Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8914376 times)

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7400 on: March 18, 2015, 12:07:58 PM »
I also feel like there are hidden fees above and beyond the .66%, but don't know how to prove it. Our company will never ever ever switch plans because a friend of the president/CEO is our adviser. He's making a killing, I'm sure of it, I'm just not sure where.
You don't have to be a trained auditor to read your statements. I'd start there.

Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7401 on: March 18, 2015, 12:21:44 PM »
So, my company just got bought out. There are 35 people in it, the new company has 1500.  Should have more stuff to report!
sweet.

I wish mine would.  This slow painful death is, just, painful

It wasn't a decline buyout. It was a growth buyout. Good things I've confirmed: they have an HSA with matching/kick-backs, the 401k has more options than a Vanguard Target Date at .45% fees. The not so good things: the vesting schedule is a year longer, matching is probably lower because it's something they just added this year.

Pooplips

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7402 on: March 18, 2015, 12:59:57 PM »
Having a discussion with a cw the other day about retirement. He mentioned that it would be impossible for me to retire.

I mentioned that I will be living a moble lifestyle so my cost of living will be minimal and I will in fact be retiring early.

He couldn't understand how anyone could have enough money to retire early and that I would need millions to retire.

It's quite sad because he is 66 and already collects a pension from a previous job and can take ss but dosnt see himself ever retiring.

Then again he did just spend $20k redoing his 3 bathrooms for him and his wife. ???

boarder42

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7403 on: March 18, 2015, 01:59:59 PM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

fantabulous

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7404 on: March 18, 2015, 03:10:00 PM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

If you eat out a lot, you end up using the bathroom a lot and can't wait for a person to finish? And the third is in case one of the bathrooms gets wrecked by gastric distress?

Cinder

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7405 on: March 18, 2015, 03:33:06 PM »
I feel like I live in a ridiculous lap of luxury having 2.5 bath in my house.  Sink/throne downstairs, full bath with tub at top of stairs, and full bath with shower as a master suite...

My wife prefers using 'our' shower/bathroom.... I look at her like she has three heads because we own the house, they are all OUR bathrooms!   I guess I just don't get it. 

Growing up, we had a single downstairs bathroom in our house.  If you didn't like it, there was always the tree line out back !

Hedge_87

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7406 on: March 18, 2015, 08:33:38 PM »
I feel like I live in a ridiculous lap of luxury having 2.5 bath in my house.  Sink/throne downstairs, full bath with tub at top of stairs, and full bath with shower as a master suite...

My wife prefers using 'our' shower/bathroom.... I look at her like she has three heads because we own the house, they are all OUR bathrooms!   I guess I just don't get it. 

Growing up, we had a single downstairs bathroom in our house.  If you didn't like it, there was always the tree line out back !
We called them "cowboy showers". Growing up, When we were running late and everybody was filthy mom would send a couple of us out to the garden hose with a bar of soap to get cleaned up*. the funny part is there was always a fight for who was the "lucky" one to take the cowboy shower.
*some of the fun you can have when your closest neighbors are ~5 miles away!

Pooplips

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7407 on: March 19, 2015, 05:23:56 AM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

I'm sorry, he really only remodeled 1 and just painted the other 2. I miss-typed in calling all of them remodeled.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7408 on: March 19, 2015, 07:52:35 AM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

3 seems reasonable, maybe a tad excessive.  2 is my absolute minimum.  I will never own/rent another place that has less than 2 bathrooms.  But more than 2 seems like excess.  I will for sure get full use out of a second bathroom, but a third? Not so much.

Avidconsumer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7409 on: March 19, 2015, 08:05:45 AM »
(Not sure this was sarcasm or not)

Don't get me started on Fahrenheit! What is room temperature in the US? Don't give me any wild numbers above 50!

Why do we need Fahrenheit?!?

Because the calibration is finer, so you can understand the actual temperature better. I mean WTF 30 should not be that much hotter than 20, that's just wrong. There need to be more gradations in between. Also because "below zero" should mean "seriously effing cold," not just "cold enough for water to freeze."

I agree with this... except that your examples are all just arbitrary. Why should't 30 be that much hotter than 20? You can turn it around and use it in the other direction just as easily. And we have decimal points for the fine calibration.

Now, the big thing that annoys me about Fahrenheit is that they basically made it up by sticking a thermometer in a bucket of ice and saying "This is really cold, this is 0" and then stuck a thermometer in a bucket of water on a fire and said "this is really hot, this is 100" and then filled everything in from there on that scale. Why not just do double centigrade? Have freezing water be 0 and boiling water be 200? That would have given the same effect as your pro-Fahrenheit arguments. Except even moreso.

Dude! That is the most brilliant shit i've heard ever! (not sarcastic)
Fahrenheit was a vet.  He didn't stick the thermometer in a bucket of hot water and say it was hot and 100 degrees.  He stuck it in a healthy horse and said it was 100 degrees.  Not joking.

