Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 13252567 times)

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21100 on: November 21, 2018, 04:05:56 PM »
It's a good thing I don't need any of these for personal use and only have to deal with that stuff on a professional level. In general, I agree with @RWD: in most cases, OSS will be perfectly fine for personal use. There are some exceptions where the open source alternatives are either non-existent or utterly useless though, most notably Lightroom and Photoshop.

Lightroom and Photoshop are professional tools. I use nufraw and Gimp, though a quick search indicates a few other alternatives to Lightroom that I should look into. Having used both Gimp and Photoshop I can definitely say Gimp sucks. Photoshop is much more intuitive and powerful. But since I don't do much photo editing and certainly nothing professionally Gimp is sufficient for my needs. The Adobe products aren't a choice for me on Linux anyway.

jinga nation

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21101 on: November 21, 2018, 08:55:02 PM »
From a psychological point of view his justification actually makes sense. He doesn't see the vehicle as something that can be purchased and paid for but a recurring cost, like rent or a subscription. His mind simply can't grasp the fact that there's actually a price to be paid associated with that vehicle. Instead, he sees it as recurring perpetual subscription model.

From this point of view it makes perfect sense - if he sees his car as a subscription then why wouldn't he swap it for a brand-new one after two years assuming the payments remain the same? He's still paying the same subscription fee each month but instead of a 2-year old car he's getting a new one.

As braindead as this may sound to a normal person with even the most basic math skills: if you take away the fact that a car is something to be purchased and not something to be subscribed to then it makes perfect sense.
I seem to remember catching a commercial where a car company was actually suggesting a car subscription service that would operate just like this. It looks nuts to me, but there are so many people who can't consider life without a car payment so the concept makes sense.
Volvo?
I've read abstracts of studies where the conclusion is that people don't know what to do with that extra $300-500 each month when the car is paid off. They can't compute to put that into emergency savings or retirement funds or even a basic savings account.
It's the subscription economy.

jinga nation

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21102 on: November 21, 2018, 09:02:13 PM »
@russianswinga Oh wow, that is pretty bad. SolidWorks is not alone in this, though. Apparently, AutoDesk does the same with AutoCAD. Many companies are getting more and more creative in forcing businesses to purchase software they might not even need. For example, I was recently informed that Veeam only allows one license of their Veeam Essentials Standard for up to three hypervisors per company. If you have two sites with two virtualization servers each you need to either purchase the second Essentials Standard license under a different company name or you need to purchase the much more expensive Enterprise Standard license with features you might never ever need.

Which is why a lot of companies are moving their VM infrastructure to the cloud (AWS/Azure/GCP). They are tired of the constant dickeration with licensing, support contracts, etc. It really affects business budgets and hampers short-term projections. Tired of getting screwed by the hypervisor vendor, the storage vendor, the server vendor, the networking equipment vendor, the OS vendor, the database vendor, the AC vendor, the datacenter monitoring vendor, ad infinitum screwum.
Just pay for what you use in the cloud.

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21103 on: November 21, 2018, 11:50:18 PM »
Office 365

But that's a great value for your money, if you can leverage the family plan and want the online space for backups, at least :)

LibreOffice is free...

Nice how you have ignored the 1 TB of online storage for backups.
But we digress...

TomTX

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21104 on: November 22, 2018, 04:43:03 AM »
Even small software companies are moving away from one-time perpetual licensing to a subscription model, and this trend is going to continue.

