Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8091410 times)

wauske

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18500 on: September 02, 2017, 08:07:36 AM »
Chugger = "charity mugger". Someone who accosts you in the street or on your own doorstep trying to get you to sign up to make a regular donation to their charity. They're not volunteers, they're paid by the charity.
Getting one at the door would be a good way to STOP me from making donations.
Luckily I live in a "relatively poor" area rented flat (mostly old people here), so the doors are fairly save, and in Germany it's less anyway. Except a very few (real or not real, most likely latter) refugees there were only two sellers of something in the last 10 years.
Poor area or not they still come by the door in my city. When they ask me whether I want to pay for whatever charity they are selling I tell them that all my donations go to the Downsyndrome foundation (which is true), I then proceed to explain in great detail how this helps our son yada yada and if they want to subscribe too? The look on their face is epic, especially when our son is in view. It makes for a very convincing pitch, generally better than theirs though I haven't converted anyone yet ;)
Everything I say is my personal opinion which is based on my subjective experience.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18501 on: September 02, 2017, 01:06:49 PM »
Chugger = "charity mugger". Someone who accosts you in the street or on your own doorstep trying to get you to sign up to make a regular donation to their charity. They're not volunteers, they're paid by the charity.
Getting one at the door would be a good way to STOP me from making donations.
Luckily I live in a "relatively poor" area rented flat (mostly old people here), so the doors are fairly save, and in Germany it's less anyway. Except a very few (real or not real, most likely latter) refugees there were only two sellers of something in the last 10 years.
Poor area or not they still come by the door in my city. When they ask me whether I want to pay for whatever charity they are selling I tell them that all my donations go to the Downsyndrome foundation (which is true), I then proceed to explain in great detail how this helps our son yada yada and if they want to subscribe too? The look on their face is epic, especially when our son is in view. It makes for a very convincing pitch, generally better than theirs though I haven't converted anyone yet ;)

I definitely noticed an increase when I moved to a more 'working class' area a few years back. Not just chuggers, also Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons, the Church of Christ (I thought all churches were the church of Christ?) and people trying to sell magazine subscriptions or other products. I think it's because in my new neighbourhood a lot of people are at home during the day, the elderly, stay at home parents, unemployed people.

I'm polite to everyone, but I do make it clear straight away that I'm not interested. I have gotten into discusions with chuggers in the past though. I always tell them that if the charity is so important to them, why don't they donate their wages? They ususally say something like "would you work for free? I need to pay my bills". Well, yes, actually, I do work for free for my favourite charity because their work is important to me. I give some money to charity too (not to charities that waste their money on chuggers) but as I have more time than money I mainly donate my skills.

Inaya

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18502 on: September 02, 2017, 04:21:36 PM »
* I say many people, I mean me. I'm rude to chuggers. There are laws against begging in the UK, they often break them. I avoid eye contact, so they only interact with me by physically blocking my way or by touching me. By that point, they no longer deserve my civility (there is clearly some selection bias here, so I'm only rude to the pushy chuggers).



I used to try to be polite. Then one literally cornered me against a wall and wouldn't let me pass. Now I just glower at them or pretend to be on my phone.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18503 on: September 03, 2017, 12:40:23 AM »
* I say many people, I mean me. I'm rude to chuggers. There are laws against begging in the UK, they often break them. I avoid eye contact, so they only interact with me by physically blocking my way or by touching me. By that point, they no longer deserve my civility (there is clearly some selection bias here, so I'm only rude to the pushy chuggers).
I used to try to be polite. Then one literally cornered me against a wall and wouldn't let me pass. Now I just glower at them or pretend to be on my phone.

Yes, this is the sort of shit I won't stand for.

sea_saw

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18504 on: September 03, 2017, 02:52:14 PM »
I stride right past chuggers with a breezy smile but total refusal to make eye contact. On my face that seems to be the most efficient way to be left alone. Otherwise they think I haven't seen them and try to get my attention.

WHEW. It's taken me actual months to make my way through this thread. Don't talk to me about foam, guns, or orange/black boxes. A few minor contributions, from a generally disappointingly sane and sensible workplace. I've been doing a lot more money talk recently thanks to a very lengthy and convoluted house purchase where I ran through a few different financing options at different times. (All different people).

Me: moving house! going to be looking for furniture soon! Exciting and daunting :)
CW: do you have a credit card these days? (referencing a long-ago conversation where I said I didn't see the point in having one, because I didn't need/want credit and everywhere accepts debit these days)
Me: yeah I got one a couple years ago to do online transactions with. Why do you ask?
CW: Oh I'm so pleased for you! That's fantastic.
Me: Why?
CW: Setting up a flat is expensive! You'll have to do it on credit, it's the only way! Wait and see.

