Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8078770 times)

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14700 on: August 25, 2016, 06:30:27 AM »
A company e-mail implied we should feel envious that an employee announced his retirement at age ~58...

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14701 on: August 25, 2016, 07:50:51 AM »
Quote
The color is "grEy" in England (and the rest of the Commonwealth) and "grAy" in America. It's always Earl Grey, though, because that's the peerage title.

Even as an American, I typically write it as "grey" (consciously). The Hobbit had a profound effect on me. Plus, the word is just more aesthetically pleasing when written with that spelling.

Yes! I've always preferred the English spelling. Never read The Hobbit, but it just looks better.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14702 on: August 25, 2016, 09:25:51 AM »
Talking with a couple co-workers today about changes at work. I'm at least 20 yrs younger than two coworkers that I'm talking with. 

CW1: talks about the changes and how the changes will effect certain employees we supervise who are nearing retirement.
CW 2: "I'll be retiring in about 5 yrs too" looks at me "Not like the young ones like 'BeautifulDay' who have another 30 or even 35 years till retirement"
Me: no comment. didn't know what to say since if I stay on my path I'll retire within 10 yrs.  no way I'll be here another 30-35 yrs!
How about "my goal is 10... *smile*"
Just because it might blow their minds, doesn't mean you can't say it. MMM didn't set out to preach to a choir, he started this to win hearts and minds that previously had no clue you could consume less worthless shit and radically alter your life trajectory, or lacked the knowledge or willpower to do it even if they had a clue, etc... you never know for sure which one you're talking to.
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runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14703 on: August 25, 2016, 10:10:13 AM »
Talking with a couple co-workers today about changes at work. I'm at least 20 yrs younger than two coworkers that I'm talking with. 

CW1: talks about the changes and how the changes will effect certain employees we supervise who are nearing retirement.
CW 2: "I'll be retiring in about 5 yrs too" looks at me "Not like the young ones like 'BeautifulDay' who have another 30 or even 35 years till retirement"
Me: no comment. didn't know what to say since if I stay on my path I'll retire within 10 yrs.  no way I'll be here another 30-35 yrs!
How about "my goal is 10... *smile*"
Just because it might blow their minds, doesn't mean you can't say it. MMM didn't set out to preach to a choir, he started this to win hearts and minds that previously had no clue you could consume less worthless shit and radically alter your life trajectory, or lacked the knowledge or willpower to do it even if they had a clue, etc... you never know for sure which one you're talking to.
I'd be hesitant to do this 10 years out to coworkers.  I tell everyone who brings it up in my personal life, but I keep my mouth shut in my professional life unless someone I work with becomes a close friend and isn't going to gossip.  I'll "retire" whenever I feel like I'd rather do something else after FI, but at an at-will job I don't want my employers knowing that.  I do fantasize about it, though.

Sawedoff

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14704 on: August 25, 2016, 10:16:04 AM »
"Why is this status red?"
"Because it exceeds its high-risk threshold."
"But why hasn't it been fixed?"
"Because we don't have the tools to fix the problem."
"Then increase the threshold so it turns green!"

Because the risk just disappears because its line turns green on a chart.
!@#$%!!!! This is the bane of my existence.

1: Why are we red on the brief?
Me: Because we're a few issues short of being compliant. We're working on it and should be green by tomorrow.
1: Well, we need to be green, so submit this paperwork to say we're going to be green by so and so time.
Me: Pointless, but ok, paper drill done (hour later).
Reviewer: Paperwork isn't clear enough, correct this and resubmit.
Me: Resubmit.
Reviewer: Nitpicking something else, rejected.
1: Why are we not green yet?
Me: Paperwork to say why we're not green.
Leadership: We're still red!? Fix yourselves!!!
1: Resubmit the paperwork.
Me: Can I just fix the problem!?
1: No, we need paperwork to document why we're red.
Me: We're red because you're an idiot and won't let me just work on the problem.

This repeats itself every week...

canuck_24

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14705 on: August 25, 2016, 12:19:52 PM »
Talking with a couple co-workers today about changes at work. I'm at least 20 yrs younger than two coworkers that I'm talking with. 

CW1: talks about the changes and how the changes will effect certain employees we supervise who are nearing retirement.
CW 2: "I'll be retiring in about 5 yrs too" looks at me "Not like the young ones like 'BeautifulDay' who have another 30 or even 35 years till retirement"
Me: no comment. didn't know what to say since if I stay on my path I'll retire within 10 yrs.  no way I'll be here another 30-35 yrs!
How about "my goal is 10... *smile*"
Just because it might blow their minds, doesn't mean you can't say it. MMM didn't set out to preach to a choir, he started this to win hearts and minds that previously had no clue you could consume less worthless shit and radically alter your life trajectory, or lacked the knowledge or willpower to do it even if they had a clue, etc... you never know for sure which one you're talking to.

