Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 5636555 times)

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7750 on: April 09, 2015, 02:10:31 PM »
She buys 4 packs of cigarettes each day on her way home for her husband and herself, costing $24 each day. 

This kind of short-sightedness is a bad symptom. She could at least buy cartons instead? I knew someone who did things like that, always buying just the minimum amount of something even though it was more costly per unit and in terms of time.

I think it could have something to do with paying as little as possible now, even though it costs more overall. This also implies a very high subjective rate of time preference - $1 tomorrow is worth much less than $1 today.

As a former smoker, I usually didn't want to stock up on packs.  I always wanted to be ready to quit and if I had an extra pack, I wouldn't quit until I was done with that pack.  Not saying it makes sense, but it's the way I looked at it, and I know a lot of other people did too.
Quote

Warning.
Humblebrag alert.
hahaha   A paid off house is NOT AT ALL a humblebrag on this forum.  I'm 40 and I work for the man full time.  That's actually rather low performance in this neck of the woods.

A humblebrag would be....."just turned 12 and hit FI.  Need to reign in my spending so I can FIRE before I'm 15 years old.  Living in a cardboard box and all but still have three bicycles.  should sell at least two of these useless assets."
Yeah, there's no better place to humblebrag about a paid off house, FI, etc than here.  I was really referring to the complaints that people are complimenting us because we're so ripped, and rich, and our SO is so ripped, and etc etc?

This subject has been debated before, but when people use the words "you're so lucky", just accept it for the compliment it is.  They admire you and may not know enough of the details of your life or may just not know how to express "good for you" other than to say "you're lucky". 
But complaining because people think your life is great is a total humblebrag.  Poor me, people think I just fell into this fantastic life and they don't realize it takes hard work to be perfect!  LOL!

Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

tarheeldan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7751 on: April 09, 2015, 02:15:57 PM »
What is this, the Weimar Republic?

LOL! There are more recent examples

but I think you know tomorrow wasn't meant literally :P

As a former smoker, I usually didn't want to stock up on packs.  I always wanted to be ready to quit and if I had an extra pack, I wouldn't quit until I was done with that pack.  Not saying it makes sense, but it's the way I looked at it, and I know a lot of other people did too.

I'm a former smoker too! But I used to buy cartons from eastern Europe and sell them locally at a mark-up (but below market), which paid for the ones I kept and smoked.

RFAAOATB

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7752 on: April 09, 2015, 05:53:10 PM »
I'm a former smoker too! But I used to buy cartons from eastern Europe and sell them locally at a mark-up (but below market), which paid for the ones I kept and smoked.

Any recommendation for a good site to order from?  Cigarettes are expensive and taxes just went up.  If I make an order I don't want it held up in customs or something.

tarheeldan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7753 on: April 09, 2015, 06:50:43 PM »
Any recommendation for a good site to order from?  Cigarettes are expensive and taxes just went up.  If I make an order I don't want it held up in customs or something.

Well, the sites I used were in an, ahem, gray area legally - I think for tax reasons. I believe each parcel could contain 2 cartons maximum for this reason. Anyway I used sites like cigoutlet..one could do a Google search for cheap online cigarettes. Looks like prices are still about 50% of the US prices.

Torran

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7754 on: April 10, 2015, 05:32:51 AM »
Completely off topic, because not money related, but I just overheard from a conversation at the next desk:
In quick sucession:
"Do you ever wonder what it would be like if dinosaurs still existed?'
'Do you think there's someone in the world who knows all the information?'
And then the enigmatic, 'What if aliens...' which just trailed off into silence.
Slow day at the office. It's a beautiful sunny day outside. I am 100% aware of how awesome it must be to be retired.

Megma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7755 on: April 10, 2015, 07:59:38 AM »
I suggested to a coworker whom I'm friendly with to try Mint to track her spending, she responded that maybe she will try it in a few months because she has been spending too much and she doesn't want it to tell her she's over budget.
Get cash back on your online shopping from Mr Rebates (hotels, flights, ebay, groupon and more): http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=453502 (referral link, thank you!)

dsmexpat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7756 on: April 10, 2015, 08:14:06 AM »
Completely off topic, because not money related, but I just overheard from a conversation at the next desk:
In quick sucession:
"Do you ever wonder what it would be like if dinosaurs still existed?'
'Do you think there's someone in the world who knows all the information?'
And then the enigmatic, 'What if aliens...' which just trailed off into silence.
Slow day at the office. It's a beautiful sunny day outside. I am 100% aware of how awesome it must be to be retired.
Birds are dinosaurs in every meaningful sense.

Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7757 on: April 10, 2015, 08:24:49 AM »
Completely off topic, because not money related, but I just overheard from a conversation at the next desk:
In quick sucession:
"Do you ever wonder what it would be like if dinosaurs still existed?'
'Do you think there's someone in the world who knows all the information?'
And then the enigmatic, 'What if aliens...' which just trailed off into silence.
Slow day at the office. It's a beautiful sunny day outside. I am 100% aware of how awesome it must be to be retired.
Birds are dinosaurs in every meaningful sense.

It's like asking about woolly mammoths: yummy! 10/10 would eat.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7758 on: April 10, 2015, 08:37:14 AM »

Torran

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7759 on: April 10, 2015, 09:15:54 AM »
Completely off topic, because not money related, but I just overheard from a conversation at the next desk:
In quick sucession:
"Do you ever wonder what it would be like if dinosaurs still existed?'
'Do you think there's someone in the world who knows all the information?'
And then the enigmatic, 'What if aliens...' which just trailed off into silence.
Slow day at the office. It's a beautiful sunny day outside. I am 100% aware of how awesome it must be to be retired.
Birds are dinosaurs in every meaningful sense.

Hahaha I wish I'd had this to say to them at the time :)

dsmexpat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7760 on: April 10, 2015, 09:17:46 AM »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7761 on: April 10, 2015, 10:42:23 AM »
I suggested to a coworker whom I'm friendly with to try Mint to track her spending, she responded that maybe she will try it in a few months because she has been spending too much and she doesn't want it to tell her she's over budget.
Many of the world's problems, in a nutshell, right there.

Cougar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7762 on: April 10, 2015, 11:02:30 AM »

overheard new for me at work, as i have moved recently; i now have coworkers that bring their lunches daily and eat them at their desk. the thought keeps occurring to me that this conditional behavior is the same you might see in lab rats.


now, i bring my lunch; but i leave the building and go outside; but i cannot wait for the day when my time is 100% mine.

Maigahane

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7763 on: April 10, 2015, 11:31:12 AM »
Coworker - That 7% they automatically take for retirement is a huge hunk of money. Like my dad says, why save for tomorrow if you can't live today?

Me - You learn to live on less today. And if you live on less today you need less tomorrow so you can retire sooner

Coworker - Have a couple of kids and you'll change your tune

This is the same guy that just went to Disneyworld/land/whichever-one-is-in-Florida, has bought 2 new-to-him cars in the last 2 years, and spent more fixing his son's car than I think a 17 year old's car should be worth. I really hope that my plan works out and I can retire from here in 6 years at the ripe old age of 35. I like my job and everyone I work with but they are all pretty spendy and seem to think they can't do any better

Rollin

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7764 on: April 10, 2015, 11:43:23 AM »
Talking to people at work about the fund lineup in the 401(k) plan and mentioned that we have some real stinkers. I pointed specifically to one with a total expense of 2.5% -I kid you not. To which, the Finance Director responded that he invests in that fund. I held it together and said, "oh?" and he doubled down by telling me (from his wisdom) that you don't pick a fund based on fees, because a good fund will have higher fees and will still earns higher total returns. He specifically said one of his reasons for investing in this fund is that it's "highly managed". Then he told me that it has performed very well for him. I checked, and this highly managed awfulness has managed to underperform the market on a 1-, 5-, and 10-year basis. Ouch ouch ouch.

We have a "Plus" fund offered with a 0.83% fee, and returns of about 2% over the past 3 years.  Hmmmmm, his formula doesn't seem to hold there.  What am I missing?  JK
I love being outside.

frugledoc

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7765 on: April 10, 2015, 11:46:17 AM »
A coworker of mine makes a combined household income of $60k with her spouse.  She buys 4 packs of cigarettes each day on her way home for her husband and herself, costing $24 each day.  I showed her that she's eating up 15% of her household income in just cigarettes.  Addiction scares me.

She often complains about not being able to get ahead or save any money, but fellow coworkers and I have suggested alternatives to some of her problems.  Unfortunately her response is that she's fine with things the way they are.  Why complain, then?  What purpose does it serve to voice your problems if you are not looking for solutions?  I'd like to know if anyone has insight into the psychology behind it.

I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.

zataks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7766 on: April 10, 2015, 12:03:52 PM »
I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.

Or, like the reason most people communicate with others, they are looking to connect with others who may share the same "problems".  If coworkers can commiserate about never having enough money, it is a form of connection, no?  Much the same way this forum bonds over frugality/money management.

sw1tch

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7767 on: April 10, 2015, 12:05:30 PM »
A coworker of mine makes a combined household income of $60k with her spouse.  She buys 4 packs of cigarettes each day on her way home for her husband and herself, costing $24 each day.  I showed her that she's eating up 15% of her household income in just cigarettes.  Addiction scares me.

