Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 13253337 times)

jinga nation

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21050 on: November 07, 2018, 11:53:48 AM »
Our snack bar at work used to have a ton of items, you put your cash in a steel box, honor system, no IOUs.
Now notices are up that there is a lot of theft and items will not be replenished, item variety will be reduced.
This is at a DOD site with civilians, military, and contractors.

Second time I've seen this. First time I was when I ran my team's snack fund in a different building.
I have never seen an honor system snack bar work.  My current office has a self service area.  It has several cameras.  That is the only way I see it working.
The snack bar has 2 cameras, yet theft occurs. In the face of the signs that say "No borrowing, no IOUs" and "Cash only, no credit".
What happened to "if you don't have 2 quarters to rub, you ain't getting anything but free air"?
This isn't millennials, people here are from the 60s all the way down to early 20s. Theft don't age discriminate.

fredbear

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21051 on: November 07, 2018, 02:01:33 PM »

...The only thing these school employees would have been contributing would have been an hour or two of time. It wasn't just the teachers who chose not to attend. The principal and administrators didn't show either. The parents likewise mostly gave the event a pass. I'm not sure why. ...

You have two dominant charity genes; I one recessive.  When I get the least hint, the faintest waft, of entitlement - and in the case of these teachers and these administrators it's strong enough to be mephitic - my money and I retreat back under our rock. 

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21052 on: November 07, 2018, 02:44:41 PM »
I've been lurking on the MMM forum for a few months, but then this gem occurred so I had to create an account just to share it.

It's open enrollment season, so my company has been announcing new benefits options. Most of it's been pretty standard stuff until they decided to announce a "Purchasing Power" benefit to "promote financial wellness". It turns out that this is a new program that allows employees to buy items and then pay for them over time via payroll deduction. It's essentially a zero-interest loan from the company to finance irresponsible spending. When one goes to the website to see what you can buy with this new "benefit", there are lists of vacation packages, jewelry, and other luxury items.

I guess it's better than going into credit card debt, but encouraging people to buy consumer crap they can't afford isn't exactly the best way to "promote financial wellness".

Hmmm, either we work for the same company or it's a new thing making the rounds. I, too, looked at the website and at first was confused...

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21053 on: November 07, 2018, 04:29:59 PM »

...The only thing these school employees would have been contributing would have been an hour or two of time. It wasn't just the teachers who chose not to attend. The principal and administrators didn't show either. The parents likewise mostly gave the event a pass. I'm not sure why. ...

You have two dominant charity genes; I one recessive.  When I get the least hint, the faintest waft, of entitlement - and in the case of these teachers and these administrators it's strong enough to be mephitic - my money and I retreat back under our rock.

As do I, although my olfactory gifts are more puny so I require more like a facepunch's worth of entitlement before I lose interest.

Large-scale loss of interest from donors and supporters is definitely what I foresee for this particular school unless they make some big changes. For example, every group or individual that donated more than $50 worth of goods for the auction should have received a free pair of tickets to the event, so that they can schmooze with the ticket-buying parents. Faculty and staff should receive free tickets likewise, because that's how you attract the ticket-buying parents. You have to bait your hook to catch the fish.

Here is a slightly paraphrased excerpt from a conversation with my friend who is involved in running said PTA:

Friend: We're making some changes for next year. There's a new administrative team.

Grim: If you'd like some help--

Friend: (brightly) Any time or resources you're willing to commit would be more than welcome.

Grim: -- I wrote a book on the subject a couple years ago and there's an entire section on parent-teacher organizations. Whatever problems they have, there's most likely a solution in there. And if they buy it on SmashWords they will get the next edition for free when it comes out.

Friend: (less happily) Ah, I'd forgotten about that. I'll mention it to them.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21054 on: November 08, 2018, 06:40:38 AM »
At the lunch table at work, we discussed phones, as I am looking for a new smartphone. One colleague showed me his Samsung Note 9 that he paid $1300 for, and in addition to that came a fancy case that shows the time on the outside. It looked nice, though.
It was a new record for me to hear someone in my network spent that much money on a phone.

I myself have been looking into low segment and middle segment phones. But I have difficulties finding one that completely lives up to my requirements. I found one that does, that is an older flagship phone. Another of my colleagues thinks that I save so hard on everything else that I should give myself this high segment phone that does all the things that I need, rather than a cheaper that has compromises. But I have just decided that she is right. The older flagship phones do not cost so much more than the cheaper model that I had in mind and I would like one that does the all stuff I need.

Here is the thread:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/my-next-smartphone/

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21055 on: November 08, 2018, 10:31:17 AM »

...The only thing these school employees would have been contributing would have been an hour or two of time. It wasn't just the teachers who chose not to attend. The principal and administrators didn't show either. The parents likewise mostly gave the event a pass. I'm not sure why. ...

You have two dominant charity genes; I one recessive.  When I get the least hint, the faintest waft, of entitlement - and in the case of these teachers and these administrators it's strong enough to be mephitic - my money and I retreat back under our rock.

