Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 4774944 times)

Rural

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8700 on: June 11, 2015, 01:44:09 AM »
I have also read the entire thread.

Me too... hey has anyone else read this thread?  If so, please speak up, it might be your last chance


I see what you did there.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8701 on: June 11, 2015, 06:35:57 AM »
Anyone remember black boxes?

You mean orange boxes?

And yes, I have read the entire thread.
the new ones are red :P

SMP

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8702 on: June 11, 2015, 07:50:12 AM »
I have also read the entire thread.

Me too... hey has anyone else read this thread?  If so, please speak up, it might be your last chance

I have read this entire thread, too.
no one is useless - you can still be a bad example

Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8703 on: June 11, 2015, 08:20:33 AM »
I have also read the entire thread.

Me too... hey has anyone else read this thread?  If so, please speak up, it might be your last chance

I have read this entire thread, too.

How many have read this thread entirely while at work overhearing stupid stuff?

solon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8704 on: June 11, 2015, 08:34:52 AM »
I have also read the entire thread.

Me too... hey has anyone else read this thread?  If so, please speak up, it might be your last chance

I have read this entire thread, too.

How many have read this thread entirely while at work overhearing stupid stuff?

What? Are you suggesting people don't work when they're at work?

TexasStash

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8705 on: June 11, 2015, 08:51:13 AM »
I have also read the entire thread.

Me too... hey has anyone else read this thread?  If so, please speak up, it might be your last chance

I have read this entire thread, too.

How many have read this thread entirely while at work overhearing stupid stuff?

What? Are you suggesting people don't work when they're at work?

Blasphemy!

frooglepoodle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8706 on: June 11, 2015, 09:00:10 AM »
Hi all! I'm new here and I've got one from a past job that I haven't read yet (and I've read all 178 pages!).

CW was in her 30's with 3 kids and an unemployed husband, making around 40K a year without benefits in a HCOL area, and pretty open about money troubles (whole family in a one bedroom apartment, a few mentions of food stamps, etc). She was also really self conscious about her post-pregnancy figure, and had a friend of a friend who was a patient coordinator for a surgeon and was able to get her a "great price" of $5K on a tummy tuck. Somehow she was able to come up with the money to have it done. The icing on the cake, she wanted to lose more weight to get a better result and spent a ton of money on meal-replacement shakes to lose about 20 more pounds before the surgery.

Blew my mind.

arebelspy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8707 on: June 11, 2015, 09:59:12 AM »
Someone save a link to this page of the thread for a few months from now when someone says no one has read this whole thread!
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Elderwood17

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8708 on: June 11, 2015, 10:18:04 AM »
I think I read this entire thread while at work!

arebelspy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8709 on: June 11, 2015, 10:33:57 AM »
I think I read this entire thread while at work!

Overread at Work!
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Spawnstache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8710 on: June 11, 2015, 11:07:27 AM »
First post at last... Working my way through this awesome thread but got this gem at work today.

CW1 (mustachian-to-be) (to CW2): Spawnstache has some really god advice on how to save money and get rich
CW2: So, Spawnstache, what's the secret?
Spawnstache (very flattered):Well, you have to pay yourself first. Treat your savings like your bills.
CW2: And what about the fancy stuff you want to buy?
Spawnstache: Well, mostly you don't buy it...
CW2: I'm out...

gimp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8711 on: June 11, 2015, 11:09:21 AM »
This one's me:

Moved to SF. 15 minute commute turned into... well, 30, if I cheat by saying that I get to work on the bus to and from work, or an hour and a half if I don't.

If it wasn't for that bus with wifi, I probably wouldn't have done it.

On the plus side, I am saving about $700-900/month depending on various factors compared to last year.

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8712 on: June 11, 2015, 11:20:48 AM »
I have also read the entire thread.

Me too... hey has anyone else read this thread?  If so, please speak up, it might be your last chance
I've read it all, and if I find time to catch up on one thread, it's this one.
I am not a cog. I am an organizational lubricant.

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8713 on: June 11, 2015, 11:34:14 AM »
No exactly overheard at work, but I was speaking with a friend/coworker the other day and complaining a bit about how we spend so much on groceries and how I need to get a handle on it. He asked me what I wanted to spend the money on that I wanted to free up by spending less on groceries.

It took me a moment to process before replying that I wanted to save the money, not spend it on something else. The response I got back was pretty dismissal, along the lines of "why would you want to do that?".
"It'll be great!"

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8714 on: June 11, 2015, 11:37:33 AM »
I've reviewed every page, but for the section on  black, orange, and red boxes, I didn't read any part of any post after the first hundred or so where those words were mentioned.  Good God, people, that was painful!
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8715 on: June 11, 2015, 11:41:52 AM »
CW with probably $70K in consumer debt frequently mentions wanting to pare that down. He's collecting his order of two $8 sushi rolls in the next cube...
I am not a cog. I am an organizational lubricant.

Rollin

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8716 on: June 11, 2015, 11:45:48 AM »
CWr makes about $120,000/year in a not so bad COL area.  No kids, modest house, old Toyota, just not very spendy.  30 years and fully vested in great pension.  62 years old.

Whined and complained in front of the bosses about being underpaid, at a time when they were considering promotions for CWr (and me).

Bosses changed their collective minds and went a different path.  No raises, no promotions.

CWr upset.

