Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8088717 times)

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18050 on: July 09, 2017, 10:11:32 AM »
I think these days, debt is "normal" and "no big deal".

Well, somebody has to take the debt for all the non-stocks savings. If a billionaire puts 100 million into a bank account, you need 100'000 people to make 1000 debt for that savings.

I don't think that's how it works...

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18051 on: July 10, 2017, 03:10:57 AM »
I think these days, debt is "normal" and "no big deal".

Well, somebody has to take the debt for all the non-stocks savings. If a billionaire puts 100 million into a bank account, you need 100'000 people to make 1000 debt for that savings.

I don't think that's how it works...

Where do you think he got the 100 million from in the first place?

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18052 on: July 10, 2017, 06:27:35 AM »
Maybe they just haven't come to the conclusion yet that they don't want to sit in an office til they're 65 years old. Admittedly, at 25 I wasn't aware of early retirement. It took a few years of working to realize that work kinda sucks and I'd rather be doing what I want to do, not what I'm told to do..

When I was a 25 year old engineer I hadn't heard of early retirement, enjoyed my job enough that I thought I wanted to do it until I couldn't operate my graphic calculator, and figured that as my wages were going to rise over time it may sense to over spend on (low cost) credit to smooth out my fun curve over time.

I'm not saying that this was fantastic logic, but I did what made sense with the information I had at the time.
I'm amazed at the number of engineers in my office who only contribute up to the company match on their 401k (6%) and call it a day. New car, expensive house, electronic gadgets... all more important to them than saving for retirement.

All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

Something else that is ridiculous is people bragging about how they're "adulting" because they bought a car. Yeah...you didn't buy a car. Your bank did. The only requirement in financing a car is having a pulse. You don't even need any credit history. Even with buying a house, there are programs for first time home buyers that only allow you to put 5% down. So that's not really a sign of success either, especially if it's more house than you can afford when kids come into play...

Prime example attached below. Not pictured: Lexus he bought brand new.

nobody123

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18053 on: July 10, 2017, 06:57:11 AM »
Maybe they just haven't come to the conclusion yet that they don't want to sit in an office til they're 65 years old. Admittedly, at 25 I wasn't aware of early retirement. It took a few years of working to realize that work kinda sucks and I'd rather be doing what I want to do, not what I'm told to do..

When I was a 25 year old engineer I hadn't heard of early retirement, enjoyed my job enough that I thought I wanted to do it until I couldn't operate my graphic calculator, and figured that as my wages were going to rise over time it may sense to over spend on (low cost) credit to smooth out my fun curve over time.

I'm not saying that this was fantastic logic, but I did what made sense with the information I had at the time.
I'm amazed at the number of engineers in my office who only contribute up to the company match on their 401k (6%) and call it a day. New car, expensive house, electronic gadgets... all more important to them than saving for retirement.

All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

Something else that is ridiculous is people bragging about how they're "adulting" because they bought a car. Yeah...you didn't buy a car. Your bank did. The only requirement in financing a car is having a pulse. You don't even need any credit history. Even with buying a house, there are programs for first time home buyers that only allow you to put 5% down. So that's not really a sign of success either, especially if it's more house than you can afford when kids come into play...

Prime example attached below. Not pictured: Lexus he bought brand new.

The only thing I find objectionable is the use of the term "adulting."  They choose to spend/save their money in a way that is different from how you choose to spend/save your money.  Assuming they aren't hitting you up for a loan to subsidize their lifestyle, what business of it is yours?

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18054 on: July 10, 2017, 07:17:10 AM »
Maybe they just haven't come to the conclusion yet that they don't want to sit in an office til they're 65 years old. Admittedly, at 25 I wasn't aware of early retirement. It took a few years of working to realize that work kinda sucks and I'd rather be doing what I want to do, not what I'm told to do..

When I was a 25 year old engineer I hadn't heard of early retirement, enjoyed my job enough that I thought I wanted to do it until I couldn't operate my graphic calculator, and figured that as my wages were going to rise over time it may sense to over spend on (low cost) credit to smooth out my fun curve over time.

I'm not saying that this was fantastic logic, but I did what made sense with the information I had at the time.
I'm amazed at the number of engineers in my office who only contribute up to the company match on their 401k (6%) and call it a day. New car, expensive house, electronic gadgets... all more important to them than saving for retirement.

All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

Something else that is ridiculous is people bragging about how they're "adulting" because they bought a car. Yeah...you didn't buy a car. Your bank did. The only requirement in financing a car is having a pulse. You don't even need any credit history. Even with buying a house, there are programs for first time home buyers that only allow you to put 5% down. So that's not really a sign of success either, especially if it's more house than you can afford when kids come into play...

Prime example attached below. Not pictured: Lexus he bought brand new.

