Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 5639310 times)

prosaic

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 204
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1200 on: December 17, 2013, 06:49:01 PM »
People often talk about buying second hand clothes here. In my opinion doing so while earning above average income is mildly immoral. It deprives truly poor people an opportunity to have an acceptable clothing. I personally would never do it.

We're talking about stores that are open to the public, and that use sales revenue for non-profit benefit. We're NOT talking about a place designed for social service agencies to send clients to find clothing using vouchers and that has low volume of clothing.

How is it ever immoral to shop at a retail establishment open to the public?

ocandelario

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1201 on: December 17, 2013, 07:58:31 PM »
We're talking about stores that are open to the public, and that use sales revenue for non-profit benefit. We're NOT talking about a place designed for social service agencies to send clients to find clothing using vouchers and that has low volume of clothing.

How is it ever immoral to shop at a retail establishment open to the public?
[/quote]

Agreed.  If the store owners wanted only the needy to shop there or if they thought it was inappropriate for financially secure people to shop there, they would have made that clear (e.g. this is what soup kitchens do, for example).

HappierAtHome

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5205
  • Location: Australia
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1202 on: December 17, 2013, 08:39:03 PM »
Coworker: I wish I could be on holidays all the time. I was so sad that I had to come back to work after my last lot of leave.
Me: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to going on permanent leave some day - I call it retirement!
Coworker: No, it's impossible to retire before 75 with the cost of living here and by then I'll be too tired from working to enjoy my retirement.

Coworker seemed almost proud of how hard his life is, so I let it go.

greenmimama

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 718
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1203 on: December 18, 2013, 11:44:09 AM »
Not work.  But I was recently chatting with a group of mothers of my kids' friends, and the conversation turned to cleaning services.  Someone asked me who I use, and I told them that we don't have a cleaning service.  I was the only one of this group of about 10 people who didn't have a cleaning service.   But the best was the reply from one of the other mothers: "But your house has always been so clean whenever we come over, how does that happen without a cleaning service?"   I actually found myself explaining that not having a cleaning service is not the same as not cleaning your house.

That is really funny, I am all for cleaning help if you can afford it, but obviously it isn't really a need, unless you are on bedrest or have some sort of real reason you can't clean.

kms

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 182
  • Location: Austin, TX
  • Minion Money Hippie
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1204 on: December 19, 2013, 04:32:04 AM »
For us, the cleaning lady is a luxury we don't want to miss anymore. Both my wife and I work long hours and I'm out of town two or three days a week. Not having to clean the apartment gives us pretty much a day off for some quality time together, and to us that's worth a lot more than saving a few bucks a month.
It's got that typical Thinkpad ruggedness. Drop it, and your floor may be in serious danger.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7167
  • Registered member
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1205 on: December 19, 2013, 04:37:03 AM »
For us, the cleaning lady is a luxury we don't want to miss anymore. Both my wife and I work long hours and I'm out of town two or three days a week. Not having to clean the apartment gives us pretty much a day off for some quality time together, and to us that's worth a lot more than saving a few bucks a month.

I guess I'm a wierdo, but I don't like random people coming in and touching my stuff

brand new stash

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 148
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1206 on: December 19, 2013, 06:38:28 AM »
Not work.  But I was recently chatting with a group of mothers of my kids' friends, and the conversation turned to cleaning services.  Someone asked me who I use, and I told them that we don't have a cleaning service.  I was the only one of this group of about 10 people who didn't have a cleaning service.   But the best was the reply from one of the other mothers: "But your house has always been so clean whenever we come over, how does that happen without a cleaning service?"   I actually found myself explaining that not having a cleaning service is not the same as not cleaning your house.

WOW. Way to go! This is my dream. Is it tough getting the whole family on board?

My kids have never had a cleaning service, so I'm not even sure they realize such a thing exists.  My husband had one before we got married, but had no problem with the transition.  We have a family cleaning session on Saturday mornings to get the bulk of it done and everyone pitches in.  I actually think it is good for kids to learn how to clean up after themselves and help clean for the family.

My horror at the statement wasn't that they have cleaning services, but that they didn't realize it was an optional luxury, not a requirement for non-slovenly life.

Le0

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 216
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
    • My Path to Financial Independence in 2014
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1207 on: December 19, 2013, 07:20:40 AM »
I just have to reference the recent threads about cleaning services. *FACE PUNCH*

Why focus all our energy on getting cheaper phones, cutting cable, Not Driving our cars to get groceries, Investing well, not eating out, doing a side hustle, shopping around for insurance etc etc the list goes on. Then you turn around and pay someone $80 a month for something you could be doing yourself? That goes against the whole idea of Badassity.

