Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 6262778 times)

K-Dogg

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10600 on: September 16, 2015, 11:32:10 AM »
Background: CW1 texts me pictures of her new Jeep Compass she bought over the weekend. She makes around 60k/year and work is spotty this year with the recession.

CW1 – Just got this!
Me –   Wow, that looks hella expensive.
CW1 – Nah, it’s small.
Me –   My Mazda is smallish (there are smaller cars)

So Monday rolls around.

CW1 – Ya, it’s fully loaded: leather, moon roof, heated seats.
CW2 – Those are nice. Probably got a good deal on financing.
CW1 – I was surprised I got it. The dealership told me I wouldn’t qualify for 40k, but then they approved me for 45k!
Me – (head explodes)
CW2 – How much is the interest rate?
CW1 – Only 8.4%.
CW3 – That’s not bad! I was paying 29.99% for 4 years! But now I qualify for 0% so I’m going to go look at trucks tonight.

This is one of those conversations that just gets worse and worse the longer it goes on!

Is there any way that I can get in on this action? If people are dumb enough to pay 8.4% interest on a depreciating asset, I want to invest in this racket.

If you invest in an index fund, then you are already in on the action. The car companies and banks are probably listed on the index.


Update!

I checked the pricing online for a nearby Jeep dealership and I seen a Compass listed for 37k. I believe Americans pay much less for cars than we Canadians do and we have to pay $1500 extra just to have it delivered known as the "destination charge."

Anyways, CW3 did go look at trucks that night!

CW1: Did you find the truck you were looking for?
CW3: Yup. It's being built this week. They wanted 63k but I got them down to 55K! It's 0% interest so why not!?
CW2: You should buy some "depreciation insurance." That way if you get in an accident in the next two years, they will pay you out the full price of what you paid.
CW3: I'll look into that. I don't know how high my insurance will be since I'm still getting screwed on some charges I got 7 years ago.
CW2: Oh I'm getting screwed too. They doubled my insurance from $200/month to $400/month because of some speeding tickets without telling me. I freaked out.
CW1: So when do you get your truck?
CW3: I'll go in this weekend. I put a $1000 deposit down to hold it, so once it gets on the lot they can't sell it to someone else. I wouldn't let them run my credit until I see the truck though.
Me: (not understanding this at all)
CW3: I'm just going to roll the 5K left on my current truck into this loan too. (So it'll be 60K!)
CW2: Ya, that's what I did when I got my truck last year.

Oh people are crazy!

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10601 on: September 16, 2015, 12:14:45 PM »

Look, I originally came on this board with interest, because it DIDN'T seem like the same old "drive every dime out of your life and live like a pauper forever" site.  Increasingly, I'm seeing that it is.  I try to OPTIMIZE (that's what we're here for, right?) my life, and reduce waste in areas I don't care about to spend in areas I do.  That apparently isn't the point.  The point seems to be to live in a prescripted way and congratulate each other on how close you can get to matching thy Holy Diety MMM, who is generally bad at math and demonstrably makes incredibly poor leaps in logic and pulls numbers out of his ass to try and make a point*.  I never intended to post, but got drawn in discussing things related to cars, because that's my passion, and the group here seems incredibly ill-informed when it comes to them (ie, running A/C is a punch-you-in-the-balls offense, when in reality modern systems are very efficient with minimal mileage penalty).  I see now that trying to provide another viewpoint and further, corrective information is considered "trolling" here (In most of the rest of the internet, sincere disagreement is not trolling, dunno why it is here) and is unwelcome.  Got it.  After this post, I'm going to lock my account and wander off.  You guys want an circlejerk echo chamber where you can congratulate each other on who can sweat the most to avoid paying a dime, fine.  I'll leave you to it.  Just don't pretend you're having anything close to a "discussion".


*See things like converting miles driven to time on road to make bikes safer than cars, a clearly idiotic way to look at it given no one says "let me take 1 hour to get to work no matter the distance" instead of "I live 10 miles away, that's 20 minutes by car and 40 by bike".  See also "a small apartment is cheaper than a suburban house and those are good comparables" or "an SUV by default must always be the dumber choice no matter the actual costs in question."

Chris, no need to justify your life choices to me, or leave the boards. I was responding to your direct question, "How's that trollish?". I just thought you didn't understand how your post could be -construed- as trollish, so I outlined it for you. I was not attacking your choices, I was explaining how they differ from the general consensus around here, and therefore why people were questioning whether you were just trying to get a rise out of people. I, for one, like to hear differing view points and enjoy constructive debate.

yeah man, don't be mad. you are my Honda friend.

Honestly, a lot of the people on the forum don't understand cars or that people could be car enthusiasts. I've noticed some of the same things you, but I just learned it's better not to tell everyone on here I like cars. Plus, mob mentality and the internet, easy for everyone to be perfect on here - at least you kept it real about your choices.

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10602 on: September 16, 2015, 12:30:39 PM »

Look, I originally came on this board with interest, because it DIDN'T seem like the same old "drive every dime out of your life and live like a pauper forever" site.  Increasingly, I'm seeing that it is.  I try to OPTIMIZE (that's what we're here for, right?) my life, and reduce waste in areas I don't care about to spend in areas I do.  That apparently isn't the point.  The point seems to be to live in a prescripted way and congratulate each other on how close you can get to matching thy Holy Diety MMM, who is generally bad at math and demonstrably makes incredibly poor leaps in logic and pulls numbers out of his ass to try and make a point*.  I never intended to post, but got drawn in discussing things related to cars, because that's my passion, and the group here seems incredibly ill-informed when it comes to them (ie, running A/C is a punch-you-in-the-balls offense, when in reality modern systems are very efficient with minimal mileage penalty).  I see now that trying to provide another viewpoint and further, corrective information is considered "trolling" here (In most of the rest of the internet, sincere disagreement is not trolling, dunno why it is here) and is unwelcome.  Got it.  After this post, I'm going to lock my account and wander off.  You guys want an circlejerk echo chamber where you can congratulate each other on who can sweat the most to avoid paying a dime, fine.  I'll leave you to it.  Just don't pretend you're having anything close to a "discussion".


