Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 7593685 times)

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19050 on: October 23, 2017, 03:46:03 PM »
Please note how I'm not predicting anything short term.
No one knows for sure, but every available valuation indicator out there (cape, simple P/E, p/b, USA valuation gap VS other markets just to name a few) shows a high probability of underperformance for the American stock market, compared to its historical rate.

Pick historical moments of similar valuation, and look forward 10 years to see what happened.

If the answer to this is "no one really knows" then I say yes, but history would suggest a higher chance ( =/ than certitude) of underperformance.
If the answer is "the past is not predictive of the future", then what are you basing expected future returns on?

As to what should you do, the answer I would give, as always, is "nothing" (except to lower your expectations)

I don't necessarily disagree, but keep in mind American companies are more global than they have been during past periods that you're comparing to.  So saying 'looks bad for US market' doesn't work quite the same.  If there's global growth, American companies benefit from that more than they did in the past.

Seppia

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19051 on: October 23, 2017, 03:52:57 PM »
GDP and stock market growth have very little in common.

frugledoc

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19052 on: October 23, 2017, 03:56:10 PM »
Also, I had a coworker openly admit that he spends $800/month on weed. (And by the way lives paycheck to paycheck)

Where are you? I work in the industry and sell to a head shop that's run by 2 very smart brothers that smoke A TON and neither of them spend more than $400 a month. Either he's getting ripped off or is doing something else wrong.

Friend of mine smokes way more than $800/month.  I'd estimate closer to $2k, but I don't really want to know, because he's also paycheck to paycheck.  Super high tolerance and desire to be high 24/7 costs a lot.  Wake up, dab, eat 60mg edible, breakfast, dab more, roll a blunt, dab, lunch.  Dab dab dab, another edible, etc etc.  Works from home so this is every day.

What a waste of money! Why dont they just stop? Ive smoked weed just about every day for the last 30 years and I dont find it habit forming at all.

Dude....

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19053 on: October 23, 2017, 04:14:55 PM »
Also, I had a coworker openly admit that he spends $800/month on weed. (And by the way lives paycheck to paycheck)

Where are you? I work in the industry and sell to a head shop that's run by 2 very smart brothers that smoke A TON and neither of them spend more than $400 a month. Either he's getting ripped off or is doing something else wrong.

Friend of mine smokes way more than $800/month.  I'd estimate closer to $2k, but I don't really want to know, because he's also paycheck to paycheck.  Super high tolerance and desire to be high 24/7 costs a lot.  Wake up, dab, eat 60mg edible, breakfast, dab more, roll a blunt, dab, lunch.  Dab dab dab, another edible, etc etc.  Works from home so this is every day.

What a waste of money! Why dont they just stop? Ive smoked weed just about every day for the last 30 years and I dont find it habit forming at all.

Dude....

I'm pretty sure I just got high reading that.
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frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19054 on: October 23, 2017, 04:29:15 PM »
hey hey hey, smoke weed every day

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19055 on: October 23, 2017, 06:02:28 PM »
Good luck getting that 7-8% in the USA in the next ten to 15 years though.
Would never be all-cash (I have very little cash), but better tune down expectations for the next decade

Lemme guess.....cause Trump is President?

Presidents change over a decade. I assume Seppia was basing the prediction on PE ratios or something. Probably nothing to worry about, though:
http://www.etf.com/sections/index-investor-corner/swedroe-wait-youll-likely-miss-out?nopaging=1

ixtap

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19056 on: October 24, 2017, 01:14:18 PM »
CW1: Why isn't the AC on?
CW2: Because I want to keep the door open so that people can just walk in.
CW1: That makes sense, but we don't pay electric, just run the AC with the door open.

And with one fell swoop, CW1 (actually owner, but is rarely in this office) just undid a year of me trying to convince CW2 that the door should be closed when heating or cooling the office.

Dabnasty

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19057 on: October 24, 2017, 01:32:20 PM »
CW1: Why isn't the AC on?
CW2: Because I want to keep the door open so that people can just walk in.
CW1: That makes sense, but we don't pay electric, just run the AC with the door open.

