a '84 Honda Rabbit

My roomie used to have a Dodge Horizon with a VW engine (from the factory came this way). My in-laws had a Saturn Vue with a Honda engine (from the factory). My antique VW Westfalia has a Corvair engine/transmission. I did that conversion. Twice the HP, very little cost. No alterations of the vehicle.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9067 on: July 06, 2015, 09:02:30 AM »
What an adrenaline junkie! I would be perfectly happy with a '84 Honda Rabbit

My roomie used to have a Dodge Horizon with a VW engine (from the factory came this way). My in-laws had a Saturn Vue with a Honda engine (from the factory). My antique VW Westfalia has a Corvair engine/transmission. I did that conversion. Twice the HP, very little cost. No alterations of the vehicle.

I almost bought a [Stock] Lincoln with a BMW engine.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9068 on: July 06, 2015, 09:50:51 AM »
Ugh, that gives off a really pathetic faux-macho vibe like the whole "man cave" phenomenon. I have the image of a bunch of dumpy 30-somethings in there trying to relive their frat days.

I've got to say - I love the old school barber I visit occasionally. I get my hair cut about four times per year and get my hair cut pretty short. ~$10. Then let it grow until I can't stand it again and it's time for another "scalping". People at work notice when I get my hair cut.

Everything is old in that shop - the barbers, the clientèle, etc. ;) It was last redecorated in about 1965 but it's clean. Heard some very entertaining old men tell some very tall tales there. I usually go on Sat morning and plan for an hour or so for my turn. Everybody is well mannered and the place is kid friendly.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9069 on: July 06, 2015, 12:40:42 PM »
me: how's wedding planning going? Excited for the small/destination wedding?

cw: well...wife's family veto'd that; we're doing the big 200 person thing

me: too bad, I think small weddings are more fun/intimate, and a lot less expensive than the big circus wedding

cw: yeah, we stated pricing things out, we could do $30k "on the cheap" but if we're going to do it, we're going to do it right, probably will be more like $50,000.

me: poker face...long pause
me: yeah, got to enjoy it and all that...thinking, sure, spending the AVERAGE ANNUAL american HOUSEHOLD income on a one night party for yourself makes sense

What i ALWAYS think of is is what a kick-ass down payment that would make on a mortgage. You'd be WAY ahead of the average family towards a paid off mortgage - which to me is a very important thing.

And there is a ~52% chance in the USA that the big one night party will be all for naught. (divorce).

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9070 on: July 06, 2015, 01:21:10 PM »
So my coworker (he of the $35000 sports car at 8% interest) has more to contribute.  He's ALREADY dissatisfied, so he's looking to add a turbocharger and $4000 rims (because those are the best rims, you see.)  I told him $4000 was more than my entire car.

And the turbo might very well shorten the life of that already expensive engine... And the $4K rims will need $4K tires... GRIN!

Making Cookies

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9071 on: July 06, 2015, 01:45:57 PM »
It's pretty disturbing that people who think like this are so heavily armed.

Haven't you heard? Obama is coming for their guns and bullets. And has been for nearly 8 years now...

I've listened to these kinds of arguments for years now. People spending vast sums of money (relative to their modest income levels) to buy guns and ammo before guns and ammo are outlawed. As if there isn't a paper trail leading the gov't agents to their door if the gov't DID decide to confiscate all these guns...

I've listened to guys setting up orders for boxes of ammo at the peak of the ammo "bubble". CW will drive up the highway (in his sub-15 mpg truck) to save $10 on ammo b/c they heard that dealer had the best prices and the best selection at this moment. Then next time it might be the next CW's turn to make the trek.

Now fast forward a few years and the "bubble" has popped somewhat and these guys have boxes of ammo they paid top prices for that ultimately will get used hunting or shooting cans.

Some of this ammo was going for 50 cents per round or more at one point. Now it is 50% less. I think I heard one say that one kind was going for $1 per round. Hundreds of dollars for ammo that will sit around until it is "wasted" idly plinking cans in the back yard. All spent by guys making under $30K per year. They above all need to be saving maximum $$$ for their old age.

I don't fear guns, and spent time in them military carrying them. This notion that a black president is a bigger threat than previous presidents to the good old boys is a head shaker though. Don't really want to see the laws change but I would like to see the fascination with them and this "angry" voter attitude that some have calm down a little. These "wedge issues" that the media and politicians spend so much time on isn't going to change anything.