She often complains about not being able to get ahead or save any money, but fellow coworkers and I have suggested alternatives to some of her problems.  Unfortunately her response is that she's fine with things the way they are.  Why complain, then?  What purpose does it serve to voice your problems if you are not looking for solutions?  I'd like to know if anyone has insight into the psychology behind it.

I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.

+1

So much truth!
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I, sw1tch, will become a millionaire!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7768 on: April 10, 2015, 01:10:20 PM »
Quote
"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions.   

I also have noticed over the years that "normals" want approval. Nothing is their fault. Their self-indulgent choices are OK. It's OK to keep doing it.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7769 on: April 10, 2015, 01:23:56 PM »
As a former smoker, I usually didn't want to stock up on packs.  I always wanted to be ready to quit and if I had an extra pack, I wouldn't quit until I was done with that pack.  Not saying it makes sense, but it's the way I looked at it, and I know a lot of other people did too.

It's probably some of each, but I agree with you.  Whenever I'm trying to lose weight might cave once in a while and buy a donut at 7-11 for $1 (or whatever just an example).  Someone might say hey you can buy the dozen for just $6.  But then I'd be accepting the fact that I'm going to eat a dozen donuts, which doesn't align with my goals.  A bit of cognitive dissonance there.

I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.

Not to get into a gender war here but IMO you could replace "normals" with "women" and "mustachians" with "men".  Flame away.

Completely off topic, because not money related, but I just overheard from a conversation at the next desk:
In quick sucession:
"Do you ever wonder what it would be like if dinosaurs still existed?'
'Do you think there's someone in the world who knows all the information?'
And then the enigmatic, 'What if aliens...' which just trailed off into silence.
Slow day at the office. It's a beautiful sunny day outside. I am 100% aware of how awesome it must be to be retired.

I want work with these people!

What if everything was spiders???


PencilThinStash

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7770 on: April 10, 2015, 01:50:00 PM »

I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.


Not to get into a gender war here but IMO you could replace "normals" with "women" and "mustachians" with "men".  Flame away.


Not going to comment on lines 2 and 3, purely to avoid the flame wars...

But for that first line, agreed. I definitely have trouble understanding "women people"

dividendman

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7771 on: April 10, 2015, 02:16:01 PM »
Quote
"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions.   

I also have noticed over the years that "normals" want approval. Nothing is their fault. Their self-indulgent choices are OK. It's OK to keep doing it.

Muggles are funny.

Cinder

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7772 on: April 10, 2015, 02:43:17 PM »
A coworker of mine makes a combined household income of $60k with her spouse.  She buys 4 packs of cigarettes each day on her way home for her husband and herself, costing $24 each day.  I showed her that she's eating up 15% of her household income in just cigarettes.  Addiction scares me.

She often complains about not being able to get ahead or save any money, but fellow coworkers and I have suggested alternatives to some of her problems.  Unfortunately her response is that she's fine with things the way they are.  Why complain, then?  What purpose does it serve to voice your problems if you are not looking for solutions?  I'd like to know if anyone has insight into the psychology behind it.

I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.

+1

So much truth!

+1 ... Holy crap, I never realized this... I've always been confused.... why are you telling me about your problem if you don't want a solution and you get mad at me when I offer several different options that you could do if the situation arises again?  ARGH

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7773 on: April 10, 2015, 02:48:15 PM »
I'm a young engineer, a little over a year out of college. I discovered MMM at the beginning of march and have pulled a 180 in my life since then.

Whenever I try to talk to people at work about the possibility of financial independence by 35, their responses are always one of three things:
1) Winning the lottery doesn't count as a plan
2) Just wait until you have kids, all that will change
3) Make sure your wife is on board so she doesn't leave you and take half your shit

It bothers me that I work in a place where people see winning the lottery as the only possible means of early retirement. A place that also works their people so hard that it has strained most of the marriages in my office to the point of failure.

My favorite example is a man in his early 60s that has been divorced for over two decades and has a kid that is grown and moved out, complaining about how he is eligible for retirement in a few months, but he'll probably stay around because he can't afford the insurance if he doesn't.
This is a man with a 3000 sq-ft house sitting on about 5 acres and more project cars than I have fingers to count them on, yet he still blames the government and the company for making him unable to take care of himself in retirement.

intirb

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7774 on: April 10, 2015, 02:50:00 PM »
I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.

