Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 13252652 times)

Cressida

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2376
  • Location: Sunset Zone 5
  • gender is a hierarchy
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5450 on: November 21, 2014, 11:51:42 PM »
Some people would even turn it around and say that the BA is more prestigious because it requires a more well-rounded curriculum.

Yea, I've heard that argument from liberal arts majors before, but I fail to see how fewer requirements could ever be considered more prestigious.  It's not like a person with BS was prevented from taking a well rounded curriculum, they were just required to take extra hard classes in their field, too.

When my sister was a newly minted poli sci major, she tried to convince me that her education was just as scientifically rigorous as mine because political science was a SCIENCE, you see, it's right there in the name.  I wasn't buying it then, either.

That's okay, I'm not down on you or her.  The world needs liberal arts majors too.

That is indeed a silly argument, but it wasn't mine, exactly. I guess it depends on who you're looking for approval from. If you're naturally inclined to math/science stuff, then English and history classes might actually be harder for you and you might be pushing yourself further outside your comfort zone to succeed in them. Also, is it true that the additional core classes required for a BS actually have to be more *advanced* than those required for a BA, or do they just have to be more *numerous*? I don't know the answer (being from a non-BS school, haha), I'm just wondering.

And I should clarify, I don't buy the "prestige" thing in one direction or the other; I'm only repeating arguments I've heard.

shelivesthedream

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6740
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5451 on: November 22, 2014, 02:38:41 AM »
Quote from: jordanread link=topic=2540.msg461005#msg461005 date=


I got the comedy of it all, but had no idea that math was considered "the Arts". It's kind of a science-ey thing.And by science-ey, I mean...not art.

At my university (in England) every degree was a BA. You get a BA whether you graduate in mathematics, history, chemistry or english. The BS doesn't exist. 'Bachelor of Arts' doesn't mean anything literal any more - women graduate, for example, but we're still called Bachelor and not Spinster.

BlueHouse

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4132
  • Location: WDC
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5452 on: November 22, 2014, 03:52:42 AM »
it appears to be arbitrary whether a school calls a particular degree a BA or a BS.

At all of the fancy universities I have inhabited, the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.  Like it's the watered down version with fewer requirements and more latitude for class substitutions. 

Don't like multivariable calculus with imaginary numbers?  No problem, just substitute that Accounting 101 class instead and here's your BA in mathematics. 

It's almost like a mark of shame to have a BA in a STEM field.  It means you wanted to be a scientist and couldn't make the grades.
OMG. I can't believe you carried that attitude beyond adolescence.    I had to listen to that crap all through college and I still get it at work sometimes but only from those who  are still insecure about themselves. Honestly, can you not understand that some people just did not want to become engineers because they don't like it and not because of a lack of aptitude. I got into the same school and I graduated the same school. I didn't take all of the same classes, but I took the same washout classes. You are not smarter just because you work with a slide rule. The next time you want to say anything to that effect or think it or even perpetuate it as an old stereotype, look in the mirror to figure out what you're trying to compensate for.
/end rant

Nudelkopf

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 897
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Australia
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5453 on: November 22, 2014, 05:47:13 AM »
At my uni, a BSc in maths and a BA in maths are the same thing. Same courses, same education. Just depends on what else you wanted to major (or minor) in.

Surely what knowledge and skills you've gained from your degree is more important the the name of your degree.

(FYI I have a bachelor of science majoring in maths.. I did combinatorics. Honours Class I, and I became a high school teacher)

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20709
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5454 on: November 22, 2014, 06:51:36 AM »
Going OT a bit here - and I hope with the nested quotes I got the right author.

Dogs don't need any rooms of their own.  They want to be in the same room as you are. That includes the bedroom, the bathroom, the laundry room - I feel like I have a permanent furry bodyguard.

Sorry I can't contribute to "overheard at work", being retired has its downsides.  I can toss in that way back when, while I was working FT, I took some night classes at a local university.  The students (just had their B.SCs, were doing a post-grad diploma) all had nicer clothes and fancier laptops than I did.  I couldn't help but wonder at their student debt  ;-(

Dogs need their own room or 2?  I'll have to consult with my dog tonight on this... poor thing has never had his own room, much less 2 rooms.

Silverado

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 169
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5455 on: November 22, 2014, 07:26:42 AM »
it appears to be arbitrary whether a school calls a particular degree a BA or a BS.

At all of the fancy universities I have inhabited, the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.  Like it's the watered down version with fewer requirements and more latitude for class substitutions. 

Don't like multivariable calculus with imaginary numbers?  No problem, just substitute that Accounting 101 class instead and here's your BA in mathematics. 

It's almost like a mark of shame to have a BA in a STEM field.  It means you wanted to be a scientist and couldn't make the grades.
OMG. I can't believe you carried that attitude beyond adolescence.    I had to listen to that crap all through college and I still get it at work sometimes but only from those who  are still insecure about themselves. Honestly, can you not understand that some people just did not want to become engineers because they don't like it and not because of a lack of aptitude. I got into the same school and I graduated the same school. I didn't take all of the same classes, but I took the same washout classes. You are not smarter just because you work with a slide rule. The next time you want to say anything to that effect or think it or even perpetuate it as an old stereotype, look in the mirror to figure out what you're trying to compensate for.
/end rant

I think he means take a major that can be BS or BA and put them side by side, and see what you think.

fartface

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 402
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Wisconsin
    • money apple
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5456 on: November 22, 2014, 12:14:47 PM »
My boss makes at least 30K more than me and I make 70K.

I asked her if her 403b contributions were taking excessively long to post to her account since our employer upgraded software. I just assumed - being the highest paid employee in my building - that she contributed.