$80*12mth = $960 a year

@7% that's over $24,000 in 15 years

Rant done.
I am working hard to move towards Financial Independence.

Insanity

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1208 on: December 19, 2013, 07:53:34 AM »
I just have to reference the recent threads about cleaning services. *FACE PUNCH*

Why focus all our energy on getting cheaper phones, cutting cable, Not Driving our cars to get groceries, Investing well, not eating out, doing a side hustle, shopping around for insurance etc etc the list goes on. Then you turn around and pay someone $80 a month for something you could be doing yourself? That goes against the whole idea of Badassity.

$80*12mth = $960 a year

@7% that's over $24,000 in 15 years

Rant done.

Umm, you don't want to see how much we pay for a cleaning service :)  (we pay $80 every two weeks, so it costs a lot more than that)..  But then again, I'm getting paid $90 an hour for my side hustle so the net of $70 gain an hour is worth it.

nawhite

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 985
  • Location: An RV somewhere in the West
    • The Reckless Choice
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1209 on: December 19, 2013, 08:15:03 AM »
I just have to reference the recent threads about cleaning services. *FACE PUNCH*

Why focus all our energy on getting cheaper phones, cutting cable, Not Driving our cars to get groceries, Investing well, not eating out, doing a side hustle, shopping around for insurance etc etc the list goes on. Then you turn around and pay someone $80 a month for something you could be doing yourself? That goes against the whole idea of Badassity.

$80*12mth = $960 a year

@7% that's over $24,000 in 15 years

Rant done.

Umm, you don't want to see how much we pay for a cleaning service :)  (we pay $80 every two weeks, so it costs a lot more than that)..  But then again, I'm getting paid $90 an hour for my side hustle so the net of $70 gain an hour is worth it.

Do you really spend the time you would be cleaning on your side hustle? I know I wouldn't. I would use it playing video games or exercising or doing other projects around the house. The exercise and the other projects are probably worth more than $20/hour to me, but not by much. If you do always use that time productively, then good job.
We live in an RV full time while still working remotely. Check it out at http://therecklesschoice.com

Insanity

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1210 on: December 19, 2013, 08:45:24 AM »
I just have to reference the recent threads about cleaning services. *FACE PUNCH*

Why focus all our energy on getting cheaper phones, cutting cable, Not Driving our cars to get groceries, Investing well, not eating out, doing a side hustle, shopping around for insurance etc etc the list goes on. Then you turn around and pay someone $80 a month for something you could be doing yourself? That goes against the whole idea of Badassity.

$80*12mth = $960 a year

@7% that's over $24,000 in 15 years

Rant done.

Umm, you don't want to see how much we pay for a cleaning service :)  (we pay $80 every two weeks, so it costs a lot more than that)..  But then again, I'm getting paid $90 an hour for my side hustle so the net of $70 gain an hour is worth it.

Do you really spend the time you would be cleaning on your side hustle? I know I wouldn't. I would use it playing video games or exercising or doing other projects around the house. The exercise and the other projects are probably worth more than $20/hour to me, but not by much. If you do always use that time productively, then good job.

Right now, I am pretty much working around the clock (except on weekends).  Don't get me wrong, I've had someone cleaning even when I wasn't doing two jobs.  But I wasn't watching my budget as closely as I am now. If it wasn't for those two jobs, I would be pushing to do the cleaning ourselves. 

The one thing that I have found with cleaning services -- there is always one thing they do that I don't like.   The previous one would sometimes not have access to a car to get here, or forgot the day, or (and I can't fault this) her kids would be sick.  She did an amazing job when she was here.  But we needed her every two weeks.  The current one is very consistent, but doesn't do nearly as thorough of a job.  My mom used to always tell me - just take 15-20 minutes a night and do one or two rooms.  You can pretty much do that.  Even bathrooms.   But I find myself doing what you do -- playing video games or watching TV or just relaxing.





Sleestaks4U

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1211 on: December 19, 2013, 10:45:35 AM »
"I'm saving to buy my daughter a $300 jacket that she wants for Christmas."
---- less than 5 minutes later ----
"I'm hoping the fuel assistance we received will get us to January before we have to spend our own money (on heating oil)"

I am considering not donating to the fuel assistance org next year.

mm1970

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4483
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1212 on: December 19, 2013, 12:44:49 PM »
I just have to reference the recent threads about cleaning services. *FACE PUNCH*

Why focus all our energy on getting cheaper phones, cutting cable, Not Driving our cars to get groceries, Investing well, not eating out, doing a side hustle, shopping around for insurance etc etc the list goes on. Then you turn around and pay someone $80 a month for something you could be doing yourself? That goes against the whole idea of Badassity.

