Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 4746428 times)

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14800 on: August 24, 2016, 08:14:22 AM »
Oh no; the struggle is REAL - she would have to choose between Earl Grey, Orange Pekoe, and herbal tea. EVERY DAMNED DAY!!! How can you condemn someone to living like that!

(I just learned that I am not sure if the tea is an 'ey' grey, or an 'ay' gray. Also, what the heck is a Pekoe, and did I spell it right? Tea is confusing.)

The color is "grEy" in England (and the rest of the Commonwealth) and "grAy" in America. It's always Earl Grey, though, because that's the peerage title.

Pekoe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_leaf_grading

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14801 on: August 24, 2016, 08:19:28 AM »
had a convo with my coworker who constantly complains that her husband needs a better job ALSO orders breakfast AND lunch at work EVERYDAY

Me: i just increased my 401K above the company match (from 5% to 8%) hope i made the right decision instead of putting more towards other savings
her: i've been meaning to look into that
Me: look into which part, above the match? other savings? 8%?
Her: No, the 401K. I would like to but i just don't make enough
Me: you could bag your lunch or eat breakfast before you get here OR EAT THE FREE FOOD WE HAVE IN THE KITCHEN (english muffins, coffee, tea, soda, snacks, granola, etc.)
Her: I'm not going to struggle just to save a few dollars
Me: -___-

... Struggle?

We must have different interpretations of the word. Having tea and English muffins provided is lovely.

Oh no; the struggle is REAL - she would have to choose between Earl Grey, Orange Pekoe, and herbal tea. EVERY DAMNED DAY!!! How can you condemn someone to living like that!

(I just learned that I am not sure if the tea is an 'ey' grey, or an 'ay' gray. Also, what the heck is a Pekoe, and did I spell it right? Tea is confusing.)

It's grey.

Also, I'm English but don't know what you mean by English muffin...

Paul der Krake

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14802 on: August 24, 2016, 08:33:50 AM »
Also, I'm English but don't know what you mean by English muffin...
It's just a muffin. Usually found by the crumpets.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14803 on: August 24, 2016, 08:36:36 AM »
had a convo with my coworker who constantly complains that her husband needs a better job ALSO orders breakfast AND lunch at work EVERYDAY

Me: i just increased my 401K above the company match (from 5% to 8%) hope i made the right decision instead of putting more towards other savings
her: i've been meaning to look into that
Me: look into which part, above the match? other savings? 8%?
Her: No, the 401K. I would like to but i just don't make enough
Me: you could bag your lunch or eat breakfast before you get here OR EAT THE FREE FOOD WE HAVE IN THE KITCHEN (english muffins, coffee, tea, soda, snacks, granola, etc.)
Her: I'm not going to struggle just to save a few dollars
Me: -___-

... Struggle?

We must have different interpretations of the word. Having tea and English muffins provided is lovely.

Oh no; the struggle is REAL - she would have to choose between Earl Grey, Orange Pekoe, and herbal tea. EVERY DAMNED DAY!!! How can you condemn someone to living like that!

(I just learned that I am not sure if the tea is an 'ey' grey, or an 'ay' gray. Also, what the heck is a Pekoe, and did I spell it right? Tea is confusing.)

It's grey.

Also, I'm English but don't know what you mean by English muffin...

Small flat round bread that usually gets spread open, toasted, and served with butter and jam. Kinda like a double-layered and softer crumpet. Seriously yummy. (I believe what McDonald's uses on those breakfast sandwiches, based on ad pictures, but I've never had one).

Orange pekoe is a black tea. For good-quality tea, it usually indicates leaf grade; in North America, it's kind of the standard term for generic black tea. (No oranges in it; I think it was originally named after the house of Orange. Yay history of food classes.)

I like my tea and my food. Toasted buttered english muffins and black tea count as an excellent morning.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14804 on: August 24, 2016, 08:51:10 AM »
Quote
The color is "grEy" in England (and the rest of the Commonwealth) and "grAy" in America. It's always Earl Grey, though, because that's the peerage title.

Even as an American, I typically write it as "grey" (consciously). The Hobbit had a profound effect on me. Plus, the word is just more aesthetically pleasing when written with that spelling.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14805 on: August 24, 2016, 09:16:53 AM »
Our condo building manager sends me Word doc reports where at the end of each line, she presses enter and then tabs in for the next line, so if you need to make any edits, then you have to re-do the f-ed up formatting.  She also has no idea how to use Excel, despite having had to use it for 5 years, so she prints out the spreadsheets and then complains that the typing is too small to read on paper.  I blew her mind the other day when I pointed out that the spreadsheet had two tabs of information, not just one.

Update:  Since I posted that, she sent me back a revised version of her report, as I had sent her my changes in "tracked changes."  She did not know you could "accept" the changes, so she printed out my version and spent an hour trying to type all my changes into her document, which obviously was less than accurate, not to mention inefficient.
I once asked a boss to use track changes. He didn't actually use Track Changes in the doc he sent me; he'd manually colored and underlined his additions and manually colored and struck through his deletions.

Ok, that is really funny!
Learn something new every day. I've never heard of track changes. 

I'm not even sure we do much of that at all...our schedules change almost daily.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14806 on: August 24, 2016, 09:22:29 AM »
Our condo building manager sends me Word doc reports where at the end of each line, she presses enter and then tabs in for the next line, so if you need to make any edits, then you have to re-do the f-ed up formatting.  She also has no idea how to use Excel, despite having had to use it for 5 years, so she prints out the spreadsheets and then complains that the typing is too small to read on paper.  I blew her mind the other day when I pointed out that the spreadsheet had two tabs of information, not just one.

Update:  Since I posted that, she sent me back a revised version of her report, as I had sent her my changes in "tracked changes."  She did not know you could "accept" the changes, so she printed out my version and spent an hour trying to type all my changes into her document, which obviously was less than accurate, not to mention inefficient.
I once asked a boss to use track changes. He didn't actually use Track Changes in the doc he sent me; he'd manually colored and underlined his additions and manually colored and struck through his deletions.

