Overheard at Work

[DrowsyBee]

A new colleague started today.

It was in the news last night that Australians working overseas will now be required to pay off their HECS (federal student loan debt).

We were chatting about it, I said my husband and I are working to voluntary pay off our HECS by next April (we graduated in 2007 but didn't earn enough to meet the repayment threshold until early 2013).

My colleague, whose eldest child is 16 and two years away from uni herself, still hasn't repaid her HECS.

Good on you for getting rid of your HECS. However, I have HECS and I'm not paying it off any sooner than I need to, as I'm investing instead. I always have the money sitting in an account to pay it immediately if interest is added, but at the moment I'm just investing instead.

That being said, I can imagine your co-worker is not investing or anything like that, either!

[Jack]

Posted by: Cromacster
« on: Today at 09:59:01 AM » Insert Quote
I didn't overhear it, but saw it posted as a quote on a coworkers cube.

Quote
With precise planning and a good 401(k), retirement is only 150 years away.

Wait till they're not around then, go in and cross out that extra "0".

Or add a decimal between the 1 and 5 for real shock factor

Best 401(k) plan ever?

Employee contributes 10% of his salary and employer contributes 1800%!

I firmly believe employers should ditch the percentage match thing and just put in a flat $35,000 (lowering nominal salary accordingly).

[Seppia]

Coworker is getting married.
She is from Europe, he is from here in NYC, where they both live.
They're getting married in Europe, but some 4000 miles away from where she's from for some inexplicable reason.
Honey moon? South Africa obviously.

[Sam E]

Posted by: Cromacster
« on: Today at 09:59:01 AM » Insert Quote
I didn't overhear it, but saw it posted as a quote on a coworkers cube.

Quote
With precise planning and a good 401(k), retirement is only 150 years away.

Wait till they're not around then, go in and cross out that extra "0".

Or add a decimal between the 1 and 5 for real shock factor

Best 401(k) plan ever?

Employee contributes 10% of his salary and employer contributes 1800%!

I firmly believe employers should ditch the percentage match thing and just put in a flat $35,000 (lowering nominal salary accordingly).

I'm all for Mustachianism, but I'm not sure I could live on $2k per year. :P

[infogoon]

One of my coworkers just retired at 52.

"Can you even imagine having enough money to just stop working? I mean, he's my age!" says another coworker with a Lexus, a thirty mile commute, and a summer cottage.

[Cromacster]

Posted by: Cromacster
« on: Today at 09:59:01 AM » Insert Quote
I didn't overhear it, but saw it posted as a quote on a coworkers cube.

Quote
With precise planning and a good 401(k), retirement is only 150 years away.

Wait till they're not around then, go in and cross out that extra "0".

Or add a decimal between the 1 and 5 for real shock factor

Lol, these are both good ideas.  I would consider it if it was someone I knew.  But, as it's megacorp, I have no idea who he is or what he does.

[Ceridwen]

I've listened to an entire morning's worth of conversations about how awesome this CW's new truck is. He traded an F150 worth $25K for a new F250 to pull an RV (also just purchased). He and his wife both drive 20+ miles to work here in the same building.
Separately, because they need time apart.
She drives a van.

That astounds me! OMG.

[cerat0n1a]

I've listened to an entire morning's worth of conversations about how awesome this CW's new truck is. He traded an F150 worth $25K for a new F250 to pull an RV (also just purchased). He and his wife both drive 20+ miles to work here in the same building.
Separately, because they need time apart.
She drives a van.

That astounds me! OMG.

Married couple, friends of mine and former work colleagues, used to commute separately by car ~35 miles each way to work here. Same company, same office, different department, so they didn't see each other during the day anyway. That's anywhere between 45 and 90 minutes drive, depending on traffic. They grew vegetables on their allotment, though, because it would save money and be good for the environment.

[RWD]

I've listened to an entire morning's worth of conversations about how awesome this CW's new truck is. He traded an F150 worth $25K for a new F250 to pull an RV (also just purchased). He and his wife both drive 20+ miles to work here in the same building.
Separately, because they need time apart.
She drives a van.

That astounds me! OMG.

After a quick search on Autotrader I'm going to guess that the F150 was a 2012 XLT Supercab. That has a towing capacity of 11,300 pounds! The F250 with 6.2L engine has a towing capacity of about 12,500 which doesn't seem like much of an improvement to me, so they probably opted for the 6.7L diesel which has a towing capacity of 13,700 to 16,300 pounds. The new truck probably costs around $40k+, depending on how it's configured. I'll assume their new RV trailer must be more than 12,000 lb and is at least a 2015 model. Looking at RV Trader these seem to run $30k+ and $40k+ looks more common.

The 2012 F150 with 6.2L engine gets a combined 14 mpg, and I think it's safe to say the F250 and van would be worse (they often don't publish these numbers). That works out to about $13 per day in fuel (assuming 80 miles of driving)...

Wow. I think these decisions alone will easily cost them $100k+ over the next decade (assuming they don't buy any new vehicles in that time frame). And that's before they've even used the RV. I also haven't even touched on maintenance and insurance costs either...

[runningthroughFIRE]

Posted by: Cromacster
« on: Today at 09:59:01 AM » Insert Quote
I didn't overhear it, but saw it posted as a quote on a coworkers cube.

Quote
With precise planning and a good 401(k), retirement is only 150 years away.

Wait till they're not around then, go in and cross out that extra "0".

Or add a decimal between the 1 and 5 for real shock factor

Best 401(k) plan ever?

Employee contributes 10% of his salary and employer contributes 1800%!

I firmly believe employers should ditch the percentage match thing and just put in a flat $35,000 (lowering nominal salary accordingly).

I'm all for Mustachianism, but I'm not sure I could live on $2k per year. :P

It really doesn't make any sense that companies don't have that as an option, though.  Unless my understanding is incomplete, the employer would get a tax deduction, and the money doesn't even hit the employee's AGI.  Everyone is better off when an employee and the company shift compensation from regular wages to 401(k) contributions.  Worst case, the employer is indifferent because they would have charged the employee's pay as payroll expense (and get a tax deduction anyways), and best case the expense gets reclassified and they don't have to pay FICA/payroll taxes on it.  I could be mistaken, since I don't know the tax rules on retirement accounts from the employer side all that well, but it seems great to me.

[maco]

Posted by: Cromacster
« on: Today at 09:59:01 AM » Insert Quote
I didn't overhear it, but saw it posted as a quote on a coworkers cube.

Quote
With precise planning and a good 401(k), retirement is only 150 years away.

Wait till they're not around then, go in and cross out that extra "0".

Or add a decimal between the 1 and 5 for real shock factor

Best 401(k) plan ever?

Employee contributes 10% of his salary and employer contributes 1800%!

