Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 6416709 times)

HappierAtHome

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1050 on: November 14, 2013, 10:05:49 PM »
"It's impossible to only have one car if you have children".

I pointed out that my brother has two small children and only one car.

"Public transport is just not an option for my suburb. It takes too long to get into the city. I have to drive everywhere".

Chose not to point out that hey, YOU CHOSE WHICH SUBURB TO LIVE IN, but I did diplomatically note that I'm planning future housing choices around good public tranport, bike paths etc.

Sigh.

While I won't disagree with the concept.  There is no way I'd move into some cities right now.  And really, uprooting families to a new city is not a very easy decision to make.  Yes, it can and has been done but it can be rather emotional.  Not to mention the whole finding new employment thing.

For instance, the city of Philadelphia - if I worked in the city, there is no way I would move closer to work (i.e.: in the city) with kids.  The school system is a joke right now. 

the appropriate question is: what kind of cars do they have?

Large expensive ones, of course :-)

I think the key thing here is to recognise that you're CHOOSING to live your life the way you're living it. Which is great if you're happy with your choices. But these people are telling me that they have no control and it's all just magically turned out in a way that costs them loads of money. No sense of personal responsibility for the consequences of their choices. It's fine to choose to live in a certain suburb, but that means that if there's no public transport, that's not luck, that's a choice they've made. The universe is not conspiring to keep these people broke - that's the result of the choices they're making.

Personally, I'd rather control my spending, save more money and be able to buy a house in a suburb that has a decent commute (AND decent schools, for that matter, which is definitely possible in my city where my coworkers live - I can't comment on other cities or countries). But that requires long term thinking and the ability to resist instant gratification, which I've noticed are skills lacking amongst my peer group.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1051 on: November 15, 2013, 01:03:59 AM »
I guess we know where our raise went.

Sounds like bullshit. If you believe your current pay grade is unfair, it may be time to start circulating your resume.
And I have been.  I mean, I've hired 3 engineers in the last couple of years who are at my level but without the years of experience in our particular industry.  The going rate?  Apparently $12k to $40k more than I am getting paid.

Yes, I'm looking.  But I'm also picky.

That's rough but I feel like I'm missing something.  Do you have a poor relationship with your boss?  I feel like when hiring those new engineers you could have raised the issue of engineer retention.  Maybe give your boss your resume and mention that this guy looks pretty good and should probably earn market rate.

Half-Borg

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1052 on: November 15, 2013, 01:42:18 AM »
From a guy with a financed car and credit card debt, who is in the same situation as me (no family, nice paycheck, "could" bike to work, he even pays the same for rent):
"Of course you can save while I can't, you earn more money."
I earn 300 more and save around 2000 more...

Zamboni

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1053 on: November 15, 2013, 04:00:18 PM »
^And when he gets the 300 euro raise, he still won't be able to save, of course.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1054 on: November 15, 2013, 08:12:40 PM »
I guess we know where our raise went.

Sounds like bullshit. If you believe your current pay grade is unfair, it may be time to start circulating your resume.
And I have been.  I mean, I've hired 3 engineers in the last couple of years who are at my level but without the years of experience in our particular industry.  The going rate?  Apparently $12k to $40k more than I am getting paid.

Yes, I'm looking.  But I'm also picky.

That's rough but I feel like I'm missing something.  Do you have a poor relationship with your boss?  I feel like when hiring those new engineers you could have raised the issue of engineer retention.  Maybe give your boss your resume and mention that this guy looks pretty good and should probably earn market rate.

Yes, we've had a hard time hiring engineers because of our pay not being that great.  Which changed over the last two years.  When we hired the last engineer, my boss pitched the suggestion that because she was expensive, we push out hiring her for a couple of months.  I didn't think we could wait that long.  He then said "well, I wanted to give you a raise but I don't have the budget to do both".  Stupid me said "I'd rather you hire her."  I mean, I like the fact that he WANTS to give me a raise. Which means when he has the budget, I'll get one, right?  And really, I was thinking of the success of the company.  We needed her.

Well, we reorg'd, and now he's not my boss anymore. :(  And she's frustrated and probably going to quit, just like the other senior engineer did.  It's turned into a not-so-fun place to work.  Shoulda taken the pay raise.

Zikoris

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1055 on: November 15, 2013, 09:27:26 PM »
My boyfriend had a great conversation with a couple of coworkers in the lunchroom a couple o days ago.

He was eating fried rice and a calzone, leftover from dinner the night before. Coworkers were eating takeout.

CW1: That looks good - does your girlfriend cook dinner every night?
Him: Yeah...
CW2: She probably doesn't have a long commute like the rest of us.
CW1: Wow... How can she do that? Do you go grocery shopping every day?
Him: No... why would we? We go a few times a week. We go shopping together - it's not that hard.
CW1: I wouldn't know what to make.
Him: *facepalm*

Makes you realize how much of the stuff mustachians do every day practically on autopilot seems completely impossible/insane to "others".
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brewer12345

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1056 on: November 15, 2013, 10:36:12 PM »
I guess we know where our raise went.