And with one fell swoop, CW1 (actually owner, but is rarely in this office) just undid a year of me trying to convince CW2 that the door should be closed when heating or cooling the office.
A couple of people in our office run personal heaters by their desks because the ac gets too cold. I'm pretty sure someone has made a similar comment in the previous 381 pages but still, drives me crazy.

Thank you for fighting the good fight.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19058 on: October 24, 2017, 01:39:20 PM »
CW has just moved into her company provided freshly painted apartment.

CW: Do you know any good, reasonably priced painters?
me: No, why? didn't the company paint your apartment before you moved in?
CW: yes, it's freshly painted but I just can't stand white walls.  I want to paint the walls different colors.

She's had quotes of around Euro 800 to paint the freshly painted white walls a different color and she's only going to get to enjoy these colored walls for a couple of years.  I just can't even.

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19059 on: October 24, 2017, 01:41:52 PM »
CW1: Why isn't the AC on?
CW2: Because I want to keep the door open so that people can just walk in.
CW1: That makes sense, but we don't pay electric, just run the AC with the door open.

And with one fell swoop, CW1 (actually owner, but is rarely in this office) just undid a year of me trying to convince CW2 that the door should be closed when heating or cooling the office.
A couple of people in our office run personal heaters by their desks because the ac gets too cold. I'm pretty sure someone has made a similar comment in the previous 381 pages but still, drives me crazy.

Thank you for fighting the good fight.
This madness happens where I work.  Breakers kept flipping due to too many space heaters too.  It drives me crazy.  Just keep it somewhere between 45 and 85 and I'm content.

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19060 on: October 24, 2017, 01:57:00 PM »
CW has just moved into her company provided freshly painted apartment.

CW: Do you know any good, reasonably priced painters?
me: No, why? didn't the company paint your apartment before you moved in?
CW: yes, it's freshly painted but I just can't stand white walls.  I want to paint the walls different colors.

She's had quotes of around Euro 800 to paint the freshly painted white walls a different color and she's only going to get to enjoy these colored walls for a couple of years.  I just can't even.

That's pretty bad. Although, I rent too which means all white walls all the time so I definitely get the hatred of white walls. I ended up spending quite a lot of money on fabric that I pin to the wall for an accent color. I've had it for a while, but I think it was around 250 USD when I bought it all so about 200 euro? Plus my time and energy of course. I bet she'd get a better quote for just one wall like I did. Might even work out better than fabric (I only did that because I couldn't paint)
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dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19061 on: October 24, 2017, 02:37:45 PM »
Found an overpriced, half eaten takeout sandwich with mold on it in the fridge at work.  I threw it out.

This seems to be a frequent occurrence at my work. People will go out for lunch, put their leftover pizza, sandwiches, etc in the fridge and forget about them.. for weeks! I tend to get pretty salty when this insanity leaves me no room to store my own lunch for the day. Luckily there are a couple of us who make a habit of purging any uneaten items.

My office admin throws out everything on Fridays. She's really serious about it. One person in the office brings a 12pk of soda every Monday and drinks it throughout the week and lets her throw out whatever's left on Fridays. I have a deal that if he brings Diet Coke or Root Beer I get the leftover. It almost makes up for the wasted fridge space.

IMO, the best system requires you to put your name and date on the object.  It gets tossed on Friday a week after the date, or if the date is in the future.  If you really want the thing for another week, you can update the date.  This basically ensures that you actively want the thing in the fridge

Ann

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19062 on: October 24, 2017, 02:42:07 PM »
CW has just moved into her company provided freshly painted apartment.

CW: Do you know any good, reasonably priced painters?
me: No, why? didn't the company paint your apartment before you moved in?
CW: yes, it's freshly painted but I just can't stand white walls.  I want to paint the walls different colors.

