Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 7642511 times)

VaCPA

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20100 on: April 17, 2018, 10:50:24 AM »
I'm at work, so I guess this qualifies for this thread. My wife just texted me and sent a picture of matching shoes she likes for herself and our 2 year old daughter(wife's BFF). $50 for her pair, $34 for the kid pair. It would be super adorable but $84, give me a break....

savedough

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20101 on: April 17, 2018, 11:11:14 AM »
so true! i keep looking at my solo (and depressingly affordable) wedding ring and feeling morose at the sight of its obvious loneliness.

now would probably be a good time to also mention that this cw just announced that she's getting divorced! because of course. she told me that she and her soon-to-be ex-husband are going to sell their house, which they hope to make $30-40K on, and then that money will almost cover all of their credit card debt.

I love stories about marriage-related debt lasting longer than the marriage. Probably because I'm a terrible person.

The one person I've ever met with three bands on their wedding ring finger had an engagement ring and wedding band set, and then right around some milestone anniversary found a vintage ring that looks like it was made to fit with the set and got it for the milestone. But they didn't go into debt for any of it.

Guilty - I wear three rings on my ring finger.
1- Engagement ring - we spent more than I should admit on a MMM forum.  Paid in full with cash.   Cost more than honeymoon and wedding, but I really do love it and I intend to have it (and the guy it goes with) until the day I die.
2 - Matching wedding band.  $250
3- Plain band bc I work in food manufacturing and cannot wear any rings with stones and was tired of being asked if I was dating anyone.  (Young female manager in manufacturing.)  <$100  Had it for ten years now.

It actually worked out well because I have three kiddos and I think there is some cheesy symbolism.   3 rings (3 kids).  Don't pop my bubble.   

I should also point out that I inherited two engagement rings from my grandma last year when she died (widowed and remarried).   They are gorgeous but I don't know what to do with them...   Save them for the first two of my kids to get marrried?   They are a pretty classic design so they might still be in style.

avalanchecity

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20102 on: April 17, 2018, 12:13:07 PM »
so true! i keep looking at my solo (and depressingly affordable) wedding ring and feeling morose at the sight of its obvious loneliness.

now would probably be a good time to also mention that this cw just announced that she's getting divorced! because of course. she told me that she and her soon-to-be ex-husband are going to sell their house, which they hope to make $30-40K on, and then that money will almost cover all of their credit card debt.

I love stories about marriage-related debt lasting longer than the marriage. Probably because I'm a terrible person.

The one person I've ever met with three bands on their wedding ring finger had an engagement ring and wedding band set, and then right around some milestone anniversary found a vintage ring that looks like it was made to fit with the set and got it for the milestone. But they didn't go into debt for any of it.

Guilty - I wear three rings on my ring finger.
1- Engagement ring - we spent more than I should admit on a MMM forum.  Paid in full with cash.   Cost more than honeymoon and wedding, but I really do love it and I intend to have it (and the guy it goes with) until the day I die.
2 - Matching wedding band.  $250
3- Plain band bc I work in food manufacturing and cannot wear any rings with stones and was tired of being asked if I was dating anyone.  (Young female manager in manufacturing.)  <$100  Had it for ten years now.

It actually worked out well because I have three kiddos and I think there is some cheesy symbolism.   3 rings (3 kids).  Don't pop my bubble.   

I should also point out that I inherited two engagement rings from my grandma last year when she died (widowed and remarried).   They are gorgeous but I don't know what to do with them...   Save them for the first two of my kids to get marrried?   They are a pretty classic design so they might still be in style.

i think that's fine! you have a good reason for having the third one, and you never went into debt for any of them, which is important. personally, a big appeal of the MMM lifestyle to me is that you save so you can comfortably make the few splurges that are really important to you (comfortably obviously being the key word here). your engagement ring seems to fall under that.

also, i would absolutely save the rings for them. i would have loved to have a family ring to use.

Apples

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20103 on: April 17, 2018, 12:24:55 PM »

3- Plain band bc I work in food manufacturing and cannot wear any rings with stones and was tired of being asked if I was dating anyone.  (Young female manager in manufacturing.)  <$100  Had it for ten years now.


Oh, I sooooo understand this.  I got a no-stones wedding band because I 1. wanted to be able to wear it at work (farm, but food safety rules apply 1/3 of the year) for romantic feelings reasons and 2. I wanted to ward off exactly that. Gah.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20104 on: April 17, 2018, 01:15:11 PM »
I actually have 4 bands on my left ring finger.
I have my engagement ring (thin band 3/4 carat solitaire), my wedding ring, which wraps on either side of the engagement ring, and then a birth stone ring for my stillborn son.  During the summer when it is super humid, I don't wear the wedding band and just do my engagement ring and my birth stone ring.

I don't wear any other jewelry at all.

Goldilocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20105 on: April 17, 2018, 02:41:37 PM »
A company I am an independent contractor for had a problem with payments this month. Payments are to be issued at the latest by the 15th, but usually show up earlier. Yesterday (the 16th) many people still hadn’t been paid... and the entire community melted down. Hundreds of people complaining of overdraft fees, not being able to pay their mortgage, not being able to buy food/gas, demanding we go on strike or form a union. Because a payment was late by one day. One.

I have literallly been in awe watching how many people’s lives have been completely turned upside down by this. Any suggestions like having an emergency fund/credit card/not having automatic payments withdrawn the same day you think the money will be there have been shot down. They can’t afford to save money/plan ahead like this.

I mean... I’ve always known people often live paycheck to paycheck. But I have never had a front row seat to tens or even hundreds of people enter an extreme emergency situation within 24 hours.

avalanchecity

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20106 on: April 17, 2018, 02:59:12 PM »
A company I am an independent contractor for had a problem with payments this month. Payments are to be issued at the latest by the 15th, but usually show up earlier. Yesterday (the 16th) many people still hadn’t been paid... and the entire community melted down. Hundreds of people complaining of overdraft fees, not being able to pay their mortgage, not being able to buy food/gas, demanding we go on strike or form a union. Because a payment was late by one day. One.

I have literallly been in awe watching how many people’s lives have been completely turned upside down by this. Any suggestions like having an emergency fund/credit card/not having automatic payments withdrawn the same day you think the money will be there have been shot down. They can’t afford to save money/plan ahead like this.

I mean... I’ve always known people often live paycheck to paycheck. But I have never had a front row seat to tens or even hundreds of people enter an extreme emergency situation within 24 hours.

i work for the u.s. federal government, and i see the beginnings of that meltdown every time there's a threat of a government shutdown. most of us wouldn't recieve a paycheck until the shutdown ended, at which point we've historically recieved all of our backpay. however, every single time there's even a threat of a shutdown, half my office paces the floor, panicking about how they're going to feed their families or afford their rent/mortgage if they don't get paid on time. i don't get it. i mean, i'd be upset if we weren't going to be backpaid, but we are -- and since we're furloughed, most of us are actually at home for all this time we're eventually paid for. it's literally free paid vacation. how do you not have anything set aside at all? how is this threat enough to destroy your finances?

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20107 on: April 17, 2018, 05:05:16 PM »
A company I am an independent contractor for had a problem with payments this month. Payments are to be issued at the latest by the 15th, but usually show up earlier. Yesterday (the 16th) many people still hadn’t been paid... and the entire community melted down. Hundreds of people complaining of overdraft fees, not being able to pay their mortgage, not being able to buy food/gas, demanding we go on strike or form a union. Because a payment was late by one day. One.

