Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8911132 times)

carolinap

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20950 on: September 24, 2018, 02:56:07 PM »
I was going through my usual routine, gassing up the truck to get from one work location to another, and heard this conversation that made me think nothing other than "OH SHIT" for the next five minutes.

Person 1 - Oh yea, the government has been looking at all my accounts now.

Person 2 - Why do they need to know what you have in your account?

Person 1 - Well I got my social security disability payout and they said it was only supposed to be for medical expenses, so I went ahead and bought a handicap accessible house. My lawyer said it wasn't supposed to be used for that, but there's nothin' they can do about it now because I spent it all and its gone! Right?

this is terrifying, this is like a "The Office" moment, when Michael Scott does this terrible naive financial choices

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20951 on: September 25, 2018, 01:02:32 AM »
what's a social security benefits payout?  How large could it possibly get?

Vibrissae

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20952 on: September 25, 2018, 09:18:35 AM »
I asked them how they choose which one to buy and got answers such as "must be trading at less than 10$ a share" and "this one has a cool name" and "this company has some technology that extracts stuff like THC"

That's some sophisticated stock picking, right there.

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20953 on: September 25, 2018, 11:17:52 AM »
I asked them how they choose which one to buy and got answers such as "must be trading at less than 10$ a share" and "this one has a cool name" and "this company has some technology that extracts stuff like THC"

That's some sophisticated stock picking, right there.

The one and only time I've been roped into a work fantasy sport thing, I picked all the players based on how cute they were. One day, there was a discussion about methods for picking players. Bunch of elaborate spreadsheets, detailed research, etc. Then there's me (middle of the league) and one other woman, who was #1 or 2 in the league. How'd we pick? Cuteness/attractiveness. For baseball, she had better taste than me. Everyone else who put all this time and effort in just groaned.

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20954 on: September 25, 2018, 01:58:41 PM »
I asked them how they choose which one to buy and got answers such as "must be trading at less than 10$ a share" and "this one has a cool name" and "this company has some technology that extracts stuff like THC"

That's some sophisticated stock picking, right there.

The one and only time I've been roped into a work fantasy sport thing, I picked all the players based on how cute they were. One day, there was a discussion about methods for picking players. Bunch of elaborate spreadsheets, detailed research, etc. Then there's me (middle of the league) and one other woman, who was #1 or 2 in the league. How'd we pick? Cuteness/attractiveness. For baseball, she had better taste than me. Everyone else who put all this time and effort in just groaned.

To be fair, a friend trying to get me into hockey made a powerpoint presentation of Crosby and Towes's tushes. *shrugs* It worked. A+ asses. And hockey, in the end, is super fun, especially in person, and WNHL tickets are affordable.

Dave1442397

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20955 on: September 25, 2018, 05:37:01 PM »
The one and only time I've been roped into a work fantasy sport thing, I picked all the players based on how cute they were. One day, there was a discussion about methods for picking players. Bunch of elaborate spreadsheets, detailed research, etc. Then there's me (middle of the league) and one other woman, who was #1 or 2 in the league. How'd we pick? Cuteness/attractiveness. For baseball, she had better taste than me. Everyone else who put all this time and effort in just groaned.

One of my co-workers got pressured into joining the fantasy football league. He was from Hong Kong, and had only been in the US a few years and knew nothing about football. Boy, were they pissed when he won over $1,000 by picking teams based on their uniform colors every week :)

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20956 on: September 25, 2018, 05:50:18 PM »
I was going through my usual routine, gassing up the truck to get from one work location to another, and heard this conversation that made me think nothing other than "OH SHIT" for the next five minutes.

Person 1 - Oh yea, the government has been looking at all my accounts now.

Person 2 - Why do they need to know what you have in your account?

Person 1 - Well I got my social security disability payout and they said it was only supposed to be for medical expenses, so I went ahead and bought a handicap accessible house. My lawyer said it wasn't supposed to be used for that, but there's nothin' they can do about it now because I spent it all and its gone! Right?

this is terrifying, this is like a "The Office" moment, when Michael Scott does this terrible naive financial choices

“I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!!!”

AMandM

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20957 on: September 25, 2018, 06:12:32 PM »
The one and only time I've been roped into a work fantasy sport thing, I picked all the players based on how cute they were. One day, there was a discussion about methods for picking players. Bunch of elaborate spreadsheets, detailed research, etc. Then there's me (middle of the league) and one other woman, who was #1 or 2 in the league. How'd we pick? Cuteness/attractiveness. For baseball, she had better taste than me. Everyone else who put all this time and effort in just groaned.