Sounds like bullshit. If you believe your current pay grade is unfair, it may be time to start circulating your resume.
And I have been.  I mean, I've hired 3 engineers in the last couple of years who are at my level but without the years of experience in our particular industry.  The going rate?  Apparently $12k to $40k more than I am getting paid.

Yes, I'm looking.  But I'm also picky.

That's rough but I feel like I'm missing something.  Do you have a poor relationship with your boss?  I feel like when hiring those new engineers you could have raised the issue of engineer retention.  Maybe give your boss your resume and mention that this guy looks pretty good and should probably earn market rate.

Yes, we've had a hard time hiring engineers because of our pay not being that great.  Which changed over the last two years.  When we hired the last engineer, my boss pitched the suggestion that because she was expensive, we push out hiring her for a couple of months.  I didn't think we could wait that long.  He then said "well, I wanted to give you a raise but I don't have the budget to do both".  Stupid me said "I'd rather you hire her."  I mean, I like the fact that he WANTS to give me a raise. Which means when he has the budget, I'll get one, right?  And really, I was thinking of the success of the company.  We needed her.

Well, we reorg'd, and now he's not my boss anymore. :(  And she's frustrated and probably going to quit, just like the other senior engineer did.  It's turned into a not-so-fun place to work.  Shoulda taken the pay raise.

I'd say you need to find a new, better job.
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C. K.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1057 on: November 16, 2013, 02:32:51 AM »

I have 3 housemates, and every single one of them buys bottled water. We have two entire fridges filled with bottled water. Like, what!

Admittedly, it all depends on the quality of the tap water. I wouldn't want to drink it if it's not clean or tastes of chlorine, but where I live it's all right. Actually, I remember reading about a survey in Germany not too long ago that showed most bottled waters are inferior to tap water in terms of mineral composition and microbial contamination (they are probably still fine, but definitely not better than tap water).

We distill our tap water with a Waterwise Distiller. Problem solved.

Daleth

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1058 on: November 16, 2013, 02:33:45 PM »
For instance, the city of Philadelphia - if I worked in the city, there is no way I would move closer to work (i.e.: in the city) with kids.  The school system is a joke right now. 
Personally, I'd rather control my spending, save more money and be able to buy a house in a suburb that has a decent commute (AND decent schools, for that matter, which is definitely possible in my city where my coworkers live - I can't comment on other cities or countries). But that requires long term thinking and the ability to resist instant gratification, which I've noticed are skills lacking amongst my peer group.

Third option: live in the city, have one cheap car instead of two expensive ones, and use what you save on car payments, gas, insurance and gym memberships (not needed if you're biking/walking everywhere) to cover or help cover your kids' tuition at a private school.

Or live in the city and send your kids to a good charter or magnet school.

Maybe I just shy away from feeling permanently locked into something that might not turn out to be right for me/us, but I've never understood why people spend a ton to buy houses in X suburb "because of the schools" when generally speaking, at least in most American/European/Canadian cities, there are good options other than your default neighborhood public schools. I'd rather have a cheaper house and the ability to choose between various schools (some free--charter and magnet schools--some not).

the fixer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1059 on: November 16, 2013, 02:37:51 PM »
We distill our tap water with a Waterwise Distiller. Problem solved.

If the only problem is chlorine, there's a cheaper way: leave water out in an open container for ~24 hours. Chlorine evaporates. This won't work for water treated with chloramine though.

lizfish

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1060 on: November 16, 2013, 03:13:51 PM »
Finally registered for the forums just so I could post this.  Today during one of our periodic corporate updates at work, the CEO of the company said the following to a group of about 80 employees:

"We like it when [employees] have babies, get big mortgages, buy expensive cars... Once you got that we gotcha!"

This makes me feel a little bit sick. I can't believe anyone would consciously think this let alone say it out loud. So predatory it's untrue.

Strawberrykiwi75

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1061 on: November 16, 2013, 05:39:07 PM »
Not overheard at work, but I have to post this anyway for sheer disbelief!

I just had brunch with my uncle, who I only see a couple times a year. He was telling me that he wasn't going to retire until age 68 because he couldn't afford to earlier (he's currently 61). This is crazy to me, he is a big shot lawyer, owns half of his law firm, and has a mammoth income. I think I once calculated it based on something he said to be approximately 230k per year. What's he spent all that money on??

Nudelkopf

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1062 on: November 16, 2013, 06:24:42 PM »
"I haven't saved anything this year" - from an otherwise very intelligent co-worker. Like me, he also only pays $35/week in rent, and is on about $70,000. I have no idea where his money has gone.

summersundries

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1063 on: November 17, 2013, 11:11:55 AM »
Yes! my and a coworker were talking about housing in the area.  It's currently a rock bottom prices and you can get an awesome, new 3 bedroom for like 150,000$.  You can get a fixer-upper for 75,000$.  She admitted to me she had paid a lot extra for her house rather than another one she was looking at, because it already had a dishwasher installed...  I had to fight every fiber in my body not to A.) facepalm and B.) slap her to she if it would wake her up.  She said sure, she could have just had one installed in the other house, but they'd have to run a hydro line to it, and it was just too much trouble for her.  Or. she could just teach her kids some responsibility and have them wash the dishes.  Argggg!

