Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8586114 times)

katstache92

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19250 on: November 21, 2017, 06:35:03 AM »
Co-worker is renegotiating her debt on her company phone at her desk in a reasonably quiet work environment.  This is at least the second time it's happened since I've been here, possibly the third.

CW: I can't pay that much, if I do... I can't eat.

It's stressful sitting near her.

kelvin

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19251 on: November 21, 2017, 09:14:54 AM »
Survival timing depends on a variety of factors though. Check out this mathematical paper exploring options!

https://people.maths.ox.ac.uk/maini/PKM%20publications/384.pdf

Someone up in Canada had way too much fun making this. :-D

I didn't see any accounting for snow, which would affect the mobility of both the zombies and the humans.

I'm going to continue to believe that dead frozen corpses would be unable to re-animate, thus allowing the winter months to give us some sort of reprieve from the virus.

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19252 on: November 21, 2017, 09:31:53 AM »
Clubs don't need reloading, but they also don't get stuck in corpses. This thing might be the best, because it has so many uses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halligan_bar

Survival timing depends on a variety of factors though. Check out this mathematical paper exploring options!

https://people.maths.ox.ac.uk/maini/PKM%20publications/384.pdf
If you like a Halligan you are going to love adrians undead diary!
http://www.thechrisphilbrook.com/projects/adrians-undead-diary/

BiochemicalDJ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19253 on: November 21, 2017, 10:06:35 AM »
I didn't see any accounting for snow, which would affect the mobility of both the zombies and the humans.

I'm going to continue to believe that dead frozen corpses would be unable to re-animate, thus allowing the winter months to give us some sort of reprieve from the virus.

I was reading the paper- I think his timelines are *very* short. Like, within 140 minutes short in some infection scenarios- That's literally how fast he expects it all to go to hell. It's not an optimistic paper (which he points out), but he mentioned he aimed for it to be truthful. Also, his diffusion equations already take into a count a slow, wandering shuffle of I believe 60-90ft/minute or so (was skimming), so snow might not affect as much. Can a tireless person crawl more than a foot and a half per second over snow?

The theoretical effects of cold were explored well in the sourcebooks the pencil and paper RPG "All Flesh Must Be Eaten" explores a rather academic breakdown of the various zombie tropes- virus, radiation, cosmic rays (?) etc., along with a variety of powers that zombies can get. I mean, they pointed it out in Walking Dead- At some point, muscles decay so much; how the hell is the thing still moving? That's where you get into 'Magic' zombie territory, dungeons and dragons and the like- They move 'Just 'cause'. So the frozen argument works well with the 'Viral zombie' and the 'viral, still living, rage human speed zombie', but not well for 'magic' or 'alien goo' or 'robot sci-fi' zombies...

But back to work shenanigans- Watching one of our co-op students go to lunch and spend $8-$12 every day after confessing to me that his total life spending is around $15K per year right now. He then stated that other than restaurants, he essentially spends money on nothing. Arguably, he's chosen his vice.

Which is sort of mustachian, except saving/paying down debt isn't part of the plan.

If you like a Halligan you are going to love adrians undead diary!
http://www.thechrisphilbrook.com/projects/adrians-undead-diary/

I'll check that out, thanks!

Imustacheyouaquestion

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19254 on: November 21, 2017, 01:14:11 PM »
Watching one of our co-op students go to lunch and spend $8-$12 every day after confessing to me that his total life spending is around $15K per year right now. He then stated that other than restaurants, he essentially spends money on nothing. Arguably, he's chosen his vice.


$1250/month on restaurants! Yikes...

BiochemicalDJ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19255 on: November 21, 2017, 01:30:24 PM »
Well, rent and restaurants. Probably on loans for tuition.

Indexer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19256 on: November 21, 2017, 09:30:51 PM »
Survival timing depends on a variety of factors though. Check out this mathematical paper exploring options!

https://people.maths.ox.ac.uk/maini/PKM%20publications/384.pdf

Someone up in Canada had way too much fun making this. :-D


It's a real problem in Canada. A zombie apocalypse would be terrible up there. I agree with Kelvin that we need to account for snow. Not only how it impacts speed, but we also need to account for zombies falling asleep in the snow, remaining hidden, and then biting unsuspecting people walking in the snow.

This is not an issue in the USA. The upside to more guns than people is that when the zombie apocalypse starts it won't reach critical mass. ;-) If there are more armed citizens than unarmed citizens then it should be easy to kill the zombies faster than they spread. The unarmed people will become zombies and the armed people will kill... re-kill... said zombies.  It becomes a real problem if you have a lot more zombies because then each shooter is heavily outnumbered, like in the zombie movies/TV shows, but if there are more shooters than zombies then it's more like slow moving target practice.

Do YOU want to be caught up in the next Zombie apocalypse with a cheap gun??? I THINK NOT! ;)

Actually I would PREFER a cheap gun in a zombie apocalypse. Those fancy nice guns jam up if they don't get cleaned enough, and a zombie apocalypse isn't exactly a clean environment. No, a cheap semi automatic AK-47 will do just fine. Rain, mud, sand, zombie parts, cheap homemade ammo, the occasional zombie skull bashing... it will keep on firing no matter what.


Sorry for all the zombie foam...