Me fine since FIRE is in October at 54 years old (if all goes according to plan)
I love being outside.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8717 on: June 11, 2015, 12:02:01 PM »
No exactly overheard at work, but I was speaking with a friend/coworker the other day and complaining a bit about how we spend so much on groceries and how I need to get a handle on it. He asked me what I wanted to spend the money on that I wanted to free up by spending less on groceries.

It took me a moment to process before replying that I wanted to save the money, not spend it on something else. The response I got back was pretty dismissal, along the lines of "why would you want to do that?".

I want to save money on groceries now, so I can spend the money on groceries in the future without having to work for that money.

Someone save a link to this page of the thread for a few months from now when someone says no one has read this whole thread!

What?  I seriously doubt anyone has read EVERY post in this thread.  It's like a million pages after all.

I've reviewed every page, but for the section on  black, orange, and red boxes, I didn't read any part of any post after the first hundred or so where those words were mentioned.  Good God, people, that was painful!

I've reviewed every page, but for the ones with words on them.

snuggler

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8718 on: June 11, 2015, 12:07:58 PM »
CWr makes about $120,000/year in a not so bad COL area.  No kids, modest house, old Toyota, just not very spendy.  30 years and fully vested in great pension.  62 years old.

Whined and complained in front of the bosses about being underpaid, at a time when they were considering promotions for CWr (and me).

Bosses changed their collective minds and went a different path.  No raises, no promotions.

CWr upset.

Me fine since FIRE is in October at 54 years old (if all goes according to plan)

Hmm. Maybe he is FI but just thinks his time is worth more? I'm surprised that he's not spendy but acted this way. Maybe he has sick or otherwise dependent family members?

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8719 on: June 11, 2015, 12:10:38 PM »
CW with probably $70K in consumer debt frequently mentions wanting to pare that down. He's collecting his order of two $8 sushi rolls in the next cube...

I have been craving sushi. I might go to a Asian grocery story for lunch one of these days, it isn't cheap but it is cheaper than going to a good place to get my fix.

firelight

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8720 on: June 11, 2015, 12:30:18 PM »
Read every post on this thread at work (mostly during lunch break but still....)

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8721 on: June 11, 2015, 12:57:26 PM »
CW with probably $70K in consumer debt frequently mentions wanting to pare that down. He's collecting his order of two $8 sushi rolls in the next cube...
Sushi is comparativily expensive, but for 16$ you could make enough sushi yourself to be stuffed two times and still have a few pieces to share.
Quote
What?  I seriously doubt anyone has read EVERY post in this thread.  It's like a million pages after all.
Well, I, as others, have done it. Of course, I fast read a few pages now and then, but I read it all. I started reading when it was 30 pages or so, so it was easy.

dycker1978

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8722 on: June 11, 2015, 01:04:05 PM »
I have also read the entire thread.

Me too... hey has anyone else read this thread?  If so, please speak up, it might be your last chance

I have read this entire thread, too.

How many have read this thread entirely while at work overhearing stupid stuff?

This is me

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8723 on: June 11, 2015, 01:18:12 PM »
CW with probably $70K in consumer debt frequently mentions wanting to pare that down. He's collecting his order of two $8 sushi rolls in the next cube...
Sushi is comparativily expensive, but for 16$ you could make enough sushi yourself to be stuffed two times and still have a few pieces to share.
Quote

I agree, every once in a while me and a few friends will get some good quality fish and make sushi together. It really doesn't cost all that much, around $10 per person, and maybe more if we have wine or anything else, and it is a lot of fun to do.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8724 on: June 11, 2015, 04:10:26 PM »
No exactly overheard at work, but I was speaking with a friend/coworker the other day and complaining a bit about how we spend so much on groceries and how I need to get a handle on it. He asked me what I wanted to spend the money on that I wanted to free up by spending less on groceries.

It took me a moment to process before replying that I wanted to save the money, not spend it on something else. The response I got back was pretty dismissal, along the lines of "why would you want to do that?".
I went to an end-of-the-school-year beach thing yesterday. Well, my spouse took the boys, I showed up at 6:20 after getting out of work.  Not many people left.

Anyway, was talking to a man there.  I've met his wife a few times.  He's 54 with a kindergartener.  He talked about how he's in "cloud computing" and he's been very careful to pay attention to the industry all his career and make sure that he's relevant and up to date - this keeps his skills new and needed and means that the longest he has ever been unemployed is 3 months.

He said "it's important at my age so that you don't age out due to being..." I said "obsolete" and he said "no, unhireable.  It's different.  You can be relevant but unhireable because you are too old and too expensive.  But if you are very skilled, you can stay employed."  We then discussed my work and the fact that "are there any semiconductor fabs left in the US?"  Yeah, not many, hence why I'm frugal (one of the many reasons).

But I brought the subject up at lunch today, as we were eating free leftovers from the business meeting.  And my former boss (late 50's) was agreeing completely.  He said "I can run divisions and companies, so I don't suffer as much from the ageism, but it's a real thing".  And it's true for him - he's been a VP and is totally awesome.  For me though, at almost 45 - I am seeing the effects of being female (glass ceiling), being in a dying industry (very few places to move up), being a mother (not willing to work 50-60 hour weeks), and not being willing to move.  Even the very experienced and awesome people that I know, in their 50's, have taken at least 6 months to find a job, sometimes longer.  And these are people who are well known with a lot of connections.

