Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 5290145 times)

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11800 on: January 08, 2016, 06:10:38 AM »
The shale gas boom in the US drove down prices, so OPEC actually *increased* production to drive prices low enough to knock the newcomers out of business.  It's working to an extent--
But isn't going to work long term. Even if the current operators go bust we know the oil is there and have the technology so it's easy for another round of companies to turn the tap back on when prices increase.
Precisely, which is why OPEC is in such a pickle--if they slow their own production, prices will increase somewhat, but nowhere near as much as they might have in decades past.
Harvesting oil in any way other than pumping it from an underground reservoir is much more expensive. I'll use fake numbers to give an example.
Let's say the cost to pump one barrel of crude is $20 per barrel. Any time the market value of crude is greater than $20 per barrel, OPEC is making money.
At the same time, the cost to harvest oil from alternative methods may be in the realm of $70/barrel. When the price of oil spiked a few years ago, this made what would have otherwise been considered an expensive venture, profitable. As long as crude stayed above the (in this case, hypothetical) market value of $70/barrel, the alternative harvesting techniques were still profitable.

In the past, OPEC has come together and slowed production to maintain price stability and consistent profits for their member nations. In the late 80s, however, one or two country members of OPEC didn't follow along with the rest of the group and kept their production up while the rest of OPEC dropped their production. The result was that prices still went up, but the member nations that didn't do what they were supposed to made boatloads more than the ones that slowed production. This was viewed by the members of OPEC that followed the rules as essentially stealing from them (a big cause of some of the current tension in the middle east).

Back to the present, When north American companies started harvesting oil at $70/barrel, instead of slowing production to maintain the same market value, OPEC INCREASED production to force the prices down even lower with the idea that if the prices dropped below the operating costs, the new guys in the game would start losing money and be forced out of business.

It's started to work with one or two more expensive types of harvesting crude, but several of the "lower" cost alternative methods are still able to hang on for the time being. Keep in mind that OPEC is not hurting for money and they have plenty of crude already out of the ground sitting off of the market to help in their control of prices. They are taking a hit on profit margin now to win back the position of near exclusive petroleum supplier for the world in the future.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 06:15:35 AM by JordanOfGilead »

lithy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11801 on: January 08, 2016, 06:30:46 AM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.

nanu

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11802 on: January 08, 2016, 07:14:55 AM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I figure the odds of winning are so low, I will probably only win with divine intervention.
As such, I'm sure the good lord can get the winning ticket to me if he decides I'm worthy of winning the lottery, rather than me needing to actually buy the ticket (I'm actually an atheist, but doesn't mean I'm not optimistic)
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frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11803 on: January 08, 2016, 07:17:50 AM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I figure the odds of winning are so low, I will probably only win with divine intervention.
As such, I'm sure the good lord can get the winning ticket to me if he decides I'm worthy of winning the lottery, rather than me needing to actually buy the ticket (I'm actually an atheist, but doesn't mean I'm not optimistic)

God helps those that help themselves (by buying lottery tickets).

Anje

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11804 on: January 08, 2016, 07:31:10 AM »
The shale gas boom in the US drove down prices, so OPEC actually *increased* production to drive prices low enough to knock the newcomers out of business.  It's working to an extent--
But isn't going to work long term. Even if the current operators go bust we know the oil is there and have the technology so it's easy for another round of companies to turn the tap back on when prices increase.
Precisely, which is why OPEC is in such a pickle--if they slow their own production, prices will increase somewhat, but nowhere near as much as they might have in decades past.
But they have a huge advantage over american and european oil - ours is more expencive to get to (even for companies who just up and leave after - it's dirt expencive for those who clean up after themselves). If you have oil that's relative cheap to get to and your compeditor has oil that's expencive to get to you can earn money keeping prices lower than margin cost for the rest of the bunch. Which is what they are attempting. Now, long term they won't succeed. But that doesn't mean a lot of people will not loose their job before "long term" kicks in. Here we are reeducating en masse - noone is expecting the same levels of earnings for 10 years + and that means you got to get oil up with fewer hands and heads hired.

Of course: the irony is that low oil price = high returns in all other industries but oil. So yey OPEC.

marcela

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11805 on: January 08, 2016, 07:32:27 AM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I figure the odds of winning are so low, I will probably only win with divine intervention.
As such, I'm sure the good lord can get the winning ticket to me if he decides I'm worthy of winning the lottery, rather than me needing to actually buy the ticket (I'm actually an atheist, but doesn't mean I'm not optimistic)

God helps those that help themselves (by buying lottery tickets).

I figured the $2 I'm throwing into the office pool wasn't going to make a ton of difference to me anyway and it's coming out of my entertainment budget for the month.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11806 on: January 08, 2016, 07:36:38 AM »
A millionaire is made ten bucks at a time.  I think by logical extension you can also argue a millionaire is made two bucks at a time.

SweetTPie

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11807 on: January 08, 2016, 08:07:26 AM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I actually had this happen to me a few months ago.  It wasn't much- it was a scratch-off ticket with a prize of all of $2.  I was just picking up some trash along the sidewalk and realized it hadn't been cashed in.  A little reward for doing some cleaning up that I would have done regardless!

Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11808 on: January 08, 2016, 08:52:53 AM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I actually had this happen to me a few months ago.  It wasn't much- it was a scratch-off ticket with a prize of all of $2.  I was just picking up some trash along the sidewalk and realized it hadn't been cashed in.  A little reward for doing some cleaning up that I would have done regardless!

Even losing lotto tickets can win you money! You can find a couple of those losing scratchoff tickets and cash them in for second-chance drawing. NJ lotto's is $1 million, so there's that.

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11809 on: January 08, 2016, 09:07:12 AM »
A millionaire is made ten bucks at a time.  I think by logical extension you can also argue a millionaire is made two bucks at a time.

You make ten bucks by counting your pennies.

dsmexpat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11810 on: January 08, 2016, 09:19:43 AM »
The shale gas boom in the US drove down prices, so OPEC actually *increased* production to drive prices low enough to knock the newcomers out of business.  It's working to an extent--
But isn't going to work long term. Even if the current operators go bust we know the oil is there and have the technology so it's easy for another round of companies to turn the tap back on when prices increase.
There are huge infrastructure startup costs involved to the point that it's actually more profitable to keep it running while selling oil at a loss for a few years than to shut it all down and then rebuild it all later. Currently domestic oil producers are pouring money into a money pit in the hope that they can fill it up before they run out. Meanwhile the Saudis are at the other end, trying to make the hole deeper to so that the US oil companies give up and stop throwing money into the money pit.

If the US fracking companies go under then they'll lose a shit ton of investor money, have their skilled technicians leave the company and the area, no longer be able to maintain the infrastructure that gets the oil to the refineries, have a knockon impact on the refineries that process their oil which can in turn damage the ability to even sell the oil in the future and so forth. It's not as simple as an on/off switch which is why the Saudis are doing what they're doing. Their lower cost of production can allow them to force their rivals into bankruptcy, thus restoring their monopoly. It's almost to the point you think maybe the US gov should subsidize domestic oil production to protect the industry from this. Almost.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11811 on: January 08, 2016, 09:54:10 AM »
If the US fracking companies go under then they'll lose a shit ton of investor money, have their skilled technicians leave the company and the area, no longer be able to maintain the infrastructure that gets the oil to the refineries, have a knockon impact on the refineries that process their oil which can in turn damage the ability to even sell the oil in the future and so forth. It's not as simple as an on/off switch which is why the Saudis are doing what they're doing. Their lower cost of production can allow them to force their rivals into bankruptcy, thus restoring their monopoly. It's almost to the point you think maybe the US gov should subsidize domestic oil production to protect the industry from this. Almost.
NOOOO!!!!! LET THE FREE MARKET SOLVE IT!!!

Once upon a time I was irritated by the fact that the same people say the government should leave all to the market as long as things go good, and when things go bad, the market needs to be put at the chain.
But we are long long advaned beyond that and the motto now is "keep the profits, and when things break down, let the taxpayer pay for our errors".
There are even successful attemps at "let the taxpayer pay in advance and we will think about how much we will give back".

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11812 on: January 08, 2016, 09:59:57 AM »
If the US fracking companies go under then they'll lose a shit ton of investor money, have their skilled technicians leave the company and the area, no longer be able to maintain the infrastructure that gets the oil to the refineries, have a knockon impact on the refineries that process their oil which can in turn damage the ability to even sell the oil in the future and so forth. It's not as simple as an on/off switch which is why the Saudis are doing what they're doing. Their lower cost of production can allow them to force their rivals into bankruptcy, thus restoring their monopoly. It's almost to the point you think maybe the US gov should subsidize domestic oil production to protect the industry from this. Almost.
NOOOO!!!!! LET THE FREE MARKET SOLVE IT!!!

Once upon a time I was irritated by the fact that the same people say the government should leave all to the market as long as things go good, and when things go bad, the market needs to be put at the chain.
But we are long long advaned beyond that and the motto now is "keep the profits, and when things break down, let the taxpayer pay for our errors".
There are even successful attemps at "let the taxpayer pay in advance and we will think about how much we will give back".

Yup! Love how "free market" advocates howl about how regulations are destroying this country, but are the first ones with their hands outstretched when they need a bail-out. It's sickening how Wall Streeters actually believe that they were victimized by the collapse, I know a few people that comments about that until they were told to shut up by people that were actually hurt.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11813 on: January 08, 2016, 03:01:54 PM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I actually had this happen to me a few months ago.  It wasn't much- it was a scratch-off ticket with a prize of all of $2.  I was just picking up some trash along the sidewalk and realized it hadn't been cashed in.  A little reward for doing some cleaning up that I would have done regardless!

Me too... didn't win anything, though.  How would you feel if you won $200 million with a found lottery ticket though?  I imagine they might even trace it back to the original buyer.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11814 on: January 08, 2016, 03:06:17 PM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I actually had this happen to me a few months ago.  It wasn't much- it was a scratch-off ticket with a prize of all of $2.  I was just picking up some trash along the sidewalk and realized it hadn't been cashed in.  A little reward for doing some cleaning up that I would have done regardless!

