Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 5459484 times)

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18100 on: July 06, 2017, 01:50:14 AM »
Over the last month or so in the UK we've had a couple of "heatwaves" with temperatures sometimes reaching around 32°C (89°F). I arrived at work this morning to discover that a colleague had left a portable air conditioning unit on all night so that it wasn't too warm in the office when he walked in.

In our old office, someone once asked me not to turn the heating off on Friday night when I left, so it would still be turned on on Monday morning when they got in and they wouldn't have to wait for it to warm up.

I ignored them and turned the heating off anyway.
Well, sweating or freezing is probably not part of their job description and if the employer is to cheap to install time controlled heating, that's what he get.


AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18101 on: July 06, 2017, 03:33:55 AM »
Talking to a young chap (early twenties) at work about lottery tickets. I worked out for him that if he saved the $15 a week he was spending on tickets, just in an ordinary bank account at 3%, he would have around $22,000 by retirement age. First he was shocked that it was 'only' $22,000, and declared that he'd rather have nothing and the chance of winning the lottery. Then he thought I was making things up when I pointed out that his and my chance of winning said lottery, him with a ticket and me without, were the same to 7 decimal places ie zero. Another round of shock when I suggested that he might be living on $22,000 a YEAR when he retired. No way anyone can do that, apparently, not possible. And THEN he proceeded to tell me that my calculations were stupid and I must not know that much about money because he was getting 17.5% interest in his employee matched retirement savings fund. 17.5% is the tax rate he's on for the scheme..... but I guess he's enrolled in the scheme, so that's something, right? Although it probably because you have to opt out in NZ, not in, so his laziness got him on it.

I also got told off by a colleague for even having the conversation because it's his choice what he spends his money on - which of course it is, but clearly that choice is based on a bit of ignorance. Where are you supposed to learn this stuff if people don't tell you???

I only told 3 people about the option of early retirement. One is an old friend and colleague who is more frugal than me in many ways. Except for spending a lot of his saving on going to concerts. The second is a young colleague who already told us he was very good at saving. The third is a colleague who is approaching his last decade at work before normal retirement age. I got the impression from talking to him before that he is doing financially very well. I asked him why he didn't retire early. But he thinks sitting at home with his wife all day is not his idea of having a good time. So he choose to work long hours for 4 days a week, sleeping at the office, and having a long weekend every week, living 2 hours driving from work. Still making 40 hours a week.

I am not sure we need to teach everybody about it. I think the general population might not grab it anyway, they just like spending. We should perhaps focus on those who show some interest in the subject.

Yeah, should have kept my mouth shut but watching a kid spending his wages on lottery tickets is like watching a kid playing with matches - at what point are they old enough that you don't say something?? At least now he knows what the lottery odds actually are, and if wants to continue buying tickets, it's an informed choice. I won't be commenting on that.

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18102 on: July 06, 2017, 08:14:09 AM »
Talking to a young chap (early twenties) at work about lottery tickets. I worked out for him that if he saved the $15 a week he was spending on tickets, just in an ordinary bank account at 3%, he would have around $22,000 by retirement age. First he was shocked that it was 'only' $22,000, and declared that he'd rather have nothing and the chance of winning the lottery. Then he thought I was making things up when I pointed out that his and my chance of winning said lottery, him with a ticket and me without, were the same to 7 decimal places ie zero. Another round of shock when I suggested that he might be living on $22,000 a YEAR when he retired. No way anyone can do that, apparently, not possible. And THEN he proceeded to tell me that my calculations were stupid and I must not know that much about money because he was getting 17.5% interest in his employee matched retirement savings fund. 17.5% is the tax rate he's on for the scheme..... but I guess he's enrolled in the scheme, so that's something, right? Although it probably because you have to opt out in NZ, not in, so his laziness got him on it.

I also got told off by a colleague for even having the conversation because it's his choice what he spends his money on - which of course it is, but clearly that choice is based on a bit of ignorance. Where are you supposed to learn this stuff if people don't tell you???

I only told 3 people about the option of early retirement. One is an old friend and colleague who is more frugal than me in many ways. Except for spending a lot of his saving on going to concerts. The second is a young colleague who already told us he was very good at saving. The third is a colleague who is approaching his last decade at work before normal retirement age. I got the impression from talking to him before that he is doing financially very well. I asked him why he didn't retire early. But he thinks sitting at home with his wife all day is not his idea of having a good time. So he choose to work long hours for 4 days a week, sleeping at the office, and having a long weekend every week, living 2 hours driving from work. Still making 40 hours a week.

I am not sure we need to teach everybody about it. I think the general population might not grab it anyway, they just like spending. We should perhaps focus on those who show some interest in the subject.

Yeah, should have kept my mouth shut but watching a kid spending his wages on lottery tickets is like watching a kid playing with matches - at what point are they old enough that you don't say something?? At least now he knows what the lottery odds actually are, and if wants to continue buying tickets, it's an informed choice. I won't be commenting on that.
While this guy clearly hasn't his finances in order and I don't want to the gambling advocate here, I was also surprised that it's only $22,000. I guess you calculated with 20 years?
$22,000 might be a year of living expenses but won't save you from poverty. Also, with 3% you need to invest the money so the 22,000 aren't guaranteed in 20 years.
On the other hand, he buys himself 52*20=1040 dreams and micro-get-aways. So he's not getting nothing for his $15.

