Overheard at Work

[plainjane]

Something else that is ridiculous is people bragging about how they're "adulting" because they bought a car.

It's funny, I use the term adulting to mean that I'm doing a thing I don't want to do, but I am doing it because I am a responsible adult and know that my future self will be happy it was done.

So making phone calls I don't want to make is adulting. Flossing is adulting. Not having a will atm is a failure to adult.

[Inaya]

I'd just like to personally register my disdain for the term "adulting." I don't understand how being a semi-responsible adult (when one is you know, of adult age) became this thing you have to call attention to and be congratulated for. I'm not "adulting" when I go to the dentist or call customer service about my bill, I'm just an adult. I blame helicopter parents who have never let their kids do anything on their own.

That may be part of it. Many young adults (20s me included) are woefully unprepared for adult life. This could be from any number of factors. Helicoptering parents. Almost no life skills taught in schools. Having both parents working full time rather than having one stay at home to teach life skills--many of which are taken for granted by older generations. When you're in your 20s or even 30s and were never educated to do your taxes, find a physician, shop for insurance, etc., it feels like an accomplishment when you did it, because you also had to teach yourself how to do it.

[cheapass]

Colleague:  “I thought I might save up some money while I’m over here, but I’m only going to be here for two years, so I think I should just travel and live it up.”

Um...you get free accommodation and a good salary.  You can do both?  I certainly am.  (Travel and saving, I mean.  I don’t know what exactly she means by living it up, but maybe that factor is the reason she can’t save.)

I always find it amusing when people think it is a binary option - you either sit at home and eat ramen noodles and scrimp and save every penny you can, or you spend with reckless abandon and YOLO all your money. There is no middle ground lol

[SweetTPie]

All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

I'm an engineer who bought a new car right after I graduated and got a job.  Shall we mock me for my excessive spending?  I also didn't have a car to begin with, and moved to an area with basically no public transport.  Sure, used would have worked, but I saw no reason not to get a new car that could last me 10-15 years.  (It lasted 8 before being totaled, poor thing, but was on track for 15-20 years in terms of mileage.)  Not everyone turns 16 and immediately gets a car for driving to and from school.

[Feivel2000]

Colleague:  “I thought I might save up some money while I’m over here, but I’m only going to be here for two years, so I think I should just travel and live it up.”

Um...you get free accommodation and a good salary.  You can do both?  I certainly am.  (Travel and saving, I mean.  I don’t know what exactly she means by living it up, but maybe that factor is the reason she can’t save.)

I always find it amusing when people think it is a binary option - you either sit at home and eat ramen noodles and scrimp and save every penny you can, or you spend with reckless abandon and YOLO all your money. There is no middle ground lol

But it's a common way of thinking. Many people told me, they don't want to count pennies or think about costs while on vacation. The result: mindless spending. I prefer to keep an eye on my spending and do a second vacation instead of "not worrying about money" for two weeks and then worry about my credit card depts when I am back home.

(To be fair, I made this mistake once. Denmark can be REALLY expensive and I just went to the ATM whenever the money was gone... took me ~6 months to recover.)

[nobody123]

These folks might not be directly asking you for a loan, but what will happen when they get too old to work and they're retirement doesn't pencil out? They'll become a burden to society.

And secondly, it's perfectly fair to judge other people's choices. It might not be your business to force them to make different choices, but you can weigh the merits of their decisions.

Everyone is a burden to society to some extent.  If you have the ability to see 40 years into the future and know which particular folks are doomed to be a greater than average burden, more power to you.

My point about judging is that OP was projecting that they wouldn't be able to afford the house once kids come, and that they were somehow irresponsibly using credit because they didn't pay for a car / house in cash. 

[marielle]

All my engineering classmates are like this and that's with being in the workforce 3 years or less. Pretty much everyone bought a new car or a slightly used fancy sports car/truck. Some bought a car immediately after graduation. One guy bought a house immediately after graduation! I'm still driving the used car I got in high school.

I'm an engineer who bought a new car right after I graduated and got a job.  Shall we mock me for my excessive spending?  I also didn't have a car to begin with, and moved to an area with basically no public transport.  Sure, used would have worked, but I saw no reason not to get a new car that could last me 10-15 years.  (It lasted 8 before being totaled, poor thing, but was on track for 15-20 years in terms of mileage.)  Not everyone turns 16 and immediately gets a car for driving to and from school.

That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

[cheapass]

That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford.

Maybe, or maybe it was a 0% loan and your net worth grows faster when you're able to borrow free money and invest your cash instead..

The important thing is that you (hopefully) ran the numbers on new vs. used and determined that a new car was the financially optimal scenario, not just the emotionally satisfying one.

