Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 5507983 times)

iris lily

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1400 on: January 11, 2014, 11:33:26 AM »
I've got one, literally overheard as I was walking past an office: "We got paid two weeks early, so I'll run out of money two weeks early."

We get the same amount every month. It's true, last month we were paid in mid-December, but I can't imagine this coworker was unable to anticipate that there would be ~ four weeks in the month of January...
Argh -reminds me of a coworker who told me she talked her landlord into making her rent $100 a week instead of $400 a month, because it was too hard to get $400 in the bank.  I pointed out that that would end up costing her $400 a year and she looked at me like I had just taken a dump on her parade.

This is one of my favorites on this thread.

iris lily

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1401 on: January 11, 2014, 11:40:23 AM »
A favorite at multiple places where I've worked and over decades  has been this chesnut handed out by those who should know better : We get two "extra" paychecks a year.

Hunh? It took me some years to figure out what they were talking about and apparently it is this: those passing on the folk wisdom have household budgets based on a monthly cycle, so when our workplace issues 26 paychecks a year instead of twice-a-month, that counts as a windfall for them.

Since I don't budget and never have and  I don't think of my finances in terms of months, I could never relate to what they were talking about.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 11:48:48 AM by iris lily »

iris lily

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1402 on: January 11, 2014, 11:46:12 AM »
TWO people today "Yipee-d" about payday. One had to buy $100 flights tonight and could only afford it if the pay came through. Another said she had 63c in her account, and she was going to celebrate by going out to dinner tonight.

I know these are students.... But still.

Once I had an employee come into work on her day off, and sit and wait for 2 hours for me to hand out paychecks. She had hoped that I would go to our Business Office and plague them for her check early but I declined to do that. She was in a hurry to fly out that afternoon to Las Vegas. Should I mention that she lived in public housing?

ender

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1403 on: January 11, 2014, 12:13:15 PM »
Somehow it came up in a convo with coworkers that cars are expensive, but apparently $325 for a car payment (plus the not-calculated gas/maintenance/registration/insurance) means that a car isn't that expensive...

I was also talking the same day with a MMM inclined coworker and we were realizing even as non-married engineers with relatively cheap vehicles our car costs are still a ridiculous when you figure in even something like 30 cents/mile (instead of 55.5).

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1404 on: January 11, 2014, 12:54:19 PM »
A favorite at multiple places where I've worked and over decades  has been this chesnut handed out by those who should know better : We get two "extra" paychecks a year.

Hunh? It took me some years to figure out what they were talking about and apparently it is this: those passing on the folk wisdom have household budgets based on a monthly cycle, so when our workplace issues 26 paychecks a year instead of twice-a-month, that counts as a windfall for them.

Since I don't budget and never have and  I don't think of my finances in terms of months, I could never relate to what they were talking about.

I love my extra paychecks! Also in like 2016 I may get three extra paychecks (ie an extra paycheck for the year, although likely each paycheck will be less).

iris lily

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1405 on: January 11, 2014, 03:59:42 PM »
I love my extra paychecks! Also in like 2016 I may get three extra paychecks (ie an extra paycheck for the year, although likely each paycheck will be less).

So you are one of them! ok, sir, carry on and enjoy that extra money!


Vitai Slade

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1406 on: January 11, 2014, 05:58:24 PM »
Yes it's a concept that accurately describes this situation
No it doesn't. Computing ratios with zero denominators are meaningless, and infinity, which is used only for limits by people who understand what it actually means, brings no insight here, because there's no concept of motion or an asymptote. Saying it has increased infinitely is incorrect technically and still incorrect when used in a fuzzy handwave way.
X isn't approaching anything. X is zero.
Uh, yeah it does (in the fuzzy handwave way).  Technically, we are looking at:

(Odds of winning when buying one ticket) / (odds of winning when buying X tickets) = Ratio

Limit of Ratio as X approaches zero is infinity:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=limit+of+%28%281%2F175223510%29%2Fx%29+as+x+approaches+0

