Overheard at Work

[shelivesthedream]

It's funny because I come from a rich upbringing with all that stuff - fancy school, new cars, huge house, etc. etc (all the money was lost when I was 13 or so). Facebook assures me that the majority of people who shared this sort of "right" upbringing with me are completely basic and in no way amazing. Many of them seem completely stupid and most are broke (or deeply in debt I assume from the disconnect in their lifestyle purchases and their occupations). So I'm not sure what the "right" sort of upbringing did for them.

This. I went to a fancy private school. The distribution of basic to amazing was pretty much the same as everywhere else in life. Sure, paying £10k a year plus means if your child is a bit thick they'll be hauled up to get mostly As instead of mostly Bs, but if you just ignore them outside school they'll still be a bit thick when they leave. It's a guilt complex for the parents, it's not for the children. You work too much to see/care about your children so you send them to an expensive school "for the children's benefit" so you work more to afford the school so you see them less. Then you wonder why they grow up with mental health problems. The case for a good half of my fellow pupils.

The "bit thick" kid left to the mercies of half of the UK state school system will be struggling to get 5 A to C GSCEs at 16 and 3 A level equivalents at any grade.  That's the real difference that privilege makes, not whether its As or Bs at A level.

Although the difference is more probably that your fancy private school filtered out the "bit thick" kids before they even got there.

The people I am describing (perhaps rather unkindly) are the people who really WOULD have got all Bs, but Mummy and Daddy wanted better for them. The children who are in the top 10% but not the top 1%. So they pay enough over the course of 18 years that they could have bought the child a house at 18 instead, or given them an investment account that would compound to fully support a traditional retirement.

The school hand-holds them up one level of attainment, maybe thy have tutors as well to hand-hold them further, it hand-holds them into a Russell Group university (because God forbid your child would do better at something that isn't a degree) - and then everyone lets go at once and the child is left much further out than they would have swum by themselves trying not to drown.

These are the children who would have done just fine because their parents are wealthy, well-educated and value achievement. The parents would be well able to help them with their homework or to develop a good career plan, but they would rather outsource it. So the parents choose to pay someone else to be involved with their children's lives instead, and are then surprised when they find out their children are anorexic or taking drugs. It is not a healthy way to parent your child and I do not think it offers value for money.

I know it's all "first world problems", you have too much money and little Timmy is sad that Mummy is too busy to play with him, but it fucks people up and is so unnecessary. But the parents believe they're doing it "for the kids", either because they're deluded or because they feel guilty.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

Where I grew up, in Texas, private schools had a reputation for restricting where seniors could apply to college. You don't get to apply to the Ivies if you're not in the top few kids.

Texas also has a rule, or at least did, that if you're in the top ten percent of your graduating class, you automatically get into one of the flagship state universities, which are legitimately good schools. There's good and bad aspects to this, but it means that if you go to a "good" high school and don't make it into the top 10%, there's no room for you at UT-Austin or Texas A&M. So people spend bazillions to send their kid to a fancy private school, and then they get their college degree from UT-El Paso or similar.

(Nothing wrong with UTEP! But it's obviously not what those parents were after.)

[Linda_Norway]

Today I told my boss that I really hoped we would get a paycheck in a couple of days, because I had spent all of my previous paycheck. Then I added that I had invested 5000 USD in stock last month. My boss just told me that she had children and therefore never can save anything.
My young colleague sitting beside me just asked what kind of stock I had invested in. I answered: just index funds. My boss concluded that I was saving well for a comfortable retirement at old age. Then I couldn't resist telling her that I intended to retire before the age of 67, not going into detail how long before that. She thought that sounded like a good idea, retiring at 62 (her conclusion). I hope to retire well before 50 (am now 44. :-)

[MgoSam]

Where I grew up, in Texas, private schools had a reputation for restricting where seniors could apply to college. You don't get to apply to the Ivies if you're not in the top few kids.

Texas also has a rule, or at least did, that if you're in the top ten percent of your graduating class, you automatically get into one of the flagship state universities, which are legitimately good schools.

Yeah, I've heard of the 10% rule, and know someone who's parents switched him to public school after paying for private school all the way until he reached 9th grade for this reason.

For restricting what schools you can apply to, I'm not a fan of the heavy handedness of it but I can understand it from the school's perspective. If 20 people in a class of 200 are applying to Yale and most aren't academically reasonable, it can hurt the chances of the 1 or 2 that might have a shot at getting in. I imagine it wouldn't be hard for schools to restrict where their students can apply as to apply you need recommendations from teachers, counselor, and transcripts which teachers can refuse or make other excuses as can administrators. Not saying this right, but I'm sure it happens. I know that when I was applying I had the grades and scores so my counselor and the teachers wrote my recommendations but I'm sure that there were fellow classmates that were encouraged to set their sights lower when applying, though I doubt they were refused the ability to apply to Harvard had they wanted to.

[BTDretire]

If you think Ramen is a cheap food, you are not making it right.
Cup Ramen don't count here since they lack half the stuff.
This looks like a good Ramen
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2013/0225/20130225__130228eat-ramen.jpg

Damn that looks good. I've done my share of dressed-up noodle dishes over the years, but not as much lately since DW isn't a soup girl.
Makes me wanna get back to it though, maybe next time she travels solo...

Except if you are one of those people who are more happy and more healthy with a pet.

Yeah, I seriously credit my dogs with a huge positive fitness/health impact. A few years into adulthood, after a pet-free military career, I settled down and got a puppy, and my mom sent me one of Cesar Millan's books. He may be right about some things and wrong about others, but I'll defend his view on dog exercise till I die... because it's kept my dogs healthy and happy, and because it also meant I get out 2-3 times a day with virtually no exceptions for the past decade, maybe 20 minutes on a busy day but generally 30+ and often over an hour. Without dogs, my baseline activity level could easily have been more like "nothing" for much of that time, but knowing that their health and well-being depended on it was enough to get me out there. And even when I'm doing well and rocking a much more intensive fitness routine, it still adds some calorie burn and basic toning, and helps me form and maintain connections with neighbors that so many people are lacking in these times. I could say more, but I don't wanna drone on forever...

