Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 5873623 times)

Gone_Hiking

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 98
  • Location: Arizona
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17500 on: April 30, 2017, 10:26:41 PM »
The private boys school here are copping it atm because there has been a royal commission into institutional child abuse. One headmaster from a school, Knox, said one of the boys in question was essentially asking for it. Another, from Kings, sent the debt collectors in after the parents refused to pay the fees after their son told them of abuse.

If someone wants to send their kid to a place where they can get bullied, bastardised or anally raped for the privilege of paying $20-$40k a year, I am sure other places will do it more cheaply and will build so-called character for less trauma.

The piteous thing is the abuse was more likely to happen to a kid if he was socially isolated (single parent family) and far from home (boarders/country kids).

This is absolutely reprehensible.  Did the commission bring any charges?

Sydneystache

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
  • Location: Sydney (Westie!)
  • Aiming for RE!
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17501 on: April 30, 2017, 10:28:42 PM »
Still ongoing

https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au

Re:charges, the commission refers cases to the police and they then investigate and press charges.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 10:35:25 PM by Sydneystache »

rockeTree

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 130
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17502 on: May 01, 2017, 04:14:15 AM »
In the last two months said CW has bought a new house ("can't have a baby in a condo!"), with stated plans of buying another larger house if there's ever a second kid, bought all new furniture for every room in the house ("our old stuff didn't really suit the scale of the rooms in the new place") and complained about the salary just to me at least four times... there must be a grand a month of pure fluff that could be had by keeping a car for five years and learning some basic cooking skills.

Granted our son is just over a month and a half old, but DW and I live fine in a condo with our baby and have had many relatives/guests spend nights with us. Think about it- the majority of humans on this planet live in similar/less square footage with larger families and somehow make it work.

My house is smaller than her old condo and we have four in it just fine. But there must be something she wants but doesn't buy that makes her feel 'frugal'...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

snowball

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 42
  • Location: somewhere in the Middle East for now
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17503 on: May 01, 2017, 11:05:49 AM »
I was talking with a new colleague, a Canadian citizen but working in the US.  She is pretty young and naive generally (first job, first time living away from home) and we started talking about health insurance.  She said that it was cheaper for her to fly home ($200 r/t) if she needed to see a doctor so she declined the health insurance we have through work (We have decent choices and a range of prices).  I asked her about accidents or something unexpected where she couldn't fly home.  Her answer was, "I'm just trying to be extra careful about that..."

Crazy.  You have to be a resident of your province to maintain the health coverage.  Her canadian coverage will expire within 3 months of leaving her province.  US Residents (even canadians) pay for medical clinics and emergency in Canada.

When I lived in Alberta, I did hear of someone living in Montana and going back to Alberta for health care when they needed it; several provinces actually reinstitute coverage immediately, if you don't have bridging coverage from your old province, instead of requiring the 3-month waiting period you get in BC/Ontario/other-provinces-I-forget.  So maybe she plans to return to one of those provinces and get instant coverage*.  I feel like that must be some kind of fraud though, as she's not paying taxes into the health care system, and would probably have to (mis)represent herself as a returning resident, when in reality she'd be planning to return to the States.

*But I bet not.  :P  Seems more likely she's simply never notified the provincial health plan of her change of address, and is letting them believe she still lives with her parents.  Still fraud, but she'll probably get away with it, unless she does something like file a non-resident tax return, which I hear vastly increases the likelihood someone will check up on whether your health coverage is still active.

But all of that aside, it's just ridiculous to rely on no emergencies ever happening to you.  In kindness, I imagine she's not only young and naive, but must also have led a charmed life up to this point - never experienced any unexpected bad events in her life, and can't quite believe such a thing could happen to her.  And maybe she doesn't realize how expensive emergency health care in the U.S. can be, though you'd have to be living under a rock for that...

infogoon

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 805
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17504 on: May 01, 2017, 12:58:26 PM »
Downside is that when I go elsewhere (other than NY/CT) and people order in/take us out for pizza, it's invariably inferior.  Was at our office in Tulsa once and they ordered in from "the best pizza place in town" and it was almost inedible.

I've lived in Buffalo for twenty-plus years now. I once ordered wings from the hotel bar when I was at a conference in Tempe, Arizona. I know the taste of disappointment.

BabyShark

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 176
  • Location: Virginia
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17505 on: May 01, 2017, 01:02:01 PM »
Downside is that when I go elsewhere (other than NY/CT) and people order in/take us out for pizza, it's invariably inferior.  Was at our office in Tulsa once and they ordered in from "the best pizza place in town" and it was almost inedible.

I've lived in Buffalo for twenty-plus years now. I once ordered wings from the hotel bar when I was at a conference in Tempe, Arizona. I know the taste of disappointment.

Why would you do that???  I haven't lived there in nearly 9 years but I still refuse to order wings anywhere but Buffalo.

BuffaloStache

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 433
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17506 on: May 01, 2017, 01:51:20 PM »
Downside is that when I go elsewhere (other than NY/CT) and people order in/take us out for pizza, it's invariably inferior.  Was at our office in Tulsa once and they ordered in from "the best pizza place in town" and it was almost inedible.

