Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8618367 times)

Hedge_87

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20650 on: July 24, 2018, 10:56:21 AM »
In this heat... HAHAHA... Canadian heat? Come south of the Mason Dixon line for a visit in July/August.

Actually its been really nice this week at times. Just jerking your chain.

Right, eh?  When it is super hot and humid we like to say "If we wanted Florida weather we would move to Florida".   And the old standard, "it's not the heat, it's the humidity". Which is equally true in winter, it feels so much colder when it is damp.  ;-)

Of course as we enjoy (mostly) the heat, we know the true reality - winter is coming.

Like the game of thrones reference. :)

UnleashHell

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20651 on: July 24, 2018, 10:56:33 AM »


Of course as we enjoy (mostly) the heat, we know the true reality - winter is coming.

oh crap.
Snowbirds!!!!

Jouer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20652 on: July 24, 2018, 11:06:45 AM »
In this heat... HAHAHA... Canadian heat? Come south of the Mason Dixon line for a visit in July/August.

Actually its been really nice this week at times. Just jerking your chain.

Right, eh?  When it is super hot and humid we like to say "If we wanted Florida weather we would move to Florida".   And the old standard, "it's not the heat, it's the humidity". Which is equally true in winter, it feels so much colder when it is damp.  ;-)

Of course as we enjoy (mostly) the heat, we know the true reality - winter is coming.

Yep, on Canada Day it was 35 but 48 with the humidity (95, 118 for our American friends). I love heat but I just about melted that day. Keep in mind, in winter is it routinely -25 to -30 (-13, -22). Don't ask why I live here....I surely do not know.

ms

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20653 on: July 24, 2018, 11:16:50 AM »
Yep, on Canada Day it was 35 but 48 with the humidity (95, 118 for our American friends). I love heat but I just about melted that day. Keep in mind, in winter is it routinely -25 to -30 (-13, -22). Don't ask why I live here....I surely do not know.

+1 Why I live where the air hurts my face

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20654 on: July 24, 2018, 11:54:20 AM »
Overheard just now between two older white gentlemen at the water cooler:
“I don’t appreciate all of this diversity crap in the ethics training”.

The rest of the workforce: “Sigh”.

DS

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20655 on: July 24, 2018, 01:08:22 PM »
Overheard just now between two older white gentlemen at the water cooler:
“I don’t appreciate all of this diversity crap in the ethics training”.

The rest of the workforce: “Sigh”.

Have they been saying that since 1990? Seems like they're a little behind. I feel like diversity isn't even in the trainings anymore because it's just expected.

kina

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20656 on: July 24, 2018, 01:13:17 PM »
Not direct co-workers of mine, but a group of people I semi-regularly hang out with who all work at the same hospital:

Part 1 -
CW1: I can't save at the moment. My rent is already over half my salary!
CW2: Then why do you live in such an expensive place?!
CW1: Well, I have cats that I want to give sufficient space (fair enough) plus it's harder to find a rental with a cat.
CW2: But you have a whole house, couldn't you take a flatmate for the 2nd bedroom?
CW1: I've had a bad experience with a flatmate before so I prefer living alone.

Part 2 -
Me: But still, after your rent there's $800 left, where does that go?
CW1: Well, taking care of the cats. And I spend a lot on food too.
Me: Like, how much? Just trying to help you here as it sounds like you're stressed about money..
CW1: Like $50/week?
Me: That's double my spend..
CW1: But I eat vegetarian! It's more expensive
Me: So do I..

It kept on going like this.. all of that while consuming fancy $5 special beers in a bar. Note: our salaries are low so saving $50/month on groceries would already be a huge deal for her. I genuinely wanted to help her as she sounded stressed about money, but she kept coming up with excuses on why she couldn't go to a cheaper gym, eat cheaper food, get a cheaper house or whatever expense I mentioned.
She plays a good game of YesBut!

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20657 on: July 24, 2018, 05:40:28 PM »
Overheard just now between two older white gentlemen at the water cooler:
“I don’t appreciate all of this diversity crap in the ethics training”.

The rest of the workforce: “Sigh”.

Have they been saying that since 1990? Seems like they're a little behind. I feel like diversity isn't even in the trainings anymore because it's just expected.

At companies that do more than lip service? Absolutely.

At companies that only do ethics and diversity training so they can point to something when they're inevitably sued? Yeah, not so much.

"I don't see color" is still considered a reasonable approach to diversity in my company.

plainjane

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20658 on: July 24, 2018, 08:03:20 PM »
Tidying up the office for an upcoming client visit, my boss picks up a framed copy of the iconic Obama poster and says, "we should probably remove this".
I replied, "Yes, it's depressing."
My boss sighed, I believe in agreement.
The office admin (aged 30) says, "Who is it?"

*sigh*

draculawyer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20659 on: July 24, 2018, 09:08:51 PM »
I recently found out that everyone I work with still has law school debt.  They’ve all been lawyers for 10-15 years, drive nice cars, take exotic three-week vacations every year. One woman I work with said “oh, yeah, the interest rate is really low so I’m not worried about it. I have like $400,000 in debt and that’s only a little bit of it, so.”

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20660 on: July 24, 2018, 10:16:57 PM »
Wow. I remember when a HS classmate posted on FB a while back about how her law school debt was finally under six figures.
I was floored at the time at that level of student debt. Four times that? I don’t even have words.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20661 on: July 24, 2018, 10:53:49 PM »
Not direct co-workers of mine, but a group of people I semi-regularly hang out with who all work at the same hospital:

Part 1 -
CW1: I can't save at the moment. My rent is already over half my salary!
CW2: Then why do you live in such an expensive place?!
CW1: Well, I have cats that I want to give sufficient space (fair enough) plus it's harder to find a rental with a cat.
CW2: But you have a whole house, couldn't you take a flatmate for the 2nd bedroom?
CW1: I've had a bad experience with a flatmate before so I prefer living alone.

Part 2 -
Me: But still, after your rent there's $800 left, where does that go?
CW1: Well, taking care of the cats. And I spend a lot on food too.
Me: Like, how much? Just trying to help you here as it sounds like you're stressed about money..
CW1: Like $50/week?
Me: That's double my spend..
CW1: But I eat vegetarian! It's more expensive
Me: So do I..