[nobody123]

That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

[marielle]

That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

I have pets for mental health reasons. But yes they could cost a good bit. I would not suggest someone to get one without having an adequate emergency fund and everything else that goes along with pet ownership.

[Inaya]

That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

I believe there have been multiple posts on this thread (or one of the other "Overheard" threads at least) about people buying pets on credit. They were mocked accordingly.

[SwordGuy]

These folks might not be directly asking you for a loan, but what will happen when they get too old to work and they're retirement doesn't pencil out? They'll become a burden to society.

And secondly, it's perfectly fair to judge other people's choices. It might not be your business to force them to make different choices, but you can weigh the merits of their decisions.

Everyone is a burden to society to some extent.  If you have the ability to see 40 years into the future and know which particular folks are doomed to be a greater than average burden, more power to you.

I can't predict everyone who will be greater than average burden on the rest of us, but I can point to certain people and say "The odds are overwhelming that this person will be one of them."

I'm no genius, it's just not that hard to recognize someone who is that bad with finances.

[RyanAtTanagra]

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

If a pet rock was an equivalent substitute for a dog the way a 5 year old car is pretty much the exact same thing as a brand new car, that analogy might work :-)

[Cromacster]

To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

This. Even my old machine can run the newest versions of it.

It was 12 years ago and the newest Sims game at that time (2?3? I don't know, I think it's boring.)

I actually came across The Sims and all the expansion packs for 50p each in a charity shop (except Making Magic, my favourite) and plunked down £2 for a few hours of nostalgia. Sat down and realised... It is really boring! NOTHING happens! Even with all the pets and extra items and everything. I used to spend hours playing. I can't imagine why. I think I would still enjoy The Sims 2, though, because it does go somewhere (giant genetic experiment!) but the first one was a big disappointment, especially how much I enjoyed other games I've re-played lately.

Well, obviously you are playing it incorrectly.  The right way to play The Sims is to use cheat codes to get infinite money, then carefully craft ridiculous houses and populate them with characters you design to look exactly like your friends and family.  Right?  Right?  That's not just me, right?

Stick sims that melt down into a 1x1 enclosed space until they become urns. Sell the urn for a profit.

I think you would enjoy RollerCoaster Tycoon.

The old Euthanasia Coaster or the what-angle-launches-people-the-farthest coaster. Sadly, I never played that game since Civ 3 grabbed my attention around that point.

http://imgur.com/gallery/Wxzbl

BAHAHA! as a Roller Coaster tycoon fan in my younger days this is absolutely brilliant and delightfully sinister.

[Vindicated]

http://imgur.com/gallery/Wxzbl

BAHAHA! as a Roller Coaster tycoon fan in my younger days this is absolutely brilliant and delightfully sinister.

This makes me want to pick up Roller coaster Tycoon now.  Amazing.

[Fuerchtegott]

Yesterday i had a conversation with a co-Worker:
CW: "Boy, i have problem with my landlord. I am searching a flat for me and me girl-friend (also a co-worker). But i will have trouble to get my security deposit of 800 Euro.
Me: "Why? 800 Euro is not that much..."
CW: " Yeah, but i can't save anything.."
ME: "Why? We get the same payment (gouverment payment) .. i am living on my own and can save 40 % ... what are you doing..?!"
CW: "I go out everyday.... i nearly buy some Cocktail to go on happy hour for only 5 Euro when i walk with the dog... and i don't cook, it is just easier to get order or go out for dinner...i have nothing left at the end of the month"
Me: ....

Today i met a best friend to the above CW girlfriend:
BF: [other discussion then] Yeah, CW girlfriend never buys food, they always go out for eating ... and the did some sightseeing in Milano and went shopping the whole time and bought food...
ME: "What!? Never cooking at home?"
BF {she is frugal due to second study here in Germany}: "Nope, i can't understand that spending behavoir because she always complain of lacking money..."
Me: "..."

Later today: Same CW:
CW: "Hey, you have a good saving number, but you have a side hustle..."
Me: "Right, same amount income as main job, but this goes completly to my FI stash. I don't spend this second income.
CW: " Yeah, but you are in the highest Tax (53 % in Germany, Tax Class Six). Why don't you work anyway for the gouverment when you can life from your second job and you would have more in your pocket if it was your main job...?!"
ME: "Why should i do that? for my side job i just need 3 hours per week and my first job is 39 hours, i got 30 days of paid vacation and overhours are noted and i will receive free time... and it is save... "
CW: "[No Respones because he smokes a cigarette... he somes one pack and has diabetes from birth and has to pay his medication of his own"

Gesendet von meinem KIW-L21 mit Tapatalk

[MgoSam]

To play THE SIMS?!?!?! Wow. My old junk laptop played it just fine.

