Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 6416686 times)

JLee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18350 on: August 05, 2017, 01:52:07 AM »
You guys have me doing the math now for if I worked til 65 doing absolutely nothing other than maxing tax-advantaged accounts.

...

Over $4mil inflation-adjusted by the time I turn 65.

Damn.

Roe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18351 on: August 05, 2017, 05:25:01 AM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

I googled it. You buy something and pay later in four equal instalments. It seems heavily geared towards women buying clothes. Their front page has a link to their commitment to supporting responsible spending. LOLOLOLOLOL.

My former colleague was really into this. She would make a big deal out of paying something off because "now I can buy something else"!

"It's great when you want to buy something expensive but can't afford it all in one go."

(I didn't tell her that if she can't afford it all in one go, she just can't afford it.)

She ran into a few complications, of course.

Bought a bra through Afterpay. It didn't fit so they told her to return it to a store. The store only issues credits, not refunds, so she ended with no bra and still had to pay Afterpay.

She couldn't afford a BRA? Someone holding down a job didn't have enough money to buy a bra?

My poor mind. That bra better be one of VS bejeweled ones.
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kayvent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18352 on: August 05, 2017, 07:59:39 AM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

I googled it. You buy something and pay later in four equal instalments. It seems heavily geared towards women buying clothes. Their front page has a link to their commitment to supporting responsible spending. LOLOLOLOLOL.

My former colleague was really into this. She would make a big deal out of paying something off because "now I can buy something else"!

"It's great when you want to buy something expensive but can't afford it all in one go."

(I didn't tell her that if she can't afford it all in one go, she just can't afford it.)

She ran into a few complications, of course.

Bought a bra through Afterpay. It didn't fit so they told her to return it to a store. The store only issues credits, not refunds, so she ended with no bra and still had to pay Afterpay.

She couldn't afford a BRA? Someone holding down a job didn't have enough money to buy a bra?

My poor mind. That bra better be one of VS bejeweled ones.

Generally there's roughly a linear correlation between bra durability and bra price. So one can get 10$-20$ bras often or get 40$-80$ bras less often. My opinion is that either a woman shouldn't wear a bra or should wear a comfortable bra appropriate for their day's activities. The middle ground, which many American women put themselves, where they buy bras that are cheap and too small and don't support their racks, is sadly horrible in every aspect.

I digress. I am going to guess their co-worker brought a variety of cloths on after pay and the bra was one of them. Or perhaps they are so on the trend of doing this that they don't think second of it. After pay isn't much different than buying something on your credit card because the debit account is empty.

nnls

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18353 on: August 05, 2017, 05:04:11 PM »
Coworker purchased a new skirt for work. It's a corporate style so unlikely to be worn elsewhere. She paid for it using afterpay.  But then she is anything but mustachian so not surprising.
What is Afterpay? I'm not familiar with the term.

I googled it. You buy something and pay later in four equal instalments. It seems heavily geared towards women buying clothes. Their front page has a link to their commitment to supporting responsible spending. LOLOLOLOLOL.

My former colleague was really into this. She would make a big deal out of paying something off because "now I can buy something else"!

"It's great when you want to buy something expensive but can't afford it all in one go."

(I didn't tell her that if she can't afford it all in one go, she just can't afford it.)

She ran into a few complications, of course.

Bought a bra through Afterpay. It didn't fit so they told her to return it to a store. The store only issues credits, not refunds, so she ended with no bra and still had to pay Afterpay.

She couldn't afford a BRA? Someone holding down a job didn't have enough money to buy a bra?

My poor mind. That bra better be one of VS bejeweled ones.

Generally there's roughly a linear correlation between bra durability and bra price. So one can get 10$-20$ bras often or get 40$-80$ bras less often. My opinion is that either a woman shouldn't wear a bra or should wear a comfortable bra appropriate for their day's activities. The middle ground, which many American women put themselves, where they buy bras that are cheap and too small and don't support their racks, is sadly horrible in every aspect.

I digress. I am going to guess their co-worker brought a variety of cloths on after pay and the bra was one of them. Or perhaps they are so on the trend of doing this that they don't think second of it. After pay isn't much different than buying something on your credit card because the debit account is empty.
It could also have been a honey birdette (I  may be spelling that wrong) bra, I know they do afterpay as my friends use it, and those bras can cost upwards of $300 just cause they look pretty

aceyou

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18354 on: August 05, 2017, 08:10:46 PM »
Not overheard at work, but sad story overheard at Car Repair Shop.

Background... I went in for a small issue with my wife's Prius.  Woman next to to me, about 30, had small child sleeping on her.  I asked if she wanted water or anything, since she was obviously there a while and couldn't move.  She said she was getting a couple brakes replaced. 

Things get bad for her... Mechanic comes over (runs the shop, super honest and knowledgeable guy) to her with a very worried look on her face and gives her a list of about 10 things that absolutely must be replaced, because it's super dangerous to drive otherwise. Says $1500 to fix the ABSOLUTE must do's. 

Her: But I JUST had so-and-so fix almost all those things for me, I spent $500 on the fixes. 

Him: Let's take a look at the car, I want to show you the things that you said were replaced.  None of them are replaced...they go into the shop together. 

A bit later, they come out and she's super bummed, obviously does not have $1500 to her name.

Then she says to me, "man, and I just bought the car because when I went to a dealership, I thought to myself, yeah, I can afford those monthly payments".

The whole situation made me feel bad.  She seemed like a good person who cared a ton for her child, probably works very hard.  Just has no money sense. Saving would probably be difficult for her anyway, as her income probably isn't anything near the norm on these boards, but it's so much harder when you don't know how money works in the first place. 

