Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 7605107 times)

prognastat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18300 on: August 01, 2017, 07:51:05 AM »
Yes, that's the reason (I'm in the Netherlands) . You can't just learn to drive from your parents, you can only learn from an instructor. Expect instruction to cost 40-60 per hour and on average you'll need about 40. The driving theory exam costs 30, the road test about 250. The actual driver's license is 40 and before that you'll need to get a medical statement that you're fit to drive. If you get the all clear without needing further checks, that statement costs 30, if there are any concerns it's 60-120.

And yes, it's right that in here you learn to drive a manual. You can take a special exam for just automatic cars and you'll get a special driving license. As most cars are manual in here, very few people do that voluntarily - only if they just don't manage to learn driving a manual.

But if you only need to spend $300 on a license, of course that's a skill you need to learn. It is a really convenient thing to be able to do, even if you're not planning on buying your own car for the time being. You'll never know what happens. A while back we went to a festival 4 hours away with some friends. We took the train, the other couple drove. Only the guy had his driver's license. He sustained a bad knee injury and couldn't drive back. Another friend had to travel all that way just to get the other couple's car home. In situations like that it would be really convenient if more people were able to drive. I think about 50% of women in our group of friends don't drive and 25% of men. Men seem to be more interested in cars and more often have jobs that require a license. I know my partner wants a license more than I do (but he wants money in his investments more than he wants a driving license).

Yeah this is so true, it can get very expensive very quickly if you get in a negative loop where you fail and then next test you get more nervous because you've failed before and you've spent so much already. I ended up giving up because we had spent a year working on it along with failing 3 tests costing me almost 4k with nothing to show for it despite having no problems driving when it was just the instructor and I was planning on moving to the US soon. So I just stopped taking lessons and took the test here. Passed on the first go and cost me maybe $50.

Part of me feels that the Dutch system isn't only about safety, but also about generating revenue with how expensive the tests are. I do have to say though I never saw so many car accidents until I moved to the US. This could of course also just be due to the increased amount of driving Americans do compared to the Dutch.

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18301 on: August 01, 2017, 08:01:44 AM »
My office is near a high-end department store and it is the default shopping destination for the rest of my team. They tend to buy most things there, for prestige and convenience, rather than shopping around.

This includes lunches, groceries, alcohol, appliances, clothes, electronics, and linen, all of which could be purchased elsewhere for 30-40 per cent less.

Hope they're okay with working 30-40% longer
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

gReed Smith

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18302 on: August 01, 2017, 08:58:20 AM »
Part of me feels that the Dutch system isn't only about safety, but also about generating revenue with how expensive the tests are. I do have to say though I never saw so many car accidents until I moved to the US. This could of course also just be due to the increased amount of driving Americans do compared to the Dutch.

It's probably the amount of driving, but also every 16 year old can drive (and younger in come farm states).  If you eliminated all drivers under 18, quartered the number under 25 and reduced the number of miles driven by 50%, I bet car accidents would be rare.

As frustrating as it was to pay high car insurance rates when I was young, 90% of the drivers I see driving like morons are young men.  The balance are old - over 80.

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18303 on: August 01, 2017, 10:07:15 AM »
Part of me feels that the Dutch system isn't only about safety, but also about generating revenue with how expensive the tests are. I do have to say though I never saw so many car accidents until I moved to the US. This could of course also just be due to the increased amount of driving Americans do compared to the Dutch.

It's probably the amount of driving, but also every 16 year old can drive (and younger in come farm states).  If you eliminated all drivers under 18, quartered the number under 25 and reduced the number of miles driven by 50%, I bet car accidents would be rare.

As frustrating as it was to pay high car insurance rates when I was young, 90% of the drivers I see driving like morons are young men.  The balance are old - over 80.

"In the United States, the fatal crash rate per mile driven for 16-19 year-olds is nearly 3 times the rate for drivers ages 20 and over. Risk is highest at ages 16-17. In fact, the fatal crash rate per mile driven is nearly twice as high for 16-17 year-olds as it is for 18-19 year-olds."
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/teenagers/fatalityfacts/teenagers

Though it's hard to say how much is due to immaturity (young age) and how much is driving inexperience. If you pushed the minimum driving age up to 18 then age 18 drivers would be the ones with no driving experience. Though perhaps a longer permit time period (age 15-17, maybe?) would help with the experience side.

cerat0n1a

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18304 on: August 01, 2017, 10:44:02 AM »
Part of me feels that the Dutch system isn't only about safety, but also about generating revenue with how expensive the tests are. I do have to say though I never saw so many car accidents until I moved to the US. This could of course also just be due to the increased amount of driving Americans do compared to the Dutch.

Driving in nearly all parts of the US is massively easier than in most European countries - most cities were built post the invention of cars and nearly all are designed around the convenience of drivers, not pedestrians or cyclists. There's a few places where that is not true (Manhattan, Boston, SF, probably others) but on the whole it is. If I drive between cities in the UK, I have to be alert at all times to what is going on in front, behind, to the side and make decisions constantly. On a US interstate, I put on cruise control and occasionally change lane.

