Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8263746 times)

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15400 on: October 24, 2016, 02:19:08 PM »
Because of marginal tax rates the first dollar is only taxed at ~10%, while the last dollar may have been taxed at ~33%. Thus, using the first $10 would only really cost $11 while if you used the last $10 it costs you more like $15.
The first dollar is at a zero rate, or possibly even a negative marginal rate, with little things like EITC and saver's credits....
Actually, that first dollar only has a marginal rate of 0% if you have non-refundable credits that take your total tax to $0.  If you've got refundable credits greater than your total tax (i.e. if you have lots of kids), the marginal rate for that first dollar is still 10%.  Source: me doing my taxes earlier this year.
Your first dollar of taxable income isn't the same as your first dollar of income. Source: standard deduction, personal exemption, and so on.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15401 on: October 24, 2016, 02:44:42 PM »
Because of marginal tax rates the first dollar is only taxed at ~10%, while the last dollar may have been taxed at ~33%. Thus, using the first $10 would only really cost $11 while if you used the last $10 it costs you more like $15.
The first dollar is at a zero rate, or possibly even a negative marginal rate, with little things like EITC and saver's credits....
Actually, that first dollar only has a marginal rate of 0% if you have non-refundable credits that take your total tax to $0.  If you've got refundable credits greater than your total tax (i.e. if you have lots of kids), the marginal rate for that first dollar is still 10%.  Source: me doing my taxes earlier this year.
Your first dollar of taxable income isn't the same as your first dollar of income. Source: standard deduction, personal exemption, and so on.
We're both correct, just talking about two different scenarios.  You're correct if deductions and exemptions reduce taxable income to $0.  I'm correct if the "This is your tax" line is >$0 but non-refundable credits reduce the tax to $0

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15402 on: October 24, 2016, 02:48:47 PM »
I'm pretty sure that what I'm saying is accurate for either scenario, but I may be missing something.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15403 on: October 24, 2016, 03:32:53 PM »
I'm pretty sure that what I'm saying is accurate for either scenario, but I may be missing something.
You know what?  You're right--I was thinking about things backwards.  Sorry!

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15404 on: October 24, 2016, 03:35:08 PM »
I'm pretty sure that what I'm saying is accurate for either scenario, but I may be missing something.
You know what?  You're right--I was thinking about things backwards.  Sorry!
NP, let's hug it out.

arebelspy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15405 on: October 24, 2016, 06:50:18 PM »
Only on the MMM forums would that stupid joke I made generate a dozen posts of discussion.  I heart you guys.  :)
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ender

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15406 on: October 24, 2016, 07:52:59 PM »
Because of marginal tax rates the first dollar is only taxed at ~10%, while the last dollar may have been taxed at ~33%. Thus, using the first $10 would only really cost $11 while if you used the last $10 it costs you more like $15.
The first dollar is at a zero rate, or possibly even a negative marginal rate, with little things like EITC and saver's credits....

depends on FICA too ;)

cerat0n1a

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15407 on: October 25, 2016, 04:44:08 AM »
Only on the MMM forums would that stupid joke I made generate a dozen posts of discussion.  I heart you guys.  :)

I was admiring the fact that the OP had framed the problem in , I'd responded with UK tax rate examples and we'd then segued into the intricacies of the US tax code ;-) Maybe if I'd pointed out that the tradesperson might have to charge 20% VAT on the work too, depending on the size of their business, we could have digressed onto the intricacies of sales tax?

Back on topic, company I work for was acquired a couple of months back. All employees had share options, so everyone has an unexpected lump of cash. Company paid for a lot of (good quality) financial advice re pensions, tax, ISAs and other investments and (lots of mathematically minded engineers here) most people have been pretty sensible.

Lady I work with calculated that laser surgery on her eyes would pay back vs the cost of contact lenses pretty quickly and has had the operation, which seems OK. However, she's also bought a new BMW on finance (6% interest rate) in spite of having the cash, because "the dealer threw in 12 months free insurance if you took their finance package."

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15408 on: October 25, 2016, 05:36:11 AM »
However, she's also bought a new BMW on finance (6% interest rate) in spite of having the cash, because "the dealer threw in 12 months free insurance if you took their finance package."
I gues she doesn't know how cheap insurance is. I was surprised too when my dealer said it costs him about 50 per year. Ok, was a cheap car, but still.

kayvent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15409 on: October 25, 2016, 05:46:49 AM »
Only on the MMM forums would that stupid joke I made generate a dozen posts of discussion.  I heart you guys.  :)

I was admiring the fact that the OP had framed the problem in , I'd responded with UK tax rate examples and we'd then segued into the intricacies of the US tax code ;-) Maybe if I'd pointed out that the tradesperson might have to charge 20% VAT on the work too, depending on the size of their business, we could have digressed onto the intricacies of sales tax?

Back on topic, company I work for was acquired a couple of months back. All employees had share options, so everyone has an unexpected lump of cash. Company paid for a lot of (good quality) financial advice re pensions, tax, ISAs and other investments and (lots of mathematically minded engineers here) most people have been pretty sensible.