CW: So what's the current financing situation? can you afford the place alone in the end?
Me: Just about. But unless I share with a tenant, I won't be saving anything at all, only just about breaking even each month. So sharing is kind of a must.
CW: Lol, 'saving'? You were saving up for a house. Now that you have one, you don't need to save any more. What would be the point?
Me: I mean it's worth it to me to spend all of my money to have somewhere to live that I love, but I'd be sad to miss out on about 7 years of compound interest until I can get out of the extra financing hole. 
CW: NO ONE who owns a house saves. So long as you can make the mortgage payments, don't worry about the rest. Anyway there's no point. Savings accounts can't remotely keep up with property prices around here.
Me: I wasn't planning on keeping all my money in a bank savings account...
CW: Whatever. You still can't beat property! It's not possible!

Me: Wow, my bank just sent me a text reminding me they're going to take out my very first mortgage payment in a couple of weeks. Like I didn't realise I was moving house! I wonder what the people they normally deal with are like... it's a very stern text that sounds like they're expecting an argument.
CW: Actually it's a legal requirement that they notify you.
Me: I guess that makes sense, sounds like a good idea. It's just the way it's phrased, like they think I'm going to be surprised by it. I suppose some people must be.
CW:  Back in the day, the first payment used to be on the day the mortgage came through. So the money would be sent to you and then immediately deducted again for the sale plus extra for the first repayment! Never made sense to me, might as well have not lent that chunk in the first place. And a lot of people got hit with it unexpectedly right in the middle of moving expenses and so on.
Me: That's interesting, I never even saw the mortgage money, it went straight to the solicitors. And in the mortgage application paperwork it said what day of the month you'd like to pay, 1st, 5th, 10th etc. I just picked the first.
CW:  *looks suddenly shocked* why the 1st? Wouldn't you want the 20th? (we get paid mid month).
Me: Um, it was the first option... I honestly didn't really think about it. Why?
CW: Aren't you worried half the money will be gone by then?
Me: ...no?

Christof

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18505 on: September 03, 2017, 03:12:04 PM »
Admittedly, I would have picket the option that cost me the least amount in interest, so most likely the 1st, too. Not sure what payday has to do with this unless we are in negative interest territory, though.

Dollar Slice

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18506 on: September 03, 2017, 08:52:56 PM »
CW:  *looks suddenly shocked* why the 1st? Wouldn't you want the 20th? (we get paid mid month).
Me: Um, it was the first option... I honestly didn't really think about it. Why?
CW: Aren't you worried half the money will be gone by then?
Me: ...no?

Don't you just hate it when your mortgage payment spends itself when you're not looking?

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Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18507 on: September 04, 2017, 01:26:49 AM »
CW:  *looks suddenly shocked* why the 1st? Wouldn't you want the 20th? (we get paid mid month).
Me: Um, it was the first option... I honestly didn't really think about it. Why?
CW: Aren't you worried half the money will be gone by then?
Me: ...no?

Related and overheard at work: you should pick the first for your mortgage payment, so that if you are having trouble paying it you can switch the payment day to the 28th and get a month for 'free'.

Not entirely terrible, but planning to be unable to pay your mortgage is a whole level of irresponsible.

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18508 on: September 04, 2017, 01:42:13 AM »
I would probably had chosen the payday or the day after, just for the easiness of accounting...


Dave1442397

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18509 on: September 04, 2017, 05:48:26 PM »
CW:  *looks suddenly shocked* why the 1st? Wouldn't you want the 20th? (we get paid mid month).
Me: Um, it was the first option... I honestly didn't really think about it. Why?
CW: Aren't you worried half the money will be gone by then?
Me: ...no?

Don't you just hate it when your mortgage payment spends itself when you're not looking?

(OK, admittedly there was that one time I bought something on eBay in my sleep...)

I have a CW who has many entertaining stories about his deadbeat relatives. He still can't figure out how they got a mortgage in the first place (on a $125k condo in PA), but when the first mortgage payment was due, they said they were short of money and couldn't pay it until the 15th of the month, but that was ok because there was no penalty if they paid by then.

He asked them what they were going to do the next month...<crickets>...

Scandium

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18510 on: September 05, 2017, 09:39:12 AM »
(referencing a long-ago conversation where I said I didn't see the point in having one, because I didn't need/want credit and everywhere accepts debit these days)

To be fair this is pretty good advice; saving/cash-back 1-5% on every single thing you buy is good money! With the average MMM spending probably $500/year at least. I've seen people here do worse for less than that..

Digital Dogma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18511 on: September 05, 2017, 10:26:01 AM »
CW insisted on telling me his "strategy" at the casino the other day. It hurt.

