Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 4746789 times)

TheInsuranceMan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11800 on: January 06, 2016, 03:14:49 PM »
Now, that's still stupid for that personals financial situation, and a LOT of fuel, but why does everyone on MMM have to get so judgy over people's decisions?

That's kinda the whole point of this topic, to shake our heads at people who make ridiculous financial decisions they can't afford.

Okay, you win that point.

Squirrel away

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11801 on: January 07, 2016, 02:37:26 AM »
CW 1:  Man, I'm so broke, between Christmas, the pregnancy and the new house I am strapped"
CW2" that sucks man, when is your new stack getting here?"  ***I THINK a stack is some sort of weight lifting equipment based on the way the conversation went*****
CW1:  I dunno man I just ordered it yesterday
CW2:  Man that site I sent you, they usually have it to you in 2 days, they cost a bit more but the shipping is fast
CW1:  For $1700 I'd hope the shipping is quick!

For the record, these are the same two idiots that couldn't figure out the tea kettle. 

That made me lol!

Pooplips

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11802 on: January 07, 2016, 06:32:37 AM »

Not that this CW made a good decision, but seriously, why are people still assuming fuel is $3 a gallon?  From where I sit, I see a gas station that has gas at $1.79 and diesel at $2.19.  In fact, I believe we ended 2015, at least here in the states, with an average price per gallon of gasoline at $2.00.
It's $2.0x here or $1.9x at the cash-only place, but anyway...

Because it being < $2.50/gal for 6 months doesn't have most of us assuming that's the new normal. My husband thinks OPEC is artificially lowering their prices temporarily to manipulate the election. I don't know about that, but given it was $4/gal for a while there, $3 seems to be the average over the last 15 years.

I wonder what those numbers look like inflation adjusted. I might have to do some research this morning.

KodeBlue

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11803 on: January 07, 2016, 06:42:46 AM »
I heard a housekeeper at my hospital saying she spent $200 on Powerball tickets. Nuff said.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11804 on: January 07, 2016, 08:20:36 AM »
I heard a housekeeper at my hospital saying she spent $200 on Powerball tickets. Nuff said.

I spent $10 on the tickets. Not sure I got $10 worth of daydreaming. Probably only about $7. I'll have to see if I won anything, but I don't think I did.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11805 on: January 07, 2016, 08:29:49 AM »
I heard a housekeeper at my hospital saying she spent $200 on Powerball tickets. Nuff said.

I spent $10 on the tickets. Not sure I got $10 worth of daydreaming. Probably only about $7. I'll have to see if I won anything, but I don't think I did.



EDIT: found a better picture
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 08:34:21 AM by frugalnacho »

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11806 on: January 07, 2016, 08:42:33 AM »
Yeah, a few years ago I would buy a lottery ticket every so often. In my head the reasoning was, 'it's only $1 and the dream of not worrying about money,' but then I realized how badly I was wasting my money, and more importantly, that this could let such an improbable dream guide me away from things that truly matter in life.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11807 on: January 07, 2016, 08:56:45 AM »
I heard a housekeeper at my hospital saying she spent $200 on Powerball tickets. Nuff said.

I spent $10 on the tickets. Not sure I got $10 worth of daydreaming. Probably only about $7. I'll have to see if I won anything, but I don't think I did.



EDIT: found a better picture

Actually, I didn't! I lost $2 (spent $10, won $8).

The $2 was turned into postage stamps.

fattest_foot

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11808 on: January 07, 2016, 10:09:51 AM »
Related since people at work were talking about the lottery.

I had said that the reason I didn't buy a lottery ticket for yesterday's drawing is that to me, there's not really any difference between whatever the base amount is and these $500 million+ ones. I said that once I got to something like the $4-5 million range, I wouldn't even be able to spend that much money. If I were buying a ticket for this one, I have no real reason not to buy a ticket for every drawing. I got all kinds of looks like I was crazy.

I then stated that "With $200 million, you literally wouldn't be able to spend the earnings on that money."
The response was laughs and "Are you kidding? I could easily spend that much!"

Maybe they just didn't do the math, but you're talking about conservatively $8 million a year.

JLee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11809 on: January 07, 2016, 10:50:19 AM »
Related since people at work were talking about the lottery.