Lady I work with calculated that laser surgery on her eyes would pay back vs the cost of contact lenses pretty quickly and has had the operation, which seems OK. However, she's also bought a new BMW on finance (6% interest rate) in spite of having the cash, because "the dealer threw in 12 months free insurance if you took their finance package."

She bought the BMW because the dealer threw in the insurance, she bought it on financing terms because of the insurance, or she bought the BMW AND financed it because of the free insurance?

If it is 6% and no interest in the first X-months (and she can pay it off before then), that's not a horrible deal. Except for the BMW.

cerat0n1a

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15410 on: October 25, 2016, 05:58:36 AM »
she bought it on financing terms because of the insurance.
If it is 6% and no interest in the first X-months (and she can pay it off before then), that's not a horrible deal.

I don't think there's any interest free period and she can't pay off early. I reckon the 6% interest will cost her over 4000 over the term of the loan. The insurance is probably approaching 1000 - it's only for the first year.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15411 on: October 25, 2016, 07:46:56 AM »
she bought it on financing terms because of the insurance.
If it is 6% and no interest in the first X-months (and she can pay it off before then), that's not a horrible deal.

I don't think there's any interest free period and she can't pay off early. I reckon the 6% interest will cost her over 4000 over the term of the loan. The insurance is probably approaching 1000 - it's only for the first year.

Globally, there's still a lot of variation in terms of what the laws allow lenders to do. Not accepting early loan payoffs, or charging a fee for them, is not legal everywhere. It pays to know the laws of the country, province, and state you're living in.

sleepyguy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15412 on: October 25, 2016, 08:17:44 AM »
Chatting sports over instant msg to a coworker of mine in the US.  Nice but generally complains about money problems, underwater mortgage, car payments, kids expenses, nothing saved for retirement, working til 75, etc etc. 

Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15413 on: October 25, 2016, 09:50:16 AM »
Not my workplace.

Wife tells me last night that her boss, the CFO (in his upper 50s/low60s, makes $200k + bonus) said that he needs to work another 20 years to pay off his house. He thinks he'll be working past retirement age. Meanwhile he has no qualms on throwing a wedding at Disney for one of his kids, annual Disney passes (staying at resort hotels). From what I've heard, he's an enabler for his kids. His wife is always getting some form of plastic surgery.

My comment: So we're closer to retirement than him, huh? (Hooray, Team Jinga Nation!) In other news, sunny with blue skies in Tampa Bay.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15414 on: October 25, 2016, 10:35:40 AM »
Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

Sounds crazy, but with me and my husband both being lifelong Cubs fans, I don't find this shocking at all. In fact, we considered buying tickets for a game as a once-in-a-lifetime experience, but honestly, if the Cubs lost that game, my soul would be crushed. Not worth the risk. (On the other hand, if the Cubs won the game, I would consider that money well spent. Crazy, I know.)

onlykelsey

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15415 on: October 25, 2016, 10:40:01 AM »
Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

Sounds crazy, but with me and my husband both being lifelong Cubs fans, I don't find this shocking at all. In fact, we considered buying tickets for a game as a once-in-a-lifetime experience, but honestly, if the Cubs lost that game, my soul would be crushed. Not worth the risk. (On the other hand, if the Cubs won the game, I would consider that money well spent. Crazy, I know.)

Sure, but I imagine you are not planning on working until you drop dead and have enough money to pay your bills and save for retirement, no?

Miss Piggy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15416 on: October 25, 2016, 10:41:44 AM »
Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

Sounds crazy, but with me and my husband both being lifelong Cubs fans, I don't find this shocking at all. In fact, we considered buying tickets for a game as a once-in-a-lifetime experience, but honestly, if the Cubs lost that game, my soul would be crushed. Not worth the risk. (On the other hand, if the Cubs won the game, I would consider that money well spent. Crazy, I know.)

Sure, but I imagine you are not planning on working until you drop dead and have enough money to pay your bills and save for retirement, no?

You imagine correctly. We are FI with plans to RE in a few years. So yeah, it would set us back a week or two. ;)

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15417 on: October 25, 2016, 10:51:26 AM »
Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

Sounds crazy, but with me and my husband both being lifelong Cubs fans, I don't find this shocking at all. In fact, we considered buying tickets for a game as a once-in-a-lifetime experience, but honestly, if the Cubs lost that game, my soul would be crushed. Not worth the risk. (On the other hand, if the Cubs won the game, I would consider that money well spent. Crazy, I know.)

Sure, but I imagine you are not planning on working until you drop dead and have enough money to pay your bills and save for retirement, no?

You imagine correctly. We are FI with plans to RE in a few years. So yeah, it would set us back a week or two. ;)

My wife, generally pretty frugal, is working on convincing me to go to a game (by myself). I'm looking hard for a ticket on craigslist. I'm considering driving to Cleveland and back tomorrow and seeing one there.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15418 on: October 25, 2016, 11:02:42 AM »
My wife, generally pretty frugal, is working on convincing me to go to a game (by myself). I'm looking hard for a ticket on craigslist. I'm considering driving to Cleveland and back tomorrow and seeing one there.