 I work in an area where I see people walking there dogs regularly. The sad thing I see are so many that have not trained there dog to walk on a leash. They have them on a leash and the dog never stops pulling on the leash. It can not be joyful to constantly having the the dog pulling on your arm. It can't be fun for the dog to have it collar constantly pulling on it's neck either.
Train your dogs for a joyful walk people!

[By the River]

Where I grew up, in Texas, private schools had a reputation for restricting where seniors could apply to college. You don't get to apply to the Ivies if you're not in the top few kids.

Texas also has a rule, or at least did, that if you're in the top ten percent of your graduating class, you automatically get into one of the flagship state universities, which are legitimately good schools. There's good and bad aspects to this, but it means that if you go to a "good" high school and don't make it into the top 10%, there's no room for you at UT-Austin or Texas A&M. So people spend bazillions to send their kid to a fancy private school, and then they get their college degree from UT-El Paso or similar.

(Nothing wrong with UTEP! But it's obviously not what those parents were after.)

Of course people will game any system and this has been gamed as well.  I've heard of some people whose kids are in the 11-15% range at one of the very good suburban schools renting apartments in an area with lesser schools for their kid's senior year.  Then stay in the apartment a few nights and have auto acceptance at UT or A&M. 

[boarder42]

My kid expenses:

Daycare (until they get into school age 5ish): Averaged out to around $250 per week * 52 weeks (had to pay even if kid didn't go to keep our spot) * 3 kids * 4.5 years = $175,500.
Summer Care (wife is SAHM now so these were cut shorter): $250 per week * 16 weeks * (5 years for oldest, 3 years for middle kid, 1 year for youngest; 9 years) = $36,000
Difference in health care: $340/month vs. (29 + 34 - not adding the 34 due to wife going SAHM, but chioces were single and family) = $277 per month * 11 years so far, will be at least 17 if all kids are off health care by age 18: $59,832
Kid Activities: Swim lessons, piano lessons, soccer, football, dance, entertainment etc: about $345 a month ($115 each kid, 1st - 12th grade).  Started around the time youngest hit 1st grade, still going, so assume college it ends: $45,540
Assumed College Expenses: 100k each: $300k

Total for all three kids will be something like $616,872 not counting food/clothing, or $205,624 each.  I'm not claiming to be frugal with our kid expenses.  We spend a lot on experiential things like music and sports, but not much on clothing brands etc.

yeah and you're throwin 100k in for college - which is a crazy high number for college IMO.   so half you kid expense is college cost. 

[cheapass]

Of course people will game any system and this has been gamed as well.  I've heard of some people whose kids are in the 11-15% range at one of the very good suburban schools renting apartments in an area with lesser schools for their kid's senior year.  Then stay in the apartment a few nights and have auto acceptance at UT or A&M.

A former coworker and I were discussing the business idea of developing a totally bare-bones, minimalist apartment building in a really good school district. I'm talking like 100 sq ft. apartments (or whatever is the minimum to meet city code) that are technically a residence but are realistically unliveable. They would be rented solely as a mailing address to get access to the good school districts without the hundreds of thousands of dollars in extra housing cost.

[sw1tch]

Of course people will game any system and this has been gamed as well.  I've heard of some people whose kids are in the 11-15% range at one of the very good suburban schools renting apartments in an area with lesser schools for their kid's senior year.  Then stay in the apartment a few nights and have auto acceptance at UT or A&M.

A former coworker and I were discussing the business idea of developing a totally bare-bones, minimalist apartment building in a really good school district. I'm talking like 100 sq ft. apartments (or whatever is the minimum to meet city code) that are technically a residence but are realistically unliveable. They would be rented solely as a mailing address to get access to the good school districts without the hundreds of thousands of dollars in extra housing cost.

This got me thinking of Bender's room in Futurama (size of a closet).

Anyhow, my wife suggested something like this for nomads to have a legal address that's an actual residence for banking purposes (and can be inhabited when actually local).  I mean the square footage of tiny houses is right around the same size (100-400).  This idea could be applied to both concepts (TX sounds like a good location to get 2 birds with one stone - schools + no state income tax).

[dragoncar]

Of course people will game any system and this has been gamed as well.  I've heard of some people whose kids are in the 11-15% range at one of the very good suburban schools renting apartments in an area with lesser schools for their kid's senior year.  Then stay in the apartment a few nights and have auto acceptance at UT or A&M.

A former coworker and I were discussing the business idea of developing a totally bare-bones, minimalist apartment building in a really good school district. I'm talking like 100 sq ft. apartments (or whatever is the minimum to meet city code) that are technically a residence but are realistically unliveable. They would be rented solely as a mailing address to get access to the good school districts without the hundreds of thousands of dollars in extra housing cost.

Good school districts tend to check on that stuff... I briefly considered buying raw land or renting an apartment in a better school district (would still be cheaper than the difference in home price) but I want my kid to actually be able to invite friends over.  I suspect other parents would report you once they realize you actually live in another town.  And just owning property is not sufficient -- the requirement is residency.

If you are willing to lie, then why rent a 100 sq ft apartment at all?  Just lie, and maybe work out a mail forwarding/fake lease situation with a childless homeowner.
 However, if you are caught this will be very disruptive to your kid's life.  I don't believe enough in school ratings to risk that, as long as the rightful school is physically safe.

[JrDoctor]

That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

Australia's peak body of super funds ran numbers on this recently.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/retirement/2017/07/05/dog-cat-costs/

Apparently a fish is the most mustachian pet.

Main issue with the birds is catching chlamydia off them or developing bird fanciers lung, which outside of a free at point of use healthcare system wouldn't be cheap.

[LennStar]

Where I grew up, in Texas, private schools had a reputation for restricting where seniors could apply to college. You don't get to apply to the Ivies if you're not in the top few kids.

Texas also has a rule, or at least did, that if you're in the top ten percent of your graduating class, you automatically get into one of the flagship state universities, which are legitimately good schools.

