Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8442843 times)

aperture

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18500 on: September 05, 2017, 10:57:44 AM »
CW insisted on telling me his "strategy" at the casino the other day. It hurt.

CW: "I'll wait till we win about a hundred dollars, then go take that out to the car so my wife can't spend it all back at the casino"
Me: "Yea but how much do you typically spend to make the first hundred?"
CW: "I dunno, but we aren't using the high roller slot machines, some people will go crazy on those things. They play five dollars at a time! We use the dollar machines."
CW: "I go to the casino to make money, not spend it!"

I didn't have anything constructive to say, hearing something that crazy blew my mind. I was speechless and changed the topic.

My parents went to Vegas two to three times per year for decades and always came back talking about the one or two big wins that they had during the trip. In each of these instances I tried to find out how much they spent to get the big win, and never could elicit an answer that made mathematical sense.  My father was otherwise logical and clear minded, but there was some sort of euphoric recall that took over when slot machines were involved.  I think at the end of the day, they spent $s at the casino being entertained in ways they enjoyed and the total cost was in their budget, so no harm no foul. 

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18501 on: September 05, 2017, 11:16:22 AM »
I've mentioned before that everyone at work is pretty frugal.  The boss' '99 Corolla got totalled a few months back.  He replaced it...with a 2003 Honda Accord with over 200k miles on it.  And despite the peeling clear coat, this one has all the bells and whistles--leather seats, moon roof, heated seats, V6 engine, power everything!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18502 on: September 05, 2017, 11:23:56 AM »
CW insisted on telling me his "strategy" at the casino the other day. It hurt.

CW: "I'll wait till we win about a hundred dollars, then go take that out to the car so my wife can't spend it all back at the casino"
Me: "Yea but how much do you typically spend to make the first hundred?"
CW: "I dunno, but we aren't using the high roller slot machines, some people will go crazy on those things. They play five dollars at a time! We use the dollar machines."
CW: "I go to the casino to make money, not spend it!"

I didn't have anything constructive to say, hearing something that crazy blew my mind. I was speechless and changed the topic.

My parents went to Vegas two to three times per year for decades and always came back talking about the one or two big wins that they had during the trip. In each of these instances I tried to find out how much they spent to get the big win, and never could elicit an answer that made mathematical sense.  My father was otherwise logical and clear minded, but there was some sort of euphoric recall that took over when slot machines were involved.  I think at the end of the day, they spent $s at the casino being entertained in ways they enjoyed and the total cost was in their budget, so no harm no foul.

I think I've told this before on this board, but I'm not sure.

My Mother is always on me about Vegas as a "cheap" vacation.  She tells me about how my Dad and his friends do a few guys trips a year. They go out there and their hotel is comped, they usually get a few dinners, a round of golf or two, and maybe even a show comped. While they play, all their drinks are free.

Um, Mom. Money is being spent somewhere. Do you really think I'm going to gamble the kind of money it takes to get all those "freebies"?

My Dad absolutely has the kind of money to spend to get so much "free". But Vegas isn't a cheap vacation, no matter how many comps they throw at you.

(She also likes to insist I take a cheap southwest flight out there, despite being told again and again we don't have southwest.)

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18503 on: September 05, 2017, 02:18:11 PM »
Some new employees have been hired. They are youngish.  I finally have something to contribute! 
CW1:  Costs for basic cruises are so low, you'd be an idiot NOT to go on one.
CW2:  Right, you can't even afford to stay home and eat and drink like that for that low price.
CW1:  Well, drinking is extra, but I saved so much on the Room and Meals that I could afford most of the extras. 


marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18504 on: September 05, 2017, 02:36:12 PM »
Some new employees have been hired. They are youngish.  I finally have something to contribute! 
CW1:  Costs for basic cruises are so low, you'd be an idiot NOT to go on one.
CW2:  Right, you can't even afford to stay home and eat and drink like that for that low price.
CW1:  Well, drinking is extra, but I saved so much on the Room and Meals that I could afford most of the extras.

I guess some people are such spendthrifts that an all-inclusive trip is cheaper than staying at home and being tempted to buy large useless things to store in your house. At least on a cruise you're stuck with buying smaller things (if anything) because you can't bring it back?

martyconlonontherun

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18505 on: September 05, 2017, 02:54:20 PM »
Yesterday a kind coworker told me "if you pay yourself first and save one hour of each day's paycheck, by the time you're my age [54], you could have $500k!"