I had said that the reason I didn't buy a lottery ticket for yesterday's drawing is that to me, there's not really any difference between whatever the base amount is and these $500 million+ ones. I said that once I got to something like the $4-5 million range, I wouldn't even be able to spend that much money. If I were buying a ticket for this one, I have no real reason not to buy a ticket for every drawing. I got all kinds of looks like I was crazy.

I then stated that "With $200 million, you literally wouldn't be able to spend the earnings on that money."
The response was laughs and "Are you kidding? I could easily spend that much!"

Maybe they just didn't do the math, but you're talking about conservatively $8 million a year.

My napkin math put it around $150mil lump sum post-tax, for a ~$4mil net annual income at 4%.

I could sponsor a $500k kickstart-to-ER donation for a random Mustachian every three months and still have millions a year...

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11810 on: January 07, 2016, 10:57:51 AM »
1. never underestimate the stupidity of people.  You can't think of a way to spend that much money, but there are lots of celebrities who have easily earned that much and are bankrupt now.

2. I agree that it's far too much money for me to ever personally use, but can you imagine the good you could do in the world if you possessed $500M?  How many millions of starving children you could help? How much fresh water you could bring to poverty stricken areas? $20M/year could go a hell of a long way in improving the lives of so many people.

mlejw6

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11811 on: January 07, 2016, 11:10:54 AM »

Not that this CW made a good decision, but seriously, why are people still assuming fuel is $3 a gallon?  From where I sit, I see a gas station that has gas at $1.79 and diesel at $2.19.  In fact, I believe we ended 2015, at least here in the states, with an average price per gallon of gasoline at $2.00.
It's $2.0x here or $1.9x at the cash-only place, but anyway...

Because it being < $2.50/gal for 6 months doesn't have most of us assuming that's the new normal. My husband thinks OPEC is artificially lowering their prices temporarily to manipulate the election. I don't know about that, but given it was $4/gal for a while there, $3 seems to be the average over the last 15 years.

Actually, oil prices are low because some country in the middle east (probably the Saudis) normally stops selling oil when there is a glut in the market. However, this time (sometime in 2015) they decided to continue selling and are still selling, so there is even more oil available, thus lowering the prices even more. I have no source for you, because I am at work and shouldn't be wandering around the interwebs like this. But, that is what I've heard. Which, doesn't actually contradict what you said at all. Anyway.

Edited for reading comprehension.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 11:18:53 AM by mlejw6 »
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marcela

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11812 on: January 07, 2016, 11:23:59 AM »
My boss was complaining about not getting reimbursed for a hotel stay quick enough (In late November, we were informed no reimbursements would go out between Dec14th and January 4th) and it forced her to bounce checks. She makes 6 figures, I don't get how this became a problem.

I now understand why she flipped out when it took them 3 months to reimburse me for a conference. If she can't maintain cashflow to handle those charges, it must be impossible for her to imagine I can making half as much as she does!

MandalayVA

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11813 on: January 07, 2016, 11:24:21 AM »
CW 1:  Man, I'm so broke, between Christmas, the pregnancy and the new house I am strapped"
CW2" that sucks man, when is your new stack getting here?"  ***I THINK a stack is some sort of weight lifting equipment based on the way the conversation went*****
CW1:  I dunno man I just ordered it yesterday
CW2:  Man that site I sent you, they usually have it to you in 2 days, they cost a bit more but the shipping is fast
CW1:  For $1700 I'd hope the shipping is quick!

For the record, these are the same two idiots that couldn't figure out the tea kettle.  In the past month CW1 has found out his wife is pregnant, subsequently put in a contract on a new build home in Gainesville va, with so far, 35k in upgrades,...we work in the DC area...so yea that's a RIDICULOUS commute and I'm pretty sure he earns about 60k or under a year.
Ouch.  My nephew lives in Bristow, VA.  When I lived in the area and worked in Crystal City, we had coworkers who lived in Centreville.  At the time (90's), that's as far out as anyone really lived and commuted.

Sadly I've seen that beat--a few years ago the local paper ran a piece about people who commuted to DC ... from Richmond.  Not only is Richmond ninety miles from DC, the rush hour clusterfuck on the roads south of there is awful.  I remember one woman having to leave her house at FOUR A.M. to make sure she got to her job on time.  Her job started at NINE.
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zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11814 on: January 07, 2016, 11:41:50 AM »

Actually, oil prices are low because some country in the middle east (probably the Saudis) normally stops selling oil when there is a glut in the market. However, this time (sometime in 2015) they decided to continue selling and are still selling, so there is even more oil available, thus lowering the prices even more. I have no source for you, because I am at work and shouldn't be wandering around the interwebs like this. But, that is what I've heard. Which, doesn't actually contradict what you said at all. Anyway.

