Overheard at Work

[ysette9]

How sad

[gooki]

Sleep Nazis

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/18/japanese-firms-encourage-workers-sleep-on-job

[Liberty Stache]

I'm 90% sure someone was sleeping in the bathroom the other day. No loud snoring, but definitely a distinct sleep breathing pattern and no other sound or movement in the stall. The breathing stayed the same after I flushed... I guess headphones or something?

Our work restrooms have motion detector lights that go out after some reasonable amount of time (never actually checked how long).  I went in the other day and the lights popped on but someone was in a stall.  I'm thinking they were either sleeping or need more fiber.

Usually its someone who needs to stop playing candy crush/get off their phone.

[merula]

I work with a lovely man in his 50s, who is a constant reminder to me of the benefits of both self-care and mustachianism. He is overweight and having some costly health issues as a result (diabetes, sleep apnea, kidney back and knee problems), resulting in running out of sick pay and no savings. He also has two early twenty-something kids who don't work and have no plans to leave home, a wife that works part time only, so he has to stay at a job he hates (the stress is killing him) to support his family. They've recently remodelled the kitchen and bought a fancy puppy, so they had to add in fences, all costing huge $$$$ and stress.

Though he dreams of leaving work, his expenses are so high that he can only look at jobs in different fields grossing over $100k (hard to do when transitioning to a new field at 50). At the moment his heart is set on a new field that pays well, but is notoriously competitive and had a 12-phase employment process- costing him time and money for a small chance of bagging a job.

He's decided to get in shape recently  (he tries this once a year or so, hopefully it'll stick this time)- he's signed himself and wife up for a food delivery system, all meals - I asked the cost- $159aud, per person, per week!! For comparison, I spend about $125per week total for 3 adults. On top of this, he still needs to feed his two adult kids. He's also joined a fancy gym near his place, $40 a week for each he and his wife.  While I want him to succeed (he badly needs to get fit, his office is next to mine, I'm worried that I'll hear a thump and find him dead on the floor one day), I just feel so bad for him, he seems so 'trapped' in his life, and just unhappy. 

While I don't love my job either, I've got a clear plan (out in 8 years with a paid off mortgage and a decent investment portfolio) and low expenses/enough savings that  if the stress got bad enough, I could quit and sustain my lifestyle with a much lower wage.

I read this and thought about a coworker I have. The problem is, almost every detail is worse for him:
-Not 50's, 63 or 64
-Overweight *and* a recovering alcoholic
-Two high-school-aged kids, both of whom have their hearts set on private college for very difficult fields (dance and music)
-Wife doesn't work at all
-Recent remodel, although thankfully no puppy
-Incredibly unhappy and frustrated with his life

In addition:
-Falling behind at being able to do his job at an increasing rate, as the role is evolving and he refuses to acknowledge the change
-Not trying to get fit at all, though at least he's still on the wagon
-Pulled his entire retirement savings out of the market and into cash ~2 years ago, because a crash was obviously imminent

It's an awful situation, and one that is motivating me to never end up there.

[Bemly]

I just had a conversation with my boss. She is married with one kid, makes around $40k, not sure about husband.

She's been complaining of neurological issues (headache, light headedness, vision issues) since I started 3 months ago.

She talked to a Dr and he found swelling, and refered her to a specialist.

She can't pay the $1750 upfront for the scan, so was talking about going to the ER bc then it would be billed instead of paid upfront. It would also add an additional $300.

I said she should probably do the scan. She said "what would I do anyway? Even if I am dying I want can I do, cash out my retirement? I don't have any money."

Literally the next lines out of her mouth were about going to Miami next week to get a tattoo. Overall pretty said especially considering the cost of health care, but ultimately she's making bad decisions.

[RidetheRain]

I just had a conversation with my boss. She is married with one kid, makes around $40k, not sure about husband.

She's been complaining of neurological issues (headache, light headedness, vision issues) since I started 3 months ago.

She talked to a Dr and he found swelling, and refered her to a specialist.

She can't pay the $1750 upfront for the scan, so was talking about going to the ER bc then it would be billed instead of paid upfront. It would also add an additional $300.

I said she should probably do the scan. She said "what would I do anyway? Even if I am dying I want can I do, cash out my retirement? I don't have any money."

Literally the next lines out of her mouth were about going to Miami next week to get a tattoo. Overall pretty said especially considering the cost of health care, but ultimately she's making bad decisions.

