Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 6045012 times)

shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18700 on: September 19, 2017, 03:09:47 AM »
^^Surely vehicle weight and miles driven are correlated with petrol ("gas") used. So tax petrol and use it to maintain roads.

... for now. But with the advent of electric cars, this will no longer be the case:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/treasury-tax-electric-cars-vat-fuel-duty
I know that in some countries, governments are considering taxing car use for road improvement by requiring recording devices in every car, that report the distance driven each month.

Fair enough, but it's still the case NOW and American petrol is known for being ridiculously cheap so they could easily jack up the tax on that for the time being.

nobody123

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18701 on: September 19, 2017, 06:45:56 AM »
^^Surely vehicle weight and miles driven are correlated with petrol ("gas") used. So tax petrol and use it to maintain roads.

... for now. But with the advent of electric cars, this will no longer be the case:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/treasury-tax-electric-cars-vat-fuel-duty
I know that in some countries, governments are considering taxing car use for road improvement by requiring recording devices in every car, that report the distance driven each month.

Fair enough, but it's still the case NOW and American petrol is known for being ridiculously cheap so they could easily jack up the tax on that for the time being.

It is EXTREMELY unpopular to raise the gas tax, since it affects essentially everyone, rich and poor alike.  Even those without vehicles are affected as service providers like trash collection just pass it along as part of their "fuel cost surcharge".

Raenia

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18702 on: September 19, 2017, 07:09:23 AM »
There was some talk of adding a mileage tax, assessed at the required annual emissions inspection, in my area.  I don't think it passed, but it would have been a good complement to the gas tax - we already have one of the highest gas taxes in the country, and you wouldn't know it from the roads :/

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18703 on: September 19, 2017, 08:24:57 AM »
I read about someone online who was running his diesel off of waste oil (greasecar). He tried the DMV, state police, secretary of state, etc., trying to figure out how he could pay his road tax. Nobody could help him. He has been keeping track of everything, but as he's gone through about 2 gallons of diesel in the past 4 years he's not paid nearly any of his road tax because no one knows how.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18704 on: September 19, 2017, 08:33:36 AM »
There was some talk of adding a mileage tax, assessed at the required annual emissions inspection, in my area.  I don't think it passed, but it would have been a good complement to the gas tax - we already have one of the highest gas taxes in the country, and you wouldn't know it from the roads :/
This is a great example of why, as nobody123 pointed out, increasing the gas tax is unpopular.  People may not understand the word "fungible," but they *do* understand when they're being taxed more to take care of the roads, and the roads aren't being maintained.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18705 on: September 19, 2017, 10:09:36 AM »
One of my colleagues lives in a $5.3 million house in a beach suburb.

Her neighbours just bought the $2.9 million house next door with the sole purpose of demolishing it to improve their ocean view.

Like, they already own the house behind it and it was blocking their view?  Or they're going to rebuild it more to their liking?

They own the house behind it and it was partially blocking their view.


Hey, this could be a shrewd investment concept.     Buy adjacent property, remove home, maybe a tree that also blocks your own view.  Maybe put a small (cheap) affordable home for renters where you can't see it, to cover taxes, maybe not.   

Live in own home for 2 more years, then renovate existing home, sell it for $10 million in perfect condition with fabulous view.   Then build a massive house on the second property, again blocking the first home's view, or just sell the land as is to someone else for $3 million (as it has a new small home on it), or for $5 million (to the people that just bought the first home).

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18706 on: September 19, 2017, 10:28:42 AM »

That's correct.  There is no early retirement before 55 and that's with a substantially reduced payout and still requiremes many years of earned service credit (not sure of the exact amount but I know it's more than 20).  We contribute 9 percent. It used to be less but has risen every year for awhile now.  We don't have control over the contribution amount.

The formula comes out to a little more than half your salary at retirement at full payout.  Since most state workers make less than 50k...again, better off in the private sector in almost every circumstance.

Edit:  The pension used to be a lot better and still is for anyone who got in about five years ago who were grandfathered in.  The old system was too good to be sustainable, I agree, but the benefits were slashed so much for the new workers that now the state is having the opposite problem:  they can't hold onto anyone because they still want to pay the same low wages with a much crappier pension.