This. Even my old machine can run the newest versions of it.

It was 12 years ago and the newest Sims game at that time (2?3? I don't know, I think it's boring.)

I actually came across The Sims and all the expansion packs for 50p each in a charity shop (except Making Magic, my favourite) and plunked down £2 for a few hours of nostalgia. Sat down and realised... It is really boring! NOTHING happens! Even with all the pets and extra items and everything. I used to spend hours playing. I can't imagine why. I think I would still enjoy The Sims 2, though, because it does go somewhere (giant genetic experiment!) but the first one was a big disappointment, especially how much I enjoyed other games I've re-played lately.

Well, obviously you are playing it incorrectly.  The right way to play The Sims is to use cheat codes to get infinite money, then carefully craft ridiculous houses and populate them with characters you design to look exactly like your friends and family.  Right?  Right?  That's not just me, right?

Stick sims that melt down into a 1x1 enclosed space until they become urns. Sell the urn for a profit.

I think you would enjoy RollerCoaster Tycoon.

The old Euthanasia Coaster or the what-angle-launches-people-the-farthest coaster. Sadly, I never played that game since Civ 3 grabbed my attention around that point.

http://imgur.com/gallery/Wxzbl

BAHAHA! as a Roller Coaster tycoon fan in my younger days this is absolutely brilliant and delightfully sinister.

Never got into Roller Coaster tycoon but I do love that you can create a 'death pit' to put customers that complain about the park.

[mustachepungoeshere]

That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

Australia's peak body of super funds ran numbers on this recently.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/retirement/2017/07/05/dog-cat-costs/

Apparently a fish is the most mustachian pet.

[dragoncar]

That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

Australia's peak body of super funds ran numbers on this recently.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/retirement/2017/07/05/dog-cat-costs/

Apparently a fish is the most mustachian pet.

Some of those numbers are really WTF.  Fish is zero boarding and zero vet... because you just let it die and buy a new one for $10 once a year?

Dog costs $250/year to replace?  So if a dog lives 10 years you are spending $2500 on your dog?  Shit, why don't I just adopt a new dog for free once a year and save on boarding and vet fees?

In the end, though, I did come to a similar cost for having a dog... I figure $30k extra savings is well worth the companionship. 

[marielle]

That's kinda what these threads are for. If you bought it with cash, kudos to you! That's great. If you had to get a loan and didn't have the cash outright, then sorry but you simply got more car than you could afford. Sure it turned out fine for you and most other people, but there are also thousands who have screwed themselves because they bought a depreciating asset on credit then lost their jobs or couldn't afford the payments.

Also, pretty much every engineer I am referring to here already had a car. Some of them have three cars and keep all of them. One guy has FIVE running cars.

I thought this was all a given considering the forum we are on...

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

Australia's peak body of super funds ran numbers on this recently.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/retirement/2017/07/05/dog-cat-costs/

Apparently a fish is the most mustachian pet.

These numbers are ridiculous. Food is not that expensive for dogs or cats even if you buy the good stuff. And a cockatoo/budgie would be WAY more expensive than that unless you just let them eat the wrong food and die each year with no vet visits. $15 to adopt a cockatoo? That is insane. It's $400+ from a rescue, $1000+ from a breeder. But cockatoos live 80+ years so 80 x $15 = $1200, except then you're too old to get another so I don't really understand the "replace" costs. And then the cat/dog numbers make no sense if it's referring to a total adoption cost.

$0 boarding fees and grooming? Yeah...right. You can't take your bird with you to vacation. Nor can you leave it by itself, it's incredibly worse to leave a bird by itself than a dog or cat. Also, don't forget that you have to buy toys that they chew through monthly and groom their nails, beak, and feathers regularly. Plus they need to eat fresh fruit and vegetables on top of dry pellets (which aren't cheap). The cockatoo should be by far the most expensive on the list.

[LennStar]

I always find it amusing when people think it is a binary option - you either sit at home and eat ramen noodles and scrimp and save every penny you can, or you spend with reckless abandon and YOLO all your money. There is no middle ground lol

If you think Ramen is a cheap food, you are not making it right.
Cup Ramen don't count here since they lack half the stuff.
This looks like a good Ramen
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2013/0225/20130225__130228eat-ramen.jpg

I think pets are stupid.  They are a depreciating asset and do nothing but lengthen your time to retirement.  Let's mock everyone who owns a pet!  Especially folks that have more than one!

