Overheard at Work

[jinga nation]

Long time lurker... thanks for the entertainment!

Company provides 401(K) match through Vanguard, with a good but limited fund options. You get 4% for your first 6%. Used to be 100% match but company split into two, and HR decided they wanted to make benefits "in line with competitor offerings". We also get 5% off company stock, which has done decently well.

CW1 used to work overseas, so prefers to use his UBS financial advisor and doesn't contribute for his free money.
CW2 asks me always how to start saving and investing. Told him to read Lazy Portfolios wiki on Bogleheads and stop eating out. He's done the latter only.
CW3 decided to forego the company 401(k) and visited a Fidelity financial advisor and consolidated all her 401(k) there. Told her it was good to consolidate, but did you check the expense ratios? Huh, what's that?

Surprising, given the talent in my workplace, all IT/engineers, that less than 50% contribute to company 401(k). Less to discounted stock. Then they look at me funny when they find out about my condos, paid for in cash.  Everyone wants to get into RE, but no one wants to make the financial effort of creating that cash buy. "Free money" requires effort, people!

The discounted stock is usually a bad buy (just like any individual stock), but at least you get 5% off?

Yes, 5% off. Stock has been up for the 4.5 years I've been with the company. My boss has been buying for 14 years, and market data shows that he was wise. I agree with you otherwise. I've been lucky that the only other company stock that I owned did good during the recession years. I know others who've been burnt, so it is a case of buyer beware. However, I buy very little; a total loss would not affect my lifestyle.

[nawhite]

Long time lurker... thanks for the entertainment!

Company provides 401(K) match through Vanguard, with a good but limited fund options. You get 4% for your first 6%. Used to be 100% match but company split into two, and HR decided they wanted to make benefits "in line with competitor offerings". We also get 5% off company stock, which has done decently well.

CW1 used to work overseas, so prefers to use his UBS financial advisor and doesn't contribute for his free money.
CW2 asks me always how to start saving and investing. Told him to read Lazy Portfolios wiki on Bogleheads and stop eating out. He's done the latter only.
CW3 decided to forego the company 401(k) and visited a Fidelity financial advisor and consolidated all her 401(k) there. Told her it was good to consolidate, but did you check the expense ratios? Huh, what's that?

Surprising, given the talent in my workplace, all IT/engineers, that less than 50% contribute to company 401(k). Less to discounted stock. Then they look at me funny when they find out about my condos, paid for in cash.  Everyone wants to get into RE, but no one wants to make the financial effort of creating that cash buy. "Free money" requires effort, people!

The discounted stock is usually a bad buy (just like any individual stock), but at least you get 5% off?

Yes, 5% off. Stock has been up for the 4.5 years I've been with the company. My boss has been buying for 14 years, and market data shows that he was wise. I agree with you otherwise. I've been lucky that the only other company stock that I owned did good during the recession years. I know others who've been burnt, so it is a case of buyer beware. However, I buy very little; a total loss would not affect my lifestyle.

How long do you have to hold before you sell, how much can you buy at once, and what are the trading fees? Low trading fees, large purchase allowances and no holding requirement would make that program a goose that lays golden eggs. With great terms, I would have no problems churning $1000s a month through it. Certainly not a bad buy. All depends on the fine print.

[gimp]

With ESPP plans, usually:

- You can only contribute x% of your salary (5%, 10%, 15% are common)
- You have an enrollment period when you can decide if you want in, then a contribution period (often 6 months), then at the end you get all the stock at once
- Some companies will give you the lower of the beginning or end price of the contribution period, then apply the discount, so if the price is up you win, if down you're still fine
- You usually can only sell during certain periods, but they're reasonable (eg: never near earnings reports, or product announcements, etc)
- You go through a brokerage, and they might take a few bucks per transaction

For example, I might put 10% of my salary into ESPP in six months, get a 15% discount on the lower of the beginning or end price, then have the stock appear in a brokerage account at the end of six months, which I might immediately sell or sell as soon as possible (or hold on to, if I want to be risky); and it might cost me $10 to sell it all. $10 would be, in this example, about 0.2%.

Taxes:

- Upon purchasing, you're taxed on the discount
- Upon selling, you're taxed on the profit (sold price vs market price when bought - you already got taxed on market price vs buy price)
- If you hold it for a year, you pay long-term capital gains on the profit; otherwise short-term (US).

It only profits you to hold it to get the long-term rate if you think the company will do at least almost as well as your favorite index. (Almost as well as, meaning it doesn't have to beat it, because you win on paying less tax and you win on not paying an expense ratio.)

This horse has been beaten to death and back to life on this forum.

[C. K.]

... accepting and embracing the possibility of breaking down on the road was very liberating.

Yes! You're the first person I've ever heard say that. That's exactly where I was about 5 months into the new-to-me beater. I'd finally accepted it. I had my safety nets, I didn't drive it much anyway and all was fine.

The relatives who saw me buy it said they financed a new car because it was more reliable than something like mine. Well, mine eventually became a taxi for them for a week when theirs was repossessed.

I was not happy at their distress, but I was thrilled to be in a position to help. And it just reaffirmed the pay-with-cash thing so that the car, house, whatever, is yours.

[iwasjustwondering]

...she is convinced they are worthless and won't listen to any other viewpoints.  I don't like second CW as much as first CW, so I just don't bother with her, even though it bothers *me* to think that someone would just give up $15,000 because it's easier than spending three minutes clicking "cash out" on a website.

I can't imagine working with any one person, let alone multiple people, so stupid about leaving $10,000 on the table.

