Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 4929488 times)

acroy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5500 on: November 21, 2014, 03:17:51 PM »
At work:
We frequently get catered in lunches
There are frequently leftovers
In an office of 10 people, making 35-100k per year (big range) there are seldom takers. "Bleh, don't want for dinner what I had for lunch"

It'd go to waste if I didn't take it ;) family of 7 = it'll be et.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5501 on: November 21, 2014, 03:25:56 PM »
Not actually antimustachian, but funny:

I work at a University which had a $14 mil. budget shortfall this year (thanks, legislators, for deciding tax breaks for oil companies were more worthwhile than funding education!) and they're projecting the same next year.  So they're looking at programs to scale back on or cut outright, and the list came out the other day.  I was sitting in a meeting discussing it and someone pointed out that mathematics is on the list.  The person leading the meeting said, "Well, there's the B.A. and M.A., and the B.S. and M.S.  So if the B.A. goes away, that doesn't mean the B.S. will go away."  All I could think was, "That is the truest statement I have ever heard about the U."  Couldn't help snorting with laughter and then everyone looks at me, pauses...round of giggles around the table.

I need an explanation. I think B.A. means Business Analyst, but the M.A. throws me off, therefore, I have no idea what the rest of it means.

BA = Bachelor of Arts MA = Master of Arts BS = depending on context could be Bachelor of Science or Bullshit

I almost thought as much, but what does a BA and MA have to do with math?
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RysChristensen

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5502 on: November 21, 2014, 03:37:08 PM »

I drive a wrangler and I actually think that's really funny. I know, I know - face punches for driving a Wrangler.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5503 on: November 21, 2014, 03:41:52 PM »
We often have pot luck lunches on Mondays or Tuesdays at my job.  People often eat the leftovers the next day.  By the third day, however, most people aren't interested in the leftovers anymore.  That's great for me, because they end up buying me lunch for the rest of the week.  I probably could have brought leftovers home for dinner tonight, too.  Dang, I should have thought of that!
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5504 on: November 21, 2014, 03:55:07 PM »
Not actually antimustachian, but funny:

I work at a University which had a $14 mil. budget shortfall this year (thanks, legislators, for deciding tax breaks for oil companies were more worthwhile than funding education!) and they're projecting the same next year.  So they're looking at programs to scale back on or cut outright, and the list came out the other day.  I was sitting in a meeting discussing it and someone pointed out that mathematics is on the list.  The person leading the meeting said, "Well, there's the B.A. and M.A., and the B.S. and M.S.  So if the B.A. goes away, that doesn't mean the B.S. will go away."  All I could think was, "That is the truest statement I have ever heard about the U."  Couldn't help snorting with laughter and then everyone looks at me, pauses...round of giggles around the table.

I need an explanation. I think B.A. means Business Analyst, but the M.A. throws me off, therefore, I have no idea what the rest of it means.

BA = Bachelor of Arts MA = Master of Arts BS = depending on context could be Bachelor of Science or Bullshit

I almost thought as much, but what does a BA and MA have to do with math?
IANAA (I Am Not An Academic)

Depending on the school you can often get a B.A. or M.A. in mathematics.  The difference between a BA and a BS has more to do with the approach and the sum of all the classes you take than anything else.

You can also argue that it is/is almost a distinction without a difference in many cases.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5505 on: November 21, 2014, 04:38:44 PM »
Not actually antimustachian, but funny:

I work at a University which had a $14 mil. budget shortfall this year (thanks, legislators, for deciding tax breaks for oil companies were more worthwhile than funding education!) and they're projecting the same next year.  So they're looking at programs to scale back on or cut outright, and the list came out the other day.  I was sitting in a meeting discussing it and someone pointed out that mathematics is on the list.  The person leading the meeting said, "Well, there's the B.A. and M.A., and the B.S. and M.S.  So if the B.A. goes away, that doesn't mean the B.S. will go away."  All I could think was, "That is the truest statement I have ever heard about the U."  Couldn't help snorting with laughter and then everyone looks at me, pauses...round of giggles around the table.

I need an explanation. I think B.A. means Business Analyst, but the M.A. throws me off, therefore, I have no idea what the rest of it means.

BA = Bachelor of Arts MA = Master of Arts BS = depending on context could be Bachelor of Science or Bullshit

I almost thought as much, but what does a BA and MA have to do with math?

BA in mathematics, MA in mathematics.  They're the specific degrees people can get.  There are slightly different requirements for the BA in math rather than the BS in math.  Engineers and computer science majors frequently get either a minor or a second major in math because it's only an extra class or two beyond their normal requirements.  (Comp sci functionally requires a math minor, actually.)  However, one group tends to get the BA (comp sci, I think) since that's more closely in line with their main degree, and the other group tends to get the BS (and we're a huge engineering school).  So the BA has a lower graduation rate and they're considering doing away with that degree entirely, while still keeping the BS in math so that we still have a degree in mathematics.  Same with the MA/MS.

