Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 6233091 times)

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12500 on: February 16, 2016, 10:27:04 AM »

My cookies are never browned in the center.  I just stick 'em in for however many minutes the directions say.  No testing, no looking.  Just in and out.  If they come out too crunchy, I write on the recipe to change the time.  15 minutes 14 minutes.

After starting to learn cooking, I've realized that there are two ways recipes can be written: (1) For those who have already cooked similar dishes, and (2) for those who have not cooked similar dishes.  The biggest one I've seen is cheesecake.  Type 1 recipes are just ingredients and order of combination.  Type 1 recipes don't tell you to stick the cheesecake pan in a pan of water in the oven (bain marie), to turn off the oven at the end of baking and then not open the door until the next day.  Type 2 recipes are much more likely to tell you these things.  Bread recipes also have a firm breakdown between Types 1 and 2.

I like the website Allrecipes.com.  The recipes themselves aren't necessarily easier to follow, but a lot of comments on the recipes will give you the detailed instructions you need to change a Type 1 recipe into a Type 2 recipe.  I will never be an instinctive cook, so these comments really help.

+1 to nearly everything. I like Allrecipes for this reason, their recipes aren't necessarily the best, but the comments really help.

I also agree about following the recipe exactly, and then just marking down what's different. Eventually you may be able to tell by looking at it, but I'm nowhere at that level. I need to buy a meat thermometer for my grill because I'm terrible at judging when meat is cooked.

Another thing that helped me enjoy cooking is to find a recipe that you enjoy making and keep making it whenever you're hungry. Then find another recipe that you want to make and make it and keep going until you have a couple of recipes that you can whip up without much difficulty. For me my go-to recipe is a tilipia red curry that I can make in about 20 minutes, or a few minutes longer if I am using frozen fillets. This is roughly the time it takes to cook rice, and I've gotten efficient enough that I'll get the rice cooking, then get the base ready and put the fish in it to cook and take a shower and so by the time I'm out of the shower and dressed the fish will be fully cooked and ready to eat.

Elliot

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12501 on: February 16, 2016, 10:39:11 AM »
ANYONE can follow a simple recipe.


I don't expect everyone to be able to make biscuits or soup beans or rice without measuring or timing anything like I do (humblebrag!). My partner can't boil rice without looking at a recipe even with watching me for years. But he can and does follow the instructions on the canister. He can and does know how to operate a can opener to open a can of pinto beans.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12502 on: February 16, 2016, 11:10:06 AM »
Allrecipes is hands down (IMO) the best cooking site out there.  For the reasons above.  People leave comments.  So you can find a recipe with 4.5 stars and then read what people tweaked. 

also we need to distiguish 2 things here

1. cooking - pretty much open ended and if you follow the all recipes path and start cooking recipes you think you'll like while reading comments you will learn to improvise and learn to COOK

2. baking  - SET ingredients and measurements and cook times and rest times etc. to cook it correctly

for those that cant BAKE cookies correctly i dont understand this.  I HATE to bake b/c i dont like directions i like to improvise and following a strict script is boring to me.  But baking is a simple x+Y+Z=a ....

there isnt a feeling that cookies are done.  there is a time at which they are done and if you like them cripier cook them longer if you like them softer dont cook them as long.  there are also ingredients that lead to gooier vs cripier cookies.  but its simple directions.  follow them.  i cant imagine what other things in your life you have problems with if baking is one of them. 

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RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12503 on: February 16, 2016, 11:19:54 AM »
1. cooking - pretty much open ended and if you follow the all recipes path and start cooking recipes you think you'll like while reading comments you will learn to improvise and learn to COOK

2. baking  - SET ingredients and measurements and cook times and rest times etc. to cook it correctly

I disagree, I've never understood why baking is considered different from cooking.  I use recipes as a general guideline, but I ultimately go by feel for both.  For instance, after doing bread or cookies a few times I know what the proper water content should be before putting them in the oven.  It's not always the specified amount.  I've also never been able to use baking times exactly.  Gotta go by look or toothpick.  If baking was an exact science then recipes would never change.  There'd only be one chocolate chip cookie recipe out there :-(  Baking as with cooking: experiment, wing it!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12504 on: February 16, 2016, 11:24:18 AM »
Because baking is chemistry

maco

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12505 on: February 16, 2016, 11:33:11 AM »
Allrecipes is hands down (IMO) the best cooking site out there.  For the reasons above.  People leave comments.  So you can find a recipe with 4.5 stars and then read what people tweaked. 

also we need to distiguish 2 things here

1. cooking - pretty much open ended and if you follow the all recipes path and start cooking recipes you think you'll like while reading comments you will learn to improvise and learn to COOK

2. baking  - SET ingredients and measurements and cook times and rest times etc. to cook it correctly

for those that cant BAKE cookies correctly i dont understand this.  I HATE to bake b/c i dont like directions i like to improvise and following a strict script is boring to me.  But baking is a simple x+Y+Z=a ....

Totally the opposite, IMO. Baking changes drastically depending on the humidity level. How packed or loose your flour is changes how much liquid you need. Learning to make bread is a matter of either trial and error or of an experienced baker going "here, stick your hand in there. Feel that? That's too dry. Add more water. Now squish it around. Lemme feel. Ok what do you think? That's right, it was a little too much water, so just sprinkle a little flour in. There you go, that's how you want it to feel. Remember that feel."

How long does it need to rise? Depends...in your house does "room temperature" mean 68, 72, 75, 80?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 11:34:47 AM by maco »

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12506 on: February 16, 2016, 11:34:17 AM »
Allrecipes is hands down (IMO) the best cooking site out there.  For the reasons above.  People leave comments.  So you can find a recipe with 4.5 stars and then read what people tweaked. 

also we need to distiguish 2 things here

1. cooking - pretty much open ended and if you follow the all recipes path and start cooking recipes you think you'll like while reading comments you will learn to improvise and learn to COOK

2. baking  - SET ingredients and measurements and cook times and rest times etc. to cook it correctly

for those that cant BAKE cookies correctly i dont understand this.  I HATE to bake b/c i dont like directions i like to improvise and following a strict script is boring to me.  But baking is a simple x+Y+Z=a ....

Totally the opposite, IMO. Baking changes drastically depending on the humidity level. How packed or loose your flour is changes how much liquid you need. Learning to make bread is a matter of either trial and error or of an experienced baker going "here, stick your hand in there. Feel that? That's too dry. Add more water. Now squish it around. Lemme feel. Ok what do you think? That's right, it was a little too much water, so just sprinkle a little flour in. There you go, that's how you want it to feel. Remember that feel."