Something doesn't seem very safe about buying a ticket like this (at current prices) on Craigslist. Is there something I don't know about safely buying tickets on Craigslist, or are you just hoping for the best? For some reason, StubHub seems safe to me, but Craigslist doesn't.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15419 on: October 25, 2016, 11:10:34 AM »
My wife, generally pretty frugal, is working on convincing me to go to a game (by myself). I'm looking hard for a ticket on craigslist. I'm considering driving to Cleveland and back tomorrow and seeing one there.

Something doesn't seem very safe about buying a ticket like this (at current prices) on Craigslist. Is there something I don't know about safely buying tickets on Craigslist, or are you just hoping for the best? For some reason, StubHub seems safe to me, but Craigslist doesn't.

There are ways to protect yourself.
1: Transfer on ticketmaster, where a new barcode is generated and the old one null and void (and they won't have access to it)
2: In person transaction, at a police station, where I can obtain the persons information including drivers license, license plate number, and do a thorough search on them (facebook, linkedin, google)
3: Cash transaction at the ballpark, where I am in front of them in line, hand the cashiers check/cash to them immediately prior to entering the stadium (I enter before them).

You're right though, it does require due diligence. I've already backed out of one deal prior to this (different game; it was only $50 for that one). The one time I did a cash for physical ticket transaction prior to the game was from a fireman, and the transaction was conducted in his Chief's office.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15420 on: October 25, 2016, 11:26:19 AM »
My wife, generally pretty frugal, is working on convincing me to go to a game (by myself). I'm looking hard for a ticket on craigslist. I'm considering driving to Cleveland and back tomorrow and seeing one there.

Something doesn't seem very safe about buying a ticket like this (at current prices) on Craigslist. Is there something I don't know about safely buying tickets on Craigslist, or are you just hoping for the best? For some reason, StubHub seems safe to me, but Craigslist doesn't.

I bought tickets to the world series last year because I'm a Mets fan. They lost and I was sad, but having the opportunity to go before moving away from the NYC area was well worth it. I used StubHub.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15421 on: October 25, 2016, 11:33:28 AM »
There are ways to protect yourself.
1: Transfer on ticketmaster, where a new barcode is generated and the old one null and void (and they won't have access to it)
2: In person transaction, at a police station, where I can obtain the persons information including drivers license, license plate number, and do a thorough search on them (facebook, linkedin, google)
3: Cash transaction at the ballpark, where I am in front of them in line, hand the cashiers check/cash to them immediately prior to entering the stadium (I enter before them).

You're right though, it does require due diligence. I've already backed out of one deal prior to this (different game; it was only $50 for that one). The one time I did a cash for physical ticket transaction prior to the game was from a fireman, and the transaction was conducted in his Chief's office.

Good suggestions. I especially like the Ticketmaster transfer. Was not aware of that option.

BDWW

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15422 on: October 25, 2016, 12:02:05 PM »
Chatting sports over instant msg to a coworker of mine in the US.  Nice but generally complains about money problems, underwater mortgage, car payments, kids expenses, nothing saved for retirement, working til 75, etc etc. 

Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

It's kind of nice being a soccer fan, MLS tickets are rarely more than $50 bucks. Even in Europe most of the tickets are less than $100. It's kind of an American thing to pay ridiculous amount of money to watch a game live.

druth

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15423 on: October 25, 2016, 12:19:52 PM »
Chatting sports over instant msg to a coworker of mine in the US.  Nice but generally complains about money problems, underwater mortgage, car payments, kids expenses, nothing saved for retirement, working til 75, etc etc. 

Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

Is that for the whole trip everything included or just the tickets?  I'm paying a lot less than that to go to Europe for a month...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15424 on: October 25, 2016, 12:41:43 PM »
Overheard at work and pissing me off: "Oh, this team of people is refusing to do *thing that has been determined they will be doing as part of their daily duties* because they feel like the decision to do it has been imposed on them."

Like... Yes? Yes, in fact, that's the trade you make by having a job. You accept that someone else can tell you want the job entails, and in return you get X amount of money. If you are unhappy with that, you have options: you can look for another job, you can quit and live on savings, you can protest (if you're part of a union, I guess - and, frankly, this is not a big thing, so good luck protesting).

But saying "I want to get paid while not accomplishing tasks that have been determined I should do because I didn't decide to do it" is just... lady. you are missing the point so hard. If you want to stay home and have money, work to be FI. Until then, you are selling your time, and you do your job. WTF.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15425 on: October 25, 2016, 12:44:19 PM »
Overheard at work and pissing me off: "Oh, this team of people is refusing to do *thing that has been determined they will be doing as part of their daily duties* because they feel like the decision to do it has been imposed on them."