She had no idea how to buy a car.  She had no idea she was getting ripped off from her previous "mechanic".  The best I could do was empathize with her and confirm to her that this mechanic is an honest, fair person, and that I'd trust him.  And to wish her the very best. 

I bet each day brings on stress-inducing money based decisions that are complete afterthoughts for me.  It made me appreciate how lucky I am that something like going to a mechanic is in no way a stressful endeavor.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18355 on: August 06, 2017, 03:17:34 AM »
I bet each day brings on stress-inducing money based decisions that are complete afterthoughts for me.  It made me appreciate how lucky I am that something like going to a mechanic is in no way a stressful endeavor.
Science has shown that poor people make so many bad decisions - including money - because they have to make to make so many money decisions.
Decision fatigue - you only have a certain amount of "willpower" and if that is used up because you have to think "do I have the money for that" even when just buying toilet paper, then you make bad decisions.

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18356 on: August 06, 2017, 03:40:53 AM »
I bet each day brings on stress-inducing money based decisions that are complete afterthoughts for me.  It made me appreciate how lucky I am that something like going to a mechanic is in no way a stressful endeavor.
Science has shown that poor people make so many bad decisions - including money - because they have to make to make so many money decisions.
Decision fatigue - you only have a certain amount of "willpower" and if that is used up because you have to think "do I have the money for that" even when just buying toilet paper, then you make bad decisions.
I was always wondering if that decision fatigued was real science or self help guru science. Do you know any sources?


Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18357 on: August 06, 2017, 03:53:22 AM »
I bet each day brings on stress-inducing money based decisions that are complete afterthoughts for me.  It made me appreciate how lucky I am that something like going to a mechanic is in no way a stressful endeavor.
Science has shown that poor people make so many bad decisions - including money - because they have to make to make so many money decisions.
Decision fatigue - you only have a certain amount of "willpower" and if that is used up because you have to think "do I have the money for that" even when just buying toilet paper, then you make bad decisions.

If you've never been poor, it's a feeling you can't relate to. My partner and I both grew up poor and struggled in young adulthood. We are both intelligent and frugal by nature and I had my whole "financial life plan" set out when I was 16 (basically: save up money, buy house, pay off house, retire young) and still we struggled making the right decisions. They were mostly small-scale bad decisions, but bad decisions nonetheless.

I remember being about 20 and working a lot of hours in an awful office job. For lunch, I would almost always eat out because I wanted to get out of that horrible building for a while. Because I only had half an hour, fast food restaurants were the only option. Now, if you buy a large menu, you eat the burger or chicken wings and the fries rightaway, but you can save the 'healthy' sides like salad or corn on the cob for dinner. Your drink is so large you can take it back to work and you don't have to buy something to drink in the afternoon. It almost seems efficient. When you finally get home you eat the leftovers and maybe a sandwich or some instant mac and cheese and you can go to bed.

Of course it would be so much better to prepare lunch and dinner ahead. It really doesn't cost that much time and it's so much healthier and cheaper. I knew that, and sometimes I would try to cook ahead for a few days during the weekend, but I would relapse after a few days. It was so hard to get my eating regime on track. It took years. When you work so hard for so little money and you hate it that much, it just consumes the will to do anything else. I was actually good with coupons and didn't buy anything that I could get for free in the office, so I felt my fast food habit wasn't that bad.

Now we're "rich" - in a situation where we don't have to stress about paying bills and we don't have to work until we cry from exhaustion - it's so much easier. We still make decisions about money (do we put this money in our savings account, in our investment account or do we overpay on the mortgage?) but it's so much easier because the basics are taken care of. The mortgage is paid, the landlord won't kick us out, there's food on the table and money for unexpected bills. When I look back at my young adulthood, the two most defining words are exhaustion and stress.

Roe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18358 on: August 06, 2017, 04:48:36 AM »
I bet each day brings on stress-inducing money based decisions that are complete afterthoughts for me.  It made me appreciate how lucky I am that something like going to a mechanic is in no way a stressful endeavor.
Science has shown that poor people make so many bad decisions - including money - because they have to make to make so many money decisions.
Decision fatigue - you only have a certain amount of "willpower" and if that is used up because you have to think "do I have the money for that" even when just buying toilet paper, then you make bad decisions.
I was always wondering if that decision fatigued was real science or self help guru science. Do you know any sources?

I saw a talk about that on youtube a while back, I think this might be the study:

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/341/6149/976

In the talk they mentioned being in non-temporary poverty is equal to loosing X amount of IQ points. I don't remember how many, but it was significant. It's not due to bad nutrition etc, but due to the amounts of decision that Lennstar refers to.

Don't remember if it was the same talk, but I also listened to someone describing a test with base pay in the 70s. When people knew they would get enough money to get buy, on average they started making more sensible decisions. Taking time with their kids home work, doctor visits went down etc. It sounded so amazing i decided against checking up if it was true or not. I really want it to be true.

Beans&rice, my love!

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18359 on: August 07, 2017, 05:25:17 AM »
Today I heard a well paid colleague say that another well paid colleague used to own a boat. But when he calculated how much the boat was used, compared to what it costs to have it, he got rid of the boat. He just wasn't able to justify the cost with the relative little use. So even people who earn a shitload of money can get sensible.

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18360 on: August 07, 2017, 06:15:29 AM »
I guess this counts as overheard at a friend's work.

Friend is a car salesman at a pretty large dealership. The stuff he told me is crazy.

One woman came in with a 2011 Nissan Rogue (I think) with 97k miles that has transmission problems. She wanted to trade it in because of the problems.

She owed $22k on it. On a car worth like $4k. The dealership couldn't get her another car.

People coming in wanting a truck with a large bed and all the works. He asks what they tow and how often. Nothing, never. They just want a big truck. Sticker shock makes them consider a smaller truck...