In my job I often dealt with the converse of this - someone wants a report or spreadsheet that summarizes a lot of information from various sources, and they want it on short notice. "Oh, by the way, I am giving a presentation to Group X, could you pull together an overview summary of Y?" 

I was so sick of this at the end, I actually said "do you know how long that will take?"
Them: "Oh, can't you just run a report?"
Me: "No, information a is in database a, information b us in database b which is not connected to a, etc. and I have to redact irrelevant records and reformat the output and add information that is not in any of the databases"
Them: "Oh" <blank stare>

These are all databases the fuckers were supposed to be using themselves, and information they were supposed to know, and they all had administrative assistants to run auto reports from the software they were supposed to know how to use anyway.

If it was 'just running a report' they should have known how to do it themselves, and even if they didn't, their admins knew how to run it. Glad I am out of there!
I just want to say PREACH IT.  When I need to review problems at work, I literally have to pull info from 3 separate and unlinked databases.  Reviewing the history on a bad device can take several hours.

The big boss "doesn't think we have a problem with our databases" (which were all home-built by two people we hired to work part time, each, one of whom who has a FT job elsewhere).  Why doesn't he think we have a problem?  Because, whenever he needs info, Jim or Bob (*not their real names) can give him a summary the next day!  Not realizing that they spent a couple of hours at night doing it.

Ugh.  We youngsters are trying to fix that.  I'm sort of joking.  The guy we put in charge of the databases to merge them is 28.  I'm 46, and I just want to be able to get my data faster.  The unfortunate thing is that I've had *some* success building queries in either sql or jmp scripts to search and merge data.  But I'm not very good at it.  I  simply have too much else to do to get better at it.  If I pull in data on one bad part, it's 4-5 hours.  Building and testing the scripts would take me longer.  And then other stuff would not get done.

Oh well we are getting there.

Inaya

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14807 on: August 24, 2016, 10:19:30 AM »
Oh, and the various errors or missing records in various databases makes life fun! There were times I had to search 3 databases just to get a complete set of relevant records. I could do this because I bothered to learn where the information was, and where the gaps in information were, and of course learned wgphat other databases had information, and how to use them. Because I cared about learning to do my job well.
Of course, the higher ups never thought this was a problem because no consequences to them, and "well, money and resources are tight". They consistently thought it was better to let all of us have to work inefficiently than to just try to fix these problems. And - the middle and higher ups wouldn't know if the report was incomplete or just wrong, because they never looked at or understood the underlying work or records, just the little summaries they wanted, no matter how inaccurate they may be.
God save the person who provided an accurate report with a trend line pointing in the opposite direction from what they wanted. The person had to have done it all wrong.
We've had tons of data quality issues we're working through and making progress on. But what bothers me is:

"Why is this status red?"
"Because it exceeds its high-risk threshold."
"But why hasn't it been fixed?"
"Because we don't have the tools to fix the problem."
"Then increase the threshold so it turns green!"

Because the risk just disappears because its line turns green on a chart.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14808 on: August 24, 2016, 10:29:07 AM »
Oh, and the various errors or missing records in various databases makes life fun! There were times I had to search 3 databases just to get a complete set of relevant records. I could do this because I bothered to learn where the information was, and where the gaps in information were, and of course learned wgphat other databases had information, and how to use them. Because I cared about learning to do my job well.
Of course, the higher ups never thought this was a problem because no consequences to them, and "well, money and resources are tight". They consistently thought it was better to let all of us have to work inefficiently than to just try to fix these problems. And - the middle and higher ups wouldn't know if the report was incomplete or just wrong, because they never looked at or understood the underlying work or records, just the little summaries they wanted, no matter how inaccurate they may be.
God save the person who provided an accurate report with a trend line pointing in the opposite direction from what they wanted. The person had to have done it all wrong.
We've had tons of data quality issues we're working through and making progress on. But what bothers me is:

"Why is this status red?"
"Because it exceeds its high-risk threshold."
"But why hasn't it been fixed?"
"Because we don't have the tools to fix the problem."
"Then increase the threshold so it turns green!"

Because the risk just disappears because its line turns green on a chart.

Reminds me of an "argument" I had with my boss. He was arguing that exposure!=risk, though they are closely corrolated. We have a process for a small percentage of our customers that is very manual and pretty risky. He is saying that since the number isn't growing, but our overall number of customers is, the risk is going down. I told him, the exposure stays the same, the chances of something happening stay the same, the risk stays the same. Sure, our risk tolerance goes up, but that risk doesn't change and we need to reflect that correctly.

He won the argument, because he is the boss--but I still disagree with it.

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14809 on: August 24, 2016, 11:17:43 AM »
Oh, and the various errors or missing records in various databases makes life fun! There were times I had to search 3 databases just to get a complete set of relevant records. I could do this because I bothered to learn where the information was, and where the gaps in information were, and of course learned wgphat other databases had information, and how to use them. Because I cared about learning to do my job well.
Of course, the higher ups never thought this was a problem because no consequences to them, and "well, money and resources are tight". They consistently thought it was better to let all of us have to work inefficiently than to just try to fix these problems. And - the middle and higher ups wouldn't know if the report was incomplete or just wrong, because they never looked at or understood the underlying work or records, just the little summaries they wanted, no matter how inaccurate they may be.
God save the person who provided an accurate report with a trend line pointing in the opposite direction from what they wanted. The person had to have done it all wrong.
We've had tons of data quality issues we're working through and making progress on. But what bothers me is:

"Why is this status red?"
"Because it exceeds its high-risk threshold."
"But why hasn't it been fixed?"
"Because we don't have the tools to fix the problem."
"Then increase the threshold so it turns green!"

Because the risk just disappears because its line turns green on a chart.

Reminds me of an "argument" I had with my boss. He was arguing that exposure!=risk, though they are closely corrolated. We have a process for a small percentage of our customers that is very manual and pretty risky. He is saying that since the number isn't growing, but our overall number of customers is, the risk is going down. I told him, the exposure stays the same, the chances of something happening stay the same, the risk stays the same. Sure, our risk tolerance goes up, but that risk doesn't change and we need to reflect that correctly.