Except if you are one of those people who are more happy and more healthy with a pet.

This makes me want to pick up Roller coaster Tycoon now.  Amazing.

Well you can do that. Or just get the better Theme Park for free ;)
YOu can also kill your visiters in the rollarcoaster there afaik
http://gamesnostalgia.com/en/game/theme-park

[cavewoman]

After 300+ pages I would think people would understand that this thread is meant for mocking.  Yes, there are always details you might not know from overhearing, or there may be instances of other people doing similar things that aren't anti-mustachian.  But if you're here, we're here to mock!  Mock on, brothers and sisters!

[JordanOfGilead]

http://imgur.com/gallery/Wxzbl

BAHAHA! as a Roller Coaster tycoon fan in my younger days this is absolutely brilliant and delightfully sinister.

This makes me want to pick up Roller coaster Tycoon now.  Amazing.

They have a free mobile version in the google play store.

[Vindicated]

http://imgur.com/gallery/Wxzbl

BAHAHA! as a Roller Coaster tycoon fan in my younger days this is absolutely brilliant and delightfully sinister.

This makes me want to pick up Roller coaster Tycoon now.  Amazing.

They have a free mobile version in the google play store.

Thanks for the tip!  I'll have to check it out for a free nostalgia fix.

[zephyr911]

If you think Ramen is a cheap food, you are not making it right.
Cup Ramen don't count here since they lack half the stuff.
This looks like a good Ramen
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2013/0225/20130225__130228eat-ramen.jpg

Damn that looks good. I've done my share of dressed-up noodle dishes over the years, but not as much lately since DW isn't a soup girl.
Makes me wanna get back to it though, maybe next time she travels solo...

Except if you are one of those people who are more happy and more healthy with a pet.

Yeah, I seriously credit my dogs with a huge positive fitness/health impact. A few years into adulthood, after a pet-free military career, I settled down and got a puppy, and my mom sent me one of Cesar Millan's books. He may be right about some things and wrong about others, but I'll defend his view on dog exercise till I die... because it's kept my dogs healthy and happy, and because it also meant I get out 2-3 times a day with virtually no exceptions for the past decade, maybe 20 minutes on a busy day but generally 30+ and often over an hour. Without dogs, my baseline activity level could easily have been more like "nothing" for much of that time, but knowing that their health and well-being depended on it was enough to get me out there. And even when I'm doing well and rocking a much more intensive fitness routine, it still adds some calorie burn and basic toning, and helps me form and maintain connections with neighbors that so many people are lacking in these times. I could say more, but I don't wanna drone on forever...

[nobody123]

After 300+ pages I would think people would understand that this thread is meant for mocking.  Yes, there are always details you might not know from overhearing, or there may be instances of other people doing similar things that aren't anti-mustachian.  But if you're here, we're here to mock!  Mock on, brothers and sisters!

I am all for mocking stupidity, like folks complaining about not being able to save money but eating a $15 restaurant lunch every day.  Or idiots not saving at least to the company match in their 401k.  Or folks that park their $50K camper / boat in their driveway for 51 weeks out of the year, and then spend more money to upgrade them every other year.  This thread is a great way to express our bewilderment because calling these folks out in real life would be socially awkward at best.

However, I draw the line at the holier-than-thou attitude that if you have a mortgage or car loan you are automatically a financial trainwreck waiting to happen.  Believe it or not, not everyone wants to retire at 28 on $20K/year and drive a 15 year old Civic.  I know it's shocking to the cult here, but some people actually enjoy driving a brand new car, or living in a bigger than necessary house.  Millions of people go to work and pay their bills, retire in their 60s, and are just fine.

[MgoSam]

Except if you are one of those people who are more happy and more healthy with a pet.

Yeah, I seriously credit my dogs with a huge positive fitness/health impact.

"Price is what you pay and value is what you get."
-Warren Buffett (attributed to him)

[fruitfly]

Was just gossiping with a cw about another cw who was planning to send her 4 year old kid to a local artsy fancy private school. We both knew it was expensive but I had never actually looked it up. It STARTS at $24,000 a year. FOR PRESCHOOL. I did the math and figured if your kid went through Pre-K to high school it would cost $400,200. And then...college?!

[marielle]

Was just gossiping with a cw about another cw who was planning to send her 4 year old kid to a local artsy fancy private school. We both knew it was expensive but I had never actually looked it up. It STARTS at $24,000 a year. FOR PRESCHOOL. I did the math and figured if your kid went through Pre-K to high school it would cost $400,200. And then...college?!

People do like to say that it takes a $1 million to raise a kid. I tried to argue about this with the in-laws and regretted it. They claimed it takes a million to do it "right".