She's had quotes of around Euro 800 to paint the freshly painted white walls a different color and she's only going to get to enjoy these colored walls for a couple of years.  I just can't even.
Yeah.  I don't thin the problem is painting the walls when you are only going to live there a few years .. it's why hire painters???  Get paint, brushes/rollers, tape.  You will reuse the brushes later.  It is not that hard, esp if you are just moving in and things are clean and not settled in.  Plus, you don't have to paint the entire room!  Consider an accent wall.

Seppia

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19063 on: October 24, 2017, 03:01:34 PM »
Exactly!
I painted all my rooms myself, it's not rocket science.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19064 on: October 24, 2017, 09:19:45 PM »
Found an overpriced, half eaten takeout sandwich with mold on it in the fridge at work.  I threw it out.

This seems to be a frequent occurrence at my work. People will go out for lunch, put their leftover pizza, sandwiches, etc in the fridge and forget about them.. for weeks! I tend to get pretty salty when this insanity leaves me no room to store my own lunch for the day. Luckily there are a couple of us who make a habit of purging any uneaten items.

My workmates will not use the milk after the best before date. Despite the fact that it smells fine. They actually used to pour it out. The rule now is that I'll take it home. Now I hardly ever pay for milk.....
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 12:30:55 AM by AnnaGrowsAMustache »

firelight

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19065 on: October 24, 2017, 10:52:44 PM »
Also, I had a coworker openly admit that he spends $800/month on weed. (And by the way lives paycheck to paycheck)

Where are you? I work in the industry and sell to a head shop that's run by 2 very smart brothers that smoke A TON and neither of them spend more than $400 a month. Either he's getting ripped off or is doing something else wrong.

Friend of mine smokes way more than $800/month.  I'd estimate closer to $2k, but I don't really want to know, because he's also paycheck to paycheck.  Super high tolerance and desire to be high 24/7 costs a lot.  Wake up, dab, eat 60mg edible, breakfast, dab more, roll a blunt, dab, lunch.  Dab dab dab, another edible, etc etc.  Works from home so this is every day.

DANG! Esp as you're in CA where weed is legal. I don't know what prices are like in SF but I imagine they are cheaper than in states where pot is illegal. That is a good point that the more you smoke the higher your tolerance gets.

$24k/yr habit.  sounds like insourcing could save this guy a lot.
My coworker grows his own weed....yes! We are in CA

JLee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19066 on: October 24, 2017, 11:13:41 PM »
Good luck getting that 7-8% in the USA in the next ten to 15 years though.
Would never be all-cash (I have very little cash), but better tune down expectations for the next decade

People have been saying that for years. We'll see.

Dave1442397

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19067 on: October 25, 2017, 06:15:00 AM »
CW1: Why isn't the AC on?
CW2: Because I want to keep the door open so that people can just walk in.
CW1: That makes sense, but we don't pay electric, just run the AC with the door open.

And with one fell swoop, CW1 (actually owner, but is rarely in this office) just undid a year of me trying to convince CW2 that the door should be closed when heating or cooling the office.
A couple of people in our office run personal heaters by their desks because the ac gets too cold. I'm pretty sure someone has made a similar comment in the previous 381 pages but still, drives me crazy.

Thank you for fighting the good fight.
This madness happens where I work.  Breakers kept flipping due to too many space heaters too.  It drives me crazy.  Just keep it somewhere between 45 and 85 and I'm content.

I've done the space heater thing at two office buildings over the years. I can't function when I'm at the point where my fingers are stiffening because of the cold. There was one office that was so cold I used to take breaks and go to my car, where I'd sit with the windows rolled up on a 95F day for fifteen minutes just to get warm again.

A friend who owns a commercial HVAC company told me that most of the issues in heating and cooling office spaces have been resolved in other countries, particularly Japan. Apparently it's almost impossible to change the way things are done here in the US, so we'll be stuck with inefficient HVAC for the foreseeable future.

Debts_of_Despair

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19068 on: October 25, 2017, 06:47:59 AM »
Found an overpriced, half eaten takeout sandwich with mold on it in the fridge at work.  I threw it out.