It kept on going like this.. all of that while consuming fancy $5 special beers in a bar. Note: our salaries are low so saving $50/month on groceries would already be a huge deal for her. I genuinely wanted to help her as she sounded stressed about money, but she kept coming up with excuses on why she couldn't go to a cheaper gym, eat cheaper food, get a cheaper house or whatever expense I mentioned.
She plays a good game of YesBut!

YesBut is also a strategy to make sure that the player gets exactly what s/he wants at someone else's expense.

A skilled YesBut player has an unreasonable goal. It doesn't matter what the goal is: maybe it's to live rent-free in someone else's home, or maybe it's to enjoy a higher standard of living than the player's productivity and income justify. The game requires two people: the YesBut player, and the designated "rescuer". It frequently takes months or even years to come to fruition.

The game works like this: the player systematically paints himself or herself into a corner by rejecting anything less than the unreasonable goal, and then creates an objectively predictable crisis. The player keeps it up until a crisis occurs, and the designated rescuer (possibly you) has no choice except to provide the unreasonable goal, or allow the player to experience something truly terrible such as homelessness or bankruptcy. It's a manipulation play that gradually builds up a relationship between the player and the rescuer. Here's an example.

Player: Can I move in with you?
Rescuer: No. You trash the place and let junkies in. Move in with that friend you think so highly of.
Player: Yes, but she does illegal drugs and wants me to do them too!
Rescuer: That's the lifestyle you like, though. You love being around druggies. What about your auntie?
Player: Yes, but she's asking me to pay rent!
Rescuer: So move in with your boyfriend.
Player: Yes, but I've got an order of protection because of the domestic.
Rescuer: So move in with your older brother who's willing to let you stay there in exchange for housework.
Player: Yes, but one of his friends stole everything out of my room!
Rescuer: All right. Here's the contact information of someone who's renting out a room. It's along a major bus route, it's within your budget, it's a clean drug-free household, and you can afford it based on your income.
Player: Yes, but I don't want to live with someone I don't know.
Rescuer: The people you know are mostly low-lifes.
Player: Yes, but I can't afford an apartment on my own.
Rescuer: Sell your car and take the bus to work.
Player: Yes, but I need my car and anyway it's in the shop.
Rescuer: I tell you what. You find someone who's a responsible roommate, so that the two of you earn enough money to qualify for an apartment, and I'll give you the first month's rent and the damage deposit up to $X.
Player: Yes, but I'd rather use the $X for car repairs.
(time passes)
Player: Waaah! The money is all gone and I have nowhere to live! Can I move in with you?
Rescuer: Better go where you'll be able to work your way through. You're going to have to learn to be decent to somebody. Your brother offered to put you up.
(a week later)
Player: I got in a fight with my brother and I'm going to be homeless! Can I move in with you?

The player gets chance after chance to improve his or her situation, but turns up his or her nose at every possible solution except the one his or her heart is set on.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20662 on: July 25, 2018, 12:05:36 AM »
@TheGrimSqueaker nails it!

Can we coin "strategic crisis" as a term? It seems like an oxymoron but the skilled YesBut player makes them happen. They are highly convincing if you are the type to identify the potential for a crisis and then avoid it.

Hirondelle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20663 on: July 25, 2018, 06:13:25 AM »
Totally nailed it indeed.

I don't have any friends around at this level of crisis fortunately, but phew that would be tough to keep saying no.

chiefsuave

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20664 on: July 25, 2018, 06:24:20 AM »
I walk into the office, first thing I hear.

CW: " If I don't look at my bank account it's like I never spent that money "
Me: Walk immediately out, I don't need this negativity in my life lol

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20665 on: July 25, 2018, 06:38:20 AM »
@TheGrimSqueaker nails it!

Can we coin "strategic crisis" as a term? It seems like an oxymoron but the skilled YesBut player makes them happen. They are highly convincing if you are the type to identify the potential for a crisis and then avoid it.

I've been labeling it "voluntary helplessness" but your term may be better.

I think-- but cannot prove-- that it may be an outgrowth of the self-help motivational book concept of focusing on the thing you want, going after it (as in, performing the tasks that produce it as a plausible outcome), and not settling for anything less. Except, of course, for the bit about performing tasks, unless of course it's self-sabotage.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20666 on: July 25, 2018, 07:05:10 AM »
@TheGrimSqueaker nails it!

Can we coin "strategic crisis" as a term? It seems like an oxymoron but the skilled YesBut player makes them happen. They are highly convincing if you are the type to identify the potential for a crisis and then avoid it.

I've been labeling it "voluntary helplessness" but your term may be better.

I think-- but cannot prove-- that it may be an outgrowth of the self-help motivational book concept of focusing on the thing you want, going after it (as in, performing the tasks that produce it as a plausible outcome), and not settling for anything less. Except, of course, for the bit about performing tasks, unless of course it's self-sabotage.

When I was an enabler of this sort of nonsense I was a total sucker for a crisis. There was something about the heightened state of emergency that by-passed my bullshit filters. You know the idea of thinking fast and slow? I might have thinking-in-a-crisis and thinking-well modes.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20667 on: July 25, 2018, 07:19:32 AM »
Problem is, when a normal person has a crisis then it genuinely is a crisis and deserves a crisis level response. When a moocher has a strategic crisis, it kind of is a crisis but it's hard to judge what kind of response it deserves, because it feels weird to give a non-crisis response to a crisis.

frugalfoothills

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20668 on: July 25, 2018, 10:37:31 AM »
Mr. Peloton informed me this morning that he's going to be having the exterior of his house painted. We got on the subject because I have to have mine done next year (for maintenance/upkeep reasons), but his reason?

"I hate the color yellow. Now that the inside is so pretty I'm just ready for a change."

Imagine loving the color blue so much you're willing to shell out $5k on it?!?!

markbike528CBX

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20669 on: July 25, 2018, 12:39:16 PM »
Mr. Peloton informed me this morning that he's going to be having the exterior of his house painted. We got on the subject because I have to have mine done next year (for maintenance/upkeep reasons), but his reason?