$80*12mth = $960 a year

@7% that's over $24,000 in 15 years

Rant done.

I pay $1950 a year, more than twice that.

Just saying, your numbers are a little low.

Guizmo

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 241
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1213 on: December 19, 2013, 01:02:51 PM »
"I'm saving to buy my daughter a $300 jacket that she wants for Christmas."
---- less than 5 minutes later ----
"I'm hoping the fuel assistance we received will get us to January before we have to spend our own money (on heating oil)"

I am considering not donating to the fuel assistance org next year.

This person doesn't need fuel assistance, s/he needs financial literacy classes!

fodder69

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 163
  • Location: Charlotte, NC
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1214 on: December 19, 2013, 06:59:31 PM »
This thread diversion makes me want to go out and hire a cleaning person! Hmm, or maybe it is the tumbleweeds of dog hair I stir up as I mosey around the house.

But c'mon people, part of what we are trying to do here is live a good life *and* get ahead! This is not the "See how long you can survive on ground glass and dirt" forum. And I get so tired of telling those guys that brown glass is so much better for you nutritionally than clear glass...

Insanity

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1215 on: December 19, 2013, 07:19:39 PM »
He probably got the $80 figure from my post.

There are times where a housecleaner is not a "facepunch" type of thing. Mine was one of them. I had a newborn and a two year old in cloth diapers, plus two more in nighttime diapers that sometimes leaked. I was averaging three loads of laundry a day. I also ran the dishwasher twice a day. My six and eight year old were helping a lot with dishes, laundry, and picking up clutter. I had three kids younger than school age plus was homeshooling two.

 I could go on, but I can assure you I don't need a facepunch over having someone else vacuum for me twice a month during that season of my life.

facepunch??  you need a long vacation.

This thread diversion makes me want to go out and hire a cleaning person! Hmm, or maybe it is the tumbleweeds of dog hair I stir up as I mosey around the house.

But c'mon people, part of what we are trying to do here is live a good life *and* get ahead! This is not the "See how long you can survive on ground glass and dirt" forum. And I get so tired of telling those guys that brown glass is so much better for you nutritionally than clear glass...

guess you didn't hear about the brown glass recall….  found some umm..   yeah… never mind.

mgarl10024

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Location: UK
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1216 on: December 20, 2013, 03:37:58 AM »
I do think the cleaning service should be lost, if adhering to the guidance here: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/13/domestic-outsourcing-practical-or-wussypants/

MG

Gray Matter

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3012
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1217 on: December 20, 2013, 04:29:05 AM »
I just have to reference the recent threads about cleaning services. *FACE PUNCH*

Why focus all our energy on getting cheaper phones, cutting cable, Not Driving our cars to get groceries, Investing well, not eating out, doing a side hustle, shopping around for insurance etc etc the list goes on. Then you turn around and pay someone $80 a month for something you could be doing yourself? That goes against the whole idea of Badassity.

$80*12mth = $960 a year

@7% that's over $24,000 in 15 years

Rant done.

I'm for sure not going to tell you that I pay my cleaning service $125 a WEEK for an annual total of $6500, because that probably warrants an all-over-body punch.  BUT, I am going down to twice a month in the new year and am canceling all together when my husband gets back from his overseas assignment in June.

I've got three kids, three dogs, a full-time job, and an ailing mother I'm helping take care of...I'm keeping the damn cleaning service until June, I don't care what you say! (ducks and runs)

ace1224

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 469
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1218 on: December 20, 2013, 06:33:38 AM »
i pay someone to come deep clean once a quarter or so.  i super hate cleaning baseboards and will gladly outsource them.  even if i'm not doing anything productive with the time i save not doing them lol

rocksinmyhead

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1525
  • Location: Oklahoma
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1219 on: December 20, 2013, 06:50:04 AM »
He probably got the $80 figure from my post.

There are times where a housecleaner is not a "facepunch" type of thing. Mine was one of them. I had a newborn and a two year old in cloth diapers, plus two more in nighttime diapers that sometimes leaked. I was averaging three loads of laundry a day. I also ran the dishwasher twice a day. My six and eight year old were helping a lot with dishes, laundry, and picking up clutter. I had three kids younger than school age plus was homeshooling two.