I'd recommend tourism healthcare and get some scans from a cheaper country. Sounds like something she'd be into and then at least she would have the scans.

[netskyblue]

I'm 90% sure someone was sleeping in the bathroom the other day. No loud snoring, but definitely a distinct sleep breathing pattern and no other sound or movement in the stall. The breathing stayed the same after I flushed... I guess headphones or something?

Our work restrooms have motion detector lights that go out after some reasonable amount of time (never actually checked how long).  I went in the other day and the lights popped on but someone was in a stall.  I'm thinking they were either sleeping or need more fiber.

Usually its someone who needs to stop playing candy crush/get off their phone.

Oh yeah, lights off and someone in the stall is something that happens at my work all the time.

[DarkandStormy]

Today at lunch, co-worker reveals after a recent promotion that he can't max his Roth IRA this year (he's married so I'm assuming MFJ) when the topic of IRAs comes up.

Ok, so he's making good money.

He also reveals he's not even close to maxing out his 401k (he's 36, I think he said) and that "6% is probably enough."

Smh.

[MoMan]

We have an internal "marketplace" chat room set up in company our chat program, that folks in our office use like a craigslist board to buy/sell stuff they're looking to get rid of.

My last company had something like this. Someone posted an ad for a "Chip & Dale dresser."
I'm guessing they mean Chippendale, not some Disney furniture.

[better late]

Getting to know you chat with a co-worker:

She was telling me about her young adult daughter (who lives with them) and how hard it is for them to get ahead.
For example, she and her husband purchased a new car for their daughter while she was in college so that the daughter could have something reliable to drive the first years out of school when she would likely not be making a lot of money; the daughter got in an accident and totaled the car, so the daughter had to take out a car loan to buy another new car because the insurance payout on the first one wasn't enough.  This is your run of the mill story, except then my co-worker said, we didn't want her saddled with a new car loan but God had other plans. 

What??!

[ketchup]

Getting to know you chat with a co-worker:

She was telling me about her young adult daughter (who lives with them) and how hard it is for them to get ahead.
For example, she told me that the parents had purchased a new car for their daughter while she was in college so that the daughter could have something reliable to drive the first years out of school when she would likely not be making a lot of money; the daughter got in an accident and totaled the car, so the daughter had to take out a car loan to buy another new car because the insurance payout on the first one wasn't enough.  This is your run of the mill story, except then my co-worker said, we didn't want her saddled with a new car loan but God had other plans. 

What??!

Unfortunately, it's easier to blame something external (even supernatural) than blame yourself or your family member and actually own your fuckups.

[BDWW]

We have an internal "marketplace" chat room set up in company our chat program, that folks in our office use like a craigslist board to buy/sell stuff they're looking to get rid of.

My last company had something like this. Someone posted an ad for a "Chip & Dale dresser."
I'm guessing they mean Chippendale, not some Disney furniture.

Are you sure they screwed up the first word not the second? Maybe they meant "Chip & Dale dancer"  ...

[mustachepungoeshere]

We have an internal "marketplace" chat room set up in company our chat program, that folks in our office use like a craigslist board to buy/sell stuff they're looking to get rid of.

My last company had something like this. Someone posted an ad for a "Chip & Dale dresser."
I'm guessing they mean Chippendale, not some Disney furniture.

Are you sure they screwed up the first word not the second? Maybe they meant "Chip & Dale dancer"  ...

I think you need to ask for details, @MoMan!

[better late]

Getting to know you chat with a co-worker:

She was telling me about her young adult daughter (who lives with them) and how hard it is for them to get ahead.
For example, she told me that the parents had purchased a new car for their daughter while she was in college so that the daughter could have something reliable to drive the first years out of school when she would likely not be making a lot of money; the daughter got in an accident and totaled the car, so the daughter had to take out a car loan to buy another new car because the insurance payout on the first one wasn't enough.  This is your run of the mill story, except then my co-worker said, we didn't want her saddled with a new car loan but God had other plans. 

What??!

Unfortunately, it's easier to blame something external (even supernatural) than blame yourself or your family member and actually own your fuckups.

Amen to that! 

[eliza]

We have an internal "marketplace" chat room set up in company our chat program, that folks in our office use like a craigslist board to buy/sell stuff they're looking to get rid of.