Also, his chances to win the jackpot are almost as slim as yours, but the jackpot is not the only prize. If the chances are similar to the German GlücksSpirale, he would buy 3 tickets and would have therefore every week the chance to win
10$ @ 3:10
20$ @ 3:100
...
100,000$ @ 6:1,000,000
2,000,000 @ 6:10,000,000

Of course, this is no wise investment, more a tax for those who are bad at math, but after 20 years he won't have nothing and every week he is getting something for his money, even if it is not worth $15 for you.

Acting like your (partly our) values should be universal is no good basis for a discussion. The German ZenDepot Blog had a great article about this.
Independence (as in FIRE) is only one of 16 basics needs according to Steven Reiss and for many Saving and Independence is simply not a priority.

Okay, now back to slamming those who aren't following the only true and right values!

I once had a colleague who bought a 1500€ gaming laptop to play the Sims. He also bought a 2000+€ Porsche bike. He wasn't very much into biking, he just earned money for the first time in his life and couldn't stop spending it.
He was fired after failing a training course twice...


shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18103 on: July 06, 2017, 08:24:18 AM »
To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18104 on: July 06, 2017, 08:27:54 AM »
I once had a colleague who bought a 1500Ä gaming laptop to play the Sims. He also bought a 2000+Ä Porsche bike. He wasn't very much into biking, he just earned money for the first time in his life and couldn't stop spending it.
He was fired after failing a training course twice...

Well, what else do you do with money besides spend it the second you earn it?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18105 on: July 06, 2017, 08:54:56 AM »
I once had a colleague who bought a 1500Ä gaming laptop to play the Sims. He also bought a 2000+Ä Porsche bike. He wasn't very much into biking, he just earned money for the first time in his life and couldn't stop spending it.
He was fired after failing a training course twice...

Well, what else do you do with money besides spend it the second you earn it?

Spend it before it's been earned! Because credit is convenient.
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BuffaloStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18106 on: July 06, 2017, 10:49:58 AM »
To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

This. Even my old machine can run the newest versions of it.
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Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18107 on: July 06, 2017, 11:34:46 AM »
To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

This. Even my old machine can run the newest versions of it.
It was 12 years ago and the newest Sims game at that time (2?3? I don't know, I think it's boring.)


shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18108 on: July 06, 2017, 01:07:02 PM »
To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

This. Even my old machine can run the newest versions of it.
It was 12 years ago and the newest Sims game at that time (2?3? I don't know, I think it's boring.)

I actually came across The Sims and all the expansion packs for 50p each in a charity shop (except Making Magic, my favourite) and plunked down £2 for a few hours of nostalgia. Sat down and realised... It is really boring! NOTHING happens! Even with all the pets and extra items and everything. I used to spend hours playing. I can't imagine why. I think I would still enjoy The Sims 2, though, because it does go somewhere (giant genetic experiment!) but the first one was a big disappointment, especially how much I enjoyed other games I've re-played lately.

Bella78

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18109 on: July 06, 2017, 04:29:43 PM »
I have a co-worker who told me a couple of weeks ago that she was going to buy new kitchen appliances.  Today I overheard her tell someone else she spent $9,000.  That seems crazy to me.  I couldn't imagine spending even half of that on kitchen appliances.  I know she isn't made of money, because we were talking about heat pumps not too long ago, and she mentioned she would love to get a ductless heat pump to supplement her electric heat, but couldn't afford it.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 04:42:37 PM by Bella78 »

thesvenster

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18110 on: July 06, 2017, 04:50:11 PM »
I have a co-worker who told me a couple of weeks ago that she was going to buy new kitchen appliances.  Today I overheard her tell someone else she spent $9,000.  That seems crazy to me.  I couldn't imagine spending even half of that on kitchen appliances.  I know she isn't made of money, because we were talking about heat pumps not too long ago, and she mentioned she would love to get a ductless heat pump to supplement her electric heat, but couldn't afford it.

Good chance she put them on credit amirite?

Daisy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18111 on: July 06, 2017, 06:31:42 PM »
I have a co-worker who told me a couple of weeks ago that she was going to buy new kitchen appliances.  Today I overheard her tell someone else she spent $9,000.  That seems crazy to me.  I couldn't imagine spending even half of that on kitchen appliances.  I know she isn't made of money, because we were talking about heat pumps not too long ago, and she mentioned she would love to get a ductless heat pump to supplement her electric heat, but couldn't afford it.

Good chance she put them on credit amirite?

Better chance it is a show kitchen (not actually used for cooking but reheating takeout). Amirite?

Bella78

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18112 on: July 06, 2017, 06:43:07 PM »
I have a co-worker who told me a couple of weeks ago that she was going to buy new kitchen appliances.  Today I overheard her tell someone else she spent $9,000.  That seems crazy to me.  I couldn't imagine spending even half of that on kitchen appliances.  I know she isn't made of money, because we were talking about heat pumps not too long ago, and she mentioned she would love to get a ductless heat pump to supplement her electric heat, but couldn't afford it.