Also whenever I say to someone "oh I can't afford that", or "that's too expensive for my budget" or "I don't really need an Ipad.  Your's is nice though"  They look at me like I have lobsters in my hair.  They keep asking "If I can afford it and I earn half your salary how can you not afford it?"  I'm too polite to point out that sense they all carry credit card debt, keep refinancing their mortgages, and complain they can't afford to live and feed their families whenever the taxes go up by 0.5%, they too also cannot afford it.  They just don't know it yet!

summersundries

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1064 on: November 17, 2013, 11:31:20 AM »
I work in IT sales; the office is chock full of really smart people in their early 20's who are pulling down between 60-100k per year.

These youngsters I work with seem to be more frugal than average. I wouldn't call them mustachian, but these kids are the millennials who have seen the following during their formative years:

-Negligible stock market returns in the past decade
-Two wars that have killed some of their friends and helped create massive amounts of debt that their generation will likely shoulder
-The worst recession since the "big one" in '29
-Crushing unemployment and student loan debt (which cannot be discharged even in bankruptcy!) for their cohorts who are not smart/skilled/lucky enough to land a good job

Perhaps the millenials will "look" financially more like the generation who lived through the great depression, rather than generation x or the baby boomers.

Best,
Mr. Pop

You are so right by the way!  I am 26 years old, and I have watched on the news people being evicted out of their homes with only 20 minutes to grab what they can before the locks are changed.  That really changes a person.  You realize when you see people grabbing the dog and baby and leaving behind the big screen tv, stereo system, gaming console, new sofa, and everything else, what is really important when it comes down to the wire.  Maybe if they hadn't bought all that junk, that didn't really matter that much to them in the end, they wouldn't be getting evicted.

I have also watched my parents be layed off after years of tireless service and struggle with years of unemployment, not sure if they can afford to pay the heat AND the mortgage.  My other parent is just HORRENDOUS with money and I watched as he retired, jacked up his lifestyle to exceed his retirement income, and now has to scramble to get a full-time job competing with the legion of unemployed new university grads for minimum wage jobs that are available.

I watched friends delay having children because their consumer and student loan debt was too crushing.  They in essence let a credit card company and a bank tell them when they can start having kids.  That's crazy!

And yes realizing that if everything went pear shaped I could literally not discharge my student loans unless I DIED, has really made me super keen on paying it all off.  What maturing during the recession teaches you, is you really don't own anything until you have no debt and enough FU money saved up.  Also it gives a great perverse pleasure in s****ing the government/ banks out of all the interest they thought they were going to get out of me!  When I said this to a friend once she asked me if I thought everyone following this exampled would collapse the economy, since it's so dependent on consumer spending.  I told her if the economy depended on me, and everyone else, being a debt slave for the rest of our lives I frankly hoped it crashed and burned as fast as possible, so we could start building something better sooner.  I'm not going to put the shackles back on my hands because it's "good for the economy (read: society)."  When they were evicting those families on tv, no one was thanking them for doing their part for the economy!

Sorry that got pretty angry.  I guess I didn't realized how annoyed I was with the whole situation.

Albert

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1065 on: November 17, 2013, 12:16:13 PM »
Discussed the other day with a colleague our commuting costs. I live about 30 km from work and take public transport to get there (train+bus - about 45 min door to door). The local public transport pass costs me about 840$/year. He lives ca 40 km from work and drives (has good reasons to do so) and it takes for him about 40 min in good traffic, bit up to an hour in a bad one. He has a small car so let's assume about 15 km/l (ca 35 miles per gallon in US units). Considering the current gas prices of ca 2$/liter (ca 7.5$/gallon) the total comes to 2,400$/year or close to 3x more than myself in gas alone! He has started to save a bit by car sharing with another colleague living nearby, but still big +++ for efficiency of public transportation.

huadpe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1066 on: November 17, 2013, 01:26:31 PM »
Discussed the other day with a colleague our commuting costs. I live about 30 km from work and take public transport to get there (train+bus - about 45 min door to door). The local public transport pass costs me about 840$/year. He lives ca 40 km from work and drives (has good reasons to do so) and it takes for him about 40 min in good traffic, bit up to an hour in a bad one. He has a small car so let's assume about 15 km/l (ca 35 miles per gallon in US units). Considering the current gas prices of ca 2$/liter (ca 7.5$/gallon) the total comes to 2,400$/year or close to 3x more than myself in gas alone! He has started to save a bit by car sharing with another colleague living nearby, but still big +++ for efficiency of public transportation.

It's amazing to me how high the tax on petroleum is there.  Current spot prices for gasoline (that is the bulk price before all tax or station markup) are around $0.60-$0.70/l USD, or EUR 0.45-0.52/l  Which means fully 3/4 of the price of the gasoline there is coming from tax and transport.  And, given the cheapness of transporting a liter of fluid by pipeline, it's pretty much all tax.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1067 on: November 17, 2013, 01:36:52 PM »
Quote
I'd say you need to find a new, better job.