It gets worse. We have a client that had SolidWorks 2013 (fully paid for). They were under support with SolidWorks until 2013 and received new versions annually. Unfortunately, SW 2013 doesn't run on Windows 10.
We place a call to several SW dealers, all state the same thing:
- Here's your price for SW 2019 and service through the next year ($5K or so)
- Here's your backbill for support from 2013 to 2019. ($20K)
Apparently Solidworks uses a new model that if you ever drop support, and need a new version anytime in the future, you will be fined for back support for all missed years you didn't use the software! The only way around that is a whole new business name (not an option in a 200 person well established company). They can and will blacklist you for a single missed year of support, until all (even unused) back support is paid.
At least Microsoft and Adobe don't charge you for the years you don't use them.
Holy crap.  That is awful.  Wow.  No words.
Time to start spawning wholly-owned subsidiary companies (on paper, 0 employees) for the purpose of buying licenses. Bullshit can run both ways.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21105 on: November 22, 2018, 07:06:12 AM »
From a psychological point of view his justification actually makes sense. He doesn't see the vehicle as something that can be purchased and paid for but a recurring cost, like rent or a subscription. His mind simply can't grasp the fact that there's actually a price to be paid associated with that vehicle. Instead, he sees it as recurring perpetual subscription model.

From this point of view it makes perfect sense - if he sees his car as a subscription then why wouldn't he swap it for a brand-new one after two years assuming the payments remain the same? He's still paying the same subscription fee each month but instead of a 2-year old car he's getting a new one.

As braindead as this may sound to a normal person with even the most basic math skills: if you take away the fact that a car is something to be purchased and not something to be subscribed to then it makes perfect sense.
I seem to remember catching a commercial where a car company was actually suggesting a car subscription service that would operate just like this. It looks nuts to me, but there are so many people who can't consider life without a car payment so the concept makes sense.

In my country, there's a very popular bike subscription service. You pay €15 a month for a basic bike or €20 for a luxury bike and you get the use of a bike. The bikes are all the same. When something breaks, you call the company, they drive to your location and swap the non-working bike for the same but working bike. You can call them for anything, they even fix your bike when you're too lazy to pump up your tire. You pay a €40 fine if your bike is stolen, but they aren't stolen often because they bikes all look the same and have a very recognizable design (blue tires and the company logo on the frame).

If you add it all up, it's a very expensive way to own a bike - a bike comparable to the basic model costs about €250 new and the luxury model is probably worth €450. Secondhand these bikes will be lots cheaper (but generally not as well-maintained). For a lot of people a perpetual €15 payment feels better than investing a couple of hundred euro up front + have unpredictable costs for maintenance. Maintenance can be done very cheaply at home, but fewer people than ever have these skills + the tools and space needed, and labour costs are high.

Hirondelle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21106 on: November 22, 2018, 07:31:39 AM »
Do you know many Dutch people with those bikes tho Imma? From my experience it's mostly international students getting them as they're not familiar with the 2nd hand biking market here upon arrival and have 0 bike maintenance knowledge. I also have to admit I'm also surprised at the ridiculous amounts of swapfietsen in my city and that I can't get my head around people paying €15/month if you can get a decent €75 bike for your 1 year exchange that you could potentially sell after..

For exchange students or people staying for an even shorter period of time it would make sense tho. Or as a quick emergency solution if your bike gets stolen - saving €15 on bus fees can be done within the few days it takes you to buy a new bike.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21107 on: November 22, 2018, 08:53:59 AM »
He has 2 cars on lease (a 2 year old corvette and a jacked up 4x4 truck) and lives with his parent, BUT he is 33, he should know better
Gah, every next word of that gets worse.
You’re not kidding. Wow.

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21108 on: November 22, 2018, 10:02:41 AM »
Wow. That is a pretty shitty thing to do. There are other CAD programs out there. I guess they are counting on the difficulty of converting to another to be a business most that allows them to treat their customers so poorly?

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21109 on: November 22, 2018, 11:43:58 AM »
Do you know many Dutch people with those bikes tho Imma? From my experience it's mostly international students getting them as they're not familiar with the 2nd hand biking market here upon arrival and have 0 bike maintenance knowledge. I also have to admit I'm also surprised at the ridiculous amounts of swapfietsen in my city and that I can't get my head around people paying €15/month if you can get a decent €75 bike for your 1 year exchange that you could potentially sell after..