I smiled because she had really good advice and knew what she was talking about. Of course I didn't tell her by the time I'm her age I'll have three times that amount (hopefully) and be long retired!
I think this is straight out of automatic millionaire (or the author stole it from somewhere), but that is basically the second chapter. I was bored in Barnes and Noble so read it yesterday.

I feel her though. I'm having regret not seriously investing until 28/29. i couldn't even imagine being 54 and being told 30 years ago if I just would've paid myself first a small percentage of my income I could retire on the spot but now its too late has to eat at the sole. She's probably desperately telling any young kid that she knows to not make her mistake.

kayvent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18506 on: September 05, 2017, 07:13:23 PM »
Yesterday a kind coworker told me "if you pay yourself first and save one hour of each day's paycheck, by the time you're my age [54], you could have $500k!"

I smiled because she had really good advice and knew what she was talking about. Of course I didn't tell her by the time I'm her age I'll have three times that amount (hopefully) and be long retired!
I think this is straight out of automatic millionaire (or the author stole it from somewhere), but that is basically the second chapter. I was bored in Barnes and Noble so read it yesterday.

I feel her though. I'm having regret not seriously investing until 28/29. i couldn't even imagine being 54 and being told 30 years ago if I just would've paid myself first a small percentage of my income I could retire on the spot but now its too late has to eat at the sole. She's probably desperately telling any young kid that she knows to not make her mistake.

Three years ago I started working at [large Fortune 500 company]. Except for one other person, everyone in my office was 10-18 years my senior. I saw this as an excellent opportunity to gain career wisdom and insight. One day I asked one of my co-workers what was his biggest mistake when he was green in the field like me. Like a true sensei, he gave an answer I never would have expected. He advice was to save more money. He briefly alluded to the math behind saving early, often, and superfluously.

It was kinda eye-opening that someone a dozen years into their career would give a junior that advice.

Gone_Hiking

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18507 on: September 05, 2017, 08:57:28 PM »

Three years ago I started working at [large Fortune 500 company]. Except for one other person, everyone in my office was 10-18 years my senior. I saw this as an excellent opportunity to gain career wisdom and insight. One day I asked one of my co-workers what was his biggest mistake when he was green in the field like me. Like a true sensei, he gave an answer I never would have expected. He advice was to save more money. He briefly alluded to the math behind saving early, often, and superfluously.

It was kinda eye-opening that someone a dozen years into their career would give a junior that advice.

You seem to have good co-workers, giving you advice not just about work, but about life, too.  I've recently acquired a new mentee - a fresh college graduate.    And today, when she asked me how to request vacation, I was able to walk her through the HR software and its quirks.  I then remembered to emphasize taking all of vacation days this year since our employer does not allow year-to-year rollovers and some inexperience people may be caught unaware when the last day or two they were saving disappear in January.    I hope to be as wise to my charge as your colleague was to you.

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18508 on: September 06, 2017, 08:04:51 AM »
CW insisted on telling me his "strategy" at the casino the other day. It hurt.

CW: "I'll wait till we win about a hundred dollars, then go take that out to the car so my wife can't spend it all back at the casino"
Me: "Yea but how much do you typically spend to make the first hundred?"
CW: "I dunno, but we aren't using the high roller slot machines, some people will go crazy on those things. They play five dollars at a time! We use the dollar machines."
CW: "I go to the casino to make money, not spend it!"

I didn't have anything constructive to say, hearing something that crazy blew my mind. I was speechless and changed the topic.

My parents went to Vegas two to three times per year for decades and always came back talking about the one or two big wins that they had during the trip. In each of these instances I tried to find out how much they spent to get the big win, and never could elicit an answer that made mathematical sense.  My father was otherwise logical and clear minded, but there was some sort of euphoric recall that took over when slot machines were involved.  I think at the end of the day, they spent $s at the casino being entertained in ways they enjoyed and the total cost was in their budget, so no harm no foul.

Classic illustration of the principle of intermittent reward. Nobody enjoys counting up all the small losses, but that win! They might even put you on a billboard! Nobody asks how many decades that middle-aged cocktail waitress in Vegas spent losing hundreds a month before she won her tens of thousands, they just know how happy she looks up there! Be her!

I hit the casinos every week or two when living in Biloxi, but I'd walk in with $20 in cash, play the cheapest video blackjack or poker machine I could find, play slowly, and milk that for "free" drinks (+$1 tip) until I ran out. It was cheaper than a typical bar tab and more entertaining, so I called it a win. Careful players might hack the system even better for real benefits, but that's all ever I cared to do.

