Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8772433 times)

boarder42

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17400 on: May 02, 2017, 09:45:21 AM »
It's extremely frustrating, but it seems like the cycle is being set up to repeat itself:
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year...

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.   

I feel like that many times leads to what was mentioned earlier in this thread:

...The coworker had just divorced her husband who, as a head of a hospital wing, was bringing in over half a million dollars a year... So they divorced, the judge didn't award alimony, and she had to go back to work after many years of staying at home.  She landed in my group, earning less than one tenth of what her ex used to bring home. 
...boy, dealing with a fallen socialite is something I will not miss.

Hopefully you can influence her onto the path of self sufficiency! FWIW, I'm a male engineer and some of the brightest people I know are independent female engineers that work at my company.

I feel like female engineers have much more drive than their male counterparts in most cases.  They are out to prove they can hack it in what is traditionally male dominated.  My wife is one and she has issues with RE b/c of the drive to prove she can do it all ... many others i run into are quite similar.  - more so in the millenial generation than previous generations as well.  maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.
Interesting.

As a Gen-X female engineer, I have to say that my experience with female engineers is that yes, on average, we have more drive.  Part of that is that we've had to have more drive.

In high school, we were outnumbered.
In college, we were really outnumbered. 
You had to really WANT it to be an engineer.

It's kind of like how some people like to compare Indian and Chinese engineers with Americans, and talk about how much BETTER the Asian engineers are.  When really: for the most part, we only get the cream of the crop here.  It's *very hard* (or used to be) to get to the US from Asia to go to college or grad school.  So it's not a fair comparison.

My experience with female engineers ranges from boomers (aged >60) down to millenials.  I'd have to say that all of them have been pretty driven.

However, your comment about "older around the block engineers" was interesting.  I've found, as I get "older" (I'm almost 47), that - it kind of sucks.  There are literally no other women in my building.  Most of the senior female engineers here have quit in frustration or been laid off (we had a large layoff and shut down an entire division).  The glass ceiling in my industry is pretty damned thick, and it can be wearing.  I've had my own series of ups and downs, and I tell you - the downs were pretty bad.  It only takes a single bad, sexist boss to really derail you for several years.  Luckily, that guy got laid off in the same large division layoff.

If other senior women have similar experiences, I can imagine that the glass ceiling, getting talked over in meetings, being ignored, being asked to take notes, getting passed over for promotion - well, it's pretty wearing.  At some point I had to really come to terms with it and make a decision - fighting it was really not good for my health.  So, I took a deep breath, got a new boss, decided to make the best of the job that I have.  For now.  Learn new things and try to enjoy each day and each project.

thats a pretty good take on the why of the drive going away in some i've seen.  i bet that has a lot to do with it.  and yeah my wife had her first Lead tell her flat out he didnt think women should be engineers and that her question was dumb. he was 65+ years old and was not fired for the statement.  on top of that she got a terrible review from him that year that cost her even an inflation based raise.  So i can really see how that could wear on someone over a career.  She's not outspoken, but did report it.  If I were in that situation I'd have called HR into the room as their only basis for not giving me a raise was based on a sexist bigots view of my work. 

I see many women advance around me at my company.  Maybe the previous gen's have helped wear down that glass ceiling.  I would say almost a disproportionate number of women to men are advancing when you look at the number of men to women.  but i dont personally care who the person is sex or otherwise if they are good at something keep promoting them thru that, my Dept manager is a woman and she is fantastic. Its actually helped us recruit more women to our team vs another team that has 2 Males leading it.  Its a strong selling point for many female college graduates to have a female boss breaking down barriers above them.

Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17401 on: May 02, 2017, 10:41:07 AM »
Chatting with instructor from a class the company gave. He mention he had moved 4 months ago to a different nearby town. Then he mentioned he had a storage unit.

"Well you have to be careful with those," I said. "If you keep your stuff in storage for too long next thing you know, you could have replaced everything in it for what the fees are over the months." (I said this thinking that he had gotten a storage unit to coincide with his move)

I think what I said didn't register in the least. "I've had the storage unit for 8 years. It's 8x12, more space than I'll ever use. And it is only $75 a month!"

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17402 on: May 02, 2017, 10:49:08 AM »
And $900 a year... It adds up doesn't it...