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with dragoncar on this one. If we are accounting for averages and chances of hitting, if they pulled numbers an infinite number of times, your chances of hitting are infinitely greater by buying one ticket, whereas if you had 0 tickets and they pulled an infinite number of times, your odds of hitting are still zero. This does not excuse the purchase of one ticket though because the odds of winning vs. the other investment options for that money lean heavily towards other investments as the optimal choice.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 05:59:57 PM by Vitai Slade »

Insanity

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1407 on: January 11, 2014, 06:20:45 PM »
Yes it's a concept that accurately describes this situation
No it doesn't. Computing ratios with zero denominators are meaningless, and infinity, which is used only for limits by people who understand what it actually means, brings no insight here, because there's no concept of motion or an asymptote. Saying it has increased infinitely is incorrect technically and still incorrect when used in a fuzzy handwave way.
X isn't approaching anything. X is zero.
Uh, yeah it does (in the fuzzy handwave way).  Technically, we are looking at:

(Odds of winning when buying one ticket) / (odds of winning when buying X tickets) = Ratio

Limit of Ratio as X approaches zero is infinity:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=limit+of+%28%281%2F175223510%29%2Fx%29+as+x+approaches+0

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with dragoncar on this one. If we are accounting for averages and chances of hitting, if they pulled numbers an infinite number of times, your chances of hitting are infinitely greater by buying one ticket, whereas if you had 0 tickets and they pulled an infinite number of times, your odds of hitting are still zero. This does not excuse the purchase of one ticket though because the odds of winning vs. the other investment options for that money lean heavily towards other investments as the optimal choice.

are we talking winning the big one or winning anything?  Cause I can hit the power ball/mega ball and still win something and those odds are a lot higher than infinite. Not that it means I come out ahead mind you :)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1408 on: January 11, 2014, 06:39:18 PM »
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with dragoncar on this one. If we are accounting for averages and chances of hitting, if they pulled numbers an infinite number of times, your chances of hitting are infinitely greater by buying one ticket, whereas if you had 0 tickets and they pulled an infinite number of times, your odds of hitting are still zero. This does not excuse the purchase of one ticket though because the odds of winning vs. the other investment options for that money lean heavily towards other investments as the optimal choice.
You cannot divide by zero. Your comparison presupposes that something divided by zero is "infinity", which is not a number. Something divided by zero is undefined.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1409 on: January 11, 2014, 08:34:43 PM »
I love my extra paychecks! Also in like 2016 I may get three extra paychecks (ie an extra paycheck for the year, although likely each paycheck will be less).

So you are one of them! ok, sir, carry on and enjoy that extra money!



I makes a difference when you pay monthly bills. I will get 3 pay checks this month. That means I will end up with almost +1000 more by the end of the month. Granted I am saving it all, but it still makes a difference.
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Jamesqf

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1410 on: January 11, 2014, 09:49:21 PM »
You cannot divide by zero. Your comparison presupposes that something divided by zero is "infinity", which is not a number. Something divided by zero is undefined.

Perhaps, but the concept is still quite useful.  (And you can have different kinds of infinities, some of which are larger than others: I understand there's a seminar on this being held at Hilbert's Hotel :-))

I think the real problem here is in trying to take a limit as N -> 0, when N is integer.

Vitai Slade

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1411 on: January 12, 2014, 04:29:13 AM »
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with dragoncar on this one. If we are accounting for averages and chances of hitting, if they pulled numbers an infinite number of times, your chances of hitting are infinitely greater by buying one ticket, whereas if you had 0 tickets and they pulled an infinite number of times, your odds of hitting are still zero. This does not excuse the purchase of one ticket though because the odds of winning vs. the other investment options for that money lean heavily towards other investments as the optimal choice.
You cannot divide by zero. Your comparison presupposes that something divided by zero is "infinity", which is not a number. Something divided by zero is undefined.

You keep spouting off that anything divided by zero is 'undefined' - yet this is only mathematical theory. The only reason that it is 'undefined' is because mathematicians have not figured out a way to do it yet. But that's fine. Let's play your game. Instead, we'll invert it and MULTIPLY by zero and I'll even give you an example easy enough for a fourth grader to understand.

You have zero lottery tickets. They decide they are going to pull numbers until you hit (This is the multiply by zero part). What is your chance of eventually winning?