*See things like converting miles driven to time on road to make bikes safer than cars, a clearly idiotic way to look at it given no one says "let me take 1 hour to get to work no matter the distance" instead of "I live 10 miles away, that's 20 minutes by car and 40 by bike".  See also "a small apartment is cheaper than a suburban house and those are good comparables" or "an SUV by default must always be the dumber choice no matter the actual costs in question."

Chris, no need to justify your life choices to me, or leave the boards. I was responding to your direct question, "How's that trollish?". I just thought you didn't understand how your post could be -construed- as trollish, so I outlined it for you. I was not attacking your choices, I was explaining how they differ from the general consensus around here, and therefore why people were questioning whether you were just trying to get a rise out of people. I, for one, like to hear differing view points and enjoy constructive debate.

yeah man, don't be mad. you are my Honda friend.

Honestly, a lot of the people on the forum don't understand cars or that people could be car enthusiasts. I've noticed some of the same things you, but I just learned it's better not to tell everyone on here I like cars. Plus, mob mentality and the internet, easy for everyone to be perfect on here - at least you kept it real about your choices.

There are definitely other car enthusiasts on this forum. For example:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/mustachian-dream-car-thread/

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10603 on: September 16, 2015, 12:41:55 PM »

Drove to work this AM, top down.  Don't remember the A/C being on, but I didn't intentionally turn it on.  I dunno.  Daughter insisted we take "Red car" to preschool instead of normal "black car."  (Preschool at the end of the block, I understand I'm putting her life in grave danger driving 200yds at 17mph without a car seat and near the airbag, I accept it, blah blah).

No skin in this game, but since you seem unable to see it Chris, I will outline why this sounds like trolling, given the forum we are on.
1) driving to the end of the block. (Yes you may have been on your way elsewhere, but driving such distances is generally frowned upon here. Sounds like the very height of clown-car driving).

Yes.  I drive to the end of the block.  Drop my kid off.  Then get in the car and go to work.  I drop my kid off at about 8:15 with the goal of being at work as close to 8:30 as possible (the unofficial "should be in the office" time.)  Yes, I could walk to school, walk back to the house, and then drive past the school I just walked to.  Alternately, I could ride my bike to drop my daughter off, then ride about 45 minutes to work, and to make it at the same time I'd pay $5/hr for childcare (school starts at 8:15, you pay for extended hours prior to that time) instead of about $1/day for gas.  Great call.  The knee-jerk "clown car" bullshit is just that.


Quote
2) allowing a child to 'insist' on which car you took. Who's the adult here? Pandering to kids and spoiling them with material excess is again, your right, but contrary to the general consensus on these boards.

Uh, she insisted the same way a friend might insist he buy your next beer.  Real tough sell to get me to drive my sports car on a beautiful sunny day.  How that's pandering and spoiling to allow my kid to pick which car we already own to ride in is beyond me.  Who gives a shit?


Quote
3) having a choice of cars in the first place. Again, multiple car ownership, whilst totally up to you, stands out on a board about frugality that has a heavy emphasis on reducing car use.

I know, I'm terrible, I keep a 13y/o long-paid-for 4cyl convertible in the garage because it makes me happy and helps me enjoy life.  Given that I can't drive two cars at once, it doesn't increase the amount I drive one iota.  It just makes me happier while I do it.



Look, I originally came on this board with interest, because it DIDN'T seem like the same old "drive every dime out of your life and live like a pauper forever" site.  Increasingly, I'm seeing that it is.  I try to OPTIMIZE (that's what we're here for, right?) my life, and reduce waste in areas I don't care about to spend in areas I do.  That apparently isn't the point.  The point seems to be to live in a prescripted way and congratulate each other on how close you can get to matching thy Holy Diety MMM, who is generally bad at math and demonstrably makes incredibly poor leaps in logic and pulls numbers out of his ass to try and make a point*.  I never intended to post, but got drawn in discussing things related to cars, because that's my passion, and the group here seems incredibly ill-informed when it comes to them (ie, running A/C is a punch-you-in-the-balls offense, when in reality modern systems are very efficient with minimal mileage penalty).  I see now that trying to provide another viewpoint and further, corrective information is considered "trolling" here (In most of the rest of the internet, sincere disagreement is not trolling, dunno why it is here) and is unwelcome.  Got it.  After this post, I'm going to lock my account and wander off.  You guys want an circlejerk echo chamber where you can congratulate each other on who can sweat the most to avoid paying a dime, fine.  I'll leave you to it.  Just don't pretend you're having anything close to a "discussion".


*See things like converting miles driven to time on road to make bikes safer than cars, a clearly idiotic way to look at it given no one says "let me take 1 hour to get to work no matter the distance" instead of "I live 10 miles away, that's 20 minutes by car and 40 by bike".  See also "a small apartment is cheaper than a suburban house and those are good comparables" or "an SUV by default must always be the dumber choice no matter the actual costs in question."

Lemme get this straight...

You were trying to start a serious discussion about personal finance with such gems as "Don't remember the A/C being on, but I didn't intentionally turn it on.  I dunno." and "I'm putting her life in grave danger driving 200yds at 17mph without a car seat and near the airbag, I accept it, blah blah"? 

And the post is in reply to a story about a guy drinking McDonalds coffee? 

And MMM is bad at math?

And now you are ragequitting because we don't take your nonsequitur seriously?

mkay


edit: I don't drive every dime out of my budget.  For all I know,  might be more spendypants than you.  But I do find it hard to believe you don't understand the way your posts come off.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 12:44:14 PM by dragoncar »

Posthumane

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10604 on: September 16, 2015, 12:49:44 PM »
One of my co-workers (okay, bosses...) in one of my jobs was talking about how he already has two pensions in addition to the 1.5 jobs he works, and in 17 years he will have a third. Two years after that he will have CPP (canada pensions plan) and OAS (old age securiy) and then he'll finally have enough to quit his job(s). He also mentioned that the only way he could quit his job on lottery winnings was if the amount was over $48 million as he has too many expensive things he wants to do in retirements (like buy a helicopter).