Me too... didn't win anything, though.  How would you feel if you won $200 million with a found lottery ticket though?  I imagine they might even trace it back to the original buyer.
If I found one, I'm sure I wouldn't even check it, it'd go straight in the trash.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11815 on: January 08, 2016, 03:08:58 PM »
Yup! Love how "free market" advocates howl about how regulations are destroying this country, but are the first ones with their hands outstretched when they need a bail-out. It's sickening how Wall Streeters actually believe that they were victimized by the collapse, I know a few people that comments about that until they were told to shut up by people that were actually hurt.
Haha, Oh yes, there was an article about a subprime trader who actually DID NOT GET ANY BONUS in the crash year and had to live of his base salary 150K for a WHOLE YEAR!
IMPOSSIBLE!!!
Some people on unemployment payment offered to change places. He was to shy to take up the offer.

slugline

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11816 on: January 08, 2016, 03:19:30 PM »
Me too... didn't win anything, though.  How would you feel if you won $200 million with a found lottery ticket though?  I imagine they might even trace it back to the original buyer.

That's a very interesting scenario. If officials have any suspicions they may quiz the winner about where and when he/she bought the ticket because they do have that on record. Then there's the question of whether the retail outlet would keep surveillance footage from the date of the purchase.

I remember reading about one case where a contractor working for the lottery was busted by surveillance footage of him buying a winning ticket after he rigged an upcoming drawing. He subsequently gave the ticket to an accomplice that tried to claim the prize.

bloomability

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11817 on: January 08, 2016, 03:53:04 PM »
Yup! Love how "free market" advocates howl about how regulations are destroying this country, but are the first ones with their hands outstretched when they need a bail-out. It's sickening how Wall Streeters actually believe that they were victimized by the collapse, I know a few people that comments about that until they were told to shut up by people that were actually hurt.
Haha, Oh yes, there was an article about a subprime trader who actually DID NOT GET ANY BONUS in the crash year and had to live of his base salary 150K for a WHOLE YEAR!
IMPOSSIBLE!!!
Some people on unemployment payment offered to change places. He was to shy to take up the offer.

do you think you could link that article? I did a quick Google search looking for low bonuses on Wall Street, but only found people mad at $3.5 million bonuses.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11818 on: January 08, 2016, 03:57:31 PM »
Me too... didn't win anything, though.  How would you feel if you won $200 million with a found lottery ticket though?  I imagine they might even trace it back to the original buyer.

That's a very interesting scenario. If officials have any suspicions they may quiz the winner about where and when he/she bought the ticket because they do have that on record. Then there's the question of whether the retail outlet would keep surveillance footage from the date of the purchase.

I remember reading about one case where a contractor working for the lottery was busted by surveillance footage of him buying a winning ticket after he rigged an upcoming drawing. He subsequently gave the ticket to an accomplice that tried to claim the prize.

You'd probably know the location of the purchase since they typically advertise it on the news.  The question is would you lie about buying it?  As much as I'd like a few hundred million, I'm not sure I would.  On the other hand, if you admit you found it, thousands of people would probably come forward "claiming" the ticket.  I agree surveillance footage may or may not exist, especially if you wait a year to claim the prize.

Not sure about elsewhere, but consider the following law from PA:

Quote
Until such time as a name is imprinted or placed upon the rear portion of the lottery ticket in the area designated for name, a lottery ticket shall be owned by the physical possessor of the ticket.

So if it's unsigned, you could probably cash it without needing to lie.  Moreover, you should write your name immediately upon purchase.

Making Cookies

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11819 on: January 08, 2016, 06:25:20 PM »
http://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-announces-2016-budget-1451312691

So the Saudis are cutting benefits and raising prices to compensate for their sagging oil earnings.

As mentioned above I figure they are trying to starve the North American competition, renewables and EVs.

According to an NPR story this morn 2015 was a record year for the automakers (except for VW perhaps) and the majority of the vehicles sold were trucks and SUVs. Hybrids aren't selling well.

And then suddenly one day - fuel prices double and the light truck drivers are surprised that they can't afford the payments and fuel to get to work... 


zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11820 on: January 08, 2016, 07:08:34 PM »
"let the taxpayer pay in advance and we will think about how much we will give back".
Gee, that sounds a lot like Social Security! :)

There are huge infrastructure startup costs involved to the point that it's actually more profitable to keep it running while selling oil at a loss for a few years than to shut it all down and then rebuild it all later. Currently domestic oil producers are pouring money into a money pit in the hope that they can fill it up before they run out. Meanwhile the Saudis are at the other end, trying to make the hole deeper to so that the US oil companies give up and stop throwing money into the money pit.

If the US fracking companies go under then they'll lose a shit ton of investor money, have their skilled technicians leave the company and the area, no longer be able to maintain the infrastructure that gets the oil to the refineries, have a knockon impact on the refineries that process their oil which can in turn damage the ability to even sell the oil in the future and so forth. It's not as simple as an on/off switch which is why the Saudis are doing what they're doing. Their lower cost of production can allow them to force their rivals into bankruptcy, thus restoring their monopoly. It's almost to the point you think maybe the US gov should subsidize domestic oil production to protect the industry from this. Almost.
From what I've heard, even the Saudis are losing money at this point.  I wonder if they didn't become the victims of their own greed--oil prices were so high for so long that there was enough time to develop/refine the technology for producing more difficult oil/gas.  Once that hurdle was cleared, it permanently decreased the cost of producing that previously-uneconomic oil.