One of my co-workers got pressured into joining the fantasy football league. He was from Hong Kong, and had only been in the US a few years and knew nothing about football. Boy, were they pissed when he won over $1,000 by picking teams based on their uniform colors every week :)

In our extended-family football pool, I pick the teams that I want to win, my niece picks by cuteness of mascot, and my son-in-law picks by which mascot would prevail in a fight. We're not the bottom of the table.

barbaz

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20958 on: September 26, 2018, 01:01:04 AM »
I asked them how they choose which one to buy and got answers such as "must be trading at less than 10$ a share" and "this one has a cool name" and "this company has some technology that extracts stuff like THC"

That's some sophisticated stock picking, right there.
This seems to be a popular strategy...

https://www.businessinsider.de/long-blockchain-company-iced-tea-sec-stock-2018-8?r=US&IR=T

Quote
When this ice tea company stuck the word 'blockchain' in its name, its stock skyrocketed by nearly 500%.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20959 on: September 26, 2018, 01:38:27 AM »
I asked them how they choose which one to buy and got answers such as "must be trading at less than 10$ a share" and "this one has a cool name" and "this company has some technology that extracts stuff like THC"

That's some sophisticated stock picking, right there.
This seems to be a popular strategy...

https://www.businessinsider.de/long-blockchain-company-iced-tea-sec-stock-2018-8?r=US&IR=T

Quote
When this ice tea company stuck the word 'blockchain' in its name, its stock skyrocketed by nearly 500%.

Pretty sound strategy .  My post count has doubled since I added the blockchain

BuffaloStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20960 on: September 26, 2018, 01:54:15 PM »
I appreciate the dedication, dragincar...

My company offers a very nice "stock purchasing plan", where employees who buy stock get a pretty nice "match" (the company buys stock in employees name). I overheard 2 co-workers talking about it today, and learned that both of them use the stock purchase plan as a "savings account like", and sell almost all of their stock frequently after they/the company purchases it. When I asked about the tax implications, one of them said he "hadn't even thought about it yet"...

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20961 on: September 26, 2018, 02:10:11 PM »
My husband found out the hard way that you have to wait one year AND one day to sell stock in a similar plan to avoid STCG taxes. Arg!

elliha

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20962 on: September 27, 2018, 08:34:12 AM »
I have been wondering how my very spendy colleague could afford several trips out of the country, designer shoes and handbags and such and thought that maybe her dad was paying. Nope. She appearently just did it the old fashioned way and maxed out all her credit cards. She now has to save on things to afford her credit card bills. I am glad she understands now that she has reached the max of what she can spend but she has already paid for her trip to to "meet the spring in Paris" so I am not sure if she will be learning very much from it. It is also at least her second time in her life reaching the point where she cannot put more on credit cards and still afford to live. She is actually quite nice as a person so I don't wish her ill but I really would like her to wake up and realize that she is the typical example of "champagne spending on a beer budget". Yes, she loves to drink actual champagne too, I guess you are all not very surprised.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20963 on: September 27, 2018, 08:35:17 AM »
Just overheard a co-worker talking about their new lease on a SUV....$600 a month! I'm so far down the rabbit hole of mustachianism that's actually unfathomable to me. I mean that's also just about my half of the mortgage each month simply can't imagine spending that much on a car....

Also realizing I spent much less than that on my bike that's gotten me to and from work successfully for a few years now. Just genuinely shocked if that's a going rate for leasing a vehicle.

And bicycle upgrades are often ~$20 or so depending on your needs or expectations. I used to think the cost of a $1K ebike was astronomical until I considered people spend far more on cell phones (fancy phone plus data contract) or car payments (couple month's worth will buy a cheap ebike). Heck one set of tires for the average SUV can be the same cost as an ebike.

I'm on the second season with my "cheap" ebike. Cheaper than a gym membership, has been alot of fun letting people test ride it, learned a ton while building it and maintaining the bike its attached to, etc. Has been fun seeing people do the quick comparison math. Its not just about the value of the saved gasoline. I've only saved $300 worth of gasoline.  The hills around here are no fun.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 08:45:07 AM by Just Joe »

coldestcat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20964 on: September 27, 2018, 10:48:57 AM »
What kind of eBike do you have? Any recommendations? I think there was a thread about them but I dont remember which section it was in. I have an electric car so that already gets rid of the gas problem but the 20 minutes drive to work in a bit of traffic would only take 30 minutes on a bike (less on an eBike im assuming), so im interested in picking one up to reduce wear and tear on car + not be sitting in traffic.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20965 on: September 27, 2018, 02:47:55 PM »
I have the most experience with this one: "Lunacycle (factory: Bafang) BBSHD middrive 48V 14AH kit" You supply the bike and install the kit yourself. I'm riding a former mtn bike I already owned converted to more of a commuter/utility bike with smooth tires, fenders and a rack with panniers. 35 miles (PAS) or 35 mph (throttle) but not both. A smallish person ought to get more speed and range easily.

I also have about 50 miles on a "Jueshuai 48V 500W electric bike with s900 LCD display mountain ebike". 25 mph (throttle) or 40 miles (PAS level 1). Alibaba and Aliexpress sells them straight from the factory. Good bike. Hub motor drive. Plenty of power for an average sized person even in the hills. Parts are very easy to source all over the web if anything ever needed repair. Some parts like the brakes are easily found Tektro disc brakes (replacement pads are very common). Frame has tabs all over for fenders and racks. Not really a mtn bike in my opinion. More of a general purpose bike. Upgrade the handlebars to something more swept back for ~$30 from any bicycle catalog. Origin8 has a nice handlebar for this.

Amazon sells Ancheer and Nakto 36V / 250W bikes at prices around $650 or so. Look at Stark brand. These are slower but probably perfectly good for people in the flatlands although there are YouTube videos by a guy living in Las Vegas who hits the trails on his Ancheer mtn bike (dirt roads with some rock) and it does fine. I have no experience with these brands personally but I wanted to point out the more economical brands I've seen.

