Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 4800683 times)

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7500 on: March 19, 2015, 11:14:34 AM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).

Poo capacity planning is serious business.

Much like FIRE planning.  Decent chance of everything going fine regardless, but a small chance of absolute catastrophe.

Chuck

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7501 on: March 19, 2015, 11:19:43 AM »
I asked some co-workers if the same % of 401k contributions is taken from your bonus. They sighed heavily and said "Yes. I've tried to change it but it's hard to time correctly" I was thrilled. I had just upped mine to coincide with my raise! Inching up towards that maximum....
I wish I could just designate an amount each pay period instead of percentages. I get paid twice a month so would rather designate $750 each pay period instead of having to adjust percentages after pay raise and bonus.

That's the one nice thing about my company's 401k. The not so good? High fees (~0.50% on a Vanguard Target Date), and only 3% match with 4 year vesting :(.
We have John Hancock. The lowest rate in the whole plan is an S&P 500 index fund.

1.12%

We do too, except our lowest expense is .66%, same fund type. I'm struggling to determine whether it is worth it to contribute over the match (currently at 20%, but not the max), but I'm not very good at math and it's so confusing. I also feel like there are hidden fees above and beyond the .66%, but don't know how to prove it. Our company will never ever ever switch plans because a friend of the president/CEO is our adviser. He's making a killing, I'm sure of it, I'm just not sure where.
JH tries to confuse you in their fund portal by breaking the fee down into three separate catagories. Don't be fooled, and add all three catagories up.

It's totally possible that your company is larger than mine and just gets a better deal. We only have 25ish employees, many of which don't contribute all that much. Low funds = high rates.

Ashyukun

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7502 on: March 19, 2015, 11:24:36 AM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).

Wife and I definitely appreciate having 2 full (well, technically it's 1 3/4...) baths, mostly for the two toilets. My younger brother house-and-pet-sat for us while we were on vacation last week and was there a few days on either side of our vacation. When we got back from dinner (took the brother out as an additional thank-you for helping us out), the wife was shocked when I asked her if she needed to use the restroom or if I could go ahead- when she asked why I'd never asked her that before my answer was simple: normally it doesn't matter because I can just use the other bathroom but can't be assured of that since there were now 3 people and 2 toilets...

Rollin

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7503 on: March 19, 2015, 11:44:43 AM »
I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).
I admit it, I totally understood, but quibbled over semantics for the sake of shameless pedantry.

And I actually read through the whole explanation!  Arrrg!
I love being outside.

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7504 on: March 19, 2015, 12:28:58 PM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).

Poo capacity planning is serious business.

Much like FIRE planning.  Decent chance of everything going fine regardless, but a small chance of absolute catastrophe.

Not as long as there's a free sink in the kitchen . . .




EDIT - AND WINDOW SHADES

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7505 on: March 19, 2015, 12:47:09 PM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).

This is a big part of the reason I'm hesitant to rent out my spare room. Living alone with one bathroom is fine. With a roommate there is potential for serious conflict. What if they take an hour in the bathroom each morning to get ready?!

I rented out 2 rooms in my house as soon as I moved in.  That money went towards building a second bathroom ASAP.  Within months I had a second bathroom paid for.

Even if they don't take an hour in the bathroom, what if I get diarrhea during their shower time? Or while they just happen to be using the bathroom? Recipe for disaster.

hahahaha you are making me laugh so hard with these posts... but I totally agree!! I've actually peed in my own backyard before (don't worry, we have a privacy fence). life is hard when you have one toilet, a bladder the size of a thimble, and a boyfriend who takes FOREVER in the bathroom (I think he gets distracted by his phone... I always call him out for 'poopbooking' when I see him post something on Facebook and I KNOW he's in the bathroom, hahaha)

rockstache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7506 on: March 19, 2015, 01:16:29 PM »
I asked some co-workers if the same % of 401k contributions is taken from your bonus. They sighed heavily and said "Yes. I've tried to change it but it's hard to time correctly" I was thrilled. I had just upped mine to coincide with my raise! Inching up towards that maximum....
I wish I could just designate an amount each pay period instead of percentages. I get paid twice a month so would rather designate $750 each pay period instead of having to adjust percentages after pay raise and bonus.

That's the one nice thing about my company's 401k. The not so good? High fees (~0.50% on a Vanguard Target Date), and only 3% match with 4 year vesting :(.
We have John Hancock. The lowest rate in the whole plan is an S&P 500 index fund.

1.12%

We do too, except our lowest expense is .66%, same fund type. I'm struggling to determine whether it is worth it to contribute over the match (currently at 20%, but not the max), but I'm not very good at math and it's so confusing. I also feel like there are hidden fees above and beyond the .66%, but don't know how to prove it. Our company will never ever ever switch plans because a friend of the president/CEO is our adviser. He's making a killing, I'm sure of it, I'm just not sure where.
JH tries to confuse you in their fund portal by breaking the fee down into three separate catagories. Don't be fooled, and add all three catagories up.

It's totally possible that your company is larger than mine and just gets a better deal. We only have 25ish employees, many of which don't contribute all that much. Low funds = high rates.

