Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 6045003 times)

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18900 on: October 09, 2017, 11:48:28 AM »
scared that she won't be able to make mortgage payments even though she's been paying rent on time for 30 years now.

You know, I've never really understood that fear. If you miss rent you could get kicked out immediately. If you miss a mortgage payment you have time required by law and a bank that really wants to work with you because banks don't want to own houses. There are some sleazy banks out there, but generally, they will work with you first. Obviously credit gets hit both ways, but wouldn't having a house be better in that scenario?
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zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18901 on: October 09, 2017, 12:25:11 PM »
scared that she won't be able to make mortgage payments even though she's been paying rent on time for 30 years now.

You know, I've never really understood that fear. If you miss rent you could get kicked out immediately. If you miss a mortgage payment you have time required by law and a bank that really wants to work with you because banks don't want to own houses. There are some sleazy banks out there, but generally, they will work with you first. Obviously credit gets hit both ways, but wouldn't having a house be better in that scenario?
Banks REALLY don't want to own houses.  Typically (from what I've seen) you have several months, if not a full year, before you have to worry about foreclosure and eviction.  And being late on a payment doesn't even necessarily mean you'll get a ding on your credit history.  There's been a couple times in the last 5 years where DW or I was late making the monthly payment, but nothing ever showed up on the credit report.

firelight

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18902 on: October 09, 2017, 10:49:37 PM »
I doubt people like this admit it to themselves while they are in law school or whatever.  The fact that ex-boss' wife told me she quit her high paying lawyer job as soon as she peed on a stick (or just afterwards) kind of seemed nuts as former boss was always complaining about the millstone of their combined law school loans around his neck.  I had bad morning sickness when she told me this and other health issues but was showing up at work each day anyway and doing my best while ducking to the bathrooms to barf during meetings. 

These kinds of perceptions are just one more cross us working women have to bear.
I hate such people too. Two of my co-workers (married to each other) got pregnant. The wife quit the next day to 'take care of baby'. And we are stuck with the husband complaining of loans and debt and target runs and toys.

I'm all for people staying home if they want to. But please don't complain or compare with others. And my sil was training to be a dentist when she got pregnant and became a sahm. The loans were from that period. She claims being a dentist and a mom are mutually exclusive

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18903 on: October 10, 2017, 01:26:08 AM »
I'm all for people staying home if they want to. But please don't complain or compare with others. And my sil was training to be a dentist when she got pregnant and became a sahm. The loans were from that period. She claims being a dentist and a mom are mutually exclusive

Hm... I think I have to tell that my dentist the next time. He and his wife are working together (one left side rooms, one right side rooms), and I think they have 2 children.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18904 on: October 10, 2017, 02:02:23 AM »
Agreed. But a lot of drivers aren't reasonable. And then the cyclist is dead or badly injured. Is it worth that just to be right regarding fault? If cyclists were interested in their own safety they would assume all drivers are unreasonable and refrain from riding two abreast where they can't be overtaken. I mean, I have the right to cross the road at a crossing, but I'm still going to look both ways before I do! Because I'm the one that's going to bear the consequences.

You're one step removed from blaming rape victims for wearing skirts, I suggest you reconsider your victim blaming perspective.

If cyclists choose to ride side by side (and there are a number of reasons this might be appropriate) then they should be able to do so freely and without judgement.

I'm not victim blaming. Absolutely the car is at fault. I'm saying that I run MY life by taking more care when I'M the one that will bear the consequences. That's reality. To go back to your rape victim blaming example (which I think is in quite poor taste, frankly), I should be able to walk around naked without being attacked by some freak. But that's not very bloody likely so I think I'll wear clothing..... If I get hit by a car, I'll be a tad more screwed up than the car driver so I take care crossing the road. Even at a crossing. See how that works?

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18905 on: October 10, 2017, 02:10:05 AM »
I doubt people like this admit it to themselves while they are in law school or whatever.  The fact that ex-boss' wife told me she quit her high paying lawyer job as soon as she peed on a stick (or just afterwards) kind of seemed nuts as former boss was always complaining about the millstone of their combined law school loans around his neck.  I had bad morning sickness when she told me this and other health issues but was showing up at work each day anyway and doing my best while ducking to the bathrooms to barf during meetings. 

These kinds of perceptions are just one more cross us working women have to bear.

Um.... feminism, the movement that gave you the ability to BE a professional woman, is about choice. A woman's choice to be a stay at home mum is just as valid as a woman's choice to be a working mum, or to choose not to have children, or any other of the thousand choices we can now make. What's important is that we have the choice. Even 60 years ago, we didn't. Don't judge other women for making a choice that you would not make. Just celebrate the fact that they can make it.

And, yes, menimisn is starting to give men the choice to be a stay at home dad too!

farfromfire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18906 on: October 10, 2017, 03:36:09 AM »
My coworker is in his mid 30s and has been living on his own for ~10 years.

CW: Want to go out for lunch?
Me:  No thanks, I already ate.
CW: Oh, you eat out before work?
Me:  Nope, ate at home.
CW: What, like pasta?
Me:  Among other things.
CW: Yeah, sometimes I think I should make a pot of spaghetti at home for dinner, eating out 3x a day is expensive and not so healthy. But I don't have the time to go shopping.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18907 on: October 10, 2017, 03:51:02 AM »
My coworker is in his mid 30s and has been living on his own for ~10 years.

CW: Want to go out for lunch?
Me:  No thanks, I already ate.
CW: Oh, you eat out before work?
Me:  Nope, ate at home.
CW: What, like pasta?
Me:  Among other things.
CW: Yeah, sometimes I think I should make a pot of spaghetti at home for dinner, eating out 3x a day is expensive and not so healthy. But I don't have the time to go shopping.

Hmm. Eating out also costs time.

farfromfire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18908 on: October 10, 2017, 04:00:47 AM »
My coworker is in his mid 30s and has been living on his own for ~10 years.

CW: Want to go out for lunch?
Me:  No thanks, I already ate.
CW: Oh, you eat out before work?
Me:  Nope, ate at home.
CW: What, like pasta?
Me:  Among other things.
CW: Yeah, sometimes I think I should make a pot of spaghetti at home for dinner, eating out 3x a day is expensive and not so healthy. But I don't have the time to go shopping.

Hmm. Eating out also costs time.
Not only that, but he must be the slowest-eating person I have ever met, a burrito or kebap lunch is a 1 hour affair. I have no idea how he finds time for that 3x a day.

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18909 on: October 10, 2017, 06:58:56 AM »
My coworker is in his mid 30s and has been living on his own for ~10 years.

CW: Want to go out for lunch?
Me:  No thanks, I already ate.
CW: Oh, you eat out before work?
Me:  Nope, ate at home.
CW: What, like pasta?
Me:  Among other things.
CW: Yeah, sometimes I think I should make a pot of spaghetti at home for dinner, eating out 3x a day is expensive and not so healthy. But I don't have the time to go shopping.

Hmm. Eating out also costs time.
Not only that, but he must be the slowest-eating person I have ever met, a burrito or kebap lunch is a 1 hour affair. I have no idea how he finds time for that 3x a day.

I'm convinced that I spend less time on food/cooking than people who eat out. At least where I work, many people drive 3 miles each direction to get fast food. Plus waiting in the drive through. While I spend a few hours on Sunday and have food for 5 days. It could be less than an hour if I bought more canned stuff versus fresh veggies/dry beans and used a slow cooker.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18910 on: October 10, 2017, 07:25:19 AM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.

farfromfire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18911 on: October 10, 2017, 09:10:07 AM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18912 on: October 10, 2017, 09:32:03 AM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

That's phenomenal. Generally groceries take me at least two hours, even if the available stores are only 5 to 15 minutes away by car. That's because the products are scattered higgledy-piggledy all over the store, deliberately, so you have to hunt for them and spend more time picking through things you don't need, don't want, and have no intention of buying. The cash registers are mostly unoccupied because Wal-Mart doesn't believe in human staff, the DIY checkout counters are invariably bogged down because the chip card readers are fragile and broken or someone is trying to buy alcohol, cigarettes, a R-rated DVD, something related to birth control, razor blades, or something else that requires professional help. It takes me 30-40 minutes just to get through the checkout line! That's why I refuse to go grocery shopping more than once a week. My daughter still doesn't understand why I can't "JUST slip out to the grocery store on the way home from work because it's NO BIG DEAL" on a daily or near-daily basis. Each such slippage takes more than an hour of my time, and she's unwilling to help with the shopping process since it's not something that interests her and she doesn't think it's an effective use of her time, which she considers to be far more valuable than mine. So she refuses to write down the things she wants onto a grocery list, when I ask if she has any special requests for food or toiletries she says "no, I don't need anything", and then a day later she bitches me out when I don't magically guess what she wants or needs, and throws a tantrum if I don't run out and get what she wants now-now-now. If I'm busy with something else and can't drop everything to run the errand for her immediately, she flies into a snit and runs around telling other people I don't support her and she "has to" buy everything she needs because I'm oh-so-cheap.