JAYSLOL

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19257 on: November 21, 2017, 11:47:23 PM »
Survival timing depends on a variety of factors though. Check out this mathematical paper exploring options!

https://people.maths.ox.ac.uk/maini/PKM%20publications/384.pdf

Someone up in Canada had way too much fun making this. :-D

What else are we supposed to do all winter in our igloos?

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19258 on: November 22, 2017, 09:48:48 AM »
Survival timing depends on a variety of factors though. Check out this mathematical paper exploring options!

https://people.maths.ox.ac.uk/maini/PKM%20publications/384.pdf

Someone up in Canada had way too much fun making this. :-D


It's a real problem in Canada. A zombie apocalypse would be terrible up there. I agree with Kelvin that we need to account for snow. Not only how it impacts speed, but we also need to account for zombies falling asleep in the snow, remaining hidden, and then biting unsuspecting people walking in the snow.

This is not an issue in the USA. The upside to more guns than people is that when the zombie apocalypse starts it won't reach critical mass. ;-) If there are more armed citizens than unarmed citizens then it should be easy to kill the zombies faster than they spread. The unarmed people will become zombies and the armed people will kill... re-kill... said zombies.  It becomes a real problem if you have a lot more zombies because then each shooter is heavily outnumbered, like in the zombie movies/TV shows, but if there are more shooters than zombies then it's more like slow moving target practice.

Do YOU want to be caught up in the next Zombie apocalypse with a cheap gun??? I THINK NOT! ;)

Actually I would PREFER a cheap gun in a zombie apocalypse. Those fancy nice guns jam up if they don't get cleaned enough, and a zombie apocalypse isn't exactly a clean environment. No, a cheap semi automatic AK-47 will do just fine. Rain, mud, sand, zombie parts, cheap homemade ammo, the occasional zombie skull bashing... it will keep on firing no matter what.


Sorry for all the zombie foam...

You're assuming equal distribution of people and guns. There definitely isn't equal distribution of people, and I would suspect the same of guns. You could end up with urbans areas with a large number of people (and thus zombies), but a lower concentration of guns. The reverse in many rural areas.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19259 on: November 22, 2017, 07:04:35 PM »
What's wrong with whole life insurance? I tried to google it, but figured there was a mustachian answer. Is it more expensive than term?

Whole life has an insurance and a savings section. Think about it like getting an insurance policy and a separate savings account. The return on the latter is comparable to a savings account. Which sounds miserable until you discover that if you die, the savings portion vanishes. Entirely.


I think you have this part mis worded..?   The point is that you eventually self fund your own life insurance as that savings part grows.. Which is why some plans have you ending contributions (or paying a very very low rate) despite advanced ages.... and you still have the life insurance plus the value of the savings that you can tap into early in various (often expensive) ways.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19260 on: November 23, 2017, 01:34:42 PM »
Heard in the lunch break today, the colleague who I share a room with sais he doesn`t have any debt. And he owns his appartment. Before this I had the impression he had very little and was earlier in debt because of loosing stock. Maybe I heard wrong rumours. He has his finances in order. He askes us two others at the table whether we had any debt. My other colleague does, because he increased his mortgage to build a garage for +- 30.000 USD. I luckily could avoid to answer, because the debtless colleague had to ask so many questions about increasing the mortgage.
Most colleagues know I live in a very expensive house. I would feel a little embarrassed to let people know it is completely debt free. That would be like telling them what`s in my bank account.

Kitsunegari

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19261 on: November 24, 2017, 07:42:28 AM »
A few years ago there has been a big financial crash in my homecountry, and why discussing it with workmates one said it gave him satisfaction seeing people losing their life savings on it, 'cause they lived like misers to invest, and for what? they should have just enjoyed the money when they had it.

OneStep

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19262 on: November 24, 2017, 08:44:58 AM »
I'm a supervisor in a cubicle farm here in the Midwest. We are production based and often have to work mandatory overtime. During one-on-ones with my team members we not only talk about performance, but how life is in general. Finances are a big topic that comes up. Before I started in this department 4 years ago they were averaging around 8-10 hours a week in overtime, but we have been working on efficiency and it has helped us reduce our overtime that we need on a regular basis. I hear the following on a weekly basis. "I can't afford to pay my bills if I don't work any overtime", which is usually followed up a week later with "We aren't busy can I leave early?" I find an odd since of joy in reminding them of what they said just a week early. They don't get it and the cycle starts all over again. I should start a spreadsheet and track how often each person on my team makes these statements.

craiglepaige

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19263 on: November 24, 2017, 09:27:39 AM »
A few years ago there has been a big financial crash in my homecountry, and why discussing it with workmates one said it gave him satisfaction seeing people losing their life savings on it, 'cause they lived like misers to invest, and for what? they should have just enjoyed the money when they had it.


He sounds peachy.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19264 on: November 24, 2017, 11:09:16 AM »
A few years ago there has been a big financial crash in my homecountry, and why discussing it with workmates one said it gave him satisfaction seeing people losing their life savings on it, 'cause they lived like misers to invest, and for what? they should have just enjoyed the money when they had it.


He sounds peachy.