TL;DR: the funny part of that story was the acronym, not which degree they're considering chopping.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5506 on: November 21, 2014, 05:07:10 PM »
Not actually antimustachian, but funny:

I work at a University which had a $14 mil. budget shortfall this year (thanks, legislators, for deciding tax breaks for oil companies were more worthwhile than funding education!) and they're projecting the same next year.  So they're looking at programs to scale back on or cut outright, and the list came out the other day.  I was sitting in a meeting discussing it and someone pointed out that mathematics is on the list.  The person leading the meeting said, "Well, there's the B.A. and M.A., and the B.S. and M.S.  So if the B.A. goes away, that doesn't mean the B.S. will go away."  All I could think was, "That is the truest statement I have ever heard about the U."  Couldn't help snorting with laughter and then everyone looks at me, pauses...round of giggles around the table.

I need an explanation. I think B.A. means Business Analyst, but the M.A. throws me off, therefore, I have no idea what the rest of it means.

BA = Bachelor of Arts MA = Master of Arts BS = depending on context could be Bachelor of Science or Bullshit

I almost thought as much, but what does a BA and MA have to do with math?

BA in mathematics, MA in mathematics.  They're the specific degrees people can get.  There are slightly different requirements for the BA in math rather than the BS in math.  Engineers and computer science majors frequently get either a minor or a second major in math because it's only an extra class or two beyond their normal requirements.  (Comp sci functionally requires a math minor, actually.)  However, one group tends to get the BA (comp sci, I think) since that's more closely in line with their main degree, and the other group tends to get the BS (and we're a huge engineering school).  So the BA has a lower graduation rate and they're considering doing away with that degree entirely, while still keeping the BS in math so that we still have a degree in mathematics.  Same with the MA/MS.

TL;DR: the funny part of that story was the acronym, not which degree they're considering chopping.

I got the comedy of it all, but had no idea that math was considered "the Arts". It's kind of a science-ey thing.And by science-ey, I mean...not art.

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BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5507 on: November 21, 2014, 05:25:07 PM »
A grown adult man that I work with brings a lunchable to work for lunch.

Another man had gushers fruit snacks this week.

A lunchable, as in one?  So many things wrong with that...


Yes, just one. That's his whole lunch for an 8+ hour shift.

Gushers man has a Campbell's microwavable soup every day. Better than eating out but still expensive. I kindly inquired if he had a crock pot and suggested he make the same soup (beef vegetables) when he complained Campbell's was expensive. Hasn't happened yet. Maybe I'll give him a recipe if it comes up again.

Do you work with my Husband? His "we don't have any leftover's" backup is a can of Campbells- $1-1.25 a can not too bad for lunch Add a piece of fruit and a yogurt and we are all good.
I usually add a can of black beans to any canned soup.  That way the soup lasts for two meals and has half the salt and is about half the price.   plus it tastes really good. 
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gimp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5508 on: November 21, 2014, 05:30:27 PM »
We think STEM, but traditionally math was separate. I suspect largely because there was a big divide between math and applied math, by which I mean math was theory, and theory was not considered a science. Or something. These days almost nobody does pure math anymore, there's hardly any money in writing proofs unless you get tenure. It's weird. A lot of universities have, for example, a college of science and art, a  college of engineering, a college of business... science and art don't really belong together any more than math and art does, as far as categorizing education goes. Whatever.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5509 on: November 21, 2014, 05:31:33 PM »

I got the comedy of it all, but had no idea that math was considered "the Arts". It's kind of a science-ey thing.And by science-ey, I mean...not art.

Classically, I believe math was typically considered more art than science.  And there are a lot of correlations.  Take music, which can be thought of as math made into sound.  Art has a lot of mathematical explanations for why it's pleasing to our eyes, ratios and whatnot.  I would say that it bridges the gap between art and science quite well.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5510 on: November 21, 2014, 05:35:05 PM »
A grown adult man that I work with brings a lunchable to work for lunch.

Another man had gushers fruit snacks this week.

A lunchable, as in one?  So many things wrong with that...


Yes, just one. That's his whole lunch for an 8+ hour shift.

Gushers man has a Campbell's microwavable soup every day. Better than eating out but still expensive. I kindly inquired if he had a crock pot and suggested he make the same soup (beef vegetables) when he complained Campbell's was expensive. Hasn't happened yet. Maybe I'll give him a recipe if it comes up again.

Do you work with my Husband? His "we don't have any leftover's" backup is a can of Campbells- $1-1.25 a can not too bad for lunch Add a piece of fruit and a yogurt and we are all good.
I usually add a can of black beans to any canned soup.  That way the soup lasts for two meals and has half the salt and is about half the price.   plus it tastes really good.

That is a very good idea.  I missed it in the first post-Husband does not buy the prepackaged microwavable soups, He has a vented mug that holds one can. He keeps the mug in his desk drawer and I am not sure I want to see it,if it looks anything like his work coffee cup.

FIPurpose

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5511 on: November 21, 2014, 06:00:10 PM »

I got the comedy of it all, but had no idea that math was considered "the Arts". It's kind of a science-ey thing.And by science-ey, I mean...not art.

Classically, I believe math was typically considered more art than science.  And there are a lot of correlations.  Take music, which can be thought of as math made into sound.  Art has a lot of mathematical explanations for why it's pleasing to our eyes, ratios and whatnot.  I would say that it bridges the gap between art and science quite well.