Not to get into a gender war here but IMO you could replace "normals" with "women" and "mustachians" with "men".  Flame away.

I'm a woman and I tend to fall in the straightforward, looking for solutions and feedback category.  I doubt that there's anything particularly innate to gender that would cause someone to prefer one method or another.  And of course we've seen that women make up a large part of this forum and mustachians in general.

However, there are obviously strong differences in how men and women are socialized and taught to respond to situations, especially conflict.  If someone is used to having feedback presented harshly and without regard to personal feelings (a situation many men are in, because they're taught to ignore their feelings from a very early age), then they can have a hard time recognizing the careful, gentle feedback interspersed within conditional and sympathetic statements.  On the other hand, if someone is used to having feedback presented with care to avoid hurting feelings (a situation many women are in, because they're taught to avoid confrontation from a very early age), then straightforward feedback can feel particularly harsh or even rude.  Personally, I think these socialized gender roles do no one any favors.  It is a valuable life skill to be able to present and understand both gentle and harsh feedback styles and to be flexible in this regard.  It's also a valuable life skill to understand when someone is just venting vs actually asking for advice.  If you're viewing any of these skills as inappropriate or beneath you because they don't fit with your self-constructed gender identity and whatever baggage you've attached to that, I think you're doing yourself a very large disservice by preventing personal growth.


dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7775 on: April 10, 2015, 03:00:44 PM »
I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.

Not to get into a gender war here but IMO you could replace "normals" with "women" and "mustachians" with "men".  Flame away.

I'm a woman and I tend to fall in the straightforward, looking for solutions and feedback category.  I doubt that there's anything particularly innate to gender that would cause someone to prefer one method or another.  And of course we've seen that women make up a large part of this forum and mustachians in general.

However, there are obviously strong differences in how men and women are socialized and taught to respond to situations, especially conflict.  If someone is used to having feedback presented harshly and without regard to personal feelings (a situation many men are in, because they're taught to ignore their feelings from a very early age), then they can have a hard time recognizing the careful, gentle feedback interspersed within conditional and sympathetic statements.  On the other hand, if someone is used to having feedback presented with care to avoid hurting feelings (a situation many women are in, because they're taught to avoid confrontation from a very early age), then straightforward feedback can feel particularly harsh or even rude.  Personally, I think these socialized gender roles do no one any favors.  It is a valuable life skill to be able to present and understand both gentle and harsh feedback styles and to be flexible in this regard.  It's also a valuable life skill to understand when someone is just venting vs actually asking for advice.  If you're viewing any of these skills as inappropriate or beneath you because they don't fit with your self-constructed gender identity and whatever baggage you've attached to that, I think you're doing yourself a very large disservice by preventing personal growth.

To clarify, I'm not saying All men or women a a certain way.  That's ridiculous.  But anyone who hasn't noticed this trend might have their gender neutrality goggles on

Cookie78

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7776 on: April 10, 2015, 03:05:51 PM »
I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.

Not to get into a gender war here but IMO you could replace "normals" with "women" and "mustachians" with "men".  Flame away.

I'm a woman and I tend to fall in the straightforward, looking for solutions and feedback category.  I doubt that there's anything particularly innate to gender that would cause someone to prefer one method or another.  And of course we've seen that women make up a large part of this forum and mustachians in general.

However, there are obviously strong differences in how men and women are socialized and taught to respond to situations, especially conflict.  If someone is used to having feedback presented harshly and without regard to personal feelings (a situation many men are in, because they're taught to ignore their feelings from a very early age), then they can have a hard time recognizing the careful, gentle feedback interspersed within conditional and sympathetic statements.  On the other hand, if someone is used to having feedback presented with care to avoid hurting feelings (a situation many women are in, because they're taught to avoid confrontation from a very early age), then straightforward feedback can feel particularly harsh or even rude.  Personally, I think these socialized gender roles do no one any favors.  It is a valuable life skill to be able to present and understand both gentle and harsh feedback styles and to be flexible in this regard.  It's also a valuable life skill to understand when someone is just venting vs actually asking for advice.  If you're viewing any of these skills as inappropriate or beneath you because they don't fit with your self-constructed gender identity and whatever baggage you've attached to that, I think you're doing yourself a very large disservice by preventing personal growth.

To clarify, I'm not saying All men or women a a certain way.  That's ridiculous.  But anyone who hasn't noticed this trend might have their gender neutrality goggles on

I've heard this theory before, but I figure I must choose my friends carefully because I haven't had to experience it. Or maybe my friends choose who they would like to complain to carefully (not me) so that they will get sympathy and not feedback.