I wonder if his brain would registered that statement?

mbl

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17403 on: May 02, 2017, 12:01:04 PM »
Quote
I feel like female engineers have much more drive than their male counterparts in most cases.  They are out to prove they can hack it in what is traditionally male dominated.  My wife is one and she has issues with RE b/c of the drive to prove she can do it all ... many others i run into are quite similar.  - more so in the millenial generation than previous generations as well.  maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.

I can't tell where you're from, where you've worked or how old you are...perhaps I missed it in the previous posts.

I'm one of those female engineers that has been working over 35 years.   California, across Canada, Europe, New York, and a number of other assignments. 

Not sure what radar space you function in but my experience doesn't support your statement.   

Engineers whether they've been men or women vary based on all that has gone into making them and bringing them to their current position.   I've worked in the defense industry which while male dominated still provided women opportunities that were based on their abilities, work ethic and personality.   

 To say that you "feel"  and go on to generalize that female engineers have more drive based on their gender is so ridiculous that I laughed when I read that comment.   As I laugh at any other sweeping generalization.   
I've encountered female engineers who continued as individual contributors, team leads, project/product managers, dept mgrs, division mgrs,  VPs,  and all the way up.   And men who've been in the same type of positions.   

I think in many cases their drive was equal to those that they aspired to work amongst...whether male or female.   They possessed the traits, knowledge, experience or whatever was being sought for the particular jobs that they were seeking.  As well as the network relationships,  luck, or just plain old hard work.  And there were those that were promoted or given opportunities simply based on ruthlessness...this applies to people....not necessarily either gender.

Your statement says that the only reason older female engineers are tolerated is because of the need to maintain diversity?  What BS. 

mbl

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17404 on: May 02, 2017, 12:16:43 PM »
Downside is that when I go elsewhere (other than NY/CT) and people order in/take us out for pizza, it's invariably inferior.  Was at our office in Tulsa once and they ordered in from "the best pizza place in town" and it was almost inedible.

I've lived in Buffalo for twenty-plus years now. I once ordered wings from the hotel bar when I was at a conference in Tempe, Arizona. I know the taste of disappointment.
I've lived in California for 20 years.

Imagine what it's like when my family in western PA want to take me out for Mexican food.

Mexican food in Western NY or PA....not sure where you are referring to but in the small towns in upstate NY there are some great small Mom and Pop Chicano eateries.   
What you might be overlooking or simply not know is that the first generation residents of these communities came here to work on the many farms that hire them for the harvests.   Over time many have stayed and opened businesses(particularly restaurants) in these towns.  I've lived in California and these places seem just as good to me and just as "authentic" to suit the tastes of any purist.

boarder42

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17405 on: May 02, 2017, 01:53:08 PM »
Quote
I feel like female engineers have much more drive than their male counterparts in most cases.  They are out to prove they can hack it in what is traditionally male dominated.  My wife is one and she has issues with RE b/c of the drive to prove she can do it all ... many others i run into are quite similar.  - more so in the millenial generation than previous generations as well.  maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.

I can't tell where you're from, where you've worked or how old you are...perhaps I missed it in the previous posts.

I'm one of those female engineers that has been working over 35 years.   California, across Canada, Europe, New York, and a number of other assignments. 

Not sure what radar space you function in but my experience doesn't support your statement.   

Engineers whether they've been men or women vary based on all that has gone into making them and bringing them to their current position.   I've worked in the defense industry which while male dominated still provided women opportunities that were based on their abilities, work ethic and personality.   

 To say that you "feel"  and go on to generalize that female engineers have more drive based on their gender is so ridiculous that I laughed when I read that comment.   As I laugh at any other sweeping generalization.   
I've encountered female engineers who continued as individual contributors, team leads, project/product managers, dept mgrs, division mgrs,  VPs,  and all the way up.   And men who've been in the same type of positions.   

I think in many cases their drive was equal to those that they aspired to work amongst...whether male or female.   They possessed the traits, knowledge, experience or whatever was being sought for the particular jobs that they were seeking.  As well as the network relationships,  luck, or just plain old hard work.  And there were those that were promoted or given opportunities simply based on ruthlessness...this applies to people....not necessarily either gender.

Your statement says that the only reason older female engineers are tolerated is because of the need to maintain diversity?  What BS.

notice i didnt say ALL but its cool to get offended now so i get it. why not continue reading the constructive conversation that happened after that.

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17406 on: May 02, 2017, 02:41:09 PM »
Quote
maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.