She looked blankly at me, blinked once, and replied, "Retirement? What's that?"

Next, she asked me to write her a letter of recommendation b/c now, in addition to her six figure salary, she needs to start teaching others in her field at night for the extra income.

We drove to a conference together (live near each other). She offered to drive and pick me up. We cruised to the conference in her new 2014 leased SUV. She worked hard to impress me with the heated seats, auto-start ignition, and then even used her ON-STAR service to get directions to the venue.

Further, when we signed up for the conference - paid for by our employer -  I saw in the description that beverages, a continental breakfast, and lunch would be served. So naturally, I arrived with an empty stomach. I mean, it was a rewarding cash cow day for me:  I got a free ride, free coffee, free breakfast, free lunch, free snacks and was so full I didn't eat dinner that night. If I wanted to, I could even submit the mileage reimbursement and actually MAKE money b/c the business office approved it.

SHE on the other hand, called me from the Starbucks drive-thru asking if I wanted anything. I politely declined. When we got to the conference she sauntered in with not only her over-priced latte but also a Starbucks breakfast sandwich.

Whole time, I'm shaking my head...just shaking my head. I think it bothers me more b/c I genuinely like her, and respect her professionally. It's baffling how she can fritter away so much money on nonsense. 

She's got two little toddlers who she rarely sees - always in daycare - ug - drives me nuts - absolutely nuts.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 12:17:48 PM by fartface »

gimp

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2344
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5457 on: November 22, 2014, 02:41:13 PM »
OMG. I can't believe you carried that attitude beyond adolescence.    I had to listen to that crap all through college and I still get it at work sometimes but only from those who  are still insecure about themselves. Honestly, can you not understand that some people just did not want to become engineers because they don't like it and not because of a lack of aptitude. I got into the same school and I graduated the same school. I didn't take all of the same classes, but I took the same washout classes. You are not smarter just because you work with a slide rule. The next time you want to say anything to that effect or think it or even perpetuate it as an old stereotype, look in the mirror to figure out what you're trying to compensate for.
/end rant

With respect, while a BA may or may not be easier than a BS in the same subject at the same school (different requirements), if you measure aptitude in that field a BS means more.

Quote
Also, is it true that the additional core classes required for a BS actually have to be more *advanced* than those required for a BA, or do they just have to be more *numerous*?

Generally, yes. For example, a BA might require foreign language and english and blah blah, whereas a BS requires more depth in the field. You usually have various paths with n levels of prerequisites (calc 1 -> cal 2 -> calc 3 -> diff eq and linear algebra -> fourier analysis, systems, and signals -> digital signal processing) but a BA might let you top out two levels lower and instead take something else.

I'm not saying the BS is going to be a better person, and certainly the BA might be better rounded, but I wanted to hire someone to do fancy math I'd hire the BS over a BA (assuming the BA had the option to do a BS at their school.)

Once you compare across schools the difference essentially becomes moot. There's not enough context without seeing the person's list of courses, research, and work experience. Some schools only give BAs, some only BSes, some both, and they have various different requirements, and they teach classes with different levels of rigor. (A B-student in my university calc 3 course would be getting a C at best in my high school calc 1-2 course. It's even more pronounced between top-tier engineering schools and bottom-tier liberal arts schools; one teaches calculus to people who will use it regularly and professionally and the other teaches calculus so they can be accredited.)

mm1970

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10859
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5458 on: November 22, 2014, 03:49:31 PM »
My boss makes at least 30K more than me and I make 70K.

I asked her if her 403b contributions were taking excessively long to post to her account since our employer upgraded software. I just assumed - being the highest paid employee in my building - that she contributed.

She looked blankly at me, blinked once, and replied, "Retirement? What's that?"

Next, she asked me to write her a letter of recommendation b/c now, in addition to her six figure salary, she needs to start teaching others in her field at night for the extra income.

We drove to a conference together (live near each other). She offered to drive and pick me up. We cruised to the conference in her new 2014 leased SUV. She worked hard to impress me with the heated seats, auto-start ignition, and then even used her ON-STAR service to get directions to the venue.

Further, when we signed up for the conference - paid for by our employer -  I saw in the description that beverages, a continental breakfast, and lunch would be served. So naturally, I arrived with an empty stomach. I mean, it was a rewarding cash cow day for me:  I got a free ride, free coffee, free breakfast, free lunch, free snacks and was so full I didn't eat dinner that night. If I wanted to, I could even submit the mileage reimbursement and actually MAKE money b/c the business office approved it.

SHE on the other hand, called me from the Starbucks drive-thru asking if I wanted anything. I politely declined. When we got to the conference she sauntered in with not only her over-priced latte but also a Starbucks breakfast sandwich.

Whole time, I'm shaking my head...just shaking my head. I think it bothers me more b/c I genuinely like her, and respect her professionally. It's baffling how she can fritter away so much money on nonsense. 

She's got two little toddlers who she rarely sees - always in daycare - ug - drives me nuts - absolutely nuts.
Okay, you had me until the last sentence.  Describe "always".  Does she not get sick time, holidays, vacation days?  Does she work 60-70 hours a week?

Happy Little Chipmunk

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5459 on: November 22, 2014, 04:11:17 PM »
Quote
Once you compare across schools the difference essentially becomes moot. There's not enough context without seeing the person's list of courses, research, and work experience.

This in spades.

DH has a BA in computer science. I have a BS in Management/Marketing. This makes me laugh because although I am a geek, he is much more rigorous in the science/brain department.

BlueHouse

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4132
  • Location: WDC
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5460 on: November 22, 2014, 04:24:01 PM »
With respect, while a BA may or may not be easier than a BS in the same subject at the same school (different requirements), if you measure aptitude in that field a BS means more.