I personally don't think your employer would fault you for having life goals.  "10 years" is still quite a distance in the future, and it would seem rather unreasonable (to me) that you would lose out on training or promotions because you have a plan to retire a decade from now.  I plan to retire 8 years from now and I think I mentioned that in my first review (6 months after hiring), in response to the question "Where do you see yourself in the long term?" 
I said "Retired." 
My supervisor "Okay, well, in the next 5 - 10 years then?"
I said "5 years from now I see myself in your job. 10 years from now I'll be retired, barring any major changes in my life."

There was no averse reaction to that.  He of course had a few curiosity based questions, but that was all.  I don't see any reason to hide that.  If it was a shorter time frame (less than 5 years maybe?) then I could see potentially losing out on opportunities, but the main reaction I've had from my employer has basically been them chuckling and saying something along the lines of "A lot can change in life in 10 years!"

WerKater

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14706 on: August 25, 2016, 12:37:09 PM »
"Why is this status red?"
"Because it exceeds its high-risk threshold."
"But why hasn't it been fixed?"
"Because we don't have the tools to fix the problem."
"Then increase the threshold so it turns green!"

Because the risk just disappears because its line turns green on a chart.
!@#$%!!!! This is the bane of my existence.

1: Why are we red on the brief?
Me: Because we're a few issues short of being compliant. We're working on it and should be green by tomorrow.
1: Well, we need to be green, so submit this paperwork to say we're going to be green by so and so time.
Me: Pointless, but ok, paper drill done (hour later).
Reviewer: Paperwork isn't clear enough, correct this and resubmit.
Me: Resubmit.
Reviewer: Nitpicking something else, rejected.
1: Why are we not green yet?
Me: Paperwork to say why we're not green.
Leadership: We're still red!? Fix yourselves!!!
1: Resubmit the paperwork.
Me: Can I just fix the problem!?
1: No, we need paperwork to document why we're red.
Me: We're red because you're an idiot and won't let me just work on the problem.

This repeats itself every week...
I currently have a customer (a big company) that seems to work exactly like that. It is irrelevant whether things work, whether you do good work or whether you are not doing anything at all. The only thing that matters to them is that endless amounts of paper about all kinds of useless shit are produced. And even more useless meetings must be held in which we talk about last week's useless paper.

Inaya

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14707 on: August 25, 2016, 02:12:15 PM »
"Why is this status red?"
"Because it exceeds its high-risk threshold."
"But why hasn't it been fixed?"
"Because we don't have the tools to fix the problem."
"Then increase the threshold so it turns green!"

Because the risk just disappears because its line turns green on a chart.
!@#$%!!!! This is the bane of my existence.

1: Why are we red on the brief?
Me: Because we're a few issues short of being compliant. We're working on it and should be green by tomorrow.
1: Well, we need to be green, so submit this paperwork to say we're going to be green by so and so time.
Me: Pointless, but ok, paper drill done (hour later).
Reviewer: Paperwork isn't clear enough, correct this and resubmit.
Me: Resubmit.
Reviewer: Nitpicking something else, rejected.
1: Why are we not green yet?
Me: Paperwork to say why we're not green.
Leadership: We're still red!? Fix yourselves!!!
1: Resubmit the paperwork.
Me: Can I just fix the problem!?
1: No, we need paperwork to document why we're red.
Me: We're red because you're an idiot and won't let me just work on the problem.

This repeats itself every week...
I currently have a customer (a big company) that seems to work exactly like that. It is irrelevant whether things work, whether you do good work or whether you are not doing anything at all. The only thing that matters to them is that endless amounts of paper about all kinds of useless shit are produced. And even more useless meetings must be held in which we talk about last week's useless paper.

At the end of the meeting, does some manager whose fifedom is under represented in the project pipe up about how he is going to have another meeting next week to discuss his concerns about the project since they weren't discussed here, then walk out in a huff? Thats sortof a tradition in some places I've worked.
"Well we'll just discuss this offline. I'll call you."
Then they never call and spend the next meeting in a huff that it was never discussed with them.

My entire team exists because of a team like WerKater's customer. They spent years not doing anything other than endless committee meetings and status reports. Our team was created to basically do that team's job. We're full of Type As (minus myself; I'm good at faking it though), so we got done in 6 months what they couldn't do in 6 years. Now they're under scrutiny from way high up in the company, and of course they feel hugely threatened by us. And it looks like we might be forced to hand our work over to them to save their jobs.

I understand the reasoning, and I'm not really upset about it--everybody knows which team produced the work. But there's a fairly good chance I'll be sent over to that team to make sure they don't mess it all up moving forward--it's not gonna be pretty for so many reasons. I've already told my boss that I would strongly consider seeking new employment if I ended up on that team--he said he'd do the same in my shoes.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14708 on: August 25, 2016, 02:13:53 PM »
Man I hope I'm not investing in your companies.  Sheesh.
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nanu

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14709 on: August 25, 2016, 07:57:00 PM »
Registered for a "class" today at work that was supposed to explain the details of our stock grants.
Tried listening but zoned out quite quickly as it was being explained as if we're all seven years old (and this is a large, very well known software company, right?).