Everything was 25% cheaper until recently when Trump's team applied tariffs to all sorts of imports. The domestic ebike industry pointed out that the tariffs just make things more expensive for us consumers. No factories are likely to be built to manufacture bicycle things in the USA just b/c of the tariffs.

Anyhow - these bikes are great things for people who live in hilly places. I ride for fun, commute and do errands with mine.

There are many websites to read: ElectricBikeReview, Endless-Sphere, ElectricBike.com - and many others. They taught me that some bikes cost $15K or more. Wow.

Shivan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20966 on: October 02, 2018, 09:21:40 AM »
It's a shame that coworkers can berate me for bicycling without a helmet, but it's not socially acceptable for me to say "At least I don't take a CAR to work EVERY DAY like a CLOWN who's KILLING yourself from lack of exercise, not to mention the effect on your finances and the environment!"

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20967 on: October 02, 2018, 09:33:30 AM »
It's a shame that coworkers can berate me for bicycling without a helmet, but it's not socially acceptable for me to say "At least I don't take a CAR to work EVERY DAY like a CLOWN who's KILLING yourself from lack of exercise, not to mention the effect on your finances and the environment!"

Still stupid to not wear a helmet.  I hope one of those clowns never accidentally hits you. My husband's head is thankfully not splattered all over an intersection near our house due to a helmet.


Mesmoiselle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20968 on: October 02, 2018, 09:54:03 AM »
Here to add to the pile about helmets! Husband hit last December from behind. Vehicle going less than 35 mph. One broken leg, some internal bleeding that did not end up needing surgical intervention,  road rash, and multiple facial lacerations. The helmet was smashed in. That could have been my husband's skull.

AMandM

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20969 on: October 02, 2018, 12:45:19 PM »
It's a shame that coworkers can berate me for bicycling without a helmet, but it's not socially acceptable for me to say "At least I don't take a CAR to work EVERY DAY like a CLOWN who's KILLING yourself from lack of exercise, not to mention the effect on your finances and the environment!"

One stupid choice being socially acceptable doesn't make a different stupid choice smart.

I have a friend who once rode without a helmet--she figured she didn't need it, she was just going a short distance slowly at the beach. She was hit by a car and spent months in rehab, unable to go to work, unable to drive a car or a bike, unable to read or watch tv or do anything visual. Now she's like the prophet Jeremiah about wearing helmets!

honeybbq

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20970 on: October 02, 2018, 12:53:21 PM »
It's a shame that coworkers can berate me for bicycling without a helmet, but it's not socially acceptable for me to say "At least I don't take a CAR to work EVERY DAY like a CLOWN who's KILLING yourself from lack of exercise, not to mention the effect on your finances and the environment!"

Still stupid to not wear a helmet.  I hope one of those clowns never accidentally hits you. My husband's head is thankfully not splattered all over an intersection near our house due to a helmet.

+1 Very very stupid.

Dabnasty

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20971 on: October 02, 2018, 01:25:42 PM »
Please stop calling people stupid without evidence to back it up. We have several anecdotes presented here that tell us nothing about the injury mitigation potential of helmets. Here's some actual studies...

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1012.html

that still fall short in giving us any certainty on whether helmets are a net life saver or injury reducer. I'm sure they've saved lives in some cases but the data suggest they've taken them in others.

My opinion is that you are probably better off wearing a helmet in most scenarios but it is not a forgone conclusion.

If you'd like to discuss bicycle safety further, I'm sure there's a thread out there for you :) No need to proselytize and insult here.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 02:06:10 PM by Dabnasty »

eljefe-speaks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20972 on: October 02, 2018, 01:43:06 PM »
I asked them how they choose which one to buy and got answers such as "must be trading at less than 10$ a share" and "this one has a cool name" and "this company has some technology that extracts stuff like THC"

That's some sophisticated stock picking, right there.

The one and only time I've been roped into a work fantasy sport thing, I picked all the players based on how cute they were. One day, there was a discussion about methods for picking players. Bunch of elaborate spreadsheets, detailed research, etc. Then there's me (middle of the league) and one other woman, who was #1 or 2 in the league. How'd we pick? Cuteness/attractiveness. For baseball, she had better taste than me. Everyone else who put all this time and effort in just groaned.

Perhaps the same genes that make a guy cute also make him stronger, taller, etc., and generally more athletic. The strategy might not be that bad.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20973 on: October 02, 2018, 01:47:56 PM »
Please stop calling people stupid without evidence to back it up. We have several anecdotes presented here that tell us nothing about the injury mitigation potential of helmets. Here's some actual studies...

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1012.html

that still fall short in giving us any certainty on whether helmets are a net life saver or injury reducer. I'm sure they've saved lives in some cases but the data suggest they've taken them in others.

My opinion is that you are probably better off wearing a helmet in most scenarios but it is not a forgone conclusion.

If you'd like to discuss bicycle safety further, I'm sure there's a thread out there for you :) No need to proselytize and insult here.

Many of the accidents cited are at speeds greater than 50 MPH. 
I think nearly every example in this thread was under 40.  Do you have data that shows helmet use is of no use in those cases?

Dabnasty

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20974 on: October 02, 2018, 02:30:42 PM »
Please stop calling people stupid without evidence to back it up. We have several anecdotes presented here that tell us nothing about the injury mitigation potential of helmets. Here's some actual studies...