This is why I'm glad that volume measurements are becoming more popular in American recipes. A scale makes results a lot more predictable.

maco

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12507 on: February 16, 2016, 11:35:52 AM »
Allrecipes is hands down (IMO) the best cooking site out there.  For the reasons above.  People leave comments.  So you can find a recipe with 4.5 stars and then read what people tweaked. 

also we need to distiguish 2 things here

1. cooking - pretty much open ended and if you follow the all recipes path and start cooking recipes you think you'll like while reading comments you will learn to improvise and learn to COOK

2. baking  - SET ingredients and measurements and cook times and rest times etc. to cook it correctly

for those that cant BAKE cookies correctly i dont understand this.  I HATE to bake b/c i dont like directions i like to improvise and following a strict script is boring to me.  But baking is a simple x+Y+Z=a ....

Totally the opposite, IMO. Baking changes drastically depending on the humidity level. How packed or loose your flour is changes how much liquid you need. Learning to make bread is a matter of either trial and error or of an experienced baker going "here, stick your hand in there. Feel that? That's too dry. Add more water. Now squish it around. Lemme feel. Ok what do you think? That's right, it was a little too much water, so just sprinkle a little flour in. There you go, that's how you want it to feel. Remember that feel."

This is why I'm glad that volume measurements are becoming more popular in American recipes. A scale makes results a lot more predictable.
I think you mean mass is becoming more popular or volume is becoming less popular. Even if you use exactly 100g flour and 100g water, if you're in Arizona you'll get different results than in Virginia.

serpentstooth

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12508 on: February 16, 2016, 11:38:57 AM »
Allrecipes is hands down (IMO) the best cooking site out there.  For the reasons above.  People leave comments.  So you can find a recipe with 4.5 stars and then read what people tweaked. 

also we need to distiguish 2 things here

1. cooking - pretty much open ended and if you follow the all recipes path and start cooking recipes you think you'll like while reading comments you will learn to improvise and learn to COOK

2. baking  - SET ingredients and measurements and cook times and rest times etc. to cook it correctly

for those that cant BAKE cookies correctly i dont understand this.  I HATE to bake b/c i dont like directions i like to improvise and following a strict script is boring to me.  But baking is a simple x+Y+Z=a ....

Totally the opposite, IMO. Baking changes drastically depending on the humidity level. How packed or loose your flour is changes how much liquid you need. Learning to make bread is a matter of either trial and error or of an experienced baker going "here, stick your hand in there. Feel that? That's too dry. Add more water. Now squish it around. Lemme feel. Ok what do you think? That's right, it was a little too much water, so just sprinkle a little flour in. There you go, that's how you want it to feel. Remember that feel."

This is why I'm glad that volume measurements are becoming more popular in American recipes. A scale makes results a lot more predictable.
I think you mean mass is becoming more popular or volume is becoming less popular. Even if you use exactly 100g flour and 100g water, if you're in Arizona you'll get different results than in Virginia.

Yes, that's what I mean. FWIW, I've baked over a thousand loaves of bread in addition to cookies, cakes, etc. and I've never found humidity to be a huge factor in results. Bread made with the same recipe in midwinter yields basically the same loaf as the one made on the muggiest day of summer. The only exception is meringue based desserts, which are a dry weather only thing.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12509 on: February 16, 2016, 11:49:21 AM »
I have a strange behavior I've observed at the office. I've seen it for the past couple of years now.

Ever notice how some folks are either forgetful or purposely careless with loose change? Well, someone at my office has been leaving piles of loose change around in public spaces throughout the office. Pennies on top of door frames, assorted silver and copper on drafting tables, flat files...Even stranger, it isn't all U.S. currency, I found what appears to be a Chinese Yen and a few assorted small U.S. coins just this morning. Some of these haven't moved in months.

Not sure whether they're trying to ward off evil spirits, or some other such purpose? Is it some type of social experiment? Does anyone do this where you work? We're not talking about large sums of money here, obviously, but I really just don't get it...
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shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12510 on: February 16, 2016, 12:02:23 PM »
Could it be Feng Shui? Someone trying to make the business more profitable? That was my thought even before the Chinese coin. Try doing something that looks really innocuous but is "bad Feng Shui" - mostly to do with bins, loo seats and blocking doorways IIRC - and see if it is "corrected".

LeRainDrop

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12511 on: February 16, 2016, 12:15:51 PM »
Not sure whether they're trying to ward off evil spirits, or some other such purpose? Is it some type of social experiment? Does anyone do this where you work? We're not talking about large sums of money here, obviously, but I really just don't get it...

That is so mysterious!  I have not found coins placed throughout my office, but I did happen upon a dollar bill hanging out of one of our vending machines in the kitchen when I was working one weekend.  It wasn't stuck there or anything, but more like the machine rejected it and then the person didn't take it with them.  I had to look around for a couple minutes because I was confused.  I even took a photo, then reported it to our office managers, but no one ever claimed it, so I got to keep it :-)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12512 on: February 16, 2016, 12:22:02 PM »
I have a strange behavior I've observed at the office. I've seen it for the past couple of years now.

Ever notice how some folks are either forgetful or purposely careless with loose change? Well, someone at my office has been leaving piles of loose change around in public spaces throughout the office. Pennies on top of door frames, assorted silver and copper on drafting tables, flat files...Even stranger, it isn't all U.S. currency, I found what appears to be a Chinese Yen and a few assorted small U.S. coins just this morning. Some of these haven't moved in months.

Not sure whether they're trying to ward off evil spirits, or some other such purpose? Is it some type of social experiment? Does anyone do this where you work? We're not talking about large sums of money here, obviously, but I really just don't get it...

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Chris22

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12513 on: February 16, 2016, 12:25:14 PM »
Not sure whether they're trying to ward off evil spirits, or some other such purpose? Is it some type of social experiment? Does anyone do this where you work? We're not talking about large sums of money here, obviously, but I really just don't get it...

That is so mysterious!  I have not found coins placed throughout my office, but I did happen upon a dollar bill hanging out of one of our vending machines in the kitchen when I was working one weekend.  It wasn't stuck there or anything, but more like the machine rejected it and then the person didn't take it with them.  I had to look around for a couple minutes because I was confused.  I even took a photo, then reported it to our office managers, but no one ever claimed it, so I got to keep it :-)

Do you work in my office?  I stuck a dollar in a Pepsi machine Friday afternoon, and then it wouldn't take my change and I didn't have another single.  And it wouldn't cough it back up.  I got tired of messing with it and left it behind.   Oh well.
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dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12514 on: February 16, 2016, 12:30:17 PM »
I don't understand people who don't know how to cook. Can you read? Have you ever watched a cooking show? Do you have the internet?