The only thing I find objectionable is the use of the term "adulting."  They choose to spend/save their money in a way that is different from how you choose to spend/save your money.  Assuming they aren't hitting you up for a loan to subsidize their lifestyle, what business of it is yours?

I would agree except they're spending money they DON'T have. They're not buying these new cars with cash like people on this forum.

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18055 on: July 10, 2017, 07:40:49 AM »
I think these days, debt is "normal" and "no big deal".

Well, somebody has to take the debt for all the non-stocks savings. If a billionaire puts 100 million into a bank account, you need 100'000 people to make 1000 debt for that savings.

I don't think that's how it works...

Where do you think he got the 100 million from in the first place?

On a simplistic level it seems like there could be a direct 1-to-1 relation but considering the government can print money I don't think it shouldn't net out to 0. But I admit I don't really have a good enough understanding of currency/economics to feel confident either way.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18056 on: July 10, 2017, 07:57:40 AM »
On a simplistic level it seems like there could be a direct 1-to-1 relation but considering the government can print money I don't think it shouldn't net out to 0. But I admit I don't really have a good enough understanding of currency/economics to feel confident either way.
The ratio is much, much less than 1 to 1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking



LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18057 on: July 10, 2017, 08:25:57 AM »
I think these days, debt is "normal" and "no big deal".

Well, somebody has to take the debt for all the non-stocks savings. If a billionaire puts 100 million into a bank account, you need 100'000 people to make 1000 debt for that savings.

I don't think that's how it works...

This is not how it works, this is how it stands on the balance sheet ;)

For every dollar avings there has to be a dollar debt, and for every dollar debt there has to be a dollar savings. This is how the system works.

If you give 100 dollar to the bank, then you have 100 dollar savings and the bank has 100 dollar debt towards you.
If you take a loan you have 100 dollar debt towards the bank and the bank has 100 dollar "savings", just with another word. In German it is "Forderung", but I don't know the English term. (*look at leo.org* probably one of those: accounts receivable [FINAN.] debt claim [FINAN.])

If a bank "creates" money, they put it on balance account 1234 "money created" on one side and "loans given" 2345 on the other side, so that it zeroes out.

If they "destroy" money, then they get money from you, lower the "loans given" line in the balance sheet and - both sides must have the same result, double accounting - also the line "money created". 


btw private banks create way more money then central banks.

The problem with the system is that even the "strict" regulations only require 10% reserve - so a bank can create 10 dollar for loans for every dollar they have. And they try to keep close to that limit to make maximum profit.

One bank alone could be stable (or at least easiy "saved"), but the banks are loaning each other too - and the inter-banking market was where it crashed big last time, because they were trading with those house thingies nobody understood, too.

You see, if one bank cannot pay its debt, the other banks have to lower their "loans given" line. And they must decrease the other side of the balance sheet accordingly. They can do that by lowering their reserve until they hit the ceiling - in this case the 10%. And then?
Then they have to get money, at whatever cost. So they want the money back they have loaned to other banks who also just have decreased their reserve.

You know that picture with the snowball and a mountain? 

This is when a bank is "system relevant" - when the removing of it out of the system is the snowball thats starts the burying of the whole valley. Too big to fail.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18058 on: July 10, 2017, 12:15:01 PM »
On a simplistic level it seems like there could be a direct 1-to-1 relation but considering the government can print money I don't think it shouldn't net out to 0. But I admit I don't really have a good enough understanding of currency/economics to feel confident either way.
The ratio is much, much less than 1 to 1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking

Government "printing" these days is mostly issuance of bonds, which are (you guessed it) debt.


Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18059 on: July 10, 2017, 03:38:27 PM »
Maybe they just haven't come to the conclusion yet that they don't want to sit in an office til they're 65 years old. Admittedly, at 25 I wasn't aware of early retirement. It took a few years of working to realize that work kinda sucks and I'd rather be doing what I want to do, not what I'm told to do..

When I was a 25 year old engineer I hadn't heard of early retirement, enjoyed my job enough that I thought I wanted to do it until I couldn't operate my graphic calculator, and figured that as my wages were going to rise over time it may sense to over spend on (low cost) credit to smooth out my fun curve over time.

I'm not saying that this was fantastic logic, but I did what made sense with the information I had at the time.
I'm amazed at the number of engineers in my office who only contribute up to the company match on their 401k (6%) and call it a day. New car, expensive house, electronic gadgets... all more important to them than saving for retirement.

All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

Something else that is ridiculous is people bragging about how they're "adulting" because they bought a car. Yeah...you didn't buy a car. Your bank did. The only requirement in financing a car is having a pulse. You don't even need any credit history. Even with buying a house, there are programs for first time home buyers that only allow you to put 5% down. So that's not really a sign of success either, especially if it's more house than you can afford when kids come into play...