The person doing the presentation kept going on on how the taxes that we pay for the stock grants aren't too bad, even though you get taxed 42% on the grant in California (FICA + federal supplemental withholding rate + CA tax) because it's just "free money" that you "weren't expecting", and I can't help but think "hell no, I worked for those stocks just like I work for my paycheck. Just because I didn't know how much exactly it'll be [because we get X stocks which vest later] doesn't make it 'free money' or any BS like that"
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WerKater

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14710 on: August 26, 2016, 01:21:27 AM »
"Well we'll just discuss this offline. I'll call you."
Then they never call and spend the next meeting in a huff that it was never discussed with them.

My entire team exists because of a team like WerKater's customer. They spent years not doing anything other than endless committee meetings and status reports. Our team was created to basically do that team's job. We're full of Type As (minus myself; I'm good at faking it though), so we got done in 6 months what they couldn't do in 6 years. Now they're under scrutiny from way high up in the company, and of course they feel hugely threatened by us. And it looks like we might be forced to hand our work over to them to save their jobs.

I understand the reasoning, and I'm not really upset about it--everybody knows which team produced the work. But there's a fairly good chance I'll be sent over to that team to make sure they don't mess it all up moving forward--it's not gonna be pretty for so many reasons. I've already told my boss that I would strongly consider seeking new employment if I ended up on that team--he said he'd do the same in my shoes.
That's an incredible story. Except, knowing what I know, I find it extremely credible. I am wondering, whether it's the same company as my customer. But probably not; the world is too big and I'm sure there are many companies that (dis-)function like that.

Fortunately, I am very rarely in physical meetings, it's usually just phone/online (advantage of sitting in another country). But I have been chewed out over
- having been on-site at one location, getting lots of work done, but not doing daily status meetings (which had never been requested) with a manager who is also in yet another country
- being unprepared for a meeting (the agenda of which had been sent to me 3 minutes before the meeting and was completely different from what was supposed to be discussed.)
- doing a small piece of work that had not been speficially approved by this one, very special, manager. Of course, I did lots of work, that he had not specifically approved. Because I am not a minimum-wage worker who needs to be told how, when and where to turn which single screw. I am a professional who (usually) knows that the fuck he is doing. I never found out why this one example pissed him off so much (or why he gave a shit at all).

And then there was the case where something was actually broken (with users screaming that they can't do their very urgent work), and I was fixing it. I knew what the problem was, and what to do. It would take about half an hour. I told the customer so (via email). Minutes later, they call me into an emergency meeting. I tried to get out of it, but they were insistent. So I spent a freaking hour discussing with them what went wrong and what I would do.

They then decided that I needed to write a proper action plan which they would approve. And then I could actually fix the problem. So I wrote the action plan and sent it to them. I had sort of expected a reply within minutes -- naive, I know. After 15 minutes, I called my counterpart and asked him when approval would be forthcoming. He would get it to me the next day(!), he said. Of course, he didn't. Suddenly, it was no longer urgent. It took a total of 10 days for the approval.  And then I fixed it in 30 minutes.

These are the moments where I dream the most of being FI already, just saying "do it yourself, then". Hanging up the phone, walking out and going home.

BeautifulDay

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14711 on: August 26, 2016, 06:01:02 AM »
Talking with a couple co-workers today about changes at work. I'm at least 20 yrs younger than two coworkers that I'm talking with. 

CW1: talks about the changes and how the changes will effect certain employees we supervise who are nearing retirement.
CW 2: "I'll be retiring in about 5 yrs too" looks at me "Not like the young ones like 'BeautifulDay' who have another 30 or even 35 years till retirement"
Me: no comment. didn't know what to say since if I stay on my path I'll retire within 10 yrs.  no way I'll be here another 30-35 yrs!
How about "my goal is 10... *smile*"
Just because it might blow their minds, doesn't mean you can't say it. MMM didn't set out to preach to a choir, he started this to win hearts and minds that previously had no clue you could consume less worthless shit and radically alter your life trajectory, or lacked the knowledge or willpower to do it even if they had a clue, etc... you never know for sure which one you're talking to.
I'd be hesitant to do this 10 years out to coworkers.  I tell everyone who brings it up in my personal life, but I keep my mouth shut in my professional life unless someone I work with becomes a close friend and isn't going to gossip.  I'll "retire" whenever I feel like I'd rather do something else after FI, but at an at-will job I don't want my employers knowing that.  I do fantasize about it, though.
Yes, I do talk to people about my goals, but there is a time and a place.  This was not that time or place.  Honestly, I do know these two well and I have a good idea of what they would think of my plan.  They LOVE their job.  Super dedicated to the organization and our 'cause.' (I work for a nonprofit) I think the cause alone would keep them at work till a normal retirement age.  Not me.  I like the cause and I'm dedicated, but I still want to FIRE.  Me wanting something different (not being willing to dedicate my whole life) would be seen as a negative thing.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 06:04:33 AM by BeautifulDay »

Sawedoff

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14712 on: August 26, 2016, 07:33:55 AM »
My entire team exists because of a team like WerKater's customer. They spent years not doing anything other than endless committee meetings and status reports. Our team was created to basically do that team's job.