Like... Yes? Yes, in fact, that's the trade you make by having a job. You accept that someone else can tell you want the job entails, and in return you get X amount of money. If you are unhappy with that, you have options: you can look for another job, you can quit and live on savings, you can protest (if you're part of a union, I guess - and, frankly, this is not a big thing, so good luck protesting).

But saying "I want to get paid while not accomplishing tasks that have been determined I should do because I didn't decide to do it" is just... lady. you are missing the point so hard. If you want to stay home and have money, work to be FI. Until then, you are selling your time, and you do your job. WTF.

That's a slippery slope though, and there are probably times when a protest is warranted (not making a judgment here).

Signed,
A senior female engineer who finally said "fuck you, do your own damn Fed ex".

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15426 on: October 25, 2016, 12:47:36 PM »
Chatting sports over instant msg to a coworker of mine in the US.  Nice but generally complains about money problems, underwater mortgage, car payments, kids expenses, nothing saved for retirement, working til 75, etc etc. 

Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

It's kind of nice being a soccer fan, MLS tickets are rarely more than $50 bucks. Even in Europe most of the tickets are less than $100. It's kind of an American thing to pay ridiculous amount of money to watch a game live.

WS tickets aren't typical FYI.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15427 on: October 25, 2016, 12:47:49 PM »
Chatting sports over instant msg to a coworker of mine in the US.  Nice but generally complains about money problems, underwater mortgage, car payments, kids expenses, nothing saved for retirement, working til 75, etc etc. 

Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

It's kind of nice being a soccer fan, MLS tickets are rarely more than $50 bucks. Even in Europe most of the tickets are less than $100. It's kind of an American thing to pay ridiculous amount of money to watch a game live.

Meh, not quite comparable as this is the soccer equivalent of the world cup (which is WAAAYYYYYY more than 100 bucks).

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15428 on: October 25, 2016, 12:48:45 PM »
Overheard at work and pissing me off: "Oh, this team of people is refusing to do *thing that has been determined they will be doing as part of their daily duties* because they feel like the decision to do it has been imposed on them."

Like... Yes? Yes, in fact, that's the trade you make by having a job. You accept that someone else can tell you want the job entails, and in return you get X amount of money. If you are unhappy with that, you have options: you can look for another job, you can quit and live on savings, you can protest (if you're part of a union, I guess - and, frankly, this is not a big thing, so good luck protesting).

But saying "I want to get paid while not accomplishing tasks that have been determined I should do because I didn't decide to do it" is just... lady. you are missing the point so hard. If you want to stay home and have money, work to be FI. Until then, you are selling your time, and you do your job. WTF.

That's a slippery slope though, and there are probably times when a protest is warranted (not making a judgment here).

Signed,
A senior female engineer who finally said "fuck you, do your own damn Fed ex".

This is more along the lines of saying "we want the highly-paid upper management to stop doing X repetitve and administrative task, and so middle management will do it", and middle management is whining about decisions about their workload being made from above.

But yes, I get your point. I also wouldn't be doing the damned fedex, wtf.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15429 on: October 25, 2016, 12:59:21 PM »
Chatting sports over instant msg to a coworker of mine in the US.  Nice but generally complains about money problems, underwater mortgage, car payments, kids expenses, nothing saved for retirement, working til 75, etc etc. 

Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

It's kind of nice being a soccer fan, MLS tickets are rarely more than $50 bucks. Even in Europe most of the tickets are less than $100. It's kind of an American thing to pay ridiculous amount of money to watch a game live.

WS tickets aren't typical FYI.

Yeah--I went to 3 Cubs games this year, at Wrigley. One was free (Face $15). One I paid about $70 for two tickets, and the third was $30.

This is the two longest title droughts playing each other in the World Series. It would be similar to West Brom playing Sunderland for the Premier League championship, or England playing Uruguay in the World Cup Finals.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15430 on: October 25, 2016, 01:47:34 PM »
Overheard at work and pissing me off: "Oh, this team of people is refusing to do *thing that has been determined they will be doing as part of their daily duties* because they feel like the decision to do it has been imposed on them."

Like... Yes? Yes, in fact, that's the trade you make by having a job. You accept that someone else can tell you want the job entails, and in return you get X amount of money. If you are unhappy with that, you have options: you can look for another job, you can quit and live on savings, you can protest (if you're part of a union, I guess - and, frankly, this is not a big thing, so good luck protesting).

But saying "I want to get paid while not accomplishing tasks that have been determined I should do because I didn't decide to do it" is just... lady. you are missing the point so hard. If you want to stay home and have money, work to be FI. Until then, you are selling your time, and you do your job. WTF.

That's a slippery slope though, and there are probably times when a protest is warranted (not making a judgment here).

Signed,
A senior female engineer who finally said "fuck you, do your own damn Fed ex".

This is more along the lines of saying "we want the highly-paid upper management to stop doing X repetitve and administrative task, and so middle management will do it", and middle management is whining about decisions about their workload being made from above.

