Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8883431 times)

pbkmaine

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18800 on: October 11, 2017, 05:48:41 AM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

That's phenomenal. Generally groceries take me at least two hours, even if the available stores are only 5 to 15 minutes away by car. That's because the products are scattered higgledy-piggledy all over the store, deliberately, so you have to hunt for them and spend more time picking through things you don't need, don't want, and have no intention of buying. The cash registers are mostly unoccupied because Wal-Mart doesn't believe in human staff, the DIY checkout counters are invariably bogged down because the chip card readers are fragile and broken or someone is trying to buy alcohol, cigarettes, a R-rated DVD, something related to birth control, razor blades, or something else that requires professional help. It takes me 30-40 minutes just to get through the checkout line! That's why I refuse to go grocery shopping more than once a week. My daughter still doesn't understand why I can't "JUST slip out to the grocery store on the way home from work because it's NO BIG DEAL" on a daily or near-daily basis. Each such slippage takes more than an hour of my time, and she's unwilling to help with the shopping process since it's not something that interests her and she doesn't think it's an effective use of her time, which she considers to be far more valuable than mine. So she refuses to write down the things she wants onto a grocery list, when I ask if she has any special requests for food or toiletries she says "no, I don't need anything", and then a day later she bitches me out when I don't magically guess what she wants or needs, and throws a tantrum if I don't run out and get what she wants now-now-now. If I'm busy with something else and can't drop everything to run the errand for her immediately, she flies into a snit and runs around telling other people I don't support her and she "has to" buy everything she needs because I'm oh-so-cheap.

There used to be a grocery store about 3 miles from me, with well trained cashiers who had been doing their jobs for years and who knew what they were doing. But a Wal-Mart sleazed into the neighborhood despite having a super-center less than 2 miles away. They greased some palms with the liquor control board to get a booze-selling license the neighborhood didn't want them to have, and put the mom-and-pop place out of business because a sizable amount of their business depended on booze sales. So now although the "neighborhood market" is closer, it's basically a glorified convenience store and you have to go to at least two places to get groceries or else drive at least five or six miles out of the way. The groceries are Wal-Groceries, so basic things I need such as cheesecloth and the right kind of pectin simply aren't available anymore.

Other things that can't actually be successfully bought, but that are present in the grocery store, include most kinds of frozen food. When it thaws before you can get it through the checkout line, you can't buy things like ice cream. Well, you can put it in your cart, head for the checkout line, and by the time you physically get it out of the store it's liquid. If you try to go when the lines are shorter, there won't be any managers available to fix the invariable screw-up when the cashier forgets to cancel the order ahead of yours before beginning and needs a manager to override the mistake. Cashiers aren't given the authority to void transactions, and there's no way to page a manager because they're "roaming". So you, or someone ahead of you, has to wait until the manager finishes up a break, or a personal conversation, or something else. I've walked away from two Wal-marts in the past month and left groceries in the cart for return or on the conveyor belt, simply because after half an hour to 45 minutes of standing in line it was still simply impossible to check out. I haven't seen such retail inefficiency since I visited the USSR late in the Gorbachev administration. But the option of going somewhere else simply doesn't exist. Wal-Monopoly has that part of the city completely tied up and there simply aren't other places to get groceries.

Highly recommend Aldi. It sounds like if there's one that's within a 30min drive it may be quicker for you to do that. I'm usually in/out with a week or two of groceries in 15min.

I find that timing it right and planning is really important for getting in and out of a grocery store quickly. I switched from Sunday's to after work on Monday's and that cut my shopping time in half. If you're a meal planner like me then you can organize your list by what should be close together at the store (tomato sauces are usually near noodles & rice, bread is usually inexplicably near snack foods) that cuts down on a lot of time too. The grocery is one of those places you really get to know :) it causes irrational anger when they move things around.
Some great responses!

TGS, it took me a while to adjust to shopping here in Vienna - many small supermarkets scattered all around, and kitchens+refrigerators are small as well, so instead of a hypermarket run once a month (~2 hours) you go to the small supermarket twice a week in ~10 min. This change has led me to eating way more fresh fruit, vegetables and meat which is nice.
On the negative side, this has led to me spontaneously running out to buy ice cream since it only takes 15min if the checkout like is short.

Hofer, which is the Austrian Aldi, is particularly amazing - in n out in under 10 min sometimes with 20 items.

I'm from the Chicago region of the US but staying in Vienna on the weekend as part of a two-week work trip. Any suggestions for a 29-year old man with no plan, cheap, likes history, loves activity, and no language skills?

https://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=Attractions&find_loc=Vienna%2C+Wien%2C+Austria&ns=1

Just walking around the Innere Stadt, which has so much history, will give you a lot to look at. It’s the area around St Stephan’s Cathedral, called “Stephansdom” in German.

farfromfire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18801 on: October 11, 2017, 06:55:29 AM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

That's phenomenal. Generally groceries take me at least two hours, even if the available stores are only 5 to 15 minutes away by car. That's because the products are scattered higgledy-piggledy all over the store, deliberately, so you have to hunt for them and spend more time picking through things you don't need, don't want, and have no intention of buying. The cash registers are mostly unoccupied because Wal-Mart doesn't believe in human staff, the DIY checkout counters are invariably bogged down because the chip card readers are fragile and broken or someone is trying to buy alcohol, cigarettes, a R-rated DVD, something related to birth control, razor blades, or something else that requires professional help. It takes me 30-40 minutes just to get through the checkout line! That's why I refuse to go grocery shopping more than once a week. My daughter still doesn't understand why I can't "JUST slip out to the grocery store on the way home from work because it's NO BIG DEAL" on a daily or near-daily basis. Each such slippage takes more than an hour of my time, and she's unwilling to help with the shopping process since it's not something that interests her and she doesn't think it's an effective use of her time, which she considers to be far more valuable than mine. So she refuses to write down the things she wants onto a grocery list, when I ask if she has any special requests for food or toiletries she says "no, I don't need anything", and then a day later she bitches me out when I don't magically guess what she wants or needs, and throws a tantrum if I don't run out and get what she wants now-now-now. If I'm busy with something else and can't drop everything to run the errand for her immediately, she flies into a snit and runs around telling other people I don't support her and she "has to" buy everything she needs because I'm oh-so-cheap.

There used to be a grocery store about 3 miles from me, with well trained cashiers who had been doing their jobs for years and who knew what they were doing. But a Wal-Mart sleazed into the neighborhood despite having a super-center less than 2 miles away. They greased some palms with the liquor control board to get a booze-selling license the neighborhood didn't want them to have, and put the mom-and-pop place out of business because a sizable amount of their business depended on booze sales. So now although the "neighborhood market" is closer, it's basically a glorified convenience store and you have to go to at least two places to get groceries or else drive at least five or six miles out of the way. The groceries are Wal-Groceries, so basic things I need such as cheesecloth and the right kind of pectin simply aren't available anymore.

Other things that can't actually be successfully bought, but that are present in the grocery store, include most kinds of frozen food. When it thaws before you can get it through the checkout line, you can't buy things like ice cream. Well, you can put it in your cart, head for the checkout line, and by the time you physically get it out of the store it's liquid. If you try to go when the lines are shorter, there won't be any managers available to fix the invariable screw-up when the cashier forgets to cancel the order ahead of yours before beginning and needs a manager to override the mistake. Cashiers aren't given the authority to void transactions, and there's no way to page a manager because they're "roaming". So you, or someone ahead of you, has to wait until the manager finishes up a break, or a personal conversation, or something else. I've walked away from two Wal-marts in the past month and left groceries in the cart for return or on the conveyor belt, simply because after half an hour to 45 minutes of standing in line it was still simply impossible to check out. I haven't seen such retail inefficiency since I visited the USSR late in the Gorbachev administration. But the option of going somewhere else simply doesn't exist. Wal-Monopoly has that part of the city completely tied up and there simply aren't other places to get groceries.

Highly recommend Aldi. It sounds like if there's one that's within a 30min drive it may be quicker for you to do that. I'm usually in/out with a week or two of groceries in 15min.

I find that timing it right and planning is really important for getting in and out of a grocery store quickly. I switched from Sunday's to after work on Monday's and that cut my shopping time in half. If you're a meal planner like me then you can organize your list by what should be close together at the store (tomato sauces are usually near noodles & rice, bread is usually inexplicably near snack foods) that cuts down on a lot of time too. The grocery is one of those places you really get to know :) it causes irrational anger when they move things around.
Some great responses!

TGS, it took me a while to adjust to shopping here in Vienna - many small supermarkets scattered all around, and kitchens+refrigerators are small as well, so instead of a hypermarket run once a month (~2 hours) you go to the small supermarket twice a week in ~10 min. This change has led me to eating way more fresh fruit, vegetables and meat which is nice.
On the negative side, this has led to me spontaneously running out to buy ice cream since it only takes 15min if the checkout like is short.