While I am skeptical myself about "free money" because it usually is not free, it's very strange that your co-workers don't get it about the great windfall awaiting them. Usually word-of-mouth experiences like yours carry much weight. Perhaps they are hearing the experiences of other like you who cashed in their points for crap and they saw taxes come out of their check.

I have to say that is a robust rewards point system that your place of work offer! wow!

I think he works at that factory that makes screen doors for submarines.

AMIRITE?

That made me laugh really, really hard.  Thank you.  I'm a "she," not  "he," fyi. 

Yes, these two coworkers are just extremely well-dressed and spend a lot of money.  I told CW2 that I try to be frugal, and she said that was silly, and that every time her husband tells her they should save money, she just tells him they can always make more.  It's a philosophy.  I was with her once at breakfast, and her card was declined for a $6 charge (this is a woman who makes more than $200,000 per year).  Neither one of them is very good at navigating benefits or getting the most out of what the company offers us.  CW1 actually forgot to sign up for health insurance one year -- she put it off and put it off, and then decided to sign up at night, from home, on the last day of registration, only to find that registration ended at 7pm and she was too late.  Aye yay yay. 

[eyePod]

...she is convinced they are worthless and won't listen to any other viewpoints.  I don't like second CW as much as first CW, so I just don't bother with her, even though it bothers *me* to think that someone would just give up $15,000 because it's easier than spending three minutes clicking "cash out" on a website.

I can't imagine working with any one person, let alone multiple people, so stupid about leaving $10,000 on the table.

While I am skeptical myself about "free money" because it usually is not free, it's very strange that your co-workers don't get it about the great windfall awaiting them. Usually word-of-mouth experiences like yours carry much weight. Perhaps they are hearing the experiences of other like you who cashed in their points for crap and they saw taxes come out of their check.

I have to say that is a robust rewards point system that your place of work offer! wow!

I think he works at that factory that makes screen doors for submarines.

AMIRITE?

That made me laugh really, really hard.  Thank you.  I'm a "she," not  "he," fyi. 

Yes, these two coworkers are just extremely well-dressed and spend a lot of money.  I told CW2 that I try to be frugal, and she said that was silly, and that every time her husband tells her they should save money, she just tells him they can always make more.  It's a philosophy.  I was with her once at breakfast, and her card was declined for a $6 charge (this is a woman who makes more than $200,000 per year).  Neither one of them is very good at navigating benefits or getting the most out of what the company offers us.  CW1 actually forgot to sign up for health insurance one year -- she put it off and put it off, and then decided to sign up at night, from home, on the last day of registration, only to find that registration ended at 7pm and she was too late.  Aye yay yay.

This just blows my mind. Someone making 200k per year and the fact that they have trouble paying $6. She should be smacked. Did you end up paying for her?

[Elderwood17]

The relatives who saw me buy it said they financed a new car because it was more reliable than something like mine. Well, mine eventually became a taxi for them for a week when theirs was repossessed.

I was not happy at their distress, but I was thrilled to be in a position to help. And it just reaffirmed the pay-with-cash thing so that the car, house, whatever, is yours.

The paid for beater rescues the repossessed new car!  I love it!!

[senecando]

Why do volvo drivers seem to often get pissed when they get passed, and try to compete? It's volvo drivers, and men driving minivans, the two most common types of drivers who try to speed up when they get passed. (And women driving huge SUVs, too.)

You're misunderstanding; they've been accelerating the whole time and are just now getting to highway speed.

'92 checkin' in.

[innkeeper77]

You're misunderstanding; they've been accelerating the whole time and are just now getting to highway speed.

'92 checkin' in.

I've had that problem a lot driving my subaru, especially when it is loaded down. People seem really surprised when you pass them again, but it seems ridiculous since they decided to jackrabbit start from lights....

On topic: I work at a financial institution, and the most common thing I hear from my coworkers is "I'm so broke!".

[ketchup]

Why do volvo drivers seem to often get pissed when they get passed, and try to compete? It's volvo drivers, and men driving minivans, the two most common types of drivers who try to speed up when they get passed. (And women driving huge SUVs, too.)

You're misunderstanding; they've been accelerating the whole time and are just now getting to highway speed.

'92 checkin' in.

Yep.  I had a '96 non-turbo Volvo wagon.  Not a speed demon.  My current '99 Chevy Metro and '92 Buick Roadmaster are even slower.  The Metro is the only car I've driven where I fairly-routinely find myself actually "flooring it," especially on short highway on-ramps.  And people still give me attitude.

[Caella]

Let me contribute to the clown car thingy.

We have several (free and secured) parking lots at work. I think it's more than enough for everybody, every time i arrived, at anytime, there always were plenty of space.
There is one parking lot closest to the door, and this one always fill up very soon in the morning, since everyone wants to walk less. To the other parking lots you have to walk a little, something like half a mile to the farthest. And there is a VAN to get the people to and from this lot.

I probably could stop this at the van, but NO!

Everyday people leave for lunch on their cars and when they come back, instead of parking on the free lots, they form a line of cars waiting to get on the closest lot. They stay there, cars on, AC blasting, waiting indefinitely until there are some spot on this lot and they can park there.
One day a coworker complained that she spent HALF AN HOUR waiting on the line.
I just couldn't answer.

[CommonCents]

Coworker told me today he budgets $3/day for all of his food.  He brings his lunch in every single day, needless to say.

[Pooperman]

So in conversation, I mention that I'm switching over to prepaid for my cell, cutting the bill a bit more than in half (SO is too).

Me: Even with the termination fees, I come out ahead by the end of the original contract.
CW: Don't you have an iPad or something you can put on one of the lines to avoid a termination fee for the line? You'd only have to pay the basic data for it.
Me: No. I want to keep my old number.