Prime example attached below. Not pictured: Lexus he bought brand new.

The only thing I find objectionable is the use of the term "adulting."  They choose to spend/save their money in a way that is different from how you choose to spend/save your money.  Assuming they aren't hitting you up for a loan to subsidize their lifestyle, what business of it is yours?

These folks might not be directly asking you for a loan, but what will happen when they get too old to work and they're retirement doesn't pencil out? They'll become a burden to society.

And secondly, it's perfectly fair to judge other people's choices. It might not be your business to force them to make different choices, but you can weigh the merits of their decisions.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18060 on: July 10, 2017, 05:10:34 PM »
I'd just like to personally register my disdain for the term "adulting." I don't understand how being a semi-responsible adult (when one is you know, of adult age) became this thing you have to call attention to and be congratulated for. I'm not "adulting" when I go to the dentist or call customer service about my bill, I'm just an adult. I blame helicopter parents who have never let their kids do anything on their own.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18061 on: July 10, 2017, 09:52:16 PM »
Colleague:  ďI thought I might save up some money while Iím over here, but Iím only going to be here for two years, so I think I should just travel and live it up.Ē

Um...you get free accommodation and a good salary.  You can do both?  I certainly am.  (Travel and saving, I mean.  I donít know what exactly she means by living it up, but maybe that factor is the reason she canít save.)

plainjane

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18062 on: July 11, 2017, 06:57:19 AM »
Something else that is ridiculous is people bragging about how they're "adulting" because they bought a car.

It's funny, I use the term adulting to mean that I'm doing a thing I don't want to do, but I am doing it because I am a responsible adult and know that my future self will be happy it was done.

So making phone calls I don't want to make is adulting. Flossing is adulting. Not having a will atm is a failure to adult.
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Inaya

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18063 on: July 11, 2017, 08:19:17 AM »
I'd just like to personally register my disdain for the term "adulting." I don't understand how being a semi-responsible adult (when one is you know, of adult age) became this thing you have to call attention to and be congratulated for. I'm not "adulting" when I go to the dentist or call customer service about my bill, I'm just an adult. I blame helicopter parents who have never let their kids do anything on their own.


That may be part of it. Many young adults (20s me included) are woefully unprepared for adult life. This could be from any number of factors. Helicoptering parents. Almost no life skills taught in schools. Having both parents working full time rather than having one stay at home to teach life skills--many of which are taken for granted by older generations. When you're in your 20s or even 30s and were never educated to do your taxes, find a physician, shop for insurance, etc., it feels like an accomplishment when you did it, because you also had to teach yourself how to do it.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18064 on: July 11, 2017, 08:24:32 AM »
Colleague:  ďI thought I might save up some money while Iím over here, but Iím only going to be here for two years, so I think I should just travel and live it up.Ē

Um...you get free accommodation and a good salary.  You can do both?  I certainly am.  (Travel and saving, I mean.  I donít know what exactly she means by living it up, but maybe that factor is the reason she canít save.)

I always find it amusing when people think it is a binary option - you either sit at home and eat ramen noodles and scrimp and save every penny you can, or you spend with reckless abandon and YOLO all your money. There is no middle ground lol
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18065 on: July 11, 2017, 08:27:18 AM »
All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

I'm an engineer who bought a new car right after I graduated and got a job.  Shall we mock me for my excessive spending?  I also didn't have a car to begin with, and moved to an area with basically no public transport.  Sure, used would have worked, but I saw no reason not to get a new car that could last me 10-15 years.  (It lasted 8 before being totaled, poor thing, but was on track for 15-20 years in terms of mileage.)  Not everyone turns 16 and immediately gets a car for driving to and from school.

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18066 on: July 11, 2017, 09:09:33 AM »
Colleague:  ďI thought I might save up some money while Iím over here, but Iím only going to be here for two years, so I think I should just travel and live it up.Ē

Um...you get free accommodation and a good salary.  You can do both?  I certainly am.  (Travel and saving, I mean.  I donít know what exactly she means by living it up, but maybe that factor is the reason she canít save.)

I always find it amusing when people think it is a binary option - you either sit at home and eat ramen noodles and scrimp and save every penny you can, or you spend with reckless abandon and YOLO all your money. There is no middle ground lol

But it's a common way of thinking. Many people told me, they don't want to count pennies or think about costs while on vacation. The result: mindless spending. I prefer to keep an eye on my spending and do a second vacation instead of "not worrying about money" for two weeks and then worry about my credit card depts when I am back home.

(To be fair, I made this mistake once. Denmark can be REALLY expensive and I just went to the ATM whenever the money was gone... took me ~6 months to recover.)


nobody123

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18067 on: July 11, 2017, 09:23:38 AM »
These folks might not be directly asking you for a loan, but what will happen when they get too old to work and they're retirement doesn't pencil out? They'll become a burden to society.