CW: "I'll wait till we win about a hundred dollars, then go take that out to the car so my wife can't spend it all back at the casino"
Me: "Yea but how much do you typically spend to make the first hundred?"
CW: "I dunno, but we aren't using the high roller slot machines, some people will go crazy on those things. They play five dollars at a time! We use the dollar machines."
CW: "I go to the casino to make money, not spend it!"

I didn't have anything constructive to say, hearing something that crazy blew my mind. I was speechless and changed the topic.

aperture

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18512 on: September 05, 2017, 10:57:44 AM »
CW insisted on telling me his "strategy" at the casino the other day. It hurt.

CW: "I'll wait till we win about a hundred dollars, then go take that out to the car so my wife can't spend it all back at the casino"
Me: "Yea but how much do you typically spend to make the first hundred?"
CW: "I dunno, but we aren't using the high roller slot machines, some people will go crazy on those things. They play five dollars at a time! We use the dollar machines."
CW: "I go to the casino to make money, not spend it!"

I didn't have anything constructive to say, hearing something that crazy blew my mind. I was speechless and changed the topic.

My parents went to Vegas two to three times per year for decades and always came back talking about the one or two big wins that they had during the trip. In each of these instances I tried to find out how much they spent to get the big win, and never could elicit an answer that made mathematical sense.  My father was otherwise logical and clear minded, but there was some sort of euphoric recall that took over when slot machines were involved.  I think at the end of the day, they spent $s at the casino being entertained in ways they enjoyed and the total cost was in their budget, so no harm no foul. 
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18513 on: September 05, 2017, 11:16:22 AM »
I've mentioned before that everyone at work is pretty frugal.  The boss' '99 Corolla got totalled a few months back.  He replaced it...with a 2003 Honda Accord with over 200k miles on it.  And despite the peeling clear coat, this one has all the bells and whistles--leather seats, moon roof, heated seats, V6 engine, power everything!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18514 on: September 05, 2017, 11:23:56 AM »
CW insisted on telling me his "strategy" at the casino the other day. It hurt.

CW: "I'll wait till we win about a hundred dollars, then go take that out to the car so my wife can't spend it all back at the casino"
Me: "Yea but how much do you typically spend to make the first hundred?"
CW: "I dunno, but we aren't using the high roller slot machines, some people will go crazy on those things. They play five dollars at a time! We use the dollar machines."
CW: "I go to the casino to make money, not spend it!"

I didn't have anything constructive to say, hearing something that crazy blew my mind. I was speechless and changed the topic.

My parents went to Vegas two to three times per year for decades and always came back talking about the one or two big wins that they had during the trip. In each of these instances I tried to find out how much they spent to get the big win, and never could elicit an answer that made mathematical sense.  My father was otherwise logical and clear minded, but there was some sort of euphoric recall that took over when slot machines were involved.  I think at the end of the day, they spent $s at the casino being entertained in ways they enjoyed and the total cost was in their budget, so no harm no foul.

I think I've told this before on this board, but I'm not sure.

My Mother is always on me about Vegas as a "cheap" vacation.  She tells me about how my Dad and his friends do a few guys trips a year. They go out there and their hotel is comped, they usually get a few dinners, a round of golf or two, and maybe even a show comped. While they play, all their drinks are free.

Um, Mom. Money is being spent somewhere. Do you really think I'm going to gamble the kind of money it takes to get all those "freebies"?

My Dad absolutely has the kind of money to spend to get so much "free". But Vegas isn't a cheap vacation, no matter how many comps they throw at you.

(She also likes to insist I take a cheap southwest flight out there, despite being told again and again we don't have southwest.)

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18515 on: September 05, 2017, 02:18:11 PM »
Some new employees have been hired. They are youngish.  I finally have something to contribute! 
CW1:  Costs for basic cruises are so low, you'd be an idiot NOT to go on one.
CW2:  Right, you can't even afford to stay home and eat and drink like that for that low price.
CW1:  Well, drinking is extra, but I saved so much on the Room and Meals that I could afford most of the extras. 

Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18516 on: September 05, 2017, 02:36:12 PM »
Some new employees have been hired. They are youngish.  I finally have something to contribute! 
CW1:  Costs for basic cruises are so low, you'd be an idiot NOT to go on one.
CW2:  Right, you can't even afford to stay home and eat and drink like that for that low price.
CW1:  Well, drinking is extra, but I saved so much on the Room and Meals that I could afford most of the extras.

I guess some people are such spendthrifts that an all-inclusive trip is cheaper than staying at home and being tempted to buy large useless things to store in your house. At least on a cruise you're stuck with buying smaller things (if anything) because you can't bring it back?

martyconlonontherun

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18517 on: September 05, 2017, 02:54:20 PM »
Yesterday a kind coworker told me "if you pay yourself first and save one hour of each day's paycheck, by the time you're my age [54], you could have $500k!"