It hit fast, too.  At 40, I realized I was protected from age discrimination and it felt silly.  It doesn't feel very silly anymore.  Companies are like the military - pyramids.  There aren't that many spots at the "top", so if you are "just an engineer", you may have 30 years of experience, but you are competing with dozens of people with 15-30 years experience.  So, do I want to be a "worker bee" known for my solid, fast, quality work?  Or do I want to try to climb the ladder?  Or what?

Interesting topic all around, and a bit depressing (you can NEVER assume that your salary will go up and up, or even hold steady, especially after 55).  I don't think most people quite work that into their retirement plans.

Wilson Hall

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8725 on: June 11, 2015, 06:55:58 PM »
No exactly overheard at work, but I was speaking with a friend/coworker the other day and complaining a bit about how we spend so much on groceries and how I need to get a handle on it. He asked me what I wanted to spend the money on that I wanted to free up by spending less on groceries.

It took me a moment to process before replying that I wanted to save the money, not spend it on something else. The response I got back was pretty dismissal, along the lines of "why would you want to do that?".
I went to an end-of-the-school-year beach thing yesterday. Well, my spouse took the boys, I showed up at 6:20 after getting out of work.  Not many people left.

Anyway, was talking to a man there.  I've met his wife a few times.  He's 54 with a kindergartener.  He talked about how he's in "cloud computing" and he's been very careful to pay attention to the industry all his career and make sure that he's relevant and up to date - this keeps his skills new and needed and means that the longest he has ever been unemployed is 3 months.

He said "it's important at my age so that you don't age out due to being..." I said "obsolete" and he said "no, unhireable.  It's different.  You can be relevant but unhireable because you are too old and too expensive.  But if you are very skilled, you can stay employed."  We then discussed my work and the fact that "are there any semiconductor fabs left in the US?"  Yeah, not many, hence why I'm frugal (one of the many reasons).

But I brought the subject up at lunch today, as we were eating free leftovers from the business meeting.  And my former boss (late 50's) was agreeing completely.  He said "I can run divisions and companies, so I don't suffer as much from the ageism, but it's a real thing".  And it's true for him - he's been a VP and is totally awesome.  For me though, at almost 45 - I am seeing the effects of being female (glass ceiling), being in a dying industry (very few places to move up), being a mother (not willing to work 50-60 hour weeks), and not being willing to move.  Even the very experienced and awesome people that I know, in their 50's, have taken at least 6 months to find a job, sometimes longer.  And these are people who are well known with a lot of connections.

It hit fast, too.  At 40, I realized I was protected from age discrimination and it felt silly.  It doesn't feel very silly anymore.  Companies are like the military - pyramids.  There aren't that many spots at the "top", so if you are "just an engineer", you may have 30 years of experience, but you are competing with dozens of people with 15-30 years experience.  So, do I want to be a "worker bee" known for my solid, fast, quality work?  Or do I want to try to climb the ladder?  Or what?

Interesting topic all around, and a bit depressing (you can NEVER assume that your salary will go up and up, or even hold steady, especially after 55).  I don't think most people quite work that into their retirement plans.

Thank you for sharing this. I'm only a few years older than you and am aware that I'm wandering into this job-insecure demographic. This is why I'm hoping to hang onto the current job I have, warts and all, as long as it lasts and is tolerable. Due to my not beginning saving for retirement until I was almost 30, and not doing so fairly aggressively until about 8 or 9 years ago, I can't foresee retiring for at least another 9 years, barring some unforeseen windfall or major bump in salary.

Dee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8726 on: June 11, 2015, 07:56:07 PM »
I can't say for sure I've read the whole thread, because I don't always know where I've left off and may have missed bits and pieces. But, in general, I've read the thread, foamy parts and all.

The Guru

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8727 on: June 11, 2015, 08:04:39 PM »
I have also read the entire thread.

Me too... hey has anyone else read this thread?  If so, please speak up, it might be your last chance

I have read this entire thread, too.

How many have read this thread entirely while at work overhearing stupid stuff?

This is me

More important- how much actual Overheard At Work stuff has gone un(over)heard because everyone was busy reading the Overheard At Work thread???

Backtoworknow!!!!!!!!!BACKTOWORK!!!!

briandougherty

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8728 on: June 11, 2015, 08:24:11 PM »
CWr makes about $120,000/year in a not so bad COL area.  No kids, modest house, old Toyota, just not very spendy.  30 years and fully vested in great pension.  62 years old.

Whined and complained in front of the bosses about being underpaid, at a time when they were considering promotions for CWr (and me).

Bosses changed their collective minds and went a different path.  No raises, no promotions.

CWr upset.

Me fine since FIRE is in October at 54 years old (if all goes according to plan)

Hmm. Maybe he is FI but just thinks his time is worth more? I'm surprised that he's not spendy but acted this way. Maybe he has sick or otherwise dependent family members?

Yeah. It seems to me there's a Goldilocks effect going on with getting raises.  You can't be too blase and expect a raise.  You can't just whine about it either.  You have to know your boss and apply the right amount of pressure so that they know you want it and they're just a bit uncertain about what you'll do if you don't get it. If you're valuable, that will make them push for it with their higher ups.  I definitely think there's a bit of play acting to the whole thing.

Just because you don't "need" the money doesn't mean you won't angle to get paid more to meet your goals sooner or have a bit extra.

Rural

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8729 on: June 12, 2015, 06:32:46 AM »
No exactly overheard at work, but I was speaking with a friend/coworker the other day and complaining a bit about how we spend so much on groceries and how I need to get a handle on it. He asked me what I wanted to spend the money on that I wanted to free up by spending less on groceries.