It really isn't hard. To cook good it isn't hard either. Butter, garlic, salt, sugar, onion, cheese. If it doesn't taste good yet, you probably didn't add enough of one of the above. There is your first lesson. We'll get into the second lesson (which involves healthier ways to cook since 3 out of my 5 options are not at all healthy) later.

I'll answer this one.  I can't cook.  Actually, I can, but barely.  It involved buying a meat thermometer and a chart telling you at what temperature meat is done at.  I can't tell by looking at it unless I wait until it's well overcooked.  Same thing happens with cookies...I always wait until I see a little brown at the edges and very top of the center, and by then it's too late.  But I can't judge it sooner than that.  Also, I always have to look up what temperature to cook different kinds of meat at.  Having never closely watched anyone boil, fry, brown, or anything to vegetables, it takes a decent amount of googling to learn how to even cook up just a medley of veggies on the stove.  Which ones need to cook longer?  Which just a little bit?  How can I tell when they're done?  When the directions say "until brown/translucent/thick/thin/a sizzle/moderate boil/beginning to blank" I struggle.  I google what it's supposed to look like, which of course leads to picture-perfect and usually not that helpful pictures.  I read instructions in cookbooks, and at least 80% of the time there's at least one line of instructions that I wish had better clarification.  Slow cooker recipes help because I just have to throw in ingredients and let the magic happen, and it's very difficult to overcook the food.  A new dish I learned this year was Chicken Noodle Soup.  I didn't know chicken boiled through so quickly before this.  I always assumed it took hours.  Now I know it takes 30 minutes.  But the directions have to be "throw in the noodles. 3 minutes later add the chicken and cook for 5 minutes" not "noodles, and when appropriate/time left/at the end/a bit later add the chicken".  That throws me for a tail spin.

Also, I have to learn how to chop every interesting kind of vegetable and fruit.  Bell peppers took me years to memorize the best way to cut them, and I use them weekly.

I don't have a natural knack for it, I never want to watch a cooking show*, and I'll never enjoy it.  I equate cooking to doing laundry or dusting.  Not that terribly hard, but certainly a chore.  Not something I consider spending an afternoon on, unless it's a serious spring cleaning day or something.  I can make basic meals and I have exactly 3 "harder" recipes I know, plus 2 desserts I can make from scratch.  So I can cook, but it's at the most basic level.  Meat and vegetable, or pasta, or a sandwich.

*Fortunately, my DH loves cooking shows.  It's just unfortunate he's not around to cook all that much.  But I have learned some helpful things from them.  The issue is that it takes 30-60 minutes of TV for me to learn the 2 minute lesson that I'll hang on to.

It sounds like you need to taste your door more as you cook.  Not sure if the veggies are done?  Eat one.  If you like it, it's done.  Otherwise cook some more. 

Same with cookies, although I agree with poster above who says you just cook it for the exact Amount of time/temp specified in the recipe.  If it doesn't come out good (and even overlooked cookies are delicious in my book... Crush them up over ice cream or something) then your thermostat or clock is wrong or you just need to try another recipe until you find one you like.

I personally have trouble with roasts... It's always way underdone when cooked for the amount of time specified.  I'm not afraid to cut into it at various times to find out (or check the temp if I have access to a thermometer).  It may not look as pretty in the end, and be slightly less juicy, but over time I've started to learn from that process and become a better judge of meat.

My wife tells me that I'm a really good cook, but I feel like I'm just following recipes.  Like if I put together ikea furniture and someone says I'm a great furniture maker.  I don't have the skill yet to really improvise well but hopefully I'll get there someday.  I tell my wife I'm just really good at finding good recipes online!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12515 on: February 16, 2016, 12:35:59 PM »
A meat thermometer is essentially to cooking good meat.  So is understanding that it will continue to cook after you remove it from the heat (ie, if you want it to be 140*, take it off at 135* and it will climb to 140 on its own).  This is more important in steak than chicken, where chicken doesn't matter much if you want it to hit 165* and it hits 170* by mistake.
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mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12516 on: February 16, 2016, 12:39:38 PM »
I don't know of any great cook who didn't start out by following a recipe. Even if it wasn't written down, there is a recipe somewhere.

Take my aunt's pancakes for instance. The recipe was handwritten by her grandmother. Her mother followed it, and memorized it, and modified it on her own. Then she gave it to my aunt, along with the verbal modifications. My aunt followed it directly, then with the modifications from her mother, then with her own.

My alfredo sauce, I started with an online recipe. Haven't followed it in a long time, since I have it memorized by now, but you just have to "wing it" as you go.

Heck, even my taco's have a recipe: Cook (brown) chorizo in a frying pan, generally using medium heat for about 10 minutes. Cut up cilantro and onion. Take 2 corn tortillas per taco, and melt chihuahua cheese between them. Make taco with chorizo, cilantro, and onion, adding personal preference amounts of each. Add Avocado if desired.

That is a recipe. Not much to it, but a recipe nonetheless.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12517 on: February 16, 2016, 01:35:43 PM »
It sounds like you need to taste your door more as you cook.

:)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 01:43:22 PM by teadirt »
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12518 on: February 16, 2016, 02:11:41 PM »
A meat thermometer is essentially to cooking good meat.
True. Mostly important to make sure the center is hot and cooked.

Quote
So is understanding that it will continue to cook after you remove it from the heat
Yes while ever it is hotter than the animals body temperature it will continue to cook.
It also needs time to relax and cool. When it is hot muscle fibres shrink and force out the water, you need to let them cool and relax re-absorbing the water before serving. Obviously More important for large joints of meat than a broiled steak.

Quote
, take it off at 135* and it will climb to 140 on its own
Not in this universe it won't. You can't fight thermodynamics !
Well the middle will continue to get hotter if it didn't reach the full temperature but other parts of the meat are hotter.
But it can't get hotter on it's own.

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12519 on: February 16, 2016, 02:16:02 PM »
I found what appears to be a Chinese Yen

I'm not familiar with a Chinese yen. Do you mean Chinese yuan or Japanese yen?

Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12520 on: February 16, 2016, 02:27:45 PM »
I found what appears to be a Chinese Yen

I'm not familiar with a Chinese yen. Do you mean Chinese yuan or Japanese yen?

In all fairness, it's the same character with differing pronunciation.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12521 on: February 16, 2016, 02:30:31 PM »

Quote
, take it off at 135* and it will climb to 140 on its own
Not in this universe it won't. You can't fight thermodynamics !
Well the middle will continue to get hotter if it didn't reach the full temperature but other parts of the meat are hotter.
But it can't get hotter on it's own.