For exchange students or people staying for an even shorter period of time it would make sense tho. Or as a quick emergency solution if your bike gets stolen - saving €15 on bus fees can be done within the few days it takes you to buy a new bike.

Half of the bikes in town seem to have blue tires these days, but only a few people I know personally use one. One of my neighbours does, she says she's just too lazy for maintenance - although I'm pretty sure owning is cheaper in the long run even if you outsource all maintenance. She's not a student, she's late 20s, I'm pretty sure she has some disposable income. She just wants to avoid the (perceived) hassle of owning a bike.

SansSkill

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21110 on: November 23, 2018, 01:29:09 AM »
Do you know many Dutch people with those bikes tho Imma? From my experience it's mostly international students getting them as they're not familiar with the 2nd hand biking market here upon arrival and have 0 bike maintenance knowledge. I also have to admit I'm also surprised at the ridiculous amounts of swapfietsen in my city and that I can't get my head around people paying €15/month if you can get a decent €75 bike for your 1 year exchange that you could potentially sell after..

For exchange students or people staying for an even shorter period of time it would make sense tho. Or as a quick emergency solution if your bike gets stolen - saving €15 on bus fees can be done within the few days it takes you to buy a new bike.

Half of the bikes in town seem to have blue tires these days, but only a few people I know personally use one. One of my neighbours does, she says she's just too lazy for maintenance - although I'm pretty sure owning is cheaper in the long run even if you outsource all maintenance. She's not a student, she's late 20s, I'm pretty sure she has some disposable income. She just wants to avoid the (perceived) hassle of owning a bike.

Yeah, I outsource most of my maintenance (except changing tires) and I just couldn't justify paying that much a month for a bike.
Curiously enough, I don't really see them a lot myself.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21111 on: November 23, 2018, 10:19:17 AM »
We have lots of plants around here with seeds that puncture bike tires. I don't have a bike but my kids do and it is quite a hassle to repair a punctured tube. Especially on the bike tire for my oldest son's 21-speed bike. The last few times it's probably taken half an hour to change, plus now the brake needs to be adjusted. I may very well take it to a bike shop next time. If I had a $15 per month option it would be tempting soley for the fact that I wouldn't need to deal with maintenance. My time is worth more than $15 an hour so avoiding even 30 minutes of maintenance would make it worthwhile.

runbikerun

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21112 on: November 23, 2018, 11:08:48 AM »
Have you tried fitting extremely puncture-resistant tyres? The likes of Continental Gatorskins or Schwalbe Marathons aren't cheap, but they're incredibly tough. Panaracer also do one that's ridiculously tough - my wife has a pair on her bike that have had no punctures since being fitted three years ago.

tyler2016

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21113 on: November 23, 2018, 11:49:32 AM »
Office 365

But that's a great value for your money, if you can leverage the family plan and want the online space for backups, at least :)

LibreOffice is free...

Nice how you have ignored the 1 TB of online storage for backups.
But we digress...

I would guess the most talented hackers on the planet are targeting Microsoft's cloud services. What is in the EULA about what they are doing with your backups? Are they mining the data you upload? Are the selling it to advertisers? Cloud backups are fine if you encrypt them before they leave your network with software they aren't providing the code for.

From my experience, there often isn't much difference in quality between FLOSS and proprietary software.

If you use an Apple or Android device, you use FLOSS. Even high end appliances such as F5 load balancers tend to run on Linux or FreeBSDs. F5s even hook into the Linux firewall to perform a lot of their functions. This forum is running on free software. The main blog is WordPress based, which is free software which is probably running on HTTPD or NGINX,  which are free software.

No, you don't always get what you pay for with software.

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21114 on: November 23, 2018, 12:12:13 PM »
Office 365

But that's a great value for your money, if you can leverage the family plan and want the online space for backups, at least :)

LibreOffice is free...

Nice how you have ignored the 1 TB of online storage for backups.
But we digress...