Or maybe I have goggles, I dunno.

I have had people clarify whether I wanted feedback, or just someone to listen, before they gave me their opinions and suggestions.

Cookie78

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7777 on: April 10, 2015, 03:06:42 PM »
DP

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7778 on: April 10, 2015, 03:55:10 PM »
DP

I guess if you're into that kinda thing

paddedhat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7779 on: April 10, 2015, 04:03:41 PM »
My favorite that I personally overheard at work -- over 10 years ago now, but I can remember it like yesterday --

This was in late December or early January, after busting my ass all year long for slightly-below-market pay:

Boss: we can't pay much in bonuses this year, since the company didn't do that well this year.  (Turns, exits building, drives away in brand new Suburban that he just bought.)

Boss's wife - shortly afterwards also shows up at building in new, expensive car.

Clean Shaven: gives notice and quits about 2 months later, after spending that time job searching.

This is one thing I do not miss about being a construction supervisor on large projects. Far too many projects had the "speech" somewhere along the way. The company owner would stop by the job trailer to tell you how much he appreciates all you do, but things are tight and they need 110% out of you to get through this rough spot. My favorite was the one owner who told me that I had little understanding of the numbers behind the business and there was very little profit in the game. He claimed that he was happy to net at least 1% of the total annual volume for his own pocket. Seems a bit light, eh? Well let's review.  He drove the biggest Mercedes sedan available, his POS kid stumbled around the company providing negative value, but needed a Land Rover so he could drive out to the jobs and look confused. The wife's company vehicle was a new Mercedes SUV. I never did figure out exactly what she did? The owner, his wife, and son all drew healthy salaries from the company. The paltry 1% he netted every year? Well, we were doing a bit over fifty million in volume when I left, so it's a nice chunk. That said, the real number was probably 3-4X that, based on info. provided by competitors I worked for. Nothing like getting the "poor me" speech from an asshole who is making 25-35X  your salary.

SantaFeSteve

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7780 on: April 10, 2015, 06:31:31 PM »
DP

I guess if you're into that kinda thing

ok, I lol'd a little.  Thanks Dragoncar

Cookie78

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7781 on: April 10, 2015, 06:46:18 PM »

Riff

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7782 on: April 10, 2015, 07:03:10 PM »
Not to get into a gender war here but IMO you could replace "normals" with "women" and "mustachians" with "men".  Flame away.

Ha! That makes me think of this awesome video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

Cressida

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7783 on: April 10, 2015, 07:21:43 PM »
However, there are obviously strong differences in how men and women are socialized and taught to respond to situations, especially conflict.  If someone is used to having feedback presented harshly and without regard to personal feelings (a situation many men are in, because they're taught to ignore their feelings from a very early age), then they can have a hard time recognizing the careful, gentle feedback interspersed within conditional and sympathetic statements.  On the other hand, if someone is used to having feedback presented with care to avoid hurting feelings (a situation many women are in, because they're taught to avoid confrontation from a very early age), then straightforward feedback can feel particularly harsh or even rude.  Personally, I think these socialized gender roles do no one any favors.  It is a valuable life skill to be able to present and understand both gentle and harsh feedback styles and to be flexible in this regard.  It's also a valuable life skill to understand when someone is just venting vs actually asking for advice.  If you're viewing any of these skills as inappropriate or beneath you because they don't fit with your self-constructed gender identity and whatever baggage you've attached to that, I think you're doing yourself a very large disservice by preventing personal growth.

+100

Cressida

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7784 on: April 10, 2015, 07:23:35 PM »
I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.

Not to get into a gender war here but IMO you could replace "normals" with "women" and "mustachians" with "men".  Flame away.

I'm a woman and I tend to fall in the straightforward, looking for solutions and feedback category.  I doubt that there's anything particularly innate to gender that would cause someone to prefer one method or another.  And of course we've seen that women make up a large part of this forum and mustachians in general.

However, there are obviously strong differences in how men and women are socialized and taught to respond to situations, especially conflict.  If someone is used to having feedback presented harshly and without regard to personal feelings (a situation many men are in, because they're taught to ignore their feelings from a very early age), then they can have a hard time recognizing the careful, gentle feedback interspersed within conditional and sympathetic statements.  On the other hand, if someone is used to having feedback presented with care to avoid hurting feelings (a situation many women are in, because they're taught to avoid confrontation from a very early age), then straightforward feedback can feel particularly harsh or even rude.  Personally, I think these socialized gender roles do no one any favors.  It is a valuable life skill to be able to present and understand both gentle and harsh feedback styles and to be flexible in this regard.  It's also a valuable life skill to understand when someone is just venting vs actually asking for advice.  If you're viewing any of these skills as inappropriate or beneath you because they don't fit with your self-constructed gender identity and whatever baggage you've attached to that, I think you're doing yourself a very large disservice by preventing personal growth.