There used to be a grocery store about 3 miles from me, with well trained cashiers who had been doing their jobs for years and who knew what they were doing. But a Wal-Mart sleazed into the neighborhood despite having a super-center less than 2 miles away. They greased some palms with the liquor control board to get a booze-selling license the neighborhood didn't want them to have, and put the mom-and-pop place out of business because a sizable amount of their business depended on booze sales. So now although the "neighborhood market" is closer, it's basically a glorified convenience store and you have to go to at least two places to get groceries or else drive at least five or six miles out of the way. The groceries are Wal-Groceries, so basic things I need such as cheesecloth and the right kind of pectin simply aren't available anymore.

Other things that can't actually be successfully bought, but that are present in the grocery store, include most kinds of frozen food. When it thaws before you can get it through the checkout line, you can't buy things like ice cream. Well, you can put it in your cart, head for the checkout line, and by the time you physically get it out of the store it's liquid. If you try to go when the lines are shorter, there won't be any managers available to fix the invariable screw-up when the cashier forgets to cancel the order ahead of yours before beginning and needs a manager to override the mistake. Cashiers aren't given the authority to void transactions, and there's no way to page a manager because they're "roaming". So you, or someone ahead of you, has to wait until the manager finishes up a break, or a personal conversation, or something else. I've walked away from two Wal-marts in the past month and left groceries in the cart for return or on the conveyor belt, simply because after half an hour to 45 minutes of standing in line it was still simply impossible to check out. I haven't seen such retail inefficiency since I visited the USSR late in the Gorbachev administration. But the option of going somewhere else simply doesn't exist. Wal-Monopoly has that part of the city completely tied up and there simply aren't other places to get groceries.
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CptCool

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18913 on: October 10, 2017, 09:37:24 AM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

That's phenomenal. Generally groceries take me at least two hours, even if the available stores are only 5 to 15 minutes away by car. That's because the products are scattered higgledy-piggledy all over the store, deliberately, so you have to hunt for them and spend more time picking through things you don't need, don't want, and have no intention of buying. The cash registers are mostly unoccupied because Wal-Mart doesn't believe in human staff, the DIY checkout counters are invariably bogged down because the chip card readers are fragile and broken or someone is trying to buy alcohol, cigarettes, a R-rated DVD, something related to birth control, razor blades, or something else that requires professional help. It takes me 30-40 minutes just to get through the checkout line! That's why I refuse to go grocery shopping more than once a week. My daughter still doesn't understand why I can't "JUST slip out to the grocery store on the way home from work because it's NO BIG DEAL" on a daily or near-daily basis. Each such slippage takes more than an hour of my time, and she's unwilling to help with the shopping process since it's not something that interests her and she doesn't think it's an effective use of her time, which she considers to be far more valuable than mine. So she refuses to write down the things she wants onto a grocery list, when I ask if she has any special requests for food or toiletries she says "no, I don't need anything", and then a day later she bitches me out when I don't magically guess what she wants or needs, and throws a tantrum if I don't run out and get what she wants now-now-now. If I'm busy with something else and can't drop everything to run the errand for her immediately, she flies into a snit and runs around telling other people I don't support her and she "has to" buy everything she needs because I'm oh-so-cheap.

There used to be a grocery store about 3 miles from me, with well trained cashiers who had been doing their jobs for years and who knew what they were doing. But a Wal-Mart sleazed into the neighborhood despite having a super-center less than 2 miles away. They greased some palms with the liquor control board to get a booze-selling license the neighborhood didn't want them to have, and put the mom-and-pop place out of business because a sizable amount of their business depended on booze sales. So now although the "neighborhood market" is closer, it's basically a glorified convenience store and you have to go to at least two places to get groceries or else drive at least five or six miles out of the way. The groceries are Wal-Groceries, so basic things I need such as cheesecloth and the right kind of pectin simply aren't available anymore.

Other things that can't actually be successfully bought, but that are present in the grocery store, include most kinds of frozen food. When it thaws before you can get it through the checkout line, you can't buy things like ice cream. Well, you can put it in your cart, head for the checkout line, and by the time you physically get it out of the store it's liquid. If you try to go when the lines are shorter, there won't be any managers available to fix the invariable screw-up when the cashier forgets to cancel the order ahead of yours before beginning and needs a manager to override the mistake. Cashiers aren't given the authority to void transactions, and there's no way to page a manager because they're "roaming". So you, or someone ahead of you, has to wait until the manager finishes up a break, or a personal conversation, or something else. I've walked away from two Wal-marts in the past month and left groceries in the cart for return or on the conveyor belt, simply because after half an hour to 45 minutes of standing in line it was still simply impossible to check out. I haven't seen such retail inefficiency since I visited the USSR late in the Gorbachev administration. But the option of going somewhere else simply doesn't exist. Wal-Monopoly has that part of the city completely tied up and there simply aren't other places to get groceries.

Highly recommend Aldi. It sounds like if there's one that's within a 30min drive it may be quicker for you to do that. I'm usually in/out with a week or two of groceries in 15min.

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18914 on: October 10, 2017, 09:43:01 AM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

That's phenomenal. Generally groceries take me at least two hours, even if the available stores are only 5 to 15 minutes away by car. That's because the products are scattered higgledy-piggledy all over the store, deliberately, so you have to hunt for them and spend more time picking through things you don't need, don't want, and have no intention of buying. The cash registers are mostly unoccupied because Wal-Mart doesn't believe in human staff, the DIY checkout counters are invariably bogged down because the chip card readers are fragile and broken or someone is trying to buy alcohol, cigarettes, a R-rated DVD, something related to birth control, razor blades, or something else that requires professional help. It takes me 30-40 minutes just to get through the checkout line! That's why I refuse to go grocery shopping more than once a week. My daughter still doesn't understand why I can't "JUST slip out to the grocery store on the way home from work because it's NO BIG DEAL" on a daily or near-daily basis. Each such slippage takes more than an hour of my time, and she's unwilling to help with the shopping process since it's not something that interests her and she doesn't think it's an effective use of her time, which she considers to be far more valuable than mine. So she refuses to write down the things she wants onto a grocery list, when I ask if she has any special requests for food or toiletries she says "no, I don't need anything", and then a day later she bitches me out when I don't magically guess what she wants or needs, and throws a tantrum if I don't run out and get what she wants now-now-now. If I'm busy with something else and can't drop everything to run the errand for her immediately, she flies into a snit and runs around telling other people I don't support her and she "has to" buy everything she needs because I'm oh-so-cheap.

There used to be a grocery store about 3 miles from me, with well trained cashiers who had been doing their jobs for years and who knew what they were doing. But a Wal-Mart sleazed into the neighborhood despite having a super-center less than 2 miles away. They greased some palms with the liquor control board to get a booze-selling license the neighborhood didn't want them to have, and put the mom-and-pop place out of business because a sizable amount of their business depended on booze sales. So now although the "neighborhood market" is closer, it's basically a glorified convenience store and you have to go to at least two places to get groceries or else drive at least five or six miles out of the way. The groceries are Wal-Groceries, so basic things I need such as cheesecloth and the right kind of pectin simply aren't available anymore.

Other things that can't actually be successfully bought, but that are present in the grocery store, include most kinds of frozen food. When it thaws before you can get it through the checkout line, you can't buy things like ice cream. Well, you can put it in your cart, head for the checkout line, and by the time you physically get it out of the store it's liquid. If you try to go when the lines are shorter, there won't be any managers available to fix the invariable screw-up when the cashier forgets to cancel the order ahead of yours before beginning and needs a manager to override the mistake. Cashiers aren't given the authority to void transactions, and there's no way to page a manager because they're "roaming". So you, or someone ahead of you, has to wait until the manager finishes up a break, or a personal conversation, or something else. I've walked away from two Wal-marts in the past month and left groceries in the cart for return or on the conveyor belt, simply because after half an hour to 45 minutes of standing in line it was still simply impossible to check out. I haven't seen such retail inefficiency since I visited the USSR late in the Gorbachev administration. But the option of going somewhere else simply doesn't exist. Wal-Monopoly has that part of the city completely tied up and there simply aren't other places to get groceries.