*******************************************************************
Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18509 on: September 06, 2017, 08:10:47 AM »
Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

That's an awesome reply.

Raenia

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18510 on: September 06, 2017, 09:17:56 AM »
Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

That's an awesome reply.

Love it!  I did used to participate in a lotto pool at one of my old jobs, but only because 3/4 of the staff was in on it (small office) and if they managed by some chance to win, I didn't want to be the one person coming in to work the next week.  That place sucked so bad, even with splitting the pot 8 ways or whatever, it would have been worth quitting without being fully FI.

BiochemicalDJ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18511 on: September 06, 2017, 09:27:27 AM »

Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

I was running some actuarial tables yesterday for fun using StatsCan's databases and their export functions-

Found out I have roughly a 1723:1 chance of dying sometime in any given year randomly for any reason (fudgy math, but close enough.)
By the time I'm 85, those odds drop to 8:1.
I have a 645,000:1 chance of dying from terrorism while overseas if travelling.
We have ~ a 15,000,000:1 chance of winning the lottery in Canada.

I told my co-workers, but they would rather believe they're the one special snowflake...

« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 09:29:56 AM by BiochemicalDJ »

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18512 on: September 06, 2017, 09:33:24 AM »

Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

I was running some actuarial tables yesterday for fun using StatsCan's databases and their export functions-

Found out I have roughly a 1723:1 chance of dying sometime in any given year randomly for any reason (fudgy math, but close enough.)
By the time I'm 85, those odds drop to 8:1.
I have a 645,000:1 chance of dying from terrorism while overseas if travelling.
We have ~ a 15,000,000:1 chance of winning the lottery in Canada.

I told my co-workers, but they would rather believe they're the one special snowflake...

1723:1 seems...high. How old are you?

Now I'm paranoid for no reason.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18513 on: September 06, 2017, 10:17:46 AM »

Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

I was running some actuarial tables yesterday for fun using StatsCan's databases and their export functions-

Found out I have roughly a 1723:1 chance of dying sometime in any given year randomly for any reason (fudgy math, but close enough.)
By the time I'm 85, those odds drop to 8:1.
I have a 645,000:1 chance of dying from terrorism while overseas if travelling.
We have ~ a 15,000,000:1 chance of winning the lottery in Canada.

I told my co-workers, but they would rather believe they're the one special snowflake...

1723:1 seems...high. How old are you?

Now I'm paranoid for no reason.

No, it sounds about right--note that BiochemicalDJ said "Any given year", and it is for any reason. It is fuzzy math, but think about it as

(chances of dying this year)+(chances of dying next year)*X+(chances of dying next year)*Y+.....+(chances of dying in year n)*Z

Where X, Y,...,Z are some discounting factors based on the amount of time to reach year n, as well as a bunch of other factors (i.e. if you've lived to 85, you can't die when you're 75; similarly you can't die at 85 if you died at 75). Also note that it isn't your chances of dying, which is obviously 1:1.

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18514 on: September 06, 2017, 10:23:06 AM »
No, it sounds about right--note that BiochemicalDJ said "Any given year", and it is for any reason. It is fuzzy math, but think about it as

(chances of dying this year)+(chances of dying next year)*X+(chances of dying next year)*Y+.....+(chances of dying in year n)*Z

Where X, Y,...,Z are some discounting factors based on the amount of time to reach year n, as well as a bunch of other factors (i.e. if you've lived to 85, you can't die when you're 75; similarly you can't die at 85 if you died at 75). Also note that it isn't your chances of dying, which is obviously 1:1.

By this logic, the chance for dying at any given year should be 1 (not 1:1, which is a 50% chance), since I will definitly die in any year.

I think he says, 1723:1 is the chance of dying within the next 365 days (which seems unlikely high, but who knows).

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18515 on: September 06, 2017, 10:27:12 AM »

Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

I was running some actuarial tables yesterday for fun using StatsCan's databases and their export functions-

Found out I have roughly a 1723:1 chance of dying sometime in any given year randomly for any reason (fudgy math, but close enough.)
By the time I'm 85, those odds drop to 8:1.
I have a 645,000:1 chance of dying from terrorism while overseas if travelling.
We have ~ a 15,000,000:1 chance of winning the lottery in Canada.

I told my co-workers, but they would rather believe they're the one special snowflake...

1723:1 seems...high. How old are you?

Now I'm paranoid for no reason.

It doesn't seem that high.  North carolina has 13.7 traffic deaths per 100,000 population.  That's 7,300:1 just for traffic deaths.  The murder rate in NC is 5.2 per 100,000.  That's 5,291:1 that you get murdered by a car or person.  You could also get cancer, or some other disease or medical complication. 