He won the argument, because he is the boss--but I still disagree with it.

So, that works until something actually goes wrong and someone who can pound you catches it. I work somewhere that had that happen, a long time ago. It still (15+ years later) influences things, for the better.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14810 on: August 24, 2016, 12:42:06 PM »
Oh, and the various errors or missing records in various databases makes life fun! There were times I had to search 3 databases just to get a complete set of relevant records. I could do this because I bothered to learn where the information was, and where the gaps in information were, and of course learned wgphat other databases had information, and how to use them. Because I cared about learning to do my job well.
Of course, the higher ups never thought this was a problem because no consequences to them, and "well, money and resources are tight". They consistently thought it was better to let all of us have to work inefficiently than to just try to fix these problems. And - the middle and higher ups wouldn't know if the report was incomplete or just wrong, because they never looked at or understood the underlying work or records, just the little summaries they wanted, no matter how inaccurate they may be.
God save the person who provided an accurate report with a trend line pointing in the opposite direction from what they wanted. The person had to have done it all wrong.
We've had tons of data quality issues we're working through and making progress on. But what bothers me is:

"Why is this status red?"
"Because it exceeds its high-risk threshold."
"But why hasn't it been fixed?"
"Because we don't have the tools to fix the problem."
"Then increase the threshold so it turns green!"

Because the risk just disappears because its line turns green on a chart.

Reminds me of an "argument" I had with my boss. He was arguing that exposure!=risk, though they are closely corrolated. We have a process for a small percentage of our customers that is very manual and pretty risky. He is saying that since the number isn't growing, but our overall number of customers is, the risk is going down. I told him, the exposure stays the same, the chances of something happening stay the same, the risk stays the same. Sure, our risk tolerance goes up, but that risk doesn't change and we need to reflect that correctly.

He won the argument, because he is the boss--but I still disagree with it.

I'm not sure either of those terms are defined well enough but if his point is that the risk to acceptable risk ratio is going down, he's right (presumably you can accept more risk if you offset it with more profits)

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14811 on: August 24, 2016, 12:59:36 PM »
Oh, and the various errors or missing records in various databases makes life fun! There were times I had to search 3 databases just to get a complete set of relevant records. I could do this because I bothered to learn where the information was, and where the gaps in information were, and of course learned wgphat other databases had information, and how to use them. Because I cared about learning to do my job well.
Of course, the higher ups never thought this was a problem because no consequences to them, and "well, money and resources are tight". They consistently thought it was better to let all of us have to work inefficiently than to just try to fix these problems. And - the middle and higher ups wouldn't know if the report was incomplete or just wrong, because they never looked at or understood the underlying work or records, just the little summaries they wanted, no matter how inaccurate they may be.
God save the person who provided an accurate report with a trend line pointing in the opposite direction from what they wanted. The person had to have done it all wrong.
We've had tons of data quality issues we're working through and making progress on. But what bothers me is:

"Why is this status red?"
"Because it exceeds its high-risk threshold."
"But why hasn't it been fixed?"
"Because we don't have the tools to fix the problem."
"Then increase the threshold so it turns green!"

Because the risk just disappears because its line turns green on a chart.

Reminds me of an "argument" I had with my boss. He was arguing that exposure!=risk, though they are closely corrolated. We have a process for a small percentage of our customers that is very manual and pretty risky. He is saying that since the number isn't growing, but our overall number of customers is, the risk is going down. I told him, the exposure stays the same, the chances of something happening stay the same, the risk stays the same. Sure, our risk tolerance goes up, but that risk doesn't change and we need to reflect that correctly.

He won the argument, because he is the boss--but I still disagree with it.

I'm not sure either of those terms are defined well enough but if his point is that the risk to acceptable risk ratio is going down, he's right (presumably you can accept more risk if you offset it with more profits)

See, I don't disagree--but we don't have that definition in place. We should, and we're working on getting there, but until everything is rated the same way, I don't agree with rating this one thing that way.

Tjat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14812 on: August 24, 2016, 01:49:33 PM »

Reminds me of an "argument" I had with my boss. He was arguing that exposure!=risk, though they are closely corrolated. We have a process for a small percentage of our customers that is very manual and pretty risky. He is saying that since the number isn't growing, but our overall number of customers is, the risk is going down. I told him, the exposure stays the same, the chances of something happening stay the same, the risk stays the same. Sure, our risk tolerance goes up, but that risk doesn't change and we need to reflect that correctly.

He won the argument, because he is the boss--but I still disagree with it.

It sounds like you work in some form of insurance. In insurance-speak, exposure can be defined as one unit of risk. In this very narrow perspective, you are correct. However, most businesses don't judge things by one unit of risk... I also disagree that your "chances of something happening stays the same." If you have 4 policies and one has a claim, your frequency is 25%. If you increase to 10 policies and that same policy had a claim, your frequency would drop to 10%. Further, you can spread the claim costs to a larger number of policies, equating to less risk to the company's health from one claim. Hence, I think under most interpretations, your boss was correct.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14813 on: August 24, 2016, 02:40:33 PM »

Reminds me of an "argument" I had with my boss. He was arguing that exposure!=risk, though they are closely corrolated. We have a process for a small percentage of our customers that is very manual and pretty risky. He is saying that since the number isn't growing, but our overall number of customers is, the risk is going down. I told him, the exposure stays the same, the chances of something happening stay the same, the risk stays the same. Sure, our risk tolerance goes up, but that risk doesn't change and we need to reflect that correctly.

He won the argument, because he is the boss--but I still disagree with it.
Emphasis added for the sake of discussion.

What's not growing? The number of customers subject to the risky manual process, or the percentage?
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mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14814 on: August 24, 2016, 03:24:00 PM »

Reminds me of an "argument" I had with my boss. He was arguing that exposure!=risk, though they are closely corrolated. We have a process for a small percentage of our customers that is very manual and pretty risky. He is saying that since the number isn't growing, but our overall number of customers is, the risk is going down. I told him, the exposure stays the same, the chances of something happening stay the same, the risk stays the same. Sure, our risk tolerance goes up, but that risk doesn't change and we need to reflect that correctly.