"I hate the color yellow. Now that the inside is so pretty I'm just ready for a change."

Imagine loving the color blue so much you're willing to shell out $5k on it?!?!

Only if it is a Hoovaloo http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Hooloovoo, but then there are ethical issues with painting your house with a superintelligent shade of blue.

Disclosure:  My house has previously been blue ( 3d prior owner).

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20670 on: July 25, 2018, 03:00:55 PM »
Problem is, when a normal person has a crisis then it genuinely is a crisis and deserves a crisis level response. When a moocher has a strategic crisis, it kind of is a crisis but it's hard to judge what kind of response it deserves, because it feels weird to give a non-crisis response to a crisis.

Yes, Genius! That is the true evil power of the strategic crisis.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20671 on: July 26, 2018, 12:31:14 AM »
Problem is, when a normal person has a crisis then it genuinely is a crisis and deserves a crisis level response. When a moocher has a strategic crisis, it kind of is a crisis but it's hard to judge what kind of response it deserves, because it feels weird to give a non-crisis response to a crisis.

Yes, Genius! That is the true evil power of the strategic crisis.

I have learned much from you, O Wise One.

Spiffsome

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20672 on: July 26, 2018, 04:23:58 AM »
Stress reduces your ability to think clearly. By creating the crisis, the moocher generates a bunch of stress in a target who genuinely cares about them, reducing the target's ability to think clearly about the long-term issue.

It's even more effective when the crisis is time-sensitive - the landlord will toss me out tomorrow, the bill is due this week, etc. It works the same way as the 'one day only' sales technique - rush someone into making an impulsive decision before they can calm down and think things through.

frugalecon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20673 on: July 26, 2018, 07:02:18 AM »
Not direct co-workers of mine, but a group of people I semi-regularly hang out with who all work at the same hospital:

Part 1 -
CW1: I can't save at the moment. My rent is already over half my salary!
CW2: Then why do you live in such an expensive place?!
CW1: Well, I have cats that I want to give sufficient space (fair enough) plus it's harder to find a rental with a cat.
CW2: But you have a whole house, couldn't you take a flatmate for the 2nd bedroom?
CW1: I've had a bad experience with a flatmate before so I prefer living alone.

Part 2 -
Me: But still, after your rent there's $800 left, where does that go?
CW1: Well, taking care of the cats. And I spend a lot on food too.
Me: Like, how much? Just trying to help you here as it sounds like you're stressed about money..
CW1: Like $50/week?
Me: That's double my spend..
CW1: But I eat vegetarian! It's more expensive
Me: So do I..

It kept on going like this.. all of that while consuming fancy $5 special beers in a bar. Note: our salaries are low so saving $50/month on groceries would already be a huge deal for her. I genuinely wanted to help her as she sounded stressed about money, but she kept coming up with excuses on why she couldn't go to a cheaper gym, eat cheaper food, get a cheaper house or whatever expense I mentioned.
She plays a good game of YesBut!

YesBut is also a strategy to make sure that the player gets exactly what s/he wants at someone else's expense.

A skilled YesBut player has an unreasonable goal. It doesn't matter what the goal is: maybe it's to live rent-free in someone else's home, or maybe it's to enjoy a higher standard of living than the player's productivity and income justify. The game requires two people: the YesBut player, and the designated "rescuer". It frequently takes months or even years to come to fruition.

The game works like this: the player systematically paints himself or herself into a corner by rejecting anything less than the unreasonable goal, and then creates an objectively predictable crisis. The player keeps it up until a crisis occurs, and the designated rescuer (possibly you) has no choice except to provide the unreasonable goal, or allow the player to experience something truly terrible such as homelessness or bankruptcy. It's a manipulation play that gradually builds up a relationship between the player and the rescuer. Here's an example.

Player: Can I move in with you?
Rescuer: No. You trash the place and let junkies in. Move in with that friend you think so highly of.
Player: Yes, but she does illegal drugs and wants me to do them too!
Rescuer: That's the lifestyle you like, though. You love being around druggies. What about your auntie?
Player: Yes, but she's asking me to pay rent!
Rescuer: So move in with your boyfriend.
Player: Yes, but I've got an order of protection because of the domestic.
Rescuer: So move in with your older brother who's willing to let you stay there in exchange for housework.
Player: Yes, but one of his friends stole everything out of my room!
Rescuer: All right. Here's the contact information of someone who's renting out a room. It's along a major bus route, it's within your budget, it's a clean drug-free household, and you can afford it based on your income.
Player: Yes, but I don't want to live with someone I don't know.
Rescuer: The people you know are mostly low-lifes.
Player: Yes, but I can't afford an apartment on my own.
Rescuer: Sell your car and take the bus to work.
Player: Yes, but I need my car and anyway it's in the shop.
Rescuer: I tell you what. You find someone who's a responsible roommate, so that the two of you earn enough money to qualify for an apartment, and I'll give you the first month's rent and the damage deposit up to $X.
Player: Yes, but I'd rather use the $X for car repairs.
(time passes)
Player: Waaah! The money is all gone and I have nowhere to live! Can I move in with you?
Rescuer: Better go where you'll be able to work your way through. You're going to have to learn to be decent to somebody. Your brother offered to put you up.
(a week later)
Player: I got in a fight with my brother and I'm going to be homeless! Can I move in with you?

The player gets chance after chance to improve his or her situation, but turns up his or her nose at every possible solution except the one his or her heart is set on.

Wow, this is pure gold. I would say that it should be reproduced and taught in school so that people could learn to protect themselves, but budding YesBut players might use it to hone their game.

TartanTallulah

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20674 on: July 26, 2018, 09:17:40 AM »
"You're lucky," said a colleague when I handed in my notice recently. "I won't be able to retire until I'm in my late sixties, with university fees to pay."

This'll be the colleague about whom I joke that the only reason she has a job is so that she's got an address to which Amazon can send parcels without her husband finding out, for she certainly doesn't come here to work.

It's her husband's birthday soon. He doesn't want a fuss. So she's only organised a small celebration. Just a little marquee for a few guests, outside catering, a solo singer and a band.

I suspect priorities rather than luck.