Sure, that has some value. Maybe ~$4/month in value, assuming you're needing a lot of cloud space. If you're just storing documents then there are a lot of free options in the 10 GB +/- range. 1 TB of cloud space is major overkill for most people.

I personally wouldn't put anything of importance on the cloud.

flipboard

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21115 on: November 23, 2018, 12:21:04 PM »
Have you tried fitting extremely puncture-resistant tyres? The likes of Continental Gatorskins or Schwalbe Marathons aren't cheap, but they're incredibly tough. Panaracer also do one that's ridiculously tough - my wife has a pair on her bike that have had no punctures since being fitted three years ago.
Schwalbe Durano is also pretty decent, that's my current tyre. Before that I had Gatorskins which survived for a long-time across various terrible places. I don't actually know which ones more durable, since I got the Durano's I moved to a place where the roads are clean and in good condition so I haven't really been taking advantage of their protection.

JAYSLOL

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21116 on: November 23, 2018, 10:35:04 PM »
And do any of them even need a truck to do actual truck things or is it just four wheels to go from A to B?

I'm sure like everyone else with a truck the bed only gets used 1-2% of the time. I've had my small pickup truck for about 1.5-2 years and I think I've moved stuff in the bed maybe 10 times total. Only a handful of those were things that wouldn't fit in a normal car (Christmas trees, mattresses, etc.).

My husband does landscaping/maintenance type stuff at work and is required to use his own vehicle (I hate his job/boss/company) so he does use the cargo area of his Jeep daily.  We considered buying a small used fleet truck for him, but he wanted to keep what he's got.

Is he a contractor or employee? Does anyone know if that is legal if he is an employee?

He's an employee.  Gets a W-2 at the end of the year.  This is actually the least of the issues I have with them.  His supervisor has been changing his time card and not paying him for hours he worked.  We're just having a hard time proving it.

Wow, this is so wrong.  As someone who does professional landscaping, this behaviour makes my blood boil.  We lose contracts frequently to guys like this who screw over their own employees or use other unfair practices to save money.  We never allow employees to use their personal vehicle for work, not even to travel between jobsites, all work travel must be done in a company vehicle for insurance/safety/liability reasons as well as professional appearance.  I really hope this supervisor gets a big dose of karma, and I hope your DH can find something better very soon.  If you are anywhere near me have DH hit me up in the spring about a landscaping job (company vehicle included)

Feivel2000

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21117 on: November 24, 2018, 02:53:22 AM »
Office 365

But that's a great value for your money, if you can leverage the family plan and want the online space for backups, at least :)

LibreOffice is free...

Nice how you have ignored the 1 TB of online storage for backups.
But we digress...

Sure, that has some value. Maybe ~$4/month in value, assuming you're needing a lot of cloud space. If you're just storing documents then there are a lot of free options in the 10 GB +/- range. 1 TB of cloud space is major overkill for most people.

I personally wouldn't put anything of importance on the cloud.

If you backup photos and videos, 10 GB probably won't cut it. The Golden Rule for backups is to have at least one at home and one somewhere else... If your backups burn together with your PC in that fire, you haven't won a lot. And I would trust the reliability of Microsofts Cloud Infrastructure more than I trust an external hard drive in my drawer...

And I just paid 49€ for a year of the family plan which can be shared with 5 others (who might compensate you for sharing).

If you make use of the offering and shop for deals, there is a lot of value in Office365. If you pay the normal 10€ per month and only use it to write a letter every few months, you are wasting your money.

Martini67

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21118 on: December 01, 2018, 05:55:48 PM »
Not from work but from younger friends:

Bought a new pug puppy from "Petland" just 2 days before going out of the country on vacation. Asked us to puppy sit because said puppy was not old enough to have had all shots so could not be boarded. Which we were ok with because we like dogs (have 2). They told us the PAYMENTS on the puppy were very reasonable and there as a warranty (i.e if puppy gets sick or dies they get a new one "free"). We called "Petland" just to see what the price was for a puppy like that, $1200!!!!  Plus it is most likely from a puppy mill, unfortunately those are rampant in Texas and that place is known for selling them.

