Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 4774989 times)

dycker1978

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8650 on: June 09, 2015, 10:05:51 AM »
I did have 2 weeks once where all I ate was KD and hot dogs because that was all I could afford after spending my cheque on stupid stuff. 

KD?  What is that?

Given than the author is Canadian, I'm going to assume Kraft Dinner, aka Kraft Macaroni and Cheese.
Yup no name brand comes on sale for about .25 a box.

Sam E

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8651 on: June 09, 2015, 10:29:45 AM »
CW was just recognized for 30 years of service. Uhhh...WHY are you still working after 30 years? Nevermind. We get to talking about our kids. She has two sons. One just graduated college and the other just finished his 2nd or 3rd year. Both sons have moved home for summer. She complained that they're total slobs and have doubled her grocery bill -- this in the first 5 mins of our conversation.

ME: So what's the graduate up to?
CW: Well, he has a part-time job.  He's saving up for a trip to Europe in 8 months and didn't want to commit to an employer and then have to resign.
ME: Oh
CW: Yeah, it's so nice to only have to pay for one kid in college.
ME: Oh, you helped your boys with college? So that means no student loans then, at least?
CW: Heavens no...we could only help so much. Both boys have HUGE loans. At least the oldest has finally started paying for his own gas. We told him he'd have to after he decided to lease a new car.
ME: (gulping for air) So...you paid for his car, gas, insurance all through college? Do you pay their cell phone bills too?
CW: Well, yeah, of course...

So, I'm trying to wrap my head around this, and I can't. The 24 year old graduate will only take a part-time job because he wants to spend a month or more in Europe next year. He just leased a car. Has thousands in student loans. Mooches terribly off his parents. And everybody is fine with the whole situation. Meanwhile, his dear old mom is slaving away at a high stress job and taking extra work over summer to "pay the bills". Seriously?

Being a mustachian too, I totally get where you're coming from.  I think we've got to try not to get to myopic, though, as this is very common both in terms of parenting behavior and young adult behavior.  I would wager that a vast majority of parents pay for their kids gas, cell phone bills, and other incidentals during college.  I would stake the same amount on most kids relying more on loans than parental contributions.

The Europe trip is less widespread, but still pretty common.  Hey, I did it.  In fact, with a few notable exceptions (I was paying my own living costs) this could totally be me.  Got out of school, worked a part time job, saved up, went and lived in Europe for almost a year.

As I said, I get what you're saying here-- just wanted to call out that this forum is most fun when it's the truly outrageous rather than emphasizing behavior that is common and (compared to some of the crazier stories) not all that self destructive.  Heck, even as a mustachian I could see myself paying gas, food, and cell phone for my kids when they're in college.  I'd probably encourage travel abroad, too, though I would insist on them covering their living expenses as they saved.

You're right that this is a common style of parenting, but it doesn't require a Mustachian to take issue with it. My parents raised me such that they expected by the time I was a teenager that if I wanted something, I could pay for it. They told me very early on, if I wanted a cell phone I'd have to buy it. If I wanted a driver's license, I'd be paying for the driver's ed, license fees, gas I use, and my portion of the insurance -- if I couldn't afford it, they'd be happy to give me rides as needed or tell me to walk/bike wherever. If I wanted a car, same deal: Get a job, save up, pay for a car; until then I can borrow theirs when I need it. Of course my parents would pay for things for me, within reason, and help out on certain things, because they were reasonable people. But the overarching principle was, "If you want it, you must also be willing to work for it." It's not about Mustachianism or frugality, it's just about giving your kids the tools to grow into responsible, independent, able, working adults.

iamlindoro

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8652 on: June 09, 2015, 10:36:17 AM »
You're right that this is a common style of parenting, but it doesn't require a Mustachian to take issue with it. My parents raised me such that they expected by the time I was a teenager that if I wanted something, I could pay for it. They told me very early on, if I wanted a cell phone I'd have to buy it. If I wanted a driver's license, I'd be paying for the driver's ed, license fees, gas I use, and my portion of the insurance -- if I couldn't afford it, they'd be happy to give me rides as needed or tell me to walk/bike wherever. If I wanted a car, same deal: Get a job, save up, pay for a car; until then I can borrow theirs when I need it. Of course my parents would pay for things for me, within reason, and help out on certain things, because they were reasonable people. But the overarching principle was, "If you want it, you must also be willing to work for it." It's not about Mustachianism or frugality, it's just about giving your kids the tools to grow into responsible, independent, able, working adults.

I can't find a single sentence here I disagree with.  My point was just that if we take commonplace and marginally destructive behaviors and raise them to the level of "hall of shame," it removes all nuance from our ability to judge these things and we risk becoming shrill and myopic.  I don't think what was described is the right way to parent/spend, but I also want to try to retain some semblance of perspective.
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Joggernot

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8653 on: June 09, 2015, 10:36:57 AM »

I get some of your point.  There can be issues with thyroid... it can up your weight by something like 3-4%.  No really a big deal.  But, companies now have perfected making food, so it is addicting.  Did you know that sugar, fat mix in processed food activates the same regions of the brain as does cocaine.  I get that you can change, but as someone who has recently, it is hard and requires a lifestyle change.
/foam

I understand your point entirely and don't mean to discount someone's health concerns. I'm aware of how food companies have become among the biggest drug dealers in the world, and my reaction was to be more conscious of what I put into my body. Though I work out a good amount, I will admit that I am overweight due to eating foods that I shouldn't...but I understand that this is on me, and no one else. It may be hard to overcome thyroid problems, but it certainly can be done. I know a girl that was about 280 pounds in college, I didn't know her then but was amazed at hearing this because when I had met her (5 years after she graduated) she had lost half of that weight by exercising, eating healthy, and taking medication for her thyroid (this is just an example, I don't know specifics of her case or anyone's, so don't know how typical this result is). The point I'm making it is that nothing in life is easy and there will always be obstacles. While the result you want may be unfeasible, I believe that that instead of complaining, we would be better off if we worked out butts off to try to overcome them.
We are making the same point in different ways... even with a thyroid issue you can lose weight.  And you are right, noting in life is easy, but the things that are hard make us stronger and better people.
As a male whose thyroid died because of a side affect from other medication, I can give first hand notice that when the thyroid medicine was prescribed, my energy level almost doubled, and the extra things I was able to do helped get the weight back off.  Low thyroid saps your energy and it becomes a vicious circle.  I don't think I would have been able to work through it and become stronger.  The medicine was very needed.