Your statement says that the only reason older female engineers are tolerated is because of the need to maintain diversity?  What BS.

notice i didnt say ALL but its cool to get offended now so i get it. why not continue reading the constructive conversation that happened after that.

It's just as insulting to stereotype "alot" of a group of people as it is to say that "all" of them have this trait. Neither is true.

Also: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17407 on: May 02, 2017, 03:03:49 PM »
Quote
maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.

Your statement says that the only reason older female engineers are tolerated is because of the need to maintain diversity?  What BS.

notice i didnt say ALL but its cool to get offended now so i get it. why not continue reading the constructive conversation that happened after that.

It's just as insulting to stereotype "alot" of a group of people as it is to say that "all" of them have this trait. Neither is true.

Also: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
I love that link.

Why is "a lot" just as bad as "all"?  To me "a lot" means many, not necessarily more than half, just more than I was expecting.  Also, it was limited to his experience, and he even said it may not be true everywhere.  I'm not sure how what he said isn't true either.  I don't see that many female engineers, so if I saw one who had their job due to a diversification requirement, that would be a lot to me. 

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17408 on: May 02, 2017, 04:09:24 PM »
Downside is that when I go elsewhere (other than NY/CT) and people order in/take us out for pizza, it's invariably inferior.  Was at our office in Tulsa once and they ordered in from "the best pizza place in town" and it was almost inedible.

I've lived in Buffalo for twenty-plus years now. I once ordered wings from the hotel bar when I was at a conference in Tempe, Arizona. I know the taste of disappointment.
I've lived in California for 20 years.

Imagine what it's like when my family in western PA want to take me out for Mexican food.

Mexican food in Western NY or PA....not sure where you are referring to but in the small towns in upstate NY there are some great small Mom and Pop Chicano eateries.   
What you might be overlooking or simply not know is that the first generation residents of these communities came here to work on the many farms that hire them for the harvests.   Over time many have stayed and opened businesses(particularly restaurants) in these towns.  I've lived in California and these places seem just as good to me and just as "authentic" to suit the tastes of any purist.
Oh I'm sure they exist.  Just not in my specific home town!

SavinMaven

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17409 on: May 03, 2017, 07:34:04 AM »
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year, lives with her parents and must have a large closet because she seems to have a never ending supply of fashionable clothes and shoes. 

Maybe she's a spender, and maybe she's not... as a Gen X'er I'm often delighted at the creativity of the young'uns... they've made renting popular for a wide variety of goods: bike rentals from point to point in big cities, Rent the Runway so you can borrow designer clothes instead of buying them, rental wedding dresses - in fact you can even rent a regular wardrobe, from Le Tote or a similar company. It would LOOK like you have a never ending supply of clothes, but only because you pay $39/month and send each piece back after you wear it once. :)

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17410 on: May 03, 2017, 11:17:39 AM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

boarder42

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17411 on: May 03, 2017, 11:39:58 AM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

thats not an insane price for a collector car.

Chris22

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17412 on: May 03, 2017, 11:56:54 AM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

thats not an insane price for a collector car.

And bought correctly it will not lose any significant value and might even appreciate a little.

boarder42

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17413 on: May 03, 2017, 12:43:15 PM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

thats not an insane price for a collector car.

And bought correctly it will not lose any significant value and might even appreciate a little.

depending on the car it could be worth much more than his cost to get it to Norway.  I dont know the market there though.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17414 on: May 03, 2017, 03:01:48 PM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

thats not an insane price for a collector car.

And bought correctly it will not lose any significant value and might even appreciate a little.

depending on the car it could be worth much more than his cost to get it to Norway.  I dont know the market there though.

It is either Norway or Finland that the import taxes are ridiculous. My dad sold a guitar to someone in [Finland or Norway] and the guy paid over $13,000 for the guitar when all was said and done; over $2500 of that was tax.

Chris22

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17415 on: May 03, 2017, 03:22:10 PM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

thats not an insane price for a collector car.

And bought correctly it will not lose any significant value and might even appreciate a little.

depending on the car it could be worth much more than his cost to get it to Norway.  I dont know the market there though.

It is either Norway or Finland that the import taxes are ridiculous. My dad sold a guitar to someone in [Finland or Norway] and the guy paid over $13,000 for the guitar when all was said and done; over $2500 of that was tax.

Is there an exclusion/reduction for items of a certain age?  I know in some areas, it is extremely expensive to buy/register new cars, but extremely cheap for old/antique cars. 