Young men driving like idiots is the rule everywhere, of course. One of the reasons why the UK has such a good car accident rate is that the number of under-21s who drive is relatively low. Of course, that only works if there are ways for those people to get about that don't involve putting them in charge of a potentially lethal ton of metal moving at high speed.

I paid for my 17 year old to have driving lessons and he's passed his test, but reckons it's a redundant skill because by the time he needs a car, they will all be self-driving. We'll see, I guess.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18305 on: August 01, 2017, 11:17:48 AM »
I paid for my 17 year old to have driving lessons and he's passed his test, but reckons it's a redundant skill because by the time he needs a car, they will all be self-driving. We'll see, I guess.

In the long run I think your son is right, but I think his timeline is off by 15-30 years before it gets affordable.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18306 on: August 01, 2017, 12:22:19 PM »
I paid for my 17 year old to have driving lessons and he's passed his test, but reckons it's a redundant skill because by the time he needs a car, they will all be self-driving. We'll see, I guess.

In the long run I think your son is right, but I think his timeline is off by 15-30 years before it gets affordable.
If you look at the history of EVs/Hybrids, it took them about 30 years to get to consumers.  There were military vehicles with these capabilities in the 80's.  DARPA has been doing it's self driving vehicle challenges for 10 years or so now?  So it's probably 20 years away to get to consumers and another 5-10 before they're widespread.  Who knows though, but it's the best comparison I could come up with.

And yes, there were EVs and Hybrid, and even self driving vehicles before the 80s, just more experimental than successful.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18307 on: August 01, 2017, 12:38:42 PM »
I paid for my 17 year old to have driving lessons and he's passed his test, but reckons it's a redundant skill because by the time he needs a car, they will all be self-driving. We'll see, I guess.

In the long run I think your son is right, but I think his timeline is off by 15-30 years before it gets affordable.
If you look at the history of EVs/Hybrids, it took them about 30 years to get to consumers.  There were military vehicles with these capabilities in the 80's.  DARPA has been doing it's self driving vehicle challenges for 10 years or so now?  So it's probably 20 years away to get to consumers and another 5-10 before they're widespread.  Who knows though, but it's the best comparison I could come up with.

And yes, there were EVs and Hybrid, and even self driving vehicles before the 80s, just more experimental than successful.

Well, the self driving cars are already here--check out Tesla's autopilot. I'm thinking that in about 2-5 years, we'll see them in more cars--I'd expect BMW and Ford to have them out very soon. And in another 5-10 years after that, it will become mainstream for a new car. So that is 7-15 years before it is mainstream for a new car. Add in to that that the average age of a car on the road in the US is about 12 years, you can make the assumption that in 19-27 years, the self driving vehicles will become the majority.

Just a guess obviously. From an enthusiast standpoint, I'm not so crazy about it, but from "other" standpoints, I'm a huge fan--commuting, the elderly, the sick/disabled, etc.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18308 on: August 01, 2017, 12:39:06 PM »
I paid for my 17 year old to have driving lessons and he's passed his test, but reckons it's a redundant skill because by the time he needs a car, they will all be self-driving. We'll see, I guess.

In the long run I think your son is right, but I think his timeline is off by 15-30 years before it gets affordable.

Eventually self-driving cars will probably the norm at some point in the future, but I agree it could take some time.

Looking at how fast the development of electric cars is going though, I wouldn't waste any lessons on trying to learn to drive a manual if  you have any difficulty doing that.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18309 on: August 01, 2017, 01:04:25 PM »
I paid for my 17 year old to have driving lessons and he's passed his test, but reckons it's a redundant skill because by the time he needs a car, they will all be self-driving. We'll see, I guess.

In the long run I think your son is right, but I think his timeline is off by 15-30 years before it gets affordable.
If you look at the history of EVs/Hybrids, it took them about 30 years to get to consumers.  There were military vehicles with these capabilities in the 80's.  DARPA has been doing it's self driving vehicle challenges for 10 years or so now?  So it's probably 20 years away to get to consumers and another 5-10 before they're widespread.  Who knows though, but it's the best comparison I could come up with.

And yes, there were EVs and Hybrid, and even self driving vehicles before the 80s, just more experimental than successful.

Well, the self driving cars are already here--check out Tesla's autopilot. I'm thinking that in about 2-5 years, we'll see them in more cars--I'd expect BMW and Ford to have them out very soon. And in another 5-10 years after that, it will become mainstream for a new car. So that is 7-15 years before it is mainstream for a new car. Add in to that that the average age of a car on the road in the US is about 12 years, you can make the assumption that in 19-27 years, the self driving vehicles will become the majority.

Just a guess obviously. From an enthusiast standpoint, I'm not so crazy about it, but from "other" standpoints, I'm a huge fan--commuting, the elderly, the sick/disabled, etc.
I think I remember seeing something about semis driving on an autopilot on interstates/highways in some states.  A human would remotely control it to get to the interstate, then put it on autopilot, and then drive another to the interstate.  The driver said he was in charge of like 10 different semis at any given time.  This isn't a full solution though, and it's not legal in all states, and not many semis are doing it.