But yes, I get your point. I also wouldn't be doing the damned fedex, wtf.
If you're salaried, I can totally understand being upset being tasked more than you agreed on.  If you now have to stay later, and don't get paid more, I'd totally be mad.  Even if you have to stay later to do it, and you get paid straight overtime, I might be mad.  If I can do it in my normal time, then I probably wouldn't care. 

I have ass in chair rules.  I can't leave early, and I can't work overtime unless I go through a painful process to get approved, so task me whatever you want :)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15431 on: October 25, 2016, 01:53:03 PM »
Chatting sports over instant msg to a coworker of mine in the US.  Nice but generally complains about money problems, underwater mortgage, car payments, kids expenses, nothing saved for retirement, working til 75, etc etc. 

Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

It's kind of nice being a soccer fan, MLS tickets are rarely more than $50 bucks. Even in Europe most of the tickets are less than $100. It's kind of an American thing to pay ridiculous amount of money to watch a game live.

Meh, not quite comparable as this is the soccer equivalent of the world cup (which is WAAAYYYYYY more than 100 bucks).

lol, should of known that would open a can of worms. A domestic league championship the same as the world cup? Eh ok. Being generous and comparing it to UEFA Champions league, tickets start at ~$200 and top out at $500.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15432 on: October 25, 2016, 01:56:15 PM »
Chatting sports over instant msg to a coworker of mine in the US.  Nice but generally complains about money problems, underwater mortgage, car payments, kids expenses, nothing saved for retirement, working til 75, etc etc. 

Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

It's kind of nice being a soccer fan, MLS tickets are rarely more than $50 bucks. Even in Europe most of the tickets are less than $100. It's kind of an American thing to pay ridiculous amount of money to watch a game live.

Meh, not quite comparable as this is the soccer equivalent of the world cup (which is WAAAYYYYYY more than 100 bucks).

lol, should of known that would open a can of worms. A domestic league championship the same as the world cup? Eh ok. Being generous and comparing it to UEFA Champions league, tickets start at ~$200 and top out at $500.

LOL! In general ticket prices are bonkers. I personally think $50 for a ticket is way too much for me to spend on entertainment. The last football game I went to was a treat given by a friend, but I was dismayed to see the tickets cost $62 each, plus additional for off-site parking (you park in a non-busy part of the city and there are buses to take you to the game). As a result I don't go to sporting events anymore.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15433 on: October 25, 2016, 01:59:52 PM »
Chatting sports over instant msg to a coworker of mine in the US.  Nice but generally complains about money problems, underwater mortgage, car payments, kids expenses, nothing saved for retirement, working til 75, etc etc. 

Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

It's kind of nice being a soccer fan, MLS tickets are rarely more than $50 bucks. Even in Europe most of the tickets are less than $100. It's kind of an American thing to pay ridiculous amount of money to watch a game live.

Meh, not quite comparable as this is the soccer equivalent of the world cup (which is WAAAYYYYYY more than 100 bucks).

lol, should of known that would open a can of worms. A domestic league championship the same as the world cup? Eh ok. Being generous and comparing it to UEFA Champions league, tickets start at ~$200 and top out at $500.

I cannot get in to Wrigley for less than $1,700 using a secure website. That gets me a limited view and no seat.

World Series for the Cubs. Completely different ballgame here.

Verdandi

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15434 on: October 25, 2016, 03:23:57 PM »
Overheard today:
Colleague: " you can't possibly have your retirement Set up financially by the age of 50."
Me: "um well you actually can. I will have it organized and set up by 35."
Followed by silence, followed by the explanation that they pay a ridiculously high rent and plan to go on a Safari in South africa soon.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15435 on: October 25, 2016, 03:40:28 PM »
Overheard today:
Colleague: " you can't possibly have your retirement Set up financially by the age of 50."
Me: "um well you actually can. I will have it organized and set up by 35."
Followed by silence, followed by the explanation that they pay a ridiculously high rent and plan to go on a Safari in South africa soon.

Then they are correct!  They cannot eat their cake and then expect to collect dividends from it.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15436 on: October 25, 2016, 10:51:01 PM »
I was at a meeting of several businesses in our community who are working with a local public educational institution for a technical training program for the businesses' employees.  Some of the businesses have been contributing cash to the educational institution to support the program's fixed costs.  These payments are quarterly and not huge, but over $1,000 and big enough to be noticed.  In my view, this is good because within my organization we have a conversation about why it's a good business decision to participate, and through this we get alignment and agreement about the program.

A new company is participating, and they have asked to pay monthly instead of quarterly to keep the expense down and under the radar.  In other words, the management at the local branch wants to participate and sees the value of the program in increasing their profitability, but they need to keep it under the radar so corporate doesn't notice.  They will be allowed to pay quarterly, of course, but isn't there something wrong with a business if their people have to cheat the system to make good business decisions for the company?


MsSindy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15437 on: October 26, 2016, 06:33:18 AM »
Meeting with me, my boss, and his peer (we're all roughly about the same age (50s) - my boss makes way more money than me and has for a long time).  We were discussing something that the peer wanted from us, and my boss says, "yeah, well I'd like to be a millionaire some day, too"  -- implying that neither the peer's request or being a millionaire is going to happen.  And I'm thinking, "huh, I'm already a millionaire!  ...and what a limiting mindset to have".  He's actually not that flashy, but spends a shit-ton on his 3 kids.  It just struck me as kind of funny.