At 0 C, water freezes and rain becomes snow or ice.. It's a good round number that indicates that the rain might hurt.

The argument for Fahrenheit is that you can tell the difference between 72 and 73 F. I can't and even if I could, It wouldn't change my attire.

Ooo. Do you feel that? We just dropped a degree F, I'm going to pull my socks up 2/3s of an inch to keep some heat in. No!

Fahrenheit is just another lets be different and drive on the other side of the street because those damn brit's are charging me a few cents on my PG tips.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7410 on: March 19, 2015, 08:07:22 AM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

3 seems reasonable, maybe a tad excessive.  2 is my absolute minimum.  I will never own/rent another place that has less than 2 bathrooms.  But more than 2 seems like excess.  I will for sure get full use out of a second bathroom, but a third? Not so much.

I think 3 is excessive but yeah, one bathroom for two adults kinda sucks. That's what we have now but when we eventually buy a house my minimum would be 1.5. I think boyfriend's minimum would be two (like for when we have kids)... personally I could live with one tub/shower, even for a family of four, but damn it's nice having two toilets :)

I feel like I live in a ridiculous lap of luxury having 2.5 bath in my house.  Sink/throne downstairs, full bath with tub at top of stairs, and full bath with shower as a master suite...

My wife prefers using 'our' shower/bathroom.... I look at her like she has three heads because we own the house, they are all OUR bathrooms!   I guess I just don't get it. 

Growing up, we had a single downstairs bathroom in our house.  If you didn't like it, there was always the tree line out back !
We called them "cowboy showers". Growing up, When we were running late and everybody was filthy mom would send a couple of us out to the garden hose with a bar of soap to get cleaned up*. the funny part is there was always a fight for who was the "lucky" one to take the cowboy shower.
*some of the fun you can have when your closest neighbors are ~5 miles away!

haha this is awesome! not quite the same thing, but the beach condo my family used to rent for our bi-yearly vacations had two full bathrooms inside and then an outside shower (fully enclosed). it was just a wood enclosure and sometimes I guess there were bugs out there and stuff, but it was MY FAVORITE shower. I love being outside, especially at the beach in the summer, why would I NOT want to spend even more of my day outside?!? but my cousins thought that one was gross and would never use it. so weird.

rockstache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7411 on: March 19, 2015, 08:34:25 AM »
I also feel like there are hidden fees above and beyond the .66%, but don't know how to prove it. Our company will never ever ever switch plans because a friend of the president/CEO is our adviser. He's making a killing, I'm sure of it, I'm just not sure where.
You don't have to be a trained auditor to read your statements. I'd start there.

lol...right. If only it was that easy. There are whole blogs and forums dedicated to the math behind figuring this stuff out. I have read a TON, but some of it is just over my head.

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7412 on: March 19, 2015, 09:09:29 AM »
Having a discussion with a cw the other day about retirement. He mentioned that it would be impossible for me to retire.
So much shameless projection. How do people not realize we're all different and most of their "needs" are just choices they made?
Then again he did just spend $20k redoing his 3 bathrooms for him and his wife. ???
If only he could have waited till he retired and did the work himself. Shoulda spent the $20K on solar panels, at least it'd add to the value and produce income.
I feel like I live in a ridiculous lap of luxury having 2.5 bath in my house.  Sink/throne downstairs, full bath with tub at top of stairs, and full bath with shower as a master suite...
We have two full baths for two adults, and I feel the same. My wife uses the second one as her private primping suite... other than that, it only gets used when we have guests. Ridiculous! Our last house had 2.5 and it was just silly. A definite sensation of paying extra just to have more unused shit to take care of.
lol...right. If only it was that easy. There are whole blogs and forums dedicated to the math behind figuring this stuff out. I have read a TON, but some of it is just over my head.
No math needed. Just read the list of transactions and look up any terms you don't recognize. There are only so many ways to categorize a fee.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 09:15:58 AM by zephyr911 »

Megma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7413 on: March 19, 2015, 09:42:23 AM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

3 seems reasonable, maybe a tad excessive.  2 is my absolute minimum.  I will never own/rent another place that has less than 2 bathrooms.  But more than 2 seems like excess.  I will for sure get full use out of a second bathroom, but a third? Not so much.

I whole heartedly agree! 1 bathroom for 2 people is "enough" but not ideal. I lived in a house with 4 girls and 1 bathroom in college and it was rough. Someone was always coming in for something while you were in the shower. We currently have 2.5 for 3 adults (me, bf and roommate), if it was just the two of us 1.5 would be ok but two full is ideal. More than 2.5 is too much to clean unless you have 6+ people living there.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7414 on: March 19, 2015, 10:26:09 AM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

3 seems reasonable, maybe a tad excessive.  2 is my absolute minimum.  I will never own/rent another place that has less than 2 bathrooms.  But more than 2 seems like excess.  I will for sure get full use out of a second bathroom, but a third? Not so much.