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18516 on: September 06, 2017, 10:32:44 AM »
No, it sounds about right--note that BiochemicalDJ said "Any given year", and it is for any reason. It is fuzzy math, but think about it as

(chances of dying this year)+(chances of dying next year)*X+(chances of dying next year)*Y+.....+(chances of dying in year n)*Z

Where X, Y,...,Z are some discounting factors based on the amount of time to reach year n, as well as a bunch of other factors (i.e. if you've lived to 85, you can't die when you're 75; similarly you can't die at 85 if you died at 75). Also note that it isn't your chances of dying, which is obviously 1:1.

By this logic, the chance for dying at any given year should be 1 (not 1:1, which is a 50% chance), since I will definitly die in any year.

I think he says, 1723:1 is the chance of dying within the next 365 days (which seems unlikely high, but who knows).

No, not quite. You're forgetting my variable, which is a discounting factor. At age 27, the chances that I die at age 27-70 are all almost nothing--I think that we can all agree on that. But at age 27, the chance that I die at age 85... is still almost nothing. There is a much better chance that I die at any age other than 85 than my dying at age 85.

It isn't saying, what are the chances that I die. It is saying, what are the chances that I die in any given year?

Of course, I could be completely wrong with his intent.

Inaya

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18517 on: September 06, 2017, 11:07:34 AM »
These statistics are very interesting to me, since I have pretty bad anxiety. Some days, the only way I get to work is by reminding myself that the odds of me getting mugged, hit by a car, caught in a terrorist attack, etc., are exceedingly low.

BiochemicalDJ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18518 on: September 06, 2017, 01:33:14 PM »
These statistics are very interesting to me, since I have pretty bad anxiety. Some days, the only way I get to work is by reminding myself that the odds of me getting mugged, hit by a car, caught in a terrorist attack, etc., are exceedingly low.

Honestly, I've done a course in Stats, read a few books on 'pop statistics', and done the introductory first few chapters of several texts on it when I want to try and refresh my memory on it, and I still can't do this stuff quickly on the fly- Especially when you start getting into permutations vs. combinations (If you don't know, don't worry about it.)

To get these numbers, I just filtered Statscan down to deaths per hundred thousand, all cause, then filtered again by my age and all age windows up to 90, had to re-adjust to get a bit less data (less detail in the possible causes), and then did the conversion for 'Probability to odds'.

There are a ton of assumptions here, of course. And it doesn't account for the massive skews that are possibly in the data- for example, all homicide in my country is likely localized to a few given population centers- and in there, even probably a few neighbourhoods. So they're rolled into my stats as well- even though I don't live anywhere near there, for example.

So this really is sort of a 'worst case scenario'- I'm also not really average as far as behaviours go (drive less than my peers, exercise, eat mostly slow-carb/cyclical keto, bike to work every day), so I can imagine that there's some protection involved there.

Now the depressing thing is looking at the actuarial tables for the parents and older loved ones in your life and realizing that the number of years they're likely to have left is much, much smaller than you'd imagine. Especially when you're seeing them like 4x per year at holidays for 1-2 days at a time, so the actual times you'll see them on this planet is likely under 100 more visits.

(8) And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon... (8)

BiochemicalDJ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18519 on: September 06, 2017, 01:47:14 PM »
1723:1 seems...high. How old are you?

Now I'm paranoid for no reason.

I'm an aging Millenial. I remember Hercules, Xena, and Sinbad, but was already done with school when 'On Fleek' started.

Rolling a 1723-sided die once a year isn't that bad a deal. And the things that are likely to kill me at this age hopefully won't hurt (should be too fast/catastrophic), so there's some comfort in that. And yeah, once every 365 days is how  I'm looking at it, but remember- this is pretty fudgy math. It uses Canada-wide data for a pretty universal thing, but there are likely skewing outliers and other oddities it doesn't account for.

It's enough to know that I'm almost 9000 times more likely to die this year than I am to win the lottery, should I buy a ticket. Even if it was 900 times more likely, or 500 times, or 10 times more likely- it still points out the inherent silliness of the lottery. Or at least, that was my intent.

I used to have a friend who said that morally speaking, he wasn't at all uncomfortable with the idea of being hunted for food, as long as he didn't suffer pain or see it coming- So I've tried to apply that philosophy to help get over my day-to-day fear of death. After all, for all the billions of years I *didn't* exist on this planet, it's not like there was any part of me floating around going 'Come ON, why can't I just get BORN already?' so why should I get pissed off with the idea of not being on the planet when my time's up?