As do I, although my olfactory gifts are more puny so I require more like a facepunch's worth of entitlement before I lose interest.

Large-scale loss of interest from donors and supporters is definitely what I foresee for this particular school unless they make some big changes. For example, every group or individual that donated more than $50 worth of goods for the auction should have received a free pair of tickets to the event, so that they can schmooze with the ticket-buying parents. Faculty and staff should receive free tickets likewise, because that's how you attract the ticket-buying parents. You have to bait your hook to catch the fish.

Here is a slightly paraphrased excerpt from a conversation with my friend who is involved in running said PTA:

Friend: We're making some changes for next year. There's a new administrative team.

Grim: If you'd like some help--

Friend: (brightly) Any time or resources you're willing to commit would be more than welcome.

Grim: -- I wrote a book on the subject a couple years ago and there's an entire section on parent-teacher organizations. Whatever problems they have, there's most likely a solution in there. And if they buy it on SmashWords they will get the next edition for free when it comes out.

Friend: (less happily) Ah, I'd forgotten about that. I'll mention it to them.
I have found it's a delicate balance at our school, and probably many.

On one hand, you NEED new people, new blood, new excitement!  Because, well, kids and families come and go, right?  Not everyone is like me and spaces their kids 6 years apart, guaranteeing a straight 13 years at the same elementary school.

New ideas are great too - it's always good to try new things.  Except: some things don't work.  And: some things that didn't work last year might work next year.  And vice versa.  And some things will NEVER work with a particular demographic.  But demographics change.

We've had a few newer parents who are super excited to jump and do ALL THE THINGS.  And in some ways, they are trying to emulate the wealthier schools.  We've done that before, every few years in the 8 years that I've been at this school.  With varying success. 
- Jogathon.  Instead of low-budgeting and going with parent work, we hired a company with chips to set up, be the EMCEE, and do timing.  We also lured kids into getting donations by promising a free shaved ice if they raised money.  It was a lot more fun this last year!  And it was a bit easier.
(but it netted almost exactly the same amount of money.  In truth, a little less than normal considering the $1000 cost for the chip company.  Though it's really hard to make a comparison with declining enrollment).
- Party books - one or two couples offer up a party, or a sailing trip, or whatever and others pay to attend.  This was a dismal failure.
- Festival with donated food.  Our school is heavily Latino/ Hispanic.  This is the first year that the festival planners just opted to sell pizza, instead of getting food donated by families.  This might be because our powerhouse parent left (her daughter graduated).  I have no idea how well the festival went this year, as I was injured and wasn't able to go.

So many of the people come in with I HAVE SO MANY IDEAS, but "I'm not a doer".  Okay, come back with a doer!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21056 on: November 08, 2018, 11:09:30 AM »
I have found it's a delicate balance at our school, and probably many.

On one hand, you NEED new people, new blood, new excitement!  Because, well, kids and families come and go, right?  Not everyone is like me and spaces their kids 6 years apart, guaranteeing a straight 13 years at the same elementary school.

That's one of the reasons PTA organizations have higher levels of sustainable activity: there's a constant throughput of new people and by the time burnout sets in there's new blood available. Children's sport activities tend to be longer-term.

Quote
New ideas are great too - it's always good to try new things.  Except: some things don't work.  And: some things that didn't work last year might work next year.  And vice versa.  And some things will NEVER work with a particular demographic.  But demographics change.

Sometimes, slowly, over time. Mostly, for public schools and PTA activities, the conditions deteriorate consistently over time as the demographic skews toward a less and less community-minded class of people.

Quote
We've had a few newer parents who are super excited to jump and do ALL THE THINGS.  And in some ways, they are trying to emulate the wealthier schools.  We've done that before, every few years in the 8 years that I've been at this school.  With varying success. 
- Jogathon.  Instead of low-budgeting and going with parent work, we hired a company with chips to set up, be the EMCEE, and do timing.  We also lured kids into getting donations by promising a free shaved ice if they raised money.  It was a lot more fun this last year!  And it was a bit easier.
(but it netted almost exactly the same amount of money.  In truth, a little less than normal considering the $1000 cost for the chip company.  Though it's really hard to make a comparison with declining enrollment).

This methodology is worth keeping if it significantly reduced the wear and tear on your volunteer pool.

Quote
- Party books - one or two couples offer up a party, or a sailing trip, or whatever and others pay to attend.  This was a dismal failure.

It's the same in fundraising as it is in fishing. If the bait's not right, the fish won't bite.

A couples based party is attractive only to individuals who don't have a baby at home, who are able to make plans in advance and stick to them because plans aren't "subject to change", and who are from a culture where going off as couples and leaving the kids at home is common. In cultures where people prefer to celebrate with the extended family, it's quite rare that you'll find someone interested in paying to attend an event with people they didn't know and grow up with. They will, however, spend freely on family oriented activities. Likewise, if you have a group of single parents, the last thing they want is to either pay double to hang out with couples, get forcibly partnered up with someone with whom they have nothing in common, or spend a ton of money to treat someone who's not an actual-- or prospective-- life partner.