Good chance she put them on credit amirite?

I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised.  She financed a washer and dryer 1-2 years ago.

Bella78

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18113 on: July 06, 2017, 06:48:37 PM »
I have a co-worker who told me a couple of weeks ago that she was going to buy new kitchen appliances.  Today I overheard her tell someone else she spent $9,000.  That seems crazy to me.  I couldn't imagine spending even half of that on kitchen appliances.  I know she isn't made of money, because we were talking about heat pumps not too long ago, and she mentioned she would love to get a ductless heat pump to supplement her electric heat, but couldn't afford it.

Good chance she put them on credit amirite?

Better chance it is a show kitchen (not actually used for cooking but reheating takeout). Amirite?

Not a show kitchen.  I'm pretty sure she does use her kitchen for cooking.

With This Herring

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18114 on: July 06, 2017, 06:51:48 PM »
To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

This. Even my old machine can run the newest versions of it.
It was 12 years ago and the newest Sims game at that time (2?3? I don't know, I think it's boring.)

I actually came across The Sims and all the expansion packs for 50p each in a charity shop (except Making Magic, my favourite) and plunked down £2 for a few hours of nostalgia. Sat down and realised... It is really boring! NOTHING happens! Even with all the pets and extra items and everything. I used to spend hours playing. I can't imagine why. I think I would still enjoy The Sims 2, though, because it does go somewhere (giant genetic experiment!) but the first one was a big disappointment, especially how much I enjoyed other games I've re-played lately.

Well, obviously you are playing it incorrectly.  The right way to play The Sims is to use cheat codes to get infinite money, then carefully craft ridiculous houses and populate them with characters you design to look exactly like your friends and family.  Right?  Right?  That's not just me, right?
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Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18115 on: July 06, 2017, 07:47:20 PM »
To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

This. Even my old machine can run the newest versions of it.
It was 12 years ago and the newest Sims game at that time (2?3? I don't know, I think it's boring.)

I actually came across The Sims and all the expansion packs for 50p each in a charity shop (except Making Magic, my favourite) and plunked down £2 for a few hours of nostalgia. Sat down and realised... It is really boring! NOTHING happens! Even with all the pets and extra items and everything. I used to spend hours playing. I can't imagine why. I think I would still enjoy The Sims 2, though, because it does go somewhere (giant genetic experiment!) but the first one was a big disappointment, especially how much I enjoyed other games I've re-played lately.

Well, obviously you are playing it incorrectly.  The right way to play The Sims is to use cheat codes to get infinite money, then carefully craft ridiculous houses and populate them with characters you design to look exactly like your friends and family.  Right?  Right?  That's not just me, right?

Stick sims that melt down into a 1x1 enclosed space until they become urns. Sell the urn for a profit.

With This Herring

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18116 on: July 06, 2017, 08:17:43 PM »
To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

This. Even my old machine can run the newest versions of it.
It was 12 years ago and the newest Sims game at that time (2?3? I don't know, I think it's boring.)

I actually came across The Sims and all the expansion packs for 50p each in a charity shop (except Making Magic, my favourite) and plunked down £2 for a few hours of nostalgia. Sat down and realised... It is really boring! NOTHING happens! Even with all the pets and extra items and everything. I used to spend hours playing. I can't imagine why. I think I would still enjoy The Sims 2, though, because it does go somewhere (giant genetic experiment!) but the first one was a big disappointment, especially how much I enjoyed other games I've re-played lately.

Well, obviously you are playing it incorrectly.  The right way to play The Sims is to use cheat codes to get infinite money, then carefully craft ridiculous houses and populate them with characters you design to look exactly like your friends and family.  Right?  Right?  That's not just me, right?

Stick sims that melt down into a 1x1 enclosed space until they become urns. Sell the urn for a profit.

I think you would enjoy RollerCoaster Tycoon.
Because your toaster got hacked because you tried to watch porn on your blender.

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Go soak your beans.  You know you keep forgetting.

Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18117 on: July 06, 2017, 09:03:53 PM »
To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

This. Even my old machine can run the newest versions of it.
It was 12 years ago and the newest Sims game at that time (2?3? I don't know, I think it's boring.)

I actually came across The Sims and all the expansion packs for 50p each in a charity shop (except Making Magic, my favourite) and plunked down £2 for a few hours of nostalgia. Sat down and realised... It is really boring! NOTHING happens! Even with all the pets and extra items and everything. I used to spend hours playing. I can't imagine why. I think I would still enjoy The Sims 2, though, because it does go somewhere (giant genetic experiment!) but the first one was a big disappointment, especially how much I enjoyed other games I've re-played lately.

Well, obviously you are playing it incorrectly.  The right way to play The Sims is to use cheat codes to get infinite money, then carefully craft ridiculous houses and populate them with characters you design to look exactly like your friends and family.  Right?  Right?  That's not just me, right?

Stick sims that melt down into a 1x1 enclosed space until they become urns. Sell the urn for a profit.

I think you would enjoy RollerCoaster Tycoon.