People coming in with literally 300 credit scores.

Someone putting down $8500 to LEASE a car. She wanted her payments under $160. Wtf?

jinga nation

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18361 on: August 07, 2017, 07:43:47 AM »
I work in a DoD IT environment. 75%+ of my co-workers are prior military (4-22 years service). Everyone on my team makes over $85k, some even have retirement pay plus fully paid healthcare. All of them hated their time in the military, every single one, hear this every happy hour or team lunch. Yet none, zero, want to invest in 529 plans or Florida Prepaid tuition. They say their kids will join the military if they don't get academic/athletic college scholarships. Come raise time, it's time for a fully-loaded truck, RV, timeshare condo, larger house, etc.

WTF would you send your kids down a path that you hated? I can see people joining the military as their parents never had the money, and the service and GI Bill was a viable option. But no one wants to break the cycle. Yes, keep on Bitching, Moaning, Whining about it.

It's not an earning problem, dimwits. It's a spending problem.
I'm keeping calm and stashing away.
Signature worthless. I'm worth more dead than alive. Wife and kids will collect. Or Uncle Sam will, you can rely on Him.

Roe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18362 on: August 07, 2017, 11:15:24 AM »
I work in a DoD IT environment. 75%+ of my co-workers are prior military (4-22 years service). Everyone on my team makes over $85k, some even have retirement pay plus fully paid healthcare. All of them hated their time in the military, every single one, hear this every happy hour or team lunch. Yet none, zero, want to invest in 529 plans or Florida Prepaid tuition. They say their kids will join the military if they don't get academic/athletic college scholarships. Come raise time, it's time for a fully-loaded truck, RV, timeshare condo, larger house, etc.

WTF would you send your kids down a path that you hated? I can see people joining the military as their parents never had the money, and the service and GI Bill was a viable option. But no one wants to break the cycle. Yes, keep on Bitching, Moaning, Whining about it.

It's not an earning problem, dimwits. It's a spending problem.
I'm keeping calm and stashing away.

I see what you did there.
Beans&rice, my love!

jinga nation

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18363 on: August 07, 2017, 12:09:28 PM »
I work in a DoD IT environment. 75%+ of my co-workers are prior military (4-22 years service). Everyone on my team makes over $85k, some even have retirement pay plus fully paid healthcare. All of them hated their time in the military, every single one, hear this every happy hour or team lunch. Yet none, zero, want to invest in 529 plans or Florida Prepaid tuition. They say their kids will join the military if they don't get academic/athletic college scholarships. Come raise time, it's time for a fully-loaded truck, RV, timeshare condo, larger house, etc.

WTF would you send your kids down a path that you hated? I can see people joining the military as their parents never had the money, and the service and GI Bill was a viable option. But no one wants to break the cycle. Yes, keep on Bitching, Moaning, Whining about it.

It's not an earning problem, dimwits. It's a spending problem.
I'm keeping calm and stashing away.

I see what you did there.
Then there's More Boondoggles by inept management to tech conferences.
Always Uttering Drivel Incessantly.
Signature worthless. I'm worth more dead than alive. Wife and kids will collect. Or Uncle Sam will, you can rely on Him.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18364 on: August 07, 2017, 03:59:44 PM »
Today I heard a well paid colleague say that another well paid colleague used to own a boat. But when he calculated how much the boat was used, compared to what it costs to have it, he got rid of the boat. He just wasn't able to justify the cost with the relative little use. So even people who earn a shitload of money can get sensible.
You seem to have lost your way.  Such success stories belong in the anti-antimustachian "overheard at work" thread. :)

Kansaslover5

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18365 on: August 07, 2017, 07:59:36 PM »
I work in a DoD IT environment. 75%+ of my co-workers are prior military (4-22 years service). Everyone on my team makes over $85k, some even have retirement pay plus fully paid healthcare. All of them hated their time in the military, every single one, hear this every happy hour or team lunch. Yet none, zero, want to invest in 529 plans or Florida Prepaid tuition. They say their kids will join the military if they don't get academic/athletic college scholarships. Come raise time, it's time for a fully-loaded truck, RV, timeshare condo, larger house, etc.

WTF would you send your kids down a path that you hated? I can see people joining the military as their parents never had the money, and the service and GI Bill was a viable option. But no one wants to break the cycle. Yes, keep on Bitching, Moaning, Whining about it.

It's not an earning problem, dimwits. It's a spending problem.
I'm keeping calm and stashing away.

Served 21 years and did 6 combat deployments. Completed my degree while on active duty, working full-time and raising a family. Loved every minute of it and you'll never hear me bitch. I have many good friends of whom I can say the same. Please don't let those coworkers color your impression of all vets. Two of my children are in college on academic scholarships already.

theadvicist

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18366 on: August 08, 2017, 05:48:46 AM »

I once asked a family member why they only lease instead of buy. Their answer was that if they planned to purchase a new car every 3 years (or whatever the term of the lease is), leasing is clearly the better option.

Why anyone would buy a new car that often is beyond me.

Actual conversation with a family member:

Me: "How's the new car?" [leased BMW 5 series]
Relative: "Great! And really, when you think about it, leasing is the cheapest way to have a car"
Me: "Well, no, not really"
Relative: "Well, I mean, it depends how you work it out"
Me: "I use maths. How do you work it out?"
Relative: "......."

jinga nation

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18367 on: August 08, 2017, 06:28:37 AM »
I work in a DoD IT environment. 75%+ of my co-workers are prior military (4-22 years service). Everyone on my team makes over $85k, some even have retirement pay plus fully paid healthcare. All of them hated their time in the military, every single one, hear this every happy hour or team lunch. Yet none, zero, want to invest in 529 plans or Florida Prepaid tuition. They say their kids will join the military if they don't get academic/athletic college scholarships. Come raise time, it's time for a fully-loaded truck, RV, timeshare condo, larger house, etc.