I do wonder what the future holds. The minorities generally vote Democrat (at least here) and at some point in the future the minorities will collectively outnumber the white Republican voters. What happens at that point?

I'm hoping these conservative voters I live among will realize the world is not coming to an end. I don't expect any of the ones I know to do anything violent but there is much hand-wringing going on... ;)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9072 on: July 06, 2015, 01:56:31 PM »
A is 29, has a useless college degree in terms of defining a clear career path. Mommy and daddy: buy her clothes; paid for college; pay for 98% of her HORSE expenses; bought her a brand new Prius; and just recently basically told her that if she wanted to quit her current (sucky) job, they'd pay her living expenses and pay for more education if she wanted to. Until I started encouraging her to basically act like a grown up, she allowed her dad to handle all her finances. He still does at least 50% of it. She doesn't even get most of the bank statements - they all go to her parent's house.

I think I dated her doppleganger years ago. Once I figured her out I felt like I knew her life's trajectory I was soured on her. She was a good person but I knew I could never afford to support her lifestyle intentions (watch TV and shop). Was for the best (for me) when we went our different directions.

Years later - still single, still living a mile from Mama and Daddy and I wonder how much of the rest is the same as before?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9073 on: July 06, 2015, 02:19:32 PM »
And there is a ~52% chance in the USA that the big one night party will be all for naught. (divorce).
" the study found that women whose wedding cost more than $20,000 divorced at a rate roughly 1.6 times higher than women whose wedding cost between $5,000 and $10,000. And couples who spent $1,000 or less on their big day had a lower than average rate of divorce."

The more you spend the more likely you are to divorce - although the correlation/causation is probably backwards here.
 

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9074 on: July 06, 2015, 02:25:50 PM »
And there is a ~52% chance in the USA that the big one night party will be all for naught. (divorce).
" the study found that women whose wedding cost more than $20,000 divorced at a rate roughly 1.6 times higher than women whose wedding cost between $5,000 and $10,000. And couples who spent $1,000 or less on their big day had a lower than average rate of divorce."

The more you spend the more likely you are to divorce - although the correlation/causation is probably backwards here.

Anecdotally, we spent about $5k and are very happy together. Some relatives spent easily over $100k and are probably headed to divorce shortly.

gimp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9075 on: July 06, 2015, 02:27:12 PM »
So my coworker (he of the $35000 sports car at 8% interest) has more to contribute.  He's ALREADY dissatisfied, so he's looking to add a turbocharger and $4000 rims (because those are the best rims, you see.)  I told him $4000 was more than my entire car.

And the turbo might very well shorten the life of that already expensive engine... And the $4K rims will need $4K tires... GRIN!

There are a lot of engines onto which you can put some form of forced induction, but generally you'd want one that is sold with forced induction in a different model so you know it's built for it. And of course, you also gotta usually do some work on intake, exhaust, etc, to make sure it matches. I've seen some horrifying hack jobs that ended up destroying the engine. I've also seen some insanely hilarious hack jobs. Anyone else love seeing random cars with massive hood scoops for a massive supercharger sitting on top? Just too funny.

$4K for rims, though, I'm not sure what the hell he's doing. I mean, don't get me wrong, if you want to spend $4K on extremely light, forged wheels, for a car you take racing, where the wheels are legitimately limiting what you can do in the race, well, that's your hobby, even if it is expensive. But if you're not racing, it's a waste of money. And on a $35k car, another 10% on wheels is fucking insane, there are way better things that can be done to make it faster or handle better than wheels.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9076 on: July 06, 2015, 02:43:17 PM »
Not at work, just a friend of ours. In one conversation (monologue, almost) he mentioned that...