dividend

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8654 on: June 09, 2015, 10:44:18 AM »
I was talking to one of my cube-mates about upcoming summer plans, and how busy the summer is.  I've got a weekend in NYC this month, a a week in Germany in July, and 2 full weeks in Hawaii in September.  He literally said, "What are you, a millionaire?"  I started to explain about gaming credit cards for airline miles, and VRBO, and the ridiculously good deal I got by patiently Pricelining a car in Honolulu.  And I very pointedly did not explain that after the husband and I save/invest 50% of our take home we budget our vacations separately (because that's not anyone's business).  But people really assume that you can't do both. 

I have another co-worker that I've been friends with for 10+ years.  I've always told him I was going to retire at 45 (I'm 34).  I think he used to think I was joking, but the other day he asked me, in front of our boss, if that was still my plan.  I said probably.  My boss looked dumbfounded.  He said, "I don't understand how people retire."  I thought he meant, what do people do with their time?  But then he went on, "I can't imagine having enough money to not work."  Eek.  (My boss is probably 25 years older than me.)  My co-worker chimed in to point out that I have always lived well below my income, and my boss looked at me for a moment before he had like this light bulb moment and said, "Oh, that's why you can take those lavish vacations every year!"  Because apparently, I'm the only one in the office who takes 2 weeks at a time off to go somewhere interesting.  I so wanted to explain that, no, I don't live far below my means and then spend the difference on vacations, I figure out ways to travel that fit my budget after I meet my savings goals.  But again, none of this makes any sense to people.

Also, a few months ago, we started be able to expense our cell phone bills since we take company e-mails on them.  After the first round was submitted, my boss asked me why mine was so much less then everyone else's.  I use Republic Wireless, and my bill was like $31.12.  Apparently, every other person on our team had submitted up to the $70 max, and he was flabbergasted that I had such cheap cell service. 

In January, we had to travel for an orientation.  We weren't in the travel expense system yet, so were were asked in December to book our own flights and we would be reimbursed.  I was astounded at the number of people who protested that they couldn't possibly afford a plane ticket in the same month as Christmas. 

Same coworker who outed me as a Mustachian decided to buy a new car, because his car was 5 years old.  Discussed the process at length in our cubicle.  Highlights include - "I've just accepted that I'll always have a car payment,"  the rational that by the time you've paid off a new car it has fallen out of warranty and you'll have to start paying for adhoc repairs, and his wife deciding as he shopped for a car that she missed her old VW and deciding to purchase a VW Jetta at the same time.  I'm currently in negotiations with my local Honda dealership to get the price of a 2015 Fit down to $10k after trade so I can buy it with cash.  I'm taking me time, since mine is only 8 years old and I don't NEED a new one, but the new one is purple and has 8 years newer fancy features.  Said coworker keep trying to convince me that it's a terrible idea to pay cash for a car, and that he's much better off always driving a new car with payments and a warranty. 

One more.  Same two cube-mates discussing Soylent (the geeky meal replacement powdered shakes) as an alternative to actually cooking meals.  I said that it was pretty expensive.  They looked online and found that it would cost $9-10 per person per day, and they both agreed that seemed pretty reasonable.  I said that's more than I budget for groceries for my husband and I per person, how did it compare to their grocery budgets?  Blank stares.  Crickets.  I asked what their grocery budgets were, and both of them looked at me like they didn't understand the question.  Why would you have a grocery budget?  Well, to know how much I have to spend on food.  We make IT money, we can afford to buy groceries.   

I love my cube-mates dearly.  But I'm clearly an alien and now I try very hard to not get drawn into these kinds of conversations. 

dandarc

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8655 on: June 09, 2015, 10:53:55 AM »
One more.  Same two cube-mates discussing Soylent (the geeky meal replacement powdered shakes) as an alternative to actually cooking meals.

Just remember to tell them to stay away from anything green that comes out of those packets.

Seriously - clever name for the product, and that company be well positioned when the dystopian future finally arrives.
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partgypsy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8656 on: June 09, 2015, 11:17:50 AM »
Aargh- I used to sit opposite the most negative, draining woman ever. She was overweight,  loudly claimed it was thyroid (nope, it's the cakes you shove into your gaping maw daily), and would critique every piece of food I brought in, looking for the unhealthy stuff, and then exclaim about the sugary/fatty parts of my lunch, and oh, aren't you lucky, wouldn't it be nice to have a metabolism like yours??? Drove me nuts. I used to put a square of chocolate in my oats each morning in lieu of sweetener, and god, she never failed to tell the whole office about my 'chocolatey' breakfast (never mind the hour I spent in the gym before work, and that it was 10grams of chocolate). She would point out my bananas and handful of nuts and smugly tell me they were way too full of sugar/fat for her, but ooh, lucky naturally skinny you, you can eat it. I wanted to smother her. Sorry, a bit OT. Coworkers.

I believe I've posted this here before, but I have _never_ gotten unsolicited advice on my diet or exercise from someone who was actually fit.

I also find it frustrating when someone who appears to be not-in-the-best-shape makes comments on me eating avocados or nuts or whole eggs (the yolk and all!) or some other thing like that and they claim that it is "high fat - you shouldn't eat it!". Fruits - "too much sugar!". Whole eggs - "the yolks will kill you!". Although I think this may be the types of things they hear from their doctors or some widely accepted (but incorrect) nutritional advice.

Me - I prefer to eat whole natural foods in a balanced way. I usually just stare back at them because, at least from outward appearances, I think I am healthier than they are. But who really knows...I could drop dead tomorrow from eating avocados, nuts, and whole eggs. No one really knows others' internal health.