Highly recommend Aldi. It sounds like if there's one that's within a 30min drive it may be quicker for you to do that. I'm usually in/out with a week or two of groceries in 15min.

I find that timing it right and planning is really important for getting in and out of a grocery store quickly. I switched from Sunday's to after work on Monday's and that cut my shopping time in half. If you're a meal planner like me then you can organize your list by what should be close together at the store (tomato sauces are usually near noodles & rice, bread is usually inexplicably near snack foods) that cuts down on a lot of time too. The grocery is one of those places you really get to know :) it causes irrational anger when they move things around.
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infogoon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18915 on: October 10, 2017, 09:49:04 AM »
That's because the products are scattered higgledy-piggledy all over the store, deliberately, so you have to hunt for them and spend more time picking through things you don't need, don't want, and have no intention of buying.

Honestly, even above and beyond the lower prices, this is one of the things I love about shopping at Aldi. The stores are so much smaller than the other local supermarkets; I can get in and out in fifteen minutes for a "picking up staples and produce" run.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18916 on: October 10, 2017, 10:19:26 AM »
My shopping list is written in the order that things are laid out in my regular supermarket.


Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

WTF? A post-lunch snack? A snack, for after lunch, which is a meal, at which food is consumed? Seriously? He should try eating actual nutrition for lunch and see if that makes a difference to hunger levels.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18917 on: October 10, 2017, 10:27:12 AM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

That's phenomenal. Generally groceries take me at least two hours, even if the available stores are only 5 to 15 minutes away by car. That's because the products are scattered higgledy-piggledy all over the store, deliberately, so you have to hunt for them and spend more time picking through things you don't need, don't want, and have no intention of buying. The cash registers are mostly unoccupied because Wal-Mart doesn't believe in human staff, the DIY checkout counters are invariably bogged down because the chip card readers are fragile and broken or someone is trying to buy alcohol, cigarettes, a R-rated DVD, something related to birth control, razor blades, or something else that requires professional help. It takes me 30-40 minutes just to get through the checkout line! That's why I refuse to go grocery shopping more than once a week. My daughter still doesn't understand why I can't "JUST slip out to the grocery store on the way home from work because it's NO BIG DEAL" on a daily or near-daily basis. Each such slippage takes more than an hour of my time, and she's unwilling to help with the shopping process since it's not something that interests her and she doesn't think it's an effective use of her time, which she considers to be far more valuable than mine. So she refuses to write down the things she wants onto a grocery list, when I ask if she has any special requests for food or toiletries she says "no, I don't need anything", and then a day later she bitches me out when I don't magically guess what she wants or needs, and throws a tantrum if I don't run out and get what she wants now-now-now. If I'm busy with something else and can't drop everything to run the errand for her immediately, she flies into a snit and runs around telling other people I don't support her and she "has to" buy everything she needs because I'm oh-so-cheap.

There used to be a grocery store about 3 miles from me, with well trained cashiers who had been doing their jobs for years and who knew what they were doing. But a Wal-Mart sleazed into the neighborhood despite having a super-center less than 2 miles away. They greased some palms with the liquor control board to get a booze-selling license the neighborhood didn't want them to have, and put the mom-and-pop place out of business because a sizable amount of their business depended on booze sales. So now although the "neighborhood market" is closer, it's basically a glorified convenience store and you have to go to at least two places to get groceries or else drive at least five or six miles out of the way. The groceries are Wal-Groceries, so basic things I need such as cheesecloth and the right kind of pectin simply aren't available anymore.

Other things that can't actually be successfully bought, but that are present in the grocery store, include most kinds of frozen food. When it thaws before you can get it through the checkout line, you can't buy things like ice cream. Well, you can put it in your cart, head for the checkout line, and by the time you physically get it out of the store it's liquid. If you try to go when the lines are shorter, there won't be any managers available to fix the invariable screw-up when the cashier forgets to cancel the order ahead of yours before beginning and needs a manager to override the mistake. Cashiers aren't given the authority to void transactions, and there's no way to page a manager because they're "roaming". So you, or someone ahead of you, has to wait until the manager finishes up a break, or a personal conversation, or something else. I've walked away from two Wal-marts in the past month and left groceries in the cart for return or on the conveyor belt, simply because after half an hour to 45 minutes of standing in line it was still simply impossible to check out. I haven't seen such retail inefficiency since I visited the USSR late in the Gorbachev administration. But the option of going somewhere else simply doesn't exist. Wal-Monopoly has that part of the city completely tied up and there simply aren't other places to get groceries.
that's horrible

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18918 on: October 10, 2017, 11:01:38 AM »
My shopping list is written in the order that things are laid out in my regular supermarket.


Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

WTF? A post-lunch snack? A snack, for after lunch, which is a meal, at which food is consumed? Seriously? He should try eating actual nutrition for lunch and see if that makes a difference to hunger levels.

I usually eat a few snap peas or whatever around 3pm each day so I don't find that too weird. But the phrasing here was funny. I imagine someone driving through McDonald's, eating the food, then stopping at Subway for the post-lunch meal.

What about second breakfast, right?
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lbmustache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18919 on: October 10, 2017, 11:51:19 AM »
My coworker is in his mid 30s and has been living on his own for ~10 years.

CW: Want to go out for lunch?
Me:  No thanks, I already ate.
CW: Oh, you eat out before work?
Me:  Nope, ate at home.
CW: What, like pasta?
Me:  Among other things.
CW: Yeah, sometimes I think I should make a pot of spaghetti at home for dinner, eating out 3x a day is expensive and not so healthy. But I don't have the time to go shopping.

Hmm x2. You could order online if time is really stretched that thin. Amazon has nearly identical prices to the grocery stores around here, especially for basics like pasta and sauce.

farfromfire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18920 on: October 10, 2017, 12:08:13 PM »
My coworker is in his mid 30s and has been living on his own for ~10 years.

CW: Want to go out for lunch?
Me:  No thanks, I already ate.
CW: Oh, you eat out before work?
Me:  Nope, ate at home.
CW: What, like pasta?
Me:  Among other things.
CW: Yeah, sometimes I think I should make a pot of spaghetti at home for dinner, eating out 3x a day is expensive and not so healthy. But I don't have the time to go shopping.

Hmm x2. You could order online if time is really stretched that thin. Amazon has nearly identical prices to the grocery stores around here, especially for basics like pasta and sauce.
3 of the 4 aforementioned supermarkets also offer online ordering with same day delivery if you order in the morning. Honestly, he's one of those people that are seemingly incapable of change, since he never had to shop or cook as a child he'll never be able to. I joke that if McDonald's ever shuts down, he'll die like Gödel.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18921 on: October 10, 2017, 12:11:10 PM »
Wal-Mart sounds like hell on Earth for grocery shopping. :(

farfromfire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18922 on: October 10, 2017, 12:14:56 PM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

That's phenomenal. Generally groceries take me at least two hours, even if the available stores are only 5 to 15 minutes away by car. That's because the products are scattered higgledy-piggledy all over the store, deliberately, so you have to hunt for them and spend more time picking through things you don't need, don't want, and have no intention of buying. The cash registers are mostly unoccupied because Wal-Mart doesn't believe in human staff, the DIY checkout counters are invariably bogged down because the chip card readers are fragile and broken or someone is trying to buy alcohol, cigarettes, a R-rated DVD, something related to birth control, razor blades, or something else that requires professional help. It takes me 30-40 minutes just to get through the checkout line! That's why I refuse to go grocery shopping more than once a week. My daughter still doesn't understand why I can't "JUST slip out to the grocery store on the way home from work because it's NO BIG DEAL" on a daily or near-daily basis. Each such slippage takes more than an hour of my time, and she's unwilling to help with the shopping process since it's not something that interests her and she doesn't think it's an effective use of her time, which she considers to be far more valuable than mine. So she refuses to write down the things she wants onto a grocery list, when I ask if she has any special requests for food or toiletries she says "no, I don't need anything", and then a day later she bitches me out when I don't magically guess what she wants or needs, and throws a tantrum if I don't run out and get what she wants now-now-now. If I'm busy with something else and can't drop everything to run the errand for her immediately, she flies into a snit and runs around telling other people I don't support her and she "has to" buy everything she needs because I'm oh-so-cheap.

There used to be a grocery store about 3 miles from me, with well trained cashiers who had been doing their jobs for years and who knew what they were doing. But a Wal-Mart sleazed into the neighborhood despite having a super-center less than 2 miles away. They greased some palms with the liquor control board to get a booze-selling license the neighborhood didn't want them to have, and put the mom-and-pop place out of business because a sizable amount of their business depended on booze sales. So now although the "neighborhood market" is closer, it's basically a glorified convenience store and you have to go to at least two places to get groceries or else drive at least five or six miles out of the way. The groceries are Wal-Groceries, so basic things I need such as cheesecloth and the right kind of pectin simply aren't available anymore.