Later on in the post you mention a predominately Latino/Hispanic demographic. This is a demographic where people are statistically more likely to enjoy an all-ages activity where they can bring their kids and extended family for a not-too-expensive activity that creates a net gain for you. The event has to be the kind that's easily expandable so that if someone shows up he or she can be included at the last minute.

Quote
- Festival with donated food.  Our school is heavily Latino/ Hispanic.  This is the first year that the festival planners just opted to sell pizza, instead of getting food donated by families.  This might be because our powerhouse parent left (her daughter graduated).  I have no idea how well the festival went this year, as I was injured and wasn't able to go.

So many of the people come in with I HAVE SO MANY IDEAS, but "I'm not a doer".  Okay, come back with a doer!

There are ALWAYS tons of "idea people". Likewise there are plenty of people who want to lecture about how things "ought" to be done. I generally invite them to join the Board of Directors or put together an effective fundraiser using their theories (to show us peons just how superior their approach is, but I leave that part out).

dude

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21057 on: November 08, 2018, 12:02:07 PM »
Background: I make at least 3x the median income for my area.  Guy in the next cubicle has the same job description and has been at it at least ten years longer than I have. He's on the phone about replacing a broken faucet in his house

Quote
"I get paid Thursday, so....

Oh, I say this all the time! Or say, "Fuck, I'm broke this week." By which I mean, I already spent my discretionary income for the pay period, which is a fraction of what I make after committing to savings. I especially don't want tradespeople thinking I'm rich, because they can and will charge more if they think they can get it (though by virtue of the neighborhood I live in, that's a tougher sell).

In fact, I cried poverty just the other day, after I paid off a $1,400 charge for a vacation coming up in two weeks, $543 for our H06 policy, $525 for my wife's Christmas gift (a plane flight to Mexico for a yoga retreat), $330 worth of beer I purchased for a party I'm hosting in a couple weeks for @60 guests, and other sundry shit I spent money on the past week. Left me with $200 in my checking account until next payday (next Friday). Am I actually broke?  Fuck no, we've got $1.2 million dollars in our accounts! But by my definition, I'm broke!

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21058 on: November 08, 2018, 02:07:16 PM »
*notsohumblebrag*

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21059 on: November 09, 2018, 02:48:35 PM »
$6k on a sofa?!?!? What does it do? Do they drive it around their giant house?

How terrible will it be when they spill red wine on it for the first time?

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21060 on: November 09, 2018, 03:31:19 PM »

Also (and I acknowledge that I didn't put this information in the original post) the event was free to staff and faculty. (Tickets were sold to parents and outsiders like me). Tickets included two glasses of wine and a light buffet meal.

The only thing these school employees would have been contributing would have been an hour or two of time. It wasn't just the teachers who chose not to attend. The principal and administrators didn't show either. The parents likewise mostly gave the event a pass. I'm not sure why. It's possible that after the success of previous years it's possible the event was under-advertised. Either that or enough people thought "nah... enough other people will go and I'll still get the benefit from a successful fundraiser having occurred." I've seen that happen a couple of times when a community gets too confident and people start slacking off because they think someone else will carry the weight.

I recently attended one of these. It was fun. The employees of the school were not expected to be there but if they came and mingled they had to buy a ticket just like everyone else. $50 per head. Consequently nobody but the boss and a couple of the more senior staff attended. What a missed opportunity for the academic folks to meet and greet and thank the people helping to support their mission.

Overheard from university faculty friends: husband and wife both work on campus and carpool to avoid buying TWO $250 per year parking passes. They were warned by campus police that whichever spouse did not buy a parking pass could not drive nor park their shared car on campus - although the car has a paid parking pass for the year. The spouse whose name is on the parking pass must be the driver of the vehicle if it is on campus. Penalties could include revoking parking privileges. Must have two passes.

Spouse told us - let 'em try it. -eye roller-
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 03:39:54 PM by Just Joe »

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21061 on: November 09, 2018, 06:07:47 PM »
$6k on a sofa?!?!? What does it do? Do they drive it around their giant house?

How terrible will it be when they spill red wine on it for the first time?

Yikes. We paid $750 for a sofabed to replace our sagging IKEA sofa, and I'm super careful not to spill on it.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21062 on: November 09, 2018, 06:51:01 PM »
Our snack bar at work used to have a ton of items, you put your cash in a steel box, honor system, no IOUs.
Now notices are up that there is a lot of theft and items will not be replenished, item variety will be reduced.
This is at a DOD site with civilians, military, and contractors.

Second time I've seen this. First time I was when I ran my team's snack fund in a different building.

We had an honor snack bar at work, not military but similar type environment.  We did find out the issue with theft.  Our cleaning crew was individuals with special needs, one of them thought that the coffee can with cash was there to provided them with lunch money.  (Meaning they didn't really understand that they were stealing.)  Problem was solved by moving the cash box to an area that was occupied during cleaning time.