In my head I'm going 'did you not hear what I said about cutting bill in half, and saving money by the end of when the contract would be? You suggest I get a new number ($10), pay for a basic iPad data plan ($50/mo * 14mo = $700) to avoid a termination fee of $350?' Made nice but wow... How do you math?

[frugledoc]

One day a coworker complained that she spent HALF AN HOUR waiting on the line.
I just couldn't answer.

For when there is no answer...  double face palm

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=double+face+palm&rlz=1C1LENN_enGB496GB496&espv=2&biw=1777&bih=887&tbm=isch&imgil=P2tnwOi7e8PK0M%253A%253BjDdb7PCE4njEJM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwalkingdead.wikia.com%25252Fwiki%25252FFile%25253ADouble_facepalm.jpg&source=iu&pf=m&fir=P2tnwOi7e8PK0M%253A%252CjDdb7PCE4njEJM%252C_&usg=__G8XyaEzIhxKZ-twHf16bU_wetNo%3D&dpr=0.9&ved=0CCoQyjc&ei=qEg0VPSGGo3B7Ab59YDICg#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=P2tnwOi7e8PK0M%253A%3BjDdb7PCE4njEJM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimg2.wikia.nocookie.net%252F__cb20131001135318%252Fwalkingdead%252Fimages%252F0%252F0c%252FDouble_facepalm.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwalkingdead.wikia.com%252Fwiki%252FFile%253ADouble_facepalm.jpg%3B640%3B512

[fb132]

I was at work today, during lunch hour, I told my collegues that I was trying to save 40%+ of my paycheck and instead of getting any support, all I got were people telling me "Why are you doing that for??? Your not living your life, you will regret it." and then another collegue was like "You need debt to live". The worse reaction is when I said I don't own a car, I take the bus to anywhere I go and everyone stares me like an alien and telling me "What do you do when you go out?", I replied "Huh, well I take the bus." and I still would get stares...What the hell is wrong with people. Mind you, I am not even doing anything hardcore, there are mustachians here who save much more than me and ride their bike to work...I could only imagine what my co-workers would say about that, already they think I am crazy for saving 40%. Even worse is that no one bats an eye when someone at work says "I got a 5 year loan on a car", but because I save 40%....I am the weird one. Try to figure that one out.

[dragoncar]

One day a coworker complained that she spent HALF AN HOUR waiting on the line.
I just couldn't answer.

For when there is no answer...  double face palm

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=double+face+palm&rlz=1C1LENN_enGB496GB496&espv=2&biw=1777&bih=887&tbm=isch&imgil=P2tnwOi7e8PK0M%253A%253BjDdb7PCE4njEJM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwalkingdead.wikia.com%25252Fwiki%25252FFile%25253ADouble_facepalm.jpg&source=iu&pf=m&fir=P2tnwOi7e8PK0M%253A%252CjDdb7PCE4njEJM%252C_&usg=__G8XyaEzIhxKZ-twHf16bU_wetNo%3D&dpr=0.9&ved=0CCoQyjc&ei=qEg0VPSGGo3B7Ab59YDICg#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=P2tnwOi7e8PK0M%253A%3BjDdb7PCE4njEJM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimg2.wikia.nocookie.net%252F__cb20131001135318%252Fwalkingdead%252Fimages%252F0%252F0c%252FDouble_facepalm.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwalkingdead.wikia.com%252Fwiki%252FFile%253ADouble_facepalm.jpg%3B640%3B512

[dandarc]

I was at work today, during lunch hour, I told my collegues that I was trying to save 40%+ of my paycheck and instead of getting any support, all I got were people telling me "Why are you doing that for??? Your not living your life, you will regret it." and then another collegue was like "You need debt to live". The worse reaction is when I said I don't own a car, I take the bus to anywhere I go and everyone stares me like an alien and telling me "What do you do when you go out?", I replied "Huh, well I take the bus." and I still would get stares...What the hell is wrong with people. Mind you, I am not even doing anything hardcore, there are mustachians here who save much more than me and ride their bike to work...I could only imagine what my co-workers would say about that, already they think I am crazy for saving 40%. Even worse is that no one bats an eye when someone at work says "I got a 5 year loan on a car", but because I save 40%....I am the weird one. Try to figure that one out.

Reinforces that what most of us are trying to do here is pretty unusual compared to normal.  Means little to no risk of the 'frugal-apocalypse' where the economy collapses because so many people embrace MMM's lifestyle.  Sucks from a commiserating standpoint, but at the very least you've got this board when you want to talk finances.

[fb132]

Thank god for this forum, it will be the last time I'll ever talk about saving money at work, I am surrounded by money morons. My goal is also to buy a condo...cash...no mortgage...and even that was too much to handle for my coworkers. Society sucks :p .

[RyanAtTanagra]

Thank god for this forum, it will be the last time I'll ever talk about saving money at work, I am surrounded by money morons. My goal is also to buy a condo...cash...no mortgage...and even that was too much to handle for my coworkers. Society sucks :p .

Learn to embrace it and realize that the more they say you're doing it wrong, the better you're actually doing.  You can start telling them stories of your frugality so you can all laugh together, but for different reasons.

[Emilyngh]

I was at work today, during lunch hour, I told my collegues that I was trying to save 40%+ of my paycheck and instead of getting any support, all I got were people telling me "Why are you doing that for??? Your not living your life, you will regret it." and then another collegue was like "You need debt to live". The worse reaction is when I said I don't own a car, I take the bus to anywhere I go and everyone stares me like an alien and telling me "What do you do when you go out?", I replied "Huh, well I take the bus." and I still would get stares...What the hell is wrong with people. Mind you, I am not even doing anything hardcore, there are mustachians here who save much more than me and ride their bike to work...I could only imagine what my co-workers would say about that, already they think I am crazy for saving 40%. Even worse is that no one bats an eye when someone at work says "I got a 5 year loan on a car", but because I save 40%....I am the weird one. Try to figure that one out.

