Overheard at Work

[runningthroughFIRE]

How many assholes are on this ship?

I knew it.  I'm surrounded by assholes.

Keep firing, assholes!

[shelivesthedream]

It is already simple, just use "everyone" to mean everyone - no need to deal with the various connotations of the other terms you suggest.

Even simpler!

Uh, but, like, "everyONE" might, like, alienate Siamese twins. </joke> Maybe it's time to drop this foam. It's not like anybody is changing anybody else's mind.

[cavewoman]

At my job I determine eligibility for TANF (cash aid)  SNAP (foodstamps) and Medicaid.

50% of the time _{(statistic made up and in no way accurate)}  if they own a vehicle, it is way nicer and newer than mine.

In my front brain, I know that I shouldn't get annoyed by this.  But sometimes..... I just want to slip out a little facepunch.

[Taran Wanderer]

We have a woman at work who is married, mid fifties, no kids, she and her husband both work, and she says they have to work because they don't have enough to retire.  She talks about their 3500sf house, 3000sf shop with car lift, new cars, and their wonderful doggies that require so much care. Her husband wants to retire, but they can't unless they downsize, and they don't (or she doesn't?) want to downsize. All I can think is WTF?

And this woman is our corporate treasurer.

[Silverado]

It is already simple, just use "everyone" to mean everyone - no need to deal with the various connotations of the other terms you suggest.

Even simpler!

Uh, but, like, "everyONE" might, like, alienate Siamese twins. </joke> Maybe it's time to drop this foam. It's not like anybody is changing anybody else's mind.

Well, i'm going to give the 'folks' thing a go. Can't say it will stick, but its worth a try.

Why? The individuals who have the self esteem issue should change. This continued wussification saddens me. Oh well.

On another topic, are people watching the bogleheads discussion on beater driving? Some of that is funny.

[zolotiyeruki]

On another topic, are people watching the bogleheads discussion on beater driving? Some of that is funny.

Link please?

[I'm a red panda]

Why? The individuals who have the self esteem issue should change. This continued wussification saddens me. Oh well.

What the hell does not accepting lack of representation have to do with low self esteem?  The fact that some people are willing to speak out about this rather than just accept the male dominated world speaks to me of HIGHER self esteem. 

Do you think all minorities should just 'grow a thicker skin' or just women?

[SweetLife]

Ho-hum ... I am a women and prefer not to worry about "everyone's/you all's/people's/guys/gents/insert appropriate term here" reasons for saying  "everyone's/you all's/people's/guys/gents/insert appropriate term here" ... in fact, I try not to listen to much of what is said at work that does not deal directly with what I do ... am toooo busy counting my little soldiers .... one soldier, two soldier, three soldier ... go to work for me!!! :)

[Shamantha]

Do you think all minorities should just 'grow a thicker skin' or just women?

A minority? Women??? :-)

I address people in my team as guys whether they are men or women, and people are fine with that, I am as well, there are way more serious issues than colloqial terms that imply gender in how you address a group. What does bother me at work is people refusing to shake my hand because I am a woman. And no amount of creating a thicker skin or embracing cultural diversity can make me feel OK about this.

[mm1970]

Do you think all minorities should just 'grow a thicker skin' or just women?

A minority? Women??? :-)

I address people in my team as guys whether they are men or women, and people are fine with that, I am as well, there are way more serious issues than colloqial terms that imply gender in how you address a group. What does bother me at work is people refusing to shake my hand because I am a woman. And no amount of creating a thicker skin or embracing cultural diversity can make me feel OK about this.

Yes.  In my engineering company, we have two buildings.  I officially have all four stalls in my building to myself now, as the only woman in my building. 

The other building has more women.  The bulk of them not engineering.

In my PTA board meetings, the one dude is the minority.
At work, not so much.

[zephyr911]

Mmm, such sweet delicious foam!

[Pooperman]

Mmm, such sweet delicious foam!

Only 197 pages of it!

[zephyr911]

What in the fuck is that?

[Pooperman]

What in the fuck is that?

A chemical reaction that creates foam very quickly--one that should not have been put into a soda bottle. You can find demonstrations of it in tall cylinders where the foam still shoots out, but not 30ft+ (if not stopped by the ceiling).

Edit: Here's another video (less explosive, and more explanatory): https://youtu.be/Ejyy5ATouw8. It's a reaction between Sodium Iodide and Hydrogen Peroxide where the released oxygen is captured by dish soap.