FatCat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10605 on: September 16, 2015, 01:19:13 PM »
Look, I originally came on this board with interest, because it DIDN'T seem like the same old "drive every dime out of your life and live like a pauper forever" site.  Increasingly, I'm seeing that it is.  I try to OPTIMIZE (that's what we're here for, right?) my life, and reduce waste in areas I don't care about to spend in areas I do.  That apparently isn't the point.  The point seems to be to live in a prescripted way and congratulate each other on how close you can get to matching thy Holy Diety MMM, who is generally bad at math and demonstrably makes incredibly poor leaps in logic and pulls numbers out of his ass to try and make a point*.

I think different people might be aiming for different things. I personally am trying to optimize my lifestyle to suit my own needs and wants. I am mostly hoping to see other people's ideas that I hadn't already thought of myself that might be useful for my own life. Some people do seem to be primarily trying to copy MMM's ideas as much as possible with the idea that his way is the optimal way. Considering some of the wording on this site, it seems to be highly encouraged so one should probably expect it.

I think the issue is that you describe something that just sounds wasteful, but without any contextual framing that demonstrates it might not be as wasteful as it sounds and may actually be the optimal choice for you. And certain things that people assume to be wasteful aren't as wasteful as they appear to be. And some statements seem designed to be questioned/criticized so that you can go back in and explain that in actuality it's not as bad as it appears.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10606 on: September 16, 2015, 01:20:15 PM »
Quote
Yes.  I drive to the end of the block.  Drop my kid off.  Then get in the car and go to work.  I drop my kid off at about 8:15 with the goal of being at work as close to 8:30 as possible (the unofficial "should be in the office" time.)  Yes, I could walk to school, walk back to the house, and then drive past the school I just walked to.  Alternately, I could ride my bike to drop my daughter off, then ride about 45 minutes to work, and to make it at the same time I'd pay $5/hr for childcare (school starts at 8:15, you pay for extended hours prior to that time) instead of about $1/day for gas.  Great call.  The knee-jerk "clown car" bullshit is just that.

I'm with you on this one, but many people don't see it that way, and that's ok.  I mean, we drive our kids to school and daycare. I know, I know.  But I'm not MMM and we have 2 kids at 2 different places and 2 full time jobs (by choice people!!)

So Weds is our unofficial "Walk to School Day" (which is up over a really big hill, 0.75 miles each way).  That day, I walk my big kid to school, sometimes the neighbor girls (but not all 3 of them, because no-way I'm wrangling the 4 year old).  Sometimes I have my toddler in the stroller, sometimes my husband takes him to daycare first, depending on when he wakes up.  I use this chance to drop off things at the office to be copied (I'm on the PTA board), and catch up with other board members on projects.  Then I walk home, take the toddler to daycare, and get to work, super late.

But on a normal day, the "morning parent" either walks the big kid to the neighbor's house for carpool or drives him to school.  The "morning parent" has 2 dropoffs.  The "afternoon parent" has 2 pickups.  It doesn't make sense to walk and add all that time, when dropoff #1 is 0.75 miles from home and dropoff #2 is a couple of miles past that and work is 12 miles from there.  And "afternoon parent" does the reverse.

It's more efficient to drop off "on the way".  Kudos to my friends who work from home, or don't work, or are business owners, or live closer to the school.  Totally awesome.

Hall11235

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10607 on: September 16, 2015, 01:49:37 PM »
Well, the financial trainwreck that are my coworkers continues... 2 stories here:
1).
CW: I'm thinking about hiring a cleaning service for my house. I am ok spending around 100 dollars a week. (This is our receptionist, who makes under 40k a year).
Me: (After my face stopped melting) That seems a tad pricey. That's like 5200 dollars a year, or almost 20% of your take home pay. Is having a spotless home that important?
CW: Yeah, I need a clean home. You don't own one, so you wouldn't understand (I'm the 22 year old "kid"). I never think about things like that. It's only 100 dollars a week! I just won't think about how much it costs per year.
Me: (Walks away in disgust).

2).
Conversation with our warehouse associate:

Me: My credit score is right around 730. I am pretty happy with that since I have only had a CC for a few months. I try to never carry a balance. (Glowing with MMM smugness).
CW: That's awesome! My credit is right around 600. It was 343 at its lowest.
Me: Sounds like there's a story there, if you want to share...
CW: Sure! When I was 20, I wanted to build my credit so I applied for two credit cards and then maxed them out and payed monthly payments on them. I thought that was how you built credit. Then, I went to automotive school and didn't like it; the classes weren't what I was expecting or told to expect. So, I refused to pay the bills for school on principle. I wasn't employed at the time...
Me: Did you declare bankruptcy? (Trying to look away from the train wreck, but just couldn't)
CW: Nah, man. It cost $2,000 to declare bankruptcy, and I didn't have much money at the time.
Me: Why didn't you pay that tuition?
CW: I refuse to pay people if their service doesn't live up my expectations.
Me: Didn't you sign a contract saying you'd pay that money?
CW: Yeah, but those F****** said that the school would be like XYZ and it wasn't, so I chose not to pay.
Me: (Trying to extricate my self from this poison ASAP) Well, I'm glad you got it figured out... (promptly ran to the MMM forums for some sanity)
"Just because it's common, doesn't mean it's normal."

LeRainDrop

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10608 on: September 16, 2015, 01:59:50 PM »

Look, I originally came on this board with interest, because it DIDN'T seem like the same old "drive every dime out of your life and live like a pauper forever" site.  Increasingly, I'm seeing that it is.  I try to OPTIMIZE (that's what we're here for, right?) my life, and reduce waste in areas I don't care about to spend in areas I do.  That apparently isn't the point.  The point seems to be to live in a prescripted way and congratulate each other on how close you can get to matching thy Holy Diety MMM, who is generally bad at math and demonstrably makes incredibly poor leaps in logic and pulls numbers out of his ass to try and make a point*.  I never intended to post, but got drawn in discussing things related to cars, because that's my passion, and the group here seems incredibly ill-informed when it comes to them (ie, running A/C is a punch-you-in-the-balls offense, when in reality modern systems are very efficient with minimal mileage penalty).  I see now that trying to provide another viewpoint and further, corrective information is considered "trolling" here (In most of the rest of the internet, sincere disagreement is not trolling, dunno why it is here) and is unwelcome.  Got it.  After this post, I'm going to lock my account and wander off.  You guys want an circlejerk echo chamber where you can congratulate each other on who can sweat the most to avoid paying a dime, fine.  I'll leave you to it.  Just don't pretend you're having anything close to a "discussion".