And secondly, it's perfectly fair to judge other people's choices. It might not be your business to force them to make different choices, but you can weigh the merits of their decisions.

Everyone is a burden to society to some extent.  If you have the ability to see 40 years into the future and know which particular folks are doomed to be a greater than average burden, more power to you.

My point about judging is that OP was projecting that they wouldn't be able to afford the house once kids come, and that they were somehow irresponsibly using credit because they didn't pay for a car / house in cash. 

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18068 on: July 11, 2017, 09:31:45 AM »
All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

I'm an engineer who bought a new car right after I graduated and got a job.  Shall we mock me for my excessive spending?  I also didn't have a car to begin with, and moved to an area with basically no public transport.  Sure, used would have worked, but I saw no reason not to get a new car that could last me 10-15 years.  (It lasted 8 before being totaled, poor thing, but was on track for 15-20 years in terms of mileage.)  Not everyone turns 16 and immediately gets a car for driving to and from school.

That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18069 on: July 11, 2017, 09:56:15 AM »
That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford.

Maybe, or maybe it was a 0% loan and your net worth grows faster when you're able to borrow free money and invest your cash instead..

The important thing is that you (hopefully) ran the numbers on new vs. used and determined that a new car was the financially optimal scenario, not just the emotionally satisfying one.
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

nobody123

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18070 on: July 11, 2017, 09:59:16 AM »
That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18071 on: July 11, 2017, 10:07:38 AM »
That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

I have pets for mental health reasons. But yes they could cost a good bit. I would not suggest someone to get one without having an adequate emergency fund and everything else that goes along with pet ownership.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18072 on: July 11, 2017, 10:17:15 AM »
That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!


I believe there have been multiple posts on this thread (or one of the other "Overheard" threads at least) about people buying pets on credit. They were mocked accordingly.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18073 on: July 11, 2017, 10:25:30 AM »
These folks might not be directly asking you for a loan, but what will happen when they get too old to work and they're retirement doesn't pencil out? They'll become a burden to society.

And secondly, it's perfectly fair to judge other people's choices. It might not be your business to force them to make different choices, but you can weigh the merits of their decisions.

Everyone is a burden to society to some extent.  If you have the ability to see 40 years into the future and know which particular folks are doomed to be a greater than average burden, more power to you.

I can't predict everyone who will be greater than average burden on the rest of us, but I can point to certain people and say "The odds are overwhelming that this person will be one of them."

I'm no genius, it's just not that hard to recognize someone who is that bad with finances.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18074 on: July 11, 2017, 11:02:26 AM »
I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

If a pet rock was an equivalent substitute for a dog the way a 5 year old car is pretty much the exact same thing as a brand new car, that analogy might work :-)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18075 on: July 11, 2017, 11:09:47 AM »
To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

This. Even my old machine can run the newest versions of it.
It was 12 years ago and the newest Sims game at that time (2?3? I don't know, I think it's boring.)

I actually came across The Sims and all the expansion packs for 50p each in a charity shop (except Making Magic, my favourite) and plunked down £2 for a few hours of nostalgia. Sat down and realised... It is really boring! NOTHING happens! Even with all the pets and extra items and everything. I used to spend hours playing. I can't imagine why. I think I would still enjoy The Sims 2, though, because it does go somewhere (giant genetic experiment!) but the first one was a big disappointment, especially how much I enjoyed other games I've re-played lately.

Well, obviously you are playing it incorrectly.  The right way to play The Sims is to use cheat codes to get infinite money, then carefully craft ridiculous houses and populate them with characters you design to look exactly like your friends and family.  Right?  Right?  That's not just me, right?

Stick sims that melt down into a 1x1 enclosed space until they become urns. Sell the urn for a profit.

I think you would enjoy RollerCoaster Tycoon.

The old Euthanasia Coaster or the what-angle-launches-people-the-farthest coaster. Sadly, I never played that game since Civ 3 grabbed my attention around that point.

http://imgur.com/gallery/Wxzbl

BAHAHA! as a Roller Coaster tycoon fan in my younger days this is absolutely brilliant and delightfully sinister.
The question to find out who the true mustachians are:
 
What's your blender status?
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Vindicated

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18076 on: July 11, 2017, 11:25:52 AM »

http://imgur.com/gallery/Wxzbl

BAHAHA! as a Roller Coaster tycoon fan in my younger days this is absolutely brilliant and delightfully sinister.