If the meat is large enough, the outer inch or two will hit about 180 degrees, and even after being removed, the core of the meat will rise somewhat in temp because of the heat spreading into the interior.  That is not fighting thermodynamics, it's using entropy to your advantage.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12522 on: February 16, 2016, 02:37:40 PM »
Came back against my better judgement and saw over a page of responses about (foamy) cooking.

Anyone have some new Overheard at Works?
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12523 on: February 16, 2016, 03:02:10 PM »
I have one.... and it's actually giving me some restless nights. A few months back, I hired a girl fresh out of university on a one year contract. After a month trial period, things were going great and a more difficult position opened up. I told her she could have a shot at it since she was doing fine and she seemed really eager. The pay was also higher (couple hundred a month). We did discuss that it was a leap of faith and if it wasn't going well, she could return to her original position and pay, no harm no foul.

The past few weeks, this girl has been struggling, even after some intense coaching. She was frequently near tears. Had a talk with her and we reached the conclusion that the higher position was too much, too soon. But when I informed her it would be better if she went back to her old position with her old pay, she informed me that that wasn't possible... as she'd just bought a house and gotten a top-end mortgage, based on the higher paid job. All contracts signed and sealed.

So my options are:
A) let her keep her higher pay but make her do the tougher job - probably resulting in a burn out on her part
B) force the agreement: back to the old job with old pay - making her lose the house and a fair deal of money
C) let her keep the higher pay, but go back to the old job - resulting in a thoroughly overpaid colleague.

Need I remind you, she has a 1 year contract as well... How on EARTH can someone make this financial decision? And how in the hell did she manage to get that mortgage... I don't even want to look into that. Anyway, I'll probably go for option C... but I feel well shafted, to be honest!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12524 on: February 16, 2016, 03:11:54 PM »
I have one.... and it's actually giving me some restless nights. A few months back, I hired a girl fresh out of university on a one year contract. After a month trial period, things were going great and a more difficult position opened up. I told her she could have a shot at it since she was doing fine and she seemed really eager. The pay was also higher (couple hundred a month). We did discuss that it was a leap of faith and if it wasn't going well, she could return to her original position and pay, no harm no foul.

The past few weeks, this girl has been struggling, even after some intense coaching. She was frequently near tears. Had a talk with her and we reached the conclusion that the higher position was too much, too soon. But when I informed her it would be better if she went back to her old position with her old pay, she informed me that that wasn't possible... as she'd just bought a house and gotten a top-end mortgage, based on the higher paid job. All contracts signed and sealed.

So my options are:
A) let her keep her higher pay but make her do the tougher job - probably resulting in a burn out on her part
B) force the agreement: back to the old job with old pay - making her lose the house and a fair deal of money
C) let her keep the higher pay, but go back to the old job - resulting in a thoroughly overpaid colleague.

Need I remind you, she has a 1 year contract as well... How on EARTH can someone make this financial decision? And how in the hell did she manage to get that mortgage... I don't even want to look into that. Anyway, I'll probably go for option C... but I feel well shafted, to be honest!

I would give her another month with option A, and then go to option B

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12525 on: February 16, 2016, 03:41:30 PM »
Anyway, I'll probably go for option C... but I feel well shafted, to be honest!

While I commend you for caring, it's not your responsibility.  Alternatively, this could be a very early and very good lesson for her to learn.

LPeters

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12526 on: February 16, 2016, 04:33:43 PM »
I have one.... and it's actually giving me some restless nights. A few months back, I hired a girl fresh out of university on a one year contract. After a month trial period, things were going great and a more difficult position opened up. I told her she could have a shot at it since she was doing fine and she seemed really eager. The pay was also higher (couple hundred a month). We did discuss that it was a leap of faith and if it wasn't going well, she could return to her original position and pay, no harm no foul.

The past few weeks, this girl has been struggling, even after some intense coaching. She was frequently near tears. Had a talk with her and we reached the conclusion that the higher position was too much, too soon. But when I informed her it would be better if she went back to her old position with her old pay, she informed me that that wasn't possible... as she'd just bought a house and gotten a top-end mortgage, based on the higher paid job. All contracts signed and sealed.

So my options are:
A) let her keep her higher pay but make her do the tougher job - probably resulting in a burn out on her part
B) force the agreement: back to the old job with old pay - making her lose the house and a fair deal of money
C) let her keep the higher pay, but go back to the old job - resulting in a thoroughly overpaid colleague.

Need I remind you, she has a 1 year contract as well... How on EARTH can someone make this financial decision? And how in the hell did she manage to get that mortgage... I don't even want to look into that. Anyway, I'll probably go for option C... but I feel well shafted, to be honest!
So, #1, why would you even consider giving her either a) a job that she can't do, yet or b) a salary that she hasn't earned SPECIFICALLY because she made a very, very poor financial decision?

Would you be having this same debate if she was having trouble with her boat payments? If she'd bought a used Lamborghini? Is she a really, really good employee? I kind of doubt it because it sounds like she lacks some important judgement skills.

Also, this is a really good question for askamanager, if you feel like submitting it. She gives good advice.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12527 on: February 16, 2016, 07:49:24 PM »
I have one.... and it's actually giving me some restless nights. A few months back, I hired a girl fresh out of university on a one year contract. After a month trial period, things were going great and a more difficult position opened up. I told her she could have a shot at it since she was doing fine and she seemed really eager. The pay was also higher (couple hundred a month). We did discuss that it was a leap of faith and if it wasn't going well, she could return to her original position and pay, no harm no foul.

The past few weeks, this girl has been struggling, even after some intense coaching. She was frequently near tears. Had a talk with her and we reached the conclusion that the higher position was too much, too soon. But when I informed her it would be better if she went back to her old position with her old pay, she informed me that that wasn't possible... as she'd just bought a house and gotten a top-end mortgage, based on the higher paid job. All contracts signed and sealed.

So my options are:
A) let her keep her higher pay but make her do the tougher job - probably resulting in a burn out on her part
B) force the agreement: back to the old job with old pay - making her lose the house and a fair deal of money
C) let her keep the higher pay, but go back to the old job - resulting in a thoroughly overpaid colleague.

Need I remind you, she has a 1 year contract as well... How on EARTH can someone make this financial decision? And how in the hell did she manage to get that mortgage... I don't even want to look into that. Anyway, I'll probably go for option C... but I feel well shafted, to be honest!