Edited for reading comprehension.
Yeah, usually the Saudis (and the others of OPEC) would normally decrease production to drive prices higher.  The shale gas boom in the US drove down prices, so OPEC actually *increased* production to drive prices low enough to knock the newcomers out of business.  It's working to an extent--my in-laws live in a town with heavy oil/gas industry, and it's been hit pretty hard--but enough production has now been brought online that the damage to OPEC has been done.  They don't have quite as much of a monopoly as they used to.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11815 on: January 07, 2016, 11:58:07 AM »
Related since people at work were talking about the lottery.

I had said that the reason I didn't buy a lottery ticket for yesterday's drawing is that to me, there's not really any difference between whatever the base amount is and these $500 million+ ones. I said that once I got to something like the $4-5 million range, I wouldn't even be able to spend that much money. If I were buying a ticket for this one, I have no real reason not to buy a ticket for every drawing. I got all kinds of looks like I was crazy.

I then stated that "With $200 million, you literally wouldn't be able to spend the earnings on that money."
The response was laughs and "Are you kidding? I could easily spend that much!"

Maybe they just didn't do the math, but you're talking about conservatively $8 million a year.

My thing is guilt. It is self imposed, for sure, but if I won a $2 million lottery, then I'd have enough to retire (assuming half goes to taxes). I'd feel guilty about the folks around me who need help, but not be able to help them.

If I won a $200 million lottery, and kept $100 million after taxes, I could take $8 million and live off of that for the rest of my life. I'd have an insane life. It would be wonderful. Then I have $92 million to help my MIL with her MS, build a new school, contribute to cancer research, etc.

I know that doesn't make a lot of sense logically, but it works for me.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11816 on: January 07, 2016, 12:08:32 PM »
Related since people at work were talking about the lottery.

I had said that the reason I didn't buy a lottery ticket for yesterday's drawing is that to me, there's not really any difference between whatever the base amount is and these $500 million+ ones. I said that once I got to something like the $4-5 million range, I wouldn't even be able to spend that much money. If I were buying a ticket for this one, I have no real reason not to buy a ticket for every drawing. I got all kinds of looks like I was crazy.

I then stated that "With $200 million, you literally wouldn't be able to spend the earnings on that money."
The response was laughs and "Are you kidding? I could easily spend that much!"

Maybe they just didn't do the math, but you're talking about conservatively $8 million a year.

Lol, that's exactly why I occasionally play my state lottery instead of the powerball or whatever mega thing there is.  I figure my odds are better to win a smaller amount.  I'm very rational in my irrational expenditures.

An extra 100 million won't make me happier, but enough to retire (even the 2nd prize levels) would be great.

Depending on your family's situation, there's something to be said in having enough to allow them to spend more time with you and less working.  I might not personally be happier spending an extra million, but if that million can help my family retire I'll be happier spending more time with them.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 12:14:02 PM by dragoncar »

KodeBlue

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11817 on: January 07, 2016, 12:50:32 PM »
I heard a housekeeper at my hospital saying she spent $200 on Powerball tickets. Nuff said.

I spent $10 on the tickets. Not sure I got $10 worth of daydreaming. Probably only about $7. I'll have to see if I won anything, but I don't think I did.
I guess what made me think of this as facepunch or at least facepalm worthy is the idea of someone who makes about $12/hr spending $200 in one fell swoop on tickets. Ouch.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11818 on: January 07, 2016, 01:03:30 PM »
I heard a housekeeper at my hospital saying she spent $200 on Powerball tickets. Nuff said.

I spent $10 on the tickets. Not sure I got $10 worth of daydreaming. Probably only about $7. I'll have to see if I won anything, but I don't think I did.
I guess what made me think of this as facepunch or at least facepalm worthy is the idea of someone who makes about $12/hr spending $200 in one fell swoop on tickets. Ouch.