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15438 on: October 26, 2016, 06:38:46 AM »
Overheard at work and pissing me off: "Oh, this team of people is refusing to do *thing that has been determined they will be doing as part of their daily duties* because they feel like the decision to do it has been imposed on them."

Like... Yes? Yes, in fact, that's the trade you make by having a job. You accept that someone else can tell you want the job entails, and in return you get X amount of money. If you are unhappy with that, you have options: you can look for another job, you can quit and live on savings, you can protest (if you're part of a union, I guess - and, frankly, this is not a big thing, so good luck protesting).

But saying "I want to get paid while not accomplishing tasks that have been determined I should do because I didn't decide to do it" is just... lady. you are missing the point so hard. If you want to stay home and have money, work to be FI. Until then, you are selling your time, and you do your job. WTF.

I'm with you so much on this!  (caveat for situations like MM1970 points out, of course).  I see this with the changes management makes in the clerical jobs.  Like, your whole job is to punch keys on a keyboard.  Now you are punching keys in a different program, or under different circumstances.  Why protest?  Are you so *in love* with what you do now, that doing something different is causing some kind of emotional pain?  I just don't get it.

And management has to tiptoe around their hang-ups just to get them to do their job (as it evolves over time).  Effort that should be unnecessary, if you ask me.  Grr.

I'm pretty sure that about 2/3 of management can directly be related to experience wrangling a group of toddlers in a daycare.

At least the toddlers have the excuse of being 2.

(No, I'm not at ALL annoyed at having to convince people to do work during the hours during which they're getting paid. Why do you ask?)

Cromacster

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15439 on: October 26, 2016, 07:56:44 AM »
Not myself, but my wife had a pretty good one.

She attended a retirement party for someone who had been with the company for 32 years.  Another coworker in her 40's said to her "I bet retirement isn't even on your radar yet".

My wife just smirked and half laughed.


sleepyguy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15440 on: October 26, 2016, 08:49:13 AM »
Just the tickets.

Chatting sports over instant msg to a coworker of mine in the US.  Nice but generally complains about money problems, underwater mortgage, car payments, kids expenses, nothing saved for retirement, working til 75, etc etc. 

Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

Is that for the whole trip everything included or just the tickets?  I'm paying a lot less than that to go to Europe for a month...

Torran

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15441 on: October 26, 2016, 09:10:05 AM »
Overheard at work and pissing me off: "Oh, this team of people is refusing to do *thing that has been determined they will be doing as part of their daily duties* because they feel like the decision to do it has been imposed on them."

Like... Yes? Yes, in fact, that's the trade you make by having a job. You accept that someone else can tell you want the job entails, and in return you get X amount of money. If you are unhappy with that, you have options: you can look for another job, you can quit and live on savings, you can protest (if you're part of a union, I guess - and, frankly, this is not a big thing, so good luck protesting).

But saying "I want to get paid while not accomplishing tasks that have been determined I should do because I didn't decide to do it" is just... lady. you are missing the point so hard. If you want to stay home and have money, work to be FI. Until then, you are selling your time, and you do your job. WTF.

I'm with you so much on this!  (caveat for situations like MM1970 points out, of course).  I see this with the changes management makes in the clerical jobs.  Like, your whole job is to punch keys on a keyboard.  Now you are punching keys in a different program, or under different circumstances.  Why protest?  Are you so *in love* with what you do now, that doing something different is causing some kind of emotional pain?  I just don't get it.

And management has to tiptoe around their hang-ups just to get them to do their job (as it evolves over time).  Effort that should be unnecessary, if you ask me.  Grr.

Ha yes, I second this. Obviously with exceptions - I mean, people need to be treated fairly in the workplace-  but yeah. I have seen the situation many times where bosses have asked staff to do stuff and staff have decided that means the beginning of a 6-month debate about whether or not they 'agree' to do it. Just FFFFing do it. It's your job!! If you're not being told to work longer hours for the same pay, or do something outside your payscale, then just DO IT *in the style of Shia Labeouf*

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15442 on: October 26, 2016, 09:21:47 AM »
Overheard at work and pissing me off: "Oh, this team of people is refusing to do *thing that has been determined they will be doing as part of their daily duties* because they feel like the decision to do it has been imposed on them."

Like... Yes? Yes, in fact, that's the trade you make by having a job. You accept that someone else can tell you want the job entails, and in return you get X amount of money. If you are unhappy with that, you have options: you can look for another job, you can quit and live on savings, you can protest (if you're part of a union, I guess - and, frankly, this is not a big thing, so good luck protesting).

But saying "I want to get paid while not accomplishing tasks that have been determined I should do because I didn't decide to do it" is just... lady. you are missing the point so hard. If you want to stay home and have money, work to be FI. Until then, you are selling your time, and you do your job. WTF.