  • He's really annoyed about all his creditors calling all the time to ask for their money, because...
  • ...he's already paying a debt consolidation company to talk to them! And besides they really need to negotiate the amount down. (Apparently paying off only a fraction of your debt in some kind of right?)
  • But they better negotiate it, because he hates his job so he's going to quit, and the new job he lined up pays less and is further away, so...
  • ... he really needs to call the consolidator and make sure they'll take a smaller monthly payment. (Why would you ask about that beforehand?)
  • He'll be giving notice while the boss is out of town on training. Which he's really mad he didn't get invited to, even though he couldn't go anyway because he's already prepaid $3500 for a trip to Vegas at the same time.
  • So the boss can't just let him right away because there's nobody in the office (including my friend. The logic here escapes me.) But when she gets back he'll probably get let and then have a week long (probably unpaid) vacation!
  • But they won't have health insurance for 90 days. So better not get sick, haha! (I tried to interject that he should look into the ACA requirements and maybe subsidies, but he talked over me. Guess he'll find out about that if/when they fine him for not having coverage. Didn't even get around to asking about what happens if the new job doesn't work out.)
  • Both he and his wife are on daily meds for chronic conditions, which they already can't afford to pay out of pocket, so guess we better get a new 90-day supply before quitting day! (Didn't get a chance to point out that a 90-day supply ordered before quitting cannot possibly last until new insurance kicks in 90 days after new job starts.)

Then the conversation ended because he wanted to go get some fast food before we headed out to the (not free) activity for the evening. He turned down the freezer burritos and other stuff we had on hand.

Somewhere in there he also mentioned that they couldn't use home equity to pay off the other debts because they'd refi'd ~3 times in the last 10 years and were probably upside down. Which is going to be a problem, since they might have to get a new place so an aging parent can move in. And also his doctor keeps telling him that he needs a double joint replacement sometime soon. And he spent about $6k funding Kickstarter projects last year.

I really wish I was making this up. He's a nice enough guy, but it's depressing to listen to the way he runs his finances.

That is sickening.  I cannot imagine being in that situation and am thankful that I'm not even close.

Do these people feel compelled to share b/c they are sort of like the person standing on the 13th floor ledge - and secretly asking for help?

Help in the sense that they want someone to tell them what to do next to get out of their mess?

- or is it that they just want other people to agree that this is a big mess and everyone has the same financial mess to cope with (we're like you)???

It seems to me that most folks I've known that were in this mess would neither accept the advice a financially successful person offered "these are tough choices, you need to follow through with the suggested solutions" and "this is an emergency you need to start dealing with today".

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9077 on: July 06, 2015, 03:04:14 PM »
And there is a ~52% chance in the USA that the big one night party will be all for naught. (divorce).
" the study found that women whose wedding cost more than $20,000 divorced at a rate roughly 1.6 times higher than women whose wedding cost between $5,000 and $10,000. And couples who spent $1,000 or less on their big day had a lower than average rate of divorce."

The more you spend the more likely you are to divorce - although the correlation/causation is probably backwards here.

Anecdotally, we spent about $5k and are very happy together. Some relatives spent easily over $100k and are probably headed to divorce shortly.

Yeah, I sometimes shake my head at the bridezillas and groomthras who buy into the wedding industry's marketing and believe that spending all that money makes it the BEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE. Even if it were true, why would you want to know that everything afterwards, including the actual marriage, will be anticlimactic?

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sparky28

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9078 on: July 06, 2015, 03:57:55 PM »
Today, I had a rollercoaster of anti-mustachianism. Thought I was so close to a good conversation.

CW: Do you invest in international stocks in your 401k?
Me: Yes, why?
CW: I called my advisor, and she said that if you invested in international stocks, you aren't doing well right now because of Greece. (great insight, advisor)
Me: (getting excited about a conversation relevant to my interests) Maybe in the short term, but the whole point of a 401k and savings in general is for a longer horizon. Just look at how the market is rebounded since '08.
CW: I'm going to take out my 401k money, it's only a few grand anyway (she's been here for over 10 years). You can never trust the market and I've been thinking about upgrading my kitchen cabinets anyway.

Me: confused silence

forummm

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9079 on: July 06, 2015, 05:38:25 PM »
Today, I had a rollercoaster of anti-mustachianism. Thought I was so close to a good conversation.

CW: Do you invest in international stocks in your 401k?
Me: Yes, why?
CW: I called my advisor, and she said that if you invested in international stocks, you aren't doing well right now because of Greece. (great insight, advisor)
Me: (getting excited about a conversation relevant to my interests) Maybe in the short term, but the whole point of a 401k and savings in general is for a longer horizon. Just look at how the market is rebounded since '08.
CW: I'm going to take out my 401k money, it's only a few grand anyway (she's been here for over 10 years). You can never trust the market and I've been thinking about upgrading my kitchen cabinets anyway.

Me: confused silence

But my financial advisor said that kitchen cabinet "upgrades" have a great financial return...