Ooof. Yeah, that isn't good. I won't notice my $10; it did come out of my entertainment budget after all.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11819 on: January 07, 2016, 01:36:25 PM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Hunny156

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11820 on: January 07, 2016, 02:06:47 PM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Someone at work mentioned buying tickets today for the next drawing, and justifying it by saying "someone's gotta win, might as well be me!"  I nodded in agreement and told him if I don't see him at work next week, I'll know why!  Then I laughed to myself...

hudsoncat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11821 on: January 07, 2016, 03:02:27 PM »
I have to humble brag first for a little background... I lost quite a bit of weight in the last year, which has necessitated some clothes buying. I hit the jackpot at my local Goodwill a few nights ago night and today I am wearing some of the clothes.

CW: I love those pants, where did you get them?
Me: Oh, they are Ann Taylor Loft, but I actually found them at Goodwill!
CW: Goodwill?
Me: Yes! I found a great deal, 3 pair of work pants, three work shirts, a skirt, and a blazer for less than $50. All were either Ann Taylor Loft or The Limited!
CW: And you are wearing them?!
Me: Um...
CW: But poor people shop at Goodwill. Aren't you worried the clothes are dirty or worn out?
Me: Well, you do have to check carefully for wear and I always run things through the washer as soon as I bring them home, but you can't bet the deal!
CW: I'd rather be naked. I mean those pants are okay I guess, but are probably last year's style anyway.

CW has told me how heavily she is in debt and she regularly visits a local food pantry on "short" months. But anything used is just too ridiculous to consider I guess. No matter how nice she thought they looked when she assumed I spent a lot of money for them. I just laughed. I shouldn't have to buy more work clothes now for a long time.



JLee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11822 on: January 07, 2016, 05:18:55 PM »
CW: I love those pants, where did you get them?
(Goodwill!)
CW: I'd rather be naked. I mean those pants are okay I guess, but are probably last year's style anyway.

lmao, wtf...

Hedge_87

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11823 on: January 07, 2016, 07:16:54 PM »
CW: I love those pants, where did you get them?
(Goodwill!)
CW: I'd rather be naked. I mean those pants are okay I guess, but are probably last year's style anyway.

lmao, wtf...
I agree I would rather be naked most of the time but some people just don't want anybody to have fun
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nobodyspecial

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11824 on: January 07, 2016, 08:34:18 PM »
The shale gas boom in the US drove down prices, so OPEC actually *increased* production to drive prices low enough to knock the newcomers out of business.  It's working to an extent--
But isn't going to work long term. Even if the current operators go bust we know the oil is there and have the technology so it's easy for another round of companies to turn the tap back on when prices increase.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11825 on: January 07, 2016, 09:15:57 PM »
The shale gas boom in the US drove down prices, so OPEC actually *increased* production to drive prices low enough to knock the newcomers out of business.  It's working to an extent--
But isn't going to work long term. Even if the current operators go bust we know the oil is there and have the technology so it's easy for another round of companies to turn the tap back on when prices increase.
Precisely, which is why OPEC is in such a pickle--if they slow their own production, prices will increase somewhat, but nowhere near as much as they might have in decades past.

oneday

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11826 on: January 08, 2016, 12:03:28 AM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Someone at work mentioned buying tickets today for the next drawing, and justifying it by saying "someone's gotta win, might as well be me!"  I nodded in agreement and told him if I don't see him at work next week, I'll know why!  Then I laughed to myself...

Lottery fever around here!

A couple weeks back at work we were in a teambuilding meeting where we were required to share a personal goal (barf).  Anyway, the last gal to go, I guess she wanted to be different than everybody else.  Her goal was to win the lottery!!!! OMFG!  Everyone else was like WTF?  So then she says it was a joke & gave some other personal goal.  I'm not convinced it was a joke, but that could just be the frugal weirdo in me talking.
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JordanOfGilead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11827 on: January 08, 2016, 06:10:38 AM »
The shale gas boom in the US drove down prices, so OPEC actually *increased* production to drive prices low enough to knock the newcomers out of business.  It's working to an extent--
But isn't going to work long term. Even if the current operators go bust we know the oil is there and have the technology so it's easy for another round of companies to turn the tap back on when prices increase.
Precisely, which is why OPEC is in such a pickle--if they slow their own production, prices will increase somewhat, but nowhere near as much as they might have in decades past.
Harvesting oil in any way other than pumping it from an underground reservoir is much more expensive. I'll use fake numbers to give an example.
Let's say the cost to pump one barrel of crude is $20 per barrel. Any time the market value of crude is greater than $20 per barrel, OPEC is making money.
At the same time, the cost to harvest oil from alternative methods may be in the realm of $70/barrel. When the price of oil spiked a few years ago, this made what would have otherwise been considered an expensive venture, profitable. As long as crude stayed above the (in this case, hypothetical) market value of $70/barrel, the alternative harvesting techniques were still profitable.