I'm with you so much on this!  (caveat for situations like MM1970 points out, of course).  I see this with the changes management makes in the clerical jobs.  Like, your whole job is to punch keys on a keyboard.  Now you are punching keys in a different program, or under different circumstances.  Why protest?  Are you so *in love* with what you do now, that doing something different is causing some kind of emotional pain?  I just don't get it.

And management has to tiptoe around their hang-ups just to get them to do their job (as it evolves over time).  Effort that should be unnecessary, if you ask me.  Grr.

Ha yes, I second this. Obviously with exceptions - I mean, people need to be treated fairly in the workplace-  but yeah. I have seen the situation many times where bosses have asked staff to do stuff and staff have decided that means the beginning of a 6-month debate about whether or not they 'agree' to do it. Just FFFFing do it. It's your job!! If you're not being told to work longer hours for the same pay, or do something outside your payscale, then just DO IT *in the style of Shia Labeouf*

You guys would love the employees I've been blessed to manage. This is a tiny company- 6 employees in total (including me) and so we all wear multiple hats, doing whatever it takes to get the job done. This means that when things are slow, a guy from the warehouse will go around the office to clean up everything. We get the job done, whatever it is, and do so without complaining.

ducky19

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15443 on: October 26, 2016, 09:42:15 AM »
Just the tickets.

Chatting sports over instant msg to a coworker of mine in the US.  Nice but generally complains about money problems, underwater mortgage, car payments, kids expenses, nothing saved for retirement, working til 75, etc etc. 

Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

Is that for the whole trip everything included or just the tickets?  I'm paying a lot less than that to go to Europe for a month...

My neighbor has season tickets to the Cubs, and has already been offered $3000 for each game of 3 and 4 for two tickets. He's planning on selling those and going to game 5 for free. He told me of another guy he knew who was already up to $6000 for a pair for one game. It's the Cubs. This shit hasn't happened in 71 years (108 if they win). I'd never spend that much myself, but I can say I get it.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15444 on: October 26, 2016, 09:45:20 AM »
Just the tickets.

Chatting sports over instant msg to a coworker of mine in the US.  Nice but generally complains about money problems, underwater mortgage, car payments, kids expenses, nothing saved for retirement, working til 75, etc etc. 

Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

Is that for the whole trip everything included or just the tickets?  I'm paying a lot less than that to go to Europe for a month...

My neighbor has season tickets to the Cubs, and has already been offered $3000 for each game of 3 and 4 for two tickets. He's planning on selling those and going to game 5 for free. He told me of another guy he knew who was already up to $6000 for a pair for one game. It's the Cubs. This shit hasn't happened in 71 years (108 if they win). I'd never spend that much myself, but I can say I get it.

$3000 for two tickets, so $1,500 a ticket? Or is it $3000 a ticket? I might be interested at the $1,500 a ticket. Seriously.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15445 on: October 26, 2016, 10:00:28 AM »
Overheard at work and pissing me off: "Oh, this team of people is refusing to do *thing that has been determined they will be doing as part of their daily duties* because they feel like the decision to do it has been imposed on them."

Like... Yes? Yes, in fact, that's the trade you make by having a job. You accept that someone else can tell you want the job entails, and in return you get X amount of money. If you are unhappy with that, you have options: you can look for another job, you can quit and live on savings, you can protest (if you're part of a union, I guess - and, frankly, this is not a big thing, so good luck protesting).

But saying "I want to get paid while not accomplishing tasks that have been determined I should do because I didn't decide to do it" is just... lady. you are missing the point so hard. If you want to stay home and have money, work to be FI. Until then, you are selling your time, and you do your job. WTF.

That's a slippery slope though, and there are probably times when a protest is warranted (not making a judgment here).

Signed,
A senior female engineer who finally said "fuck you, do your own damn Fed ex".

This is more along the lines of saying "we want the highly-paid upper management to stop doing X repetitve and administrative task, and so middle management will do it", and middle management is whining about decisions about their workload being made from above.

But yes, I get your point. I also wouldn't be doing the damned fedex, wtf.
We had so many layoffs that we are now "too many chiefs, not enough Indians" - lots of VPs and directors.  I get that this stuff needs to get done.  I really do.  But all the crap work seemed to roll down hill.  I used to be middle management, but alas, now there's nobody left to manage.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15446 on: October 26, 2016, 10:03:49 AM »
Just the tickets.

Chatting sports over instant msg to a coworker of mine in the US.  Nice but generally complains about money problems, underwater mortgage, car payments, kids expenses, nothing saved for retirement, working til 75, etc etc. 

Told me he's going to all the World Series games all for a fantastic deal of $2500 (3 games).

me ---> <shock of silence>

Is that for the whole trip everything included or just the tickets?  I'm paying a lot less than that to go to Europe for a month...

My neighbor has season tickets to the Cubs, and has already been offered $3000 for each game of 3 and 4 for two tickets. He's planning on selling those and going to game 5 for free. He told me of another guy he knew who was already up to $6000 for a pair for one game. It's the Cubs. This shit hasn't happened in 71 years (108 if they win). I'd never spend that much myself, but I can say I get it.