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21063 on: November 10, 2018, 01:49:01 AM »
Our snack bar at work used to have a ton of items, you put your cash in a steel box, honor system, no IOUs.
Now notices are up that there is a lot of theft and items will not be replenished, item variety will be reduced.
This is at a DOD site with civilians, military, and contractors.

Second time I've seen this. First time I was when I ran my team's snack fund in a different building.

We had an honor snack bar at work, not military but similar type environment.  We did find out the issue with theft.  Our cleaning crew was individuals with special needs, one of them thought that the coffee can with cash was there to provided them with lunch money.  (Meaning they didn't really understand that they were stealing.)  Problem was solved by moving the cash box to an area that was occupied during cleaning time.
I had a discussion about theft with the manager of our external cleaning service, how they were always the first to be looked at in case of theft and how he trusted each and every one of the implicitly. Couple of weeks later, I'm burning a DVD with full frontal video captured on security camera when one of his staff was rumaging through my desk drawers (and a couple of defective phones had been stolen earlier that month).

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21064 on: November 10, 2018, 05:58:20 AM »
At the lunch table at work, we discussed phones, as I am looking for a new smartphone. One colleague showed me his Samsung Note 9 that he paid $1300 for, and in addition to that came a fancy case that shows the time on the outside. It looked nice, though.
It was a new record for me to hear someone in my network spent that much money on a phone.

I myself have been looking into low segment and middle segment phones. But I have difficulties finding one that completely lives up to my requirements. I found one that does, that is an older flagship phone. Another of my colleagues thinks that I save so hard on everything else that I should give myself this high segment phone that does all the things that I need, rather than a cheaper that has compromises. But I have just decided that she is right. The older flagship phones do not cost so much more than the cheaper model that I had in mind and I would like one that does the all stuff I need.

Here is the thread:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/my-next-smartphone/
The pocophone has the best specs you can find for 300 euro ..
If you want a larger screen perhaps the Honor play ...

1 300 euro for something that will be worthless in 3 to 4 years is insane!

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21065 on: November 10, 2018, 07:44:03 AM »
I'm in the National Guard and as an officer with 15+ years.in I make pretty decent money for a weekend. One of my Soldiers was talking about his new truck he bought that was only $41k. I know he is a.GS-7, soon to be 9 at his civilian job so that's maybe $50k a year plus $6-7k from the Guard. The guy he was talking to paid a similar amount for his truck, and complained how he had to get more expensive financing through the dealership as USAA wouldn't loan him over 100% LTV to cover $7,000 in negative equity from his trade-in.

Meanwhile I'm sitting there with my used truck that I paid $2,700 cash for. Albeit, repairs have been almost $2k over the last couple of years. Still, I'll be able to sell it for probably $2-2.5k whereas these guys have already lost thousands to depreciation and will lose thousands more each year.

Oh, and the guy who bought the truck has mentioned being broke several times recently. I.e. he is down to double digits in his checking account. I think I might know why....

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21066 on: November 11, 2018, 08:57:13 AM »
And do any of them even need a truck to do actual truck things or is it just four wheels to go from A to B?

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21067 on: November 11, 2018, 10:58:35 AM »
And do any of them even need a truck to do actual truck things or is it just four wheels to go from A to B?

I'm sure like everyone else with a truck the bed only gets used 1-2% of the time. I've had my small pickup truck for about 1.5-2 years and I think I've moved stuff in the bed maybe 10 times total. Only a handful of those were things that wouldn't fit in a normal car (Christmas trees, mattresses, etc.).

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21068 on: November 11, 2018, 05:48:17 PM »
And do any of them even need a truck to do actual truck things or is it just four wheels to go from A to B?

I'm sure like everyone else with a truck the bed only gets used 1-2% of the time. I've had my small pickup truck for about 1.5-2 years and I think I've moved stuff in the bed maybe 10 times total. Only a handful of those were things that wouldn't fit in a normal car (Christmas trees, mattresses, etc.).

My husband does landscaping/maintenance type stuff at work and is required to use his own vehicle (I hate his job/boss/company) so he does use the cargo area of his Jeep daily.  We considered buying a small used fleet truck for him, but he wanted to keep what he's got.

tyler2016

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21069 on: November 12, 2018, 05:56:07 AM »
And do any of them even need a truck to do actual truck things or is it just four wheels to go from A to B?

I'm sure like everyone else with a truck the bed only gets used 1-2% of the time. I've had my small pickup truck for about 1.5-2 years and I think I've moved stuff in the bed maybe 10 times total. Only a handful of those were things that wouldn't fit in a normal car (Christmas trees, mattresses, etc.).

My husband does landscaping/maintenance type stuff at work and is required to use his own vehicle (I hate his job/boss/company) so he does use the cargo area of his Jeep daily.  We considered buying a small used fleet truck for him, but he wanted to keep what he's got.

Is he a contractor or employee? Does anyone know if that is legal if he is an employee?

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21070 on: November 12, 2018, 06:04:51 AM »
And do any of them even need a truck to do actual truck things or is it just four wheels to go from A to B?