My last company had something like this. Someone posted an ad for a "Chip & Dale dresser."
I'm guessing they mean Chippendale, not some Disney furniture.

Hmmm.  How much are they asking?  I might be interested!
Are you sure they screwed up the first word not the second? Maybe they meant "Chip & Dale dancer"  ...

I think you need to ask for details, @MoMan!

[hudsoncat]

I'm lucky to work for an employer that puts a percentage of salary into our retirement without requiring a match. Said employer is finally going through with switching all employees to the same payroll schedule. They've been talking about it for three years and finally one year ago said, "we're going to do it for sure in April 2018." This will mean some employees will be without a paycheck for 4 weeks. There is quite a bit of angst about this. I get it, but again, talking about it for three years and confirmed timing one year ago. There are several options to help make this process easier, including cashing out up to 80 hours of vacation (at minimum people are earning 3 weeks per year. Most people are earning 4-5 weeks per year). I've chosen to cash out vacation. My vacation accrues faster than I can take it and I can't carry over that much, so why not cash out rather than lose it, right? But since I max out my 403b and my HSA, I was concerned that if benefits came out of the vacation cash out I could over contribute for 2018. We had a large meeting about the payrool change last week, where I asked if benefits would be taken out. Today, a co-worker mentioned they were glad I asked because knowing that benefits wouldn't be taken out made them excited. That's a lot of background to tell you this story.

CW: Without the benefits coming out, the check should be bigger. It'll feel like a bonus.
Me: Sure, I guess. I'm just glad it won't effect my 403b and HSA deductions. Though it'd be okay if [employer] still put in their portion!
CW: wait, you put in more than [employer] does?
Me: yes.
CW: I didn't even know you were allowed to do that!
Me: oh... haha... yeah. (thinking: the way things are set up here, especially the last two years, you have to be actively trying to NOT know this)
CW: Not that it matters, only people like you without kids can save money! I wish we saved more.
Me: Oh, well, I'm sure it's harder to save.
CW: It's really hard to save.
CW: **next breath*** Hey, look at the iPhone X I just bought! I got my wife and [teenage] daughter one too! Gave [pre-teen] son my iPhone 7 but I'm thinking I might have to give in and get him one too.
Me: ***Facepalm***

[MgoSam]

CW: **next breath*** Hey, look at the iPhone X I just bought! I got my wife and [teenage] daughter one too! Gave [pre-teen] son my iPhone 7 but I'm thinking I might have to give in and get him one too.
Me: ***Facepalm***

Yeah, wow! So you're CW just spend like $3000 for 3 phones (I'm going to guess he's paying this on the monthly plan)? And I am guessing he may be upgrading to next year's phone as well?

I don't understand how people do this? I simply don't! I paid around $650 for my phone about 16 months ago and I plan on using it for another year....and my company paid for my phone as I use it primarily for work.

[Just Joe]

Does the average American not realize that there are other brands of phones to choose from? These "other brands" are often half price or lower and still have all the same doo-dads. Or buy used...

[jinga nation]

Does the average American not realize that there are other brands of phones to choose from? These "other brands" are often half price or lower and still have all the same doo-dads. Or buy used...

Only Apple claims "Designed in California". Buy 'Murican!

[TexasRunner]

Does the average American not realize that there are other brands of phones to choose from? These "other brands" are often half price or lower and still have all the same doo-dads. Or buy used...

[Roadrunner53]

This may seem dumb, but what do people have to talk about so much on their phones? When I was a teen and we had land lines I talked up a storm every single night to my best friend. We talked about boys and mean girls and stupid stuff like that. But what do adults talk so much about that they have to drive with their phones glued to their ears while driving or walking across a street and pay no attention to traffic? I see people who are driving out of their driveways first thing in the morning and are on their phones. I guess I just don't get it. If it were up to me I wouldn't even have a phone.  I like having it for emergencies and occasional calls and some of the features on the phone. What is the 24/7 attraction of the phone?

[merula]

This may seem dumb, but what do people have to talk about so much on their phones? When I was a teen and we had land lines I talked up a storm every single night to my best friend. We talked about boys and mean girls and stupid stuff like that. But what do adults talk so much about that they have to drive with their phones glued to their ears while driving or walking across a street and pay no attention to traffic? I see people who are driving out of their driveways first thing in the morning and are on their phones. I guess I just don't get it. If it were up to me I wouldn't even have a phone.  I like having it for emergencies and occasional calls and some of the features on the phone. What is the 24/7 attraction of the phone?