Yup.   In the same breath my friends will imply that I'm cheap for not having an iphone (although I do have a smart phone with data even, just a super cheap plan so I don't go crazy with unlimited data), but then sigh about how they have no savings and debt and how  privileged I am to not have to worry about these things and to be able to afford a SAH spouse.   And these are my friends, the people IRL that I feel like most closely share my values.   I can't imagine how others would react.

[LennStar]

Yup.   In the same breath my friends will imply that I'm cheap for not having an iphone (although I do have a smart phone with data even, just a super cheap plan so I don't go crazy with unlimited data), but then sigh about how they have no savings and debt and how  privileged I am to not have to worry about these things and to be able to afford a SAH spouse.   And these are my friends, the people IRL that I feel like most closely share my values.   I can't imagine how others would react.

Now be a good stoic and think about how people must have felt (and feel) over the ages about mixed race or same sex marriage. Compared to that you have it easy and the biggest laugh at the end!

[Travis]

I was at work today, during lunch hour, I told my collegues that I was trying to save 40%+ of my paycheck and instead of getting any support, all I got were people telling me "Why are you doing that for??? Your not living your life, you will regret it." and then another collegue was like "You need debt to live". The worse reaction is when I said I don't own a car, I take the bus to anywhere I go and everyone stares me like an alien and telling me "What do you do when you go out?", I replied "Huh, well I take the bus." and I still would get stares...What the hell is wrong with people. Mind you, I am not even doing anything hardcore, there are mustachians here who save much more than me and ride their bike to work...I could only imagine what my co-workers would say about that, already they think I am crazy for saving 40%. Even worse is that no one bats an eye when someone at work says "I got a 5 year loan on a car", but because I save 40%....I am the weird one. Try to figure that one out.

Yup.   In the same breath my friends will imply that I'm cheap for not having an iphone (although I do have a smart phone with data even, just a super cheap plan so I don't go crazy with unlimited data), but then sigh about how they have no savings and debt and how  privileged I am to not have to worry about these things and to be able to afford a SAH spouse.   And these are my friends, the people IRL that I feel like most closely share my values.   I can't imagine how others would react.

I don't talk finances too much with my friends since I make a lot more than most of them, but when the conversation turned to saving money (which brings out some MMM philosophies and techniques) I was once accused of being so good at saving money because I could afford it.  I still haven't figured out that logic.

[fb132]

I was at work today, during lunch hour, I told my collegues that I was trying to save 40%+ of my paycheck and instead of getting any support, all I got were people telling me "Why are you doing that for??? Your not living your life, you will regret it." and then another collegue was like "You need debt to live". The worse reaction is when I said I don't own a car, I take the bus to anywhere I go and everyone stares me like an alien and telling me "What do you do when you go out?", I replied "Huh, well I take the bus." and I still would get stares...What the hell is wrong with people. Mind you, I am not even doing anything hardcore, there are mustachians here who save much more than me and ride their bike to work...I could only imagine what my co-workers would say about that, already they think I am crazy for saving 40%. Even worse is that no one bats an eye when someone at work says "I got a 5 year loan on a car", but because I save 40%....I am the weird one. Try to figure that one out.

Yup.   In the same breath my friends will imply that I'm cheap for not having an iphone (although I do have a smart phone with data even, just a super cheap plan so I don't go crazy with unlimited data), but then sigh about how they have no savings and debt and how  privileged I am to not have to worry about these things and to be able to afford a SAH spouse.   And these are my friends, the people IRL that I feel like most closely share my values.   I can't imagine how others would react.

I know and the worst part is they always come up with that excuse "You only have one life to live". I mean, since when spending 10$ here, 50$ there means you are happy in the end???I get much more fun just of bike riding or playing sports or even working out and it doesn't cost much or nothing at all in most cases. Plus I love knowing that when I am 40 or 50 years old, I will have the freedom of doing what I want, if I feel like quitting my job, I can, because I will have the means by then to do so, if I want to pursue some other career, I can too.
Although, now my expenses are very low, because I am working on that goal, I don't feel I am living a miserable life doing so, which many of collegues think I am doing, they actually think I am suffering for that long term goal.

It is funny, how society are like sheeps, anything out of their bubble is wrong to them. Everyone has these days, iphones and samsung with crazy data plans, but they seem to forget the world used to exist without them and you can still live today without them. I hate the fact that everyone would know where I am at all time, if I am busy, they will simply have to wait when I am available to call them back, but yet I am the insane one,lol. When I hit 30, I decided to eat healthier and follow a healthy meal plan, yet again, I still got no support from anyone.They don't realize we are a country with terrible eating habits. And since I live in Canada, I actually save the country money (we have healthcare) because my chances of going to the hospital for health related issues drop dramatically because I exercice and eat well, but yet, the still tell me that I am in the wrong and that...yes....I have one life to live so I gotta make the most of it.

I still have yet to find someone in my city who doesn't think like that...and I live in a big city. I am sure there is someone who has the same mustachian values, but I have yet to meet one in real life. This city seems to be infatuated by cars,technology and embraces debt.
Ah it felt great venting here :p .I have to learn that people's mindset will never change unless they accept change.