I never make comments about what I eat, but for some reason there was a period of time (usually overweight) women loved to make comments about what I was eating: "you put beets on your salad? Those are really high in sugar". "I never eat peanut m'ms, only regular m m's, nuts are fattening". "Dried fruit is really high in calories you know". "I wish I could eat what you eat, but I have low glycemic index (self-diagnosed) sugar so I need to eat less carbs" (ordering fried chicken on top of a lettuce salad, drenched with dressing). These were the same people who were literally on some diet all the time, and would love to inform you how this is how you should eat. The particular diet would change around every 6 months. Me, I believe everything in moderation, dieting doesn't help, and that regular exercise is more important than following some ideal food diet, as long as minimize the junk food, fast food and sodas. 

iowajes

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8657 on: June 09, 2015, 11:27:30 AM »

Yup no name brand comes on sale for about .25 a box.

This is the ONE thing I've found that I absolutely will not buy generic.

Chris22

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8658 on: June 09, 2015, 11:45:49 AM »
I did have 2 weeks once where all I ate was KD and hot dogs because that was all I could afford after spending my cheque on stupid stuff. 

KD?  What is that?

Given than the author is Canadian, I'm going to assume Kraft Dinner, aka Kraft Macaroni and Cheese.
Yup no name brand comes on sale for about .25 a box.

Before my senior year in college, my buddies and I rented a house (had to live off campus senior year and had to do a 1-year lease, 9 months not available).  Well, as a 21y/o, obviously if there was a house to be lived in that wasn't with my parents, I was going to live there.  So I did.  My parents helped me out during school, but basically said "if you live at home during the summer you can eat our food for free, if you want to live at school, that's your choice, but you're paying for it."  Okay, no problem.  That's the summer I learned to watch for the 5/$3 sale on Kraft M&C, and I learned where all the ATMs that allowed a $10 withdrawl were instead of $20, etc.  My roommates and I would store up change and go to bars with $.50 drink specials every night, we'd put $2 in one pocket for train fare home and the other pocket would have drinking money, but then you'd be talking to girls and run out of drinking money and make the drunken choice to hoof it back 5 miles (or try to find a closer bed with "companionship") instead of taking the train and drink that last $2....

Those were the days.  Loved it. 
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Joshin

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8659 on: June 09, 2015, 12:16:39 PM »



I find obesity to be similar to people that can't save. It's a simple matter of what matters to each of us individually. The fat women with 'tyroid' problems, is like someone who complains that they can't save their earnings even though they may make 30k more than their mustachain coworker. She may think that skinny people are lucky, and I'm guessing that she will think that people that FIRE in their 30s are depraved or come from money or have some special skill that mere mortals like her lack.



I hate to continue the foam, but I see so many misunderstandings of hypothyroidism that I can't let keep sliding by. While a low thyroid is only responsible for minimal weight gain, it is also responsible for major, major energy loss. When I was diagnosed and given meds, the first thing I noticed was an increase in energy, as in to crazy levels I hadn't felt since my mid-20's. The docs don't tell you this, and they don't tell you to take advantage of it right away, or you will adjust to it and stay lazy.

It's almost impossible to lose weight with no energy. I went from highly active hiking/backpacking and reasonable weight, to overweight and no activity, all over the course of a few years. It took several years for anyone to even mention the thyroid to me, so I though it wa age, lifestyle creep, and stress. I WAS overweight, I'm (almost) not now. I would have been physically and mentally incapable of losing the weight without constant monitoring of the thyroid and proper medication. That is what gave me the energy I needed to exercise both my body and my self restraint. Unfortunately, my experience when I was trying to find a Dr. was most of them saw this condition as a fat woman's disease that would just get worse because it was something fat, lazy women got. Really, it is a disease that can make previously thin, active women fat and lazy. We don't know why it happens, society judges us, out confidence tanks, and we accept the blame, because everyone knows only lazy people get fat.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8660 on: June 09, 2015, 12:36:15 PM »



I find obesity to be similar to people that can't save. It's a simple matter of what matters to each of us individually. The fat women with 'tyroid' problems, is like someone who complains that they can't save their earnings even though they may make 30k more than their mustachain coworker. She may think that skinny people are lucky, and I'm guessing that she will think that people that FIRE in their 30s are depraved or come from money or have some special skill that mere mortals like her lack.



I hate to continue the foam, but I see so many misunderstandings of hypothyroidism that I can't let keep sliding by. While a low thyroid is only responsible for minimal weight gain, it is also responsible for major, major energy loss. When I was diagnosed and given meds, the first thing I noticed was an increase in energy, as in to crazy levels I hadn't felt since my mid-20's. The docs don't tell you this, and they don't tell you to take advantage of it right away, or you will adjust to it and stay lazy.

It's almost impossible to lose weight with no energy. I went from highly active hiking/backpacking and reasonable weight, to overweight and no activity, all over the course of a few years. It took several years for anyone to even mention the thyroid to me, so I though it wa age, lifestyle creep, and stress. I WAS overweight, I'm (almost) not now. I would have been physically and mentally incapable of losing the weight without constant monitoring of the thyroid and proper medication. That is what gave me the energy I needed to exercise both my body and my self restraint. Unfortunately, my experience when I was trying to find a Dr. was most of them saw this condition as a fat woman's disease that would just get worse because it was something fat, lazy women got. Really, it is a disease that can make previously thin, active women fat and lazy. We don't know why it happens, society judges us, out confidence tanks, and we accept the blame, because everyone knows only lazy people get fat.

This makes a lot of sense and I'm sorry for your experience. Thank you for posting this, and I hope that none of my comments were out of line.

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8661 on: June 09, 2015, 01:03:59 PM »
I've got two in the past week.