Hofer, which is the Austrian Aldi, is particularly amazing - in n out in under 10 min sometimes with 20 items.

I'm from the Chicago region of the US but staying in Vienna on the weekend as part of a two-week work trip. Any suggestions for a 29-year old man with no plan, cheap, likes history, loves activity, and no language skills?
Cool!

Weather permitting:
* Walking along the canal
* Walking through the Prater central park
* Park Belvedere, along with the art museum inside (haven't been but heard great things)
* You can rent a bike for almost free from citybikewien.at (have to sign up with credit card) - free for under an hour, a few euros for a few hours so you can bike around town.
* Take a self-guided tour in the 1st district/Innere Stadt. Stephansdom is nice but beware of the annoying costumed dudes.
* There are "official" walks marked by the city, unfortunately the information is sparse and in German.

Vienna has some good museums but they cost a fair amount of money (>10 EUR) and there's enough to see for free outside as long as it's not raining heavily.

General tips:
* Most food in the 1st district is overpriced, in general restaurants aren't cheap but there are exceptions. Don't order anything you don't understand unless you are adventurous, I recently ate a pile of lungs doing just that.
* Beer on tap is nearly always between 3.5-4.9 EUR for 500ml
* Almost all "commercial" beer is good so not much of a craft scene, there is a nice craft beer bar in the 1st
* Public transportation is awesome and integrated into Google Maps

If you have time for a beer or a few PM me [29-year old man here too]. Same if you need bar/club/restaurant recommendations.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18802 on: October 11, 2017, 08:20:11 AM »
I tend to go to the Jewel (Illinois equivalent to Safeway). I prefer to do my hopping at 9 or 10 AM, before the store gets really busy. I'm usually awake by 5:30, so no real struggle there.

It's well laid out and not big, so it's easy to navigate. On the other hand, they have limited SKUs, which puts the hurt on a few things, especially in the produce section. Can't find celery root or daikon there, for instance. No dashi, either.
Jewel is a weird grocery store.  It's smaller than Walmart/Meijer, so the selection is a little worse (for the most part - I can never find a head of red leaf lettuce at Walmart, but Jewel always has it), and the prices are a little higher (a lot higher on some things).  Their meat is worse than Walmart (at least their chicken - haven't gotten my beef/pork from a grocery store in a while because I'm a pretentious asshat) despite costing more money.  It's an odd mix of trying to be a cheap grocery store and trying to be Whole Foods.  They got rid of the self checkout sometime last year, so it's no longer reliably an efficient quick stop.

Meijer is probably my favorite grocery store in our area.  Good prices, just "fancy" enough to have a good selection of weird stuff I might be interested in, good quality produce/meat, well laid-out, and it has self checkout. 

I liked Shop and Save for a while, but I've gotten bad (bad as in rotten) meat from them so I just avoid it entirely.

Aldi's savings I find to not be worth the trip except occasionally.

I haven't given Meijer's a shot. My Michigan friends love it, but it looks like a generic big box to me, and I've had negative opinions on the big boxes ever since I bought a pair of shoes that fell apart within 2 days.

Decent sales at Jewel happen often enough that I can hit all my essentials and not get much of a premium. A lot of the standard prices are ridiculous...the biggest annoyance for me is the lack of selection on certain things, and I also hate the meat section! My Dad is a butcher, though, so I get meat from him.

Also Jewel really saturates the market around me. we have 4 or 5 Jewels within 2 miles and nothing else besides a Mariano's. The Mariano's is much more difficult to navigate due to the way the outlots and traffic flow are set up.

Inaya

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18803 on: October 11, 2017, 08:44:36 AM »
I tend to go to the Jewel (Illinois equivalent to Safeway). I prefer to do my hopping at 9 or 10 AM, before the store gets really busy. I'm usually awake by 5:30, so no real struggle there.

It's well laid out and not big, so it's easy to navigate. On the other hand, they have limited SKUs, which puts the hurt on a few things, especially in the produce section. Can't find celery root or daikon there, for instance. No dashi, either.
Jewel is a weird grocery store.  It's smaller than Walmart/Meijer, so the selection is a little worse (for the most part - I can never find a head of red leaf lettuce at Walmart, but Jewel always has it), and the prices are a little higher (a lot higher on some things).  Their meat is worse than Walmart (at least their chicken - haven't gotten my beef/pork from a grocery store in a while because I'm a pretentious asshat) despite costing more money.  It's an odd mix of trying to be a cheap grocery store and trying to be Whole Foods.  They got rid of the self checkout sometime last year, so it's no longer reliably an efficient quick stop.

Meijer is probably my favorite grocery store in our area.  Good prices, just "fancy" enough to have a good selection of weird stuff I might be interested in, good quality produce/meat, well laid-out, and it has self checkout. 

I liked Shop and Save for a while, but I've gotten bad (bad as in rotten) meat from them so I just avoid it entirely.

Aldi's savings I find to not be worth the trip except occasionally.

I haven't given Meijer's a shot. My Michigan friends love it, but it looks like a generic big box to me, and I've had negative opinions on the big boxes ever since I bought a pair of shoes that fell apart within 2 days.

Decent sales at Jewel happen often enough that I can hit all my essentials and not get much of a premium. A lot of the standard prices are ridiculous...the biggest annoyance for me is the lack of selection on certain things, and I also hate the meat section! My Dad is a butcher, though, so I get meat from him.

Also Jewel really saturates the market around me. we have 4 or 5 Jewels within 2 miles and nothing else besides a Mariano's. The Mariano's is much more difficult to navigate due to the way the outlots and traffic flow are set up.
I love Meijer, but there aren't any anywhere near me. I really like Mariano's, but the nearest is a mile-ish away, and that's a pretty long way to carry groceries (I don't bike). I have a really awful Jewel two blocks from me (even worse than average, and it's like they actively work to make it worse), two Whole Foods within four blocks, and a Trader Joes three blocks away. Ideally, I avoid all four and shop at the Aldi and MarketPlace in Skokie. They're on my way home (Yellow Line), better prices than downtown for most things, and interesting/exotic ingredients. And dirt-cheap bulk spices. Can't really buy meat there, since it's an hour home from there, but I can get it elsewhere.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18804 on: October 11, 2017, 09:07:11 AM »
A somewhat depressing discussion with a coworker yesterday.  I work at a startup, and we pretty much run out of money every 2 years. This is one of those years.  Each time it happens, it gets more and more iffy as to whether we will weather it.

I'm not sure why I stay, really, since all this means I've gotten 1 raise since 2011 and my pay is currently 76% of the median.  But I do have a great boss, so there's that.

We chatted about the lack of money and the possibility that
A: there might be layoffs, which seem to happen whenever we run out of money and
B: we might just go under this time

He asked if we needed my salary and I said "no, not really.  I mean, we used to, but my husband actually gets raises and bonuses.  It wouldn't be awesome, but we could handle it.  I also know a lot of people it town, so I could get a job.  Probably within 6 months. Might pay even less than this one, might not be a job that is climbing the ladder, but I'd be fine."

He mentioned it was different for him.  Which, of course.  At his age (later 50s) vs mine (later 40s), it's harder to get hired.  And he's the breadwinner.  He's also a great guy and awesome at his job.

Anyway, the whole conversation depressed me.

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18805 on: October 11, 2017, 09:48:17 AM »

Bringing back some orange foam, from maybe not even this thread.  There was discussion about leaving your car running while pumping gas...  Over the weekend I got some gas, and a police officer did the same, but kept his car running while he got his.  So I'm guessing it's at least legal to do.

Hello - PSA - Please never assume just because a police officer does something that it is legal. In this case, it's not illegal to refuel, but cops are humans - that means some of them are fucking amazing and some of them are criminal piece of shits. Never assume they are abiding by the regulations or laws in place.

Here in Georgia, it's illegal to text and drive - but not for cops. They are cooler than you and me.

firelight

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18806 on: October 11, 2017, 09:56:05 AM »
A somewhat depressing discussion with a coworker yesterday.  I work at a startup, and we pretty much run out of money every 2 years. This is one of those years.  Each time it happens, it gets more and more iffy as to whether we will weather it.

I'm not sure why I stay, really, since all this means I've gotten 1 raise since 2011 and my pay is currently 76% of the median.  But I do have a great boss, so there's that.

We chatted about the lack of money and the possibility that
A: there might be layoffs, which seem to happen whenever we run out of money and
B: we might just go under this time

He asked if we needed my salary and I said "no, not really.  I mean, we used to, but my husband actually gets raises and bonuses.  It wouldn't be awesome, but we could handle it.  I also know a lot of people it town, so I could get a job.  Probably within 6 months. Might pay even less than this one, might not be a job that is climbing the ladder, but I'd be fine."

He mentioned it was different for him.  Which, of course.  At his age (later 50s) vs mine (later 40s), it's harder to get hired.  And he's the breadwinner.  He's also a great guy and awesome at his job.