I whole heartedly agree! 1 bathroom for 2 people is "enough" but not ideal. I lived in a house with 4 girls and 1 bathroom in college and it was rough. Someone was always coming in for something while you were in the shower. We currently have 2.5 for 3 adults (me, bf and roommate), if it was just the two of us 1.5 would be ok but two full is ideal. More than 2.5 is too much to clean unless you have 6+ people living there.

I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7415 on: March 19, 2015, 10:32:49 AM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7416 on: March 19, 2015, 10:51:16 AM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).


Cookie78

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7417 on: March 19, 2015, 10:56:29 AM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).

This is a big part of the reason I'm hesitant to rent out my spare room. Living alone with one bathroom is fine. With a roommate there is potential for serious conflict. What if they take an hour in the bathroom each morning to get ready?!

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7418 on: March 19, 2015, 11:09:18 AM »
I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).
I admit it, I totally understood, but quibbled over semantics for the sake of shameless pedantry.

fantabulous

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7419 on: March 19, 2015, 11:12:13 AM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).

Poo capacity planning is serious business.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7420 on: March 19, 2015, 11:12:42 AM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).

This is a big part of the reason I'm hesitant to rent out my spare room. Living alone with one bathroom is fine. With a roommate there is potential for serious conflict. What if they take an hour in the bathroom each morning to get ready?!

I rented out 2 rooms in my house as soon as I moved in.  That money went towards building a second bathroom ASAP.  Within months I had a second bathroom paid for.

Even if they don't take an hour in the bathroom, what if I get diarrhea during their shower time? Or while they just happen to be using the bathroom? Recipe for disaster.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7421 on: March 19, 2015, 11:14:34 AM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).

Poo capacity planning is serious business.

Much like FIRE planning.  Decent chance of everything going fine regardless, but a small chance of absolute catastrophe.

Chuck

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7422 on: March 19, 2015, 11:19:43 AM »
I asked some co-workers if the same % of 401k contributions is taken from your bonus. They sighed heavily and said "Yes. I've tried to change it but it's hard to time correctly" I was thrilled. I had just upped mine to coincide with my raise! Inching up towards that maximum....
I wish I could just designate an amount each pay period instead of percentages. I get paid twice a month so would rather designate $750 each pay period instead of having to adjust percentages after pay raise and bonus.

That's the one nice thing about my company's 401k. The not so good? High fees (~0.50% on a Vanguard Target Date), and only 3% match with 4 year vesting :(.
We have John Hancock. The lowest rate in the whole plan is an S&P 500 index fund.

1.12%

We do too, except our lowest expense is .66%, same fund type. I'm struggling to determine whether it is worth it to contribute over the match (currently at 20%, but not the max), but I'm not very good at math and it's so confusing. I also feel like there are hidden fees above and beyond the .66%, but don't know how to prove it. Our company will never ever ever switch plans because a friend of the president/CEO is our adviser. He's making a killing, I'm sure of it, I'm just not sure where.
JH tries to confuse you in their fund portal by breaking the fee down into three separate catagories. Don't be fooled, and add all three catagories up.

It's totally possible that your company is larger than mine and just gets a better deal. We only have 25ish employees, many of which don't contribute all that much. Low funds = high rates.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7423 on: March 19, 2015, 11:24:36 AM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).

Wife and I definitely appreciate having 2 full (well, technically it's 1 3/4...) baths, mostly for the two toilets. My younger brother house-and-pet-sat for us while we were on vacation last week and was there a few days on either side of our vacation. When we got back from dinner (took the brother out as an additional thank-you for helping us out), the wife was shocked when I asked her if she needed to use the restroom or if I could go ahead- when she asked why I'd never asked her that before my answer was simple: normally it doesn't matter because I can just use the other bathroom but can't be assured of that since there were now 3 people and 2 toilets...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7424 on: March 19, 2015, 11:44:43 AM »
I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).
I admit it, I totally understood, but quibbled over semantics for the sake of shameless pedantry.

And I actually read through the whole explanation!  Arrrg!

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7425 on: March 19, 2015, 12:28:58 PM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).

Poo capacity planning is serious business.

Much like FIRE planning.  Decent chance of everything going fine regardless, but a small chance of absolute catastrophe.

Not as long as there's a free sink in the kitchen . . .




EDIT - AND WINDOW SHADES

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7426 on: March 19, 2015, 12:47:09 PM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).

This is a big part of the reason I'm hesitant to rent out my spare room. Living alone with one bathroom is fine. With a roommate there is potential for serious conflict. What if they take an hour in the bathroom each morning to get ready?!

I rented out 2 rooms in my house as soon as I moved in.  That money went towards building a second bathroom ASAP.  Within months I had a second bathroom paid for.