WTF would you send your kids down a path that you hated? I can see people joining the military as their parents never had the money, and the service and GI Bill was a viable option. But no one wants to break the cycle. Yes, keep on Bitching, Moaning, Whining about it.

It's not an earning problem, dimwits. It's a spending problem.
I'm keeping calm and stashing away.

Served 21 years and did 6 combat deployments. Completed my degree while on active duty, working full-time and raising a family. Loved every minute of it and you'll never hear me bitch. I have many good friends of whom I can say the same. Please don't let those coworkers color your impression of all vets. Two of my children are in college on academic scholarships already.

I would say you are the exception, not the norm. But I'll go a step further with the compliment and call you a statistical outlier. That's what most of us are, when compared to the general population, that's why we're on this forum. I only know one other like you, one of my previous bosses, a retired AF vet, engineer, budding businessman.
Signature worthless. I'm worth more dead than alive. Wife and kids will collect. Or Uncle Sam will, you can rely on Him.

boyerbt

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18368 on: August 08, 2017, 06:36:29 AM »

I once asked a family member why they only lease instead of buy. Their answer was that if they planned to purchase a new car every 3 years (or whatever the term of the lease is), leasing is clearly the better option.

Why anyone would buy a new car that often is beyond me.

Actual conversation with a family member:

Me: "How's the new car?" [leased BMW 5 series]
Relative: "Great! And really, when you think about it, leasing is the cheapest way to have a car"
Me: "Well, no, not really"
Relative: "Well, I mean, it depends how you work it out"
Me: "I use maths. How do you work it out?"
Relative: "......."


That is great! Using: math? logic? common sense? Don't be ridiculous!
Act. Your. Wage.

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MsSnowBlack

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18369 on: August 08, 2017, 07:28:33 AM »
This just happened today. I need to rant.

I'm currently working and living at an offshore financial centre where individual tax is extremely low but cost of living is somewhat high. We had a lunch and learn today where I met 3 people from a different department. We started chatting about island life, travel, vacation and etc. One guy mentioned a former colleague called Bob who quitted the job last year and has been travelling the world since then. He currently stays in India since March become it costs close to nothing to live in that country. Another guy quickly jumped in and added that Bob was able to save $50k during his 2-year contract here. All 3 guys were saying what a miserable life he must be living in and it was impossible to save that much!  I just said sure he can, $50k is definitely doable. They all stared at me as if I'm an alien. One guy said no way, you need to live a life here. Another guy said that life is short, why would you want to save that much after all. And no matter how much you save, you still can't buy a property here or a place in London (where he comes from). The 3rd guy added that sure you can save a lot of money and may get hit by a bus as soon as you move back to London, so why save.

I was speechless. I know saving $50k in 2 years is doable and I can even show them the math but I just kept my mouth shut. According to them, Bob earned $74k per year. Based on my calc, he gets around $66k net, which is $5500 per month. 1bd rent+utility would cost him around $2000 per month. If he had a roommate, it would be even less. Another $500 for home cooked food, $200 for internet and cell. That leaves him $2800. Fun money and etc for another $300. He can save $2500 a month easily which is $60k for 2 years. Bob only saved $50k so the math certainly works out. By the way, I spent less in every category myself.

I earn a bit more than Bob did and my goal is to save $50k a year. I'm on my way to my goal as I was sitting at the lunch table with those guys. Like I said, I kept my mouth shut.
Your co-workers are idiots. Bob was definitely the smarter one. Are you on one of the British channel islands? Perhaps I should have a look at the jo postings for Guernsey or Jersey, two years in a job like that and I would be done in stead of the 5 years left in Belgium ...

Offshore islands are definitely places to go if you want to accelerate FI. I've spent $0 on entertainment and shopping so far cuz there is just nothing to buy. You would feel trapped and that's why lots of people fly out every once a while to breath.  Since I've already had a taste of this life, I want to try something different. Belgium sounds great. Maybe we can swap jobs? LOL

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18370 on: August 08, 2017, 09:10:29 AM »
This just happened today. I need to rant.

I'm currently working and living at an offshore financial centre where individual tax is extremely low but cost of living is somewhat high. We had a lunch and learn today where I met 3 people from a different department. We started chatting about island life, travel, vacation and etc. One guy mentioned a former colleague called Bob who quitted the job last year and has been travelling the world since then. He currently stays in India since March become it costs close to nothing to live in that country. Another guy quickly jumped in and added that Bob was able to save $50k during his 2-year contract here. All 3 guys were saying what a miserable life he must be living in and it was impossible to save that much!  I just said sure he can, $50k is definitely doable. They all stared at me as if I'm an alien. One guy said no way, you need to live a life here. Another guy said that life is short, why would you want to save that much after all. And no matter how much you save, you still can't buy a property here or a place in London (where he comes from). The 3rd guy added that sure you can save a lot of money and may get hit by a bus as soon as you move back to London, so why save.

I was speechless. I know saving $50k in 2 years is doable and I can even show them the math but I just kept my mouth shut. According to them, Bob earned $74k per year. Based on my calc, he gets around $66k net, which is $5500 per month. 1bd rent+utility would cost him around $2000 per month. If he had a roommate, it would be even less. Another $500 for home cooked food, $200 for internet and cell. That leaves him $2800. Fun money and etc for another $300. He can save $2500 a month easily which is $60k for 2 years. Bob only saved $50k so the math certainly works out. By the way, I spent less in every category myself.