I've lived in Buffalo for twenty-plus years now. I once ordered wings from the hotel bar when I was at a conference in Tempe, Arizona. I know the taste of disappointment.

As someone who has lived both in/near NYC and in Buffalo- I completely relate.

When ordering pizza here in Colorado I typically just refer to it as "saucy cheese bread", because somehow that makes me feel better about eating it. As for wings, I've found a couple places here in Colorado that have a chef from Buffalo or a Buffalo connection, so their wings are definitely passable.
My Log

Hunny156

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
  • Location: Central TX
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17507 on: May 01, 2017, 02:14:44 PM »
So, this conversation dropped itself into my cubicle a few minutes ago.  Co-worker is waiting for my cube-mate to come back from a meeting, and we made small talk.  I found out it was her first day back from a planned medical procedure about 3 weeks ago.  She's fine, just tired and slowly ramping up to full work days.  But she shared the following nuggets:

*     Short Term Disability has been a pain to deal with, she still hasn't gotten paid and is running out of cash, b/c she has bills to pay.
*     On the day of surgery, she forgot that she had to make a $2K payment, and she couldn't come up with the full amount, so they agreed to bill her for the remainder instead of postponing the surgery.  She pulled out her HSA card, a credit card, and her hubby's CC, but didn't have enough between the three to make the full $2K.  (Our employer front loads our HSA every Jan 1st with $1,300)
*     Since she hasn't received the paycheck from last Friday (we get paid 2x/mo), she's out of cash.  She admitted that she NEVER saves any money, but happened to have a little bit in savings, so she was able to liquidate savings to make the mortgage payment. 

I did my best to be sympathetic, but I'm sure there was a bit of panic on my face.  We live in a relatively LCOL area, she easily makes six figures plus her hubby works too, and we happen to work for a company in financial services that is heavily based on the importance of saving.  Mind. Blown.

cheapass

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 497
  • Location: Dallas, Texas
  • On track for FIRE @ 40
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17508 on: May 01, 2017, 02:17:16 PM »
We live in a relatively LCOL area, she easily makes six figures plus her hubby works too, and we happen to work for a company in financial services that is heavily based on the importance of saving.  Mind. Blown.

The cobbler's children truly have no shoes. I'm amazed at how many educated, savvy business/finance people have their work affairs in order but the personal finance is a mess. Like, often times it's the exact same concepts...
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

Tasty Pinecones

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 763
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17509 on: May 01, 2017, 02:35:56 PM »
So, this conversation dropped itself into my cubicle a few minutes ago.

I wonder if that will ever change how they manage their finances.

I imagine for some folks the disappointment of not being able to go out with friends is all it took to nudge them into developing a personal savings plan as a teenager. For other people apparently it takes some major life event first.

Vindicated

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1089
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Indianapolis
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17510 on: May 01, 2017, 02:38:42 PM »
I imagine for some folks the disappointment of not being able to go out with friends is all it took to nudge them into developing a personal savings plan as a teenager. For other people apparently it takes some major life event first.

Interesting to think about.  I wonder what gave other people that "nudge".

I'm going to go start a thread about it, because I'm bored at work ;)
My MMM Journal: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/my-almost-perfect-life-experience/

"Remember that sometimes not getting what you want is a wonderful stroke of luck. - Dalai Lama

Blissful Biker

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 127
  • Location: Kootenays, BC
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17511 on: May 01, 2017, 02:53:52 PM »
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year, lives with her parents and must have a large closet because she seems to have a never ending supply of fashionable clothes and shoes. 

When it feels appropriate I try to mentor some of the younger folks on my team on basic life skills, particularly the women (as I am one too).  In her performance review we talked about her career goals and life goals.  She would like to move our of her parents place but "can't afford it".   Our company matches retirement savings up to 4% of salary, but she doesn't contribute anything, again because she "can't afford it". 

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.  I fear for the young engineers she flirts with in the office. 

cheapass

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 497
  • Location: Dallas, Texas
  • On track for FIRE @ 40
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17512 on: May 01, 2017, 03:47:42 PM »
She would like to move our of her parents place but "can't afford it".   Our company matches retirement savings up to 4% of salary, but she doesn't contribute anything, again because she "can't afford it". 

lol. "Have you thought about why you can't afford it?"
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

scottish

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 834
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17513 on: May 01, 2017, 04:28:04 PM »
Downside is that when I go elsewhere (other than NY/CT) and people order in/take us out for pizza, it's invariably inferior.  Was at our office in Tulsa once and they ordered in from "the best pizza place in town" and it was almost inedible.

I've lived in Buffalo for twenty-plus years now. I once ordered wings from the hotel bar when I was at a conference in Tempe, Arizona. I know the taste of disappointment.


As someone who has lived both in/near NYC and in Buffalo- I completely relate.