My Latin teacher explained it this way:

Science and Math are both considered to be under the umbrella of 'Liberal Arts' which in antiquity really had a meaning closer to 'Skills worthy of the Free Man'. Both Science and math were part of the 'Quadrivium', and the humanities part of the 'Trivium', but all of it was still Liberal Arts.

A BS degree (per Wikipedia) was first created around 1860. So it looks like universities differentiating between BS and BA degrees is still fairly new, and from further reading it appears to be arbitrary whether a school calls a particular degree a BA or a BS.
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arebelspy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5512 on: November 21, 2014, 06:04:31 PM »
I always say I have a BS in Philosophy.

I'd estimate about 70% of the time the person doesn't notice, 20% of the time they notice but think I just don't know it's a BA, and only 10% of the time someone notices and gets the joke.
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sol

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5513 on: November 21, 2014, 07:57:13 PM »
it appears to be arbitrary whether a school calls a particular degree a BA or a BS.

At all of the fancy universities I have inhabited, the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.  Like it's the watered down version with fewer requirements and more latitude for class substitutions. 

Don't like multivariable calculus with imaginary numbers?  No problem, just substitute that Accounting 101 class instead and here's your BA in mathematics. 

It's almost like a mark of shame to have a BA in a STEM field.  It means you wanted to be a scientist and couldn't make the grades.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5514 on: November 21, 2014, 07:58:29 PM »

I drive a wrangler and I actually think that's really funny. I know, I know - face punches for driving a Wrangler.

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Malaysia41

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5515 on: November 21, 2014, 08:00:26 PM »
it appears to be arbitrary whether a school calls a particular degree a BA or a BS.

At all of the fancy universities I have inhabited, the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.  Like it's the watered down version with fewer requirements and more latitude for class substitutions. 

Don't like multivariable calculus with imaginary numbers?  No problem, just substitute that Accounting 101 class instead and here's your BA in mathematics. 

It's almost like a mark of shame to have a BA in a STEM field.  It means you wanted to be a scientist and couldn't make the grades.

A BA in Mathematics is for people who enjoy working proofs, but can't quite QED.
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Malaysia41

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5516 on: November 21, 2014, 08:02:38 PM »
I always say I have a BS in Philosophy.

I'd estimate about 70% of the time the person doesn't notice, 20% of the time they notice but think I just don't know it's a BA, and only 10% of the time someone notices and gets the joke.

I'm stealing your joke arebelspy.  It's brilliant! 

Because I DO have a BS in philosophy - from the University of Malaysia41.
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galliver

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5517 on: November 21, 2014, 08:16:58 PM »
it appears to be arbitrary whether a school calls a particular degree a BA or a BS.

At all of the fancy universities I have inhabited, the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.  Like it's the watered down version with fewer requirements and more latitude for class substitutions. 

Don't like multivariable calculus with imaginary numbers?  No problem, just substitute that Accounting 101 class instead and here's your BA in mathematics. 

It's almost like a mark of shame to have a BA in a STEM field.  It means you wanted to be a scientist and couldn't make the grades.

I just looked a few up, out of curiosity. I would wager that the "BA" comes from a liberal arts background, whereas the "BS" was introduced as math got more applied and technical, and they tend to have more rigorous requirements, though sometimes not in the math courses required but in the non-math electives. E.g. University of Arizona requires BS in math to take some math-based science courses, whereas BA requires 2 more years (semesters? I closed the window) of foreign language, which would be typical of a liberal-arts/well-rounded graduate sort of perspective.

Since the BA tends to have more leeway it would be much harder to evaluate the rigor of it, but it's not necessarily less rigorous.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5518 on: November 21, 2014, 10:09:45 PM »
it appears to be arbitrary whether a school calls a particular degree a BA or a BS.

At all of the fancy universities I have inhabited, the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.  Like it's the watered down version with fewer requirements and more latitude for class substitutions. 

Don't like multivariable calculus with imaginary numbers?  No problem, just substitute that Accounting 101 class instead and here's your BA in mathematics. 

It's almost like a mark of shame to have a BA in a STEM field.  It means you wanted to be a scientist and couldn't make the grades.

I highly doubt this is unilaterally the case (regarding the mark of shame). I went to a fancy liberal arts school and they awarded only BAs, but I'm pretty sure no one would be ashamed to have a BA in physics from this school. I'm not bragging or anything (my BA is in an arts field, more fool me), but I don't think the above is the whole story. Some people would even turn it around and say that the BA is more prestigious because it requires a more well-rounded curriculum.

sol

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5519 on: November 21, 2014, 11:19:40 PM »
Some people would even turn it around and say that the BA is more prestigious because it requires a more well-rounded curriculum.

Yea, I've heard that argument from liberal arts majors before, but I fail to see how fewer requirements could ever be considered more prestigious.  It's not like a person with BS was prevented from taking a well rounded curriculum, they were just required to take extra hard classes in their field, too.

When my sister was a newly minted poli sci major, she tried to convince me that her education was just as scientifically rigorous as mine because political science was a SCIENCE, you see, it's right there in the name.  I wasn't buying it then, either.