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1012.html

that still fall short in giving us any certainty on whether helmets are a net life saver or injury reducer. I'm sure they've saved lives in some cases but the data suggest they've taken them in others.

My opinion is that you are probably better off wearing a helmet in most scenarios but it is not a forgone conclusion.

If you'd like to discuss bicycle safety further, I'm sure there's a thread out there for you :) No need to proselytize and insult here.

Many of the accidents cited are at speeds greater than 50 MPH. 
I think nearly every example in this thread was under 40.  Do you have data that shows helmet use is of no use in those cases?

No, but that wasn't my point. My point was that empirical evidence does not support the notion that bicycle helmets make you so much safer that not wearing one is a stupid decision. In fact based on most of the studies I've read, helmets do in fact provide some additional protection when one is involved in an accident, that website seems fairly biased but provides a good compilation of studies. But what if wearing a helmet increases your odds of being in an accident in the first place?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-helmets-attract-cars-to-cyclists/

Also, I don't see where you're getting the >50 mph figure. The "Whole Poulation Data" section doesn't take speed into account at all. The North Wales incident in 2006 involved a car traveling at around 50mph, is that what you're referring to?




I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20975 on: October 02, 2018, 02:58:34 PM »
Please stop calling people stupid without evidence to back it up. We have several anecdotes presented here that tell us nothing about the injury mitigation potential of helmets. Here's some actual studies...

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1012.html

that still fall short in giving us any certainty on whether helmets are a net life saver or injury reducer. I'm sure they've saved lives in some cases but the data suggest they've taken them in others.

My opinion is that you are probably better off wearing a helmet in most scenarios but it is not a forgone conclusion.

If you'd like to discuss bicycle safety further, I'm sure there's a thread out there for you :) No need to proselytize and insult here.

Many of the accidents cited are at speeds greater than 50 MPH. 
I think nearly every example in this thread was under 40.  Do you have data that shows helmet use is of no use in those cases?

No, but that wasn't my point. My point was that empirical evidence does not support the notion that bicycle helmets make you so much safer that not wearing one is a stupid decision. In fact based on most of the studies I've read, helmets do in fact provide some additional protection when one is involved in an accident, that website seems fairly biased but provides a good compilation of studies. But what if wearing a helmet increases your odds of being in an accident in the first place?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-helmets-attract-cars-to-cyclists/

Also, I don't see where you're getting the >50 mph figure. The "Whole Poulation Data" section doesn't take speed into account at all. The North Wales incident in 2006 involved a car traveling at around 50mph, is that what you're referring to?

I skimmed it, but it seemed there were multiple references to helmets not helping at high speeds.  I'm going to agree with that. If you get hit while someone is barreling you down at highway speeds, you're fucked.

marty998

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20976 on: October 02, 2018, 03:29:33 PM »
The one and only time I've been roped into a work fantasy sport thing, I picked all the players based on how cute they were. One day, there was a discussion about methods for picking players. Bunch of elaborate spreadsheets, detailed research, etc. Then there's me (middle of the league) and one other woman, who was #1 or 2 in the league. How'd we pick? Cuteness/attractiveness. For baseball, she had better taste than me. Everyone else who put all this time and effort in just groaned.

One of my co-workers got pressured into joining the fantasy football league. He was from Hong Kong, and had only been in the US a few years and knew nothing about football. Boy, were they pissed when he won over $1,000 by picking teams based on their uniform colors every week :)

In our extended-family football pool, I pick the teams that I want to win, my niece picks by cuteness of mascot, and my son-in-law picks by which mascot would prevail in a fight. We're not the bottom of the table.

My cousin did this once - she was 6 and she won her school's tipping comp (900 kids aged 5-12). A Shark eats a Rooster, a Bronco stomps on a Bulldog.

A Storm simply destroys everything so she just kept tipping Melbourne. Happy coincidence that the Melbourne Storm won the trophy that year...

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20977 on: October 02, 2018, 08:54:27 PM »
empirical evidence does not support the notion that bicycle helmets make you so much safer that not wearing one is a stupid decision.
Obviously there is some benefit. But while individuals consider individual risk, societies must consider the public good. And if you actually mandate helmets, then cycling drops in frequency.

Given that cars produce pollution, cost a lot of money, and that well over half the population is obese or overweight, doing things which encourage people to move their bodies rather than press a pedal seems like an overall benefit. By mandating helmets, we reduce the number of head injuries, but increase the number of people with type II diabetes, hip replacements, heart disease and so on. Being active carries risks, but so does being inactive.

If we consider just head injury, then there is actually a strong argument for mandating helmets in cars. But interestingly, nobody is calling for that. It would be inconvenient, and we can only inconvenience pedestrians and cyclists, not drivers.

Future generations will be curious about our worship of cars.

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20978 on: October 02, 2018, 09:51:06 PM »
empirical evidence does not support the notion that bicycle helmets make you so much safer that not wearing one is a stupid decision.
Obviously there is some benefit. But while individuals consider individual risk, societies must consider the public good. And if you actually mandate helmets, then cycling drops in frequency.