1.  Can anyone lend me $600 for Yo Gabba Gabba tickets?  Child X really LOVES them but we can't afford to go.  Me "Holy CRAP a kids show is that expensive?!?!"  Her "Well, that's the first 15 rows and you get a back stage VIP pass, only the best for child X (who is all of maybe 3 and won't remember anything about this meeting"  Mind you I am pretty sure they are still paying off around 60k in credit card debt that she wracked up before getting married.

2.  Co Worker who gets in large boxes from fancy stores all the time and routinely spends hundreds a week on clothes.   "Ugh, our home health aid wants a raise, I TOLD her 4 years ago when we hired her there would be no raises because we can't afford it".  Me: "Well how much are you paying her"  Her "800 a month for both of my parents who are on dialysis and live in NYC"  Her and her husband pull in over 200k (probably closer to 250) a year combined, this aid takes care of her parents 24-7 365 because she doesn't want to have to deal with them and when I asked she swore poverty that she couldn't afford an extra 50 a month to pay this woman (under the table mind you)...aaaand she just spent 3k, on a couch that she was flashing pictures in the office of...  We continued to talk and I brought up early retirement and got the "I don't know how you can save on our crappy salaries, we can only save 300 a month"....she earns about 20-30k more a year than me, and I'm pushing 90 a year.
I misread #2 at first.  I thought Co worker got INTO boxes so that perhaps she could entertain her young children by jumping out of them instead of taking them to a silly concert.  Honestly, those Gabba Gabba things are costumes!  put a pillowcase over your head, draw eyes on them, and dance around for your youngster.  They don't know the difference (or maybe they just don't care because it's still entertainment).

My mom tells a story all the time about how she fooled me when I was 3 or 4 and wanted a certain doll for Christmas. "Baby Go Bye Bye".  She said it's all I ever spoke of.  When she finally found it, she was appalled by how expensive it was and how flimsy it was and refused to pay the price.  So she found a very inexpensive toy car and a cheap baby doll that she said was much much nicer.  The baby didn't come anywhere close to fitting into the car, they were two completely different scales.  But when I saw it on Xmas morning, I screamed with delight and never knew the difference. 

Kids do not know the difference between the real thing and a substitute.  And I have absolutely no recollection of anything at 3 years old anyway.  I do know that I ended up drawing all over that baby's face with permanent marker though. 
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

Kris

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8662 on: June 09, 2015, 01:29:12 PM »
Said coworker keep trying to convince me that it's a terrible idea to pay cash for a car, and that he's much better off always driving a new car with payments and a warranty. 

Lolwut?

What could his rationale have possibly been?  I am very curious!
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wenchsenior

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8663 on: June 09, 2015, 02:24:12 PM »



I find obesity to be similar to people that can't save. It's a simple matter of what matters to each of us individually. The fat women with 'tyroid' problems, is like someone who complains that they can't save their earnings even though they may make 30k more than their mustachain coworker. She may think that skinny people are lucky, and I'm guessing that she will think that people that FIRE in their 30s are depraved or come from money or have some special skill that mere mortals like her lack.



I hate to continue the foam, but I see so many misunderstandings of hypothyroidism that I can't let keep sliding by. While a low thyroid is only responsible for minimal weight gain, it is also responsible for major, major energy loss. When I was diagnosed and given meds, the first thing I noticed was an increase in energy, as in to crazy levels I hadn't felt since my mid-20's. The docs don't tell you this, and they don't tell you to take advantage of it right away, or you will adjust to it and stay lazy.

It's almost impossible to lose weight with no energy. I went from highly active hiking/backpacking and reasonable weight, to overweight and no activity, all over the course of a few years. It took several years for anyone to even mention the thyroid to me, so I though it wa age, lifestyle creep, and stress. I WAS overweight, I'm (almost) not now. I would have been physically and mentally incapable of losing the weight without constant monitoring of the thyroid and proper medication. That is what gave me the energy I needed to exercise both my body and my self restraint. Unfortunately, my experience when I was trying to find a Dr. was most of them saw this condition as a fat woman's disease that would just get worse because it was something fat, lazy women got. Really, it is a disease that can make previously thin, active women fat and lazy. We don't know why it happens, society judges us, out confidence tanks, and we accept the blame, because everyone knows only lazy people get fat.

For skipping over purposes: FOAM ALERT...

Just adding to the foam to agree. My husband developed hypothyroid in his early 40s...he had always been super active, and all of a sudden he wanted to sleep all the time. He gained some weight...but the problem was mostly his fitness level plummeted. With medication, he went back to to normal.

Weight is such a crazy combo of genetic, environmental, and behavioral factors. In addition to medical conditions (diabetes, PCOS, and pituitary disorders also can contribute to/cause weight gain in kind of a chicken/egg cycle), bodies often have plateau weights that they 'like'.  I'm 5'4" and 102 lbs at 44 years old, which is the same weight as I was in college.  I would love to take a lot of credit for this, but it's somewhat a fluke of my metabolism. I'm not a very consistent or intense exerciser, but I do eat generally unprocessed, plant-heavy diet. I eat a lot of healthy fats. My weight is a little too low, but right now, I can't GAIN weight (except by weight training)...I actively tried for 9 months and finally gave up. I just can't eat enough food except by liquid calories, which I get sick of. My body just burns it off with no effort. At other times in my life my body seemed to cling effortlessly to my next highest 'plateau' weight of 113-115 lbs. I wasn't doing much different then...body just liked it there better when I was in my late 30s.

Meh. Bodies are just so weird and individual that I  that I really hesitate to judge peoples' weight unless I regularly (like, nearly every day) see someone stuffing their face with processed or unhealthy food and know for sure they never exercise. And even then, food can be addictive...and unlike other substances, you can't 'quit' food, so you if you are susceptible to overeating, you are always at risk.

jba302

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8664 on: June 09, 2015, 02:46:11 PM »
"I wish I could eat what you eat, but I have low glycemic index (self-diagnosed) sugar so I need to eat less carbs"


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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8665 on: June 09, 2015, 02:54:12 PM »
Meh. Bodies are just so weird and individual that I  that I really hesitate to judge peoples' weight unless I regularly (like, nearly every day) see someone stuffing their face with processed or unhealthy food and know for sure they never exercise. And even then, food can be addictive...and unlike other substances, you can't 'quit' food, so you if you are susceptible to overeating, you are always at risk.