 I could go on, but I can assure you I don't need a facepunch over having someone else vacuum for me twice a month during that season of my life.

facepunch??  you need a long vacation.

haha, that's what I was going to say. I'm impressed you're alive!

avonlea

  • Guest
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1220 on: December 20, 2013, 06:52:51 AM »
He probably got the $80 figure from my post.

There are times where a housecleaner is not a "facepunch" type of thing. Mine was one of them. I had a newborn and a two year old in cloth diapers, plus two more in nighttime diapers that sometimes leaked. I was averaging three loads of laundry a day. I also ran the dishwasher twice a day. My six and eight year old were helping a lot with dishes, laundry, and picking up clutter. I had three kids younger than school age plus was homeshooling two.

 I could go on, but I can assure you I don't need a facepunch over having someone else vacuum for me twice a month during that season of my life.

facepunch??  you need a long vacation.
And a medal!  Wow, Mom to 5, you make the rest of us parents look bad. :)

I've got three kids, three dogs, a full-time job, and an ailing mother I'm helping take care of...I'm keeping the damn cleaning service until June, I don't care what you say! (ducks and runs)
Lol!  I love your posts, Gray Matter.  Sometimes you really crack me up.

i pay someone to come deep clean once a quarter or so.  i super hate cleaning baseboards and will gladly outsource them.  even if i'm not doing anything productive with the time i save not doing them lol
I think that's the first time I've heard anyone mention baseboards when it comes to cleaning.  I hate them, too!
And avoiding baseboards is productive. lol



Le0

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 216
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
    • My Path to Financial Independence in 2014
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1221 on: December 20, 2013, 07:00:09 AM »
He probably got the $80 figure from my post.

There are times where a housecleaner is not a "facepunch" type of thing. Mine was one of them. I had a newborn and a two year old in cloth diapers, plus two more in nighttime diapers that sometimes leaked. I was averaging three loads of laundry a day. I also ran the dishwasher twice a day. My six and eight year old were helping a lot with dishes, laundry, and picking up clutter. I had three kids younger than school age plus was homeshooling two.

 I could go on, but I can assure you I don't need a facepunch over having someone else vacuum for me twice a month during that season of my life.

Good job on having an awesome family!!!! We just had our first so I don't know much about having more than one, we hope to get there. My grandmother had 11 and no cleaning service. I understand that its difficult but if we could act more like our grandparents we would be a lot more badass. I'm no shining example there are a lot of place in my life with the facepunch train comes a rolling through. 
I am working hard to move towards Financial Independence.

Insanity

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1222 on: December 20, 2013, 08:43:06 AM »
He probably got the $80 figure from my post.

There are times where a housecleaner is not a "facepunch" type of thing. Mine was one of them. I had a newborn and a two year old in cloth diapers, plus two more in nighttime diapers that sometimes leaked. I was averaging three loads of laundry a day. I also ran the dishwasher twice a day. My six and eight year old were helping a lot with dishes, laundry, and picking up clutter. I had three kids younger than school age plus was homeshooling two.

 I could go on, but I can assure you I don't need a facepunch over having someone else vacuum for me twice a month during that season of my life.

Good job on having an awesome family!!!! We just had our first so I don't know much about having more than one, we hope to get there. My grandmother had 11 and no cleaning service. I understand that its difficult but if we could act more like our grandparents we would be a lot more badass. I'm no shining example there are a lot of place in my life with the facepunch train comes a rolling through.

I truly appreciate what my grandparents went through (two world wars, the great depression, and a lot more -especially considering my heritage).  But this is  a straw man argument.  Our grandparents also grew up where families were central, schools could discipline their kids, and a lot of the distractions and wants of kids today were significantly different.  The sheer volume of consumer goods was significantly less.

Even when I grew up, my parents had to fight about not getting us cable (we didn't get it till I was older) or video game systems.  They didn't have to say no to tablets, cell phones, *insert random new designer shoe/shirt/etc*. 

I'm not saying that times are harder now, but it has been well proven that the more decisions you have to make, the harder it is to make good decisions that require energy.   Not to mention the lack of discipline schools can use now.

Kira

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 168
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Columbus, OH
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1223 on: December 20, 2013, 09:06:17 AM »
He probably got the $80 figure from my post.

There are times where a housecleaner is not a "facepunch" type of thing. Mine was one of them. I had a newborn and a two year old in cloth diapers, plus two more in nighttime diapers that sometimes leaked. I was averaging three loads of laundry a day. I also ran the dishwasher twice a day. My six and eight year old were helping a lot with dishes, laundry, and picking up clutter. I had three kids younger than school age plus was homeshooling two.