That is horrible.  At 9%, the employees under 40 are essentially fully funding their own retirement plans -- this is a zero benefit, other than the "convenience" of having your employer force you to automatically contribute...   and those over 40 would not get much payout because retiring after anything less than 25 years of service would be under the full "90".. but at least their total $s received versus $'s put in would be higher than the young person.

The pension plan I walked away from was a required contribution of 9% from me, and matched with something like 6-8% by the company, vested after 2 years, so a lot of money... AND they were paying market rates for salaries, even though they told themselves that they weren't.  Heck, in some cities with heavy government (the capital), people there make MORE than the industry will bear.  Anyway this "pension" would end up with my having far too much money in retirement and not enough in the current year. 

I think the reason that your employer only pays 2% interest on their contributions is because the company is not putting any of their own money to be vested so there is nothing to "vest".

Sounds like a job for people having trouble getting hired, so you can work for 2-4 years for experience, then get out with your "pension" lump sum....  like a FT paid internship...   Not what the management has in mind, I am sure.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18707 on: September 19, 2017, 11:30:25 AM »

That's correct.  There is no early retirement before 55 and that's with a substantially reduced payout and still requiremes many years of earned service credit (not sure of the exact amount but I know it's more than 20).  We contribute 9 percent. It used to be less but has risen every year for awhile now.  We don't have control over the contribution amount.

The formula comes out to a little more than half your salary at retirement at full payout.  Since most state workers make less than 50k...again, better off in the private sector in almost every circumstance.

Edit:  The pension used to be a lot better and still is for anyone who got in about five years ago who were grandfathered in.  The old system was too good to be sustainable, I agree, but the benefits were slashed so much for the new workers that now the state is having the opposite problem:  they can't hold onto anyone because they still want to pay the same low wages with a much crappier pension.

That is horrible.  At 9%, the employees under 40 are essentially fully funding their own retirement plans -- this is a zero benefit, other than the "convenience" of having your employer force you to automatically contribute...   and those over 40 would not get much payout because retiring after anything less than 25 years of service would be under the full "90".. but at least their total $s received versus $'s put in would be higher than the young person.

The pension plan I walked away from was a required contribution of 9% from me, and matched with something like 6-8% by the company, vested after 2 years, so a lot of money... AND they were paying market rates for salaries, even though they told themselves that they weren't.  Heck, in some cities with heavy government (the capital), people there make MORE than the industry will bear.  Anyway this "pension" would end up with my having far too much money in retirement and not enough in the current year. 

I think the reason that your employer only pays 2% interest on their contributions is because the company is not putting any of their own money to be vested so there is nothing to "vest".

Sounds like a job for people having trouble getting hired, so you can work for 2-4 years for experience, then get out with your "pension" lump sum....  like a FT paid internship...   Not what the management has in mind, I am sure.

For fun I created a spreadsheet. Assumed that you're paid $100k annually with no raises and you contribute 9% of that annually and get a 10% return. By the year 34 the amount will have exceeded $2.5M (this is before inflation), meaning that you will get more than $100k annually if you withdraw 4%.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18708 on: September 19, 2017, 11:33:03 AM »


For fun I created a spreadsheet.

Yeah baby tell me more

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18709 on: September 19, 2017, 11:45:34 AM »

arebelspy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18710 on: September 19, 2017, 11:46:06 PM »
MgoSam is the accountant version of bloodninja.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
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MonkeyJenga

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18711 on: September 20, 2017, 05:15:49 AM »
MgoSam is the accountant version of bloodninja.

.... Wow. I've seen references to "I put on my robe and wizard hat" before and now I finally understand it!

marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18712 on: September 20, 2017, 06:27:17 AM »
MgoSam is the accountant version of bloodninja.

.... Wow. I've seen references to "I put on my robe and wizard hat" before and now I finally understand it!

Read the entire top 200 on there. I died laughing. But unfortunately there a lot of stolen jokes from there now. The top 100/200 pages are two different pages by the way (makes no sense).
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 06:31:26 AM by marielle »

jordanread

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18713 on: September 20, 2017, 07:09:49 AM »
Ah, bash.org. The hours I've spent.
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MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18714 on: September 20, 2017, 09:36:05 AM »
Bringing back some orange foam, from maybe not even this thread.  There was discussion about leaving your car running while pumping gas...  Over the weekend I got some gas, and a police officer did the same, but kept his car running while he got his.  So I'm guessing it's at least legal to do.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18715 on: September 20, 2017, 10:20:27 AM »
MgoSam is the accountant version of bloodninja.