*See things like converting miles driven to time on road to make bikes safer than cars, a clearly idiotic way to look at it given no one says "let me take 1 hour to get to work no matter the distance" instead of "I live 10 miles away, that's 20 minutes by car and 40 by bike".  See also "a small apartment is cheaper than a suburban house and those are good comparables" or "an SUV by default must always be the dumber choice no matter the actual costs in question."

Chris, no need to justify your life choices to me, or leave the boards. I was responding to your direct question, "How's that trollish?". I just thought you didn't understand how your post could be -construed- as trollish, so I outlined it for you. I was not attacking your choices, I was explaining how they differ from the general consensus around here, and therefore why people were questioning whether you were just trying to get a rise out of people. I, for one, like to hear differing view points and enjoy constructive debate.

yeah man, don't be mad. you are my Honda friend.

Honestly, a lot of the people on the forum don't understand cars or that people could be car enthusiasts. I've noticed some of the same things you, but I just learned it's better not to tell everyone on here I like cars. Plus, mob mentality and the internet, easy for everyone to be perfect on here - at least you kept it real about your choices.

I'm not even a car enthusiast, and I still think it's unfair to harp on Chris22 (or allege that he's "trolling") for running the car AC with the windows down or for driving his daughter to school on his route to work!  Chris22 stated my philosophy perfectly:  ". . .  I originally came on this board with interest, because it DIDN'T seem like the same old "drive every dime out of your life and live like a pauper forever" site. . . . I try to OPTIMIZE (that's what we're here for, right?) my life, and reduce waste in areas I don't care about to spend in areas I do."

skunkfunk

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10609 on: September 16, 2015, 02:07:14 PM »

he may even want to look into a switch from electric to propane to save even more.


Around here it's just about a wash. Since I hate getting the propane tanks filled, I'd even say electric would be better.

Not so around there?

nobodyspecial

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10610 on: September 16, 2015, 02:23:02 PM »
He corrected me. Apparently I couldn't hook it up because soldering is involved, and only plumbers can do that.
Confession time.
Bought a new house with a rusted water heater.
I bought the tank, ripped out the old one and put the new one in but decided not to solder the pipes.
I'm new to the country, not "certified", out all day,  what if I caused a leak, would the insurance pay,.....
The plumber turned up and used plastic pex tubing and shark-bite connectors - no soldering.
Apparently the water is so acid here that copper pipe doesn't last as long

Making Cookies

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10611 on: September 16, 2015, 09:08:06 PM »
I've actually heard people say that it's because the A/C in a vehicle works just as hard whether the windows are up or down. It doesn't shut off when it reaches a certain temp. It's ridiculous, but some people like to have "fresh air" with their cool air.

All that a/c air just exits the car through the body vent in the back of the cab or trunk unless you have it set to recirc. You might as well have the windows open.

FWIW I idled a Dodge Intrepid one night - the whole night - at work to stay warm on a reflash watch (building at work burned). I believe it used just shy of half a tank of gas. And yeah - it reflashed once.

Making Cookies

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10612 on: September 16, 2015, 09:11:56 PM »

Heat is essentially free. I have definitely turned the heat on a little with windows open - you know those warm summer night drives, where at 2 am it dips to 60; the open windows feel so good, but the cold starts to get through to the bone? It's pretty nice to turn the heat on.

Not AC and windows, though.

Heck in the winter I've been known to ride around with the top down on my old convertible...

Making Cookies

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10613 on: September 16, 2015, 10:09:37 PM »
- the she had a fight with him about their last holiday to Europe where he suggested they might stay in a hostel. WTF? If someone was bank rolling my Euro trip for me I sure as hell wouldn't be complaining about their accommodation choices.

Years ago i was dating this girl and all the signs said "move on" but I was kind of stubborn and thickheaded. Wondered if she was "the one".

Had limited funds once and told her we could go somewhere nice if we went "Dutch" or I'd take her out for a burger. Dutch was not an option... Ahhh - is unable to deal with financial reality. A few more little episodes like that and we went out separate ways. Another example: she couldn't find a job. Turned out she was sleeping until after noon and it was nearly closing time before she got it together and started visiting HR departments. Her parents made it easy for her to live easy at home.

Making Cookies

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10614 on: September 16, 2015, 10:14:00 PM »
\
Haha yeah I'm sure you've done the math and all.  Its just looking at your post I see things like driving a convertible and blasting the ac, and it just feeeeels spendypants.  No offense intended.

My well worn VW is only worth $1200 or so. Not all convertibles are expensive... ;)

Two9A

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10615 on: September 17, 2015, 05:00:40 AM »
He corrected me. Apparently I couldn't hook it up because soldering is involved, and only plumbers can do that.
Confession time.
Bought a new house with a rusted water heater.
I bought the tank, ripped out the old one and put the new one in but decided not to solder the pipes.
I'm new to the country, not "certified", out all day,  what if I caused a leak, would the insurance pay,.....
The plumber turned up and used plastic pex tubing and shark-bite connectors - no soldering.
Apparently the water is so acid here that copper pipe doesn't last as long
I dunno, I'd count that as sensible use of a plumber.

I do some amateur plumbing, and I'd've used copper pipe with compression joints in that situation, having no regard for the effect of acidic water on copper. A plumber who knows what works in the general area is a good resource.

Drifterrider

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10616 on: September 17, 2015, 08:16:49 AM »
As for sitting to pee - every morning, I'm still too asleep to ensure I aim properly.
[/quote]

At least I now know I'm not alone :)

My bedroom and bathroom face the street.  I have a street light.  I have mini-blinds.
The street light provides enough light so I don't have to turn on the light in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom.  By using the "sit" method, I don't have to turn on the light, don't have to put on my glasses and don't really have to become "fully awake".