That's okay, I'm not down on you or her.  The world needs liberal arts majors too. 

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5520 on: November 21, 2014, 11:28:20 PM »
it appears to be arbitrary whether a school calls a particular degree a BA or a BS.

At all of the fancy universities I have inhabited, the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.  Like it's the watered down version with fewer requirements and more latitude for class substitutions. 

Don't like multivariable calculus with imaginary numbers?  No problem, just substitute that Accounting 101 class instead and here's your BA in mathematics. 

It's almost like a mark of shame to have a BA in a STEM field.  It means you wanted to be a scientist and couldn't make the grades.

I highly doubt this is unilaterally the case (regarding the mark of shame). I went to a fancy liberal arts school and they awarded only BAs, but I'm pretty sure no one would be ashamed to have a BA in physics from this school. I'm not bragging or anything (my BA is in an arts field, more fool me), but I don't think the above is the whole story. Some people would even turn it around and say that the BA is more prestigious because it requires a more well-rounded curriculum.

I also went to a fancy-pants school that awarded only BAs (actually ABs, since they were extra-fancy and used Latin) except for the engineering major, which awarded only BSs.

As for math as an art vs a science: I am a scientist and both my parents are mathematicians in academia. There are similarities in that we're all searching for "truth" in some way, plus the grant administration and paper writing as practical aspects. The big difference is that science is a lot more evidence-based, and we are more skeptical about people's claims since repeating an experiment yourself isn't the same as checking someone's proof. In both science and math I think there's a lot more intuition and "feel" involved than outsiders might expect.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5521 on: November 21, 2014, 11:51:42 PM »
Some people would even turn it around and say that the BA is more prestigious because it requires a more well-rounded curriculum.

Yea, I've heard that argument from liberal arts majors before, but I fail to see how fewer requirements could ever be considered more prestigious.  It's not like a person with BS was prevented from taking a well rounded curriculum, they were just required to take extra hard classes in their field, too.

When my sister was a newly minted poli sci major, she tried to convince me that her education was just as scientifically rigorous as mine because political science was a SCIENCE, you see, it's right there in the name.  I wasn't buying it then, either.

That's okay, I'm not down on you or her.  The world needs liberal arts majors too.

That is indeed a silly argument, but it wasn't mine, exactly. I guess it depends on who you're looking for approval from. If you're naturally inclined to math/science stuff, then English and history classes might actually be harder for you and you might be pushing yourself further outside your comfort zone to succeed in them. Also, is it true that the additional core classes required for a BS actually have to be more *advanced* than those required for a BA, or do they just have to be more *numerous*? I don't know the answer (being from a non-BS school, haha), I'm just wondering.

And I should clarify, I don't buy the "prestige" thing in one direction or the other; I'm only repeating arguments I've heard.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5522 on: November 22, 2014, 02:38:41 AM »
Quote from: jordanread link=topic=2540.msg461005#msg461005 date=


I got the comedy of it all, but had no idea that math was considered "the Arts". It's kind of a science-ey thing.And by science-ey, I mean...not art.

At my university (in England) every degree was a BA. You get a BA whether you graduate in mathematics, history, chemistry or english. The BS doesn't exist. 'Bachelor of Arts' doesn't mean anything literal any more - women graduate, for example, but we're still called Bachelor and not Spinster.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5523 on: November 22, 2014, 03:52:42 AM »
it appears to be arbitrary whether a school calls a particular degree a BA or a BS.

At all of the fancy universities I have inhabited, the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.  Like it's the watered down version with fewer requirements and more latitude for class substitutions. 

Don't like multivariable calculus with imaginary numbers?  No problem, just substitute that Accounting 101 class instead and here's your BA in mathematics. 

It's almost like a mark of shame to have a BA in a STEM field.  It means you wanted to be a scientist and couldn't make the grades.
OMG. I can't believe you carried that attitude beyond adolescence.    I had to listen to that crap all through college and I still get it at work sometimes but only from those who  are still insecure about themselves. Honestly, can you not understand that some people just did not want to become engineers because they don't like it and not because of a lack of aptitude. I got into the same school and I graduated the same school. I didn't take all of the same classes, but I took the same washout classes. You are not smarter just because you work with a slide rule. The next time you want to say anything to that effect or think it or even perpetuate it as an old stereotype, look in the mirror to figure out what you're trying to compensate for.
/end rant
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5524 on: November 22, 2014, 05:47:13 AM »
At my uni, a BSc in maths and a BA in maths are the same thing. Same courses, same education. Just depends on what else you wanted to major (or minor) in.

Surely what knowledge and skills you've gained from your degree is more important the the name of your degree.

(FYI I have a bachelor of science majoring in maths.. I did combinatorics. Honours Class I, and I became a high school teacher)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5525 on: November 22, 2014, 06:51:36 AM »
Going OT a bit here - and I hope with the nested quotes I got the right author.

Dogs don't need any rooms of their own.  They want to be in the same room as you are. That includes the bedroom, the bathroom, the laundry room - I feel like I have a permanent furry bodyguard.