This is the comment that I took issue with.  It is just plain rude. 
Quote
the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.

GrayGhost

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • Location: USA
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5461 on: November 22, 2014, 04:29:55 PM »
Okay, you had me until the last sentence.  Describe "always".  Does she not get sick time, holidays, vacation days?  Does she work 60-70 hours a week?

It's not easy being a working parent in the US, especially at higher paid positions. There are (in my opinion) absurd expectations placed on you. You have to work the standard forty hours, plus more if your company needs you, and once you get higher up, your company always needs you. The pay is really great, but unless you run your personal life on a tight ship, I don't know if it's worth it.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20709
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5462 on: November 22, 2014, 04:35:17 PM »
Different aptitudes.  I love Biology and like Chemistry, so my B.Sc. and M. Sc. were relatively easy (not that I slacked, but I understood the material easily).  I would have had a very difficult time doing the course load for a BA, any BA, my mind does not work that way.  So someone from a BA perspective could say those of us in the sciences are not smart enough to get a BA in their areas, and they would be correct.

With respect, while a BA may or may not be easier than a BS in the same subject at the same school (different requirements), if you measure aptitude in that field a BS means more.

This is the comment that I took issue with.  It is just plain rude. 
Quote
the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.

boogiewoogie

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5463 on: November 23, 2014, 06:48:34 AM »
Here's something slightly more technical than normal, but I guess there's a lot of tech people here.

I work in software development, and one of the contractors working for me mentioned that his RAID6 had two disk failures and so he had to order some more disks whilst getting the failed ones replaced under warranty. As a result of adding new disks the RAID would now be almost 20 TB.

Who needs 20 TBs of disk space?! I wonder if he's trying to back up the internet. As far as I can tell it just holds anime and movies. Of course his "server" runs 24 hours a day.

This is the same guy who spends thousands of pounds of take away pizza, and recently moved to a house with twice as expensive rent.

I have tried to get him to cut back but clearly don't seem to be succeeding

solon

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2359
  • Age: 1823
  • Location: OH
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5464 on: November 23, 2014, 07:07:42 AM »
I bet the first person to mention the BA/BS thing is just shaking their head. This is worse that the black box stuff.

philby85

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5465 on: November 23, 2014, 07:43:35 AM »
Who needs 20 TBs of disk space?! I wonder if he's trying to back up the internet. As far as I can tell it just holds anime and movies. Of course his "server" runs 24 hours a day.

Hard drive space is pretty cheap now. I agree that 20TB is a lot of space, but only costs about $1000 now.

I have about 12TB of space. When you store movies and TV shows in high definition, it adds up quickly.

Legalities to one side, it can save you a fortune on internet (by swapping files between friends), saving on netflix/itunes/etc subscriptions, saves hiring DVD's (and you don't have the hassle of going to the shop or scratched DVD's that skip), saves buying and then storing large collections of DVD's, allows you to copy video files to portable devices easily.

boogiewoogie

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5466 on: November 23, 2014, 08:16:52 AM »
Who needs 20 TBs of disk space?! I wonder if he's trying to back up the internet. As far as I can tell it just holds anime and movies. Of course his "server" runs 24 hours a day.

Hard drive space is pretty cheap now. I agree that 20TB is a lot of space, but only costs about $1000 now.


I guess my problem with it is a digital equivalent of collecting more stuff. It's not a sustainable habit. A netflix subscription would be cheaper than the monthly electricity costs of running the NAS (which is actually a i7 computer with SLI GPUs, and not an appliance).








commodore perry

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5467 on: November 23, 2014, 10:34:00 AM »
I travel a lot for work. This is one big reason I want to be debt free and FI as young as possible so that I can have freedom to do something that isn't such a hectic pace if I want at some point.

So I was on a 6:10am flight (got up at ~4am) to fly to some god-awful place and the two guys behind me were talking non stop about their luxury cars. One had an M3 (base price is > $60k but it sounded like it was really loaded...probably more like $75-80k I'd guess). They went on and on about how great their cars were but how they both had to go back to the dealership multiple times so they could be shown how to use the navigation, etc. since the cars were so complicated. An M3 is also a TERRIBLE choice for a daily driver in mid-west winters.

I couldn't help but think - if you're busting your ass getting up at 4am to travel commercial airline and deal with all the other hassles of business travel and all it gets you is a lifestyle where you drive a rapidly depreciating car that costs 1.5x the average household income in the US then you're just straight crazy! I do it because I know that it gives me long term freedom.

jordanread

  • Guest
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5468 on: November 23, 2014, 11:08:14 AM »
I bet the first person to mention the BA/BS thing is just shaking their head. This is worse that the black box stuff.

I think I'm the one who asked the question. I just giggled and felt like a superhero rescuing someone tied to the train tracks by making everything go completely off the rails.

sekritdino

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 67
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5469 on: November 23, 2014, 01:04:58 PM »
Old coworker got a new job. Took $3,000 out of his 401(k) before rolling it over to pay off credit card bills. (Starting balance was only around $10k after working for 7 years!) Then proceeds to re-do his bathroom because the old colors looked dark and made the bathroom look small.

*face palm*

austin

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 147
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5470 on: November 23, 2014, 01:25:43 PM »
I bet the first person to mention the BA/BS thing is just shaking their head. This is worse that the black box stuff.

This is a thread and a forum dedicated to judging people for poor choices. That's fine and everyone here gets a laugh from mocking these coworkers, but every now and then someone here will feel personally offended because they themselves made a poor decision that is the object of derision, like buying a Wrangler or driving a few miles to work or getting a less than useful or soft degree.