When ordering pizza here in Colorado I typically just refer to it as "saucy cheese bread", because somehow that makes me feel better about eating it. As for wings, I've found a couple places here in Colorado that have a chef from Buffalo or a Buffalo connection, so their wings are definitely passable.

DOH!   I just learned why they're called Buffalo Wings.    I always thought wtf, who thinks buffalos have wings.

ysette9

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1662
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17514 on: May 01, 2017, 04:58:25 PM »
Quote
DOH!   I just learned why they're called Buffalo Wings.    I always thought wtf, who thinks buffalos have wings.

Count me in as a second person who learned something today! I always wondered the same thing, but chalked it up to the same nonsense as someone wanting to eat wings to begin with. Then again, I'm not into skin, gristle, or bone, so I can't relate to someone who wants to eat something that is primarily skin, gristle, and bone.
"It'll be great!"

Dave1442397

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 496
  • Location: NJ
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17515 on: May 01, 2017, 07:14:34 PM »
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year, lives with her parents and must have a large closet because she seems to have a never ending supply of fashionable clothes and shoes. 

When it feels appropriate I try to mentor some of the younger folks on my team on basic life skills, particularly the women (as I am one too).  In her performance review we talked about her career goals and life goals.  She would like to move our of her parents place but "can't afford it".   Our company matches retirement savings up to 4% of salary, but she doesn't contribute anything, again because she "can't afford it". 

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.  I fear for the young engineers she flirts with in the office.

I know someone who did just that. I worked with her 25 years ago, when we were both just starting out at a big corporation. She used to date a lot of prospective husbands. I lost touch after I left the company, but recently found her on Facebook (friend of a friend) and saw that she got married, never worked again, but has a beautiful family and seems to enjoy life. I have no idea what her husband does.

As for the clothes, I worked at a company where the CFO was a single woman in her fifties, making $250k/yr. She always had expensive outfits, and lots of them. She had a house in Texas that she visited a few times a year, and a house in PA that she lived in.

She told us that she was buying a bigger house in PA, and a few people said they'd help her move. It turned out that the reason she needed a bigger house was that she had filled the current three-bedroom house with clothes. The people who helped with the move said that every closet was stuffed, and the bedrooms were filled with department store-style clothes racks. She also admitted that the reason she hadn't sold her house in Texas was that it was also stuffed with clothes and shoes.


mustachepungoeshere

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17516 on: May 01, 2017, 07:54:47 PM »
Quote
DOH!   I just learned why they're called Buffalo Wings.    I always thought wtf, who thinks buffalos have wings.

Count me in as a second person who learned something today!

Third!

Goldielocks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4336
  • Location: BC
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17517 on: May 02, 2017, 01:26:15 AM »
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year, lives with her parents and must have a large closet because she seems to have a never ending supply of fashionable clothes and shoes. 

When it feels appropriate I try to mentor some of the younger folks on my team on basic life skills, particularly the women (as I am one too).  In her performance review we talked about her career goals and life goals.  She would like to move our of her parents place but "can't afford it".   Our company matches retirement savings up to 4% of salary, but she doesn't contribute anything, again because she "can't afford it". 

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.  I fear for the young engineers she flirts with in the office.

ARGH!   

At 22, I earned $38k per year and had moved out and was supporting my full time student husband, owned a car, ate out, owned a few nice outfits, paid for a honeymoon, etc.  I realize inflation and all in the past 20 year would make this seem like $60k now..., but still.   "Can't afford it" indeed!

LennStar

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 860
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17518 on: May 02, 2017, 02:56:36 AM »
As for the clothes, I worked at a company where the CFO was a single woman in her fifties, making $250k/yr. She always had expensive outfits, and lots of them. She had a house in Texas that she visited a few times a year, and a house in PA that she lived in.

She told us that she was buying a bigger house in PA, and a few people said they'd help her move. It turned out that the reason she needed a bigger house was that she had filled the current three-bedroom house with clothes. The people who helped with the move said that every closet was stuffed, and the bedrooms were filled with department store-style clothes racks. She also admitted that the reason she hadn't sold her house in Texas was that it was also stuffed with clothes and shoes.
UFF!!!

I cannot even imagine that. She doesn't us a room as walkable wardrobe but a whole house?

I suspect half of the clothes she never wore even once.

Did she talk with a specialist about her mental problem? And I don't mean someone from the clothes store.
Reminds me of this:
https://arstechnica.com/business/2017/05/facebook-helped-advertisers-target-teens-who-feel-worthless/

Quote
According to the report, the selling point of this 2017 document is that Facebook's algorithms can determine, and allow advertisers to pinpoint, "moments when young people need a confidence boost."

by buying useless suff, no doubt.

Dave1442397

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 496
  • Location: NJ
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17519 on: May 02, 2017, 07:02:56 AM »
As for the clothes, I worked at a company where the CFO was a single woman in her fifties, making $250k/yr. She always had expensive outfits, and lots of them. She had a house in Texas that she visited a few times a year, and a house in PA that she lived in.