I firmly believe employers should ditch the percentage match thing and just put in a flat $35,000 (lowering nominal salary accordingly).

I'm all for Mustachianism, but I'm not sure I could live on $2k per year. :P

It really doesn't make any sense that companies don't have that as an option, though.  Unless my understanding is incomplete, the employer would get a tax deduction, and the money doesn't even hit the employee's AGI.  Everyone is better off when an employee and the company shift compensation from regular wages to 401(k) contributions.  Worst case, the employer is indifferent because they would have charged the employee's pay as payroll expense (and get a tax deduction anyways), and best case the expense gets reclassified and they don't have to pay FICA/payroll taxes on it.  I could be mistaken, since I don't know the tax rules on retirement accounts from the employer side all that well, but it seems great to me.

With the slight problem that $35,000 is more than median individual income. You'd get a negative paycheck.

[zephyr911]

Married couple, friends of mine and former work colleagues, used to commute separately by car ~35 miles each way to work here. Same company, same office, different department, so they didn't see each other during the day anyway. That's anywhere between 45 and 90 minutes drive, depending on traffic. They grew vegetables on their allotment, though, because it would save money and be good for the environment.

Pennywise, pound-foolish. Even one person driving that much for a job is insane in my world.

[JordanOfGilead]

Our health insurance at work is moving from "everyone has the same plan" to "select your plan from a corporate exchange".

It's amazing how many people can spend hours memorizing obscure stats and relationships for fantasy football, but can't spend twenty minutes figuring out the difference between the Bronze and Gold plans.

I always go with our lowest coverage plan. About 3 months after joining my current company and starting on their insurance, my wife had an emergency room visit that lead to an overnight stay at the hospital. The total bill came out to over $25k, but after insurance covered it we only owed a little under $500. I don't understand somebody that is willing to spend 2-300 per pay period on insurance, when my policy is only $35 out of each check and the coverage is still that good.

Pretty sure they do what you're suggesting. They spend half of their time memorizing FF stats, but when it comes to healthcare, they just pick whichever one they think sounds "safest."

[merula]

Married couple, friends of mine and former work colleagues, used to commute separately by car ~35 miles each way to work here. Same company, same office, different department, so they didn't see each other during the day anyway. That's anywhere between 45 and 90 minutes drive, depending on traffic. They grew vegetables on their allotment, though, because it would save money and be good for the environment.

I used to work with a woman who met her husband at work. When they got married, they custom-built a house 25 miles away. They both only lease cars. He always has to have something black and German, she always has a Lexus or Acura SUV. They have to drive separately because they can't agree on what to listen to. Why can't the passenger put in headphones?!

The really sad part: when they had been dating a few years, he convinced her to give up the beater she had owned and loved since she was 16 in favor of a lease on something "safer".

[runningthroughFIRE]

Posted by: Cromacster
« on: Today at 09:59:01 AM » Insert Quote
I didn't overhear it, but saw it posted as a quote on a coworkers cube.

Quote
With precise planning and a good 401(k), retirement is only 150 years away.

Wait till they're not around then, go in and cross out that extra "0".

Or add a decimal between the 1 and 5 for real shock factor

Best 401(k) plan ever?

Employee contributes 10% of his salary and employer contributes 1800%!

I firmly believe employers should ditch the percentage match thing and just put in a flat $35,000 (lowering nominal salary accordingly).

I'm all for Mustachianism, but I'm not sure I could live on $2k per year. :P

It really doesn't make any sense that companies don't have that as an option, though.  Unless my understanding is incomplete, the employer would get a tax deduction, and the money doesn't even hit the employee's AGI.  Everyone is better off when an employee and the company shift compensation from regular wages to 401(k) contributions.  Worst case, the employer is indifferent because they would have charged the employee's pay as payroll expense (and get a tax deduction anyways), and best case the expense gets reclassified and they don't have to pay FICA/payroll taxes on it.  I could be mistaken, since I don't know the tax rules on retirement accounts from the employer side all that well, but it seems great to me.

With the slight problem that $35,000 is more than median individual income. You'd get a negative paycheck.

Which is why I said option.  Presumably the employee would negotiate it with the company.  This doesn't have to be a full 35K or nothing deal, either.  Both parties would benefit from any amount the employee would have already been paid going into a traditional retirement account rather than ordinary wages.

[mustachepungoeshere]

I've listened to an entire morning's worth of conversations about how awesome this CW's new truck is. He traded an F150 worth $25K for a new F250 to pull an RV (also just purchased). He and his wife both drive 20+ miles to work here in the same building.
Separately, because they need time apart.
She drives a van.

That astounds me! OMG.

Married couple, friends of mine and former work colleagues, used to commute separately by car ~35 miles each way to work here. Same company, same office, different department, so they didn't see each other during the day anyway. That's anywhere between 45 and 90 minutes drive, depending on traffic. They grew vegetables on their allotment, though, because it would save money and be good for the environment.

I have friends who do this. Both driving cars they are still paying off, and already planning to change cars. Every time one of them changes cars, the other one uses it as justification to buy a new one. They are 28, been out of uni since 21, and have each had four new cars in that time.

It's ok though, she has realised something has to give. This time, she told me, he can't have another loan until this one is paid off.

[mm1970]

Posted by: Cromacster
« on: Today at 09:59:01 AM » Insert Quote
I didn't overhear it, but saw it posted as a quote on a coworkers cube.

Quote
With precise planning and a good 401(k), retirement is only 150 years away.

Wait till they're not around then, go in and cross out that extra "0".

Or add a decimal between the 1 and 5 for real shock factor

Best 401(k) plan ever?

Employee contributes 10% of his salary and employer contributes 1800%!

I firmly believe employers should ditch the percentage match thing and just put in a flat $35,000 (lowering nominal salary accordingly).

I prefer my spouse's company.  They put 20% of your salary into a 401k every year.  It's not a match.  (Depending on the year, it can be as low as 15% and as high as 25%.  Regardless, he caps out every year.)

[Fuggled]

I refuse to facepunch you. I looked them up and that sounds pretty cool! Be thankful you don't live in Texas, where the standard plates are specifically designed to be hideously ugly (far worse than CA's standard plates). But, in Texas, you can buy an optional plate that looks a lot better, designed by a for-profit company. Pretty much the only vehicles in Texas that don't have the extra cost (and much more attractive) plates are rental cars. (No, I don't live in TX, but visited there and noticed the huge discrepancy between the "have" and "have not" license plates, and investigated it a little further.)

I've lived in Texas for more than 25 years and don't believe these statements are in anyway based on reality.  Everyone seems to prefer the simple black-on-white general-issue plate.