It took me a moment to process before replying that I wanted to save the money, not spend it on something else. The response I got back was pretty dismissal, along the lines of "why would you want to do that?".
I went to an end-of-the-school-year beach thing yesterday. Well, my spouse took the boys, I showed up at 6:20 after getting out of work.  Not many people left.

Anyway, was talking to a man there.  I've met his wife a few times.  He's 54 with a kindergartener.  He talked about how he's in "cloud computing" and he's been very careful to pay attention to the industry all his career and make sure that he's relevant and up to date - this keeps his skills new and needed and means that the longest he has ever been unemployed is 3 months.

He said "it's important at my age so that you don't age out due to being..." I said "obsolete" and he said "no, unhireable.  It's different.  You can be relevant but unhireable because you are too old and too expensive.  But if you are very skilled, you can stay employed."  We then discussed my work and the fact that "are there any semiconductor fabs left in the US?"  Yeah, not many, hence why I'm frugal (one of the many reasons).

But I brought the subject up at lunch today, as we were eating free leftovers from the business meeting.  And my former boss (late 50's) was agreeing completely.  He said "I can run divisions and companies, so I don't suffer as much from the ageism, but it's a real thing".  And it's true for him - he's been a VP and is totally awesome.  For me though, at almost 45 - I am seeing the effects of being female (glass ceiling), being in a dying industry (very few places to move up), being a mother (not willing to work 50-60 hour weeks), and not being willing to move.  Even the very experienced and awesome people that I know, in their 50's, have taken at least 6 months to find a job, sometimes longer.  And these are people who are well known with a lot of connections.

It hit fast, too.  At 40, I realized I was protected from age discrimination and it felt silly.  It doesn't feel very silly anymore.  Companies are like the military - pyramids.  There aren't that many spots at the "top", so if you are "just an engineer", you may have 30 years of experience, but you are competing with dozens of people with 15-30 years experience.  So, do I want to be a "worker bee" known for my solid, fast, quality work?  Or do I want to try to climb the ladder?  Or what?

Interesting topic all around, and a bit depressing (you can NEVER assume that your salary will go up and up, or even hold steady, especially after 55).  I don't think most people quite work that into their retirement plans.

Thank you for sharing this. I'm only a few years older than you and am aware that I'm wandering into this job-insecure demographic. This is why I'm hoping to hang onto the current job I have, warts and all, as long as it lasts and is tolerable. Due to my not beginning saving for retirement until I was almost 30, and not doing so fairly aggressively until about 8 or 9 years ago, I can't foresee retiring for at least another 9 years, barring some unforeseen windfall or major bump in salary.


This is interesting and important. While it happens in every industry, it seems to me that tech is more prone to age discrimination than many, and it also seems to change frequently (so that everyone gets laid off at some point). It's a field where it's possible to earn the kind of salary that leads naturally to early retirement, but also one in which "early" retirement may not be a choice but an unplanned inability to find work at some point that is decidedly not yet old (just ask Social Securtiy - old is getting older).


Seems to me that working toward FI if not RE is a necessity rather than a luxury in many cases. That's why you would want to do that.

cripzychiken

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8730 on: June 12, 2015, 07:04:23 AM »
No exactly overheard at work, but I was speaking with a friend/coworker the other day and complaining a bit about how we spend so much on groceries and how I need to get a handle on it. He asked me what I wanted to spend the money on that I wanted to free up by spending less on groceries.

It took me a moment to process before replying that I wanted to save the money, not spend it on something else. The response I got back was pretty dismissal, along the lines of "why would you want to do that?".
I went to an end-of-the-school-year beach thing yesterday. Well, my spouse took the boys, I showed up at 6:20 after getting out of work.  Not many people left.

Anyway, was talking to a man there.  I've met his wife a few times.  He's 54 with a kindergartener.  He talked about how he's in "cloud computing" and he's been very careful to pay attention to the industry all his career and make sure that he's relevant and up to date - this keeps his skills new and needed and means that the longest he has ever been unemployed is 3 months.

He said "it's important at my age so that you don't age out due to being..." I said "obsolete" and he said "no, unhireable.  It's different.  You can be relevant but unhireable because you are too old and too expensive.  But if you are very skilled, you can stay employed."  We then discussed my work and the fact that "are there any semiconductor fabs left in the US?"  Yeah, not many, hence why I'm frugal (one of the many reasons).

But I brought the subject up at lunch today, as we were eating free leftovers from the business meeting.  And my former boss (late 50's) was agreeing completely.  He said "I can run divisions and companies, so I don't suffer as much from the ageism, but it's a real thing".  And it's true for him - he's been a VP and is totally awesome.  For me though, at almost 45 - I am seeing the effects of being female (glass ceiling), being in a dying industry (very few places to move up), being a mother (not willing to work 50-60 hour weeks), and not being willing to move.  Even the very experienced and awesome people that I know, in their 50's, have taken at least 6 months to find a job, sometimes longer.  And these are people who are well known with a lot of connections.

It hit fast, too.  At 40, I realized I was protected from age discrimination and it felt silly.  It doesn't feel very silly anymore.  Companies are like the military - pyramids.  There aren't that many spots at the "top", so if you are "just an engineer", you may have 30 years of experience, but you are competing with dozens of people with 15-30 years experience.  So, do I want to be a "worker bee" known for my solid, fast, quality work?  Or do I want to try to climb the ladder?  Or what?