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17416 on: May 03, 2017, 03:39:02 PM »

It is either Norway or Finland that the import taxes are ridiculous. My dad sold a guitar to someone in [Finland or Norway] and the guy paid over $13,000 for the guitar when all was said and done; over $2500 of that was tax.

Is there an exclusion/reduction for items of a certain age?  I know in some areas, it is extremely expensive to buy/register new cars, but extremely cheap for old/antique cars. 
In Japan they have the opposite.  Old cars are super expensive to own because of registration and emissions regulation exemptions.

firelight

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17417 on: May 03, 2017, 03:58:18 PM »
My friend bought a BMW in Germany and had it shipped to US. He said it was cheaper than buying it from dealer here. So maybe there is some arbitrage that your colleague is taking advantage of.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17418 on: May 03, 2017, 04:57:37 PM »
My friend bought a BMW in Germany and had it shipped to US. He said it was cheaper than buying it from dealer here. So maybe there is some arbitrage that your colleague is taking advantage of.

Interesting, I was reading about an Indian guy in NJ that wasn't allowed to buy a BMW from the dealership because they were scared he would ship it to the Middle East.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17419 on: May 04, 2017, 02:43:54 AM »
Do you mean they were afraid they couldn't repo the car if necessary b/c it would be out of the country? Makes sense.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17420 on: May 04, 2017, 03:27:14 AM »
My male colleague, somewhere in his late 50s: Maybe I will travel to the US this summer and buy a 60s model car for 29,000 USD.

That is not including the transport and taxes to import the car into Norway.

I don't remember what car it was, but some fancy old style Buick or similar. (I'm not a car person)

thats not an insane price for a collector car.

And bought correctly it will not lose any significant value and might even appreciate a little.

depending on the car it could be worth much more than his cost to get it to Norway.  I dont know the market there though.

It is either Norway or Finland that the import taxes are ridiculous. My dad sold a guitar to someone in [Finland or Norway] and the guy paid over $13,000 for the guitar when all was said and done; over $2500 of that was tax.
That likely was not an "Import Tax" but the VAT, which is 24% in Finland.
Of course if you import things then that VAT is applied as import tax, because you can't put a VAT on imports. Legal nitpicking.

Dave1442397

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17421 on: May 04, 2017, 06:14:49 AM »
Do you mean they were afraid they couldn't repo the car if necessary b/c it would be out of the country? Makes sense.

Not quite. It was actually a Mercedes, and there's a lot of money to be made in exporting certain models.

http://jalopnik.com/new-jersey-dealer-refuses-sale-of-mercedes-to-indian-ma-1784946862

Chris22

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17422 on: May 04, 2017, 07:49:00 AM »

It is either Norway or Finland that the import taxes are ridiculous. My dad sold a guitar to someone in [Finland or Norway] and the guy paid over $13,000 for the guitar when all was said and done; over $2500 of that was tax.

Is there an exclusion/reduction for items of a certain age?  I know in some areas, it is extremely expensive to buy/register new cars, but extremely cheap for old/antique cars. 
In Japan they have the opposite.  Old cars are super expensive to own because of registration and emissions regulation exemptions.

That's mostly a program to support their domestic automakers.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17423 on: May 04, 2017, 09:01:04 AM »
It's extremely frustrating, but it seems like the cycle is being set up to repeat itself:
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year...

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.   

I feel like that many times leads to what was mentioned earlier in this thread:

...The coworker had just divorced her husband who, as a head of a hospital wing, was bringing in over half a million dollars a year... So they divorced, the judge didn't award alimony, and she had to go back to work after many years of staying at home.  She landed in my group, earning less than one tenth of what her ex used to bring home. 
...boy, dealing with a fallen socialite is something I will not miss.

Hopefully you can influence her onto the path of self sufficiency! FWIW, I'm a male engineer and some of the brightest people I know are independent female engineers that work at my company.

I feel like female engineers have much more drive than their male counterparts in most cases.  They are out to prove they can hack it in what is traditionally male dominated.  My wife is one and she has issues with RE b/c of the drive to prove she can do it all ... many others i run into are quite similar.  - more so in the millenial generation than previous generations as well.  maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.

Reminds me of a "small talk" conversation with a male boss from another office recently.  I'm not an engineer but am in a Male dominated industry.  He mentioned that he notices we women seemed to really say what we mean.  Umm myself and the other woman he was talking about are "senior" (have been in the industry for 10+ years) I'm not sure when it happens but after having to continually prove ourselves sometime between 5-15 years in you develop a case of the "I don't give a fucks" with a lot of office politics/small talk.