This seems to be a frequent occurrence at my work. People will go out for lunch, put their leftover pizza, sandwiches, etc in the fridge and forget about them.. for weeks! I tend to get pretty salty when this insanity leaves me no room to store my own lunch for the day. Luckily there are a couple of us who make a habit of purging any uneaten items.

My workmates will not use the milk after the best before date. Despite the fact that it smells fine. They actually used to pour it out. The rule now is that I'll take it home. Now I hardly ever pay for milk.....

Not gonna lie, that's kinda gross!

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19069 on: October 25, 2017, 06:54:26 AM »
Found an overpriced, half eaten takeout sandwich with mold on it in the fridge at work.  I threw it out.

This seems to be a frequent occurrence at my work. People will go out for lunch, put their leftover pizza, sandwiches, etc in the fridge and forget about them.. for weeks! I tend to get pretty salty when this insanity leaves me no room to store my own lunch for the day. Luckily there are a couple of us who make a habit of purging any uneaten items.

My workmates will not use the milk after the best before date. Despite the fact that it smells fine. They actually used to pour it out. The rule now is that I'll take it home. Now I hardly ever pay for milk.....

Not gonna lie, that's kinda gross!

How is that gross? I could argue that the milk itself is the gross part (pus and other kinds of fun stuff in it)...

Debts_of_Despair

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19070 on: October 25, 2017, 07:20:07 AM »
Borderline expired milk that may not have been stored properly (too warm), may have been drunk straight from the carton, had the carton touched by others (I've watched by co-workers "wash" their hands after using the toilet) and spent time in the work fridge with all of the other expired items.  That is seriously gross that one would take it home and drink it.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19071 on: October 25, 2017, 07:21:40 AM »
If you'd drink it at work, I don't see why you wouldn't drink it at home. [Not disagreeing that work milk can be gross]

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19072 on: October 25, 2017, 07:23:30 AM »
Found an overpriced, half eaten takeout sandwich with mold on it in the fridge at work.  I threw it out.

This seems to be a frequent occurrence at my work. People will go out for lunch, put their leftover pizza, sandwiches, etc in the fridge and forget about them.. for weeks! I tend to get pretty salty when this insanity leaves me no room to store my own lunch for the day. Luckily there are a couple of us who make a habit of purging any uneaten items.

My office admin throws out everything on Fridays. She's really serious about it. One person in the office brings a 12pk of soda every Monday and drinks it throughout the week and lets her throw out whatever's left on Fridays. I have a deal that if he brings Diet Coke or Root Beer I get the leftover. It almost makes up for the wasted fridge space.

IMO, the best system requires you to put your name and date on the object.  It gets tossed on Friday a week after the date, or if the date is in the future.  If you really want the thing for another week, you can update the date.  This basically ensures that you actively want the thing in the fridge
The best system is to work with adults who are responsible. 

My room has 20 people in it, and we have a mini-fridge.  If a few people leave stuff in there, it fills up quickly, that it forces us to resolve it immediately, but there's rarely a problem.  I think we end up having a fridge cleanout every ~3 months, just so we can clean it.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19073 on: October 25, 2017, 09:44:28 AM »
Found an overpriced, half eaten takeout sandwich with mold on it in the fridge at work.  I threw it out.

This seems to be a frequent occurrence at my work. People will go out for lunch, put their leftover pizza, sandwiches, etc in the fridge and forget about them.. for weeks! I tend to get pretty salty when this insanity leaves me no room to store my own lunch for the day. Luckily there are a couple of us who make a habit of purging any uneaten items.

My office admin throws out everything on Fridays. She's really serious about it. One person in the office brings a 12pk of soda every Monday and drinks it throughout the week and lets her throw out whatever's left on Fridays. I have a deal that if he brings Diet Coke or Root Beer I get the leftover. It almost makes up for the wasted fridge space.

IMO, the best system requires you to put your name and date on the object.  It gets tossed on Friday a week after the date, or if the date is in the future.  If you really want the thing for another week, you can update the date.  This basically ensures that you actively want the thing in the fridge
The best system is to work with adults who are responsible. 