Interesting topic all around, and a bit depressing (you can NEVER assume that your salary will go up and up, or even hold steady, especially after 55).  I don't think most people quite work that into their retirement plans.

Thank you for sharing this. I'm only a few years older than you and am aware that I'm wandering into this job-insecure demographic. This is why I'm hoping to hang onto the current job I have, warts and all, as long as it lasts and is tolerable. Due to my not beginning saving for retirement until I was almost 30, and not doing so fairly aggressively until about 8 or 9 years ago, I can't foresee retiring for at least another 9 years, barring some unforeseen windfall or major bump in salary.


This is interesting and important. While it happens in every industry, it seems to me that tech is more prone to age discrimination than many, and it also seems to change frequently (so that everyone gets laid off at some point). It's a field where it's possible to earn the kind of salary that leads naturally to early retirement, but also one in which "early" retirement may not be a choice but an unplanned inability to find work at some point that is decidedly not yet old (just ask Social Securtiy - old is getting older).


Seems to me that working toward FI if not RE is a necessity rather than a luxury in many cases. That's why you would want to do that.

I think the reason people think that Tech is prone to ageism is that they expect to get paid for experience that doesn't relate to the job they are applying for.  If you have 30 years total xp, but only 5 years working with a given program/language/etc; how does that make you any different than a guy with 5 years xp in that language?  Sure you probably have more 'business skills' and stuff that you can only get by working, but when looking at who is the best fit for that spot, picking the guy making 30% less with the same xp - that's not ageism.

My field (Mech Engineering) is facing a similar issue.  The gray guard is starting to realize that due to how advanced the programs we use are, their 40yrs xp working out stuff by hand that can now to solved in 5minutes if you know how to use the software doesn't count the same anymore. It isn't ageism to pay a guy 30% less that can do the work just as well, that's good business.  Now  that said, a lot of the older guys have taken a slight pay cut to keep competitive, and when it gets to only a 5-10% premium, then the older guy tends to win that battle - after all, just seeing a problem before makes you that much of a better engineer.

partgypsy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8731 on: June 12, 2015, 07:17:58 AM »
"I wish I could eat what you eat, but I have low glycemic index (self-diagnosed) sugar so I need to eat less carbs"



LOL

JAYSLOL

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8732 on: June 12, 2015, 07:23:28 AM »

I'm not sure I can even sum up the trainwreck i heard yesterday, but here is my best try. 

New CW mentions he is happy to get this job, which is at minimum wage, because he is broke.  He is 30 years or so older than I am.  He then says until this job he has been unemployed for over a year, to which I think to myself that it's pretty bad at that age to blow through all your savings after just one year, BUT then i find out he has been on employment insurance up till only 2 months ago!  Even worse! 
We drive past one of our company work trucks (a 2012 F150) and CW asks: what year is that one, i say 2012, CW: it has a different grill than my 2012.  he then says he hasn't made the last few payments on his (dealer financing from new, of course!).  I ask what kind of work he was doing before, he replies he worked as a baker!  AGGHHH!  I keep silent.  He also said he used to have some old 60's boat of a car as a project vehicle, that he paid $4000 for, and then spent another $4000 to keep in storage for 2 years, couldn't find anyone who could bring it out here for him so he had to let it go. 
New CW also complains about how bad his neighbour is with money, saying she goes to the casino often and will go through 200-300 in a night.  I say, yeah those casinos really suck money out of people, i don't go.  He says, he goes with her sometimes, but will only spend 20-30 each time and only buy 1 beer.  AGGGHHH!  I keep silent again.  All this time though out the day, he is taking smoke breaks to burn through some cigarettes, and then complains that his knees are sore.  I ask why.  He says its the stairs at his place, he has to go up 14 steps and down 7 steps and back for every smoke break.   

I wonder what today will bring?

Threshkin

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8733 on: June 12, 2015, 08:21:25 AM »
CW with probably $70K in consumer debt frequently mentions wanting to pare that down. He's collecting his order of two $8 sushi rolls in the next cube...

I have been craving sushi. I might go to a Asian grocery story for lunch one of these days, it isn't cheap but it is cheaper than going to a good place to get my fix.

Even cheaper is to make it yourself.  Sushi is amazingly simple to make.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8734 on: June 12, 2015, 08:36:04 AM »
CW with probably $70K in consumer debt frequently mentions wanting to pare that down. He's collecting his order of two $8 sushi rolls in the next cube...

I have been craving sushi. I might go to a Asian grocery story for lunch one of these days, it isn't cheap but it is cheaper than going to a good place to get my fix.

Even cheaper is to make it yourself.  Sushi is amazingly simple to make.

I agree! I have a few friends that will make sushi together with. It's more fun that way cause you can get a variety of fish to play with. By yourself you lose the social aspect, and only use a fish or two. I still might this weekend.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8735 on: June 12, 2015, 08:48:24 AM »
Quote
I think the reason people think that Tech is prone to ageism is that they expect to get paid for experience that doesn't relate to the job they are applying for.  If you have 30 years total xp, but only 5 years working with a given program/language/etc; how does that make you any different than a guy with 5 years xp in that language?  Sure you probably have more 'business skills' and stuff that you can only get by working, but when looking at who is the best fit for that spot, picking the guy making 30% less with the same xp - that's not ageism.