Answer: 0%

Now you have one lottery ticket. They decide they are going to pull numbers until you hit. What is you chance of eventually winning?

Answer: 100%

The thing of it is, the difference between zero and one on a number line is infinite. You can divide it up as many times as you want and there is still going to be a number between whichever two numbers you divided. This means that because zero will always stay a constant zero and one is infinitely higher than zero, your chances of hitting are infinitely larger if you have one ticket vs. zero.

[/argument]


Albert

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1412 on: January 12, 2014, 04:37:47 AM »
I makes a difference when you pay monthly bills. I will get 3 pay checks this month. That means I will end up with almost +1000 more by the end of the month. Granted I am saving it all, but it still makes a difference.

Why does it matter in how many instalments you divide your yearly income? Unless you are saving nothing it shouldn't matter much. Perhaps some small differences in taxes depending on where you live.

Gray Matter

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1413 on: January 12, 2014, 05:33:06 AM »
Why does it matter in how many instalments you divide your yearly income? Unless you are saving nothing it shouldn't matter much. Perhaps some small differences in taxes depending on where you live.

If your spending/budget is based solely on "spend as little as possible," then it doesn't matter.  But if your spending/budget is influenced at all by your income, then it can make a huge difference, because your budget would be based on a smaller number and then these checks would seem like a "bonus" that you could either save or do something substantial with.

Even if your spending isn't influenced by it, there is the psychological impact of getting something that seems "extra" even though you've earned it and it was yours all along.  And I'm just speculating here, but let's say you had that salary spread out among all your checks and you saved the same amount each month, the impact of seeing your savings grow little by little may not be as exciting as seeing it take two big leaps in the year.

So...from a pure practical perspective, it doesn't/shouldn't matter.  But from an emotional perspective, it does/could.

eyePod

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1414 on: January 12, 2014, 07:23:43 AM »
Yes it's a concept that accurately describes this situation
No it doesn't. Computing ratios with zero denominators are meaningless, and infinity, which is used only for limits by people who understand what it actually means, brings no insight here, because there's no concept of motion or an asymptote. Saying it has increased infinitely is incorrect technically and still incorrect when used in a fuzzy handwave way.

Can't say I agree with you.  His odds of winning increased infinitely.
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I.P. Daley

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1415 on: January 12, 2014, 08:15:29 AM »
Yes it's a concept that accurately describes this situation
No it doesn't. Computing ratios with zero denominators are meaningless, and infinity, which is used only for limits by people who understand what it actually means, brings no insight here, because there's no concept of motion or an asymptote. Saying it has increased infinitely is incorrect technically and still incorrect when used in a fuzzy handwave way.

Can't say I agree with you.  His odds of winning increased infinitely.

I think what Grant is trying to say (and I agree with him here), is that infinite is the wrong word to use. The appropriate thing to say in this situation is, "His odds of winning increased finitely." The statistical odds of winning are now measurable and greater than zero, but still so quantitatively minute, they might as well still be represented by the pure absence of quantity as opposed to the boundlessness of the infinite.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 08:33:39 AM by I.P. Daley »
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eyePod

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1416 on: January 12, 2014, 08:40:06 AM »
Why does it matter in how many instalments you divide your yearly income? Unless you are saving nothing it shouldn't matter much. Perhaps some small differences in taxes depending on where you live.

If your spending/budget is based solely on "spend as little as possible," then it doesn't matter.  But if your spending/budget is influenced at all by your income, then it can make a huge difference, because your budget would be based on a smaller number and then these checks would seem like a "bonus" that you could either save or do something substantial with.

Even if your spending isn't influenced by it, there is the psychological impact of getting something that seems "extra" even though you've earned it and it was yours all along.  And I'm just speculating here, but let's say you had that salary spread out among all your checks and you saved the same amount each month, the impact of seeing your savings grow little by little may not be as exciting as seeing it take two big leaps in the year.

So...from a pure practical perspective, it doesn't/shouldn't matter.  But from an emotional perspective, it does/could.