Basically, some people can dish it out but can't take it.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20709
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5471 on: November 23, 2014, 01:38:35 PM »
I think there is a built-in bias on this forum, in that so many are in the sciences or tech fields, many of which are extremely well paying.  This seems to result in people thinking their field is better than other fields, and dissing BAs.  Of course you are all deluding yourselves, because everyone knows that Biology is the most wonderful and challenging science.  Physics and Chemistry are so predictable, in comparison.  Mind you, Geology is kind of neat.

Of course this is not to say that all Biologists are wonderfully sensible in their money management, alas.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming, please, I need more things to laugh at from retirement.  ;-)

I bet the first person to mention the BA/BS thing is just shaking their head. This is worse that the black box stuff.

This is a thread and a forum dedicated to judging people for poor choices. That's fine and everyone here gets a laugh from mocking these coworkers, but every now and then someone here will feel personally offended because they themselves made a poor decision that is the object of derision, like buying a Wrangler or driving a few miles to work or getting a less than useful or soft degree.

Basically, some people can dish it out but can't take it.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28444
  • Age: -997
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5472 on: November 23, 2014, 01:56:00 PM »

I bet the first person to mention the BA/BS thing is just shaking their head. This is worse that the black box stuff.

This is a thread and a forum dedicated to judging people for poor choices. That's fine and everyone here gets a laugh from mocking these coworkers, but every now and then someone here will feel personally offended because they themselves made a poor decision that is the object of derision, like buying a Wrangler or driving a few miles to work or getting a less than useful or soft degree.

Basically, some people can dish it out but can't take it.

What makes a degree useful or not?

The average salary of those with that degree?  Something else?
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

fantabulous

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
    • My Crappy Little Blog
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5473 on: November 23, 2014, 04:21:54 PM »
Who needs 20 TBs of disk space?! I wonder if he's trying to back up the internet. As far as I can tell it just holds anime and movies. Of course his "server" runs 24 hours a day.

A photographer would probably enjoy that much storage space. Likely it's just full of pirated movies and such, though. This is a fairly common thing where I work.

Primm

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Australia
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5474 on: November 23, 2014, 04:46:52 PM »

I bet the first person to mention the BA/BS thing is just shaking their head. This is worse that the black box stuff.

This is a thread and a forum dedicated to judging people for poor choices. That's fine and everyone here gets a laugh from mocking these coworkers, but every now and then someone here will feel personally offended because they themselves made a poor decision that is the object of derision, like buying a Wrangler or driving a few miles to work or getting a less than useful or soft degree.

Basically, some people can dish it out but can't take it.

What makes a degree useful or not?

The average salary of those with that degree?  Something else?

If that's the criteria for a useful degree then my Bachelor of Nursing is a fail. Right now my base salary is $71k, and that's top of my range. The only way I can get more money is to study for a Masters and get a promotion into management / semi-management.

But I save lives. Daily. And I'm talking quite literally here - I work in NICU, and almost every single day that I work a baby lives who otherwise wouldn't if myself and my colleagues weren't there. Useful? You tell me.

I think a useful degree is one which allows a person to work in a position which gives them a sense of purpose and pays them enough to afford the freedom to make choices. Soft / hard? STEM / Arts? Who cares? Follow your passion is rubbish too, my passion is restoring historic cars but that will never make me enough to pay the bills, plus I like driving them too much to sell them when I'm done and take the profit!

WildJager

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 440
  • Age: 37
    • Can't complain.
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5475 on: November 23, 2014, 04:58:14 PM »
If that's the criteria for a useful degree then my Bachelor of Nursing is a fail. Right now my base salary is $71k, and that's top of my range. The only way I can get more money is to study for a Masters and get a promotion into management / semi-management.

But I save lives. Daily. And I'm talking quite literally here - I work in NICU, and almost every single day that I work a baby lives who otherwise wouldn't if myself and my colleagues weren't there. Useful? You tell me.

Thank you for your service. 

I've had to come to terms that the most important people in our society (nurses, teachers, cops, soldiers, etc) are paid shit compared to our jesters (actors, athletes, news anchors, etc).  All I can do is laugh and acknowledge that so many of us feel safe enough that our extra capital goes to jesters rather than important laborers.  I suppose that means that important people, like you, are doing your job well.

philby85

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5476 on: November 23, 2014, 05:48:43 PM »
I guess my problem with it is a digital equivalent of collecting more stuff. It's not a sustainable habit. A netflix subscription would be cheaper than the monthly electricity costs of running the NAS (which is actually a i7 computer with SLI GPUs, and not an appliance).

I see what you are saying with regards to collecting more stuff. I have some friends where it is almost an addiction to collect more and more movies/TV shows that they will never watch.

With regards to the i7 and SLI GPU's, some possible reasons for the setup
1) It allows him to take just one PC to LAN parties rather than two (NAS and gaming PC)
2) Some people donate computational time to scientific research (called folding)
3) It may be a steam box (basically a console for playing PC games on the TV)
4) Bitcoin mining (though, it is getting harder and harder to make money from it).

johnintaiwan

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 357
  • Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5477 on: November 23, 2014, 07:15:38 PM »
If that's the criteria for a useful degree then my Bachelor of Nursing is a fail. Right now my base salary is $71k, and that's top of my range. The only way I can get more money is to study for a Masters and get a promotion into management / semi-management.

But I save lives. Daily. And I'm talking quite literally here - I work in NICU, and almost every single day that I work a baby lives who otherwise wouldn't if myself and my colleagues weren't there. Useful? You tell me.

Thank you for your service. 