I'm sure like everyone else with a truck the bed only gets used 1-2% of the time. I've had my small pickup truck for about 1.5-2 years and I think I've moved stuff in the bed maybe 10 times total. Only a handful of those were things that wouldn't fit in a normal car (Christmas trees, mattresses, etc.).

My husband does landscaping/maintenance type stuff at work and is required to use his own vehicle (I hate his job/boss/company) so he does use the cargo area of his Jeep daily.  We considered buying a small used fleet truck for him, but he wanted to keep what he's got.

Is he a contractor or employee? Does anyone know if that is legal if he is an employee?

He's an employee.  Gets a W-2 at the end of the year.  This is actually the least of the issues I have with them.  His supervisor has been changing his time card and not paying him for hours he worked.  We're just having a hard time proving it.

tyler2016

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21071 on: November 12, 2018, 06:50:46 AM »
I'm assuming you have contacted a lawyer? If you are providing equipment, and they are shady enough to alter time sheets, it might be an opportunity. Are they doing right by the customers? Have you considered self employment?

And do any of them even need a truck to do actual truck things or is it just four wheels to go from A to B?

I'm sure like everyone else with a truck the bed only gets used 1-2% of the time. I've had my small pickup truck for about 1.5-2 years and I think I've moved stuff in the bed maybe 10 times total. Only a handful of those were things that wouldn't fit in a normal car (Christmas trees, mattresses, etc.).

My husband does landscaping/maintenance type stuff at work and is required to use his own vehicle (I hate his job/boss/company) so he does use the cargo area of his Jeep daily.  We considered buying a small used fleet truck for him, but he wanted to keep what he's got.

Is he a contractor or employee? Does anyone know if that is legal if he is an employee?

He's an employee.  Gets a W-2 at the end of the year.  This is actually the least of the issues I have with them.  His supervisor has been changing his time card and not paying him for hours he worked.  We're just having a hard time proving it.

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21072 on: November 12, 2018, 07:51:30 AM »
I'm assuming you have contacted a lawyer? If you are providing equipment, and they are shady enough to alter time sheets, it might be an opportunity. Are they doing right by the customers? Have you considered self employment?

And do any of them even need a truck to do actual truck things or is it just four wheels to go from A to B?

I'm sure like everyone else with a truck the bed only gets used 1-2% of the time. I've had my small pickup truck for about 1.5-2 years and I think I've moved stuff in the bed maybe 10 times total. Only a handful of those were things that wouldn't fit in a normal car (Christmas trees, mattresses, etc.).

My husband does landscaping/maintenance type stuff at work and is required to use his own vehicle (I hate his job/boss/company) so he does use the cargo area of his Jeep daily.  We considered buying a small used fleet truck for him, but he wanted to keep what he's got.

Is he a contractor or employee? Does anyone know if that is legal if he is an employee?

He's an employee.  Gets a W-2 at the end of the year.  This is actually the least of the issues I have with them.  His supervisor has been changing his time card and not paying him for hours he worked.  We're just having a hard time proving it.

He talked to one of his friends who is a lawyer who basically told him that he needs to be able to prove that he's actually on site during the time he 's claiming (he turns in a hand written timesheet at the end of the pay period).  He's really not wanting to rock the boat too much until he has another job lined up though so I feel like he's not taking it very seriously.  So, I silently seethe over his job and he looks for something else.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21073 on: November 12, 2018, 08:50:06 AM »
He talked to one of his friends who is a lawyer who basically told him that he needs to be able to prove that he's actually on site during the time he 's claiming (he turns in a hand written timesheet at the end of the pay period).  He's really not wanting to rock the boat too much until he has another job lined up though so I feel like he's not taking it very seriously.  So, I silently seethe over his job and he looks for something else.

Does he have a smartphone with location services enabled? If so, that might be a lot easier than it would initially seem.

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21074 on: November 12, 2018, 09:02:08 AM »
He talked to one of his friends who is a lawyer who basically told him that he needs to be able to prove that he's actually on site during the time he 's claiming (he turns in a hand written timesheet at the end of the pay period).  He's really not wanting to rock the boat too much until he has another job lined up though so I feel like he's not taking it very seriously.  So, I silently seethe over his job and he looks for something else.

Does he have a smartphone with location services enabled? If so, that might be a lot easier than it would initially seem.

That's something we talked about.  I 'm having to bite my tongue a lot about this since it's really his move to make.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21075 on: November 12, 2018, 01:10:20 PM »
I'm sure like everyone else with a truck the bed only gets used 1-2% of the time. I've had my small pickup truck for about 1.5-2 years and I think I've moved stuff in the bed maybe 10 times total. Only a handful of those w
He's an employee.  Gets a W-2 at the end of the year.  This is actually the least of the issues I have with them.  His supervisor has been changing his time card and not paying him for hours he worked.  We're just having a hard time proving it.