She told us that she was buying a bigger house in PA, and a few people said they'd help her move. It turned out that the reason she needed a bigger house was that she had filled the current three-bedroom house with clothes. The people who helped with the move said that every closet was stuffed, and the bedrooms were filled with department store-style clothes racks. She also admitted that the reason she hadn't sold her house in Texas was that it was also stuffed with clothes and shoes.
UFF!!!

I cannot even imagine that. She doesn't us a room as walkable wardrobe but a whole house?

I suspect half of the clothes she never wore even once.

Did she talk with a specialist about her mental problem? And I don't mean someone from the clothes store.
Reminds me of this:
https://arstechnica.com/business/2017/05/facebook-helped-advertisers-target-teens-who-feel-worthless/

Quote
According to the report, the selling point of this 2017 document is that Facebook's algorithms can determine, and allow advertisers to pinpoint, "moments when young people need a confidence boost."

by buying useless suff, no doubt.

I'm sure she's still buying more and more :) I know she got the CEO position not long after I left, so if anything, the spending probably increased.

BuffaloStache

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 433
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17520 on: May 02, 2017, 07:14:52 AM »
It's extremely frustrating, but it seems like the cycle is being set up to repeat itself:
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year...

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.   

I feel like that many times leads to what was mentioned earlier in this thread:

...The coworker had just divorced her husband who, as a head of a hospital wing, was bringing in over half a million dollars a year... So they divorced, the judge didn't award alimony, and she had to go back to work after many years of staying at home.  She landed in my group, earning less than one tenth of what her ex used to bring home. 
...boy, dealing with a fallen socialite is something I will not miss.

Hopefully you can influence her onto the path of self sufficiency! FWIW, I'm a male engineer and some of the brightest people I know are independent female engineers that work at my company.
My Log

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5390
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17521 on: May 02, 2017, 07:55:55 AM »
It's extremely frustrating, but it seems like the cycle is being set up to repeat itself:
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year...

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.   

I feel like that many times leads to what was mentioned earlier in this thread:

...The coworker had just divorced her husband who, as a head of a hospital wing, was bringing in over half a million dollars a year... So they divorced, the judge didn't award alimony, and she had to go back to work after many years of staying at home.  She landed in my group, earning less than one tenth of what her ex used to bring home. 
...boy, dealing with a fallen socialite is something I will not miss.

Hopefully you can influence her onto the path of self sufficiency! FWIW, I'm a male engineer and some of the brightest people I know are independent female engineers that work at my company.

I feel like female engineers have much more drive than their male counterparts in most cases.  They are out to prove they can hack it in what is traditionally male dominated.  My wife is one and she has issues with RE b/c of the drive to prove she can do it all ... many others i run into are quite similar.  - more so in the millenial generation than previous generations as well.  maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

mm1970

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4564
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17522 on: May 02, 2017, 09:25:17 AM »
Downside is that when I go elsewhere (other than NY/CT) and people order in/take us out for pizza, it's invariably inferior.  Was at our office in Tulsa once and they ordered in from "the best pizza place in town" and it was almost inedible.

I've lived in Buffalo for twenty-plus years now. I once ordered wings from the hotel bar when I was at a conference in Tempe, Arizona. I know the taste of disappointment.
I've lived in California for 20 years.

Imagine what it's like when my family in western PA want to take me out for Mexican food.

mm1970

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4564
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17523 on: May 02, 2017, 09:38:14 AM »
It's extremely frustrating, but it seems like the cycle is being set up to repeat itself:
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year...

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.   

I feel like that many times leads to what was mentioned earlier in this thread:

...The coworker had just divorced her husband who, as a head of a hospital wing, was bringing in over half a million dollars a year... So they divorced, the judge didn't award alimony, and she had to go back to work after many years of staying at home.  She landed in my group, earning less than one tenth of what her ex used to bring home. 
...boy, dealing with a fallen socialite is something I will not miss.

Hopefully you can influence her onto the path of self sufficiency! FWIW, I'm a male engineer and some of the brightest people I know are independent female engineers that work at my company.

I feel like female engineers have much more drive than their male counterparts in most cases.  They are out to prove they can hack it in what is traditionally male dominated.  My wife is one and she has issues with RE b/c of the drive to prove she can do it all ... many others i run into are quite similar.  - more so in the millenial generation than previous generations as well.  maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.
Interesting.

As a Gen-X female engineer, I have to say that my experience with female engineers is that yes, on average, we have more drive.  Part of that is that we've had to have more drive.

In high school, we were outnumbered.
In college, we were really outnumbered. 
You had to really WANT it to be an engineer.

It's kind of like how some people like to compare Indian and Chinese engineers with Americans, and talk about how much BETTER the Asian engineers are.  When really: for the most part, we only get the cream of the crop here.  It's *very hard* (or used to be) to get to the US from Asia to go to college or grad school.  So it's not a fair comparison.

My experience with female engineers ranges from boomers (aged >60) down to millenials.  I'd have to say that all of them have been pretty driven.