Anyway, the whole conversation depressed me.
That is depressing. Why is he in a startup if that is the case? He knows startups are way more risky and volatile. If he doesn't have a backup plan, why even be there?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18807 on: October 11, 2017, 10:12:59 AM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.

Tom Bri

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18808 on: October 11, 2017, 10:59:39 AM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.

Ah. But you have to COOK them. Horrors.
Seriously though, looking in our shared fridge at work on any given day you would see worse than this. Just the combined volume of crap (non) foods people eat. At least eggs have some food value.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18809 on: October 11, 2017, 12:08:06 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.

Ah. But you have to COOK them. Horrors.
Seriously though, looking in our shared fridge at work on any given day you would see worse than this. Just the combined volume of crap (non) foods people eat. At least eggs have some food value.

It did not even occur to me upon reading the initial post that these were pre-cooked. I cannot believe that is a thing.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18810 on: October 11, 2017, 12:21:12 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.
.  The crazy part is that, if nobody buys the stupid priced eggs, you may not have the chance to buy eggs for a few cents each. We recently spoke with an employee of one of our regional mega egg factory farms. He is in charge of marketing things like Buffalo Wing flavored hard boiled eggs for a buck each, in a clear plastic refrigerator package. High profit items like this are literally keeping the lights on and the doors open when it comes to factory Ag. Eggs were a very, very low margin product, and now it's gotten to the point where there in no money to be made. Sadly, a delivery guy might roll a hand truck past you with six cases of $0.34 / dozen eggs and a few packs of prepared eggs. The handful of small packages and the few bucks in net profit they bring are the only think keeping that guy in a job. We have similar issues with small dairy farmers, many who have lost money in six of the last seven years

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18811 on: October 11, 2017, 12:26:33 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.
.  The crazy part is that, if nobody buys the stupid priced eggs, you may not have the chance to buy eggs for a few cents each. We recently spoke with an employee of one of our regional mega egg factory farms. He is in charge of marketing things like Buffalo Wing flavored hard boiled eggs for a buck each, in a clear plastic refrigerator package. High profit items like this are literally keeping the lights on and the doors open when it comes to factory Ag. Eggs were a very, very low margin product, and now it's gotten to the point where there in no money to be made. Sadly, a delivery guy might roll a hand truck past you with six cases of $0.34 / dozen eggs and a few packs of prepared eggs. The handful of small packages and the few bucks in net profit they bring are the only think keeping that guy in a job. We have similar issues with small dairy farmers, many who have lost money in six of the last seven years

The economist in me thinks "These things have a tendency to work themselves out." If some farmers quit doing dairy and eggs because it's not profitable, the lower supply should raise prices and balance out the costs for the factory farms who remain.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18812 on: October 11, 2017, 12:42:23 PM »
A somewhat depressing discussion with a coworker yesterday.  I work at a startup, and we pretty much run out of money every 2 years. This is one of those years.  Each time it happens, it gets more and more iffy as to whether we will weather it.

I'm not sure why I stay, really, since all this means I've gotten 1 raise since 2011 and my pay is currently 76% of the median.  But I do have a great boss, so there's that.

We chatted about the lack of money and the possibility that
A: there might be layoffs, which seem to happen whenever we run out of money and
B: we might just go under this time

He asked if we needed my salary and I said "no, not really.  I mean, we used to, but my husband actually gets raises and bonuses.  It wouldn't be awesome, but we could handle it.  I also know a lot of people it town, so I could get a job.  Probably within 6 months. Might pay even less than this one, might not be a job that is climbing the ladder, but I'd be fine."

He mentioned it was different for him.  Which, of course.  At his age (later 50s) vs mine (later 40s), it's harder to get hired.  And he's the breadwinner.  He's also a great guy and awesome at his job.

Anyway, the whole conversation depressed me.
That is depressing. Why is he in a startup if that is the case? He knows startups are way more risky and volatile. If he doesn't have a backup plan, why even be there?
I'm guessing he was downsized at his last job.  We interview a lot of people in their mid-50s to mid-60s (and a large % of our work force is that age now, too).

Maybe not great for them (age discrimination sucks), but good for us because we need that expertise.

Inaya

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18813 on: October 11, 2017, 12:53:28 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.
I will admit to (and accept facepunches for) buying pre-boiled (and peeled!) eggs. I think they're a dozen for $4? I've done it during crazy weeks when I know having ready-made, effortless food on will be the difference between a healthy, inexpensive snack and ordering pizza. Granted, ever since I discovered you could steam eggs in the Instant Pot, I haven't done it much. And I currently have lots of home-made dinners in the freezer, so it'll probably be a long time before I do it again.

(Plus, I also buy fresh-from-the-chicken fancypants farmers market eggs for $6/doz on occasion, so $4 is a good deal in comparison.)

paddedhat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18814 on: October 11, 2017, 01:00:58 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.
.  The crazy part is that, if nobody buys the stupid priced eggs, you may not have the chance to buy eggs for a few cents each. We recently spoke with an employee of one of our regional mega egg factory farms. He is in charge of marketing things like Buffalo Wing flavored hard boiled eggs for a buck each, in a clear plastic refrigerator package. High profit items like this are literally keeping the lights on and the doors open when it comes to factory Ag. Eggs were a very, very low margin product, and now it's gotten to the point where there in no money to be made. Sadly, a delivery guy might roll a hand truck past you with six cases of $0.34 / dozen eggs and a few packs of prepared eggs. The handful of small packages and the few bucks in net profit they bring are the only think keeping that guy in a job. We have similar issues with small dairy farmers, many who have lost money in six of the last seven years

The economist in me thinks "These things have a tendency to work themselves out." If some farmers quit doing dairy and eggs because it's not profitable, the lower supply should raise prices and balance out the costs for the factory farms who remain.
.   You are obviously correct, but the question is, where does it end, and to who's benefit? We are at the point where local farmers are selling their dairy herds and switching to growing tobacco, while local grocery stores sell milk that contains powdered  milk from China. In the case of things like commodity eggs and chicken there are local outfits that are raising hundreds of thousands of chickens or producing tens of thousands of eggs a week and still barely breaking even. At some point all the theories of Efficient Markets and the magic of competition no longer explain the systemic failure.

solon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18815 on: October 11, 2017, 01:09:40 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.
.  The crazy part is that, if nobody buys the stupid priced eggs, you may not have the chance to buy eggs for a few cents each. We recently spoke with an employee of one of our regional mega egg factory farms. He is in charge of marketing things like Buffalo Wing flavored hard boiled eggs for a buck each, in a clear plastic refrigerator package. High profit items like this are literally keeping the lights on and the doors open when it comes to factory Ag. Eggs were a very, very low margin product, and now it's gotten to the point where there in no money to be made. Sadly, a delivery guy might roll a hand truck past you with six cases of $0.34 / dozen eggs and a few packs of prepared eggs. The handful of small packages and the few bucks in net profit they bring are the only think keeping that guy in a job. We have similar issues with small dairy farmers, many who have lost money in six of the last seven years

The economist in me thinks "These things have a tendency to work themselves out." If some farmers quit doing dairy and eggs because it's not profitable, the lower supply should raise prices and balance out the costs for the factory farms who remain.
.   You are obviously correct, but the question is, where does it end, and to who's benefit? We are at the point where local farmers are selling their dairy herds and switching to growing tobacco, while local grocery stores sell milk that contains powdered  milk from China. In the case of things like commodity eggs and chicken there are local outfits that are raising hundreds of thousands of chickens or producing tens of thousands of eggs a week and still barely breaking even. At some point all the theories of Efficient Markets and the magic of competition no longer explain the systemic failure.

Wouldn't systemic failure itself be self-correcting?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18816 on: October 11, 2017, 01:21:57 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.
.  The crazy part is that, if nobody buys the stupid priced eggs, you may not have the chance to buy eggs for a few cents each. We recently spoke with an employee of one of our regional mega egg factory farms. He is in charge of marketing things like Buffalo Wing flavored hard boiled eggs for a buck each, in a clear plastic refrigerator package. High profit items like this are literally keeping the lights on and the doors open when it comes to factory Ag. Eggs were a very, very low margin product, and now it's gotten to the point where there in no money to be made. Sadly, a delivery guy might roll a hand truck past you with six cases of $0.34 / dozen eggs and a few packs of prepared eggs. The handful of small packages and the few bucks in net profit they bring are the only think keeping that guy in a job. We have similar issues with small dairy farmers, many who have lost money in six of the last seven years

The economist in me thinks "These things have a tendency to work themselves out." If some farmers quit doing dairy and eggs because it's not profitable, the lower supply should raise prices and balance out the costs for the factory farms who remain.