Jesus, there's an old and obscure geek reference I haven't heard in a while.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18716 on: September 20, 2017, 10:30:51 AM »
Bringing back some orange foam, from maybe not even this thread.  There was discussion about leaving your car running while pumping gas...  Over the weekend I got some gas, and a police officer did the same, but kept his car running while he got his.  So I'm guessing it's at least legal to do.

All the gas stations here have signs that tell you to turn off the engine.  Also to ground yourself - which I figure I do when I get out of the car and touch the gas pump.

Plus if you search on-line for this there are emission control systems and gas vapour control systems that get messed up if you always fill up the car while running.
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iowajes

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18717 on: September 20, 2017, 10:51:25 AM »
Not anti-mustachian but at work:

Our work has 3 breakrooms with fridges in each.  So many people are bringing their lunches they had to put a second fridge in each breakroom.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18718 on: September 20, 2017, 10:57:59 AM »
CW #1 (having issues with his '14 truck that he bought certified a year ago): Man, this (whatever issue is going on) should be covered.  I just bought it a year ago!

CW #2: That's why I always lease.  The best insurance policy money can buy, baby!

Me in my head: :facepalm:

Later in the day, 529 plans come up:

CW #1: I checked and we have about $40K saved up for our daughter, who goes off to college in five years.  I'm worried it's not enough.

CW #2: That's great, man!  We only put away $25/month for each of the (two) kids.

CW #2: In fact, I talked to DW about my bonus coming up if we should set that aside for the kids' college fund and she just laughed and said, "No **** that."
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 01:56:20 PM by DarkandStormy »
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MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18719 on: September 20, 2017, 01:51:11 PM »
MgoSam is the accountant version of bloodninja.

.... Wow. I've seen references to "I put on my robe and wizard hat" before and now I finally understand it!

Me too, now I know where that comes from. #themoreyouknow

economista

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18720 on: September 20, 2017, 03:23:29 PM »

Overall, I'd say only five to ten percent of the women who can afford it were wearing fake nails. The ones who do, tend to be concentrated either in entertainment-related industries where a high maintenance appearance is considered necessary, or in very low-end service jobs where it's important to hide dirt that may be under the fingernails.

I just had this conversation (argument) with my mom.  I got married a few weeks ago and I invited my mom and sister to go with me the morning of the wedding to get our nails done.  In my mind, getting your nails done means a little polish on the fingernails, and a professional person filing them so they are the same length and look nice.  To my mom and sister, "nails done" means fake nail monstrosities that look stupid and cost a crapload of money.  My mom threw a fit when I said I wasn't getting fake nails, and I kept telling her I didn't want them, and she kept saying I had to.  I finally lost my temper and told her I think fake nails are extremely trashy, because you only see low-class people with fake nails.  (My meaning was low-class in terms of personality, not only in terms of finances).  Then she pouted because I hurt her feelings, but I did it because she wouldn't stop pushing.  And it's true!  You never see successful, professional women with fake nails. 
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18721 on: September 20, 2017, 04:19:22 PM »

Overall, I'd say only five to ten percent of the women who can afford it were wearing fake nails. The ones who do, tend to be concentrated either in entertainment-related industries where a high maintenance appearance is considered necessary, or in very low-end service jobs where it's important to hide dirt that may be under the fingernails.

I just had this conversation (argument) with my mom.  I got married a few weeks ago and I invited my mom and sister to go with me the morning of the wedding to get our nails done.  In my mind, getting your nails done means a little polish on the fingernails, and a professional person filing them so they are the same length and look nice.  To my mom and sister, "nails done" means fake nail monstrosities that look stupid and cost a crapload of money.  My mom threw a fit when I said I wasn't getting fake nails, and I kept telling her I didn't want them, and she kept saying I had to.  I finally lost my temper and told her I think fake nails are extremely trashy, because you only see low-class people with fake nails.  (My meaning was low-class in terms of personality, not only in terms of finances).  Then she pouted because I hurt her feelings, but I did it because she wouldn't stop pushing.  And it's true!  You never see successful, professional women with fake nails.