Even if they don't take an hour in the bathroom, what if I get diarrhea during their shower time? Or while they just happen to be using the bathroom? Recipe for disaster.

hahahaha you are making me laugh so hard with these posts... but I totally agree!! I've actually peed in my own backyard before (don't worry, we have a privacy fence). life is hard when you have one toilet, a bladder the size of a thimble, and a boyfriend who takes FOREVER in the bathroom (I think he gets distracted by his phone... I always call him out for 'poopbooking' when I see him post something on Facebook and I KNOW he's in the bathroom, hahaha)

rockstache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7427 on: March 19, 2015, 01:16:29 PM »
I asked some co-workers if the same % of 401k contributions is taken from your bonus. They sighed heavily and said "Yes. I've tried to change it but it's hard to time correctly" I was thrilled. I had just upped mine to coincide with my raise! Inching up towards that maximum....
I wish I could just designate an amount each pay period instead of percentages. I get paid twice a month so would rather designate $750 each pay period instead of having to adjust percentages after pay raise and bonus.

That's the one nice thing about my company's 401k. The not so good? High fees (~0.50% on a Vanguard Target Date), and only 3% match with 4 year vesting :(.
We have John Hancock. The lowest rate in the whole plan is an S&P 500 index fund.

1.12%

We do too, except our lowest expense is .66%, same fund type. I'm struggling to determine whether it is worth it to contribute over the match (currently at 20%, but not the max), but I'm not very good at math and it's so confusing. I also feel like there are hidden fees above and beyond the .66%, but don't know how to prove it. Our company will never ever ever switch plans because a friend of the president/CEO is our adviser. He's making a killing, I'm sure of it, I'm just not sure where.
JH tries to confuse you in their fund portal by breaking the fee down into three separate catagories. Don't be fooled, and add all three catagories up.

It's totally possible that your company is larger than mine and just gets a better deal. We only have 25ish employees, many of which don't contribute all that much. Low funds = high rates.

They are succeeding with the confusion. I only see the .66%, and the statement doesn't list transactions except for the total I added for the quarter. We have about 120 employees, so that might make some difference. What I really would like to be able to clearly figure out, is at what point it wouldn't be worth maxing out because the fees are too high. But that requires more math than I can figure out.

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7428 on: March 19, 2015, 01:28:09 PM »
They are succeeding with the confusion. I only see the .66%, and the statement doesn't list transactions except for the total I added for the quarter. We have about 120 employees, so that might make some difference. What I really would like to be able to clearly figure out, is at what point it wouldn't be worth maxing out because the fees are too high. But that requires more math than I can figure out.

Lucky for us, jlcollinsnh is great at math: http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/06/28/stocks-part-viii-b-should-you-avoid-your-companys-401k/

That post includes a rebuttal from the Mad FIendist.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7429 on: March 19, 2015, 01:33:09 PM »
I suppose I don't need 2 full bathrooms, but 2 toilets for sure.  I like to have a toilet free 100% of the time.
If you never reach full utilization, isn't that the very definition of wastefulness?

I don't mean a free toilet literally 100% of the time, I mean a free toilet 100% accessible to me, you know, for peak demand.  So if someone else is occupying the first toilet, I need a second toilet at the ready.  There is a 100% chance the first toilet will be used several times during the day, even if you only live with one other person.  While the odds that I need a second toilet is pretty low during any of those individual uses, those odds will approach 100% before the time frame gets too long (I would say around a 1-2 week period).

Poo capacity planning is serious business.

Much like FIRE planning.  Decent chance of everything going fine regardless, but a small chance of absolute catastrophe.

Not as long as there's a free sink in the kitchen . . .




EDIT - AND WINDOW SHADES

Not sure what kind of kitchen you run, but in my house explosive diarrhea in the kitchen sink would be classified as a catastrophe and I would like to avoid it.

Zaga

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7430 on: March 19, 2015, 01:45:02 PM »
I asked some co-workers if the same % of 401k contributions is taken from your bonus. They sighed heavily and said "Yes. I've tried to change it but it's hard to time correctly" I was thrilled. I had just upped mine to coincide with my raise! Inching up towards that maximum....
I wish I could just designate an amount each pay period instead of percentages. I get paid twice a month so would rather designate $750 each pay period instead of having to adjust percentages after pay raise and bonus.

That's the one nice thing about my company's 401k. The not so good? High fees (~0.50% on a Vanguard Target Date), and only 3% match with 4 year vesting :(.
We have John Hancock. The lowest rate in the whole plan is an S&P 500 index fund.

1.12%

We do too, except our lowest expense is .66%, same fund type. I'm struggling to determine whether it is worth it to contribute over the match (currently at 20%, but not the max), but I'm not very good at math and it's so confusing. I also feel like there are hidden fees above and beyond the .66%, but don't know how to prove it. Our company will never ever ever switch plans because a friend of the president/CEO is our adviser. He's making a killing, I'm sure of it, I'm just not sure where.
JH tries to confuse you in their fund portal by breaking the fee down into three separate catagories. Don't be fooled, and add all three catagories up.