Farmers, as a group, are the most stubborn individuals around. Before they go out of business they will fight right down to the wire and cut expenses wherever possible. Unfortunately in the interests of profit animal welfare is the first thing to suffer. Chickens in factory farms or even most of the "free range" or "cage free" farms are no longer kept in anything resembling humane conditions.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18817 on: October 11, 2017, 01:24:38 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.
.  The crazy part is that, if nobody buys the stupid priced eggs, you may not have the chance to buy eggs for a few cents each. We recently spoke with an employee of one of our regional mega egg factory farms. He is in charge of marketing things like Buffalo Wing flavored hard boiled eggs for a buck each, in a clear plastic refrigerator package. High profit items like this are literally keeping the lights on and the doors open when it comes to factory Ag. Eggs were a very, very low margin product, and now it's gotten to the point where there in no money to be made. Sadly, a delivery guy might roll a hand truck past you with six cases of $0.34 / dozen eggs and a few packs of prepared eggs. The handful of small packages and the few bucks in net profit they bring are the only think keeping that guy in a job. We have similar issues with small dairy farmers, many who have lost money in six of the last seven years

Interesting that the boiled eggs help the farmer.  My thought was a middle man or the store was boiling the cheap eggs.  They aren't in any sort of commercial packaging.

In general mustachian habits hurt small businesses. I know all the restaurants in town would likely appreciate if I went there more often. As would the movie theater. And the farmer's market probably wished I didn't grow my vegetables.  Big businesses too- wouldn't it help the cable company if I subscribed? etc



A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18818 on: October 11, 2017, 01:32:26 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.
.  The crazy part is that, if nobody buys the stupid priced eggs, you may not have the chance to buy eggs for a few cents each. We recently spoke with an employee of one of our regional mega egg factory farms. He is in charge of marketing things like Buffalo Wing flavored hard boiled eggs for a buck each, in a clear plastic refrigerator package. High profit items like this are literally keeping the lights on and the doors open when it comes to factory Ag. Eggs were a very, very low margin product, and now it's gotten to the point where there in no money to be made. Sadly, a delivery guy might roll a hand truck past you with six cases of $0.34 / dozen eggs and a few packs of prepared eggs. The handful of small packages and the few bucks in net profit they bring are the only think keeping that guy in a job. We have similar issues with small dairy farmers, many who have lost money in six of the last seven years

The economist in me thinks "These things have a tendency to work themselves out." If some farmers quit doing dairy and eggs because it's not profitable, the lower supply should raise prices and balance out the costs for the factory farms who remain.
.   You are obviously correct, but the question is, where does it end, and to who's benefit? We are at the point where local farmers are selling their dairy herds and switching to growing tobacco, while local grocery stores sell milk that contains powdered  milk from China. In the case of things like commodity eggs and chicken there are local outfits that are raising hundreds of thousands of chickens or producing tens of thousands of eggs a week and still barely breaking even. At some point all the theories of Efficient Markets and the magic of competition no longer explain the systemic failure.

Well, selling powdered milk from China isn't anymore a market failure than me buying food from a grocery store instead of farming it in my backyard. If people don't want to pay the premium, the good can't be produced.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18819 on: October 11, 2017, 02:34:11 PM »
All y'all should try some socialism to deal with that market failure. (Joke! Don't hurt me!)

paddedhat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18820 on: October 11, 2017, 03:30:24 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.
.  The crazy part is that, if nobody buys the stupid priced eggs, you may not have the chance to buy eggs for a few cents each. We recently spoke with an employee of one of our regional mega egg factory farms. He is in charge of marketing things like Buffalo Wing flavored hard boiled eggs for a buck each, in a clear plastic refrigerator package. High profit items like this are literally keeping the lights on and the doors open when it comes to factory Ag. Eggs were a very, very low margin product, and now it's gotten to the point where there in no money to be made. Sadly, a delivery guy might roll a hand truck past you with six cases of $0.34 / dozen eggs and a few packs of prepared eggs. The handful of small packages and the few bucks in net profit they bring are the only think keeping that guy in a job. We have similar issues with small dairy farmers, many who have lost money in six of the last seven years

The economist in me thinks "These things have a tendency to work themselves out." If some farmers quit doing dairy and eggs because it's not profitable, the lower supply should raise prices and balance out the costs for the factory farms who remain.

Farmers, as a group, are the most stubborn individuals around. Before they go out of business they will fight right down to the wire and cut expenses wherever possible. Unfortunately in the interests of profit animal welfare is the first thing to suffer. Chickens in factory farms or even most of the "free range" or "cage free" farms are no longer kept in anything resembling humane conditions.


Unfortunately, most of the injustices you speak of have been part of the big AG. operating procedure in NA for a long time, and are now standard procedure.  Local farmers here, that used to run 100 head of dairy cattle now have several 8-900 ft. long chicken barns and they don't own a single bird. The chicks are delivered to them as property of a huge, national chicken brand, the owner supplies the feed and the farmer does the raising. No competition, just take it or leave it, and very little profit in the deal for the farmer. Eggs are produced by the tens of thousands a week in similar conditions, with net profits of a few cents a dozen, if that. Once again, the farmer is the middle man, and has no control over anything, except stay in, or leaving, the farming life. It's easy to call somebody stubborn and ignorant, but it's tough to be a farmer, from a family that worked the same ground for a century or more, and have to decide if you can afford to have another year of losses that you have zero control over. Not to mention helping your children get out, so they don't have to suffer like you are. I understand the fact that small dairy farmers and others small operators will eventually fade away, but when you have essentially become a farmer owned, large scale manufacturer of food products, have millions invested in facilities, and are making little more that the assistant manager of the local McDonalds, in a good year, there is a problem that transcends the free market.

The one thing that few think of when they do nothing but worship the laissez-faire market, and survival of the fittest is, is anybody really looking at the big picture here? When we let China become the only producer of military grade specialty steels, and buy everything from powdered milk, to solar panels, and every chip and circuit board we use, from them. When we ignore, or even due to ignorant political interference, actually impede the growth of, everything from domestic solar and high tech. battery production to stem cell research, do we really think that there isn't going to be a huge price to pay in the future. As we flounder about with failing infrastructure and a failed legislative and executive branch of our federal government, China is merrily succeeding with the "belt and Roads" initiative. One day they will be a true super power, and have a firm grip on a dozens, and dozens of countries, controlling everything from millions of acres of "foreign" crop land to other countries distribution and transportation systems. Their goal is simple, extract what they need from those who have it, while becoming the supplier of choice to the countries that you are extracting resources from. Build everything from rail systems to ports, and roads in the nations you are "helping" and keep your new friends up to their eyeballs in debt, with a healthy trade imbalance.  Unlike our model of continual war, and endless aggression, they will have bought their standing in most places they conquered without the need for even a threat. They are literally outsmarting us, on many fronts, and it's due to nothing more than ignorance and complacency here. Can you imagine a dispute in a decade or two, when china decides to impose trade sanctions that prohibit the exportation of smart phones, computers, EV batteries, and a whole list of things that we foolishly have become sickly dependent on?  Interesting times ahead?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18821 on: October 11, 2017, 04:23:22 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.
.  The crazy part is that, if nobody buys the stupid priced eggs, you may not have the chance to buy eggs for a few cents each. We recently spoke with an employee of one of our regional mega egg factory farms. He is in charge of marketing things like Buffalo Wing flavored hard boiled eggs for a buck each, in a clear plastic refrigerator package. High profit items like this are literally keeping the lights on and the doors open when it comes to factory Ag. Eggs were a very, very low margin product, and now it's gotten to the point where there in no money to be made. Sadly, a delivery guy might roll a hand truck past you with six cases of $0.34 / dozen eggs and a few packs of prepared eggs. The handful of small packages and the few bucks in net profit they bring are the only think keeping that guy in a job. We have similar issues with small dairy farmers, many who have lost money in six of the last seven years

The economist in me thinks "These things have a tendency to work themselves out." If some farmers quit doing dairy and eggs because it's not profitable, the lower supply should raise prices and balance out the costs for the factory farms who remain.

Farmers, as a group, are the most stubborn individuals around. Before they go out of business they will fight right down to the wire and cut expenses wherever possible. Unfortunately in the interests of profit animal welfare is the first thing to suffer. Chickens in factory farms or even most of the "free range" or "cage free" farms are no longer kept in anything resembling humane conditions.


Unfortunately, most of the injustices you speak of have been part of the big AG. operating procedure in NA for a long time, and are now standard procedure.  Local farmers here, that used to run 100 head of dairy cattle now have several 8-900 ft. long chicken barns and they don't own a single bird. The chicks are delivered to them as property of a huge, national chicken brand, the owner supplies the feed and the farmer does the raising. No competition, just take it or leave it, and very little profit in the deal for the farmer. Eggs are produced by the tens of thousands a week in similar conditions, with net profits of a few cents a dozen, if that. Once again, the farmer is the middle man, and has no control over anything, except stay in, or leaving, the farming life. It's easy to call somebody stubborn and ignorant, but it's tough to be a farmer, from a family that worked the same ground for a century or more, and have to decide if you can afford to have another year of losses that you have zero control over. Not to mention helping your children get out, so they don't have to suffer like you are. I understand the fact that small dairy farmers and others small operators will eventually fade away, but when you have essentially become a farmer owned, large scale manufacturer of food products, have millions invested in facilities, and are making little more that the assistant manager of the local McDonalds, in a good year, there is a problem that transcends the free market.