No joke: My last job, I spent 15 hours per week attending meetings and gathering/updating briefings for the customer, out of an allotted 20.5 hours per week to the project.

The meetings would take so long, because they're trying to dig into the reason we're not making progress. The reason: Majority of our time is dedicated to the meetings. They never seemed to get it.

I put a year and a half into it, and in that time every position turned over at least once. At least half of them 3 times. It was insane.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14713 on: August 26, 2016, 08:10:02 AM »
Man I hope I'm not investing in your companies.  Sheesh.
Well, mine is a Fortune 500 / 100 (depending on the year) - so you probably are if you have index funds. My bet is the same is true for many here.
The level of waste and incompetence in various departments is horrifying. But overall, the Goliath lumbers on.

It's like a metaphor for the average consumer.  Your company should stop being wasteful so it can retire early.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14714 on: August 26, 2016, 08:28:57 AM »
Man I hope I'm not investing in your companies.  Sheesh.
Well, mine is a Fortune 500 / 100 (depending on the year) - so you probably are if you have index funds. My bet is the same is true for many here.
The level of waste and incompetence in various departments is horrifying. But overall, the Goliath lumbers on.
It's also pretty typical of most big companies.  As the size increases, individual decisions have a smaller impact on the company, so there's less of a feeling of accountability.  Just like a big government.

A startup, on the other hand, can see big impacts from decisions made by individuals, so a lot more care is taken there.

Metta

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14715 on: August 26, 2016, 10:05:20 AM »
My entire team exists because of a team like WerKater's customer. They spent years not doing anything other than endless committee meetings and status reports. Our team was created to basically do that team's job.

No joke: My last job, I spent 15 hours per week attending meetings and gathering/updating briefings for the customer, out of an allotted 20.5 hours per week to the project.

The meetings would take so long, because they're trying to dig into the reason we're not making progress. The reason: Majority of our time is dedicated to the meetings. They never seemed to get it.


This is my life. Yesterday I had six meetings and had to do my productive work after hours, which is sadly typical of my work week. Every time someone is not meeting deadlines, my manager assigns me to the case and instructs me to set up additional meetings to improve collaboration and performance. In most cases, they are not meeting deadlines because their time is being eaten up in meetings, so an additional meeting isn't really an effective way of dealing with this.

My latest effort to subvert this is to make this kind of meeting a 10-minute personal progress check at each person's desk. No one is happy about it, but at least I don't have a group of unproductive programmers sitting in a meeting for an additional 50 minutes. Eventually my manager will catch on to the lack of meetings and will demand a meeting to analyze why I am not holding longer meetings. (I kid you not. This happened about six months ago.)  The philosophy is that there is no problem that cannot be solved by adding meetings.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14716 on: August 26, 2016, 10:43:43 AM »
Registered for a "class" today at work that was supposed to explain the details of our stock grants.
Tried listening but zoned out quite quickly as it was being explained as if we're all seven years old (and this is a large, very well known software company, right?).

The person doing the presentation kept going on on how the taxes that we pay for the stock grants aren't too bad, even though you get taxed 42% on the grant in California (FICA + federal supplemental withholding rate + CA tax) because it's just "free money" that you "weren't expecting", and I can't help but think "hell no, I worked for those stocks just like I work for my paycheck. Just because I didn't know how much exactly it'll be [because we get X stocks which vest later] doesn't make it 'free money' or any BS like that"

Ha ha no kidding. I'm on year 8 in a startup that is about 9 years old.  It occurred to me that my stock options expire after 10 years, so...I have to start thinking about that.  Our "five year plan" and all...if we succeed, the exit point is looking like 2020.  So, unlikely that we will go public, more likely get acquired.

Anyway...occasionally an executive will mention the stock and the goal price and how great it is, and all I can think is...Okay, let's take all my stock, multiply it by our "goal price" ($3), and divide that by TWELVE YEARS, it's not fucking even equal to the amount that I am currently underpaid per year.  It's not FREE MONEY.

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14717 on: August 26, 2016, 11:11:12 AM »
I currently have a customer (a big company) that seems to work exactly like that. It is irrelevant whether things work, whether you do good work or whether you are not doing anything at all. The only thing that matters to them is that endless amounts of paper about all kinds of useless shit are produced. And even more useless meetings must be held in which we talk about last week's useless paper.
oof.  pretty sure I work there.
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14718 on: August 26, 2016, 11:41:07 AM »
Man, hearing about the endless meetings many of you have, I'm so thankful I'm not in a corporate structure.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14719 on: August 26, 2016, 12:36:24 PM »
Man, hearing about the endless meetings many of you have, I'm so thankful I'm not in a corporate structure.
Yeah, about 5 years ago I left a Fortune 5 company for a startup.  One of the biggest perks, IMO, is the lack of meetings.  I think in the 5 years I've been here, there's been just one meeting where I felt like I wasn't contributing.

druth

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14720 on: August 26, 2016, 12:49:22 PM »
I currently have a customer (a big company) that seems to work exactly like that. It is irrelevant whether things work, whether you do good work or whether you are not doing anything at all. The only thing that matters to them is that endless amounts of paper about all kinds of useless shit are produced. And even more useless meetings must be held in which we talk about last week's useless paper.
oof.  pretty sure I work there.