I earn a bit more than Bob did and my goal is to save $50k a year. I'm on my way to my goal as I was sitting at the lunch table with those guys. Like I said, I kept my mouth shut.
Your co-workers are idiots. Bob was definitely the smarter one. Are you on one of the British channel islands? Perhaps I should have a look at the jo postings for Guernsey or Jersey, two years in a job like that and I would be done in stead of the 5 years left in Belgium ...

Offshore islands are definitely places to go if you want to accelerate FI. I've spent $0 on entertainment and shopping so far cuz there is just nothing to buy. You would feel trapped and that's why lots of people fly out every once a while to breath.  Since I've already had a taste of this life, I want to try something different. Belgium sounds great. Maybe we can swap jobs? LOL
At a previous job, some foreign assignments could be particularly lucrative--up to a 65% uplift in salary for the duration, plus tax assistance (employer pays the tax on the uplift), plus the company provides housing, transportation, etc for the duration.  IOW, you could be banking >100% of your (normal) salary without too much trouble.  I wanted one of those assignments, but sadly the scheduling didn't work out.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18371 on: August 08, 2017, 09:15:55 AM »
IOW, you could be banking >100% of your (normal) salary without too much trouble.

That's a negative time to retirement according to the shockingly simple math!

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18372 on: August 08, 2017, 09:51:11 AM »
IOW, you could be banking >100% of your (normal) salary without too much trouble.

That's a negative time to retirement according to the shockingly simple math!
(I know what you meant, I’m being pedantic)

Except that you’re not counting the other perks as part of the salary—which is why he said “normal” salary. Meaning you can’t have negative retirement time because it is literally impossible to save 100% of the total income (although not salary) since part of it comes in other perks, such as housing—that cannot be “saved”.

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18373 on: August 08, 2017, 09:59:57 AM »
IOW, you could be banking >100% of your (normal) salary without too much trouble.

That's a negative time to retirement according to the shockingly simple math!

True, though for that math to be accurate in this scenario you should probably estimate what your expenses would be without employer subsidizing and assign a monetary value as additional income to employer-paid benefits. (I see mtn also already commented on this)

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18374 on: August 08, 2017, 10:01:37 AM »
Not overheard at work, but sad story overheard at Car Repair Shop.

Background... I went in for a small issue with my wife's Prius.  Woman next to to me, about 30, had small child sleeping on her.  I asked if she wanted water or anything, since she was obviously there a while and couldn't move.  She said she was getting a couple brakes replaced. 

Things get bad for her... Mechanic comes over (runs the shop, super honest and knowledgeable guy) to her with a very worried look on her face and gives her a list of about 10 things that absolutely must be replaced, because it's super dangerous to drive otherwise. Says $1500 to fix the ABSOLUTE must do's. 

Her: But I JUST had so-and-so fix almost all those things for me, I spent $500 on the fixes. 

Him: Let's take a look at the car, I want to show you the things that you said were replaced.  None of them are replaced...they go into the shop together. 

A bit later, they come out and she's super bummed, obviously does not have $1500 to her name.

Then she says to me, "man, and I just bought the car because when I went to a dealership, I thought to myself, yeah, I can afford those monthly payments".

The whole situation made me feel bad.  She seemed like a good person who cared a ton for her child, probably works very hard.  Just has no money sense. Saving would probably be difficult for her anyway, as her income probably isn't anything near the norm on these boards, but it's so much harder when you don't know how money works in the first place. 

She had no idea how to buy a car.  She had no idea she was getting ripped off from her previous "mechanic".  The best I could do was empathize with her and confirm to her that this mechanic is an honest, fair person, and that I'd trust him.  And to wish her the very best. 

I bet each day brings on stress-inducing money based decisions that are complete afterthoughts for me.  It made me appreciate how lucky I am that something like going to a mechanic is in no way a stressful endeavor.

This sucks, and reminds me of when I was a teen and my parents were divorcing.  My mom took the car in for service.  Then the mechanic came out and said "I also had to replace your brake pads, they were worn out.  That's an extra $96."  (or whatever).

My  mom, no dummy (and my dad was an auto mechanic) says "I want to see the old brake pads."  They couldn't find them!  Yeah, she didn't pay for the brake pads.

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18375 on: August 08, 2017, 10:40:06 AM »
IOW, you could be banking >100% of your (normal) salary without too much trouble.

That's a negative time to retirement according to the shockingly simple math!
(I know what you meant, I’m being pedantic)

Except that you’re not counting the other perks as part of the salary—which is why he said “normal” salary. Meaning you can’t have negative retirement time because it is literally impossible to save 100% of the total income (although not salary) since part of it comes in other perks, such as housing—that cannot be “saved”.
(I know what you meant, I’m being pedantic)

The shockingly easy math does not work out here, because it simplifies
Income: I
Savings Rate: s
Retirement Budget: RB=(1-s) * I

So s>1 would lead to a negative retirement budget, and that's obviously a wrong conclusion...

Pedant out.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 02:26:56 PM by Feivel2000 »


RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18376 on: August 08, 2017, 12:00:30 PM »
Haha god I'm never inviting you guys to a party ;-P

mustachemug

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18377 on: August 08, 2017, 01:24:59 PM »
Had a former coworker get fired because she would regularly call into work saying she didn't have money for bus fare to get to work...it's £2 to get the bus. And, she only lived about 2 miles away so she could have easily walked. This happened about once a week. Meanwhile, she booked several international holidays, smokes (both tobacco and weed) every night, lives at the pub, and gave over £2,000 to a political candidate she liked. She told one of our clients in a meeting that someone owed her £5 and if they didn't pay her back she wouldn't be able to eat this week.