[zephyr911]

A chemical reaction that creates foam very quickly--one that should not have been put into a soda bottle. You can find demonstrations of it in tall cylinders where the foam still shoots out, but not 30ft+ (if not stopped by the ceiling).

Who says they shouldn't have done that? I, for one, celebrate their choice to do so! ;)

[Pooperman]

A chemical reaction that creates foam very quickly--one that should not have been put into a soda bottle. You can find demonstrations of it in tall cylinders where the foam still shoots out, but not 30ft+ (if not stopped by the ceiling).

Who says they shouldn't have done that? I, for one, celebrate their choice to do so! ;)

You replied a bit quickly, but I put a link for you in the post above yours and an explanation of what is going on. But yeah, foam.

[zephyr911]

You replied a bit quickly, but I put a link for you in the post above yours and an explanation of what is going on. But yeah, foam.

That was fun!

BACK ON TOPIC:
Group of CW's just came in from the cafe'. I appear to have been disinvited from the breakfast club, which I used to go along with daily but have been participating in less and less, or tagging along without buying anything. Was it something I said?
Oh well, back to using up my instant oatmeal packets so I can graduate to bulk oats and push my FIRE date up by a week. MMM FTW ;)

[shotgunwilly]

So, just curious, what bothers you about him saying fellas? I can't imagine it's to degrade women?

Most people do not use these words to INTENTIONALLY degrade women; they are rarely meant as slurs. But as a society, defaulting to the male -minimizes- the presence and importance of women.

Pure BS. Suck it up, grow a thicker skin, and worry about something worthwhile.

Bad mood on a Saturday here, sorry y'all.

Pure BS. Representation matters. Feeling included in a work environment and not maligned matters. Some people would let "guys" slide, as it's become fairly gender neutral in use; fellas is clearly male leaning. Why not the term "everyone"? It's an easy change to make, and goes a long way in creating a more equitable environment.

Perhaps unrelated, but it popped in my head when I saw this thread: https://thenib.com/lighten-up-4f7f96ca8a7e

Ok you nudged me. Make it simple, from this point forward, guys, fellas, et. al. identically mean "everyone". That way, everyone needs to change a little bit. Words change and evolve all the time.

Or, just go with 'allgender' as a fully neww term. And link everything to mean that.

It is already simple, just use "everyone" to mean everyone - no need to deal with the various connotations of the other terms you suggest.

Even simpler!

MOD NOTE: SEE FORUMS RULES WHEN YOUR TEMPORARY BAN IS OVER

[grantmeaname]

Not gender neutral, but not just slang for a vagina either.

But I'm sure your willy just made an honest mistake.

[zephyr911]

Not gender neutral, but not just slang for a vagina either.

But I'm sure your willy just made an honest mistake.

What a pusillanimous dick.

[shotgunwilly]

Not gender neutral, but not just slang for a vagina either.

But I'm sure your willy just made an honest mistake.

What a pusillanimous dick.

Wankers. :D

[gimp]

I think from now on, I will refer to groups of people as "males" instead. Just to really piss off anyone who gets annoyed by gendered pronouns. "Hey you males, how's it going?"

[retireatbirth]

Got an email at work. Aon Hewitt says I'm on track to retire in 32 years! I can pay them for the details on how they figured that out. The 32 years is just when I turn 65.

[mustachepungoeshere]

Colleague is on the phone - during work hours - trying to renegotiate his car lease, to lower the payments to something he can afford.

He's 59, he and his wife are DINKs.

>.<

[nobodyspecial]

Got an email at work. Aon Hewitt says I'm on track to retire in 32 years! I can pay them for the details on how they figured that out. The 32 years is just when I turn 65.

Was sitting in a meeting this morning working out that I can retire in 3years on $24K pa.
I was so bored that I was doing the multiplication long hand while pretending to take notes.

[Cheddar Stacker]

Got an email at work. Aon Hewitt says I'm on track to retire in 32 years! I can pay them for the details on how they figured that out. The 32 years is just when I turn 65.

So did you pay them to find out their magical formula?

[forummm]

Got an email at work. Aon Hewitt says I'm on track to retire in 32 years! I can pay them for the details on how they figured that out. The 32 years is just when I turn 65.

So did you pay them to find out their magical formula?

The magic formula is: retireatbirth(-$$$) -> Aon Hewitt(+$$$)

[mustachepungoeshere]

Got an email at work. Aon Hewitt says I'm on track to retire in 32 years! I can pay them for the details on how they figured that out. The 32 years is just when I turn 65.