Aaaaand to grab the reins and rip this back to topic...

I have a co-worker who responded to my talking about how it was awesome that used snowblowers were down to like $300 in my area by telling me how he would only consider buying a brand new snowblower for ~$1800 that has heated handles and and electric chute control because you just 'gotta have new.'
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 01:50:49 PM by BiochemicalDJ »

south of 61

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18520 on: September 06, 2017, 01:57:01 PM »
long time reader of this thread, finally have a contribution!

Co-worker (approx 60 years old) was back today from a vacation in the big city where she dropped thousands at costco and got, among other things, a 65-inch TV. Then told me she "would be working for a few more years to pay off the credit card"

I guess it could have been worse - she didn't try to tell me that she "deserved it"

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18521 on: September 06, 2017, 02:00:45 PM »
long time reader of this thread, finally have a contribution!

Co-worker (approx 60 years old) was back today from a vacation in the big city where she dropped thousands at costco and got, among other things, a 65-inch TV. Then told me she "would be working for a few more years to pay off the credit card"

I guess it could have been worse - she didn't try to tell me that she "deserved it"

I think she does deserve it. Every cent of that debt and every extra hour of working is exactly what she deserves. At least she bought it at costco?

idahofire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18522 on: September 06, 2017, 09:29:16 PM »
I've mentioned before that everyone at work is pretty frugal.  The boss' '99 Corolla got totalled a few months back.  He replaced it...with a 2003 Honda Accord with over 200k miles on it.  And despite the peeling clear coat, this one has all the bells and whistles--leather seats, moon roof, heated seats, V6 engine, power everything!

Legendary! haha

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18523 on: September 07, 2017, 01:58:34 AM »
No, not quite. You're forgetting my variable, which is a discounting factor. At age 27, the chances that I die at age 27-70 are all almost nothing--I think that we can all agree on that.
No, the chance to die between the age of 27 and 70 is ~20%. That's way more than almost nothing in my mind.

Quote
But at age 27, the chance that I die at age 85... is still almost nothing. There is a much better chance that I die at any age other than 85 than my dying at age 85.
True, but what kind of argument is "why do you play lotto? the chance that you die at the exact age of 83 is 1:8483!"? I don't think this was his intent.

But to bring some facts to the table, here is the mortality table for Germany:
https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFakten/GesellschaftStaat/Bevoelkerung/Sterbefaelle/Tabellen/SterbetafelDeutschland.xlsx?__blob=publicationFile


Dabnasty

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18524 on: September 07, 2017, 02:31:37 PM »
I have a smart meter for my apartment so I compared 2 days hourly kWh usage, a work day with the AC off and a weekend day where we left it running continuously (attachment). Outside temps were almost identical, data taken from National Weather Service station within a few miles of home.

After the first month in our apartment I was worried about our electric bill being so high so I asked someone to take a look at the AC unit and make sure it wasn't malfunctioning and running inefficiently. An employee told me it was probably because I was turning the AC off during the day...I tried to explain the physics to him but he became progressively more upset and loud presumably because I was disagreeing with him?

Anyway, I put this together to prove him wrong but in the end thought better of it since there was really nothing to be gained other than him seeing me as a smartass for the rest of the time I live there. But now I have these awesome visual aids for when the issue comes up in casual conversation.

Edit: Dang. I was late to the AC party. The speed at which a thread about coworkers bad spending habits grows is both worrisome and unsurprising.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 02:38:30 PM by Dabnasty »

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18525 on: September 07, 2017, 04:04:21 PM »
I have a smart meter for my apartment so I compared 2 days hourly kWh usage, a work day with the AC off and a weekend day where we left it running continuously (attachment). Outside temps were almost identical, data taken from National Weather Service station within a few miles of home.

After the first month in our apartment I was worried about our electric bill being so high so I asked someone to take a look at the AC unit and make sure it wasn't malfunctioning and running inefficiently. An employee told me it was probably because I was turning the AC off during the day...I tried to explain the physics to him but he became progressively more upset and loud presumably because I was disagreeing with him?

Anyway, I put this together to prove him wrong but in the end thought better of it since there was really nothing to be gained other than him seeing me as a smartass for the rest of the time I live there. But now I have these awesome visual aids for when the issue comes up in casual conversation.

Edit: Dang. I was late to the AC party. The speed at which a thread about coworkers bad spending habits grows is both worrisome and unsurprising.