SweetRedWine

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20675 on: July 26, 2018, 09:43:43 AM »
Not direct co-workers of mine, but a group of people I semi-regularly hang out with who all work at the same hospital:

Part 1 -
CW1: I can't save at the moment. My rent is already over half my salary!
CW2: Then why do you live in such an expensive place?!
CW1: Well, I have cats that I want to give sufficient space (fair enough) plus it's harder to find a rental with a cat.
CW2: But you have a whole house, couldn't you take a flatmate for the 2nd bedroom?
CW1: I've had a bad experience with a flatmate before so I prefer living alone.

Part 2 -
Me: But still, after your rent there's $800 left, where does that go?
CW1: Well, taking care of the cats. And I spend a lot on food too.
Me: Like, how much? Just trying to help you here as it sounds like you're stressed about money..
CW1: Like $50/week?
Me: That's double my spend..
CW1: But I eat vegetarian! It's more expensive
Me: So do I..

It kept on going like this.. all of that while consuming fancy $5 special beers in a bar. Note: our salaries are low so saving $50/month on groceries would already be a huge deal for her. I genuinely wanted to help her as she sounded stressed about money, but she kept coming up with excuses on why she couldn't go to a cheaper gym, eat cheaper food, get a cheaper house or whatever expense I mentioned.
She plays a good game of YesBut!

YesBut is also a strategy to make sure that the player gets exactly what s/he wants at someone else's expense.

A skilled YesBut player has an unreasonable goal. It doesn't matter what the goal is: maybe it's to live rent-free in someone else's home, or maybe it's to enjoy a higher standard of living than the player's productivity and income justify. The game requires two people: the YesBut player, and the designated "rescuer". It frequently takes months or even years to come to fruition.

The game works like this: the player systematically paints himself or herself into a corner by rejecting anything less than the unreasonable goal, and then creates an objectively predictable crisis. The player keeps it up until a crisis occurs, and the designated rescuer (possibly you) has no choice except to provide the unreasonable goal, or allow the player to experience something truly terrible such as homelessness or bankruptcy. It's a manipulation play that gradually builds up a relationship between the player and the rescuer. Here's an example.

Player: Can I move in with you?
Rescuer: No. You trash the place and let junkies in. Move in with that friend you think so highly of.
Player: Yes, but she does illegal drugs and wants me to do them too!
Rescuer: That's the lifestyle you like, though. You love being around druggies. What about your auntie?
Player: Yes, but she's asking me to pay rent!
Rescuer: So move in with your boyfriend.
Player: Yes, but I've got an order of protection because of the domestic.
Rescuer: So move in with your older brother who's willing to let you stay there in exchange for housework.
Player: Yes, but one of his friends stole everything out of my room!
Rescuer: All right. Here's the contact information of someone who's renting out a room. It's along a major bus route, it's within your budget, it's a clean drug-free household, and you can afford it based on your income.
Player: Yes, but I don't want to live with someone I don't know.
Rescuer: The people you know are mostly low-lifes.
Player: Yes, but I can't afford an apartment on my own.
Rescuer: Sell your car and take the bus to work.
Player: Yes, but I need my car and anyway it's in the shop.
Rescuer: I tell you what. You find someone who's a responsible roommate, so that the two of you earn enough money to qualify for an apartment, and I'll give you the first month's rent and the damage deposit up to $X.
Player: Yes, but I'd rather use the $X for car repairs.
(time passes)
Player: Waaah! The money is all gone and I have nowhere to live! Can I move in with you?
Rescuer: Better go where you'll be able to work your way through. You're going to have to learn to be decent to somebody. Your brother offered to put you up.
(a week later)
Player: I got in a fight with my brother and I'm going to be homeless! Can I move in with you?

The player gets chance after chance to improve his or her situation, but turns up his or her nose at every possible solution except the one his or her heart is set on.

Wow, this is pure gold. I would say that it should be reproduced and taught in school so that people could learn to protect themselves, but budding YesBut players might use it to hone their game.

Definitely second this!  This dialogue should be used for defensive purposes only. 

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20676 on: July 26, 2018, 10:36:24 AM »
Not direct co-workers of mine, but a group of people I semi-regularly hang out with who all work at the same hospital:

Part 1 -
CW1: I can't save at the moment. My rent is already over half my salary!
CW2: Then why do you live in such an expensive place?!
CW1: Well, I have cats that I want to give sufficient space (fair enough) plus it's harder to find a rental with a cat.
CW2: But you have a whole house, couldn't you take a flatmate for the 2nd bedroom?
CW1: I've had a bad experience with a flatmate before so I prefer living alone.

Part 2 -
Me: But still, after your rent there's $800 left, where does that go?
CW1: Well, taking care of the cats. And I spend a lot on food too.
Me: Like, how much? Just trying to help you here as it sounds like you're stressed about money..
CW1: Like $50/week?
Me: That's double my spend..
CW1: But I eat vegetarian! It's more expensive
Me: So do I..

It kept on going like this.. all of that while consuming fancy $5 special beers in a bar. Note: our salaries are low so saving $50/month on groceries would already be a huge deal for her. I genuinely wanted to help her as she sounded stressed about money, but she kept coming up with excuses on why she couldn't go to a cheaper gym, eat cheaper food, get a cheaper house or whatever expense I mentioned.
She plays a good game of YesBut!

YesBut is also a strategy to make sure that the player gets exactly what s/he wants at someone else's expense.

A skilled YesBut player has an unreasonable goal. It doesn't matter what the goal is: maybe it's to live rent-free in someone else's home, or maybe it's to enjoy a higher standard of living than the player's productivity and income justify. The game requires two people: the YesBut player, and the designated "rescuer". It frequently takes months or even years to come to fruition.

The game works like this: the player systematically paints himself or herself into a corner by rejecting anything less than the unreasonable goal, and then creates an objectively predictable crisis. The player keeps it up until a crisis occurs, and the designated rescuer (possibly you) has no choice except to provide the unreasonable goal, or allow the player to experience something truly terrible such as homelessness or bankruptcy. It's a manipulation play that gradually builds up a relationship between the player and the rescuer. Here's an example.