 I could go on, but I can assure you I don't need a facepunch over having someone else vacuum for me twice a month during that season of my life.

Good job on having an awesome family!!!! We just had our first so I don't know much about having more than one, we hope to get there. My grandmother had 11 and no cleaning service. I understand that its difficult but if we could act more like our grandparents we would be a lot more badass. I'm no shining example there are a lot of place in my life with the facepunch train comes a rolling through.

I bet your grandmother would have given her eyeteeth to be able to have a cleaning service come in now and then to catch up. Just because she did it herself (or, more likely, ran her household with the help of relatives and neighbors) does not make her a better person, nor the home she created better for her children than that of someone who used a cleaning service.

mm1970

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4483
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1224 on: December 20, 2013, 09:43:44 AM »
He probably got the $80 figure from my post.

There are times where a housecleaner is not a "facepunch" type of thing. Mine was one of them. I had a newborn and a two year old in cloth diapers, plus two more in nighttime diapers that sometimes leaked. I was averaging three loads of laundry a day. I also ran the dishwasher twice a day. My six and eight year old were helping a lot with dishes, laundry, and picking up clutter. I had three kids younger than school age plus was homeshooling two.

 I could go on, but I can assure you I don't need a facepunch over having someone else vacuum for me twice a month during that season of my life.
Yeah, but he was calculating it at once/month.  As someone who pays $75 every two weeks, once a month and my place would be a complete sty.

Trirod

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 75
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1225 on: December 20, 2013, 10:52:40 AM »
I do think the cleaning service should be lost, if adhering to the guidance here: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/13/domestic-outsourcing-practical-or-wussypants/

MG

But I think that the difference here is that by cleaning yourself, you are not learning new skills that could possibly translate into future earned income or large future reductions in expenses.  I fix my own car (saving about $100/hour labor), do my own home maintenance and improvement (that's at least $50/hour), but I am happy to pay somebody $25/hour or so to clean because I don't enjoy cleaning and I'm not learning new skills.

the fixer

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1037
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1226 on: December 20, 2013, 10:56:29 AM »
Another thing in the old days, there was way less junk in houses. Less toys, clothes, no DVDs, etc. Also, houses were typically smaller. Kids played outside more. So less need back then for help cleaning. I lament the amount of time I spend picking up other people's stuff in my house (which sometimes goes go "jail" in my closet.

*punch* that sounds like a personal problem, not a fault with society. What you're saying is your house is too big, you have too much stuff, and your kids need to get outside more.

I should start my own cleaning service and provide free catheters/bedpans for all you people.

And don't forget that you can't compare "hourly wage before taxes and marginal job expenses" to "hourly cost of cleaning service after taxes."

Le0

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 216
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
    • My Path to Financial Independence in 2014
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1227 on: December 20, 2013, 11:03:54 AM »
He probably got the $80 figure from my post.

There are times where a housecleaner is not a "facepunch" type of thing. Mine was one of them. I had a newborn and a two year old in cloth diapers, plus two more in nighttime diapers that sometimes leaked. I was averaging three loads of laundry a day. I also ran the dishwasher twice a day. My six and eight year old were helping a lot with dishes, laundry, and picking up clutter. I had three kids younger than school age plus was homeshooling two.

 I could go on, but I can assure you I don't need a facepunch over having someone else vacuum for me twice a month during that season of my life.

Good job on having an awesome family!!!! We just had our first so I don't know much about having more than one, we hope to get there. My grandmother had 11 and no cleaning service. I understand that its difficult but if we could act more like our grandparents we would be a lot more badass. I'm no shining example there are a lot of place in my life with the facepunch train comes a rolling through.

I bet your grandmother would have given her eyeteeth to be able to have a cleaning service come in now and then to catch up. Just because she did it herself (or, more likely, ran her household with the help of relatives and neighbors) does not make her a better person, nor the home she created better for her children than that of someone who used a cleaning service.

Sorry if I came off like she was better. I am completely referring to the money side of it. She simply didn't pay for that kind of stuff because they were farmers and couldn't afford. I am then suggesting that we could all do the same thing. Is this not what the forums are about?
I am working hard to move towards Financial Independence.