I've had to come to terms that the most important people in our society (nurses, teachers, cops, soldiers, etc) are paid shit compared to our jesters (actors, athletes, news anchors, etc).  All I can do is laugh and acknowledge that so many of us feel safe enough that our extra capital goes to jesters rather than important laborers.  I suppose that means that important people, like you, are doing your job well.

Are we saying that 71K a year is shit?

I would also wager that the average salary of our "jesters" is lower than the average salary of the "important people." our view of what "jesters" earn is probably skewed because we only see the top of the top.

Primm

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Australia
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5478 on: November 23, 2014, 07:25:54 PM »
If that's the criteria for a useful degree then my Bachelor of Nursing is a fail. Right now my base salary is $71k, and that's top of my range. The only way I can get more money is to study for a Masters and get a promotion into management / semi-management.

But I save lives. Daily. And I'm talking quite literally here - I work in NICU, and almost every single day that I work a baby lives who otherwise wouldn't if myself and my colleagues weren't there. Useful? You tell me.

Thank you for your service. 

I've had to come to terms that the most important people in our society (nurses, teachers, cops, soldiers, etc) are paid shit compared to our jesters (actors, athletes, news anchors, etc).  All I can do is laugh and acknowledge that so many of us feel safe enough that our extra capital goes to jesters rather than important laborers.  I suppose that means that important people, like you, are doing your job well.

Are we saying that 71K a year is shit?

I would also wager that the average salary of our "jesters" is lower than the average salary of the "important people." our view of what "jesters" earn is probably skewed because we only see the top of the top.

It's not shit, but it's not great compared to what I could get with an equivalent qualification in, say, CS. And not have to work nights, weekends and public holidays. And not have people spit in my face. Plus there's the home town (dis)advantage.

COL comparison between my home town to Jacksonville, Florida (approximately equivalent in climate and population) - http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Australia&country2=United+States&city1=Brisbane&city2=Jacksonville%2C+FL

So my $71k (before tax) AUD translates to $46k (also before tax) USD in what it will buy locally. Horses for courses.

I agree with you about the jesters though. I have two friends who are a professional actor and a professional playwright. They both supplement their income with other work, but their "talent" income, considering they both work the equivalent of full time hours, is less than what they'd make somewhere like McDonalds.

scottish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2716
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5479 on: November 23, 2014, 08:15:58 PM »
Quote
What makes a degree useful or not?

The average salary of those with that degree?  Something else?

A degree is useful if it enables you do work that you enjoy.    (It's not useful for its educational value because you can get the education without the degree.)

Minion

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 207
  • Location: Brisbane -> London -> Berlin
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5480 on: November 23, 2014, 09:08:00 PM »
If that's the criteria for a useful degree then my Bachelor of Nursing is a fail. Right now my base salary is $71k, and that's top of my range. The only way I can get more money is to study for a Masters and get a promotion into management / semi-management.

But I save lives. Daily. And I'm talking quite literally here - I work in NICU, and almost every single day that I work a baby lives who otherwise wouldn't if myself and my colleagues weren't there. Useful? You tell me.

Hi there Brisbane mustachian :) That is an interesting site you linked.

Thank you for your service. 

I've had to come to terms that the most important people in our society (nurses, teachers, cops, soldiers, etc) are paid shit compared to our jesters (actors, athletes, news anchors, etc).  All I can do is laugh and acknowledge that so many of us feel safe enough that our extra capital goes to jesters rather than important laborers.  I suppose that means that important people, like you, are doing your job well.

Are we saying that 71K a year is shit?

I would also wager that the average salary of our "jesters" is lower than the average salary of the "important people." our view of what "jesters" earn is probably skewed because we only see the top of the top.

It's not shit, but it's not great compared to what I could get with an equivalent qualification in, say, CS. And not have to work nights, weekends and public holidays. And not have people spit in my face. Plus there's the home town (dis)advantage.

COL comparison between my home town to Jacksonville, Florida (approximately equivalent in climate and population) - http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Australia&country2=United+States&city1=Brisbane&city2=Jacksonville%2C+FL

So my $71k (before tax) AUD translates to $46k (also before tax) USD in what it will buy locally. Horses for courses.

I agree with you about the jesters though. I have two friends who are a professional actor and a professional playwright. They both supplement their income with other work, but their "talent" income, considering they both work the equivalent of full time hours, is less than what they'd make somewhere like McDonalds.

Goldielocks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7062
  • Location: BC
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5481 on: November 23, 2014, 09:44:25 PM »
This is a family one, not at work, but kinda fits.

My MIL each year coordinates a group buy of chocolates from Purdy's (fancy shop) at christmas.  Everyone gets 25% off retail and she gets bonus rewards depending on how much is bought.   This year the total was $2600 and she likely received the same 25% off, as well as $80 in credit for her effort.

My DH mentioned in passing tonight- she was invited to dinner- that the chocolate purchase was pretty expensive.


Yay DH!  1 lb boxes are $30, more for special items...

She was suddenly very upset, I gather that she thinks it is " not very much to buy chocolates once a year for special occasion". She thinks people are just lying when they mention the cost as the reason they refuse, when obviously it is just a choice....

I bit my lip.  We stopped buying about 4 years ago, even though DH loves them, because it always seemed we spent $100 on three boxes of chocolates, all gone within 2 days of opening a box.   I would so much prefer to take the kids to a movie, or buy tickets to the company dinner, even a day of skiing, versus buying chocolates that disappear!


Edited for very horrendous tablet typos!
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 10:04:11 PM by goldielocks »

Psychstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1585
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5482 on: November 23, 2014, 09:59:23 PM »
This is a family one, not at work, but kinda fits.