My room has 20 people in it, and we have a mini-fridge.  If a few people leave stuff in there, it fills up quickly, that it forces us to resolve it immediately, but there's rarely a problem.  I think we end up having a fridge cleanout every ~3 months, just so we can clean it.


Our work fridge is emptied of everything and cleaned every 2 weeks, whether it needs it or not. It's pretty nice, actually! It's basically never dirty.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19074 on: October 25, 2017, 10:47:55 AM »
RE: food/fridge at work.

The best system I've seen is a initial/date on the containers.   Anyone can feel free to ditch stuff >3 days old (except condiments).

infogoon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19075 on: October 25, 2017, 10:56:46 AM »
This madness happens where I work.  Breakers kept flipping due to too many space heaters too.  It drives me crazy.  Just keep it somewhere between 45 and 85 and I'm content.

A friend of mine's company kept issuing warnings about space heaters, which the residents of the cubicle farm laughed at and ignored. Until the day the old wiring in the cubicle walls finally caught fire under the load.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19076 on: October 25, 2017, 11:00:01 AM »
This madness happens where I work.  Breakers kept flipping due to too many space heaters too.  It drives me crazy.  Just keep it somewhere between 45 and 85 and I'm content.

A friend of mine's company kept issuing warnings about space heaters, which the residents of the cubicle farm laughed at and ignored. Until the day the old wiring in the cubicle walls finally caught fire under the load.

I blame the cubicle people less than facilities.  If you're keeping a building so cold that some people have to use space heaters, turn down the A/C!

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19077 on: October 25, 2017, 11:02:40 AM »
This madness happens where I work.  Breakers kept flipping due to too many space heaters too.  It drives me crazy.  Just keep it somewhere between 45 and 85 and I'm content.

A friend of mine's company kept issuing warnings about space heaters, which the residents of the cubicle farm laughed at and ignored. Until the day the old wiring in the cubicle walls finally caught fire under the load.

I blame the cubicle people less than facilities.  If you're keeping a building so cold that some people have to use space heaters, turn down the A/C!
In my case, the HVAC system in our rather-old-and-hodgepodge building is a clusterfuck, so often there's a 10F variance in temperature between certain areas/rooms (and the focus of the HVAC system has to be on lab space that needs to stay 20-25C to be compliant).  But rather than just dealing with it, people flip out and overcompensate.

turketron

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19078 on: October 25, 2017, 11:20:39 AM »
As someone who nearly always runs warm, I may be a bit biased, but I feel like an office should be on the cold side - you can always put on a sweater when you're cold, but there's only so much clothing you can remove (unless you have a very tolerant workplace...) when you're hot. Space heaters are a whole separate issue due to the fire hazard and potential to overload circuits.

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19079 on: October 25, 2017, 11:24:20 AM »
As someone who nearly always runs warm, I may be a bit biased, but I feel like an office should be on the cold side - you can always put on a sweater when you're cold, but there's only so much clothing you can remove (unless you have a very tolerant workplace...) when you're hot. Space heaters are a whole separate issue due to the fire hazard and potential to overload circuits.
I've also run into people keeping their space heaters right next to their computers... I've seen more than a few partially-melted computers that somehow still function.

Debts_of_Despair

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19080 on: October 25, 2017, 11:58:24 AM »
https://youtu.be/0RpmwqaxrwA

I had been wondering from where they casted the person who likes spoiled milk.  Looks like they even caught them at the office fridge.  Barf!

DarkandStormy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19081 on: October 25, 2017, 12:07:02 PM »
Co-worker today shared his plan is to always have a house payment.

He bought his house in 2001 and estimates he has refinanced 4-5 times since then plus a couple of HELOCs.  Said he probably owes $20k more NOW than when he first purchased in 2001.
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MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19082 on: October 25, 2017, 12:36:02 PM »
I hope that co-worker also has a plan to remain employed, even after his health has deteriorated.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19083 on: October 25, 2017, 12:43:34 PM »
As someone who nearly always runs warm, I may be a bit biased, but I feel like an office should be on the cold side - you can always put on a sweater when you're cold, but there's only so much clothing you can remove (unless you have a very tolerant workplace...) when you're hot. Space heaters are a whole separate issue due to the fire hazard and potential to overload circuits.