They are succeeding with the confusion. I only see the .66%, and the statement doesn't list transactions except for the total I added for the quarter. We have about 120 employees, so that might make some difference. What I really would like to be able to clearly figure out, is at what point it wouldn't be worth maxing out because the fees are too high. But that requires more math than I can figure out.

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7507 on: March 19, 2015, 01:28:09 PM »
They are succeeding with the confusion. I only see the .66%, and the statement doesn't list transactions except for the total I added for the quarter. We have about 120 employees, so that might make some difference. What I really would like to be able to clearly figure out, is at what point it wouldn't be worth maxing out because the fees are too high. But that requires more math than I can figure out.

Lucky for us, jlcollinsnh is great at math: http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/06/28/stocks-part-viii-b-should-you-avoid-your-companys-401k/

That post includes a rebuttal from the Mad FIendist.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7508 on: March 19, 2015, 01:33:09 PM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).

Poo capacity planning is serious business.

Much like FIRE planning.  Decent chance of everything going fine regardless, but a small chance of absolute catastrophe.

Not as long as there's a free sink in the kitchen . . .




EDIT - AND WINDOW SHADES

Not sure what kind of kitchen you run, but in my house explosive diarrhea in the kitchen sink would be classified as a catastrophe and I would like to avoid it.

Zaga

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7509 on: March 19, 2015, 01:45:02 PM »
I asked some co-workers if the same % of 401k contributions is taken from your bonus. They sighed heavily and said "Yes. I've tried to change it but it's hard to time correctly" I was thrilled. I had just upped mine to coincide with my raise! Inching up towards that maximum....
I wish I could just designate an amount each pay period instead of percentages. I get paid twice a month so would rather designate $750 each pay period instead of having to adjust percentages after pay raise and bonus.

That's the one nice thing about my company's 401k. The not so good? High fees (~0.50% on a Vanguard Target Date), and only 3% match with 4 year vesting :(.
We have John Hancock. The lowest rate in the whole plan is an S&P 500 index fund.

1.12%

We do too, except our lowest expense is .66%, same fund type. I'm struggling to determine whether it is worth it to contribute over the match (currently at 20%, but not the max), but I'm not very good at math and it's so confusing. I also feel like there are hidden fees above and beyond the .66%, but don't know how to prove it. Our company will never ever ever switch plans because a friend of the president/CEO is our adviser. He's making a killing, I'm sure of it, I'm just not sure where.
JH tries to confuse you in their fund portal by breaking the fee down into three separate catagories. Don't be fooled, and add all three catagories up.

It's totally possible that your company is larger than mine and just gets a better deal. We only have 25ish employees, many of which don't contribute all that much. Low funds = high rates.

They are succeeding with the confusion. I only see the .66%, and the statement doesn't list transactions except for the total I added for the quarter. We have about 120 employees, so that might make some difference. What I really would like to be able to clearly figure out, is at what point it wouldn't be worth maxing out because the fees are too high. But that requires more math than I can figure out.
To oversimplify I look at it this way.  If I'm in the 15% tax bracket and paying 1.5% fees in the 401-K, I can pay those fees for 10 years before losing out on the initial tax benefit.

So, if I'm in a job like that and don't expect to be there for more than 2 years, then I would go ahead and max it out!  Because as soon as you leave the job you'll be rolling that shit over to a low fee IRA like Vanguard!

**Yes, this is not an accurate calculation, but it is close enough to get the idea.

Unique User

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7510 on: March 19, 2015, 01:45:17 PM »
I feel like I live in a ridiculous lap of luxury having 2.5 bath in my house.  Sink/throne downstairs, full bath with tub at top of stairs, and full bath with shower as a master suite...
We have two full baths for two adults, and I feel the same. My wife uses the second one as her private primping suite... other than that, it only gets used when we have guests. Ridiculous! Our last house had 2.5 and it was just silly. A definite sensation of paying extra just to have more unused shit to take care of.

I agree luxurious, but sometimes necessary.  I could not imagine having to share a bathroom with my teen.  I hate to even walk into her bathroom, I usually just shudder and shut the door. 

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7511 on: March 19, 2015, 02:17:44 PM »
(Not sure this was sarcasm or not)

Don't get me started on Fahrenheit! What is room temperature in the US? Don't give me any wild numbers above 50!

Why do we need Fahrenheit?!?

Because the calibration is finer, so you can understand the actual temperature better. I mean WTF 30 should not be that much hotter than 20, that's just wrong. There need to be more gradations in between. Also because "below zero" should mean "seriously effing cold," not just "cold enough for water to freeze."

I agree with this... except that your examples are all just arbitrary. Why should't 30 be that much hotter than 20? You can turn it around and use it in the other direction just as easily. And we have decimal points for the fine calibration.

Now, the big thing that annoys me about Fahrenheit is that they basically made it up by sticking a thermometer in a bucket of ice and saying "This is really cold, this is 0" and then stuck a thermometer in a bucket of water on a fire and said "this is really hot, this is 100" and then filled everything in from there on that scale. Why not just do double centigrade? Have freezing water be 0 and boiling water be 200? That would have given the same effect as your pro-Fahrenheit arguments. Except even moreso.