Was sitting in a meeting this morning working out that I can retire in 3years on $24K pa.
I was so bored that I was doing the multiplication long hand while pretending to take notes.

This forum is just full of skills I don't possess...

[forummm]

Got an email at work. Aon Hewitt says I'm on track to retire in 32 years! I can pay them for the details on how they figured that out. The 32 years is just when I turn 65.

Was sitting in a meeting this morning working out that I can retire in 3years on $24K pa.
I was so bored that I was doing the multiplication long hand while pretending to take notes.

This forum is just full of skills I don't possess...

I used to do this all the time in meetings. Sometimes in my head, sometimes on paper. And I'd calculate all kinds of stuff about retiring or cutting expenses--even before I found MMM or ERE.

[mustachepungoeshere]

Observed, rather than overheard at work: waste! Waste everywhere!

We print a lot, but some of us are yet to master the art of selecting a range to print.

This is the scene I observe nearly every goddamn day.

Old Person stands at printer waiting for printing. 48 colour A3 pages dutifully appear. Old Person rifles through stack of murdered trees, finds the three necessary pages, and drops the remaining stack in the bin.

This is the layout of the printing room.
_______________________________________________________________________________
[PRINT ROOM DOOR]   [PAPER RECYCLING BIN]  [PRINTER]  [GENERAL WASTE BIN]             
      ^^^.....<.....<.....<.....<.....<.....<.....<.....<.....*Old Person*   

_______________________________________________________________________________

The paper recycling bin is closest to the door. Old Person has to walk past the paper recyling bin to return to his desk. But no, the needlessly massacred trees go in the general waste bin.

At least once a day I find myself fishing paper out of the bin to re-use or recycle.

There seems to be an attitude of 'it's the company's money, so who cares if we waste it'. Apart from the fact that the company is just doing ok, not great, stop killing trees!

[FLA]

Ten years ago, working in hospital, lunched with friends everyday for years, one single woman bit the bullet and put in for retirement at 67.  Met with retirement specialist.  Starts crying at lunch, because she just found out after working there since graduation, the pension she relied upon would give her $300 a month for life.  "I was counting on that pension."  I felt horrible for her but everyone at the table was shocked, then horrified that this would be their situation. I was younger by decades but did not understand.  Only one other person put money in the 403B. Granted, many were married to a spouse with a better salary /pension.  But IMO counting on anyone else, even a spouse, is foolhardy, divorce is not cheap. Still- we got a yearly statement outlining what you were on track to receive at retirement.  If you're single, 67 and going to get $300 a month, wouldn't that have freaked you out many years earlier and you would've tried to figure out a way to improve the situation?

Flash forward 8 yrs, working for hospice, same parent company. Big meeting with head of benefits.  Defined benefit pension no more, cap on what you had vested. No surprise to anyone reading a newspaper (but have to laugh, after working full time for over 20yrs, mine was worth 30k).  More people in this room had been doing the 403B, at same meeting, it was announced match was being cut in half.  Here we are a roomful of hospice people, lowest paid group in the company's system, you are not in it for the money, you're in it because you love it.  Fine, but choosing to live a life of low pay service, you had best have a plan for taking care of yourself, right? 

A social worker (one would think a position that knows a little about what happens to you in old age if you fail to plan, we saw it every single day) raised her hand and said, "I never even knew we had this pension, thank you for keeping it as long as you could."  This was the STUPIDEST thing I ever heard at work. Until the head of benefits said, "you are so welcome!" Amazingly, we did not give him a standing ovation or start doing the Wave. 

[zolotiyeruki]

I used to do this all the time in meetings. Sometimes in my head, sometimes on paper. And I'd calculate all kinds of stuff about retiring or cutting expenses--even before I found MMM or ERE.

Are you my twin?  I used to do that kind of thing all. the. time. at meetings, I'd get so bored.

[swick]

MOD NOTE: I don't suppose it is possible for you to act like adults? How about this, If you can't moderate yourselves there will be no warnings, you KNOW what is appropriate language for our community and I have no problems issuing bans.

[LennStar]

There seems to be an attitude of 'it's the company's money, so who cares if we waste it'. Apart from the fact that the company is just doing ok, not great, stop killing trees!

The problem is that putting your foot into their face does not cahnge their behavior.
But you could try to hang up one reused picture and write on it
"Do you like children? Children like trees. So leave a few standing."