My field (Mech Engineering) is facing a similar issue.  The gray guard is starting to realize that due to how advanced the programs we use are, their 40yrs xp working out stuff by hand that can now to solved in 5minutes if you know how to use the software doesn't count the same anymore. It isn't ageism to pay a guy 30% less that can do the work just as well, that's good business.  Now  that said, a lot of the older guys have taken a slight pay cut to keep competitive, and when it gets to only a 5-10% premium, then the older guy tends to win that battle - after all, just seeing a problem before makes you that much of a better engineer.

Very good points.  In my industry, experience is very important - but it totally depends on the company.  My former boss is awesome because he's moved around a lot - so he has a lot of DIFFERENCE semiconductor experience in all sorts of devices and processes. 

As a smallish startup doing something new - we only have the experience gained (mostly) from people getting their PhD in a lab.  That's not totally true, but partially true.

So my own personal experience that I bring to the table is 15 years of this particular device processing, operation, design, etc. - and I know at my last company what kind of things broke and how to fix them.  I had a minimal amount of high volume experience prior to that.

What my ex-boss brings is a good solid knowledge of device physics and decades of process flow design and process experience (we would not have qualified our first part without him).

My current boss is a device physics nerd.

You can be a good solid process engineer with 10 years experience.  Junior engineer with 2-3 years.  When we were growing, however, we seriously needed a handful of the 30 years experience folks to do the things that we didn't know, like detailed process information on dry etch, photolithography, etc.

In this small town I've found it hard to find a new, equivalent position because it's such a small town.  I interviewed for a position that was perfect (for me).  It used all of my skills and experience, but was a new device - which would give me the opportunity to expand my device knowledge.   I didn't get it.  They ended up not filling the position, but I noticed that it's open again (they have two positions open).  I'm really  not sure what they are looking for - but the few conversations that I've had with friends indicate that maybe they are being super picky (also hard to do in this town, you end up hiring people from Bay Area who commute).  I realize, though, that I cannot control that. 

And now I understand something else - when the company I worked for in 1999 went under, we all scattered to different places.  The vast majority of my coworkers - probably 80% - are still at the same companies where they went in 2000 or 2001.  But most of my coworkers are in their 50's now.  Originally I thought maybe their companies are awesome.  Maybe they are just hunkering down!

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8736 on: June 12, 2015, 09:01:07 AM »
I think the reason people think that Tech is prone to ageism is that they expect to get paid for experience that doesn't relate to the job they are applying for.  If you have 30 years total xp, but only 5 years working with a given program/language/etc; how does that make you any different than a guy with 5 years xp in that language?  Sure you probably have more 'business skills' and stuff that you can only get by working, but when looking at who is the best fit for that spot, picking the guy making 30% less with the same xp - that's not ageism.

My field (Mech Engineering) is facing a similar issue.  The gray guard is starting to realize that due to how advanced the programs we use are, their 40yrs xp working out stuff by hand that can now to solved in 5minutes if you know how to use the software doesn't count the same anymore. It isn't ageism to pay a guy 30% less that can do the work just as well, that's good business.  Now  that said, a lot of the older guys have taken a slight pay cut to keep competitive, and when it gets to only a 5-10% premium, then the older guy tends to win that battle - after all, just seeing a problem before makes you that much of a better engineer.

If the experience you're talking about is related to programming, there is tremendous carryover related to design.  The guy with 5 years experience will usually not design his code as well, think of special cases as well, or be able to solve his problems as quickly.  Long term maintenance of the code base produced by the guy with 5 years experience will be more costly.  Programming is a logical mindset . . . language specifics are very easy to learn.  I can teach you to code in a couple weeks.  It takes a lifetime to learn to code well.

theknitcycle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8737 on: June 12, 2015, 12:13:28 PM »
I just had to declare myself on break so that I could come share this...

Yesterday:  CW complains she's already (as of the 11th) in the hole $300 for the month because it's her anniversary and she had to pay for the anniversary trip last weekend (two nights at nice hotel outside of town, dinners, fancy drinks all weekend) plus buy a $200 anniversary present.

This morning:  Same CW comes in saying she's a little hung over because happy hour got out of hand last night.  Describes to me the seven (SEVEN!) different cocktails she had at three different bars.  Mixed drinks at the places she mentioned go for $8-$12 each, maybe $7 if she managed to drink all of them before 6pm.  Plus dinner at one of the stops.

Just before I logged on: She was digging through the company's supply of thank you cards to find one she can re-purpose as a birthday card, because she's going to a birthday party tonight and has to bring a card but is too broke to buy one.

Right now as I'm finishing up typing: She is on the phone ordering a $10 takeout lunch.

cripzychiken

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8738 on: June 12, 2015, 12:19:52 PM »
I think the reason people think that Tech is prone to ageism is that they expect to get paid for experience that doesn't relate to the job they are applying for.  If you have 30 years total xp, but only 5 years working with a given program/language/etc; how does that make you any different than a guy with 5 years xp in that language?  Sure you probably have more 'business skills' and stuff that you can only get by working, but when looking at who is the best fit for that spot, picking the guy making 30% less with the same xp - that's not ageism.

My field (Mech Engineering) is facing a similar issue.  The gray guard is starting to realize that due to how advanced the programs we use are, their 40yrs xp working out stuff by hand that can now to solved in 5minutes if you know how to use the software doesn't count the same anymore. It isn't ageism to pay a guy 30% less that can do the work just as well, that's good business.  Now  that said, a lot of the older guys have taken a slight pay cut to keep competitive, and when it gets to only a 5-10% premium, then the older guy tends to win that battle - after all, just seeing a problem before makes you that much of a better engineer.