Puppy payments..... (face palm!!!)

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21119 on: December 03, 2018, 09:25:24 AM »
The shelters are full of critters looking for a home. Have been surprised by a number of people who get a pet and then discard the pet b/c they only want the puppy/kitten experience or they decide 2-3 years down the road that they are tired of taking care of a animal.

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21120 on: December 03, 2018, 10:53:39 AM »
The shelters are full of critters looking for a home. Have been surprised by a number of people who get a pet and then discard the pet b/c they only want the puppy/kitten experience or they decide 2-3 years down the road that they are tired of taking care of a animal.

Who TF wants the puppy experience?  The housebreaking and training and chewing and losing of teeth (I didn't even know puppies did that!) and hyperactivity.  And then the stubborn teenage years?  Forget all that.  There's a reason that puppies are cute.  The ideal dog is about 2.5 years old is housebroken and has basic manners training. 

PrairieBeardstache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21121 on: December 03, 2018, 11:42:50 AM »
The shelters are full of critters looking for a home. Have been surprised by a number of people who get a pet and then discard the pet b/c they only want the puppy/kitten experience or they decide 2-3 years down the road that they are tired of taking care of a animal.

Who TF wants the puppy experience?  The housebreaking and training and chewing and losing of teeth (I didn't even know puppies did that!) and hyperactivity.  And then the stubborn teenage years?  Forget all that.  There's a reason that puppies are cute.  The ideal dog is about 2.5 years old is housebroken and has basic manners training.

For the 'Gram!

I'm only semi-joking. Anecdotally I do know several people who recently got dogs (I'm jealous, I want one) none of them were prepared or ready for the insane puppy months. I've had a few dogs growing up so I remember those days well.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21122 on: December 03, 2018, 11:44:46 AM »
The shelters are full of critters looking for a home. Have been surprised by a number of people who get a pet and then discard the pet b/c they only want the puppy/kitten experience or they decide 2-3 years down the road that they are tired of taking care of a animal.
Sadly, it doesn't surprise me.  How many kids ask for a puppy or a kitten for Christmas?  I know my kids do.  They're not getting one.  But how many parents give in to the pleading?

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21123 on: December 03, 2018, 12:17:35 PM »
The shelters are full of critters looking for a home. Have been surprised by a number of people who get a pet and then discard the pet b/c they only want the puppy/kitten experience or they decide 2-3 years down the road that they are tired of taking care of a animal.
Sadly, it doesn't surprise me.  How many kids ask for a puppy or a kitten for Christmas?  I know my kids do.  They're not getting one.  But how many parents give in to the pleading?
I have friends who have gotten puppies recently. 

One family was trying to adopt from a shelter program - we have friends in common who foster dogs.  The woman who runs the foster program is VERY particular about who is able to adopt.  My friend who does the fostering is pretty sure that she won't accept any family that doesn't come from the woman who runs the program.  (My fostering friend has recommended many families, who have been shut out.)  So...they got a puppy instead.  The puppy time is killing the mom, who is waking up in the middle of the night with the puppy.

My husband and kids would LOVE a dog.  But we are never home (gone from 8 to 5:30 every day).  I'm not getting a dog only to leave it alone.  And I'm kinda done with poop, to be honest.  Like my friend with the puppy, I know my kids - so excited at first but then it's my job to walk the dog and scoop the poop and vacuum the house. 

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21124 on: December 03, 2018, 02:05:09 PM »


One family was trying to adopt from a shelter program - we have friends in common who foster dogs.  The woman who runs the foster program is VERY particular about who is able to adopt.  My friend who does the fostering is pretty sure that she won't accept any family that doesn't come from the woman who runs the program.  (My fostering friend has recommended many families, who have been shut out.)  So...they got a puppy instead.  The puppy time is killing the mom, who is waking up in the middle of the night with the puppy.