In my country biking is easy with bike paths and drivers that actually look out for bikes. Nevertheless, I agree with your point on the use of bike helmets. The use of helmets is widespread  (and you
are actually belittled if you don't wear one) among racers though not for general traffic. This boils down to basic attitude and general knowledge, it took about 15 years for moped helmets to become totally accepted and even there you still see some idiots riding without...

Unfortunately, I grew up biking without a helmet, never gave it much thought and currently recovering from an accident (with probable brain injury as a result). Wearing a helmet would have likely reduced the damage somewhat and thus some critical thinking up front might have reduced the resulting damage enough for me...

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20979 on: October 03, 2018, 07:05:38 AM »
You bring up an important point, Alfred: the prevalence of cyclists affects their safety in dealing with drivers. If there is one cyclist on the road, he is an annoying obstacle and we should beep at, shout at, and drive near him to put him in his place, if there are 100, they're just part of traffic and we exercise due care.


Thus, anything that reduces the number of cyclists increases the risks to each individual cyclist, and anything that increases the number of cyclists decreases the risks to each individual cyclist.


So then we must ask of each policy, will it be likely to increase or decrease the number of cyclists? And with that in mind, listening to proposed laws lets us gauge the true intent of the one proposing them; for example, in Australia occasionally someone will suggest that bicycles should be registered like cars. What is the true intent here?


Keep driving, suckers! Keep burning that fuel, bringing excise tax to the government and warming the world! Burn baby burn!

Hirondelle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20980 on: October 03, 2018, 07:17:42 AM »
Kyle; it's not just the number of cyclists. If there's just a dedicated biking lane that does not interfere with the car lane, it already reduces the chance of an accident A LOT because bikes and cars aren't sharing the same space anymore. I find it always a bit odd how cars are so worshipped that the people doing the 'good' thing (biking = better for health, environment, cheaper and so on - think MMM bike rant here) have to adjust by risking their lives on busy roads without bike lanes and wearing helments and reflective wear to protect themselves.

I've seen people on these forums say they drive their kids to school cause the 1 mile walk is on a busy road. What kind of weird world is that? What idiot ever decided that a 1 mile road from a family neighbourhood to a school doesn't need sidewalks and bike lanes?!

OtherJen

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20981 on: October 03, 2018, 07:25:14 AM »
Kyle; it's not just the number of cyclists. If there's just a dedicated biking lane that does not interfere with the car lane, it already reduces the chance of an accident A LOT because bikes and cars aren't sharing the same space anymore. I find it always a bit odd how cars are so worshipped that the people doing the 'good' thing (biking = better for health, environment, cheaper and so on - think MMM bike rant here) have to adjust by risking their lives on busy roads without bike lanes and wearing helments and reflective wear to protect themselves.

I've seen people on these forums say they drive their kids to school cause the 1 mile walk is on a busy road. What kind of weird world is that? What idiot ever decided that a 1 mile road from a family neighbourhood to a school doesn't need sidewalks and bike lanes?!

Welcome to modern American suburban planning. I live in an older suburb with quiet neighborhood streets in a grid pattern and sidewalks everywhere, so I regularly see kids of all ages walking or biking to school. But the newer suburbs tend to comprise oddly designed subdivisions with only one entrance/exit from a busy road and no sidewalks or bike lanes anywhere. I do not understand and can not explain the appeal.

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20982 on: October 03, 2018, 08:13:11 AM »
Welcome to modern American suburban planning. I live in an older suburb with quiet neighborhood streets in a grid pattern and sidewalks everywhere, so I regularly see kids of all ages walking or biking to school. But the newer suburbs tend to comprise oddly designed subdivisions with only one entrance/exit from a busy road and no sidewalks or bike lanes anywhere. I do not understand and can not explain the appeal.

EXACTLY! I grew up in a variety of neighborhoods built in the 80s and 90s: windy roads, cul-de-sacs, 2-3 miles from anything but residential. Most didn't have sidewalks because you didn't "need" them; there was nowhere to go.

But my cousins lived in a 60s/70s neighborhood: on a grid, corner shops, grocery stores, sidewalks. As a kid, that was heaven. We could go down to the convenience store or the grocery store starting around age 7. There were always kids outside on the sidewalks, so it was easy to meet up and play with whoever was out. Trick-or-treating there was so much better than my neighborhoods.

My cousins' neighborhood played a significant role in wanting to live in a walkable area, and my house was built in 1919. It's all a grid, sidewalks everywhere, and an alley. My kids are pretty young (4 and 6) but they spent most of the summer running around our block, having all sorts of fun with their friends without ever crossing a street. When they get a little older, they'll be able to go to the nearby bakery, convenience stores, grocery stores and drug store with a soda fountain.

I think the original appeal of the 80s/90s suburb was safety. Young parents were faced with the "crime wave" and wanted to get their kids "off the streets". And the parents weren't as impacted by the isolation as much as the kids were. So now you have a lot of kids who grew up in that situation looking to give their kids something different, so those older neighborhoods are more in-demand.

dcheesi

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20983 on: October 03, 2018, 08:58:16 AM »
Welcome to modern American suburban planning. I live in an older suburb with quiet neighborhood streets in a grid pattern and sidewalks everywhere, so I regularly see kids of all ages walking or biking to school. But the newer suburbs tend to comprise oddly designed subdivisions with only one entrance/exit from a busy road and no sidewalks or bike lanes anywhere. I do not understand and can not explain the appeal.