To clarify, I'm not saying All men or women a a certain way.  That's ridiculous.  But anyone who hasn't noticed this trend might have their gender neutrality goggles on

I'm pretty sure intirb is trying to *explain* that trend (to the extent it exists), not deny it. That is, explain it in a way that goes beyond "bitches be crazy."

[edited: clarity]
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 10:34:28 PM by Cressida »

valk001

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7785 on: April 10, 2015, 11:08:58 PM »
One of my friends just announced that she is going to start nursing school next year and to reward her self she is buying a brand new Mercedes GLA, a 30K SUV....I just left the room, I did not want to ruin her moment but wow...

Gockie

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7786 on: April 11, 2015, 12:57:09 AM »
One of my friends just announced that she is going to start nursing school next year and to reward her self she is buying a brand new Mercedes GLA, a 30K SUV....I just left the room, I did not want to ruin her moment but wow...

Oh wow. And here I am, have been debating whether I should spend $300 to be in the Australian volleyball supporters club which will give me a ticket to every international men's and women's volleyball match in Australia this year (up to 10 matches!) plus a replica Jersey.... The men wil have two games against Brazil in my home town, and Brazil are going to be very strong next year at their home Olympics. It's not bad value given the best seats for one event go for about $85... I think I'll commit. :)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7787 on: April 11, 2015, 05:12:16 AM »
I'm a young engineer, a little over a year out of college. I discovered MMM at the beginning of march and have pulled a 180 in my life since then.

Whenever I try to talk to people at work about the possibility of financial independence by 35, their responses are always one of three things:
1) Winning the lottery doesn't count as a plan
2) Just wait until you have kids, all that will change
3) Make sure your wife is on board so she doesn't leave you and take half your shit
Nice for you to do the 180 ;)

Well, at least for 3) there is an easy option, make split finances. You never know what will be in 20, 30 years. If it goes bad, you have the finance site covered. If it is still good, the "richer" one pays more without complaining anyway, so that is a no brainer for me. Its like an emergency fund: As long as you dont need it, you can ignore it, and when you need it, it makes things a lot more easier.


Quote
I think I'll commit. :)
Now what was the word for comparing things and judging them relatively instead of objectivly? :D

Gockie

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7788 on: April 11, 2015, 07:06:27 AM »
Quote
Quote
I think I'll commit. :)
Now what was the word for comparing things and judging them relatively instead of objectivly? :D

Yes, you are absolutely right. Just because someone else makes stupid financial decisions doesn't make it right for me to make bad or stupid ones too on a smaller scale.
But... No hair on fire emergency here. Net worth of 1 mill now. (Maybe ~900k in USD) :D
Hoping to fire or work parttime in 5 years (aged 43)

I was having a look at Olympic tickets for 2016 as I saw the info had come out.... Apparently volleyball's the most in demand sport. Brazil is a very strong country in volleyball, after all.

It would be awesome to go there but that would be so expensive (airfares to South America from Sydney are waaaaay expensive for starters). I did however have the opportunity to watch the Olympic volleyball in Sydney back in 2000. And it might have been part of the reason why I still play today. Watching high level volleyball is so amazing. (High level archery on the other hand... Not a spectator sport!) volleyball is very much both a spectator and participant sport.

Ps. I've just spent the last 40 mins or so reading the story of Dagiffy. Omg...
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/just-woke-up-to-discover-i'm-drowning/
Good luck to him and his wife, hope this train wreck can be fixed.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 07:11:10 AM by Gockie »

Cinder

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7789 on: April 11, 2015, 02:46:16 PM »
Ps. I've just spent the last 40 mins or so reading the story of Dagiffy. Omg...
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/just-woke-up-to-discover-i'm-drowning/
Good luck to him and his wife, hope this train wreck can be fixed.

Yea, I hadn't even considered one angle till near the end from mefla with .. http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/just-woke-up-to-discover-i%27m-drowning/msg621820/#msg621820

I've fallen into that rut before, not understanding why the logical argument didn't work at all... sometimes it's hard to see how the other side IS really thinking.. I wish them the best!

ender

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7790 on: April 11, 2015, 03:42:53 PM »
Ps. I've just spent the last 40 mins or so reading the story of Dagiffy. Omg...
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/just-woke-up-to-discover-i'm-drowning/
Good luck to him and his wife, hope this train wreck can be fixed.