Yeah, I've heard of the 10% rule, and know someone who's parents switched him to public school after paying for private school all the way until he reached 9th grade for this reason.

Why can a fucking school restrict you from applying somewhere, what ever that may be??

Either you have the degree you need for university or you don't have.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

Where I grew up, in Texas, private schools had a reputation for restricting where seniors could apply to college. You don't get to apply to the Ivies if you're not in the top few kids.

Texas also has a rule, or at least did, that if you're in the top ten percent of your graduating class, you automatically get into one of the flagship state universities, which are legitimately good schools.

Yeah, I've heard of the 10% rule, and know someone who's parents switched him to public school after paying for private school all the way until he reached 9th grade for this reason.

Why can a fucking school restrict you from applying somewhere, what ever that may be??

Either you have the degree you need for university or you don't have.

As MgoSam said you need lots of documentation from the high school to include with your college application. The high schools can't actually keep anybody from applying, but they can make it hard.

Also, you don't need a high school degree to go to college. My high school was supportive of me going to college after 11th grade, but they did request that I take the state standardized test that year, which did me no good, to help their average.

(In order to monitor kids dropping out of school, Texas makes schools fill out a form on everybody who leaves without graduating. They went with "transferred to a private institution in another state" to make sure I didn't mess up their metrics.)

[JordanOfGilead]

My kid expenses:

Daycare (until they get into school age 5ish): Averaged out to around $250 per week * 52 weeks (had to pay even if kid didn't go to keep our spot) * 3 kids * 4.5 years = $175,500.
Summer Care (wife is SAHM now so these were cut shorter): $250 per week * 16 weeks * (5 years for oldest, 3 years for middle kid, 1 year for youngest; 9 years) = $36,000
Difference in health care: $340/month vs. (29 + 34 - not adding the 34 due to wife going SAHM, but chioces were single and family) = $277 per month * 11 years so far, will be at least 17 if all kids are off health care by age 18: $59,832
Kid Activities: Swim lessons, piano lessons, soccer, football, dance, entertainment etc: about $345 a month ($115 each kid, 1st - 12th grade).  Started around the time youngest hit 1st grade, still going, so assume college it ends: $45,540
Assumed College Expenses: 100k each: $300k

Total for all three kids will be something like $616,872 not counting food/clothing, or $205,624 each.  I'm not claiming to be frugal with our kid expenses.  We spend a lot on experiential things like music and sports, but not much on clothing brands etc.

I was once given the advice that "if you have to pay for your own master's degree, it's not going to help your career."
I feel like the same would be applicable if changed to "If you have to pay $100k for college (with the exception of law or medical school), then it's not going to help your career."

Seriously, I have friends that MADE money in college thanks to part time jobs and scholarships with $50k+/yr jobs and other friends with $100k in debt that are working jobs that pay less than most factory work. Throwing money at education does not guarantee return on investment.

[Cookie78]

If you think Ramen is a cheap food, you are not making it right.
Cup Ramen don't count here since they lack half the stuff.
This looks like a good Ramen
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2013/0225/20130225__130228eat-ramen.jpg

Damn that looks good. I've done my share of dressed-up noodle dishes over the years, but not as much lately since DW isn't a soup girl.
Makes me wanna get back to it though, maybe next time she travels solo...

Except if you are one of those people who are more happy and more healthy with a pet.

Yeah, I seriously credit my dogs with a huge positive fitness/health impact. A few years into adulthood, after a pet-free military career, I settled down and got a puppy, and my mom sent me one of Cesar Millan's books. He may be right about some things and wrong about others, but I'll defend his view on dog exercise till I die... because it's kept my dogs healthy and happy, and because it also meant I get out 2-3 times a day with virtually no exceptions for the past decade, maybe 20 minutes on a busy day but generally 30+ and often over an hour. Without dogs, my baseline activity level could easily have been more like "nothing" for much of that time, but knowing that their health and well-being depended on it was enough to get me out there. And even when I'm doing well and rocking a much more intensive fitness routine, it still adds some calorie burn and basic toning, and helps me form and maintain connections with neighbors that so many people are lacking in these times. I could say more, but I don't wanna drone on forever...

 I work in an area where I see people walking there dogs regularly. The sad thing I see are so many that have not trained there dog to walk on a leash. They have them on a leash and the dog never stops pulling on the leash. It can not be joyful to constantly having the the dog pulling on your arm. It can't be fun for the dog to have it collar constantly pulling on it's neck either.
Train your dogs for a joyful walk people!

I've been working on that for 8 years, sigh. We're getting there, unless a squirrel or dog or cat or god forbid a rabbit runs by. The newer dog does much better at not pulling. She's MUCH better at spotting cats, but just stops and stares when she sees them.

[mtn]

If you think Ramen is a cheap food, you are not making it right.
Cup Ramen don't count here since they lack half the stuff.
This looks like a good Ramen
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2013/0225/20130225__130228eat-ramen.jpg

Damn that looks good. I've done my share of dressed-up noodle dishes over the years, but not as much lately since DW isn't a soup girl.
Makes me wanna get back to it though, maybe next time she travels solo...

Except if you are one of those people who are more happy and more healthy with a pet.

Yeah, I seriously credit my dogs with a huge positive fitness/health impact. A few years into adulthood, after a pet-free military career, I settled down and got a puppy, and my mom sent me one of Cesar Millan's books. He may be right about some things and wrong about others, but I'll defend his view on dog exercise till I die... because it's kept my dogs healthy and happy, and because it also meant I get out 2-3 times a day with virtually no exceptions for the past decade, maybe 20 minutes on a busy day but generally 30+ and often over an hour. Without dogs, my baseline activity level could easily have been more like "nothing" for much of that time, but knowing that their health and well-being depended on it was enough to get me out there. And even when I'm doing well and rocking a much more intensive fitness routine, it still adds some calorie burn and basic toning, and helps me form and maintain connections with neighbors that so many people are lacking in these times. I could say more, but I don't wanna drone on forever...