Insanity

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1228 on: December 20, 2013, 12:15:29 PM »
Another thing in the old days, there was way less junk in houses. Less toys, clothes, no DVDs, etc. Also, houses were typically smaller. Kids played outside more. So less need back then for help cleaning. I lament the amount of time I spend picking up other people's stuff in my house (which sometimes goes go "jail" in my closet.

*punch* that sounds like a personal problem, not a fault with society. What you're saying is your house is too big, you have too much stuff, and your kids need to get outside more.

I should start my own cleaning service and provide free catheters/bedpans for all you people.

And don't forget that you can't compare "hourly wage before taxes and marginal job expenses" to "hourly cost of cleaning service after taxes."


Just wondering -- how many kids do you have?

And that "bedpan" meme is horribly overplayed.

grantmeaname

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4309
  • Age: 25
  • Location: London
  • This night has silence and very little fear
    • The MMM Blogger Community
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1229 on: December 20, 2013, 12:21:01 PM »
Just wondering -- how many kids do you have?
What an interesting and relevant point you make.
Quote
And that "bedpan" meme is horribly overplayed.
So is the "no you don't need a new car" meme and the "you can afford to put more of your paycheck away each month to save for retirement" meme. This is a frugality site, not a don't-change-anything-and-bitch-that-life-is-really-hard site.

Le0

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 216
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
    • My Path to Financial Independence in 2014
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1230 on: December 20, 2013, 12:42:25 PM »
Just wondering -- how many kids do you have?
What an interesting and relevant point you make.
Quote
And that "bedpan" meme is horribly overplayed.
So is the "no you don't need a new car" meme and the "you can afford to put more of your paycheck away each month to save for retirement" meme. This is a frugality site, not a don't-change-anything-and-bitch-that-life-is-really-hard site.

Thanks
I am working hard to move towards Financial Independence.

nawhite

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 985
  • Location: An RV somewhere in the West
    • The Reckless Choice
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1231 on: December 20, 2013, 01:02:00 PM »
Lets try to keep this thread on topic to "Things Overheard at Work".

I've added another topic to move the discussion of house cleaning. Please discuss that there. Thanks!

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/house-cleaning/
We live in an RV full time while still working remotely. Check it out at http://therecklesschoice.com

Frugal Friar

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1232 on: December 20, 2013, 01:04:26 PM »
You guys complaining that you *need* a cleaning service do realize this is MMM, right?

I am new here, but it seems horribly against the idea of self-sufficiency and frugality to pay someone else to clean my house.  It also seems a little strange to try to justify it on a site dedicated to monetary badassity.  Just saying...

I am no where near a 50% savings rate yet, but even I don't have the luxury of being able to cut a cleaning service.  this seems like an amazing opportunity for you guys.  Cut the service, and simultaneously increase your savings and cut your expenses.  Your future, retired self will probably thank you.
Preaching the way and the 401(k)!

pichirino

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1233 on: December 20, 2013, 02:55:19 PM »
Did not overhear,but talked about directly and this is really a new one.
I was talking with a co-worker where the topic of me selling my car came up.
Everybody just kept asking why I do not buy a new car,I did not need to explain but to humor them
I told them I take the bus as commute and they straight out called me cheap.
I said frugal-ness leads to richness.

Another associate countered with "frugality is just the sugarcoated word for cheap"

Well not another word from my choices will be shared to them after that.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 02:56:51 PM by pichirino »

Rural

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4153
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1234 on: December 20, 2013, 07:16:59 PM »
Another thing in the old days, there was way less junk in houses. Less toys, clothes, no DVDs, etc. Also, houses were typically smaller. Kids played outside more. So less need back then for help cleaning. I lament the amount of time I spend picking up other people's stuff in my house (which sometimes goes go "jail" in my closet.

True, but you can do laundry without hanging a big kettle on a tripod in the backyard. :-)

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7167
  • Registered member
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1235 on: December 20, 2013, 07:47:46 PM »
Not money related but still funny:

[Women talking about losing weight]
W1: I tried all the diets, no fat, no carbohydrates, none of them work for me.
W2: I got this great diet, which allows me to keep my weight for several months now.
W1: Wow, what diet is that?
W2: I just eat less. (seriously)

[MOD EDIT: Spam removed]

But where will I buy my Acai berries?  This one weird tip can help you retire early.

Junior667

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1236 on: December 20, 2013, 08:39:22 PM »
"I'm going to get cable with Showtime, HBO and Cinemax so I can watch free movies."

Daleth

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1237 on: December 21, 2013, 08:54:57 AM »
I am new here, but it seems horribly against the idea of self-sufficiency and frugality to pay someone else to clean my house.  It also seems a little strange to try to justify it on a site dedicated to monetary badassity.  Just saying...