My boss said just yesterday he couldn't wait for an economic collapse like the dotcom-bubble again, so he would be able to get cheap staff again. He's pretty cheap in general and right now we have an opening for a senior IT person that we just can't fill because in the current job market he's just not offering a high enough wage.

We are in Europe in a country that took very long to recover from the last crash. It's only really for the last 2 years Joe Public has been noticing a steady improvement. We went through a bleak period of austerity. Personally, I spent years in and out of temp jobs, unable to find a steady place to work (and he should know, it's on my CV). Both my partner and I experienced the bankruptcy of the company we worked for. For many people, life is still a lot worse than it was before 2008.

I have tried to tell him before that these things are no laughing matter. When I once told him it was hard to make ends meet when I worked in a parttime minimum wage job, he said he didn't believe me, I must have lived in a mansion back then. I have tried to tell him a few times this is insulting, but I'm not sure how to do it as I'm the junior employee and he's the boss. But I hate how he basically wishes disaster on people just because of his own ignorance.

Hirondelle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19265 on: November 24, 2017, 11:38:39 AM »
A few years ago there has been a big financial crash in my homecountry, and why discussing it with workmates one said it gave him satisfaction seeing people losing their life savings on it, 'cause they lived like misers to invest, and for what? they should have just enjoyed the money when they had it.


He sounds peachy.

My boss said just yesterday he couldn't wait for an economic collapse like the dotcom-bubble again, so he would be able to get cheap staff again. He's pretty cheap in general and right now we have an opening for a senior IT person that we just can't fill because in the current job market he's just not offering a high enough wage.

We are in Europe in a country that took very long to recover from the last crash. It's only really for the last 2 years Joe Public has been noticing a steady improvement. We went through a bleak period of austerity. Personally, I spent years in and out of temp jobs, unable to find a steady place to work (and he should know, it's on my CV). Both my partner and I experienced the bankruptcy of the company we worked for. For many people, life is still a lot worse than it was before 2008.

I have tried to tell him before that these things are no laughing matter. When I once told him it was hard to make ends meet when I worked in a parttime minimum wage job, he said he didn't believe me, I must have lived in a mansion back then. I have tried to tell him a few times this is insulting, but I'm not sure how to do it as I'm the junior employee and he's the boss. But I hate how he basically wishes disaster on people just because of his own ignorance.
That's so rude! I mean, I can kinda get the first thing where he says 'A crash would make it easier to find an employee', just like you can say 'I'm waiting for a stock market crash to buy them on sale'. But it sounds like he doesn't realize that a crash like that hurts/affects many many employees and other people involved?

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19266 on: November 25, 2017, 02:27:20 PM »
My boss said just yesterday he couldn't wait for an economic collapse like the dotcom-bubble again, so he would be able to get cheap staff again. He's pretty cheap in general and right now we have an opening for a senior IT person that we just can't fill because in the current job market he's just not offering a high enough wage.

We are in Europe in a country that took very long to recover from the last crash. It's only really for the last 2 years Joe Public has been noticing a steady improvement. We went through a bleak period of austerity. Personally, I spent years in and out of temp jobs, unable to find a steady place to work (and he should know, it's on my CV). Both my partner and I experienced the bankruptcy of the company we worked for. For many people, life is still a lot worse than it was before 2008.

I have tried to tell him before that these things are no laughing matter. When I once told him it was hard to make ends meet when I worked in a parttime minimum wage job, he said he didn't believe me, I must have lived in a mansion back then. I have tried to tell him a few times this is insulting, but I'm not sure how to do it as I'm the junior employee and he's the boss. But I hate how he basically wishes disaster on people just because of his own ignorance.

This is making a lot of assumptions about the ages of everyone involved, but it's one of my favorite memes, so I wanted to share:

paddedhat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19267 on: November 26, 2017, 06:04:08 AM »
I'm a supervisor in a cubicle farm here in the Midwest. We are production based and often have to work mandatory overtime. During one-on-ones with my team members we not only talk about performance, but how life is in general. Finances are a big topic that comes up. Before I started in this department 4 years ago they were averaging around 8-10 hours a week in overtime, but we have been working on efficiency and it has helped us reduce our overtime that we need on a regular basis. I hear the following on a weekly basis. "I can't afford to pay my bills if I don't work any overtime", which is usually followed up a week later with "We aren't busy can I leave early?" I find an odd since of joy in reminding them of what they said just a week early. They don't get it and the cycle starts all over again. I should start a spreadsheet and track how often each person on my team makes these statements.

In the past, I have had groups of employees, numbering from single digits to fifty or sixty, who I was responsible for physically handing a paycheck to. Due to union rules in the construction trades, it was required that the employee be handed a physical check by the end of the work day, mid-week. Occasionally,  there would be an issue, things like a courier stuck in a traffic accident, and the checks did not arrive on the job site by the end of the day. At that point, the majority of the workforce would walk past me, in my usual spot, on the steps of my office trailer, expecting their check. I would casually say, "your check is stuck behind a truck wreck on the freeway, I have to wait until it gets here, but you do whatever you want". The vast majority would give me some version of, "no worries, I'll see you tomorrow". There was always a few who would throw a fit, and demand that I resolve the issue, STAT!"  Without fail, these were the same clowns who would not show up on a regular basis, or claim that the desperately needed that check, then take a few days off the next week.