If the experience you're talking about is related to programming, there is tremendous carryover related to design.  The guy with 5 years experience will usually not design his code as well, think of special cases as well, or be able to solve his problems as quickly.  Long term maintenance of the code base produced by the guy with 5 years experience will be more costly.  Programming is a logical mindset . . . language specifics are very easy to learn.  I can teach you to code in a couple weeks.  It takes a lifetime to learn to code well.

Completely agree that xp help you know 'how to do right' rather than just 'what to do'.  My main point was if a guy has 5 yrs xp and is ~90% of a guy with 40 yrs xp, it be worth the 30% pay savings for the company. 

As for coding, I had to do it in college for a class, survived it and realized it's not for me.  So I'm not near knowledgeable if there is a correlation there.  But, I can say that in manufacturing and mech design after about 5 yrs of good xp, I can't see too much of a difference between employees based on technical knowledge.  Now when it comes to leadership skills, management skills , personal time management, etc - there is a difference.  I feel tech is out pacing xp very quickly and making people who know how to use the software as good as people who know the science/engineering behind it.

I know there is a lot more that goes into it, but if I end up as a manager before FIRE, I won't really care about xp after the 5 yr mark for everything that isn't a project lead role.  I know that there is a good deal of skill with older employees since they have just seen more problems and know how to fix them, but I also think that paying 30% more for that is probably not worth it. I would only value the extra xp for leadership and management reasons (since software hasn't found a way to replace that yet).

dorothyc

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8739 on: June 12, 2015, 12:21:16 PM »
I can't say for sure I've read the whole thread, because I don't always know where I've left off and may have missed bits and pieces. But, in general, I've read the thread, foamy parts and all.

That is what the orange "new" button is for :)

Hunny156

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8740 on: June 12, 2015, 12:33:34 PM »
Just wanted to chime in that I too, have ready every page of this thread, almost exclusively while at work.  It's one of my favorite guilty pleasures.

Not sure I've mentioned this before, but it was overheard at work:

CW: I saw you listed your car for sale! (FB post of Craig's List ad)
Me: Actually, I already sold it!  Right out of the parking lot here, under 24 hours!
CW: Cool!  What are you gonna get now?
Me: (confused, since she knows I'm frugal) A bigger bank account!  I'm gonna drive hubby's old car.

Boss:  Literally LOL's at my bigger bank account comment.  :)

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8741 on: June 12, 2015, 01:14:33 PM »
I feel tech is out pacing xp very quickly and making people who know how to use the software as good as people who know the science/engineering behind it.

It's been my experience that knowing how to use engineering software without understanding the science behind it means you're likely to misuse the software.  Although people with 5 years of experience typically understand the basics of what it can and can't do. 

I do agree that there's diminishing returns that go along with experience.  And intelligence can be more valuable than experience, to the company at least.

eljefe-speaks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8742 on: June 12, 2015, 02:32:55 PM »
CW lives about an hour of pure traffic hell away from downtown, where we work. Her husband just landed a job dowtown. Hooray, now they can carpool right!? Nope. That would mean CW would have to get here at 8 AM. The kicker: our work schedule is 8 AM - 5 PM. She is going to drive seperately because otherwise she would have to get here ON TIME! 

dycker1978

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8743 on: June 12, 2015, 03:07:25 PM »
Talking to a Co-worker this morning about parking down town at work.

A couple background things first.  We live in a small city.  You can get anywhere in 20 minutes by car.  We work right in the center of the city.  Easy to get to from just about anywhere.

CW: My God is parking getting expensive down town.  It now costs me $175 a month to park.
me: The bus only costs $75 a month.  You don't have to worry about parking then.
CW: I am not taking the bus, a bunch of low lives take that.
me: You could Always ride your bike.  They give bikers a free parking spot downstairs in the parkaide
CW: That is to far to ride every morning.  I would be to sweaty to work.
Me: face palm

He lives about 3 blocks from me.  I ride every day.  There is a shower facility here.  He wonders why he is broke.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8744 on: June 12, 2015, 04:16:54 PM »
I have also read the whole thing (like eating an elephant, a bit at a time). I didn't read it at work since I am retired (evil laugh).  Does make me happier to be retired, although I have to say my coworkers were not this extravagant.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8745 on: June 13, 2015, 09:16:21 AM »
I just had to declare myself on break so that I could come share this...

Yesterday:  CW complains she's already (as of the 11th) in the hole $300 for the month because it's her anniversary and she had to pay for the anniversary trip last weekend (two nights at nice hotel outside of town, dinners, fancy drinks all weekend) plus buy a $200 anniversary present.

This morning:  Same CW comes in saying she's a little hung over because happy hour got out of hand last night.  Describes to me the seven (SEVEN!) different cocktails she had at three different bars.  Mixed drinks at the places she mentioned go for $8-$12 each, maybe $7 if she managed to drink all of them before 6pm.  Plus dinner at one of the stops.

Just before I logged on: She was digging through the company's supply of thank you cards to find one she can re-purpose as a birthday card, because she's going to a birthday party tonight and has to bring a card but is too broke to buy one.

Right now as I'm finishing up typing: She is on the phone ordering a $10 takeout lunch.
oh god

crazy jane

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8746 on: June 13, 2015, 10:34:07 AM »
I just had to declare myself on break so that I could come share this...