Hey me too!  I'm at a F500, "Meeting to plan the meeting" is a real thing here.

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14721 on: August 26, 2016, 12:51:58 PM »
I currently have a customer (a big company) that seems to work exactly like that. It is irrelevant whether things work, whether you do good work or whether you are not doing anything at all. The only thing that matters to them is that endless amounts of paper about all kinds of useless shit are produced. And even more useless meetings must be held in which we talk about last week's useless paper.
oof.  pretty sure I work there.

Hey me too!  I'm at a F500, "Meeting to plan the meeting" is a real thing here.
Don't forget the meeting to discuss how well the meeting went.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14722 on: August 26, 2016, 09:47:43 PM »

LeRainDrop

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14723 on: August 26, 2016, 11:07:06 PM »
nobodyspecial, that's a great one!  Don't forget about this, too, especially the graphics on "What Are We Doing at Work?" and "Time Spent in Meetings":  http://thecooperreview.com/the-future-of-work-5-charts/

JAYSLOL

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14724 on: August 28, 2016, 12:05:09 AM »
All this reminds me of one of our clients, a know-nothing middle-man management company, which works for another management company.  Why their clients don't work with us directly and save a ton of money instead of going through 2 middle men who essentially just forward shit to us at the last possible second is beyond my fucking comprehension.  Also with this client, it seems like every year or two there is a new person in charge of said forwarding-of-shit, because of internal politics etc.  Whenever we give them a heads up about something urgent, we usually don't hear back for usually weeks, often months, and yes, sometimes years.  At which point they are in a huge panic because their client has noticed and complained or they got in trouble somehow because major damage was done because of of neglect, at which point they try to blame us if they can.  And more than once i've gone to a job we got paid to do, only to find that it has already been completed by someone else, who also got paid for it by our client. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14725 on: August 28, 2016, 10:17:26 AM »
All this reminds me of one of our clients, a know-nothing middle-man management company, which works for another management company.  Why their clients don't work with us directly and save a ton of money instead of going through 2 middle men who essentially just forward shit to us at the last possible second is beyond my fucking comprehension.  Also with this client, it seems like every year or two there is a new person in charge of said forwarding-of-shit, because of internal politics etc.  Whenever we give them a heads up about something urgent, we usually don't hear back for usually weeks, often months, and yes, sometimes years.  At which point they are in a huge panic because their client has noticed and complained or they got in trouble somehow because major damage was done because of of neglect, at which point they try to blame us if they can.  And more than once i've gone to a job we got paid to do, only to find that it has already been completed by someone else, who also got paid for it by our client.

This is a great argument for NOT privatizing government services.  No guarantee the private company will be more efficient than the public service.  ;-)  And less oversight.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14726 on: August 28, 2016, 10:58:05 AM »
Registered for a "class" today at work that was supposed to explain the details of our stock grants.
Tried listening but zoned out quite quickly as it was being explained as if we're all seven years old (and this is a large, very well known software company, right?).

The person doing the presentation kept going on on how the taxes that we pay for the stock grants aren't too bad, even though you get taxed 42% on the grant in California (FICA + federal supplemental withholding rate + CA tax) because it's just "free money" that you "weren't expecting", and I can't help but think "hell no, I worked for those stocks just like I work for my paycheck. Just because I didn't know how much exactly it'll be [because we get X stocks which vest later] doesn't make it 'free money' or any BS like that"

Ha ha no kidding. I'm on year 8 in a startup that is about 9 years old.  It occurred to me that my stock options expire after 10 years, so...I have to start thinking about that.  Our "five year plan" and all...if we succeed, the exit point is looking like 2020.  So, unlikely that we will go public, more likely get acquired.

Anyway...occasionally an executive will mention the stock and the goal price and how great it is, and all I can think is...Okay, let's take all my stock, multiply it by our "goal price" ($3), and divide that by TWELVE YEARS, it's not fucking even equal to the amount that I am currently underpaid per year.  It's not FREE MONEY.

If that stock is part of your compensation package, you bet your ass it is getting the same scrutiny as the paycheck.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14727 on: August 28, 2016, 08:27:14 PM »
But think about it - how much could we increase productivity by not including silent letters? French productivity could go up 1000%!

Brilliant!  Those bonus letters are surely just added to trip up foreigners.


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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14728 on: August 28, 2016, 09:01:18 PM »
My entire team exists because of a team like WerKater's customer. They spent years not doing anything other than endless committee meetings and status reports. Our team was created to basically do that team's job.

No joke: My last job, I spent 15 hours per week attending meetings and gathering/updating briefings for the customer, out of an allotted 20.5 hours per week to the project.