He won the argument, because he is the boss--but I still disagree with it.
Emphasis added for the sake of discussion.

What's not growing? The number of customers subject to the risky manual process, or the percentage?

The number is staying the same. The percentage is decreasing.

Thing is, one event could be catastrophic. Just one is all it takes. I definitely understand both sides, but the way we have our [internal rating] processes right now the risk is not decreasing, even though we can take on more risk every day.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14815 on: August 24, 2016, 04:40:43 PM »
Does your company have reinsurance? If so, I'd bet the person setting your reinsurance rates is disagreeing with you.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14816 on: August 24, 2016, 08:13:55 PM »
had a convo with my coworker who constantly complains that her husband needs a better job ALSO orders breakfast AND lunch at work EVERYDAY
. . . Me: you could bag your lunch or eat breakfast before you get here OR EAT THE FREE FOOD WE HAVE IN THE KITCHEN (english muffins, coffee, tea, soda, snacks, granola, etc.)
Her: I'm not going to struggle just to save a few dollars
Me: -___-

... Struggle?

We must have different interpretations of the word. Having tea and English muffins provided is lovely.

. . . Also, I'm English but don't know what you mean by English muffin...

Small flat round bread that usually gets spread open, toasted, and served with butter and jam. Kinda like a double-layered and softer crumpet. Seriously yummy. (I believe what McDonald's uses on those breakfast sandwiches, based on ad pictures, but I've never had one). . . .

Don't forget the nooks and crannies!  Nooks and crannies are the most important parts of the English muffin!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17zvthaTiw4

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14817 on: August 24, 2016, 08:43:12 PM »
Talking with a couple co-workers today about changes at work. I'm at least 20 yrs younger than two coworkers that I'm talking with. 

CW1: talks about the changes and how the changes will effect certain employees we supervise who are nearing retirement.
CW 2: "I'll be retiring in about 5 yrs too" looks at me "Not like the young ones like 'BeautifulDay' who have another 30 or even 35 years till retirement"
Me: no comment. didn't know what to say since if I stay on my path I'll retire within 10 yrs.  no way I'll be here another 30-35 yrs!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14818 on: August 25, 2016, 04:39:14 AM »
Not sure if this is anti-Mustachian or shameful, but definitely comedic.

My husband's colleague called his internet provider after moving house and receiving a bill for a call-out fee.

"Why is there a call-out fee? All you did was flip a switch at your end! No-one came to my house.
You can't just bill people for no reason! I'm sick of you trying to rip me off." Etc, etc, etc.

Customer service rep agreed to refund the charge. Colleague resumed work, grumbling to himself/the office.

"I don't know how they think they can get away with it, they didn't send a tech out, the only person who has come out was some guy who looked at the phone line... Shit!"

My husband said you could see clouds part as this realisation dawned.

But hey, he got the refund...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14819 on: August 25, 2016, 05:31:02 AM »
Not sure if this is anti-Mustachian or shameful, but definitely comedic.

My husband's colleague called his internet provider after moving house and receiving a bill for a call-out fee.

"Why is there a call-out fee? All you did was flip a switch at your end! No-one came to my house.
You can't just bill people for no reason! I'm sick of you trying to rip me off." Etc, etc, etc.

Customer service rep agreed to refund the charge. Colleague resumed work, grumbling to himself/the office.

"I don't know how they think they can get away with it, they didn't send a tech out, the only person who has come out was some guy who looked at the phone line... Shit!"

My husband said you could see clouds part as this realisation dawned.

But hey, he got the refund...

thats a completely mustachian thing to do.  reduce stupid fees like that. i aplaud him .
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14820 on: August 25, 2016, 06:30:27 AM »
A company e-mail implied we should feel envious that an employee announced his retirement at age ~58...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14821 on: August 25, 2016, 07:50:51 AM »
Quote
The color is "grEy" in England (and the rest of the Commonwealth) and "grAy" in America. It's always Earl Grey, though, because that's the peerage title.

Even as an American, I typically write it as "grey" (consciously). The Hobbit had a profound effect on me. Plus, the word is just more aesthetically pleasing when written with that spelling.

Yes! I've always preferred the English spelling. Never read The Hobbit, but it just looks better.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14822 on: August 25, 2016, 09:25:51 AM »
Talking with a couple co-workers today about changes at work. I'm at least 20 yrs younger than two coworkers that I'm talking with. 

CW1: talks about the changes and how the changes will effect certain employees we supervise who are nearing retirement.
CW 2: "I'll be retiring in about 5 yrs too" looks at me "Not like the young ones like 'BeautifulDay' who have another 30 or even 35 years till retirement"
Me: no comment. didn't know what to say since if I stay on my path I'll retire within 10 yrs.  no way I'll be here another 30-35 yrs!
How about "my goal is 10... *smile*"
Just because it might blow their minds, doesn't mean you can't say it. MMM didn't set out to preach to a choir, he started this to win hearts and minds that previously had no clue you could consume less worthless shit and radically alter your life trajectory, or lacked the knowledge or willpower to do it even if they had a clue, etc... you never know for sure which one you're talking to.
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runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14823 on: August 25, 2016, 10:10:13 AM »
Talking with a couple co-workers today about changes at work. I'm at least 20 yrs younger than two coworkers that I'm talking with. 

CW1: talks about the changes and how the changes will effect certain employees we supervise who are nearing retirement.
CW 2: "I'll be retiring in about 5 yrs too" looks at me "Not like the young ones like 'BeautifulDay' who have another 30 or even 35 years till retirement"
Me: no comment. didn't know what to say since if I stay on my path I'll retire within 10 yrs.  no way I'll be here another 30-35 yrs!
How about "my goal is 10... *smile*"
Just because it might blow their minds, doesn't mean you can't say it. MMM didn't set out to preach to a choir, he started this to win hearts and minds that previously had no clue you could consume less worthless shit and radically alter your life trajectory, or lacked the knowledge or willpower to do it even if they had a clue, etc... you never know for sure which one you're talking to.
I'd be hesitant to do this 10 years out to coworkers.  I tell everyone who brings it up in my personal life, but I keep my mouth shut in my professional life unless someone I work with becomes a close friend and isn't going to gossip.  I'll "retire" whenever I feel like I'd rather do something else after FI, but at an at-will job I don't want my employers knowing that.  I do fantasize about it, though.