Please don't take what I'm about to say personally...this is merely my observation.

I don't understand why somebody can't just "quit" food. I have three uncles who smoked for 10+ years and all three quit cold turkey, and this was back when all manly men smoked.

If you're not supposed to eat it, don't eat it.

If you can't stand being around it and can't control yourself, don't buy it, or, avoid it.

I have yet to personally meet somebody who is overweight (based on BMI) who does not have some sort of food indulgence that they should not be into (soda, cake, fatty foods etc.)...and I'm not even taking exercise into consideration.

The fittest guys (read thin) in my workplace are the ones that exercise regularly, and eat healthy. They are the ones that don't eat the cake from the monthly birthday parties, or partake in the unhealthy free breakfasts and lunches.

But then again, it could all just be a coincidence since my sample size is so small.

dividend

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8666 on: June 09, 2015, 02:59:31 PM »
Said coworker keep trying to convince me that it's a terrible idea to pay cash for a car, and that he's much better off always driving a new car with payments and a warranty. 

Lolwut?

What could his rationale have possibly been?  I am very curious!

His argument is a mix  of :
  • You're always better off borrowing money if the interest rate is less than inflation or then you can make investing it, otherwise you actually LOSE money.  Hint : he doesn' t actually invest the money.
  • If the car ages out of warranty, then you have to start paying for maintenance yourself.  So clearly the better option is to always drive a new car with a warranty and then you never have to come up with money if the car needs repairs.  Instead of, ya know, having a budget line item for vehicle maintenance.
  • By taking out a car loan, you get a five year newer, better car with tomorrow's dollars, which, presumably are going to worth less.
  • Once you pay off your car loan, the money is already in your budget for the next one.
I adore him, but something I just can't even with him. 
We agreed to disagree about the second day of our friendship, and we've been having this same exact argument since 2006 when he went with me to buy the car I'm currently driving.

Indexer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8667 on: June 09, 2015, 04:58:35 PM »
His argument is a mix  of :
  • You're always better off borrowing money if the interest rate is less than inflation or then you can make investing it, otherwise you actually LOSE money.  Hint : he doesn' t actually invest the money.
  • If the car ages out of warranty, then you have to start paying for maintenance yourself.  So clearly the better option is to always drive a new car with a warranty and then you never have to come up with money if the car needs repairs.  Instead of, ya know, having a budget line item for vehicle maintenance.
  • By taking out a car loan, you get a five year newer, better car with tomorrow's dollars, which, presumably are going to worth less.
  • Once you pay off your car loan, the money is already in your budget for the next one.
I adore him, but something I just can't even with him. 
We agreed to disagree about the second day of our friendship, and we've been having this same exact argument since 2006 when he went with me to buy the car I'm currently driving.

Um.... bullet point 1 would make sense if it was a house... but we are talking about a new car.  The car is depreciating.....  You are still losing money.

I don't even need to address the other 3 bullet points, at least not on this forum. 

dycker1978

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8668 on: June 09, 2015, 05:02:41 PM »
Meh. Bodies are just so weird and individual that I  that I really hesitate to judge peoples' weight unless I regularly (like, nearly every day) see someone stuffing their face with processed or unhealthy food and know for sure they never exercise. And even then, food can be addictive...and unlike other substances, you can't 'quit' food, so you if you are susceptible to overeating, you are always at risk.

Please don't take what I'm about to say personally...this is merely my observation.

I don't understand why somebody can't just "quit" food. I have three uncles who smoked for 10+ years and all three quit cold turkey, and this was back when all manly men smoked.

If you're not supposed to eat it, don't eat it.

If you can't stand being around it and can't control yourself, don't buy it, or, avoid it.

I have yet to personally meet somebody who is overweight (based on BMI) who does not have some sort of food indulgence that they should not be into (soda, cake, fatty foods etc.)...and I'm not even taking exercise into consideration.

The fittest guys (read thin) in my workplace are the ones that exercise regularly, and eat healthy. They are the ones that don't eat the cake from the monthly birthday parties, or partake in the unhealthy free breakfasts and lunches.

But then again, it could all just be a coincidence since my sample size is so small.

Just an FYI Dwayne Johnston(the Rock from WWE) is obese according to BMI.  Not the best scale to measure on.

https://www.yahoo.com/health/why-dwayne-the-rock-johnson-is-technically-obese-117180855078.html

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8669 on: June 09, 2015, 06:32:03 PM »
I'm overweight based on BMI. I am 4'11" tall and weigh 127 pounds.

I do not overindulge in any one food. Obviously I overindulge a little in ALL of them and need to spend more time on my bike. But then, I don't think I "look" overweight by American standards these days, so maybe I'm not in the previous poster's sample.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8670 on: June 09, 2015, 06:51:11 PM »
"I wish I could eat what you eat, but I have low glycemic index (self-diagnosed) sugar so I need to eat less carbs"



Think [ETA: partgypsy's coworker or whomever) probably means that he/she has reactive hypoglycemia, and therefore needs to eat foods low on the glycemic index to keep blood sugar from spiking and then crashing. I have the same condition. It is similar to eating how a diabetic would. But I realize you were commenting on the irony of the saturated fat].
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 06:54:57 PM by wenchsenior »

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8671 on: June 09, 2015, 07:04:15 PM »
Meh. Bodies are just so weird and individual that I  that I really hesitate to judge peoples' weight unless I regularly (like, nearly every day) see someone stuffing their face with processed or unhealthy food and know for sure they never exercise. And even then, food can be addictive...and unlike other substances, you can't 'quit' food, so you if you are susceptible to overeating, you are always at risk.

Please don't take what I'm about to say personally...this is merely my observation.

I don't understand why somebody can't just "quit" food. I have three uncles who smoked for 10+ years and all three quit cold turkey, and this was back when all manly men smoked.