Player: Can I move in with you?
Rescuer: No. You trash the place and let junkies in. Move in with that friend you think so highly of.
Player: Yes, but she does illegal drugs and wants me to do them too!
Rescuer: That's the lifestyle you like, though. You love being around druggies. What about your auntie?
Player: Yes, but she's asking me to pay rent!
Rescuer: So move in with your boyfriend.
Player: Yes, but I've got an order of protection because of the domestic.
Rescuer: So move in with your older brother who's willing to let you stay there in exchange for housework.
Player: Yes, but one of his friends stole everything out of my room!
Rescuer: All right. Here's the contact information of someone who's renting out a room. It's along a major bus route, it's within your budget, it's a clean drug-free household, and you can afford it based on your income.
Player: Yes, but I don't want to live with someone I don't know.
Rescuer: The people you know are mostly low-lifes.
Player: Yes, but I can't afford an apartment on my own.
Rescuer: Sell your car and take the bus to work.
Player: Yes, but I need my car and anyway it's in the shop.
Rescuer: I tell you what. You find someone who's a responsible roommate, so that the two of you earn enough money to qualify for an apartment, and I'll give you the first month's rent and the damage deposit up to $X.
Player: Yes, but I'd rather use the $X for car repairs.
(time passes)
Player: Waaah! The money is all gone and I have nowhere to live! Can I move in with you?
Rescuer: Better go where you'll be able to work your way through. You're going to have to learn to be decent to somebody. Your brother offered to put you up.
(a week later)
Player: I got in a fight with my brother and I'm going to be homeless! Can I move in with you?

The player gets chance after chance to improve his or her situation, but turns up his or her nose at every possible solution except the one his or her heart is set on.

Wow, this is pure gold. I would say that it should be reproduced and taught in school so that people could learn to protect themselves, but budding YesBut players might use it to hone their game.

Definitely second this!  This dialogue should be used for defensive purposes only.

Rescuer is doing a bunch of unpaid labor there, which I object to. The answer is, and always is, "No." Might say it a million times, but "No." Puts the problem back where it belongs: with Player.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20677 on: July 26, 2018, 12:47:40 PM »
Not direct co-workers of mine, but a group of people I semi-regularly hang out with who all work at the same hospital:

Part 1 -
CW1: I can't save at the moment. My rent is already over half my salary!
CW2: Then why do you live in such an expensive place?!
CW1: Well, I have cats that I want to give sufficient space (fair enough) plus it's harder to find a rental with a cat.
CW2: But you have a whole house, couldn't you take a flatmate for the 2nd bedroom?
CW1: I've had a bad experience with a flatmate before so I prefer living alone.

Part 2 -
Me: But still, after your rent there's $800 left, where does that go?
CW1: Well, taking care of the cats. And I spend a lot on food too.
Me: Like, how much? Just trying to help you here as it sounds like you're stressed about money..
CW1: Like $50/week?
Me: That's double my spend..
CW1: But I eat vegetarian! It's more expensive
Me: So do I..

It kept on going like this.. all of that while consuming fancy $5 special beers in a bar. Note: our salaries are low so saving $50/month on groceries would already be a huge deal for her. I genuinely wanted to help her as she sounded stressed about money, but she kept coming up with excuses on why she couldn't go to a cheaper gym, eat cheaper food, get a cheaper house or whatever expense I mentioned.
She plays a good game of YesBut!

YesBut is also a strategy to make sure that the player gets exactly what s/he wants at someone else's expense.

A skilled YesBut player has an unreasonable goal. It doesn't matter what the goal is: maybe it's to live rent-free in someone else's home, or maybe it's to enjoy a higher standard of living than the player's productivity and income justify. The game requires two people: the YesBut player, and the designated "rescuer". It frequently takes months or even years to come to fruition.

The game works like this: the player systematically paints himself or herself into a corner by rejecting anything less than the unreasonable goal, and then creates an objectively predictable crisis. The player keeps it up until a crisis occurs, and the designated rescuer (possibly you) has no choice except to provide the unreasonable goal, or allow the player to experience something truly terrible such as homelessness or bankruptcy. It's a manipulation play that gradually builds up a relationship between the player and the rescuer. Here's an example.

Player: Can I move in with you?
Rescuer: No. You trash the place and let junkies in. Move in with that friend you think so highly of.
Player: Yes, but she does illegal drugs and wants me to do them too!
Rescuer: That's the lifestyle you like, though. You love being around druggies. What about your auntie?
Player: Yes, but she's asking me to pay rent!
Rescuer: So move in with your boyfriend.
Player: Yes, but I've got an order of protection because of the domestic.
Rescuer: So move in with your older brother who's willing to let you stay there in exchange for housework.
Player: Yes, but one of his friends stole everything out of my room!
Rescuer: All right. Here's the contact information of someone who's renting out a room. It's along a major bus route, it's within your budget, it's a clean drug-free household, and you can afford it based on your income.
Player: Yes, but I don't want to live with someone I don't know.
Rescuer: The people you know are mostly low-lifes.
Player: Yes, but I can't afford an apartment on my own.
Rescuer: Sell your car and take the bus to work.
Player: Yes, but I need my car and anyway it's in the shop.
Rescuer: I tell you what. You find someone who's a responsible roommate, so that the two of you earn enough money to qualify for an apartment, and I'll give you the first month's rent and the damage deposit up to $X.
Player: Yes, but I'd rather use the $X for car repairs.
(time passes)
Player: Waaah! The money is all gone and I have nowhere to live! Can I move in with you?
Rescuer: Better go where you'll be able to work your way through. You're going to have to learn to be decent to somebody. Your brother offered to put you up.
(a week later)
Player: I got in a fight with my brother and I'm going to be homeless! Can I move in with you?

The player gets chance after chance to improve his or her situation, but turns up his or her nose at every possible solution except the one his or her heart is set on.

Wow, this is pure gold. I would say that it should be reproduced and taught in school so that people could learn to protect themselves, but budding YesBut players might use it to hone their game.

Definitely second this!  This dialogue should be used for defensive purposes only.

Rescuer is doing a bunch of unpaid labor there, which I object to. The answer is, and always is, "No." Might say it a million times, but "No." Puts the problem back where it belongs: with Player.