Overtime was another entertaining situation. Often, on a large project, deadline panic would set in, and large amounts of overtime would be granted to stay on schedule. As the crisis tapered off, overtime would cease, and the same chucklenuts would be in my office, bitching about how they "need" overtime. Wait, let's review. These are some of the highest paid tradesmen on the continent. There is no expectation of any overtime, ever. It is never mandatory, and never a reliable source of additional income, and YOU can't live without it? Damn, it sucks to be you. My all time favorite was an industrial job where there were huge deadline issues and you could work unlimited overtime, if you wanted it. There was also an agreement that volunteering to drive a big passenger van, from the remote parking lot, to the plant, would pay an additional half hour. I had a guy in my office bitching that he was robbed of his half hour of van driver bonus. He had physically worked 24 hours and wanted the other half hour. I was laughing as I asked him how I could possibly input 24.5 hours into his DAILY timesheet? He was convinced that I was trying to rip him off, yet in one day, he had earned nearly 80% of a normal week of pay.

I can't even express how glad I am that that crap is now in the rear view mirror.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19268 on: November 26, 2017, 10:49:25 AM »
He can be lucky he doesn't life in an socialist country, because here working 24 hours would be illegal - worker protection laws. (And btw any company that lets workers do this should pay a fine for promoting unhealthy and risky workplace behaviour.)

BuffaloStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19269 on: November 27, 2017, 09:33:31 PM »
^I'm not so sure- if I could work "unlimited" overtime and get paid extra for it, I likely would've sucked it up for ~2-3 years, worked 50%+ overtime and significantly reduced my time to FI. Or at least work some OT when I could to boost the savings rate :-D.

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19270 on: November 27, 2017, 11:31:47 PM »
He can be lucky he doesn't life in an socialist country, because here working 24 hours would be illegal - worker protection laws. (And btw any company that lets workers do this should pay a fine for promoting unhealthy and risky workplace behaviour.)
Why is everyone using the term "socialist" for countries who don't promote pure capitalism (not to overcome it, but just because they realized that the market won't fix everything)?

Socialist would mean that the means of production are owned and controlled by the state.

Having laws against working 24 hours is not socialism. Universal health care is not socialism.

It's a derogative term. It's a pet peeve of mine.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19271 on: November 28, 2017, 12:11:44 AM »
He can be lucky he doesn't life in an socialist country, because here working 24 hours would be illegal - worker protection laws. (And btw any company that lets workers do this should pay a fine for promoting unhealthy and risky workplace behaviour.)
Why is everyone using the term "socialist" for countries who don't promote pure capitalism (not to overcome it, but just because they realized that the market won't fix everything)?

Socialist would mean that the means of production are owned and controlled by the state.

Having laws against working 24 hours is not socialism. Universal health care is not socialism.

It's a derogative term. It's a pet peeve of mine.
US political discourse uses a special breed of English. Liberals doesn't refer to people wanting less regulation, socialism is a boogeyman, and Europe is where lazy people live.

gaja

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19272 on: November 28, 2017, 01:07:46 AM »
He can be lucky he doesn't life in an socialist country, because here working 24 hours would be illegal - worker protection laws. (And btw any company that lets workers do this should pay a fine for promoting unhealthy and risky workplace behaviour.)
Why is everyone using the term "socialist" for countries who don't promote pure capitalism (not to overcome it, but just because they realized that the market won't fix everything)?

Socialist would mean that the means of production are owned and controlled by the state.

Having laws against working 24 hours is not socialism. Universal health care is not socialism.

It's a derogative term. It's a pet peeve of mine.
US political discourse uses a special breed of English. Liberals doesn't refer to people wanting less regulation, socialism is a boogeyman, and Europe is where lazy people live.

This is a detour from the main topic, but claiming that socialism is a derogative term is just... weird.

Socialism is an ideal, that values equality above most other things. Communism is one end of that spectrum, social democracies are on the other end. And at some point on the sliding scale, we are starting to approach the social liberals.

As far as I know, both LennStar and I are living in social democracies. I'm quite happy with that, being a socialist at heart. I believe it is best for everyone that the state controls our common natural resources; water (for drinking and electricity production), oil, fish, forests, etc. It doesn't mean that private interests can't make money from these resources, it just means that they can't control them for ever. You are welcome to build a hydropower plant, and run it for a 100 years, but after that the rights to that water goes back to the state, and someone else can have a go. You are welcome to fish, but we tried that unlimited fishing thing earlier, and that knocked out a lot of fish populations, and most major whale species. So now you can get a fishing quota for a limited time. Some more liberal politicians here want to remove the time limit on the quotas, and make it possible for private actors to trade fishing quotas in all areas. I don't think it is fair for the rest of us that a few persons would own the fishing rights forever. Some of our forests are state owned, some are privately owned. But the right to roam act allows everyone the right to enjoy the nature, also on private property.

Universal healthcare and labor laws are not socialism, those are just common (economic) sense.

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19273 on: November 28, 2017, 01:25:18 AM »


He can be lucky he doesn't life in an socialist country, because here working 24 hours would be illegal - worker protection laws. (And btw any company that lets workers do this should pay a fine for promoting unhealthy and risky workplace behaviour.)
Why is everyone using the term "socialist" for countries who don't promote pure capitalism (not to overcome it, but just because they realized that the market won't fix everything)?