If you're not supposed to eat it, don't eat it.

If you can't stand being around it and can't control yourself, don't buy it, or, avoid it.

I have yet to personally meet somebody who is overweight (based on BMI) who does not have some sort of food indulgence that they should not be into (soda, cake, fatty foods etc.)...and I'm not even taking exercise into consideration.

The fittest guys (read thin) in my workplace are the ones that exercise regularly, and eat healthy. They are the ones that don't eat the cake from the monthly birthday parties, or partake in the unhealthy free breakfasts and lunches.

But then again, it could all just be a coincidence since my sample size is so small.

No, I generally agree with you. Most weight gain is totally preventable.

All I meant is, people have to eat food to live. You don't have to smoke or drink or do drugs or gamble or have sex or whatever to survive. Food is, for most people, also a source of IMMENSE pleasure, so even eating healthy foods, it's easy for some people slip into overindulgence.  I've also met some people who literally HATE the taste/texture of vegetables and fruit. This is an alien concept to me, but then, I find the fact that people don't want to eat salad 4 or 5 times a week baffling. That would be difficult hurdle to cross every day, forever.

But yes, exercise and eating well will keep most peoples' weight stable, and that requires some discipline and (mostly) just good habits. At least with me it's mostly habit.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8672 on: June 09, 2015, 07:06:23 PM »
Meh. Bodies are just so weird and individual that I  that I really hesitate to judge peoples' weight unless I regularly (like, nearly every day) see someone stuffing their face with processed or unhealthy food and know for sure they never exercise. And even then, food can be addictive...and unlike other substances, you can't 'quit' food, so you if you are susceptible to overeating, you are always at risk.

Please don't take what I'm about to say personally...this is merely my observation.

I don't understand why somebody can't just "quit" food. I have three uncles who smoked for 10+ years and all three quit cold turkey, and this was back when all manly men smoked.

If you're not supposed to eat it, don't eat it.

If you can't stand being around it and can't control yourself, don't buy it, or, avoid it.

I have yet to personally meet somebody who is overweight (based on BMI) who does not have some sort of food indulgence that they should not be into (soda, cake, fatty foods etc.)...and I'm not even taking exercise into consideration.

The fittest guys (read thin) in my workplace are the ones that exercise regularly, and eat healthy. They are the ones that don't eat the cake from the monthly birthday parties, or partake in the unhealthy free breakfasts and lunches.

But then again, it could all just be a coincidence since my sample size is so small.

No, I generally agree with you. Most weight gain is totally preventable.

All I meant is, people have to eat food to live. You don't have to smoke or drink or do drugs or gamble or have sex or whatever to survive. Food is, for most people, also a source of IMMENSE pleasure, so even eating healthy foods, it's easy for some people slip into overindulgence.  I've also met some people who literally HATE the taste/texture of vegetables and fruit. This is an alien concept to me, but then, I find the fact that people don't want to eat salad 4 or 5 times a week baffling. That would be difficult hurdle to cross every day, forever.

But yes, exercise and eating well will keep most peoples' weight stable, and that requires some discipline and (mostly) just good habits. At least with me it's mostly habit.

Pretty sure sex is a required part of survival. Not of yourself, but of your species.

Migrator Soul

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8673 on: June 09, 2015, 07:14:18 PM »
Pretty sure sex is a required part of survival. Not of yourself, but of your species.

No, I am pretty sure its required for the survival of my sanity, and thus, by extension, myself. :D

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8674 on: June 09, 2015, 07:17:58 PM »
....... My weight is a little too low, but right now, I can't GAIN weight (except by weight training)...I actively tried for 9 months and finally gave up. I just can't eat enough food except by liquid calories, which I get sick of. My body just burns it off with no effort.

Your answer is BEER.  --- at least it works for me  :-)

But seriously:
Hyperthyrodism?  Have you been to the doctor to check it out?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8675 on: June 09, 2015, 08:34:40 PM »
Pretty sure sex is a required part of survival. Not of yourself, but of your species.

No, I am pretty sure its required for the survival of my sanity, and thus, by extension, myself. :D
Today's SMBC is very topical.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8676 on: June 09, 2015, 08:39:07 PM »
Pretty sure sex is a required part of survival. Not of yourself, but of your species.

No, I am pretty sure its required for the survival of my sanity, and thus, by extension, myself. :D
Today's SMBC is very topical.

You sir, have made my night.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8677 on: June 09, 2015, 08:44:15 PM »
Glad to be of service.

Kris

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8678 on: June 09, 2015, 09:00:33 PM »
Said coworker keep trying to convince me that it's a terrible idea to pay cash for a car, and that he's much better off always driving a new car with payments and a warranty. 

Lolwut?

What could his rationale have possibly been?  I am very curious!

His argument is a mix  of :
  • You're always better off borrowing money if the interest rate is less than inflation or then you can make investing it, otherwise you actually LOSE money.  Hint : he doesn' t actually invest the money.
  • If the car ages out of warranty, then you have to start paying for maintenance yourself.  So clearly the better option is to always drive a new car with a warranty and then you never have to come up with money if the car needs repairs.  Instead of, ya know, having a budget line item for vehicle maintenance.
  • By taking out a car loan, you get a five year newer, better car with tomorrow's dollars, which, presumably are going to worth less.
  • Once you pay off your car loan, the money is already in your budget for the next one.
I adore him, but something I just can't even with him. 
We agreed to disagree about the second day of our friendship, and we've been having this same exact argument since 2006 when he went with me to buy the car I'm currently driving.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ...
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

Migrator Soul

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8679 on: June 09, 2015, 09:03:41 PM »
Said coworker keep trying to convince me that it's a terrible idea to pay cash for a car, and that he's much better off always driving a new car with payments and a warranty. 

Lolwut?

What could his rationale have possibly been?  I am very curious!