That is the only successful response. It seems to become difficult to respond that way when Rescuer has some kind of perceived or actual duty to Player.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20678 on: July 26, 2018, 02:53:49 PM »

Part 2 -
Me: But still, after your rent there's $800 left, where does that go?
CW1: Well, taking care of the cats. And I spend a lot on food too.
Me: Like, how much? Just trying to help you here as it sounds like you're stressed about money..
CW1: Like $50/week?
Me: That's double my spend..
CW1: But I eat vegetarian! It's more expensive
Me: So do I..


Oooh I know someone like that co-worker :( She eats with her boyfriend at Happy Italy 3-4 times a week because that's "cheaper than cooking, because we're vegetarians and that's expensive" . 7,50 + a drink is cheap for a restaurant, but seriously, for €20 you can make veggie pasta for the entire street if you want. But of course then you'd have to cook and all.

Freedomin5

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20679 on: July 26, 2018, 09:15:09 PM »
Caught up with a few ex-coworkers whom I haven’t seen for five years this past week. One of them changed jobs for a 30% raise. Their gross income is now $100k per year. Good, right? Well, they are also:

- Sending their kid to private school to the tune of $15-18k per year
- living in a $500k home with accompanying mortgage
- eating organic everything
- driving a pretty new SUV

They also want to have another kid and were talking about needing to upgrade to a larger home. Their complaint was that they could not afford a larger home in their desired area. So while they are looking for said potentially non-existent home in their price range, they are currently actively trying to have a kid.

I honestly don’t know how they are able to cover their expenses each month.


Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20680 on: July 26, 2018, 10:49:08 PM »
Today outside the supermarket with my two kids we got bailed up by a nice young woman selling for a company called Eat Fresh, or something. Apparently, they send you a box with a week's worth of food chopped up and ready to go in the pan and a sheet with a recipe on it. In this way you get to pay more for fresh food and recipes than you would normally, but unlike paying more at a restaurant you still have to cook and do the dishes afterwards.

People do apparently sign up for it.

barbaz

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20681 on: July 27, 2018, 01:13:41 AM »
That is the only successful response. It seems to become difficult to respond that way when Rescuer has some kind of perceived or actual duty to Player.
I suspect Player is a certain lost cause you talked about before?

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20682 on: July 27, 2018, 07:16:24 AM »
Today outside the supermarket with my two kids we got bailed up by a nice young woman selling for a company called Eat Fresh, or something. Apparently, they send you a box with a week's worth of food chopped up and ready to go in the pan and a sheet with a recipe on it. In this way you get to pay more for fresh food and recipes than you would normally, but unlike paying more at a restaurant you still have to cook and do the dishes afterwards.

People do apparently sign up for it.
We have several such suppliers over here. They are targeting people who don't want to cut up the veggies or feel that cooking by itself is a hassle. Basically this is the same reason people buy pre-diced veggies in the supermarket but with the added bonus that they don't have to shop for it themselves.
The fact that they have zero control on quality or freshness is, in my opinion, a bit disturbing.

In the meantime, it's 38 degrees C over here (that's extreme.for over here), so I'm not cooking either. Luckily we have cold salad with garden vegetables! The tomatoes are lovely and much more tasty than the shop bought ones :D

I have bought a mobile airco though to keep the bedrooms from overheating (second hand, only one month old but 70€ under the shop price). It's set to maintain the current indoor temp and not lower it (which is around 27C now). It's doing a pretty decent job too. Power usage is mostly compensated by the solar panels.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20683 on: July 27, 2018, 08:13:33 AM »
Had a weird Anti-Mustachian/Lazy-ass person encounter at work yesterday.  Was doing a small construction project in the parking lot of a busy little shopping centre.  I noticed that the area I coned-off (2 parking spaces, now full of tools and supplies) kept collecting empty shopping carts when I wasn't looking, which I would then have to put away because they were in my way.  8 or 10 moved carts later I had the pleasure of watching it in action.  A lady parked next to the area I was working (in an old Dodge Durango, figures) and walked into the liquor store, 10 min later she came out with a shopping cart of booze and loaded it into the back of the Durango and left the cart in my area and proceeded to go into the grocery store, of course 10 min later she comes out with ANOTHER cart, loads her stuff into the Durango Dump Truck and leaves her second cart next to her other one right in my way.  Thanks lady.  So I went up to her and said "Hi, do you mind putting the carts back, because otherwise I have to do it and I've already had to move like 8 or 10 carts out of my way today". She didn't say anything but moved the liquor store cart all of like 30' back to where it belongs and then proceeded to take a 10 min smoke break.  She then got in the Dump Truck and drove off without putting away the second cart when I was off in another area.  I hate people. 

Jouer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20684 on: July 27, 2018, 08:22:21 AM »
Had a weird Anti-Mustachian/Lazy-ass person encounter at work yesterday.  Was doing a small construction project in the parking lot of a busy little shopping centre.  I noticed that the area I coned-off (2 parking spaces, now full of tools and supplies) kept collecting empty shopping carts when I wasn't looking, which I would then have to put away because they were in my way.  8 or 10 moved carts later I had the pleasure of watching it in action.  A lady parked next to the area I was working (in an old Dodge Durango, figures) and walked into the liquor store, 10 min later she came out with a shopping cart of booze and loaded it into the back of the Durango and left the cart in my area and proceeded to go into the grocery store, of course 10 min later she comes out with ANOTHER cart, loads her stuff into the Durango Dump Truck and leaves her second cart next to her other one right in my way.  Thanks lady.  So I went up to her and said "Hi, do you mind putting the carts back, because otherwise I have to do it and I've already had to move like 8 or 10 carts out of my way today". She didn't say anything but moved the liquor store cart all of like 30' back to where it belongs and then proceeded to take a 10 min smoke break.  She then got in the Dump Truck and drove off without putting away the second cart when I was off in another area.  I hate people.

People not putting their carts away kills me. More than once I've given someone shit for leaving their cart either free in the parking lot or next to the cart storage area inside (like, in the lobby but not slid into the back of the next cart). Seriously, how much energy does it take to neatly put your cart back in the bullpen?