Roe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18378 on: August 08, 2017, 02:21:29 PM »
Had a former coworker get fired because she would regularly call into work saying she didn't have money for bus fare to get to work...it's £2 to get the bus. And, she only lived about 2 miles away so she could have easily walked. This happened about once a week. Meanwhile, she booked several international holidays, smokes (both tobacco and weed) every night, lives at the pub, and gave over £2,000 to a political candidate she liked. She told one of our clients in a meeting that someone owed her £5 and if they didn't pay her back she wouldn't be able to eat this week.

Bwahaha, thats awesome!


I mean, it saddens me to hear about a young womans financial struggles.
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mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18379 on: August 08, 2017, 03:16:28 PM »
A colleague inadvertently shed some light on her spending habits this week.

I knew she had held a more senior role at a different company before being made redundant. She just revealed that she took a 50 per cent pay cut when she joined our company (in her 60s in a shrinking industry - she didn't have a lot of choice).

I would guess she has dropped from $160k to $80k, but she's still spending like she's on $160k.

A $700 dress here, $900 boots there, expensive restaurants... all the while joking about how her mortgage pay-off strategy is to ignore it.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 09:59:35 PM by mustachepungoeshere »

GoConfidently

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18380 on: August 08, 2017, 06:40:45 PM »
I have a newish boss who has mentioned many times that he has a summer home in Colorado (we're in Texas). On a recent longish car ride, he asked about my next vacation. I told him I would be going to Boulder to visit a friend who just moved there. Note that she has a place to live where I can crash. He was excited - you should go to my summer house! It's amazing and you'll love it! (This was not the first offer and his home isn't in Boulder and wtf would two people do with a 12 person house). So I asked about it- what made you decide on a summer home in CO? His reply was that he got an inheritance of 75k and decided to buy a home that sleeps TWELVE with another couple. They backed out. He got another partner, who backed out less than six months later. So now he pays two mortgages and lends out this summer home to whoever wants it, free of charge. It's generous, but excessive. This from a guy who has said that he'll never be able to retire because of the cost of kids, and who goes to CO maybe four times a year, yet still carries two mortgages. He drives a car that was gifted to him. He commuted 150+ miles each way every week and rented an apartment in the work city for NINE YEARS for a job. He's thinking of getting a management company to rent it so it can pay for itself. Choices, man. Choices. Jesus, how much more money can a person waste?!?! He's going to be flabbergasted when I leave my job for one with fewer work days for less pay because I don't have the STUFF he has.

mamagoose

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18381 on: August 08, 2017, 08:09:03 PM »
I work in a DoD IT environment. 75%+ of my co-workers are prior military (4-22 years service). Everyone on my team makes over $85k, some even have retirement pay plus fully paid healthcare. All of them hated their time in the military, every single one, hear this every happy hour or team lunch. Yet none, zero, want to invest in 529 plans or Florida Prepaid tuition. They say their kids will join the military if they don't get academic/athletic college scholarships. Come raise time, it's time for a fully-loaded truck, RV, timeshare condo, larger house, etc.

WTF would you send your kids down a path that you hated? I can see people joining the military as their parents never had the money, and the service and GI Bill was a viable option. But no one wants to break the cycle. Yes, keep on Bitching, Moaning, Whining about it.

It's not an earning problem, dimwits. It's a spending problem.
I'm keeping calm and stashing away.

Served 21 years and did 6 combat deployments. Completed my degree while on active duty, working full-time and raising a family. Loved every minute of it and you'll never hear me bitch. I have many good friends of whom I can say the same. Please don't let those coworkers color your impression of all vets. Two of my children are in college on academic scholarships already.

Thank you for your service :)
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18382 on: August 11, 2017, 07:30:36 AM »
A few of us were comparing 401k plans/matches from previous employers when this gem came up.

-Boss: I had a great match at my first employer (a big 4 accounting firm) but missed out on the whole match.
-Co-worker: What was the match?
-Boss: 100% match up to 6% (I might be messing that up slightly).
-Me: Wait, you turned down a guaranteed 100% ROI??
-Boss: Yeah well, there were bills to pay.

Couldn't manage to save/invest 6% of salary at a BIG FOUR firm.  Could only "afford" some percentage less than that.

This is the same boss who is leasing two vehicles for his family at $700+/month - minivan for mom/kids and a sedan (Camry? I forget) for him.  His justification is that Toyota Care covers the first two years of the lease, meaning he only has to pay for one year of maintenance before it's time for the next lease.
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mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18383 on: August 11, 2017, 07:45:21 AM »

This is the same boss who is leasing two vehicles for his family at $700+/month - minivan for mom/kids and a sedan (Camry? I forget) for him.  His justification is that Toyota Care covers the first two years of the lease, meaning he only has to pay for one year of maintenance before it's time for the next lease.

That makes sense. Brand new Toyota's under warranty are extremely expensive to maintain.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18384 on: August 11, 2017, 07:59:27 AM »

This is the same boss who is leasing two vehicles for his family at $700+/month - minivan for mom/kids and a sedan (Camry? I forget) for him.  His justification is that Toyota Care covers the first two years of the lease, meaning he only has to pay for one year of maintenance before it's time for the next lease.

That makes sense. Brand new Toyota's under warranty are extremely expensive to maintain.

Lol

Erma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18385 on: August 11, 2017, 01:32:26 PM »
We have a new young co-worker.
Some days ago she asked me if I knew the brand of her bag.
Me: No (I don't care and my bag was a free)
Her: It is this very expensive Swiss brand.
Me: I have never heard of them.
Her: Really?
Me: ...

Later I googled and found the price of her bag is almost 700 CHF. That's completely insane. Interestingly she also buys a Starbucks drink every day, but is then telling us thst she should save as she is starting some more educaton and will work less then.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18386 on: August 11, 2017, 03:56:22 PM »
Who asks "do you know the brand of my bag"?  That is a weird question unless you bought it at a thrift store and were trying to actually figure it out.