I have literallly been in awe watching how many people’s lives have been completely turned upside down by this. Any suggestions like having an emergency fund/credit card/not having automatic payments withdrawn the same day you think the money will be there have been shot down. They can’t afford to save money/plan ahead like this.

I mean... I’ve always known people often live paycheck to paycheck. But I have never had a front row seat to tens or even hundreds of people enter an extreme emergency situation within 24 hours.

i work for the u.s. federal government, and i see the beginnings of that meltdown every time there's a threat of a government shutdown. most of us wouldn't recieve a paycheck until the shutdown ended, at which point we've historically recieved all of our backpay. however, every single time there's even a threat of a shutdown, half my office paces the floor, panicking about how they're going to feed their families or afford their rent/mortgage if they don't get paid on time. i don't get it. i mean, i'd be upset if we weren't going to be backpaid, but we are -- and since we're furloughed, most of us are actually at home for all this time we're eventually paid for. it's literally free paid vacation. how do you not have anything set aside at all? how is this threat enough to destroy your finances?

Seems like there’s a market for “shutdown insurance” that fronts you the money but also claims any backpay you receive

bluebelle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20108 on: April 17, 2018, 05:14:34 PM »
I'm at work, so I guess this qualifies for this thread. My wife just texted me and sent a picture of matching shoes she likes for herself and our 2 year old daughter(wife's BFF). $50 for her pair, $34 for the kid pair. It would be super adorable but $84, give me a break....
have toddler's shoes changed?  I can't imagine a shoe that's appropriate for your daughter that your wife would want to wear, unless they're matching runners....but WTF, won't your daughter outgrow the shoes in 3 minutes?

Although, I do remember as a kid, my Mom made the occaisional matching dress for her and I for family weddings and such....but 'made them' is the key phrase.

eazyebeneezer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20109 on: April 17, 2018, 06:50:05 PM »
I just noticed that this is page 403, and a 403b is my ticket to freedom!!!!! That is all :-)

VaCPA

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20110 on: April 17, 2018, 07:02:52 PM »
I'm at work, so I guess this qualifies for this thread. My wife just texted me and sent a picture of matching shoes she likes for herself and our 2 year old daughter(wife's BFF). $50 for her pair, $34 for the kid pair. It would be super adorable but $84, give me a break....
have toddler's shoes changed?  I can't imagine a shoe that's appropriate for your daughter that your wife would want to wear, unless they're matching runners....but WTF, won't your daughter outgrow the shoes in 3 minutes?

Although, I do remember as a kid, my Mom made the occaisional matching dress for her and I for family weddings and such....but 'made them' is the key phrase.

No, they're cute shoes. Like slip on Keds type but nicer looking. But not $84 cute

Dragonswan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20111 on: April 18, 2018, 01:51:47 PM »
A company I am an independent contractor for had a problem with payments this month. Payments are to be issued at the latest by the 15th, but usually show up earlier. Yesterday (the 16th) many people still hadn’t been paid... and the entire community melted down. Hundreds of people complaining of overdraft fees, not being able to pay their mortgage, not being able to buy food/gas, demanding we go on strike or form a union. Because a payment was late by one day. One.

I have literallly been in awe watching how many people’s lives have been completely turned upside down by this. Any suggestions like having an emergency fund/credit card/not having automatic payments withdrawn the same day you think the money will be there have been shot down. They can’t afford to save money/plan ahead like this.

I mean... I’ve always known people often live paycheck to paycheck. But I have never had a front row seat to tens or even hundreds of people enter an extreme emergency situation within 24 hours.

i work for the u.s. federal government, and i see the beginnings of that meltdown every time there's a threat of a government shutdown. most of us wouldn't recieve a paycheck until the shutdown ended, at which point we've historically recieved all of our backpay. however, every single time there's even a threat of a shutdown, half my office paces the floor, panicking about how they're going to feed their families or afford their rent/mortgage if they don't get paid on time. i don't get it. i mean, i'd be upset if we weren't going to be backpaid, but we are -- and since we're furloughed, most of us are actually at home for all this time we're eventually paid for. it's literally free paid vacation. how do you not have anything set aside at all? how is this threat enough to destroy your finances?
From your lips to God's ears.  Unless you just started working here, you know there is a possibility of a shutdown at the beginning of every fiscal year. And if they do continuing resolutions, every expiration date is a potential shut down.  PLAN FOR IT PEOPLE!  One year I thought there was a greater than usual chance of a shut down so I took vacation and went on a cruise.  That way I wasn't around for them to cancel leave and have to come in for half a day to do shutdown procedures.  Turns out they didn't shut down, much to my chagrin, but I was going to burn vacation days at some point, so that was as good a time as any.

Rowellen

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20112 on: April 18, 2018, 04:13:46 PM »
A company I am an independent contractor for had a problem with payments this month. Payments are to be issued at the latest by the 15th, but usually show up earlier. Yesterday (the 16th) many people still hadn’t been paid... and the entire community melted down. Hundreds of people complaining of overdraft fees, not being able to pay their mortgage, not being able to buy food/gas, demanding we go on strike or form a union. Because a payment was late by one day. One.

I have literallly been in awe watching how many people’s lives have been completely turned upside down by this. Any suggestions like having an emergency fund/credit card/not having automatic payments withdrawn the same day you think the money will be there have been shot down. They can’t afford to save money/plan ahead like this.

I mean... I’ve always known people often live paycheck to paycheck. But I have never had a front row seat to tens or even hundreds of people enter an extreme emergency situation within 24 hours.

i work for the u.s. federal government, and i see the beginnings of that meltdown every time there's a threat of a government shutdown. most of us wouldn't recieve a paycheck until the shutdown ended, at which point we've historically recieved all of our backpay. however, every single time there's even a threat of a shutdown, half my office paces the floor, panicking about how they're going to feed their families or afford their rent/mortgage if they don't get paid on time. i don't get it. i mean, i'd be upset if we weren't going to be backpaid, but we are -- and since we're furloughed, most of us are actually at home for all this time we're eventually paid for. it's literally free paid vacation. how do you not have anything set aside at all? how is this threat enough to destroy your finances?

Seems like there’s a market for “shutdown insurance” that fronts you the money but also claims any backpay you receive

I believe this already exists in the form of payday lenders.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20113 on: April 18, 2018, 06:46:18 PM »
A company I am an independent contractor for had a problem with payments this month. Payments are to be issued at the latest by the 15th, but usually show up earlier. Yesterday (the 16th) many people still hadn’t been paid... and the entire community melted down. Hundreds of people complaining of overdraft fees, not being able to pay their mortgage, not being able to buy food/gas, demanding we go on strike or form a union. Because a payment was late by one day. One.

I have literallly been in awe watching how many people’s lives have been completely turned upside down by this. Any suggestions like having an emergency fund/credit card/not having automatic payments withdrawn the same day you think the money will be there have been shot down. They can’t afford to save money/plan ahead like this.

I mean... I’ve always known people often live paycheck to paycheck. But I have never had a front row seat to tens or even hundreds of people enter an extreme emergency situation within 24 hours.

i work for the u.s. federal government, and i see the beginnings of that meltdown every time there's a threat of a government shutdown. most of us wouldn't recieve a paycheck until the shutdown ended, at which point we've historically recieved all of our backpay. however, every single time there's even a threat of a shutdown, half my office paces the floor, panicking about how they're going to feed their families or afford their rent/mortgage if they don't get paid on time. i don't get it. i mean, i'd be upset if we weren't going to be backpaid, but we are -- and since we're furloughed, most of us are actually at home for all this time we're eventually paid for. it's literally free paid vacation. how do you not have anything set aside at all? how is this threat enough to destroy your finances?