I smiled because she had really good advice and knew what she was talking about. Of course I didn't tell her by the time I'm her age I'll have three times that amount (hopefully) and be long retired!
I think this is straight out of automatic millionaire (or the author stole it from somewhere), but that is basically the second chapter. I was bored in Barnes and Noble so read it yesterday.

I feel her though. I'm having regret not seriously investing until 28/29. i couldn't even imagine being 54 and being told 30 years ago if I just would've paid myself first a small percentage of my income I could retire on the spot but now its too late has to eat at the sole. She's probably desperately telling any young kid that she knows to not make her mistake.

kayvent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18518 on: September 05, 2017, 07:13:23 PM »
Yesterday a kind coworker told me "if you pay yourself first and save one hour of each day's paycheck, by the time you're my age [54], you could have $500k!"

I smiled because she had really good advice and knew what she was talking about. Of course I didn't tell her by the time I'm her age I'll have three times that amount (hopefully) and be long retired!
I think this is straight out of automatic millionaire (or the author stole it from somewhere), but that is basically the second chapter. I was bored in Barnes and Noble so read it yesterday.

I feel her though. I'm having regret not seriously investing until 28/29. i couldn't even imagine being 54 and being told 30 years ago if I just would've paid myself first a small percentage of my income I could retire on the spot but now its too late has to eat at the sole. She's probably desperately telling any young kid that she knows to not make her mistake.

Three years ago I started working at [large Fortune 500 company]. Except for one other person, everyone in my office was 10-18 years my senior. I saw this as an excellent opportunity to gain career wisdom and insight. One day I asked one of my co-workers what was his biggest mistake when he was green in the field like me. Like a true sensei, he gave an answer I never would have expected. He advice was to save more money. He briefly alluded to the math behind saving early, often, and superfluously.

It was kinda eye-opening that someone a dozen years into their career would give a junior that advice.

Gone_Hiking

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18519 on: September 05, 2017, 08:57:28 PM »

Three years ago I started working at [large Fortune 500 company]. Except for one other person, everyone in my office was 10-18 years my senior. I saw this as an excellent opportunity to gain career wisdom and insight. One day I asked one of my co-workers what was his biggest mistake when he was green in the field like me. Like a true sensei, he gave an answer I never would have expected. He advice was to save more money. He briefly alluded to the math behind saving early, often, and superfluously.

It was kinda eye-opening that someone a dozen years into their career would give a junior that advice.

You seem to have good co-workers, giving you advice not just about work, but about life, too.  I've recently acquired a new mentee - a fresh college graduate.    And today, when she asked me how to request vacation, I was able to walk her through the HR software and its quirks.  I then remembered to emphasize taking all of vacation days this year since our employer does not allow year-to-year rollovers and some inexperience people may be caught unaware when the last day or two they were saving disappear in January.    I hope to be as wise to my charge as your colleague was to you.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18520 on: September 06, 2017, 08:04:51 AM »
CW insisted on telling me his "strategy" at the casino the other day. It hurt.

CW: "I'll wait till we win about a hundred dollars, then go take that out to the car so my wife can't spend it all back at the casino"
Me: "Yea but how much do you typically spend to make the first hundred?"
CW: "I dunno, but we aren't using the high roller slot machines, some people will go crazy on those things. They play five dollars at a time! We use the dollar machines."
CW: "I go to the casino to make money, not spend it!"

I didn't have anything constructive to say, hearing something that crazy blew my mind. I was speechless and changed the topic.

My parents went to Vegas two to three times per year for decades and always came back talking about the one or two big wins that they had during the trip. In each of these instances I tried to find out how much they spent to get the big win, and never could elicit an answer that made mathematical sense.  My father was otherwise logical and clear minded, but there was some sort of euphoric recall that took over when slot machines were involved.  I think at the end of the day, they spent $s at the casino being entertained in ways they enjoyed and the total cost was in their budget, so no harm no foul.

Classic illustration of the principle of intermittent reward. Nobody enjoys counting up all the small losses, but that win! They might even put you on a billboard! Nobody asks how many decades that middle-aged cocktail waitress in Vegas spent losing hundreds a month before she won her tens of thousands, they just know how happy she looks up there! Be her!

I hit the casinos every week or two when living in Biloxi, but I'd walk in with $20 in cash, play the cheapest video blackjack or poker machine I could find, play slowly, and milk that for "free" drinks (+$1 tip) until I ran out. It was cheaper than a typical bar tab and more entertaining, so I called it a win. Careful players might hack the system even better for real benefits, but that's all ever I cared to do.

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Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)
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RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18521 on: September 06, 2017, 08:10:47 AM »
Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

That's an awesome reply.

Raenia

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18522 on: September 06, 2017, 09:17:56 AM »
Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

That's an awesome reply.