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's still mostly boys, mean girls and stupid stuff.

[ketchup]

This may seem dumb, but what do people have to talk about so much on their phones? When I was a teen and we had land lines I talked up a storm every single night to my best friend. We talked about boys and mean girls and stupid stuff like that. But what do adults talk so much about that they have to drive with their phones glued to their ears while driving or walking across a street and pay no attention to traffic? I see people who are driving out of their driveways first thing in the morning and are on their phones. I guess I just don't get it. If it were up to me I wouldn't even have a phone.  I like having it for emergencies and occasional calls and some of the features on the phone. What is the 24/7 attraction of the phone?

Most of it as I gather is the never-ending scroll through TwitSpacetagramSnapBook.  For me, if I'm not careful it can turn into just mindless web browsing, like finding myself reading the Wikipedia article about the production of Jurassic Park (1993), debates about the theoretical habitability of Enceladus, or military strategies in ancient Rome.

[Linda_Norway]

This may seem dumb, but what do people have to talk about so much on their phones? When I was a teen and we had land lines I talked up a storm every single night to my best friend. We talked about boys and mean girls and stupid stuff like that. But what do adults talk so much about that they have to drive with their phones glued to their ears while driving or walking across a street and pay no attention to traffic? I see people who are driving out of their driveways first thing in the morning and are on their phones. I guess I just don't get it. If it were up to me I wouldn't even have a phone.  I like having it for emergencies and occasional calls and some of the features on the phone. What is the 24/7 attraction of the phone?

I think for a large part it is parents, discussing who is getting the children from childcare that day because they are delayed by some meeting, discussing who will shop groceries, etc. For some reason they often need to discuss this wile driving, while not using a handsfree device.

[shelivesthedream]

In the olden days, if you made a plan you had to stick to it because there was no way to change it last-minute. Nowadays you can renegotiate every minute detail up to the time it's actually happening. So my guess is a lot like Linda_Norway's: that they are endlessly going over old ground on when they should meet up, where they should go, who else they should invite, what they should do, whether they might now be late because of traffic, how they just need to stop by the dry cleaners first... Because they can now also narrate their entire journey in real time, rather than just showing up at the end of it and giving an executive summary then.

[Roe]

There is a maintenance man at my work that is constantly on the phone. Using handsfree, and doesnt matter if he is lugging printer toner or rolling away bins. Always talking, never silent.

From what I've heard it sounds like is having personal calls with friends, and im fascinated with how much he seems to have to say. Or maybe he is being real clever, working some side hustle?

[Roadrunner53]

At my last job there was this guy who was a manager of some sort and kind of reminded me of a thug. He would stroll the hallways blabbing on his cell and talk real loud. It was like he was trying to show everyone how important he was.

A few times when I was at the airport, travelling on company business, I would see some guys doing the same thing. While waiting, there always seemed to be that loud, important guy pacing around talking loudly on his phone. WHY?

Also, what is so important that you have to drive and talk/text that can't wait?

[Rowellen]

A few times when I was at the airport, travelling on company business, I would see some guys doing the same thing. While waiting, there always seemed to be that loud, important guy pacing around talking loudly on his phone. WHY?

At my grandad's funeral (not during the service), cell phones were a really new thing and gigantic. Someone was talking into one acting so very important. It was quite ridiculous given he was about 19 and generally considered to be an idiot. Then it rang. It was hilarious. I'm sure grandad would have been laughing.

[vikingtantan]

Sorry, but I need to rant a bit. It isn't so much money related, but lifestyle/work related. Also, it's nothing too crazy or earth shatteringly wtf, but it's irking me. Maybe because I don't see or have any issue with my daily commute to work. Anyways:

I have a teacher replacing me at my schools in a couple of weeks. Before requesting to be transferred at my school, she asked a bunch of questions, including how I commute to work. I told her that it would be a 20 minute walk (due to no buses running conveniently in that area. However there are taxis and they're super cheap to use in my city). Long story short, she requested to transfer to my school and was approved for the transfer. Now she's complaining about the 20 minute walk to work that she'll start soon. (>_<) Lady, you knew this ahead of time and still chose my school. You have no reason to be upset. You knew exactly what you were getting yourself into. Plus it's not going to kill you to walk 20 minutes to work and it'll be a great way to get some exercise each day.