I don't define frugality as "never spending money unless I absolutely have to." I define it as being efficient with money. For instance, if I spend my time doing my actual job, I earn something like $75/hour. So do you think the MMM community would advise me to spend an hour cleaning, or to hire someone to clean for $20/hour and spend that hour working at my actual job?

That equation applies to pretty much everything. If I have a project that needs to be done, and paying someone to do it would cost me less money than I would lose if I took time off my job to do it, I pay someone to do it.

grantmeaname

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4309
  • Age: 25
  • Location: London
  • This night has silence and very little fear
    • The MMM Blogger Community
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1238 on: December 21, 2013, 09:16:27 AM »
That's irrelevant unless cleaning your house requires you to take unpaid leave from work. It doesn't.

mm1970

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4483
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1239 on: December 21, 2013, 09:41:21 AM »
Ha! I guess I don't understand the bedpan meme, and maybe I'm glad for that.

I don't know anyone who has necessarily said they "need" a cleaning service.  I don't "need" a cleaning service.  I hired one when my baby was 6 months old (or so), and it was the best thing ever.  Do I need it?  Nope.  Do I like it?  Yes.  Can I afford it?  Yes.  With a job, husband, and 2 kids - if I had extra time every day, or every week (no, I don't watch TV), I would spend it
1. sleeping (I don't get enough)
2. playing with my kids
3. exercising outdoors, because I don't get enough outdoor time or cardio, while I do get plenty of "incidental" exercise picking up toys, doing laundry and dishes and cooking, and carrying around a 22 lb toddler.

Pre-kid days, my husband and I would simply clean for 2 hours every Saturday  morning.  Toddler is at the age where he will not leave us alone for that long, so that arrangement is not possible.  So when my kids are awake, I am engaged with them.  When they are asleep, I am asleep.

This is the one glaring spot in my life that is not MMM approved. But part of MMM is figuring out what is important to you, and spending accordingly if you can afford it.

Albert

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1254
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1240 on: December 21, 2013, 10:47:04 AM »
But part of MMM is figuring out what is important to you, and spending accordingly if you can afford it.

That's how I've always understood it.

Jamesqf

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4050
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1241 on: December 21, 2013, 11:22:32 AM »
That equation applies to pretty much everything. If I have a project that needs to be done, and paying someone to do it would cost me less money than I would lose if I took time off my job to do it, I pay someone to do it.

I also factor in the enjoyment I get from doing it myself, and the aggravation of trying to explain what I want done to someone else.  For instance, I do lots of yard work &c myself because I enjoy doing it, even though I could use the time to do paying work.

Daleth

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1242 on: December 21, 2013, 01:51:11 PM »
That's irrelevant unless cleaning your house requires you to take unpaid leave from work. It doesn't.

Some of us have side gigs. Some of us work partly or exclusively at home. Even for those of us who don't, we may earn more by staying at work an hour later than we would if we left on time. Point being, every hour that you spend time on X is an hour that you don't spend time on Y. If you earn more in an hour of work than you would pay someone to do an hour of cleaning, and you're not short on work (i.e. you could work instead of cleaning), it makes no financial sense to do your own cleaning.

And that's just the financial argument. There's also what some other posters have noted--the fact that they would much rather spend their non-work time doing X (quality time with family or friends, catching up on sleep, etc.) than cleaning, and for them it's a great tradeoff. This forum isn't JUST about money, after all. It's about the POINT of money, which is to be independent and able to decide how to spend your time. If you enjoy cleaning (or yard work, etc.), no one's saying it's a bad idea to do it--that's how you want to spend your time, apparently, so more power to you.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 01:53:38 PM by Daleth »

Albert

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1254
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1243 on: December 21, 2013, 02:14:36 PM »
Actually I think the financial argument is somewhat flawed. Theoretically I make several times more than I'd have to pay someone to do the cleaning for me however I have a salaried position and I wouldn't be making any more money by staying at work few extra hours every week. I'm sure many if not most of you would be in a similar position.

I do my own cleaning because I live in a small apartment and my weekends aren't that busy anyway. 


Richard3

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 289
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1244 on: December 21, 2013, 02:16:28 PM »
Most of the people I worked with had cleaners (even the single guys) using exactly that logic of "I make lots of money and I'd rather use my free time to do something else". Well no ****, I'd rather use my free time to bang supermodels and climb mountains but that's not really an option.