[DeepEllumStache]

I refuse to facepunch you. I looked them up and that sounds pretty cool! Be thankful you don't live in Texas, where the standard plates are specifically designed to be hideously ugly (far worse than CA's standard plates). But, in Texas, you can buy an optional plate that looks a lot better, designed by a for-profit company. Pretty much the only vehicles in Texas that don't have the extra cost (and much more attractive) plates are rental cars. (No, I don't live in TX, but visited there and noticed the huge discrepancy between the "have" and "have not" license plates, and investigated it a little further.)

I've lived in Texas for more than 25 years and don't believe these statements are in anyway based on reality.  Everyone seems to prefer the simple black-on-white general-issue plate.

The simple black-on-white ones that came out more recently are nice but the standard issue ones I got three years ago were ugly. There's a lot of cars with those still.

[Joggernot]

I refuse to facepunch you. I looked them up and that sounds pretty cool! Be thankful you don't live in Texas, where the standard plates are specifically designed to be hideously ugly (far worse than CA's standard plates). But, in Texas, you can buy an optional plate that looks a lot better, designed by a for-profit company. Pretty much the only vehicles in Texas that don't have the extra cost (and much more attractive) plates are rental cars. (No, I don't live in TX, but visited there and noticed the huge discrepancy between the "have" and "have not" license plates, and investigated it a little further.)

I've lived in Texas for more than 25 years and don't believe these statements are in anyway based on reality.  Everyone seems to prefer the simple black-on-white general-issue plate.

I live here, too, and we all have the standard plates.  Maybe you've only been to Austin?  Try looking at the rest of the state.  It's pretty big to generalize from only a visit or two.

[nanu]

I've listened to an entire morning's worth of conversations about how awesome this CW's new truck is. He traded an F150 worth $25K for a new F250 to pull an RV (also just purchased). He and his wife both drive 20+ miles to work here in the same building.
Separately, because they need time apart.
She drives a van.

That astounds me! OMG.

Married couple, friends of mine and former work colleagues, used to commute separately by car ~35 miles each way to work here. Same company, same office, different department, so they didn't see each other during the day anyway. That's anywhere between 45 and 90 minutes drive, depending on traffic. They grew vegetables on their allotment, though, because it would save money and be good for the environment.

I have friends who do this. Both driving cars they are still paying off, and already planning to change cars. Every time one of them changes cars, the other one uses it as justification to buy a new one. They are 28, been out of uni since 21, and have each had four new cars in that time.

It's ok though, she has realised something has to give. This time, she told me, he can't have another loan until this one is paid off.

I like how she realized something has to give so he can't have another loan until it's paid off... A part of me wonders if that marriage will work out.

[MrMoogle]

I like how she realized something has to give so he can't have another loan until it's paid off... A part of me wonders if that marriage will work out.

Yeah, I saw that too.  Let me fix it:  "We can't have another car loan, ever."

[JordanOfGilead]

I was at a training event out of state for work a couple weeks ago. In a discussion with a guy from another company (29 years old), the subject of retirement came up. I mentioned that I had a plan to be retired before 40, at which point he asked "what's your number? 1 million? A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to..."
I informed him my number was 500,000 and that it would allow a little under 20k/year for me to live off of. His response was "There is no way I could survive on only 20k net a year."
I thought 20,000 was actually a lot more than necessary for my wife and myself to live, but I have hobbies that have been deemed "expensive" by some members of this forum, so I gave myself a little more annual spending money than I thought I would need.

It's amazing how many people think retirement is impossible purely because they don't know how wasteful their spending is.

[Sanne]

I've listened to an entire morning's worth of conversations about how awesome this CW's new truck is. He traded an F150 worth $25K for a new F250 to pull an RV (also just purchased). He and his wife both drive 20+ miles to work here in the same building.
Separately, because they need time apart.
She drives a van.

That astounds me! OMG.

Married couple, friends of mine and former work colleagues, used to commute separately by car ~35 miles each way to work here. Same company, same office, different department, so they didn't see each other during the day anyway. That's anywhere between 45 and 90 minutes drive, depending on traffic. They grew vegetables on their allotment, though, because it would save money and be good for the environment.

I have friends who do this. Both driving cars they are still paying off, and already planning to change cars. Every time one of them changes cars, the other one uses it as justification to buy a new one. They are 28, been out of uni since 21, and have each had four new cars in that time.

It's ok though, she has realised something has to give. This time, she told me, he can't have another loan until this one is paid off.

No way. These people exist??!!! Why and how and.. OMG.

[Tjat]

I was at a training event out of state for work a couple weeks ago. In a discussion with a guy from another company (29 years old), the subject of retirement came up. I mentioned that I had a plan to be retired before 40, at which point he asked "what's your number? 1 million? A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to..."
I informed him my number was 500,000 and that it would allow a little under 20k/year for me to live off of. His response was "There is no way I could survive on only 20k net a year."
I thought 20,000 was actually a lot more than necessary for my wife and myself to live, but I have hobbies that have been deemed "expensive" by some members of this forum, so I gave myself a little more annual spending money than I thought I would need.

It's amazing how many people think retirement is impossible purely because they don't know how wasteful their spending is.

Wait, do you know you only need 20k per year or are you estimating? You shouldn't have to "add a little more" for your hobbies if you know exactly what they cost

[RWD]

I was at a training event out of state for work a couple weeks ago. In a discussion with a guy from another company (29 years old), the subject of retirement came up. I mentioned that I had a plan to be retired before 40, at which point he asked "what's your number? 1 million? A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to..."
I informed him my number was 500,000 and that it would allow a little under 20k/year for me to live off of. His response was "There is no way I could survive on only 20k net a year."
I thought 20,000 was actually a lot more than necessary for my wife and myself to live, but I have hobbies that have been deemed "expensive" by some members of this forum, so I gave myself a little more annual spending money than I thought I would need.

It's amazing how many people think retirement is impossible purely because they don't know how wasteful their spending is.

Wait, do you know you only need 20k per year or are you estimating? You shouldn't have to "add a little more" for your hobbies if you know exactly what they cost

He's probably referring to this thread.

[Merrie]

Married couple, friends of mine and former work colleagues, used to commute separately by car ~35 miles each way to work here. Same company, same office, different department, so they didn't see each other during the day anyway. That's anywhere between 45 and 90 minutes drive, depending on traffic. They grew vegetables on their allotment, though, because it would save money and be good for the environment.

Pennywise, pound-foolish. Even one person driving that much for a job is insane in my world.

I have married friends who up until recently worked in different departments at the same large university and commuted at least 30 miles there. They'd frequently work different shifts (by 2 hours or so; he might work 8-4 and she was 8-6 because she worked four 10s) so they would drive separately. (I would totally sit and read a book, catch up on my Internet, etc. for two hours to save 60 miles worth of gas a couple times a week.) Then they had a baby, so needed to make some cutbacks, and therefore started "carpooling" sometimes.