Yep, I'm looking.  I had a great lead on a job from a former coworker at a different company.  Sadly, they selected someone else.

It has to be the right job. I've learned over the last 10 years or so to be careful about taking a step "back" with the promise of something better (it rarely works out that way), so keep moving forward.

I have a large amount of stock options in the current company (I was employee #21).  We are not public.  If I leave I either have to risk it and buy the shares (knowing they could be worthless) or just leave them on the table. So I am not going to leave without the right option.

This could be either a step forward to a growing company that I would enjoy working for, a nice big fat pay raise to work for a government contractor (my least favorite choice), or a switch to the local university for a likely pay cut - but also better benefits and WAY more time off.

SwordGuy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1068 on: November 17, 2013, 02:12:33 PM »
and I have watched on the news people being evicted out of their homes with only 20 minutes to grab what they can before the locks are changed. 

I don't believe there is a single jurisdiction in the United States or Canada where people being evicted hadn't been given fair notice to pay their rent long before the sheriffs showed up.

Other than that, very good observations.

sunshine

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1069 on: November 17, 2013, 06:02:55 PM »
I hear some depressing things and things that tick me off. One coworker that combined has an income 3 times ours saying they are too broke to buy groceries. Any advice is met with resistance and that I am just lucky. Nope I am discipline.

Another in their 60s saying they have to work until they die despite no debt yet shops at the mall daily.

The owner saying he has to work a second job.We are all straight commission and so busy we can't keep up with business. The staff has had to double and we still need more to meet customer demand.y see the numbers. They are fantastic. The bosses spouse is a retired gov worker with a great pension and benefits.

It makes me sad and sometimes down right annoyed.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1070 on: November 17, 2013, 07:39:45 PM »
Also whenever I say to someone "oh I can't afford that", or "that's too expensive for my budget" or "I don't really need an Ipad.  Your's is nice though"  They look at me like I have lobsters in my hair. 

I hear some depressing things and things that tick me off. One coworker that combined has an income 3 times ours saying they are too broke to buy groceries. Any advice is met with resistance and that I am just lucky. Nope I am discipline.

I love it!  If you tell people you can't afford something, you are Mustachian.  If someone tells you they can't afford something, they are AntiMustachian.

summersundries

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1071 on: November 18, 2013, 03:19:41 PM »

I don't believe there is a single jurisdiction in the United States or Canada where people being evicted hadn't been given fair notice to pay their rent long before the sheriffs showed up.

Other than that, very good observations.
[/quote]

Oh, I wasn't saying these people weren't given fair notice.  They were just the worst examples of people sticking their head in the sand and ignoring the route causes of their problems,  overspending on "stuff" obviously being one of them.  Of course we cannot know the other factors at play in their lives, but since they got told they were being evicted weeks in advance and choose to sit around watch their big screen, high def. tv until the eviction guy came, we can probably surmise these weren't proactive, long term planning kind of people.  I really hope they got their lives together and learned a valuable lesson, and are spending money on things that really matter.

SwordGuy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1072 on: November 18, 2013, 06:37:10 PM »
Also whenever I say to someone "oh I can't afford that", or "that's too expensive for my budget" or "I don't really need an Ipad.  Your's is nice though"  They look at me like I have lobsters in my hair. 

I hear some depressing things and things that tick me off. One coworker that combined has an income 3 times ours saying they are too broke to buy groceries. Any advice is met with resistance and that I am just lucky. Nope I am discipline.

I love it!  If you tell people you can't afford something, you are Mustachian.  If someone tells you they can't afford something, they are AntiMustachian.

There is a bit of a difference between "can't afford an expensive and optional electronic gadget" and "food to live on".

summersundries

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1073 on: November 18, 2013, 06:41:42 PM »
Hi, sorry I just remembered this one and it still makes me laugh when I think of it.

Talking to a pregnant coworker about her afterwork plans.
her "oh my and my hubby have to take every tues. and thurs. off early unpaid.  I'm leaving in a few minutes."
Me "oh that's nice, where are you going?"
Her "we're taking our 12 month old to swimming lessons, they're over an hour's drive away!"
Me "what?  Isn't there a pool like 5 minutes drive from your house (20 minute walk)?  Do they not do swimming lessons?"
Her "oh yeah but we didn't like the instructor so we thought we'd go to this other one an hour away, it's so worth it."
Me"  ummm ok"
Her "yeah it's great my husband gets to in in with him and help out.  But he doesn't always agree with the instructors methods."
Me "oh really?"
Her "yeah, well he would know He's a swim instructor himself and he teaches several classes."
Me (staggered silence) "... your husband is a qualified swim instructor... and your driving an hour away and paying someone else how much to teach your child how to put his face underwater and kick his legs?"
Her "Oh it's not too bad, only 300$ for 10 sessions, we just wanted him to get some socialization."
I think at that point I smiled, nodded and found something very distracting to do in my pile of paperwork.

Sigh this same woman had to leave her mate leave early because her and her hubby can't afford the pay cut.  I wanted to shake her and say, if you had been willing to teach your own kid how pools work (something at 12 months he will not remember I remind you) you would get to stay at home, relaxed, enjoying both your children's company.  She earns the same as I do (if not more) and I know the cost of living is super low here.  I don't know why she always seems so tight on cash.  Well actually I guess I do know... but really.