This makes me want to pick up Roller coaster Tycoon now.  Amazing.
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Fuerchtegott

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18077 on: July 11, 2017, 12:58:02 PM »
Yesterday i had a conversation with a co-Worker:
CW: "Boy, i have problem with my landlord. I am searching a flat for me and me girl-friend (also a co-worker). But i will have trouble to get my security deposit of 800 Euro.
Me: "Why? 800 Euro is not that much..."
CW: " Yeah, but i can't save anything.."
ME: "Why? We get the same payment (gouverment payment) .. i am living on my own and can save 40 % ... what are you doing..?!"
CW: "I go out everyday.... i nearly buy some Cocktail to go on happy hour for only 5 Euro when i walk with the dog... and i don't cook, it is just easier to get order or go out for dinner...i have nothing left at the end of the month"
Me: ....

Today i met a best friend to the above CW girlfriend:
BF: [other discussion then] Yeah, CW girlfriend never buys food, they always go out for eating ... and the did some sightseeing in Milano and went shopping the whole time and bought food...
ME: "What!? Never cooking at home?"
BF {she is frugal due to second study here in Germany}: "Nope, i can't understand that spending behavoir because she always complain of lacking money..."
Me: "..."

Later today: Same CW:
CW: "Hey, you have a good saving number, but you have a side hustle..."
Me: "Right, same amount income as main job, but this goes completly to my FI stash. I don't spend this second income.
CW: " Yeah, but you are in the highest Tax (53 % in Germany, Tax Class Six). Why don't you work anyway for the gouverment when you can life from your second job and you would have more in your pocket if it was your main job...?!"
ME: "Why should i do that? for my side job i just need 3 hours per week and my first job is 39 hours, i got 30 days of paid vacation and overhours are noted and i will receive free time... and it is save... "
CW: "[No Respones because he smokes a cigarette... he somes one pack and has diabetes from birth and has to pay his medication of his own"

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MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18078 on: July 11, 2017, 01:23:24 PM »
To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

This. Even my old machine can run the newest versions of it.
It was 12 years ago and the newest Sims game at that time (2?3? I don't know, I think it's boring.)

I actually came across The Sims and all the expansion packs for 50p each in a charity shop (except Making Magic, my favourite) and plunked down £2 for a few hours of nostalgia. Sat down and realised... It is really boring! NOTHING happens! Even with all the pets and extra items and everything. I used to spend hours playing. I can't imagine why. I think I would still enjoy The Sims 2, though, because it does go somewhere (giant genetic experiment!) but the first one was a big disappointment, especially how much I enjoyed other games I've re-played lately.

Well, obviously you are playing it incorrectly.  The right way to play The Sims is to use cheat codes to get infinite money, then carefully craft ridiculous houses and populate them with characters you design to look exactly like your friends and family.  Right?  Right?  That's not just me, right?

Stick sims that melt down into a 1x1 enclosed space until they become urns. Sell the urn for a profit.

I think you would enjoy RollerCoaster Tycoon.

The old Euthanasia Coaster or the what-angle-launches-people-the-farthest coaster. Sadly, I never played that game since Civ 3 grabbed my attention around that point.

http://imgur.com/gallery/Wxzbl

BAHAHA! as a Roller Coaster tycoon fan in my younger days this is absolutely brilliant and delightfully sinister.

Never got into Roller Coaster tycoon but I do love that you can create a 'death pit' to put customers that complain about the park.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18079 on: July 11, 2017, 07:17:25 PM »
That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

Australia's peak body of super funds ran numbers on this recently.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/retirement/2017/07/05/dog-cat-costs/

Apparently a fish is the most mustachian pet.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18080 on: July 11, 2017, 07:26:45 PM »
That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

Australia's peak body of super funds ran numbers on this recently.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/retirement/2017/07/05/dog-cat-costs/

Apparently a fish is the most mustachian pet.

Some of those numbers are really WTF.  Fish is zero boarding and zero vet... because you just let it die and buy a new one for $10 once a year?

Dog costs $250/year to replace?  So if a dog lives 10 years you are spending $2500 on your dog?  Shit, why don't I just adopt a new dog for free once a year and save on boarding and vet fees?

In the end, though, I did come to a similar cost for having a dog... I figure $30k extra savings is well worth the companionship. 

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18081 on: July 12, 2017, 06:18:46 AM »
That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

Australia's peak body of super funds ran numbers on this recently.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/retirement/2017/07/05/dog-cat-costs/

Apparently a fish is the most mustachian pet.

These numbers are ridiculous. Food is not that expensive for dogs or cats even if you buy the good stuff. And a cockatoo/budgie would be WAY more expensive than that unless you just let them eat the wrong food and die each year with no vet visits. $15 to adopt a cockatoo? That is insane. It's $400+ from a rescue, $1000+ from a breeder. But cockatoos live 80+ years so 80 x $15 = $1200, except then you're too old to get another so I don't really understand the "replace" costs. And then the cat/dog numbers make no sense if it's referring to a total adoption cost.