What is the point of that question beyond "look at me" and "compliment me"..??!  Hah,  I would likely then start suggesting that she start to get gel nails done or something, and that they would look so beautiful against her bag.....    (barf).

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18387 on: August 11, 2017, 06:29:05 PM »
Who asks "do you know the brand of my bag"?  That is a weird question unless you bought it at a thrift store and were trying to actually figure it out.

What is the point of that question beyond "look at me" and "compliment me"..??!  Hah,  I would likely then start suggesting that she start to get gel nails done or something, and that they would look so beautiful against her bag.....    (barf).

Sometimes my wife will say she likes a certain brand of dog.  Breed, I say?  No, brand. (but yes she means breed)

fruitfly

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18388 on: August 11, 2017, 08:30:31 PM »
(Backstory: I'm a clotheshorse. I don't buy new clothes as a policy (except lingerie) - everything I wear is vintage or secondhand. This is known around the office)

I was trying to fix a computer but got sucked into talking about these new shoes the co-worker had bought. They were cute - gold wedges - but I didn't think especially amazing, but apparently they are Kate Spade. She was pleased she's bought them on "sale" for $200. I wasn't going to say ANYTHING (I mean, I don't care what she spends her money on) but I got sucked in.

CW#1: (turns to me) "She just doesn't have enough time to shop for something vintage like you would."
Me: "Well, if she didn't have to work the hours to pay for $200 shoes, she would have the time."

marty998

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18389 on: August 11, 2017, 11:38:08 PM »
Who asks "do you know the brand of my bag"?  That is a weird question unless you bought it at a thrift store and were trying to actually figure it out.

What is the point of that question beyond "look at me" and "compliment me"..??!  Hah,  I would likely then start suggesting that she start to get gel nails done or something, and that they would look so beautiful against her bag.....    (barf).

Sometimes my wife will say she likes a certain brand of dog.  Breed, I say?  No, brand. (but yes she means breed)

Wait till the corporations really start to take over and we start talking about certain brands of human. Won't be long now...

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18390 on: August 13, 2017, 07:06:23 AM »
This just happened today. I need to rant.

I'm currently working and living at an offshore financial centre where individual tax is extremely low but cost of living is somewhat high. We had a lunch and learn today where I met 3 people from a different department. We started chatting about island life, travel, vacation and etc. One guy mentioned a former colleague called Bob who quitted the job last year and has been travelling the world since then. He currently stays in India since March become it costs close to nothing to live in that country. Another guy quickly jumped in and added that Bob was able to save $50k during his 2-year contract here. All 3 guys were saying what a miserable life he must be living in and it was impossible to save that much!  I just said sure he can, $50k is definitely doable. They all stared at me as if I'm an alien. One guy said no way, you need to live a life here. Another guy said that life is short, why would you want to save that much after all. And no matter how much you save, you still can't buy a property here or a place in London (where he comes from). The 3rd guy added that sure you can save a lot of money and may get hit by a bus as soon as you move back to London, so why save.

I was speechless. I know saving $50k in 2 years is doable and I can even show them the math but I just kept my mouth shut. According to them, Bob earned $74k per year. Based on my calc, he gets around $66k net, which is $5500 per month. 1bd rent+utility would cost him around $2000 per month. If he had a roommate, it would be even less. Another $500 for home cooked food, $200 for internet and cell. That leaves him $2800. Fun money and etc for another $300. He can save $2500 a month easily which is $60k for 2 years. Bob only saved $50k so the math certainly works out. By the way, I spent less in every category myself.

I earn a bit more than Bob did and my goal is to save $50k a year. I'm on my way to my goal as I was sitting at the lunch table with those guys. Like I said, I kept my mouth shut.
Your co-workers are idiots. Bob was definitely the smarter one. Are you on one of the British channel islands? Perhaps I should have a look at the jo postings for Guernsey or Jersey, two years in a job like that and I would be done in stead of the 5 years left in Belgium ...

Offshore islands are definitely places to go if you want to accelerate FI. I've spent $0 on entertainment and shopping so far cuz there is just nothing to buy. You would feel trapped and that's why lots of people fly out every once a while to breath.  Since I've already had a taste of this life, I want to try something different. Belgium sounds great. Maybe we can swap jobs? LOL
You would not want that! My current job is boring as hell. I worked 8 years back office for the financial markets and I guess I am one of those weird guys who actually find Currency options or swations really interesting and downright fun. But Brussels as a finance centre is dead so now out of the sector completely and well, if you are used to working on the ritme of the market floor everything else is soooo boring ...
Working on the islands currently doesn't make logistical sense .There is the wife and the pet pigs (and the fact the wife can not lift the feedbags for the pet pigs ...)
http://financialfreedomsloth.com/

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SquirrelStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18391 on: August 13, 2017, 07:06:50 AM »
(Backstory: I'm a clotheshorse. I don't buy new clothes as a policy (except lingerie) - everything I wear is vintage or secondhand. This is known around the office)

I was trying to fix a computer but got sucked into talking about these new shoes the co-worker had bought. They were cute - gold wedges - but I didn't think especially amazing, but apparently they are Kate Spade. She was pleased she's bought them on "sale" for $200. I wasn't going to say ANYTHING (I mean, I don't care what she spends her money on) but I got sucked in.

CW#1: (turns to me) "She just doesn't have enough time to shop for something vintage like you would."
Me: "Well, if she didn't have to work the hours to pay for $200 shoes, she would have the time."

Please tell me you got to walk off nonchalantly after that stellar burn!