It's totally possible that your company is larger than mine and just gets a better deal. We only have 25ish employees, many of which don't contribute all that much. Low funds = high rates.

They are succeeding with the confusion. I only see the .66%, and the statement doesn't list transactions except for the total I added for the quarter. We have about 120 employees, so that might make some difference. What I really would like to be able to clearly figure out, is at what point it wouldn't be worth maxing out because the fees are too high. But that requires more math than I can figure out.
To oversimplify I look at it this way.  If I'm in the 15% tax bracket and paying 1.5% fees in the 401-K, I can pay those fees for 10 years before losing out on the initial tax benefit.

So, if I'm in a job like that and don't expect to be there for more than 2 years, then I would go ahead and max it out!  Because as soon as you leave the job you'll be rolling that shit over to a low fee IRA like Vanguard!

**Yes, this is not an accurate calculation, but it is close enough to get the idea.

Unique User

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7431 on: March 19, 2015, 01:45:17 PM »
I feel like I live in a ridiculous lap of luxury having 2.5 bath in my house.  Sink/throne downstairs, full bath with tub at top of stairs, and full bath with shower as a master suite...
We have two full baths for two adults, and I feel the same. My wife uses the second one as her private primping suite... other than that, it only gets used when we have guests. Ridiculous! Our last house had 2.5 and it was just silly. A definite sensation of paying extra just to have more unused shit to take care of.

I agree luxurious, but sometimes necessary.  I could not imagine having to share a bathroom with my teen.  I hate to even walk into her bathroom, I usually just shudder and shut the door. 

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7432 on: March 19, 2015, 02:17:44 PM »
(Not sure this was sarcasm or not)

Don't get me started on Fahrenheit! What is room temperature in the US? Don't give me any wild numbers above 50!

Why do we need Fahrenheit?!?

Because the calibration is finer, so you can understand the actual temperature better. I mean WTF 30 should not be that much hotter than 20, that's just wrong. There need to be more gradations in between. Also because "below zero" should mean "seriously effing cold," not just "cold enough for water to freeze."

I agree with this... except that your examples are all just arbitrary. Why should't 30 be that much hotter than 20? You can turn it around and use it in the other direction just as easily. And we have decimal points for the fine calibration.

Now, the big thing that annoys me about Fahrenheit is that they basically made it up by sticking a thermometer in a bucket of ice and saying "This is really cold, this is 0" and then stuck a thermometer in a bucket of water on a fire and said "this is really hot, this is 100" and then filled everything in from there on that scale. Why not just do double centigrade? Have freezing water be 0 and boiling water be 200? That would have given the same effect as your pro-Fahrenheit arguments. Except even moreso.

Dude! That is the most brilliant shit i've heard ever! (not sarcastic)
Fahrenheit was a vet.  He didn't stick the thermometer in a bucket of hot water and say it was hot and 100 degrees.  He stuck it in a healthy horse and said it was 100 degrees.  Not joking.

At 0 C, water freezes and rain becomes snow or ice.. It's a good round number that indicates that the rain might hurt.

The argument for Fahrenheit is that you can tell the difference between 72 and 73 F. I can't and even if I could, It wouldn't change my attire.

Ooo. Do you feel that? We just dropped a degree F, I'm going to pull my socks up 2/3s of an inch to keep some heat in. No!

Fahrenheit is just another lets be different and drive on the other side of the street because those damn brit's are charging me a few cents on my PG tips.

I don't know why Fahrenheit is still used today, but Fahrenheit was established like 50 years before Celcius.

fantabulous

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7433 on: March 19, 2015, 02:49:34 PM »
Not as long as there's a free sink in the kitchen . . .
EDIT - AND WINDOW SHADES

Not sure what kind of kitchen you run, but in my house explosive diarrhea in the kitchen sink would be classified as a catastrophe and I would like to avoid it.

I believe you just use the sprayer and run the garbage disposal every so often in that situation. Assuming you have both.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7434 on: March 19, 2015, 03:46:42 PM »
I feel like I live in a ridiculous lap of luxury having 2.5 bath in my house.  Sink/throne downstairs, full bath with tub at top of stairs, and full bath with shower as a master suite...

My wife prefers using 'our' shower/bathroom.... I look at her like she has three heads because we own the house, they are all OUR bathrooms!   I guess I just don't get it. 

Growing up, we had a single downstairs bathroom in our house.  If you didn't like it, there was always the tree line out back !
Sigh.  What I wouldn't do for a second toilet.  I grew up in a house with one bathroom, and most of the time 2 sisters and a brother in the house.  We never had an issue?

But now.  Seriously, I can never shower or pee in peace.  Like, ever.  That's just with a husband, 9 year old boy, 2.5 year old boy.  Why does everyone need the bathroom at the same time??

Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7435 on: March 19, 2015, 03:49:53 PM »
I feel like I live in a ridiculous lap of luxury having 2.5 bath in my house.  Sink/throne downstairs, full bath with tub at top of stairs, and full bath with shower as a master suite...

My wife prefers using 'our' shower/bathroom.... I look at her like she has three heads because we own the house, they are all OUR bathrooms!   I guess I just don't get it. 

Growing up, we had a single downstairs bathroom in our house.  If you didn't like it, there was always the tree line out back !
Sigh.  What I wouldn't do for a second toilet.  I grew up in a house with one bathroom, and most of the time 2 sisters and a brother in the house.  We never had an issue?

But now.  Seriously, I can never shower or pee in peace.  Like, ever.  That's just with a husband, 9 year old boy, 2.5 year old boy.  Why does everyone need the bathroom at the same time??

Monkey see, monkey doo doo.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7436 on: March 19, 2015, 03:58:42 PM »
I feel like I live in a ridiculous lap of luxury having 2.5 bath in my house.  Sink/throne downstairs, full bath with tub at top of stairs, and full bath with shower as a master suite...

My wife prefers using 'our' shower/bathroom.... I look at her like she has three heads because we own the house, they are all OUR bathrooms!   I guess I just don't get it. 

Growing up, we had a single downstairs bathroom in our house.  If you didn't like it, there was always the tree line out back !
Sigh.  What I wouldn't do for a second toilet.  I grew up in a house with one bathroom, and most of the time 2 sisters and a brother in the house.  We never had an issue?

But now.  Seriously, I can never shower or pee in peace.  Like, ever.  That's just with a husband, 9 year old boy, 2.5 year old boy.  Why does everyone need the bathroom at the same time??

Monkey see, monkey doo doo.
Okay, that made me snicker out loud.  Good thing I'm alone (one officemate laid off, other on travel)

I used to make my son pee in the backyard (when he was 4, 5, 6...) that ONE patch of grass that was his favorite spot was SO GREEN.

of course with the drought, we have no lawn anymore.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7437 on: March 19, 2015, 07:04:18 PM »
Okay, that made me snicker out loud.  Good thing I'm alone (one officemate laid off, other on travel)

I used to make my son pee in the backyard (when he was 4, 5, 6...) that ONE patch of grass that was his favorite spot was SO GREEN.

of course with the drought, we have no lawn anymore.
Sounds like you need to reinstate your old policy.  For the environment, of course.  Think of the wasted water!

Pooplips

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7438 on: March 20, 2015, 05:38:46 AM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

3 seems reasonable, maybe a tad excessive.  2 is my absolute minimum.  I will never own/rent another place that has less than 2 bathrooms.  But more than 2 seems like excess.  I will for sure get full use out of a second bathroom, but a third? Not so much.

I think 3 is excessive but yeah, one bathroom for two adults kinda sucks. That's what we have now but when we eventually buy a house my minimum would be 1.5. I think boyfriend's minimum would be two (like for when we have kids)... personally I could live with one tub/shower, even for a family of four, but damn it's nice having two.

I guess I'm not understanding how 2 ppl and one bathroom is so difficult. How often do you people poop at the same time? Or some serious bladder control issues?

What am I missing? Haha

The struggle is real here in the developed world. Haha

kyanamerinas

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7439 on: March 20, 2015, 05:55:42 AM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

3 seems reasonable, maybe a tad excessive.  2 is my absolute minimum.  I will never own/rent another place that has less than 2 bathrooms.  But more than 2 seems like excess.  I will for sure get full use out of a second bathroom, but a third? Not so much.

I think 3 is excessive but yeah, one bathroom for two adults kinda sucks. That's what we have now but when we eventually buy a house my minimum would be 1.5. I think boyfriend's minimum would be two (like for when we have kids)... personally I could live with one tub/shower, even for a family of four, but damn it's nice having two.

I guess I'm not understanding how 2 ppl and one bathroom is so difficult. How often do you people poop at the same time? Or some serious bladder control issues?

What am I missing? Haha

The struggle is real here in the developed world. Haha

yeah, a lot of family homes in the UK have only one bathroom and it's never seemed to be a horrendous problem.
we are two adults, frequent visitors and one bathroom. no problems at all.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7440 on: March 20, 2015, 07:45:11 AM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

3 seems reasonable, maybe a tad excessive.  2 is my absolute minimum.  I will never own/rent another place that has less than 2 bathrooms.  But more than 2 seems like excess.  I will for sure get full use out of a second bathroom, but a third? Not so much.

I think 3 is excessive but yeah, one bathroom for two adults kinda sucks. That's what we have now but when we eventually buy a house my minimum would be 1.5. I think boyfriend's minimum would be two (like for when we have kids)... personally I could live with one tub/shower, even for a family of four, but damn it's nice having two.