EXACTLY! I grew up in a variety of neighborhoods built in the 80s and 90s: windy roads, cul-de-sacs, 2-3 miles from anything but residential. Most didn't have sidewalks because you didn't "need" them; there was nowhere to go.

But my cousins lived in a 60s/70s neighborhood: on a grid, corner shops, grocery stores, sidewalks. As a kid, that was heaven. We could go down to the convenience store or the grocery store starting around age 7. There were always kids outside on the sidewalks, so it was easy to meet up and play with whoever was out. Trick-or-treating there was so much better than my neighborhoods.

My cousins' neighborhood played a significant role in wanting to live in a walkable area, and my house was built in 1919. It's all a grid, sidewalks everywhere, and an alley. My kids are pretty young (4 and 6) but they spent most of the summer running around our block, having all sorts of fun with their friends without ever crossing a street. When they get a little older, they'll be able to go to the nearby bakery, convenience stores, grocery stores and drug store with a soda fountain.

I think the original appeal of the 80s/90s suburb was safety. Young parents were faced with the "crime wave" and wanted to get their kids "off the streets". And the parents weren't as impacted by the isolation as much as the kids were. So now you have a lot of kids who grew up in that situation looking to give their kids something different, so those older neighborhoods are more in-demand.
There was also a belief that cul-de-sacs and the lack of through-roads would make these neighborhoods quieter and safer. No through-traffic = less traffic overall, and the cul-de-sac itself would provide a nice safe spot to play street-hockey or whatever.

Turns out that the safety aspect, at least, was highly overrated. Kids in the cul-de-sacs develop a false sense of security leading to inattentive and unsafe behaviors. And the people who live on the feeder roads experience more traffic and more noise, leading to a high number of accidents there. Overall, "modern" subdivisions are no safer, and far less convenient, than the older housing grids.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20984 on: October 03, 2018, 12:14:47 PM »
Welcome to modern American suburban planning. I live in an older suburb with quiet neighborhood streets in a grid pattern and sidewalks everywhere, so I regularly see kids of all ages walking or biking to school. But the newer suburbs tend to comprise oddly designed subdivisions with only one entrance/exit from a busy road and no sidewalks or bike lanes anywhere. I do not understand and can not explain the appeal.

EXACTLY! I grew up in a variety of neighborhoods built in the 80s and 90s: windy roads, cul-de-sacs, 2-3 miles from anything but residential. Most didn't have sidewalks because you didn't "need" them; there was nowhere to go.

But my cousins lived in a 60s/70s neighborhood: on a grid, corner shops, grocery stores, sidewalks. As a kid, that was heaven. We could go down to the convenience store or the grocery store starting around age 7. There were always kids outside on the sidewalks, so it was easy to meet up and play with whoever was out. Trick-or-treating there was so much better than my neighborhoods.


I live in an older neighbourhood in the inner city and I think this is a great place to raise kids (although we don't have any) but road safety would be an issue to me. I'm also in the Netherlands, the most bike friendly country in the world, but the innercity with its narrow streets is not designed for 21st century traffic. The streets are just too narrow for the buses and the trucks that need to go through them now. I feel unsafe quite often. I would probably have my kids wear helmets.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20985 on: October 03, 2018, 01:04:18 PM »
empirical evidence does not support the notion that bicycle helmets make you so much safer that not wearing one is a stupid decision.
Obviously there is some benefit. But while individuals consider individual risk, societies must consider the public good. And if you actually mandate helmets, then cycling drops in frequency.

Given that cars produce pollution, cost a lot of money, and that well over half the population is obese or overweight, doing things which encourage people to move their bodies rather than press a pedal seems like an overall benefit. By mandating helmets, we reduce the number of head injuries, but increase the number of people with type II diabetes, hip replacements, heart disease and so on. Being active carries risks, but so does being inactive.

If we consider just head injury, then there is actually a strong argument for mandating helmets in cars. But interestingly, nobody is calling for that. It would be inconvenient, and we can only inconvenience pedestrians and cyclists, not drivers.

Future generations will be curious about our worship of cars.
In America it's all about insurance actuaries: risk vs. benefit vs cost.  Well and a dash of political correctness.  For all "the children, but the children must be protected" mantra, where are the seat belts in school buses for the passengers?  They don't exist because the insurance folks used statistics and actuary tables to determine there was insufficient risk of having to pay a claim, unlike individual vehicles where the claims were more frequent and costly when the seat belt was not worn.  So they lobbied Congress in the name of safety to get them required, when it was really about the money.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20986 on: October 04, 2018, 12:47:53 PM »
And don't forget that neighborhoods built without streetlights and sidewalks are alot cheaper than the "deluxe package" with those items.

Around here I was told the average property developer is/was responsible for all these things initially and then the city or county would take over the maintenance if it was constructed to code. I guess the average developer here wants to build on the cheap if buyers aren't demanding sidewalks.

Nobody walks, nobody bikes - we are all supposed to load up the family hauler and go to the mall and then out to eat. -eye roller-

OliveFI

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20987 on: October 04, 2018, 02:55:13 PM »
My co-worker told me he spends $4k a month on food. For him and his wife. He also said they spend every $ they make  - I know for a fact they make at least $350k combined. He wants to buy a house and is looking in a very expensive town. At lunch a bunch of us had a casual conversation about money and he pretty much said his spending can't change and that "life gets expensive." Like, no you can't avoid your student loan payments. But you don't NEED to spend $4k a month for 2 people.