For offices and cubicle farms the best and cheapest solution is a feet warmer mat. Because if you feel cold its mostly the feet (cold air down, air there moves around too, surface may be cool). Also that are only 40W not 400W+
No, the best solution is a floor heating. But that is often not possible to add. 


Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19084 on: October 25, 2017, 03:12:08 PM »
As someone who nearly always runs warm, I may be a bit biased, but I feel like an office should be on the cold side - you can always put on a sweater when you're cold, but there's only so much clothing you can remove (unless you have a very tolerant workplace...) when you're hot. Space heaters are a whole separate issue due to the fire hazard and potential to overload circuits.

Biologically, there is a tendency for women to feel colder, and men to feel warmer. There's all sorts of exceptions of course, but there is a biologic difference. There are also cultural expectations for men and women that result in men tending to wear more clothing in the summer than women, and women to wear less clothing in the winter than men.

Then add in that the temperature of the building is typically set to the average comfort level for men, without considering the comfort of women, and you've set up systematic discrimination against women. (We're talking about population wide, not individual people). There was an article about this, if I can find it I'll add.

SciLearner357

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19085 on: October 25, 2017, 03:21:51 PM »

As someone who nearly always runs warm, I may be a bit biased, but I feel like an office should be on the cold side - you can always put on a sweater when you're cold, but there's only so much clothing you can remove (unless you have a very tolerant workplace...) when you're hot. Space heaters are a whole separate issue due to the fire hazard and potential to overload circuits.

Biologically, there is a tendency for women to feel colder, and men to feel warmer. There's all sorts of exceptions of course, but there is a biologic difference. There are also cultural expectations for men and women that result in men tending to wear more clothing in the summer than women, and women to wear less clothing in the winter than men.

Then add in that the temperature of the building is typically set to the average comfort level for men, without considering the comfort of women, and you've set up systematic discrimination against women. (We're talking about population wide, not individual people). There was an article about this, if I can find it I'll add.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/04/science/chilly-at-work-a-decades-old-formula-may-be-to-blame.html?_r=0

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19086 on: October 25, 2017, 03:39:54 PM »
As someone who nearly always runs warm, I may be a bit biased, but I feel like an office should be on the cold side - you can always put on a sweater when you're cold, but there's only so much clothing you can remove (unless you have a very tolerant workplace...) when you're hot. Space heaters are a whole separate issue due to the fire hazard and potential to overload circuits.

Biologically, there is a tendency for women to feel colder, and men to feel warmer. There's all sorts of exceptions of course, but there is a biologic difference. There are also cultural expectations for men and women that result in men tending to wear more clothing in the summer than women, and women to wear less clothing in the winter than men.

Then add in that the temperature of the building is typically set to the average comfort level for men, without considering the comfort of women, and you've set up systematic discrimination against women. (We're talking about population wide, not individual people). There was an article about this, if I can find it I'll add.
This makes a lot of sense!  I keep a couple of sweaters at work. And this week, it's almost 100 out - so I find myself taking a 10 minute stroll outside to warm up.

Of course at night I get too hot as soon as my husband comes to bed.  He generates heat.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19087 on: October 25, 2017, 03:49:15 PM »

As someone who nearly always runs warm, I may be a bit biased, but I feel like an office should be on the cold side - you can always put on a sweater when you're cold, but there's only so much clothing you can remove (unless you have a very tolerant workplace...) when you're hot. Space heaters are a whole separate issue due to the fire hazard and potential to overload circuits.

Biologically, there is a tendency for women to feel colder, and men to feel warmer. There's all sorts of exceptions of course, but there is a biologic difference. There are also cultural expectations for men and women that result in men tending to wear more clothing in the summer than women, and women to wear less clothing in the winter than men.