Socialist would mean that the means of production are owned and controlled by the state.

Having laws against working 24 hours is not socialism. Universal health care is not socialism.

It's a derogative term. It's a pet peeve of mine.
US political discourse uses a special breed of English. Liberals doesn't refer to people wanting less regulation, socialism is a boogeyman, and Europe is where lazy people live.

This is a detour from the main topic, but claiming that socialism is a derogative term is just... weird.

Socialism is an ideal, that values equality above most other things. Communism is one end of that spectrum, social democracies are on the other end. And at some point on the sliding scale, we are starting to approach the social liberals.

As far as I know, both LennStar and I are living in social democracies. I'm quite happy with that, being a socialist at heart. I believe it is best for everyone that the state controls our common natural resources; water (for drinking and electricity production), oil, fish, forests, etc. It doesn't mean that private interests can't make money from these resources, it just means that they can't control them for ever. You are welcome to build a hydropower plant, and run it for a 100 years, but after that the rights to that water goes back to the state, and someone else can have a go. You are welcome to fish, but we tried that unlimited fishing thing earlier, and that knocked out a lot of fish populations, and most major whale species. So now you can get a fishing quota for a limited time. Some more liberal politicians here want to remove the time limit on the quotas, and make it possible for private actors to trade fishing quotas in all areas. I don't think it is fair for the rest of us that a few persons would own the fishing rights forever. Some of our forests are state owned, some are privately owned. But the right to roam act allows everyone the right to enjoy the nature, also on private property.

Universal healthcare and labor laws are not socialism, those are just common (economic) sense.

I completely agree with you (except for being a socialist at heart). I live in an social democracy as well.
But I am pretty sure that when most people say "that's socialist/socialism", they don't want to say "that's an idea, that values equality above most other things", probably more "that's socialism and we know how that went... Go home to Russia you crazy communist, we have won, deal with it!"

So calling things or social democracies "socialism" is not helpful and wrong, because these things might be on a spectrum, but universal health care or fair labor laws don't lead to socialism and social democracy is not a proto-socialist democracy.

Enough foam, I am sorry.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19274 on: November 28, 2017, 01:30:02 AM »
He can be lucky he doesn't life in an socialist country, because here working 24 hours would be illegal - worker protection laws. (And btw any company that lets workers do this should pay a fine for promoting unhealthy and risky workplace behaviour.)
Why is everyone using the term "socialist" for countries who don't promote pure capitalism (not to overcome it, but just because they realized that the market won't fix everything)?

Socialist would mean that the means of production are owned and controlled by the state.

Having laws against working 24 hours is not socialism. Universal health care is not socialism.

It's a derogative term. It's a pet peeve of mine.

I often use that term mockingly, especially BECAUSE a lot of "free market enthusiasts" call everything socialism they don't like (like a christian calling it devilllish). That includes universal health care, laws that prevents companies to screw you becaue they can afford it, or right now Net Neutrality.
Somehow the Free Market Fans think that NN is a bad thing. Probably nearly as bad as the English law that forbid children unter 10 to work longer then 10 hours a day in wool factories (because so many died there), which was heavily protested as a hideous interference of the free market.

kayvent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19275 on: November 28, 2017, 04:02:59 AM »
He can be lucky he doesn't life in an socialist country, because here working 24 hours would be illegal - worker protection laws. (And btw any company that lets workers do this should pay a fine for promoting unhealthy and risky workplace behaviour.)
Why is everyone using the term "socialist" for countries who don't promote pure capitalism (not to overcome it, but just because they realized that the market won't fix everything)?

Socialist would mean that the means of production are owned and controlled by the state.

Having laws against working 24 hours is not socialism. Universal health care is not socialism.

It's a derogative term. It's a pet peeve of mine.

I often use that term mockingly, especially BECAUSE a lot of "free market enthusiasts" call everything socialism they don't like (like a christian calling it devilllish). That includes universal health care, laws that prevents companies to screw you becaue they can afford it, or right now Net Neutrality.
Somehow the Free Market Fans think that NN is a bad thing. Probably nearly as bad as the English law that forbid children unter 10 to work longer then 10 hours a day in wool factories (because so many died there), which was heavily protested as a hideous interference of the free market.

Net Neutrality is a bad thing. Imagine if Google decided to build a 50000 person office in your town. Imagine they refused to pay for the new roads that had to be built all around it to cover the enhanced load. Imagine they refused to cover the expense the hydro company had to incur to provide power to the place. Imagine they wouldnít listen to the water company instructions (ex. have 50 onsite sewage tanks, only pump sewage into the mainline during late evening and early hours).

Thatís basically what Netflix, Google, and Amazon have done. They want the ISPs to act like a utility, they donít want to treat them like utilities (where they have to pay for any undo burden), and they want to never be treated like a utility (see the whole episode with Google denying domain name registry).