As someone who budgets each paycheck as it comes in and gets paid biweekly, 10 out of the 12 months I get 2 paychecks.  I use these two paychecks to budget my monthly expenses for the upcoming month and then bank the rest.  In the 2 months that I get extra pay checks, I get to save more.  I'm not sure why it's confusing for someone to see why people enjoy this.  You're conveniently ignoring monthly bills.
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Vitai Slade

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1417 on: January 12, 2014, 08:43:10 AM »
Yes it's a concept that accurately describes this situation
No it doesn't. Computing ratios with zero denominators are meaningless, and infinity, which is used only for limits by people who understand what it actually means, brings no insight here, because there's no concept of motion or an asymptote. Saying it has increased infinitely is incorrect technically and still incorrect when used in a fuzzy handwave way.

Can't say I agree with you.  His odds of winning increased infinitely.

I think what Grant is trying to say (and I agree with him here), is that infinite is the wrong word to use. The appropriate thing to say in this situation is, "His odds of winning increased finitely." The statistical odds of winning are now measurable and greater than zero, but still so quantitatively minute, they might as well still be represented by the pure absence of quantity as opposed to the boundlessness of the infinite.

Except it's not finite. It is immeasurable. You cannot measure the difference between zero and one in this scenario because one is infinitely larger than zero. Therefore, infinite IS the correct term to use, not finite.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 08:45:21 AM by Vitai Slade »

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1418 on: January 12, 2014, 08:50:01 AM »
I love my extra paychecks! Also in like 2016 I may get three extra paychecks (ie an extra paycheck for the year, although likely each paycheck will be less).

So you are one of them! ok, sir, carry on and enjoy that extra money!



And I'm another one!  Budget based on a 4 week month.  Extra checks are stashed.  dragoncar . . . I don't have a 2016 calendar handy (and I'm lazy, slow on the uptake) . . . what happens in 2016?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1419 on: January 12, 2014, 09:04:50 AM »
Re: The extra paycheck...

If people spend what they get (or more), an extra paycheck in a month makes no difference, because they live paycheck to paycheck.

If people have become disciplined enough to do a monthly budget that's based upon a typical month's budget, then the two extra paychecks are just that, extra money beyond the normal budgeted needs.

If people have become disciplined enough to totally control their spending, they are no longer extra paychecks, they're just part of the plan.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1420 on: January 12, 2014, 09:23:04 AM »
Except it's not finite. It is immeasurable. You cannot measure the difference between zero and one in this scenario because one is infinitely larger than zero. Therefore, infinite IS the correct term to use, not finite.

And if the odds of winning the $200 million powerball jackpot were 1:1, I might consider agreeing with you. The issue with your approach is that one is still a finite number. The gap between nothing and one is still only one, not infinity, and there are measurable statistical odds of winning.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1421 on: January 12, 2014, 09:33:37 AM »
Can't say I agree with you.  His odds of winning increased infinitely.
You're entitled to that opinion or any other that you like, but nobody arguing your side in this whole thread has been able to point to a single valid mathematical concept that supports the notion. The only place where infinity is somewhat relevant is limits, and there's no limit being taken or considered here. We're not considering the odds of winning with one ticket against the odds of winning with smaller and smaller fractions of a single ticket, we're considering the odds of winning with one ticket against the odds of winning with zero tickets. There's no limit.

Miamoo

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1422 on: January 12, 2014, 09:44:09 AM »
Gray Matter said . . . .

"Even if your spending isn't influenced by it, there is the psychological impact of getting something that seems "extra" even though you've earned it and it was yours all along.  And I'm just speculating here, but let's say you had that salary spread out among all your checks and you saved the same amount each month, the impact of seeing your savings grow little by little may not be as exciting as seeing it take two big leaps in the year.

So...from a pure practical perspective, it doesn't/shouldn't matter. But from an emotional perspective, it does/could."

Guess I'm still in that camp.  4 week monthly budget includes all living expenses, savings and investments  Re: The emotional perspective, I still think of it as a treat of sorts.  Yes, I get all happy when I can add that $ to the stash.




iris lily

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1423 on: January 12, 2014, 10:09:39 AM »
...If people have become disciplined enough to totally control their spending, they are no longer extra paychecks, they're just part of the plan.