Other things that can't actually be successfully bought, but that are present in the grocery store, include most kinds of frozen food. When it thaws before you can get it through the checkout line, you can't buy things like ice cream. Well, you can put it in your cart, head for the checkout line, and by the time you physically get it out of the store it's liquid. If you try to go when the lines are shorter, there won't be any managers available to fix the invariable screw-up when the cashier forgets to cancel the order ahead of yours before beginning and needs a manager to override the mistake. Cashiers aren't given the authority to void transactions, and there's no way to page a manager because they're "roaming". So you, or someone ahead of you, has to wait until the manager finishes up a break, or a personal conversation, or something else. I've walked away from two Wal-marts in the past month and left groceries in the cart for return or on the conveyor belt, simply because after half an hour to 45 minutes of standing in line it was still simply impossible to check out. I haven't seen such retail inefficiency since I visited the USSR late in the Gorbachev administration. But the option of going somewhere else simply doesn't exist. Wal-Monopoly has that part of the city completely tied up and there simply aren't other places to get groceries.

Highly recommend Aldi. It sounds like if there's one that's within a 30min drive it may be quicker for you to do that. I'm usually in/out with a week or two of groceries in 15min.

I find that timing it right and planning is really important for getting in and out of a grocery store quickly. I switched from Sunday's to after work on Monday's and that cut my shopping time in half. If you're a meal planner like me then you can organize your list by what should be close together at the store (tomato sauces are usually near noodles & rice, bread is usually inexplicably near snack foods) that cuts down on a lot of time too. The grocery is one of those places you really get to know :) it causes irrational anger when they move things around.
Some great responses!

TGS, it took me a while to adjust to shopping here in Vienna - many small supermarkets scattered all around, and kitchens+refrigerators are small as well, so instead of a hypermarket run once a month (~2 hours) you go to the small supermarket twice a week in ~10 min. This change has led me to eating way more fresh fruit, vegetables and meat which is nice.
On the negative side, this has led to me spontaneously running out to buy ice cream since it only takes 15min if the checkout like is short.

Hofer, which is the Austrian Aldi, is particularly amazing - in n out in under 10 min sometimes with 20 items.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18923 on: October 10, 2017, 12:14:15 PM »
Um.... feminism, the movement that gave you the ability to BE a professional woman, is about choice. A woman's choice to be a stay at home mum is just as valid as a woman's choice to be a working mum, or to choose not to have children, or any other of the thousand choices we can now make. What's important is that we have the choice. Even 60 years ago, we didn't. Don't judge other women for making a choice that you would not make. Just celebrate the fact that they can make it.

And, yes, menimisn is starting to give men the choice to be a stay at home dad too!

I wasn't judging her for being a stay at home parent. Plenty of my friends are SAHPs and, in fact, a huge number of people on this board are aspiring SAHPs.  But, since this is the Antimustachian Wall of Shame board, I was just pointing out that going into six figures worth of debt to get a professional degree from a prestigious university and then quitting after a couple of years is not exactly mustachian.  If you want to be a SAHP then don't go into huge amounts of debt expecting your spouse (male or female) to be chained to a job they don't enjoy to pay it back.  Or at least work for long enough to put a big dent in that student debt.

farfromfire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18924 on: October 10, 2017, 12:20:49 PM »
My shopping list is written in the order that things are laid out in my regular supermarket.


Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

WTF? A post-lunch snack? A snack, for after lunch, which is a meal, at which food is consumed? Seriously? He should try eating actual nutrition for lunch and see if that makes a difference to hunger levels.

I usually eat a few snap peas or whatever around 3pm each day so I don't find that too weird. But the phrasing here was funny. I imagine someone driving through McDonald's, eating the food, then stopping at Subway for the post-lunch meal.

What about second breakfast, right?
Lol to both of you.

to be fair it is a small breakfast, 2 Kaisersemmel rolls with coffee from McDonalds (WHY? There are equivalent rolls at the supermarket for 10% of the price). Lunch is large, real cafeteria food or some fast food. Post-lunch snack is a danish or two with coke, no idea about dinner.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 12:28:13 PM by farfromfire »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18925 on: October 10, 2017, 12:39:45 PM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

That's phenomenal. Generally groceries take me at least two hours, even if the available stores are only 5 to 15 minutes away by car...
DW leaves to go grocery shopping at Walmart at 6:00 am.  Including travel time, it usually takes about an hour.  She's on a first-name basis with the cashiers there.

Unfortunately, Walmart ended their price-matching policy, so now she has to make a second run to Aldi (usually for produce), and Aldi isn't open that early.  If they were, DW would have long ago started doing the bulk of her grocery shopping there.

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18926 on: October 10, 2017, 01:50:36 PM »
Wal-Mart sounds like hell on Earth for grocery shopping. :(
I started avoiding our local Walmart until they installed the self-checkout lanes (and a bunch of them at that).  It would just take too damn long to check out, 45+ minutes was not uncommon.  With the self-checkout, it's not bad at all, maybe waiting 10 minutes if it's super busy.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18927 on: October 10, 2017, 03:08:43 PM »
... bitching about Wal-Groceries...

Highly recommend Aldi. It sounds like if there's one that's within a 30min drive it may be quicker for you to do that. I'm usually in/out with a week or two of groceries in 15min.

I'd like to try Aldi's but according to their on-line tool the closest one to me is 473.27 miles away by air. That's a little more than the distance from London to Geneva, and a little less than the distance between Milan and Sarajevo.

The self-checkout lines work for mainstream items that don't require adult assistance, if and only if the receipt paper is filled regularly, the card-reader device is functional, and they're amply stocked with cash (for making change from cash transactions). None of those three assumptions is necessarily valid. New Mexico is like living in Ayn Rand's wet dream, but with more gun violence.
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horsepoor

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18928 on: October 10, 2017, 03:14:16 PM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.


That's phenomenal. Generally groceries take me at least two hours, even if the available stores are only 5 to 15 minutes away by car...
DW leaves to go grocery shopping at Walmart at 6:00 am.  Including travel time, it usually takes about an hour.  She's on a first-name basis with the cashiers there.

Unfortunately, Walmart ended their price-matching policy, so now she has to make a second run to Aldi (usually for produce), and Aldi isn't open that early.  If they were, DW would have long ago started doing the bulk of her grocery shopping there.


For a while I was in the habit of shopping at Winco on Saturday mornings.  If you can get there before 8 am, it's pretty much all middle-aged or older women doing their major shopping.  They aren't farting around, they're just on a mission to get their list and go; generally little to no wait for a checkstand.  It was kind of a nice routine, but now I shop at multiple stores and it varies a lot week to week.

ixtap

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18929 on: October 10, 2017, 03:20:07 PM »
... bitching about Wal-Groceries...

Highly recommend Aldi. It sounds like if there's one that's within a 30min drive it may be quicker for you to do that. I'm usually in/out with a week or two of groceries in 15min.

I'd like to try Aldi's but according to their on-line tool the closest one to me is 473.27 miles away by air. That's a little more than the distance from London to Geneva, and a little less than the distance between Milan and Sarajevo.

The self-checkout lines work for mainstream items that don't require adult assistance, if and only if the receipt paper is filled regularly, the card-reader device is functional, and they're amply stocked with cash (for making change from cash transactions). None of those three assumptions is necessarily valid. New Mexico is like living in Ayn Rand's wet dream, but with more gun violence.

I don't get Aldi's. The prepared food tends to be cheaper, but the ingredients tend to be more expensive. I can get pasta and milk consistently cheaper, often eggs as well.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18930 on: October 10, 2017, 03:38:22 PM »
I tend to go to the Jewel (Illinois equivalent to Safeway). I prefer to do my hopping at 9 or 10 AM, before the store gets really busy. I'm usually awake by 5:30, so no real struggle there.

It's well laid out and not big, so it's easy to navigate. On the other hand, they have limited SKUs, which puts the hurt on a few things, especially in the produce section. Can't find celery root or daikon there, for instance. No dashi, either.

frugledoc

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18931 on: October 10, 2017, 03:45:48 PM »
Today at work, was speaking to a colleague nearing retirement age.  We are both hospital doctors in the NHS, and were moaning a bit about management/hospital politics.