Sorry I can't contribute to "overheard at work", being retired has its downsides.  I can toss in that way back when, while I was working FT, I took some night classes at a local university.  The students (just had their B.SCs, were doing a post-grad diploma) all had nicer clothes and fancier laptops than I did.  I couldn't help but wonder at their student debt  ;-(

Dogs need their own room or 2?  I'll have to consult with my dog tonight on this... poor thing has never had his own room, much less 2 rooms.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5526 on: November 22, 2014, 07:26:42 AM »
it appears to be arbitrary whether a school calls a particular degree a BA or a BS.

At all of the fancy universities I have inhabited, the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.  Like it's the watered down version with fewer requirements and more latitude for class substitutions. 

Don't like multivariable calculus with imaginary numbers?  No problem, just substitute that Accounting 101 class instead and here's your BA in mathematics. 

It's almost like a mark of shame to have a BA in a STEM field.  It means you wanted to be a scientist and couldn't make the grades.
OMG. I can't believe you carried that attitude beyond adolescence.    I had to listen to that crap all through college and I still get it at work sometimes but only from those who  are still insecure about themselves. Honestly, can you not understand that some people just did not want to become engineers because they don't like it and not because of a lack of aptitude. I got into the same school and I graduated the same school. I didn't take all of the same classes, but I took the same washout classes. You are not smarter just because you work with a slide rule. The next time you want to say anything to that effect or think it or even perpetuate it as an old stereotype, look in the mirror to figure out what you're trying to compensate for.
/end rant

I think he means take a major that can be BS or BA and put them side by side, and see what you think.

fartface

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5527 on: November 22, 2014, 12:14:47 PM »
My boss makes at least 30K more than me and I make 70K.

I asked her if her 403b contributions were taking excessively long to post to her account since our employer upgraded software. I just assumed - being the highest paid employee in my building - that she contributed.

She looked blankly at me, blinked once, and replied, "Retirement? What's that?"

Next, she asked me to write her a letter of recommendation b/c now, in addition to her six figure salary, she needs to start teaching others in her field at night for the extra income.

We drove to a conference together (live near each other). She offered to drive and pick me up. We cruised to the conference in her new 2014 leased SUV. She worked hard to impress me with the heated seats, auto-start ignition, and then even used her ON-STAR service to get directions to the venue.

Further, when we signed up for the conference - paid for by our employer -  I saw in the description that beverages, a continental breakfast, and lunch would be served. So naturally, I arrived with an empty stomach. I mean, it was a rewarding cash cow day for me:  I got a free ride, free coffee, free breakfast, free lunch, free snacks and was so full I didn't eat dinner that night. If I wanted to, I could even submit the mileage reimbursement and actually MAKE money b/c the business office approved it.

SHE on the other hand, called me from the Starbucks drive-thru asking if I wanted anything. I politely declined. When we got to the conference she sauntered in with not only her over-priced latte but also a Starbucks breakfast sandwich.

Whole time, I'm shaking my head...just shaking my head. I think it bothers me more b/c I genuinely like her, and respect her professionally. It's baffling how she can fritter away so much money on nonsense. 

She's got two little toddlers who she rarely sees - always in daycare - ug - drives me nuts - absolutely nuts.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 12:17:48 PM by fartface »

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5528 on: November 22, 2014, 02:41:13 PM »
OMG. I can't believe you carried that attitude beyond adolescence.    I had to listen to that crap all through college and I still get it at work sometimes but only from those who  are still insecure about themselves. Honestly, can you not understand that some people just did not want to become engineers because they don't like it and not because of a lack of aptitude. I got into the same school and I graduated the same school. I didn't take all of the same classes, but I took the same washout classes. You are not smarter just because you work with a slide rule. The next time you want to say anything to that effect or think it or even perpetuate it as an old stereotype, look in the mirror to figure out what you're trying to compensate for.
/end rant

With respect, while a BA may or may not be easier than a BS in the same subject at the same school (different requirements), if you measure aptitude in that field a BS means more.

Quote
Also, is it true that the additional core classes required for a BS actually have to be more *advanced* than those required for a BA, or do they just have to be more *numerous*?

Generally, yes. For example, a BA might require foreign language and english and blah blah, whereas a BS requires more depth in the field. You usually have various paths with n levels of prerequisites (calc 1 -> cal 2 -> calc 3 -> diff eq and linear algebra -> fourier analysis, systems, and signals -> digital signal processing) but a BA might let you top out two levels lower and instead take something else.

I'm not saying the BS is going to be a better person, and certainly the BA might be better rounded, but I wanted to hire someone to do fancy math I'd hire the BS over a BA (assuming the BA had the option to do a BS at their school.)

Once you compare across schools the difference essentially becomes moot. There's not enough context without seeing the person's list of courses, research, and work experience. Some schools only give BAs, some only BSes, some both, and they have various different requirements, and they teach classes with different levels of rigor. (A B-student in my university calc 3 course would be getting a C at best in my high school calc 1-2 course. It's even more pronounced between top-tier engineering schools and bottom-tier liberal arts schools; one teaches calculus to people who will use it regularly and professionally and the other teaches calculus so they can be accredited.)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5529 on: November 22, 2014, 03:49:31 PM »
My boss makes at least 30K more than me and I make 70K.