Troy McClure

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11821 on: January 08, 2016, 07:41:40 PM »
It's not as if the House of Saud doesn't know what it's doing. While it was true that flooding the market with supply was originally done to drive US fracking companies under, that is not the reason why it is continuing. In case anyone's forgotten, OPEC isn't just one happy family. In fact, members Saudi Arabia and Iran are currently fighting several proxy wars in the area. Further, the US and EU just gone done lifting sanctions on Iran allowing them to reenter the petroleum markets from which they have been long absent. Given such matters, the House of Saud, while preferring to reduce supply and increase prices is not about to give global market share to Iran to fund their proxy wars against the Saudis. As such they are continuing to lower prices as a form of economic warfare against Iran. Saudi Arabia has already begun pricing actions to lower petroleum costs in Italy and other places in the Mediterranean where Iran historically delivered its oil.

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notquitefrugal

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11822 on: January 08, 2016, 08:23:11 PM »
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I figure the odds of winning are so low, I will probably only win with divine intervention.
As such, I'm sure the good lord can get the winning ticket to me if he decides I'm worthy of winning the lottery, rather than me needing to actually buy the ticket (I'm actually an atheist, but doesn't mean I'm not optimistic)

I generally have the exact same philosophy (chance of winning is approximately the same whether you purchase or not). I've found $20 lying on the ground twice in the past year or two, why not a winning lotto ticket?

We had an office pool today and I put in $5. Figured I'd really feel like shit if the pool won and I hadn't participated. The potential of not feeling like shit was worth $5. Also mentioned something about buying my own ticket to try to beat everyone.
Coworker: "You'll share that with us, right?"
Me: "Uh, no, but I might have lunch catered."

coin

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11823 on: January 08, 2016, 10:25:24 PM »
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I figure the odds of winning are so low, I will probably only win with divine intervention.
As such, I'm sure the good lord can get the winning ticket to me if he decides I'm worthy of winning the lottery, rather than me needing to actually buy the ticket (I'm actually an atheist, but doesn't mean I'm not optimistic)

I generally have the exact same philosophy (chance of winning is approximately the same whether you purchase or not). I've found $20 lying on the ground twice in the past year or two, why not a winning lotto ticket?

We had an office pool today and I put in $5. Figured I'd really feel like shit if the pool won and I hadn't participated. The potential of not feeling like shit was worth $5. Also mentioned something about buying my own ticket to try to beat everyone.
Coworker: "You'll share that with us, right?"
Me: "Uh, no, but I might have lunch catered."

Here in Australia there was a court case by an office lottery syndicate against a guy who they figure had bought a ticket with the syndicate money, won, then kept it to himself.  They ended up losing because the guy claimed they had won... about $300, but the jackpot had been won using 'his numbers' and that was what the winning tickets numbers were.

A friend of mine is normally anti-gambling, but partakes in the office syndicate because 'let's face it, if they won and all quit their jobs, I would feel like absolute crap'.  Can't say I disagree.

At lunch at work recently a coworker said she'd love to take a few months off work to go travelling, but if she and her husband quit their jobs while she could easily find work when she got back, he might be considered too old to employ anymore and he doesn't have enough superannuation to retire (he's in his 60s).  Yet... they went business class on a trip to the UK.  I don't really understand how they can recognise a problem, but aren't doing anything to resolve it.

cerat0n1a

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11824 on: January 09, 2016, 12:46:37 AM »
A friend of mine is normally anti-gambling, but partakes in the office syndicate because 'let's face it, if they won and all quit their jobs, I would feel like absolute crap'.  Can't say I disagree.

Was talking to a friend in the US yesterday and the guys he manages at work have put together an office pool and bought quite a few tickets. He declined to take part, telling them that it was a win-win situation. If they lose, he gets to have a bit of fun with them on Monday; if they win, he never has to see them again.

former player

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11825 on: January 09, 2016, 01:18:18 AM »
A millionaire is made ten bucks at a time.  I think by logical extension you can also argue a millionaire is made two bucks at a time.

You make ten bucks by counting your pennies.
A true mustachian spends the pennies before breaking a note so that they never add up to ten bucks.
Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11826 on: January 09, 2016, 02:44:19 AM »
On lentils.

TomTX

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11827 on: January 09, 2016, 07:18:57 AM »
new one to add: CW bought a new to her 2014 F150 V8 single cab. She drives 60 miles each way every day, for I think $15 an hour or so. They wouldn't take her old car in on trade, so the dealer actually advised her to LET IT GET REPOSSESSED! it would be her 3rd repo, but shouldn't matter because she will still be paying on the truck in 7 years when her credit is "better". It's so good now her interest rate is 13% So this $22k truck is going to cost $36k by my math, plus lets say gas averages $3 a gallon x 6 gallons a day X 250 days/year x 5 years = $22,500 in GAS in a $22k truck she's paying 36k for.


wow, $59,000 for a used ford F150. it better do dirty sexual things for that price.

Not that this CW made a good decision, but seriously, why are people still assuming fuel is $3 a gallon?  From where I sit, I see a gas station that has gas at $1.79 and diesel at $2.19.  In fact, I believe we ended 2015, at least here in the states, with an average price per gallon of gasoline at $2.00.