Then add in that the temperature of the building is typically set to the average comfort level for men, without considering the comfort of women, and you've set up systematic discrimination against women. (We're talking about population wide, not individual people). There was an article about this, if I can find it I'll add.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/04/science/chilly-at-work-a-decades-old-formula-may-be-to-blame.html?_r=0

Even if that is true, and the setpoint was raised, what are men supposed to do?  Strip down to their underwear?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19088 on: October 25, 2017, 03:52:03 PM »
Even if that is true, and the setpoint was raised, what are men supposed to do?  Strip down to their underwear?

Learn to deal with heat?  If 75F instead of 72F can even be considered 'heat'.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19089 on: October 25, 2017, 03:54:57 PM »

As someone who nearly always runs warm, I may be a bit biased, but I feel like an office should be on the cold side - you can always put on a sweater when you're cold, but there's only so much clothing you can remove (unless you have a very tolerant workplace...) when you're hot. Space heaters are a whole separate issue due to the fire hazard and potential to overload circuits.

Biologically, there is a tendency for women to feel colder, and men to feel warmer. There's all sorts of exceptions of course, but there is a biologic difference. There are also cultural expectations for men and women that result in men tending to wear more clothing in the summer than women, and women to wear less clothing in the winter than men.

Then add in that the temperature of the building is typically set to the average comfort level for men, without considering the comfort of women, and you've set up systematic discrimination against women. (We're talking about population wide, not individual people). There was an article about this, if I can find it I'll add.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/04/science/chilly-at-work-a-decades-old-formula-may-be-to-blame.html?_r=0

Even if that is true, and the setpoint was raised, what are men supposed to do?  Strip down to their underwear?

It's a good question. I'm male, naturally quite warm, and even with my shirt sleeves rolled up I feel our office is too stuffy.

I suppose the proper solution would be to turn the heat up and allow us to not have to wear shirts and smart trousers. If I could rock around in shorts I'd happily do so.

On the topic of women's wearing fewer clothes than men, I remember reading the clothing rules on our company intranet.

"Men: smart trousers and shirt" "Women: ..."

Literally no guidance for women. I hardly think that's fair and equal!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19090 on: October 25, 2017, 03:57:11 PM »
Biologically, there is a tendency for women to feel colder, and men to feel warmer. There's all sorts of exceptions of course, but there is a biologic difference. There are also cultural expectations for men and women that result in men tending to wear more clothing in the summer than women, and women to wear less clothing in the winter than men.

More than gender I've found that size of the person has more of an effect on how hot/cold someone gets.  Even in myself.  I gained 20 lbs over the past couple years (on purpose) and am cold way less often than I used to be.  My larger family members are perpetually hot, regardless of gender, and the ones that weren't always large also didn't used to run hot.  So I would say if you're cold all the time, gain some weight, and if you're hot, lose some :-)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19091 on: October 25, 2017, 04:40:31 PM »
Even if that is true, and the setpoint was raised, what are men supposed to do?  Strip down to their underwear?

Learn to deal with heat?  If 75F instead of 72F can even be considered 'heat'.

Not possible to tell your body to shut off its sweat glands.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19092 on: October 25, 2017, 04:44:38 PM »
Biologically, there is a tendency for women to feel colder, and men to feel warmer. There's all sorts of exceptions of course, but there is a biologic difference. There are also cultural expectations for men and women that result in men tending to wear more clothing in the summer than women, and women to wear less clothing in the winter than men.

More than gender I've found that size of the person has more of an effect on how hot/cold someone gets.  Even in myself.  I gained 20 lbs over the past couple years (on purpose) and am cold way less often than I used to be.  My larger family members are perpetually hot, regardless of gender, and the ones that weren't always large also didn't used to run hot.  So I would say if you're cold all the time, gain some weight, and if you're hot, lose some :-)

Can't say I agree with that.  I'm in the best shape of my adult life, exercise rigorously 4+ times per week and find that I sweat more easily than I ever have.  On the contrary, I often hear overweight people complain that they are cold, probably due to poor circulation.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19093 on: October 25, 2017, 04:47:06 PM »
Even if that is true, and the setpoint was raised, what are men supposed to do?  Strip down to their underwear?