The one thing that few think of when they do nothing but worship the laissez-faire market, and survival of the fittest is, is anybody really looking at the big picture here? When we let China become the only producer of military grade specialty steels, and buy everything from powdered milk, to solar panels, and every chip and circuit board we use, from them. When we ignore, or even due to ignorant political interference, actually impede the growth of, everything from domestic solar and high tech. battery production to stem cell research, do we really think that there isn't going to be a huge price to pay in the future. As we flounder about with failing infrastructure and a failed legislative and executive branch of our federal government, China is merrily succeeding with the "belt and Roads" initiative. One day they will be a true super power, and have a firm grip on a dozens, and dozens of countries, controlling everything from millions of acres of "foreign" crop land to other countries distribution and transportation systems. Their goal is simple, extract what they need from those who have it, while becoming the supplier of choice to the countries that you are extracting resources from. Build everything from rail systems to ports, and roads in the nations you are "helping" and keep your new friends up to their eyeballs in debt, with a healthy trade imbalance.  Unlike our model of continual war, and endless aggression, they will have bought their standing in most places they conquered without the need for even a threat. They are literally outsmarting us, on many fronts, and it's due to nothing more than ignorance and complacency here. Can you imagine a dispute in a decade or two, when china decides to impose trade sanctions that prohibit the exportation of smart phones, computers, EV batteries, and a whole list of things that we foolishly have become sickly dependent on?  Interesting times ahead?

My mother's family have been farm owners for the last century and a half. That's how I know how stubborn they are. They do very well financially most years, however they focus mostly on niche markets with a high margin, and they're committed to mixed farming. When something is no longer profitable, they drop it.

The changes in the egg industry actually caused my grandmother to quit the egg business because she couldn't be decent to the birds and also turn a profit. Industry-wise it's been a gigantic race to the bottom.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18822 on: October 11, 2017, 06:17:24 PM »
Quote
The one thing that few think of when they do nothing but worship the laissez-faire market, and survival of the fittest is, is anybody really looking at the big picture here? When we let China become the only producer of military grade specialty steels, and buy everything from powdered milk, to solar panels, and every chip and circuit board we use, from them. When we ignore, or even due to ignorant political interference, actually impede the growth of, everything from domestic solar and high tech. battery production to stem cell research, do we really think that there isn't going to be a huge price to pay in the future. As we flounder about with failing infrastructure and a failed legislative and executive branch of our federal government, China is merrily succeeding with the "belt and Roads" initiative. One day they will be a true super power, and have a firm grip on a dozens, and dozens of countries, controlling everything from millions of acres of "foreign" crop land to other countries distribution and transportation systems. Their goal is simple, extract what they need from those who have it, while becoming the supplier of choice to the countries that you are extracting resources from. Build everything from rail systems to ports, and roads in the nations you are "helping" and keep your new friends up to their eyeballs in debt, with a healthy trade imbalance.  Unlike our model of continual war, and endless aggression, they will have bought their standing in most places they conquered without the need for even a threat. They are literally outsmarting us, on many fronts, and it's due to nothing more than ignorance and complacency here. Can you imagine a dispute in a decade or two, when china decides to impose trade sanctions that prohibit the exportation of smart phones, computers, EV batteries, and a whole list of things that we foolishly have become sickly dependent on?  Interesting times ahead?

We were just discussing this at work today.  We are in semiconductors.  China is very secretly buying up companies.  They aren't allowed to outright buy up companies, but they buy them up piecemeal - just enough to stay under the radar.

paddedhat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18823 on: October 11, 2017, 07:36:18 PM »
Quote
We were just discussing this at work today.  We are in semiconductors.  China is very secretly buying up companies.  They aren't allowed to outright buy up companies, but they buy them up piecemeal - just enough to stay under the radar.
And at the other extreme, Scott Walker is on his knees, blowing Foxconn, while making an unbelievably crappy deal and giving away three BILLION in WI. taxpayer money to a Chinese company with a long history of NEVER following through on promises they make to invest in foreign plants. The stupid in that deal is almost to much to process.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18824 on: October 11, 2017, 07:40:43 PM »
Wal-Mart sounds like hell on Earth for grocery shopping. :(

When my sister was living in Rural Tennessee she an my BIL planned weedend trips to cities about 2 hours away so they wouldn't have to shop at the local Walmart which sounds similar to the one described above.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18825 on: October 11, 2017, 11:21:14 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.

Ah. But you have to COOK them. Horrors.
Seriously though, looking in our shared fridge at work on any given day you would see worse than this. Just the combined volume of crap (non) foods people eat. At least eggs have some food value.

I have to admit to grabbing one of these things the other day:



It was a free promo, but I still felt dirty at the amount of packaging consumed for so little food

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18826 on: October 12, 2017, 12:05:50 AM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.

On the other hand, a dozen eggs for $0,34 is also ridiculous. I don't understand how it is even possible to produce eggs for that little. In Europe I pay about Ä0,25 per egg in a grocery store. Farmers sell their eggs for nearly Ä0,10 / egg these days, so sadly most of the money still ends up with the retailer.

I was raised in a family of farmers. No one is farming now anymore because they have all gone under. The thing that sets farming apart  from most other businesses, is that farming is a lifestyle. You were raised on a farm, your parents and grandparents were raised on a farm, farming is your culture and lifestyle as well as a way to make a living. Seeing a small business going down is hard for any small business owner, but for a farmer it's even harder because he was raised on that farm, he lives on that farm, he's worked with animals since the day he was born. It's a massive decision to quit and many will go under rather than quit at the sensible time. It is certainly not unheard of for farmers to end their lives when they go under.

They also have this habit of selling below cost price to minimalize their losses. I think the best way for farmers to increase pricing would be if they all stopped supplying below cost price, but as a producer of food it is very hard to pour good milk down the drain instead of supplying it to the factory. They would rather sell below cost price than waste it. Also, animals are not machines, you can't just turn them off. They are going to produce milk and eggs and you're going to have to buy feed, so you might as well sell the eggs below cost price to at least cut your losses than not sell them at all.

As a group, they are generally stubborn and it makes them vulnerable to big ag as well. Farmers are independent people with many skills, but few marketable skills, when they lose the farm very often they end up awful, low paying jobs. Transporting pigs to the slaughter, working at a slaughterhouse or working as a help for another farmer. The best option is often for a big ag investor to buy your farm and hire you as a contractor. That way your family can stay where they have always been, you can pretend you're still a farmer but be relieved of the debt burden. Very soon they find out that these big ag investors are absolutely investors and not farmers. All they care about is cutting costs instead of animal welfare and good practices, and if you don't work with them they can easily throw you off of your farm.

As for me, I would love to live on a homestead-type farm, and it's what I plan to do in RE. It's what my grandparents' farm was like. I would want to produce for myself and my family and maybe sell a bit of produce to people I know, but commercial farming? Never in a million years. I try to buy directly from farmers where I can to make sure I support them, not big ag. I generally pay less than in a grocery store and all my money goes to the farmer and not to all the middle men.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 12:18:59 AM by Imma »

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18827 on: October 12, 2017, 12:14:14 AM »
Thereís some kind of egg glut in the us now.  Lowest Iíve seen is $1/doz, but the 34cent price is likely below cost.  The farmer has a choice to sell at a loss or get nothing, they will choose the (smaller) loss

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18828 on: October 12, 2017, 02:35:00 AM »
Quote
Unlike our model of continual war, and endless aggression, they will have bought their standing in most places they conquered without the need for even a threat. They are literally outsmarting us, on many fronts, and it's due to nothing more than ignorance and complacency here.

You mean in the US you still have not read what the Chinese government openly said more then a decade ago??
China has a tradition of long time planning and outmanouvering the barbarians, and they still know how to do it. They know energy and food and water are the 3 things that decide the 21st century, and they are buying that whereever they can with the money they make from the exports.
And if China wants they can kick the US into an economic crash in a matter of weeks. They only don't do it because it's still a lot more profitabe to not do it. 


btw if you don't know it already, China has the the biggest amount (and biggest yearly new installations) of renewable energies.

martyconlonontherun

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18829 on: October 12, 2017, 05:26:12 AM »
Quote
Unlike our model of continual war, and endless aggression, they will have bought their standing in most places they conquered without the need for even a threat. They are literally outsmarting us, on many fronts, and it's due to nothing more than ignorance and complacency here.