$0 boarding fees and grooming? Yeah...right. You can't take your bird with you to vacation. Nor can you leave it by itself, it's incredibly worse to leave a bird by itself than a dog or cat. Also, don't forget that you have to buy toys that they chew through monthly and groom their nails, beak, and feathers regularly. Plus they need to eat fresh fruit and vegetables on top of dry pellets (which aren't cheap). The cockatoo should be by far the most expensive on the list.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18082 on: July 12, 2017, 07:12:52 AM »
I always find it amusing when people think it is a binary option - you either sit at home and eat ramen noodles and scrimp and save every penny you can, or you spend with reckless abandon and YOLO all your money. There is no middle ground lol

If you think Ramen is a cheap food, you are not making it right.
Cup Ramen don't count here since they lack half the stuff.
This looks like a good Ramen
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2013/0225/20130225__130228eat-ramen.jpg

Quote
I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

Except if you are one of those people who are more happy and more healthy with a pet.

Quote
This makes me want to pick up Roller coaster Tycoon now.  Amazing.

Well you can do that. Or just get the better Theme Park for free ;)
YOu can also kill your visiters in the rollarcoaster there afaik
http://gamesnostalgia.com/en/game/theme-park

cavewoman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18083 on: July 12, 2017, 08:06:34 AM »
After 300+ pages I would think people would understand that this thread is meant for mocking.  Yes, there are always details you might not know from overhearing, or there may be instances of other people doing similar things that aren't anti-mustachian.  But if you're here, we're here to mock!  Mock on, brothers and sisters!

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18084 on: July 12, 2017, 08:14:27 AM »

http://imgur.com/gallery/Wxzbl

BAHAHA! as a Roller Coaster tycoon fan in my younger days this is absolutely brilliant and delightfully sinister.

This makes me want to pick up Roller coaster Tycoon now.  Amazing.
They have a free mobile version in the google play store.

Vindicated

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18085 on: July 12, 2017, 08:21:41 AM »

http://imgur.com/gallery/Wxzbl

BAHAHA! as a Roller Coaster tycoon fan in my younger days this is absolutely brilliant and delightfully sinister.

This makes me want to pick up Roller coaster Tycoon now.  Amazing.
They have a free mobile version in the google play store.

Thanks for the tip!  I'll have to check it out for a free nostalgia fix.
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zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18086 on: July 12, 2017, 10:51:22 AM »
If you think Ramen is a cheap food, you are not making it right.
Cup Ramen don't count here since they lack half the stuff.
This looks like a good Ramen
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2013/0225/20130225__130228eat-ramen.jpg
Damn that looks good. I've done my share of dressed-up noodle dishes over the years, but not as much lately since DW isn't a soup girl.
Makes me wanna get back to it though, maybe next time she travels solo...

Quote
Except if you are one of those people who are more happy and more healthy with a pet.

Yeah, I seriously credit my dogs with a huge positive fitness/health impact. A few years into adulthood, after a pet-free military career, I settled down and got a puppy, and my mom sent me one of Cesar Millan's books. He may be right about some things and wrong about others, but I'll defend his view on dog exercise till I die... because it's kept my dogs healthy and happy, and because it also meant I get out 2-3 times a day with virtually no exceptions for the past decade, maybe 20 minutes on a busy day but generally 30+ and often over an hour. Without dogs, my baseline activity level could easily have been more like "nothing" for much of that time, but knowing that their health and well-being depended on it was enough to get me out there. And even when I'm doing well and rocking a much more intensive fitness routine, it still adds some calorie burn and basic toning, and helps me form and maintain connections with neighbors that so many people are lacking in these times. I could say more, but I don't wanna drone on forever...
Semi-FIREd December 2017, part-time entrepreneur, lover of puppies and saltwater.

nobody123

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18087 on: July 12, 2017, 11:38:33 AM »
After 300+ pages I would think people would understand that this thread is meant for mocking.  Yes, there are always details you might not know from overhearing, or there may be instances of other people doing similar things that aren't anti-mustachian.  But if you're here, we're here to mock!  Mock on, brothers and sisters!

I am all for mocking stupidity, like folks complaining about not being able to save money but eating a $15 restaurant lunch every day.  Or idiots not saving at least to the company match in their 401k.  Or folks that park their $50K camper / boat in their driveway for 51 weeks out of the year, and then spend more money to upgrade them every other year.  This thread is a great way to express our bewilderment because calling these folks out in real life would be socially awkward at best.

However, I draw the line at the holier-than-thou attitude that if you have a mortgage or car loan you are automatically a financial trainwreck waiting to happen.  Believe it or not, not everyone wants to retire at 28 on $20K/year and drive a 15 year old Civic.  I know it's shocking to the cult here, but some people actually enjoy driving a brand new car, or living in a bigger than necessary house.  Millions of people go to work and pay their bills, retire in their 60s, and are just fine.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18088 on: July 12, 2017, 11:46:59 AM »

Quote
Except if you are one of those people who are more happy and more healthy with a pet.