End rant.

[Linda_Norway]

Sorry, but I need to rant a bit. It isn't so much money related, but lifestyle/work related. Also, it's nothing too crazy or earth shatteringly wtf, but it's irking me. Maybe because I don't see or have any issue with my daily commute to work. Anyways:

I have a teacher replacing me at my schools in a couple of weeks. Before requesting to be transferred at my school, she asked a bunch of questions, including how I commute to work. I told her that it would be a 20 minute walk (due to no buses running conveniently in that area. However there are taxis and they're super cheap to use in my city). Long story short, she requested to transfer to my school and was approved for the transfer. Now she's complaining about the 20 minute walk to work that she'll start soon. (>_<) Lady, you knew this ahead of time and still chose my school. You have no reason to be upset. You knew exactly what you were getting yourself into. Plus it's not going to kill you to walk 20 minutes to work and it'll be a great way to get some exercise each day.

End rant.

We hear you.

We Mustachians would love to have a 20 minute walking commute to work. That is about as good as you could get.

[Cressida]

We Mustachians would love to have a 20 minute walking commute to work. That is about as good as you could get.

That would be the best commute ever.

[shelivesthedream]

We Mustachians would love to have a 20 minute walking commute to work. That is about as good as you could get.

That would be the best commute ever.

I have had that commute in the past (fifteen minutes but up a massive hill) and can confirm it's lovely.

[marty998]

TwitSpacetagramSnapBook.

This is my new favourite word.

[Nickyd£g]

I have a lovely 15 minute walk to and from work, love saving £50 a week on bus fare that I was paying to commute to my old job!

Story: Yesterday, we had a 2 hour presentation and a free 1 to 1 with a financial adviser about my new organisation's pension scheme. Some fairly basic stuff but interesting nevertheless. 5 people showed up, and 1 left early. Afterwards, I was chatting to a colleague and mentioned the workshop. Colleague proceeded to say:

"oh, I didn't go, who needs a pension? I mean, YOLO, right? Plus, that's why I'm marrying a businessman, he can support me. Anyway, I'll have to work until I'm dead, or there won't be a pension by the time I retire. May as well spend my money on things I like than on a pension!"

I stood, mouth agape, as she trotted out these (contradictory) "reasons".  Then slowly backed away, smiling and nodding....

[Jouer]

This may seem dumb, but what do people have to talk about so much on their phones? When I was a teen and we had land lines I talked up a storm every single night to my best friend. We talked about boys and mean girls and stupid stuff like that. But what do adults talk so much about that they have to drive with their phones glued to their ears while driving or walking across a street and pay no attention to traffic? I see people who are driving out of their driveways first thing in the morning and are on their phones. I guess I just don't get it. If it were up to me I wouldn't even have a phone.  I like having it for emergencies and occasional calls and some of the features on the phone. What is the 24/7 attraction of the phone?

I think for a large part it is parents, discussing who is getting the children from childcare that day because they are delayed by some meeting, discussing who will shop groceries, etc. For some reason they often need to discuss this wile driving, while not using a handsfree device.

I think these days people are so used to being babysat by their devices that they can't be alone. In line at the bank: check twitter (I'm totally guilty of this one). In the car: chat with someone to keep me company (hell no).

I also think part of the problem is the multitask world we live in. Some people feel the need to be constantly multitasking. Of course, that often times means they aren't giving the proper attention to either task.

[Roadrunner53]

I relish my quiet time and I also pay close attention to my driving and chatting on the phone, while driving, is ILLEGAL and distracting. I would despise talking  and driving. How many people have been killed by people talking on cell phones? There isn't a day that I drive that someone talking on a cell comes over the yellow line into my lane. I have come so close to being killed.

What is so important that they can't pull over and talk?

[BDWW]

I relish my quiet time and I also pay close attention to my driving and chatting on the phone, while driving, is ILLEGAL and distracting. I would despise talking  and driving. How many people have been killed by people talking on cell phones? There isn't a day that I drive that someone talking on a cell comes over the yellow line into my lane. I have come so close to being killed.

What is so important that they can't pull over and talk?