I asked her if her 403b contributions were taking excessively long to post to her account since our employer upgraded software. I just assumed - being the highest paid employee in my building - that she contributed.

She looked blankly at me, blinked once, and replied, "Retirement? What's that?"

Next, she asked me to write her a letter of recommendation b/c now, in addition to her six figure salary, she needs to start teaching others in her field at night for the extra income.

We drove to a conference together (live near each other). She offered to drive and pick me up. We cruised to the conference in her new 2014 leased SUV. She worked hard to impress me with the heated seats, auto-start ignition, and then even used her ON-STAR service to get directions to the venue.

Further, when we signed up for the conference - paid for by our employer -  I saw in the description that beverages, a continental breakfast, and lunch would be served. So naturally, I arrived with an empty stomach. I mean, it was a rewarding cash cow day for me:  I got a free ride, free coffee, free breakfast, free lunch, free snacks and was so full I didn't eat dinner that night. If I wanted to, I could even submit the mileage reimbursement and actually MAKE money b/c the business office approved it.

SHE on the other hand, called me from the Starbucks drive-thru asking if I wanted anything. I politely declined. When we got to the conference she sauntered in with not only her over-priced latte but also a Starbucks breakfast sandwich.

Whole time, I'm shaking my head...just shaking my head. I think it bothers me more b/c I genuinely like her, and respect her professionally. It's baffling how she can fritter away so much money on nonsense. 

She's got two little toddlers who she rarely sees - always in daycare - ug - drives me nuts - absolutely nuts.
Okay, you had me until the last sentence.  Describe "always".  Does she not get sick time, holidays, vacation days?  Does she work 60-70 hours a week?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5530 on: November 22, 2014, 04:11:17 PM »
Quote
Once you compare across schools the difference essentially becomes moot. There's not enough context without seeing the person's list of courses, research, and work experience.

This in spades.

DH has a BA in computer science. I have a BS in Management/Marketing. This makes me laugh because although I am a geek, he is much more rigorous in the science/brain department.

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5531 on: November 22, 2014, 04:24:01 PM »
With respect, while a BA may or may not be easier than a BS in the same subject at the same school (different requirements), if you measure aptitude in that field a BS means more.

This is the comment that I took issue with.  It is just plain rude. 
Quote
the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

GrayGhost

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5532 on: November 22, 2014, 04:29:55 PM »
Okay, you had me until the last sentence.  Describe "always".  Does she not get sick time, holidays, vacation days?  Does she work 60-70 hours a week?

It's not easy being a working parent in the US, especially at higher paid positions. There are (in my opinion) absurd expectations placed on you. You have to work the standard forty hours, plus more if your company needs you, and once you get higher up, your company always needs you. The pay is really great, but unless you run your personal life on a tight ship, I don't know if it's worth it.
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RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5533 on: November 22, 2014, 04:35:17 PM »
Different aptitudes.  I love Biology and like Chemistry, so my B.Sc. and M. Sc. were relatively easy (not that I slacked, but I understood the material easily).  I would have had a very difficult time doing the course load for a BA, any BA, my mind does not work that way.  So someone from a BA perspective could say those of us in the sciences are not smart enough to get a BA in their areas, and they would be correct.

With respect, while a BA may or may not be easier than a BS in the same subject at the same school (different requirements), if you measure aptitude in that field a BS means more.

This is the comment that I took issue with.  It is just plain rude. 
Quote
the BA is for people who aren't smart enough to get a BS.

boogiewoogie

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5534 on: November 23, 2014, 06:48:34 AM »
Here's something slightly more technical than normal, but I guess there's a lot of tech people here.

I work in software development, and one of the contractors working for me mentioned that his RAID6 had two disk failures and so he had to order some more disks whilst getting the failed ones replaced under warranty. As a result of adding new disks the RAID would now be almost 20 TB.

Who needs 20 TBs of disk space?! I wonder if he's trying to back up the internet. As far as I can tell it just holds anime and movies. Of course his "server" runs 24 hours a day.

This is the same guy who spends thousands of pounds of take away pizza, and recently moved to a house with twice as expensive rent.

I have tried to get him to cut back but clearly don't seem to be succeeding

solon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5535 on: November 23, 2014, 07:07:42 AM »
I bet the first person to mention the BA/BS thing is just shaking their head. This is worse that the black box stuff.

philby85

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5536 on: November 23, 2014, 07:43:35 AM »
Who needs 20 TBs of disk space?! I wonder if he's trying to back up the internet. As far as I can tell it just holds anime and movies. Of course his "server" runs 24 hours a day.

Hard drive space is pretty cheap now. I agree that 20TB is a lot of space, but only costs about $1000 now.

I have about 12TB of space. When you store movies and TV shows in high definition, it adds up quickly.