I would give her another month with option A, and then go to option B

Agree with nnls.  Also +1 to LPeters' suggestion to submit this to Ask a Manager.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 07:51:34 PM by LeRainDrop »

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12528 on: February 16, 2016, 08:49:28 PM »
I have one.... and it's actually giving me some restless nights. A few months back, I hired a girl fresh out of university on a one year contract. After a month trial period, things were going great and a more difficult position opened up. I told her she could have a shot at it since she was doing fine and she seemed really eager. The pay was also higher (couple hundred a month). We did discuss that it was a leap of faith and if it wasn't going well, she could return to her original position and pay, no harm no foul.

The past few weeks, this girl has been struggling, even after some intense coaching. She was frequently near tears. Had a talk with her and we reached the conclusion that the higher position was too much, too soon. But when I informed her it would be better if she went back to her old position with her old pay, she informed me that that wasn't possible... as she'd just bought a house and gotten a top-end mortgage, based on the higher paid job. All contracts signed and sealed.

So my options are:
A) let her keep her higher pay but make her do the tougher job - probably resulting in a burn out on her part
B) force the agreement: back to the old job with old pay - making her lose the house and a fair deal of money
C) let her keep the higher pay, but go back to the old job - resulting in a thoroughly overpaid colleague.

Need I remind you, she has a 1 year contract as well... How on EARTH can someone make this financial decision? And how in the hell did she manage to get that mortgage... I don't even want to look into that. Anyway, I'll probably go for option C... but I feel well shafted, to be honest!

First off, unless she is 14, then you should have found a better word... what about "graduate" or "employee", or "young woman" (but only if you are already over 45, would that come off ok.)

Second,  your choice should be dictated by the best interest for the company.   That is choice B).  period.

How the heck did she get a mortgage based on her pay of weeks and a 1 year contract?  I thought NINJA loans did not exist anymore.  Maybe with a spouse or co-signor, in which case EVERYONE should have known this person is over their head.  That is not the fault of your company, now is it?  it is only $1000 per year.  she will live.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 08:53:54 PM by goldielocks »

NykkiC

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12529 on: February 16, 2016, 11:24:34 PM »
I have one.... and it's actually giving me some restless nights. A few months back, I hired a girl fresh out of university on a one year contract. After a month trial period, things were going great and a more difficult position opened up. I told her she could have a shot at it since she was doing fine and she seemed really eager. The pay was also higher (couple hundred a month). We did discuss that it was a leap of faith and if it wasn't going well, she could return to her original position and pay, no harm no foul.

The past few weeks, this girl has been struggling, even after some intense coaching. She was frequently near tears. Had a talk with her and we reached the conclusion that the higher position was too much, too soon. But when I informed her it would be better if she went back to her old position with her old pay, she informed me that that wasn't possible... as she'd just bought a house and gotten a top-end mortgage, based on the higher paid job. All contracts signed and sealed.

So my options are:
A) let her keep her higher pay but make her do the tougher job - probably resulting in a burn out on her part
B) force the agreement: back to the old job with old pay - making her lose the house and a fair deal of money
C) let her keep the higher pay, but go back to the old job - resulting in a thoroughly overpaid colleague.

Need I remind you, she has a 1 year contract as well... How on EARTH can someone make this financial decision? And how in the hell did she manage to get that mortgage... I don't even want to look into that. Anyway, I'll probably go for option C... but I feel well shafted, to be honest!

Your kindness does you credit but, quite apart from the fact that its not your responsibility to ensure she keeps a job she's not qualified for, you're not doing her any favours by protecting her from the consequences of her actions.

I'm not a manager, but I would suggest taking her somewhere quiet and being firm about the situation. If I would you, I would set up expectations at the outset, something like "your current performance simply isn't sufficent for the role". Then give her some clear benchmarks and time limits which, if she achieves and maintains, she can keep the job. But then suggest that it would be in her interest to be prepared to go with her plan for paying her mortage when her contract ended. If she says she doesn't have a plan, that's her bad decision not yours.

Adventine

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12530 on: February 17, 2016, 12:00:03 AM »
I have one.... and it's actually giving me some restless nights. A few months back, I hired a girl fresh out of university on a one year contract. After a month trial period, things were going great and a more difficult position opened up. I told her she could have a shot at it since she was doing fine and she seemed really eager. The pay was also higher (couple hundred a month). We did discuss that it was a leap of faith and if it wasn't going well, she could return to her original position and pay, no harm no foul.

The past few weeks, this girl has been struggling, even after some intense coaching. She was frequently near tears. Had a talk with her and we reached the conclusion that the higher position was too much, too soon. But when I informed her it would be better if she went back to her old position with her old pay, she informed me that that wasn't possible... as she'd just bought a house and gotten a top-end mortgage, based on the higher paid job. All contracts signed and sealed.

So my options are:
A) let her keep her higher pay but make her do the tougher job - probably resulting in a burn out on her part
B) force the agreement: back to the old job with old pay - making her lose the house and a fair deal of money
C) let her keep the higher pay, but go back to the old job - resulting in a thoroughly overpaid colleague.

Need I remind you, she has a 1 year contract as well... How on EARTH can someone make this financial decision? And how in the hell did she manage to get that mortgage... I don't even want to look into that. Anyway, I'll probably go for option C... but I feel well shafted, to be honest!

Don't reward poor performance at work. You need to set clear benchmarks and timelines she needs to meet, and make the consequences clear to her if she doesn't meet those expectations.

Have you considered that she may be exaggerating her personal financial troubles to get some breathing space?

horsepoor

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12531 on: February 17, 2016, 07:01:58 AM »
Agree on option B, though allowing her an extra month of trying the higher position doesn't seem unreasonable.

She could get a roommate or two to defray the mortgage cost, but it's her bad decision and her problem.

Apples

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12532 on: February 17, 2016, 07:30:57 AM »
Do you genuinely want to branch out with cooking, or is it more "well, MMM says to cook your own food so I guess I have to, sigh"?  It also sounds like you've gotten hold of some bad cookbooks/cooking websites, as they exist in far greater numbers than good ones.  I also began cooking in childhood, but even in the eighties I found I was a rarity when I got to college and the majority couldn't even warm up something in the microwave, so I don't condemn anyone not having the skills.  If you truly want to learn to cook, or cook better, I recommend Michael Bittman's How to Cook Everything.  It literally starts out from very basic stuff and builds on skills.  If you can't scramble an egg, there's no way you're going to make a successful soufflé. 