[Silverado]

On another topic, are people watching the bogleheads discussion on beater driving? Some of that is funny.

Link please?

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=170262

I'll leave the foam alone, it's just too easy to rile up males and those that want to be one.

[plainjane]

Old Person stands at printer waiting for printing. 48 colour A3 pages dutifully appear. Old Person rifles through stack of murdered trees, finds the three necessary pages, and drops the remaining stack in the bin.

At OldJob you had to enter a project number for each print job.  Colour pages were ~$0.40 each and went directly against the project's profitability.  It was shocking how quickly that changed the habits of people on my team.  I didn't realize how much until I came to NewJob and saw the amount of colour being printed, when the only thing that _was_ colour was the header of the document, and the rest was black text.  At least the default here is double sided (I prefer two-up, but understand that only works with people who have the eyes for it).

[RetiredAt63]

It is not an age thing, so "Old Person" should have been "Oblivious Person" - I have seen "old people" be super conservationist and "young people" be super wasteful.  Please don't assume a behaviour that is due to ignorance is due to age.
Just saying.

Those of us who started learning programming back in the dinosaur era remember feeling very sorry for whoever was running a test program that was advancing the paper after one line of print.  And hoping it wasn't our program. So there may be an age demographic that is super conscious of paper use. (And if you are wondering why we didn't just cancel the print job, I did say dinosaur, and that means main-frame and extremely limited access).

I have seen "Old People" know how to use subscript and superscript when using Word, and "Young People" who didn't have a clue about something so basic (thinking of some Chemistry students I have known).

Observed, rather than overheard at work: waste! Waste everywhere!

We print a lot, but some of us are yet to master the art of selecting a range to print.

This is the scene I observe nearly every goddamn day.

Old Person stands at printer waiting for printing. 48 colour A3 pages dutifully appear. Old Person rifles through stack of murdered trees, finds the three necessary pages, and drops the remaining stack in the bin.

This is the layout of the printing room.
_______________________________________________________________________________
[PRINT ROOM DOOR]   [PAPER RECYCLING BIN]  [PRINTER]  [GENERAL WASTE BIN]             
      ^^^.....<.....<.....<.....<.....<.....<.....<.....<.....*Old Person*   

_______________________________________________________________________________

The paper recycling bin is closest to the door. Old Person has to walk past the paper recyling bin to return to his desk. But no, the needlessly massacred trees go in the general waste bin.

At least once a day I find myself fishing paper out of the bin to re-use or recycle.

There seems to be an attitude of 'it's the company's money, so who cares if we waste it'. Apart from the fact that the company is just doing ok, not great, stop killing trees!

[zephyr911]

Colleague is on the phone - during work hours - trying to renegotiate his car lease, to lower the payments to something he can afford.

He's 59, he and his wife are DINKs.

>.<

OMFG! It hurts to read it!

[infogoon]

A conversation among my coworkers this morning about wills -- we are all in our late 30s, married with kids. The consensus was that there's really no point to having a will, since "at this stage of life, all we have is debt anyway".

[Making Cookies]

Wait, Joe Average, you were really told that a Prius can tow or this was a joke? When I moved a few years back I tried to get a hitch on my Prius and Toyota was like "oh hell no"... Maybe it just couldn't tow enough weight to be worth it? But I was planning to tow something smaller than a camper!

I can't imagine Toyota would allow you to tow anything with your Prius in the USA. If your car is still under warranty I wouldn't even consider it if you want your warranty to not be voided.

I'd look at the UK Prius owner's group and see what they are allowed to tow and see if you indeed have the same vehicles there and here. For example - the 1st gen CR-Vs like mine are the same in the UK. Alternatively the VW Passat is sold all over the world in name but it is a different car in different regions. In China they get a Passat based on the 1980s design. In Europe they get something different than the USA. Our Passat here in the US is built in Chattanooga and is more bulky.

There are likely retailers who sell trailer hitches for your Prius like eTrailer. (No connection to me but I bought a Curt hitch for my CR-V there years ago).

With nothing else to work with - I'd rate your Prius capable of towing the same weight it is capable of carrying inside (passengers plus cargo). That will likely be some modest amount below 1000 lbs. Plenty of tiny basic utility trailers for sale that weigh a couple hundred pounds and capable of carrying more than your car is capable of towing (trailer weight plus cargo weight). I bought one years ago from the local hardware store that was very handy and durable. Later replaced with with a Brenderup 1205S that I am very happy with.