Legalities to one side, it can save you a fortune on internet (by swapping files between friends), saving on netflix/itunes/etc subscriptions, saves hiring DVD's (and you don't have the hassle of going to the shop or scratched DVD's that skip), saves buying and then storing large collections of DVD's, allows you to copy video files to portable devices easily.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5537 on: November 23, 2014, 08:16:52 AM »
Who needs 20 TBs of disk space?! I wonder if he's trying to back up the internet. As far as I can tell it just holds anime and movies. Of course his "server" runs 24 hours a day.

Hard drive space is pretty cheap now. I agree that 20TB is a lot of space, but only costs about $1000 now.


I guess my problem with it is a digital equivalent of collecting more stuff. It's not a sustainable habit. A netflix subscription would be cheaper than the monthly electricity costs of running the NAS (which is actually a i7 computer with SLI GPUs, and not an appliance).








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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5538 on: November 23, 2014, 10:34:00 AM »
I travel a lot for work. This is one big reason I want to be debt free and FI as young as possible so that I can have freedom to do something that isn't such a hectic pace if I want at some point.

So I was on a 6:10am flight (got up at ~4am) to fly to some god-awful place and the two guys behind me were talking non stop about their luxury cars. One had an M3 (base price is > $60k but it sounded like it was really loaded...probably more like $75-80k I'd guess). They went on and on about how great their cars were but how they both had to go back to the dealership multiple times so they could be shown how to use the navigation, etc. since the cars were so complicated. An M3 is also a TERRIBLE choice for a daily driver in mid-west winters.

I couldn't help but think - if you're busting your ass getting up at 4am to travel commercial airline and deal with all the other hassles of business travel and all it gets you is a lifestyle where you drive a rapidly depreciating car that costs 1.5x the average household income in the US then you're just straight crazy! I do it because I know that it gives me long term freedom.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5539 on: November 23, 2014, 11:08:14 AM »
I bet the first person to mention the BA/BS thing is just shaking their head. This is worse that the black box stuff.

I think I'm the one who asked the question. I just giggled and felt like a superhero rescuing someone tied to the train tracks by making everything go completely off the rails.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5540 on: November 23, 2014, 01:04:58 PM »
Old coworker got a new job. Took $3,000 out of his 401(k) before rolling it over to pay off credit card bills. (Starting balance was only around $10k after working for 7 years!) Then proceeds to re-do his bathroom because the old colors looked dark and made the bathroom look small.

*face palm*

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5541 on: November 23, 2014, 01:25:43 PM »
I bet the first person to mention the BA/BS thing is just shaking their head. This is worse that the black box stuff.

This is a thread and a forum dedicated to judging people for poor choices. That's fine and everyone here gets a laugh from mocking these coworkers, but every now and then someone here will feel personally offended because they themselves made a poor decision that is the object of derision, like buying a Wrangler or driving a few miles to work or getting a less than useful or soft degree.

Basically, some people can dish it out but can't take it.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5542 on: November 23, 2014, 01:38:35 PM »
I think there is a built-in bias on this forum, in that so many are in the sciences or tech fields, many of which are extremely well paying.  This seems to result in people thinking their field is better than other fields, and dissing BAs.  Of course you are all deluding yourselves, because everyone knows that Biology is the most wonderful and challenging science.  Physics and Chemistry are so predictable, in comparison.  Mind you, Geology is kind of neat.

Of course this is not to say that all Biologists are wonderfully sensible in their money management, alas.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming, please, I need more things to laugh at from retirement.  ;-)

I bet the first person to mention the BA/BS thing is just shaking their head. This is worse that the black box stuff.

This is a thread and a forum dedicated to judging people for poor choices. That's fine and everyone here gets a laugh from mocking these coworkers, but every now and then someone here will feel personally offended because they themselves made a poor decision that is the object of derision, like buying a Wrangler or driving a few miles to work or getting a less than useful or soft degree.

Basically, some people can dish it out but can't take it.

arebelspy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5543 on: November 23, 2014, 01:56:00 PM »

I bet the first person to mention the BA/BS thing is just shaking their head. This is worse that the black box stuff.

This is a thread and a forum dedicated to judging people for poor choices. That's fine and everyone here gets a laugh from mocking these coworkers, but every now and then someone here will feel personally offended because they themselves made a poor decision that is the object of derision, like buying a Wrangler or driving a few miles to work or getting a less than useful or soft degree.

Basically, some people can dish it out but can't take it.

What makes a degree useful or not?

The average salary of those with that degree?  Something else?
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5544 on: November 23, 2014, 04:21:54 PM »
Who needs 20 TBs of disk space?! I wonder if he's trying to back up the internet. As far as I can tell it just holds anime and movies. Of course his "server" runs 24 hours a day.

A photographer would probably enjoy that much storage space. Likely it's just full of pirated movies and such, though. This is a fairly common thing where I work.

Primm

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5545 on: November 23, 2014, 04:46:52 PM »

I bet the first person to mention the BA/BS thing is just shaking their head. This is worse that the black box stuff.

This is a thread and a forum dedicated to judging people for poor choices. That's fine and everyone here gets a laugh from mocking these coworkers, but every now and then someone here will feel personally offended because they themselves made a poor decision that is the object of derision, like buying a Wrangler or driving a few miles to work or getting a less than useful or soft degree.

Basically, some people can dish it out but can't take it.