$3000 for two tickets, so $1,500 a ticket? Or is it $3000 a ticket? I might be interested at the $1,500 a ticket. Seriously.
MMM meetup at the World Series :P

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15447 on: October 26, 2016, 10:05:59 AM »
Overheard at work and pissing me off: "Oh, this team of people is refusing to do *thing that has been determined they will be doing as part of their daily duties* because they feel like the decision to do it has been imposed on them."

Like... Yes? Yes, in fact, that's the trade you make by having a job. You accept that someone else can tell you want the job entails, and in return you get X amount of money. If you are unhappy with that, you have options: you can look for another job, you can quit and live on savings, you can protest (if you're part of a union, I guess - and, frankly, this is not a big thing, so good luck protesting).

But saying "I want to get paid while not accomplishing tasks that have been determined I should do because I didn't decide to do it" is just... lady. you are missing the point so hard. If you want to stay home and have money, work to be FI. Until then, you are selling your time, and you do your job. WTF.

I'm with you so much on this!  (caveat for situations like MM1970 points out, of course).  I see this with the changes management makes in the clerical jobs.  Like, your whole job is to punch keys on a keyboard.  Now you are punching keys in a different program, or under different circumstances.  Why protest?  Are you so *in love* with what you do now, that doing something different is causing some kind of emotional pain?  I just don't get it.

And management has to tiptoe around their hang-ups just to get them to do their job (as it evolves over time).  Effort that should be unnecessary, if you ask me.  Grr.

I'm pretty sure that about 2/3 of management can directly be related to experience wrangling a group of toddlers in a daycare.

At least the toddlers have the excuse of being 2.

(No, I'm not at ALL annoyed at having to convince people to do work during the hours during which they're getting paid. Why do you ask?)

I have more than once pointed out that motherhood is GREAT experience for management.  I've done both.

Dollar Slice

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15448 on: October 26, 2016, 10:41:20 AM »
Overheard at work and pissing me off: "Oh, this team of people is refusing to do *thing that has been determined they will be doing as part of their daily duties* because they feel like the decision to do it has been imposed on them."

Like... Yes? Yes, in fact, that's the trade you make by having a job. You accept that someone else can tell you want the job entails, and in return you get X amount of money. If you are unhappy with that, you have options: you can look for another job, you can quit and live on savings, you can protest (if you're part of a union, I guess - and, frankly, this is not a big thing, so good luck protesting).

But saying "I want to get paid while not accomplishing tasks that have been determined I should do because I didn't decide to do it" is just... lady. you are missing the point so hard. If you want to stay home and have money, work to be FI. Until then, you are selling your time, and you do your job. WTF.

That's a slippery slope though, and there are probably times when a protest is warranted (not making a judgment here).

Signed,
A senior female engineer who finally said "fuck you, do your own damn Fed ex".

Yeah, I can sympathize.

3 years ago I was the production manager for a magazine. I also helped a tiny bit with circulation, and I did some editing/proofreading. I also did occasional IT/help desk type stuff.

In the last three years I have been asked to add the following tasks:
All of the bookkeeping, invoicing, processing checks, paying bills etc.
Payroll & HR including dealing with health insurance
Administrative paperwork of various kinds (everything from Department of Labor audit to Worker's Comp insurance etc.)
Basically everything that involves the USPS (which is a lot, when you publish magazines)
Handling all magazine subscription renewal letters
Being the office manager (all the way down to making sure there are cups and forks available)
Assisting the sales team with all paperwork/spreadsheets they don't feel like doing
Taking over the 10-hour-a-week consultant's job doing our website
Taking over the 4x-a-week MailChimp e-mails
Writing a monthly magazine column

At some point I started refusing. At some point you can't just keep saying "Yes, boss!" You're supposed to have a job description - you have an agreement that you will take X money to do do Y job. Is it really OK to hire someone to be a print production manager and then tell them to do accounting and insurance instead?

PencilThinStash

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #15449 on: October 26, 2016, 11:52:05 AM »
Big Boss at work finally agreed to start up a 401k. He walked into my office and set the information booklet on my desk, then said, "Nothing you need to worry about for the next 20 years, but here it is anyways."

The lack of 401k was actually something that was bothering me about this job, so I told him honestly how excited I was that it was finally being implemented. His response? "Ha ha. Very funny, PencilThinStash, no need to be sarcastic."

My immediate supervisor was in the office with me and pointed out that I was being serious (she's a major long-term planner as well), but it blew my mind that he was basically telling his younger employees that retirement planning isn't important yet. He's got a couple kids around my age, I imagine they're getting similar advice from him. Kind of sad, really.

Looked through the booklet to see what funds were available. The "best" options are Target Date index funds with a 1.5% expense ratio. No company match on my contributions.

...yeah, I'm sticking with my Vanguard IRA and its .05% expense ratio. Thanks for trying, Big Boss.