Slow&Steady

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20685 on: July 27, 2018, 09:25:15 AM »
There is a gentleman that is in the office next to me and rumor has spread that he will be leaving in December, and not to a new job.  He looks to me to be in his 50s, maybe early 50s.  I of course think this is an awesome sign of FIRE but am not sure because he is a very private guy. 

Most of my other coworkers are completely baffled by this.  I have heard that some of them even made fun of him when he started working here because he brings his lunch everyday and uses washable dishes to eat his lunch. 

I am dying to ask him if he is retiring early and give him a huge congrats but he is so private that I am pretty sure that would be too much for him.   
What've you got to lose?  I'd *love* to hear if he's secretly built up a stache.

His manager confirmed that he was retiring today during lunch, the speculation is that he is 57 (I think he looks closer to 50).  I believe his manager is older than him, managers statement was "Yes ___ is retiring at the end of the year, some people save money better than others".

Here is your script:

Slow&Steady: "Hello Co-worker X, congratulations on your retirement.  BTW, what is your mustache code-name?"
Co-Worker X: Either
A.) Puzzled look, scurries away without response.
or
B.) "I'm so glad you asked, my MMM forum handle is SuperSecretStealthMustachedNinja." And you have a new friend for life!

Apparently I am allowed to know this now, co-worker is retiring at 55!  I told him "Good job, I have heard a lot of people say you are lucky.  I know it isn't luck it was work, congrats!"

Pretty sure he is not on MMM, he is planning to use 72t but did not know that he is allowed to pull his Roth contributions (not earnings) without penalty.

CptCool

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20686 on: July 27, 2018, 12:56:16 PM »
Had a weird Anti-Mustachian/Lazy-ass person encounter at work yesterday.  Was doing a small construction project in the parking lot of a busy little shopping centre.  I noticed that the area I coned-off (2 parking spaces, now full of tools and supplies) kept collecting empty shopping carts when I wasn't looking, which I would then have to put away because they were in my way.  8 or 10 moved carts later I had the pleasure of watching it in action.  A lady parked next to the area I was working (in an old Dodge Durango, figures) and walked into the liquor store, 10 min later she came out with a shopping cart of booze and loaded it into the back of the Durango and left the cart in my area and proceeded to go into the grocery store, of course 10 min later she comes out with ANOTHER cart, loads her stuff into the Durango Dump Truck and leaves her second cart next to her other one right in my way.  Thanks lady.  So I went up to her and said "Hi, do you mind putting the carts back, because otherwise I have to do it and I've already had to move like 8 or 10 carts out of my way today". She didn't say anything but moved the liquor store cart all of like 30' back to where it belongs and then proceeded to take a 10 min smoke break.  She then got in the Dump Truck and drove off without putting away the second cart when I was off in another area.  I hate people.

Next time keep some zip ties handy and tie it to their door handle

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20687 on: July 27, 2018, 01:51:16 PM »
Had a weird Anti-Mustachian/Lazy-ass person encounter at work yesterday.  Was doing a small construction project in the parking lot of a busy little shopping centre.  I noticed that the area I coned-off (2 parking spaces, now full of tools and supplies) kept collecting empty shopping carts when I wasn't looking, which I would then have to put away because they were in my way.  8 or 10 moved carts later I had the pleasure of watching it in action.  A lady parked next to the area I was working (in an old Dodge Durango, figures) and walked into the liquor store, 10 min later she came out with a shopping cart of booze and loaded it into the back of the Durango and left the cart in my area and proceeded to go into the grocery store, of course 10 min later she comes out with ANOTHER cart, loads her stuff into the Durango Dump Truck and leaves her second cart next to her other one right in my way.  Thanks lady.  So I went up to her and said "Hi, do you mind putting the carts back, because otherwise I have to do it and I've already had to move like 8 or 10 carts out of my way today". She didn't say anything but moved the liquor store cart all of like 30' back to where it belongs and then proceeded to take a 10 min smoke break.  She then got in the Dump Truck and drove off without putting away the second cart when I was off in another area.  I hate people.

People not putting their carts away kills me. More than once I've given someone shit for leaving their cart either free in the parking lot or next to the cart storage area inside (like, in the lobby but not slid into the back of the next cart). Seriously, how much energy does it take to neatly put your cart back in the bullpen?

Totally a pet peeve.  I only saw it happen once and I definitely gave some some shit but it was ineffective.  Lady played dumb... like oh do you want the cart?  No, just don't leave it in a friggin parking space.  I think they should bring back the cart deposits.

FIRE@50

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20688 on: July 27, 2018, 01:55:18 PM »
Shop at Aldi

10dollarsatatime

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20689 on: July 27, 2018, 03:29:14 PM »
Background:  Employee from another department is retiring.  He's worked here FOREVER.

Conversation had during my department's staff meeting:

Boss: Guy is retiring.  His reception is Wednesday.  ... I didn't think he was old enough to retire.
CW:  He's not 65.  I've known him forever.
Boss:  You can't retire before 65.
Me:  That's not necessarily true, boss.
Boss:  I guess you can start collecting your pension at 62.
CW:  I think he's only 58.
Boss:  I wonder why he's retiring?
CW:  He's got 30 years.
Boss:  But his pension doesn't kick in for at least 4 more years.
Me:  He probably saved $$ in his 457, so he can bridge the gap.  That's basically why that account exists.
Boss: ...

Boss turns 65 in a couple of years.  I'm not convinced he'll retire then.  He has some silly ideas when it comes to money.

Lyngi

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20690 on: July 27, 2018, 10:05:27 PM »
       Had a conversation with a coworker(1) today.  Back during the housing crisis CW1 was in the process of buying a big, beautiful house.  We got to see pictures of it and I was so envious, it was amazing and perfect.   We have the same position and so made the same amount of money.  I just couldn't figure out what was wrong with me.  Why couldn't I find such a great house to buy.   Fast forward 10 or so years and I just found out that coworker has lost that big house and a lot more. The large income came with a large lifestyle creep that was unsustainable. 
      Later on the coworkers in my group were talking about CW1's situation and were very surprised.  CW1 was working a lot and was making a lot of money.  I told them how I had coveted the house and how I thought I was doing something wrong. 