You mean in the US you still have not read what the Chinese government openly said more then a decade ago??
China has a tradition of long time planning and outmanouvering the barbarians, and they still know how to do it. They know energy and food and water are the 3 things that decide the 21st century, and they are buying that whereever they can with the money they make from the exports.
And if China wants they can kick the US into an economic crash in a matter of weeks. They only don't do it because it's still a lot more profitabe to not do it. 


btw if you don't know it already, China has the the biggest amount (and biggest yearly new installations) of renewable energies.
Couldn't we do the same thing to them? Kind of mutual destruction?

The Foxconn deal really gets me. It gives someone a job now, but hurts their kids. Those jobs wont be there in 20 years unless heavily subsidized as they are becoming now. We need to be a leader in innovation and new products. Who cares who manufacturers them if the profits are creating well paying jobs in the US.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18830 on: October 12, 2017, 05:45:49 AM »
... bitching about Wal-Groceries...

Highly recommend Aldi. It sounds like if there's one that's within a 30min drive it may be quicker for you to do that. I'm usually in/out with a week or two of groceries in 15min.

I'd like to try Aldi's but according to their on-line tool the closest one to me is 473.27 miles away by air. That's a little more than the distance from London to Geneva, and a little less than the distance between Milan and Sarajevo.

The self-checkout lines work for mainstream items that don't require adult assistance, if and only if the receipt paper is filled regularly, the card-reader device is functional, and they're amply stocked with cash (for making change from cash transactions). None of those three assumptions is necessarily valid. New Mexico is like living in Ayn Rand's wet dream, but with more gun violence.

I don't get Aldi's. The prepared food tends to be cheaper, but the ingredients tend to be more expensive. I can get pasta and milk consistently cheaper, often eggs as well.

I'm a little late on the Aldi boat, but I've just gotta add this:


paddedhat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18831 on: October 12, 2017, 06:15:52 AM »
Quote
Unlike our model of continual war, and endless aggression, they will have bought their standing in most places they conquered without the need for even a threat. They are literally outsmarting us, on many fronts, and it's due to nothing more than ignorance and complacency here.

You mean in the US you still have not read what the Chinese government openly said more then a decade ago??
China has a tradition of long time planning and outmanouvering the barbarians, and they still know how to do it. They know energy and food and water are the 3 things that decide the 21st century, and they are buying that whereever they can with the money they make from the exports.
And if China wants they can kick the US into an economic crash in a matter of weeks. They only don't do it because it's still a lot more profitabe to not do it. 


btw if you don't know it already, China has the the biggest amount (and biggest yearly new installations) of renewable energies.

I think it's fair to say that the US based members here on MMM don't reflect the status quo, and  the majority are a exponentially more aware politically, and on foreign policy issues, than the general public. So, yes, I think like most here, I'm pretty aware of the brilliance of China's efforts. That said, when it comes to your first question, as the famous satirist, H.L. Menchen famously said, "ďNo one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.Ē So, no the vast majority of Americans haven't go a clue as to China's maneuvering to control the narrative of the 21st century.

Don't forget, our leader is a con-man and master manipulator, who is willing to destroy the environment, and any real progress in catching up with the first world in our energy policy, in order to play to his base. (literally play, the transcript of his very first combative call to the president of Mexico made it quite clear the he knows his base is composed of idiots, he is playing them, and wanted Enrique to play along, on the wall issue)  He has deluded his followers into believing that he can revive the coal industry, the other long dead heavy industries we once had,  and give then everything they miss about the 1950s.  As they lust for a time when white males ruled the land, women and minorities were properly subservient, gay was a verb describing a great birthday party, and the "man of the house" did manly things like make steel beams or dig coal. One of the saddest human interest pieces I have seen recently was a pre-election interview with a failing Pittsburgh PA. diner owner. The scene was shot as he sat in one of his booths with the hulking remains of a giant steel mill behind him. The mill was closed three decades ago, and thousands of employees were out of jobs. He was a Trump supporter and sincerely believed that, in the fashion of a biblical miracle, the Donald would make this obsolete unneeded steel mill rise from the wreckage, and once again be a bountiful source of high paying jobs for thousands. Meanwhile China buys ports in Greece, hundreds of thousands of acres of crop land in South America, and builds new railroads in African countries that last had rail investment when the Brits. ruled the world, in the 1800s.

Finally, you are correct, our government at both the federal and in some cases the state level, actively works to damage and delay renewables, to satisfy the greed of their masters, mostly big oil and the utility industry.  Florida is probably the most bizarre example of a failed, corrupt state in this. It has massive potential for any solar electric and water heating applications, yet it has one of the lowest levels of utilization in the country, since their corrupt state government is owned by the electrical utility industry.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 06:20:36 AM by paddedhat »

BiochemicalDJ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18832 on: October 12, 2017, 07:33:47 AM »
Stimulating discussion, but now back to form:

A week ago I was talking about how I just bought a 'New' to me car for $1250- the first car that I've actually paid money for as an adult.

Our latest hire, a university graduate of ~4 months ago, proceeds to tell me that he just did the same thing- except with a 2017 Honda Civic with a sporty package that includes 19" alloy rims. In Canada, no less, where our winter guarantees that one pothole later those things are toasted and nuke tires- expensive ones at that.

And he's mentioning that he's desperate to put a new intake manifold on, voiding his 2017 warranty, because 'performance.'

Admittedly, he's not *intentionally* antimustachian, but I'm still not super 'out' at work about it, so I can't talk to him to find out- my employer is one of the last bastions of having the 'cadillac of pensions' and everyone seems to live like it.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18833 on: October 12, 2017, 07:42:57 AM »
Slight tangent. One off-topic post and I promise no more from me. Putting in quotes so it can be more easily skipped:

Quote
Contrarian opinion: the 21st century will end with the US being relatively even more powerful than China than it was at the start of the 21st century.

China has 1.3 billion people today. It is expected to SHRINK to 1 billion by 2100.
The US has 300 million people. It is expected to GROW to 450 million by 2100.

People overestimate the Asian Tigers in general. These economies are rife with corruption and cronyism that make them unproductive, and much of their economic growth is based on input growth that cannot be replicated again (Krugman made this point WRT to Singapore back in the 90s: sure, you can give everyone a basic high school education, but you cannot give everyone a PhD).
On a per hour basis (last time I checked these numbers, which was several years ago), Japan is no more productive than Slovenia, and South Korea is no more productive than Russia. China will probably top out even lower than these nations, because they have a shit rule of law system and no democratic process to ferret out corruption. For the record, Slovenia is about 75% of US per hour productivity, and Russia is about 40% of US per hour productivity, so China topping out at like 30% of US per hour productivity is realistic.

I doubt they'll ever supplant the US in high-end research, especially of the military kind. Japan does some interesting stuff, but it's nothing like the US or Europe.

If I am worrying about something geopolitically, it's Russia and Eastern Europe, as the Eastern European states are becoming depopulated and the European Union is a joke. If I were Polish, I would NEVER bet my national security on Germans, French, or British soldiers and be very worried about the US leaving at some point in the 21st century.


On-Topic:
One of my co-workers wants me to get a sweater from LL Bean, retail $100. But it's okay, I can just return it in a few months, after winter, when it's no longer in season.

Like...do people regularly do this? He seems to do it all the time. He just returned a belt he got a few years ago because he decided he didn't like the style anymore. He regularly buys shirts and tie clips and ties and the like for formal wedding or events and returns them after the weekend. I...don't get this?

BiochemicalDJ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18834 on: October 12, 2017, 08:10:59 AM »

On-Topic:
One of my co-workers wants me to get a sweater from LL Bean, retail $100. But it's okay, I can just return it in a few months, after winter, when it's no longer in season.

Like...do people regularly do this? He seems to do it all the time. He just returned a belt he got a few years ago because he decided he didn't like the style anymore. He regularly buys shirts and tie clips and ties and the like for formal wedding or events and returns them after the weekend. I...don't get this?

The hilarious part about this is that I am willing to stake money that someone in this forum somewhere does this regularly and would count it as a mustachian, money-saving life pro-tip xD

JLee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18835 on: October 12, 2017, 10:07:53 AM »
Slight tangent. One off-topic post and I promise no more from me. Putting in quotes so it can be more easily skipped:

Quote
Contrarian opinion: the 21st century will end with the US being relatively even more powerful than China than it was at the start of the 21st century.

China has 1.3 billion people today. It is expected to SHRINK to 1 billion by 2100.
The US has 300 million people. It is expected to GROW to 450 million by 2100.

People overestimate the Asian Tigers in general. These economies are rife with corruption and cronyism that make them unproductive, and much of their economic growth is based on input growth that cannot be replicated again (Krugman made this point WRT to Singapore back in the 90s: sure, you can give everyone a basic high school education, but you cannot give everyone a PhD).
On a per hour basis (last time I checked these numbers, which was several years ago), Japan is no more productive than Slovenia, and South Korea is no more productive than Russia. China will probably top out even lower than these nations, because they have a shit rule of law system and no democratic process to ferret out corruption. For the record, Slovenia is about 75% of US per hour productivity, and Russia is about 40% of US per hour productivity, so China topping out at like 30% of US per hour productivity is realistic.