[TomTX]

I refuse to facepunch you. I looked them up and that sounds pretty cool! Be thankful you don't live in Texas, where the standard plates are specifically designed to be hideously ugly (far worse than CA's standard plates). But, in Texas, you can buy an optional plate that looks a lot better, designed by a for-profit company. Pretty much the only vehicles in Texas that don't have the extra cost (and much more attractive) plates are rental cars. (No, I don't live in TX, but visited there and noticed the huge discrepancy between the "have" and "have not" license plates, and investigated it a little further.)

I've lived in Texas for more than 25 years and don't believe these statements are in anyway based on reality.  Everyone seems to prefer the simple black-on-white general-issue plate.

That's only been the standard plate briefly, and it's fine. The previous "pastel blur"* plate sucked. Hard. The prior "cowboy and shuttle" one was fine.

*Pastel because they used shitty ink and it faded out in the sun.

[greenmimama]

Sometimes my husband and I commute while not in the same vehicle, like today, I drove the van with our 3 children in it to grandmas house and came 20 minutes later by bicycle ;)

We make fun of my inlaws all the time, they are always drive as many vehicles as they can, it's just ridiculous!

[Wilson Hall]

I've listened to an entire morning's worth of conversations about how awesome this CW's new truck is. He traded an F150 worth $25K for a new F250 to pull an RV (also just purchased). He and his wife both drive 20+ miles to work here in the same building.
Separately, because they need time apart.
She drives a van.

That astounds me! OMG.

Married couple, friends of mine and former work colleagues, used to commute separately by car ~35 miles each way to work here. Same company, same office, different department, so they didn't see each other during the day anyway. That's anywhere between 45 and 90 minutes drive, depending on traffic. They grew vegetables on their allotment, though, because it would save money and be good for the environment.

I have friends who do this. Both driving cars they are still paying off, and already planning to change cars. Every time one of them changes cars, the other one uses it as justification to buy a new one. They are 28, been out of uni since 21, and have each had four new cars in that time.

It's ok though, she has realised something has to give. This time, she told me, he can't have another loan until this one is paid off.

No way. These people exist??!!! Why and how and.. OMG.

Seriously. I'm over 45 and have only owned 4 cars ever, and even that seems like a lot for the MMM community.

[JordanOfGilead]

I was at a training event out of state for work a couple weeks ago. In a discussion with a guy from another company (29 years old), the subject of retirement came up. I mentioned that I had a plan to be retired before 40, at which point he asked "what's your number? 1 million? A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to..."
I informed him my number was 500,000 and that it would allow a little under 20k/year for me to live off of. His response was "There is no way I could survive on only 20k net a year."
I thought 20,000 was actually a lot more than necessary for my wife and myself to live, but I have hobbies that have been deemed "expensive" by some members of this forum, so I gave myself a little more annual spending money than I thought I would need.

It's amazing how many people think retirement is impossible purely because they don't know how wasteful their spending is.

Wait, do you know you only need 20k per year or are you estimating? You shouldn't have to "add a little more" for your hobbies if you know exactly what they cost

He's probably referring to this thread.

According to Mint, My spending in the last twelve months has totaled just under 21,000. Only 16,000 of that is categorized as items that are essential to life (food, utilities, housing, etc.). Pretty sure I could, over the next 14 years, find a way to shave another 1000 off of my annual spending. I track my money carefully and know exactly where every penny goes. I jhust have some residual spending habits from my pre-mustachian days that I'm still trying to shake off.
But yes, I know for a fact that my wife and I can survive comfortably on less than 20k annually in our area.

[RWD]

I was at a training event out of state for work a couple weeks ago. In a discussion with a guy from another company (29 years old), the subject of retirement came up. I mentioned that I had a plan to be retired before 40, at which point he asked "what's your number? 1 million? A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to..."
I informed him my number was 500,000 and that it would allow a little under 20k/year for me to live off of. His response was "There is no way I could survive on only 20k net a year."
I thought 20,000 was actually a lot more than necessary for my wife and myself to live, but I have hobbies that have been deemed "expensive" by some members of this forum, so I gave myself a little more annual spending money than I thought I would need.

It's amazing how many people think retirement is impossible purely because they don't know how wasteful their spending is.

Wait, do you know you only need 20k per year or are you estimating? You shouldn't have to "add a little more" for your hobbies if you know exactly what they cost

He's probably referring to this thread.

According to Mint, My spending in the last twelve months has totaled just under 21,000. Only 16,000 of that is categorized as items that are essential to life (food, utilities, housing, etc.). Pretty sure I could, over the next 14 years, find a way to shave another 1000 off of my annual spending. I track my money carefully and know exactly where every penny goes. I jhust have some residual spending habits from my pre-mustachian days that I'm still trying to shake off.
But yes, I know for a fact that my wife and I can survive comfortably on less than 20k annually in our area.

I'm impressed your expenses are so low. We're aiming for under $30k. I don't think we could hit $21k without our housing being essentially free. How did you account for the ~$10k depreciation over the two years you owned your Genesis? Since you traded it in before paying it off just counting the payments as lost probably works out correctly for depreciation + interest. I like to track depreciation as a separate expense in GnuCash by checking KBB once per year. This is also necessary for our car that doesn't have a payment (assuming I want to count the value as part of my net worth).

[JordanOfGilead]

I was at a training event out of state for work a couple weeks ago. In a discussion with a guy from another company (29 years old), the subject of retirement came up. I mentioned that I had a plan to be retired before 40, at which point he asked "what's your number? 1 million? A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to..."
I informed him my number was 500,000 and that it would allow a little under 20k/year for me to live off of. His response was "There is no way I could survive on only 20k net a year."
I thought 20,000 was actually a lot more than necessary for my wife and myself to live, but I have hobbies that have been deemed "expensive" by some members of this forum, so I gave myself a little more annual spending money than I thought I would need.

It's amazing how many people think retirement is impossible purely because they don't know how wasteful their spending is.

Wait, do you know you only need 20k per year or are you estimating? You shouldn't have to "add a little more" for your hobbies if you know exactly what they cost

He's probably referring to this thread.

According to Mint, My spending in the last twelve months has totaled just under 21,000. Only 16,000 of that is categorized as items that are essential to life (food, utilities, housing, etc.). Pretty sure I could, over the next 14 years, find a way to shave another 1000 off of my annual spending. I track my money carefully and know exactly where every penny goes. I jhust have some residual spending habits from my pre-mustachian days that I'm still trying to shake off.
But yes, I know for a fact that my wife and I can survive comfortably on less than 20k annually in our area.