Jamesqf

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1074 on: November 18, 2013, 08:38:04 PM »
and your driving an hour away and paying someone else how much to teach your child how to put his face underwater and kick his legs?"
Her "Oh it's not too bad, only 300$ for 10 sessions..."

(Sigh) Makes one long for the old days, when I learned to swim by having the big kids push me into the deep part of the creek.  I like to think they would have pulled me out if I'd sunk, but I don't know for sure.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1075 on: November 18, 2013, 09:21:43 PM »
Also whenever I say to someone "oh I can't afford that", or "that's too expensive for my budget" or "I don't really need an Ipad.  Your's is nice though"  They look at me like I have lobsters in my hair. 

I hear some depressing things and things that tick me off. One coworker that combined has an income 3 times ours saying they are too broke to buy groceries. Any advice is met with resistance and that I am just lucky. Nope I am discipline.

I love it!  If you tell people you can't afford something, you are Mustachian.  If someone tells you they can't afford something, they are AntiMustachian.

There is a bit of a difference between "can't afford an expensive and optional electronic gadget" and "food to live on".

There's a difference if they actually can't afford it and aren't just saying that to explain nonconsumerism (like many here do.. telling thei coworkers they "can't afford" something when really they just want to be left alone)

sunshine

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1076 on: November 18, 2013, 10:42:28 PM »
Also whenever I say to someone "oh I can't afford that", or "that's too expensive for my budget" or "I don't really need an Ipad.  Your's is nice though"  They look at me like I have lobsters in my hair. 

I hear some depressing things and things that tick me off. One coworker that combined has an income 3 times ours saying they are too broke to buy groceries. Any advice is met with resistance and that I am just lucky. Nope I am discipline.

I love it!  If you tell people you can't afford something, you are Mustachian.  If someone tells you they can't afford something, they are AntiMustachian.

There is a bit of a difference between "can't afford an expensive and optional electronic gadget" and "food to live on".

Yes there is but when the person saying they can't buy food is pulling down $180k as a family in a low cost area it is a ridiculous statement.  I mean come on. I see all the toys and habits. They can buy food easily.

I never tell people I can't afford something. I simply say I don't want too, want it, want too go etc. I don't really care what they think about it.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 10:49:33 PM by sunshine »

michaelrecycles

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1077 on: November 19, 2013, 08:57:13 AM »
Yesterday, I was stuck in a room with unfamiliar coworkers chatting. One talked about her and her husband's love of cars, then shrugged off the cost, given that hers is "not that bad, it's only a Lexus" ...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1078 on: November 19, 2013, 09:04:59 AM »
I guess it's not an old one from 1992 with 200.000 miles, is it?

I have to drive a rented car 300km tomorrow to go to a stupid meeting and I have to stay in a hotel afterwards. I would have taken the train and slept over at a friends house. Would be more fun and save company money. Well I'm not allowed to for some tax law bullshit...

mgreczyn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1079 on: November 19, 2013, 09:10:42 AM »
I guess we know where our raise went.

Sounds like bullshit. If you believe your current pay grade is unfair, it may be time to start circulating your resume.
And I have been.  I mean, I've hired 3 engineers in the last couple of years who are at my level but without the years of experience in our particular industry.  The going rate?  Apparently $12k to $40k more than I am getting paid.

Yes, I'm looking.  But I'm also picky.

That's rough but I feel like I'm missing something.  Do you have a poor relationship with your boss?  I feel like when hiring those new engineers you could have raised the issue of engineer retention.  Maybe give your boss your resume and mention that this guy looks pretty good and should probably earn market rate.

No kidding.  Say you've got a GREAT deal for him.  He can raise your salary to the market rate and save himself the expense of having to find a new employee and then pay that person market rate.  It's a win-win.

mgreczyn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1080 on: November 19, 2013, 09:26:48 AM »
For instance, the city of Philadelphia - if I worked in the city, there is no way I would move closer to work (i.e.: in the city) with kids.  The school system is a joke right now. 
Personally, I'd rather control my spending, save more money and be able to buy a house in a suburb that has a decent commute (AND decent schools, for that matter, which is definitely possible in my city where my coworkers live - I can't comment on other cities or countries). But that requires long term thinking and the ability to resist instant gratification, which I've noticed are skills lacking amongst my peer group.

Third option: live in the city, have one cheap car instead of two expensive ones, and use what you save on car payments, gas, insurance and gym memberships (not needed if you're biking/walking everywhere) to cover or help cover your kids' tuition at a private school.

Or live in the city and send your kids to a good charter or magnet school.