The old Euthanasia Coaster or the what-angle-launches-people-the-farthest coaster. Sadly, I never played that game since Civ 3 grabbed my attention around that point.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18118 on: July 06, 2017, 11:51:00 PM »
To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

This. Even my old machine can run the newest versions of it.
It was 12 years ago and the newest Sims game at that time (2?3? I don't know, I think it's boring.)

I actually came across The Sims and all the expansion packs for 50p each in a charity shop (except Making Magic, my favourite) and plunked down £2 for a few hours of nostalgia. Sat down and realised... It is really boring! NOTHING happens! Even with all the pets and extra items and everything. I used to spend hours playing. I can't imagine why. I think I would still enjoy The Sims 2, though, because it does go somewhere (giant genetic experiment!) but the first one was a big disappointment, especially how much I enjoyed other games I've re-played lately.

Well, obviously you are playing it incorrectly.  The right way to play The Sims is to use cheat codes to get infinite money, then carefully craft ridiculous houses and populate them with characters you design to look exactly like your friends and family.  Right?  Right?  That's not just me, right?

Stick sims that melt down into a 1x1 enclosed space until they become urns. Sell the urn for a profit.

I think you would enjoy RollerCoaster Tycoon.

The old Euthanasia Coaster or the what-angle-launches-people-the-farthest coaster. Sadly, I never played that game since Civ 3 grabbed my attention around that point.

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shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18119 on: July 07, 2017, 03:30:28 AM »
To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

This. Even my old machine can run the newest versions of it.
It was 12 years ago and the newest Sims game at that time (2?3? I don't know, I think it's boring.)

I actually came across The Sims and all the expansion packs for 50p each in a charity shop (except Making Magic, my favourite) and plunked down £2 for a few hours of nostalgia. Sat down and realised... It is really boring! NOTHING happens! Even with all the pets and extra items and everything. I used to spend hours playing. I can't imagine why. I think I would still enjoy The Sims 2, though, because it does go somewhere (giant genetic experiment!) but the first one was a big disappointment, especially how much I enjoyed other games I've re-played lately.

Well, obviously you are playing it incorrectly.  The right way to play The Sims is to use cheat codes to get infinite money, then carefully craft ridiculous houses and populate them with characters you design to look exactly like your friends and family.  Right?  Right?  That's not just me, right?

Believe me, even that was dull! I just don't know what I saw in it. But I would give The Sims 2 another go, as the creator was much better and they actually grew up and got old and died. I used to make really wacky looking ones and breed them and see what came out when they did "woohoo" (or whatever they called it!)

+1 to Rollercoaster Tycoon, though. Not endless fun, but well worth a couple of quid for many hours of casual play. I want to find a copy of Zoo Tycoon, though! I remember the animals being really cool, especially the okapi.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18120 on: July 07, 2017, 05:57:49 AM »
I just started a new job two months ago, and the majority of the engineers in my group are below the age of 25.  Their financial antics entertain me.  I am trying my best to get them to think smart, but I can already see a few that are going to get themselves into trouble.

There is one girl in particular who is a real doozy.  She keeps complaining about being poor and needing to pay off student loans asap (great!).  Then I see her getting into her car - a brand new Audi.  Ok...benefit of the doubt.  Maybe it was a gift from her parents for graduating or something.  Nope.  She bought it when she got this job because ďshe loves AudisĒ.  She has the base level A3 and is lusting after a more expensive A7.  Yikes. 


cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18121 on: July 07, 2017, 08:02:38 AM »
I just started a new job two months ago, and the majority of the engineers in my group are below the age of 25.  Their financial antics entertain me.  I am trying my best to get them to think smart, but I can already see a few that are going to get themselves into trouble.

Of all the people out there, you would think that engineers would understand exponential growth and the math behind early retirement better than just about anybody... Maybe when they see you retire early it will click.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18122 on: July 07, 2017, 08:11:18 AM »
I just started a new job two months ago, and the majority of the engineers in my group are below the age of 25.  Their financial antics entertain me.  I am trying my best to get them to think smart, but I can already see a few that are going to get themselves into trouble.

Of all the people out there, you would think that engineers would understand exponential growth and the math behind early retirement better than just about anybody... Maybe when they see you retire early it will click.
I feel like I was taught to think for myself in college, although I'm sure there are some incorrect ideas I'm still stuck on due to society/my upbringing or whatever you want to call it.  It's hard to undo 20 years of watching commercials, watching other people, and hearing the illogical things they say.

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18123 on: July 07, 2017, 08:15:00 AM »
I just started a new job two months ago, and the majority of the engineers in my group are below the age of 25.  Their financial antics entertain me.  I am trying my best to get them to think smart, but I can already see a few that are going to get themselves into trouble.

Of all the people out there, you would think that engineers would understand exponential growth and the math behind early retirement better than just about anybody... Maybe when they see you retire early it will click.
I feel like I was taught to think for myself in college, although I'm sure there are some incorrect ideas I'm still stuck on due to society/my upbringing or whatever you want to call it.  It's hard to undo 20 years of watching commercials, watching other people, and hearing the illogical things they say.