I guess I'm not understanding how 2 ppl and one bathroom is so difficult. How often do you people poop at the same time? Or some serious bladder control issues?

What am I missing? Haha

The struggle is real here in the developed world. Haha

I have stomach issues and poop a lot.  Even with only 2 people it happens at least once a week where we both need access to the bathroom.  Growing up in a 5 person house was terrible.

solon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7441 on: March 20, 2015, 08:16:33 AM »
I have stomach issues and poop a lot.  Even with only 2 people it happens at least once a week where we both need access to the bathroom.  Growing up in a 5 person house was terrible.

eww! Didn't want to know that. You should be a little more frugal with those nachos!

rockstache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7442 on: March 20, 2015, 09:17:19 AM »
They are succeeding with the confusion. I only see the .66%, and the statement doesn't list transactions except for the total I added for the quarter. We have about 120 employees, so that might make some difference. What I really would like to be able to clearly figure out, is at what point it wouldn't be worth maxing out because the fees are too high. But that requires more math than I can figure out.

Lucky for us, jlcollinsnh is great at math: http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/06/28/stocks-part-viii-b-should-you-avoid-your-companys-401k/

That post includes a rebuttal from the Mad FIendist.

I have read that post at least 15 times. And the rebuttal a few times too. Trouble is, I just don't know. Yes, I am in the 15% tax bracket (or was this past year), but that is partially because of what I am already contributing to the 401K, so if I contributed less, I wouldn't be. I currently contribute 20%, but still don't max it. I will probably be in this job for quite a while (no idea how long really, but it's basically stress free and the pay me ok, so not looking to switch currently), and I do get a 3% match up to 6%. Also on my 3 month statement, it says that I was charged $25 for administrative expenses. I am not sure, but I assume this is over and above the individual fund fees? Everyone is making it sound like it's really easy and I guess for you it might be, but this is way over my head. With Zaga's math it sounds like I would have to be in the job for 22 years for it not to be worth it...is that right? Thanks everyone for the comments. I guess I'm a dummy, because I'm just not figuring it out. Sorry to derail the thread and for my thickheadedness.

Zaga

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7443 on: March 20, 2015, 10:01:37 AM »
They are succeeding with the confusion. I only see the .66%, and the statement doesn't list transactions except for the total I added for the quarter. We have about 120 employees, so that might make some difference. What I really would like to be able to clearly figure out, is at what point it wouldn't be worth maxing out because the fees are too high. But that requires more math than I can figure out.

Lucky for us, jlcollinsnh is great at math: http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/06/28/stocks-part-viii-b-should-you-avoid-your-companys-401k/

That post includes a rebuttal from the Mad FIendist.

I have read that post at least 15 times. And the rebuttal a few times too. Trouble is, I just don't know. Yes, I am in the 15% tax bracket (or was this past year), but that is partially because of what I am already contributing to the 401K, so if I contributed less, I wouldn't be. I currently contribute 20%, but still don't max it. I will probably be in this job for quite a while (no idea how long really, but it's basically stress free and the pay me ok, so not looking to switch currently), and I do get a 3% match up to 6%. Also on my 3 month statement, it says that I was charged $25 for administrative expenses. I am not sure, but I assume this is over and above the individual fund fees? Everyone is making it sound like it's really easy and I guess for you it might be, but this is way over my head. With Zaga's math it sounds like I would have to be in the job for 22 years for it not to be worth it...is that right? Thanks everyone for the comments. I guess I'm a dummy, because I'm just not figuring it out. Sorry to derail the thread and for my thickheadedness.
Like I said, my math is far from perfect.

You've over-complicating matters.  The important thing is that you save.  You can't predict the future.  Sure, you may be in that job for 20+ years, or they may have a restructuring and lay you off tomorrow.  Is this decision worth you getting ulcers over a few $ one way or another?  I would think not.

Now, I know that MMM is all about optimizing, but not all people can think that way all the time.  Do your best, make a decision, move on.

I know that some years we have contributed to a Roth when we "should" have contributed more to a 401-K instead.  You know what?  Not the end of the world.  We saved, we are happy with that.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7444 on: March 20, 2015, 11:36:53 AM »
20k on three bathrooms is a pretty good price actually.  why he needs 3 i dont know but 7k bathroom remodel is on the affordable side of spendy people spending.

3 seems reasonable, maybe a tad excessive.  2 is my absolute minimum.  I will never own/rent another place that has less than 2 bathrooms.  But more than 2 seems like excess.  I will for sure get full use out of a second bathroom, but a third? Not so much.

I think 3 is excessive but yeah, one bathroom for two adults kinda sucks. That's what we have now but when we eventually buy a house my minimum would be 1.5. I think boyfriend's minimum would be two (like for when we have kids)... personally I could live with one tub/shower, even for a family of four, but damn it's nice having two.

I guess I'm not understanding how 2 ppl and one bathroom is so difficult. How often do you people poop at the same time? Or some serious bladder control issues?