[Caella]

I was at work today, during lunch hour, I told my collegues that I was trying to save 40%+ of my paycheck and instead of getting any support, all I got were people telling me "Why are you doing that for??? Your not living your life, you will regret it." and then another collegue was like "You need debt to live". The worse reaction is when I said I don't own a car, I take the bus to anywhere I go and everyone stares me like an alien and telling me "What do you do when you go out?", I replied "Huh, well I take the bus." and I still would get stares...What the hell is wrong with people. Mind you, I am not even doing anything hardcore, there are mustachians here who save much more than me and ride their bike to work...I could only imagine what my co-workers would say about that, already they think I am crazy for saving 40%. Even worse is that no one bats an eye when someone at work says "I got a 5 year loan on a car", but because I save 40%....I am the weird one. Try to figure that one out.

Yup.   In the same breath my friends will imply that I'm cheap for not having an iphone (although I do have a smart phone with data even, just a super cheap plan so I don't go crazy with unlimited data), but then sigh about how they have no savings and debt and how  privileged I am to not have to worry about these things and to be able to afford a SAH spouse.   And these are my friends, the people IRL that I feel like most closely share my values.   I can't imagine how others would react.

I don't talk finances too much with my friends since I make a lot more than most of them, but when the conversation turned to saving money (which brings out some MMM philosophies and techniques) I was once accused of being so good at saving money because I could afford it.  I still haven't figured out that logic.

Yeah, i hear that logic a lot too.

Recently i got on a high paying job, which bumped my savings to almost 50%. I still live with the same amount I used to make (and my lifestyle deserve A LOT of facepunches), but somehow, now i'm RICH, and that's why I can afford to pay my credit cards in full every month. Of course that has nothing to do with budgeting and mindful spending, and the fact that I absolutely always paid my cards in full is just a detail.

[plainjane]

I don't talk finances too much with my friends since I make a lot more than most of them, but when the conversation turned to saving money (which brings out some MMM philosophies and techniques) I was once accused of being so good at saving money because I could afford it.  I still haven't figured out that logic.

I made a comment at work about how people should be saving $500/month at a minimum, and later realized that one of the people present was making about 30k/year.  For her, being able to save that amount of money really was a question of affording - there is a base cost of living, especially when you are just starting out.  Also, if you're just at that level, you have a limited ability to buy quality items that will last (e.g. shoes, jackets) or take advantage of bulk buying during sales, so it's hard to pull yourself up without a bit more salary.

[dandarc]

I don't talk finances too much with my friends since I make a lot more than most of them, but when the conversation turned to saving money (which brings out some MMM philosophies and techniques) I was once accused of being so good at saving money because I could afford it.  I still haven't figured out that logic.

I made a comment at work about how people should be saving $500/month at a minimum, and later realized that one of the people present was making about 30k/year.  For her, being able to save that amount of money really was a question of affording - there is a base cost of living, especially when you are just starting out.  Also, if you're just at that level, you have a limited ability to buy quality items that will last (e.g. shoes, jackets) or take advantage of bulk buying during sales, so it's hard to pull yourself up without a bit more salary.

I guess it depends on where you live - but if 30K CW was saving 500/month, she'd still have 24K / year (less taxes) to live on.  Might be a little tight, but there are ways to get by on 2K / month spending.

[GuitarStv]

Let me contribute to the clown car thingy.

We have several (free and secured) parking lots at work. I think it's more than enough for everybody, every time i arrived, at anytime, there always were plenty of space.
There is one parking lot closest to the door, and this one always fill up very soon in the morning, since everyone wants to walk less. To the other parking lots you have to walk a little, something like half a mile to the farthest. And there is a VAN to get the people to and from this lot.

I probably could stop this at the van, but NO!

Everyday people leave for lunch on their cars and when they come back, instead of parking on the free lots, they form a line of cars waiting to get on the closest lot. They stay there, cars on, AC blasting, waiting indefinitely until there are some spot on this lot and they can park there.
One day a coworker complained that she spent HALF AN HOUR waiting on the line.
I just couldn't answer.

We also have this same scenario.  There's a parking lot attached to the building at work, and a larger one a three minute walk from the building.  The larger one has a shuttle bus that runs to/from it every 15 minutes for two hours in the morning and two hours in the afternoon.  Every day I walk by people waiting for the bus rather than walk three minutes.  Mind boggling.

[HairyUpperLip]

We also have this same scenario.  There's a parking lot attached to the building at work, and a larger one a three minute walk from the building.  The larger one has a shuttle bus that runs to/from it every 15 minutes for two hours in the morning and two hours in the afternoon.  Every day I walk by people waiting for the bus rather than walk three minutes.  Mind boggling.

This really sucks to read(hear).  :(

I was born in Toronto. I moved to the States in '93. I've always told people that I think of Canada as a cleaner and less fat version of America. I only know the GTA so that's my idea of "Canada" for the most part, but I always loved it and always thought it was awesome how you barely saw giant SUV's, trucks, and even saw lots of people using the bus or walking with their groceries.

Growing up I thought all that kind of stuff was normal. I've noticed Canadians are starting to get fatter and there is a lot more shitty SUV's roaming the roads of Toronto. It really saddens me to see all of this happening. I really hope Canada doesn't end up just like America.

[Cheddar Stacker]

We also have this same scenario.  There's a parking lot attached to the building at work, and a larger one a three minute walk from the building.  The larger one has a shuttle bus that runs to/from it every 15 minutes for two hours in the morning and two hours in the afternoon.  Every day I walk by people waiting for the bus rather than walk three minutes.  Mind boggling.

This really sucks to read(hear).  :(

I was born in Toronto. I moved to the States in '93. I've always told people that I think of Canada as a cleaner and less fat version of America. I only know the GTA so that's my idea of "Canada" for the most part, but I always loved it and always thought it was awesome how you barely saw giant SUV's, trucks, and even saw lots of people using the bus or walking with their groceries.