Maybe they just haven't come to the conclusion yet that they don't want to sit in an office til they're 65 years old. Admittedly, at 25 I wasn't aware of early retirement. It took a few years of working to realize that work kinda sucks and I'd rather be doing what I want to do, not what I'm told to do..

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18124 on: July 07, 2017, 09:07:43 AM »
I just started a new job two months ago, and the majority of the engineers in my group are below the age of 25.  Their financial antics entertain me.  I am trying my best to get them to think smart, but I can already see a few that are going to get themselves into trouble.

Of all the people out there, you would think that engineers would understand exponential growth and the math behind early retirement better than just about anybody... Maybe when they see you retire early it will click.
I feel like I was taught to think for myself in college, although I'm sure there are some incorrect ideas I'm still stuck on due to society/my upbringing or whatever you want to call it.  It's hard to undo 20 years of watching commercials, watching other people, and hearing the illogical things they say.

Maybe they just haven't come to the conclusion yet that they don't want to sit in an office til they're 65 years old. Admittedly, at 25 I wasn't aware of early retirement. It took a few years of working to realize that work kinda sucks and I'd rather be doing what I want to do, not what I'm told to do..
Not even that - I think maybe they were never taught that debt is bad.  Mortgage debt aside - I was raised to believe that debt was bad.  I don't know when my dad got a credit card, but not when I was living with him.

So I bought a used car cheap, and worked hard at paying off my college loans (it was the early 90s, my interest rates were 8% and 10%).  It would not have occurred to me to buy an expensive new car when I had college loans to pay off.  I think these days, debt is "normal" and "no big deal".

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18125 on: July 07, 2017, 09:50:19 AM »
Maybe they just haven't come to the conclusion yet that they don't want to sit in an office til they're 65 years old. Admittedly, at 25 I wasn't aware of early retirement. It took a few years of working to realize that work kinda sucks and I'd rather be doing what I want to do, not what I'm told to do..

When I was a 25 year old engineer I hadn't heard of early retirement, enjoyed my job enough that I thought I wanted to do it until I couldn't operate my graphic calculator, and figured that as my wages were going to rise over time it may sense to over spend on (low cost) credit to smooth out my fun curve over time.

I'm not saying that this was fantastic logic, but I did what made sense with the information I had at the time.

Sarah Saverdink

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18126 on: July 08, 2017, 09:44:26 AM »
Maybe they just haven't come to the conclusion yet that they don't want to sit in an office til they're 65 years old. Admittedly, at 25 I wasn't aware of early retirement. It took a few years of working to realize that work kinda sucks and I'd rather be doing what I want to do, not what I'm told to do..

When I was a 25 year old engineer I hadn't heard of early retirement, enjoyed my job enough that I thought I wanted to do it until I couldn't operate my graphic calculator, and figured that as my wages were going to rise over time it may sense to over spend on (low cost) credit to smooth out my fun curve over time.

I'm not saying that this was fantastic logic, but I did what made sense with the information I had at the time.

Another engineer checking in. I hadn't heard of early retirement / FI until I was around 30. I enjoyed it for the most part, but "planned" to retire in my 50s/60s since that's what you do. Still, I was always taught to save money and not splurge on expensive, unnecessary purchases. When I got my first job, I immediately maxed out my 401k and Roth IRA. Husband followed a similar path (though not as aggressively). 10 years into our careers, we had already saved $1M and that's when the FIRE bug hit us.

Mind you, we still had some pretty face punch worthy purchases along the way - primarily two new vehicles (both in the mid-20s price range, so not TOO excessive). We bought a moderate house for our area. Nice 1,700 sq ft colonial - which is more than enough for two people, but it was much smaller and more modest than what many of our engineering peers were/are purchasing. I'm amazed at the number of engineers in my office who only contribute up to the company match on their 401k (6%) and call it a day. New car, expensive house, electronic gadgets... all more important to them than saving for retirement.
www.saverdinks.com - DINKs in our 30s. Saved $1M by age 32. Follow our journey to financial independence.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18127 on: July 08, 2017, 10:02:31 AM »
I'm amazed at the number of engineers in my office who only contribute up to the company match on their 401k (6%) and call it a day. New car, expensive house, electronic gadgets... all more important to them than saving for retirement.

My FIL is disappointed that we don't live this lifestyle while preparing for a near traditional retirement. Commenting on TV shows, he literally thinks that people who choose smaller homes are mentally unstable.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18128 on: July 09, 2017, 08:50:43 AM »
For all those who want to bath in game nostalgia - you may find it here:

http://gamesnostalgia.com/en/games


I think these days, debt is "normal" and "no big deal".

Well, somebody has to take the debt for all the non-stocks savings. If a billionaire puts 100 million into a bank account, you need 100'000 people to make 1000 debt for that savings.
 

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18129 on: July 09, 2017, 10:11:32 AM »
I think these days, debt is "normal" and "no big deal".

Well, somebody has to take the debt for all the non-stocks savings. If a billionaire puts 100 million into a bank account, you need 100'000 people to make 1000 debt for that savings.

I don't think that's how it works...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18130 on: July 10, 2017, 03:10:57 AM »
I think these days, debt is "normal" and "no big deal".