The meetings would take so long, because they're trying to dig into the reason we're not making progress. The reason: Majority of our time is dedicated to the meetings. They never seemed to get it.

I put a year and a half into it, and in that time every position turned over at least once. At least half of them 3 times. It was insane.

We had a team leader (architect) who would have a 1 hour meeting every two hours...drove the team crazy because they had ZERO updates to give him, an approaching deadline,  and no time to work on anything.  It was a team of 8-10 people designing a building.    I let him go a couple of months later, it wasn't working out.... Wonder why....


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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14729 on: August 29, 2016, 10:04:57 AM »
My latest effort to subvert this is to make this kind of meeting a 10-minute personal progress check at each person's desk. No one is happy about it, but at least I don't have a group of unproductive programmers sitting in a meeting for an additional 50 minutes. Eventually my manager will catch on to the lack of meetings and will demand a meeting to analyze why I am not holding longer meetings. (I kid you not. This happened about six months ago.)  The philosophy is that there is no problem that cannot be solved by adding meetings.

Hah, in one of the meetings we were waiting ~ 20 minutes on one person that wasn't necessary to the meeting. About 20 people sitting around waiting, I had to pipe up "Do you guys realize how expensive this meeting is?" I got deer in the headlights looks.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14730 on: August 29, 2016, 10:10:13 AM »
My latest effort to subvert this is to make this kind of meeting a 10-minute personal progress check at each person's desk. No one is happy about it, but at least I don't have a group of unproductive programmers sitting in a meeting for an additional 50 minutes. Eventually my manager will catch on to the lack of meetings and will demand a meeting to analyze why I am not holding longer meetings. (I kid you not. This happened about six months ago.)  The philosophy is that there is no problem that cannot be solved by adding meetings.

Hah, in one of the meetings we were waiting ~ 20 minutes on one person that wasn't necessary to the meeting. About 20 people sitting around waiting, I had to pipe up "Do you guys realize how expensive this meeting is?" I got deer in the headlights looks.
Well, you need approval to buy a $100 computer monitor, but anyone can schedule a meeting costing the company thousands in man-hours.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14731 on: August 29, 2016, 10:33:05 AM »
Only meet in rooms with no possibility to sit down.
The meetings will be short and people will actually think if they need a meeting.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14732 on: August 29, 2016, 10:42:21 AM »
Only meet in rooms with no possibility to sit down.
The meetings will be short and people will actually think if they need a meeting.

Yup agreed! I remember reading about a General that would have stand-only meetings because he felt like it was efficient and made things end promptly. I like this idea.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14733 on: August 29, 2016, 10:46:37 AM »
All this reminds me of one of our clients, a know-nothing middle-man management company, which works for another management company.  Why their clients don't work with us directly and save a ton of money instead of going through 2 middle men who essentially just forward shit to us at the last possible second is beyond my fucking comprehension.  Also with this client, it seems like every year or two there is a new person in charge of said forwarding-of-shit, because of internal politics etc.  Whenever we give them a heads up about something urgent, we usually don't hear back for usually weeks, often months, and yes, sometimes years.  At which point they are in a huge panic because their client has noticed and complained or they got in trouble somehow because major damage was done because of of neglect, at which point they try to blame us if they can.  And more than once i've gone to a job we got paid to do, only to find that it has already been completed by someone else, who also got paid for it by our client.

This is a great argument for NOT privatizing government services.  No guarantee the private company will be more efficient than the public service.  ;-)  And less oversight.

I suspect this is tongue-in-cheek, but the trouble with that theory is the government just outsources to private companies. So then you just have another level of bureaucracy. I used to work for Northrop Grumman, and holy h*ll was that was a nightmare. All the normal giant company BS, with weekly meetings with state officials thrown in the mix for good measure. It's amazing anything ever gets done.   

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14734 on: August 29, 2016, 10:47:43 AM »
Only meet in rooms with no possibility to sit down.
The meetings will be short and people will actually think if they need a meeting.

I stood in every meeting, for the duration. It took months before people stopped asking me if I wanted a chair.

Well, you need approval to buy a $100 computer monitor, but anyone can schedule a meeting costing the company thousands in man-hours.

Or the best was them freaking out about a 15 minute charge not being correct, when 20 people wasted that all at once...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14735 on: August 29, 2016, 04:49:09 PM »
Not technically overheard.

Company switched to empower retirement to do our 401k interface. (Still backed by schwab, I believe.)

They have a nifty estimator of contributions, retirement age, and estimated income (my contributions, employer match, and social security.)

The retirement age slider doesn't go below 50. Bah!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14736 on: August 29, 2016, 06:15:10 PM »
All this reminds me of one of our clients, a know-nothing middle-man management company, which works for another management company.  Why their clients don't work with us directly and save a ton of money instead of going through 2 middle men who essentially just forward shit to us at the last possible second is beyond my fucking comprehension.  Also with this client, it seems like every year or two there is a new person in charge of said forwarding-of-shit, because of internal politics etc.  Whenever we give them a heads up about something urgent, we usually don't hear back for usually weeks, often months, and yes, sometimes years.  At which point they are in a huge panic because their client has noticed and complained or they got in trouble somehow because major damage was done because of of neglect, at which point they try to blame us if they can.  And more than once i've gone to a job we got paid to do, only to find that it has already been completed by someone else, who also got paid for it by our client.