However, your comment about "older around the block engineers" was interesting.  I've found, as I get "older" (I'm almost 47), that - it kind of sucks.  There are literally no other women in my building.  Most of the senior female engineers here have quit in frustration or been laid off (we had a large layoff and shut down an entire division).  The glass ceiling in my industry is pretty damned thick, and it can be wearing.  I've had my own series of ups and downs, and I tell you - the downs were pretty bad.  It only takes a single bad, sexist boss to really derail you for several years.  Luckily, that guy got laid off in the same large division layoff.

If other senior women have similar experiences, I can imagine that the glass ceiling, getting talked over in meetings, being ignored, being asked to take notes, getting passed over for promotion - well, it's pretty wearing.  At some point I had to really come to terms with it and make a decision - fighting it was really not good for my health.  So, I took a deep breath, got a new boss, decided to make the best of the job that I have.  For now.  Learn new things and try to enjoy each day and each project. 

mm1970

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4564
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17524 on: May 02, 2017, 09:39:51 AM »
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year, lives with her parents and must have a large closet because she seems to have a never ending supply of fashionable clothes and shoes. 

When it feels appropriate I try to mentor some of the younger folks on my team on basic life skills, particularly the women (as I am one too).  In her performance review we talked about her career goals and life goals.  She would like to move our of her parents place but "can't afford it".   Our company matches retirement savings up to 4% of salary, but she doesn't contribute anything, again because she "can't afford it". 

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.  I fear for the young engineers she flirts with in the office.
Maybe you should mentor the young engineers about the value of choosing a life partner who is not a spendypants.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5390
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17525 on: May 02, 2017, 09:45:21 AM »
It's extremely frustrating, but it seems like the cycle is being set up to repeat itself:
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year...

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.   

I feel like that many times leads to what was mentioned earlier in this thread:

...The coworker had just divorced her husband who, as a head of a hospital wing, was bringing in over half a million dollars a year... So they divorced, the judge didn't award alimony, and she had to go back to work after many years of staying at home.  She landed in my group, earning less than one tenth of what her ex used to bring home. 
...boy, dealing with a fallen socialite is something I will not miss.

Hopefully you can influence her onto the path of self sufficiency! FWIW, I'm a male engineer and some of the brightest people I know are independent female engineers that work at my company.

I feel like female engineers have much more drive than their male counterparts in most cases.  They are out to prove they can hack it in what is traditionally male dominated.  My wife is one and she has issues with RE b/c of the drive to prove she can do it all ... many others i run into are quite similar.  - more so in the millenial generation than previous generations as well.  maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.
Interesting.

As a Gen-X female engineer, I have to say that my experience with female engineers is that yes, on average, we have more drive.  Part of that is that we've had to have more drive.

In high school, we were outnumbered.
In college, we were really outnumbered. 
You had to really WANT it to be an engineer.

It's kind of like how some people like to compare Indian and Chinese engineers with Americans, and talk about how much BETTER the Asian engineers are.  When really: for the most part, we only get the cream of the crop here.  It's *very hard* (or used to be) to get to the US from Asia to go to college or grad school.  So it's not a fair comparison.

My experience with female engineers ranges from boomers (aged >60) down to millenials.  I'd have to say that all of them have been pretty driven.

However, your comment about "older around the block engineers" was interesting.  I've found, as I get "older" (I'm almost 47), that - it kind of sucks.  There are literally no other women in my building.  Most of the senior female engineers here have quit in frustration or been laid off (we had a large layoff and shut down an entire division).  The glass ceiling in my industry is pretty damned thick, and it can be wearing.  I've had my own series of ups and downs, and I tell you - the downs were pretty bad.  It only takes a single bad, sexist boss to really derail you for several years.  Luckily, that guy got laid off in the same large division layoff.

If other senior women have similar experiences, I can imagine that the glass ceiling, getting talked over in meetings, being ignored, being asked to take notes, getting passed over for promotion - well, it's pretty wearing.  At some point I had to really come to terms with it and make a decision - fighting it was really not good for my health.  So, I took a deep breath, got a new boss, decided to make the best of the job that I have.  For now.  Learn new things and try to enjoy each day and each project.

thats a pretty good take on the why of the drive going away in some i've seen.  i bet that has a lot to do with it.  and yeah my wife had her first Lead tell her flat out he didnt think women should be engineers and that her question was dumb. he was 65+ years old and was not fired for the statement.  on top of that she got a terrible review from him that year that cost her even an inflation based raise.  So i can really see how that could wear on someone over a career.  She's not outspoken, but did report it.  If I were in that situation I'd have called HR into the room as their only basis for not giving me a raise was based on a sexist bigots view of my work. 

I see many women advance around me at my company.  Maybe the previous gen's have helped wear down that glass ceiling.  I would say almost a disproportionate number of women to men are advancing when you look at the number of men to women.  but i dont personally care who the person is sex or otherwise if they are good at something keep promoting them thru that, my Dept manager is a woman and she is fantastic. Its actually helped us recruit more women to our team vs another team that has 2 Males leading it.  Its a strong selling point for many female college graduates to have a female boss breaking down barriers above them.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

thesvenster

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 374
  • Location: Palmer, Alaska
    • My MMM Forum Journal
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17526 on: May 02, 2017, 10:41:07 AM »
Chatting with instructor from a class the company gave. He mention he had moved 4 months ago to a different nearby town. Then he mentioned he had a storage unit.