ETA:  early on in my career I had a boss tell me I should modify the way I talk, "stop talking like a girl" because guys don't want to deal with their wives at work.  I didn't report him because he honestly thought that he was giving me solid career advise.  It was hard to take him seriously after that.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 09:13:55 AM by neverrun »

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17424 on: May 04, 2017, 09:16:45 AM »
Do you mean they were afraid they couldn't repo the car if necessary b/c it would be out of the country? Makes sense.

Not quite. It was actually a Mercedes, and there's a lot of money to be made in exporting certain models.

http://jalopnik.com/new-jersey-dealer-refuses-sale-of-mercedes-to-indian-ma-1784946862

My mistake on the car.

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17425 on: May 04, 2017, 12:25:26 PM »
Guy at work who lives in Arizona, said his electric bill over the summer is $600 a month because his kids are home all day. I know it's hot there but still...no outdoor activities? Hanging out at their pool all day? Summer camp?

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17426 on: May 04, 2017, 12:33:36 PM »
Guy at work who lives in Arizona, said his electric bill over the summer is $600 a month because his kids are home all day. I know it's hot there but still...no outdoor activities? Hanging out at their pool all day? Summer camp?

When we lived in Arizona our electric bill was never over ~$200, and was usually much less during the summer. And we didn't even turn up the thermostat when we were at work during the day...

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17427 on: May 04, 2017, 12:44:34 PM »
Maybe they have a *chilled* pool! :P

(FWIW, chilled pools *are* a thing.  On a business trip to Qatar, I saw a hotel or high rise that advertised its chilled pool.  Yes, it gets hot/humid enough  (120 degrees, 90% humidity) there that you actually need to cool your pool down)

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17428 on: May 04, 2017, 12:53:33 PM »
Maybe they have a *chilled* pool! :P

(FWIW, chilled pools *are* a thing.  On a business trip to Qatar, I saw a hotel or high rise that advertised its chilled pool.  Yes, it gets hot/humid enough  (120 degrees, 90% humidity) there that you actually need to cool your pool down)

Could you use the excess heat in the pool to generate electricity, cooling it down in the process?

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17429 on: May 04, 2017, 01:19:56 PM »
Maybe they have a *chilled* pool! :P

(FWIW, chilled pools *are* a thing.  On a business trip to Qatar, I saw a hotel or high rise that advertised its chilled pool.  Yes, it gets hot/humid enough  (120 degrees, 90% humidity) there that you actually need to cool your pool down)

Could you use the excess heat in the pool to generate electricity, cooling it down in the process?
Only if you have some large, cool mass to transfer the heat into

shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17430 on: May 04, 2017, 01:26:10 PM »
Maybe they have a *chilled* pool! :P

(FWIW, chilled pools *are* a thing.  On a business trip to Qatar, I saw a hotel or high rise that advertised its chilled pool.  Yes, it gets hot/humid enough  (120 degrees, 90% humidity) there that you actually need to cool your pool down)

Could you use the excess heat in the pool to generate electricity, cooling it down in the process?
Only if you have some large, cool mass to transfer the heat into

What kind of loser only has one pool? Obviously you cool the outdoor pool by transferring the heat into the indoor pool, which you cool in turn with the house's air conditioning. Duh.

lemanfan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17431 on: May 04, 2017, 01:39:59 PM »
That likely was not an "Import Tax" but the VAT, which is 24% in Finland.
Of course if you import things then that VAT is applied as import tax, because you can't put a VAT on imports. Legal nitpicking.

Oh, didn't know that Finland had a lower VAT.  In the rest of Scandinavia, it's 25% for most items. ;)

But for many cars, theres also additional taxes, which can be crazy high in e.g. Denmark and Norway.  Trust me, you don't want to know how high.  You might blow a fuse. 

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17432 on: May 04, 2017, 03:37:30 PM »
What kind of loser only has one pool? Obviously you cool the outdoor pool by transferring the heat into the indoor pool, which you cool in turn with the house's air conditioning. Duh.

No, no, no... What you do is leave the patio doors open so that the a/c spills out and cools the patio area which is outside and hot... ;)

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17433 on: May 05, 2017, 12:47:25 AM »
What kind of loser only has one pool? Obviously you cool the outdoor pool by transferring the heat into the indoor pool, which you cool in turn with the house's air conditioning. Duh.