 I work in an area where I see people walking there dogs regularly. The sad thing I see are so many that have not trained there dog to walk on a leash. They have them on a leash and the dog never stops pulling on the leash. It can not be joyful to constantly having the the dog pulling on your arm. It can't be fun for the dog to have it collar constantly pulling on it's neck either.
Train your dogs for a joyful walk people!

I've been working on that for 8 years, sigh. We're getting there, unless a squirrel or dog or cat or god forbid a rabbit runs by. The newer dog does much better at not pulling. She's MUCH better at spotting cats, but just stops and stares when she sees them.

The fact is that not all dogs can be trained. See: 75% of goldendoodles/labradoodles. Just batshit crazy dogs that no amount of obedience training will help. That doesn't make them bad dogs. That just means that they may not be good for an unaware owner/handler, or one that isn't capable of restraining them in a serious situation.

No I'm not a dog trainer, but I've had purebred Goldens (British and American), purebred Great Pyrenees, a lab/mountain cur (we think) mix, and a Samoyed/Aussie (we think) mix. I've had significant experience (watching for at least 2 weeks total for each) with Great Danes, miniature dauchunds, poodles, pit mixes, a Chow/Lab mix, GSD, English bulldogs, labs, and schitzu's. All of them have had responsible (or at least once-responsible before dementia) owners. Not all have been trainable--sure, you could train nearly any of them to sit, but getting them to heal doesn't always happen. And some (like Great Pyrenees) are not supposed to be trained.

And I refuse to watch labradoodles or goldendoodles except for very specific cases. Almost all of them are just batshit crazy and unpredictable.

[BTDretire]

Of course people will game any system and this has been gamed as well.  I've heard of some people whose kids are in the 11-15% range at one of the very good suburban schools renting apartments in an area with lesser schools for their kid's senior year.  Then stay in the apartment a few nights and have auto acceptance at UT or A&M.

A former coworker and I were discussing the business idea of developing a totally bare-bones, minimalist apartment building in a really good school district. I'm talking like 100 sq ft. apartments (or whatever is the minimum to meet city code) that are technically a residence but are realistically unliveable. They would be rented solely as a mailing address to get access to the good school districts without the hundreds of thousands of dollars in extra housing cost.

Good school districts tend to check on that stuff... I briefly considered buying raw land or renting an apartment in a better school district (would still be cheaper than the difference in home price) but I want my kid to actually be able to invite friends over.  I suspect other parents would report you once they realize you actually live in another town.  And just owning property is not sufficient -- the requirement is residency.

If you are willing to lie, then why rent a 100 sq ft apartment at all?  Just lie, and maybe work out a mail forwarding/fake lease situation with a childless homeowner.
 However, if you are caught this will be very disruptive to your kid's life.  I don't believe enough in school ratings to risk that, as long as the rightful school is physically safe.

We did, or rather I went along with my wife lying as to our address, when my kids entered middle school.
Also changed the date on my daughters birth certificate to get her in kindergarten a year earlier.
 I don't regret it, she graduated 4th in her class and both kids were accepted to a state university.
Daughter now has two BS degrees and working on a Masters now.
Wonder if that's cause she had better schools with great teachers, or she just works hard?
You decide!
Statute of limitations ran out several years ago.

[gReed Smith]

Also, you don't need a high school degree to go to college. My high school was supportive of me going to college after 11th grade, but they did request that I take the state standardized test that year, which did me no good, to help their average.

When I told my principal I was leaving after 11th grade, he basically asked me as a personal favor to take the standardized test to help the school.  Of course I did it, because he always treated me fairly and deserved my goodwill in return.

[tyort1]

Of course people will game any system and this has been gamed as well.  I've heard of some people whose kids are in the 11-15% range at one of the very good suburban schools renting apartments in an area with lesser schools for their kid's senior year.  Then stay in the apartment a few nights and have auto acceptance at UT or A&M.

A former coworker and I were discussing the business idea of developing a totally bare-bones, minimalist apartment building in a really good school district. I'm talking like 100 sq ft. apartments (or whatever is the minimum to meet city code) that are technically a residence but are realistically unliveable. They would be rented solely as a mailing address to get access to the good school districts without the hundreds of thousands of dollars in extra housing cost.

Good school districts tend to check on that stuff... I briefly considered buying raw land or renting an apartment in a better school district (would still be cheaper than the difference in home price) but I want my kid to actually be able to invite friends over.  I suspect other parents would report you once they realize you actually live in another town.  And just owning property is not sufficient -- the requirement is residency.

If you are willing to lie, then why rent a 100 sq ft apartment at all?  Just lie, and maybe work out a mail forwarding/fake lease situation with a childless homeowner.
 However, if you are caught this will be very disruptive to your kid's life.  I don't believe enough in school ratings to risk that, as long as the rightful school is physically safe.

We did, or rather I went along with my wife lying as to our address, when my kids entered middle school.
Also changed the date on my daughters birth certificate to get her in kindergarten a year earlier.
 I don't regret it, she graduated 4th in her class and both kids were accepted to a state university.
Daughter now has two BS degrees and working on a Masters now.
Wonder if that's cause she had better schools with great teachers, or she just works hard?
You decide!
Statute of limitations ran out several years ago.

Weren't you complaining in a different thread about a person using multiple EBT cards to pay for groceries (ie, 'cheating the system'), and yet here you are admitting to much worse and much more serious cheating.  Interesting.

[Cookie78]

If you think Ramen is a cheap food, you are not making it right.
Cup Ramen don't count here since they lack half the stuff.
This looks like a good Ramen
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2013/0225/20130225__130228eat-ramen.jpg

Damn that looks good. I've done my share of dressed-up noodle dishes over the years, but not as much lately since DW isn't a soup girl.
Makes me wanna get back to it though, maybe next time she travels solo...

Except if you are one of those people who are more happy and more healthy with a pet.