When there are gigantic, multinational corporations that control large segments of the media on one side of an issue and regional companies on another side, donít you find it suspicious that just by chance people are aligning with the former? We (sometimes) notice when big pharma is trying to sway the public in their favour. Perhaps weíll notice big tech soon.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19276 on: November 28, 2017, 06:09:09 AM »
Net Neutrality is a bad thing. Imagine if Google decided to build a 50000 person office in your town. Imagine they refused to pay for the new roads that had to be built all around it to cover the enhanced load. Imagine they refused to cover the expense the hydro company had to incur to provide power to the place. Imagine they wouldnít listen to the water company instructions (ex. have 50 onsite sewage tanks, only pump sewage into the mainline during late evening and early hours).

Thatís basically what Netflix, Google, and Amazon have done. They want the ISPs to act like a utility, they donít want to treat them like utilities (where they have to pay for any undo burden), and they want to never be treated like a utility (see the whole episode with Google denying domain name registry).

ISPs ARE a utility - yours. You pay them after all, to provide YOU with whatever traffic YOU want.
What is on the other side does not has to interest them. In best case the ISP don't even know or can find out.
If "google" builds a big office (aka webpresence) they still have to pay to be connected to the backbone. That does not change without Net Neutrality. Or in gogles case they just build their own backbone I guess.

And the problem here are not the big companies, because a Google can easily pay a few hundred million way robbery fees. Its the small websites that can't do that. For example those that say that ISP X has shitty service. They for sure will have of that ISP slows them down to 64K.

You know, I had this NN thing here back in 2009 and following years. It upsets me that this is still on the table again and again, its like data rentention. Ruled unconstitutional? Then change it just that little bit that it could work.
We are in iteration 4 of that now.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 06:11:00 AM by LennStar »

talltexan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19277 on: November 28, 2017, 07:40:13 AM »
I suspect the rise of Fox News and Conservative talk radio is why the word "socialist" has become such an epithet today in the US.

I am fully aware of just how much farther to the right the US is than you other high-income countries. From my username, you probably think I'm one of the farthest right people in it ;-)

kayvent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19278 on: November 28, 2017, 09:03:23 AM »
Net Neutrality is a bad thing. Imagine if Google decided to build a 50000 person office in your town. Imagine they refused to pay for the new roads that had to be built all around it to cover the enhanced load. Imagine they refused to cover the expense the hydro company had to incur to provide power to the place. Imagine they wouldnít listen to the water company instructions (ex. have 50 onsite sewage tanks, only pump sewage into the mainline during late evening and early hours).

Thatís basically what Netflix, Google, and Amazon have done. They want the ISPs to act like a utility, they donít want to treat them like utilities (where they have to pay for any undo burden), and they want to never be treated like a utility (see the whole episode with Google denying domain name registry).

ISPs ARE a utility - yours. You pay them after all, to provide YOU with whatever traffic YOU want.

What is on the other side does not has to interest them. In best case the ISP don't even know or can find out.
If "google" builds a big office (aka webpresence) they still have to pay to be connected to the backbone. That does not change without Net Neutrality. Or in gogles case they just build their own backbone I guess.

Part of this started because Netflix takes a plurality of internet traffic in the evening. Comcast wanted Netflix to pay to support the load. Netflix didn't want to.

Quote
And the problem here are not the big companies, because a Google can easily pay a few hundred million way robbery fees. Its the small websites that can't do that.

It is the opposite. Netflix, Google, Amazon, and the other big players don't want to pay for their out sized burden. They want their cost to be distributed onto everyone else.

It's like a rich guy that goes to the bar with two friends. His two friends each buy a cheap bud light, he buys two glasses of champagne. When the bill comes around, he says he'll pay half the bill since he had two glasses to their two.

In what other topic of life do you take the big, mega-Corp, multinational company's side thinking they are looking out for the little companies? They're looking out for themselves to the detriment of others.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 09:08:20 AM by kayvent »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19279 on: November 28, 2017, 09:11:50 AM »
For those wishing to discuss Net Neutrality, there's a thread in the Off-topic subforum on the subject.

NoraLenderbee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19280 on: November 28, 2017, 03:50:35 PM »
I suspect the rise of Fox News and Conservative talk radio is why the word "socialist" has become such an epithet today in the US.


"Socialism" has been a bogeyman here for a good 100 years. Remember how the US had to save the world from godless Soviet Communism?

Timodeus

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19281 on: November 29, 2017, 09:25:39 AM »
It's like a rich guy that goes to the bar with two friends. His two friends each buy a cheap bud light, he buys two glasses of champagne. When the bill comes around, he says he'll pay half the bill since he had two glasses to their two.

In what other topic of life do you take the big, mega-Corp, multinational company's side thinking they are looking out for the little companies? They're looking out for themselves to the detriment of others.

Taking away net neutrality allows for the following scenario:

It's like a rich guy that goes to the bar with two friends. The rich guy orders an expensive of champagne which arrives almost immediately and tastes great. His two friends don't have enough money to get the same type of champagne, they order a bud light which takes forever to arrive and frankly sucks. But hey, at least they don't have to pay for part of that champagne right?


sherr

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19282 on: November 29, 2017, 10:01:31 AM »
It's like a rich guy that goes to the bar with two friends. His two friends each buy a cheap bud light, he buys two glasses of champagne. When the bill comes around, he says he'll pay half the bill since he had two glasses to their two.

In what other topic of life do you take the big, mega-Corp, multinational company's side thinking they are looking out for the little companies? They're looking out for themselves to the detriment of others.