Sawedoff

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14824 on: August 25, 2016, 10:16:04 AM »
"Why is this status red?"
"Because it exceeds its high-risk threshold."
"But why hasn't it been fixed?"
"Because we don't have the tools to fix the problem."
"Then increase the threshold so it turns green!"

Because the risk just disappears because its line turns green on a chart.
!@#$%!!!! This is the bane of my existence.

1: Why are we red on the brief?
Me: Because we're a few issues short of being compliant. We're working on it and should be green by tomorrow.
1: Well, we need to be green, so submit this paperwork to say we're going to be green by so and so time.
Me: Pointless, but ok, paper drill done (hour later).
Reviewer: Paperwork isn't clear enough, correct this and resubmit.
Me: Resubmit.
Reviewer: Nitpicking something else, rejected.
1: Why are we not green yet?
Me: Paperwork to say why we're not green.
Leadership: We're still red!? Fix yourselves!!!
1: Resubmit the paperwork.
Me: Can I just fix the problem!?
1: No, we need paperwork to document why we're red.
Me: We're red because you're an idiot and won't let me just work on the problem.

This repeats itself every week...

canuck_24

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14825 on: August 25, 2016, 12:19:52 PM »
Talking with a couple co-workers today about changes at work. I'm at least 20 yrs younger than two coworkers that I'm talking with. 

CW1: talks about the changes and how the changes will effect certain employees we supervise who are nearing retirement.
CW 2: "I'll be retiring in about 5 yrs too" looks at me "Not like the young ones like 'BeautifulDay' who have another 30 or even 35 years till retirement"
Me: no comment. didn't know what to say since if I stay on my path I'll retire within 10 yrs.  no way I'll be here another 30-35 yrs!
How about "my goal is 10... *smile*"
Just because it might blow their minds, doesn't mean you can't say it. MMM didn't set out to preach to a choir, he started this to win hearts and minds that previously had no clue you could consume less worthless shit and radically alter your life trajectory, or lacked the knowledge or willpower to do it even if they had a clue, etc... you never know for sure which one you're talking to.

I personally don't think your employer would fault you for having life goals.  "10 years" is still quite a distance in the future, and it would seem rather unreasonable (to me) that you would lose out on training or promotions because you have a plan to retire a decade from now.  I plan to retire 8 years from now and I think I mentioned that in my first review (6 months after hiring), in response to the question "Where do you see yourself in the long term?" 
I said "Retired." 
My supervisor "Okay, well, in the next 5 - 10 years then?"
I said "5 years from now I see myself in your job. 10 years from now I'll be retired, barring any major changes in my life."

There was no averse reaction to that.  He of course had a few curiosity based questions, but that was all.  I don't see any reason to hide that.  If it was a shorter time frame (less than 5 years maybe?) then I could see potentially losing out on opportunities, but the main reaction I've had from my employer has basically been them chuckling and saying something along the lines of "A lot can change in life in 10 years!"

WerKater

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14826 on: August 25, 2016, 12:37:09 PM »
"Why is this status red?"
"Because it exceeds its high-risk threshold."
"But why hasn't it been fixed?"
"Because we don't have the tools to fix the problem."
"Then increase the threshold so it turns green!"

Because the risk just disappears because its line turns green on a chart.
!@#$%!!!! This is the bane of my existence.

1: Why are we red on the brief?
Me: Because we're a few issues short of being compliant. We're working on it and should be green by tomorrow.
1: Well, we need to be green, so submit this paperwork to say we're going to be green by so and so time.
Me: Pointless, but ok, paper drill done (hour later).
Reviewer: Paperwork isn't clear enough, correct this and resubmit.
Me: Resubmit.
Reviewer: Nitpicking something else, rejected.
1: Why are we not green yet?
Me: Paperwork to say why we're not green.
Leadership: We're still red!? Fix yourselves!!!
1: Resubmit the paperwork.
Me: Can I just fix the problem!?
1: No, we need paperwork to document why we're red.
Me: We're red because you're an idiot and won't let me just work on the problem.

This repeats itself every week...
I currently have a customer (a big company) that seems to work exactly like that. It is irrelevant whether things work, whether you do good work or whether you are not doing anything at all. The only thing that matters to them is that endless amounts of paper about all kinds of useless shit are produced. And even more useless meetings must be held in which we talk about last week's useless paper.

Inaya

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14827 on: August 25, 2016, 02:12:15 PM »
"Why is this status red?"
"Because it exceeds its high-risk threshold."
"But why hasn't it been fixed?"
"Because we don't have the tools to fix the problem."
"Then increase the threshold so it turns green!"

Because the risk just disappears because its line turns green on a chart.
!@#$%!!!! This is the bane of my existence.

1: Why are we red on the brief?
Me: Because we're a few issues short of being compliant. We're working on it and should be green by tomorrow.
1: Well, we need to be green, so submit this paperwork to say we're going to be green by so and so time.
Me: Pointless, but ok, paper drill done (hour later).
Reviewer: Paperwork isn't clear enough, correct this and resubmit.
Me: Resubmit.
Reviewer: Nitpicking something else, rejected.
1: Why are we not green yet?
Me: Paperwork to say why we're not green.
Leadership: We're still red!? Fix yourselves!!!
1: Resubmit the paperwork.
Me: Can I just fix the problem!?
1: No, we need paperwork to document why we're red.
Me: We're red because you're an idiot and won't let me just work on the problem.

This repeats itself every week...
I currently have a customer (a big company) that seems to work exactly like that. It is irrelevant whether things work, whether you do good work or whether you are not doing anything at all. The only thing that matters to them is that endless amounts of paper about all kinds of useless shit are produced. And even more useless meetings must be held in which we talk about last week's useless paper.