Now, that's still stupid for that personals financial situation, and a LOT of fuel, but why does everyone on MMM have to get so judgy over people's decisions?

Figuring a ballpark $3 average for the next seven years of gasoline prices is reasonable when figuring the total cost of the vehicle. You can't just say 'oh, gas is $1.79, gonna stay cheap for 7 years!'

On the oil topic: US producers/frackers have driven costs down HARD. Thinking that $70/barrel is needed for profits is ridiculous. It's below $45/barrel - I'm not sure how far below, but below. All those truckers who were getting paid 6 figures? Try $50k, if they can keep their jobs at all. Drilling rig rentals are well below half what they were. Oil services companies? Hell, when oil was down to $70, the majors told them "cut prices 40% or we'll get someone else" - hotels that were getting $250/night are happy to get $75. Even the materials suppliers are being squeezed hard. Prices to complete a fracked well are WAY WAY down.

And cost-cutting innovations (more efficient/accurate/productive drilling/fracking) are being implemented hard and fast.

Yes, production is going down in the USA and will keep going down - but nowhere near as much as was originally predicted.  The Saudis are making the US oil producers WAY more efficient.

Elle 8

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11828 on: January 09, 2016, 07:30:28 AM »
Even losing lotto tickets can win you money! You can find a couple of those losing scratchoff tickets and cash them in for second-chance drawing. NJ lotto's is $1 million, so there's that.

Ha!  My dog walking route takes me past a convenience store that sells lottery tickets.  Sometimes there's a scratch ticket on the ground.  I'll pick it up, check the numbers and if has a second chance drawing (not all of them do here in Massachusetts), I'll take it home and enter.  Haven't won yet, but I'm hopeful, haha!

Also, I did join the office Powerball pool for $2 because if they did win, I wouldn't want to be the one left to do all the work!

Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11829 on: January 09, 2016, 07:57:42 AM »
Even losing lotto tickets can win you money! You can find a couple of those losing scratchoff tickets and cash them in for second-chance drawing. NJ lotto's is $1 million, so there's that.

Ha!  My dog walking route takes me past a convenience store that sells lottery tickets.  Sometimes there's a scratch ticket on the ground.  I'll pick it up, check the numbers and if has a second chance drawing (not all of them do here in Massachusetts), I'll take it home and enter.  Haven't won yet, but I'm hopeful, haha!

Also, I did join the office Powerball pool for $2 because if they did win, I wouldn't want to be the one left to do all the work!

I declined to join at work. The guy next to me said he did some on his own and at his wife's work... basically he hasn't but wants to be more diplomatic than me :P.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11830 on: January 09, 2016, 08:43:02 AM »
Co worker used to brag at lunch she spent $300 a month on dry cleaning.  She was a CPA and the company controller.  One of the young architects said what we all were thinking.  "Glad you're not my CPA."  Oh, and this was in 1989 and she was about 27 years old.  Has always stuck in my craw.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11831 on: January 09, 2016, 08:56:10 AM »
new one to add: CW bought a new to her 2014 F150 V8 single cab. She drives 60 miles each way every day, for I think $15 an hour or so. They wouldn't take her old car in on trade, so the dealer actually advised her to LET IT GET REPOSSESSED! it would be her 3rd repo, but shouldn't matter because she will still be paying on the truck in 7 years when her credit is "better". It's so good now her interest rate is 13% So this $22k truck is going to cost $36k by my math, plus lets say gas averages $3 a gallon x 6 gallons a day X 250 days/year x 5 years = $22,500 in GAS in a $22k truck she's paying 36k for.


wow, $59,000 for a used ford F150. it better do dirty sexual things for that price.

Not that this CW made a good decision, but seriously, why are people still assuming fuel is $3 a gallon?  From where I sit, I see a gas station that has gas at $1.79 and diesel at $2.19.  In fact, I believe we ended 2015, at least here in the states, with an average price per gallon of gasoline at $2.00.

Now, that's still stupid for that personals financial situation, and a LOT of fuel, but why does everyone on MMM have to get so judgy over people's decisions?

Figuring a ballpark $3 average for the next seven years of gasoline prices is reasonable when figuring the total cost of the vehicle. You can't just say 'oh, gas is $1.79, gonna stay cheap for 7 years!'

On the oil topic: US producers/frackers have driven costs down HARD. Thinking that $70/barrel is needed for profits is ridiculous. It's below $45/barrel - I'm not sure how far below, but below. All those truckers who were getting paid 6 figures? Try $50k, if they can keep their jobs at all. Drilling rig rentals are well below half what they were. Oil services companies? Hell, when oil was down to $70, the majors told them "cut prices 40% or we'll get someone else" - hotels that were getting $250/night are happy to get $75. Even the materials suppliers are being squeezed hard. Prices to complete a fracked well are WAY WAY down.

And cost-cutting innovations (more efficient/accurate/productive drilling/fracking) are being implemented hard and fast.

Yes, production is going down in the USA and will keep going down - but nowhere near as much as was originally predicted.  The Saudis are making the US oil producers WAY more efficient.