That's because a well done professional manicure sold to a wealthy woman doesn't look fake. The goal of such a manicure is to make her look good by ensuring her nails look flawless and attractively trimmed and polished. I no doubt missed some of these manicures during my study, misclassifying them as "real". Such a manicure is just as expensive as the flashy kind, but the person who gets it is expected to be able to afford it and doesn't have anything to prove by using nouveau-riche status symbols that say: "look at me, I've got money!"

The only people who buy flashy professional manicures and pedicures are people who are insecure about their money. They may be able to afford it (or not), but unfortunately they give a fuck about about the opinions of people who aren't important. Hence the need to attract attention by buying conspicuous consumption items.
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Megma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18722 on: September 20, 2017, 04:56:02 PM »

Overall, I'd say only five to ten percent of the women who can afford it were wearing fake nails. The ones who do, tend to be concentrated either in entertainment-related industries where a high maintenance appearance is considered necessary, or in very low-end service jobs where it's important to hide dirt that may be under the fingernails.

I just had this conversation (argument) with my mom.  I got married a few weeks ago and I invited my mom and sister to go with me the morning of the wedding to get our nails done.  In my mind, getting your nails done means a little polish on the fingernails, and a professional person filing them so they are the same length and look nice.  To my mom and sister, "nails done" means fake nail monstrosities that look stupid and cost a crapload of money.  My mom threw a fit when I said I wasn't getting fake nails, and I kept telling her I didn't want them, and she kept saying I had to.  I finally lost my temper and told her I think fake nails are extremely trashy, because you only see low-class people with fake nails.  (My meaning was low-class in terms of personality, not only in terms of finances).  Then she pouted because I hurt her feelings, but I did it because she wouldn't stop pushing.  And it's true!  You never see successful, professional women with fake nails.

That's because a well done professional manicure sold to a wealthy woman doesn't look fake. The goal of such a manicure is to make her look good by ensuring her nails look flawless and attractively trimmed and polished. I no doubt missed some of these manicures during my study, misclassifying them as "real". Such a manicure is just as expensive as the flashy kind, but the person who gets it is expected to be able to afford it and doesn't have anything to prove by using nouveau-riche status symbols that say: "look at me, I've got money!"

The only people who buy flashy professional manicures and pedicures are people who are insecure about their money. They may be able to afford it (or not), but unfortunately they give a fuck about about the opinions of people who aren't important. Hence the need to attract attention by buying conspicuous consumption items.

Agreed. In my circles (professional office women) no one has fake/acrylic nails but shellac/gel manicures are really popular. It's a professionally applied and long lasting nail polish on your real nails. It's just as expensive as fake nails (~40$ a pop) but it looks great for about 3 weeks (compared to 5 days for normal polish).

I'll get it done if i have to travel for work and need it look good for a whole week of meetings. Especially since this happens once or twice a year (People can think i look good all the time, since they rarely see me lol).

But i have a coworker who has it done every 2 weeks or so. She got it done so much that over the summer her salon made her take a break because her nails had thinnedtoo much from it they refused to do it for her.
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mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18723 on: September 20, 2017, 05:14:40 PM »
CW #2: That's great, man!  We only put away $25/month for each of the (two) kids.

Are the kids planning on starting college in their 70s?

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18724 on: September 20, 2017, 11:37:52 PM »
CW #2: That's great, man!  We only put away $25/month for each of the (two) kids.

Are the kids planning on starting college in their 70s?

They get 1 college credit on the bank of dad, the rest they pay for themselves.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18725 on: September 21, 2017, 07:34:21 AM »
CW #2: That's great, man!  We only put away $25/month for each of the (two) kids.

Are the kids planning on starting college in their 70s?

They get 1 college credit on the bank of dad, the rest they pay for themselves.
My parents saved $100/month for me (thank you Mom and Dad!)...in the 80s, and that got me through 3 years of out of state tuition.  Inflation adjusted that's like $210/month now assuming 2.5% inflation.  But the price of college has increased more than inflation, although of course you don't have to do out of state.  So yeah, that might get a semester paid for.

My dad wanted me to go to his alma mater, it was a great fit, and he was paying for it, so I did.  I was pretty frugal already, so I definitely would have done something less expensive if I was paying for it.

Drifterrider

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18726 on: September 21, 2017, 09:06:42 AM »
^^Surely vehicle weight and miles driven are correlated with petrol ("gas") used. So tax petrol and use it to maintain roads.