Yeah, I seriously credit my dogs with a huge positive fitness/health impact. A few years into adulthood, after a pet-free military career, I settled down and got a puppy, and my mom sent me one of Cesar Millan's books. He may be right about some things and wrong about others, but I'll defend his view on dog exercise till I die... because it's kept my dogs healthy and happy, and because it also meant I get out 2-3 times a day with virtually no exceptions for the past decade, maybe 20 minutes on a busy day but generally 30+ and often over an hour. Without dogs, my baseline activity level could easily have been more like "nothing" for much of that time, but knowing that their health and well-being depended on it was enough to get me out there. And even when I'm doing well and rocking a much more intensive fitness routine, it still adds some calorie burn and basic toning, and helps me form and maintain connections with neighbors that so many people are lacking in these times. I could say more, but I don't wanna drone on forever...

 I work in an area where I see people walking there dogs regularly. The sad thing I see are so many that have not trained there dog to walk on a leash. They have them on a leash and the dog never stops pulling on the leash. It can not be joyful to constantly having the the dog pulling on your arm. It can't be fun for the dog to have it collar constantly pulling on it's neck either.
Train your dogs for a joyful walk people!

I've been working on that for 8 years, sigh. We're getting there, unless a squirrel or dog or cat or god forbid a rabbit runs by. The newer dog does much better at not pulling. She's MUCH better at spotting cats, but just stops and stares when she sees them.

The fact is that not all dogs can be trained. See: 75% of goldendoodles/labradoodles. Just batshit crazy dogs that no amount of obedience training will help. That doesn't make them bad dogs. That just means that they may not be good for an unaware owner/handler, or one that isn't capable of restraining them in a serious situation.

No I'm not a dog trainer, but I've had purebred Goldens (British and American), purebred Great Pyrenees, a lab/mountain cur (we think) mix, and a Samoyed/Aussie (we think) mix. I've had significant experience (watching for at least 2 weeks total for each) with Great Danes, miniature dauchunds, poodles, pit mixes, a Chow/Lab mix, GSD, English bulldogs, labs, and schitzu's. All of them have had responsible (or at least once-responsible before dementia) owners. Not all have been trainable--sure, you could train nearly any of them to sit, but getting them to heal doesn't always happen. And some (like Great Pyrenees) are not supposed to be trained.

And I refuse to watch labradoodles or goldendoodles except for very specific cases. Almost all of them are just batshit crazy and unpredictable.

My older dog is a bit of a riddle. He's certainly trainable, but getting him to calmly enjoy walks on a leash is tough. He can sit, stay, close the door, find his toy, put his toys away, figure 8, jump, give me a hug, paw, dance, find my niece, come, lie down, go to bed, wait, leave the treat alone when I say 'mine', roll over, turn around, go under, jump over, go pee and poop on demand, scent tracking, keep completely quiet while hunting, and a dozen other fun tricks. But walking beside me calmly on a leash, omg that seems to be torture for him. If we go on walks through the forest where he's allowed off leash he runs to and fro and checks in on occasion, and comes when I call him if he gets out of sight, but if that leash is on, things are tough, especially if other animals around around.

Yet I don't mind walking him because I know him well enough I can read his body language, predict his behavior, avoid stressful situations, and work on getting better. Lately he's been doing much better. He will see a cat, react and jump around, but still keep moving in the direction we are walking, at the same speed, while twisting around to see the cat. I also know when he's about to lunge before he does when it happens and I get a little upper body workout from it. But I get nervous when other people want to walk him.

[mtn]

My older dog is a bit of a riddle. He's certainly trainable, but getting him to calmly enjoy walks on a leash is tough. He can sit, stay, close the door, find his toy, put his toys away, figure 8, jump, give me a hug, paw, dance, find my niece, come, lie down, go to bed, wait, leave the treat alone when I say 'mine', roll over, turn around, go under, jump over, go pee and poop on demand, scent tracking, keep completely quiet while hunting, and a dozen other fun tricks. But walking beside me calmly on a leash, omg that seems to be torture for him. If we go on walks through the forest where he's allowed off leash he runs to and fro and checks in on occasion, and comes when I call him if he gets out of sight, but if that leash is on, things are tough, especially if other animals around around.

Yet I don't mind walking him because I know him well enough I can read his body language, predict his behavior, avoid stressful situations, and work on getting better. Lately he's been doing much better. He will see a cat, react and jump around, but still keep moving in the direction we are walking, at the same speed, while twisting around to see the cat. I also know when he's about to lunge before he does when it happens and I get a little upper body workout from it. But I get nervous when other people want to walk him.

When I was a kid, our purebred British Golden of an extremely incredible pedigree*--was the worlds best dog (RIP). But she hated being on a leash. We'd put the leash on her, then bunch the leash up and hand it to her. She'd walk 2 miles right next to us with the leash in her mouth. Try to hold the leash, and she was a nightmare. Go figure.

*I just state purebred and pedigree for reference-she was somewhat of a rescue in that she was bred for dog shows and the breeder was very responsible and normally didn't sell any litters ever, but this litter came on the heals of a divorce and cancer diagnosis. My family has had wonderful dogs from rescues and breeders; each have their purpose. Generally I recommend rescuing, but it isn't always appropriate for each situation

[dividendman]

We did, or rather I went along with my wife lying as to our address, when my kids entered middle school.
Also changed the date on my daughters birth certificate to get her in kindergarten a year earlier.
 I don't regret it, she graduated 4th in her class and both kids were accepted to a state university.
Daughter now has two BS degrees and working on a Masters now.
Wonder if that's cause she had better schools with great teachers, or she just works hard?
You decide!
Statute of limitations ran out several years ago.

Weren't you complaining in a different thread about a person using multiple EBT cards to pay for groceries (ie, 'cheating the system'), and yet here you are admitting to much worse and much more serious cheating.  Interesting.

Haha. It amazes me when people think something they do that's against the rules is justified, but when others break the rules it's their moral bankruptcy.