$33.16/barrel now. Mid-90's price levels now, it seems.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11832 on: January 11, 2016, 07:41:15 AM »
Me too... didn't win anything, though.  How would you feel if you won $200 million with a found lottery ticket though?  I imagine they might even trace it back to the original buyer.

That's a very interesting scenario. If officials have any suspicions they may quiz the winner about where and when he/she bought the ticket because they do have that on record. Then there's the question of whether the retail outlet would keep surveillance footage from the date of the purchase.

I remember reading about one case where a contractor working for the lottery was busted by surveillance footage of him buying a winning ticket after he rigged an upcoming drawing. He subsequently gave the ticket to an accomplice that tried to claim the prize.

You'd probably know the location of the purchase since they typically advertise it on the news.  The question is would you lie about buying it?  As much as I'd like a few hundred million, I'm not sure I would.  On the other hand, if you admit you found it, thousands of people would probably come forward "claiming" the ticket.  I agree surveillance footage may or may not exist, especially if you wait a year to claim the prize.

Not sure about elsewhere, but consider the following law from PA:

Quote
Until such time as a name is imprinted or placed upon the rear portion of the lottery ticket in the area designated for name, a lottery ticket shall be owned by the physical possessor of the ticket.

So if it's unsigned, you could probably cash it without needing to lie.  Moreover, you should write your name immediately upon purchase.
Being out of state of a lotto state, it's pretty common for one guy to drive up to Tennessee and buy tickets for a bunch of people.  So here it's not uncommon if your credit card purchases don't match the location of the ticket.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11833 on: January 11, 2016, 08:55:40 AM »
Me too... didn't win anything, though.  How would you feel if you won $200 million with a found lottery ticket though?  I imagine they might even trace it back to the original buyer.

That's a very interesting scenario. If officials have any suspicions they may quiz the winner about where and when he/she bought the ticket because they do have that on record. Then there's the question of whether the retail outlet would keep surveillance footage from the date of the purchase.

I remember reading about one case where a contractor working for the lottery was busted by surveillance footage of him buying a winning ticket after he rigged an upcoming drawing. He subsequently gave the ticket to an accomplice that tried to claim the prize.

You'd probably know the location of the purchase since they typically advertise it on the news.  The question is would you lie about buying it?  As much as I'd like a few hundred million, I'm not sure I would.  On the other hand, if you admit you found it, thousands of people would probably come forward "claiming" the ticket.  I agree surveillance footage may or may not exist, especially if you wait a year to claim the prize.

Not sure about elsewhere, but consider the following law from PA:

Quote
Until such time as a name is imprinted or placed upon the rear portion of the lottery ticket in the area designated for name, a lottery ticket shall be owned by the physical possessor of the ticket.

So if it's unsigned, you could probably cash it without needing to lie.  Moreover, you should write your name immediately upon purchase.
Being out of state of a lotto state, it's pretty common for one guy to drive up to Tennessee and buy tickets for a bunch of people.  So here it's not uncommon if your credit card purchases don't match the location of the ticket.

I don't know how it is in other states, but in Minnesota you need to pay cash for lottery tickets.

Lizzy B.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11834 on: January 11, 2016, 09:36:44 AM »
I’ve written before about some of my coworkers’ financial shenanigans.  For the most part, they’re pretty careful and sensible, but one of the managers in my department is the notable exception.

He repeatedly asks for information about investing and finances which I’m happy to oblige him with because the level of his ignorance is slightly frightening and because it’s such general information that I’m not tipping my hand.  For example, he doesn’t participate in our 401k because he didn’t understand the tax benefits.  Instead, he pays an advisor to invest in post-tax accounts at over 1.5% fees.  Facepalm.  He also asked once, disparagingly, if I invested in index funds since, “those are just for folks who don’t know what they’re doing.”  (As a side note, in one of our first discussions, he asked if I thought you could manage finances without an advisor.  I responded enthusiastically that you could, only to be convinced by his subsequent statements that he really, REALLY needed to be talking to someone who knows what they’re doing.  Advisors are good for some people.  I just wonder what this advisor does for him if he’s STILL so clueless after years of working with this advisor.)

Anyway, apparently he has these discussions with many of my coworkers too, which is probably great since, as I mentioned they’re pretty sensible.  After having enough of these conversations, he’s decided to downsize to a smaller house with a shorter commute time.  Because it’s a smaller house, he got money back from the sale of his old house in addition to lowering his commuting costs and monthly housing expenses.  So far so good.   

So then he starts talking about what to do with the extra money from the sale of the house.  Ok, I can see lots of reasons for not simply rolling that into a larger down payment on the new house.  I assumed, however, that since he’s constantly talks about not having enough to retire on that he’d invest the difference, using it to kick-start his savings.  Instead, I’ve now started hearing about some expensive kitchen options that he’s installing in the new house and some possible renovations (we’re talking moving walls and plumbing, not repainting or new carpets, so these are pricy renovations).  So, he’s basically already spent the money he’s making from the sale of the old house.  He also calculates that he’s only saving about $200 a month by moving.  While that’s a nice monthly boost, I hardly think that will set him on a path to financial freedom, particularly since he just reset the 30-year timer on paying for his house.
 