Love it!  I did used to participate in a lotto pool at one of my old jobs, but only because 3/4 of the staff was in on it (small office) and if they managed by some chance to win, I didn't want to be the one person coming in to work the next week.  That place sucked so bad, even with splitting the pot 8 ways or whatever, it would have been worth quitting without being fully FI.

BiochemicalDJ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18523 on: September 06, 2017, 09:27:27 AM »

Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

I was running some actuarial tables yesterday for fun using StatsCan's databases and their export functions-

Found out I have roughly a 1723:1 chance of dying sometime in any given year randomly for any reason (fudgy math, but close enough.)
By the time I'm 85, those odds drop to 8:1.
I have a 645,000:1 chance of dying from terrorism while overseas if travelling.
We have ~ a 15,000,000:1 chance of winning the lottery in Canada.

I told my co-workers, but they would rather believe they're the one special snowflake...

« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 09:29:56 AM by BiochemicalDJ »
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marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18524 on: September 06, 2017, 09:33:24 AM »

Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

I was running some actuarial tables yesterday for fun using StatsCan's databases and their export functions-

Found out I have roughly a 1723:1 chance of dying sometime in any given year randomly for any reason (fudgy math, but close enough.)
By the time I'm 85, those odds drop to 8:1.
I have a 645,000:1 chance of dying from terrorism while overseas if travelling.
We have ~ a 15,000,000:1 chance of winning the lottery in Canada.

I told my co-workers, but they would rather believe they're the one special snowflake...

1723:1 seems...high. How old are you?

Now I'm paranoid for no reason.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18525 on: September 06, 2017, 10:17:46 AM »

Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

I was running some actuarial tables yesterday for fun using StatsCan's databases and their export functions-

Found out I have roughly a 1723:1 chance of dying sometime in any given year randomly for any reason (fudgy math, but close enough.)
By the time I'm 85, those odds drop to 8:1.
I have a 645,000:1 chance of dying from terrorism while overseas if travelling.
We have ~ a 15,000,000:1 chance of winning the lottery in Canada.

I told my co-workers, but they would rather believe they're the one special snowflake...

1723:1 seems...high. How old are you?

Now I'm paranoid for no reason.

No, it sounds about right--note that BiochemicalDJ said "Any given year", and it is for any reason. It is fuzzy math, but think about it as

(chances of dying this year)+(chances of dying next year)*X+(chances of dying next year)*Y+.....+(chances of dying in year n)*Z

Where X, Y,...,Z are some discounting factors based on the amount of time to reach year n, as well as a bunch of other factors (i.e. if you've lived to 85, you can't die when you're 75; similarly you can't die at 85 if you died at 75). Also note that it isn't your chances of dying, which is obviously 1:1.

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18526 on: September 06, 2017, 10:23:06 AM »
No, it sounds about right--note that BiochemicalDJ said "Any given year", and it is for any reason. It is fuzzy math, but think about it as

(chances of dying this year)+(chances of dying next year)*X+(chances of dying next year)*Y+.....+(chances of dying in year n)*Z

Where X, Y,...,Z are some discounting factors based on the amount of time to reach year n, as well as a bunch of other factors (i.e. if you've lived to 85, you can't die when you're 75; similarly you can't die at 85 if you died at 75). Also note that it isn't your chances of dying, which is obviously 1:1.

By this logic, the chance for dying at any given year should be 1 (not 1:1, which is a 50% chance), since I will definitly die in any year.

I think he says, 1723:1 is the chance of dying within the next 365 days (which seems unlikely high, but who knows).


frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18527 on: September 06, 2017, 10:27:12 AM »

Related, ish ("gambling"), but more just a random observation: most of my co-workers are in a lotto pool.
They've mostly stopped offering me the buy-in, but my stock reply of late is a mournful "sorry, blew it all on investments". ;)

I was running some actuarial tables yesterday for fun using StatsCan's databases and their export functions-

Found out I have roughly a 1723:1 chance of dying sometime in any given year randomly for any reason (fudgy math, but close enough.)
By the time I'm 85, those odds drop to 8:1.
I have a 645,000:1 chance of dying from terrorism while overseas if travelling.
We have ~ a 15,000,000:1 chance of winning the lottery in Canada.

I told my co-workers, but they would rather believe they're the one special snowflake...

1723:1 seems...high. How old are you?

Now I'm paranoid for no reason.

It doesn't seem that high.  North carolina has 13.7 traffic deaths per 100,000 population.  That's 7,300:1 just for traffic deaths.  The murder rate in NC is 5.2 per 100,000.  That's 5,291:1 that you get murdered by a car or person.  You could also get cancer, or some other disease or medical complication. 