As for Oklahoma Oprah the Pioneer Woman ... she'll do in a pinch.  Just don't believe that a multimillionaire rancher's wife (before she began making her own millions) is just like you and me.  ;D

Thanks for the suggestions everyone :)  I'll probably check out the Pioneer Woman sometime.  I want to point out that I was just answering how someone may not really be able to cook, since that seemed unfathomable to an earlier poster.  My DH has cooked for years, and doesn't realize the kind of basic knowledge I'm lacking.  For example, within the last few months I learned that when you put oil in a pan to cook something, you can tell it's warm enough by tilting the pan around and when it runs in a liquid form, that's good.  I just kept throwing in water droplets until they really sizzled, which is more of a pain.  I also just scrambled my first eggs a month ago (but I don't like eggs, so there had never been a reason for me to do so before).  And I cook b/c we live in the middle of nowhere and I like eating food every day.  Done with this foam though!

Overheard at Work:

Guy got a brand new girlfriend he's quickly moving in with him.  With her two sons, and his son.  The main reason is so they can split bills b/c his last gf moved out and he was worried with his income about covering the high utilities.  So then they proceed to get a new TV package for 2 additional TVs, a whole house DVR, upgrade the satellite package, and he takes a morning off work to wait for the guy to install all of this (he's paid hourly).  They use free wood for heat, and don't have a water bill...literally all they pay for his electric, tv, and internet.  I'm fairly certain his bills are not any lower than they would have been before this new girl.

Apples

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12533 on: February 17, 2016, 07:36:30 AM »
A meat thermometer is essentially to cooking good meat.  So is understanding that it will continue to cook after you remove it from the heat (ie, if you want it to be 140*, take it off at 135* and it will climb to 140 on its own).  This is more important in steak than chicken, where chicken doesn't matter much if you want it to hit 165* and it hits 170* by mistake.

As a newbie cook I also just very recently learned from DH that things keep cooking when you take them out of the oven.  See people, these kinds of tips and tricks are what make cooking so hard for unexperienced people.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12534 on: February 17, 2016, 07:59:41 AM »
I'm guessing this is her first house, and that she's under considerable stress on the personal side. Added to that the stress at work, and you have someone who will either crumble or rise.

My suggestion is to talk to her about the house and what is going on at home. Get a pulse on just how well she is taking the stress. I doubt that it is an inability to perform the task that is crippling her so much as it is a response to a high stress time of life. Give her some tools to deal with the periphery, and then help her develop separation between the two environments.

As a manager, your role here is to manage staff - simply removing her is one way of managing, but it is the easy way, and may cripple her when future opportunities come to bring her into larger roles where she will be needed. A stronger manager would work to support and lift their staff.

If she doesn't respond to your support quickly, then you have keeping the promotion as both the carrot and the stick in this situation. Build the relationship first though, and strengthen her abilities to cope. Only good things can come from strengthening individuals on your team.
Something like this.
It is her responsibility for being so dumb. She cannot expect you to make up for it.
So go (best after work) to a peaceful place and ask her a bit - why did she do that, what was her reasoning.
Then ask her about the rest of the financial situation - chance is she has done other bad decisions, too.
Then try to give her advice - cancel cable etc. maybe even pointing directly to MMM.

If it works out you will win a friend an a (hopefully, in a bit of time) good and motivated worker.
If she rejects your tips she has problems I would not want in my coworkers. Lack of self control and leaning ability. At worst kick he rbefore it gets really bad for the company.

dsmexpat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12535 on: February 17, 2016, 10:21:25 AM »
While B is the most rational business choice there is more to life than Randian objectivism. If she's not coping in the current position it's very unlikely that threatening her with losing her house will improve her performance. Extreme stress typically doesn't help people, especially if she's already frequently near tears. As for teaching her a valuable lesson, maybe it will. But I suspect most of us didn't learn our lessons in such a brutal way. She can understand she made a mistake without being foreclosed on, losing her home and being out the difference between the balance on the mortgage and the amount the bank makes from the foreclosure. Falling over is enough to learn to look where you're walking, a broken leg doesn't serve to reinforce the lesson, it's just a handicap that prevents walking well even after you've learned to look.

For the business, you need to look at the costs of replacing her. It's entirely possible that they could be lower than the difference between the old and new salary. I lean towards C and then non renewal of the contract (giving her warning that she needs to be job hunting a long time in advance).

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12536 on: February 17, 2016, 10:36:27 AM »
While B is the most rational business choice there is more to life than Randian objectivism. If she's not coping in the current position it's very unlikely that threatening her with losing her house will improve her performance. Extreme stress typically doesn't help people, especially if she's already frequently near tears. As for teaching her a valuable lesson, maybe it will. But I suspect most of us didn't learn our lessons in such a brutal way. She can understand she made a mistake without being foreclosed on, losing her home and being out the difference between the balance on the mortgage and the amount the bank makes from the foreclosure. Falling over is enough to learn to look where you're walking, a broken leg doesn't serve to reinforce the lesson, it's just a handicap that prevents walking well even after you've learned to look.

For the business, you need to look at the costs of replacing her. It's entirely possible that they could be lower than the difference between the old and new salary. I lean towards C and then non renewal of the contract (giving her warning that she needs to be job hunting a long time in advance).

Unfortunately for her it's not his job to stand under her and be a safety net when she decides to start walking the tight rope.  Sometimes broken legs are the consequence for making poorly planned decisions and taking foolish risks.  I fear if he goes with option C she won't learn to watch where she is walking, she will learn that she can be completely reckless and she will be rewarded for it.

nobody123

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12537 on: February 17, 2016, 10:37:01 AM »
... So go (best after work) to a peaceful place and ask her a bit - why did she do that, what was her reasoning.
Then ask her about the rest of the financial situation - chance is she has done other bad decisions, too.
Then try to give her advice - cancel cable etc. maybe even pointing directly to MMM.

If it works out you will win a friend an a (hopefully, in a bit of time) good and motivated worker.
If she rejects your tips she has problems I would not want in my coworkers. Lack of self control and leaning ability. At worst kick he rbefore it gets really bad for the company.

As a manager, I can't disagree with this more.  You are her MANAGER not her FRIEND.  What she does in her personal life, how she deals with her finances, what happens outside of work is none of your business.  Yes, you need to have empathy and some knowledge of the subordinate as a person to build a healthy working relationship, but it's not your mission to "fix" their personal life or finances.  That is a gross overstepping of the bounds of the manager / subordinate relationship.  Some folks might consider that level of meddling into their personal life harassment or a hostile work environment, why would you open yourself up to that?