Yes.

To repeat: I've never budgeted. I spend on what I want. And I don't want much, relatively speaking 'though for sure I've got gazingus pins (iris, lilies, dogs, wine.)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 10:13:14 AM by iris lily »

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1424 on: January 12, 2014, 12:09:56 PM »
You have zero lottery tickets. They decide they are going to pull numbers until you hit (This is the multiply by zero part). What is your chance of eventually winning?

Answer: 0%

Now you have one lottery ticket. They decide they are going to pull numbers until you hit. What is you chance of eventually winning?

Answer: 100%

The thing of it is, the difference between zero and one on a number line is infinite. You can divide it up as many times as you want and there is still going to be a number between whichever two numbers you divided. This means that because zero will always stay a constant zero and one is infinitely higher than zero, your chances of hitting are infinitely larger if you have one ticket vs. zero.

[/ false argument]

The problem here is that you've created an example that is not numeric, but binary logic, so that the concept of infinity (or indeed, of percentages) simply does no apply.  The only possibilities are true|false.

Albert

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1425 on: January 12, 2014, 03:17:32 PM »
I don't budget in great detail maybe that's why it doesn't matter to me that much how in how many pay checks is my income divided. I'm paid once a month and I know that statistically I save about 50% (yearly average) after buying whatever I want/need to buy. That's good enough for me.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1426 on: January 12, 2014, 04:04:15 PM »
Gray Matter said . . . .

"Even if your spending isn't influenced by it, there is the psychological impact of getting something that seems "extra" even though you've earned it and it was yours all along.  And I'm just speculating here, but let's say you had that salary spread out among all your checks and you saved the same amount each month, the impact of seeing your savings grow little by little may not be as exciting as seeing it take two big leaps in the year.

So...from a pure practical perspective, it doesn't/shouldn't matter. But from an emotional perspective, it does/could."

Guess I'm still in that camp.  4 week monthly budget includes all living expenses, savings and investments  Re: The emotional perspective, I still think of it as a treat of sorts.  Yes, I get all happy when I can add that $ to the stash.

It's similar to teachers who have their pay checks distributed though the year instead of only when they work.  If people have forsight and plane ahead, it doesn't matter, but some people don't have the ability to, and they'll need a consistent amount coming in. 

I never use the 'budgeting' option for my electric bill, which varies widely in winter vs summer (or it hopefully used to, I love the attic being properly sealed!).  I always had some extra 'slush' in my spending that I DIDN'T spend right up to what I made each month, so it was never an issue, even when I had a $600 electric bill one month last year.  That puts me in the camp with albert above, but that's only one way of handling money.

Some people spend every dollar they make.. Some of them are mustachian (spending it on debt repayment, or toward a specific future budget goal, into an investment account, etc...).  Other people don't budget' at all, just evaluate purchases as they come up, and at the end of the month sweep whatever is left (minus a buffer) into their investment/debt repayment.   

I personally am to lazy to do a 'month by month budget for every dollar'.  So I look at last year, make any adjustments based on changes (things going up, things being dropped, etc) and average it out per month, and expect to pay somewhere around that much.  Other people do say 'I'll have a sewer bill for X and a water bill for Y ever third month, and mobile bill of Z' etc...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1427 on: January 12, 2014, 05:20:50 PM »
Regarding "extra" paychecks - I get them twice a year(including this month - yay!) and like them a lot due to the way I keep records. I keep a monthly financial accounting/retirement journal, and it's just kind of cool to see a big spike in net worth. It also gives me a funny looking income graph on Mint, which in addition to other random income, makes my monthly income look wildly unstable to an outsider, and I find that kind of entertaining.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1428 on: January 12, 2014, 06:19:07 PM »
I love my extra paychecks! Also in like 2016 I may get three extra paychecks (ie an extra paycheck for the year, although likely each paycheck will be less).

So you are one of them! ok, sir, carry on and enjoy that extra money!



And I'm another one!  Budget based on a 4 week month.  Extra checks are stashed.  dragoncar . . . I don't have a 2016 calendar handy (and I'm lazy, slow on the uptake) . . . what happens in 2016?