Two things:

first insurance. His insurance might not cover him in an accident if he is using his vehicle in a work capacity. Our teen wanted to deliver pizzas. Our agent said sure but you'll be required to carry this supplement delivery insurance b/c as it stands our insurance is personal use insurance - shopping, getting to work, going to see grandma, etc.

second time cards: if he has a smart phone it has a camera. Every time he clocks in and out, take a picture of the card. Retain copies on your personal computer. If the boss changes the time card, bust his tail. Nothing worse than not getting paid for hourly work where your own vehicle is used as well.

tyler2016

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21076 on: November 12, 2018, 01:30:59 PM »
I'm sure like everyone else with a truck the bed only gets used 1-2% of the time. I've had my small pickup truck for about 1.5-2 years and I think I've moved stuff in the bed maybe 10 times total. Only a handful of those w
He's an employee.  Gets a W-2 at the end of the year.  This is actually the least of the issues I have with them.  His supervisor has been changing his time card and not paying him for hours he worked.  We're just having a hard time proving it.

Two things:

first insurance. His insurance might not cover him in an accident if he is using his vehicle in a work capacity. Our teen wanted to deliver pizzas. Our agent said sure but you'll be required to carry this supplement delivery insurance b/c as it stands our insurance is personal use insurance - shopping, getting to work, going to see grandma, etc.

second time cards: if he has a smart phone it has a camera. Every time he clocks in and out, take a picture of the card. Retain copies on your personal computer. If the boss changes the time card, bust his tail. Nothing worse than not getting paid for hourly work where your own vehicle is used as well.

I'd advise emailing the pictures to yourself with something like Gmail immediately after taking them. That way there is no question about the age of photos since you no longer control the time stamps

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21077 on: November 12, 2018, 03:35:06 PM »
CoWorker buys new car.
2 years later, coworker buys latest model, same car because the payments are exactly the same. 
Brags on this for the 1.5 years I've known him.
finally on Friday, I say "But isn't the goal to someday not have a car payment?  Because now you're paying for 6 years instead of 4."
CW:  Oh, I never thought about it like that. 

Coworker is an accountant. 

Linea_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21078 on: November 13, 2018, 04:38:35 AM »
CoWorker buys new car.
2 years later, coworker buys latest model, same car because the payments are exactly the same. 
Brags on this for the 1.5 years I've known him.
finally on Friday, I say "But isn't the goal to someday not have a car payment?  Because now you're paying for 6 years instead of 4."
CW:  Oh, I never thought about it like that. 

Coworker is an accountant.

Shocking that even an accountant doesn't use his brains. Maybe he doesn't have any?

87tweetybirds

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21079 on: November 13, 2018, 06:49:25 AM »
Coworker has been looking for a house for the past 3 years. Husband had a ridiculous list of requirements which made their search hard: certain amount of acreage, pool, couldn't see neighbors from the house and, of course, excellent schools (despite planning to send their kid to private school). They finally found one for $150k over their budget and moved in last month.
Now they are buying furniture because their old house was 2,000 sq ft smaller than the new one. Today my coworker comes in complaining that she just had a $10k credit card bill and had a $12k one last month. Apparently just the sofa they bought was $6k!!! That's more than I spent on outfitting my entire house when we moved from a furnished apartment last year!

6K! I'm pretty sure all of my furniture in my house put together didn't cost me 6K. And the only reason we'd get close to 6k for furniture is because of our mattresses.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21080 on: November 13, 2018, 08:03:17 AM »
Shocking that even an accountant doesn't use his brains. Maybe he doesn't have any?

Accountant acquaintance has "collector cars" sitting around his house. In reality none are worth more than $1K each I'd guess, probably half that. Town passes law that unregistered cars must be stored inside. Likely his wealthy neighbors have complained to the Mayor. He makes some changes to how he has parked them. Coming up on a deadline. Faces fines. Has good intentions to restore these cars someday but these cars were ordinary cars in their prime. In the long run I expect he'll pay more in fines than they are worth before his sentimentality is overcome. I get it though. I have a few oldies too but mine are inside and out of sight.

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21081 on: November 13, 2018, 08:13:03 AM »
CoWorker buys new car.
2 years later, coworker buys latest model, same car because the payments are exactly the same. 
Brags on this for the 1.5 years I've known him.
finally on Friday, I say "But isn't the goal to someday not have a car payment?  Because now you're paying for 6 years instead of 4."
CW:  Oh, I never thought about it like that. 

Coworker is an accountant.

Shocking that even an accountant doesn't use his brains. Maybe he doesn't have any?

Same co-worker is obsessed with credit score.  No matter what silly choice or purchase is being made, always follows up the comment with "but I have an excellent credit score, so I'm sure I'm getting the best deal".  As in, doesn't even negotiate certain things because excellent credit.  I almost want to tell him mine, but it would break his heart because I'm pretty darn sure that mine wins.  In fact, I'm pretty sure that mine is better than most IRL.  Only here on MMM would I never make such a boast!   


ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21082 on: November 13, 2018, 12:36:48 PM »
I cared about my credit score when I was applying for a mortgage, but that isn’t a regular occurrence. Otherwise as long as it was good enough for me to keep my security clearance at my old job ( a low bar, presumably), it just didn’t matter.

El_Mariachi

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21083 on: November 19, 2018, 02:43:00 PM »
A coworker was arguing with me that putting money in our company 401k was a waste of money

I explained to him that just putting 5% would get him 7.5% (stingy company only matches half up to 5%)

He got irritated and told me that he needed the money now, now later....

after I calmed down, I felt bad. He has 2 cars on lease (a 2 year old corvette and a jacked up 4x4 truck) and lives with his parent, BUT he is 33, he should know better

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21084 on: November 19, 2018, 03:36:11 PM »
He has 2 cars on lease (a 2 year old corvette and a jacked up 4x4 truck) and lives with his parent, BUT he is 33, he should know better
Gah, every next word of that gets worse.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21085 on: November 19, 2018, 06:42:50 PM »
Open enrollment time and HR doesn’t know the difference between a Roth IRA and Roth 401k.

The Roth is a new option for us. Some paperwork says IRA (generated in house by HR staff) other paperwork say 401k (generated by 401k investment company). I pointed out the discrepancy to HR. They hadn’t even noticed. Said they were going to fix it, but when they re-emailed out the paperwork it was still wrong. Sheesh.

Told my boss and others about the issue. I don’t want people to make bad decisions based on inaccurate info. But no one seems to comprehend the difference. Most just seem to think 18k or even $5500 is so high it doesn’t matter. I bet I’m the only one who noticed.

El_Mariachi

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21086 on: November 20, 2018, 11:37:56 AM »
Gah, every next word of that gets worse.

yep, the thing that mad me the most angry is that he was telling our new employee to follow his example

I knew he was bad with money, but I was left nearly speechless

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21087 on: November 21, 2018, 06:46:27 AM »
A girl at work, who is very nice, but a little unstable, has been complaining about being broke.  I found out yesterday that she is broke because she spent 2K on cryoliposuction, which she didn't need because she is thin.  I think she has a lot of body image issues. 

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21088 on: November 21, 2018, 09:32:13 AM »
CoWorker buys new car.
2 years later, coworker buys latest model, same car because the payments are exactly the same. 
Brags on this for the 1.5 years I've known him.
finally on Friday, I say "But isn't the goal to someday not have a car payment?  Because now you're paying for 6 years instead of 4."
CW:  Oh, I never thought about it like that. 

Coworker is an accountant.

Shocking that even an accountant doesn't use his brains. Maybe he doesn't have any?

Same co-worker is obsessed with credit score.  No matter what silly choice or purchase is being made, always follows up the comment with "but I have an excellent credit score, so I'm sure I'm getting the best deal".  As in, doesn't even negotiate certain things because excellent credit.  I almost want to tell him mine, but it would break his heart because I'm pretty darn sure that mine wins.  In fact, I'm pretty sure that mine is better than most IRL.  Only here on MMM would I never make such a boast!   

Oh my gosh.  I cannot believe this just happened.  Same co-worker.  Yesterday tells me he's been getting calls from the dealer offering an upgrade to the latest model year.  Proceeds to tell me what a hardass he is when negotiating.  I just shake my head (from the other side of a cubicle wall, so he doesn't see me smacking my head).

This morning... Co-worker bought the new car.  The negotiation was to keep the payment exactly the same.  I tried to keep my mouth shut because really, he just doesn't want to hear how stupid this is.  Then he tells me he'd have to be an idiot not to take the deal for the same payment.  All I could say was that I've gotten used to not having a car payment for the past 8 years, so that's what I would have been thinking about.  Then in kind of a superior way, he tells me that he's used to it, so it's not like he even notices that payment any more. 

No more words.  No words.

kms

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21089 on: November 21, 2018, 10:33:16 AM »
From a psychological point of view his justification actually makes sense. He doesn't see the vehicle as something that can be purchased and paid for but a recurring cost, like rent or a subscription. His mind simply can't grasp the fact that there's actually a price to be paid associated with that vehicle. Instead, he sees it as recurring perpetual subscription model.

From this point of view it makes perfect sense - if he sees his car as a subscription then why wouldn't he swap it for a brand-new one after two years assuming the payments remain the same? He's still paying the same subscription fee each month but instead of a 2-year old car he's getting a new one.

As braindead as this may sound to a normal person with even the most basic math skills: if you take away the fact that a car is something to be purchased and not something to be subscribed to then it makes perfect sense.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21090 on: November 21, 2018, 11:10:41 AM »
I feel like that's the same kind of logic that's made leasing so popular in the last few years.

kms

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21091 on: November 21, 2018, 11:14:36 AM »
Exactly. Life seems to be moving towards the subscription model anyway. Leasing has been around for decades and it's basically a subscription. You can lease cars, computers, expensive electronics, etc. As long as you keep paying your monthly "subscription" fee you will continue getting the latest and greatest. Adobe has switched its entire portfolio over from one-time purchased perpetual licenses to a subscription-only model. Microsoft has been pushing their Office 365 subscription for years, and more likely than not Office 2019 is going to be the final stand-alone perpetual license release. Even small software companies are moving away from one-time perpetual licensing to a subscription model, and this trend is going to continue.