Be safe!

[mtn]

Wait, Joe Average, you were really told that a Prius can tow or this was a joke? When I moved a few years back I tried to get a hitch on my Prius and Toyota was like "oh hell no"... Maybe it just couldn't tow enough weight to be worth it? But I was planning to tow something smaller than a camper!

I can't imagine Toyota would allow you to tow anything with your Prius in the USA. If your car is still under warranty I wouldn't even consider it if you want your warranty to not be voided.

I'd look at the UK Prius owner's group and see what they are allowed to tow and see if you indeed have the same vehicles there and here. For example - the 1st gen CR-Vs like mine are the same in the UK. Alternatively the VW Passat is sold all over the world in name but it is a different car in different regions. In China they get a Passat based on the 1980s design. In Europe they get something different than the USA. Our Passat here in the US is built in Chattanooga and is more bulky.

There are likely retailers who sell trailer hitches for your Prius like eTrailer. (No connection to me but I bought a Curt hitch for my CR-V there years ago).

With nothing else to work with - I'd rate your Prius capable of towing the same weight it is capable of carrying inside (passengers plus cargo). That will likely be some modest amount below 1000 lbs. Plenty of tiny basic utility trailers for sale that weigh a couple hundred pounds and capable of carrying more than your car is capable of towing (trailer weight plus cargo weight). I bought one years ago from the local hardware store that was very handy and durable. Later replaced with with a Brenderup 1205S that I am very happy with.

Be safe!

The Prius can tow a light load just fine. I'd imagine up to 1000 pounds. Have the trailer loaded correctly, and you won't have any issues.

I used to tow with my Miata all the time--no problems. Sometime go and pick up the tongue of a boat trailer, with the boat on it. Not a huge boat, but maybe an 18 foot aluminum. Walk it across the yard. Shockingly easy, huh? And you're just one person. A car has a LOT more power. Not recommending to tow an 18 foot boat with a prius, necessarily, but don't be freaked out by a small trailer with 500lbs on it.

[Hall11235]

Just a little quickie:

CW: I like to pick up seasonal retail jobs to make a little extra 'round the holidays.
Me: That's cool! (thinking there was a closet Mustachian here)
CW: But I haven't brought home a paycheck from this place because I spend it all there! I love getting new shoes.
Me: That's one way to do it... *slinks dejectedly back to cubicle to re-calculate total time to FIRE*

[Chris22]

Wait, Joe Average, you were really told that a Prius can tow or this was a joke? When I moved a few years back I tried to get a hitch on my Prius and Toyota was like "oh hell no"... Maybe it just couldn't tow enough weight to be worth it? But I was planning to tow something smaller than a camper!

I can't imagine Toyota would allow you to tow anything with your Prius in the USA. If your car is still under warranty I wouldn't even consider it if you want your warranty to not be voided.

I'd look at the UK Prius owner's group and see what they are allowed to tow and see if you indeed have the same vehicles there and here. For example - the 1st gen CR-Vs like mine are the same in the UK. Alternatively the VW Passat is sold all over the world in name but it is a different car in different regions. In China they get a Passat based on the 1980s design. In Europe they get something different than the USA. Our Passat here in the US is built in Chattanooga and is more bulky.

There are likely retailers who sell trailer hitches for your Prius like eTrailer. (No connection to me but I bought a Curt hitch for my CR-V there years ago).

With nothing else to work with - I'd rate your Prius capable of towing the same weight it is capable of carrying inside (passengers plus cargo). That will likely be some modest amount below 1000 lbs. Plenty of tiny basic utility trailers for sale that weigh a couple hundred pounds and capable of carrying more than your car is capable of towing (trailer weight plus cargo weight). I bought one years ago from the local hardware store that was very handy and durable. Later replaced with with a Brenderup 1205S that I am very happy with.

Be safe!

The Prius can tow a light load just fine. I'd imagine up to 1000 pounds. Have the trailer loaded correctly, and you won't have any issues.

I used to tow with my Miata all the time--no problems. Sometime go and pick up the tongue of a boat trailer, with the boat on it. Not a huge boat, but maybe an 18 foot aluminum. Walk it across the yard. Shockingly easy, huh? And you're just one person. A car has a LOT more power. Not recommending to tow an 18 foot boat with a prius, necessarily, but don't be freaked out by a small trailer with 500lbs on it.