You have to do what is right for the company.  You give her a written performance improvement plans with some specific, measurable goals to attain over the next 90 days that are directly applicable to her responsibilities in this new position.  You coach her to help achieve those goals.  If she fails, demote as agreed to.  If she succeeds, you keep coaching so you have a productive employee.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12538 on: February 17, 2016, 10:46:44 AM »
While B is the most rational business choice there is more to life than Randian objectivism. If she's not coping in the current position it's very unlikely that threatening her with losing her house will improve her performance. Extreme stress typically doesn't help people, especially if she's already frequently near tears. As for teaching her a valuable lesson, maybe it will. But I suspect most of us didn't learn our lessons in such a brutal way. She can understand she made a mistake without being foreclosed on, losing her home and being out the difference between the balance on the mortgage and the amount the bank makes from the foreclosure. Falling over is enough to learn to look where you're walking, a broken leg doesn't serve to reinforce the lesson, it's just a handicap that prevents walking well even after you've learned to look.

For the business, you need to look at the costs of replacing her. It's entirely possible that they could be lower than the difference between the old and new salary. I lean towards C and then non renewal of the contract (giving her warning that she needs to be job hunting a long time in advance).

Unfortunately for her it's not his job to stand under her and be a safety net when she decides to start walking the tight rope.  Sometimes broken legs are the consequence for making poorly planned decisions and taking foolish risks.  I fear if he goes with option C she won't learn to watch where she is walking, she will learn that she can be completely reckless and she will be rewarded for it.

Who is the one that is going to have to pick up her slack if she stays in the position?
It might be cheaper to keep her, but not so if you have to pay a more expensive person overtime in order for the job to get done.

Unless it's your own company, I don't see how C could be an option.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12539 on: February 17, 2016, 11:06:19 AM »
While B is the most rational business choice there is more to life than Randian objectivism. If she's not coping in the current position it's very unlikely that threatening her with losing her house will improve her performance. Extreme stress typically doesn't help people, especially if she's already frequently near tears. As for teaching her a valuable lesson, maybe it will. But I suspect most of us didn't learn our lessons in such a brutal way. She can understand she made a mistake without being foreclosed on, losing her home and being out the difference between the balance on the mortgage and the amount the bank makes from the foreclosure. Falling over is enough to learn to look where you're walking, a broken leg doesn't serve to reinforce the lesson, it's just a handicap that prevents walking well even after you've learned to look.

For the business, you need to look at the costs of replacing her. It's entirely possible that they could be lower than the difference between the old and new salary. I lean towards C and then non renewal of the contract (giving her warning that she needs to be job hunting a long time in advance).

Unfortunately for her it's not his job to stand under her and be a safety net when she decides to start walking the tight rope.  Sometimes broken legs are the consequence for making poorly planned decisions and taking foolish risks.  I fear if he goes with option C she won't learn to watch where she is walking, she will learn that she can be completely reckless and she will be rewarded for it.

Who is the one that is going to have to pick up her slack if she stays in the position?
It might be cheaper to keep her, but not so if you have to pay a more expensive person overtime in order for the job to get done.

Unless it's your own company, I don't see how C could be an option.

Option C was to demote her back to her old responsibilities, yet still pay her inflated salary.  I don't know how anyone could ever justify that solution under any circumstances.  Unless it's your own company and you feel like giving her charity for making bad decisions, but even then I don't think you should.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12540 on: February 17, 2016, 11:41:12 AM »
... So go (best after work) to a peaceful place and ask her a bit - why did she do that, what was her reasoning.
Then ask her about the rest of the financial situation - chance is she has done other bad decisions, too.
Then try to give her advice - cancel cable etc. maybe even pointing directly to MMM.

If it works out you will win a friend an a (hopefully, in a bit of time) good and motivated worker.
If she rejects your tips she has problems I would not want in my coworkers. Lack of self control and leaning ability. At worst kick he rbefore it gets really bad for the company.
Leadership 101
As a manager, I can't disagree with this more.  You are her MANAGER not her FRIEND.  What she does in her personal life, how she deals with her finances, what happens outside of work is none of your business.  Yes, you need to have empathy and some knowledge of the subordinate as a person to build a healthy working relationship, but it's not your mission to "fix" their personal life or finances.  That is a gross overstepping of the bounds of the manager / subordinate relationship.  Some folks might consider that level of meddling into their personal life harassment or a hostile work environment, why would you open yourself up to that?

You have to do what is right for the company.  You give her a written performance improvement plans with some specific, measurable goals to attain over the next 90 days that are directly applicable to her responsibilities in this new position.  You coach her to help achieve those goals.  If she fails, demote as agreed to.  If she succeeds, you keep coaching so you have a productive employee.

boarder42

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12541 on: February 17, 2016, 11:43:11 AM »
1. cooking - pretty much open ended and if you follow the all recipes path and start cooking recipes you think you'll like while reading comments you will learn to improvise and learn to COOK

2. baking  - SET ingredients and measurements and cook times and rest times etc. to cook it correctly

I disagree, I've never understood why baking is considered different from cooking.  I use recipes as a general guideline, but I ultimately go by feel for both.  For instance, after doing bread or cookies a few times I know what the proper water content should be before putting them in the oven.  It's not always the specified amount.  I've also never been able to use baking times exactly.  Gotta go by look or toothpick.  If baking was an exact science then recipes would never change.  There'd only be one chocolate chip cookie recipe out there :-(  Baking as with cooking: experiment, wing it!

baking is chemistry its very simple.  there are multiple recipes b/c people like things different. 

i cant just decide to add extra flour or water to something without it ruining a chemical reaction.  if i want a brothier soup i can add more liquid and still end up with soup.
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Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12542 on: February 17, 2016, 11:52:22 AM »
1. cooking - pretty much open ended and if you follow the all recipes path and start cooking recipes you think you'll like while reading comments you will learn to improvise and learn to COOK

2. baking  - SET ingredients and measurements and cook times and rest times etc. to cook it correctly

I disagree, I've never understood why baking is considered different from cooking.  I use recipes as a general guideline, but I ultimately go by feel for both.  For instance, after doing bread or cookies a few times I know what the proper water content should be before putting them in the oven.  It's not always the specified amount.  I've also never been able to use baking times exactly.  Gotta go by look or toothpick.  If baking was an exact science then recipes would never change.  There'd only be one chocolate chip cookie recipe out there :-(  Baking as with cooking: experiment, wing it!

baking is chemistry its very simple.  there are multiple recipes b/c people like things different. 

i cant just decide to add extra flour or water to something without it ruining a chemical reaction.  if i want a brothier soup i can add more liquid and still end up with soup.