In the 1970's a car called the Citicar was an electric and about 2000 were sold in the US.  So just because some are being sold doesn't mean they are ready to take off.  But your guess could be better than mine :)

talltexan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18310 on: August 01, 2017, 01:08:16 PM »
I just had a co-worker tell me about her car situation. She routinely leases cars, but tires of them after 1 year instead of finishing the lease. She's had an infinity, so unafraid of the luxury brands, but currently is in the middle of a series of Mazdas.

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18311 on: August 01, 2017, 01:23:42 PM »
I just had a co-worker tell me about her car situation. She routinely leases cars, but tires of them after 1 year instead of finishing the lease. She's had an infinity, so unafraid of the luxury brands, but currently is in the middle of a series of Mazdas.

I'll never understand how some people think that perpetually renting a car is a good financial move.
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

YogiKitti

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18312 on: August 01, 2017, 01:53:01 PM »
I just had a co-worker tell me about her car situation. She routinely leases cars, but tires of them after 1 year instead of finishing the lease. She's had an infinity, so unafraid of the luxury brands, but currently is in the middle of a series of Mazdas.

I'll never understand how some people think that perpetually renting a car is a good financial move.

I once asked a family member why they only lease instead of buy. Their answer was that if they planned to purchase a new car every 3 years (or whatever the term of the lease is), leasing is clearly the better option.

Why anyone would buy a new car that often is beyond me.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18313 on: August 01, 2017, 02:13:40 PM »
I just had a co-worker tell me about her car situation. She routinely leases cars, but tires of them after 1 year instead of finishing the lease. She's had an infinity, so unafraid of the luxury brands, but currently is in the middle of a series of Mazdas.

I'll never understand how some people think that perpetually renting a car is a good financial move.

I once asked a family member why they only lease instead of buy. Their answer was that if they planned to purchase a new car every 3 years (or whatever the term of the lease is), leasing is clearly the better option.

Why anyone would buy a new car that often is beyond me.

The payments are easier to budget for than the emergency fund for big issues. The idea of "just keep putting the car payment into a maintenance fund" doesn't happen for most people. Good in theory. Doesn't happen in practice for most.

Ironically, that is how I justify 3 cars though. If one goes down, I can take my time to fix it on my own.

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18314 on: August 01, 2017, 02:22:19 PM »
I once asked a family member why they only lease instead of buy. Their answer was that if they planned to purchase a new car every 3 years (or whatever the term of the lease is), leasing is clearly the better option.

Why anyone would buy a new car that often is beyond me.

lol I suppose when you compare it to the absolute worst decision you can make, yeah leasing probably isn't so bad.

The same rationalization can be applied toward anything though. "I was going to buy a $10,000 prada but I bought a $5,000 louis voitton instead... I'm so financially savvy!"
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18315 on: August 01, 2017, 02:40:15 PM »
I just had a co-worker tell me about her car situation. She routinely leases cars, but tires of them after 1 year instead of finishing the lease. She's had an infinity, so unafraid of the luxury brands, but currently is in the middle of a series of Mazdas.

I'll never understand how some people think that perpetually renting a car is a good financial move.

I once asked a family member why they only lease instead of buy. Their answer was that if they planned to purchase a new car every 3 years (or whatever the term of the lease is), leasing is clearly the better option.

Why anyone would buy a new car that often is beyond me.

The payments are easier to budget for than the emergency fund for big issues. The idea of "just keep putting the car payment into a maintenance fund" doesn't happen for most people. Good in theory. Doesn't happen in practice for most.

Ironically, that is how I justify 3 cars though. If one goes down, I can take my time to fix it on my own.

Yes, the argument that I've heard from people 'after 3 years, they're starting to cost money' and that's why they choose to buy or lease a new vehicle. A regular car payment doesn't feel like a 'cost' while a $500 repair bill does feel like that.

Along the same lines I have a coworker who chose a specific type of health insurance because it would reimburse him for the cost of certain medication his kid used. The medication isn't expensive at all, about 40/month and tax deductible, and picking a significantly more expensive insurance for his entire family cost him probably 3 x as much. His logic: "well, that's just the montly insurance payment that's going to be more expensive. You don't notice that. It's a lot more expensive to pay 3 months worth of medication in the pharmacy" .