To be fair, BTDretire didn't come out and say it was reprehensible:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/mustachian-people-problems-(just-for-fun)/msg1613574/#msg1613574

[mustachepungoeshere]

We did, or rather I went along with my wife lying as to our address, when my kids entered middle school.
Also changed the date on my daughters birth certificate to get her in kindergarten a year earlier.
 I don't regret it, she graduated 4th in her class and both kids were accepted to a state university.
Daughter now has two BS degrees and working on a Masters now.
Wonder if that's cause she had better schools with great teachers, or she just works hard?
You decide!
Statute of limitations ran out several years ago.

Weren't you complaining in a different thread about a person using multiple EBT cards to pay for groceries (ie, 'cheating the system'), and yet here you are admitting to much worse and much more serious cheating.  Interesting.

Haha. It amazes me when people think something they do that's against the rules is justified, but when others break the rules it's their moral bankruptcy.

To be fair, BTDretire didn't come out and say it was reprehensible:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/mustachian-people-problems-(just-for-fun)/msg1613574/#msg1613574

We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their actions.

[lnwlf17]

I've been in the military for a year now, and I can confirm that the stereotype of young soldiers being bad with money is horrifyingly accurate. Some examples...

At this base, cafeteria dues are mandatory and very expensive ($570 a month). Yet, it is quite common for soldiers to eat at Subway for lunch and dinner instead. Every. Single. Day. That's an extra $500+ a month, on top of the $600 for mess dues. Many soldiers here spend, I would say, 70%-90% of their net income on food. The rest goes to booze. It's insane.

I once overheard a conversation between some recruits about investing in the stock market. One guy explained that the "trick" to making money on stocks is to wait until Apple is about to release a new phone or gadget and then put a couple thousand into the stock. "Because the phone is about to come out, the stock price is about to go up!" They all nodded in agreement with each other, very matter-of-factly. I didn't bother to interject because none of them have the cash to actually do something so foolish (they spent it all at Subway and booze!)

We recently received bonuses which were retroactively applied to all the salary that was earned since mid 2014....this amounted to some quite generous bonuses being paid out. Enough that some people could have went from living paycheck to paycheck to having several months expenses saved. A month and a half later, everyone is back to being broke. It's all gone. Frittered away on hotels and booze and more. One guy used it to finance a 2017 Honda Civic. His old car was a 2014 Honda Civic...

[facepalm]

A former coworker and I were discussing the business idea of developing a totally bare-bones, minimalist apartment building in a really good school district. I'm talking like 100 sq ft. apartments (or whatever is the minimum to meet city code) that are technically a residence but are realistically unliveable. They would be rented solely as a mailing address to get access to the good school districts without the hundreds of thousands of dollars in extra housing cost.

The minimalist apartment idea would simply not fly due to zoning restrictions. Most local building codes specify minimum and maximum densities. You would never be granted the permits. Where I work parents have to bring in a utility bill as proof of residence, to keep parents from trying to game the system. Some still do, and an occasional few get away with it. Generally, other parents will report someone trying to game the system.

We did, or rather I went along with my wife lying as to our address, when my kids entered middle school.
Also changed the date on my daughters birth certificate to get her in kindergarten a year earlier.
 I don't regret it, she graduated 4th in her class and both kids were accepted to a state university.
Daughter now has two BS degrees and working on a Masters now.
Wonder if that's cause she had better schools with great teachers, or she just works hard?
You decide!

Your daughter is a success because you cared about her education and took steps to support her. And I'm betting there were other measures you took to ensure her success. Parental involvement in their child's education is a reliable predictor of academic success. Of course her hard work contributed, as did having excellent teachers.

I had to edit a bit of the post to simplify it, forgive me in advance if I misattributed anyone's quote.

[zolotiyeruki]

Your daughter is a success because you cared about her education and took steps to support her. And I'm betting there were other measures you took to ensure her success. Parental involvement in their child's education is a reliable predictor of academic success. Of course her hard work contributed, as did having excellent teachers.

What I've heard is that the most reliable indicator for academic success, head and shoulders above any other, is parental involvement.  More than any demographic, socioeconomic, or other factor.

[LennStar]

The minimalist apartment idea would simply not fly due to zoning restrictions. Most local building codes specify minimum and maximum densities. You would never be granted the permits.

If you are interested in the zoning topic, put aside half an hour for my article and the 2 linked sites on the bottom of it.

https://steemit.com/life/@lennstar/why-japan-has-walkable-neighborhoods-and-the-us-has-not

[Dave1442397]

At this base, cafeteria dues are mandatory and very expensive ($570 a month).

I had no idea that you had to pay for your food in the military - I thought it was part of the deal that you got food, shelter and clothing. $570 a month is about what our family of three spends on food, so $570 for a single guy is just crazy. To pay that and then go spend more money on food is even worse.

[cheapass]

A former coworker and I were discussing the business idea of developing a totally bare-bones, minimalist apartment building in a really good school district. I'm talking like 100 sq ft. apartments (or whatever is the minimum to meet city code) that are technically a residence but are realistically unliveable. They would be rented solely as a mailing address to get access to the good school districts without the hundreds of thousands of dollars in extra housing cost.

The minimalist apartment idea would simply not fly due to zoning restrictions. Most local building codes specify minimum and maximum densities. You would never be granted the permits. Where I work parents have to bring in a utility bill as proof of residence, to keep parents from trying to game the system. Some still do, and an occasional few get away with it. Generally, other parents will report someone trying to game the system.

Sure, all of those details would have to be worked out in advance. Maybe people would occupy a few of them and that would be the advertised/intended purpose but the unstated opportunity would be a cheap-ass apartment for families to rent to get into a good school district. I'm sure the electricity bills would be cheap if they spend most of their time in another location.

[shelivesthedream]

The minimalist apartment idea would simply not fly due to zoning restrictions. Most local building codes specify minimum and maximum densities. You would never be granted the permits.

If you are interested in the zoning topic, put aside half an hour for my article and the 2 linked sites on the bottom of it.

https://steemit.com/life/@lennstar/why-japan-has-walkable-neighborhoods-and-the-us-has-not

Those Urban Kchoze articles have been hugely influential in the way I look at the world. I would seriously recommend that people check them out.