RFAAOATB

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9080 on: July 06, 2015, 06:05:12 PM »
Me: confused silence

Why didn't you go for the direct response?:  "Don't be a dummy, save your money."

Really, more of these stories need to end with "You're dumb and will end up old and broken instead of living the sweet Florida retirement unless you change now." or "I'll think of you when I gaze upon the street people when I soon retire."

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9081 on: July 06, 2015, 07:02:47 PM »
It's pretty disturbing that people who think like this are so heavily armed.

Haven't you heard? Obama is coming for their guns and bullets. And has been for nearly 8 years now...
In their defense, Obama (and many other democrats, and the ATF) *have* been proposing and/or threatening stricter gun control measures.  And in many places, they *are* enacting more gun control (e.g. NY's "SAFE" Act, and Connecticut).  So the response is not *totally* irrational.

The quantities some people stockpile, on the other hand, can be somewhat ridiculous.  Enough to kill hundreds of zombies for months on end...

And FWIW, guns *do* tend to hold their value over time, so I suppose they're a hedge against inflation.  And they're fun to shoot, which is more than you can say for gold bars! :D

forummm

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9082 on: July 06, 2015, 07:14:18 PM »
It's pretty disturbing that people who think like this are so heavily armed.

Haven't you heard? Obama is coming for their guns and bullets. And has been for nearly 8 years now...
In their defense, Obama (and many other democrats, and the ATF) *have* been proposing and/or threatening stricter gun control measures.  And in many places, they *are* enacting more gun control (e.g. NY's "SAFE" Act, and Connecticut).  So the response is not *totally* irrational.

The quantities some people stockpile, on the other hand, can be somewhat ridiculous.  Enough to kill hundreds of zombies for months on end...

And FWIW, guns *do* tend to hold their value over time, so I suppose they're a hedge against inflation.  And they're fun to shoot, which is more than you can say for gold bars! :D

No, this is not in their defense. Obama has proposed incredibly minor reforms like for *future* gun purchases you'd have to have a background check, including at a gun show. Or banning new sales of magazine clips with over 10 bullet capacity. Neither of these have any bearing on what you already own or responsible hunting and self protection uses. The only reason you'd need more than 10 bullets is to shoot a lot of people quickly.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9083 on: July 06, 2015, 07:22:26 PM »
The only reason you'd need more than 10 bullets is to shoot a lot of people quickly.
Isn't that the reason for having the guns ?



RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9084 on: July 06, 2015, 07:39:45 PM »
The only reason you'd need more than 10 bullets is to shoot a lot of people quickly.
Isn't that the reason for having the guns ?

There are lots of reasons to own guns, and that's rarely one of them.  Unless you're military.

And the reason I personally don't like the 10-round limit is more reloading when practice shooting.  It's an arbitrary limitation that has no real-world purpose other than to make people feel like we're doing something useful.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9085 on: July 06, 2015, 10:32:08 PM »
The only reason you'd need more than 10 bullets is to shoot a lot of people quickly.
Isn't that the reason for having the guns ?

There are lots of reasons to own guns, and that's rarely one of them.  Unless you're military.

And the reason I personally don't like the 10-round limit is more reloading when practice shooting.  It's an arbitrary limitation that has no real-world purpose other than to make people feel like we're doing something useful.

Consider it "reloading practice"

nobodyspecial

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9086 on: July 06, 2015, 10:49:02 PM »
There are lots of reasons to own guns, and that's rarely one of them.  Unless you're military.
I thought the reason to bear arms was to overthrow the government - or at least fight off the redcoats

MoonShadow

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9087 on: July 06, 2015, 11:05:09 PM »


No, this is not in their defense. Obama has proposed incredibly minor reforms like for *future* gun purchases you'd have to have a background check, including at a gun show. Or banning new sales of magazine clips with over 10 bullet capacity. Neither of these have any bearing on what you already own or responsible hunting and self protection uses. The only reason you'd need more than 10 bullets is to shoot a lot of people quickly.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you are not a gun person.  You certainly don't own one, and likely have never actually shot one.  And based upon the above statements, I'm guessing that you also believe that the (now expired) assault weapons ban actually banned assault weapons and/or that an actual, legally owned, assault weapons have actually be used in a criminal shooting since prohibition was repealed.