Seems like there’s a market for “shutdown insurance” that fronts you the money but also claims any backpay you receive

I believe this already exists in the form of payday lenders.

Would a payday lender really loan money to someone who is furloughed?  And repeatedly, without being paid back for the last loan, indefinitely?

Even if so, normal payday rates don’t reflect the low risk, so it’s unlikely anyone would use them.  A real insurer would charge a much more reasonable premium

You could self insure of course, by “saving” but we are talking about people who don’t do that
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 06:49:22 PM by dragoncar »

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20114 on: April 19, 2018, 06:11:32 AM »
A company I am an independent contractor for had a problem with payments this month. Payments are to be issued at the latest by the 15th, but usually show up earlier. Yesterday (the 16th) many people still hadn’t been paid... and the entire community melted down. Hundreds of people complaining of overdraft fees, not being able to pay their mortgage, not being able to buy food/gas, demanding we go on strike or form a union. Because a payment was late by one day. One.

I have literallly been in awe watching how many people’s lives have been completely turned upside down by this. Any suggestions like having an emergency fund/credit card/not having automatic payments withdrawn the same day you think the money will be there have been shot down. They can’t afford to save money/plan ahead like this.

I mean... I’ve always known people often live paycheck to paycheck. But I have never had a front row seat to tens or even hundreds of people enter an extreme emergency situation within 24 hours.

i work for the u.s. federal government, and i see the beginnings of that meltdown every time there's a threat of a government shutdown. most of us wouldn't recieve a paycheck until the shutdown ended, at which point we've historically recieved all of our backpay. however, every single time there's even a threat of a shutdown, half my office paces the floor, panicking about how they're going to feed their families or afford their rent/mortgage if they don't get paid on time. i don't get it. i mean, i'd be upset if we weren't going to be backpaid, but we are -- and since we're furloughed, most of us are actually at home for all this time we're eventually paid for. it's literally free paid vacation. how do you not have anything set aside at all? how is this threat enough to destroy your finances?

Seems like there’s a market for “shutdown insurance” that fronts you the money but also claims any backpay you receive

I believe this already exists in the form of payday lenders.

Would a payday lender really loan money to someone who is furloughed?  And repeatedly, without being paid back for the last loan, indefinitely?

Even if so, normal payday rates don’t reflect the low risk, so it’s unlikely anyone would use them.  A real insurer would charge a much more reasonable premium

You could self insure of course, by “saving” but we are talking about people who don’t do that

This is not only an issue for paycheck-to-paycheck living people. Since I am a mustachian, I have been investing a part of my paycheck into stock every month as soon as I can. Then I try to guess how much I will need for the rest of the month. If I then get an unexpected really large bill and my pay arrived later than expected, I have a problem. Last month, I expected my paycheck on the 17thm but it came on the 20th. I had lots of bills that we about to be paid automatically on the 17th and 18th. I had to ask DH to pay some of them for me. Since then I have learned that, even though my salary often arrives on the 15th or 17th, the official date is actually the 20th. It had just arrived extra early the rest of the year.

barbaz

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20115 on: April 19, 2018, 06:33:50 AM »
I have been investing a part of my paycheck into stock every month as soon as I can. Then I try to guess how much I will need for the rest of the month. If I then get an unexpected really large bill and my pay arrived later than expected, I have a problem.
Sounds way too stressful to me. How much money would you lose by keeping one month‘s expenses in your checking account?

avalanchecity

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20116 on: April 19, 2018, 08:01:27 AM »
today i was talking with a coworker - let's call him dan. we have a project coming up in a few weeks that only a few of the employees are qualified to do, but since it's on a weekend they would get overtime. i said if it were me, i'd jump at the chance to earn overtime - i'm salaried, so i don't have that option. dan, whose wife, "stella," is one of the employees who are qualified to do the overtime job, said he and his wife never went for overtime. i asked why, since i know neither of them earn very much, and dan said, "well, stella did the math after she got her paycheck the last time she worked overtime, and the government took so much from it in taxes that she ended up getting only half of what she was supposed to. so we decided never to work overtime again unless we had to." i tried to explain that that isn't how taxes work - but dan just made a joke about it going over his head and then changed the subject.

imagine leaving time and a half pay on the table because it was taxed! i don't get it.

Dragonswan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20117 on: April 19, 2018, 08:09:52 AM »
A company I am an independent contractor for had a problem with payments this month. Payments are to be issued at the latest by the 15th, but usually show up earlier. Yesterday (the 16th) many people still hadn’t been paid... and the entire community melted down. Hundreds of people complaining of overdraft fees, not being able to pay their mortgage, not being able to buy food/gas, demanding we go on strike or form a union. Because a payment was late by one day. One.

I have literallly been in awe watching how many people’s lives have been completely turned upside down by this. Any suggestions like having an emergency fund/credit card/not having automatic payments withdrawn the same day you think the money will be there have been shot down. They can’t afford to save money/plan ahead like this.

I mean... I’ve always known people often live paycheck to paycheck. But I have never had a front row seat to tens or even hundreds of people enter an extreme emergency situation within 24 hours.

i work for the u.s. federal government, and i see the beginnings of that meltdown every time there's a threat of a government shutdown. most of us wouldn't recieve a paycheck until the shutdown ended, at which point we've historically recieved all of our backpay. however, every single time there's even a threat of a shutdown, half my office paces the floor, panicking about how they're going to feed their families or afford their rent/mortgage if they don't get paid on time. i don't get it. i mean, i'd be upset if we weren't going to be backpaid, but we are -- and since we're furloughed, most of us are actually at home for all this time we're eventually paid for. it's literally free paid vacation. how do you not have anything set aside at all? how is this threat enough to destroy your finances?

Seems like there’s a market for “shutdown insurance” that fronts you the money but also claims any backpay you receive

I believe this already exists in the form of payday lenders.

Would a payday lender really loan money to someone who is furloughed?  And repeatedly, without being paid back for the last loan, indefinitely?

Even if so, normal payday rates don’t reflect the low risk, so it’s unlikely anyone would use them.  A real insurer would charge a much more reasonable premium

You could self insure of course, by “saving” but we are talking about people who don’t do that
In these parts, during the last real shut down some federal credit unions were extending interest free "payday" loans to folks that have their paychecks direct deposited to them.  So at the very least these folks could open an account and let the credit union be their emergency fund.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20118 on: April 19, 2018, 09:17:27 AM »
Well that’s smart!

solon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20119 on: April 19, 2018, 10:10:14 AM »
today i was talking with a coworker - let's call him dan. we have a project coming up in a few weeks that only a few of the employees are qualified to do, but since it's on a weekend they would get overtime. i said if it were me, i'd jump at the chance to earn overtime - i'm salaried, so i don't have that option. dan, whose wife, "stella," is one of the employees who are qualified to do the overtime job, said he and his wife never went for overtime. i asked why, since i know neither of them earn very much, and dan said, "well, stella did the math after she got her paycheck the last time she worked overtime, and the government took so much from it in taxes that she ended up getting only half of what she was supposed to. so we decided never to work overtime again unless we had to." i tried to explain that that isn't how taxes work - but dan just made a joke about it going over his head and then changed the subject.

imagine leaving time and a half pay on the table because it was taxed! i don't get it.