I know what he earns, because I'm the bookkeeper, and I know his wife has a job that I can't imagine is paid badly. I'm kind of shocked that anyone with such a high income has such a cash flow problem that paying 100 in a pharmarcy every couple of months is an actual problem. His income alone is higher than my partner's and mine combined and we would have absolutely no problem paying a bill like that a couple of times a year.

lucylu

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18316 on: August 01, 2017, 05:34:29 PM »
A coworker just posted, asking for advice on how much to contribute to an HSA if you don't ever go to the dr. Despite getting several answers all saying "the max!", outlining reasons like tax free $$ you can invest for retirement, a health care buffer in case something big happens, health care $$ you can use 20 years from now, potentially lower tax income bracket, etc etc etc - the response was "HR just told me the company will contribute their $1500 regardless of if I contribute. Since I just finished paying off a huge hospital bill (thought they NEVER went to the dr?!), I'm not going to contribute anything. " <face palm>.  High earner with working spouse, 2 small children. I would love to know how many people contribute to our company 401k or ESPP?

nnls

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18317 on: August 01, 2017, 05:56:09 PM »
Speaking of co-workers and cars, my coworker mentioned to me he is looking for a new car, as his current car has almost 20000km on it "cause that's about the time where you can trade and break even, almost like renting a car for two years, give it back with what you've paid off "

I ask him the type of car and it turns out its the exact same make/model as current car he just wants this one in a different colour. This new car will be the third car of this model but he wants this one in this colour as its limited edition and the last of its kind to be made in Australia before they start getting made off shore. He has had his current car for 16 months and the one before that was owned for about a year.

But the crazier thing is that because this is a limited edition special car he wont be able to drive it that much as he wants it kept in great condition, so he will need to buy another every day car. Bringing his total to three cars, plus the car his wife has.

And then he started talking about how he will need to build/buy a house with a bigger garage to fit the four cars.


mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18318 on: August 01, 2017, 09:53:08 PM »
Speaking of co-workers and cars, my coworker mentioned to me he is looking for a new car, as his current car has almost 20000km on it "cause that's about the time where you can trade and break even, almost like renting a car for two years, give it back with what you've paid off "

I ask him the type of car and it turns out its the exact same make/model as current car he just wants this one in a different colour. This new car will be the third car of this model but he wants this one in this colour as its limited edition and the last of its kind to be made in Australia before they start getting made off shore. He has had his current car for 16 months and the one before that was owned for about a year.

But the crazier thing is that because this is a limited edition special car he wont be able to drive it that much as he wants it kept in great condition, so he will need to buy another every day car. Bringing his total to three cars, plus the car his wife has.

And then he started talking about how he will need to build/buy a house with a bigger garage to fit the four cars.

Hope he enjoys the new Commodore.

nnls

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18319 on: August 01, 2017, 10:14:07 PM »
Speaking of co-workers and cars, my coworker mentioned to me he is looking for a new car, as his current car has almost 20000km on it "cause that's about the time where you can trade and break even, almost like renting a car for two years, give it back with what you've paid off "

I ask him the type of car and it turns out its the exact same make/model as current car he just wants this one in a different colour. This new car will be the third car of this model but he wants this one in this colour as its limited edition and the last of its kind to be made in Australia before they start getting made off shore. He has had his current car for 16 months and the one before that was owned for about a year.

But the crazier thing is that because this is a limited edition special car he wont be able to drive it that much as he wants it kept in great condition, so he will need to buy another every day car. Bringing his total to three cars, plus the car his wife has.

And then he started talking about how he will need to build/buy a house with a bigger garage to fit the four cars.

Hope he enjoys the new Commodore.

I am sure he will, he has liked his last 4 commodores

frugledoc

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18320 on: August 02, 2017, 02:17:56 AM »
I paid for my 17 year old to have driving lessons and he's passed his test, but reckons it's a redundant skill because by the time he needs a car, they will all be self-driving. We'll see, I guess.

In the long run I think your son is right, but I think his timeline is off by 15-30 years before it gets affordable.
If you look at the history of EVs/Hybrids, it took them about 30 years to get to consumers.  There were military vehicles with these capabilities in the 80's.  DARPA has been doing it's self driving vehicle challenges for 10 years or so now?  So it's probably 20 years away to get to consumers and another 5-10 before they're widespread.  Who knows though, but it's the best comparison I could come up with.

And yes, there were EVs and Hybrid, and even self driving vehicles before the 80s, just more experimental than successful.

Well, the self driving cars are already here--check out Tesla's autopilot. I'm thinking that in about 2-5 years, we'll see them in more cars--I'd expect BMW and Ford to have them out very soon. And in another 5-10 years after that, it will become mainstream for a new car. So that is 7-15 years before it is mainstream for a new car. Add in to that that the average age of a car on the road in the US is about 12 years, you can make the assumption that in 19-27 years, the self driving vehicles will become the majority.

Just a guess obviously. From an enthusiast standpoint, I'm not so crazy about it, but from "other" standpoints, I'm a huge fan--commuting, the elderly, the sick/disabled, etc.

I'm not buying another car until I can get a self driving one in the UK. 

I've got a Skoda Octavia Diesel with 74k miles, should easily do 200k with maintenance. 

UK gov is banning new sales of petrol and diesel cars from 2040 but don't think it will last until then.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18321 on: August 02, 2017, 03:11:59 AM »
I paid for my 17 year old to have driving lessons and he's passed his test, but reckons it's a redundant skill because by the time he needs a car, they will all be self-driving. We'll see, I guess.