Well, somebody has to take the debt for all the non-stocks savings. If a billionaire puts 100 million into a bank account, you need 100'000 people to make 1000 debt for that savings.

I don't think that's how it works...

Where do you think he got the 100 million from in the first place?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18131 on: July 10, 2017, 06:27:35 AM »
Maybe they just haven't come to the conclusion yet that they don't want to sit in an office til they're 65 years old. Admittedly, at 25 I wasn't aware of early retirement. It took a few years of working to realize that work kinda sucks and I'd rather be doing what I want to do, not what I'm told to do..

When I was a 25 year old engineer I hadn't heard of early retirement, enjoyed my job enough that I thought I wanted to do it until I couldn't operate my graphic calculator, and figured that as my wages were going to rise over time it may sense to over spend on (low cost) credit to smooth out my fun curve over time.

I'm not saying that this was fantastic logic, but I did what made sense with the information I had at the time.
I'm amazed at the number of engineers in my office who only contribute up to the company match on their 401k (6%) and call it a day. New car, expensive house, electronic gadgets... all more important to them than saving for retirement.

All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

Something else that is ridiculous is people bragging about how they're "adulting" because they bought a car. Yeah...you didn't buy a car. Your bank did. The only requirement in financing a car is having a pulse. You don't even need any credit history. Even with buying a house, there are programs for first time home buyers that only allow you to put 5% down. So that's not really a sign of success either, especially if it's more house than you can afford when kids come into play...

Prime example attached below. Not pictured: Lexus he bought brand new.

nobody123

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18132 on: July 10, 2017, 06:57:11 AM »
Maybe they just haven't come to the conclusion yet that they don't want to sit in an office til they're 65 years old. Admittedly, at 25 I wasn't aware of early retirement. It took a few years of working to realize that work kinda sucks and I'd rather be doing what I want to do, not what I'm told to do..

When I was a 25 year old engineer I hadn't heard of early retirement, enjoyed my job enough that I thought I wanted to do it until I couldn't operate my graphic calculator, and figured that as my wages were going to rise over time it may sense to over spend on (low cost) credit to smooth out my fun curve over time.

I'm not saying that this was fantastic logic, but I did what made sense with the information I had at the time.
I'm amazed at the number of engineers in my office who only contribute up to the company match on their 401k (6%) and call it a day. New car, expensive house, electronic gadgets... all more important to them than saving for retirement.

All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

Something else that is ridiculous is people bragging about how they're "adulting" because they bought a car. Yeah...you didn't buy a car. Your bank did. The only requirement in financing a car is having a pulse. You don't even need any credit history. Even with buying a house, there are programs for first time home buyers that only allow you to put 5% down. So that's not really a sign of success either, especially if it's more house than you can afford when kids come into play...

Prime example attached below. Not pictured: Lexus he bought brand new.

The only thing I find objectionable is the use of the term "adulting."  They choose to spend/save their money in a way that is different from how you choose to spend/save your money.  Assuming they aren't hitting you up for a loan to subsidize their lifestyle, what business of it is yours?

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18133 on: July 10, 2017, 07:17:10 AM »
Maybe they just haven't come to the conclusion yet that they don't want to sit in an office til they're 65 years old. Admittedly, at 25 I wasn't aware of early retirement. It took a few years of working to realize that work kinda sucks and I'd rather be doing what I want to do, not what I'm told to do..

When I was a 25 year old engineer I hadn't heard of early retirement, enjoyed my job enough that I thought I wanted to do it until I couldn't operate my graphic calculator, and figured that as my wages were going to rise over time it may sense to over spend on (low cost) credit to smooth out my fun curve over time.

I'm not saying that this was fantastic logic, but I did what made sense with the information I had at the time.
I'm amazed at the number of engineers in my office who only contribute up to the company match on their 401k (6%) and call it a day. New car, expensive house, electronic gadgets... all more important to them than saving for retirement.

All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

Something else that is ridiculous is people bragging about how they're "adulting" because they bought a car. Yeah...you didn't buy a car. Your bank did. The only requirement in financing a car is having a pulse. You don't even need any credit history. Even with buying a house, there are programs for first time home buyers that only allow you to put 5% down. So that's not really a sign of success either, especially if it's more house than you can afford when kids come into play...

Prime example attached below. Not pictured: Lexus he bought brand new.

The only thing I find objectionable is the use of the term "adulting."  They choose to spend/save their money in a way that is different from how you choose to spend/save your money.  Assuming they aren't hitting you up for a loan to subsidize their lifestyle, what business of it is yours?

I would agree except they're spending money they DON'T have. They're not buying these new cars with cash like people on this forum.

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18134 on: July 10, 2017, 07:40:49 AM »
I think these days, debt is "normal" and "no big deal".

Well, somebody has to take the debt for all the non-stocks savings. If a billionaire puts 100 million into a bank account, you need 100'000 people to make 1000 debt for that savings.

I don't think that's how it works...

Where do you think he got the 100 million from in the first place?