This is unbelievably common. I think more people believe this than not. I wish there was some simple way to explain how it works.

Dabnasty

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20120 on: April 19, 2018, 10:11:27 AM »
today i was talking with a coworker - let's call him dan. we have a project coming up in a few weeks that only a few of the employees are qualified to do, but since it's on a weekend they would get overtime. i said if it were me, i'd jump at the chance to earn overtime - i'm salaried, so i don't have that option. dan, whose wife, "stella," is one of the employees who are qualified to do the overtime job, said he and his wife never went for overtime. i asked why, since i know neither of them earn very much, and dan said, "well, stella did the math after she got her paycheck the last time she worked overtime, and the government took so much from it in taxes that she ended up getting only half of what she was supposed to. so we decided never to work overtime again unless we had to." i tried to explain that that isn't how taxes work - but dan just made a joke about it going over his head and then changed the subject.

imagine leaving time and a half pay on the table because it was taxed! i don't get it.

These are tough conversations. I've had similar situations where a coworker makes a gripe about what they're paying in taxes but the complaint they make doesn't make any sense and it's even worse if they're making decisions based on their misunderstanding. I feel obligated to say something but I try to say it in a nice way rather than "you're wrong, here's how it actually works". Then like you said, they get flustered or make a joke and change the subject. It's almost as if the idea of understanding taxes is more stressful than not understanding them.

Recent complaint: Damn Trump is taking away the mortgage deduction and costing me $3,000!

1) no 2) if that was changing it wouldn't affect this year's taxes 3) their mortgage is not large enough to amount to $3,000

And they pay someone to file their taxes who presumably should be answering questions about this stuff.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20121 on: April 19, 2018, 10:55:06 AM »
I have been investing a part of my paycheck into stock every month as soon as I can. Then I try to guess how much I will need for the rest of the month. If I then get an unexpected really large bill and my pay arrived later than expected, I have a problem.
Sounds way too stressful to me. How much money would you lose by keeping one month‘s expenses in your checking account?


I do that too, but I do keep money in a savings account as well. By only keeping the amount of money I need in my checking account (which is this month's bills + 150 for spending) I avoid impulse buying and get slightly more interest. In case of true emergency, I can always use my credit card. I've always done it this way, I don't think I've ever had more than a couple of hundred € in my account. My boss is often on the late side with payments as well, but all our automatic payments are withdrawn from the joint account. I've set up an automatic transfer from my savings to the joint account on the same day my partner gets paid (and pays his share) and then I put the money back into my savings as soon as I get paid.


today i was talking with a coworker - let's call him dan. we have a project coming up in a few weeks that only a few of the employees are qualified to do, but since it's on a weekend they would get overtime. i said if it were me, i'd jump at the chance to earn overtime - i'm salaried, so i don't have that option. dan, whose wife, "stella," is one of the employees who are qualified to do the overtime job, said he and his wife never went for overtime. i asked why, since i know neither of them earn very much, and dan said, "well, stella did the math after she got her paycheck the last time she worked overtime, and the government took so much from it in taxes that she ended up getting only half of what she was supposed to. so we decided never to work overtime again unless we had to." i tried to explain that that isn't how taxes work - but dan just made a joke about it going over his head and then changed the subject.

imagine leaving time and a half pay on the table because it was taxed! i don't get it.

These are tough conversations. I've had similar situations where a coworker makes a gripe about what they're paying in taxes but the complaint they make doesn't make any sense and it's even worse if they're making decisions based on their misunderstanding. I feel obligated to say something but I try to say it in a nice way rather than "you're wrong, here's how it actually works". Then like you said, they get flustered or make a joke and change the subject. It's almost as if the idea of understanding taxes is more stressful than not understanding them.

Recent complaint: Damn Trump is taking away the mortgage deduction and costing me $3,000!

1) no 2) if that was changing it wouldn't affect this year's taxes 3) their mortgage is not large enough to amount to $3,000

And they pay someone to file their taxes who presumably should be answering questions about this stuff.

I prepare people's taxes and I always make sure I explain to them, in detail, what I'm doing. First of all because I feel that they should understand their own tax forms because they are legally responsible, and everyone should understand as much as they can about their own financial situation, but also because when you get talking you often find out possible deductions they hadn't told you about. Many people are extremely surprised about the way I work. They are used to just sitting and playing on their phone while I'm doing the work and they sign when I'm done.

couponvan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20122 on: April 19, 2018, 11:16:30 AM »
today i was talking with a coworker - let's call him dan. we have a project coming up in a few weeks that only a few of the employees are qualified to do, but since it's on a weekend they would get overtime. i said if it were me, i'd jump at the chance to earn overtime - i'm salaried, so i don't have that option. dan, whose wife, "stella," is one of the employees who are qualified to do the overtime job, said he and his wife never went for overtime. i asked why, since i know neither of them earn very much, and dan said, "well, stella did the math after she got her paycheck the last time she worked overtime, and the government took so much from it in taxes that she ended up getting only half of what she was supposed to. so we decided never to work overtime again unless we had to." i tried to explain that that isn't how taxes work - but dan just made a joke about it going over his head and then changed the subject.

imagine leaving time and a half pay on the table because it was taxed! i don't get it.

This is unbelievably common. I think more people believe this than not. I wish there was some simple way to explain how it works.

They are valuing their time more than the $. You say they don't get paid very much, but at a certain point the government does start taking more than you imagine in taxes. 

Here's my scenario. I max my and DH's 401(k), H.S.A. We are in the dreaded AMT bump zone, and far enough away from the end of the zone that me working more wouldn't push us over.
https://www.kitces.com/blog/evaluating-exposure-to-the-alternative-minimum-tax-and-strategies-to-reduce-the-amt-bite/ This is a link that goes into the issue. It's from 2014, but you'll get the idea.

I'm not complaining that I don't make enough money - I just won't work extra because it's not worth it "to me". Here's my taxes - for every $ extra we make, the Federal government takes 35%. The state takes 3.5%. SS takes 6.2% and Medicare takes 1.45%. We are also subject to a .9% medicare recapture tax. That means 47% of any additional earnings goes straight to the government.

I'd rather have the time.  I have enough $ at this point to retire on schedule. 

Now if that same coworker was talking about how in debt they were and how they could never retire, I might have a different response.

ETA - If it was California, with 9.3% tax rates, then the woman would be correct about 1/2 going to taxes of some sort.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 11:20:57 AM by couponvan »
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Dabnasty

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20123 on: April 19, 2018, 01:27:49 PM »
today i was talking with a coworker - let's call him dan. we have a project coming up in a few weeks that only a few of the employees are qualified to do, but since it's on a weekend they would get overtime. i said if it were me, i'd jump at the chance to earn overtime - i'm salaried, so i don't have that option. dan, whose wife, "stella," is one of the employees who are qualified to do the overtime job, said he and his wife never went for overtime. i asked why, since i know neither of them earn very much, and dan said, "well, stella did the math after she got her paycheck the last time she worked overtime, and the government took so much from it in taxes that she ended up getting only half of what she was supposed to. so we decided never to work overtime again unless we had to." i tried to explain that that isn't how taxes work - but dan just made a joke about it going over his head and then changed the subject.

imagine leaving time and a half pay on the table because it was taxed! i don't get it.

This is unbelievably common. I think more people believe this than not. I wish there was some simple way to explain how it works.

They are valuing their time more than the $. You say they don't get paid very much, but at a certain point the government does start taking more than you imagine in taxes. 