In the long run I think your son is right, but I think his timeline is off by 15-30 years before it gets affordable.
If you look at the history of EVs/Hybrids, it took them about 30 years to get to consumers.  There were military vehicles with these capabilities in the 80's.  DARPA has been doing it's self driving vehicle challenges for 10 years or so now?  So it's probably 20 years away to get to consumers and another 5-10 before they're widespread.  Who knows though, but it's the best comparison I could come up with.

And yes, there were EVs and Hybrid, and even self driving vehicles before the 80s, just more experimental than successful.

Well, the self driving cars are already here--check out Tesla's autopilot. I'm thinking that in about 2-5 years, we'll see them in more cars--I'd expect BMW and Ford to have them out very soon. And in another 5-10 years after that, it will become mainstream for a new car. So that is 7-15 years before it is mainstream for a new car. Add in to that that the average age of a car on the road in the US is about 12 years, you can make the assumption that in 19-27 years, the self driving vehicles will become the majority.

Just a guess obviously. From an enthusiast standpoint, I'm not so crazy about it, but from "other" standpoints, I'm a huge fan--commuting, the elderly, the sick/disabled, etc.

I'm not buying another car until I can get a self driving one in the UK. 

I've got a Skoda Octavia Diesel with 74k miles, should easily do 200k with maintenance. 

UK gov is banning new sales of petrol and diesel cars from 2040 but don't think it will last until then.

I think that's going to happen in a few years. If you're buying a new petrol / diesel car right now, you should be prepared to drive it until it breaks down beyond repair and not rely on the car keeping its value in the future.

With the growing amount of affordable electric cars available, the growing amount of people that have solar panels their roof (especially in new developments it's basiscally standard nowadays) and the growing availability of public charging stations, electric cars are going to be so common in a few years that the value of used petrol and diesel cars is going to plummet. At that point, banks and lease companies will probably stop funding loans and lease contracts for petrol and diesel cars which means the sales of new petrol and diesel cars are going to plummet too, which in turn will probably scare the cash buyer into buying electric too. I see this happening within 5-10 years from now. I think by 2030 new petrol and diesel cars will be a thing of the past, there'll simply not be any market for them anymore.

marty998

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18322 on: August 02, 2017, 05:59:39 AM »
Speaking of co-workers and cars, my coworker mentioned to me he is looking for a new car, as his current car has almost 20000km on it "cause that's about the time where you can trade and break even, almost like renting a car for two years, give it back with what you've paid off "

I ask him the type of car and it turns out its the exact same make/model as current car he just wants this one in a different colour. This new car will be the third car of this model but he wants this one in this colour as its limited edition and the last of its kind to be made in Australia before they start getting made off shore. He has had his current car for 16 months and the one before that was owned for about a year.

But the crazier thing is that because this is a limited edition special car he wont be able to drive it that much as he wants it kept in great condition, so he will need to buy another every day car. Bringing his total to three cars, plus the car his wife has.

And then he started talking about how he will need to build/buy a house with a bigger garage to fit the four cars.

Hope he enjoys the new Commodore.

I am sure he will, he has liked his last 4 commodores

Oh my god 4x Green slips, 4x regos, 4x insurances...

I'm in pain just thinking about that.

marktbaldridge

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18323 on: August 02, 2017, 06:30:37 AM »
Overheard at Work:

"They say you should be saving at least 15% for retirement, but I want to have fun now when I'm young! Not when I'm old and can't do anything."

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18324 on: August 02, 2017, 06:55:53 AM »
Overheard at Work:

"They say you should be saving at least 15% for retirement, but I want to have fun now when I'm young! Not when I'm old and can't do anything."

Wow... I hear this mentality a lot. But at only 15% savings you're not really saving to have "fun" when you're old. You're saving just enough so that you can buy food and keep a roof over your head. You'd think that would take priority over fun now...

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18325 on: August 02, 2017, 07:52:29 AM »
Overheard at Work:

"They say you should be saving at least 15% for retirement, but I want to have fun now when I'm young! Not when I'm old and can't do anything."

Wow... I hear this mentality a lot. But at only 15% savings you're not really saving to have "fun" when you're old. You're saving just enough so that you can buy food and keep a roof over your head. You'd think that would take priority over fun now...

Well everyone knows that it's impossible to have any fun on only 85% of your salary, whether you make $30K or $100K. You have to spend at least 100%, maybe more, for fun to occur.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 09:43:43 AM by cheapass »
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18326 on: August 02, 2017, 10:39:00 AM »
Overheard at Work:

"They say you should be saving at least 15% for retirement, but I want to have fun now when I'm young! Not when I'm old and can't do anything."

Wow... I hear this mentality a lot. But at only 15% savings you're not really saving to have "fun" when you're old. You're saving just enough so that you can buy food and keep a roof over your head. You'd think that would take priority over fun now...

Well everyone knows that it's impossible to have any fun on only 85% of your salary, whether you make $30K or $100K. You have to spend at least 100%, maybe more, for fun to occur.
To have fun, you need to take a credit. It is impossible to have fun without the nerve tingling of the worries of never being able to pay it back!

BDWW

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18327 on: August 02, 2017, 11:01:50 AM »
Overheard at Work:

"They say you should be saving at least 15% for retirement, but I want to have fun now when I'm young! Not when I'm old and can't do anything."