He told me he ordered Indian last night and it was "frugal" at $30 total. I had the same Indian dish last night for around $2.5 a serving - the recipe made 4 servings total. He still doesn't think his spending can change. 

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20988 on: October 04, 2018, 03:15:27 PM »
My co-worker told me he spends $4k a month on food. For him and his wife. He also said they spend every $ they make  - I know for a fact they make at least $350k combined. He wants to buy a house and is looking in a very expensive town. At lunch a bunch of us had a casual conversation about money and he pretty much said his spending can't change and that "life gets expensive." Like, no you can't avoid your student loan payments. But you don't NEED to spend $4k a month for 2 people.

He told me he ordered Indian last night and it was "frugal" at $30 total. I had the same Indian dish last night for around $2.5 a serving - the recipe made 4 servings total. He still doesn't think his spending can change.
Holy shit.  Some people really live on a different planet.  My household spends <$4k a month TOTAL, on everything... maybe even including GF's business expenses...

Megma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20989 on: October 05, 2018, 12:07:06 PM »
My co-worker told me he spends $4k a month on food. For him and his wife. He also said they spend every $ they make  - I know for a fact they make at least $350k combined. He wants to buy a house and is looking in a very expensive town. At lunch a bunch of us had a casual conversation about money and he pretty much said his spending can't change and that "life gets expensive." Like, no you can't avoid your student loan payments. But you don't NEED to spend $4k a month for 2 people.

He told me he ordered Indian last night and it was "frugal" at $30 total. I had the same Indian dish last night for around $2.5 a serving - the recipe made 4 servings total. He still doesn't think his spending can change.
Holy shit.  Some people really live on a different planet.  My household spends <$4k a month TOTAL, on everything... maybe even including GF's business expenses...

Uh same. Less most months and that includes two mortgages.

That more than 5x what my husband and I spend on food (groceries+restaurant spending) and I consider us to have high food spending. I don't even know how we'd spend 4k/month for the two of us.

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20990 on: October 05, 2018, 01:26:42 PM »
It works out to $66/day per person.  So roughly nine Chipotle burritos per day.  I might be able to make it through day one of that, but day two would be tricky.

Still Being

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20991 on: October 05, 2018, 01:40:33 PM »
It works out to $66/day per person.  So roughly nine Chipotle burritos per day.  I might be able to make it through day one of that, but day two would be tricky.

Yeah it would be tricky. Hard to eat fewer than nine and survive ;)

martyconlonontherun

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20992 on: October 05, 2018, 01:46:04 PM »
My co-worker told me he spends $4k a month on food. For him and his wife. He also said they spend every $ they make  - I know for a fact they make at least $350k combined. He wants to buy a house and is looking in a very expensive town. At lunch a bunch of us had a casual conversation about money and he pretty much said his spending can't change and that "life gets expensive." Like, no you can't avoid your student loan payments. But you don't NEED to spend $4k a month for 2 people.

He told me he ordered Indian last night and it was "frugal" at $30 total. I had the same Indian dish last night for around $2.5 a serving - the recipe made 4 servings total. He still doesn't think his spending can change.
Alright you spend 50k on food. Say they have a huge house with a 4K mortgage. Where’s the rest going?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20993 on: October 05, 2018, 01:55:48 PM »
My co-worker told me he spends $4k a month on food. For him and his wife. He also said they spend every $ they make  - I know for a fact they make at least $350k combined. He wants to buy a house and is looking in a very expensive town. At lunch a bunch of us had a casual conversation about money and he pretty much said his spending can't change and that "life gets expensive." Like, no you can't avoid your student loan payments. But you don't NEED to spend $4k a month for 2 people.

He told me he ordered Indian last night and it was "frugal" at $30 total. I had the same Indian dish last night for around $2.5 a serving - the recipe made 4 servings total. He still doesn't think his spending can change.
Alright you spend 50k on food. Say they have a huge house with a 4K mortgage. Where’s the rest going?

It's China; they had better be employing locals. Many expats have a driver instead of jumping through the hoops to get a license, its just rude not to hire a maid... That's...well, peanuts, especially in comparison to their food spend.

hudsoncat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20994 on: October 08, 2018, 09:49:56 AM »
My work provides some Financial Literacy type of programs, last Friday we had one about retirement. I always go because you never know when you might pick up a nugget of good information. Afterwards, a couple co-workers I'm friendly with were discussing. Both were lamenting how impossible saving is... How they try so hard to budget, but something always happens to blow the budget... How they'll never retire... How they have no idea how I save so much (They don't actually know how much we save, but know we save a lot)... you know the song and dance. Fast forward to this morning.

CW1: What did you do this weekend?

Me: Oh we had a pretty relaxing weekend. Some yard work, house work, finished a couple of small maintenance projects knowing that fall and winter are coming.

CW2: That doesn't sound relaxing at all! You should use ABC lawn service....

**Conversation devolves to lawn and cleaning services for a while***

Me (slightly tentatively): You know, those tasks only took a couple hours each morning, then we had the rest of the day free to relax. And we saved so much money doing them ourselves. It's a great way to jump start some of those savings we were talking about on Friday.