Him:  I can walk away at any time now, my mortgage is paid off and I don't need the money.  I feel sorry for your generation with big mortgages to pay and 2 kids.  Things are only going to get worse and you will have to just suck it up.

Me (in my mind only):  lol, I don't have a mortgage and have FU money.     Don't all consultants?

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18932 on: October 10, 2017, 03:59:31 PM »
I tend to go to the Jewel (Illinois equivalent to Safeway). I prefer to do my hopping at 9 or 10 AM, before the store gets really busy. I'm usually awake by 5:30, so no real struggle there.

It's well laid out and not big, so it's easy to navigate. On the other hand, they have limited SKUs, which puts the hurt on a few things, especially in the produce section. Can't find celery root or daikon there, for instance. No dashi, either.
Jewel is a weird grocery store.  It's smaller than Walmart/Meijer, so the selection is a little worse (for the most part - I can never find a head of red leaf lettuce at Walmart, but Jewel always has it), and the prices are a little higher (a lot higher on some things).  Their meat is worse than Walmart (at least their chicken - haven't gotten my beef/pork from a grocery store in a while because I'm a pretentious asshat) despite costing more money.  It's an odd mix of trying to be a cheap grocery store and trying to be Whole Foods.  They got rid of the self checkout sometime last year, so it's no longer reliably an efficient quick stop.

Meijer is probably my favorite grocery store in our area.  Good prices, just "fancy" enough to have a good selection of weird stuff I might be interested in, good quality produce/meat, well laid-out, and it has self checkout. 

I liked Shop and Save for a while, but I've gotten bad (bad as in rotten) meat from them so I just avoid it entirely.

Aldi's savings I find to not be worth the trip except occasionally.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18933 on: October 11, 2017, 12:12:00 AM »

..the mayority of people killed in an airplane accident are sitting inside an airplane does not automatically mean that airplanes are more dangerous then other vehicles.


No, it does not indeed!..  it means that the seats inside the airplane are more dangerous, statistically, than the seats on the outside of the airplane.


:0
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 12:13:46 AM by Goldielocks »

martyconlonontherun

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18934 on: October 11, 2017, 03:46:17 AM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

That's phenomenal. Generally groceries take me at least two hours, even if the available stores are only 5 to 15 minutes away by car. That's because the products are scattered higgledy-piggledy all over the store, deliberately, so you have to hunt for them and spend more time picking through things you don't need, don't want, and have no intention of buying. The cash registers are mostly unoccupied because Wal-Mart doesn't believe in human staff, the DIY checkout counters are invariably bogged down because the chip card readers are fragile and broken or someone is trying to buy alcohol, cigarettes, a R-rated DVD, something related to birth control, razor blades, or something else that requires professional help. It takes me 30-40 minutes just to get through the checkout line! That's why I refuse to go grocery shopping more than once a week. My daughter still doesn't understand why I can't "JUST slip out to the grocery store on the way home from work because it's NO BIG DEAL" on a daily or near-daily basis. Each such slippage takes more than an hour of my time, and she's unwilling to help with the shopping process since it's not something that interests her and she doesn't think it's an effective use of her time, which she considers to be far more valuable than mine. So she refuses to write down the things she wants onto a grocery list, when I ask if she has any special requests for food or toiletries she says "no, I don't need anything", and then a day later she bitches me out when I don't magically guess what she wants or needs, and throws a tantrum if I don't run out and get what she wants now-now-now. If I'm busy with something else and can't drop everything to run the errand for her immediately, she flies into a snit and runs around telling other people I don't support her and she "has to" buy everything she needs because I'm oh-so-cheap.

There used to be a grocery store about 3 miles from me, with well trained cashiers who had been doing their jobs for years and who knew what they were doing. But a Wal-Mart sleazed into the neighborhood despite having a super-center less than 2 miles away. They greased some palms with the liquor control board to get a booze-selling license the neighborhood didn't want them to have, and put the mom-and-pop place out of business because a sizable amount of their business depended on booze sales. So now although the "neighborhood market" is closer, it's basically a glorified convenience store and you have to go to at least two places to get groceries or else drive at least five or six miles out of the way. The groceries are Wal-Groceries, so basic things I need such as cheesecloth and the right kind of pectin simply aren't available anymore.

Other things that can't actually be successfully bought, but that are present in the grocery store, include most kinds of frozen food. When it thaws before you can get it through the checkout line, you can't buy things like ice cream. Well, you can put it in your cart, head for the checkout line, and by the time you physically get it out of the store it's liquid. If you try to go when the lines are shorter, there won't be any managers available to fix the invariable screw-up when the cashier forgets to cancel the order ahead of yours before beginning and needs a manager to override the mistake. Cashiers aren't given the authority to void transactions, and there's no way to page a manager because they're "roaming". So you, or someone ahead of you, has to wait until the manager finishes up a break, or a personal conversation, or something else. I've walked away from two Wal-marts in the past month and left groceries in the cart for return or on the conveyor belt, simply because after half an hour to 45 minutes of standing in line it was still simply impossible to check out. I haven't seen such retail inefficiency since I visited the USSR late in the Gorbachev administration. But the option of going somewhere else simply doesn't exist. Wal-Monopoly has that part of the city completely tied up and there simply aren't other places to get groceries.

Highly recommend Aldi. It sounds like if there's one that's within a 30min drive it may be quicker for you to do that. I'm usually in/out with a week or two of groceries in 15min.

I find that timing it right and planning is really important for getting in and out of a grocery store quickly. I switched from Sunday's to after work on Monday's and that cut my shopping time in half. If you're a meal planner like me then you can organize your list by what should be close together at the store (tomato sauces are usually near noodles & rice, bread is usually inexplicably near snack foods) that cuts down on a lot of time too. The grocery is one of those places you really get to know :) it causes irrational anger when they move things around.
Some great responses!

TGS, it took me a while to adjust to shopping here in Vienna - many small supermarkets scattered all around, and kitchens+refrigerators are small as well, so instead of a hypermarket run once a month (~2 hours) you go to the small supermarket twice a week in ~10 min. This change has led me to eating way more fresh fruit, vegetables and meat which is nice.
On the negative side, this has led to me spontaneously running out to buy ice cream since it only takes 15min if the checkout like is short.

Hofer, which is the Austrian Aldi, is particularly amazing - in n out in under 10 min sometimes with 20 items.

I'm from the Chicago region of the US but staying in Vienna on the weekend as part of a two-week work trip. Any suggestions for a 29-year old man with no plan, cheap, likes history, loves activity, and no language skills?

martyconlonontherun

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18935 on: October 11, 2017, 03:59:52 AM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

That's phenomenal. Generally groceries take me at least two hours, even if the available stores are only 5 to 15 minutes away by car. That's because the products are scattered higgledy-piggledy all over the store, deliberately, so you have to hunt for them and spend more time picking through things you don't need, don't want, and have no intention of buying. The cash registers are mostly unoccupied because Wal-Mart doesn't believe in human staff, the DIY checkout counters are invariably bogged down because the chip card readers are fragile and broken or someone is trying to buy alcohol, cigarettes, a R-rated DVD, something related to birth control, razor blades, or something else that requires professional help. It takes me 30-40 minutes just to get through the checkout line! That's why I refuse to go grocery shopping more than once a week. My daughter still doesn't understand why I can't "JUST slip out to the grocery store on the way home from work because it's NO BIG DEAL" on a daily or near-daily basis. Each such slippage takes more than an hour of my time, and she's unwilling to help with the shopping process since it's not something that interests her and she doesn't think it's an effective use of her time, which she considers to be far more valuable than mine. So she refuses to write down the things she wants onto a grocery list, when I ask if she has any special requests for food or toiletries she says "no, I don't need anything", and then a day later she bitches me out when I don't magically guess what she wants or needs, and throws a tantrum if I don't run out and get what she wants now-now-now. If I'm busy with something else and can't drop everything to run the errand for her immediately, she flies into a snit and runs around telling other people I don't support her and she "has to" buy everything she needs because I'm oh-so-cheap.

There used to be a grocery store about 3 miles from me, with well trained cashiers who had been doing their jobs for years and who knew what they were doing. But a Wal-Mart sleazed into the neighborhood despite having a super-center less than 2 miles away. They greased some palms with the liquor control board to get a booze-selling license the neighborhood didn't want them to have, and put the mom-and-pop place out of business because a sizable amount of their business depended on booze sales. So now although the "neighborhood market" is closer, it's basically a glorified convenience store and you have to go to at least two places to get groceries or else drive at least five or six miles out of the way. The groceries are Wal-Groceries, so basic things I need such as cheesecloth and the right kind of pectin simply aren't available anymore.