Dude! That is the most brilliant shit i've heard ever! (not sarcastic)
Fahrenheit was a vet.  He didn't stick the thermometer in a bucket of hot water and say it was hot and 100 degrees.  He stuck it in a healthy horse and said it was 100 degrees.  Not joking.

At 0 C, water freezes and rain becomes snow or ice.. It's a good round number that indicates that the rain might hurt.

The argument for Fahrenheit is that you can tell the difference between 72 and 73 F. I can't and even if I could, It wouldn't change my attire.

Ooo. Do you feel that? We just dropped a degree F, I'm going to pull my socks up 2/3s of an inch to keep some heat in. No!

Fahrenheit is just another lets be different and drive on the other side of the street because those damn brit's are charging me a few cents on my PG tips.

I don't know why Fahrenheit is still used today, but Fahrenheit was established like 50 years before Celcius.

fantabulous

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7512 on: March 19, 2015, 02:49:34 PM »
Not as long as there's a free sink in the kitchen . . .
EDIT - AND WINDOW SHADES

Not sure what kind of kitchen you run, but in my house explosive diarrhea in the kitchen sink would be classified as a catastrophe and I would like to avoid it.

I believe you just use the sprayer and run the garbage disposal every so often in that situation. Assuming you have both.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7513 on: March 19, 2015, 03:46:42 PM »
I feel like I live in a ridiculous lap of luxury having 2.5 bath in my house.  Sink/throne downstairs, full bath with tub at top of stairs, and full bath with shower as a master suite...

My wife prefers using 'our' shower/bathroom.... I look at her like she has three heads because we own the house, they are all OUR bathrooms!   I guess I just don't get it. 

Growing up, we had a single downstairs bathroom in our house.  If you didn't like it, there was always the tree line out back !
Sigh.  What I wouldn't do for a second toilet.  I grew up in a house with one bathroom, and most of the time 2 sisters and a brother in the house.  We never had an issue?

But now.  Seriously, I can never shower or pee in peace.  Like, ever.  That's just with a husband, 9 year old boy, 2.5 year old boy.  Why does everyone need the bathroom at the same time??

Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7514 on: March 19, 2015, 03:49:53 PM »
I feel like I live in a ridiculous lap of luxury having 2.5 bath in my house.  Sink/throne downstairs, full bath with tub at top of stairs, and full bath with shower as a master suite...

My wife prefers using 'our' shower/bathroom.... I look at her like she has three heads because we own the house, they are all OUR bathrooms!   I guess I just don't get it. 

Growing up, we had a single downstairs bathroom in our house.  If you didn't like it, there was always the tree line out back !
Sigh.  What I wouldn't do for a second toilet.  I grew up in a house with one bathroom, and most of the time 2 sisters and a brother in the house.  We never had an issue?

But now.  Seriously, I can never shower or pee in peace.  Like, ever.  That's just with a husband, 9 year old boy, 2.5 year old boy.  Why does everyone need the bathroom at the same time??

Monkey see, monkey doo doo.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7515 on: March 19, 2015, 03:58:42 PM »
I feel like I live in a ridiculous lap of luxury having 2.5 bath in my house.  Sink/throne downstairs, full bath with tub at top of stairs, and full bath with shower as a master suite...

My wife prefers using 'our' shower/bathroom.... I look at her like she has three heads because we own the house, they are all OUR bathrooms!   I guess I just don't get it. 

Growing up, we had a single downstairs bathroom in our house.  If you didn't like it, there was always the tree line out back !
Sigh.  What I wouldn't do for a second toilet.  I grew up in a house with one bathroom, and most of the time 2 sisters and a brother in the house.  We never had an issue?

But now.  Seriously, I can never shower or pee in peace.  Like, ever.  That's just with a husband, 9 year old boy, 2.5 year old boy.  Why does everyone need the bathroom at the same time??

Monkey see, monkey doo doo.
Okay, that made me snicker out loud.  Good thing I'm alone (one officemate laid off, other on travel)

I used to make my son pee in the backyard (when he was 4, 5, 6...) that ONE patch of grass that was his favorite spot was SO GREEN.

of course with the drought, we have no lawn anymore.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7516 on: March 19, 2015, 07:04:18 PM »
Okay, that made me snicker out loud.  Good thing I'm alone (one officemate laid off, other on travel)

I used to make my son pee in the backyard (when he was 4, 5, 6...) that ONE patch of grass that was his favorite spot was SO GREEN.

of course with the drought, we have no lawn anymore.
Sounds like you need to reinstate your old policy.  For the environment, of course.  Think of the wasted water!

Pooplips

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7517 on: March 20, 2015, 05:38:46 AM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

3 seems reasonable, maybe a tad excessive.  2 is my absolute minimum.  I will never own/rent another place that has less than 2 bathrooms.  But more than 2 seems like excess.  I will for sure get full use out of a second bathroom, but a third? Not so much.

I think 3 is excessive but yeah, one bathroom for two adults kinda sucks. That's what we have now but when we eventually buy a house my minimum would be 1.5. I think boyfriend's minimum would be two (like for when we have kids)... personally I could live with one tub/shower, even for a family of four, but damn it's nice having two.

I guess I'm not understanding how 2 ppl and one bathroom is so difficult. How often do you people poop at the same time? Or some serious bladder control issues?