Every bit of energy saved counts :)

nobodyspecial

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10617 on: September 17, 2015, 09:10:19 AM »
This was in a crawlspace so I can check for leaks.

The main reason I was nervous of soldering was that they build houses of wood here and the copper pipes were running through the wooden beams holding the house up. I didn't want to wave a blowtorch around too much

Rosy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10618 on: September 17, 2015, 10:27:49 AM »
Quote
I'm not even a car enthusiast, and I still think it's unfair to harp on Chris22 (or allege that he's "trolling") for running the car AC with the windows down or for driving his daughter to school on his route to work!  Chris22 stated my philosophy perfectly:  ". . .  I originally came on this board with interest, because it DIDN'T seem like the same old "drive every dime out of your life and live like a pauper forever" site. . . . I try to OPTIMIZE (that's what we're here for, right?) my life, and reduce waste in areas I don't care about to spend in areas I do."

+1 - you know if you have to defend every post you make - that is no fun. Anything labeled "extreme" is a red flag to me, just like fanaticism and I slowly discovered there are a lot of people here from another extreme board that post here as well.
Chris mentioned both his cars have been long since paid off - that just goes to show that we really never know the true financial circumstances of someone else.
There are plenty of circumstances when it makes sense to own two cars - get over it. There are also plenty of circumstances where one cannot ride a bike to work or for fitness.

I take away what works for me and I am grateful for this forum and the amazing amount of information and cool links to be found here. But hey, my values and how I choose to live are my own and it wouldn't occur to me in a million years to try to imitate MMM, heck I don't even approve of some of his choices.

I came here to optimize just like Chris and stayed, because Mr. R. is looking to retire in 10 or less years and this is the best forum I have found in pursuit of ER but, I do find it prickly and I do wish those who prefer the extreme side of frugality would back off.

Seppia

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10619 on: September 17, 2015, 10:40:17 AM »
*applause*

Seppia

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Overheard at Work
« Reply #10620 on: September 17, 2015, 10:40:49 AM »
Edit for double. Damn tapatalk

jda1984

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10621 on: September 17, 2015, 10:47:57 AM »
This was in a crawlspace so I can check for leaks.

The main reason I was nervous of soldering was that they build houses of wood here and the copper pipes were running through the wooden beams holding the house up. I didn't want to wave a blowtorch around too much

Off topic (should be DIY), but they make flame retardant shields to put between the joints and the wood.  In a pinch, I've used a small piece of scrap drywall (also fire resistant).

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10622 on: September 17, 2015, 04:04:07 PM »
..you know if you have to defend every post you make - that is no fun.

If you (not you Rosy, the general you) have to defend a post or two every now and then, maybe people are being assholes to you and nitpicking your choices.

If you have to defend nearly every post you make, maybe step outside and look at your words from a different point of view.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10623 on: September 17, 2015, 07:30:48 PM »
A couple weeks ago, I heard my boss worrying loudly on the phone that he would never be able to save enough money to retire (he has been making at least 130k for many years).  Today he showed me a picture of his brand new, 3-seat wave runner.  He also has a boat, and drives a truck 40 min to and from work each day.  It's kind of painful to watch.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10624 on: September 18, 2015, 01:58:40 AM »
Me: Don't you want to take my umbrella, I don't need it now and it's going to rain.
Co-worker: I'll just take a cab if it's raining.

For a 10 minute walk..

theadvicist

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10625 on: September 18, 2015, 02:36:35 AM »
Me: Don't you want to take my umbrella, I don't need it now and it's going to rain.
Co-worker: I'll just take a cab if it's raining.

For a 10 minute walk..
This would be a foolish strategy in my city anyway (aside from taking a cab for 10 minute walk). As soon as the first rain drop falls, everyone sticks their arm out. Finding a cab during a shower is like finding a sober person at closing time in my local.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10626 on: September 18, 2015, 06:09:46 AM »
..you know if you have to defend every post you make - that is no fun.

If you (not you Rosy, the general you) have to defend a post or two every now and then, maybe people are being assholes to you and nitpicking your choices.

If you have to defend nearly every post you make, maybe step outside and look at your words from a different point of view.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10627 on: September 18, 2015, 06:52:36 AM »
I just overheard a coworker say that he thought he would be less stressed out at work if he didn't have to drive 30 minutes to get here. (but is he going to do anything about that? no.)
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Making Cookies

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10628 on: September 18, 2015, 07:40:35 AM »
I just overheard a coworker say that he thought he would be less stressed out at work if he didn't have to drive 30 minutes to get here. (but is he going to do anything about that? no.)

Like my coworker(s) that used to complain about the price of fuel. Were they going to drive less or make their next vehicle purchase a fuel sipper? Nope. Now folks are buying vehicles like $2 gas will last forever. Maybe it will last a year or maybe it will last five years. I figure the Saudis are just building dependence and bankrupting the competition - and then prices will climb again. Sort of entertaining from my perspective b/c we keep driving the same old four banger whether prices or high or low. We just save more when the prices are low. $20 to fill up last night. Haven't seen that in a long time...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10629 on: September 18, 2015, 08:20:52 AM »
I've got one.

Well paid coworker goes from fascination to fascination spending tens of thousands. For a while it was motorcycles. Had to have several. Spent tens of thousands on new motorcycles. Then it was model trains. Spent thousands. Then it was hunting. Spent thousands. Then it was musical instruments. Spent thousands. I think fishing was in there for a while too.

Must either have a warehouse to store all these hobbies or I need to get in on the possible downstream fire sales each time he switches hobbies. Buy, clean, and resale. I know someone else who had a coworker who had a revolving list of hobbies and he was downstream of the sell-offs. Some nice stuff could be had for cheap as the coworker scrambled to raise money for the next round of new things.

No idea about their finance specifics but I know I could have retired on what I estimate their income to be long, long ago.

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10630 on: September 18, 2015, 12:25:45 PM »
..you know if you have to defend every post you make - that is no fun.

If you (not you Rosy, the general you) have to defend a post or two every now and then, maybe people are being assholes to you and nitpicking your choices.

If you have to defend nearly every post you make, maybe step outside and look at your words from a different point of view.