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18528 on: September 06, 2017, 10:32:44 AM »
No, it sounds about right--note that BiochemicalDJ said "Any given year", and it is for any reason. It is fuzzy math, but think about it as

(chances of dying this year)+(chances of dying next year)*X+(chances of dying next year)*Y+.....+(chances of dying in year n)*Z

Where X, Y,...,Z are some discounting factors based on the amount of time to reach year n, as well as a bunch of other factors (i.e. if you've lived to 85, you can't die when you're 75; similarly you can't die at 85 if you died at 75). Also note that it isn't your chances of dying, which is obviously 1:1.

By this logic, the chance for dying at any given year should be 1 (not 1:1, which is a 50% chance), since I will definitly die in any year.

I think he says, 1723:1 is the chance of dying within the next 365 days (which seems unlikely high, but who knows).

No, not quite. You're forgetting my variable, which is a discounting factor. At age 27, the chances that I die at age 27-70 are all almost nothing--I think that we can all agree on that. But at age 27, the chance that I die at age 85... is still almost nothing. There is a much better chance that I die at any age other than 85 than my dying at age 85.

It isn't saying, what are the chances that I die. It is saying, what are the chances that I die in any given year?

Of course, I could be completely wrong with his intent.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18529 on: September 06, 2017, 11:07:34 AM »
These statistics are very interesting to me, since I have pretty bad anxiety. Some days, the only way I get to work is by reminding myself that the odds of me getting mugged, hit by a car, caught in a terrorist attack, etc., are exceedingly low.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18530 on: September 06, 2017, 01:33:14 PM »
These statistics are very interesting to me, since I have pretty bad anxiety. Some days, the only way I get to work is by reminding myself that the odds of me getting mugged, hit by a car, caught in a terrorist attack, etc., are exceedingly low.

Honestly, I've done a course in Stats, read a few books on 'pop statistics', and done the introductory first few chapters of several texts on it when I want to try and refresh my memory on it, and I still can't do this stuff quickly on the fly- Especially when you start getting into permutations vs. combinations (If you don't know, don't worry about it.)

To get these numbers, I just filtered Statscan down to deaths per hundred thousand, all cause, then filtered again by my age and all age windows up to 90, had to re-adjust to get a bit less data (less detail in the possible causes), and then did the conversion for 'Probability to odds'.

There are a ton of assumptions here, of course. And it doesn't account for the massive skews that are possibly in the data- for example, all homicide in my country is likely localized to a few given population centers- and in there, even probably a few neighbourhoods. So they're rolled into my stats as well- even though I don't live anywhere near there, for example.

So this really is sort of a 'worst case scenario'- I'm also not really average as far as behaviours go (drive less than my peers, exercise, eat mostly slow-carb/cyclical keto, bike to work every day), so I can imagine that there's some protection involved there.

Now the depressing thing is looking at the actuarial tables for the parents and older loved ones in your life and realizing that the number of years they're likely to have left is much, much smaller than you'd imagine. Especially when you're seeing them like 4x per year at holidays for 1-2 days at a time, so the actual times you'll see them on this planet is likely under 100 more visits.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18531 on: September 06, 2017, 01:47:14 PM »
1723:1 seems...high. How old are you?

Now I'm paranoid for no reason.

I'm an aging Millenial. I remember Hercules, Xena, and Sinbad, but was already done with school when 'On Fleek' started.

Rolling a 1723-sided die once a year isn't that bad a deal. And the things that are likely to kill me at this age hopefully won't hurt (should be too fast/catastrophic), so there's some comfort in that. And yeah, once every 365 days is how  I'm looking at it, but remember- this is pretty fudgy math. It uses Canada-wide data for a pretty universal thing, but there are likely skewing outliers and other oddities it doesn't account for.

It's enough to know that I'm almost 9000 times more likely to die this year than I am to win the lottery, should I buy a ticket. Even if it was 900 times more likely, or 500 times, or 10 times more likely- it still points out the inherent silliness of the lottery. Or at least, that was my intent.

I used to have a friend who said that morally speaking, he wasn't at all uncomfortable with the idea of being hunted for food, as long as he didn't suffer pain or see it coming- So I've tried to apply that philosophy to help get over my day-to-day fear of death. After all, for all the billions of years I *didn't* exist on this planet, it's not like there was any part of me floating around going 'Come ON, why can't I just get BORN already?' so why should I get pissed off with the idea of not being on the planet when my time's up?

Aaaaand to grab the reins and rip this back to topic...

I have a co-worker who responded to my talking about how it was awesome that used snowblowers were down to like $300 in my area by telling me how he would only consider buying a brand new snowblower for ~$1800 that has heated handles and and electric chute control because you just 'gotta have new.'
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 01:50:49 PM by BiochemicalDJ »
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18532 on: September 06, 2017, 01:57:01 PM »
long time reader of this thread, finally have a contribution!