Wow... I hear this mentality a lot. But at only 15% savings you're not really saving to have "fun" when you're old. You're saving just enough so that you can buy food and keep a roof over your head. You'd think that would take priority over fun now...

If you actually save 15% from say 25 or even 30 until traditional retirement age 65, that should provide you with much more than a bare bones* retirement. The trouble is most people don't even save 15% or even 10%.

*Some basic numbers
$50000 salary at 15% for 40 years at 6%** return ~ 1.1 million. Add in social security and that should definitely replace your pre-retirement income. 
**Conservative, but discounts inflation, and likely your income probably increases at a least a portion of inflation.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18328 on: August 02, 2017, 12:15:47 PM »
Overheard at Work:

"They say you should be saving at least 15% for retirement, but I want to have fun now when I'm young! Not when I'm old and can't do anything."

Wow... I hear this mentality a lot. But at only 15% savings you're not really saving to have "fun" when you're old. You're saving just enough so that you can buy food and keep a roof over your head. You'd think that would take priority over fun now...

If you actually save 15% from say 25 or even 30 until traditional retirement age 65, that should provide you with much more than a bare bones* retirement. The trouble is most people don't even save 15% or even 10%.

*Some basic numbers
$50000 salary at 15% for 40 years at 6%** return ~ 1.1 million. Add in social security and that should definitely replace your pre-retirement income. 
**Conservative, but discounts inflation, and likely your income probably increases at a least a portion of inflation.

I mean, how did people think 15% became a rule of thumb in the first place?  It's not pulled out of thin air

gooki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18329 on: August 03, 2017, 02:57:10 AM »
10% is the rule of thumb because Monica on Friends said so.
Follow me on my journey to FI.

nnls

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18330 on: August 03, 2017, 03:05:27 AM »
Speaking of co-workers and cars, my coworker mentioned to me he is looking for a new car, as his current car has almost 20000km on it "cause that's about the time where you can trade and break even, almost like renting a car for two years, give it back with what you've paid off "

I ask him the type of car and it turns out its the exact same make/model as current car he just wants this one in a different colour. This new car will be the third car of this model but he wants this one in this colour as its limited edition and the last of its kind to be made in Australia before they start getting made off shore. He has had his current car for 16 months and the one before that was owned for about a year.

But the crazier thing is that because this is a limited edition special car he wont be able to drive it that much as he wants it kept in great condition, so he will need to buy another every day car. Bringing his total to three cars, plus the car his wife has.

And then he started talking about how he will need to build/buy a house with a bigger garage to fit the four cars.

Hope he enjoys the new Commodore.

I am sure he will, he has liked his last 4 commodores

Oh my god 4x Green slips, 4x regos, 4x insurances...

I'm in pain just thinking about that.

he only has a maximum of three cars at any one time, plus his missus car. so I suppose that is 4, but i feel like maybe one of them isnt street legal anyway, its for the drags, or maybe that's an additional car?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18331 on: August 03, 2017, 10:45:02 AM »
This story is kind of an eye roll followed by a positive end... a now former co-worker just took a sweet new gig where he gets a company vehicle that he is allowed to use as a personal vehicle. As in, it's considered part of the compensation package. He can take it on vacation if he'd like. I mentioned to him that my husband has something similar (can't take it on vacation, but does get to drive it home and is allowed to use it for local errands) and it works out great for us as it allows us to only have one car. Former co-worker looks at me like I'm crazy and says, "but I like my truck! I have to keep it...." and so on. Note that work vehicle is also a truck. That is brand new and nicer then his personal truck. And will be replaced every 5 years. All maintenance & fuel covered by the company. I shrugged and moved on thinking, "hell, we might figure out how to be a no car family if Mr. Hudsoncat had that kind of work vehicle!"

The fun part of the story is this: Current co-worker was part of the conversation. Turns out the convo made wheels start turning for her. Her husband has a similar situation as mine, but it never occurred to them to look at how much they actually use the second vehicle. They did the math and figured out his car was worth more than they owe on it (At worst should break even, might even come out a little ahead with the right buyer!) and they hardly ever drive it. So they are now looking to sell it, be a one car (+ work vehicle family) and have plans on how to invest the money from the former car payment + insurance.

Uturn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18332 on: August 03, 2017, 12:46:14 PM »
I'm amazed that I have been able to out earn my stupidity.   Many years ago I had a job that came with a company car with unlimited personal use, even gas was company paid.  It was a nice looking, comfortable Buick sedan.  But, being young and dumb, I wanted a shiny new 4x4.  You know, for those harsh Dallas winters and non-paved roads.  Part of the criteria that I used to justify the purchase (actually a lease) was just think of the resale value of a low mileage truck!  All the miles are going on the company car!
It's not about money, it's about mindset

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18333 on: August 04, 2017, 05:17:20 AM »

The payments are easier to budget for than the emergency fund for big issues. The idea of "just keep putting the car payment into a maintenance fund" doesn't happen for most people. Good in theory. Doesn't happen in practice for most.