I'm impressed your expenses are so low. We're aiming for under $30k. I don't think we could hit $21k without our housing being essentially free. How did you account for the ~$10k depreciation over the two years you owned your Genesis? Since you traded it in before paying it off just counting the payments as lost probably works out correctly for depreciation + interest. I like to track depreciation as a separate expense in GnuCash by checking KBB once per year. This is also necessary for our car that doesn't have a payment (assuming I want to count the value as part of my net worth).

I don't account for car payments in living expenses. I instead categorize them as "debt payments." Maintenance and fuel costs go to living expenses, but debt isn't a long term plan and if I stay on track to be debt-free by 2018, it definitely won't be a part of my expenses in retirement. Basically, I bit the bullet on depreciation and cut my losses.

As far as the cost of living for my wife and I is concerned, we have always been pretty bare bones. Our biggest spending problems are junk food and car stuff. We rent a small duplex from her grandfather for $600/month in an area of Ohio with a lower than average cost of living. We live 7 miles from my work and less than 1 from my wife's. Keep the house warm in the summer and cool in the winter. Don't party, don't travel much.
It's a lot easier to keep the expenses low when your area only rates an 87 on the cost of living index (with 100 being the national average).

[RWD]

I was at a training event out of state for work a couple weeks ago. In a discussion with a guy from another company (29 years old), the subject of retirement came up. I mentioned that I had a plan to be retired before 40, at which point he asked "what's your number? 1 million? A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to..."
I informed him my number was 500,000 and that it would allow a little under 20k/year for me to live off of. His response was "There is no way I could survive on only 20k net a year."
I thought 20,000 was actually a lot more than necessary for my wife and myself to live, but I have hobbies that have been deemed "expensive" by some members of this forum, so I gave myself a little more annual spending money than I thought I would need.

It's amazing how many people think retirement is impossible purely because they don't know how wasteful their spending is.

Wait, do you know you only need 20k per year or are you estimating? You shouldn't have to "add a little more" for your hobbies if you know exactly what they cost

He's probably referring to this thread.

According to Mint, My spending in the last twelve months has totaled just under 21,000. Only 16,000 of that is categorized as items that are essential to life (food, utilities, housing, etc.). Pretty sure I could, over the next 14 years, find a way to shave another 1000 off of my annual spending. I track my money carefully and know exactly where every penny goes. I jhust have some residual spending habits from my pre-mustachian days that I'm still trying to shake off.
But yes, I know for a fact that my wife and I can survive comfortably on less than 20k annually in our area.

I'm impressed your expenses are so low. We're aiming for under $30k. I don't think we could hit $21k without our housing being essentially free. How did you account for the ~$10k depreciation over the two years you owned your Genesis? Since you traded it in before paying it off just counting the payments as lost probably works out correctly for depreciation + interest. I like to track depreciation as a separate expense in GnuCash by checking KBB once per year. This is also necessary for our car that doesn't have a payment (assuming I want to count the value as part of my net worth).

I don't account for car payments in living expenses. I instead categorize them as "debt payments." Maintenance and fuel costs go to living expenses, but debt isn't a long term plan and if I stay on track to be debt-free by 2018, it definitely won't be a part of my expenses in retirement. Basically, I bit the bullet on depreciation and cut my losses.

As far as the cost of living for my wife and I is concerned, we have always been pretty bare bones. Our biggest spending problems are junk food and car stuff. We rent a small duplex from her grandfather for $600/month in an area of Ohio with a lower than average cost of living. We live 7 miles from my work and less than 1 from my wife's. Keep the house warm in the summer and cool in the winter. Don't party, don't travel much.
It's a lot easier to keep the expenses low when your area only rates an 87 on the cost of living index (with 100 being the national average).

Paying back debt is just a delayed payment on an expense. So either you categorize the initial debt as an expense all at once or the repayments themselves as the expense. I see what you're saying with extrapolating your continuing expenses though. But at some point I presume you will need/want to buy another car. At that time I would expect you to either treat the whole purchase as an expense immediately or spread it out over your ownership as it depreciates. I suppose you could reduce this expense to zero by buying classic cars that don't depreciate and never buy a car for more than you sold the last one for...

The cost of living index in our city is 95.

[JordanOfGilead]

I was at a training event out of state for work a couple weeks ago. In a discussion with a guy from another company (29 years old), the subject of retirement came up. I mentioned that I had a plan to be retired before 40, at which point he asked "what's your number? 1 million? A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to..."
I informed him my number was 500,000 and that it would allow a little under 20k/year for me to live off of. His response was "There is no way I could survive on only 20k net a year."
I thought 20,000 was actually a lot more than necessary for my wife and myself to live, but I have hobbies that have been deemed "expensive" by some members of this forum, so I gave myself a little more annual spending money than I thought I would need.

It's amazing how many people think retirement is impossible purely because they don't know how wasteful their spending is.

Wait, do you know you only need 20k per year or are you estimating? You shouldn't have to "add a little more" for your hobbies if you know exactly what they cost

He's probably referring to this thread.

According to Mint, My spending in the last twelve months has totaled just under 21,000. Only 16,000 of that is categorized as items that are essential to life (food, utilities, housing, etc.). Pretty sure I could, over the next 14 years, find a way to shave another 1000 off of my annual spending. I track my money carefully and know exactly where every penny goes. I jhust have some residual spending habits from my pre-mustachian days that I'm still trying to shake off.
But yes, I know for a fact that my wife and I can survive comfortably on less than 20k annually in our area.

I'm impressed your expenses are so low. We're aiming for under $30k. I don't think we could hit $21k without our housing being essentially free. How did you account for the ~$10k depreciation over the two years you owned your Genesis? Since you traded it in before paying it off just counting the payments as lost probably works out correctly for depreciation + interest. I like to track depreciation as a separate expense in GnuCash by checking KBB once per year. This is also necessary for our car that doesn't have a payment (assuming I want to count the value as part of my net worth).

I don't account for car payments in living expenses. I instead categorize them as "debt payments." Maintenance and fuel costs go to living expenses, but debt isn't a long term plan and if I stay on track to be debt-free by 2018, it definitely won't be a part of my expenses in retirement. Basically, I bit the bullet on depreciation and cut my losses.

As far as the cost of living for my wife and I is concerned, we have always been pretty bare bones. Our biggest spending problems are junk food and car stuff. We rent a small duplex from her grandfather for $600/month in an area of Ohio with a lower than average cost of living. We live 7 miles from my work and less than 1 from my wife's. Keep the house warm in the summer and cool in the winter. Don't party, don't travel much.
It's a lot easier to keep the expenses low when your area only rates an 87 on the cost of living index (with 100 being the national average).

Paying back debt is just a delayed payment on an expense. So either you categorize the initial debt as an expense all at once or the repayments themselves as the expense. I see what you're saying with extrapolating your continuing expenses though. But at some point I presume you will need/want to buy another car. At that time I would expect you to either treat the whole purchase as an expense immediately or spread it out over your ownership as it depreciates. I suppose you could reduce this expense to zero by buying classic cars that don't depreciate and never buy a car for more than you sold the last one for...