Coworker G said, "NO, you were doing something right! And your house is paid off"
Coworker M jokingly said, "You must be a millionaire." 
Me, "Why yes. Yes I am"

CW1's story is tragic.  You just don't know what is going on with the Joneses and life is not a competition.



LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20691 on: July 28, 2018, 12:30:06 AM »
Talking about housing bubble, this one looks like it is over. Just read yesterday that all numbers (price increase, amount of houses bought etc). are suddenly at a long time low.
Together with the other little things it may be the first real sign of the next crash.

Exited?

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20692 on: July 28, 2018, 06:21:44 AM »
Talking about housing bubble, this one looks like it is over. Just read yesterday that all numbers (price increase, amount of houses bought etc). are suddenly at a long time low.
Together with the other little things it may be the first real sign of the next crash.

Exited?

Is that nationally or in a particular market?

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20693 on: July 28, 2018, 10:13:47 AM »
Talking about housing bubble, this one looks like it is over. Just read yesterday that all numbers (price increase, amount of houses bought etc). are suddenly at a long time low.
Together with the other little things it may be the first real sign of the next crash.

Exited?

Is that nationally or in a particular market?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-26/american-housing-market-is-showing-signs-of-running-out-of-steam

tralfamadorian

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20694 on: July 28, 2018, 11:23:04 AM »
Talking about housing bubble, this one looks like it is over. Just read yesterday that all numbers (price increase, amount of houses bought etc). are suddenly at a long time low.
Together with the other little things it may be the first real sign of the next crash.

Exited?

Is that nationally or in a particular market?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-26/american-housing-market-is-showing-signs-of-running-out-of-steam

I'm on the online newsletter lists for a bunch of realtors in my farm markets. Most of full of shit but a couple have proven to be unicorns and are honest with what they believe to be happening in their markets. Both have called what they believe to be the start of the slowdown though the statistics do not bear that out yet. One's reasoning was that he was seeing a bunch of buyer's agent bonuses popping up- mostly $5k with a couple $10k- and a free cruise for a completed purchase for a buyer. Both the $10k agent bonus and the silly buyer's carrots, he had not seen since 2007.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20695 on: July 28, 2018, 03:54:51 PM »
The market slowdown is happening in Australia, too. Interest rates are finally creeping back up, but also there's been a banking royal commission which has exposed a lot of dodgy behaviour from the banks, so that many of them are tightening things up in anticipation of more regulatory oversight in the future.

I don't see the market crashing here, like prices halving in a year or two or something. So long as an economy is growing generally, there is spare cash floating around to invest. In a manufacturing economy this cash can go to investing in manufacturing businesses, but because of the free market workers in Australia have to compete with unpaid child labour in the Congo (coltan mining) or widget makers on $5 a day locked in their dormitories at night in China, so mining is hugely automated and manufacturing fizzling out here. We have a service economy, and that does need investment, but since a factory plant costs more to set up than a restaurant or gym or office, there's just not the same need for capital investment in a service economy as there is in a manufacturing one. So where does the spare cash go? Real estate.

Obviously rising interest rates will mean less spare cash floating around, both since fewer people will borrow and more will be inclined to just save their cash. But ultimately Australia's population is growing, so unless more of us do house-sharing the demand for more housing will remain, and there's not really anywhere else for people to put spare cash except savings accounts. Unless of course they send their money overseas...

So I see prices levelling out and dropping a bit, but not crashing. The only prospect of a crash is if there's a general recession. But in that case we have other problems regardless of house prices.

Raymond Reddington

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20696 on: July 28, 2018, 04:41:22 PM »
I don't see a crash here either. I see stagnation in overprice markets, and lenders' (and regulators') reactions to that stagnation will determine where we go from here. If the market is allowed to run wild trying to get real estate activity back to "normal" levels, then the risky behavior that precedes a crash will undoubtedly return within 5 years of the start of that behavior. If regulators and lenders generally leave things alone, we will see negative growth in saturated markets, and a slightly higher than offsetting growth in underappreciated markets that will maintain slow positive growth in median prices overall, which may actually lag inflation enough to be significant enough to encourage more homeownership over time. Of course, what's going to be interesting is when the big bomb hits, which is the upcoming deaths of millions of baby boomers creating a glut of inherited homes/supply which will likely loosen things up in the next 10-30 years...especially if many outlive their retirement savings as predicted and have to take reverse mortgages.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20697 on: July 28, 2018, 06:08:20 PM »
Immigration is the other aspect, Raymond. If both the US and Australia continue to have lots of migration, particularly skilled migration, that helps keep demand for (purchased) housing high despite the boomers dropping off.

More significant would be any change in expectations. One of the reasons for the change in price which people don't talk about much is size of house and household. In 1950 the average new house in Australia was 100m2 with 3.6 people, now it's 231m2 with 2.6 people. So we've gone from 28 to 89m2 per person. So while house prices relative to income have doubled, house sizes and area per person have more than doubled.

If people changed to wanting smaller places then prices could drop somewhat; but again, they wouldn't crash, since such cultural changes tend to be slow and owners would raise prices to compensate, so for example here in Australia the house on the "quarter-acre block" (usually in fact 600-800m2) is often subdivided into 3 dwellings, but these 3 dwellings are each 2/3 the price of the old one, not 1/3.

bklyncyclist

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20698 on: July 28, 2018, 08:00:24 PM »
Had dinner with a family friend.

I have never heard this particular reason for not contributing a single $ into any retirement accounts. Or to think of it, any accounts.
The plan is to end up penniless... by design... to qualify for Medicaid.
He is 55 with 0 retirement savings and no net worth to speak of.

I was so shocked, I didn't have a response.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 08:40:57 PM by bklyncyclist »

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20699 on: July 28, 2018, 08:14:52 PM »
Had dinner with a family friend.

I have never heard this particular reason for not contributing a single $ into any retirement accounts. Or to think of it, any accounts.
The plan is to end up penniless... by design... to qualify for Medicare.
He is 55 with 0 retirement savings and no net worth to speak of.

I was so shocked, I didn't have a response.

Are you sure he said Medicare? Not Medicaid? Because if he said Medicare, and meant Medicare, then he's got much bigger issues. Like lack of general intelligence.