"Well you have to be careful with those," I said. "If you keep your stuff in storage for too long next thing you know, you could have replaced everything in it for what the fees are over the months." (I said this thinking that he had gotten a storage unit to coincide with his move)

I think what I said didn't register in the least. "I've had the storage unit for 8 years. It's 8x12, more space than I'll ever use. And it is only $75 a month!"

Tasty Pinecones

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 763
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17527 on: May 02, 2017, 10:49:08 AM »
And $900 a year... It adds up doesn't it...

I wonder if his brain would registered that statement?

mbl

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17528 on: May 02, 2017, 12:01:04 PM »
Quote
I feel like female engineers have much more drive than their male counterparts in most cases.  They are out to prove they can hack it in what is traditionally male dominated.  My wife is one and she has issues with RE b/c of the drive to prove she can do it all ... many others i run into are quite similar.  - more so in the millenial generation than previous generations as well.  maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.

I can't tell where you're from, where you've worked or how old you are...perhaps I missed it in the previous posts.

I'm one of those female engineers that has been working over 35 years.   California, across Canada, Europe, New York, and a number of other assignments. 

Not sure what radar space you function in but my experience doesn't support your statement.   

Engineers whether they've been men or women vary based on all that has gone into making them and bringing them to their current position.   I've worked in the defense industry which while male dominated still provided women opportunities that were based on their abilities, work ethic and personality.   

 To say that you "feel"  and go on to generalize that female engineers have more drive based on their gender is so ridiculous that I laughed when I read that comment.   As I laugh at any other sweeping generalization.   
I've encountered female engineers who continued as individual contributors, team leads, project/product managers, dept mgrs, division mgrs,  VPs,  and all the way up.   And men who've been in the same type of positions.   

I think in many cases their drive was equal to those that they aspired to work amongst...whether male or female.   They possessed the traits, knowledge, experience or whatever was being sought for the particular jobs that they were seeking.  As well as the network relationships,  luck, or just plain old hard work.  And there were those that were promoted or given opportunities simply based on ruthlessness...this applies to people....not necessarily either gender.

Your statement says that the only reason older female engineers are tolerated is because of the need to maintain diversity?  What BS. 

mbl

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17529 on: May 02, 2017, 12:16:43 PM »
Downside is that when I go elsewhere (other than NY/CT) and people order in/take us out for pizza, it's invariably inferior.  Was at our office in Tulsa once and they ordered in from "the best pizza place in town" and it was almost inedible.

I've lived in Buffalo for twenty-plus years now. I once ordered wings from the hotel bar when I was at a conference in Tempe, Arizona. I know the taste of disappointment.
I've lived in California for 20 years.

Imagine what it's like when my family in western PA want to take me out for Mexican food.

Mexican food in Western NY or PA....not sure where you are referring to but in the small towns in upstate NY there are some great small Mom and Pop Chicano eateries.   
What you might be overlooking or simply not know is that the first generation residents of these communities came here to work on the many farms that hire them for the harvests.   Over time many have stayed and opened businesses(particularly restaurants) in these towns.  I've lived in California and these places seem just as good to me and just as "authentic" to suit the tastes of any purist.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5390
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17530 on: May 02, 2017, 01:53:08 PM »
Quote
I feel like female engineers have much more drive than their male counterparts in most cases.  They are out to prove they can hack it in what is traditionally male dominated.  My wife is one and she has issues with RE b/c of the drive to prove she can do it all ... many others i run into are quite similar.  - more so in the millenial generation than previous generations as well.  maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.

I can't tell where you're from, where you've worked or how old you are...perhaps I missed it in the previous posts.

I'm one of those female engineers that has been working over 35 years.   California, across Canada, Europe, New York, and a number of other assignments. 

Not sure what radar space you function in but my experience doesn't support your statement.   

Engineers whether they've been men or women vary based on all that has gone into making them and bringing them to their current position.   I've worked in the defense industry which while male dominated still provided women opportunities that were based on their abilities, work ethic and personality.   

 To say that you "feel"  and go on to generalize that female engineers have more drive based on their gender is so ridiculous that I laughed when I read that comment.   As I laugh at any other sweeping generalization.   
I've encountered female engineers who continued as individual contributors, team leads, project/product managers, dept mgrs, division mgrs,  VPs,  and all the way up.   And men who've been in the same type of positions.   

I think in many cases their drive was equal to those that they aspired to work amongst...whether male or female.   They possessed the traits, knowledge, experience or whatever was being sought for the particular jobs that they were seeking.  As well as the network relationships,  luck, or just plain old hard work.  And there were those that were promoted or given opportunities simply based on ruthlessness...this applies to people....not necessarily either gender.