The cost of living index in our city is 95.

All of my debt was taken on before I discovered MMM and is being paid off with the large chunk of my take-home pay that will go into savings once it is gone, so I still don't categorize it as an expense associated with the "cost of living," it's more of a delay on my savings.
My plan for the future is to only buy used cars that have nearly bottomed out in depreciation. My last used purchase was for $200 more than I sold a failed project (which was purchased before I started closely tracking my money) for. Basically, I plan on treating it as an upfront one time expense and not as a regular part of my annual expenses. As long as I keep it under the difference between our CoL and my budget, it shouldn't be an issue.

[dragoncar]

I was at a training event out of state for work a couple weeks ago. In a discussion with a guy from another company (29 years old), the subject of retirement came up. I mentioned that I had a plan to be retired before 40, at which point he asked "what's your number? 1 million? A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to..."
I informed him my number was 500,000 and that it would allow a little under 20k/year for me to live off of. His response was "There is no way I could survive on only 20k net a year."
I thought 20,000 was actually a lot more than necessary for my wife and myself to live, but I have hobbies that have been deemed "expensive" by some members of this forum, so I gave myself a little more annual spending money than I thought I would need.

It's amazing how many people think retirement is impossible purely because they don't know how wasteful their spending is.

Wait, do you know you only need 20k per year or are you estimating? You shouldn't have to "add a little more" for your hobbies if you know exactly what they cost

He's probably referring to this thread.

According to Mint, My spending in the last twelve months has totaled just under 21,000. Only 16,000 of that is categorized as items that are essential to life (food, utilities, housing, etc.). Pretty sure I could, over the next 14 years, find a way to shave another 1000 off of my annual spending. I track my money carefully and know exactly where every penny goes. I jhust have some residual spending habits from my pre-mustachian days that I'm still trying to shake off.
But yes, I know for a fact that my wife and I can survive comfortably on less than 20k annually in our area.

I'm impressed your expenses are so low. We're aiming for under $30k. I don't think we could hit $21k without our housing being essentially free. How did you account for the ~$10k depreciation over the two years you owned your Genesis? Since you traded it in before paying it off just counting the payments as lost probably works out correctly for depreciation + interest. I like to track depreciation as a separate expense in GnuCash by checking KBB once per year. This is also necessary for our car that doesn't have a payment (assuming I want to count the value as part of my net worth).

I don't account for car payments in living expenses. I instead categorize them as "debt payments." Maintenance and fuel costs go to living expenses, but debt isn't a long term plan and if I stay on track to be debt-free by 2018, it definitely won't be a part of my expenses in retirement. Basically, I bit the bullet on depreciation and cut my losses.

As far as the cost of living for my wife and I is concerned, we have always been pretty bare bones. Our biggest spending problems are junk food and car stuff. We rent a small duplex from her grandfather for $600/month in an area of Ohio with a lower than average cost of living. We live 7 miles from my work and less than 1 from my wife's. Keep the house warm in the summer and cool in the winter. Don't party, don't travel much.
It's a lot easier to keep the expenses low when your area only rates an 87 on the cost of living index (with 100 being the national average).

Paying back debt is just a delayed payment on an expense. So either you categorize the initial debt as an expense all at once or the repayments themselves as the expense. I see what you're saying with extrapolating your continuing expenses though. But at some point I presume you will need/want to buy another car. At that time I would expect you to either treat the whole purchase as an expense immediately or spread it out over your ownership as it depreciates. I suppose you could reduce this expense to zero by buying classic cars that don't depreciate and never buy a car for more than you sold the last one for...

The cost of living index in our city is 95.

All of my debt was taken on before I discovered MMM and is being paid off with the large chunk of my take-home pay that will go into savings once it is gone, so I still don't categorize it as an expense associated with the "cost of living," it's more of a delay on my savings.
My plan for the future is to only buy used cars that have nearly bottomed out in depreciation. My last used purchase was for $200 more than I sold a failed project (which was purchased before I started closely tracking my money) for. Basically, I plan on treating it as an upfront one time expense and not as a regular part of my annual expenses. As long as I keep it under the difference between our CoL and my budget, it shouldn't be an issue.

I think this approach makes sense for personal use, it can just throw off people who are trying to compete budget with you.  If you just add in a monthly amortization of car replacement and maintenance costs, it's probably more comparable -- this will likely be very low if you plan to buy used cars, but you might currently be in a situation where you are not counting the new car expense while also ignoring maintenance that goes with a used car (because your new car still has very low maintenance).

Similar issues for me with my mortgage.  It's not like I'm going to buy a new house every 30 years but at the same time it doesn't make sense to expect my mortgage to last indefinitely.  The approach I use is to just assume I pay off the mortgage before retirement (although I may not, it's always an option)

[astvilla]

I've always wondered exactly who you guys work w/ and where you find all these people who don't manage money well.  Sometimes I thought you were making all these people up.

Well I was speaking with someone who has 2 kids and is divorced in mid-40s.  Complains about lack of child support from ex (what woman in those situations doesn't?).  Recently sold house for $10K more than what she expected.  Complains about kid not doing well in school and the school system making it hard for her kid to do well. 

Instead of using the 10K to save for child's college, or to hire a tutor to help kid do well, or save for retirement, said going to spend 6.5K of it on plastic surgery for eyes and isn't telling anyone.  I don't scold people in these conversations, I just play along and don't criticize but talk about priorities.  At least she's taking free classes for job training but I don't think it'll lead to any real job (using word, computers, etc).  But she does look real healthy and decent looking, perhaps it's a worthy investment to snag a rich husband.

Another woman I know took kids to concerts, NASCAR events.  I know this person is barely scraping by, making near minimum wage.  It's tough I know and maybe for real poor people, these activities help make them feel "middle" class and escape the poverty they're in but people really need to prioritize and get their head straightened out.

[mm1970]

I've always wondered exactly who you guys work w/ and where you find all these people who don't manage money well.  Sometimes I thought you were making all these people up.

Well I was speaking with someone who has 2 kids and is divorced in mid-40s.  Complains about lack of child support from ex (what woman in those situations doesn't?).  Recently sold house for $10K more than what she expected.  Complains about kid not doing well in school and the school system making it hard for her kid to do well. 

Instead of using the 10K to save for child's college, or to hire a tutor to help kid do well, or save for retirement, said going to spend 6.5K of it on plastic surgery for eyes and isn't telling anyone.  I don't scold people in these conversations, I just play along and don't criticize but talk about priorities.  At least she's taking free classes for job training but I don't think it'll lead to any real job (using word, computers, etc).  But she does look real healthy and decent looking, perhaps it's a worthy investment to snag a rich husband.