I don't necessarily disagree that a small car can tow ~500lbs, but note that power to move the load is not usually the issue, it's the added STOPPING power required to stop moving the load. 

Personally, I think the real issue with towing with a small car is that people are absolute garbage at estimating weight.  What looks like a small pile of mulch or gravel or rock or wood can weigh a ton, literally.  You need a trailer to tow something relatively light, but bulky, like a couch?  Knock yourself out.  But some of the things like the building supplies MMM claims to tow or haul with his Scion are, frankly, stupid risky. 

[nobodyspecial]

The Prius can tow a light load just fine. I'd imagine up to 1000 pounds. Have the trailer loaded correctly, and you won't have any issues.

The official towing figures for cars seem suspicously low - almost as if they wanted you to buy a truck !

My Subaru forrester 4x4 with a 175hp motor is 1000lbs and so is a Ford Escape 4x4 - I imagine they would both pull more than this.

[Chris22]

The Prius can tow a light load just fine. I'd imagine up to 1000 pounds. Have the trailer loaded correctly, and you won't have any issues.

The official towing figures for cars seem suspicously low - almost as if they wanted you to buy a truck !

My Subaru forrester 4x4 with a 175hp motor is 1000lbs and so is a Ford Escape 4x4 - I imagine they would both pull more than this.

In this day and age of CAFE and mileage-conscious customers (sometimes, anyways), manufacturers have really gotten great at optimizing the structure of their cars to support exactly what they need to and not much more.  Since most people don't tow things with small cars, there's no need to burden the car with the extra reinforced towing attachment points, the additional cooling capability, the larger brakes, the heavier duty suspension, etc, all of which add weight and decrease mileage.  Do you think the average consumer will chose a Honda Civic with a 1000lb towing capacity and 28/34 mpg ratings over a Toyota Corolla with 0 towing capacity and29/36 mpg ratings? 

Let me answer for you: No.

Also understand that while you might think "Oh, I'm just going to tow a small 200lb trailer with 500lbs in it on flat surface streets a few miles" but a carmaker has to think "If we rate this car at 1000lbs, really we need it to withstand 1500lbs towed up a mountain in 115* heat when it has 49,999 miles on it (out of a warrantied 50k) and never had the transmission fluid changed, etc etc etc."

[mtn]

Corolla has a tow rating of 1500lb.

[sheepstache]

Not money related but I just had a conversation with the facilities manager.
FM: It's between 68-72, which is the accepted range.
Me: I know, I've just been getting complaints. They're little kids so they feel the cold more.
FM: They need to wear clothes! They're all wearing shorts!
Me: ...It's summer. It's 90 degrees outside.

[1967mama]

@Sheepstache, Did you happen to see this article on a/c use in offices?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/frigid-offices-freezing-women-oblivious-men-an-air-conditioning-investigation/2015/07/23/bdd1b4b4-30ae-11e5-97ae-30a30cca95d7_story.html

[sheepstache]

@Sheepstache, Did you happen to see this article on a/c use in offices?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/frigid-offices-freezing-women-oblivious-men-an-air-conditioning-investigation/2015/07/23/bdd1b4b4-30ae-11e5-97ae-30a30cca95d7_story.html

Ah yes the facilities manager was a dude wearing long pants and a long-sleeved dress shirt with undershirt. What I never understand is why, if the temperature is set to dude level and dudes like it cold, the building temperature is so comfy warm in the winter? It's like people are just trying to use the temperature system as much as possible, more to assuage some anxiety that they won't be able to control the temperature than to be comfortable. Can't control the economy, can't control mortality, can't control your mother-in-law, but, hey, it's between 68 and 72 :)

Reminds me of a random snippet from somewhere:
As a rule, man is a fool
When it's hot he wants it cool.
When it's cool he wants it hot,
Always wanting what is not.

[GuitarStv]

I think from now on, I will refer to groups of people as "males" instead. Just to really piss off anyone who gets annoyed by gendered pronouns. "Hey you males, how's it going?"

I was the boss of an all male crew and wonder how they would feel if I called them all ladies - "Alright ladies, this is what we are doing today". Yeah, that's what I should have done. Not insulting at all to them.

OK really not picking a fight but just wanted to post to follow this thread as I finally got around to reading some of it. Took me a couple of years though :-)!

My judo instructor addressed the predominantly male class as 'ladies' each night.  I don't think anyone was offended to be honest.