Kansaslover5

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18392 on: August 13, 2017, 04:15:54 PM »
A 70-year-old man still works at my plant even though he could have retired years ago. Has a pension and a 401k but won't quit because his ex-wife will get half his pension. Half of his pension is WAY more than anyone on this forum needs to FIRE -- not to mention the 401k, a paid off mortgage etc. I thought how sad that someone is so bitter that they'd rather work until they die than retire. Seems absolutely insane to me.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18393 on: August 13, 2017, 05:39:03 PM »
Two of my colleagues have complained to me about repeatedly having to buy things they know they own, because they find the originals in their cluttered homes.

Both said they would own a lifetime supply of wrapping paper but have no idea where it is, so just buy more.

One said she stocks up on greeting cards from a particular boutique, because she can't get this brand anywhere else, but then when a friend's birthday rolls around she goes through her stash and there's "nothing quite right" so she buys a new card anyway. But the cards she hoards are $15 each! Then she said, "I should just give them to charity. Or maybe I should bring them in here, maybe someone would use them."

I'm torn between, What a waste of money and Oooh, free stationery...

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18394 on: August 13, 2017, 06:54:13 PM »
A 70-year-old man still works at my plant even though he could have retired years ago. Has a pension and a 401k but won't quit because his ex-wife will get half his pension. Half of his pension is WAY more than anyone on this forum needs to FIRE -- not to mention the 401k, a paid off mortgage etc. I thought how sad that someone is so bitter that they'd rather work until they die than retire. Seems absolutely insane to me.
Maybe he's hoping that his ex will die first...

markbike528CBX

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18395 on: August 13, 2017, 07:08:12 PM »
A 70-year-old man still works at my plant even though he could have retired years ago. Has a pension and a 401k but won't quit because his ex-wife will get half his pension. Half of his pension is WAY more than anyone on this forum needs to FIRE -- not to mention the 401k, a paid off mortgage etc. I thought how sad that someone is so bitter that they'd rather work until they die than retire. Seems absolutely insane to me.
Maybe he's hoping that his ex will die first...

Never underestimate the stupidity caused by revenge (actual or perceived).  BIL and exSIL situation, 3? years after the divorce finalized .

kayvent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18396 on: August 13, 2017, 09:10:24 PM »
A 70-year-old man still works at my plant even though he could have retired years ago. Has a pension and a 401k but won't quit because his ex-wife will get half his pension. Half of his pension is WAY more than anyone on this forum needs to FIRE -- not to mention the 401k, a paid off mortgage etc. I thought how sad that someone is so bitter that they'd rather work until they die than retire. Seems absolutely insane to me.
Maybe he's hoping that his ex will die first...

In the USA, generally are divorce settlements like this terminated when the ex spouse remarries or dies?

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18397 on: August 14, 2017, 12:11:20 AM »
A 70-year-old man still works at my plant even though he could have retired years ago. Has a pension and a 401k but won't quit because his ex-wife will get half his pension. Half of his pension is WAY more than anyone on this forum needs to FIRE -- not to mention the 401k, a paid off mortgage etc. I thought how sad that someone is so bitter that they'd rather work until they die than retire. Seems absolutely insane to me.

Which is maybe why judges in this country grant the ex spouse a portion of the pension from a certain age, not when the other one eventually decides to retire.

My dad is one of those bitter guys that otherwise would be capable of doing something like that. My mum always worked and earned more than he did, but legally back in the days married women didn't pay into company pension schemes and private pension schemes were almost unheard of. She married at 20 and didn't start paying into a pension scheme again until she was 40. ( and no matter how much my dad complains about my mum 'stealing' his pension, you won't hear him complain about how she paid their mortgage all those years when he was un- or underemployed)

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18398 on: August 14, 2017, 12:14:33 AM »
A 70-year-old man still works at my plant even though he could have retired years ago. Has a pension and a 401k but won't quit because his ex-wife will get half his pension. Half of his pension is WAY more than anyone on this forum needs to FIRE -- not to mention the 401k, a paid off mortgage etc. I thought how sad that someone is so bitter that they'd rather work until they die than retire. Seems absolutely insane to me.

Which is maybe why judges in this country grant the ex spouse a portion of the pension from a certain age, not when the other one eventually decides to retire.

My dad is one of those bitter guys that otherwise would be capable of doing something like that. My mum always worked and earned more than he did, but legally back in the days married women didn't pay into company pension schemes and private pension schemes were almost unheard of. She married at 20 and didn't start paying into a pension scheme again until she was 40. ( and no matter how much my dad complains about my mum 'stealing' his pension, you won't hear him complain about how she paid their mortgage all those years when he was un- or underemployed)

:o

Are your parents still together?

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18399 on: August 14, 2017, 12:24:41 AM »
A 70-year-old man still works at my plant even though he could have retired years ago. Has a pension and a 401k but won't quit because his ex-wife will get half his pension. Half of his pension is WAY more than anyone on this forum needs to FIRE -- not to mention the 401k, a paid off mortgage etc. I thought how sad that someone is so bitter that they'd rather work until they die than retire. Seems absolutely insane to me.

Which is maybe why judges in this country grant the ex spouse a portion of the pension from a certain age, not when the other one eventually decides to retire.

My dad is one of those bitter guys that otherwise would be capable of doing something like that. My mum always worked and earned more than he did, but legally back in the days married women didn't pay into company pension schemes and private pension schemes were almost unheard of. She married at 20 and didn't start paying into a pension scheme again until she was 40. ( and no matter how much my dad complains about my mum 'stealing' his pension, you won't hear him complain about how she paid their mortgage all those years when he was un- or underemployed)

:o

Are your parents still together?

No, they divorced some years ago, after being unhappily married for 30 years. Dividing the marital home, the pension and the furniture cost them 5 years and 50k. The kids were grown up and they didn't have real assets to divide.