Taking away net neutrality allows for the following scenario:

It's like a rich guy that goes to the bar with two friends. The rich guy orders an expensive of champagne which arrives almost immediately and tastes great. His two friends don't have enough money to get the same type of champagne, they order a bud light which takes forever to arrive and frankly sucks. But hey, at least they don't have to pay for part of that champagne right?

But that's not analogous to the situation of the internet. It's more like:

A three friends go to a bar. The bartender is offering a subscription service of two beers per hour for a set price. They all sign up. Two friends only happen to drink one beer per hour, while the third actually drinks both. The bartender complains that that's unfair that he should actually have to live up to the terms of his agreement and wants to limit the two-per-hour drinker to only having bud light available.

ISPs can already charge champaign drinkers more than beer drinkers. It's called different rate plans. What they can't do, and shouldn't be allowed to do, is decide for you what you are allowed to do with your bandwidth that you've paid for.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19283 on: November 29, 2017, 10:41:14 AM »
For those wishing to discuss Net Neutrality, there's a thread in the Off-topic subforum on the subject.
[/size]

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19284 on: November 29, 2017, 12:48:36 PM »
We bought a used car some time ago.

Coworker apparently liked it so they are talking today about buying a new car of a different brand but based on what they liked about our car.

Huh?

And why does it need to be new? They are hard on their cars inside and out. It won't look new within a week.

The logic here is hurting my brain.

Not my circus. Not my circus. Not my circus.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 12:51:04 PM by Just Joe »

Miss Piggy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19285 on: December 01, 2017, 06:55:39 AM »
Not my circus. Not my circus. Not my circus.

I was glad to read this at the end of your post. Your slight concern about the situation had me slightly concerned, and I was thinking "Guess whose problem this isn't? Yours." You beat me to it. :)

BuffaloStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19286 on: December 01, 2017, 10:09:18 AM »
We bought a used car some time ago.

Coworker apparently liked it so they are talking today about buying a new car of a different brand but based on what they liked about our car.

Huh?

And why does it need to be new? They are hard on their cars inside and out. It won't look new within a week.

The logic here is hurting my brain.

Not my circus. Not my circus. Not my circus.

"Well, if your car is old and has those features, then a newer model with the same features must automatically be better!"
-Average consumer sucka clown commuter

trollwithamustache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19287 on: December 01, 2017, 03:56:56 PM »
For those wishing to discuss Net Neutrality, there's a thread in the Off-topic subforum on the subject.
[/size]

But all the millennials at work are talking about right now is Net Neutrality!
:)

shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19288 on: December 01, 2017, 04:52:40 PM »
For those wishing to discuss Net Neutrality, there's a thread in the Off-topic subforum on the subject.
[/size]

But all the millennials at work are talking about right now is Net Neutrality!
:)

But all the millennials at my work, home and in my wider social circle are talking about are other things! :)

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19289 on: December 02, 2017, 02:04:18 PM »
Not my circus. Not my circus. Not my circus.

I was glad to read this at the end of your post. Your slight concern about the situation had me slightly concerned, and I was thinking "Guess whose problem this isn't? Yours." You beat me to it. :)

I work so closely with a small team of people so when a certain coworker does make bad decisions all we get to hear about for weeks or months is the details of their decision or consumer remorse. Thus my selfish concern about this purchase and the possibility that it will sink their family's budget. They make much less money than my family so their choice to emulate anything we do needs to be carefully decided.

The easy solution is to ban certain topics but I'm not in charge of anyone but me. This coworker likes to visit so they start out the day telling me the "news" and then repeat each time another coworker comes into our work area. I make myself scarce if possible to avoid hearing these stories repeat all morning.

Funny thing is I can tell when coworker is mulling a big purchase by the way they open and steer conversations. ;)

Next story from same coworker. Spouse misplaced 2000 dollars recently.

BuffaloStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19290 on: December 02, 2017, 03:20:51 PM »
...
Next story from same coworker. Spouse misplaced 2000 dollars recently.

I understand some people are loose with money... but $2k! That's ridiculous. I hope the spouse used it to buy your CW a very nice holiday gift.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19291 on: December 02, 2017, 05:42:16 PM »
...
Next story from same coworker. Spouse misplaced 2000 dollars recently.

I understand some people are loose with money... but $2k! That's ridiculous. I hope the spouse used it to buy your CW a very nice holiday gift.
Sadly, it *can* happen.  I was secretly saving up cash to get something nice (Lasik) for DW.  It was a very discreet hiding spot.  Discreet enough that when she found the container with cash, she assumed it was trash, and threw it away.  That was a disturbing day for us...

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19292 on: December 03, 2017, 06:50:42 AM »
...
Next story from same coworker. Spouse misplaced 2000 dollars recently.

I understand some people are loose with money... but $2k! That's ridiculous. I hope the spouse used it to buy your CW a very nice holiday gift.
Sadly, it *can* happen.  I was secretly saving up cash to get something nice (Lasik) for DW.  It was a very discreet hiding spot.  Discreet enough that when she found the container with cash, she assumed it was trash, and threw it away.  That was a disturbing day for us...
My girlfriend nearly threw away a grocery bag with 4x $500 VGCs in it that I left in our living room... that was at least 60% on me but it was pretty scary.