Yeah, I seriously credit my dogs with a huge positive fitness/health impact.

"Price is what you pay and value is what you get."
-Warren Buffett (attributed to him)

fruitfly

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18089 on: July 12, 2017, 01:07:29 PM »
Was just gossiping with a cw about another cw who was planning to send her 4 year old kid to a local artsy fancy private school. We both knew it was expensive but I had never actually looked it up. It STARTS at $24,000 a year. FOR PRESCHOOL. I did the math and figured if your kid went through Pre-K to high school it would cost $400,200. And then...college?!

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18090 on: July 12, 2017, 01:10:43 PM »
Was just gossiping with a cw about another cw who was planning to send her 4 year old kid to a local artsy fancy private school. We both knew it was expensive but I had never actually looked it up. It STARTS at $24,000 a year. FOR PRESCHOOL. I did the math and figured if your kid went through Pre-K to high school it would cost $400,200. And then...college?!

People do like to say that it takes a $1 million to raise a kid. I tried to argue about this with the in-laws and regretted it. They claimed it takes a million to do it "right".

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18091 on: July 12, 2017, 01:13:04 PM »
Was just gossiping with a cw about another cw who was planning to send her 4 year old kid to a local artsy fancy private school. We both knew it was expensive but I had never actually looked it up. It STARTS at $24,000 a year. FOR PRESCHOOL. I did the math and figured if your kid went through Pre-K to high school it would cost $400,200. And then...college?!

People do like to say that it takes a $1 million to raise a kid. I tried to argue about this with the in-laws and regretted it. They claimed it takes a million to do it "right".

So everyone below the income level that allows that are raising their kids wrong?  I would be pissed if someone tried to say that to me.

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18092 on: July 12, 2017, 01:19:15 PM »
Was just gossiping with a cw about another cw who was planning to send her 4 year old kid to a local artsy fancy private school. We both knew it was expensive but I had never actually looked it up. It STARTS at $24,000 a year. FOR PRESCHOOL. I did the math and figured if your kid went through Pre-K to high school it would cost $400,200. And then...college?!

People do like to say that it takes a $1 million to raise a kid. I tried to argue about this with the in-laws and regretted it. They claimed it takes a million to do it "right".

So everyone below the income level that allows that are raising their kids wrong?  I would be pissed if someone tried to say that to me.

Basically. I should have been more pissed because they implied that I wasn't raised "right". They sent their kids to private school, got them brand new cars at 16, paid for college, paid for all kinds of graduation parties, etc. They even said the houses they have bought were FOR the kids, which I get to a point, but one of the houses was ridiculously huge and they had to sell it because they couldn't afford it. My boyfriend said he never wanted the new car, the big house, or even the private school education.

Nangirl17

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18093 on: July 12, 2017, 01:38:50 PM »
We are a small business discussing going to direct deposit with our monthly paycheques.

At a meeting today, one of my co-workers objects because the paydate would be a few days after the beginning of the month (as opposed to the last day of the month), and since her mortgage is due on the first day of the month, she would be short. We discussed fronting half of the paycheque for a month, but she says she'll just be in the same predicament the next month. She lives "hand to mouth" on a >100K year.

I didn't know what to say because "you aren't managing your money very well" is rude, yet there it is.


fruitfly

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18094 on: July 12, 2017, 01:43:01 PM »
It's funny because I come from a rich upbringing with all that stuff - fancy school, new cars, huge house, etc. etc (all the money was lost when I was 13 or so). Facebook assures me that the majority of people who shared this sort of "right" upbringing with me are completely basic and in no way amazing. Many of them seem completely stupid and most are broke (or deeply in debt I assume from the disconnect in their lifestyle purchases and their occupations). So I'm not sure what the "right" sort of upbringing did for them.

Nangirl17, the mind boggles! I hope you gave her A Look.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 01:44:33 PM by tikimama »

Nangirl17

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18095 on: July 12, 2017, 02:31:14 PM »

Nangirl17, the mind boggles! I hope you gave her A Look.

I think the look I had was one of agape amazement - here is a very intelligent, highly respected, motivated and hardworking person who is very much "on top" of her job in every way... the incongruence amazes me.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18096 on: July 12, 2017, 02:44:16 PM »
Was just gossiping with a cw about another cw who was planning to send her 4 year old kid to a local artsy fancy private school. We both knew it was expensive but I had never actually looked it up. It STARTS at $24,000 a year. FOR PRESCHOOL. I did the math and figured if your kid went through Pre-K to high school it would cost $400,200. And then...college?!

People do like to say that it takes a $1 million to raise a kid. I tried to argue about this with the in-laws and regretted it. They claimed it takes a million to do it "right".