What am I missing? Haha

The struggle is real here in the developed world. Haha
the only place my husband gets peace is in the bathroom.  He takes forever sometimes.  Inevitably, the kiddo needs to go at the same time.

rockstache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7445 on: March 20, 2015, 12:25:37 PM »
They are succeeding with the confusion. I only see the .66%, and the statement doesn't list transactions except for the total I added for the quarter. We have about 120 employees, so that might make some difference. What I really would like to be able to clearly figure out, is at what point it wouldn't be worth maxing out because the fees are too high. But that requires more math than I can figure out.

Lucky for us, jlcollinsnh is great at math: http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/06/28/stocks-part-viii-b-should-you-avoid-your-companys-401k/

That post includes a rebuttal from the Mad FIendist.

I have read that post at least 15 times. And the rebuttal a few times too. Trouble is, I just don't know. Yes, I am in the 15% tax bracket (or was this past year), but that is partially because of what I am already contributing to the 401K, so if I contributed less, I wouldn't be. I currently contribute 20%, but still don't max it. I will probably be in this job for quite a while (no idea how long really, but it's basically stress free and the pay me ok, so not looking to switch currently), and I do get a 3% match up to 6%. Also on my 3 month statement, it says that I was charged $25 for administrative expenses. I am not sure, but I assume this is over and above the individual fund fees? Everyone is making it sound like it's really easy and I guess for you it might be, but this is way over my head. With Zaga's math it sounds like I would have to be in the job for 22 years for it not to be worth it...is that right? Thanks everyone for the comments. I guess I'm a dummy, because I'm just not figuring it out. Sorry to derail the thread and for my thickheadedness.
Like I said, my math is far from perfect.

You've over-complicating matters.  The important thing is that you save.  You can't predict the future.  Sure, you may be in that job for 20+ years, or they may have a restructuring and lay you off tomorrow.  Is this decision worth you getting ulcers over a few $ one way or another?  I would think not.

Now, I know that MMM is all about optimizing, but not all people can think that way all the time.  Do your best, make a decision, move on.

I know that some years we have contributed to a Roth when we "should" have contributed more to a 401-K instead.  You know what?  Not the end of the world.  We saved, we are happy with that.

Excellent point, thank you. I can definitely get over anxious about the details, and forget the bigger picture.

Stachetastic

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7446 on: March 20, 2015, 02:02:54 PM »
I have a coworker who drives a 14 year old truck, that he keeps in pristine condition. I really thought this guy "got it" until today when he announces he is looking at new (brand new!) trucks because he wants a blue tooth stereo option. I told him he can buy a new stereo for ~$100 and he'd be all set. He said he's OCD about a new stereo not fitting properly and looking like the original factory install, so he will be buying a Tacoma when the new design comes out. I helpfully informed him he was crazy.  Fortunately, he took it well.

gimp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7447 on: March 20, 2015, 02:19:01 PM »
Bluetooth audio modules are about $3 on ebay, cassette adapters about as much.

Eventually I'm going to open the thing up, mcguyver the bluetooth module inside the car, and tie it in directly bypassing the radio / head unit. But for now... it's a $6 setup and fairly rock solid. You might want to tell him that.

FoundPeace

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7448 on: March 20, 2015, 02:26:15 PM »
I have a coworker who drives a 14 year old truck, that he keeps in pristine condition. I really thought this guy "got it" until today when he announces he is looking at new (brand new!) trucks because he wants a blue tooth stereo option. I told him he can buy a new stereo for ~$100 and he'd be all set. He said he's OCD about a new stereo not fitting properly and looking like the original factory install, so he will be buying a Tacoma when the new design comes out. I helpfully informed him he was crazy.  Fortunately, he took it well.

It is always disappointing when this happens. Maybe there is another reason that he hasn't told you about...

it's a $6 setup and fairly rock solid. You might want to tell him that.
+1

Coworker told me at a group dinner that he just paid $5k for ACL surgery on his dog. Everyone in the group proceeded to discuss some new pet health insurance that just came out. Some people said that they were planning to get it.

I agree that it is important to take care of your animals, but $5,000? But what do I know? I think animals belong in the wild or producing something on a farm. Animals are an expensive hobby.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7449 on: March 20, 2015, 02:28:10 PM »

Coworker told me at a group dinner that he just paid $5k for ACL surgery on his dog. Everyone in the group proceeded to discuss some new pet health insurance that just came out. Some people said that they were planning to get it.

I agree that it is important to take care of your animals, but $5,000? But what do I know? I think animals belong in the wild or producing something on a farm. Animals are an expensive hobby.

Yeah I don't know what I would do. I don't plan on having any kids so maybe someday I will get a dog and if that's the case I can see myself wanting to take care of him as best as I can, which may include spending this much on surgery. But this would be a more emotional decision and not a rational one.