With This Herring

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19293 on: December 03, 2017, 07:38:16 PM »
...
Next story from same coworker. Spouse misplaced 2000 dollars recently.

I understand some people are loose with money... but $2k! That's ridiculous. I hope the spouse used it to buy your CW a very nice holiday gift.
Sadly, it *can* happen.  I was secretly saving up cash to get something nice (Lasik) for DW.  It was a very discreet hiding spot.  Discreet enough that when she found the container with cash, she assumed it was trash, and threw it away.  That was a disturbing day for us...
My girlfriend nearly threw away a grocery bag with 4x $500 VGCs in it that I left in our living room... that was at least 60% on me but it was pretty scary.
Ugh, yes.  Years ago, DBF lost most of his paycheck.  Every other time he deposited it (tiny ER didn't offer direct deposit), but this time he cashed it for a wedding gift and for cash on hand for travel to said wedding.  Somewhere on the road it fell out of his pocket.  We never found it.

In more amusing history, my family had a dentist and his wife as friends.  The wife used to get exasperated with her husband because the cash payments he received ended up scattered about their house in his jacket pockets, random bags, etc.  She never knew when she'd find a few thousand dollars in some odd place.

tallen

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19294 on: December 03, 2017, 07:42:38 PM »
I mentioned to a coworker friday that my paychecks are a lot bigger now that I've maxed out my 401k for the year. He replies by saying "Wow, and thought I put a lot in. I thought I put more in than anyone else here." Impressed, and happy to have another big saver at work I asked him how much he puts in. "9%" I'm still dumbfounded that someone only putting 9% into the 401k can think they are the biggest contributor!

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19295 on: December 04, 2017, 12:34:08 AM »
I mentioned to a coworker friday that my paychecks are a lot bigger now that I've maxed out my 401k for the year. He replies by saying "Wow, and thought I put a lot in. I thought I put more in than anyone else here." Impressed, and happy to have another big saver at work I asked him how much he puts in. "9%" I'm still dumbfounded that someone only putting 9% into the 401k can think they are the biggest contributor!

How much do you put in then?

aceyou

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19296 on: December 04, 2017, 03:37:41 AM »
I mentioned to a coworker friday that my paychecks are a lot bigger now that I've maxed out my 401k for the year. He replies by saying "Wow, and thought I put a lot in. I thought I put more in than anyone else here." Impressed, and happy to have another big saver at work I asked him how much he puts in. "9%" I'm still dumbfounded that someone only putting 9% into the 401k can think they are the biggest contributor!

Well, he probably is one of the very biggest contributors:)

Dabnasty

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19297 on: December 04, 2017, 08:42:44 AM »
I mentioned to a coworker friday that my paychecks are a lot bigger now that I've maxed out my 401k for the year. He replies by saying "Wow, and thought I put a lot in. I thought I put more in than anyone else here." Impressed, and happy to have another big saver at work I asked him how much he puts in. "9%" I'm still dumbfounded that someone only putting 9% into the 401k can think they are the biggest contributor!

Well, he probably is one of the very biggest contributors:)

Ya, I just assume most people put in enough for the match or less. For someone who is unaware that there are loopholes to get money out before you retire at 65 I would imagine they aren't interested in contributing much to a 401k.

GnomeErcy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19298 on: December 04, 2017, 09:18:23 AM »
I mentioned to a coworker friday that my paychecks are a lot bigger now that I've maxed out my 401k for the year. He replies by saying "Wow, and thought I put a lot in. I thought I put more in than anyone else here." Impressed, and happy to have another big saver at work I asked him how much he puts in. "9%" I'm still dumbfounded that someone only putting 9% into the 401k can think they are the biggest contributor!

How does your matching work (if you have any)? Are you leaving money on the table by maxing before your final paycheck of the year (if that's the case) or nah?

Also I assume he doesn't make $200k haha. Most people at my old job only did 4% to get the employer match.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #19299 on: December 04, 2017, 11:31:14 AM »
I mentioned to a coworker friday that my paychecks are a lot bigger now that I've maxed out my 401k for the year. He replies by saying "Wow, and thought I put a lot in. I thought I put more in than anyone else here." Impressed, and happy to have another big saver at work I asked him how much he puts in. "9%" I'm still dumbfounded that someone only putting 9% into the 401k can think they are the biggest contributor!

This is a little old, but here's my 401k contribution story.  Between 401k and ESOP, our company contributes 10% of our salary (even if you put nothing in), so it's pretty good.  At the beginning of last year, they switched 401k providers.  If you were already contributing to your 401k, they kept your rate alone, but if you were not, they automatically enrolled you into it at 5%. 

They sent out a pamphlet talking about all this, and I read it, since you know, it's about my money.  Then the first paycheck of the year, I made sure my contribution rate was what it was before, and it was. 

6 weeks later, our department head makes a comment in one of our meetings, because he just figured out where his money was going.  He was auto-enrolled, and no one told him!!  We all should check ours to see if we were auto-enrolled too, and to fix it if it wasn't what we wanted.  Then about half the people in the meeting get upset and go set their percentage back to 0 after the meeting.  They both never read the pamphlet or changed to back to 0%.  I'm guessing some of the rest had read it and already changed it.

I'm guessing 9% is above the median here.