Growing up I thought all that kind of stuff was normal. I've noticed Canadians are starting to get fatter and there is a lot more shitty SUV's roaming the roads of Toronto. It really saddens me to see all of this happening. I really hope Canada doesn't end up just like America.

Oh boy, this could get ugly.

I'll just say while I like cleanliness, health, smaller cars, etc., you could do worse than ending up just like Murica.

[RyanAtTanagra]

I've always told people that I think of Canada as a cleaner and less fat version of America.

Good way to make friends in a new place ;-)

[fb132]

We also have this same scenario.  There's a parking lot attached to the building at work, and a larger one a three minute walk from the building.  The larger one has a shuttle bus that runs to/from it every 15 minutes for two hours in the morning and two hours in the afternoon.  Every day I walk by people waiting for the bus rather than walk three minutes.  Mind boggling.

This really sucks to read(hear).  :(

I was born in Toronto. I moved to the States in '93. I've always told people that I think of Canada as a cleaner and less fat version of America. I only know the GTA so that's my idea of "Canada" for the most part, but I always loved it and always thought it was awesome how you barely saw giant SUV's, trucks, and even saw lots of people using the bus or walking with their groceries.

Growing up I thought all that kind of stuff was normal. I've noticed Canadians are starting to get fatter and there is a lot more shitty SUV's roaming the roads of Toronto. It really saddens me to see all of this happening. I really hope Canada doesn't end up just like America.

I live in Montreal and I can tell you, it has become like the US pre-2008 crash especially the housing market.

[neophyte]

I don't talk finances too much with my friends since I make a lot more than most of them, but when the conversation turned to saving money (which brings out some MMM philosophies and techniques) I was once accused of being so good at saving money because I could afford it.  I still haven't figured out that logic.

I made a comment at work about how people should be saving $500/month at a minimum, and later realized that one of the people present was making about 30k/year.  For her, being able to save that amount of money really was a question of affording - there is a base cost of living, especially when you are just starting out.  Also, if you're just at that level, you have a limited ability to buy quality items that will last (e.g. shoes, jackets) or take advantage of bulk buying during sales, so it's hard to pull yourself up without a bit more salary.

I guess it depends on where you live - but if 30K CW was saving 500/month, she'd still have 24K / year (less taxes) to live on.  Might be a little tight, but there are ways to get by on 2K / month spending.

But taxes are non-negligible. At a little more than 30k gross, after ~$500 /month retirement savings, taxes, and super cheap health insurance ($15/week) my take home is only about 1.5 k /month.  Certainly still do-able, but it makes $2k sound easy. So, I can understand the sentiment about being able to save money because you can afford it. A lot of people here can save more in a month than I earn.

[dragoncar]

I don't talk finances too much with my friends since I make a lot more than most of them, but when the conversation turned to saving money (which brings out some MMM philosophies and techniques) I was once accused of being so good at saving money because I could afford it.  I still haven't figured out that logic.

I made a comment at work about how people should be saving $500/month at a minimum, and later realized that one of the people present was making about 30k/year.  For her, being able to save that amount of money really was a question of affording - there is a base cost of living, especially when you are just starting out.  Also, if you're just at that level, you have a limited ability to buy quality items that will last (e.g. shoes, jackets) or take advantage of bulk buying during sales, so it's hard to pull yourself up without a bit more salary.

I guess it depends on where you live - but if 30K CW was saving 500/month, she'd still have 24K / year (less taxes) to live on.  Might be a little tight, but there are ways to get by on 2K / month spending.

But taxes are non-negligible. At a little more than 30k gross, after ~$500 /month retirement savings, taxes, and super cheap health insurance ($15/week) my take home is only about 1.5 k /month.  Certainly still do-able, but it makes $2k sound easy. So, I can understand the sentiment about being able to save money because you can afford it. A lot of people here can save more in a month than I earn.

Hmm, in CA tax-rates.org tells me you'd have 2143/mo left over.    You're putting that $500 in a tax deductible account, right?

[Melody]

I think I'm selling the MMM lifestyle to my co-workers!!!
They say stuff to me like "I don't think I could live your lifestyle but it really seems to work for you. You don't spend much, but you're not stingy and you seem happy" - although I do question why they couldn't live my lifestyle!
It seems to come down to having cheap hobbies (while I consider roller derby an expensive hobby - at least $16 a week in club fees plus petrol and equipment which seems needs to constant replacing, it's not bad the the broader scheme of things and gets me out the house 2-3 times a week, and playing music costs nothing but petrol money and pays me in beer giving me very cheap nights on the town!) and enjoying small spaces... things which make my frugality look more socially acceptable.

[neophyte]

I don't talk finances too much with my friends since I make a lot more than most of them, but when the conversation turned to saving money (which brings out some MMM philosophies and techniques) I was once accused of being so good at saving money because I could afford it.  I still haven't figured out that logic.

I made a comment at work about how people should be saving $500/month at a minimum, and later realized that one of the people present was making about 30k/year.  For her, being able to save that amount of money really was a question of affording - there is a base cost of living, especially when you are just starting out.  Also, if you're just at that level, you have a limited ability to buy quality items that will last (e.g. shoes, jackets) or take advantage of bulk buying during sales, so it's hard to pull yourself up without a bit more salary.

I guess it depends on where you live - but if 30K CW was saving 500/month, she'd still have 24K / year (less taxes) to live on.  Might be a little tight, but there are ways to get by on 2K / month spending.