When I was looking to adopt my current dog, I found out that it's not quite as easy as go to the shelter and pick out a dog.  Now, we were looking for a specific breed, so that kind of narrows it down, but we were turned off by the breed specific rescue that wanted a non-refundable $25 fee just to apply.  Others didn't even bother to reply to emails.  Another turned us down outright for not having a fenced in yard.  I finally went on Craigslist and found the perfect dog.  I wouldn't buy a puppy off CL, but an older dog who's next stop is likely the pound?  Sure. 

faithless

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21125 on: December 03, 2018, 04:22:51 PM »
Not from work but from younger friends:

Bought a new pug puppy from "Petland" just 2 days before going out of the country on vacation. Asked us to puppy sit because said puppy was not old enough to have had all shots so could not be boarded. ...
Puppy payments..... (face palm!!!)

How the hell are people who lack the foresight to recognise that it's a bad idea to get a dog, (especially a puppy) 2 days before leaving on holiday responsive enough to look after an animal?

Also, if they can't afford to buy it (puppy payments?!), how are they going to pay for its care?

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21126 on: December 03, 2018, 05:34:17 PM »


One family was trying to adopt from a shelter program - we have friends in common who foster dogs.  The woman who runs the foster program is VERY particular about who is able to adopt.  My friend who does the fostering is pretty sure that she won't accept any family that doesn't come from the woman who runs the program.  (My fostering friend has recommended many families, who have been shut out.)  So...they got a puppy instead.  The puppy time is killing the mom, who is waking up in the middle of the night with the puppy.


When I was looking to adopt my current dog, I found out that it's not quite as easy as go to the shelter and pick out a dog.  Now, we were looking for a specific breed, so that kind of narrows it down, but we were turned off by the breed specific rescue that wanted a non-refundable $25 fee just to apply.  Others didn't even bother to reply to emails.  Another turned us down outright for not having a fenced in yard.  I finally went on Craigslist and found the perfect dog.  I wouldn't buy a puppy off CL, but an older dog who's next stop is likely the pound?  Sure.
It's fascinating - this particular rescue group is a lady who rescues dogs from "high kill" shelters in a larger metropolitan area. She has several foster families to care for the dogs until they find homes.  The adoption fees can be steep - up to $750 - they go back into rescuing more pets.

I downloaded the adoption application, and there's a long laundry list of questions - not only must you have a fence, but it has to be a certain KIND of fence.  If it's a small dog, and the fence is not tight enough, you have to replace it.  If it's wooden fence, you have to reinforce it.  You MUST list how long the dog will be alone during the day.  You have to list all about your history with dogs and pets.


tralfamadorian

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21127 on: December 03, 2018, 05:54:10 PM »
Indeed. Those who run adoption programs are not doing any favors to the prevention of impulse mill puppy purchases by being so unreasonably restrictive. In my area, the SPCA is full of pit bulls and elderly hunting dogs who have never been house trained.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 10:59:26 AM by tralfamadorian »

Hirondelle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21128 on: December 04, 2018, 01:51:51 AM »


One family was trying to adopt from a shelter program - we have friends in common who foster dogs.  The woman who runs the foster program is VERY particular about who is able to adopt.  My friend who does the fostering is pretty sure that she won't accept any family that doesn't come from the woman who runs the program.  (My fostering friend has recommended many families, who have been shut out.)  So...they got a puppy instead.  The puppy time is killing the mom, who is waking up in the middle of the night with the puppy.


When I was looking to adopt my current dog, I found out that it's not quite as easy as go to the shelter and pick out a dog.  Now, we were looking for a specific breed, so that kind of narrows it down, but we were turned off by the breed specific rescue that wanted a non-refundable $25 fee just to apply.  Others didn't even bother to reply to emails.  Another turned us down outright for not having a fenced in yard.  I finally went on Craigslist and found the perfect dog.  I wouldn't buy a puppy off CL, but an older dog who's next stop is likely the pound?  Sure.
It's fascinating - this particular rescue group is a lady who rescues dogs from "high kill" shelters in a larger metropolitan area. She has several foster families to care for the dogs until they find homes.  The adoption fees can be steep - up to $750 - they go back into rescuing more pets.