His argument is a mix  of :
  • You're always better off borrowing money if the interest rate is less than inflation or then you can make investing it, otherwise you actually LOSE money.  Hint : he doesn' t actually invest the money.
  • If the car ages out of warranty, then you have to start paying for maintenance yourself.  So clearly the better option is to always drive a new car with a warranty and then you never have to come up with money if the car needs repairs.  Instead of, ya know, having a budget line item for vehicle maintenance.
  • By taking out a car loan, you get a five year newer, better car with tomorrow's dollars, which, presumably are going to worth less.
  • Once you pay off your car loan, the money is already in your budget for the next one.
I adore him, but something I just can't even with him. 
We agreed to disagree about the second day of our friendship, and we've been having this same exact argument since 2006 when he went with me to buy the car I'm currently driving.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ...

Dude sounds like half the privates in my unit. If only they listened to me... one can dream, right?

wenchsenior

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8680 on: June 10, 2015, 06:14:23 AM »
....... My weight is a little too low, but right now, I can't GAIN weight (except by weight training)...I actively tried for 9 months and finally gave up. I just can't eat enough food except by liquid calories, which I get sick of. My body just burns it off with no effort.

Your answer is BEER.  --- at least it works for me  :-)

But seriously:
Hyperthyrodism?  Have you been to the doctor to check it out?

HA! My mom keeps trying to get me to drink stout LOL, but I really only like beer occasionally. I drink wine with dinner, but that doesn't have quite a much an effect for weight gain. And yes, I've had all kinds of tests, repeatedly. I have a lot of mild, chronic health-related issues, some diagnosed, some possibly unid'd autoimmune that tests have never specifically diagnosed. I'm not sure my weight has any relation to that, though. Like I said, I was the same weight in college after dropping about 20 lbs from my high school weight. And I held it stable pretty easily back then, too.

RunHappy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8681 on: June 10, 2015, 06:26:13 AM »
At work I was listening to people brag about the length of their commutes.  One guy was 45 minutes, another was 1h 15m, another guy chimed in that they are looking at houses where the commute would be 1h 30m.

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8682 on: June 10, 2015, 07:51:11 AM »
His argument is a mix  of :
  • You're always better off borrowing money if the interest rate is less than inflation or then you can make investing it, otherwise you actually LOSE money.  Hint : he doesn' t actually invest the money.
  • If the car ages out of warranty, then you have to start paying for maintenance yourself.  So clearly the better option is to always drive a new car with a warranty and then you never have to come up with money if the car needs repairs.  Instead of, ya know, having a budget line item for vehicle maintenance.
  • By taking out a car loan, you get a five year newer, better car with tomorrow's dollars, which, presumably are going to worth less.
  • Once you pay off your car loan, the money is already in your budget for the next one.
I adore him, but something I just can't even with him. 
We agreed to disagree about the second day of our friendship, and we've been having this same exact argument since 2006 when he went with me to buy the car I'm currently driving.

Um.... bullet point 1 would make sense if it was a house... but we are talking about a new car.  The car is depreciating.....  You are still losing money.

More foam.

The actual value of the asset you're borrowing against has no relation to whether or not you should borrow to invest or pay cash.

An extreme example: I borrow $100 from you to buy a cat picture from the internet. Market value of the cat picture is $0, but I want to pay $100 and find someone willing to take it. You charge me 5% interest over a year, so at the end of one year, I owe you $105. At the same time I borrow from you and buy the cat picture, I find a bond willing to pay 10% interest, so I give them $100, and a year later get $110 back.

Year end results:
Pay cash: me $0, cat picture seller $100
Borrow and invest: you $5, bond issuer -$10, me $5, cat picture seller $100

But the real lesson here is that it's best to sell cat pictures and new cars to suckers.

DaveInVirginia

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8683 on: June 10, 2015, 08:09:34 AM »
CW:  My roommate has been eating fast food every night since our microwave broke last month.

Me: You can get a microwave off of craigslist for like 20 bucks.

CW:  We have a microwave that's connected to our stove and range.  It's probably gonna be a couple hundred to get fixed.  I never even use it, I cook my own food on the stove and range.  But he gets home late and has frozen microwave dinners every night because he's trying to lose weight.

Me: I don't think frozen dinners are very good for losing weight.  They're loaded with sugar and artificial crap.

CW:  I know but he doesn't know how to cook, so it's either those or the drive-thru.  He doesn't like the food I eat.

Me:  So instead of buying a cheap microwave or learning how to cook, he's going out for dinner every night?  Why doesn't he fix the microwave?

CW:  He says he can't right now, he needs the extra money for the drive-thru.

Me:  [palm-to-forehead].  So I guess he hasn't lost much weight either.

CW:  No, he's probably gained some.

Me:  Wait a minute, you guys are renting, right?  Why don't you have your landlord fix the f%$ing microwave?

CW:  I don't think that's included in our lease.  Do landlords usually pay for stuff like that?

Me: [I need a new job]

Rural

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8684 on: June 10, 2015, 08:13:54 AM »
His argument is a mix  of :
  • You're always better off borrowing money if the interest rate is less than inflation or then you can make investing it, otherwise you actually LOSE money.  Hint : he doesn' t actually invest the money.
  • If the car ages out of warranty, then you have to start paying for maintenance yourself.  So clearly the better option is to always drive a new car with a warranty and then you never have to come up with money if the car needs repairs.  Instead of, ya know, having a budget line item for vehicle maintenance.
  • By taking out a car loan, you get a five year newer, better car with tomorrow's dollars, which, presumably are going to worth less.
  • Once you pay off your car loan, the money is already in your budget for the next one.
I adore him, but something I just can't even with him. 
We agreed to disagree about the second day of our friendship, and we've been having this same exact argument since 2006 when he went with me to buy the car I'm currently driving.

Um.... bullet point 1 would make sense if it was a house... but we are talking about a new car.  The car is depreciating.....  You are still losing money.

More foam.

The actual value of the asset you're borrowing against has no relation to whether or not you should borrow to invest or pay cash.