Everyone who gets paid biweekly will eventually get a year with 27 pay periods.  Which year that happens depends on your individual schedule.  I've heard anecdotally that some companies just eat the extra paycheck rather than go to the trouble of mitigating it (paying less per paycheck or skipping a paycheck) although I find that hard to believe.

Edit: in some cases mitigation wouldn't make sense because you are being paid at the end of two weeks for two weeks worked.  So to could depend on whether your employment agreement is for an annual salary, a biweekly salary, etc.  luckily this happens rarely.  every 7 year I want to say?

Double edit: my memory sucks it's ever 11 years:
http://www.worldatwork.org/community/discussions/discuss.jsp?did=3587
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 06:23:12 PM by dragoncar »

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1429 on: January 12, 2014, 06:22:31 PM »
I've heard companies mention a longer number of weeks in a quarter on a conference call to explain earnings anomalies before. I don't know how much to buy into it and how much it's just a convenient excuse, though.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1430 on: January 12, 2014, 06:35:14 PM »
I don't budget in great detail maybe that's why it doesn't matter to me that much how in how many pay checks is my income divided. I'm paid once a month and I know that statistically I save about 50% (yearly average) after buying whatever I want/need to buy. That's good enough for me.

I used to be in the same boat but then we switched to bi-weekly which created 2 months where I had to "deal" with the "extra" $$.  On average, I'd be getting the same per month, but in reality, 10 out of the 12 months were less.  It doesn't matter since we saving every month, but it does matter to the people who are living paycheck to paycheck.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1431 on: January 12, 2014, 06:37:29 PM »
Some people spend every dollar they make..

I guess this is where my wife and I are.  We don't spend every dollar but we do budget every dollar (down to the penny).  That way, we really know where our money is going.  We're much earlier on the age/money curve though, and I can only assume it won't be as important when we have a bigger nest egg/reduce our spending even more!
I blog on items flipped for a profit on eBay:
Flipping A Dollar

I made 6.5k in profits in 2015!

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1432 on: January 12, 2014, 06:54:00 PM »
Yes it's a concept that accurately describes this situation
No it doesn't. Computing ratios with zero denominators are meaningless, and infinity, which is used only for limits by people who understand what it actually means, brings no insight here, because there's no concept of motion or an asymptote. Saying it has increased infinitely is incorrect technically and still incorrect when used in a fuzzy handwave way.

Can't say I agree with you.  His odds of winning increased infinitely.

I think what Grant is trying to say (and I agree with him here), is that infinite is the wrong word to use. The appropriate thing to say in this situation is, "His odds of winning increased finitely." The statistical odds of winning are now measurable and greater than zero, but still so quantitatively minute, they might as well still be represented by the pure absence of quantity as opposed to the boundlessness of the infinite.

How many fucks I give that a phrase many people here seem to understand intuitively may be mathematically undefined = limit of 1/x as x->infinity.

jrhampt

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1433 on: January 13, 2014, 06:48:42 AM »
I love my extra paychecks! Also in like 2016 I may get three extra paychecks (ie an extra paycheck for the year, although likely each paycheck will be less).

So you are one of them! ok, sir, carry on and enjoy that extra money!



And I'm another one!  Budget based on a 4 week month.  Extra checks are stashed.  dragoncar . . . I don't have a 2016 calendar handy (and I'm lazy, slow on the uptake) . . . what happens in 2016?

Everyone who gets paid biweekly will eventually get a year with 27 pay periods.  Which year that happens depends on your individual schedule.  I've heard anecdotally that some companies just eat the extra paycheck rather than go to the trouble of mitigating it (paying less per paycheck or skipping a paycheck) although I find that hard to believe.

Edit: in some cases mitigation wouldn't make sense because you are being paid at the end of two weeks for two weeks worked.  So to could depend on whether your employment agreement is for an annual salary, a biweekly salary, etc.  luckily this happens rarely.  every 7 year I want to say?