CW1 (laughs): But that would cut into my brunch time!

CW2: yeah! Brunch is the best. Did they have the bottomless mimosas yesterday? We were out of town. Hey, have you gotten coffee yet? Let's run down to [local coffee place with Starbucks prices]...

I just shrugged and walked away. 

Still Being

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20995 on: October 08, 2018, 11:28:00 AM »
My work provides some Financial Literacy type of programs, last Friday we had one about retirement. I always go because you never know when you might pick up a nugget of good information. Afterwards, a couple co-workers I'm friendly with were discussing. Both were lamenting how impossible saving is... How they try so hard to budget, but something always happens to blow the budget... How they'll never retire... How they have no idea how I save so much (They don't actually know how much we save, but know we save a lot)... you know the song and dance. Fast forward to this morning.

CW1: What did you do this weekend?

Me: Oh we had a pretty relaxing weekend. Some yard work, house work, finished a couple of small maintenance projects knowing that fall and winter are coming.

CW2: That doesn't sound relaxing at all! You should use ABC lawn service....

**Conversation devolves to lawn and cleaning services for a while***

Me (slightly tentatively): You know, those tasks only took a couple hours each morning, then we had the rest of the day free to relax. And we saved so much money doing them ourselves. It's a great way to jump start some of those savings we were talking about on Friday.

CW1 (laughs): But that would cut into my brunch time!

CW2: yeah! Brunch is the best. Did they have the bottomless mimosas yesterday? We were out of town. Hey, have you gotten coffee yet? Let's run down to [local coffee place with Starbucks prices]...

I just shrugged and walked away.

Nothing better than spending money to free up some time to spend money.

Freedomin5

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20996 on: October 12, 2018, 06:20:17 PM »
One of my colleagues (Ex-Colleague) recently left for a different position at another company. Good for him. My manager was chatting with me today and asked me if I was unhappy at my job. Nope, I'm not (I am slightly underpaid, but I trade flexibility in the ability to choose my projects and dictate my own hours for pay). She then said that Ex-Colleague had told her that his reason for leaving was because he "didn't make enough money to cover living expenses". We make money by charging billable hours. The more billable hours you charge, the more money you make. This guy spent the majority of his time gossiping with coworkers, not calling clients or attending networking events. Even so, since I know his rate, I was able to roughly calculate his billable hours. At a minimum, he makes USD$5000 net income per month. And he is single. If he worked harder to build his skills and reputation as a SME, he could easily make three times that.

My family lives very comfortably on $3K per month, and that includes $1K per month for private school. What kind of luxury marble-entombed apartment does he live in and gold-encrusted caviar does he eat to exceed his entire income? IIRC, he lives in an expensive "hip" part of town, likely in a serviced apartment with a doorman, and I think he eats out all the time at the newest, hippest restaurants in town, of which there are many. He also dresses really well -- to my non-expert eyes, all his clothes appear tailored.

Oh well. I'm hopefully out of here in a few years, while he continues slaving away in order to keep wearing, eating, and living in THE BEST.

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20997 on: October 12, 2018, 07:50:56 PM »
And don't forget that neighborhoods built without streetlights and sidewalks are alot cheaper than the "deluxe package" with those items.

Around here I was told the average property developer is/was responsible for all these things initially and then the city or county would take over the maintenance if it was constructed to code. I guess the average developer here wants to build on the cheap if buyers aren't demanding sidewalks.

Nobody walks, nobody bikes - we are all supposed to load up the family hauler and go to the mall and then out to eat. -eye roller-

Ugh.  There''s some busybody in town advocating that the city put sidewalks in my neighborhood and then assess homeowners.  Her house, of course, wouldn't be affected because she already has a sidewalk.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20998 on: October 12, 2018, 10:21:14 PM »
And don't forget that neighborhoods built without streetlights and sidewalks are alot cheaper than the "deluxe package" with those items.

Around here I was told the average property developer is/was responsible for all these things initially and then the city or county would take over the maintenance if it was constructed to code. I guess the average developer here wants to build on the cheap if buyers aren't demanding sidewalks.

Nobody walks, nobody bikes - we are all supposed to load up the family hauler and go to the mall and then out to eat. -eye roller-

Ugh.  There''s some busybody in town advocating that the city put sidewalks in my neighborhood and then assess homeowners.  Her house, of course, wouldn't be affected because she already has a sidewalk.
Sidewalks should be paid for by the city, for residences, when not part of the a development permit.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20999 on: October 13, 2018, 02:14:50 AM »
And don't forget that neighborhoods built without streetlights and sidewalks are alot cheaper than the "deluxe package" with those items.

Around here I was told the average property developer is/was responsible for all these things initially and then the city or county would take over the maintenance if it was constructed to code. I guess the average developer here wants to build on the cheap if buyers aren't demanding sidewalks.

Nobody walks, nobody bikes - we are all supposed to load up the family hauler and go to the mall and then out to eat. -eye roller-

Ugh.  There''s some busybody in town advocating that the city put sidewalks in my neighborhood and then assess homeowners.  Her house, of course, wouldn't be affected because she already has a sidewalk.
Sidewalks should be paid for by the city, for residences, when not part of the a development permit.
You know, everytime I read about or see the sidewalk-empty streets in the US I go *head exploding*