What am I missing? Haha

The struggle is real here in the developed world. Haha

kyanamerinas

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7518 on: March 20, 2015, 05:55:42 AM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

3 seems reasonable, maybe a tad excessive.  2 is my absolute minimum.  I will never own/rent another place that has less than 2 bathrooms.  But more than 2 seems like excess.  I will for sure get full use out of a second bathroom, but a third? Not so much.

I think 3 is excessive but yeah, one bathroom for two adults kinda sucks. That's what we have now but when we eventually buy a house my minimum would be 1.5. I think boyfriend's minimum would be two (like for when we have kids)... personally I could live with one tub/shower, even for a family of four, but damn it's nice having two.

I guess I'm not understanding how 2 ppl and one bathroom is so difficult. How often do you people poop at the same time? Or some serious bladder control issues?

What am I missing? Haha

The struggle is real here in the developed world. Haha

yeah, a lot of family homes in the UK have only one bathroom and it's never seemed to be a horrendous problem.
we are two adults, frequent visitors and one bathroom. no problems at all.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7519 on: March 20, 2015, 07:45:11 AM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

3 seems reasonable, maybe a tad excessive.  2 is my absolute minimum.  I will never own/rent another place that has less than 2 bathrooms.  But more than 2 seems like excess.  I will for sure get full use out of a second bathroom, but a third? Not so much.

I think 3 is excessive but yeah, one bathroom for two adults kinda sucks. That's what we have now but when we eventually buy a house my minimum would be 1.5. I think boyfriend's minimum would be two (like for when we have kids)... personally I could live with one tub/shower, even for a family of four, but damn it's nice having two.

I guess I'm not understanding how 2 ppl and one bathroom is so difficult. How often do you people poop at the same time? Or some serious bladder control issues?

What am I missing? Haha

The struggle is real here in the developed world. Haha

I have stomach issues and poop a lot.  Even with only 2 people it happens at least once a week where we both need access to the bathroom.  Growing up in a 5 person house was terrible.

solon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7520 on: March 20, 2015, 08:16:33 AM »
I have stomach issues and poop a lot.  Even with only 2 people it happens at least once a week where we both need access to the bathroom.  Growing up in a 5 person house was terrible.

eww! Didn't want to know that. You should be a little more frugal with those nachos!

rockstache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7521 on: March 20, 2015, 09:17:19 AM »
They are succeeding with the confusion. I only see the .66%, and the statement doesn't list transactions except for the total I added for the quarter. We have about 120 employees, so that might make some difference. What I really would like to be able to clearly figure out, is at what point it wouldn't be worth maxing out because the fees are too high. But that requires more math than I can figure out.

Lucky for us, jlcollinsnh is great at math: http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/06/28/stocks-part-viii-b-should-you-avoid-your-companys-401k/

That post includes a rebuttal from the Mad FIendist.

I have read that post at least 15 times. And the rebuttal a few times too. Trouble is, I just don't know. Yes, I am in the 15% tax bracket (or was this past year), but that is partially because of what I am already contributing to the 401K, so if I contributed less, I wouldn't be. I currently contribute 20%, but still don't max it. I will probably be in this job for quite a while (no idea how long really, but it's basically stress free and the pay me ok, so not looking to switch currently), and I do get a 3% match up to 6%. Also on my 3 month statement, it says that I was charged $25 for administrative expenses. I am not sure, but I assume this is over and above the individual fund fees? Everyone is making it sound like it's really easy and I guess for you it might be, but this is way over my head. With Zaga's math it sounds like I would have to be in the job for 22 years for it not to be worth it...is that right? Thanks everyone for the comments. I guess I'm a dummy, because I'm just not figuring it out. Sorry to derail the thread and for my thickheadedness.

Zaga

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7522 on: March 20, 2015, 10:01:37 AM »
They are succeeding with the confusion. I only see the .66%, and the statement doesn't list transactions except for the total I added for the quarter. We have about 120 employees, so that might make some difference. What I really would like to be able to clearly figure out, is at what point it wouldn't be worth maxing out because the fees are too high. But that requires more math than I can figure out.

Lucky for us, jlcollinsnh is great at math: http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/06/28/stocks-part-viii-b-should-you-avoid-your-companys-401k/

That post includes a rebuttal from the Mad FIendist.

I have read that post at least 15 times. And the rebuttal a few times too. Trouble is, I just don't know. Yes, I am in the 15% tax bracket (or was this past year), but that is partially because of what I am already contributing to the 401K, so if I contributed less, I wouldn't be. I currently contribute 20%, but still don't max it. I will probably be in this job for quite a while (no idea how long really, but it's basically stress free and the pay me ok, so not looking to switch currently), and I do get a 3% match up to 6%. Also on my 3 month statement, it says that I was charged $25 for administrative expenses. I am not sure, but I assume this is over and above the individual fund fees? Everyone is making it sound like it's really easy and I guess for you it might be, but this is way over my head. With Zaga's math it sounds like I would have to be in the job for 22 years for it not to be worth it...is that right? Thanks everyone for the comments. I guess I'm a dummy, because I'm just not figuring it out. Sorry to derail the thread and for my thickheadedness.
Like I said, my math is far from perfect.