Maybe I just shy away from feeling permanently locked into something that might not turn out to be right for me/us, but I've never understood why people spend a ton to buy houses in X suburb "because of the schools" when generally speaking, at least in most American/European/Canadian cities, there are good options other than your default neighborhood public schools. I'd rather have a cheaper house and the ability to choose between various schools (some free--charter and magnet schools--some not).
That MIGHT do it, but I think you have a few things backwards.  For example, houses in town tend to be much more expensive than houses in suburbs these days.  Roads that I felt completely safe biking as an invincible 30-something guy took on a whole different character when I became a protective 30-something dad with a trailer carrying the most important person on earth behind me.  Your take on the school situation SOUNDS OK until you actually make contact with the school system and all your carefully crafted plans disintegrate against enemy tactics such as school choice, part time pre-schools with no busing, gerrymandered school districts, etc. 

We recently moved from downtown Denver to a suburb-like area to be closer to a job and got a much better deal in terms of house, schools, bikebility / walkability and overall COL and QOL.  We sold a 900 sqf bungalow in town for the same price we bought a 2500 sqf house for in the "country", daycare cost went down by $50 per week, public school buses our daughter to and from daycare (this is a HUGE logistics win compared to what similarly situated friends in the city deal with) and we can safely walk or bike to 90% of our non-work activities. Groceries, services, etc. everything just got way cheaper, to the tune of about $1000 a month. This is just my opinion of course, and only based on my observations of a few cities, but downtown areas seem to be really awesome for singles, divorcees, couples without kids and empty nesters.  Bring kids into the equation and it gets... complicated.

Undecided

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1081 on: November 19, 2013, 12:23:49 PM »
Roads that I felt completely safe biking as an invincible 30-something guy took on a whole different character when I became a protective 30-something dad with a trailer carrying the most important person on earth behind me. 

After many years of racing bikes and training approximately 1,000 hours/year on the road, I really didn't think much about traffic risk (which is not to say I wasn't extremely aware while riding, just that it wasn't something I gave any consideration too in a big-picture sense, even having been hit by cars on two occasions). And so I didn't think about it when my first-born, at seven months, started going on training rides with me, mostly sleeping in his trailer. But then I noticed that after years of not expecting good behavior from drivers (but not being much bothered by their bad behavior), I suddenly had a powerful tool for causing virtually all drivers to be reasonable, maybe even careful! I was no longer some a** in a superhero costume, I was a Dad Riding With His Child, and I deserved respect, not indifference! (What bothered me most was the suspicion that this difference in treatment revealed that all the people who "just didn't see" me when it was just me out there actually did see me, but really couldn't be bothered to be reasonable. I can't be 100% sure of that, though, because a trailer with a flag does seem like it would increase visibility.) So, try riding with the trailer sans kiddo on the routes that might concern you, and pay close attention to how drivers treat you, then decide whether you're still uncomfortable.

mgreczyn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1082 on: November 19, 2013, 12:29:52 PM »
Roads that I felt completely safe biking as an invincible 30-something guy took on a whole different character when I became a protective 30-something dad with a trailer carrying the most important person on earth behind me. 

After many years of racing bikes and training approximately 1,000 hours/year on the road, I really didn't think much about traffic risk (which is not to say I wasn't extremely aware while riding, just that it wasn't something I gave any consideration too in a big-picture sense, even having been hit by cars on two occasions). And so I didn't think about it when my first-born, at seven months, started going on training rides with me, mostly sleeping in his trailer. But then I noticed that after years of not expecting good behavior from drivers (but not being much bothered by their bad behavior), I suddenly had a powerful tool for causing virtually all drivers to be reasonable, maybe even careful! I was no longer some a** in a superhero costume, I was a Dad Riding With His Child, and I deserved respect, not indifference! (What bothered me most was the suspicion that this difference in treatment revealed that all the people who "just didn't see" me when it was just me out there actually did see me, but really couldn't be bothered to be reasonable. I can't be 100% sure of that, though, because a trailer with a flag does seem like it would increase visibility.) So, try riding with the trailer sans kiddo on the routes that might concern you, and pay close attention to how drivers treat you, then decide whether you're still uncomfortable.
Hmm.  Given that I've already moved and would thus be spending large amounts of time and money driving with my toddler, bike and trailer to an area where I have little need to go in order to conduct this experiment, I will relegate myself to mentally simulating the experience while quaffing an ale.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1083 on: November 19, 2013, 12:40:09 PM »
Roads that I felt completely safe biking as an invincible 30-something guy took on a whole different character when I became a protective 30-something dad with a trailer carrying the most important person on earth behind me. 

After many years of racing bikes and training approximately 1,000 hours/year on the road, I really didn't think much about traffic risk (which is not to say I wasn't extremely aware while riding, just that it wasn't something I gave any consideration too in a big-picture sense, even having been hit by cars on two occasions). And so I didn't think about it when my first-born, at seven months, started going on training rides with me, mostly sleeping in his trailer. But then I noticed that after years of not expecting good behavior from drivers (but not being much bothered by their bad behavior), I suddenly had a powerful tool for causing virtually all drivers to be reasonable, maybe even careful! I was no longer some a** in a superhero costume, I was a Dad Riding With His Child, and I deserved respect, not indifference! (What bothered me most was the suspicion that this difference in treatment revealed that all the people who "just didn't see" me when it was just me out there actually did see me, but really couldn't be bothered to be reasonable. I can't be 100% sure of that, though, because a trailer with a flag does seem like it would increase visibility.) So, try riding with the trailer sans kiddo on the routes that might concern you, and pay close attention to how drivers treat you, then decide whether you're still uncomfortable.
Hmm.  Given that I've already moved and would thus be spending large amounts of time and money driving with my toddler, bike and trailer to an area where I have little need to go in order to conduct this experiment, I will relegate myself to mentally simulating the experience while quaffing an ale.