In the past, OPEC has come together and slowed production to maintain price stability and consistent profits for their member nations. In the late 80s, however, one or two country members of OPEC didn't follow along with the rest of the group and kept their production up while the rest of OPEC dropped their production. The result was that prices still went up, but the member nations that didn't do what they were supposed to made boatloads more than the ones that slowed production. This was viewed by the members of OPEC that followed the rules as essentially stealing from them (a big cause of some of the current tension in the middle east).

Back to the present, When north American companies started harvesting oil at $70/barrel, instead of slowing production to maintain the same market value, OPEC INCREASED production to force the prices down even lower with the idea that if the prices dropped below the operating costs, the new guys in the game would start losing money and be forced out of business.

It's started to work with one or two more expensive types of harvesting crude, but several of the "lower" cost alternative methods are still able to hang on for the time being. Keep in mind that OPEC is not hurting for money and they have plenty of crude already out of the ground sitting off of the market to help in their control of prices. They are taking a hit on profit margin now to win back the position of near exclusive petroleum supplier for the world in the future.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 06:15:35 AM by JordanOfGilead »

lithy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11828 on: January 08, 2016, 06:30:46 AM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.

nanu

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11829 on: January 08, 2016, 07:14:55 AM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I figure the odds of winning are so low, I will probably only win with divine intervention.
As such, I'm sure the good lord can get the winning ticket to me if he decides I'm worthy of winning the lottery, rather than me needing to actually buy the ticket (I'm actually an atheist, but doesn't mean I'm not optimistic)
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frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11830 on: January 08, 2016, 07:17:50 AM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I figure the odds of winning are so low, I will probably only win with divine intervention.
As such, I'm sure the good lord can get the winning ticket to me if he decides I'm worthy of winning the lottery, rather than me needing to actually buy the ticket (I'm actually an atheist, but doesn't mean I'm not optimistic)

God helps those that help themselves (by buying lottery tickets).

Anje

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11831 on: January 08, 2016, 07:31:10 AM »
The shale gas boom in the US drove down prices, so OPEC actually *increased* production to drive prices low enough to knock the newcomers out of business.  It's working to an extent--
But isn't going to work long term. Even if the current operators go bust we know the oil is there and have the technology so it's easy for another round of companies to turn the tap back on when prices increase.
Precisely, which is why OPEC is in such a pickle--if they slow their own production, prices will increase somewhat, but nowhere near as much as they might have in decades past.
But they have a huge advantage over american and european oil - ours is more expencive to get to (even for companies who just up and leave after - it's dirt expencive for those who clean up after themselves). If you have oil that's relative cheap to get to and your compeditor has oil that's expencive to get to you can earn money keeping prices lower than margin cost for the rest of the bunch. Which is what they are attempting. Now, long term they won't succeed. But that doesn't mean a lot of people will not loose their job before "long term" kicks in. Here we are reeducating en masse - noone is expecting the same levels of earnings for 10 years + and that means you got to get oil up with fewer hands and heads hired.

Of course: the irony is that low oil price = high returns in all other industries but oil. So yey OPEC.

marcela

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11832 on: January 08, 2016, 07:32:27 AM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I figure the odds of winning are so low, I will probably only win with divine intervention.
As such, I'm sure the good lord can get the winning ticket to me if he decides I'm worthy of winning the lottery, rather than me needing to actually buy the ticket (I'm actually an atheist, but doesn't mean I'm not optimistic)

God helps those that help themselves (by buying lottery tickets).

I figured the $2 I'm throwing into the office pool wasn't going to make a ton of difference to me anyway and it's coming out of my entertainment budget for the month.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11833 on: January 08, 2016, 07:36:38 AM »
A millionaire is made ten bucks at a time.  I think by logical extension you can also argue a millionaire is made two bucks at a time.