My MIL each year coordinates a group buy of chocolates from Purdy's (fancy shop) at christmas.  Everyone gets 25% off retail and she gets bonus rewards depending on how much us bought.   This year the total was $2600 and she like received the same 25% off, as well as $80 in credit for her effort.

My DH mentioned in passing tonight- she was invited to dinner- that the chocolate purchase was a pretty spend thing for most. 


Yay DH!  1 lb boxes are $30, more gor special items...

She was suddenly very upset, I gather that she thinks it is " not very much to buy chocolates once a year for speciak occasion)". She thinks people are just lying when they mention the cost as the reason they refyse

I but my lip.  We stopped buying about 4 years ago, even though DH loves them, because it always seemed we spent $100 on three boxes of chocolates, all gone within 2 days of opening a box.   I would so much prefer to take the kids to a movie, or buy tickets to thge company dinner, even a day of skiing, to buying chocolates that disappear!
What do you mean they disappear?  A moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips.

Albert

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5483 on: November 23, 2014, 10:17:25 PM »
I've had to come to terms that the most important people in our society (nurses, teachers, cops, soldiers, etc) are paid shit compared to our jesters (actors, athletes, news anchors, etc).  All I can do is laugh and acknowledge that so many of us feel safe enough that our extra capital goes to jesters rather than important laborers.  I suppose that means that important people, like you, are doing your job well.

How many athletes are there in US regularly earning 100k or more in US? Around 10,000 perhaps? And now compare with a number of teachers or nurses. I bet the society spends way more on them in aggregate as it should.

jordanread

  • Guest
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5484 on: November 24, 2014, 06:54:55 AM »
It's not shit, but it's not great compared to what I could get with an equivalent qualification in, say, CS. And not have to work nights, weekends and public holidays. And not have people spit in my face. Plus there's the home town (dis)advantage.
[...]

I hope it's the babies spitting in your face...

Quote
What makes a degree useful or not?

The average salary of those with that degree?  Something else?

A degree is useful if it enables you do work that you enjoy.    (It's not useful for its educational value because you can get the education without the degree.)

+1! I went to school just long enough to get an entry level position in my field, and immediately dropped out. Never stopped learning, though.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 23048
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5485 on: November 24, 2014, 07:28:29 AM »
Quote
What makes a degree useful or not?

The average salary of those with that degree?  Something else?

A degree is useful if it enables you do work that you enjoy.    (It's not useful for its educational value because you can get the education without the degree.)

I like the above description quite a bit.  I'd argue, however for a slight modification:

A degree is useful if it enables you do work that you enjoy better than other degrees.


You might be able to get work that you enjoy as a double women's studies major, but odds are high that you won't be working as a woman's studies professor.  Whatever career you fall into would likely have been better served by a different degree.

Dr. Doom

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 466
  • Age: 46
  • Location: East Coaster
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5486 on: November 24, 2014, 07:31:27 AM »
Who needs 20 TBs of disk space?! I wonder if he's trying to back up the internet. As far as I can tell it just holds anime and movies. Of course his "server" runs 24 hours a day.
Hah! 

This reminded me of a guy we had in a few months ago to provide training on some new technology we're implementing.

During a break, guy bragged that he had a massive server farm in his basement, 8 hefty multi-processor machines and even a hardware load balancer (F5), and he upgrades them every 2 years or so.  The purpose?  So he can "play around."  I asked if his company bought all of this equipment for him. 

Nope.  Paid for on his own dime.  My back of the napkin calculations put these expenses around 10K+, refreshed every year or two as he adds components or upgrades entirely.  He also set up EMS SAN storage across servers, meaning:  He's using corporate-grade equipment in at least some cases --- this stuff is not cheap.

In practically the same breath he then moved the conversation to how unaffordable college educations are for his kids.

To each his own, I guess, but it seems like lunacy to me.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28444
  • Age: -997
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5487 on: November 24, 2014, 07:42:12 AM »
Quote
What makes a degree useful or not?

The average salary of those with that degree?  Something else?

A degree is useful if it enables you do work that you enjoy.    (It's not useful for its educational value because you can get the education without the degree.)

I like the above description quite a bit.  I'd argue, however for a slight modification:

A degree is useful if it enables you do work that you enjoy better than other degrees.


You might be able to get work that you enjoy as a double women's studies major, but odds are high that you won't be working as a woman's studies professor.  Whatever career you fall into would likely have been better served by a different degree.

That definition makes most degrees for most people fall into the "useless" definition - even STEM degrees.

Nearly 75 percent of all holders of bachelor’s degrees in STEM disciplines don’t have jobs in STEM occupations.  Therefore (assuming they're doing work they enjoy) they should have gotten a degree in that field, as it likely would have been "better" or been better able to get them into that field they enjoy.

Quantifying what makes a degree useful or useless seems very tricky, if not impossible, to me.  So I'm always wary when someone uses those words, which is why I was wondering what austin meant when he said people here get "a less than useful or soft degree."

I would argue one can enjoy getting a degree and that makes it useful.  I can see why others would say it's still a useless degree, you just enjoyed getting the useless degree.

What if you learned methods of thinking in your degree, but it didn't help you get work you enjoy?  Is it still useless?

I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

firelight

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5488 on: November 24, 2014, 08:00:17 AM »
Usefulness of a degree implies a person sticks to one career. What about those that change careers mid way? Did their degrees suddenly become useless? How long should they be relevant to be considered a useful degree?

The work I do doesn't need a degree.. But it was the degree credentials that got me into my job. So is the degree useful even though I don't use any aspect of it?