Yesterday:  CW complains she's already (as of the 11th) in the hole $300 for the month because it's her anniversary and she had to pay for the anniversary trip last weekend (two nights at nice hotel outside of town, dinners, fancy drinks all weekend) plus buy a $200 anniversary present.

This morning:  Same CW comes in saying she's a little hung over because happy hour got out of hand last night.  Describes to me the seven (SEVEN!) different cocktails she had at three different bars.  Mixed drinks at the places she mentioned go for $8-$12 each, maybe $7 if she managed to drink all of them before 6pm.  Plus dinner at one of the stops.

Just before I logged on: She was digging through the company's supply of thank you cards to find one she can re-purpose as a birthday card, because she's going to a birthday party tonight and has to bring a card but is too broke to buy one.

Right now as I'm finishing up typing: She is on the phone ordering a $10 takeout lunch.

These gems are the reason  I've read every word in this thread. I've never posted, due to working with frugal teachers, but thank you to everyone for sharing your experiences. It's my daily comic relief and I have loved all of it. Please keep sharing

nobodyspecial

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8747 on: June 13, 2015, 11:44:13 AM »
Quote
If you have 30 years total xp, but only 5 years working with a given program/language/etc; how does that make you any different than a guy with 5 years xp in that language
Because the specifics of the language is the least important part of software engineering.
This statement is precisely why software engineering isn't engineering.

----------------- The famous interview a carpenter like a developer sketch -----------------

Interviewer: So, you're a carpenter, are you?
Carpenter: That's right, that's what I do.

Interviewer: How long have you been doing it?
Carpenter: Ten years.

Interviewer: Great, that's good. Now, I have a few technical questions to ask you to see if you're a fit for our team. OK?
Carpenter: Sure, that'd be fine.

Interviewer: First of all, we're working in a subdivision building a lot of brown houses. Have you built a lot of brown houses before?
Carpenter: Well, I'm a carpenter, so I build houses, and people pretty much paint them the way they want.

Interviewer: Yes, I understand that, but can you give me an idea of how much experience you have with brown? Roughly.
Carpenter: Gosh, I really don't know. Once they're built I don't care what color they get painted. Maybe six months?

Interviewer: Six months? Well, we were looking for someone with a lot more brown experience, but let me ask you some more questions.
Carpenter: Well, OK, but paint is paint, you know.

Interviewer: OK. Hang on let me check off the box...
Carpenter: Go right ahead.

Interviewer: OK, one more thing for today. We're using Rock 5.1 to bang nails with. Have you used Rock 5.1?
Carpenter: [Turning white...] Well, I know a lot of carpenters are starting to use rocks to bang nails with since Craftsman bought a quarry, but you know, to be honest I've had more luck with my nailgun. Or a hammer, for that matter. I find I hit my fingers too much with the rock, and my other hand hurts because the rock is so big.

Interviewer: But other companies are using rocks. Are you saying rocks don't work?
Carpenter: No, I'm not saying rocks don't work, exactly, it's just that I think nail guns work better.

Interviewer: Well, our architects have all started using rocks, and they like it.
Carpenter: Well, sure they do, but I bang nails all day, and -- well, look, I need the work, so I'm definitely willing to use rocks if you want. I try to keep an open mind.

Interviewer: OK, well we have a few other candidates we're looking at, so we'll let you know.
Carpenter: Well, thanks for your time. I enjoyed meeting you.

NEXT DAY:

Ring...


Interviewer: Actually, we have. We liked your experience overall, but we decided to go with someone who has done a lot of work with brown.
Carpenter: Really, is that it? So I lost the job because I didn't have enough brown?

Interviewer: Well, it was partly that, but partly we got the other fellow a lot cheaper.
Carpenter: Really -- how much experience does he have?

Interviewer: Well, he's not really a carpenter, he's a car salesman -- but he's sold a lot of brown cars
Carpenter: [click]

 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 11:45:56 AM by nobodyspecial »

Sam E

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8748 on: June 13, 2015, 12:49:02 PM »
----------------- The famous interview a carpenter like a developer sketch -----------------

This was hilarious. I think it applies to my line of work as well, fixing computers. I currently work on industrial computers, but computer hardware is computer hardware. What's in the box of a factory "HMI" is pretty much the same as what's in a laptop, desktop, etc. But for some reason you can't convince an interviewer of that for some reason. I have nearly 5 years of professional experience fixing industrial PCs, so that means I'm woefully ill-equipped to fix an office PC or a home PC, or so I've actually been told by potential employers.

Rollin

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8749 on: June 13, 2015, 09:57:30 PM »
CWr makes about $120,000/year in a not so bad COL area.  No kids, modest house, old Toyota, just not very spendy.  30 years and fully vested in great pension.  62 years old.

Whined and complained in front of the bosses about being underpaid, at a time when they were considering promotions for CWr (and me).

Bosses changed their collective minds and went a different path.  No raises, no promotions.

CWr upset.

Me fine since FIRE is in October at 54 years old (if all goes according to plan)

Hmm. Maybe he is FI but just thinks his time is worth more? I'm surprised that he's not spendy but acted this way. Maybe he has sick or otherwise dependent family members?

Yes, there must be more to the story than meets the eye.  The only other explanation is that CW is simply greedy.  One of our bosses took me aside a few weeks later to tell me how pissed off that made him when CW did that.
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