SweetTPie

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11834 on: January 08, 2016, 08:07:26 AM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I actually had this happen to me a few months ago.  It wasn't much- it was a scratch-off ticket with a prize of all of $2.  I was just picking up some trash along the sidewalk and realized it hadn't been cashed in.  A little reward for doing some cleaning up that I would have done regardless!

Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11835 on: January 08, 2016, 08:52:53 AM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I actually had this happen to me a few months ago.  It wasn't much- it was a scratch-off ticket with a prize of all of $2.  I was just picking up some trash along the sidewalk and realized it hadn't been cashed in.  A little reward for doing some cleaning up that I would have done regardless!

Even losing lotto tickets can win you money! You can find a couple of those losing scratchoff tickets and cash them in for second-chance drawing. NJ lotto's is $1 million, so there's that.

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11836 on: January 08, 2016, 09:07:12 AM »
A millionaire is made ten bucks at a time.  I think by logical extension you can also argue a millionaire is made two bucks at a time.

You make ten bucks by counting your pennies.

dsmexpat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11837 on: January 08, 2016, 09:19:43 AM »
The shale gas boom in the US drove down prices, so OPEC actually *increased* production to drive prices low enough to knock the newcomers out of business.  It's working to an extent--
But isn't going to work long term. Even if the current operators go bust we know the oil is there and have the technology so it's easy for another round of companies to turn the tap back on when prices increase.
There are huge infrastructure startup costs involved to the point that it's actually more profitable to keep it running while selling oil at a loss for a few years than to shut it all down and then rebuild it all later. Currently domestic oil producers are pouring money into a money pit in the hope that they can fill it up before they run out. Meanwhile the Saudis are at the other end, trying to make the hole deeper to so that the US oil companies give up and stop throwing money into the money pit.

If the US fracking companies go under then they'll lose a shit ton of investor money, have their skilled technicians leave the company and the area, no longer be able to maintain the infrastructure that gets the oil to the refineries, have a knockon impact on the refineries that process their oil which can in turn damage the ability to even sell the oil in the future and so forth. It's not as simple as an on/off switch which is why the Saudis are doing what they're doing. Their lower cost of production can allow them to force their rivals into bankruptcy, thus restoring their monopoly. It's almost to the point you think maybe the US gov should subsidize domestic oil production to protect the industry from this. Almost.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11838 on: January 08, 2016, 09:54:10 AM »
If the US fracking companies go under then they'll lose a shit ton of investor money, have their skilled technicians leave the company and the area, no longer be able to maintain the infrastructure that gets the oil to the refineries, have a knockon impact on the refineries that process their oil which can in turn damage the ability to even sell the oil in the future and so forth. It's not as simple as an on/off switch which is why the Saudis are doing what they're doing. Their lower cost of production can allow them to force their rivals into bankruptcy, thus restoring their monopoly. It's almost to the point you think maybe the US gov should subsidize domestic oil production to protect the industry from this. Almost.
NOOOO!!!!! LET THE FREE MARKET SOLVE IT!!!

Once upon a time I was irritated by the fact that the same people say the government should leave all to the market as long as things go good, and when things go bad, the market needs to be put at the chain.
But we are long long advaned beyond that and the motto now is "keep the profits, and when things break down, let the taxpayer pay for our errors".
There are even successful attemps at "let the taxpayer pay in advance and we will think about how much we will give back".

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11839 on: January 08, 2016, 09:59:57 AM »
If the US fracking companies go under then they'll lose a shit ton of investor money, have their skilled technicians leave the company and the area, no longer be able to maintain the infrastructure that gets the oil to the refineries, have a knockon impact on the refineries that process their oil which can in turn damage the ability to even sell the oil in the future and so forth. It's not as simple as an on/off switch which is why the Saudis are doing what they're doing. Their lower cost of production can allow them to force their rivals into bankruptcy, thus restoring their monopoly. It's almost to the point you think maybe the US gov should subsidize domestic oil production to protect the industry from this. Almost.
NOOOO!!!!! LET THE FREE MARKET SOLVE IT!!!

Once upon a time I was irritated by the fact that the same people say the government should leave all to the market as long as things go good, and when things go bad, the market needs to be put at the chain.
But we are long long advaned beyond that and the motto now is "keep the profits, and when things break down, let the taxpayer pay for our errors".
There are even successful attemps at "let the taxpayer pay in advance and we will think about how much we will give back".