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 23048
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5489 on: November 24, 2014, 08:26:52 AM »
Quote
What makes a degree useful or not?

The average salary of those with that degree?  Something else?

A degree is useful if it enables you do work that you enjoy.    (It's not useful for its educational value because you can get the education without the degree.)

I like the above description quite a bit.  I'd argue, however for a slight modification:

A degree is useful if it enables you do work that you enjoy better than other degrees.


You might be able to get work that you enjoy as a double women's studies major, but odds are high that you won't be working as a woman's studies professor.  Whatever career you fall into would likely have been better served by a different degree.

That definition makes most degrees for most people fall into the "useless" definition - even STEM degrees.

Nearly 75 percent of all holders of bachelor’s degrees in STEM disciplines don’t have jobs in STEM occupations.  Therefore (assuming they're doing work they enjoy) they should have gotten a degree in that field, as it likely would have been "better" or been better able to get them into that field they enjoy.

Quantifying what makes a degree useful or useless seems very tricky, if not impossible, to me.  So I'm always wary when someone uses those words, which is why I was wondering what austin meant when he said people here get "a less than useful or soft degree."

I would argue one can enjoy getting a degree and that makes it useful.  I can see why others would say it's still a useless degree, you just enjoyed getting the useless degree.

What if you learned methods of thinking in your degree, but it didn't help you get work you enjoy?  Is it still useless?

Yep, still useless because you could have learned the methods of thinking without the costs associated with the degree.  We live in the information age.  Learning of virtually any kind can be done pretty easily on your own initiative without the formal trappings of education.

A degree only serves as a piece of paper to stick behind glass.  The purpose of that piece of paper is to get you work that you enjoy.  If your piece of paper doesn't get you the work you enjoy (or if you could get the work you enjoy without it), you've wasted money on it. 

The fact that so few people get work in their field demonstrates that the actual knowledge you acquire from a degree isn't too important for most jobs.  They just want proof of a minimum baseline from which to draw employees.

Pooperman

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2880
  • Age: 34
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5490 on: November 24, 2014, 08:34:38 AM »
Quote
What makes a degree useful or not?

The average salary of those with that degree?  Something else?

A degree is useful if it enables you do work that you enjoy.    (It's not useful for its educational value because you can get the education without the degree.)

I like the above description quite a bit.  I'd argue, however for a slight modification:

A degree is useful if it enables you do work that you enjoy better than other degrees.


You might be able to get work that you enjoy as a double women's studies major, but odds are high that you won't be working as a woman's studies professor.  Whatever career you fall into would likely have been better served by a different degree.

That definition makes most degrees for most people fall into the "useless" definition - even STEM degrees.

Nearly 75 percent of all holders of bachelor’s degrees in STEM disciplines don’t have jobs in STEM occupations.  Therefore (assuming they're doing work they enjoy) they should have gotten a degree in that field, as it likely would have been "better" or been better able to get them into that field they enjoy.

Quantifying what makes a degree useful or useless seems very tricky, if not impossible, to me.  So I'm always wary when someone uses those words, which is why I was wondering what austin meant when he said people here get "a less than useful or soft degree."

I would argue one can enjoy getting a degree and that makes it useful.  I can see why others would say it's still a useless degree, you just enjoyed getting the useless degree.

What if you learned methods of thinking in your degree, but it didn't help you get work you enjoy?  Is it still useless?

Yep, still useless because you could have learned the methods of thinking without the costs associated with the degree.  We live in the information age.  Learning of virtually any kind can be done pretty easily on your own initiative without the formal trappings of education.

A degree only serves as a piece of paper to stick behind glass.  The purpose of that piece of paper is to get you work that you enjoy.  If your piece of paper doesn't get you the work you enjoy (or if you could get the work you enjoy without it), you've wasted money on it. 

The fact that so few people get work in their field demonstrates that the actual knowledge you acquire from a degree isn't too important for most jobs.  They just want proof of a minimum baseline from which to draw employees.

Who you know* > what you know

*provided you can at least DO the job you get obviously.

Adventine

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2422
  • Location: Memphis, USA
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5491 on: November 24, 2014, 08:45:26 AM »
Who needs 20 TBs of disk space?! I wonder if he's trying to back up the internet. As far as I can tell it just holds anime and movies. Of course his "server" runs 24 hours a day.
Hah! 

This reminded me of a guy we had in a few months ago to provide training on some new technology we're implementing.

During a break, guy bragged that he had a massive server farm in his basement, 8 hefty multi-processor machines and even a hardware load balancer (F5), and he upgrades them every 2 years or so.  The purpose?  So he can "play around."  I asked if his company bought all of this equipment for him. 

Nope.  Paid for on his own dime.  My back of the napkin calculations put these expenses around 10K+, refreshed every year or two as he adds components or upgrades entirely.  He also set up EMS SAN storage across servers, meaning:  He's using corporate-grade equipment in at least some cases --- this stuff is not cheap.

In practically the same breath he then moved the conversation to how unaffordable college educations are for his kids.

To each his own, I guess, but it seems like lunacy to me.
But what does he use the corporate-grade stuff FOR?


Dr. Doom

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 466
  • Age: 46
  • Location: East Coaster
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5492 on: November 24, 2014, 08:58:50 AM »
But what does he use the corporate-grade stuff FOR?

He says he just likes to mess around, whatever that means.  I take these comments to indicate that he's continuing to learn about his company's hardware and software offerings in his spare time, with his spare dimes.  It ends up functioning as very expensive self-training.