[RyanAtTanagra]

Was just gossiping with a cw about another cw who was planning to send her 4 year old kid to a local artsy fancy private school. We both knew it was expensive but I had never actually looked it up. It STARTS at $24,000 a year. FOR PRESCHOOL. I did the math and figured if your kid went through Pre-K to high school it would cost $400,200. And then...college?!

People do like to say that it takes a $1 million to raise a kid. I tried to argue about this with the in-laws and regretted it. They claimed it takes a million to do it "right".

So everyone below the income level that allows that are raising their kids wrong?  I would be pissed if someone tried to say that to me.

[marielle]

Was just gossiping with a cw about another cw who was planning to send her 4 year old kid to a local artsy fancy private school. We both knew it was expensive but I had never actually looked it up. It STARTS at $24,000 a year. FOR PRESCHOOL. I did the math and figured if your kid went through Pre-K to high school it would cost $400,200. And then...college?!

People do like to say that it takes a $1 million to raise a kid. I tried to argue about this with the in-laws and regretted it. They claimed it takes a million to do it "right".

So everyone below the income level that allows that are raising their kids wrong?  I would be pissed if someone tried to say that to me.

Basically. I should have been more pissed because they implied that I wasn't raised "right". They sent their kids to private school, got them brand new cars at 16, paid for college, paid for all kinds of graduation parties, etc. They even said the houses they have bought were FOR the kids, which I get to a point, but one of the houses was ridiculously huge and they had to sell it because they couldn't afford it. My boyfriend said he never wanted the new car, the big house, or even the private school education.

[Nangirl17]

We are a small business discussing going to direct deposit with our monthly paycheques.

At a meeting today, one of my co-workers objects because the paydate would be a few days after the beginning of the month (as opposed to the last day of the month), and since her mortgage is due on the first day of the month, she would be short. We discussed fronting half of the paycheque for a month, but she says she'll just be in the same predicament the next month. She lives "hand to mouth" on a >100K year.

I didn't know what to say because "you aren't managing your money very well" is rude, yet there it is.

[fruitfly]

It's funny because I come from a rich upbringing with all that stuff - fancy school, new cars, huge house, etc. etc (all the money was lost when I was 13 or so). Facebook assures me that the majority of people who shared this sort of "right" upbringing with me are completely basic and in no way amazing. Many of them seem completely stupid and most are broke (or deeply in debt I assume from the disconnect in their lifestyle purchases and their occupations). So I'm not sure what the "right" sort of upbringing did for them.

Nangirl17, the mind boggles! I hope you gave her A Look.

[Nangirl17]

Nangirl17, the mind boggles! I hope you gave her A Look.

I think the look I had was one of agape amazement - here is a very intelligent, highly respected, motivated and hardworking person who is very much "on top" of her job in every way... the incongruence amazes me.

[MgoSam]

Was just gossiping with a cw about another cw who was planning to send her 4 year old kid to a local artsy fancy private school. We both knew it was expensive but I had never actually looked it up. It STARTS at $24,000 a year. FOR PRESCHOOL. I did the math and figured if your kid went through Pre-K to high school it would cost $400,200. And then...college?!

People do like to say that it takes a $1 million to raise a kid. I tried to argue about this with the in-laws and regretted it. They claimed it takes a million to do it "right".

My sister and her husband have a similar point of view. They are spending a ton of their kids, which whatever as it is their money and they earn enough to afford it while saving up for their college education and their retirement. What I find funny is that when I mention costs as one of the reasons why I don't plan on having a kid my sister gets all huffy about how "it doesn't cost all that much if you do it right!" Um, sis you were just talking about how spending ___ for ___ isn't a big deal.

[shelivesthedream]

It's funny because I come from a rich upbringing with all that stuff - fancy school, new cars, huge house, etc. etc (all the money was lost when I was 13 or so). Facebook assures me that the majority of people who shared this sort of "right" upbringing with me are completely basic and in no way amazing. Many of them seem completely stupid and most are broke (or deeply in debt I assume from the disconnect in their lifestyle purchases and their occupations). So I'm not sure what the "right" sort of upbringing did for them.

This. I went to a fancy private school. The distribution of basic to amazing was pretty much the same as everywhere else in life. Sure, paying £10k a year plus means if your child is a bit thick they'll be hauled up to get mostly As instead of mostly Bs, but if you just ignore them outside school they'll still be a bit thick when they leave. It's a guilt complex for the parents, it's not for the children. You work too much to see/care about your children so you send them to an expensive school "for the children's benefit" so you work more to afford the school so you see them less. Then you wonder why they grow up with mental health problems. The case for a good half of my fellow pupils.