Yup! Love how "free market" advocates howl about how regulations are destroying this country, but are the first ones with their hands outstretched when they need a bail-out. It's sickening how Wall Streeters actually believe that they were victimized by the collapse, I know a few people that comments about that until they were told to shut up by people that were actually hurt.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11840 on: January 08, 2016, 03:01:54 PM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I actually had this happen to me a few months ago.  It wasn't much- it was a scratch-off ticket with a prize of all of $2.  I was just picking up some trash along the sidewalk and realized it hadn't been cashed in.  A little reward for doing some cleaning up that I would have done regardless!

Me too... didn't win anything, though.  How would you feel if you won $200 million with a found lottery ticket though?  I imagine they might even trace it back to the original buyer.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11841 on: January 08, 2016, 03:06:17 PM »
You can't win if you don't play.

Well of course you can't win the lottery if you don't play.

But you can still win.

Just 1 or 2 (or apparently in some cases 200) dollars at a time.
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I actually had this happen to me a few months ago.  It wasn't much- it was a scratch-off ticket with a prize of all of $2.  I was just picking up some trash along the sidewalk and realized it hadn't been cashed in.  A little reward for doing some cleaning up that I would have done regardless!

Me too... didn't win anything, though.  How would you feel if you won $200 million with a found lottery ticket though?  I imagine they might even trace it back to the original buyer.
If I found one, I'm sure I wouldn't even check it, it'd go straight in the trash.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11842 on: January 08, 2016, 03:08:58 PM »
Yup! Love how "free market" advocates howl about how regulations are destroying this country, but are the first ones with their hands outstretched when they need a bail-out. It's sickening how Wall Streeters actually believe that they were victimized by the collapse, I know a few people that comments about that until they were told to shut up by people that were actually hurt.
Haha, Oh yes, there was an article about a subprime trader who actually DID NOT GET ANY BONUS in the crash year and had to live of his base salary 150K for a WHOLE YEAR!
IMPOSSIBLE!!!
Some people on unemployment payment offered to change places. He was to shy to take up the offer.

slugline

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11843 on: January 08, 2016, 03:19:30 PM »
Me too... didn't win anything, though.  How would you feel if you won $200 million with a found lottery ticket though?  I imagine they might even trace it back to the original buyer.

That's a very interesting scenario. If officials have any suspicions they may quiz the winner about where and when he/she bought the ticket because they do have that on record. Then there's the question of whether the retail outlet would keep surveillance footage from the date of the purchase.

I remember reading about one case where a contractor working for the lottery was busted by surveillance footage of him buying a winning ticket after he rigged an upcoming drawing. He subsequently gave the ticket to an accomplice that tried to claim the prize.

bloomability

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11844 on: January 08, 2016, 03:53:04 PM »
Yup! Love how "free market" advocates howl about how regulations are destroying this country, but are the first ones with their hands outstretched when they need a bail-out. It's sickening how Wall Streeters actually believe that they were victimized by the collapse, I know a few people that comments about that until they were told to shut up by people that were actually hurt.
Haha, Oh yes, there was an article about a subprime trader who actually DID NOT GET ANY BONUS in the crash year and had to live of his base salary 150K for a WHOLE YEAR!
IMPOSSIBLE!!!
Some people on unemployment payment offered to change places. He was to shy to take up the offer.

do you think you could link that article? I did a quick Google search looking for low bonuses on Wall Street, but only found people mad at $3.5 million bonuses.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11845 on: January 08, 2016, 03:57:31 PM »
Me too... didn't win anything, though.  How would you feel if you won $200 million with a found lottery ticket though?  I imagine they might even trace it back to the original buyer.

That's a very interesting scenario. If officials have any suspicions they may quiz the winner about where and when he/she bought the ticket because they do have that on record. Then there's the question of whether the retail outlet would keep surveillance footage from the date of the purchase.

I remember reading about one case where a contractor working for the lottery was busted by surveillance footage of him buying a winning ticket after he rigged an upcoming drawing. He subsequently gave the ticket to an accomplice that tried to claim the prize.

You'd probably know the location of the purchase since they typically advertise it on the news.  The question is would you lie about buying it?  As much as I'd like a few hundred million, I'm not sure I would.  On the other hand, if you admit you found it, thousands of people would probably come forward "claiming" the ticket.  I agree surveillance footage may or may not exist, especially if you wait a year to claim the prize.