On a simplistic level it seems like there could be a direct 1-to-1 relation but considering the government can print money I don't think it shouldn't net out to 0. But I admit I don't really have a good enough understanding of currency/economics to feel confident either way.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18135 on: July 10, 2017, 07:57:40 AM »
On a simplistic level it seems like there could be a direct 1-to-1 relation but considering the government can print money I don't think it shouldn't net out to 0. But I admit I don't really have a good enough understanding of currency/economics to feel confident either way.
The ratio is much, much less than 1 to 1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking



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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18136 on: July 10, 2017, 08:25:57 AM »
I think these days, debt is "normal" and "no big deal".

Well, somebody has to take the debt for all the non-stocks savings. If a billionaire puts 100 million into a bank account, you need 100'000 people to make 1000 debt for that savings.

I don't think that's how it works...

This is not how it works, this is how it stands on the balance sheet ;)

For every dollar avings there has to be a dollar debt, and for every dollar debt there has to be a dollar savings. This is how the system works.

If you give 100 dollar to the bank, then you have 100 dollar savings and the bank has 100 dollar debt towards you.
If you take a loan you have 100 dollar debt towards the bank and the bank has 100 dollar "savings", just with another word. In German it is "Forderung", but I don't know the English term. (*look at leo.org* probably one of those: accounts receivable [FINAN.] debt claim [FINAN.])

If a bank "creates" money, they put it on balance account 1234 "money created" on one side and "loans given" 2345 on the other side, so that it zeroes out.

If they "destroy" money, then they get money from you, lower the "loans given" line in the balance sheet and - both sides must have the same result, double accounting - also the line "money created". 


btw private banks create way more money then central banks.

The problem with the system is that even the "strict" regulations only require 10% reserve - so a bank can create 10 dollar for loans for every dollar they have. And they try to keep close to that limit to make maximum profit.

One bank alone could be stable (or at least easiy "saved"), but the banks are loaning each other too - and the inter-banking market was where it crashed big last time, because they were trading with those house thingies nobody understood, too.

You see, if one bank cannot pay its debt, the other banks have to lower their "loans given" line. And they must decrease the other side of the balance sheet accordingly. They can do that by lowering their reserve until they hit the ceiling - in this case the 10%. And then?
Then they have to get money, at whatever cost. So they want the money back they have loaned to other banks who also just have decreased their reserve.

You know that picture with the snowball and a mountain? 

This is when a bank is "system relevant" - when the removing of it out of the system is the snowball thats starts the burying of the whole valley. Too big to fail.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18137 on: July 10, 2017, 12:15:01 PM »
On a simplistic level it seems like there could be a direct 1-to-1 relation but considering the government can print money I don't think it shouldn't net out to 0. But I admit I don't really have a good enough understanding of currency/economics to feel confident either way.
The ratio is much, much less than 1 to 1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking

Government "printing" these days is mostly issuance of bonds, which are (you guessed it) debt.


thesvenster

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18138 on: July 10, 2017, 03:38:27 PM »
Maybe they just haven't come to the conclusion yet that they don't want to sit in an office til they're 65 years old. Admittedly, at 25 I wasn't aware of early retirement. It took a few years of working to realize that work kinda sucks and I'd rather be doing what I want to do, not what I'm told to do..

When I was a 25 year old engineer I hadn't heard of early retirement, enjoyed my job enough that I thought I wanted to do it until I couldn't operate my graphic calculator, and figured that as my wages were going to rise over time it may sense to over spend on (low cost) credit to smooth out my fun curve over time.

I'm not saying that this was fantastic logic, but I did what made sense with the information I had at the time.
I'm amazed at the number of engineers in my office who only contribute up to the company match on their 401k (6%) and call it a day. New car, expensive house, electronic gadgets... all more important to them than saving for retirement.

All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

Something else that is ridiculous is people bragging about how they're "adulting" because they bought a car. Yeah...you didn't buy a car. Your bank did. The only requirement in financing a car is having a pulse. You don't even need any credit history. Even with buying a house, there are programs for first time home buyers that only allow you to put 5% down. So that's not really a sign of success either, especially if it's more house than you can afford when kids come into play...

Prime example attached below. Not pictured: Lexus he bought brand new.

The only thing I find objectionable is the use of the term "adulting."  They choose to spend/save their money in a way that is different from how you choose to spend/save your money.  Assuming they aren't hitting you up for a loan to subsidize their lifestyle, what business of it is yours?

These folks might not be directly asking you for a loan, but what will happen when they get too old to work and they're retirement doesn't pencil out? They'll become a burden to society.

And secondly, it's perfectly fair to judge other people's choices. It might not be your business to force them to make different choices, but you can weigh the merits of their decisions.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18139 on: July 10, 2017, 05:10:34 PM »
I'd just like to personally register my disdain for the term "adulting." I don't understand how being a semi-responsible adult (when one is you know, of adult age) became this thing you have to call attention to and be congratulated for. I'm not "adulting" when I go to the dentist or call customer service about my bill, I'm just an adult. I blame helicopter parents who have never let their kids do anything on their own.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18140 on: July 10, 2017, 09:52:16 PM »
Colleague:  ďI thought I might save up some money while Iím over here, but Iím only going to be here for two years, so I think I should just travel and live it up.Ē

Um...you get free accommodation and a good salary.  You can do both?  I certainly am.  (Travel and saving, I mean.  I donít know what exactly she means by living it up, but maybe that factor is the reason she canít save.)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18141 on: July 11, 2017, 06:57:19 AM »
Something else that is ridiculous is people bragging about how they're "adulting" because they bought a car.