Murse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11835 on: January 12, 2016, 12:24:04 AM »
Coworker and I were discussing the lotto and she says
 "we should play the smaller ones"
Me- I know, I don't understand why everyone wants to play the 1b when 2m would be more then enough
CW- enough for what?
Me- to retire on, don't show up to work the next day
CW- are you crazy, you can't retire on 2m
Me- sure you can, just put it in a diversified portfolio
Cw changed the subject, I wish I could of gotten into how much do you make per year, of 70k, what 2m/70k almost 30x? (ignoring taxes)...

nnls

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11836 on: January 12, 2016, 12:48:35 AM »
Coworker and I were discussing the lotto and she says
 "we should play the smaller ones"
Me- I know, I don't understand why everyone wants to play the 1b when 2m would be more then enough
CW- enough for what?
Me- to retire on, don't show up to work the next day
CW- are you crazy, you can't retire on 2m
Me- sure you can, just put it in a diversified portfolio
Cw changed the subject, I wish I could of gotten into how much do you make per year, of 70k, what 2m/70k almost 30x? (ignoring taxes)...

Similar thing was discussed at my work the other day, we had a big draw here in Australia and a team of us went into a group ticket, we would have got about 3 million each(and australian lotto isn't taxed), and most said it wouldn't be enough to retire.

Primm

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11837 on: January 12, 2016, 05:02:26 AM »
Coworker and I were discussing the lotto and she says
 "we should play the smaller ones"
Me- I know, I don't understand why everyone wants to play the 1b when 2m would be more then enough
CW- enough for what?
Me- to retire on, don't show up to work the next day
CW- are you crazy, you can't retire on 2m
Me- sure you can, just put it in a diversified portfolio
Cw changed the subject, I wish I could of gotten into how much do you make per year, of 70k, what 2m/70k almost 30x? (ignoring taxes)...

Similar thing was discussed at my work the other day, we had a big draw here in Australia and a team of us went into a group ticket, we would have got about 3 million each(and australian lotto isn't taxed), and most said it wouldn't be enough to retire.

Some of us at work today were admiring a prize home at Noosa for which tickets are currently for sale. The home and furniture package is supposedly worth $1.9M, and it comes with 2 cars valued at about $160k and gold bullion at $750k.

I was the only one who said that selling the house wouldn't be a mandatory requirement for my retirement (I'd sell it, it's ugly, but still...) and that I could quite happily live off the $900k I'd get for the house and gold. They all looked at me like I was insane.

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11838 on: January 12, 2016, 06:38:22 AM »
On lentils.

Discount lentils.  Coupled with rice from dumpster diving.

arebelspy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11839 on: January 12, 2016, 06:39:25 AM »
On lentils.

Discount lentils.  Coupled with rice from dumpster diving.

Also they had a coupon for the dumpster rice.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11840 on: January 12, 2016, 07:01:44 AM »
Me too... didn't win anything, though.  How would you feel if you won $200 million with a found lottery ticket though?  I imagine they might even trace it back to the original buyer.

That's a very interesting scenario. If officials have any suspicions they may quiz the winner about where and when he/she bought the ticket because they do have that on record. Then there's the question of whether the retail outlet would keep surveillance footage from the date of the purchase.

I remember reading about one case where a contractor working for the lottery was busted by surveillance footage of him buying a winning ticket after he rigged an upcoming drawing. He subsequently gave the ticket to an accomplice that tried to claim the prize.

You'd probably know the location of the purchase since they typically advertise it on the news.  The question is would you lie about buying it?  As much as I'd like a few hundred million, I'm not sure I would.  On the other hand, if you admit you found it, thousands of people would probably come forward "claiming" the ticket.  I agree surveillance footage may or may not exist, especially if you wait a year to claim the prize.

Not sure about elsewhere, but consider the following law from PA:

Quote
Until such time as a name is imprinted or placed upon the rear portion of the lottery ticket in the area designated for name, a lottery ticket shall be owned by the physical possessor of the ticket.

So if it's unsigned, you could probably cash it without needing to lie.  Moreover, you should write your name immediately upon purchase.
Being out of state of a lotto state, it's pretty common for one guy to drive up to Tennessee and buy tickets for a bunch of people.  So here it's not uncommon if your credit card purchases don't match the location of the ticket.

I don't know how it is in other states, but in Minnesota you need to pay cash for lottery tickets.

I thought that too, but last Friday I bought a powerball ticket with my credit card.
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bb11

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11841 on: January 12, 2016, 07:51:36 AM »
One of my bosses recently bought a condo in the Virgin Islands. She is in her mid-30's and is a pretty extravagant spender; probably makes ~$150k. This has to be a very poor financial decision right?

She rents an apartment in a prime area of Manhattan, and plans to vacation to VI often (she's already been quite a bit) as well as use the condo as a vacation rental managed by the condo association (I believe she said they get 40% of the gross rent or something outrageous). I just can't see how you buy a vacation condo before you own your primary residence.

former player

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11842 on: January 12, 2016, 08:44:38 AM »
One of my bosses recently bought a condo in the Virgin Islands. She is in her mid-30's and is a pretty extravagant spender; probably makes ~$150k. This has to be a very poor financial decision right?