Here's my scenario. I max my and DH's 401(k), H.S.A. We are in the dreaded AMT bump zone, and far enough away from the end of the zone that me working more wouldn't push us over.
https://www.kitces.com/blog/evaluating-exposure-to-the-alternative-minimum-tax-and-strategies-to-reduce-the-amt-bite/ This is a link that goes into the issue. It's from 2014, but you'll get the idea.

I'm not complaining that I don't make enough money - I just won't work extra because it's not worth it "to me". Here's my taxes - for every $ extra we make, the Federal government takes 35%. The state takes 3.5%. SS takes 6.2% and Medicare takes 1.45%. We are also subject to a .9% medicare recapture tax. That means 47% of any additional earnings goes straight to the government.

I'd rather have the time.  I have enough $ at this point to retire on schedule. 

Now if that same coworker was talking about how in debt they were and how they could never retire, I might have a different response.

ETA - If it was California, with 9.3% tax rates, then the woman would be correct about 1/2 going to taxes of some sort.

Good of you to give them the benefit of the doubt but it doesn't sound like they're in the 35% tax bracket.

Regardless, I think the point is that they're paying the same tax on the overtime as they are on any other additional income. It could be both though; they don't understand how taxes work and they also don't want more money badly enough to work more hours. Maybe the tax thing was just an excuse made to OP rather than saying "we don't want the money enough to work more"

Regardless, they're turning down 1.5x pay while working for 1x pay.

VaCPA

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20124 on: April 19, 2018, 02:12:29 PM »
today i was talking with a coworker - let's call him dan. we have a project coming up in a few weeks that only a few of the employees are qualified to do, but since it's on a weekend they would get overtime. i said if it were me, i'd jump at the chance to earn overtime - i'm salaried, so i don't have that option. dan, whose wife, "stella," is one of the employees who are qualified to do the overtime job, said he and his wife never went for overtime. i asked why, since i know neither of them earn very much, and dan said, "well, stella did the math after she got her paycheck the last time she worked overtime, and the government took so much from it in taxes that she ended up getting only half of what she was supposed to. so we decided never to work overtime again unless we had to." i tried to explain that that isn't how taxes work - but dan just made a joke about it going over his head and then changed the subject.

imagine leaving time and a half pay on the table because it was taxed! i don't get it.

This is unbelievably common. I think more people believe this than not. I wish there was some simple way to explain how it works.

I'm a CPA so have a firm grasp on the US taxation system but it often surprises me how little some people understand it, even basic concepts. But I think I'm also taking for granted how hard to understand it can be, for people not in accounting or tax who don't have to think about it much.

I was having a conversation with my MIL several weeks ago, and discussing the prospect of her working/earning more. She's a nurse who has moved into teaching and had opportunities to teach more. She was worried it would push her into the next tax bracket and increase the amount she paid. I had to explain how the marginal tax brackets work. If you go into the next tax bracket your entire income isn't taxed at that amount, just the amount that crossed into the new tax bracket. So...don't worry about making more money...

solon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20125 on: April 19, 2018, 02:15:34 PM »
today i was talking with a coworker - let's call him dan. we have a project coming up in a few weeks that only a few of the employees are qualified to do, but since it's on a weekend they would get overtime. i said if it were me, i'd jump at the chance to earn overtime - i'm salaried, so i don't have that option. dan, whose wife, "stella," is one of the employees who are qualified to do the overtime job, said he and his wife never went for overtime. i asked why, since i know neither of them earn very much, and dan said, "well, stella did the math after she got her paycheck the last time she worked overtime, and the government took so much from it in taxes that she ended up getting only half of what she was supposed to. so we decided never to work overtime again unless we had to." i tried to explain that that isn't how taxes work - but dan just made a joke about it going over his head and then changed the subject.

imagine leaving time and a half pay on the table because it was taxed! i don't get it.

This is unbelievably common. I think more people believe this than not. I wish there was some simple way to explain how it works.

I'm a CPA so have a firm grasp on the US taxation system but it often surprises me how little some people understand it, even basic concepts. But I think I'm also taking for granted how hard to understand it can be, for people not in accounting or tax who don't have to think about it much.

I was having a conversation with my MIL several weeks ago, and discussing the prospect of her working/earning more. She's a nurse who has moved into teaching and had opportunities to teach more. She was worried it would push her into the next tax bracket and increase the amount she paid. I had to explain how the marginal tax brackets work. If you go into the next tax bracket your entire income isn't taxed at that amount, just the amount that crossed into the new tax bracket. So...don't worry about making more money...

BINGO! That's exactly what I'm talking about. People think if they make more money, they'll actually bring home less. And there are so many people who think this!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20126 on: April 19, 2018, 02:16:34 PM »
today i was talking with a coworker - let's call him dan. we have a project coming up in a few weeks that only a few of the employees are qualified to do, but since it's on a weekend they would get overtime. i said if it were me, i'd jump at the chance to earn overtime - i'm salaried, so i don't have that option. dan, whose wife, "stella," is one of the employees who are qualified to do the overtime job, said he and his wife never went for overtime. i asked why, since i know neither of them earn very much, and dan said, "well, stella did the math after she got her paycheck the last time she worked overtime, and the government took so much from it in taxes that she ended up getting only half of what she was supposed to. so we decided never to work overtime again unless we had to." i tried to explain that that isn't how taxes work - but dan just made a joke about it going over his head and then changed the subject.

imagine leaving time and a half pay on the table because it was taxed! i don't get it.

This is unbelievably common. I think more people believe this than not. I wish there was some simple way to explain how it works.

They are valuing their time more than the $. You say they don't get paid very much, but at a certain point the government does start taking more than you imagine in taxes. 

Here's my scenario. I max my and DH's 401(k), H.S.A. We are in the dreaded AMT bump zone, and far enough away from the end of the zone that me working more wouldn't push us over.
https://www.kitces.com/blog/evaluating-exposure-to-the-alternative-minimum-tax-and-strategies-to-reduce-the-amt-bite/ This is a link that goes into the issue. It's from 2014, but you'll get the idea.

I'm not complaining that I don't make enough money - I just won't work extra because it's not worth it "to me". Here's my taxes - for every $ extra we make, the Federal government takes 35%. The state takes 3.5%. SS takes 6.2% and Medicare takes 1.45%. We are also subject to a .9% medicare recapture tax. That means 47% of any additional earnings goes straight to the government.

I'd rather have the time.  I have enough $ at this point to retire on schedule. 

Now if that same coworker was talking about how in debt they were and how they could never retire, I might have a different response.

ETA - If it was California, with 9.3% tax rates, then the woman would be correct about 1/2 going to taxes of some sort.

Good of you to give them the benefit of the doubt but it doesn't sound like they're in the 35% tax bracket.

Regardless, I think the point is that they're paying the same tax on the overtime as they are on any other additional income. It could be both though; they don't understand how taxes work and they also don't want more money badly enough to work more hours. Maybe the tax thing was just an excuse made to OP rather than saying "we don't want the money enough to work more"

Regardless, they're turning down 1.5x pay while working for 1x pay.