Co-worker (approx 60 years old) was back today from a vacation in the big city where she dropped thousands at costco and got, among other things, a 65-inch TV. Then told me she "would be working for a few more years to pay off the credit card"

I guess it could have been worse - she didn't try to tell me that she "deserved it"

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18533 on: September 06, 2017, 02:00:45 PM »
long time reader of this thread, finally have a contribution!

Co-worker (approx 60 years old) was back today from a vacation in the big city where she dropped thousands at costco and got, among other things, a 65-inch TV. Then told me she "would be working for a few more years to pay off the credit card"

I guess it could have been worse - she didn't try to tell me that she "deserved it"

I think she does deserve it. Every cent of that debt and every extra hour of working is exactly what she deserves. At least she bought it at costco?
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idahofire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18534 on: September 06, 2017, 09:29:16 PM »
I've mentioned before that everyone at work is pretty frugal.  The boss' '99 Corolla got totalled a few months back.  He replaced it...with a 2003 Honda Accord with over 200k miles on it.  And despite the peeling clear coat, this one has all the bells and whistles--leather seats, moon roof, heated seats, V6 engine, power everything!

Legendary! haha

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18535 on: September 07, 2017, 01:58:34 AM »
No, not quite. You're forgetting my variable, which is a discounting factor. At age 27, the chances that I die at age 27-70 are all almost nothing--I think that we can all agree on that.
No, the chance to die between the age of 27 and 70 is ~20%. That's way more than almost nothing in my mind.

Quote
But at age 27, the chance that I die at age 85... is still almost nothing. There is a much better chance that I die at any age other than 85 than my dying at age 85.
True, but what kind of argument is "why do you play lotto? the chance that you die at the exact age of 83 is 1:8483!"? I don't think this was his intent.

But to bring some facts to the table, here is the mortality table for Germany:
https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFakten/GesellschaftStaat/Bevoelkerung/Sterbefaelle/Tabellen/SterbetafelDeutschland.xlsx?__blob=publicationFile



Dabnasty

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18536 on: September 07, 2017, 02:31:37 PM »
I have a smart meter for my apartment so I compared 2 days hourly kWh usage, a work day with the AC off and a weekend day where we left it running continuously (attachment). Outside temps were almost identical, data taken from National Weather Service station within a few miles of home.

After the first month in our apartment I was worried about our electric bill being so high so I asked someone to take a look at the AC unit and make sure it wasn't malfunctioning and running inefficiently. An employee told me it was probably because I was turning the AC off during the day...I tried to explain the physics to him but he became progressively more upset and loud presumably because I was disagreeing with him?

Anyway, I put this together to prove him wrong but in the end thought better of it since there was really nothing to be gained other than him seeing me as a smartass for the rest of the time I live there. But now I have these awesome visual aids for when the issue comes up in casual conversation.

Edit: Dang. I was late to the AC party. The speed at which a thread about coworkers bad spending habits grows is both worrisome and unsurprising.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 02:38:30 PM by Dabnasty »

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18537 on: September 07, 2017, 04:04:21 PM »
I have a smart meter for my apartment so I compared 2 days hourly kWh usage, a work day with the AC off and a weekend day where we left it running continuously (attachment). Outside temps were almost identical, data taken from National Weather Service station within a few miles of home.

After the first month in our apartment I was worried about our electric bill being so high so I asked someone to take a look at the AC unit and make sure it wasn't malfunctioning and running inefficiently. An employee told me it was probably because I was turning the AC off during the day...I tried to explain the physics to him but he became progressively more upset and loud presumably because I was disagreeing with him?

Anyway, I put this together to prove him wrong but in the end thought better of it since there was really nothing to be gained other than him seeing me as a smartass for the rest of the time I live there. But now I have these awesome visual aids for when the issue comes up in casual conversation.

Edit: Dang. I was late to the AC party. The speed at which a thread about coworkers bad spending habits grows is both worrisome and unsurprising.

Cool to see some real data.  Is that total usage for your apartment, or usage of your A/C unit only?

Megma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18538 on: September 07, 2017, 06:03:46 PM »
CW: I'm thinking about buying a tent but I hate camping.

Me and all other coworkers: so...why buy a tent?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18539 on: September 08, 2017, 11:05:00 AM »
I have a smart meter for my apartment so I compared 2 days hourly kWh usage, a work day with the AC off and a weekend day where we left it running continuously (attachment). Outside temps were almost identical, data taken from National Weather Service station within a few miles of home.

After the first month in our apartment I was worried about our electric bill being so high so I asked someone to take a look at the AC unit and make sure it wasn't malfunctioning and running inefficiently. An employee told me it was probably because I was turning the AC off during the day...I tried to explain the physics to him but he became progressively more upset and loud presumably because I was disagreeing with him?