The free time you use for cleaning is not the same free time you'd be using for other things. It's the dregs of the free time, the minutes that would be used for watching cat videos on YouTube or lying on the couch staring at the ceiling.

I clean as I go (wiping / tidying up after myself - it's really not that much effort) and devote an hour at weekends to vacuuming. My house is usually close to being date-clean. Sure, I don't make the same hourly rate cleaning my house as I do working but it's much easier and more flexible than working for money and it's different from working too which is nice.

Jamesqf

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4050
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1245 on: December 21, 2013, 08:01:48 PM »
The free time you use for cleaning is not the same free time you'd be using for other things. It's the dregs of the free time, the minutes that would be used for watching cat videos on YouTube or lying on the couch staring at the ceiling.

Yes, it is time I'd use for other things.  Though I personally don't watch cat videos (or anything else), I imagine those who do get enjoyment from doing so.  I might spend the time reading, working in the yard, playing wthh the dogs...  As for lying on the couch - or more often out under the shade trees - I've had many a productive thought that way.  Remember Newton and the apple?

Maigahane

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 967
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1246 on: December 21, 2013, 08:19:32 PM »
Not at work but on Facebook:

Tuesday- "My dog is sick and needs $1400 in tests. My vet won't take payments and I got denied for the Care Credit card so I can't pay for it"

Today- "Going to the bank today to see if they'll give us money to buy the house we're renting"

After the first post I already offered to help her figure out how to raise her credit (and was going to try to discretely point her towards better personal finance in general) but now in this conversation I have to figure out how to say "Of course you can't get a mortgage if you can't get approved for a $1400 credit card!" without sounding like a bitch. I know this stuff is not common sense to everyone but it still amazes me when stuff like this comes out.

eyePod

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 964
    • Flipping A Dollar
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1247 on: December 22, 2013, 06:53:05 AM »
Did not overhear,but talked about directly and this is really a new one.
I was talking with a co-worker where the topic of me selling my car came up.
Everybody just kept asking why I do not buy a new car,I did not need to explain but to humor them
I told them I take the bus as commute and they straight out called me cheap.
I said frugal-ness leads to richness.

Another associate countered with "frugality is just the sugarcoated word for cheap"

Well not another word from my choices will be shared to them after that.

This kind of shit PISSES ME OFF.  Co-workers go out to eat off site at least 2 times per week, and go to the cafeteria every other day.  I'll bring my lunch to the caf, but I'm not going to bring it out.  And they go to shitty places like Wendy's. 

Then when we hear we're laying off over 1000 people site-wide, they're freaking out.  Still not cancelling their trip to Disney (even though they have tons of credit card debt), and I literally had to explain how a severance package works and how much he would get.  They said they don't know how they would pay the bills if they got laid off even though he'd get about a year of severance pay.

And I'm cheap because I plan how to spend my money when I receive it and don't spend it prior to that.  Asshats.
I blog on items flipped for a profit on eBay:
Flipping A Dollar

I made 6.5k in profits in 2015!

Albert

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1254
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1248 on: December 22, 2013, 07:54:43 AM »

This kind of shit PISSES ME OFF.  Co-workers go out to eat off site at least 2 times per week, and go to the cafeteria every other day.  I'll bring my lunch to the caf, but I'm not going to bring it out.  And they go to shitty places like Wendy's. 

Seriously? You'd have to pay me extra to eat in a place like that…

Admittedly I eat in our canteen regularly, but when we go out to eat off-site we do so in a proper restaurant. If I count it correctly this year I went 7 times (including 3 on company money). One of the traditions I have instituted is to take out my lab technicians to a nice place for a lunch a week before Christmas. This year we went to an Argentine steak place. I paid 80 euros for all of us, but it's worth it to be a good boss from time to time :)

lbdance

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 89
  • Location: New Zealand
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1249 on: December 22, 2013, 11:00:59 AM »
Admittedly I eat in our canteen regularly, but when we go out to eat off-site we do so in a proper restaurant. If I count it correctly this year I went 7 times (including 3 on company money). One of the traditions I have instituted is to take out my lab technicians to a nice place for a lunch a week before Christmas. This year we went to an Argentine steak place. I paid 80 euros for all of us, but it's worth it to be a good boss from time to time :)

I like your mentality about being a good boss. I try to be the same. Be it occasionally buying staff a present on their anniversary with the company (one off for my right hand person at 3 years because I was about to move on and I thought she had been fantastic) or just sometimes a Christmas present again when someone has done a great job and I want to recognise it more than the company will.