Your statement says that the only reason older female engineers are tolerated is because of the need to maintain diversity?  What BS.

notice i didnt say ALL but its cool to get offended now so i get it. why not continue reading the constructive conversation that happened after that.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

merula

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 785
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17531 on: May 02, 2017, 02:41:09 PM »
Quote
maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.

Your statement says that the only reason older female engineers are tolerated is because of the need to maintain diversity?  What BS.

notice i didnt say ALL but its cool to get offended now so i get it. why not continue reading the constructive conversation that happened after that.

It's just as insulting to stereotype "alot" of a group of people as it is to say that "all" of them have this trait. Neither is true.

Also: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

MrMoogle

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 918
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Huntsville, AL
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17532 on: May 02, 2017, 03:03:49 PM »
Quote
maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.

Your statement says that the only reason older female engineers are tolerated is because of the need to maintain diversity?  What BS.

notice i didnt say ALL but its cool to get offended now so i get it. why not continue reading the constructive conversation that happened after that.

It's just as insulting to stereotype "alot" of a group of people as it is to say that "all" of them have this trait. Neither is true.

Also: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
I love that link.

Why is "a lot" just as bad as "all"?  To me "a lot" means many, not necessarily more than half, just more than I was expecting.  Also, it was limited to his experience, and he even said it may not be true everywhere.  I'm not sure how what he said isn't true either.  I don't see that many female engineers, so if I saw one who had their job due to a diversification requirement, that would be a lot to me. 

mm1970

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4564
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17533 on: May 02, 2017, 04:09:24 PM »
Downside is that when I go elsewhere (other than NY/CT) and people order in/take us out for pizza, it's invariably inferior.  Was at our office in Tulsa once and they ordered in from "the best pizza place in town" and it was almost inedible.

I've lived in Buffalo for twenty-plus years now. I once ordered wings from the hotel bar when I was at a conference in Tempe, Arizona. I know the taste of disappointment.
I've lived in California for 20 years.

Imagine what it's like when my family in western PA want to take me out for Mexican food.

Mexican food in Western NY or PA....not sure where you are referring to but in the small towns in upstate NY there are some great small Mom and Pop Chicano eateries.   
What you might be overlooking or simply not know is that the first generation residents of these communities came here to work on the many farms that hire them for the harvests.   Over time many have stayed and opened businesses(particularly restaurants) in these towns.  I've lived in California and these places seem just as good to me and just as "authentic" to suit the tastes of any purist.
Oh I'm sure they exist.  Just not in my specific home town!

SavinMaven

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17534 on: May 03, 2017, 07:34:04 AM »
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year, lives with her parents and must have a large closet because she seems to have a never ending supply of fashionable clothes and shoes. 

Maybe she's a spender, and maybe she's not... as a Gen X'er I'm often delighted at the creativity of the young'uns... they've made renting popular for a wide variety of goods: bike rentals from point to point in big cities, Rent the Runway so you can borrow designer clothes instead of buying them, rental wedding dresses - in fact you can even rent a regular wardrobe, from Le Tote or a similar company. It would LOOK like you have a never ending supply of clothes, but only because you pay $39/month and send each piece back after you wear it once. :)

Linda_Norway

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17535 on: May 03, 2017, 11:17:39 AM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5390
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17536 on: May 03, 2017, 11:39:58 AM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

thats not an insane price for a collector car.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2881
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17537 on: May 03, 2017, 11:56:54 AM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

thats not an insane price for a collector car.

And bought correctly it will not lose any significant value and might even appreciate a little.
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5390
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17538 on: May 03, 2017, 12:43:15 PM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

thats not an insane price for a collector car.

And bought correctly it will not lose any significant value and might even appreciate a little.

depending on the car it could be worth much more than his cost to get it to Norway.  I dont know the market there though.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

mtn

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1251
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17539 on: May 03, 2017, 03:01:48 PM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

thats not an insane price for a collector car.

And bought correctly it will not lose any significant value and might even appreciate a little.

depending on the car it could be worth much more than his cost to get it to Norway.  I dont know the market there though.

It is either Norway or Finland that the import taxes are ridiculous. My dad sold a guitar to someone in [Finland or Norway] and the guy paid over $13,000 for the guitar when all was said and done; over $2500 of that was tax.

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2881
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17540 on: May 03, 2017, 03:22:10 PM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

thats not an insane price for a collector car.

And bought correctly it will not lose any significant value and might even appreciate a little.

depending on the car it could be worth much more than his cost to get it to Norway.  I dont know the market there though.

It is either Norway or Finland that the import taxes are ridiculous. My dad sold a guitar to someone in [Finland or Norway] and the guy paid over $13,000 for the guitar when all was said and done; over $2500 of that was tax.

Is there an exclusion/reduction for items of a certain age?  I know in some areas, it is extremely expensive to buy/register new cars, but extremely cheap for old/antique cars. 
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

MrMoogle

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 918
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Huntsville, AL
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17541 on: May 03, 2017, 03:39:02 PM »

It is either Norway or Finland that the import taxes are ridiculous. My dad sold a guitar to someone in [Finland or Norway] and the guy paid over $13,000 for the guitar when all was said and done; over $2500 of that was tax.