You've over-complicating matters.  The important thing is that you save.  You can't predict the future.  Sure, you may be in that job for 20+ years, or they may have a restructuring and lay you off tomorrow.  Is this decision worth you getting ulcers over a few $ one way or another?  I would think not.

Now, I know that MMM is all about optimizing, but not all people can think that way all the time.  Do your best, make a decision, move on.

I know that some years we have contributed to a Roth when we "should" have contributed more to a 401-K instead.  You know what?  Not the end of the world.  We saved, we are happy with that.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7523 on: March 20, 2015, 11:36:53 AM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

3 seems reasonable, maybe a tad excessive.  2 is my absolute minimum.  I will never own/rent another place that has less than 2 bathrooms.  But more than 2 seems like excess.  I will for sure get full use out of a second bathroom, but a third? Not so much.

I think 3 is excessive but yeah, one bathroom for two adults kinda sucks. That's what we have now but when we eventually buy a house my minimum would be 1.5. I think boyfriend's minimum would be two (like for when we have kids)... personally I could live with one tub/shower, even for a family of four, but damn it's nice having two.

I guess I'm not understanding how 2 ppl and one bathroom is so difficult. How often do you people poop at the same time? Or some serious bladder control issues?

What am I missing? Haha

The struggle is real here in the developed world. Haha
the only place my husband gets peace is in the bathroom.  He takes forever sometimes.  Inevitably, the kiddo needs to go at the same time.

rockstache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7524 on: March 20, 2015, 12:25:37 PM »
They are succeeding with the confusion. I only see the .66%, and the statement doesn't list transactions except for the total I added for the quarter. We have about 120 employees, so that might make some difference. What I really would like to be able to clearly figure out, is at what point it wouldn't be worth maxing out because the fees are too high. But that requires more math than I can figure out.

Lucky for us, jlcollinsnh is great at math: http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/06/28/stocks-part-viii-b-should-you-avoid-your-companys-401k/

That post includes a rebuttal from the Mad FIendist.

I have read that post at least 15 times. And the rebuttal a few times too. Trouble is, I just don't know. Yes, I am in the 15% tax bracket (or was this past year), but that is partially because of what I am already contributing to the 401K, so if I contributed less, I wouldn't be. I currently contribute 20%, but still don't max it. I will probably be in this job for quite a while (no idea how long really, but it's basically stress free and the pay me ok, so not looking to switch currently), and I do get a 3% match up to 6%. Also on my 3 month statement, it says that I was charged $25 for administrative expenses. I am not sure, but I assume this is over and above the individual fund fees? Everyone is making it sound like it's really easy and I guess for you it might be, but this is way over my head. With Zaga's math it sounds like I would have to be in the job for 22 years for it not to be worth it...is that right? Thanks everyone for the comments. I guess I'm a dummy, because I'm just not figuring it out. Sorry to derail the thread and for my thickheadedness.
Like I said, my math is far from perfect.

You've over-complicating matters.  The important thing is that you save.  You can't predict the future.  Sure, you may be in that job for 20+ years, or they may have a restructuring and lay you off tomorrow.  Is this decision worth you getting ulcers over a few $ one way or another?  I would think not.

Now, I know that MMM is all about optimizing, but not all people can think that way all the time.  Do your best, make a decision, move on.

I know that some years we have contributed to a Roth when we "should" have contributed more to a 401-K instead.  You know what?  Not the end of the world.  We saved, we are happy with that.

Excellent point, thank you. I can definitely get over anxious about the details, and forget the bigger picture.

Stachetastic

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7525 on: March 20, 2015, 02:02:54 PM »
I have a coworker who drives a 14 year old truck, that he keeps in pristine condition. I really thought this guy "got it" until today when he announces he is looking at new (brand new!) trucks because he wants a blue tooth stereo option. I told him he can buy a new stereo for ~$100 and he'd be all set. He said he's OCD about a new stereo not fitting properly and looking like the original factory install, so he will be buying a Tacoma when the new design comes out. I helpfully informed him he was crazy.  Fortunately, he took it well.

gimp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7526 on: March 20, 2015, 02:19:01 PM »
Bluetooth audio modules are about $3 on ebay, cassette adapters about as much.

Eventually I'm going to open the thing up, mcguyver the bluetooth module inside the car, and tie it in directly bypassing the radio / head unit. But for now... it's a $6 setup and fairly rock solid. You might want to tell him that.

FoundPeace

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7527 on: March 20, 2015, 02:26:15 PM »
I have a coworker who drives a 14 year old truck, that he keeps in pristine condition. I really thought this guy "got it" until today when he announces he is looking at new (brand new!) trucks because he wants a blue tooth stereo option. I told him he can buy a new stereo for ~$100 and he'd be all set. He said he's OCD about a new stereo not fitting properly and looking like the original factory install, so he will be buying a Tacoma when the new design comes out. I helpfully informed him he was crazy.  Fortunately, he took it well.

It is always disappointing when this happens. Maybe there is another reason that he hasn't told you about...

it's a $6 setup and fairly rock solid. You might want to tell him that.
+1

Coworker told me at a group dinner that he just paid $5k for ACL surgery on his dog. Everyone in the group proceeded to discuss some new pet health insurance that just came out. Some people said that they were planning to get it.