No, no, no... What you do is leave the patio doors open so that the a/c spills out and cools the patio area which is outside and hot... ;)

Dubai has air-conditioned bus shelters. They already air-condition outside.

CptCool

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17434 on: May 05, 2017, 09:58:44 AM »
What kind of loser only has one pool? Obviously you cool the outdoor pool by transferring the heat into the indoor pool, which you cool in turn with the house's air conditioning. Duh.

No, no, no... What you do is leave the patio doors open so that the a/c spills out and cools the patio area which is outside and hot... ;)

Dubai has air-conditioned bus shelters. They already air-condition outside.

Here in MN we have some bus stops that you push a button to turn on a heater in the wintertime - so I guess it's not that different

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17435 on: May 05, 2017, 10:03:19 AM »
It boggles my mind that people choose to live (or continue living) in places like that where the weather is so inhospitable that you can't even wait at a bus shelter without risking heat stroke or frost bite. I'll take my high cost of housing with my perfect weather over that nonsense any day of the week.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17436 on: May 05, 2017, 10:41:18 AM »
Here is one more for you.

Remember I was telling about my 66 year old colleague with a car loan? Well, we had a nice chat and turned out that he actually wants (!) to retire! To my question why was he still working, he answered that he actually applied for Social Security and started receiving a check but sends it in full to pay off his "debts". Obviously he has more than car loan to pay off. I was actually surprised that you can continue working, receiving salary and start receiving social security. Interesting..

Another colleague just turned 65 and plans to retire in a month! I congratulated her and told "Freedom!!" )). In reply she was not that enthusiastic. I questioned that and she told that she would need to continue working at least part time to avoid poverty. Me - ??? She told that she was eligible for social security and had Pension Plan from our employer. I suggested that her 401K plan would be very useful to avoid working. She told that she did not have one!! "I made bad choices earlier in my life. O well.." - was her reply. Amazing!

MichaelB

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17437 on: May 05, 2017, 10:51:47 AM »
Here is one more for you.

Remember I was telling about my 66 year old colleague with a car loan? Well, we had a nice chat and turned out that he actually wants (!) to retire! To my question why was he still working, he answered that he actually applied for Social Security and started receiving a check but sends it in full to pay off his "debts". Obviously he has more than car loan to pay off. I was actually surprised that you can continue working, receiving salary and start receiving social security. Interesting..

Another colleague just turned 65 and plans to retire in a month! I congratulated her and told "Freedom!!" )). In reply she was not that enthusiastic. I questioned that and she told that she would need to continue working at least part time to avoid poverty. Me - ??? She told that she was eligible for social security and had Pension Plan from our employer. I suggested that her 401K plan would be very useful to avoid working. She told that she did not have one!! "I made bad choices earlier in my life. O well.." - was her reply. Amazing!

More like depressing.

CptCool

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17438 on: May 05, 2017, 10:52:43 AM »
It boggles my mind that people choose to live (or continue living) in places like that where the weather is so inhospitable that you can't even wait at a bus shelter without risking heat stroke or frost bite. I'll take my high cost of housing with my perfect weather over that nonsense any day of the week.

Haha that's fair. I don't mind cold because it's extremely easy to just put on a layer or two. Can't stand the heat though because you can only take off so many clothes.

I also can't imagine living without seasons my entire life - I "followed the summer" for a year by switching hemispheres traveling around the world and it was fun, but I learned I enjoy having different seasons

sw1tch

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17439 on: May 05, 2017, 11:20:46 AM »
It boggles my mind that people choose to live (or continue living) in places like that where the weather is so inhospitable that you can't even wait at a bus shelter without risking heat stroke or frost bite. I'll take my high cost of housing with my perfect weather over that nonsense any day of the week.

It's not like it's "inhospitable" all (or even most) of the time in any of these places.  Pshh, I biked in the winter; I see how inhospitable that was - everyone thought I was crazy.  But, last I checked, I still have all of my fingers, toes, etc.

Weather's a good thing to have on your side, but it's not the only thing.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17440 on: May 05, 2017, 11:47:46 AM »
It boggles my mind that people choose to live (or continue living) in places like that where the weather is so inhospitable that you can't even wait at a bus shelter without risking heat stroke or frost bite. I'll take my high cost of housing with my perfect weather over that nonsense any day of the week.