... for now. But with the advent of electric cars, this will no longer be the case:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/treasury-tax-electric-cars-vat-fuel-duty
I know that in some countries, governments are considering taxing car use for road improvement by requiring recording devices in every car, that report the distance driven each month.

Fair enough, but it's still the case NOW and American petrol is known for being ridiculously cheap so they could easily jack up the tax on that for the time being.

No.  You guys are just used to paying very high taxes so when you see someone who isn't you mistake it for cheap rather than your prices as expensive.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18727 on: September 21, 2017, 10:01:18 AM »
^^Surely vehicle weight and miles driven are correlated with petrol ("gas") used. So tax petrol and use it to maintain roads.

... for now. But with the advent of electric cars, this will no longer be the case:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/treasury-tax-electric-cars-vat-fuel-duty
I know that in some countries, governments are considering taxing car use for road improvement by requiring recording devices in every car, that report the distance driven each month.

Fair enough, but it's still the case NOW and American petrol is known for being ridiculously cheap so they could easily jack up the tax on that for the time being.

No.  You guys are just used to paying very high taxes so when you see someone who isn't you mistake it for cheap rather than your prices as expensive.
In Saudi Arabia it's around $.50/gallon. Silly Americans for paying 5 times market rate!

TreesBikesLove

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18728 on: September 21, 2017, 11:47:38 AM »

No.  You guys are just used to paying very high taxes so when you see someone who isn't you mistake it for cheap rather than your prices as expensive.

Silly Yuropeens pricing their commodities at a cost that is high enough to pay for the infrastructure damage caused by that commodity.

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18729 on: September 21, 2017, 12:46:12 PM »

No.  You guys are just used to paying very high taxes so when you see someone who isn't you mistake it for cheap rather than your prices as expensive.

Silly Yuropeens pricing their commodities at a cost that is high enough to pay for the infrastructure damage caused by that commodity.

I don't know if that's quite accurate either. I think it's more of a difference between Europeans and Americans on who is responsible for infrastructure. After all, roads get fixed and built either way. Europe puts most of the burden on drivers who break down the roads and value longer-term solutions (ie roads that last longer). Americans put less burden on drivers and add in some property taxes with the understanding that property values will increase with good infrastructure regardless of an individual owner's usage of those services. Additionally, Americans put more value on easy fixes that may not last as long, but put more low-income jobs on the table which can benefit the community as well. I don't think either is absolutely wrong - just a fundamentally different views.
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wauske

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18730 on: September 21, 2017, 01:25:08 PM »
And the colleague who bought them just told me she keeps borrowing money from her 10-year-old daughter's piggy bank to pay bills.

That's stealing. I don't care it's a 10-year-old or a family member or that she probably gave her the money anyway. That's stealing. What a wonderful lesson this little girl is going to learn.
I do this sometimes but only to borrow when I'm short on cash and always return at least the same in paper money (usually more). We counted the piggy bank recently and it was over 100. Not bad for a 4 year Old's piggy bank :)
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18731 on: September 21, 2017, 01:30:38 PM »
Person at work talking about how her kid HAS to go to a private Catholic school, which costs $18,000 PER YEAR up to 6th grade, then over $20,000 per year for 7th through 12th. I chimed in that the entirety of my 5 year college education required me to take out $22,000 in student loans, and even then I could have done it for less. The response I got was "Well you have to understand that with a school like this, you get what you pay for."

Absolutely ridiculous.

cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18732 on: September 21, 2017, 01:49:33 PM »
Person at work talking about how her kid HAS to go to a private Catholic school, which costs $18,000 PER YEAR up to 6th grade, then over $20,000 per year for 7th through 12th. I chimed in that the entirety of my 5 year college education required me to take out $22,000 in student loans, and even then I could have done it for less. The response I got was "Well you have to understand that with a school like this, you get what you pay for."

Absolutely ridiculous.

Hope that kid graduates high school and immediately lands a $300K/year job
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

tyort1

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18733 on: September 21, 2017, 01:52:42 PM »
Person at work talking about how her kid HAS to go to a private Catholic school, which costs $18,000 PER YEAR up to 6th grade, then over $20,000 per year for 7th through 12th. I chimed in that the entirety of my 5 year college education required me to take out $22,000 in student loans, and even then I could have done it for less. The response I got was "Well you have to understand that with a school like this, you get what you pay for."