I agree that it is important to take care of your animals, but $5,000? But what do I know? I think animals belong in the wild or producing something on a farm. Animals are an expensive hobby.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7528 on: March 20, 2015, 02:28:10 PM »

Coworker told me at a group dinner that he just paid $5k for ACL surgery on his dog. Everyone in the group proceeded to discuss some new pet health insurance that just came out. Some people said that they were planning to get it.

I agree that it is important to take care of your animals, but $5,000? But what do I know? I think animals belong in the wild or producing something on a farm. Animals are an expensive hobby.

Yeah I don't know what I would do. I don't plan on having any kids so maybe someday I will get a dog and if that's the case I can see myself wanting to take care of him as best as I can, which may include spending this much on surgery. But this would be a more emotional decision and not a rational one.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7529 on: March 20, 2015, 02:31:46 PM »
I agree that it is important to take care of your animals, but $5,000? But what do I know? I think animals belong in the wild or producing something on a farm. Animals are an expensive hobby.

I have a friend who just spent that on his cat that disappeared and showed back up a week later dragging a shattered leg and had gashes on his back and stomache.  Definitely not a frugal choice but his cat is awesome and he loves him to death and it's one of those things where if he didn't do it he'd had to have put him down and would have regretted it the rest of his life.  Sometimes mustachianism is about being able to do ridiculous things you wouldn't have otherwise had the option to do.

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7530 on: March 20, 2015, 02:36:57 PM »
I agree luxurious, but sometimes necessary.  I could not imagine having to share a bathroom with my teen.  I hate to even walk into her bathroom, I usually just shudder and shut the door.
Oh, I wouldn't go any lower. When I say ridiculous, I don't mean I'm considering further reductions, only that it's still wondrous and I'm reminding myself to be super-stoked about it.
When we have people over, it's usually LOTS of them, so even with 2 potties, the yard is often in play.

************************************************

My favorite CW finally told me how much he paid for his wife's new 4-Runner around Xmas. $39K!
We're both GS-12s, and he's slightly junior at 2 pay steps below... with kids... twice my mortgage payment... no 2nd job like I have... I really don't know how this was even possible. And he was just talking about how much it sucked to go from a contractor to GS, bringing home hundreds less per month. At least he admits he wouldn't do it again if he had the chance (I think he was just in the process of transitioning and the exact reality of the pay cut hadn't sunk in, even though he knew it was coming). This one regularly does a lot of stuff that makes me facepalm, but at the same time I can tell he's wrestling with a new understanding of needs vs. wants, and is interested in learning a new approach, so I do my best to sympathize while occasionally sharing my ideas.
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zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7531 on: March 20, 2015, 02:40:29 PM »
I helpfully informed him he was crazy.  Fortunately, he took it well.

Did you forget "fucking"? Because that is legitimately FUCKING crazy. Not just crazy. Holy fucking shit.
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Megma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7532 on: March 22, 2015, 09:32:13 PM »
I agree that it is important to take care of your animals, but $5,000? But what do I know? I think animals belong in the wild or producing something on a farm. Animals are an expensive hobby.

I have a friend who just spent that on his cat that disappeared and showed back up a week later dragging a shattered leg and had gashes on his back and stomache.  Definitely not a frugal choice but his cat is awesome and he loves him to death and it's one of those things where if he didn't do it he'd had to have put him down and would have regretted it the rest of his life.  Sometimes mustachianism is about being able to do ridiculous things you wouldn't have otherwise had the option to do.

I would consider it for my dog if she would be 100%ok with full life expectancy. She's old and I've had her since she was a puppy. I don't think I'd do something like doggie chemo where she'd be unlikely to live a long, full life afterwards but a bone? Probably. I've spent ~1k on her in the past for procedures she needed.
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iowajes

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7533 on: March 23, 2015, 06:41:44 AM »

I agree that it is important to take care of your animals, but $5,000?

If all it took was money for my dog to continue living a good life, I would definitely pay it.
When it comes to paying to extend what is no longer a happy life, then I would put the pet down.

But I would NEVER put down or get rid of a dog for something as fixable as an ACL.

dycker1978

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7534 on: March 23, 2015, 07:57:14 AM »
I agree that it is important to take care of your animals, but $5,000? But what do I know? I think animals belong in the wild or producing something on a farm. Animals are an expensive hobby.

I have a friend who just spent that on his cat that disappeared and showed back up a week later dragging a shattered leg and had gashes on his back and stomache.  Definitely not a frugal choice but his cat is awesome and he loves him to death and it's one of those things where if he didn't do it he'd had to have put him down and would have regretted it the rest of his life.  Sometimes mustachianism is about being able to do ridiculous things you wouldn't have otherwise had the option to do.

I would consider it for my dog if she would be 100%ok with full life expectancy. She's old and I've had her since she was a puppy. I don't think I'd do something like doggie chemo where she'd be unlikely to live a long, full life afterwards but a bone? Probably. I've spent ~1k on her in the past for procedures she needed.