Ironically, that is how I justify 3 cars though. If one goes down, I can take my time to fix it on my own.

Before I found MMM I used to lease my car. I stopped doing this just under 18 months ago, bought a used car outright, and as per the advice of Dave Ramsey I put the same amount of money aside each month. This sinking fund has paid for the servicing, maintenance, insurance and road fund licence on both of our cars. I am now getting to the stage where there is more money in there than I will need for the year, so will transfer a chunk of it to my investment account soon. Oh, and I have an emergency fund that could cover the cost of a used car as well :)

It's good advice if people are willing to use it!

Rowellen

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18334 on: August 04, 2017, 06:43:46 AM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.

marcela

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18335 on: August 04, 2017, 07:38:18 AM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18336 on: August 04, 2017, 09:42:18 AM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

What is a corporate skirt?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18337 on: August 04, 2017, 10:28:11 AM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

What is a corporate skirt?
Depends on the corporation.

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18338 on: August 04, 2017, 10:33:58 AM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

What is a corporate skirt?
Sounds like a white-collar crime.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18339 on: August 04, 2017, 10:37:31 AM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

I googled it. You buy something and pay later in four equal instalments. It seems heavily geared towards women buying clothes. Their front page has a link to their commitment to supporting responsible spending. LOLOLOLOLOL.

Roe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18340 on: August 04, 2017, 12:05:13 PM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

I googled it. You buy something and pay later in four equal instalments. It seems heavily geared towards women buying clothes. Their front page has a link to their commitment to supporting responsible spending. LOLOLOLOLOL.

I had to google it aswell, sadly the swedish version of the site was much more responsible. Instead of paying in four instalments, the headline pushed how much safer it is to not give your cc details to unknown websites, and instead give it to the completely reliable Afterpay.
Beans&rice, my love!

Rowellen

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18341 on: August 04, 2017, 04:05:39 PM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

I googled it. You buy something and pay later in four equal instalments. It seems heavily geared towards women buying clothes. Their front page has a link to their commitment to supporting responsible spending. LOLOLOLOLOL.

Yep that's right. It's kind of like laybuy but you get your stuff straight away. So it's too expensive for her to pay cash upfront even with her full time salary. I'm not sure exactly what she earns but I'd be surprised if it's less than me.

What is a corporate skirt?

I just meant the style/look that's designed for female office workers. Usually part of a suit. Technically you could wear it elsewhere but no-one does because it looks like work clothes.

Sounds like a white-collar crime.

It should be lol.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18342 on: August 04, 2017, 07:57:25 PM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

I googled it. You buy something and pay later in four equal instalments. It seems heavily geared towards women buying clothes. Their front page has a link to their commitment to supporting responsible spending. LOLOLOLOLOL.

My former colleague was really into this. She would make a big deal out of paying something off because "now I can buy something else"!

"It's great when you want to buy something expensive but can't afford it all in one go."

(I didn't tell her that if she can't afford it all in one go, she just can't afford it.)

She ran into a few complications, of course.

Bought a bra through Afterpay. It didn't fit so they told her to return it to a store. The store only issues credits, not refunds, so she ended with no bra and still had to pay Afterpay.

JLee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18343 on: August 05, 2017, 01:52:07 AM »
You guys have me doing the math now for if I worked til 65 doing absolutely nothing other than maxing tax-advantaged accounts.

...

Over $4mil inflation-adjusted by the time I turn 65.

Damn.

Roe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18344 on: August 05, 2017, 05:25:01 AM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

I googled it. You buy something and pay later in four equal instalments. It seems heavily geared towards women buying clothes. Their front page has a link to their commitment to supporting responsible spending. LOLOLOLOLOL.

My former colleague was really into this. She would make a big deal out of paying something off because "now I can buy something else"!

"It's great when you want to buy something expensive but can't afford it all in one go."

(I didn't tell her that if she can't afford it all in one go, she just can't afford it.)

She ran into a few complications, of course.

Bought a bra through Afterpay. It didn't fit so they told her to return it to a store. The store only issues credits, not refunds, so she ended with no bra and still had to pay Afterpay.

She couldn't afford a BRA? Someone holding down a job didn't have enough money to buy a bra?

My poor mind. That bra better be one of VS bejeweled ones.
Beans&rice, my love!

kayvent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18345 on: August 05, 2017, 07:59:39 AM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

I googled it. You buy something and pay later in four equal instalments. It seems heavily geared towards women buying clothes. Their front page has a link to their commitment to supporting responsible spending. LOLOLOLOLOL.

My former colleague was really into this. She would make a big deal out of paying something off because "now I can buy something else"!

"It's great when you want to buy something expensive but can't afford it all in one go."

(I didn't tell her that if she can't afford it all in one go, she just can't afford it.)

She ran into a few complications, of course.

Bought a bra through Afterpay. It didn't fit so they told her to return it to a store. The store only issues credits, not refunds, so she ended with no bra and still had to pay Afterpay.

She couldn't afford a BRA? Someone holding down a job didn't have enough money to buy a bra?