[With This Herring]

Australia's peak body of super funds ran numbers on this recently.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/retirement/2017/07/05/dog-cat-costs/

Apparently a fish is the most mustachian pet.

These numbers are ridiculous. Food is not that expensive for dogs or cats even if you buy the good stuff. And a cockatoo/budgie would be WAY more expensive than that unless you just let them eat the wrong food and die each year with no vet visits. $15 to adopt a cockatoo? That is insane. It's $400+ from a rescue, $1000+ from a breeder. But cockatoos live 80+ years so 80 x $15 = $1200, except then you're too old to get another so I don't really understand the "replace" costs. And then the cat/dog numbers make no sense if it's referring to a total adoption cost.

$0 boarding fees and grooming? Yeah...right. You can't take your bird with you to vacation. Nor can you leave it by itself, it's incredibly worse to leave a bird by itself than a dog or cat. Also, don't forget that you have to buy toys that they chew through monthly and groom their nails, beak, and feathers regularly. Plus they need to eat fresh fruit and vegetables on top of dry pellets (which aren't cheap). The cockatoo should be by far the most expensive on the list.

I wouldn't tend to trust any infographic where it seems "we don't know and couldn't be bothered to find out" categories were set as $0 and "health producst [sic]" are not clarified.  My guess is that the "buy/replace annual" is meant to be some sort of depreciation number.  Really, it seems that no research or proofreading was put into this picture.

Maybe the joke is with a cockatoo you won't dare to travel, and he won't let anyone but you do trimmings, so no boarding or grooming costs! (kidding)


Overheard from coworker:
Client forgot to take inventory at fiscal year-end of June 30 AGAIN.  Client has owned business for two decades; fiscal year end of this business has never changed. Coworker reminds Client WEEKLY leading up to June 30.  Client ran into Coworker at social function yesterday, says "Oh!  Didn't I need to do something for you?" and only then remembers inventory.  Well, Coworker says Client will probably actually get around to tallying inventory in a couple weeks.  *sigh*

[Spawnstache]

Was just gossiping with a cw about another cw who was planning to send her 4 year old kid to a local artsy fancy private school. We both knew it was expensive but I had never actually looked it up. It STARTS at $24,000 a year. FOR PRESCHOOL. I did the math and figured if your kid went through Pre-K to high school it would cost $400,200. And then...college?!

People do like to say that it takes a $1 million to raise a kid. I tried to argue about this with the in-laws and regretted it. They claimed it takes a million to do it "right".

So everyone below the income level that allows that are raising their kids wrong?  I would be pissed if someone tried to say that to me.

Basically. I should have been more pissed because they implied that I wasn't raised "right". They sent their kids to private school, got them brand new cars at 16, paid for college, paid for all kinds of graduation parties, etc. They even said the houses they have bought were FOR the kids, which I get to a point, but one of the houses was ridiculously huge and they had to sell it because they couldn't afford it. My boyfriend said he never wanted the new car, the big house, or even the private school education.

On a side note we say the same thing about needing a million to raise a kid in Sweden. But using SEK instead of dollars, which roughly translates to $120k. Probably a round and even number high enough to sound intimitading. And yes, with swedish salaries and taxes even being a SEK millionaire has a certain ring to it.

[Linda_Norway]

Was just gossiping with a cw about another cw who was planning to send her 4 year old kid to a local artsy fancy private school. We both knew it was expensive but I had never actually looked it up. It STARTS at $24,000 a year. FOR PRESCHOOL. I did the math and figured if your kid went through Pre-K to high school it would cost $400,200. And then...college?!

People do like to say that it takes a $1 million to raise a kid. I tried to argue about this with the in-laws and regretted it. They claimed it takes a million to do it "right".

So everyone below the income level that allows that are raising their kids wrong?  I would be pissed if someone tried to say that to me.

Basically. I should have been more pissed because they implied that I wasn't raised "right". They sent their kids to private school, got them brand new cars at 16, paid for college, paid for all kinds of graduation parties, etc. They even said the houses they have bought were FOR the kids, which I get to a point, but one of the houses was ridiculously huge and they had to sell it because they couldn't afford it. My boyfriend said he never wanted the new car, the big house, or even the private school education.

On a side note we say the same thing about needing a million to raise a kid in Sweden. But using SEK instead of dollars, which roughly translates to $120k. Probably a round and even number high enough to sound intimitading. And yes, with swedish salaries and taxes even being a SEK millionaire has a certain ring to it.

Also here in Norway we count 1 million NOK (also roughly $120 USD) for raising a child to the age of 18.