Another woman I know took kids to concerts, NASCAR events.  I know this person is barely scraping by, making near minimum wage.  It's tough I know and maybe for real poor people, these activities help make them feel "middle" class and escape the poverty they're in but people really need to prioritize and get their head straightened out.

I was on FB this weekend (I know, shoot me).  It tells you when a friend comments on something.

Well, I have a HS friend (who is married to another HS friend).  They are 45 and dinks.  So they like to travel, and apparently they enjoy going on cruises.  I often see cruise pictures. She's an accountant, he's...? I don't know, they are probably doing fine.  She commented on a site that questioned "deposits for cruises", and the question was multiple choice: A. having lower deposits would definitely increase my chances of booking (like 5% deposit), B. would only make it slightly more likely to book it, because I'll have to pay it off eventually anyway, or C: wouldn't affect me at all because I pay upfront.

On a whim, I read the comments.  (My friend picked B).  Holy cow, the number of A's, and not only that, the comments!  It seems like the vast majority of people go on these cruises with their families and just charge it, and cannot afford it.  Because basically, they say so in the comments.  Sheesh.

[dragoncar]

I've always wondered exactly who you guys work w/ and where you find all these people who don't manage money well.  Sometimes I thought you were making all these people up.

Well I was speaking with someone who has 2 kids and is divorced in mid-40s.  Complains about lack of child support from ex (what woman in those situations doesn't?).  Recently sold house for $10K more than what she expected.  Complains about kid not doing well in school and the school system making it hard for her kid to do well. 

Instead of using the 10K to save for child's college, or to hire a tutor to help kid do well, or save for retirement, said going to spend 6.5K of it on plastic surgery for eyes and isn't telling anyone.  I don't scold people in these conversations, I just play along and don't criticize but talk about priorities.  At least she's taking free classes for job training but I don't think it'll lead to any real job (using word, computers, etc).  But she does look real healthy and decent looking, perhaps it's a worthy investment to snag a rich husband.

Another woman I know took kids to concerts, NASCAR events.  I know this person is barely scraping by, making near minimum wage.  It's tough I know and maybe for real poor people, these activities help make them feel "middle" class and escape the poverty they're in but people really need to prioritize and get their head straightened out.

I was on FB this weekend (I know, shoot me).  It tells you when a friend comments on something.

Well, I have a HS friend (who is married to another HS friend).  They are 45 and dinks.  So they like to travel, and apparently they enjoy going on cruises.  I often see cruise pictures. She's an accountant, he's...? I don't know, they are probably doing fine.  She commented on a site that questioned "deposits for cruises", and the question was multiple choice: A. having lower deposits would definitely increase my chances of booking (like 5% deposit), B. would only make it slightly more likely to book it, because I'll have to pay it off eventually anyway, or C: wouldn't affect me at all because I pay upfront.

On a whim, I read the comments.  (My friend picked B).  Holy cow, the number of A's, and not only that, the comments!  It seems like the vast majority of people go on these cruises with their families and just charge it, and cannot afford it.  Because basically, they say so in the comments.  Sheesh.

I'd pick A because if my plans change for any reason, I will lose less money (deposit usually becomes non refundable in stages as the trip approaches).  If there was no deposit I'd book a ton of stuf really far in advance to lock in a super deal even if I don't know for sure I can get the time off

[mm1970]

okay, not heard at work but seen at work.  Lots of foreclosures in this town, still.  Occasionally I browse homes.

I'm trying to figure out how you end up $698,000 in arrears in 7 years on a bank note of $1M.

Ah, and if I look further, their prop taxes are less than $1000, which means they have owned the house for a VERY long time.  (Purchase price would have been less than $100,000.)  Someone took out a crap ton of equity in their home.

[dragoncar]

okay, not heard at work but seen at work.  Lots of foreclosures in this town, still.  Occasionally I browse homes.

I'm trying to figure out how you end up $698,000 in arrears in 7 years on a bank note of $1M.

Ah, and if I look further, their prop taxes are less than $1000, which means they have owned the house for a VERY long time.  (Purchase price would have been less than $100,000.)  Someone took out a crap ton of equity in their home.

Fatcat lived in a >$1M house for free for over 7 years.

[mizzourah2006]

Never had one of these to talk about until the last 2 days. We moved to a new building, so now I sit next to one of the director's on another team.

I've overheard him calling multiple companies. Here is what I have overheard. Also to add a little context.

He is probably 46-48, a working professional and we live in a really low COLA.

1. Called to refinance his new home loan. Said it was a VA jumbo loan with a balance of 550k, mentioned that he didn't put much if anything down, but had 100k to add to it as part of the refi because he sold his previous home.
2. Talked about his Porsche and how it had trouble handling the rain we are having here.
3. Talked about how he was getting ready to buy a Jeep Wrangler, but had to add a Wench, a Lift Kit, and a Snorkel if he got it.
4. Called to check a hospital bill payment and asked the lady on the phone to confirm his payment or lack thereof would have no impact on his credit, because it was "perfect".

I like having good credit as much as the next guy, but the only time I could see fighting for perfect credit is if you were trying to heavily leverage it.

2 days ago when he called the mortgage company I was wondering why a person approaching 50 didn't have enough money to put much of anything down on his 550k+ house. Then I heard him talk about his Porsche, want of a pimped out Jeep Wrangler and obsession with perfect credit and now I think I get it.

[Vertical Mode]

Never had one of these to talk about until the last 2 days. We moved to a new building, so now I sit next to one of the director's on another team.

I've overheard him calling multiple companies. Here is what I have overheard. Also to add a little context.

He is probably 46-48, a working professional and we live in a really low COLA.

1. Called to refinance his new home loan. Said it was a VA jumbo loan with a balance of 550k, mentioned that he didn't put much if anything down, but had 100k to add to it as part of the refi because he sold his previous home.
2. Talked about his Porsche and how it had trouble handling the rain we are having here.
3. Talked about how he was getting ready to buy a Jeep Wrangler, but had to add a Wench, a Lift Kit, and a Snorkel if he got it.
4. Called to check a hospital bill payment and asked the lady on the phone to confirm his payment or lack thereof would have no impact on his credit, because it was "perfect".

I like having good credit as much as the next guy, but the only time I could see fighting for perfect credit is if you were trying to heavily leverage it.

2 days ago when he called the mortgage company I was wondering why a person approaching 50 didn't have enough money to put much of anything down on his 550k+ house. Then I heard him talk about his Porsche, want of a pimped out Jeep Wrangler and obsession with perfect credit and now I think I get it.