Is there an exclusion/reduction for items of a certain age?  I know in some areas, it is extremely expensive to buy/register new cars, but extremely cheap for old/antique cars. 
In Japan they have the opposite.  Old cars are super expensive to own because of registration and emissions regulation exemptions.

firelight

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 966
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17542 on: May 03, 2017, 03:58:18 PM »
My friend bought a BMW in Germany and had it shipped to US. He said it was cheaper than buying it from dealer here. So maybe there is some arbitrage that your colleague is taking advantage of.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3405
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17543 on: May 03, 2017, 04:57:37 PM »
My friend bought a BMW in Germany and had it shipped to US. He said it was cheaper than buying it from dealer here. So maybe there is some arbitrage that your colleague is taking advantage of.

Interesting, I was reading about an Indian guy in NJ that wasn't allowed to buy a BMW from the dealership because they were scared he would ship it to the Middle East.

Tasty Pinecones

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 763
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17544 on: May 04, 2017, 02:43:54 AM »
Do you mean they were afraid they couldn't repo the car if necessary b/c it would be out of the country? Makes sense.

LennStar

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 860
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17545 on: May 04, 2017, 03:27:14 AM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

thats not an insane price for a collector car.

And bought correctly it will not lose any significant value and might even appreciate a little.

depending on the car it could be worth much more than his cost to get it to Norway.  I dont know the market there though.

It is either Norway or Finland that the import taxes are ridiculous. My dad sold a guitar to someone in [Finland or Norway] and the guy paid over $13,000 for the guitar when all was said and done; over $2500 of that was tax.
That likely was not an "Import Tax" but the VAT, which is 24% in Finland.
Of course if you import things then that VAT is applied as import tax, because you can't put a VAT on imports. Legal nitpicking.

Dave1442397

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 496
  • Location: NJ
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17546 on: May 04, 2017, 06:14:49 AM »
Do you mean they were afraid they couldn't repo the car if necessary b/c it would be out of the country? Makes sense.

Not quite. It was actually a Mercedes, and there's a lot of money to be made in exporting certain models.

http://jalopnik.com/new-jersey-dealer-refuses-sale-of-mercedes-to-indian-ma-1784946862

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2881
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17547 on: May 04, 2017, 07:49:00 AM »

It is either Norway or Finland that the import taxes are ridiculous. My dad sold a guitar to someone in [Finland or Norway] and the guy paid over $13,000 for the guitar when all was said and done; over $2500 of that was tax.

Is there an exclusion/reduction for items of a certain age?  I know in some areas, it is extremely expensive to buy/register new cars, but extremely cheap for old/antique cars. 
In Japan they have the opposite.  Old cars are super expensive to own because of registration and emissions regulation exemptions.

That's mostly a program to support their domestic automakers.
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

neverrun

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 291
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17548 on: May 04, 2017, 09:01:04 AM »
It's extremely frustrating, but it seems like the cycle is being set up to repeat itself:
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year...

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.   

I feel like that many times leads to what was mentioned earlier in this thread:

...The coworker had just divorced her husband who, as a head of a hospital wing, was bringing in over half a million dollars a year... So they divorced, the judge didn't award alimony, and she had to go back to work after many years of staying at home.  She landed in my group, earning less than one tenth of what her ex used to bring home. 
...boy, dealing with a fallen socialite is something I will not miss.

Hopefully you can influence her onto the path of self sufficiency! FWIW, I'm a male engineer and some of the brightest people I know are independent female engineers that work at my company.

I feel like female engineers have much more drive than their male counterparts in most cases.  They are out to prove they can hack it in what is traditionally male dominated.  My wife is one and she has issues with RE b/c of the drive to prove she can do it all ... many others i run into are quite similar.  - more so in the millenial generation than previous generations as well.  maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.

Reminds me of a "small talk" conversation with a male boss from another office recently.  I'm not an engineer but am in a Male dominated industry.  He mentioned that he notices we women seemed to really say what we mean.  Umm myself and the other woman he was talking about are "senior" (have been in the industry for 10+ years) I'm not sure when it happens but after having to continually prove ourselves sometime between 5-15 years in you develop a case of the "I don't give a fucks" with a lot of office politics/small talk.

ETA:  early on in my career I had a boss tell me I should modify the way I talk, "stop talking like a girl" because guys don't want to deal with their wives at work.  I didn't report him because he honestly thought that he was giving me solid career advise.  It was hard to take him seriously after that.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 09:13:55 AM by neverrun »

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3405
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17549 on: May 04, 2017, 09:16:45 AM »
Do you mean they were afraid they couldn't repo the car if necessary b/c it would be out of the country? Makes sense.

Not quite. It was actually a Mercedes, and there's a lot of money to be made in exporting certain models.

http://jalopnik.com/new-jersey-dealer-refuses-sale-of-mercedes-to-indian-ma-1784946862

My mistake on the car.