But to your point -- I'm not sure anyone needs enterprise-level hardware at home unless your a member of anonymous or you're doing some very serious hosting.

frugalnacho

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5055
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5493 on: November 24, 2014, 09:08:30 AM »
Who needs 20 TBs of disk space?! I wonder if he's trying to back up the internet. As far as I can tell it just holds anime and movies. Of course his "server" runs 24 hours a day.
Hah! 

This reminded me of a guy we had in a few months ago to provide training on some new technology we're implementing.

During a break, guy bragged that he had a massive server farm in his basement, 8 hefty multi-processor machines and even a hardware load balancer (F5), and he upgrades them every 2 years or so.  The purpose?  So he can "play around."  I asked if his company bought all of this equipment for him. 

Nope.  Paid for on his own dime.  My back of the napkin calculations put these expenses around 10K+, refreshed every year or two as he adds components or upgrades entirely.  He also set up EMS SAN storage across servers, meaning:  He's using corporate-grade equipment in at least some cases --- this stuff is not cheap.

In practically the same breath he then moved the conversation to how unaffordable college educations are for his kids.

To each his own, I guess, but it seems like lunacy to me.
But what does he use the corporate-grade stuff FOR?

Porn most likely.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 23048
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5494 on: November 24, 2014, 10:11:21 AM »
Who needs 20 TBs of disk space?! I wonder if he's trying to back up the internet. As far as I can tell it just holds anime and movies. Of course his "server" runs 24 hours a day.
Hah! 

This reminded me of a guy we had in a few months ago to provide training on some new technology we're implementing.

During a break, guy bragged that he had a massive server farm in his basement, 8 hefty multi-processor machines and even a hardware load balancer (F5), and he upgrades them every 2 years or so.  The purpose?  So he can "play around."  I asked if his company bought all of this equipment for him. 

Nope.  Paid for on his own dime.  My back of the napkin calculations put these expenses around 10K+, refreshed every year or two as he adds components or upgrades entirely.  He also set up EMS SAN storage across servers, meaning:  He's using corporate-grade equipment in at least some cases --- this stuff is not cheap.

In practically the same breath he then moved the conversation to how unaffordable college educations are for his kids.

To each his own, I guess, but it seems like lunacy to me.
But what does he use the corporate-grade stuff FOR?

Porn most likely.

My hat's off to any guy who needs more than 5 minutes of porn to get the job done.  :P

skunkfunk

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1053
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Oklahoma City
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5495 on: November 24, 2014, 10:33:07 AM »
With respect, while a BA may or may not be easier than a BS in the same subject at the same school (different requirements), if you measure aptitude in that field a BS means more.

This is the comment that I took issue with.  It is just plain rude. 
Quote
the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.

What does it say about me that I have both? Other than that I was stupid?

In both science and math I think there's a lot more intuition and "feel" involved than outsiders might expect.

Indeed. Behind all the hand-waving in the lower-level easier classes there was quite a bit of incredible stuff. Make up some new math to do that, throw this out cause it feels tiny, guess a solution there and check it, wtf do we do about this 1/0. Kind of eye-opening how many smart and creative people it has taken to get where we are. That's not even getting into empirical and applied stuff or so much more, just scratching the surface for most with a bachelors whether it be a BA or a BS.

Albert

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5496 on: November 24, 2014, 11:39:14 AM »
I happen to know a dozen or so professional musicians including a pretty good cello player. None of them are particularly rich, but as far as I know all earn enough to afford a solid middle class life. In few cases maybe a bit more than that.

Albert

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5497 on: November 24, 2014, 12:11:34 PM »

I know a couple hundred working actors and musicians (my husband is in the industry). Fewer than 10% of them are earning enough to cover their basic living expenses by doing their art. Another 10-20% have a spouse that provides the bulk of the household income and covers the majority of the expenses. The rest are scraping by with multiple roommates, credit cards, and cobbling together a bunch of odd jobs (restaurants, tutoring, etc.) and government unemployment benefits. 75-90% of the members of the stage actor's union are unemployed at any given time, and they earned, on average $15,000 last year as actors.

I don't know any actors here so I can't comment on that at all, but if you are above average musician here you can make a pretty good living. Some of that is because there are a lot of rich people here who support arts. Most of the musicians I know earn part of their money by giving private lessons or working in a music school. Private cello lessons by the way go for 120-130 $/hour here. Money wise the best you could do is to get a permanent position in opera orchestra although not everyone wants because then your schedule doesn't depend from you alone anymore.

And do you spend more on entertainment than you do on paying for public professions that you deem essential? Does anyone you know do so?

Depends how you define entertainment and what exactly constitutes paying for essential professions. If entertainment is just music, shows, sports etc. then obviously not as that is a very small part of my yearly budget. I haven't paid anything at all to nurses, doctors or teachers this year except in my taxes and medical insurance. At my income level taxes + insurance is ca 30% of gross income. I doubt anyone I know spends that much on entertainment alone.

eyePod

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 963
    • Flipping A Dollar
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5498 on: November 24, 2014, 12:30:31 PM »
A grown adult man that I work with brings a lunchable to work for lunch.

Another man had gushers fruit snacks this week.

Oh gawd why?!?!?! =,=;

I really don't think that should be allowed to be called food.

You better not be referring to my pizza with pepperoni flavored sausages. I love those damn pizzas.

eyePod

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 963
    • Flipping A Dollar
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5499 on: November 24, 2014, 12:46:53 PM »
Quote
What makes a degree useful or not?

The average salary of those with that degree?  Something else?

A degree is useful if it enables you do work that you enjoy.    (It's not useful for its educational value because you can get the education without the degree.)

You can also argue that a degree is useful from a financial return perspective. They can be useful in multiple ways. I think the important (mustachian?) idea is to evaluate your decision/options and not just going in blind.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!