I assure you, almost everything you think you know about guns is false. I have had a background check every single time I have bought a firearm, including at gun shows. The 'gun show loophole' is a myth for anyone without an actual badge.  Magazine capacity limits don't ban oversized magazines, they only make them cost more.  The assault weapons ban, didn't; and no, actual legal and licensed assault weapons have never been used in an act of crime in the US since prohibition was repealed.  Those black AR15s that some nutcases favor are not assault weapons, they are just scary looking rifles.  Actual assault weapons fire more than one round at at a time, or at least are capable of doing so, and have been regulated at the federal level since the 1930's.  I grew up in the most heavily armed urban population (any city over 500,000) in the United States, and it remains the only such city near it's size without 'persistent organized crime' according to the FBI.  I would wager those two statistics are related.

MoonShadow

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9088 on: July 06, 2015, 11:07:07 PM »

And FWIW, guns *do* tend to hold their value over time, so I suppose they're a hedge against inflation.  And they're fun to shoot, which is more than you can say for gold bars! :D

So do the bullets, actually.

JamesAt15

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9089 on: July 06, 2015, 11:54:20 PM »
What an adrenaline junkie! I would be perfectly happy with a '84 Honda Rabbit

Wasn't the Rabbit from Volkswagen, later to become the Golf?

My dad had a VW Rabbit when we were growing up. I am reminded of it a lot when I see how pretty much all cars are four-doors now and think back to my brother and me were always clambering in after flipping the front seats forward. That doesn't happen much anymore these days, does it?

My kids have it pretty fricking nice, I'd say.

forummm

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9090 on: July 07, 2015, 06:17:41 AM »


No, this is not in their defense. Obama has proposed incredibly minor reforms like for *future* gun purchases you'd have to have a background check, including at a gun show. Or banning new sales of magazine clips with over 10 bullet capacity. Neither of these have any bearing on what you already own or responsible hunting and self protection uses. The only reason you'd need more than 10 bullets is to shoot a lot of people quickly.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you are not a gun person.  You certainly don't own one, and likely have never actually shot one.  And based upon the above statements, I'm guessing that you also believe that the (now expired) assault weapons ban actually banned assault weapons and/or that an actual, legally owned, assault weapons have actually be used in a criminal shooting since prohibition was repealed.

I assure you, almost everything you think you know about guns is false. I have had a background check every single time I have bought a firearm, including at gun shows. The 'gun show loophole' is a myth for anyone without an actual badge.  Magazine capacity limits don't ban oversized magazines, they only make them cost more.  The assault weapons ban, didn't; and no, actual legal and licensed assault weapons have never been used in an act of crime in the US since prohibition was repealed.  Those black AR15s that some nutcases favor are not assault weapons, they are just scary looking rifles.  Actual assault weapons fire more than one round at at a time, or at least are capable of doing so, and have been regulated at the federal level since the 1930's.  I grew up in the most heavily armed urban population (any city over 500,000) in the United States, and it remains the only such city near it's size without 'persistent organized crime' according to the FBI.  I would wager those two statistics are related.

No, your assumptions are mostly wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxuTyXQHqkI

I'm not a gun person, but I'm not suggesting they be banned--and neither was Obama--which was the entire point. I have shot them on several occasions, including with law enforcement acquaintances. As a personal decision, I think they are not very useful for my life at this point. Statistics show that gun owners and their family members are more likely to be harmed by their own guns than to be used in a self-defense situation. While there are many responsible gun owners, I think many others would be better off with a safer attitude towards them. That's what the NRA used to be about. Now it's just a lobbying organization for the manufacturers. And the manufacturers profits the more that people are killed by guns (because more people "have to have them" for defense) or fear-monger about what legislation may happen.

And no, I'm aware of how the assault weapons ban did not actually ban assault weapons. There were so many loopholes for gun manufacturer and modifier "innovation" that it really didn't have much effect at all. It just became a political points match.

I'm glad you got checked when you bought at gun shows. Here in GA my friend was not checked at all when he bought his. He doesn't have a badge.

My language about capacity limits is correct and does not conflict with what you say. I was only saying that Obama's proposed reforms are very mild and don't warrant fear-mongering. I'm glad you agree with me on that.

Without knowing what city you're talking about I can't comment as to the validity of your speculation about correlation being causation in that instance.

Le Barbu

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9091 on: July 07, 2015, 08:14:26 AM »
What an adrenaline junkie! I would be perfectly happy with a '84 Honda Rabbit

Wasn't the Rabbit from Volkswagen, later to become the Golf?