[mm1970]

A former coworker and I were discussing the business idea of developing a totally bare-bones, minimalist apartment building in a really good school district. I'm talking like 100 sq ft. apartments (or whatever is the minimum to meet city code) that are technically a residence but are realistically unliveable. They would be rented solely as a mailing address to get access to the good school districts without the hundreds of thousands of dollars in extra housing cost.

The minimalist apartment idea would simply not fly due to zoning restrictions. Most local building codes specify minimum and maximum densities. You would never be granted the permits. Where I work parents have to bring in a utility bill as proof of residence, to keep parents from trying to game the system. Some still do, and an occasional few get away with it. Generally, other parents will report someone trying to game the system.

Sure, all of those details would have to be worked out in advance. Maybe people would occupy a few of them and that would be the advertised/intended purpose but the unstated opportunity would be a cheap-ass apartment for families to rent to get into a good school district. I'm sure the electricity bills would be cheap if they spend most of their time in another location.

In my land of families that are either broke, or have too much money than they know what to do with...

My husband's coworker's neighbor owns a small home in the "best" school district.  That he does not live in.  Only so his kids can go to that school.  They live in a different district.

Even a 2BR fixer in the "best" district is $1.2M.  In the district where they actually physically reside, $1.2M will get you a bit more of a house.  (Generally there is a $150k to $250k delta between those two districts).

[BFGirl]

We are having a baby shower at work for a co-worker.  I'm one of the hostesses, but the other two basically planned the whole thing while I was on vacation, sigh.  We are apparently spending $145 for a custom frou frou cake that won't even be eaten at the party but will be sent home with the mom-to-be.  Now I am all about supporting independent artisans in whatever field and I know that some of these cakes take a lot of time to make, but really, $145 for a cake the guests won't even get to enjoy???  We will be having cupcakes for the guests that surround the cake.  I'd rather use that money to buy a more useful gift for the mom-to-be.  I want the shower to be nice, but I just don't understand spending that on a cake and then not serving it to the guests.

[ketchup]

We are having a baby shower at work for a co-worker.  I'm one of the hostesses, but the other two basically planned the whole thing while I was on vacation, sigh.  We are apparently spending $145 for a custom frou frou cake that won't even be eaten at the party but will be sent home with the mom-to-be.  Now I am all about supporting independent artisans in whatever field and I know that some of these cakes take a lot of time to make, but really, $145 for a cake the guests won't even get to enjoy???  We will be having cupcakes for the guests that surround the cake.  I'd rather use that money to buy a more useful gift for the mom-to-be.  I want the shower to be nice, but I just don't understand spending that on a cake and then not serving it to the guests.

Yeah that seems kind of dumb.  If someone gave me an entire cake to bring home, I'd probably just say fuck that and slice it up right there, take a piece, and let my coworkers at the rest.

[shelivesthedream]

We are having a baby shower at work for a co-worker.  I'm one of the hostesses, but the other two basically planned the whole thing while I was on vacation, sigh.  We are apparently spending $145 for a custom frou frou cake that won't even be eaten at the party but will be sent home with the mom-to-be.  Now I am all about supporting independent artisans in whatever field and I know that some of these cakes take a lot of time to make, but really, $145 for a cake the guests won't even get to enjoy???  We will be having cupcakes for the guests that surround the cake.  I'd rather use that money to buy a more useful gift for the mom-to-be.  I want the shower to be nice, but I just don't understand spending that on a cake and then not serving it to the guests.

Because what does mum-to-be even do with an entire cake? Unless this is her twentieth child (in which case presumably she would be so over baby showers) there are just not going to be enough people at home to eat it. Cake for breakfast is great one day - not so much for a week.

[BFGirl]

We are having a baby shower at work for a co-worker.  I'm one of the hostesses, but the other two basically planned the whole thing while I was on vacation, sigh.  We are apparently spending $145 for a custom frou frou cake that won't even be eaten at the party but will be sent home with the mom-to-be.  Now I am all about supporting independent artisans in whatever field and I know that some of these cakes take a lot of time to make, but really, $145 for a cake the guests won't even get to enjoy???  We will be having cupcakes for the guests that surround the cake.  I'd rather use that money to buy a more useful gift for the mom-to-be.  I want the shower to be nice, but I just don't understand spending that on a cake and then not serving it to the guests.

Because what does mum-to-be even do with an entire cake? Unless this is her twentieth child (in which case presumably she would be so over baby showers) there are just not going to be enough people at home to eat it. Cake for breakfast is great one day - not so much for a week.

I'm not positive but I think it is a 7" cake with a 4" topper, so it's not even that much cake to begin with.  It's basically a $145 perishable centerpiece.

[Dollar Slice]

I work in a small office (3 rooms, 4-7 people depending on the day). We have two new people who were given the nicest room to themselves. So far I've observed:

1. Coins in their garbage can
2. Dumping the recycle in the trash, and dumping trash in the recycle
3. Leaving the office for the day without shutting off lights
4. Leaving the office for the day without shutting off air conditioner (window unit)

I got some new recycle bins for the office that are bright blue and marked with recycle symbols, and I'm hoping they were simply confused about which bin(s) to use. I'm usually the last to leave so I've been shutting off lights and A/C if I notice that they're on. Today everyone's left and one of the new guys left the A/C on and shut the door to that office. So I'm thinking he is trying to give me a hint that it should be left alone...? Presumably so it's not hot when he comes in tomorrow morning. But what an incredible waste to leave the A/C on for 16 hours because you can't spend 30 minutes letting it cool down. :-(

[mustachepungoeshere]

Colleague came to work in new boots that retail for $945 then complained she didn't have enough money to get her fridge repaired.

[RyanAtTanagra]

Colleague came to work in new boots that retail for $945 then complained she didn't have enough money to get her fridge repaired.

Did you laugh as you pointed out the obvious?  That would be one of those times my usual quiet demeanor would fail.

[mustachepungoeshere]

... new people

...one of the new guys

FNG is taking liberties!