It's basically the same with cars. Most people are so used to having a car payment that it really is nothing short of a subscription for them. They simply cannot grasp the fact that a car can be driven for much longer than the payment period lasts and can ultimately be paid for eventually. Let's face it: what do most people do once their car is paid for? They trade it in for a new car and the cycle continues.

Good for us though, because it means the market gets flooded with 3-7 year old used vehicles at sometimes ridiculously low prices.

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21092 on: November 21, 2018, 11:28:10 AM »
Office 365

But that's a great value for your money, if you can leverage the family plan and want the online space for backups, at least :)

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21093 on: November 21, 2018, 11:48:15 AM »
Office 365

But that's a great value for your money, if you can leverage the family plan and want the online space for backups, at least :)

LibreOffice is free...

Gronnie

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21094 on: November 21, 2018, 12:06:10 PM »
Office 365

But that's a great value for your money, if you can leverage the family plan and want the online space for backups, at least :)

LibreOffice is free...

In general, when it comes to software you get what you pay for. Very true in this case.

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21095 on: November 21, 2018, 12:17:34 PM »
At my new job we use the G-suite (google docs, slides, sheets, etc.). I always thought of those products as “Microsoft Office lite”. Now that I am really using them in action I find them to be more useful than Office. You may give that a try and see what you think.

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21096 on: November 21, 2018, 01:01:30 PM »
Office 365

But that's a great value for your money, if you can leverage the family plan and want the online space for backups, at least :)

LibreOffice is free...

In general, when it comes to software you get what you pay for. Very true in this case.

I disagree, both in general and in this case. I have switched entirely to open source software at home and have found the experience vastly superior compared to when I used proprietary software (on both Microsoft and Apple operating systems). There are certainly commercial use cases, but for personal use open source software is more than adequate.

russianswinga

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21097 on: November 21, 2018, 02:29:37 PM »
Even small software companies are moving away from one-time perpetual licensing to a subscription model, and this trend is going to continue.

It gets worse. We have a client that had SolidWorks 2013 (fully paid for). They were under support with SolidWorks until 2013 and received new versions annually. Unfortunately, SW 2013 doesn't run on Windows 10.
We place a call to several SW dealers, all state the same thing:
- Here's your price for SW 2019 and service through the next year ($5K or so)
- Here's your backbill for support from 2013 to 2019. ($20K)
Apparently Solidworks uses a new model that if you ever drop support, and need a new version anytime in the future, you will be fined for back support for all missed years you didn't use the software! The only way around that is a whole new business name (not an option in a 200 person well established company). They can and will blacklist you for a single missed year of support, until all (even unused) back support is paid.
At least Microsoft and Adobe don't charge you for the years you don't use them.
Imagine selling your old Toyota in 2013, and now buying a Toyota again and the dealer handing you a bill for all the revenue Toyota missed out on from you over the years you didn't drive one.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 03:07:12 PM by russianswinga »

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21098 on: November 21, 2018, 02:34:27 PM »
Even small software companies are moving away from one-time perpetual licensing to a subscription model, and this trend is going to continue.

It gets worse. We have a client that had SolidWorks 2013 (fully paid for). They were under support with SolidWorks until 2013 and received new versions annually. Unfortunately, SW 2013 doesn't run on Windows 10.
We place a call to several SW dealers, all state the same thing:
- Here's your price for SW 2019 and service through the next year ($5K or so)
- Here's your backbill for support from 2013 to 2019. ($20K)
Apparently Solidworks uses a new model that if you ever drop support, and need a new version anytime in the future, you will be fined for back support for all missed years you didn't use the software! The only way around that is a whole new business name (not an option in a 200 person well established company). They can and will blacklist you for a single missed year of support, until all (even unused) back support is paid.
At least Microsoft and Adobe don't charge you for the years you don't use them.
Holy crap.  That is awful.  Wow.  No words.

kms

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21099 on: November 21, 2018, 03:24:42 PM »
@russianswinga Oh wow, that is pretty bad. SolidWorks is not alone in this, though. Apparently, AutoDesk does the same with AutoCAD. Many companies are getting more and more creative in forcing businesses to purchase software they might not even need. For example, I was recently informed that Veeam only allows one license of their Veeam Essentials Standard for up to three hypervisors per company. If you have two sites with two virtualization servers each you need to either purchase the second Essentials Standard license under a different company name or you need to purchase the much more expensive Enterprise Standard license with features you might never ever need.

It's a good thing I don't need any of these for personal use and only have to deal with that stuff on a professional level. In general, I agree with @RWD: in most cases, OSS will be perfectly fine for personal use. There are some exceptions where the open source alternatives are either non-existent or utterly useless though, most notably Lightroom and Photoshop.