You'd be amazed how many people don't realize those dots are all connected. I'm willing to bet that Jeep would remain a pavement queen even after adding all those accessories to it. Clearly he needs that "perfect" credit because it's central to the way he operates.

[BDWW]

Never had one of these to talk about until the last 2 days. We moved to a new building, so now I sit next to one of the director's on another team.

I've overheard him calling multiple companies. Here is what I have overheard. Also to add a little context.

He is probably 46-48, a working professional and we live in a really low COLA.

1. Called to refinance his new home loan. Said it was a VA jumbo loan with a balance of 550k, mentioned that he didn't put much if anything down, but had 100k to add to it as part of the refi because he sold his previous home.
2. Talked about his Porsche and how it had trouble handling the rain we are having here.
3. Talked about how he was getting ready to buy a Jeep Wrangler, but had to add a Wench, a Lift Kit, and a Snorkel if he got it.
4. Called to check a hospital bill payment and asked the lady on the phone to confirm his payment or lack thereof would have no impact on his credit, because it was "perfect".

I like having good credit as much as the next guy, but the only time I could see fighting for perfect credit is if you were trying to heavily leverage it.

2 days ago when he called the mortgage company I was wondering why a person approaching 50 didn't have enough money to put much of anything down on his 550k+ house. Then I heard him talk about his Porsche, want of a pimped out Jeep Wrangler and obsession with perfect credit and now I think I get it.

I'm curious about this wench? Is that an option for other cars, or just Jeeps? Not sure the wife would approve though...

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Never had one of these to talk about until the last 2 days. We moved to a new building, so now I sit next to one of the director's on another team.

I've overheard him calling multiple companies. Here is what I have overheard. Also to add a little context.

He is probably 46-48, a working professional and we live in a really low COLA.

1. Called to refinance his new home loan. Said it was a VA jumbo loan with a balance of 550k, mentioned that he didn't put much if anything down, but had 100k to add to it as part of the refi because he sold his previous home.
2. Talked about his Porsche and how it had trouble handling the rain we are having here.
3. Talked about how he was getting ready to buy a Jeep Wrangler, but had to add a Wench, a Lift Kit, and a Snorkel if he got it.
4. Called to check a hospital bill payment and asked the lady on the phone to confirm his payment or lack thereof would have no impact on his credit, because it was "perfect".

I like having good credit as much as the next guy, but the only time I could see fighting for perfect credit is if you were trying to heavily leverage it.

2 days ago when he called the mortgage company I was wondering why a person approaching 50 didn't have enough money to put much of anything down on his 550k+ house. Then I heard him talk about his Porsche, want of a pimped out Jeep Wrangler and obsession with perfect credit and now I think I get it.

I'm curious about this wench? Is that an option for other cars, or just Jeeps? Not sure the wife would approve though...

Avast, me hearty! 'Tis mandatory for those who live the pirate lifestyle. Shiver me timbers, but it's going to be an expensive add-on. A wench-- 'tisn't the wench that's expensive so much as the rum and the courtin' and the bling. That be costin' an arm and a leg, and most of us have but one after years of plunderin' and pillagin'. But some have no other way to get both the chest, AND the booty.

[Joggernot]

Never had one of these to talk about until the last 2 days. We moved to a new building, so now I sit next to one of the director's on another team.

I've overheard him calling multiple companies. Here is what I have overheard. Also to add a little context.

He is probably 46-48, a working professional and we live in a really low COLA.

1. Called to refinance his new home loan. Said it was a VA jumbo loan with a balance of 550k, mentioned that he didn't put much if anything down, but had 100k to add to it as part of the refi because he sold his previous home.
2. Talked about his Porsche and how it had trouble handling the rain we are having here.
3. Talked about how he was getting ready to buy a Jeep Wrangler, but had to add a Wench, a Lift Kit, and a Snorkel if he got it.
4. Called to check a hospital bill payment and asked the lady on the phone to confirm his payment or lack thereof would have no impact on his credit, because it was "perfect".

I like having good credit as much as the next guy, but the only time I could see fighting for perfect credit is if you were trying to heavily leverage it.

2 days ago when he called the mortgage company I was wondering why a person approaching 50 didn't have enough money to put much of anything down on his 550k+ house. Then I heard him talk about his Porsche, want of a pimped out Jeep Wrangler and obsession with perfect credit and now I think I get it.

I'm curious about this wench? Is that an option for other cars, or just Jeeps? Not sure the wife would approve though...

Avast, me hearty! 'Tis mandatory for those who live the pirate lifestyle. Shiver me timbers, but it's going to be an expensive add-on. A wench-- 'tisn't the wench that's expensive so much as the rum and the courtin' and the bling. That be costin' an arm and a leg, and most of us have but one after years of plunderin' and pillagin'. But some have no other way to get both the chest, AND the booty.

My DW bought herself a t-shirt with a bawdy lady and the words "Wench of the Week".  Looked great and got her lots of comments.

[frugalnacho]

...
3. Talked about how he was getting ready to buy a Jeep Wrangler, but had to add a Wench, a Lift Kit, and a Snorkel if he got it.
...

[MandalayVA]

I was waiting for the "wench" responses and y'all did not disappoint.  :D

Just now I was having two coworkers' conversation inflicted on me, and it struck me how many of them have part-time jobs in addition to this job.  This is not a HCOL area and many of them have been here a lot longer than I have so they should be making more money than I do, but one in the conversation said "you need two jobs just to LIVE!" and the other agreed, then proceeded to show the first one new boots she'd just bought.  I just shook my head and checked my Wealthfront account balances, all of which are showing a nice amount of FU money.

[druth]

I was waiting for the "wench" responses and y'all did not disappoint.  :D

Just now I was having two coworkers' conversation inflicted on me, and it struck me how many of them have part-time jobs in addition to this job.  This is not a HCOL area and many of them have been here a lot longer than I have so they should be making more money than I do, but one in the conversation said "you need two jobs just to LIVE!" and the other agreed, then proceeded to show the first one new boots she'd just bought.  I just shook my head and checked my Wealthfront account balances, all of which are showing a nice amount of FU money.

To be fair, a lot of people here have two jobs, but probably for different reasons. :)

[Eric222]

I was waiting for the "wench" responses and y'all did not disappoint.  :D

Just now I was having two coworkers' conversation inflicted on me, and it struck me how many of them have part-time jobs in addition to this job.  This is not a HCOL area and many of them have been here a lot longer than I have so they should be making more money than I do, but one in the conversation said "you need two jobs just to LIVE!" and the other agreed, then proceeded to show the first one new boots she'd just bought.  I just shook my head and checked my Wealthfront account balances, all of which are showing a nice amount of FU money.

To be fair, a lot of people here have two jobs, but probably for different reasons. :)

I'd be shocked to see anyone here say that you need a second job just to LIVE!!!!! :)