[BuffaloStache]

The minimalist apartment idea would simply not fly due to zoning restrictions. Most local building codes specify minimum and maximum densities. You would never be granted the permits.

If you are interested in the zoning topic, put aside half an hour for my article and the 2 linked sites on the bottom of it.

https://steemit.com/life/@lennstar/why-japan-has-walkable-neighborhoods-and-the-us-has-not

Thanks for this! Very good read.

[CutTheFat]

Cw has been with company just shy of 4 years.  She just purchased the 3rd new vehicle since she started working with us.  Neither of the 2 cars were even paid off when she traded them in.  This is the same cw that I have mentioned previously.  It just amazes me!!! 

[rdaneel0]

This wasn't overheard it was said to me, and it was totally bizarre.

CW: I'm going to see [insert movie name] tonight!
Me: Oh cool, have fun! What's it about?
CW: You haven't heard of [insert movie name]??!?!?
Me: No, I don't really go to the movies that often. I think the last movie I saw in theaters was Hunger Games.
CW: Seriously? I feel really bad for you. Like, that's embarrassing, you should be embarrassed about that. You know, some movies are actually pretty good, so you should go once in a while.
Me: (stunned) Wow, you feel bad for me?
CW: Yeah. That's ridiculous.

I was so shocked I didn't say anything. It was surreal. I should have pulled out my bank statement. Then she wouldn't have to pity me, hah!

[MgoSam]

CW: Seriously? I feel really bad for you. Like, that's embarrassing, you should be embarrassed about that. You know, some movies are actually pretty good, so you should go once in a while.


I was so shocked I didn't say anything. It was surreal. I should have pulled out my bank statement. Then she wouldn't have to pity me, hah!

I would be too. My warehouse manager hasn't seen a movie in the theater in like 10 years. Now I have a friend that loves movies WAY TOO MUCH imho. He watches about like 150+ a year but even then I don't really say anything as it is his life and if that's what he wants to do then who am I to stop/judge him.

[ketchup]

This wasn't overheard it was said to me, and it was totally bizarre.

CW: I'm going to see [insert movie name] tonight!
Me: Oh cool, have fun! What's it about?
CW: You haven't heard of [insert movie name]??!?!?
Me: No, I don't really go to the movies that often. I think the last movie I saw in theaters was Hunger Games.
CW: Seriously? I feel really bad for you. Like, that's embarrassing, you should be embarrassed about that. You know, some movies are actually pretty good, so you should go once in a while.
Me: (stunned) Wow, you feel bad for me?
CW: Yeah. That's ridiculous.

I was so shocked I didn't say anything. It was surreal. I should have pulled out my bank statement. Then she wouldn't have to pity me, hah!

Wow.  As if movie theaters are the only place to watch movies...  I'll hit the movies maybe 0-2 times a year these days (I think Rogue One was the last), but we'll watch plenty in the comfort of our own home.

[MindfulMoney]

This wasn't overheard it was said to me, and it was totally bizarre.

CW: I'm going to see [insert movie name] tonight!
Me: Oh cool, have fun! What's it about?
CW: You haven't heard of [insert movie name]??!?!?
Me: No, I don't really go to the movies that often. I think the last movie I saw in theaters was Hunger Games.
CW: Seriously? I feel really bad for you. Like, that's embarrassing, you should be embarrassed about that. You know, some movies are actually pretty good, so you should go once in a while.
Me: (stunned) Wow, you feel bad for me?
CW: Yeah. That's ridiculous.

I was so shocked I didn't say anything. It was surreal. I should have pulled out my bank statement. Then she wouldn't have to pity me, hah!

That's sooooo weird that they find this small fact "embarrassing" for you. Judgmental much? I mean a lot of people, even non mustachians don't go to the movie all the time. It's expensive for even big spenders.

We only go when it's a movie we have been looking forward to and specifically an action that will enhanced the experience by being in a big theater.

Still I'm stunned they had such a reaction. In fact you could reverse the conversation and that's me talking about how weird it is they are so opinionated and condescending about your movie attendance! Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dollar Slice]

Haha - Not knowing what movies are out is actually a badge of honor.  It means you don't subject yourself to ridiculous ads that tell you what to buy, watch, eat, drink and think.

For a while I was having issues with moving images (movies, TV, video games etc.) triggering migraines, so I pretty much just quit all movies and TV some years ago and never looked back. I can't even tell you how many conversations I've sat through that go something like...

Person: Have you seen [movie/TV show]?
Me: No.
Person: Oh. How about [movie/TV show]?
Me: No. I don't really watch movies or TV.
Person: OK, but I bet you've seen [movie/TV show]!
Me: No, honestly, I don't even own a TV and I haven't been to the movies in years. 
Person: But you can watch online right? Netflix and Hulu and stuff?
Me: Just assume any question starting with "have you seen" is going to be answered with "no," and let's move on.

[MgoSam]

Agreed Bender. I only see ads when watching live sports and it feels very odd now.

[FIREfly34]

Person: Have you seen [movie/TV show]?
Me: No.
Person: Oh. How about [movie/TV show]?
Me: No. I don't really watch movies or TV.
Person: OK, but I bet you've seen [movie/TV show]!
Me: No, honestly, I don't even own a TV and I haven't been to the movies in years. 
Person: But you can watch online right? Netflix and Hulu and stuff?
Me: Just assume any question starting with "have you seen" is going to be answered with "no," and let's move on.

Ugh, I was just going to post something like this in MPP. It's so effing annoying

[theadvicist]

Even worse is when you say you don't watch such-and-such show, and they go on to describe it to you in detail! Like, I didn't care enough to watch the original, made by professionals. I definitely don't want to listen to you badly rehash it.

[LennStar]

Even worse is when you say you don't watch such-and-such show, and they go on to describe it to you in detail! Like, I didn't care enough to watch the original, made by professionals. I definitely don't want to listen to you badly rehash it.

I do not know (or have heard of) a single missionary that was stopped by this in his Holy Duty.