My dad had a VW Rabbit when we were growing up. I am reminded of it a lot when I see how pretty much all cars are four-doors now and think back to my brother and me were always clambering in after flipping the front seats forward. That doesn't happen much anymore these days, does it?

My kids have it pretty fricking nice, I'd say.

I know about that, I was refering about the "Dodge Camaro" that never existed neither (mixed model and manufacturer)
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klystomane

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9092 on: July 07, 2015, 09:57:16 AM »


No, this is not in their defense. Obama has proposed incredibly minor reforms like for *future* gun purchases you'd have to have a background check, including at a gun show. Or banning new sales of magazine clips with over 10 bullet capacity. Neither of these have any bearing on what you already own or responsible hunting and self protection uses. The only reason you'd need more than 10 bullets is to shoot a lot of people quickly.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you are not a gun person.  You certainly don't own one, and likely have never actually shot one.  And based upon the above statements, I'm guessing that you also believe that the (now expired) assault weapons ban actually banned assault weapons and/or that an actual, legally owned, assault weapons have actually be used in a criminal shooting since prohibition was repealed.

I assure you, almost everything you think you know about guns is false. I have had a background check every single time I have bought a firearm, including at gun shows. The 'gun show loophole' is a myth for anyone without an actual badge.  Magazine capacity limits don't ban oversized magazines, they only make them cost more.  The assault weapons ban, didn't; and no, actual legal and licensed assault weapons have never been used in an act of crime in the US since prohibition was repealed.  Those black AR15s that some nutcases favor are not assault weapons, they are just scary looking rifles.  Actual assault weapons fire more than one round at at a time, or at least are capable of doing so, and have been regulated at the federal level since the 1930's.  I grew up in the most heavily armed urban population (any city over 500,000) in the United States, and it remains the only such city near it's size without 'persistent organized crime' according to the FBI.  I would wager those two statistics are related.

All I know about guns is this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/chicago-violent-weekend/index.html

...and this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/san-francisco-killing/


shotgunwilly

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9093 on: July 07, 2015, 11:18:06 AM »
All I know about guns is this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/chicago-violent-weekend/index.html

...and this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/san-francisco-killing/

Umm... thanks for making it clear to us that you know nothing about guns. ?

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9094 on: July 07, 2015, 11:26:24 AM »
Obama's proposed reforms are very mild and don't warrant fear-mongering.

They're also pointless, much like the one memorialized in my handle.

Chris22

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9095 on: July 07, 2015, 11:40:55 AM »
All I know about guns is this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/chicago-violent-weekend/index.html

...and this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/san-francisco-killing/


Umm... thanks for making it clear to us that you know nothing about guns. ?


I'm thinking the point he's making is that two places with VERY restrictive gun laws have lots of illegal gun violence.  IOW, laws don't mean shit to criminals.  So why fuck over ordinary citizens with meaningless idiotic legislation meant to placate the people who just want you to "do something, anything!" and "please, think of the children!"
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

MoonShadow

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9096 on: July 07, 2015, 12:15:23 PM »

I'm not a gun person, but I'm not suggesting they be banned--and neither was Obama


Well, of course not. That would be silly. He just wants to make them too expensive for middle class citizens to own them. That has always been the goal. Like I said, the "Assault Weapons Ban" didn't actually ban anything, it just made scary looking rifles cost more money (and not actual assault weapons, which already cost a small fortune due to ATF regulations and fees).  Actually banning weapons from the US is a practical impossibility, and everyone with any knowledge of the topic already knew this.  However, that doesn't mean that his "common sense regulations" don't actually harm gun owners, or otherwise put them in great legal risk; the most certainly would.

Quote
Statistics show that gun owners and their family members are more likely to be harmed by their own guns than to be used in a self-defense situation.


That is an old, and long debunked, BS statistic.  The study only considered the odds that anyone in the household might be harmed compared to the odds that an armed resident of that household would actually fire a weapon in a self-defense situation.  There is enormous evidence that the number of "brandish & deter" self-defense situations are an order of magnitude more common than actually firing the weapon.  The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of gun owners don't actually want to shoot anyone, and most criminals don't want to be shot, so simply presenting a firearm generally gets criminals to back off.

Quote
While there are many responsible gun owners, I think many others would be better off with a safer attitude towards them.