Other things that can't actually be successfully bought, but that are present in the grocery store, include most kinds of frozen food. When it thaws before you can get it through the checkout line, you can't buy things like ice cream. Well, you can put it in your cart, head for the checkout line, and by the time you physically get it out of the store it's liquid. If you try to go when the lines are shorter, there won't be any managers available to fix the invariable screw-up when the cashier forgets to cancel the order ahead of yours before beginning and needs a manager to override the mistake. Cashiers aren't given the authority to void transactions, and there's no way to page a manager because they're "roaming". So you, or someone ahead of you, has to wait until the manager finishes up a break, or a personal conversation, or something else. I've walked away from two Wal-marts in the past month and left groceries in the cart for return or on the conveyor belt, simply because after half an hour to 45 minutes of standing in line it was still simply impossible to check out. I haven't seen such retail inefficiency since I visited the USSR late in the Gorbachev administration. But the option of going somewhere else simply doesn't exist. Wal-Monopoly has that part of the city completely tied up and there simply aren't other places to get groceries.

I have some unsolicited advice and suggestions since I shop Walmart and sometimes i take an hour wandering down random because I look for new items that i can incorporate in my diet, but if I'm in a rush it isn't hard to get what you want.

1. How old is your daughter? The part about tantrums seems like a 5-year old, but the other part seems older. Personally, I could care less what she tells people if you have quality food at home. Anyone you care about knows you and knows you have edible food at home. Anyone else doesn't matter.

2. Even if you do care, I would imagine you get the same "Why don't we have?" and just check before you leave the house if you are stocked up? 90% of the stuff at walmart is storable for a few weeks so even if she doesn't eat it that week, it will be there next week.

3. If you only go once a week or every 2 weeks, why don't you just go at a crazy unusual time? Like Sunday 6AM or after 8PM. If you go on a sun/sat you are kind of asking for it to be busy.

4. Do you group your groceries together? All the fruit items are first (throw bananas, apples, carrots, sweet potatoes into the cart), follow that to the meat (throw in chicken, frozen fish, etc), then to dairy (throw in soy milk, greek yogurt, etc) go down frozen isle (frozen fruit and veggies, turkey patties, etc), Spaghetti isle and maybe 2-3 items from the processed food section and you have a full grocery list. Shouldn't really take that long unless you are unorganized. Yeah its annoying to walk to the back for milk, but in the grand scheme of things its 2 minutes extra and you grab stuff along the way. For me, it takes so long because the store is big, not necessarily the layout.

5. You should thank them for not letting you get ice cream and protecting your health :) But if you did get ice cream, I would think you would grab frozen stuff last. If you show at crazy times, it shouldn't be a problem getting through the line in 15 min.

pbkmaine

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18936 on: October 11, 2017, 05:48:41 AM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

That's phenomenal. Generally groceries take me at least two hours, even if the available stores are only 5 to 15 minutes away by car. That's because the products are scattered higgledy-piggledy all over the store, deliberately, so you have to hunt for them and spend more time picking through things you don't need, don't want, and have no intention of buying. The cash registers are mostly unoccupied because Wal-Mart doesn't believe in human staff, the DIY checkout counters are invariably bogged down because the chip card readers are fragile and broken or someone is trying to buy alcohol, cigarettes, a R-rated DVD, something related to birth control, razor blades, or something else that requires professional help. It takes me 30-40 minutes just to get through the checkout line! That's why I refuse to go grocery shopping more than once a week. My daughter still doesn't understand why I can't "JUST slip out to the grocery store on the way home from work because it's NO BIG DEAL" on a daily or near-daily basis. Each such slippage takes more than an hour of my time, and she's unwilling to help with the shopping process since it's not something that interests her and she doesn't think it's an effective use of her time, which she considers to be far more valuable than mine. So she refuses to write down the things she wants onto a grocery list, when I ask if she has any special requests for food or toiletries she says "no, I don't need anything", and then a day later she bitches me out when I don't magically guess what she wants or needs, and throws a tantrum if I don't run out and get what she wants now-now-now. If I'm busy with something else and can't drop everything to run the errand for her immediately, she flies into a snit and runs around telling other people I don't support her and she "has to" buy everything she needs because I'm oh-so-cheap.

There used to be a grocery store about 3 miles from me, with well trained cashiers who had been doing their jobs for years and who knew what they were doing. But a Wal-Mart sleazed into the neighborhood despite having a super-center less than 2 miles away. They greased some palms with the liquor control board to get a booze-selling license the neighborhood didn't want them to have, and put the mom-and-pop place out of business because a sizable amount of their business depended on booze sales. So now although the "neighborhood market" is closer, it's basically a glorified convenience store and you have to go to at least two places to get groceries or else drive at least five or six miles out of the way. The groceries are Wal-Groceries, so basic things I need such as cheesecloth and the right kind of pectin simply aren't available anymore.

Other things that can't actually be successfully bought, but that are present in the grocery store, include most kinds of frozen food. When it thaws before you can get it through the checkout line, you can't buy things like ice cream. Well, you can put it in your cart, head for the checkout line, and by the time you physically get it out of the store it's liquid. If you try to go when the lines are shorter, there won't be any managers available to fix the invariable screw-up when the cashier forgets to cancel the order ahead of yours before beginning and needs a manager to override the mistake. Cashiers aren't given the authority to void transactions, and there's no way to page a manager because they're "roaming". So you, or someone ahead of you, has to wait until the manager finishes up a break, or a personal conversation, or something else. I've walked away from two Wal-marts in the past month and left groceries in the cart for return or on the conveyor belt, simply because after half an hour to 45 minutes of standing in line it was still simply impossible to check out. I haven't seen such retail inefficiency since I visited the USSR late in the Gorbachev administration. But the option of going somewhere else simply doesn't exist. Wal-Monopoly has that part of the city completely tied up and there simply aren't other places to get groceries.

Highly recommend Aldi. It sounds like if there's one that's within a 30min drive it may be quicker for you to do that. I'm usually in/out with a week or two of groceries in 15min.

I find that timing it right and planning is really important for getting in and out of a grocery store quickly. I switched from Sunday's to after work on Monday's and that cut my shopping time in half. If you're a meal planner like me then you can organize your list by what should be close together at the store (tomato sauces are usually near noodles & rice, bread is usually inexplicably near snack foods) that cuts down on a lot of time too. The grocery is one of those places you really get to know :) it causes irrational anger when they move things around.
Some great responses!

TGS, it took me a while to adjust to shopping here in Vienna - many small supermarkets scattered all around, and kitchens+refrigerators are small as well, so instead of a hypermarket run once a month (~2 hours) you go to the small supermarket twice a week in ~10 min. This change has led me to eating way more fresh fruit, vegetables and meat which is nice.
On the negative side, this has led to me spontaneously running out to buy ice cream since it only takes 15min if the checkout like is short.

Hofer, which is the Austrian Aldi, is particularly amazing - in n out in under 10 min sometimes with 20 items.

I'm from the Chicago region of the US but staying in Vienna on the weekend as part of a two-week work trip. Any suggestions for a 29-year old man with no plan, cheap, likes history, loves activity, and no language skills?

https://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=Attractions&find_loc=Vienna%2C+Wien%2C+Austria&ns=1

Just walking around the Innere Stadt, which has so much history, will give you a lot to look at. It’s the area around St Stephan’s Cathedral, called “Stephansdom” in German.

farfromfire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18937 on: October 11, 2017, 06:55:29 AM »
I don't understand co-worker. Shopping takes the least amount of time in the home cooking process. I spend about 30-40 minutes on a grocery trip per week, tops. That's, like, one prepared meal.
Not only that, but there are 4 different supermarkets within a 5 min walk radius. I know he's aware of the concept since he sometimes goes to buy a post-lunch snack at the supermarket by work.

That's phenomenal. Generally groceries take me at least two hours, even if the available stores are only 5 to 15 minutes away by car. That's because the products are scattered higgledy-piggledy all over the store, deliberately, so you have to hunt for them and spend more time picking through things you don't need, don't want, and have no intention of buying. The cash registers are mostly unoccupied because Wal-Mart doesn't believe in human staff, the DIY checkout counters are invariably bogged down because the chip card readers are fragile and broken or someone is trying to buy alcohol, cigarettes, a R-rated DVD, something related to birth control, razor blades, or something else that requires professional help. It takes me 30-40 minutes just to get through the checkout line! That's why I refuse to go grocery shopping more than once a week. My daughter still doesn't understand why I can't "JUST slip out to the grocery store on the way home from work because it's NO BIG DEAL" on a daily or near-daily basis. Each such slippage takes more than an hour of my time, and she's unwilling to help with the shopping process since it's not something that interests her and she doesn't think it's an effective use of her time, which she considers to be far more valuable than mine. So she refuses to write down the things she wants onto a grocery list, when I ask if she has any special requests for food or toiletries she says "no, I don't need anything", and then a day later she bitches me out when I don't magically guess what she wants or needs, and throws a tantrum if I don't run out and get what she wants now-now-now. If I'm busy with something else and can't drop everything to run the errand for her immediately, she flies into a snit and runs around telling other people I don't support her and she "has to" buy everything she needs because I'm oh-so-cheap.