There are some employers that have tiered fees for things like health insurance, where you pay more if your earnings exceed a specific threshold. That (not tax) could reduce someone's take-home pay in an unpleasant way if the person is just below the cutoff line.
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alanB

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20127 on: April 20, 2018, 09:28:07 AM »
today i was talking with a coworker - let's call him dan. we have a project coming up in a few weeks that only a few of the employees are qualified to do, but since it's on a weekend they would get overtime. i said if it were me, i'd jump at the chance to earn overtime - i'm salaried, so i don't have that option. dan, whose wife, "stella," is one of the employees who are qualified to do the overtime job, said he and his wife never went for overtime. i asked why, since i know neither of them earn very much, and dan said, "well, stella did the math after she got her paycheck the last time she worked overtime, and the government took so much from it in taxes that she ended up getting only half of what she was supposed to. so we decided never to work overtime again unless we had to." i tried to explain that that isn't how taxes work - but dan just made a joke about it going over his head and then changed the subject.

imagine leaving time and a half pay on the table because it was taxed! i don't get it.

This is unbelievably common. I think more people believe this than not. I wish there was some simple way to explain how it works.

They are valuing their time more than the $. You say they don't get paid very much, but at a certain point the government does start taking more than you imagine in taxes. 

Here's my scenario. I max my and DH's 401(k), H.S.A. We are in the dreaded AMT bump zone, and far enough away from the end of the zone that me working more wouldn't push us over.
https://www.kitces.com/blog/evaluating-exposure-to-the-alternative-minimum-tax-and-strategies-to-reduce-the-amt-bite/ This is a link that goes into the issue. It's from 2014, but you'll get the idea.

I'm not complaining that I don't make enough money - I just won't work extra because it's not worth it "to me". Here's my taxes - for every $ extra we make, the Federal government takes 35%. The state takes 3.5%. SS takes 6.2% and Medicare takes 1.45%. We are also subject to a .9% medicare recapture tax. That means 47% of any additional earnings goes straight to the government.

I'd rather have the time.  I have enough $ at this point to retire on schedule. 

Now if that same coworker was talking about how in debt they were and how they could never retire, I might have a different response.

ETA - If it was California, with 9.3% tax rates, then the woman would be correct about 1/2 going to taxes of some sort.

Good of you to give them the benefit of the doubt but it doesn't sound like they're in the 35% tax bracket.

Regardless, I think the point is that they're paying the same tax on the overtime as they are on any other additional income. It could be both though; they don't understand how taxes work and they also don't want more money badly enough to work more hours. Maybe the tax thing was just an excuse made to OP rather than saying "we don't want the money enough to work more"

Regardless, they're turning down 1.5x pay while working for 1x pay.

There are some employers that have tiered fees for things like health insurance, where you pay more if your earnings exceed a specific threshold. That (not tax) could reduce someone's take-home pay in an unpleasant way if the person is just below the cutoff line.

If they are really not making much they could also hit the limit for EIC, or free school lunches, or something like that.  However, I agree that for the vast (overwhelming) majority of people earning +$1 does not result in >$1 more tax or increased spending.  If congress suddenly switched marginal rates to net rates and dropped the percentages, I think that most people would be celebrating the lower "tax rate" and would have no idea what it meant. i.e. "Hooray, I was paying 25% and they dropped it down to 20%, that saves me 5%!!"

By the River

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20128 on: April 20, 2018, 10:14:00 AM »
Had a meeting with a manager in another department this week.  We both knew that he did not make the finalist for the open director position in his group.  During the meeting, he decided to vent and said that not being promoted was going to cost him x million (salary and pension) over time.  (I'm not in any way associated with the promotion decisions) 

After the meeting, I went back to my retirement spreadsheet and put in his age, salary and previous director’s salary.  I could get to the x million figure if he worked until he was 67…not worth it to me. 

a286

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20129 on: April 20, 2018, 11:16:53 AM »
All the tax talk reminded me of this... husbands coworkers do not give great financial advice. Things like needing to carry a credit card balance, etc. We've been saving for a down payment for a house, though we're not sure we'll be buying because we've talked about moving states, and where we are now the housing market is pretty nutty. His one coworker keeps telling him we need to increase our budget because we can afford more house due to the tax breaks from having a mortgage...

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20130 on: April 20, 2018, 12:30:28 PM »
One of my coworkers is very young and is slowly learning about financial stuff as it comes up. Her attitude is really good overall. There was a discussion yesterday about credit scores. I overheard a bit of the conversation she had with another guy. He was about 90% right, but I just couldn't bear to let her be mislead. So I casually inserted myself in and casually provided the right info.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20131 on: April 20, 2018, 06:38:07 PM »
I'm a CPA so have a firm grasp on the US taxation system but it often surprises me how little some people understand it, even basic concepts. But I think I'm also taking for granted how hard to understand it can be, for people not in accounting or tax who don't have to think about it much.

I was having a conversation with my MIL several weeks ago, and discussing the prospect of her working/earning more. She's a nurse who has moved into teaching and had opportunities to teach more. She was worried it would push her into the next tax bracket and increase the amount she paid. I had to explain how the marginal tax brackets work. If you go into the next tax bracket your entire income isn't taxed at that amount, just the amount that crossed into the new tax bracket. So...don't worry about making more money...

Years ago, I had a coworker tell me she didn't want to invest in the stock market outside of retirement accounts due to increased taxes.  In my head, I said "By that logic, you should turn down all future raises."

Several years ago, DH & I worked with a lawyer to draw up a will & trust.  We were talking about the (US) estate tax kicking in at $5 million.  [We're not close to this mark - just making conversation.]  The lawyer said that if your estate was even $1 over $5 million, the *entire* estate would be taxed at whatever the estate tax rate was.  I said I thought the tax would only apply to the amount *over* $5 million but she was adamant.  I was thinking "Our taxes *never* work like that."  Also thinking "You're an estate lawyer and you don't know this?"

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20132 on: April 20, 2018, 07:12:29 PM »
I'm a CPA so have a firm grasp on the US taxation system but it often surprises me how little some people understand it, even basic concepts. But I think I'm also taking for granted how hard to understand it can be, for people not in accounting or tax who don't have to think about it much.

I was having a conversation with my MIL several weeks ago, and discussing the prospect of her working/earning more. She's a nurse who has moved into teaching and had opportunities to teach more. She was worried it would push her into the next tax bracket and increase the amount she paid. I had to explain how the marginal tax brackets work. If you go into the next tax bracket your entire income isn't taxed at that amount, just the amount that crossed into the new tax bracket. So...don't worry about making more money...

Years ago, I had a coworker tell me she didn't want to invest in the stock market outside of retirement accounts due to increased taxes.  In my head, I said "By that logic, you should turn down all future raises."

Several years ago, DH & I worked with a lawyer to draw up a will & trust.  We were talking about the (US) estate tax kicking in at $5 million.  [We're not close to this mark - just making conversation.]  The lawyer said that if your estate was even $1 over $5 million, the *entire* estate would be taxed at whatever the estate tax rate was.  I said I thought the tax would only apply to the amount *over* $5 million but she was adamant.  I was thinking "Our taxes *never* work like that."  Also thinking "You're an estate lawyer and you don't know this?"
That's scary that an estate lawyer doesn't know that.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20133 on: April 20, 2018, 07:50:44 PM »
I had this manager, we’ll call him Marco, who had done reasonably well for himself as a mechanical engineer.  He grew up working class in Italy, moved to the US and worked for a solar company that did well.  But at some point he married the daughter of a MegaTech VP and thus married into a lot of money and adopted an inflated lifestyle.  So here we are, working together at a struggling clean energy startup- neither of us is making very much.

One day he asks me if I’d like to join him for lunch, I reluctantly say yes, because have a feeling he’s going to want to pick the fanciest place in town instead of the cheap deli next door. On the way to the restaurant in his new car he mentions something about how living in the Bay Area is so expensive and how he can barely afford his daughters daycare.