Double edit: my memory sucks it's ever 11 years:
http://www.worldatwork.org/community/discussions/discuss.jsp?did=3587

We're having one of these 27 paycheck years at my company.  What they did is to divide our annual salary by 27 instead of 26, so our paychecks are lower than they were last year.  They are giving us 2 extra vacation days to placate some of the people who are unhappy about this.  I have never run into this situation before, so it's all new to me.

Fireman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1434 on: January 13, 2014, 07:52:06 AM »
I'm interested in the 27 paycheck phenomenon (never thought about it really) so I ran my calendar out several years.  Turns out in 2021, if i'm still working for this department, i'll get three paychecks in January, July, and December.  I'm used to two 'extra' checks a year here.  You get paid as you otherwise would but health insurance benefits and one of the retirements aren't paid out.  Additionally, leave isn't accrued on the extra paychecks.  Since i'm a non exempt employee and work variable hours, these paychecks are extra to me even though I plan for them in my income/expenditures spreadsheet.

Half-Borg

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1435 on: January 13, 2014, 08:01:13 AM »
Back to topic:
A co-worker of mine is looking for a new dinig table. He went to furniture store and described some of the features the table must have and the employee pointed him to some 400 table including chairs.
He said he wanted a grown-up table, told the employee to leave and decided to buy a 3000 one.
3000 for a freaking table? Something a 12 year old can build all by himself?

johlstei

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1436 on: January 13, 2014, 11:55:05 AM »
You have zero lottery tickets. They decide they are going to pull numbers until you hit (This is the multiply by zero part). What is your chance of eventually winning?

Answer: 0%

Now you have one lottery ticket. They decide they are going to pull numbers until you hit. What is you chance of eventually winning?

Answer: 100%

The thing of it is, the difference between zero and one on a number line is infinite. You can divide it up as many times as you want and there is still going to be a number between whichever two numbers you divided. This means that because zero will always stay a constant zero and one is infinitely higher than zero, your chances of hitting are infinitely larger if you have one ticket vs. zero.

[/ false argument]

The problem here is that you've created an example that is not numeric, but binary logic, so that the concept of infinity (or indeed, of percentages) simply does no apply.  The only possibilities are true|false.
This is a dumb argument to have and none of us should be having it. So here are my thoughts on the matter! (Sorry...)

Probabilities relating to events occurring in the physical world can never truly be 0 (or 1). In this particular example, one is excluding that one might be gifted a lottery ticket, or find one on the ground, or sleepwalk and buy one without realizing it. These are all rare events but that doesn't matter at all, they make the probability nonzero. There, now we don't have to have an argument over how appropriate the colloquial use of the word infinite was in that one context(hint: this was the only thing y'all disagreed on, nothing is gained by determining who is right).

If you think the probabilities not being 0 thing is interesting you can read a more full, thoughtful explanation here:
http://lesswrong.com/lw/mp/0_and_1_are_not_probabilities/

Jamesqf

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1437 on: January 13, 2014, 12:10:34 PM »
Probabilities relating to events occurring in the physical world can never truly be 0 (or 1). In this particular example, one is excluding that one might be gifted a lottery ticket, or find one on the ground, or sleepwalk and buy one without realizing it.

On the contrary, in the physical world the fact that any given lottery ticket either is or is not a winner is perfect binary logic.  How you obtained it is irrelevant.

the fixer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1438 on: January 13, 2014, 12:11:28 PM »
The real problem IMO is it's a misleading and illogical use of math to prove a point. "1 is infinitely larger than 0" is a statement that considers only the percentage difference between two numbers, but it's ignoring the absolute difference (1 - 0 = 1), the denominator (you're actually looking at 0 versus 1 in a very-large-number), and whether the difference is statistically significant. It's cherry-picking only the pieces of math that support your conclusion.

I can use the same math to make equally stupid arguments. For instance, driving your car is stupid for all of the following reasons:
  • You might get in an accident when you drive your car. No, I'm not going to consider the actual odds and probability of damage/injury, I'm just going to say that the odds are infinitely higher of getting into an accident if you drive versus if you do not.
  • If you're walking, you're going to see money left on the ground but when you're driving you'd never see it. So you have an infinitely higher probability of finding a $100 bill on the ground if you walk to where you're going versus if you drive. You even have an infinitely higher probability of finding a briefcase containing 1 MILLION DOLLARS!

exranger06

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1439 on: January 13, 2014, 01:09:59 PM »
To those of you still arguing about the lottery ticket: This is how I feel when I read one of your posts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FYTc55nGEI

Can we please drop it and get back on topic??