On the flip side, the weather here, while always nice, is never exciting.  I miss things like a hot summer day suddenly dropping 20 degrees and knowing a killer thunderstorm is coming that's going to rattle the dishes in the cabinets.  Or 2 feet of beautiful fresh snowfall covering everything.
 And the change of seasons help create a feeling of the passage of time.  Time passes by quicker here, I've noticed, because it's always the same.  I can never complain about the weather in the bay area, but it's definitely not 'perfect' for everyone.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17441 on: May 05, 2017, 01:49:32 PM »
It boggles my mind that people choose to live (or continue living) in places like that where the weather is so inhospitable that you can't even wait at a bus shelter without risking heat stroke or frost bite. I'll take my high cost of housing with my perfect weather over that nonsense any day of the week.

Um... we have heaters in the shelters for the commuter train into Toronto.  But I wouldn't say that it's inhospitable to live here. That's harsh.

Chris22

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17442 on: May 05, 2017, 02:07:46 PM »
It boggles my mind that people choose to live (or continue living) in places like that where the weather is so inhospitable that you can't even wait at a bus shelter without risking heat stroke or frost bite. I'll take my high cost of housing with my perfect weather over that nonsense any day of the week.

On the flip side, the weather here, while always nice, is never exciting.  I miss things like a hot summer day suddenly dropping 20 degrees and knowing a killer thunderstorm is coming that's going to rattle the dishes in the cabinets.  Or 2 feet of beautiful fresh snowfall covering everything.
 And the change of seasons help create a feeling of the passage of time.  Time passes by quicker here, I've noticed, because it's always the same.  I can never complain about the weather in the bay area, but it's definitely not 'perfect' for everyone.

It's hard to appreciate good weather without bad weather.  I've always lived somewhere with seasons, and so I've always had the excitement of a warm spring day, enjoyed the ritual of getting the lawn mower out and putting the snowblower away, looked forward to the first top down drive, savored that one or two nice days in late February that you know won't last, etc.  Similarly, there's the bittersweet crisp fall days that show a let-up of the summer heat, the beauty of the foliage, the bundling up in sweaters and sweatshirts after a summer of shorts and tshirts.  There are activities that feel 'wrong' in the warmth, like sitting in the stands watching football or raking leaves or drinking a bourbon by a fire.  Yeah, by the time March rolls around winter sucks, but that doesn't mean the first real snowfall in December or January isn't beautiful and fun to play around in with the kids.  I fantasize about living in San Diego or Hawaii, but I know I'd miss real seasons. 

Inaya

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17443 on: May 05, 2017, 02:46:24 PM »
It boggles my mind that people choose to live (or continue living) in places like that where the weather is so inhospitable that you can't even wait at a bus shelter without risking heat stroke or frost bite. I'll take my high cost of housing with my perfect weather over that nonsense any day of the week.

Um... we have heaters in the shelters for the commuter train into Toronto.  But I wouldn't say that it's inhospitable to live here. That's harsh.


Ours have heat lamps. And hopefully your stop has a shelter.


I've lived though 2 very nasty Chicago winters, 1 mild one, and two that can only be described as WTF. All things considered, I'll take the nasty ones. And this is from somebody from New Mexico who is pretty sensitive to cold. And I'll take the cold over the humidity any day of the week.

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17444 on: May 05, 2017, 04:29:17 PM »
Like many things in life, I imagine a lot of what we prefer is related to what we grew up with and what we are used to. I spent a winter living in the Denver area and a year in France, both places admittedly have relatively wild weather, but still harsher than what I grew up with. As a kid I would read about snow and thought it sounded so fun and romantic. I completely agree that heat sucks because you can only take off so many clothes and if you are still hot, all you can do is suffer. If you have the right clothes, cold can be okay, as long as you don't have to shovel or scrape or drive.

I travel regularly though not frequent for work across the US. I have only ever been on one trip where I wasn't immensely grateful to be back home again after, and that was this lovely boondoggle trip to the San Juan islands. :) I certainly hear people appreciate four seasons and more power to you. It is way more important to me to never have to think about what measures I have to take to mentally and physically steel myself to fight the uncomfortable elements. The older I get the greater a source of joy that is for me. Again, to each their own.

russianswinga

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17445 on: May 05, 2017, 04:57:50 PM »
I fantasize about living in San Diego or Hawaii, but I know I'd miss real seasons.