Anyway, I put this together to prove him wrong but in the end thought better of it since there was really nothing to be gained other than him seeing me as a smartass for the rest of the time I live there. But now I have these awesome visual aids for when the issue comes up in casual conversation.

Edit: Dang. I was late to the AC party. The speed at which a thread about coworkers bad spending habits grows is both worrisome and unsurprising.

the bar graph is cool and all but i'm missing data from the spread sheet.  to see what the difference in kWH was between the 2 days.  is it obviously lower on the graph yes but a simple x much used one day y much used the next would be better
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RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18540 on: September 08, 2017, 12:16:54 PM »
the bar graph is cool and all but i'm missing data from the spread sheet.  to see what the difference in kWH was between the 2 days.  is it obviously lower on the graph yes but a simple x much used one day y much used the next would be better

There are totals above the graphs.  21.8kWh vs 31.92, so 50% higher leaving the A/C on.

PencilThinStash

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18541 on: September 08, 2017, 12:32:35 PM »
long time reader of this thread, finally have a contribution!

Co-worker (approx 60 years old) was back today from a vacation in the big city where she dropped thousands at costco and got, among other things, a 65-inch TV. Then told me she "would be working for a few more years to pay off the credit card"

I guess it could have been worse - she didn't try to tell me that she "deserved it"

I think she does deserve it. Every cent of that debt and every extra hour of working is exactly what she deserves.

Damn, kill shot. That's my type of ruthless, right there.

...filing this away for future use.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18542 on: September 11, 2017, 06:10:49 AM »
Friend-turned-coworker after he helped me get a foot in the door at our current company got debt free (except his mortgage) about a year and a half ago. This was after being over 60k in credit card debt plus student loans and a number of other things. So what does he do? Goes out and buys a $40k used Chevrolet SS. Ok, his 2013 mazdaspeed 3 was a little small for him. Whatever. Then it turns out him and his wife can't get pregnant. She absolutely HAS to have a child that she birthed (adoption is out of the question despite their strong Christian, "love everybody" outlook on things), so 3 rounds of IVF at $15k a pop, all put on credit cards. So now we are up to 85k back in debt after having JUST paid all of it off.

Ok, so he got it out of his system, right? I mean, he has his nice car, she has her baby, enough spending .... right?
Wrong.

He got a new car (not new, 3 years old used, but whatever) so his wife OBVIOUSLY deserves a new car too, right? Because her kia SUV and his FULL SIZED FAMILY SEDAN are just not enough to haul around an infant. CLEARLY the only logical decision is to trade in the Kia that they just paid off for a brand new plug-in hybrid Pacifica. Because third row seating is an absolute necessity for a family of 3 with (let's be honest after all they went through having the first kid) very little chance of growing.

I just want to smash my face on my desk having heard all of this ...

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18543 on: September 11, 2017, 08:12:58 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.
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RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18544 on: September 11, 2017, 08:29:53 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

This probably came from the myth that your credit score goes up when you carry a balance (pay interest). Untrue, of course, as anyone who pays off their card in full every month can tell you.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18545 on: September 11, 2017, 08:41:47 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

Credit card companies love me because I charge everything I buy to get my 2% back. They get their 1% (net) from merchants, everybody's happy.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18546 on: September 11, 2017, 08:47:18 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

ducky19

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18547 on: September 11, 2017, 09:06:46 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

Yeah... I don't think they liked you.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18548 on: September 11, 2017, 09:14:19 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

But they literally get a transaction fee plus a percentage of the sale every time you use it which is completely separate from the interest you would pay them, so they still make money off you.  Unless they have a limit on the number of accounts they are allowed to have and needed to clear out some accounts to make room for better accounts (ie people who pay interest) it doesn't even make sense for them to cancel you.

WerKater

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18549 on: September 11, 2017, 09:54:56 AM »
I was talking to my coworker this morning about which credit cards we like best (they like to travel hack) and I got this advice:

"You shouldn't pay your credit cards off in full each month. The credit card companies won't like you"


?

I I don't give a rats ass if the credit card companies like me.

I've had a card canceled, and when I called to ask why they literally told me "in 15 years you never made an interest payment"

But they literally get a transaction fee plus a percentage of the sale every time you use it which is completely separate from the interest you would pay them, so they still make money off you.  Unless they have a limit on the number of accounts they are allowed to have and needed to clear out some accounts to make room for better accounts (ie people who pay interest) it doesn't even make sense for them to cancel you.

I seem to remember that I read somewhere (probably here in this forum...) that someone who always pays his credit card bill on time is actually the better customer (on a risk adjusted basis) for the credit card company. Because the company makes steady income from him and there is no risk that he may default on his debt (because, essentially, he has none). Or am I imagining that?