But taxes are non-negligible. At a little more than 30k gross, after ~$500 /month retirement savings, taxes, and super cheap health insurance ($15/week) my take home is only about 1.5 k /month.  Certainly still do-able, but it makes $2k sound easy. So, I can understand the sentiment about being able to save money because you can afford it. A lot of people here can save more in a month than I earn.

Hmm, in CA tax-rates.org tells me you'd have 2143/mo left over.    You're putting that $500 in a tax deductible account, right?

Yes, 403(b). I take home $365 /week. So actually $1581/month  1.5k was an exaggeration.  Playing with tax-rate.org tells me my state taxes are higher than they would be in CA, and it doesn't include local income tax which is actually higher than state tax where I live. 

[Metta]

Co-worker: When I retire I'm going to pursue my dream of becoming an artist!

Me: Oh? That sounds great! Are you considering retirement then?

Co-worker: No. I don't know if I'll ever be able to retire. Now I have to put two children through college and they picked expensive schools.

Me: Were they able to get any financial aid?

Co-worker (makes a face): We make too much. They only got a very little. It won't go far.
<He and his wife are fairly high-paid professionals who make a lot of money. Probably about twice as much as me and my husband do and they have virtually no retirement savings despite being older than we are.>

Me: You should consider spending less on them and putting something away for yourself so that you will be able to retire at some point. Your children have time on your side. You do not.

Co-worker: It's pointless. Obama has a secret plan to completely destroy the US dollar and steal from everyone's 401K. I'm not going to put money away for retirement just so that man can steal it all! You wait and see.

[medinaj2160]

I got two new stories one about a cat lady that I posted before.

The cat lady used to complain all the time about not having money but at the same she was telling  us how she bought outfits for her cats and also having on order both the ps4 and the Xbox on order when they were about to get released. She worked fulltime as an engineer and had a part time job at GameStop to buy games at a discount; I believe she is her 40s.  Some time after there were some company rumors about people getting laid off since we got a new CEO. She said that if she could not afford to loose her job but some days later for some reason she decided that it would be a good idea to go and buy a new Nissan juke :/.   Guess who got laid off? I kind of felt bad when my manager was walking her out, she said that him "Gosh I really liked to work here, are we getting bought..etc etc." She actually deserved to get let go, she is use to get to work around 9 and then go home at 4. Take and early lunch at her desk but then go out to lunch when everyone else when to lunch. The other day she send an email asking if we had any leads about new jobs because she has not been able to secure a job, that was about two months since she got let go.

The second story is kind if similar. My coorworker usually gets late, takes an hour and half lunch but later comes back with his uneaten lunch and eats it at his desk etc etc. During the same company rumors his wife decided to buy a new Honda accord. Recently he bought a 200k house which I believe he cannot afford. He told me that he borrowed the maximum from his 401k and then cash out the rest for his down payment. The sad part is that he is 35 and he started contributing to his 401k for the first time ever because I told him that he should think about his retirement; he set his 401k at 6% and that was maybe 8 months ago. Since he was living on a rental property he had to break the contract and loose his deposit plus paying a penalty. That's his own fault because he is been looking for a house for a while back and sign the rental contract knowing that he wasnt going to be at that place for long. Now with the new house he decided to buy new bed room furniture, a new living room set and new tail gate for his jeep. He did all of this in a period of 2-3 months. He and his wife got student loans and he also has a car loan. If one them looses their jobs I would imagine they will be done; the funny part is that his wife works for a bank and does loan risks assesment LOL.

[austin]

Co-worker: When I retire I'm going to pursue my dream of becoming an artist!

Me: Oh? That sounds great! Are you considering retirement then?

Co-worker: No. I don't know if I'll ever be able to retire. Now I have to put two children through college and they picked expensive schools.

Me: Were they able to get any financial aid?

Co-worker (makes a face): We make too much. They only got a very little. It won't go far.
<He and his wife are fairly high-paid professionals who make a lot of money. Probably about twice as much as me and my husband do and they have virtually no retirement savings despite being older than we are.>

Me: You should consider spending less on them and putting something away for yourself so that you will be able to retire at some point. Your children have time on your side. You do not.

Co-worker: It's pointless. Obama has a secret plan to completely destroy the US dollar and steal from everyone's 401K. I'm not going to put money away for retirement just so that man can steal it all! You wait and see.

Honestly, I like it when people like this shoot themselves in the foot. : /

[dragoncar]

Co-worker: When I retire I'm going to pursue my dream of becoming an artist!

Me: Oh? That sounds great! Are you considering retirement then?

Co-worker: No. I don't know if I'll ever be able to retire. Now I have to put two children through college and they picked expensive schools.

Me: Were they able to get any financial aid?

Co-worker (makes a face): We make too much. They only got a very little. It won't go far.
<He and his wife are fairly high-paid professionals who make a lot of money. Probably about twice as much as me and my husband do and they have virtually no retirement savings despite being older than we are.>

Me: You should consider spending less on them and putting something away for yourself so that you will be able to retire at some point. Your children have time on your side. You do not.

Co-worker: It's pointless. Obama has a secret plan to completely destroy the US dollar and steal from everyone's 401K. I'm not going to put money away for retirement just so that man can steal it all! You wait and see.

Honestly, I like it when people like this shoot themselves in the foot. : /

Of course, they can't literally do that anymore, thanks to Obama's secret plan to abolish gun ownership.

[marty998]

I got two new stories one about a cat lady that I posted before.