Not sure about elsewhere, but consider the following law from PA:

Quote
Until such time as a name is imprinted or placed upon the rear portion of the lottery ticket in the area designated for name, a lottery ticket shall be owned by the physical possessor of the ticket.

So if it's unsigned, you could probably cash it without needing to lie.  Moreover, you should write your name immediately upon purchase.

Making Cookies

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11846 on: January 08, 2016, 06:25:20 PM »
http://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-announces-2016-budget-1451312691

So the Saudis are cutting benefits and raising prices to compensate for their sagging oil earnings.

As mentioned above I figure they are trying to starve the North American competition, renewables and EVs.

According to an NPR story this morn 2015 was a record year for the automakers (except for VW perhaps) and the majority of the vehicles sold were trucks and SUVs. Hybrids aren't selling well.

And then suddenly one day - fuel prices double and the light truck drivers are surprised that they can't afford the payments and fuel to get to work... 


zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11847 on: January 08, 2016, 07:08:34 PM »
"let the taxpayer pay in advance and we will think about how much we will give back".
Gee, that sounds a lot like Social Security! :)

There are huge infrastructure startup costs involved to the point that it's actually more profitable to keep it running while selling oil at a loss for a few years than to shut it all down and then rebuild it all later. Currently domestic oil producers are pouring money into a money pit in the hope that they can fill it up before they run out. Meanwhile the Saudis are at the other end, trying to make the hole deeper to so that the US oil companies give up and stop throwing money into the money pit.

If the US fracking companies go under then they'll lose a shit ton of investor money, have their skilled technicians leave the company and the area, no longer be able to maintain the infrastructure that gets the oil to the refineries, have a knockon impact on the refineries that process their oil which can in turn damage the ability to even sell the oil in the future and so forth. It's not as simple as an on/off switch which is why the Saudis are doing what they're doing. Their lower cost of production can allow them to force their rivals into bankruptcy, thus restoring their monopoly. It's almost to the point you think maybe the US gov should subsidize domestic oil production to protect the industry from this. Almost.
From what I've heard, even the Saudis are losing money at this point.  I wonder if they didn't become the victims of their own greed--oil prices were so high for so long that there was enough time to develop/refine the technology for producing more difficult oil/gas.  Once that hurdle was cleared, it permanently decreased the cost of producing that previously-uneconomic oil.

Troy McClure

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11848 on: January 08, 2016, 07:41:40 PM »
It's not as if the House of Saud doesn't know what it's doing. While it was true that flooding the market with supply was originally done to drive US fracking companies under, that is not the reason why it is continuing. In case anyone's forgotten, OPEC isn't just one happy family. In fact, members Saudi Arabia and Iran are currently fighting several proxy wars in the area. Further, the US and EU just gone done lifting sanctions on Iran allowing them to reenter the petroleum markets from which they have been long absent. Given such matters, the House of Saud, while preferring to reduce supply and increase prices is not about to give global market share to Iran to fund their proxy wars against the Saudis. As such they are continuing to lower prices as a form of economic warfare against Iran. Saudi Arabia has already begun pricing actions to lower petroleum costs in Italy and other places in the Mediterranean where Iran historically delivered its oil.

Source: I read the news and I slept at a Holiday Inn Express
Hi, I'm Troy McClure. You may remember me from such educational films as "Two Minus Three Equals Negative Fun" and "Firecrackers: The Silent Killer".

notquitefrugal

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #11849 on: January 08, 2016, 08:23:11 PM »
You can still win the lottery by randomly finding a winning ticket somewhere.

I figure the odds of winning are so low, I will probably only win with divine intervention.
As such, I'm sure the good lord can get the winning ticket to me if he decides I'm worthy of winning the lottery, rather than me needing to actually buy the ticket (I'm actually an atheist, but doesn't mean I'm not optimistic)

I generally have the exact same philosophy (chance of winning is approximately the same whether you purchase or not). I've found $20 lying on the ground twice in the past year or two, why not a winning lotto ticket?

We had an office pool today and I put in $5. Figured I'd really feel like shit if the pool won and I hadn't participated. The potential of not feeling like shit was worth $5. Also mentioned something about buying my own ticket to try to beat everyone.
Coworker: "You'll share that with us, right?"
Me: "Uh, no, but I might have lunch catered."