At the end of the meeting, does some manager whose fifedom is under represented in the project pipe up about how he is going to have another meeting next week to discuss his concerns about the project since they weren't discussed here, then walk out in a huff? Thats sortof a tradition in some places I've worked.
"Well we'll just discuss this offline. I'll call you."
Then they never call and spend the next meeting in a huff that it was never discussed with them.

My entire team exists because of a team like WerKater's customer. They spent years not doing anything other than endless committee meetings and status reports. Our team was created to basically do that team's job. We're full of Type As (minus myself; I'm good at faking it though), so we got done in 6 months what they couldn't do in 6 years. Now they're under scrutiny from way high up in the company, and of course they feel hugely threatened by us. And it looks like we might be forced to hand our work over to them to save their jobs.

I understand the reasoning, and I'm not really upset about it--everybody knows which team produced the work. But there's a fairly good chance I'll be sent over to that team to make sure they don't mess it all up moving forward--it's not gonna be pretty for so many reasons. I've already told my boss that I would strongly consider seeking new employment if I ended up on that team--he said he'd do the same in my shoes.
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PriestTheRunner

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14828 on: August 25, 2016, 02:13:53 PM »
Man I hope I'm not investing in your companies.  Sheesh.
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nanu

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14829 on: August 25, 2016, 07:57:00 PM »
Registered for a "class" today at work that was supposed to explain the details of our stock grants.
Tried listening but zoned out quite quickly as it was being explained as if we're all seven years old (and this is a large, very well known software company, right?).

The person doing the presentation kept going on on how the taxes that we pay for the stock grants aren't too bad, even though you get taxed 42% on the grant in California (FICA + federal supplemental withholding rate + CA tax) because it's just "free money" that you "weren't expecting", and I can't help but think "hell no, I worked for those stocks just like I work for my paycheck. Just because I didn't know how much exactly it'll be [because we get X stocks which vest later] doesn't make it 'free money' or any BS like that"
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WerKater

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14830 on: August 26, 2016, 01:21:27 AM »
"Well we'll just discuss this offline. I'll call you."
Then they never call and spend the next meeting in a huff that it was never discussed with them.

My entire team exists because of a team like WerKater's customer. They spent years not doing anything other than endless committee meetings and status reports. Our team was created to basically do that team's job. We're full of Type As (minus myself; I'm good at faking it though), so we got done in 6 months what they couldn't do in 6 years. Now they're under scrutiny from way high up in the company, and of course they feel hugely threatened by us. And it looks like we might be forced to hand our work over to them to save their jobs.

I understand the reasoning, and I'm not really upset about it--everybody knows which team produced the work. But there's a fairly good chance I'll be sent over to that team to make sure they don't mess it all up moving forward--it's not gonna be pretty for so many reasons. I've already told my boss that I would strongly consider seeking new employment if I ended up on that team--he said he'd do the same in my shoes.
That's an incredible story. Except, knowing what I know, I find it extremely credible. I am wondering, whether it's the same company as my customer. But probably not; the world is too big and I'm sure there are many companies that (dis-)function like that.

Fortunately, I am very rarely in physical meetings, it's usually just phone/online (advantage of sitting in another country). But I have been chewed out over
- having been on-site at one location, getting lots of work done, but not doing daily status meetings (which had never been requested) with a manager who is also in yet another country
- being unprepared for a meeting (the agenda of which had been sent to me 3 minutes before the meeting and was completely different from what was supposed to be discussed.)
- doing a small piece of work that had not been speficially approved by this one, very special, manager. Of course, I did lots of work, that he had not specifically approved. Because I am not a minimum-wage worker who needs to be told how, when and where to turn which single screw. I am a professional who (usually) knows that the fuck he is doing. I never found out why this one example pissed him off so much (or why he gave a shit at all).

And then there was the case where something was actually broken (with users screaming that they can't do their very urgent work), and I was fixing it. I knew what the problem was, and what to do. It would take about half an hour. I told the customer so (via email). Minutes later, they call me into an emergency meeting. I tried to get out of it, but they were insistent. So I spent a freaking hour discussing with them what went wrong and what I would do.

They then decided that I needed to write a proper action plan which they would approve. And then I could actually fix the problem. So I wrote the action plan and sent it to them. I had sort of expected a reply within minutes -- naive, I know. After 15 minutes, I called my counterpart and asked him when approval would be forthcoming. He would get it to me the next day(!), he said. Of course, he didn't. Suddenly, it was no longer urgent. It took a total of 10 days for the approval.  And then I fixed it in 30 minutes.

These are the moments where I dream the most of being FI already, just saying "do it yourself, then". Hanging up the phone, walking out and going home.

BeautifulDay

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14831 on: August 26, 2016, 06:01:02 AM »
Talking with a couple co-workers today about changes at work. I'm at least 20 yrs younger than two coworkers that I'm talking with. 

CW1: talks about the changes and how the changes will effect certain employees we supervise who are nearing retirement.
CW 2: "I'll be retiring in about 5 yrs too" looks at me "Not like the young ones like 'BeautifulDay' who have another 30 or even 35 years till retirement"
Me: no comment. didn't know what to say since if I stay on my path I'll retire within 10 yrs.  no way I'll be here another 30-35 yrs!
How about "my goal is 10... *smile*"
Just because it might blow their minds, doesn't mean you can't say it. MMM didn't set out to preach to a choir, he started this to win hearts and minds that previously had no clue you could consume less worthless shit and radically alter your life trajectory, or lacked the knowledge or willpower to do it even if they had a clue, etc... you never know for sure which one you're talking to.
I'd be hesitant to do this 10 years out to coworkers.  I tell everyone who brings it up in my personal life, but I keep my mouth shut in my professional life unless someone I work with becomes a close friend and isn't going to gossip.  I'll "retire" whenever I feel like I'd rather do something else after FI, but at an at-will job I don't want my employers knowing that.  I do fantasize about it, though.
Yes, I do talk to people about my goals, but there is a time and a place.  This was not that time or place.  Honestly, I do know these two well and I have a good idea of what they would think of my plan.  They LOVE their job.  Super dedicated to the organization and our 'cause.' (I work for a nonprofit) I think the cause alone would keep them at work till a normal retirement age.  Not me.  I like the cause and I'm dedicated, but I still want to FIRE.  Me wanting something different (not being willing to dedicate my whole life) would be seen as a negative thing.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 06:04:33 AM by BeautifulDay »

Sawedoff

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14832 on: August 26, 2016, 07:33:55 AM »
My entire team exists because of a team like WerKater's customer. They spent years not doing anything other than endless committee meetings and status reports. Our team was created to basically do that team's job.