We should all be happy so little gets done with our tax dollars.

Otherwise we would actually get ALL the government we pay for, God help us all.

This is a great argument for NOT privatizing government services.  No guarantee the private company will be more efficient than the public service.  ;-)  And less oversight.

I suspect this is tongue-in-cheek, but the trouble with that theory is the government just outsources to private companies. So then you just have another level of bureaucracy. I used to work for Northrop Grumman, and holy h*ll was that was a nightmare. All the normal giant company BS, with weekly meetings with state officials thrown in the mix for good measure. It's amazing anything ever gets done.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14737 on: August 30, 2016, 10:04:07 AM »
Depending on the type of guys he hangs out with, a trailered car might be looked down upon. Some guys put alot of emphasis on driving their cars rather than only showing their car (moved by trailer).

All the nuances found in any cultural group.

Trailering a car (or multiple cars) takes a very stout truck and trailer to do safely and it uses more gas than just driving the car alone.

I suspect that this guy has more financial problems than fuel economy.

A muscle car might get 10 mpg. The fuel for a show trip might cost him $150. That's 750 miles of driving. It might be that he's staying in hotels, eating out for the whole weekend and partying.

There are the folks that go to car shows, walk around and see the cars on the cheap. Then there are those people who go and treat the event like a Mardi Gra celebration - first the show, then the cruising, then dinner and drinks and then all night parties.

Another angle is that he might be one of the endless upgraders. Just like electronics - some car folks are constantly revising their vehicle. New wheels or shiny bits. He might be wearing out whole sets of tires in a weekend if he is the type to show off with stunts.

We tend to attend shows we can drive to and return home from in a day. I don't have a car to put in a show. We keep the trip cheap and eat cheap or picnic. As I get older I'm less impressed with a shiny show car and more impressed with meeting interesting people and seeing cars that get used.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 03:12:55 PM by Joe Lucky »

kayvent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14738 on: August 30, 2016, 10:35:44 AM »
All this reminds me of one of our clients, a know-nothing middle-man management company, which works for another management company.  Why their clients don't work with us directly and save a ton of money instead of going through 2 middle men who essentially just forward shit to us at the last possible second is beyond my fucking comprehension.  Also with this client, it seems like every year or two there is a new person in charge of said forwarding-of-shit, because of internal politics etc.  Whenever we give them a heads up about something urgent, we usually don't hear back for usually weeks, often months, and yes, sometimes years.  At which point they are in a huge panic because their client has noticed and complained or they got in trouble somehow because major damage was done because of of neglect, at which point they try to blame us if they can.  And more than once i've gone to a job we got paid to do, only to find that it has already been completed by someone else, who also got paid for it by our client.

This is a great argument for NOT privatizing government services.  No guarantee the private company will be more efficient than the public service.  ;-)  And less oversight.

In capitalism's defence, those types of companies _eventually_ die out or investors' or owners want to eventually increase efficiency to raise margins.

Only meet in rooms with no possibility to sit down.
The meetings will be short and people will actually think if they need a meeting.

In the Agile Software Development model there is a type of meeting called a stand-up with that exact purpose: get the meeting over quickly.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14739 on: August 30, 2016, 10:38:48 AM »

Only meet in rooms with no possibility to sit down.
The meetings will be short and people will actually think if they need a meeting.

In the Agile Software Development model there is a type of meeting called a stand-up with that exact purpose: get the meeting over quickly.
[/quote]

Yeah, my ex-boss was a software dude who thought that getting all the sales people and project managers for a stand-up meeting every morning to talk about what everyone was doing would be a GREAT idea. Note that NONE of our work actually overlapped on a regular basis. Typically took 45 minutes, no chairs permitted, PERIOD. Great when 8 months pregnant, standing on super-sore hips and knees for 45 minutes of colleagues droning on about disparate stuff... Not that I'm still annoyed or anything.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14740 on: August 30, 2016, 11:00:03 AM »

Only meet in rooms with no possibility to sit down.
The meetings will be short and people will actually think if they need a meeting.

In the Agile Software Development model there is a type of meeting called a stand-up with that exact purpose: get the meeting over quickly.

Yeah, my ex-boss was a software dude who thought that getting all the sales people and project managers for a stand-up meeting every morning to talk about what everyone was doing would be a GREAT idea. Note that NONE of our work actually overlapped on a regular basis. Typically took 45 minutes, no chairs permitted, PERIOD. Great when 8 months pregnant, standing on super-sore hips and knees for 45 minutes of colleagues droning on about disparate stuff... Not that I'm still annoyed or anything.
[/quote]


(I'm a dude)

That would have put me over the edge. I'd have brought a chair in and sat down, and if I got any feedback about it I'd tell them I'm going home sick.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14741 on: August 30, 2016, 01:19:37 PM »
Heard from the wife, through his wife: **(counts because I used to work with him?)