My sister and her husband have a similar point of view. They are spending a ton of their kids, which whatever as it is their money and they earn enough to afford it while saving up for their college education and their retirement. What I find funny is that when I mention costs as one of the reasons why I don't plan on having a kid my sister gets all huffy about how "it doesn't cost all that much if you do it right!" Um, sis you were just talking about how spending ___ for ___ isn't a big deal.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18097 on: July 12, 2017, 03:05:09 PM »
It's funny because I come from a rich upbringing with all that stuff - fancy school, new cars, huge house, etc. etc (all the money was lost when I was 13 or so). Facebook assures me that the majority of people who shared this sort of "right" upbringing with me are completely basic and in no way amazing. Many of them seem completely stupid and most are broke (or deeply in debt I assume from the disconnect in their lifestyle purchases and their occupations). So I'm not sure what the "right" sort of upbringing did for them.

This. I went to a fancy private school. The distribution of basic to amazing was pretty much the same as everywhere else in life. Sure, paying £10k a year plus means if your child is a bit thick they'll be hauled up to get mostly As instead of mostly Bs, but if you just ignore them outside school they'll still be a bit thick when they leave. It's a guilt complex for the parents, it's not for the children. You work too much to see/care about your children so you send them to an expensive school "for the children's benefit" so you work more to afford the school so you see them less. Then you wonder why they grow up with mental health problems. The case for a good half of my fellow pupils.

With This Herring

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18098 on: July 12, 2017, 10:34:11 PM »
Australia's peak body of super funds ran numbers on this recently.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/retirement/2017/07/05/dog-cat-costs/

Apparently a fish is the most mustachian pet.

These numbers are ridiculous. Food is not that expensive for dogs or cats even if you buy the good stuff. And a cockatoo/budgie would be WAY more expensive than that unless you just let them eat the wrong food and die each year with no vet visits. $15 to adopt a cockatoo? That is insane. It's $400+ from a rescue, $1000+ from a breeder. But cockatoos live 80+ years so 80 x $15 = $1200, except then you're too old to get another so I don't really understand the "replace" costs. And then the cat/dog numbers make no sense if it's referring to a total adoption cost.

$0 boarding fees and grooming? Yeah...right. You can't take your bird with you to vacation. Nor can you leave it by itself, it's incredibly worse to leave a bird by itself than a dog or cat. Also, don't forget that you have to buy toys that they chew through monthly and groom their nails, beak, and feathers regularly. Plus they need to eat fresh fruit and vegetables on top of dry pellets (which aren't cheap). The cockatoo should be by far the most expensive on the list.

I wouldn't tend to trust any infographic where it seems "we don't know and couldn't be bothered to find out" categories were set as $0 and "health producst [sic]" are not clarified.  My guess is that the "buy/replace annual" is meant to be some sort of depreciation number.  Really, it seems that no research or proofreading was put into this picture.

Maybe the joke is with a cockatoo you won't dare to travel, and he won't let anyone but you do trimmings, so no boarding or grooming costs! (kidding)




Overheard from coworker:
Client forgot to take inventory at fiscal year-end of June 30 AGAIN.  Client has owned business for two decades; fiscal year end of this business has never changed. Coworker reminds Client WEEKLY leading up to June 30.  Client ran into Coworker at social function yesterday, says "Oh!  Didn't I need to do something for you?" and only then remembers inventory.  Well, Coworker says Client will probably actually get around to tallying inventory in a couple weeks.  *sigh*
Go soak your beans.  You know you keep forgetting.

Spawnstache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18099 on: July 13, 2017, 01:22:18 AM »
Was just gossiping with a cw about another cw who was planning to send her 4 year old kid to a local artsy fancy private school. We both knew it was expensive but I had never actually looked it up. It STARTS at $24,000 a year. FOR PRESCHOOL. I did the math and figured if your kid went through Pre-K to high school it would cost $400,200. And then...college?!

People do like to say that it takes a $1 million to raise a kid. I tried to argue about this with the in-laws and regretted it. They claimed it takes a million to do it "right".

So everyone below the income level that allows that are raising their kids wrong?  I would be pissed if someone tried to say that to me.

Basically. I should have been more pissed because they implied that I wasn't raised "right". They sent their kids to private school, got them brand new cars at 16, paid for college, paid for all kinds of graduation parties, etc. They even said the houses they have bought were FOR the kids, which I get to a point, but one of the houses was ridiculously huge and they had to sell it because they couldn't afford it. My boyfriend said he never wanted the new car, the big house, or even the private school education.

On a side note we say the same thing about needing a million to raise a kid in Sweden. But using SEK instead of dollars, which roughly translates to $120k. Probably a round and even number high enough to sound intimitading. And yes, with swedish salaries and taxes even being a SEK millionaire has a certain ring to it.