It's funny, I use the term adulting to mean that I'm doing a thing I don't want to do, but I am doing it because I am a responsible adult and know that my future self will be happy it was done.

So making phone calls I don't want to make is adulting. Flossing is adulting. Not having a will atm is a failure to adult.
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Inaya

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18142 on: July 11, 2017, 08:19:17 AM »
I'd just like to personally register my disdain for the term "adulting." I don't understand how being a semi-responsible adult (when one is you know, of adult age) became this thing you have to call attention to and be congratulated for. I'm not "adulting" when I go to the dentist or call customer service about my bill, I'm just an adult. I blame helicopter parents who have never let their kids do anything on their own.


That may be part of it. Many young adults (20s me included) are woefully unprepared for adult life. This could be from any number of factors. Helicoptering parents. Almost no life skills taught in schools. Having both parents working full time rather than having one stay at home to teach life skills--many of which are taken for granted by older generations. When you're in your 20s or even 30s and were never educated to do your taxes, find a physician, shop for insurance, etc., it feels like an accomplishment when you did it, because you also had to teach yourself how to do it.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18143 on: July 11, 2017, 08:24:32 AM »
Colleague:  ďI thought I might save up some money while Iím over here, but Iím only going to be here for two years, so I think I should just travel and live it up.Ē

Um...you get free accommodation and a good salary.  You can do both?  I certainly am.  (Travel and saving, I mean.  I donít know what exactly she means by living it up, but maybe that factor is the reason she canít save.)

I always find it amusing when people think it is a binary option - you either sit at home and eat ramen noodles and scrimp and save every penny you can, or you spend with reckless abandon and YOLO all your money. There is no middle ground lol

SweetTPie

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18144 on: July 11, 2017, 08:27:18 AM »
All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

I'm an engineer who bought a new car right after I graduated and got a job.  Shall we mock me for my excessive spending?  I also didn't have a car to begin with, and moved to an area with basically no public transport.  Sure, used would have worked, but I saw no reason not to get a new car that could last me 10-15 years.  (It lasted 8 before being totaled, poor thing, but was on track for 15-20 years in terms of mileage.)  Not everyone turns 16 and immediately gets a car for driving to and from school.

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18145 on: July 11, 2017, 09:09:33 AM »
Colleague:  ďI thought I might save up some money while Iím over here, but Iím only going to be here for two years, so I think I should just travel and live it up.Ē

Um...you get free accommodation and a good salary.  You can do both?  I certainly am.  (Travel and saving, I mean.  I donít know what exactly she means by living it up, but maybe that factor is the reason she canít save.)

I always find it amusing when people think it is a binary option - you either sit at home and eat ramen noodles and scrimp and save every penny you can, or you spend with reckless abandon and YOLO all your money. There is no middle ground lol

But it's a common way of thinking. Many people told me, they don't want to count pennies or think about costs while on vacation. The result: mindless spending. I prefer to keep an eye on my spending and do a second vacation instead of "not worrying about money" for two weeks and then worry about my credit card depts when I am back home.

(To be fair, I made this mistake once. Denmark can be REALLY expensive and I just went to the ATM whenever the money was gone... took me ~6 months to recover.)


nobody123

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18146 on: July 11, 2017, 09:23:38 AM »
These folks might not be directly asking you for a loan, but what will happen when they get too old to work and they're retirement doesn't pencil out? They'll become a burden to society.

And secondly, it's perfectly fair to judge other people's choices. It might not be your business to force them to make different choices, but you can weigh the merits of their decisions.

Everyone is a burden to society to some extent.  If you have the ability to see 40 years into the future and know which particular folks are doomed to be a greater than average burden, more power to you.

My point about judging is that OP was projecting that they wouldn't be able to afford the house once kids come, and that they were somehow irresponsibly using credit because they didn't pay for a car / house in cash. 

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18147 on: July 11, 2017, 09:31:45 AM »
All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

I'm an engineer who bought a new car right after I graduated and got a job.  Shall we mock me for my excessive spending?  I also didn't have a car to begin with, and moved to an area with basically no public transport.  Sure, used would have worked, but I saw no reason not to get a new car that could last me 10-15 years.  (It lasted 8 before being totaled, poor thing, but was on track for 15-20 years in terms of mileage.)  Not everyone turns 16 and immediately gets a car for driving to and from school.

That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18148 on: July 11, 2017, 09:56:15 AM »
That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford.

Maybe, or maybe it was a 0% loan and your net worth grows faster when you're able to borrow free money and invest your cash instead..

The important thing is that you (hopefully) ran the numbers on new vs. used and determined that a new car was the financially optimal scenario, not just the emotionally satisfying one.

nobody123

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18149 on: July 11, 2017, 09:59:16 AM »
That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!