A million dollars cannot be true. That is a totally ridiculous amount of money for child. But maybe, if you hire an expensive nanny and later put the child into the most expensive schools, buy them the most expensive tools/cars/housing and pay for their study in the most expensive university then maybe it is possible?

[former player]

It's funny because I come from a rich upbringing with all that stuff - fancy school, new cars, huge house, etc. etc (all the money was lost when I was 13 or so). Facebook assures me that the majority of people who shared this sort of "right" upbringing with me are completely basic and in no way amazing. Many of them seem completely stupid and most are broke (or deeply in debt I assume from the disconnect in their lifestyle purchases and their occupations). So I'm not sure what the "right" sort of upbringing did for them.

This. I went to a fancy private school. The distribution of basic to amazing was pretty much the same as everywhere else in life. Sure, paying £10k a year plus means if your child is a bit thick they'll be hauled up to get mostly As instead of mostly Bs, but if you just ignore them outside school they'll still be a bit thick when they leave. It's a guilt complex for the parents, it's not for the children. You work too much to see/care about your children so you send them to an expensive school "for the children's benefit" so you work more to afford the school so you see them less. Then you wonder why they grow up with mental health problems. The case for a good half of my fellow pupils.

The "bit thick" kid left to the mercies of half of the UK state school system will be struggling to get 5 A to C GSCEs at 16 and 3 A level equivalents at any grade.  That's the real difference that privilege makes, not whether its As or Bs at A level.

Although the difference is more probably that your fancy private school filtered out the "bit thick" kids before they even got there.

[Dave1442397]

Also here in Norway we count 1 million NOK (also roughly $120 USD) for raising a child to the age of 18.

A million dollars cannot be true. That is a totally ridiculous amount of money for child. But maybe, if you hire an expensive nanny and later put the child into the most expensive schools, buy them the most expensive tools/cars/housing and pay for their study in the most expensive university then maybe it is possible?

If you live in a HCOL area like Manhattan and get sucked into the lifestyle, it's quite easy. Here's a quote from The Spence School, a private school for Kindergarten thru 12th Grade (end of High School) - "For the 2017-18 academic year, tuition is $49,800 for all grades K-12."

So that comes to $647,400, and that's before college. I'm sure you could add nanny/au pair costs to that too.

[firelight]

Also here in Norway we count 1 million NOK (also roughly $120 USD) for raising a child to the age of 18.

A million dollars cannot be true. That is a totally ridiculous amount of money for child. But maybe, if you hire an expensive nanny and later put the child into the most expensive schools, buy them the most expensive tools/cars/housing and pay for their study in the most expensive university then maybe it is possible?

If you live in a HCOL area like Manhattan and get sucked into the lifestyle, it's quite easy. Here's a quote from The Spence School, a private school for Kindergarten thru 12th Grade (end of High School) - "For the 2017-18 academic year, tuition is $49,800 for all grades K-12."

So that comes to $647,400, and that's before college. I'm sure you could add nanny/au pair costs to that too.

+1 for HCOL screwing up numbers. In bay area, harker charges 30k for preschool (and higher for K-12). This is before before/after school care, activities, uniforms, etc. Would be easy to hit $1M when you add in college costs.

[Lauran75]

About two weeks ago we had one of our departments moved to the same floor I am on. One of the people who work in that department has gotten delivery food for lunch *every* day. The first few times I had a delivery person come to my window, it threw me off a bit. But now when I see them, I just say, "For D?" and then point them in the right direction.

Thinking about the cost of food +delivery fee + tip is sad. What's doubly sad though is that the person ordering all this food is a *very* large man with diabetes.

[fruitfly]

The great advantage Scandinavian countries have on the US (as I understand it) is childcare, right? For a while I was paying $2500 a month for two kids under three in daycare.The it went down to $2000 and it was like, hooray! I now pay between $700 (school year) and $1200 (summer) for childcare.

[Spawnstache]

That's so true. Childcare is max $120 per month. Less if the parents have low incomes.
And same for healthcare by the way. My ex husband had some serious health problems which required complicated surgery. Complications occured, he spent two months in ICU, seven more months at the hospital before discharge. We paid $12/day...