Cool to see some real data.  Is that total usage for your apartment, or usage of your A/C unit only?

Megma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18526 on: September 07, 2017, 06:03:46 PM »
CW: I'm thinking about buying a tent but I hate camping.

Me and all other coworkers: so...why buy a tent?

boarder42

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18527 on: September 08, 2017, 11:05:00 AM »
I have a smart meter for my apartment so I compared 2 days hourly kWh usage, a work day with the AC off and a weekend day where we left it running continuously (attachment). Outside temps were almost identical, data taken from National Weather Service station within a few miles of home.

After the first month in our apartment I was worried about our electric bill being so high so I asked someone to take a look at the AC unit and make sure it wasn't malfunctioning and running inefficiently. An employee told me it was probably because I was turning the AC off during the day...I tried to explain the physics to him but he became progressively more upset and loud presumably because I was disagreeing with him?

Anyway, I put this together to prove him wrong but in the end thought better of it since there was really nothing to be gained other than him seeing me as a smartass for the rest of the time I live there. But now I have these awesome visual aids for when the issue comes up in casual conversation.

Edit: Dang. I was late to the AC party. The speed at which a thread about coworkers bad spending habits grows is both worrisome and unsurprising.

the bar graph is cool and all but i'm missing data from the spread sheet.  to see what the difference in kWH was between the 2 days.  is it obviously lower on the graph yes but a simple x much used one day y much used the next would be better

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18528 on: September 08, 2017, 12:16:54 PM »
the bar graph is cool and all but i'm missing data from the spread sheet.  to see what the difference in kWH was between the 2 days.  is it obviously lower on the graph yes but a simple x much used one day y much used the next would be better

There are totals above the graphs.  21.8kWh vs 31.92, so 50% higher leaving the A/C on.

PencilThinStash

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18529 on: September 08, 2017, 12:32:35 PM »
long time reader of this thread, finally have a contribution!

Co-worker (approx 60 years old) was back today from a vacation in the big city where she dropped thousands at costco and got, among other things, a 65-inch TV. Then told me she "would be working for a few more years to pay off the credit card"

I guess it could have been worse - she didn't try to tell me that she "deserved it"

I think she does deserve it. Every cent of that debt and every extra hour of working is exactly what she deserves.

Damn, kill shot. That's my type of ruthless, right there.

...filing this away for future use.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18530 on: September 11, 2017, 06:10:49 AM »
Friend-turned-coworker after he helped me get a foot in the door at our current company got debt free (except his mortgage) about a year and a half ago. This was after being over 60k in credit card debt plus student loans and a number of other things. So what does he do? Goes out and buys a $40k used Chevrolet SS. Ok, his 2013 mazdaspeed 3 was a little small for him. Whatever. Then it turns out him and his wife can't get pregnant. She absolutely HAS to have a child that she birthed (adoption is out of the question despite their strong Christian, "love everybody" outlook on things), so 3 rounds of IVF at $15k a pop, all put on credit cards. So now we are up to 85k back in debt after having JUST paid all of it off.

Ok, so he got it out of his system, right? I mean, he has his nice car, she has her baby, enough spending .... right?
Wrong.

He got a new car (not new, 3 years old used, but whatever) so his wife OBVIOUSLY deserves a new car too, right? Because her kia SUV and his FULL SIZED FAMILY SEDAN are just not enough to haul around an infant. CLEARLY the only logical decision is to trade in the Kia that they just paid off for a brand new plug-in hybrid Pacifica. Because third row seating is an absolute necessity for a family of 3 with (let's be honest after all they went through having the first kid) very little chance of growing.

I just want to smash my face on my desk having heard all of this ...

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18531 on: September 11, 2017, 08:12:58 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18532 on: September 11, 2017, 08:29:53 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

This probably came from the myth that your credit score goes up when you carry a balance (pay interest). Untrue, of course, as anyone who pays off their card in full every month can tell you.

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18533 on: September 11, 2017, 08:41:47 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

Credit card companies love me because I charge everything I buy to get my 2% back. They get their 1% (net) from merchants, everybody's happy.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18534 on: September 11, 2017, 08:47:18 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

ducky19

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18535 on: September 11, 2017, 09:06:46 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

Yeah... I don't think they liked you.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18536 on: September 11, 2017, 09:14:19 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

But they literally get a transaction fee plus a percentage of the sale every time you use it which is completely separate from the interest you would pay them, so they still make money off you.  Unless they have a limit on the number of accounts they are allowed to have and needed to clear out some accounts to make room for better accounts (ie people who pay interest) it doesn't even make sense for them to cancel you.