She's freaking out because she can't get her hair dyed because he is buying a new motorcycle to celebrate getting out of the military. Just got out of the military, moving to California with no jobs lined up, and the kicker: $60k in debt.

I really thought they had it all together, but apparently not....

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14742 on: August 30, 2016, 01:28:24 PM »
Just overheard him on the phone - apparently since he bought the country place, he can't afford to drive the cars to the car shows. because it puts too much mileage on them, and they burn so much gas he's going through $400 a week just to show his cars. Dunno why he can't tow them on a flatbed.

Maybe you should suggest to him that he buy a flatbed?  ;-)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14743 on: August 30, 2016, 02:09:46 PM »
Heard from the wife, through his wife: **(counts because I used to work with him?)

She's freaking out because she can't get her hair dyed because he is buying a new motorcycle to celebrate getting out of the military. Just got out of the military, moving to California with no jobs lined up, and the kicker: $60k in debt.

I really thought they had it all together, but apparently not....

Getting out, or retiring from?  If it's retiring from, he's got a guaranteed income of $35-40k+ coming to him for life, so it's not like he's setting out for the great unknown with nothing.  Motorcycle though, no idea if that's dumb or not. 
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johnny847

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14744 on: August 30, 2016, 07:17:21 PM »
On the subject of not being able to get work done....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XD2kNopsUs

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14745 on: August 31, 2016, 12:28:08 PM »
The office administrative assistant has been quietly taking every one of us into the conference room for 5 minutes since lunch. When it was my turn, I was obviously curious. Turns out, she was informing us individually that since we're changing pay-processing companies, there was going to be a slight change in that our 2-week pay cycle would be delayed by one week (currently we're paid in advance, so now we'll become like normal companies).

She wanted to let us all know in person about the change, and privately, to make sure that I could "plan accordingly" and that if there are any issues or I need an advance for the week, she can take care of it.

+1 on the discretion and care that she takes, I think that's wonderful.
But it makes me sad to know that this might cause issues for some coworkers.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14746 on: August 31, 2016, 01:08:34 PM »
The office administrative assistant has been quietly taking every one of us into the conference room for 5 minutes since lunch. When it was my turn, I was obviously curious. Turns out, she was informing us individually that since we're changing pay-processing companies, there was going to be a slight change in that our 2-week pay cycle would be delayed by one week (currently we're paid in advance, so now we'll become like normal companies).

She wanted to let us all know in person about the change, and privately, to make sure that I could "plan accordingly" and that if there are any issues or I need an advance for the week, she can take care of it.

+1 on the discretion and care that she takes, I think that's wonderful.
But it makes me sad to know that this might cause issues for some coworkers.

Well, right now, that'd be an issue for us - we're finalizing debt repayments (20K in a year, woot!) and have money directly sent into savings on payday (preparing for an upcoming maternity leave), so yeah, it'd affect things, and we'd definitely need to know or payments would bounce. (That said, the solution would be 'transfer some money out of savings to cover the payments coming out, put it back on on payday a week later, re-calibrate automatic savings withdrawals", not "ask company for an advance", but...)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14747 on: August 31, 2016, 01:15:06 PM »
I was talking to someone that is in their late 30's about their 401k... They have been contributing for about 15 years but don't trust the stock market so the entire amount has gone directly to the "cash value" fund.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14748 on: August 31, 2016, 01:59:04 PM »
I was talking to someone that is in their late 30's about their 401k... They have been contributing for about 15 years but don't trust the stock market so the entire amount has gone directly to the "cash value" fund.

I calculated a $5,000 deposit each year in the S&P 500.
14 deposits =$70,000 with S&P growth = $136,000
 It's a little more than that but calculator only went to 2015.
Sad to miss out on that.
  I have a retired friend that did day trading for a while. He never said, but I think he lost a lot of money.
Now he says the stock market is rigged and will not put any money in it.
Several of his friends have tried to change his mind, but he has $400,000 to $500,000 in cash.
He could have $1,000,000.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #14749 on: August 31, 2016, 02:43:48 PM »
I was talking to someone that is in their late 30's about their 401k... They have been contributing for about 15 years but don't trust the stock market so the entire amount has gone directly to the "cash value" fund.

I calculated a $5,000 deposit each year in the S&P 500.
14 deposits =$70,000 with S&P growth = $136,000
 It's a little more than that but calculator only went to 2015.
Sad to miss out on that.
  I have a retired friend that did day trading for a while. He never said, but I think he lost a lot of money.
Now he says the stock market is rigged and will not put any money in it.
Several of his friends have tried to change his mind, but he has $400,000 to $500,000 in cash.
He could have $1,000,000.

I know someone who has a ton of cash but also doesn't invest because he used to be a day trader. While he would get greater returns using index funds, he is scared that he would try to day trade and so is instead happier to leave the money in the bank.