I <3 the CS.

Thanks! I was actually thinking of the exchange quoted below when I wrote that, I just said it a little nicer than the good Dr. Agon Car. BTW, this took a lot of combing old posts to find. But I found some old funny shit along the way so it was totally worth it! Enjoy:


Awn, rebs, you're such a nice guy!

I have absolutely no problem not responding to the people in the introduction thread.

I have to actively refrain from telling people in the introduction thread to go to hell.

Well, that makes me extremely glad I never posted in that thread. I wouldn't want the urge to tell people to go to hell on a daily basis.

It's more because I'm a grump than because of the people in the thread.  YMMV

edit: you know the saying: if you meet an asshole in the morning, you met an asshole.  if you meet assholes all day, you're the asshole :-P
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shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10631 on: September 19, 2015, 01:35:48 AM »
Another freelancer who was equating expenses reimbursed by a client (they give back 100% so your financial position is the same) with general freelance expenses (reduce your taxable income, so effectively discounted by 25%).

lakemom

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10632 on: September 19, 2015, 05:27:56 AM »
I was homeschooled. I probably won't have kids. If I do have kids I would prefer to homeschool them. I don't mind paying taxes for the schools because I want school to be an available option for everybody because I want to live in an educated society. However, I don't believe that spending more money equates to a better education.

I don't like the way some of the schools spend the money that they receive. A friend of mine just got a job at a public school and he said they are giving every student an ipad mini this year. The students have to return the ipads at the end of the year, but still. That just seems like they are trying to think up ways to spend money.

The ipads are because the PUBLISHERS are going to digital content...way cheaper than printing books (but costs the schools nearly the same).  Its becoming a HUGE problem for the parochial elementary school my youngest is in and we've been fundraising like crazy (last 3 years) to get enough computers (desktops, laptops and ipads) that we can just take the state mandated testing!!!  Which is now all online...no more filling in the little dots in a booklet.  The public schools here give the ipads in 6th grade, 7th if you attended one of the nonpublic elementaries.

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10633 on: September 19, 2015, 11:05:46 AM »
Another freelancer who was equating expenses reimbursed by a client (they give back 100% so your financial position is the same) with general freelance expenses (reduce your taxable income, so effectively discounted by 25%).

Oh god, that concept and my mom do not mesh. I'm an accountant, and I've been trying to explain this to her for that past 10 years. She does not understand. She's got a side business, teaching people computers and fixing them (southeast Michigan and need help, PM me). She uses a spreadsheet to track her income, including the reimbursements from clients for purchased equipment, etc. Expenses go in a particular drawer and are added up at the end of the year! After she messed up the spreadsheet, again, I redid the spreadsheet. Now, it's got a section for income and a separate section for the expenses, with instructions in big lettering. But since I know what the heck she did, I can convert it to a cash basis income statement for their taxes.

At least she tracks the income. All receipts for expenses go into a drawer. It used to be a shoebox, so we've made progress at least.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10634 on: September 19, 2015, 11:13:18 AM »
Do they have to use (overly expensive) ipad's specifically?  As someone who missed this digital book technology era while in school, I'm jealous of kids who won't have to carry around a backpack/arm-full of books.  I saw this coming about 10 years ago shortly after I finished college, and think it's awesome.  It COULD be one of the better uses of new technology (I work in IT and view 95% of technology as a pointless waste that doesn't actually improve our lives, so am always excited to see a good use of it).  But I pictured it happening with cheap e-readers like a Kindle, not the most expensive tablet possible.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10635 on: September 19, 2015, 11:32:50 AM »
As someone who missed this digital book technology era while in school, I'm jealous of kids who won't have to carry around a backpack/arm-full of books.  I saw this coming about 10 years ago shortly after I finished college, and think it's awesome.  It COULD be one of the better uses of new technology (I work in IT and view 95% of technology as a pointless waste that doesn't actually improve our lives, so am always excited to see a good use of it).  But I pictured it happening with cheap e-readers like a Kindle, not the most expensive tablet possible.
And it means that schools have to re-buy (sorry licence, they never own) the books each year - how else can the publishers make $10/year/student on copies of Moby Dick or Grapes of Wrath ?

A friend lectures intro maths at university and they are required to do quizzes using an electronic clicker thing that comes with the $100 textbook. That way you are forced to buy the new edition of the textbook covering all the breakthroughs in introductory algebra that have been made in the last 12 months.
 
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 12:35:53 PM by nobodyspecial »

lostamonkey

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10636 on: September 19, 2015, 03:36:05 PM »
As someone who missed this digital book technology era while in school, I'm jealous of kids who won't have to carry around a backpack/arm-full of books.  I saw this coming about 10 years ago shortly after I finished college, and think it's awesome.  It COULD be one of the better uses of new technology (I work in IT and view 95% of technology as a pointless waste that doesn't actually improve our lives, so am always excited to see a good use of it).  But I pictured it happening with cheap e-readers like a Kindle, not the most expensive tablet possible.
And it means that schools have to re-buy (sorry licence, they never own) the books each year - how else can the publishers make $10/year/student on copies of Moby Dick or Grapes of Wrath ?

A friend lectures intro maths at university and they are required to do quizzes using an electronic clicker thing that comes with the $100 textbook. That way you are forced to buy the new edition of the textbook covering all the breakthroughs in introductory algebra that have been made in the last 12 months.

We also used clickers when I was in university. You could buy them used on Kijiji which is what I did. I also bought old editions of the textbooks used.

eyePod

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10637 on: September 19, 2015, 05:53:00 PM »
This thread has turned into a real downer. I come here to mock your ridiculous coworkers. Post more of that for my entertainment!

Sorry! I'm done.

I have pretty awesome coworkers who are frugal and talk about retirements and pensions, though they do get excited about new shoe stores. However, I was talking with a friend the other day who was complaining that her friend was stingy. Her stingy friend actually saves up money to buy things like furniture instead of using the furniture store payment plans. *gasp* Of course I laughed and told her I agreed with her friend. AND I almost always buy used things and have never actually bought furniture from a furniture store.

Drove past a furniture store here today and saw a sign that said 8 years interest free!!!