WerKater

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18537 on: September 11, 2017, 09:54:56 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

But they literally get a transaction fee plus a percentage of the sale every time you use it which is completely separate from the interest you would pay them, so they still make money off you.  Unless they have a limit on the number of accounts they are allowed to have and needed to clear out some accounts to make room for better accounts (ie people who pay interest) it doesn't even make sense for them to cancel you.

I seem to remember that I read somewhere (probably here in this forum...) that someone who always pays his credit card bill on time is actually the better customer (on a risk adjusted basis) for the credit card company. Because the company makes steady income from him and there is no risk that he may default on his debt (because, essentially, he has none). Or am I imagining that?

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18538 on: September 11, 2017, 10:12:51 AM »
Yes, the customer I make money off of, that uses my product, and has low risk of bad debt write off, is always the better customer!

Don't forget that high income customers that pay off every month also make me a lot of money through the charges at the retailer point of sale.  They just don't make as much as the customer that pays interest, too.


RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18539 on: September 11, 2017, 10:12:28 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

But they literally get a transaction fee plus a percentage of the sale every time you use it which is completely separate from the interest you would pay them, so they still make money off you.  Unless they have a limit on the number of accounts they are allowed to have and needed to clear out some accounts to make room for better accounts (ie people who pay interest) it doesn't even make sense for them to cancel you.

I seem to remember that I read somewhere (probably here in this forum...) that someone who always pays his credit card bill on time is actually the better customer (on a risk adjusted basis) for the credit card company. Because the company makes steady income from him and there is no risk that he may default on his debt (because, essentially, he has none). Or am I imagining that?

I agree. I can't imagine that the number of people that rack up a large amount of debt and then pay it all off is very large. People will default or give up on paying it off eventually. People who get into trouble and do eventually pay it off are usually the cut-up-the-card people which lowers the income stream for the creditor.

Zoot

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18540 on: September 11, 2017, 11:53:54 AM »
I seem to remember that I read somewhere (probably here in this forum...) that someone who always pays his credit card bill on time is actually the better customer (on a risk adjusted basis) for the credit card company. Because the company makes steady income from him and there is no risk that he may default on his debt (because, essentially, he has none). Or am I imagining that?

I think it depends on what the definition of a "good" customer is.  ;-) 

In the credit card industry, people who pay their balance in full every month are apparently called deadbeats, because they "use the lender's money but pay no interest on it." 

But I also see that customers who do this could be seen through a different lens as an asset rather than a liability, because they represent a low-risk, steady stream of income at the merchant fee rate on the money the cardholder is using as "float."  Not a bad way to make ~2-3% on your money, guaranteed, plus whatever fees you can manage to wrangle out of the cardholders who goof something up.

Edited to add this link:  http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/aba-study-revolvers-transactors-1701.php.  Apparently as of late 2014, "deadbeats" (also called "transactors") represent 29% of credit card users, while "revolvers" (people who don't pay in full every month) represent 41.2%.  The remaining 29.8% are "dormant" (i.e., inactive accounts).
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 11:56:29 AM by Zoot »

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18541 on: September 11, 2017, 12:09:05 PM »
Zoot,  that is very interesting, thanks for posting.   So...  43% of all cc's with a transaction in a month are paid in full at the end of the month...  That is a lot higher than I thought I would see.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18542 on: September 11, 2017, 12:22:04 PM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

But they literally get a transaction fee plus a percentage of the sale every time you use it which is completely separate from the interest you would pay them, so they still make money off you.  Unless they have a limit on the number of accounts they are allowed to have and needed to clear out some accounts to make room for better accounts (ie people who pay interest) it doesn't even make sense for them to cancel you.

I know that. But they canceled my card after 15 years of regular use.  So no idea.  My credit score is superb, and even losing that it didn't change it much.

Zoot

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18543 on: September 11, 2017, 12:32:38 PM »
Zoot,  that is very interesting, thanks for posting.   So...  43% of all cc's with a transaction in a month are paid in full at the end of the month...  That is a lot higher than I thought I would see.

Actually, that backwards:  it's the 29% who are "transactors" who pay in full every month.  The largest group is the ones that carry a balance (the "revolvers"), at 41.2%.  So your instincts were right!  :)


Raenia

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18544 on: September 11, 2017, 01:37:17 PM »
Zoot,  that is very interesting, thanks for posting.   So...  43% of all cc's with a transaction in a month are paid in full at the end of the month...  That is a lot higher than I thought I would see.