Oops. But enjoy the beer; I think you can get some decent beers in Colorado (from Oregon ...), right?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1084 on: November 19, 2013, 12:44:07 PM »
I don't have kids, but now I'm considering a baby trailer for my groceries.

Christof

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1085 on: November 20, 2013, 05:16:32 PM »
I have to drive a rented car 300km tomorrow to go to a stupid meeting and I have to stay in a hotel afterwards. I would have taken the train and slept over at a friends house. Would be more fun and save company money. Well I'm not allowed to for some tax law bullshit...

That's weird. I have to tell my employees to take the train, because taking the train is traveling time whereas driving is work time, even if they drive nonetheless. Work time is limited to 10 hours a day including a 45 minute break. It's quite expensive to require an employee to work more than 10 hours; up to 15,000 Euros fine per incident.

With regard to tax laws: That depends on wether you or your friend wanted to be compensated for the stay. That is indeed more difficult as you need a valid invoice from a business to deduct expenses.

Half-Borg

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1086 on: November 21, 2013, 02:09:27 AM »
I didn't ask for compensation and wouldn't expect to get one. The tax stuff is that what I got told, maybe it's more company policy or it's just her being inflexible.
Driving sure is work time, but I don't clock hours so it doesn't matter anyway.

mgarl10024

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1087 on: November 21, 2013, 02:12:45 AM »
I just had brunch with my uncle...
...He was telling me that he wasn't going to retire until age 68 because he couldn't afford to earlier.
...I think I once calculated it based on something he said to be approximately 230k per year. What's he spent all that money on??

brunches?  :-)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1088 on: November 21, 2013, 11:20:45 AM »
Workmate: Every time I travel overseas I buy at least ten pairs of shoes and at least ten new outfits!
Me: But you travel overseas several times a year, how do you wear so many outfits?
Workmate: Oh, I don't. I buy them and never wear them. I have crates and crates of shoes in my house that I've never worn. My husband thinks I'm mad. But shopping makes me happy!
Me: But doesn't it only make you happy for the five minutes you spend buying the shoes? If you're not wearing them, how can owning them make you happy?
Workmate: Well, some people like to decorate their house, and some people like to play sport. I like shopping! It's my hobby and it makes me happy even if I never wear what I buy.

:-(

That's f*cked up!

I'm just catching up, but I agree. She keeps her crates full of shoes right next to the bodies.
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Albert

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1089 on: November 21, 2013, 11:36:04 AM »

That's weird. I have to tell my employees to take the train, because taking the train is traveling time whereas driving is work time, even if they drive nonetheless. Work time is limited to 10 hours a day including a 45 minute break. It's quite expensive to require an employee to work more than 10 hours; up to 15,000 Euros fine per incident.

You only can't require them to work more than 10 hours or are they also not allowed to do so voluntarily?

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1090 on: November 21, 2013, 03:13:34 PM »

That's weird. I have to tell my employees to take the train, because taking the train is traveling time whereas driving is work time, even if they drive nonetheless. Work time is limited to 10 hours a day including a 45 minute break. It's quite expensive to require an employee to work more than 10 hours; up to 15,000 Euros fine per incident.

You only can't require them to work more than 10 hours or are they also not allowed to do so voluntarily?

Probably both.  I'd say Germany is crazy, but there are some US government jobs with similar policies.  Of course in the US it's not about human rights but about budget (i.e., we have $X and can only pay you for Y hours.  It's illegal for you to work without compensation so don't work more than Y.)

mgreczyn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1091 on: November 21, 2013, 10:15:26 PM »
I didn't ask for compensation and wouldn't expect to get one. The tax stuff is that what I got told, maybe it's more company policy or it's just her being inflexible.
Driving sure is work time, but I don't clock hours so it doesn't matter anyway.
Seems you could let the company pay for the hotel room to get the tax break, but they can't exactly force you to sleep in it, now can they?

mgreczyn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1092 on: November 21, 2013, 10:19:13 PM »

That's weird. I have to tell my employees to take the train, because taking the train is traveling time whereas driving is work time, even if they drive nonetheless. Work time is limited to 10 hours a day including a 45 minute break. It's quite expensive to require an employee to work more than 10 hours; up to 15,000 Euros fine per incident.

You only can't require them to work more than 10 hours or are they also not allowed to do so voluntarily?

Probably both.  I'd say Germany is crazy, but there are some US government jobs with similar policies.  Of course in the US it's not about human rights but about budget (i.e., we have $X and can only pay you for Y hours.  It's illegal for you to work without compensation so don't work more than Y.)
There are also those jobs where for safety reasons you can't require more than a certain amount of work, i.e. pilots.  Of course, there are always those employers who find clever ways to squeeze more blood from the stone, and it's all fun and games until some exhausted soul drives a commuter plane into the ground. 

eyePod

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1093 on: November 22, 2013, 06:33:01 AM »
I didn't ask for compensation and wouldn't expect to get one. The tax stuff is that what I got told, maybe it's more company policy or it's just her being inflexible.
Driving sure is work time, but I don't clock hours so it doesn't matter anyway.