She rents an apartment in a prime area of Manhattan, and plans to vacation to VI often (she's already been quite a bit) as well as use the condo as a vacation rental managed by the condo association (I believe she said they get 40% of the gross rent or something outrageous). I just can't see how you buy a vacation condo before you own your primary residence.
It can make a lot of sense, particularly if you are priced out of the location you work in and can get a decent return on the holiday rental.
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MishMash

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11843 on: January 12, 2016, 10:00:48 AM »
More of an oversaw at work.  So for the last couple of years I've seen this very pricey BMW in the parking lot, the specialty license plate is O mst Go and the rear end is covered in Obama is an illegal immigrant, NObama (and more recently pro donald trump stickers).  For years I've been mentally profiling the owner without realizing it as the plethora of non removable, hate spewing, racist crap stickers increased.  I always figured old white man bitter that he's still working. 

Well today the owner of this car pulled into the space besides me and I saw them for the first time....95 lb Asian woman with a couple of Costco sized crates of cat food in the back seat, along with her cat print laptop bag and the radio was blaring some political AM station that was denouncing on how white people can't afford to live in this country any more, and how the Demoncraps have ruined this once great nation etc....yup, threw me for a loop.  The biggest anti Obama person in our office park is a crazy Asian cat lady folks.

**PS I'm also owned by a couple of cats, this just struck me as a huh....didn't see THAT one coming.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11844 on: January 12, 2016, 11:09:09 AM »
More of an oversaw at work.  So for the last couple of years I've seen this very pricey BMW in the parking lot, the specialty license plate is O mst Go and the rear end is covered in Obama is an illegal immigrant, NObama (and more recently pro donald trump stickers).  For years I've been mentally profiling the owner without realizing it as the plethora of non removable, hate spewing, racist crap stickers increased.  I always figured old white man bitter that he's still working. 

Well today the owner of this car pulled into the space besides me and I saw them for the first time....95 lb Asian woman with a couple of Costco sized crates of cat food in the back seat, along with her cat print laptop bag and the radio was blaring some political AM station that was denouncing on how white people can't afford to live in this country any more, and how the Demoncraps have ruined this once great nation etc....yup, threw me for a loop.  The biggest anti Obama person in our office park is a crazy Asian cat lady folks.

**PS I'm also owned by a couple of cats, this just struck me as a huh....didn't see THAT one coming.

Not that surprising, as all cats are Republicans.


mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11845 on: January 12, 2016, 12:29:11 PM »
One of my bosses recently bought a condo in the Virgin Islands. She is in her mid-30's and is a pretty extravagant spender; probably makes ~$150k. This has to be a very poor financial decision right?

She rents an apartment in a prime area of Manhattan, and plans to vacation to VI often (she's already been quite a bit) as well as use the condo as a vacation rental managed by the condo association (I believe she said they get 40% of the gross rent or something outrageous). I just can't see how you buy a vacation condo before you own your primary residence.


I've thought about it--but that is mostly because I know where I want to vacation for the rest of my life, but can see 3-4 moves in the next 5-10 years in the place that I actually live. Oh, and the vacation area, homes are CHEAP. A waterfront 4BR house is about the same as a 2BR, busy street in a good school district here.

vivian

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11846 on: January 12, 2016, 01:12:22 PM »
At my office, parking options are as follows: 1) metered parking right outside the door (intended for visitors), 2) buy a permit for the large parking lot at $36 per month, or 3) park on the street about 3-4 blocks away for free. There is a small contingent that park on the street (as do I when I have to drive). Most have parking permits. One coworker jokes about how I don't have a parking permit. Today I learned that not only does he pay for a permit, but about once a week also pays for a metered spot. He always has some reason, really cold weather, heavy bag, etc. but goes out every two hours to feed the meter when he's already paid for a permit!


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nitsuj1225

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11847 on: January 13, 2016, 01:06:06 PM »
I'm a part-time realtor on the side (I have a regular 9-5 as well) so this isn't more of a "overheard at work" as it is people I've come across in real estate.

The best face-palm moment that happened recently is that I had a potential client contact me about seeing a property.  It was regarding a $45k mobile home.  I emailed him the MLS information and asked if he wanted me to set up a showing.  I get a reply back saying he's waiting on a disability check and trying to straighten out his credit before buying right now (he's the one who contacted me first by the way).  Which is still fine if the footer of his email didn't read "Sent from my Galaxy S6 on AT&T".

It was everything I could do not to email him back and say you mean to tell me you have a $600+ brand new smartphone and another ridiculous monthly amount for having an AT&T plan but yet you have bad credit and have trouble affording a $45k home?  Priceless.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11848 on: January 13, 2016, 02:09:32 PM »
I'm a part-time realtor on the side
Me too, and I like it so much I plan to do it in FIRE. We should swap cards and stuff. ;)
Quote
It was everything I could do not to email him back and say you mean to tell me you have a $600+ brand new smartphone and another ridiculous monthly amount for having an AT&T plan but yet you have bad credit and have trouble affording a $45k home?  Priceless.
In fairness, AT&T probably did build most or all of the retail value of that phone into his plan, so it doesn't seem that expensive. You're showing the guy a $45K trailer, what kind of sophistication do you expect? xD
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MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11849 on: January 13, 2016, 02:30:44 PM »
You're showing the guy a $45K trailer, what kind of sophistication do you expect? xD

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