Ehh, baking is somewhere in the middle. You can futz with things slightly, but not completely. Like for chocolate chip cookies, you can add orange instead of vanilla (which is yummy, by the way). You can use more or less fat or change the kind of fat you use or even how you order the ingredients (will impact how crispy/soft and the size of the cookies). What you can't do, though, is change the ratio between liquid and solid.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12543 on: February 17, 2016, 11:53:19 AM »
baking is chemistry its very simple.  there are multiple recipes b/c people like things different. 

I could say the same thing about cooking.  They're both just putting a bunch of shit together and cooking it till it's done.

i cant just decide to add extra flour or water to something without it ruining a chemical reaction.

But I do.  I rarely am able to use exact ingredients and have it turn out ideal.  Differences in relative humidity between the recipe creator and my apartment?  I don't know.  But I always go by look/feel when adding the last of the water, and stopping early or adding extra as needed.  Also might cut back on the cinnamon or go heavy on the peanut butter.  Am I screwing up a delicate chemical reaction?  Maybe, but I've never created mustard gas, so I think it's ok ;-)

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12544 on: February 17, 2016, 12:16:01 PM »
... So go (best after work) to a peaceful place and ask her a bit - why did she do that, what was her reasoning.
Then ask her about the rest of the financial situation - chance is she has done other bad decisions, too.
Then try to give her advice - cancel cable etc. maybe even pointing directly to MMM.

If it works out you will win a friend an a (hopefully, in a bit of time) good and motivated worker.
If she rejects your tips she has problems I would not want in my coworkers. Lack of self control and leaning ability. At worst kick he rbefore it gets really bad for the company.
Leadership 101
As a manager, I can't disagree with this more.  You are her MANAGER not her FRIEND.  What she does in her personal life, how she deals with her finances, what happens outside of work is none of your business.  Yes, you need to have empathy and some knowledge of the subordinate as a person to build a healthy working relationship, but it's not your mission to "fix" their personal life or finances.  That is a gross overstepping of the bounds of the manager / subordinate relationship.  Some folks might consider that level of meddling into their personal life harassment or a hostile work environment, why would you open yourself up to that?

You have to do what is right for the company.  You give her a written performance improvement plans with some specific, measurable goals to attain over the next 90 days that are directly applicable to her responsibilities in this new position.  You coach her to help achieve those goals.  If she fails, demote as agreed to.  If she succeeds, you keep coaching so you have a productive employee.
Yeah, sorry, I am used to volunteers, not human capital. By all means change her like a lightbulb, but please never talk about burnout.

shadowmoss

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12545 on: February 17, 2016, 12:52:47 PM »
I was just coming on to say that I would report a manager who pried into my personal financial decisions so fast it would me his head spin.  It is not his business.  However, it is also not part of the decision process on her pay or responsibilities.  Let me be the grown-up she is.  You most likely would not consider having these issues with a new male graduate.  You might have a talk about how he needs to man-up to his new adult responsibilities at work and in his personal financial decisions, but I'm guessing it wouldn't impact his pay in the way you are letting this female get to you.

BTW, I'm a 60+ female who has worked in a male-dominated industry pretty much my entire career.
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Nederstash

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12546 on: February 17, 2016, 01:05:25 PM »
Wow, so many responses! Thanks! We actually came up with a solution we're both happy with: she's going to do a specific selection of tasks of the highed paid position for half her time, the other half of her time she will do her old job. I managed to divide the remaining 'higher' tasks to other coworkers. Her new pay will be halfway between old and higher pay. She can make this work with her mortgage. I feel this meets everyone's needs - it's only temporary until her contract expires, the work is getting done and her pay will reflect her work. I have a feeling that the lower stress levels will make her do the 'higher' tasks better. I think she got in way over her head and now she gets some room to breathe. I did stress that she's only on a year contract so she will need to hunt for jobs again in due time, because both jobs are temporary projects. But she knew that before her mortgage... *headdesk* I hope she'll find something, because I'm not going to bail her out again. As many of you pointed out, that's not the company's objective.

Thanks again everyone!

Nederstash

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12547 on: February 17, 2016, 01:22:42 PM »
I was just coming on to say that I would report a manager who pried into my personal financial decisions so fast it would me his head spin.  It is not his business.  However, it is also not part of the decision process on her pay or responsibilities.  Let me be the grown-up she is.  You most likely would not consider having these issues with a new male graduate.  You might have a talk about how he needs to man-up to his new adult responsibilities at work and in his personal financial decisions, but I'm guessing it wouldn't impact his pay in the way you are letting this female get to you.

BTW, I'm a 60+ female who has worked in a male-dominated industry pretty much my entire career.

I don't think I would have made a different decision if it was a man. Can't fully prove that, seeing as I don't expect to see such terrible money management in *anyone* ever again :) I would like to add that I didn't pry into her finances; she brought it up as a reason not to honour the agreement. Prying into private affairs would be a terrible thing for a manager to do!

I'm also not in a male-dominated industry, about 60% is female (including me).
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 01:24:38 PM by Nederstash »

nobody123

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12548 on: February 17, 2016, 01:27:06 PM »
Wow, so many responses! Thanks! We actually came up with a solution we're both happy with: she's going to do a specific selection of tasks of the highed paid position for half her time, the other half of her time she will do her old job. I managed to divide the remaining 'higher' tasks to other coworkers. Her new pay will be halfway between old and higher pay. She can make this work with her mortgage. I feel this meets everyone's needs - it's only temporary until her contract expires, the work is getting done and her pay will reflect her work. I have a feeling that the lower stress levels will make her do the 'higher' tasks better. I think she got in way over her head and now she gets some room to breathe. I did stress that she's only on a year contract so she will need to hunt for jobs again in due time, because both jobs are temporary projects. But she knew that before her mortgage... *headdesk* I hope she'll find something, because I'm not going to bail her out again. As many of you pointed out, that's not the company's objective.

Thanks again everyone!

Hopefully you have the new agreement and pay level in writing.  I wouldn't put it past someone in a desperate financial situation to sue you for "missing" back pay once the contract is up.

shadowmoss

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #12549 on: February 17, 2016, 01:58:45 PM »
I don't think I would have made a different decision if it was a man. Can't fully prove that, seeing as I don't expect to see such terrible money management in *anyone* ever again :) I would like to add that I didn't pry into her finances; she brought it up as a reason not to honour the agreement. Prying into private affairs would be a terrible thing for a manager to do!

I'm also not in a male-dominated industry, about 60% is female (including me).

Consider my sanctimonious halo duly knocked off.  My comment had more of my own baggage than I realized.  My true apologies.

I do think you will see even more of this type of bad financial decisions, though.  It is pretty common.
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