Yea, I hadn't even considered one angle till near the end from mefla with .. http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/just-woke-up-to-discover-i%27m-drowning/msg621820/#msg621820

I've fallen into that rut before, not understanding why the logical argument didn't work at all... sometimes it's hard to see how the other side IS really thinking.. I wish them the best!

Everyone is like that to some extent.

Indexer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7791 on: April 11, 2015, 07:54:01 PM »
One of my friends just announced that she is going to start nursing school next year and to reward her self she is buying a brand new Mercedes GLA, a 30K SUV....I just left the room, I did not want to ruin her moment but wow...

A 30k Mercedes SUV?  I didn't think those all went together in a sentence.  So I looked it up, and yea... 31k for the base model.  That is surprising.  I figured they would cost a lot more.

30k is still insane though.....

Alabaster

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7792 on: April 11, 2015, 10:04:43 PM »
One of my friends just announced that she is going to start nursing school next year and to reward her self she is buying a brand new Mercedes GLA, a 30K SUV....I just left the room, I did not want to ruin her moment but wow...

A 30k Mercedes SUV?  I didn't think those all went together in a sentence.  So I looked it up, and yea... 31k for the base model.  That is surprising.  I figured they would cost a lot more.

30k is still insane though.....

Wait. What? I kind of understand why people buy stupid cars when they graduate from nursing/medical/{generally difficult program} but why would you buy it before you even start?

Malaysia41

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7793 on: April 11, 2015, 10:24:32 PM »
I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.

Not to get into a gender war here but IMO you could replace "normals" with "women" and "mustachians" with "men".  Flame away.

I'm a woman and I tend to fall in the straightforward, looking for solutions and feedback category.  I doubt that there's anything particularly innate to gender that would cause someone to prefer one method or another.  And of course we've seen that women make up a large part of this forum and mustachians in general.

However, there are obviously strong differences in how men and women are socialized and taught to respond to situations, especially conflict.  If someone is used to having feedback presented harshly and without regard to personal feelings (a situation many men are in, because they're taught to ignore their feelings from a very early age), then they can have a hard time recognizing the careful, gentle feedback interspersed within conditional and sympathetic statements.  On the other hand, if someone is used to having feedback presented with care to avoid hurting feelings (a situation many women are in, because they're taught to avoid confrontation from a very early age), then straightforward feedback can feel particularly harsh or even rude.  Personally, I think these socialized gender roles do no one any favors.  It is a valuable life skill to be able to present and understand both gentle and harsh feedback styles and to be flexible in this regard.  It's also a valuable life skill to understand when someone is just venting vs actually asking for advice.  If you're viewing any of these skills as inappropriate or beneath you because they don't fit with your self-constructed gender identity and whatever baggage you've attached to that, I think you're doing yourself a very large disservice by preventing personal growth.

To clarify, I'm not saying All men or women a a certain way.  That's ridiculous.  But anyone who hasn't noticed this trend might have their gender neutrality goggles on

I'm pretty sure intirb is trying to *explain* that trend (to the extent it exists), not deny it. That is, explain it in a way that goes beyond "bitches be crazy."

[edited: clarity]

... beyond 'bitches be crazy.'  LOL.  Wiping my eyes.  Well said.
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valk001

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7794 on: April 12, 2015, 06:57:15 PM »
One of my friends just announced that she is going to start nursing school next year and to reward her self she is buying a brand new Mercedes GLA, a 30K SUV....I just left the room, I did not want to ruin her moment but wow...

A 30k Mercedes SUV?  I didn't think those all went together in a sentence.  So I looked it up, and yea... 31k for the base model.  That is surprising.  I figured they would cost a lot more.

30k is still insane though.....

Wait. What? I kind of understand why people buy stupid cars when they graduate from nursing/medical/{generally difficult program} but why would you buy it before you even start?

I have no Idea.  I was losing my mind when she announced it.  I don't want to rain on her special day...but the reality of her decision is going to hit pretty hard.

Mistah Cash Lion

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7795 on: April 12, 2015, 07:56:02 PM »
I have no Idea.  I was losing my mind when she announced it.  I don't want to rain on her special day...but the reality of her decision is going to hit pretty hard.

Maybe, as her friend, you can gently show her the lack of wisdom this purchase represents? 

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7796 on: April 12, 2015, 08:04:25 PM »
I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.

Not to get into a gender war here but IMO you could replace "normals" with "women" and "mustachians" with "men".  Flame away.