No joke: My last job, I spent 15 hours per week attending meetings and gathering/updating briefings for the customer, out of an allotted 20.5 hours per week to the project.

The meetings would take so long, because they're trying to dig into the reason we're not making progress. The reason: Majority of our time is dedicated to the meetings. They never seemed to get it.

I put a year and a half into it, and in that time every position turned over at least once. At least half of them 3 times. It was insane.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14833 on: August 26, 2016, 08:10:02 AM »
Man I hope I'm not investing in your companies.  Sheesh.
Well, mine is a Fortune 500 / 100 (depending on the year) - so you probably are if you have index funds. My bet is the same is true for many here.
The level of waste and incompetence in various departments is horrifying. But overall, the Goliath lumbers on.

It's like a metaphor for the average consumer.  Your company should stop being wasteful so it can retire early.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14834 on: August 26, 2016, 08:28:57 AM »
Man I hope I'm not investing in your companies.  Sheesh.
Well, mine is a Fortune 500 / 100 (depending on the year) - so you probably are if you have index funds. My bet is the same is true for many here.
The level of waste and incompetence in various departments is horrifying. But overall, the Goliath lumbers on.
It's also pretty typical of most big companies.  As the size increases, individual decisions have a smaller impact on the company, so there's less of a feeling of accountability.  Just like a big government.

A startup, on the other hand, can see big impacts from decisions made by individuals, so a lot more care is taken there.

Metta

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14835 on: August 26, 2016, 10:05:20 AM »
My entire team exists because of a team like WerKater's customer. They spent years not doing anything other than endless committee meetings and status reports. Our team was created to basically do that team's job.

No joke: My last job, I spent 15 hours per week attending meetings and gathering/updating briefings for the customer, out of an allotted 20.5 hours per week to the project.

The meetings would take so long, because they're trying to dig into the reason we're not making progress. The reason: Majority of our time is dedicated to the meetings. They never seemed to get it.


This is my life. Yesterday I had six meetings and had to do my productive work after hours, which is sadly typical of my work week. Every time someone is not meeting deadlines, my manager assigns me to the case and instructs me to set up additional meetings to improve collaboration and performance. In most cases, they are not meeting deadlines because their time is being eaten up in meetings, so an additional meeting isn't really an effective way of dealing with this.

My latest effort to subvert this is to make this kind of meeting a 10-minute personal progress check at each person's desk. No one is happy about it, but at least I don't have a group of unproductive programmers sitting in a meeting for an additional 50 minutes. Eventually my manager will catch on to the lack of meetings and will demand a meeting to analyze why I am not holding longer meetings. (I kid you not. This happened about six months ago.)  The philosophy is that there is no problem that cannot be solved by adding meetings.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14836 on: August 26, 2016, 10:43:43 AM »
Registered for a "class" today at work that was supposed to explain the details of our stock grants.
Tried listening but zoned out quite quickly as it was being explained as if we're all seven years old (and this is a large, very well known software company, right?).

The person doing the presentation kept going on on how the taxes that we pay for the stock grants aren't too bad, even though you get taxed 42% on the grant in California (FICA + federal supplemental withholding rate + CA tax) because it's just "free money" that you "weren't expecting", and I can't help but think "hell no, I worked for those stocks just like I work for my paycheck. Just because I didn't know how much exactly it'll be [because we get X stocks which vest later] doesn't make it 'free money' or any BS like that"

Ha ha no kidding. I'm on year 8 in a startup that is about 9 years old.  It occurred to me that my stock options expire after 10 years, so...I have to start thinking about that.  Our "five year plan" and all...if we succeed, the exit point is looking like 2020.  So, unlikely that we will go public, more likely get acquired.

Anyway...occasionally an executive will mention the stock and the goal price and how great it is, and all I can think is...Okay, let's take all my stock, multiply it by our "goal price" ($3), and divide that by TWELVE YEARS, it's not fucking even equal to the amount that I am currently underpaid per year.  It's not FREE MONEY.

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14837 on: August 26, 2016, 11:11:12 AM »
I currently have a customer (a big company) that seems to work exactly like that. It is irrelevant whether things work, whether you do good work or whether you are not doing anything at all. The only thing that matters to them is that endless amounts of paper about all kinds of useless shit are produced. And even more useless meetings must be held in which we talk about last week's useless paper.
oof.  pretty sure I work there.
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14838 on: August 26, 2016, 11:41:07 AM »
Man, hearing about the endless meetings many of you have, I'm so thankful I'm not in a corporate structure.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14839 on: August 26, 2016, 12:36:24 PM »
Man, hearing about the endless meetings many of you have, I'm so thankful I'm not in a corporate structure.
Yeah, about 5 years ago I left a Fortune 5 company for a startup.  One of the biggest perks, IMO, is the lack of meetings.  I think in the 5 years I've been here, there's been just one meeting where I felt like I wasn't contributing.

druth

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14840 on: August 26, 2016, 12:49:22 PM »
I currently have a customer (a big company) that seems to work exactly like that. It is irrelevant whether things work, whether you do good work or whether you are not doing anything at all. The only thing that matters to them is that endless amounts of paper about all kinds of useless shit are produced. And even more useless meetings must be held in which we talk about last week's useless paper.
oof.  pretty sure I work there.

Hey me too!  I'm at a F500, "Meeting to plan the meeting" is a real thing here.