There used to be a grocery store about 3 miles from me, with well trained cashiers who had been doing their jobs for years and who knew what they were doing. But a Wal-Mart sleazed into the neighborhood despite having a super-center less than 2 miles away. They greased some palms with the liquor control board to get a booze-selling license the neighborhood didn't want them to have, and put the mom-and-pop place out of business because a sizable amount of their business depended on booze sales. So now although the "neighborhood market" is closer, it's basically a glorified convenience store and you have to go to at least two places to get groceries or else drive at least five or six miles out of the way. The groceries are Wal-Groceries, so basic things I need such as cheesecloth and the right kind of pectin simply aren't available anymore.

Other things that can't actually be successfully bought, but that are present in the grocery store, include most kinds of frozen food. When it thaws before you can get it through the checkout line, you can't buy things like ice cream. Well, you can put it in your cart, head for the checkout line, and by the time you physically get it out of the store it's liquid. If you try to go when the lines are shorter, there won't be any managers available to fix the invariable screw-up when the cashier forgets to cancel the order ahead of yours before beginning and needs a manager to override the mistake. Cashiers aren't given the authority to void transactions, and there's no way to page a manager because they're "roaming". So you, or someone ahead of you, has to wait until the manager finishes up a break, or a personal conversation, or something else. I've walked away from two Wal-marts in the past month and left groceries in the cart for return or on the conveyor belt, simply because after half an hour to 45 minutes of standing in line it was still simply impossible to check out. I haven't seen such retail inefficiency since I visited the USSR late in the Gorbachev administration. But the option of going somewhere else simply doesn't exist. Wal-Monopoly has that part of the city completely tied up and there simply aren't other places to get groceries.

Highly recommend Aldi. It sounds like if there's one that's within a 30min drive it may be quicker for you to do that. I'm usually in/out with a week or two of groceries in 15min.

I find that timing it right and planning is really important for getting in and out of a grocery store quickly. I switched from Sunday's to after work on Monday's and that cut my shopping time in half. If you're a meal planner like me then you can organize your list by what should be close together at the store (tomato sauces are usually near noodles & rice, bread is usually inexplicably near snack foods) that cuts down on a lot of time too. The grocery is one of those places you really get to know :) it causes irrational anger when they move things around.
Some great responses!

TGS, it took me a while to adjust to shopping here in Vienna - many small supermarkets scattered all around, and kitchens+refrigerators are small as well, so instead of a hypermarket run once a month (~2 hours) you go to the small supermarket twice a week in ~10 min. This change has led me to eating way more fresh fruit, vegetables and meat which is nice.
On the negative side, this has led to me spontaneously running out to buy ice cream since it only takes 15min if the checkout like is short.

Hofer, which is the Austrian Aldi, is particularly amazing - in n out in under 10 min sometimes with 20 items.

I'm from the Chicago region of the US but staying in Vienna on the weekend as part of a two-week work trip. Any suggestions for a 29-year old man with no plan, cheap, likes history, loves activity, and no language skills?
Cool!

Weather permitting:
* Walking along the canal
* Walking through the Prater central park
* Park Belvedere, along with the art museum inside (haven't been but heard great things)
* You can rent a bike for almost free from citybikewien.at (have to sign up with credit card) - free for under an hour, a few euros for a few hours so you can bike around town.
* Take a self-guided tour in the 1st district/Innere Stadt. Stephansdom is nice but beware of the annoying costumed dudes.
* There are "official" walks marked by the city, unfortunately the information is sparse and in German.

Vienna has some good museums but they cost a fair amount of money (>10 EUR) and there's enough to see for free outside as long as it's not raining heavily.

General tips:
* Most food in the 1st district is overpriced, in general restaurants aren't cheap but there are exceptions. Don't order anything you don't understand unless you are adventurous, I recently ate a pile of lungs doing just that.
* Beer on tap is nearly always between 3.5-4.9 EUR for 500ml
* Almost all "commercial" beer is good so not much of a craft scene, there is a nice craft beer bar in the 1st
* Public transportation is awesome and integrated into Google Maps

If you have time for a beer or a few PM me [29-year old man here too]. Same if you need bar/club/restaurant recommendations.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18938 on: October 11, 2017, 08:20:11 AM »
I tend to go to the Jewel (Illinois equivalent to Safeway). I prefer to do my hopping at 9 or 10 AM, before the store gets really busy. I'm usually awake by 5:30, so no real struggle there.

It's well laid out and not big, so it's easy to navigate. On the other hand, they have limited SKUs, which puts the hurt on a few things, especially in the produce section. Can't find celery root or daikon there, for instance. No dashi, either.
Jewel is a weird grocery store.  It's smaller than Walmart/Meijer, so the selection is a little worse (for the most part - I can never find a head of red leaf lettuce at Walmart, but Jewel always has it), and the prices are a little higher (a lot higher on some things).  Their meat is worse than Walmart (at least their chicken - haven't gotten my beef/pork from a grocery store in a while because I'm a pretentious asshat) despite costing more money.  It's an odd mix of trying to be a cheap grocery store and trying to be Whole Foods.  They got rid of the self checkout sometime last year, so it's no longer reliably an efficient quick stop.

Meijer is probably my favorite grocery store in our area.  Good prices, just "fancy" enough to have a good selection of weird stuff I might be interested in, good quality produce/meat, well laid-out, and it has self checkout. 

I liked Shop and Save for a while, but I've gotten bad (bad as in rotten) meat from them so I just avoid it entirely.

Aldi's savings I find to not be worth the trip except occasionally.

I haven't given Meijer's a shot. My Michigan friends love it, but it looks like a generic big box to me, and I've had negative opinions on the big boxes ever since I bought a pair of shoes that fell apart within 2 days.

Decent sales at Jewel happen often enough that I can hit all my essentials and not get much of a premium. A lot of the standard prices are ridiculous...the biggest annoyance for me is the lack of selection on certain things, and I also hate the meat section! My Dad is a butcher, though, so I get meat from him.

Also Jewel really saturates the market around me. we have 4 or 5 Jewels within 2 miles and nothing else besides a Mariano's. The Mariano's is much more difficult to navigate due to the way the outlots and traffic flow are set up.

Inaya

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18939 on: October 11, 2017, 08:44:36 AM »
I tend to go to the Jewel (Illinois equivalent to Safeway). I prefer to do my hopping at 9 or 10 AM, before the store gets really busy. I'm usually awake by 5:30, so no real struggle there.

It's well laid out and not big, so it's easy to navigate. On the other hand, they have limited SKUs, which puts the hurt on a few things, especially in the produce section. Can't find celery root or daikon there, for instance. No dashi, either.
Jewel is a weird grocery store.  It's smaller than Walmart/Meijer, so the selection is a little worse (for the most part - I can never find a head of red leaf lettuce at Walmart, but Jewel always has it), and the prices are a little higher (a lot higher on some things).  Their meat is worse than Walmart (at least their chicken - haven't gotten my beef/pork from a grocery store in a while because I'm a pretentious asshat) despite costing more money.  It's an odd mix of trying to be a cheap grocery store and trying to be Whole Foods.  They got rid of the self checkout sometime last year, so it's no longer reliably an efficient quick stop.

Meijer is probably my favorite grocery store in our area.  Good prices, just "fancy" enough to have a good selection of weird stuff I might be interested in, good quality produce/meat, well laid-out, and it has self checkout. 

I liked Shop and Save for a while, but I've gotten bad (bad as in rotten) meat from them so I just avoid it entirely.

Aldi's savings I find to not be worth the trip except occasionally.

I haven't given Meijer's a shot. My Michigan friends love it, but it looks like a generic big box to me, and I've had negative opinions on the big boxes ever since I bought a pair of shoes that fell apart within 2 days.

Decent sales at Jewel happen often enough that I can hit all my essentials and not get much of a premium. A lot of the standard prices are ridiculous...the biggest annoyance for me is the lack of selection on certain things, and I also hate the meat section! My Dad is a butcher, though, so I get meat from him.