Learn to deal with heat?  If 75F instead of 72F can even be considered 'heat'.

Not possible to tell your body to shut off its sweat glands.

I'd be perfectly happy with 72F. The problem is that lots of workplaces (my own included) set the temp between 65-68F. I wear a sweater every single day without a problem, but my hands get so cold that they get stiff and painful. I feel like a general shift warmer wouldn't be that much to ask.

Although, I should point out that I don't sit near a window. The window people are always complaining it's hot while I'm freezing in the middle of an open floor plan.
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RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19094 on: October 25, 2017, 04:56:32 PM »
Even if that is true, and the setpoint was raised, what are men supposed to do?  Strip down to their underwear?

Learn to deal with heat?  If 75F instead of 72F can even be considered 'heat'.

Not possible to tell your body to shut off its sweat glands.

No but it can toughen up and adapt.  MMM and ERE have posts on this exact subject :-)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19095 on: October 25, 2017, 05:07:39 PM »
As someone who nearly always runs warm, I may be a bit biased, but I feel like an office should be on the cold side - you can always put on a sweater when you're cold, but there's only so much clothing you can remove (unless you have a very tolerant workplace...) when you're hot. Space heaters are a whole separate issue due to the fire hazard and potential to overload circuits.

This is a bit sexist. Women donít have as many options as men in professional outfit choices to have warm attire. Added to that women tend to physically be smaller and that their cloths tend to be thinner, it becomes really unfair to women. Google ďAC is sexistĒ for further insight.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19096 on: October 25, 2017, 05:38:26 PM »
This is a bit sexist. Women donít have as many options as men in professional outfit choices to have warm attire. Added to that women tend to physically be smaller and that their cloths tend to be thinner, it becomes really unfair to women. Google ďAC is sexistĒ for further insight.

I didn't mention anything about gender or dress codes, so that certainly wasn't my intention. I work in a casual office where both men & women wear roughly the same thing- typically shorts & t-shirts in summer and jeans & hoodies in winter.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19097 on: October 25, 2017, 05:56:17 PM »
This is a bit sexist. Women donít have as many options as men in professional outfit choices to have warm attire. Added to that women tend to physically be smaller and that their cloths tend to be thinner, it becomes really unfair to women. Google ďAC is sexistĒ for further insight.

I didn't mention anything about gender or dress codes, so that certainly wasn't my intention. I work in a casual office where both men & women wear roughly the same thing- typically shorts & t-shirts in summer and jeans & hoodies in winter.

In a casual work environment, I definitely agree with you. When you get into the business casual range it does become harder. Grab a random men's and women's shirt for work and the men's will be notably thicker. I shop specifically for work shirts that can be worn with an undershirt (harder than you would think!) so that I can have that extra layer.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19098 on: October 25, 2017, 07:09:03 PM »
Even if that is true, and the setpoint was raised, what are men supposed to do?  Strip down to their underwear?

Learn to deal with heat?  If 75F instead of 72F can even be considered 'heat'.

Not possible to tell your body to shut off its sweat glands.

I'd be perfectly happy with 72F. The problem is that lots of workplaces (my own included) set the temp between 65-68F. I wear a sweater every single day without a problem, but my hands get so cold that they get stiff and painful.
I used to work in Houston.  The office was really cold, so I put in a request to have the temperature checked.  The maintenance guys came out and measured it with a fancy gizmo, and came up with 62 F.  They said "yeah, that's normal.  We try to keep it at 62-64 degrees."

I kept our thermostat at home at 75F at least.  I could have acclimated to either, but it was really tough to switch between the two twice per day.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19099 on: October 25, 2017, 07:10:30 PM »
Yup I don't mind wearing a sweeter, but when I have to break out gloves to work on my computer that's when I complain.