The cat lady used to complain all the time about not having money but at the same she was telling  us how she bought outfits for her cats and also having on order both the ps4 and the Xbox on order when they were about to get released. She worked fulltime as an engineer and had a part time job at GameStop to buy games at a discount; I believe she is her 40s.  Some time after there were some company rumors about people getting laid off since we got a new CEO. She said that if she could not afford to loose her job but some days later for some reason she decided that it would be a good idea to go and buy a new Nissan juke :/.   Guess who got laid off? I kind of felt bad when my manager was walking her out, she said that him "Gosh I really liked to work here, are we getting bought..etc etc." She actually deserved to get let go, she is use to get to work around 9 and then go home at 4. Take and early lunch at her desk but then go out to lunch when everyone else when to lunch. The other day she send an email asking if we had any leads about new jobs because she has not been able to secure a job, that was about two months since she got let go.

The second story is kind if similar. My coorworker usually gets late, takes an hour and half lunch but later comes back with his uneaten lunch and eats it at his desk etc etc. During the same company rumors his wife decided to buy a new Honda accord. Recently he bought a 200k house which I believe he cannot afford. He told me that he borrowed the maximum from his 401k and then cash out the rest for his down payment. The sad part is that he is 35 and he started contributing to his 401k for the first time ever because I told him that he should think about his retirement; he set his 401k at 6% and that was maybe 8 months ago. Since he was living on a rental property he had to break the contract and loose his deposit plus paying a penalty. That's his own fault because he is been looking for a house for a while back and sign the rental contract knowing that he wasnt going to be at that place for long. Now with the new house he decided to buy new bed room furniture, a new living room set and new tail gate for his jeep. He did all of this in a period of 2-3 months. He and his wife got student loans and he also has a car loan. If one them looses their jobs I would imagine they will be done; the funny part is that his wife works for a bank and does loan risks assesment LOL.

Yep, all of that is Obama's fault.

[Melody]

Ha ha well said Marty!

[fb132]

When in doubt, blame Obama. As a canadian, I don't understand all this fear on Obama some americans have and hearing some people talk Obama like if he were Hitler makes me not even want to know why.

[Metta]

Of course, they can't literally do that anymore, thanks to Obama's secret plan to abolish gun ownership.

LOL!!

At first I felt very bad for him since by believing partisan spin he was harming his own finances. But then I realized that either his precognitive abilities were far better than mine and he had predicted this Obama dollar destruction thing way back in the Reagan administration (and I'm just a silly sheeple) or this was nonsense since no one arrives in their late 50s having no money in their retirement accounts merely because of one presidential administration.

[MandalayVA]

When in doubt, blame Obama. As a canadian, I don't understand all this fear on Obama some americans have and hearing some people talk Obama like if he were Hitler makes me not even want to know why.

Sadly, it's as simple as this--Fear of a Brown President^TM. 

[rocksinmyhead]

I've always told people that I think of Canada as a cleaner and less fat version of America.

Good way to make friends in a new place ;-)

I mean, I'm an American and I've never been to Canada, but this is actually how I imagine it, LOL. it's not that hard to be cleaner and less fat than America, depending which part you're talking about (Oklahoma is VERY easy to beat in this regard... my hometown of the Twin Cities is much nicer, but then again it's almost Canada ;))

[VirginiaBob]

When in doubt, blame Obama. As a canadian, I don't understand all this fear on Obama some americans have and hearing some people talk Obama like if he were Hitler makes me not even want to know why.

This is pretty much the case no matter who is President - doesn't matter which party.  Bush comparisons to Hitler were actually even more prevalent.

[rocksinmyhead]

When in doubt, blame Obama. As a canadian, I don't understand all this fear on Obama some americans have and hearing some people talk Obama like if he were Hitler makes me not even want to know why.

This is pretty much the case no matter who is President - doesn't matter which party.  Bush comparisons to Hitler were actually even more prevalent.

I feel like I heard more people talk about Bush just being an idiot (with Cheney being the actual evil) vs. more people talking about Obama being straight-up evil. but I agree, everyone gets ripped on.

[infogoon]

I feel like I heard more people talk about Bush just being an idiot (with Cheney being the actual evil) vs. more people talking about Obama being straight-up evil. but I agree, everyone gets ripped on.

I'm not sure why there would be a conspiracy theory about President Obama confiscating money from people's investment accounts. Have we ever had an administration so willing to bend over backwards for Wall Street? Raiding 401(k)s would utterly destroy investor confidence and run counter to everything he's done for the last five and a half years.

[VirginiaBob]

When in doubt, blame Obama. As a canadian, I don't understand all this fear on Obama some americans have and hearing some people talk Obama like if he were Hitler makes me not even want to know why.

This is pretty much the case no matter who is President - doesn't matter which party.  Bush comparisons to Hitler were actually even more prevalent.

I feel like I heard more people talk about Bush just being an idiot (with Cheney being the actual evil) vs. more people talking about Obama being straight-up evil. but I agree, everyone gets ripped on.

There was a actually a teacher who created an assignment for her 6th graders to write a paper on the comparisons between Bush and Hitler.  Public education at its finest.

[AlanStache]

When in doubt, blame Obama. As a canadian, I don't understand all this fear on Obama some americans have and hearing some people talk Obama like if he were Hitler makes me not even want to know why.

This is pretty much the case no matter who is President - doesn't matter which party.  Bush comparisons to Hitler were actually even more prevalent.

I feel like I heard more people talk about Bush just being an idiot (with Cheney being the actual evil) vs. more people talking about Obama being straight-up evil. but I agree, everyone gets ripped on.

There was a actually a teacher who created an assignment for her 6th graders to write a paper on the comparisons between Bush and Hitler.  Public education at its finest.

Godwin's_law

In the spirit of the latest off-topic tangent, how about "foam"?

"This thread's getting foamy."

"I like the foam, but getting back to the original topic . . ."

Foamy.