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14841 on: August 26, 2016, 12:51:58 PM »
I currently have a customer (a big company) that seems to work exactly like that. It is irrelevant whether things work, whether you do good work or whether you are not doing anything at all. The only thing that matters to them is that endless amounts of paper about all kinds of useless shit are produced. And even more useless meetings must be held in which we talk about last week's useless paper.
oof.  pretty sure I work there.

Hey me too!  I'm at a F500, "Meeting to plan the meeting" is a real thing here.
Don't forget the meeting to discuss how well the meeting went.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14842 on: August 26, 2016, 09:47:43 PM »

LeRainDrop

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14843 on: August 26, 2016, 11:07:06 PM »
nobodyspecial, that's a great one!  Don't forget about this, too, especially the graphics on "What Are We Doing at Work?" and "Time Spent in Meetings":  http://thecooperreview.com/the-future-of-work-5-charts/

JAYSLOL

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14844 on: August 28, 2016, 12:05:09 AM »
All this reminds me of one of our clients, a know-nothing middle-man management company, which works for another management company.  Why their clients don't work with us directly and save a ton of money instead of going through 2 middle men who essentially just forward shit to us at the last possible second is beyond my fucking comprehension.  Also with this client, it seems like every year or two there is a new person in charge of said forwarding-of-shit, because of internal politics etc.  Whenever we give them a heads up about something urgent, we usually don't hear back for usually weeks, often months, and yes, sometimes years.  At which point they are in a huge panic because their client has noticed and complained or they got in trouble somehow because major damage was done because of of neglect, at which point they try to blame us if they can.  And more than once i've gone to a job we got paid to do, only to find that it has already been completed by someone else, who also got paid for it by our client. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14845 on: August 28, 2016, 10:17:26 AM »
All this reminds me of one of our clients, a know-nothing middle-man management company, which works for another management company.  Why their clients don't work with us directly and save a ton of money instead of going through 2 middle men who essentially just forward shit to us at the last possible second is beyond my fucking comprehension.  Also with this client, it seems like every year or two there is a new person in charge of said forwarding-of-shit, because of internal politics etc.  Whenever we give them a heads up about something urgent, we usually don't hear back for usually weeks, often months, and yes, sometimes years.  At which point they are in a huge panic because their client has noticed and complained or they got in trouble somehow because major damage was done because of of neglect, at which point they try to blame us if they can.  And more than once i've gone to a job we got paid to do, only to find that it has already been completed by someone else, who also got paid for it by our client.

This is a great argument for NOT privatizing government services.  No guarantee the private company will be more efficient than the public service.  ;-)  And less oversight.

Travis

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14846 on: August 28, 2016, 10:58:05 AM »
Registered for a "class" today at work that was supposed to explain the details of our stock grants.
Tried listening but zoned out quite quickly as it was being explained as if we're all seven years old (and this is a large, very well known software company, right?).

The person doing the presentation kept going on on how the taxes that we pay for the stock grants aren't too bad, even though you get taxed 42% on the grant in California (FICA + federal supplemental withholding rate + CA tax) because it's just "free money" that you "weren't expecting", and I can't help but think "hell no, I worked for those stocks just like I work for my paycheck. Just because I didn't know how much exactly it'll be [because we get X stocks which vest later] doesn't make it 'free money' or any BS like that"

Ha ha no kidding. I'm on year 8 in a startup that is about 9 years old.  It occurred to me that my stock options expire after 10 years, so...I have to start thinking about that.  Our "five year plan" and all...if we succeed, the exit point is looking like 2020.  So, unlikely that we will go public, more likely get acquired.

Anyway...occasionally an executive will mention the stock and the goal price and how great it is, and all I can think is...Okay, let's take all my stock, multiply it by our "goal price" ($3), and divide that by TWELVE YEARS, it's not fucking even equal to the amount that I am currently underpaid per year.  It's not FREE MONEY.

If that stock is part of your compensation package, you bet your ass it is getting the same scrutiny as the paycheck.

TomTX

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14847 on: August 28, 2016, 08:27:14 PM »
But think about it - how much could we increase productivity by not including silent letters? French productivity could go up 1000%!

Brilliant!  Those bonus letters are surely just added to trip up foreigners.


Buy a tennis racquet with a coloured cheque*. :p

*not that we use cheques anymore, but I wanted to make a point, damnit.

I think I may get cheques again,due to the insanity of getting passports. Two separate checks each for 3 people. And the directions on the website are not exactly clear who the checks should be made out to. NO PLASTIC. Not even debit.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14848 on: August 28, 2016, 09:01:18 PM »
My entire team exists because of a team like WerKater's customer. They spent years not doing anything other than endless committee meetings and status reports. Our team was created to basically do that team's job.

No joke: My last job, I spent 15 hours per week attending meetings and gathering/updating briefings for the customer, out of an allotted 20.5 hours per week to the project.

The meetings would take so long, because they're trying to dig into the reason we're not making progress. The reason: Majority of our time is dedicated to the meetings. They never seemed to get it.

I put a year and a half into it, and in that time every position turned over at least once. At least half of them 3 times. It was insane.

We had a team leader (architect) who would have a 1 hour meeting every two hours...drove the team crazy because they had ZERO updates to give him, an approaching deadline,  and no time to work on anything.  It was a team of 8-10 people designing a building.    I let him go a couple of months later, it wasn't working out.... Wonder why....


Sawedoff

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14849 on: August 29, 2016, 10:04:57 AM »
My latest effort to subvert this is to make this kind of meeting a 10-minute personal progress check at each person's desk. No one is happy about it, but at least I don't have a group of unproductive programmers sitting in a meeting for an additional 50 minutes. Eventually my manager will catch on to the lack of meetings and will demand a meeting to analyze why I am not holding longer meetings. (I kid you not. This happened about six months ago.)  The philosophy is that there is no problem that cannot be solved by adding meetings.

Hah, in one of the meetings we were waiting ~ 20 minutes on one person that wasn't necessary to the meeting. About 20 people sitting around waiting, I had to pipe up "Do you guys realize how expensive this meeting is?" I got deer in the headlights looks.