Absolutely ridiculous.

Hope that kid graduates high school and immediately lands a $300K/year job

The problem with private schools is that they immediately turn your kids into a 'product', and makes their school experience way more competitive and less enjoyable.  I mean, look at this example - if their kids don't turn out to be top performers, did the parents "get what they paid for"?  I'd hate to be their kid in that situation.
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idahofire

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18734 on: September 21, 2017, 06:33:04 PM »
I was at work yesterday and overheard a coworker talking about a mistaken order she made on Amazon with her regular checking account instead of her credit card. She was freaking out because she's like, "There's no way it would go through, especially 2 days before payday!" Kind of shocking that a woman who is 50 years old and makes about $60k a year wouldn't have sufficient funds to cover a $200 mistake. Insane.

Megma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18735 on: September 21, 2017, 07:04:20 PM »
I was at work yesterday and overheard a coworker talking about a mistaken order she made on Amazon with her regular checking account instead of her credit card. She was freaking out because she's like, "There's no way it would go through, especially 2 days before payday!" Kind of shocking that a woman who is 50 years old and makes about $60k a year wouldn't have sufficient funds to cover a $200 mistake. Insane.

Omg. I would just be upset that I hadn't used my 5% back Amazon card.
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Rife

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18736 on: September 22, 2017, 07:03:23 AM »
CW #1 (having issues with his '14 truck that he bought certified a year ago): Man, this (whatever issue is going on) should be covered.  I just bought it a year ago!

CW #2: That's why I always lease.  The best insurance policy money can buy, baby!

Me in my head: :facepalm:

Later in the day, 529 plans come up:

CW #1: I checked and we have about $40K saved up for our daughter, who goes off to college in five years.  I'm worried it's not enough.

CW #2: That's great, man!  We only put away $25/month for each of the (two) kids.

CW #2: In fact, I talked to DW about my bonus coming up if we should set that aside for the kids' college fund and she just laughed and said, "No **** that."

At least someone gave you a positive response. We typically have to defend our 529. Most say their kids can fend for themselves. as much as people complain about student loans they really don't like the idea of saving money they could be spending on themselves.

I have a few, a guy retired recently at 55, and it has been a common topic. The new office saying is "You could retire at 55 like Bob if you have no kids"(see Bob could only pull off this miracle cause he has no kids). One guy actually said "or if you inherit a lot of money, people do it that way also". Keep in mind, Bob has a huge pension and a retiree medical plan.

My co-worker was describing his new life insurance policy that only cost 6000 dollars a year for 21 years, and while it doesn't pay much now it stays with him after the 21 years (unlike that term insurance). He is unmarried with no kids in his 30s. I didn't get into it, but if I invested that much it would also stay with me for life, grow bigger and...not be tied up in whole life.

Health insurance came up. This year our company is paying the full deductible into an HSA (2600 for a family), and then I explained that you can save money tax free on top of that etc. While there was a bit of interest they couldn't understand why you would want to save more than the annual out of pocket max (since then it is just trapped you see). I tried to explain that money saved can be used after you aren't working anymore but this met with blank stares. I am fairly sure the worry wasn't taking money from their other investments but less to spend on ski trips.
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cheapass

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18737 on: September 22, 2017, 09:28:55 AM »
Health insurance came up. This year our company is paying the full deductible into an HSA (2600 for a family), and then I explained that you can save money tax free on top of that etc. While there was a bit of interest they couldn't understand why you would want to save more than the annual out of pocket max (since then it is just trapped you see). I tried to explain that money saved can be used after you aren't working anymore but this met with blank stares. I am fairly sure the worry wasn't taking money from their other investments but less to spend on ski trips.

I was talking about health insurance with my brother-in-law and he mentioned how much he had to spend every year on the kids and that he usually doesn't even meet his deductible. I suggested he contribute at least his expected spend into a HSA so his medical costs would be tax free.

"Yeah, it'd be nice to put it in an account like that but you have to have money to live too.."

...but you're going to be spending that money anyway... i just... the logic..
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HairyUpperLip

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18738 on: September 22, 2017, 09:35:59 AM »
Not anti-mustachian but at work:

Our work has 3 breakrooms with fridges in each.  So many people are bringing their lunches they had to put a second fridge in each breakroom.