IIRC there are multiple studies pointing out that distracted driving is as dangerous as drunk driving, yet DUI offenses are considerably steeper than even any state/municipality that has cell phone use laws. I've always thought that a decent example of the arbitrary system of justice in this country. If enough people do something or it's popular enough, the law is toothless. Conversely if something is socially taboo or only advocated by a minority it will be demonized and have draconian enforcement.

[MrMoogle]

I relish my quiet time and I also pay close attention to my driving and chatting on the phone, while driving, is ILLEGAL and distracting. I would despise talking  and driving. How many people have been killed by people talking on cell phones? There isn't a day that I drive that someone talking on a cell comes over the yellow line into my lane. I have come so close to being killed.

What is so important that they can't pull over and talk?

IIRC there are multiple studies pointing out that distracted driving is as dangerous as drunk driving, yet DUI offenses are considerably steeper than even any state/municipality that has cell phone use laws. I've always thought that a decent example of the arbitrary system of justice in this country. If enough people do something or it's popular enough, the law is toothless. Conversely if something is socially taboo or only advocated by a minority it will be demonized and have draconian enforcement.

It takes 2 seconds to put the phone down, but hours to sober up.  I'm guessing that comes into play somewhere.

[RidetheRain]

I relish my quiet time and I also pay close attention to my driving and chatting on the phone, while driving, is ILLEGAL and distracting. I would despise talking  and driving. How many people have been killed by people talking on cell phones? There isn't a day that I drive that someone talking on a cell comes over the yellow line into my lane. I have come so close to being killed.

What is so important that they can't pull over and talk?

IIRC there are multiple studies pointing out that distracted driving is as dangerous as drunk driving, yet DUI offenses are considerably steeper than even any state/municipality that has cell phone use laws. I've always thought that a decent example of the arbitrary system of justice in this country. If enough people do something or it's popular enough, the law is toothless. Conversely if something is socially taboo or only advocated by a minority it will be demonized and have draconian enforcement.

It takes 2 seconds to put the phone down, but hours to sober up.  I'm guessing that comes into play somewhere.

I've always wondered if the danger from cell phones was purely the distraction or if it's also holding the phone to your face. If hands-free is just as dangerous (as the term distracted-driving suggests) I wonder if having passengers is equally distracting and dangerous.

[RyanAtTanagra]

I've always wondered if the danger from cell phones was purely the distraction or if it's also holding the phone to your face. If hands-free is just as dangerous (as the term distracted-driving suggests) I wonder if having passengers is equally distracting and dangerous.

No, there have been studies on this.  Talking to a passenger in the car isn't the same because it doesn't mentally remove you from your environment, which talking on a phone partially does, whether you're driving or walking or sitting on your couch.  Last I heard, hands-free is just as distracting as holding a phone to your face.  My suspicion is the only reason hands-free is legal and holding a phone isn't is because of the difficulty detecting and enforcing hands-free, and also pushback from the auto industry, as bluetooth was starting to become a popular selling point in cars right as these laws were going into effect.

[RidetheRain]

I've always wondered if the danger from cell phones was purely the distraction or if it's also holding the phone to your face. If hands-free is just as dangerous (as the term distracted-driving suggests) I wonder if having passengers is equally distracting and dangerous.

No, there have been studies on this.  Talking to a passenger in the car isn't the same because it doesn't mentally remove you from your environment, which talking on a phone partially does, whether you're driving or walking or sitting on your couch.  Last I heard, hands-free is just as distracting as holding a phone to your face.  My suspicion is the only reason hands-free is legal and holding a phone isn't is because of the difficulty detecting and enforcing hands-free, and also pushback from the auto industry, as bluetooth was starting to become a popular selling point in cars right as these laws were going into effect.

I guess that makes sense. I'm just thinking about all the times I've missed my exit or turn because I was chatting more than driving. Or worse, when my brother is mediating his kids who are just at that age when they fight like cats and dogs.

[Gin1984]

I've always wondered if the danger from cell phones was purely the distraction or if it's also holding the phone to your face. If hands-free is just as dangerous (as the term distracted-driving suggests) I wonder if having passengers is equally distracting and dangerous.

No, there have been studies on this.  Talking to a passenger in the car isn't the same because it doesn't mentally remove you from your environment, which talking on a phone partially does, whether you're driving or walking or sitting on your couch.  Last I heard, hands-free is just as distracting as holding a phone to your face.  My suspicion is the only reason hands-free is legal and holding a phone isn't is because of the difficulty detecting and enforcing hands-free, and also pushback from the auto industry, as bluetooth was starting to become a popular selling point in cars right as these laws were going into effect.