My poor mind. That bra better be one of VS bejeweled ones.

Generally there's roughly a linear correlation between bra durability and bra price. So one can get 10$-20$ bras often or get 40$-80$ bras less often. My opinion is that either a woman shouldn't wear a bra or should wear a comfortable bra appropriate for their day's activities. The middle ground, which many American women put themselves, where they buy bras that are cheap and too small and don't support their racks, is sadly horrible in every aspect.

I digress. I am going to guess their co-worker brought a variety of cloths on after pay and the bra was one of them. Or perhaps they are so on the trend of doing this that they don't think second of it. After pay isn't much different than buying something on your credit card because the debit account is empty.

nnls

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18346 on: August 05, 2017, 05:04:11 PM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

I googled it. You buy something and pay later in four equal instalments. It seems heavily geared towards women buying clothes. Their front page has a link to their commitment to supporting responsible spending. LOLOLOLOLOL.

My former colleague was really into this. She would make a big deal out of paying something off because "now I can buy something else"!

"It's great when you want to buy something expensive but can't afford it all in one go."

(I didn't tell her that if she can't afford it all in one go, she just can't afford it.)

She ran into a few complications, of course.

Bought a bra through Afterpay. It didn't fit so they told her to return it to a store. The store only issues credits, not refunds, so she ended with no bra and still had to pay Afterpay.

She couldn't afford a BRA? Someone holding down a job didn't have enough money to buy a bra?

My poor mind. That bra better be one of VS bejeweled ones.

Generally there's roughly a linear correlation between bra durability and bra price. So one can get 10$-20$ bras often or get 40$-80$ bras less often. My opinion is that either a woman shouldn't wear a bra or should wear a comfortable bra appropriate for their day's activities. The middle ground, which many American women put themselves, where they buy bras that are cheap and too small and don't support their racks, is sadly horrible in every aspect.

I digress. I am going to guess their co-worker brought a variety of cloths on after pay and the bra was one of them. Or perhaps they are so on the trend of doing this that they don't think second of it. After pay isn't much different than buying something on your credit card because the debit account is empty.
It could also have been a honey birdette (I  may be spelling that wrong) bra, I know they do afterpay as my friends use it, and those bras can cost upwards of $300 just cause they look pretty

aceyou

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18347 on: August 05, 2017, 08:10:46 PM »
Not overheard at work, but sad story overheard at Car Repair Shop.

Background... I went in for a small issue with my wife's Prius.  Woman next to to me, about 30, had small child sleeping on her.  I asked if she wanted water or anything, since she was obviously there a while and couldn't move.  She said she was getting a couple brakes replaced. 

Things get bad for her... Mechanic comes over (runs the shop, super honest and knowledgeable guy) to her with a very worried look on her face and gives her a list of about 10 things that absolutely must be replaced, because it's super dangerous to drive otherwise. Says $1500 to fix the ABSOLUTE must do's. 

Her: But I JUST had so-and-so fix almost all those things for me, I spent $500 on the fixes. 

Him: Let's take a look at the car, I want to show you the things that you said were replaced.  None of them are replaced...they go into the shop together. 

A bit later, they come out and she's super bummed, obviously does not have $1500 to her name.

Then she says to me, "man, and I just bought the car because when I went to a dealership, I thought to myself, yeah, I can afford those monthly payments".

The whole situation made me feel bad.  She seemed like a good person who cared a ton for her child, probably works very hard.  Just has no money sense. Saving would probably be difficult for her anyway, as her income probably isn't anything near the norm on these boards, but it's so much harder when you don't know how money works in the first place. 

She had no idea how to buy a car.  She had no idea she was getting ripped off from her previous "mechanic".  The best I could do was empathize with her and confirm to her that this mechanic is an honest, fair person, and that I'd trust him.  And to wish her the very best. 

I bet each day brings on stress-inducing money based decisions that are complete afterthoughts for me.  It made me appreciate how lucky I am that something like going to a mechanic is in no way a stressful endeavor.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18348 on: August 06, 2017, 03:17:34 AM »
I bet each day brings on stress-inducing money based decisions that are complete afterthoughts for me.  It made me appreciate how lucky I am that something like going to a mechanic is in no way a stressful endeavor.
Science has shown that poor people make so many bad decisions - including money - because they have to make to make so many money decisions.
Decision fatigue - you only have a certain amount of "willpower" and if that is used up because you have to think "do I have the money for that" even when just buying toilet paper, then you make bad decisions.

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18349 on: August 06, 2017, 03:40:53 AM »
I bet each day brings on stress-inducing money based decisions that are complete afterthoughts for me.  It made me appreciate how lucky I am that something like going to a mechanic is in no way a stressful endeavor.
Science has shown that poor people make so many bad decisions - including money - because they have to make to make so many money decisions.
Decision fatigue - you only have a certain amount of "willpower" and if that is used up because you have to think "do I have the money for that" even when just buying toilet paper, then you make bad decisions.
I was always wondering if that decision fatigued was real science or self help guru science. Do you know any sources?