Also Jewel really saturates the market around me. we have 4 or 5 Jewels within 2 miles and nothing else besides a Mariano's. The Mariano's is much more difficult to navigate due to the way the outlots and traffic flow are set up.
I love Meijer, but there aren't any anywhere near me. I really like Mariano's, but the nearest is a mile-ish away, and that's a pretty long way to carry groceries (I don't bike). I have a really awful Jewel two blocks from me (even worse than average, and it's like they actively work to make it worse), two Whole Foods within four blocks, and a Trader Joes three blocks away. Ideally, I avoid all four and shop at the Aldi and MarketPlace in Skokie. They're on my way home (Yellow Line), better prices than downtown for most things, and interesting/exotic ingredients. And dirt-cheap bulk spices. Can't really buy meat there, since it's an hour home from there, but I can get it elsewhere.
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mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18940 on: October 11, 2017, 09:07:11 AM »
A somewhat depressing discussion with a coworker yesterday.  I work at a startup, and we pretty much run out of money every 2 years. This is one of those years.  Each time it happens, it gets more and more iffy as to whether we will weather it.

I'm not sure why I stay, really, since all this means I've gotten 1 raise since 2011 and my pay is currently 76% of the median.  But I do have a great boss, so there's that.

We chatted about the lack of money and the possibility that
A: there might be layoffs, which seem to happen whenever we run out of money and
B: we might just go under this time

He asked if we needed my salary and I said "no, not really.  I mean, we used to, but my husband actually gets raises and bonuses.  It wouldn't be awesome, but we could handle it.  I also know a lot of people it town, so I could get a job.  Probably within 6 months. Might pay even less than this one, might not be a job that is climbing the ladder, but I'd be fine."

He mentioned it was different for him.  Which, of course.  At his age (later 50s) vs mine (later 40s), it's harder to get hired.  And he's the breadwinner.  He's also a great guy and awesome at his job.

Anyway, the whole conversation depressed me.

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18941 on: October 11, 2017, 09:48:17 AM »

Bringing back some orange foam, from maybe not even this thread.  There was discussion about leaving your car running while pumping gas...  Over the weekend I got some gas, and a police officer did the same, but kept his car running while he got his.  So I'm guessing it's at least legal to do.

Hello - PSA - Please never assume just because a police officer does something that it is legal. In this case, it's not illegal to refuel, but cops are humans - that means some of them are fucking amazing and some of them are criminal piece of shits. Never assume they are abiding by the regulations or laws in place.

Here in Georgia, it's illegal to text and drive - but not for cops. They are cooler than you and me.

firelight

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18942 on: October 11, 2017, 09:56:05 AM »
A somewhat depressing discussion with a coworker yesterday.  I work at a startup, and we pretty much run out of money every 2 years. This is one of those years.  Each time it happens, it gets more and more iffy as to whether we will weather it.

I'm not sure why I stay, really, since all this means I've gotten 1 raise since 2011 and my pay is currently 76% of the median.  But I do have a great boss, so there's that.

We chatted about the lack of money and the possibility that
A: there might be layoffs, which seem to happen whenever we run out of money and
B: we might just go under this time

He asked if we needed my salary and I said "no, not really.  I mean, we used to, but my husband actually gets raises and bonuses.  It wouldn't be awesome, but we could handle it.  I also know a lot of people it town, so I could get a job.  Probably within 6 months. Might pay even less than this one, might not be a job that is climbing the ladder, but I'd be fine."

He mentioned it was different for him.  Which, of course.  At his age (later 50s) vs mine (later 40s), it's harder to get hired.  And he's the breadwinner.  He's also a great guy and awesome at his job.

Anyway, the whole conversation depressed me.
That is depressing. Why is he in a startup if that is the case? He knows startups are way more risky and volatile. If he doesn't have a backup plan, why even be there?

iowajes

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18943 on: October 11, 2017, 10:12:59 AM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.

Tom Bri

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18944 on: October 11, 2017, 10:59:39 AM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.

Ah. But you have to COOK them. Horrors.
Seriously though, looking in our shared fridge at work on any given day you would see worse than this. Just the combined volume of crap (non) foods people eat. At least eggs have some food value.

rockstache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18945 on: October 11, 2017, 12:08:06 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.

Ah. But you have to COOK them. Horrors.
Seriously though, looking in our shared fridge at work on any given day you would see worse than this. Just the combined volume of crap (non) foods people eat. At least eggs have some food value.

It did not even occur to me upon reading the initial post that these were pre-cooked. I cannot believe that is a thing.

paddedhat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18946 on: October 11, 2017, 12:21:12 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.
.  The crazy part is that, if nobody buys the stupid priced eggs, you may not have the chance to buy eggs for a few cents each. We recently spoke with an employee of one of our regional mega egg factory farms. He is in charge of marketing things like Buffalo Wing flavored hard boiled eggs for a buck each, in a clear plastic refrigerator package. High profit items like this are literally keeping the lights on and the doors open when it comes to factory Ag. Eggs were a very, very low margin product, and now it's gotten to the point where there in no money to be made. Sadly, a delivery guy might roll a hand truck past you with six cases of $0.34 / dozen eggs and a few packs of prepared eggs. The handful of small packages and the few bucks in net profit they bring are the only think keeping that guy in a job. We have similar issues with small dairy farmers, many who have lost money in six of the last seven years

TreesBikesLove

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18947 on: October 11, 2017, 12:26:33 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.
.  The crazy part is that, if nobody buys the stupid priced eggs, you may not have the chance to buy eggs for a few cents each. We recently spoke with an employee of one of our regional mega egg factory farms. He is in charge of marketing things like Buffalo Wing flavored hard boiled eggs for a buck each, in a clear plastic refrigerator package. High profit items like this are literally keeping the lights on and the doors open when it comes to factory Ag. Eggs were a very, very low margin product, and now it's gotten to the point where there in no money to be made. Sadly, a delivery guy might roll a hand truck past you with six cases of $0.34 / dozen eggs and a few packs of prepared eggs. The handful of small packages and the few bucks in net profit they bring are the only think keeping that guy in a job. We have similar issues with small dairy farmers, many who have lost money in six of the last seven years

The economist in me thinks "These things have a tendency to work themselves out." If some farmers quit doing dairy and eggs because it's not profitable, the lower supply should raise prices and balance out the costs for the factory farms who remain.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18948 on: October 11, 2017, 12:42:23 PM »
A somewhat depressing discussion with a coworker yesterday.  I work at a startup, and we pretty much run out of money every 2 years. This is one of those years.  Each time it happens, it gets more and more iffy as to whether we will weather it.

I'm not sure why I stay, really, since all this means I've gotten 1 raise since 2011 and my pay is currently 76% of the median.  But I do have a great boss, so there's that.

We chatted about the lack of money and the possibility that
A: there might be layoffs, which seem to happen whenever we run out of money and
B: we might just go under this time

He asked if we needed my salary and I said "no, not really.  I mean, we used to, but my husband actually gets raises and bonuses.  It wouldn't be awesome, but we could handle it.  I also know a lot of people it town, so I could get a job.  Probably within 6 months. Might pay even less than this one, might not be a job that is climbing the ladder, but I'd be fine."

He mentioned it was different for him.  Which, of course.  At his age (later 50s) vs mine (later 40s), it's harder to get hired.  And he's the breadwinner.  He's also a great guy and awesome at his job.

Anyway, the whole conversation depressed me.
That is depressing. Why is he in a startup if that is the case? He knows startups are way more risky and volatile. If he doesn't have a backup plan, why even be there?
I'm guessing he was downsized at his last job.  We interview a lot of people in their mid-50s to mid-60s (and a large % of our work force is that age now, too).

Maybe not great for them (age discrimination sucks), but good for us because we need that expertise.

Inaya

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18949 on: October 11, 2017, 12:53:28 PM »
Just went and got lunch out of the fridge. In there is a store bought pack of hard boiled eggs (non-organic, I looked). 6 for $3.99

For comparison, I bought a dozen eggs for 34 cents.
I will admit to (and accept facepunches for) buying pre-boiled (and peeled!) eggs. I think they're a dozen for $4? I've done it during crazy weeks when I know having ready-made, effortless food on will be the difference between a healthy, inexpensive snack and ordering pizza. Granted, ever since I discovered you could steam eggs in the Instant Pot, I haven't done it much. And I currently have lots of home-made dinners in the freezer, so it'll probably be a long time before I do it again.

(Plus, I also buy fresh-from-the-chicken fancypants farmers market eggs for $6/doz on occasion, so $4 is a good deal in comparison.)
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