What makes a degree useful or not?

The average salary of those with that degree?  Something else?

If that's the criteria for a useful degree then my Bachelor of Nursing is a fail. Right now my base salary is $71k, and that's top of my range. The only way I can get more money is to study for a Masters and get a promotion into management / semi-management.

But I save lives. Daily. And I'm talking quite literally here - I work in NICU, and almost every single day that I work a baby lives who otherwise wouldn't if myself and my colleagues weren't there. Useful? You tell me.

I think a useful degree is one which allows a person to work in a position which gives them a sense of purpose and pays them enough to afford the freedom to make choices. Soft / hard? STEM / Arts? Who cares? Follow your passion is rubbish too, my passion is restoring historic cars but that will never make me enough to pay the bills, plus I like driving them too much to sell them when I'm done and take the profit!

WildJager

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5546 on: November 23, 2014, 04:58:14 PM »
If that's the criteria for a useful degree then my Bachelor of Nursing is a fail. Right now my base salary is $71k, and that's top of my range. The only way I can get more money is to study for a Masters and get a promotion into management / semi-management.

But I save lives. Daily. And I'm talking quite literally here - I work in NICU, and almost every single day that I work a baby lives who otherwise wouldn't if myself and my colleagues weren't there. Useful? You tell me.

Thank you for your service. 

I've had to come to terms that the most important people in our society (nurses, teachers, cops, soldiers, etc) are paid shit compared to our jesters (actors, athletes, news anchors, etc).  All I can do is laugh and acknowledge that so many of us feel safe enough that our extra capital goes to jesters rather than important laborers.  I suppose that means that important people, like you, are doing your job well.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5547 on: November 23, 2014, 05:48:43 PM »
I guess my problem with it is a digital equivalent of collecting more stuff. It's not a sustainable habit. A netflix subscription would be cheaper than the monthly electricity costs of running the NAS (which is actually a i7 computer with SLI GPUs, and not an appliance).

I see what you are saying with regards to collecting more stuff. I have some friends where it is almost an addiction to collect more and more movies/TV shows that they will never watch.

With regards to the i7 and SLI GPU's, some possible reasons for the setup
1) It allows him to take just one PC to LAN parties rather than two (NAS and gaming PC)
2) Some people donate computational time to scientific research (called folding)
3) It may be a steam box (basically a console for playing PC games on the TV)
4) Bitcoin mining (though, it is getting harder and harder to make money from it).

johnintaiwan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5548 on: November 23, 2014, 07:15:38 PM »
If that's the criteria for a useful degree then my Bachelor of Nursing is a fail. Right now my base salary is $71k, and that's top of my range. The only way I can get more money is to study for a Masters and get a promotion into management / semi-management.

But I save lives. Daily. And I'm talking quite literally here - I work in NICU, and almost every single day that I work a baby lives who otherwise wouldn't if myself and my colleagues weren't there. Useful? You tell me.

Thank you for your service. 

I've had to come to terms that the most important people in our society (nurses, teachers, cops, soldiers, etc) are paid shit compared to our jesters (actors, athletes, news anchors, etc).  All I can do is laugh and acknowledge that so many of us feel safe enough that our extra capital goes to jesters rather than important laborers.  I suppose that means that important people, like you, are doing your job well.

Are we saying that 71K a year is shit?

I would also wager that the average salary of our "jesters" is lower than the average salary of the "important people." our view of what "jesters" earn is probably skewed because we only see the top of the top.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #5549 on: November 23, 2014, 07:25:54 PM »
If that's the criteria for a useful degree then my Bachelor of Nursing is a fail. Right now my base salary is $71k, and that's top of my range. The only way I can get more money is to study for a Masters and get a promotion into management / semi-management.

But I save lives. Daily. And I'm talking quite literally here - I work in NICU, and almost every single day that I work a baby lives who otherwise wouldn't if myself and my colleagues weren't there. Useful? You tell me.

Thank you for your service. 

I've had to come to terms that the most important people in our society (nurses, teachers, cops, soldiers, etc) are paid shit compared to our jesters (actors, athletes, news anchors, etc).  All I can do is laugh and acknowledge that so many of us feel safe enough that our extra capital goes to jesters rather than important laborers.  I suppose that means that important people, like you, are doing your job well.

Are we saying that 71K a year is shit?

I would also wager that the average salary of our "jesters" is lower than the average salary of the "important people." our view of what "jesters" earn is probably skewed because we only see the top of the top.

It's not shit, but it's not great compared to what I could get with an equivalent qualification in, say, CS. And not have to work nights, weekends and public holidays. And not have people spit in my face. Plus there's the home town (dis)advantage.

COL comparison between my home town to Jacksonville, Florida (approximately equivalent in climate and population) - http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Australia&country2=United+States&city1=Brisbane&city2=Jacksonville%2C+FL

So my $71k (before tax) AUD translates to $46k (also before tax) USD in what it will buy locally. Horses for courses.

I agree with you about the jesters though. I have two friends who are a professional actor and a professional playwright. They both supplement their income with other work, but their "talent" income, considering they both work the equivalent of full time hours, is less than what they'd make somewhere like McDonalds.