Citation please.  I have not seen this, I have seen the research bias the results by asking the participants to do hard math problems to as equivalent to the phone, but not one comparing like you have posted.

[kimmarg]

I've always wondered if the danger from cell phones was purely the distraction or if it's also holding the phone to your face. If hands-free is just as dangerous (as the term distracted-driving suggests) I wonder if having passengers is equally distracting and dangerous.

No, there have been studies on this.  Talking to a passenger in the car isn't the same because it doesn't mentally remove you from your environment, which talking on a phone partially does, whether you're driving or walking or sitting on your couch.  Last I heard, hands-free is just as distracting as holding a phone to your face.  My suspicion is the only reason hands-free is legal and holding a phone isn't is because of the difficulty detecting and enforcing hands-free, and also pushback from the auto industry, as bluetooth was starting to become a popular selling point in cars right as these laws were going into effect.

Hmmm I'm curious about this. I occasionally talk on the phone in the car with a hands free device. Only in good weather and no traffic (this describes my commute to work about 80% of the time). Is it more distracting than say listening to  a podcast, which I also do all the time? Yesterday I was driving a friend home from a medical appointment and missed my exit because I was talking to her and distracted, so clearly in the car conversations can be just as distracting.

[Just Joe]

Perhaps it requires more concentration to understand the human language through a device compared to talking in person. The sound reproduction of a cell phone is not as good as a podcast made with a proper microphone.

For example I don't hear well in noisy environments like bars or restaurants. I turn into my great-grandmother (years go and double hearing aids) sitting on the edge of the conversation and just smiling b/c I don't understand 90% of what is being said. Put me in a quiet room and I can hear the paint dry.

[acepedro45]

Overseen on the way to work:

A Clown trying to goose his rear-wheel drive Ford Mustang up a gentle but icy grade to get to the work parking lot. I drove gingerly around him, the '05 Corolla as nimble as a billygoat. Such a fancy toy undone by a little ice!

[RWD]

Overseen on the way to work:

A Clown trying to goose his rear-wheel drive Ford Mustang up a gentle but icy grade to get to the work parking lot. I drove gingerly around him, the '05 Corolla as nimble as a billygoat. Such a fancy toy undone by a little ice!

Tires make all the difference.

[acepedro45]

RWD

You would know.

I wondered if he had summer tires as well.

[iris lily]

Perhaps it requires more concentration to understand the human language through a device compared to talking in person. The sound reproduction of a cell phone is not as good as a podcast made with a proper microphone.

For example I don't hear well in noisy environments like bars or restaurants. I turn into my great-grandmother (years go and double hearing aids) sitting on the edge of the conversation and just smiling b/c I don't understand 90% of what is being said. Put me in a quiet room and I can hear the paint dry.

I find the echo-y, tinny, sqeaking and cutting out quality of cell phones to be horrific. I do not understand why the majority of the populace puts up with it and even embraces it.

As to distraction in the car with passengers, when we are driving to a place I odten tell DH! The driver, “ok, now be quiet and lets concentrate on getting there” because he misses exits and etc. when coming hme that is not a porblem because those exist are automatic.

[alanB]

[...]the daughter got in an accident and totaled the car, so the daughter had to take out a car loan to buy another new car because the insurance payout on the first one wasn't enough.  This is your run of the mill story, except then my co-worker said, we didn't want her saddled with a new car loan but God had other plans. 

What??!

Unfortunately, it's easier to blame something external (even supernatural) than blame yourself or your family member and actually own your fuckups.

Hilarious, I am imagining the car buying experience must have gone like this:
"What kind of car are you looking for?"
"Oh it is not what we want, it is what God wants for us.  We are beholden to His plan and will sign whatever loan documents He has prepared for us as His humble servants."

I guess most people think "I had a new car, now I need a new-new car."  The same thing happened to a coworker of mine, new Audi totaled after like 6 months... so he bought the same car again. 

On the subject of cell phones, I have on numerous occasions heard people on conferences calls dial in while they are driving.  Risk your life to prove your dedication to your job!!  Who cares if it is illegal!!

[Dave1442397]

God recommends the Honda Accord.