Maybe liability reasons?  I'm throwing darts here.  What would be really smart is to tell them you'll give them receipts.  Have your friend charge you $200 a night for Friend's Bed and Breakfast.  Then you get reimbursed afterwards!  Win win!
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Peanut Butter

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1094 on: November 22, 2013, 10:34:34 AM »
Quote:I'm considered a freak at work because when the other girls asked how many dresses I own, I said "way more than anyone needs, maybe even twenty or thirty".

Wtf? I did frocktober at work last year,different dress for each work day in October... I do have some ball/cocktail dresses I didn't wear, but I also had to raid my sisters closet and wore a skirt instead on at least one day... But I'm a top+bottoms kind of person, maybe I have an unreasonable amount of tops? Haven't counted yet. But I will. Also her shoes are too big :(

I echo your wtf. I have four. Including my wedding dress which is now far too big for me!

I'm gonna start asking people how many dresses they own!

I have about 5. Frocktober wouldn't last very long with me.

LOL I have two. They're the same dress, I just bought one in black for funerals and one in red for weddings. Those are the only two occasions they get worn.

I think I maybe spent $250 on clothes this year, but those were all cycling clothes. The hospital I work for provides scrubs, so I save on laundry too!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1095 on: November 22, 2013, 11:46:36 AM »
One of my exes had a rather Anti-Mustaschian world -

1) His mother once announced to a large dinner group, "When we got married, I told (his father) that we'd always have a jewelry note and a car note, and that he should get used to that!"  She felt like she was humoring him by only upgrading her car every other year.  She drove a large Ford truck with leather interior.

2) His parents (she worked at a university, he was high up in the hierarchy of a bank) took out a loan to pay for the younger sister's large and fancy wedding because they felt like that was required.
 
3) I was friends with the fiancee of one of his friends.  The woman was talking about their wedding preparations and how they were paying for the event themselves (especially since the wedding for her first marriage was extremely expensive >$40K).  She talked about how financially responsible she was.  She had convinced him to sell the boat he never used.  On the other hand, their wedding was a 200+ person fancy deal at a fancy hotel.  She was a schoolteacher, marrying a police officer, who drove a newish Mercedes SUV.

4) That Christmas, she had surprised him by buying a brand new massive diesel truck to replace his newish non diesel truck.  He bought her a large Louis Vuitton purse.  The women at the table ooh'd and aah'd in appreciation but then gave him a hard time for not buying the matching wallet.

2 years after the relationship, I'm still somewhat confused as to the purpose of buying a wallet that matches your purse...
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Christof

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1096 on: November 22, 2013, 03:01:07 PM »
You only can't require them to work more than 10 hours or are they also not allowed to do so voluntarily?

No, they aren't allowed to, but it would be my fault if they did... There are exceptions such as national emergencies, tough: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bundesrecht/arbzg/gesamt.pdf

Bigote

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1097 on: November 25, 2013, 07:29:35 AM »
Talking to a couple of former co-workers.  Both probably earn high 6 figures, maybe very low 7.

Guy #1 was talking about various trips he's taken to high-end resorts in the carribean and Mexico.  Guy #2 asks 'Have you ever been to any of the Club Med properties?'

Guy #1 says "No, something about those all inclusives, I think they attract a type of person who's seeking value, you know what I mean?  Like, 'wow, I can eat as much as I want at the buffet!'  That's not really the scene we're looking for"

 

ArcticaMT6

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1098 on: November 25, 2013, 10:17:27 AM »
Talking to a couple of former co-workers.  Both probably earn high 6 figures, maybe very low 7.

Guy #1 was talking about various trips he's taken to high-end resorts in the carribean and Mexico.  Guy #2 asks 'Have you ever been to any of the Club Med properties?'

Guy #1 says "No, something about those all inclusives, I think they attract a type of person who's seeking value, you know what I mean?  Like, 'wow, I can eat as much as I want at the buffet!'  That's not really the scene we're looking for"

 

To be fair, I didn't care for the all inclusive places I've stayed at, either. The food sucked, I don't really drink much alcohol, and the entire clientele was basically people in their 20's and 30's just getting wasted off of the "free" booze and lay at the pool all day. Boring.

Bigote

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #1099 on: November 25, 2013, 10:57:37 AM »
To be fair, I didn't care for the all inclusive places I've stayed at, either. The food sucked, I don't really drink much alcohol, and the entire clientele was basically people in their 20's and 30's just getting wasted off of the "free" booze and lay at the pool all day. Boring.


Maybe he had a point - I've never been to one, but what really turns me off is the notion that you go somewhere with the intention of never leaving the hotel.

Anyway what struck me about his comment is that I understand (perhaps incorrectly) Club Med to be a pretty pricey affair, thus the idea that these were the 'value seekers' sounded odd to me.