I doubt they'll ever supplant the US in high-end research, especially of the military kind. Japan does some interesting stuff, but it's nothing like the US or Europe.

If I am worrying about something geopolitically, it's Russia and Eastern Europe, as the Eastern European states are becoming depopulated and the European Union is a joke. If I were Polish, I would NEVER bet my national security on Germans, French, or British soldiers and be very worried about the US leaving at some point in the 21st century.


On-Topic:
One of my co-workers wants me to get a sweater from LL Bean, retail $100. But it's okay, I can just return it in a few months, after winter, when it's no longer in season.

Like...do people regularly do this? He seems to do it all the time. He just returned a belt he got a few years ago because he decided he didn't like the style anymore. He regularly buys shirts and tie clips and ties and the like for formal wedding or events and returns them after the weekend. I...don't get this?

People like that are why Costco had to make their return policies more strict. People were buying computers, using them for years, then returning them for the price they paid and getting new ones.

economista

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18836 on: October 12, 2017, 10:14:45 AM »

On-Topic:
One of my co-workers wants me to get a sweater from LL Bean, retail $100. But it's okay, I can just return it in a few months, after winter, when it's no longer in season.

Like...do people regularly do this? He seems to do it all the time. He just returned a belt he got a few years ago because he decided he didn't like the style anymore. He regularly buys shirts and tie clips and ties and the like for formal wedding or events and returns them after the weekend. I...don't get this?

The hilarious part about this is that I am willing to stake money that someone in this forum somewhere does this regularly and would count it as a mustachian, money-saving life pro-tip xD

Apparently a lot of people do this.  This American Life actually did an episode about it.  It's Act 2 of this one: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/591/get-your-moneys-worth

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18837 on: October 12, 2017, 10:21:55 AM »
Slight tangent. One off-topic post and I promise no more from me. Putting in quotes so it can be more easily skipped:

Quote
Contrarian opinion: the 21st century will end with the US being relatively even more powerful than China than it was at the start of the 21st century.

China has 1.3 billion people today. It is expected to SHRINK to 1 billion by 2100.
The US has 300 million people. It is expected to GROW to 450 million by 2100.

People overestimate the Asian Tigers in general. These economies are rife with corruption and cronyism that make them unproductive, and much of their economic growth is based on input growth that cannot be replicated again (Krugman made this point WRT to Singapore back in the 90s: sure, you can give everyone a basic high school education, but you cannot give everyone a PhD).
On a per hour basis (last time I checked these numbers, which was several years ago), Japan is no more productive than Slovenia, and South Korea is no more productive than Russia. China will probably top out even lower than these nations, because they have a shit rule of law system and no democratic process to ferret out corruption. For the record, Slovenia is about 75% of US per hour productivity, and Russia is about 40% of US per hour productivity, so China topping out at like 30% of US per hour productivity is realistic.

I doubt they'll ever supplant the US in high-end research, especially of the military kind. Japan does some interesting stuff, but it's nothing like the US or Europe.

If I am worrying about something geopolitically, it's Russia and Eastern Europe, as the Eastern European states are becoming depopulated and the European Union is a joke. If I were Polish, I would NEVER bet my national security on Germans, French, or British soldiers and be very worried about the US leaving at some point in the 21st century.


On-Topic:
One of my co-workers wants me to get a sweater from LL Bean, retail $100. But it's okay, I can just return it in a few months, after winter, when it's no longer in season.

Like...do people regularly do this? He seems to do it all the time. He just returned a belt he got a few years ago because he decided he didn't like the style anymore. He regularly buys shirts and tie clips and ties and the like for formal wedding or events and returns them after the weekend. I...don't get this?

I know my sister does this all the time. She's the opposite of a mustachian, but she wants to wear something new to every party she goes to and she has a lot of parties. She orders outfits online, wears them, hangs the clothes in the fresh air then sends them back. So far, she's always been succesful, although I'm sure it must have been noticeable...  you don't get the smell of smoke or alcohol out of clothes that easily.

On the topic of the EU: I wouldn't bet on them if I were in Eastern Europe. Russia is clearly after their territory. While we are more and more dependent on cheap labour from Eastern Europe (not just unskilled jobs, several countries in the East are also doing well in the IT field) because of our own ageing populations, the EU will never defend Eastern Europe from a physical, military invasion by Russia.

I absolutely cannot understand why so many of my fellow Europeans are opposed to European unity. Politically, the EU is not where we should be. We need a stronger parliament and less public servants. We need people to feel truly represented by the EU. The Euro was a good idea in theory, and I'm convinced we would have been economically far worse off if we didn't have the Euro, but of course many mistakes were made in the implementation.

Still, what we need most of all is a political union in Europe, similar to the US. We shouldn't have to be afraid to lose our national identity: American states have clear identities, as well as having a national identity, and they are all in one federation. We can (and should) give the federal states a lot of political freedom at the state level, but we need one federal government for economic, military and foreign policy issues. One head of state. One office to carry the ultimate responsibility.

In our daily lives, we are already very united. Most students go to another EU-country for a semester, we all speak each others' languages, we do a lot of business across borders. We have free movement of people which has made it very normal for people to visit and live in other countries than their own. I just don't get why we are all so extremely scared of the political EU.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18838 on: October 12, 2017, 11:04:27 AM »
The EU is nowhere near as cohesive as the US, and I donít expect that to change in my lifetime.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18839 on: October 12, 2017, 11:48:43 AM »
The EU is nowhere near as cohesive as the US, and I donít expect that to change in my lifetime.
Agreed. Here in the US, we have plenty of cultural diversity, and a lot of tension just between urban and rural politics.  I can't imagine how hard it would be in Europe, where you have language barriers and even larger cultural differences.  Just compare Greece vs. Germany.

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18840 on: October 12, 2017, 11:51:10 AM »
Still, what we need most of all is a political union in Europe, similar to the US. We shouldn't have to be afraid to lose our national identity: American states have clear identities, as well as having a national identity, and they are all in one federation. We can (and should) give the federal states a lot of political freedom at the state level, but we need one federal government for economic, military and foreign policy issues. One head of state. One office to carry the ultimate responsibility.

I don't think this is as apt a comparison you might imagine. Americans as a group have grown together as a nation first with states second. I'm originally from Illinois and now live in California with family in Texas. My parents are from Indiana and Wisconsin. We shed our state identities easily and don't adopt our parents. I think this is what scares Europeans looking to the US as an example of unifying Europe. After all, I don't consider myself a "Hoosier" (person from Indiana) even though my Dad is from there and I lived there for a few years. Imagine a Frenchman with a daughter who doesn't consider herself French. That is a much bigger deal in Europe where national identities have such a long history.

The exceptions are the places with the most contention:
Texas - Was the Republic of Texas for a short time
Hawaii - Was a monarchy prior to statehood
Puerto Rico - Currently a territory with debate about whether statehood matches the cultural identity

These three places might be the best example of what Europe would look like if they were to unify as you suggest. They are not all examples of sunshine and roses.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18841 on: October 12, 2017, 11:53:40 AM »
Quote
On-Topic:
One of my co-workers wants me to get a sweater from LL Bean, retail $100. But it's okay, I can just return it in a few months, after winter, when it's no longer in season.

Like...do people regularly do this? He seems to do it all the time. He just returned a belt he got a few years ago because he decided he didn't like the style anymore. He regularly buys shirts and tie clips and ties and the like for formal wedding or events and returns them after the weekend. I...don't get this?
Quote
The hilarious part about this is that I am willing to stake money that someone in this forum somewhere does this regularly and would count it as a mustachian, money-saving life pro-tip xD

My achilles heel is related to buying stuff at Canadian Tire.   And returning it 3+ months later.   I just found out that my local store refuses to return anything without a receipt now (even for last sale price on a gift card), and anything over 90 days old.  I missed the deadline by 3 days.  I have been lazy and just put the items on the shelf, and return in a batch about 3x per year..  Their policy changed and I lost out on $50 on what USED TO BE A GREAT MMM TIP!

So what I am I constantly returning? My last trip to the return counter...
a)  The replacement coil for the stove top for my aunt's summer place - it did not do the trick and when I got it back from her after 6 weeks, I went on vacation and did not get it back to the store promptly.
b) oil filter -- l had looked up the one for my car model instore, but mixed it up and got the one for a different engine.
c) oil filter wrench -- so I ended up taking my car to the get repaired and no longer want the wrench, either.
d) Lamp socket replacement -- wrong size, lamp still sitting the garage.

etc.   Home depot's return policy is much better, but they don't have the same amount of car parts and household goods.

I sure hope you did not mean that you friend used the items then returned them??!

ETA:  Damn quotes. Fixed.?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 12:39:03 PM by Goldielocks »

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18842 on: October 12, 2017, 11:58:00 AM »

On-Topic:
One of my co-workers wants me to get a sweater from LL Bean, retail $100. But it's okay, I can just return it in a few months, after winter, when it's no longer in season.