+1  I had a dog that had a genetic condition(no family knowledge unfortunately), where its back vertrabrae swelled and caused it to go paralyzed in the back legs.  The surgery to repair was $5500, but the dog was 2 years old, and the vet said that we would be having to do the surgery every two years or so for its life.  So we opted to put her down.

Hardest decision that we have ever made for a pet, but finically, and the fact that the dog would have to endure several surgeries in its life, the best choice.

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7535 on: March 23, 2015, 09:03:35 AM »

I agree that it is important to take care of your animals, but $5,000?

If all it took was money for my dog to continue living a good life, I would definitely pay it.
When it comes to paying to extend what is no longer a happy life, then I would put the pet down.

But I would NEVER put down or get rid of a dog for something as fixable as an ACL.
Yeah, I'm pretty much with you there. My black lab suffered a complete ACL tear just after turning 5. He was otherwise healthy and I had raised him nearly from 6 weeks to be my only companion through some of the hardest times of my life. I agreed to a TPLO, estimated at $4k but fortunately not much over $3k in the end.
Four years later, he's turning 9, chasing the fuck out of squirrels, and generally acting like a puppy. He ran/walked at least 7 miles with me on Saturday without so much as a limp afterward. Would I do it again? Yep. I'd get a payday loan for that shit. There's money, and then there's love. <3 puppies.
When you consider that a lifetime of proper care and feeding can easily run $10-20k, something like this is easy to justify, as long as financial ruin doesn't result. The real problem is people not accounting for those lifetime costs and then giving up on their pets when life surprises them.

All that said... if he gets cancer when he's 10 or 12, the calculus is a little different and we may just make him comfortable and happy till the end. It's all about quality of life, and if it can't be helped, we'll just focus on minimal suffering.
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antarestar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7536 on: March 23, 2015, 11:03:23 AM »
I agree that it is important to take care of your animals, but $5,000? But what do I know? I think animals belong in the wild or producing something on a farm. Animals are an expensive hobby.

I have a friend who just spent that on his cat that disappeared and showed back up a week later dragging a shattered leg and had gashes on his back and stomache.  Definitely not a frugal choice but his cat is awesome and he loves him to death and it's one of those things where if he didn't do it he'd had to have put him down and would have regretted it the rest of his life.  Sometimes mustachianism is about being able to do ridiculous things you wouldn't have otherwise had the option to do.

 < --- asshole Cat did something similar. I was glad to have the money to pay cash for his surgeries, xrays, and paid to have him sedated for bandage changes each time.
He's my best friend and I was devastated that he was in pain.

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7537 on: March 23, 2015, 11:51:37 AM »

I agree that it is important to take care of your animals, but $5,000?

If all it took was money for my dog to continue living a good life, I would definitely pay it.
When it comes to paying to extend what is no longer a happy life, then I would put the pet down.

But I would NEVER put down or get rid of a dog for something as fixable as an ACL.
Yeah, I'm pretty much with you there. My black lab suffered a complete ACL tear just after turning 5. He was otherwise healthy and I had raised him nearly from 6 weeks to be my only companion through some of the hardest times of my life. I agreed to a TPLO, estimated at $4k but fortunately not much over $3k in the end.
Four years later, he's turning 9, chasing the fuck out of squirrels, and generally acting like a puppy. He ran/walked at least 7 miles with me on Saturday without so much as a limp afterward. Would I do it again? Yep. I'd get a payday loan for that shit. There's money, and then there's love. <3 puppies.
When you consider that a lifetime of proper care and feeding can easily run $10-20k, something like this is easy to justify, as long as financial ruin doesn't result. The real problem is people not accounting for those lifetime costs and then giving up on their pets when life surprises them.

All that said... if he gets cancer when he's 10 or 12, the calculus is a little different and we may just make him comfortable and happy till the end. It's all about quality of life, and if it can't be helped, we'll just focus on minimal suffering.

My dog had tremendous pain opening her mouth, and nearly lost sight in one eye pretty much out of the blue this year.  I was pretty sure that we were going to lose her.  Between painkillers, antibiotics, tests, and some eventual surgery it ended up costing us about three grand.  She's good as new a few months later now.

Dogs are typically so happy.  A sick dog shivering in pain is the saddest thing in the world.  Money to make things better for them is well spent.

trailrated

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7538 on: March 23, 2015, 01:06:25 PM »
UPDATE FROM THIS POST:

Quote
Co-worker I have mentioned in posts before had a new gem yesterday. Guy went from flipping burgers getting minimum wage to making ~$45,000 (no rent, lives with his grandmother) and has 2 credit cards maxed out. He tried to buy a motorcycle the other weekend but he was denied due to his credit score which he said was around 560.

Anyways I get a call in the office from Kay Jewelers, asking for employment verification for said individual. He wanted.... no, his girlfriend wanted him to buy an engagement ring for her. He didn't have the money, his cards were maxed out, so he took out and was approved for a loan from the store for $4,000 at 24% interest.

He is making more money than he ever has in his life, he is not paying rent, and his net worth just keeps going further in the red. Also he cheated on the girlfriend he got the ring for a few months ago... needless to say I am pretty sure this is headed for disaster.