We have seasons in San Diego!
- Fish Taco season
- Carne Asada season
- Guacamole season
- Craft Beer season

If it's weather you're after, it changes too! We have nice, nicer, and excellent weather.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17446 on: May 05, 2017, 10:58:52 PM »
It's extremely frustrating, but it seems like the cycle is being set up to repeat itself:
I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year...

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.   

I feel like that many times leads to what was mentioned earlier in this thread:

...The coworker had just divorced her husband who, as a head of a hospital wing, was bringing in over half a million dollars a year... So they divorced, the judge didn't award alimony, and she had to go back to work after many years of staying at home.  She landed in my group, earning less than one tenth of what her ex used to bring home. 
...boy, dealing with a fallen socialite is something I will not miss.

Hopefully you can influence her onto the path of self sufficiency! FWIW, I'm a male engineer and some of the brightest people I know are independent female engineers that work at my company.

I feel like female engineers have much more drive than their male counterparts in most cases.  They are out to prove they can hack it in what is traditionally male dominated.  My wife is one and she has issues with RE b/c of the drive to prove she can do it all ... many others i run into are quite similar.  - more so in the millenial generation than previous generations as well.  maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.

Reminds me of a "small talk" conversation with a male boss from another office recently.  I'm not an engineer but am in a Male dominated industry.  He mentioned that he notices we women seemed to really say what we mean.  Umm myself and the other woman he was talking about are "senior" (have been in the industry for 10+ years) I'm not sure when it happens but after having to continually prove ourselves sometime between 5-15 years in you develop a case of the "I don't give a fucks" with a lot of office politics/small talk.

ETA:  early on in my career I had a boss tell me I should modify the way I talk, "stop talking like a girl" because guys don't want to deal with their wives at work.  I didn't report him because he honestly thought that he was giving me solid career advise.  It was hard to take him seriously after that.

In fairness it's also hard to take a person seriously if they're trying to communicate in baby talk using words like "tummy", "brekkie" and "vacay". It's even worse when they're making their voices artificially high and infantile, and ending? each phrase? with a rising inflection? as though they're asking a question? in an obvious attempt to act insignificant, nonthreatening, and therefore incompetent. I have yet to meet a person who identifies as male be that obviously beta.

Alim Nassor

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17447 on: May 06, 2017, 02:35:53 AM »
Coworker who makes about 85K/year. Recently sold her duplex which was only a couple miles from work because she was getting married and going to start a family (her unit was a 2 bed/2 bath, probably 1100 sf). Bought a 400K+ "dream house" in the countryside with space for her two horses to live in the backyard (or whatever you call your backyard when it has horses living in it).

"We'll be making a monthly payment to the hospital for, like, the rest of our lives. No, seriously. For like the next 50 years. It's an $80K bill."

This bill is for anti venom for a snake bite that her now husband incurred at their OLD, awesome duplex house, before they got married, when he didn't have health insurance. And they STILL bought the far-away, big dream house. Bummer.


I got bit by a snake while in my backyard.  Anti-venom bill for that was 160k   Total bill was 180k.  Thank God I had insurance from a previous job where they offered severance and benefit continuation, along with the insurance at my new job.  I didn't pay a nickel

Inaya

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17448 on: May 06, 2017, 03:00:46 AM »
Coworker who makes about 85K/year. Recently sold her duplex which was only a couple miles from work because she was getting married and going to start a family (her unit was a 2 bed/2 bath, probably 1100 sf). Bought a 400K+ "dream house" in the countryside with space for her two horses to live in the backyard (or whatever you call your backyard when it has horses living in it).

"We'll be making a monthly payment to the hospital for, like, the rest of our lives. No, seriously. For like the next 50 years. It's an $80K bill."

This bill is for anti venom for a snake bite that her now husband incurred at their OLD, awesome duplex house, before they got married, when he didn't have health insurance. And they STILL bought the far-away, big dream house. Bummer.

I got bit by a snake while in my backyard.  Anti-venom bill for that was 160k   Total bill was 180k.  Thank God I had insurance from a previous job where they offered severance and benefit continuation, along with the insurance at my new job.  I didn't pay a nickel
Holy crap! I had no idea antivenom was that expensive! I wasn't scared of snakes before, but I might consider it now.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #17449 on: May 06, 2017, 07:44:05 AM »
There is a side business right there. Raising snakes and collecting venom. (No thanks...)