[dogboyslim]

My kid expenses:

Daycare (until they get into school age 5ish): Averaged out to around $250 per week * 52 weeks (had to pay even if kid didn't go to keep our spot) * 3 kids * 4.5 years = $175,500.
Summer Care (wife is SAHM now so these were cut shorter): $250 per week * 16 weeks * (5 years for oldest, 3 years for middle kid, 1 year for youngest; 9 years) = $36,000
Difference in health care: $340/month vs. (29 + 34 - not adding the 34 due to wife going SAHM, but chioces were single and family) = $277 per month * 11 years so far, will be at least 17 if all kids are off health care by age 18: $59,832
Kid Activities: Swim lessons, piano lessons, soccer, football, dance, entertainment etc: about $345 a month ($115 each kid, 1st - 12th grade).  Started around the time youngest hit 1st grade, still going, so assume college it ends: $45,540
Assumed College Expenses: 100k each: $300k

Total for all three kids will be something like $616,872 not counting food/clothing, or $205,624 each.  I'm not claiming to be frugal with our kid expenses.  We spend a lot on experiential things like music and sports, but not much on clothing brands etc.

[cheapass]

That's so true. Childcare is max $120 per month. Less if the parents have low incomes.
And same for healthcare by the way. My ex husband had some serious health problems which required complicated surgery. Complications occured, he spent two months in ICU, seven more months at the hospital before discharge. We paid $12/day...

So what's the actual cost for childcare when you account for the higher taxes you pay your entire working career? Sucks for those folks who choose not to have kids or to have fewer than the average.

[prudent_one]

Colleague:  “I thought I might save up some money while I’m over here, but I’m only going to be here for two years, so I think I should just travel and live it up.”

Um...you get free accommodation and a good salary.  You can do both?  I certainly am.  (Travel and saving, I mean.  I don’t know what exactly she means by living it up, but maybe that factor is the reason she can’t save.)

Had a co-worker who was on a field assignment in a very HCOL east coast city for 8 years. During that time he had a company-paid apartment/cell/car. Plane tickets home every 3rd weekend if you wanted - if you wanted to fly somewhere else for the weekend, you only had to pay any extra cost. $60/day for other expenses (laundry, meals, etc. and if you didn't spend it all, it was yours to keep). Plus his full salary and a 20% bonus for field work.  Single. In the 2nd year of the assignment it became clear it was going to go on for many years, so he moved his "home" into a cheap apartment and sold his car (he rented one for the weekends he came back home). His out-of-pocket expenses were almost nothing - maybe 10% of his salary. It was common knowledge that long-term field assignments were pretty lucrative for the people who didn't have a lot of at-home cost.

After the 8 years he relocated back to the home office and I ran into him in the parking lot.

"So, Bob, you must have socked away a million dollars while you were on assignment. 8 years is a long time in the field but to be able to do that fairly early in your career had to give you a big leg up on savings."

"No, I spent it all."

I didn't believe it was even possible, but he really didn't save anything. He wasn't shy about telling people he lived it up like a boss the whole time.   From what others on field assignments have told me, without hardly trying you could put away $70K a year.

[coconutindex]

That's so true. Childcare is max $120 per month. Less if the parents have low incomes.
And same for healthcare by the way. My ex husband had some serious health problems which required complicated surgery. Complications occured, he spent two months in ICU, seven more months at the hospital before discharge. We paid $12/day...

So what's the actual cost for childcare when you account for the higher taxes you pay your entire working career? Sucks for those folks who choose not to have kids or to have fewer than the average.

Interesting question, and the same could be said for health care.. A welfare state funded by high taxes will of course be most beneficial for people who actually are ill. But I think generally these things balance out. We have a high income, are very healthy and plan to have few kids so while we work we'll probably subsidize a few other families. But then again we got free education which enabled us to have those high incomes.. And statistically people like us tend to live long lives (=withdraw pensions for a long time).

[Spawnstache]

That's so true. Childcare is max $120 per month. Less if the parents have low incomes.
And same for healthcare by the way. My ex husband had some serious health problems which required complicated surgery. Complications occured, he spent two months in ICU, seven more months at the hospital before discharge. We paid $12/day...

So what's the actual cost for childcare when you account for the higher taxes you pay your entire working career? Sucks for those folks who choose not to have kids or to have fewer than the average.

Yes, having no kids and being healthy makes you a loser in some ways. I guess you could beat the system with a really long college education (free), having loads of kids (preferrably sick ones) and then be really sick yourself but without dying so you can use the pension system a long time. Somehow I don't feel attracted to that kind of living.

But OVERHEARD AT WORK:
CW very happy about starting to work full time at new job because now they can buy a horse to daughter (11). Their neighbours have a horse which CW:s daughter can ride as much as she likes because their daughter (5) is to young to ride it. So basically a win-win, horse get exercise, CW:s daughter gets happy.
So why buy your own horse? Turns out daughter can't compete as much as she wants to. Right now competitions at least every other week, cost of at least $120 every time.

And by the way, new job increases commuting 1h/day.

Nope, I don't get it.