He proposed about a week and a half ago. Found out three days ago she is still fucking some other dude. True love <3
"What matters most is how well you walk through the fire. "

Elliot

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7539 on: March 23, 2015, 01:56:17 PM »
Yeah but did the other dude get her the bigger ring?

gimp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7540 on: March 23, 2015, 03:56:23 PM »
No, but he put something in her ring!

But in seriousness, hope the guy can return the thing and get his $4k back. Suuuuuuuuuuuucks.

trailrated

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7541 on: March 23, 2015, 04:46:31 PM »
No, but he put something in her ring!

But in seriousness, hope the guy can return the thing and get his $4k back. Suuuuuuuuuuuucks.

That made me laugh my ass off, thank you. And updates to follow as they come in.
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okonumiyaki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7542 on: March 23, 2015, 06:56:13 PM »


He proposed about a week and a half ago. Found out three days ago she is still fucking some other dude. True love <3

Reminds me of the scene from "Four Weddings & A Funeral"

How's your gorgeous girlfriend?

- She's no longer my girlfriend.               

Ah, dear. I wouldn't get too gloomy about it.  Rumour has it she never stopped bonking Toby de Lisle in case you didn't work out.
                 
 - She is now my wife.
               
Excellent. Congratulations.  Excuse me.

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7543 on: March 24, 2015, 12:10:11 PM »
UPDATE FROM THIS POST:

Quote
Co-worker I have mentioned in posts before had a new gem yesterday. Guy went from flipping burgers getting minimum wage to making ~$45,000 (no rent, lives with his grandmother) and has 2 credit cards maxed out. He tried to buy a motorcycle the other weekend but he was denied due to his credit score which he said was around 560.

Anyways I get a call in the office from Kay Jewelers, asking for employment verification for said individual. He wanted.... no, his girlfriend wanted him to buy an engagement ring for her. He didn't have the money, his cards were maxed out, so he took out and was approved for a loan from the store for $4,000 at 24% interest.

He is making more money than he ever has in his life, he is not paying rent, and his net worth just keeps going further in the red. Also he cheated on the girlfriend he got the ring for a few months ago... needless to say I am pretty sure this is headed for disaster.

He proposed about a week and a half ago. Found out three days ago she is still fucking some other dude. True love <3
In This Thread: Assholes Who Fucking Deserve Each Other.
Good gawd.
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Rosewhipped

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7544 on: March 24, 2015, 08:56:10 PM »
Woman at work gets her hair cut at the mall salon and it costs $27 just for the cut, probably a wash too.  She shocked me when she said it's "like $50 bucks every time because I have to tip her $20."

This blew me away--over 70% tip!! Wow.  I tried to share my shock with both my sister and another co-worker and they were both unimpressed and essentially said that they also tip their hairdressers well.... 

Elliot

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7545 on: March 24, 2015, 09:03:30 PM »
I would probably tip 50%. A good hairdresser can be a thing of beauty if you can find and afford it, but there's also a reason my partner and I cut each orher's hair.

horsepoor

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7546 on: March 24, 2015, 10:07:47 PM »
I would probably tip 50%. A good hairdresser can be a thing of beauty if you can find and afford it, but there's also a reason my partner and I cut each orher's hair.

Am I a terrible person for not routinely tipping my hairdresser?  She is self-employed with her own salon, so I figure she should set her rates to whatever she thinks her work is worth.  Sometimes I tip if I'm a pain in the ass to schedule, or she changes the style or something, but regular cut, no.

Wings5

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7547 on: March 24, 2015, 10:36:28 PM »
My boys need to read this. They never tip! Cheapskate kindergarteners! I'm going to start buzzing smiley faces in the back of their heads.

RunHappy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7548 on: March 25, 2015, 06:26:00 AM »
I would probably tip 50%. A good hairdresser can be a thing of beauty if you can find and afford it, but there's also a reason my partner and I cut each orher's hair.

Am I a terrible person for not routinely tipping my hairdresser?  She is self-employed with her own salon, so I figure she should set her rates to whatever she thinks her work is worth.  Sometimes I tip if I'm a pain in the ass to schedule, or she changes the style or something, but regular cut, no.

Rule of thumb is that if the stylist if the owner then tipping is not necessary.  If they are renting a station then tipping is customary.  The percentage depends on the geographical, type of cut, how long it took, etc.  I only get cuts a couple times a year (if even that), so I tend to tip about 25%.  I also do not color or otherwise treat my hair.  my friend says that if you are getting more done, because it is more labor intensive then the tipping percentage goes up but should not exceed 50%.  50% would only for something absolutely amazing and unique (maybe a bridal updo). 

Giro

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7549 on: March 25, 2015, 06:42:14 AM »
I have to jump in just to comment on the hair salon tipping.  I used to be a total cheapskate with my stylist tip amounts.  I found an amazing stylist and the first time she did my hair, I tipped her like 50%.  It is just a cut and style.  The next time I went their she gave me 50% off my cut, so I tipped her big again.  She has since NEVER charged me full price for a cut and style.  It turned out actually saving me money by tipping largely.

1st visit - $30 cut and $15 tip = $45
2nd visit - $15 cut and $15 tip = $30
3rd and all visitis since - $10 cut and $15 tip = $25

she is making the same and I'm paying less.  WIN/WIN