I didn't know pressboard furniture would last 8 years... ;) Their furniture is okay - we have some. Just teasing about their sign. Definitely not heirloom quality stuff but it's lasted a decade. Didn't want to spend big money on great furniture while we had small kids in the house. Everybody is past that so we'll buy something nicer next time. Will certainly pay with cash and not necessarily from there. ;)

Loans on furniture are insane to me! I mean it's one thing to put it on a CC, but to "finance" it through the store? What the... FWIW, I have quite a bit of furniture from IKEA and it's all held up very well.

We financed our bedroom furniture. I told the salesman that I wanted the set for X out the door including taxes. He said he wasn't sure. I told him he could do it cash or finance, whichever gave him a bigger cut. He took the finance and I paid it off when I got the first bill. The worst part was when they said they couldn't do the deal but they could for $175 on top of it. I started to leave and the manager said "you're willing to walk over $175???" I said "of course." They gave me the deal.
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notquitefrugal

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10638 on: September 19, 2015, 08:19:58 PM »
smoke a joint (a whole joint)

So do people not smoke a whole joint at a time?

"Today's episode has been brought to you by the letter joint."
"Joint isn't a letter."
Today's episode has been brought to you by the number 3. That's how many joints I've smoked today!"

LOL! For those who don't get the reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbueiDkMXdc

Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10639 on: September 19, 2015, 08:43:31 PM »
smoke a joint (a whole joint)

So do people not smoke a whole joint at a time?

"Today's episode has been brought to you by the letter joint."
"Joint isn't a letter."
Today's episode has been brought to you by the number 3. That's how many joints I've smoked today!"

LOL! For those who don't get the reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbueiDkMXdc

Not that far off considering it's been about 10 years since I saw that.

TomTX

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10640 on: September 19, 2015, 08:58:42 PM »
So, I have a co-worker who has 56 years of service. You read that correctly. Not 5-6 years. 56 years. In the same job. He retired sometime in the '90s and came back to work like 3 months later. He's getting a pension with medical, he's getting social security, his wife is getting social security. His job isn't particularly critical  or high end, and he's not really passionate about it.

The unofficial/grapevine explanation is that his "Honey-do" list reads more like "War and Peace" and the only peace he gets is at work... *sigh*

He loves to mess around with money. Perhaps, he loves talking about messing around with money, keeping the funds scattered across a dozen different places and with a half dozen financial advisors (apparently his wife has DIFFERENT financial advisors) - it seems like every few weeks there is something that he needs to mess around with, and after asking his paid advisors, he'll then want to ask ME and talk by way of stock tickers and ETF tickers. He's been doing this random investing for decades, starting with the tech boom in the'90s, which he rode up...and down. Heavily down, as he was in individual stocks like Dell.

I did sit down with him, found the most reasonable Vanguard product for his actual needs (VBIAX) - after that, each round of discussion I just listen politely for a bit and when he asks me what I think he should put whatever current chunk of money in, I just say "Whatever that Vanguard fund we agreed on" and move on with my day. Or when he asks me what I think of the latest market move, I'll just shrug and tell him again that I'm really not watching day-to-day or month-to-month. I'm not worried about it.



Since SWMBO and I both work in traffic, we find ourselves taking photos of traffic devices and signage, vehicles and occupants, and discussing the merits/challenges of the traffic network just about everywhere we go. Not having to solve the problems is our vacation. Coming home with the ideas and observations makes us more open.

I recommend you vacation in Salt Lake City and drive through the intersection at Bangeter and 3900S.... I can't totally explain it but it's very cool. The left turn lane instead of being in middle crosses behind the other traffic before the intersection which has the net result of cutting 1/3 of the time out of hey he light cycle (since you no longer  need a left turn light).

I love the concept, in Michigan they call it the "Michigan left."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_left#Applicable_traffic_studies
[/quote]

Sounds more like some variant of a continuous flow intersection since the crossover for the left is BEFORE the intersection, not after.

http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/aus/us290/continuous-flow.pdf
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Astatine

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10641 on: September 19, 2015, 10:27:06 PM »
I've got one.

Well paid coworker goes from fascination to fascination spending tens of thousands. For a while it was motorcycles. Had to have several. Spent tens of thousands on new motorcycles. Then it was model trains. Spent thousands. Then it was hunting. Spent thousands. Then it was musical instruments. Spent thousands. I think fishing was in there for a while too.

Must either have a warehouse to store all these hobbies or I need to get in on the possible downstream fire sales each time he switches hobbies. Buy, clean, and resale. I know someone else who had a coworker who had a revolving list of hobbies and he was downstream of the sell-offs. Some nice stuff could be had for cheap as the coworker scrambled to raise money for the next round of new things.

No idea about their finance specifics but I know I could have retired on what I estimate their income to be long, long ago.

That boggles my mind. See, I jump from hobby to hobby to obsession to hobby. There's no such as thing a lifelong hobby to me. But... it doesn't need to cost much. I got obsessed with knitting for a couple of years. I was out the cost of needles and some cheapish acrylic yarn (and most of my friends ended up with a scarf). Then I got obsessed with trying to understand economics. This was pre-MMM so instead of borrowing from the library, I was out the cost of a few books. Photography? I bought a low-ish end digital camera for a few hundred dollars, read a few photography articles online. And so on.

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10642 on: September 20, 2015, 09:18:15 PM »
Overheard on the way to work. Not antimustachian, but funny so what the hell. So two ladies on the street were walking kinda slowly so I only heard part of the conversation. One said to the other: "When I say the dicks were out. The. Dicks. Were. Out!" Someone had an orgy that weekend (it was on a Monday)!
Walking slowly, as in, limping? Sorry, couldn't resist.

On the sportier side of it, the S2000 is a great investment (seriously! No, it isn't VTSMX). I drove a Miata hard for 4 years and 60,000 miles and sold it for about $3,500 less than we paid for it. Not too bad, all things considered--less than $1000 a year in depreciation, and a lot of mileage on there. Corvettes don't depreciate that much if you take care of them and don't pile on miles...

I just don't understand the stuck up rich person stigma associated with a convertible.