Now the power bill is through the roof!!! Clearly your company should provide catered meals for lunch daily. :-p

RidetheRain

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18739 on: September 22, 2017, 09:38:57 AM »
Health insurance came up. This year our company is paying the full deductible into an HSA (2600 for a family), and then I explained that you can save money tax free on top of that etc. While there was a bit of interest they couldn't understand why you would want to save more than the annual out of pocket max (since then it is just trapped you see). I tried to explain that money saved can be used after you aren't working anymore but this met with blank stares. I am fairly sure the worry wasn't taking money from their other investments but less to spend on ski trips.

I was talking about health insurance with my brother-in-law and he mentioned how much he had to spend every year on the kids and that he usually doesn't even meet his deductible. I suggested he contribute at least his expected spend into a HSA so his medical costs would be tax free.

"Yeah, it'd be nice to put it in an account like that but you have to have money to live too.."

...but you're going to be spending that money anyway... i just... the logic..

See what I think he was saying that is that he likes giving money to the government. Some people love taxes so much that they just want to pay extra!

In reality, this sounds like a case of What-If for him. Some people are chronically worried that they will over-save and have "spent" money poorly.
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marielle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18740 on: September 22, 2017, 10:07:58 AM »
Just remembered something that annoys me... I remember a coworker talking about how he'll save for a while but then he buys a new gun or whatever.

In short I learned that his definition of saving (and many others) is putting some extra money away in your bank and not spending it before your next paycheck. Makes no sense. Maybe I could see it if you are saving for a house (or maybe even a car), but if you're about to buy a $1000 camera that doesn't count as savings... That's just delayed spending.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18741 on: September 22, 2017, 10:42:18 AM »
Just remembered something that annoys me... I remember a coworker talking about how he'll save for a while but then he buys a new gun or whatever.

In short I learned that his definition of saving (and many others) is putting some extra money away in your bank and not spending it before your next paycheck. Makes no sense. Maybe I could see it if you are saving for a house (or maybe even a car), but if you're about to buy a $1000 camera that doesn't count as savings... That's just delayed spending.

I get it.  It's called "saving up for" which is different from "saving"

OHOT, you could say all the money I saved was just delayed spending if the 4% rule works out perfectly and I run out of money on my death bed.

dougules

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18742 on: September 22, 2017, 11:30:24 AM »

No.  You guys are just used to paying very high taxes so when you see someone who isn't you mistake it for cheap rather than your prices as expensive.

Silly Yuropeens pricing their commodities at a cost that is high enough to pay for the infrastructure damage caused by that commodity.

I don't know if that's quite accurate either. I think it's more of a difference between Europeans and Americans on who is responsible for infrastructure. After all, roads get fixed and built either way. Europe puts most of the burden on drivers who break down the roads and value longer-term solutions (ie roads that last longer). Americans put less burden on drivers and add in some property taxes with the understanding that property values will increase with good infrastructure regardless of an individual owner's usage of those services. Additionally, Americans put more value on easy fixes that may not last as long, but put more low-income jobs on the table which can benefit the community as well. I don't think either is absolutely wrong - just a fundamentally different views.

I don't think it's just a difference.  Paying for roads out of the general fund takes away balance from transportation infrastructure.  People demand bigger roads, faster roads, and more roads because the bill is disconnected from actual use.  Our city recently passed a 1 cent sales tax hike to pay to widen roads that mostly benefit people that don't even live within the city limits.  I pay ~1% more for everything I buy even when I'm walking to the store.  I'm trying to be frugal, but paying for superfluous road construction out of the general fund is undermining me.  If we taxed gas proportionally to road spending, I think it would reduce at least a little of the ridiculousness.   Or at least I wouldn't have to pay for it.   

TomTX

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18743 on: September 23, 2017, 09:10:16 AM »
^^Surely vehicle weight and miles driven are correlated with petrol ("gas") used. So tax petrol and use it to maintain roads.

... for now. But with the advent of electric cars, this will no longer be the case:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/treasury-tax-electric-cars-vat-fuel-duty
I know that in some countries, governments are considering taxing car use for road improvement by requiring recording devices in every car, that report the distance driven each month.

Damage does correlate with miles driven, but it correlates with weight to the 4th power so when you double weight, you increase damage by 16x.