Actually, that backwards:  it's the 29% who are "transactors" who pay in full every month.  The largest group is the ones that carry a balance (the "revolvers"), at 41.2%.  So your instincts were right!  :)

I believe Goldielocks was disregarding the inactive cards, and calculating only from those cards that have active transactions in a month.  I.E. 43% of people who used their card during the month pay it off, while 57% carry a balance.  Those are closer than I would have expected - I would have called a much higher percentage of "revolvers."

Debts_of_Despair

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18545 on: September 11, 2017, 02:56:28 PM »
We have a retroactive salary check coming up.  People are are cranking up their withholding allowances because they need the money now and don't want to pay "extra" in taxes!  I can understand making some calculations on what the taxes are actually going to be and adjusting accordingly but these people don't even know what a marginal tax bracket is.

kayvent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18546 on: September 11, 2017, 03:13:57 PM »
We have a retroactive salary check coming up.  People are are cranking up their withholding allowances because they need the money now and don't want to pay "extra" in taxes!  I can understand making some calculations on what the taxes are actually going to be and adjusting accordingly but these people don't even know what a marginal tax bracket is.

:( This topic makes me depressed. I hear so much misinformed spew because people don't know this.

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18547 on: September 12, 2017, 09:57:33 AM »
We have a retroactive salary check coming up.  People are are cranking up their withholding allowances because they need the money now and don't want to pay "extra" in taxes!  I can understand making some calculations on what the taxes are actually going to be and adjusting accordingly but these people don't even know what a marginal tax bracket is.

:( This topic makes me depressed. I hear so much misinformed spew because people don't know this.

"I don't want to earn more money because my taxes will go up and I'll actually pocket less money!"

BDWW

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18548 on: September 12, 2017, 12:19:29 PM »
^Reminds me of conversation I had at work a couple months ago, so the details will be a little sketchy.

Her contractor husband just bought a huge new truck. I asked her about it, and she said that it was a write off to avoid paying taxes. Apparently his accountant advised him to make any capital expenditures he could to lower his tax burden for the year. All common enough stuff in the trades, but he actually had a fairly new truck. I mentioned that if he/they had just paid the taxes and kept the current truck they would have probably come out ahead. More taxes, but more money in their pockets too. And that the depreciation of the truck in the first year would probably cancel out a large portion of the tax savings... 

"Well, he really wanted a new truck anyway."

Fair enough.

dycker1978

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18549 on: September 12, 2017, 12:53:30 PM »
CW insisted on telling me his "strategy" at the casino the other day. It hurt.

CW: "I'll wait till we win about a hundred dollars, then go take that out to the car so my wife can't spend it all back at the casino"
Me: "Yea but how much do you typically spend to make the first hundred?"
CW: "I dunno, but we aren't using the high roller slot machines, some people will go crazy on those things. They play five dollars at a time! We use the dollar machines."
CW: "I go to the casino to make money, not spend it!"

I didn't have anything constructive to say, hearing something that crazy blew my mind. I was speechless and changed the topic.

My parents went to Vegas two to three times per year for decades and always came back talking about the one or two big wins that they had during the trip. In each of these instances I tried to find out how much they spent to get the big win, and never could elicit an answer that made mathematical sense.  My father was otherwise logical and clear minded, but there was some sort of euphoric recall that took over when slot machines were involved.  I think at the end of the day, they spent $s at the casino being entertained in ways they enjoyed and the total cost was in their budget, so no harm no foul.

Classic illustration of the principle of intermittent reward. Nobody enjoys counting up all the small losses, but that win! They might even put you on a billboard! Nobody asks how many decades that middle-aged cocktail waitress in Vegas spent losing hundreds a month before she won her tens of thousands, they just know how happy she looks up there! Be her!

I hit the casinos every week or two when living in Biloxi, but I'd walk in with $20 in cash, play the cheapest video blackjack or poker machine I could find, play slowly, and milk that for "free" drinks (+$1 tip) until I ran out. It was cheaper than a typical bar tab and more entertaining, so I called it a win. Careful players might hack the system even better for real benefits, but that's all ever I cared to do.

*******************************************************************
Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

This reminds me of a previous job.  It was about 2 blocks from the casino.  I did not have a second car, so I car pooled with another guy, and paid for parking every second day.  The casino would give free parking, if you spend $10 on the slots.  Parking was $10 for the day, so we would always play the slots.  There were a couple of times we won $20 or so.  But we always got parking for free.