An extreme example: I borrow $100 from you to buy a cat picture from the internet. Market value of the cat picture is $0, but I want to pay $100 and find someone willing to take it. You charge me 5% interest over a year, so at the end of one year, I owe you $105. At the same time I borrow from you and buy the cat picture, I find a bond willing to pay 10% interest, so I give them $100, and a year later get $110 back.

Year end results:
Pay cash: me $0, cat picture seller $100
Borrow and invest: you $5, bond issuer -$10, me $5, cat picture seller $100


But the real lesson here is that it's best to sell cat pictures and new cars to suckers.


I think your breakdown would be more like this:


Pay cash: me $0, cat picture seller $100Borrow and invest: you $5, bond issuer -$10, me -$95, cat picture seller $100

Indexer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8685 on: June 10, 2015, 05:10:14 PM »
His argument is a mix  of :
  • You're always better off borrowing money if the interest rate is less than inflation or then you can make investing it, otherwise you actually LOSE money.  Hint : he doesn' t actually invest the money.
  • If the car ages out of warranty, then you have to start paying for maintenance yourself.  So clearly the better option is to always drive a new car with a warranty and then you never have to come up with money if the car needs repairs.  Instead of, ya know, having a budget line item for vehicle maintenance.
  • By taking out a car loan, you get a five year newer, better car with tomorrow's dollars, which, presumably are going to worth less.
  • Once you pay off your car loan, the money is already in your budget for the next one.
I adore him, but something I just can't even with him. 
We agreed to disagree about the second day of our friendship, and we've been having this same exact argument since 2006 when he went with me to buy the car I'm currently driving.

Um.... bullet point 1 would make sense if it was a house... but we are talking about a new car.  The car is depreciating.....  You are still losing money.

More foam.

The actual value of the asset you're borrowing against has no relation to whether or not you should borrow to invest or pay cash.


Foam?  I'm not really sure what this is referring to?

The value doesn't really matter.  Whether it appreciates or depreciates does, and that is what I was referring to.  The original quote referenced investing the money, but the guy is actually buying a car.

Car:  If I borrow 20k to buy a car that is worth 20k today, but I'm paying interest and the car is depreciating at the end I will likely have ended up paying 30k for something that is only worth 10k at the end of the period.  20k loss.

Investing:  If you borrow 100k to buy an appreciating asset(stocks) where the growth rate is equal to or greater than the interest rate you can actually end up in a situation where you paid 200k(with interest) for something that is worth 200k or even 300k.  0 profit or 100k profit.  It could also drop off a cliff.  I'm not advocating either idea.  I was just pointing out borrowing money to buy a depreciating asset is a much worse idea than using it to buy an appreciating asset.

ender

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8686 on: June 10, 2015, 05:43:47 PM »
You're missing the opportunity cost factor.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8687 on: June 10, 2015, 06:41:07 PM »

Foam?  I'm not really sure what this is referring to?


You clearly haven't read this entire thread ;)
Down the rabbit hole

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iamlindoro

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8688 on: June 10, 2015, 06:43:20 PM »
You clearly haven't read this entire thread ;)

Nobody's read the entire thread.  It's officially longer than a Proust novel.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8689 on: June 10, 2015, 06:46:53 PM »
You clearly haven't read this entire thread ;)

Nobody's read the entire thread.  It's officially longer than a Proust novel.

You clearly haven't read my signature ;)

Also here is where "foam" started (and is defined, we have NoraLenderbee to thank):
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/4500/
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 06:48:30 PM by QueenAlice »
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Indexer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8690 on: June 10, 2015, 06:53:12 PM »

Foam?  I'm not really sure what this is referring to?


You clearly haven't read this entire thread ;)

Actually... I have read most of it.  A few pages at a time.

Thanks for the link QueenAlice.  I agree.  It was starting to get a bit foamy. 

Now we are getting foamy about the topic of foam.  ;)

Rural

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8691 on: June 10, 2015, 07:16:57 PM »

Foam?  I'm not really sure what this is referring to?


You clearly haven't read this entire thread ;)

Actually... I have read most of it.  A few pages at a time.

Thanks for the link QueenAlice.  I agree.  It was starting to get a bit foamy. 

Now we are getting foamy about the topic of foam.  ;)


Not the first time that's happened in this thread.




solon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8692 on: June 10, 2015, 07:25:57 PM »
Anyone remember black boxes?

greenmimama

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8693 on: June 10, 2015, 07:29:52 PM »
Anyone remember black boxes?

You mean orange boxes?

And yes, I have read the entire thread.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8694 on: June 10, 2015, 07:39:27 PM »
I have also read the entire thread.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8695 on: June 10, 2015, 07:46:04 PM »
Damn right I've read it all, 8855 posts over 2 and a half years since it's started. That's like 10 posts per day. Slow and steady wins the race, people!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8696 on: June 10, 2015, 08:30:27 PM »
Damn right I've read it all, 8855 posts over 2 and a half years since it's started. That's like 10 posts per day. Slow and steady wins the race, people!
I had surgery in early December 2014, and got four weeks of (paid!) FMLA.  Reading this thread from start to finish was one of my time-killing activities!  I think it actually took me about three months to work through the whole thing.  Anyhow, you can stuff that foam in your black/orange box!  ;-)

iamlindoro

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8697 on: June 10, 2015, 09:19:44 PM »
Damn right I've read it all, 8855 posts over 2 and a half years since it's started. That's like 10 posts per day. Slow and steady wins the race, people!

Respect, but I felt it got pretty boring about 150 pages ago, and I quit, like a big quitty quitter.  There's the occasional highlight that actually qualifies for hall of shame, but it has mostly disintegrated into street-level, average poor financial management.

And yet, here I am.  Mostly to keep my unread replies list empty, I guess.
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dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8698 on: June 10, 2015, 09:43:28 PM »
I have also read the entire thread.

Me too... hey has anyone else read this thread?  If so, please speak up, it might be your last chance

TheBuddha

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #8699 on: June 10, 2015, 11:40:24 PM »
I've read the whole thing too...
Debt-free as of 9/11/15. Paid off $50k in 3.5 years.