Safer compared to what, exactly?  Considering the number of guns and gun owners in the United States, recreational shooting is one of, if not the, safest activities that Americans engage in.  Not only is commuting to work in a car more dangerous; so is taking a shower standing up, nearly every team sport that involves running and a ball, and living in a home with a flight of stairs.  It's the rare gun owner that is not very aware of what a firearm can do.

Quote
That's what the NRA used to be about.


It still is...

https://eddieeagle.nra.org/

It's liberal meddling that forces gun owners (and thus the NRA and other gun ownership associations) to commit resources to defending the 2nd.
Quote

 Now it's just a lobbying organization for the manufacturers. And the manufacturers profits the more that people are killed by guns (because more people "have to have them" for defense) or fear-monger about what legislation may happen.

The gun manufacturers have their own association/lobby, and don't typically donate to the NRA. It's the anti-gun lobby that is always manipulating public tragedies to stir up public fear.

Quote

And no, I'm aware of how the assault weapons ban did not actually ban assault weapons. There were so many loopholes for gun manufacturer and modifier "innovation" that it really didn't have much effect at all. It just became a political points match.


I'm not talking about loopholes. It actually didn't ban anything, quite on purpose.  It made a lot of people believe that said assault weapons had been banned, but it never even attempted it.  Specificly, it prohibited the import of rifles with a set of specific characteristics, as well as a list of specific firearms by model. It tripled the market value of a 9mm UZI within a week after passing, and kept it there for a decade, but didn't even attempt to make them illegal per se.  They didn't try it, because the authors knew that would be unconstitutional.

Quote

I'm glad you got checked when you bought at gun shows. Here in GA my friend was not checked at all when he bought his. He doesn't have a badge.


I honestly don't believe you.  You are saying that a gun show dealer sold a firearm to your friend without checking his ID, nor without calling the Instant Background Check 1-800 number? Bullsh*t. It didn't happen.

klystomane

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9097 on: July 07, 2015, 12:23:01 PM »
Quote
Statistics show that gun owners and their family members are more likely to be harmed by their own guns than to be used in a self-defense situation.


That is an old, and long debunked, BS statistic.  The study only considered the odds that anyone in the household might be harmed compared to the odds that an armed resident of that household would actually fire a weapon in a self-defense situation.  There is enormous evidence that the number of "brandish & deter" self-defense situations are an order of magnitude more common than actually firing the weapon.  The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of gun owners don't actually want to shoot anyone, and most criminals don't want to be shot, so simply presenting a firearm generally gets criminals to back off.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/30/us/idaho-walmart-shooting-accident-mother-toddler/

Americans sure love their guns.

MoonShadow

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9098 on: July 07, 2015, 12:26:34 PM »


All I know about guns is this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/chicago-violent-weekend/index.html

...and this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/san-francisco-killing/

Have you ever noticed that neither actual gun rampages, nor the plot lines of zombie movies, occur in locales where gun ownership is both legal and common?  And it's for the same reason, because both of those story lines would be way too short to get on television.

Here's another little sad fact, every single homicidal gun rampage in the US in the past 30 years has something else in common besides a firearm, the perp was on some class of prescription anti-depressant medication.  Therefore, there was some doctor, somewhere, who knew that person was a risk to himself, at a minimum.

And yet another sad fact, the worst mass murder in the history of the US occurred in 1927, and involved a bomb, not a firearm.  I'd seriously like to know how a magazine capacity limit, or even an actual assault weapons ban, would have prevented this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #9099 on: July 07, 2015, 12:31:54 PM »


All I know about guns is this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/chicago-violent-weekend/index.html

...and this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/san-francisco-killing/

Have you ever noticed that neither actual gun rampages, nor the plot lines of zombie movies, occur in locales where gun ownership is both legal and common?  And it's for the same reason, because both of those story lines would be way too short to get on television.

Here's another little sad fact, every single homicidal gun rampage in the US in the past 30 years has something else in common besides a firearm, the perp was on some class of prescription anti-depressant medication.  Therefore, there was some doctor, somewhere, who knew that person was a risk to himself, at a minimum.

And yet another sad fact, the worst mass murder in the history of the US occurred in 1927, and involved a bomb, not a firearm.  I'd seriously like to know how a magazine capacity limit, or even an actual assault weapons ban, would have prevented this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Would it really be that bad if guns were illegal in America? What would be the consequences?

Serious question.