I'm a woman and I tend to fall in the straightforward, looking for solutions and feedback category.  I doubt that there's anything particularly innate to gender that would cause someone to prefer one method or another.  And of course we've seen that women make up a large part of this forum and mustachians in general.

However, there are obviously strong differences in how men and women are socialized and taught to respond to situations, especially conflict.  If someone is used to having feedback presented harshly and without regard to personal feelings (a situation many men are in, because they're taught to ignore their feelings from a very early age), then they can have a hard time recognizing the careful, gentle feedback interspersed within conditional and sympathetic statements.  On the other hand, if someone is used to having feedback presented with care to avoid hurting feelings (a situation many women are in, because they're taught to avoid confrontation from a very early age), then straightforward feedback can feel particularly harsh or even rude.  Personally, I think these socialized gender roles do no one any favors.  It is a valuable life skill to be able to present and understand both gentle and harsh feedback styles and to be flexible in this regard.  It's also a valuable life skill to understand when someone is just venting vs actually asking for advice.  If you're viewing any of these skills as inappropriate or beneath you because they don't fit with your self-constructed gender identity and whatever baggage you've attached to that, I think you're doing yourself a very large disservice by preventing personal growth.

To clarify, I'm not saying All men or women a a certain way.  That's ridiculous.  But anyone who hasn't noticed this trend might have their gender neutrality goggles on

I'm pretty sure intirb is trying to *explain* that trend (to the extent it exists), not deny it. That is, explain it in a way that goes beyond "bitches be crazy."

[edited: clarity]

Ah, makes sense but I still wanted to make sure I wasn't gonna catch flak for something I wasn't trying to say (although I'm fine w/ flak for things I am trying to say).  Still, women be shoppin'.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2015, 10:44:00 PM by dragoncar »

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7797 on: April 12, 2015, 08:31:56 PM »
^ Saved by Dave Chappelle. No one can be mad at you now.

theadvicist

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7798 on: April 13, 2015, 03:33:19 AM »

I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.

Not to get into a gender war here but IMO you could replace "normals" with "women" and "mustachians" with "men".  Flame away.


I dunno. Maybe it's because I'm a woman myself, but when I talk with other women, I find them very receptive to constructive suggestions about how they might improve the things they are complaining about. When I do the same with men I find them very dismissive about the suggestions I make (because they don't want to take advice from a woman?). It seems to me that the men are more likely to defend their past (and therefore future actions) with a 'Yeah, but', whereas women are more likely to say, "hmm, I hadn't thought of that".

But of course, that's just my experience. I don't think it's my gender neutrality goggels though, since I have noticed a difference between the sexes, just the other way around. So maybe the gender of the advice giver is important.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #7799 on: April 13, 2015, 07:08:26 AM »

I think mustachians' often have difficulty understanding "normal" people.

"Normals" voice their problems because they want attention and sympathy, not solutions or suggestions. 

Mustachians voice their problems because they want solutions and feedback, no matter how negative it may be as long as it is constructive.

Not to get into a gender war here but IMO you could replace "normals" with "women" and "mustachians" with "men".  Flame away.


I dunno. Maybe it's because I'm a woman myself, but when I talk with other women, I find them very receptive to constructive suggestions about how they might improve the things they are complaining about. When I do the same with men I find them very dismissive about the suggestions I make (because they don't want to take advice from a woman?). It seems to me that the men are more likely to defend their past (and therefore future actions) with a 'Yeah, but', whereas women are more likely to say, "hmm, I hadn't thought of that".

But of course, that's just my experience. I don't think it's my gender neutrality goggels though, since I have noticed a difference between the sexes, just the other way around. So maybe the gender of the advice giver is important.

you know, I actually think you might be on to something, and maybe it ties in with what other folks were saying re. the way men and women tend to give advice/suggestions.

also, I will openly admit that most of the time, when I talk to my boyfriend about my problems, I'm really just processing my emotions out loud and I DO just want empathy and maybe a hug. like, eventually I might be ready for some constructive suggestions but sometimes I just want to get it out... and oddly if I'm really stressed out about a situation, I do tend to see advice from my boyfriend or male friends as more critical, and advice from other women as more helpful.

plus I just process thoughts and emotions really externally in general, which I think does tend to be more of a woman thing. I think more dudes tend to process that stuff internally, so if they are talking about it out loud the only reason is because they legitimately want advice. (obviously this doesn't apply to 100% of men and 100% of women but I think it's fairly common)

interesting discussion! /foam

haven't heard anything dumb out of my coworkers lately. they are a real mixed bag of solid financial decisions and crazy wastefulness.