Insanity

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1440 on: January 13, 2014, 01:15:52 PM »
To those of you still arguing about the lottery ticket: This is how I feel when I read one of your posts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FYTc55nGEI

Can we please drop it and get back on topic??

http://xkcd.com/386/

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1441 on: January 13, 2014, 01:32:17 PM »
To those of you still arguing about the lottery ticket: This is how I feel when I read one of your posts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FYTc55nGEI
You don't have to read the thread.

Recon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1442 on: January 13, 2014, 01:48:16 PM »
To those of you still arguing about the lottery ticket: This is how I feel when I read one of your posts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FYTc55nGEI
You don't have to read the thread.

Yeah, but it's annoying coming into this thread - which, IMO, is one of the best on the forum - and seeing that it's cluttered up with a bunch of people arguing about something that is completely unrelated (statement of fact) and largely irrelevant (statement of opinion.)

Russ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1443 on: January 13, 2014, 02:16:34 PM »
To those of you complaining about those arguing about the lottery ticket:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/10/07/how-big-is-your-circle-of-control/
;-)

Insanity

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1444 on: January 13, 2014, 02:21:55 PM »
To those of you complaining about those arguing about the lottery ticket:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/10/07/how-big-is-your-circle-of-control/
;-)

But aren't we supposed to help people get rid of clutter by spreading the word?  Isn't it hypocritical if we can't keep our own message board threads clutter free????

</sarcasm>

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1445 on: January 13, 2014, 02:25:59 PM »
To those of you still arguing about the lottery ticket: This is how I feel when I read one of your posts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FYTc55nGEI
You don't have to read the thread.

Yeah, but it's annoying coming into this thread - which, IMO, is one of the best on the forum - and seeing that it's cluttered up with a bunch of people arguing about something that is completely unrelated (statement of fact) and largely irrelevant (statement of opinion.)

Yeah we never go off topic in this thread.  Want to start a side thread for lotto maths?

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1446 on: January 13, 2014, 02:33:14 PM »
I think everybody is pretty argued out. But it's not like there's a strict stay on topic policy in this forum, which is 1) broad by nature anyways, and 2) crawling with quantitative types.

msilenus

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1447 on: January 13, 2014, 02:50:45 PM »
I think everybody is pretty argued out. But it's not like there's a strict stay on topic policy in this forum, which is 1) broad by nature anyways, and 2) crawling with quantitative types.

I'm curious what the data is supporting your second claim.

fantabulous

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1448 on: January 13, 2014, 03:14:28 PM »
Back to topic:
A co-worker of mine is looking for a new dinig table. He went to furniture store and described some of the features the table must have and the employee pointed him to some 400 table including chairs.
He said he wanted a grown-up table, told the employee to leave and decided to buy a 3000 one.
3000 for a freaking table? Something a 12 year old can build all by himself?

As a child, I never thought to make my own table during Thanksgiving to not have to sit at the kids table. If I ever become a mother, I think I'll set out an unassembled table for the kids. Aside from dimensions, what makes a table a grown-up table?

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1449 on: January 13, 2014, 03:22:35 PM »
Back to topic:
A co-worker of mine is looking for a new dinig table. He went to furniture store and described some of the features the table must have and the employee pointed him to some 400 table including chairs.
He said he wanted a grown-up table, told the employee to leave and decided to buy a 3000 one.
3000 for a freaking table? Something a 12 year old can build all by himself?

As a child, I never thought to make my own table during Thanksgiving to not have to sit at the kids table. If I ever become a mother, I think I'll set out an unassembled table for the kids. Aside from dimensions, what makes a table a grown-up table?

Yeah, I'm not even sure how I would describe "features my dining table must have." Uhh... a flat surface large enough for several people to eat from? Four legs? Perhaps you want a specific shape, but what other kind of "features" do tables have?