“So, how much is daycare anyway?”
Marco: $2000 a month, it’s crazy!
“Yeah that’s nuts!”
M: I know, I’m just trying to make it work with other expenses like vacations and playing polo.
“Oh, you play polo? So you have a horse? (in the fanciest part of San Fran??)”
M: Well, in order to play polo you need at least 5 or 6 horses.
“What? Really??”
M: Yeah because there’s like 5 rounds and your horse gets tired after each one, so you need to switch it out for a new one after each round.
“Wow, well boarding all those horses certainly can’t be cheap!”
M: Tell me about it! But I’m pretty frugal (sensing my astonishment), my horses aren’t ultra fancy like everyone else’s at the club, mine are only like $30,000 each, but yeah I just have someone else take care of them. Anyway, I’m just hoping we can afford to go on vacation this year like we always do.
“I suppose you don’t have to go far, there are a lot of cheap places to travel in the US that are pretty cool.”
M: (condescendingly rolling his eyes) When we go on vacation it’s AT LEAST $25,000.  I like to take the whole family sailing in Europe.

Sometimes you just have to facepalm and move on.


dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20134 on: April 20, 2018, 09:36:51 PM »
So his FIL pays for everything and his salary covers his horse upkeep?

couponvan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20135 on: April 20, 2018, 09:47:23 PM »
So his FIL pays for everything and his salary covers his horse upkeep?

Reminds me of when DH was a new lawyer making an amazing $80k as a first year attorney in the 90’s. Coworker’s parents made her use her salary as the budget for her clothes. She was distraught.

Promptly married $ and quit lawyering to design handbags. We garnered a wedding invite....Best. Wedding. Ever. I probably could have retired on what they spent for the wedding.
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Hirondelle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20136 on: April 21, 2018, 02:20:31 AM »
One of my co-workers finished her PhD contract but is still rounding up, so now she's getting unemployment benefits (70% of salary for max 6 months or so). She seems in no rush to find another job and just went on a 4 week trip to Japan to celebrate the end of the PhD (this was booked before she realized she wouldn't finish in time). Seems like she can cover her bills using the 70% and has savings for the trips. Good for her.

However, I chatted about it with another co-worker who really couldn't understand how she was taking vacations and not really planning on getting a job before the summer. He's a bit further in his career already and has been through the short term unemployment thing himself.
He: "Taking a 4 week trip to Japan doesn't really look like she's on unemployment money and needs to find a new job asap"
Me: "Well, she told me once she wasn't really planning to work again before September as she wanted some decompression time and had a couple more short trips planned. It's just frustrating for her the thesis isn't finished yet."
He: "But 70% really isn't much to live off and add all the trips to that. Japan's expensive!"
Me: "I figured she must have savings and budgetted for it that she could manage. It's not that hard to save up a few 1000s over the 4 years of your PhD, even if she only saved a little monthly. She doesn't have a family to support so all the income just goes to her"
He: "That seems unlikely to me. She rents a house from a friend so maybe her rent is really low, or her parents must be helping her!" (she's 28..)

I'm not sure how well she manages her money and who of us was on the right end, but I was kinda surprised that I couldn't get him to believe that it would be an option that she was able to live off the 70% (or even less?) and used savings for the trips.
He also looks shocked at me every time I tell him I'm not planning to run straight into a PostDoc or industry job once I finish.

Update on this co-worker (the one on unemployment money). I guess we have to move her to the anti-antimustachian wall. We talked about her looking for jobs and moving cities next month. She said "I'm so looking forward to move to [beach city] in early summer and still be unemployed! I know I'll have to find a job, but for now I still have enough money so I don't feel the pressure so much yet."

Hope she won't let herself run out of all her savings, but big win for her that's she's gotten herself into this position and can chill/decompress from the PhD without rushing for another job. No parental help for sure.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20137 on: April 23, 2018, 06:29:34 AM »
One of my co-workers finished her PhD contract but is still rounding up, so now she's getting unemployment benefits (70% of salary for max 6 months or so). She seems in no rush to find another job and just went on a 4 week trip to Japan to celebrate the end of the PhD (this was booked before she realized she wouldn't finish in time). Seems like she can cover her bills using the 70% and has savings for the trips. Good for her.

However, I chatted about it with another co-worker who really couldn't understand how she was taking vacations and not really planning on getting a job before the summer. He's a bit further in his career already and has been through the short term unemployment thing himself.
He: "Taking a 4 week trip to Japan doesn't really look like she's on unemployment money and needs to find a new job asap"
Me: "Well, she told me once she wasn't really planning to work again before September as she wanted some decompression time and had a couple more short trips planned. It's just frustrating for her the thesis isn't finished yet."
He: "But 70% really isn't much to live off and add all the trips to that. Japan's expensive!"
Me: "I figured she must have savings and budgetted for it that she could manage. It's not that hard to save up a few 1000s over the 4 years of your PhD, even if she only saved a little monthly. She doesn't have a family to support so all the income just goes to her"
He: "That seems unlikely to me. She rents a house from a friend so maybe her rent is really low, or her parents must be helping her!" (she's 28..)

I'm not sure how well she manages her money and who of us was on the right end, but I was kinda surprised that I couldn't get him to believe that it would be an option that she was able to live off the 70% (or even less?) and used savings for the trips.
He also looks shocked at me every time I tell him I'm not planning to run straight into a PostDoc or industry job once I finish.

Update on this co-worker (the one on unemployment money). I guess we have to move her to the anti-antimustachian wall. We talked about her looking for jobs and moving cities next month. She said "I'm so looking forward to move to [beach city] in early summer and still be unemployed! I know I'll have to find a job, but for now I still have enough money so I don't feel the pressure so much yet."

Hope she won't let herself run out of all her savings, but big win for her that's she's gotten herself into this position and can chill/decompress from the PhD without rushing for another job. No parental help for sure.

Let's hope for her sake that finding a job is easy by the time she goes searching. And that she has a health insurance while being unemployed.
But I can't really blame a person for taking a sabbatical when she can afford it.

dmac680chi

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Overheard at Work
« Reply #20138 on: April 24, 2018, 04:06:13 PM »
I’ve got a small gem from work today. I’m a substitute teacher so typically I bop around to various schools each day to get a taste of different school environments. I was in the teachers lounge talking to a SECA which is a assistant of sorts for students. Paid equal or maybe slightly more then a sub but not a full time classroom teacher. This person is from California and so we got to talking as my family visits once a year out there.

It was myself, older teacher, and young assistant teacher. I’m 24 myself and the assistant teacher was 24 or 25 and presumably lives with her boyfriend. I asked what her plans were after the school year. She said she’s in grad school and she’ll finish in June. She’s thinking of moving to Denver. I said “I’ve heard Denver is great but keep in mind that its a hot place to live and rent has skyrocketed. I know of people who even have to live a significant ways away to afford living their. She then says “my best friend and her boyfriend moved there for the lifestyle to ski and the mountains and hiking. She’s in $15k credit card debt but says that they need ski lift season passes because “that’s the lifestyle that we came here for” and that it’s worth it”. Aside from in my head thinking “how damn stupid” I just wonder how long that relationship could potentially last given all that credit card debt.