Cars do cause congestion, but the damage is negligible compared to trucks.
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zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18744 on: September 23, 2017, 03:04:03 PM »
^^Surely vehicle weight and miles driven are correlated with petrol ("gas") used. So tax petrol and use it to maintain roads.

... for now. But with the advent of electric cars, this will no longer be the case:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/treasury-tax-electric-cars-vat-fuel-duty
I know that in some countries, governments are considering taxing car use for road improvement by requiring recording devices in every car, that report the distance driven each month.
Damage does correlate with miles driven, but it correlates with weight to the 4th power so when you double weight, you increase damage by 16x.

Cars do cause congestion, but the damage is negligible compared to trucks.
I've heard before that trucks cause much more damage than passenger vehicles, but do you have a reference where I could learn more about it?

Paul der Krake

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18745 on: September 23, 2017, 03:37:32 PM »
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/reports/tswstudy/TSWwp3.pdf

Alternatively, look at the pavement near a bus stop.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18746 on: September 23, 2017, 03:44:06 PM »
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/reports/tswstudy/TSWwp3.pdf

Alternatively, look at the pavement near a bus stop.

grr... I scanned the entire document looking for the reference to bus stop pavement design!!!!

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18747 on: September 23, 2017, 04:41:31 PM »
^^Surely vehicle weight and miles driven are correlated with petrol ("gas") used. So tax petrol and use it to maintain roads.

... for now. But with the advent of electric cars, this will no longer be the case:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/treasury-tax-electric-cars-vat-fuel-duty
I know that in some countries, governments are considering taxing car use for road improvement by requiring recording devices in every car, that report the distance driven each month.
Damage does correlate with miles driven, but it correlates with weight to the 4th power so when you double weight, you increase damage by 16x.

Cars do cause congestion, but the damage is negligible compared to trucks.
I've heard before that trucks cause much more damage than passenger vehicles, but do you have a reference where I could learn more about it?

I can see truck tire grooves in major highways, the damage is obvious.  Plus there is a reason for weight restrictions during thaw.
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LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18748 on: September 24, 2017, 02:00:54 AM »
^^Surely vehicle weight and miles driven are correlated with petrol ("gas") used. So tax petrol and use it to maintain roads.

... for now. But with the advent of electric cars, this will no longer be the case:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/treasury-tax-electric-cars-vat-fuel-duty
I know that in some countries, governments are considering taxing car use for road improvement by requiring recording devices in every car, that report the distance driven each month.
Damage does correlate with miles driven, but it correlates with weight to the 4th power so when you double weight, you increase damage by 16x.

Cars do cause congestion, but the damage is negligible compared to trucks.
I've heard before that trucks cause much more damage than passenger vehicles, but do you have a reference where I could learn more about it?

Have you ever seen an ancient Roman's road?
They all have two big grooves because of the wagons driving on them for centuries, but not from the far more people walking on them.

Same applies to cars and trucks on modern roads. You could build a road that sustains even trucks, but you would not like to use it (would have to be harder) and it would be far more expensive. We do have something similar though, its called railway.

jinga nation

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #18749 on: September 25, 2017, 07:48:24 AM »
Noticed that a co-worker had replaced his old RAM 1500 with a new one.

Me "Nice truck!"
Him: "Thanks. The old one, a 2010, was costing me too much."
Me: "Gas guzzler right? This one any better?"
Him: "No. A/C went bad in the old one, cost $3000 to fix. Then some other stuff cost $2000."
Me: "How much repair have you had in the past?"
Him: "None. No issues until a couple of months back."
Me: "Enjoy!"

The new truck is a RAM 1500 Laramie Longhorn that starts just under $50k, with HEMI, two-tone color, crew cab, etc. I know he has money issues, military retirement income in addition to his DoD contractor pay, his wife refuses to work, he's leased a Lexus GS for her, commute is 40-something miles each way, I could go on.

So he couldn't afford to pay $5000 for repairs that would add more years to a 2010 model, but is probably on a 84-month payment plan. If he qualified for the 0.9% APR, it'd be $565/month. Plus he'll continue bitching about gas prices (post-Irma they are $2.59/gal today for regular). Also, he needed 10% down payment to qualify for the low APR financing offer. A lease would have cost him $513/month.

The saddest part is that he hates his job and is always saying he wants to retire and fish.
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