/Rant
I drove the shit out of an S2000 for a few years and only lost $2K on the sale. And I managed to get decent mileage out of it, 25+, near 30 sometimes, just by shifting up to keep RPMs down. Still kinda miss it, but love the Volt even more in its own way. \m/
Would like to have another convertible someday. Maybe. ;)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 08:13:18 AM by zephyr911 »
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dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10643 on: September 20, 2015, 09:52:42 PM »
This thread has turned into a real downer. I come here to mock your ridiculous coworkers. Post more of that for my entertainment!

Sorry! I'm done.

I have pretty awesome coworkers who are frugal and talk about retirements and pensions, though they do get excited about new shoe stores. However, I was talking with a friend the other day who was complaining that her friend was stingy. Her stingy friend actually saves up money to buy things like furniture instead of using the furniture store payment plans. *gasp* Of course I laughed and told her I agreed with her friend. AND I almost always buy used things and have never actually bought furniture from a furniture store.

Drove past a furniture store here today and saw a sign that said 8 years interest free!!!

I didn't know pressboard furniture would last 8 years... ;) Their furniture is okay - we have some. Just teasing about their sign. Definitely not heirloom quality stuff but it's lasted a decade. Didn't want to spend big money on great furniture while we had small kids in the house. Everybody is past that so we'll buy something nicer next time. Will certainly pay with cash and not necessarily from there. ;)

Loans on furniture are insane to me! I mean it's one thing to put it on a CC, but to "finance" it through the store? What the... FWIW, I have quite a bit of furniture from IKEA and it's all held up very well.

We financed our bedroom furniture. I told the salesman that I wanted the set for X out the door including taxes. He said he wasn't sure. I told him he could do it cash or finance, whichever gave him a bigger cut. He took the finance and I paid it off when I got the first bill. The worst part was when they said they couldn't do the deal but they could for $175 on top of it. I started to leave and the manager said "you're willing to walk over $175???" I said "of course." They gave me the deal.

I never understood why some people say things like that.  "It's just a dollar, man, who cares?"  Ok, then you give me the dollar if it means nothing to you.  Scale up appropriately

Making Cookies

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10644 on: September 21, 2015, 08:24:57 AM »
I work in IT and view 95% of technology as a pointless waste that doesn't actually improve our lives, so am always excited to see a good use of it). 

But I pictured it happening with cheap e-readers like a Kindle, not the most expensive tablet possible.

Yes - these two statements. We have an old Kindle with the "digital ink" display. Thing will go forever on a charge. Can't read them in the dark but I like to read on it better than our modern tablets with the backlit display. Less fatigue. The old Kindle was much cheaper and offered less potential distractions to the child than a newer tablet with frequent potential notifications popping up - FB, Twitter, whatever else...

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10645 on: September 21, 2015, 08:27:54 AM »
This comment inspires me to go take a dump, because it was shitty. Thanks!

Gawd, everyone here is like a seventh grade girl experiencing hormone mood swings for the first time. Get over it ya'll.
It's a little ironic to follow a poop joke with accusations of immaturity, wouldn't you say?

Also, it's "y'all". As in, "you'all." Fun with contractions!
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frugalparagon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10646 on: September 21, 2015, 08:57:08 AM »
I work in IT and view 95% of technology as a pointless waste that doesn't actually improve our lives, so am always excited to see a good use of it). 

But I pictured it happening with cheap e-readers like a Kindle, not the most expensive tablet possible.

Yes - these two statements. We have an old Kindle with the "digital ink" display. Thing will go forever on a charge. Can't read them in the dark but I like to read on it better than our modern tablets with the backlit display. Less fatigue. The old Kindle was much cheaper and offered less potential distractions to the child than a newer tablet with frequent potential notifications popping up - FB, Twitter, whatever else...

I read on my phone a lot. I just log out of the Facebook app so it won't interrupt my reading by telling me it is the birthday of someone whom I taught in seventh grade six years ago.
I blog about Mustachianism during the child-raising years at frugalparagon.com.

And I tell the real story in my journal, https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/still-living-well-in-the-living-room-but-what's-my-next-move/

seanc0x0

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10647 on: September 21, 2015, 01:40:21 PM »
As someone who missed this digital book technology era while in school, I'm jealous of kids who won't have to carry around a backpack/arm-full of books.  I saw this coming about 10 years ago shortly after I finished college, and think it's awesome.  It COULD be one of the better uses of new technology (I work in IT and view 95% of technology as a pointless waste that doesn't actually improve our lives, so am always excited to see a good use of it).  But I pictured it happening with cheap e-readers like a Kindle, not the most expensive tablet possible.
And it means that schools have to re-buy (sorry licence, they never own) the books each year - how else can the publishers make $10/year/student on copies of Moby Dick or Grapes of Wrath ?

A friend lectures intro maths at university and they are required to do quizzes using an electronic clicker thing that comes with the $100 textbook. That way you are forced to buy the new edition of the textbook covering all the breakthroughs in introductory algebra that have been made in the last 12 months.

I'm taking a couple classes while working (I work at a University, get one free class per term), and fortunately I don't have to use a clicker. They sell separately for $55 here.

I did have to pay $200 (!!!) for a new French textbook with a special code that gives me access to a website that we're required to use for the class. You can't buy just a code, so they get the full price and shut down the used market. The marginally cheaper version on Amazon also doesn't include a code.  It's a huge scam, but if you want to take the class, you gotta pay.

infogoon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10648 on: September 21, 2015, 02:10:30 PM »
I did have to pay $200 (!!!) for a new French textbook with a special code that gives me access to a website that we're required to use for the class. You can't buy just a code, so they get the full price and shut down the used market. The marginally cheaper version on Amazon also doesn't include a code.  It's a huge scam, but if you want to take the class, you gotta pay.

I went through the same thing for a Finance class - you needed to get the access code in order to get to the online quizzes and supplementary material from the publisher. So, either spend $200 on the book, or $75 on a used copy and $150 for a fresh code. Nice of them to sell it separately.

lemanfan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10649 on: September 21, 2015, 02:21:58 PM »
How big is the kickback to the person selecting these books for the courses?