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« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 09:40:05 PM by dmac680chi »

SunnyDays

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20139 on: April 24, 2018, 09:37:11 PM »
^^^^^^^
Um, it's THERE, not THEIR.  Teacher, huh?

dmac680chi

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20140 on: April 24, 2018, 09:39:15 PM »
^^^^^^^
Um, it's THERE, not THEIR.  Teacher, huh?

Fair enough, also not a English teacher and was trying to type quick. I’ll fix it thanks!


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Lyngi

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20141 on: April 24, 2018, 10:17:41 PM »
Latin grammar is the new black, no, I mean orange foam.

There are involuntary hour reductions happening again at work.   Each time this has happened, one or more of the employees at my job have voluntarily reduced their hours so everyone could keep their job.  Now, there is no more room to cut  and hard choices are being made.  Coworker 1 tells me that he can't take anymore cuts,  he is on the edge right now.  I have seniority and I'm taking a cut in hours.  CW2 (with the least seniority) is taking a big, big cut.   CW1 has a big, new house with a big, new 30 year mortgage. 
    I'm probably FI at this point.  Paid off house.  No debt.  But I'm going to eliminate my expensive hobby to save up a bigger cash cushion.   I should have done this a long time ago.  Sigh (sob)

DutchGirl

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20142 on: April 25, 2018, 02:29:49 AM »
today i was talking with a coworker - let's call him dan. we have a project coming up in a few weeks that only a few of the employees are qualified to do, but since it's on a weekend they would get overtime. i said if it were me, i'd jump at the chance to earn overtime - i'm salaried, so i don't have that option. dan, whose wife, "stella," is one of the employees who are qualified to do the overtime job, said he and his wife never went for overtime. i asked why, since i know neither of them earn very much, and dan said, "well, stella did the math after she got her paycheck the last time she worked overtime, and the government took so much from it in taxes that she ended up getting only half of what she was supposed to. so we decided never to work overtime again unless we had to." i tried to explain that that isn't how taxes work - but dan just made a joke about it going over his head and then changed the subject.

imagine leaving time and a half pay on the table because it was taxed! i don't get it.

This is unbelievably common. I think more people believe this than not. I wish there was some simple way to explain how it works.

Yup. Here in the Netherlands, bonuses have taxes withheld at 55%. (People are normally in the 42% and in the 52% tax bracket, so 55% is pretty high - I guess to make really sure that the Dutch IRS doesn't miss out on any euro). But of course, when tax time comes around, you get to actually pay taxes based on your total compensation, and so then the 55% tax rate on the bonus is often reduced to 42% or 52%, whatever your real tax obligation is.

And of course, just this weekend I had to explain that to a 40+ year old IT-guy with a university diploma in mathematics as well, who had recently received such a bonus and was mad about "the 55% taxes" ...
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 02:36:58 AM by DutchGirl »

DutchGirl

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20143 on: April 25, 2018, 02:39:23 AM »
There are involuntary hour reductions happening again at work. Each time this has happened, one or more of the employees at my job have voluntarily reduced their hours so everyone could keep their job.  (...)
    I'm probably FI at this point.  Paid off house.  No debt.  But I'm going to eliminate my expensive hobby to save up a bigger cash cushion.   I should have done this a long time ago.  Sigh (sob)

Maybe it is time to say goodbye to this particular job, Lyngi? It sounds like your workplace is struggling anyway, so that can't be a very nice environment, plus it isn't a really secure job. I don't know your job or situation, but perhaps you could make it work by reducing expenses, getting a parttime job for a few years, getting a different job for a few years, or doing some consulting?

Zoot

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20144 on: April 25, 2018, 05:34:40 AM »
BINGO! That's exactly what I'm talking about. People think if they make more money, they'll actually bring home less. And there are so many people who think this!

Yes, yes, yes--I had the opportunity to explain this to a highly-educated, high-earning acquaintance recently, who I'd have assumed to understand marginal tax rates; his mind was blown. 

I was also able to share info on how the mortgage recast process works with this same person--I could see his eyes widening as he realized he was going to be able to save thousands of dollars as a result.  :)

avalanchecity

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20145 on: April 25, 2018, 08:07:11 AM »
a co-worker of mine is trying to save to bring her boyfriend to the US from a country in southeast asia.* she's gotten a second job (minimum wage, part time) to help save, but she's only been getting about ten hours a week - a ~6 hour shift on saturday and a few hours scattered across the evenings. she wanted to be working a lot more, and is disappointed in how little she's earning from that job. despite this, she's also decided that since she's working so much, she can't be bothered with grocery shopping or cooking anymore. as a result, she brings in a breakfast from mcdonald's every morning, has burger king for lunch every day, and goes through the drive through for dinner.

we used to go to the gym together in the morning, but she's "too tired now from all the extra working," so not only is she a) gaining an unhealthy amount of weight - she's breathing really heavily after walking the flight of stairs up to our office, b) eating food that is absolutely terrible for her and her diabetes, but c) she is spending more on fast food than she's actually earning at her second job, which she got solely to save more money.

i've tried talking to her gently about it - she comes to me for advice sometimes so i've laid out her earnings and spending every week for her to see, but she still hasn't changed anything. it's infuriating to watch a co-worker who is trying so hard self-sabotage like this. 

*not even going to start on this, because i have a lot of feelings about it - none of which are really any of my business to have

GilbertB

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20146 on: April 25, 2018, 09:07:34 AM »
On the offshore vessel I work on, during coffee break, we were discussing someone from shore we know who took a large loan out to buy a silly car.

There was about 10 of us (Electricians and Engineers, apprentice to chief) and we all agreed that loans are only to buy a house, nothing else... None of us owe much if any money, and if we are somewhat spendy, we spend only "excess" cash, and that is usually into hobbies with, at worst, a near to positive cash-flow.
It was kind of weird to have total agreement over something... Normally we cant even agree on the best way to plug in the coffee machine...

Gave me a little faith in humanity that there are bubbles of sanity lost in the ocean of stupid.

barbaz

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20147 on: April 25, 2018, 09:37:42 AM »
On the offshore vessel I work on
...
Gave me a little faith in humanity that there are bubbles of sanity lost in the ocean of stupid.
Not much faith though when these bubbles are literally lost in the ocean.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20148 on: April 25, 2018, 10:12:56 AM »
Tax story...

My husband got a bonus from his company. It was just every employee got $500.  He never got it.  He called HR to find out why, and it turns out they treated it like a regular paycheck.  Well, he has his paychecks set to have an extra withholding, and he also pulls a high dollar amount (not percentage) from the paychecks for retirement savings.  Between those two- every dollar of the bonus was pulled.

OK then... we of course got the taxes back at the end of the year, and then he had to readjust his 401k withholdings to not go over the max.

Cali

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20149 on: April 25, 2018, 09:03:44 PM »
On the offshore vessel I work on, during coffee break, we were discussing someone from shore we know who took a large loan out to buy a silly car.

There was about 10 of us (Electricians and Engineers, apprentice to chief) and we all agreed that loans are only to buy a house, nothing else... None of us owe much if any money, and if we are somewhat spendy, we spend only "excess" cash, and that is usually into hobbies with, at worst, a near to positive cash-flow.
It was kind of weird to have total agreement over something... Normally we cant even agree on the best way to plug in the coffee machine...

Gave me a little faith in humanity that there are bubbles of sanity lost in the ocean of stupid.

I envy you. I work at a place where company leadership is discussing going public. I’m super excited about the potential for company stock and the process of getting listed on a stock exchange. Nobody around me could even be bothered to open the email even after I told them what it contained. But they’ll happily spend hours discussing restaurant options and online shopping.