Like...do people regularly do this? He seems to do it all the time. He just returned a belt he got a few years ago because he decided he didn't like the style anymore. He regularly buys shirts and tie clips and ties and the like for formal wedding or events and returns them after the weekend. I...don't get this?
Quote
The hilarious part about this is that I am willing to stake money that someone in this forum somewhere does this regularly and would count it as a mustachian, money-saving life pro-tip xD

My achilles heel is related to buying stuff at Canadian Tire.   And returning it 3+ months later.   I just found out that my local store refuses to return anything without a receipt now (even for last sale price on a gift card), and anything over 90 days old.  I missed the deadline by 3 days.  I have been lazy and just put the items on the shelf, and return in a batch about 3x per year..  Their policy changed and I lost out on $50 on what USED TO BE A GREAT MMM TIP!

So what I am I constantly returning? My last trip to the return counter...
a)  The replacement coil for the stove top for my aunt's summer place - it did not do the trick and when I got it back from her after 6 weeks, I went on vacation and did not get it back to the store promptly.
b) oil filter -- l had looked up the one for my car model instore, but mixed it up and got the one for a different engine.
c) oil filter wrench -- so I ended up taking my car to the get repaired and no longer want the wrench, either.
d) Lamp socket replacement -- wrong size, lamp still sitting the garage.

etc.   Home depot's return policy is much better, but they don't have the same amount of car parts and household goods.

I sure hope you did not mean that you friend used the items then returned them??!

I think both Beta and Imma are complaining about people who do exactly that. BiomedicalDJ is clearly returning unused merchandise that is still in season and that can legitimately be sold as new to somebody else.

(edited to fix quotes and clarify)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 02:36:42 PM by TheGrimSqueaker »

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18843 on: October 12, 2017, 12:11:32 PM »
This guy definitely uses the items and returns them. He bought a hole saw recently, used it to chew through two doors, and then returned it. Also broke during use (likely due to user error), but he was going to return it regardless.

Dude seems kinda unethical in general. His boss is out this week, so he decided to take half-days every day. I...doubt this was cleared with the boss before-hand.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 12:21:01 PM by A Definite Beta Guy »

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18844 on: October 12, 2017, 12:22:35 PM »
This guy definitely uses the items and returns them. He bought a hole saw recently, used it to chew through two doors, and then returned it. Also broke during use (likely due to user error), but he was going to return it regardless.

Dude seems kinda unethical in general. His boss is out this week, so he decided to take half-days every day. I...doubt this was cleared with the boss before-hand.

Don't know if this leads to more work than you, but yeah if that happened at my work it would be reported (small office with only a few other employees so this would be noticed). I personally hate people like your coworker, my guess is that he is a shitbag to the retail employees that he cons to returns the items and then thinks that he's a genius when he's bragging about it to his friends. Yes, I made a lot of assumptions here.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18845 on: October 12, 2017, 12:45:00 PM »
This guy definitely uses the items and returns them. He bought a hole saw recently, used it to chew through two doors, and then returned it. Also broke during use (likely due to user error), but he was going to return it regardless.

Dude seems kinda unethical in general. His boss is out this week, so he decided to take half-days every day. I...doubt this was cleared with the boss before-hand.

Don't know if this leads to more work than you, but yeah if that happened at my work it would be reported (small office with only a few other employees so this would be noticed). I personally hate people like your coworker, my guess is that he is a shitbag to the retail employees that he cons to returns the items and then thinks that he's a genius when he's bragging about it to his friends. Yes, I made a lot of assumptions here.
There are assumptions and there are extrapolations.  I think you extrapolated provided data.  If someone is an ass in front of you, he's also likely as ass away from you.

Liberal return policies are useful for a lot of people.  Maybe they don't want to try it on in the store, or with another outfit they have at home, or order online, or for someone who isn't there.  Buy it, see if it works out as intended, and when it doesn't return it.  People will buy $100's of stuff and return half of it, but they still probably spent more than they would have with no return policy.  But most of this is returned without it really being used.

There are a lot more people like that than there are that "abuse" the policy.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18846 on: October 12, 2017, 01:44:45 PM »

On-Topic:
One of my co-workers wants me to get a sweater from LL Bean, retail $100. But it's okay, I can just return it in a few months, after winter, when it's no longer in season.

Like...do people regularly do this? He seems to do it all the time. He just returned a belt he got a few years ago because he decided he didn't like the style anymore. He regularly buys shirts and tie clips and ties and the like for formal wedding or events and returns them after the weekend. I...don't get this?

The hilarious part about this is that I am willing to stake money that someone in this forum somewhere does this regularly and would count it as a mustachian, money-saving life pro-tip xD

I would never buy something with the premeditated intention of using then retiring it.  But I have no qualms about returning things Iím genuinely unhappy with, and if that item or store has a ďlifetime guarantee,Ē then I have no problem returning it years later if it fails.  I figure Iím paying a markup high enough to compensate the retailer for this.

Things Iíve returned:

ď20 yearĒ Led bulbs that failed after a few years
An air mattress that leaked after three years (only a few uses) to bed bath and beyond
Food from Costco that molded within 1-2 days
Clothes to places like banana republic when I didnít like the fit, I found a flaw, or they shrank in the wash (was told they were preshrunk)
Tools to Home Depot that broke (not user error) or didnít do the job/fit (they expect this)

I think itís pretty reasonable.  I definitely keep all my Costco receipts for expensive stuff that I may need to return after itís short warranty period expires, although itís never happened so far for anything particularly expensive

JLee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18847 on: October 12, 2017, 02:25:26 PM »

On-Topic:
One of my co-workers wants me to get a sweater from LL Bean, retail $100. But it's okay, I can just return it in a few months, after winter, when it's no longer in season.

Like...do people regularly do this? He seems to do it all the time. He just returned a belt he got a few years ago because he decided he didn't like the style anymore. He regularly buys shirts and tie clips and ties and the like for formal wedding or events and returns them after the weekend. I...don't get this?

The hilarious part about this is that I am willing to stake money that someone in this forum somewhere does this regularly and would count it as a mustachian, money-saving life pro-tip xD

I would never buy something with the premeditated intention of using then retiring it.  But I have no qualms about returning things Iím genuinely unhappy with, and if that item or store has a ďlifetime guarantee,Ē then I have no problem returning it years later if it fails.  I figure Iím paying a markup high enough to compensate the retailer for this.

Things Iíve returned:

ď20 yearĒ Led bulbs that failed after a few years
An air mattress that leaked after three years (only a few uses) to bed bath and beyond
Food from Costco that molded within 1-2 days
Clothes to places like banana republic when I didnít like the fit, I found a flaw, or they shrank in the wash (was told they were preshrunk)
Tools to Home Depot that broke (not user error) or didnít do the job/fit (they expect this)

I think itís pretty reasonable.  I definitely keep all my Costco receipts for expensive stuff that I may need to return after itís short warranty period expires, although itís never happened so far for anything particularly expensive

eh?

https://www.costco.com/member-privileges-conditions.html

"Short warranty period" and "Costco" don't really go together.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18848 on: October 12, 2017, 03:05:12 PM »
This guy definitely uses the items and returns them. He bought a hole saw recently, used it to chew through two doors, and then returned it. Also broke during use (likely due to user error), but he was going to return it regardless.

Dude seems kinda unethical in general. His boss is out this week, so he decided to take half-days every day. I...doubt this was cleared with the boss before-hand.

Don't know if this leads to more work than you, but yeah if that happened at my work it would be reported (small office with only a few other employees so this would be noticed). I personally hate people like your coworker, my guess is that he is a shitbag to the retail employees that he cons to returns the items and then thinks that he's a genius when he's bragging about it to his friends. Yes, I made a lot of assumptions here.
Ha, well, you aren't entirely off-base. I've been with him on his returns a couple times, and the stores normally put up no fuss. They have quite generous return policies.

The way he talks about it, he seems to think it's perfectly normal. He doesn't talk about it any differently than he talks about getting lunch or what kind of housework needs done.

He DOES have a braggadocious personality in general. And he is somewhat curt to people he does not like, and describes interactions with them in a highly manipulative, commanding manner. He's an above average employee, but it doesn't seem like management is overly fond of him...

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18849 on: October 12, 2017, 05:15:00 PM »
On returning worn items...

I bought new running shoes recently (well, they're technically a birthday gift from my husband since I need them but don't want to break my streak of more than 12 months without buying shoes).

Went for a run in them and I could tell they just didn't suit my feet. I had tried them on, of course, but the arch support that was fine in the shop was painful after a couple of kays.

I was totally upfront about having worn them, and exchanged them for a different pair (which happened to be cheaper) and a gift card.

Renting items by buying them, knowing full well you intend to return them, is such a dick move.

Anyone else remember the archaic concept of appro?