I downloaded the adoption application, and there's a long laundry list of questions - not only must you have a fence, but it has to be a certain KIND of fence.  If it's a small dog, and the fence is not tight enough, you have to replace it.  If it's wooden fence, you have to reinforce it.  You MUST list how long the dog will be alone during the day.  You have to list all about your history with dogs and pets.

I wish they had a question list like that for people who actually buy puppies. Would prevent a lot of dogs from getting into shelters.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21129 on: December 04, 2018, 04:21:04 AM »
Instead. Those you run adoption programs are not doing any favors to the prevention of impulse mill puppy purchases by being so unreasonably restrictive. In my area, the SPCA is full of pit bulls and elderly hunting dogs who have never been house trained.

Yes, it's the same where Iive. We've wanted to adopt a dog for a while so we've been looking around for a bit. 75% of the dogs are 2-4 year old pitbull type dogs. They used to be cute puppies, no one bothered to train them properly and now they're adult dogs the owners feel they're getting too dangerous so they dump the dogs :( I feel really sorry for the dogs but it's not the type of dog I'd want to adopt.

That's what happens when people get a dog because it's cool, not because they want to be dog owners. The same goes for tiny handbag dogs but since those aren't that dangerous even when badly trained I guess they're easier to rehome.

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21130 on: December 04, 2018, 06:40:53 AM »


One family was trying to adopt from a shelter program - we have friends in common who foster dogs.  The woman who runs the foster program is VERY particular about who is able to adopt.  My friend who does the fostering is pretty sure that she won't accept any family that doesn't come from the woman who runs the program.  (My fostering friend has recommended many families, who have been shut out.)  So...they got a puppy instead.  The puppy time is killing the mom, who is waking up in the middle of the night with the puppy.


When I was looking to adopt my current dog, I found out that it's not quite as easy as go to the shelter and pick out a dog.  Now, we were looking for a specific breed, so that kind of narrows it down, but we were turned off by the breed specific rescue that wanted a non-refundable $25 fee just to apply.  Others didn't even bother to reply to emails.  Another turned us down outright for not having a fenced in yard.  I finally went on Craigslist and found the perfect dog.  I wouldn't buy a puppy off CL, but an older dog who's next stop is likely the pound?  Sure.
It's fascinating - this particular rescue group is a lady who rescues dogs from "high kill" shelters in a larger metropolitan area. She has several foster families to care for the dogs until they find homes.  The adoption fees can be steep - up to $750 - they go back into rescuing more pets.

I downloaded the adoption application, and there's a long laundry list of questions - not only must you have a fence, but it has to be a certain KIND of fence.  If it's a small dog, and the fence is not tight enough, you have to replace it.  If it's wooden fence, you have to reinforce it.  You MUST list how long the dog will be alone during the day.  You have to list all about your history with dogs and pets.

I wish they had a question list like that for people who actually buy puppies. Would prevent a lot of dogs from getting into shelters.


A good breeder (eg. someone who's probably losing money breeding dogs) will likely ask the same kind of questions.  A BYB , puppy mill, or someone with an oops litter probably won't. 

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21131 on: December 04, 2018, 09:59:59 AM »


One family was trying to adopt from a shelter program - we have friends in common who foster dogs.  The woman who runs the foster program is VERY particular about who is able to adopt.  My friend who does the fostering is pretty sure that she won't accept any family that doesn't come from the woman who runs the program.  (My fostering friend has recommended many families, who have been shut out.)  So...they got a puppy instead.  The puppy time is killing the mom, who is waking up in the middle of the night with the puppy.


When I was looking to adopt my current dog, I found out that it's not quite as easy as go to the shelter and pick out a dog.  Now, we were looking for a specific breed, so that kind of narrows it down, but we were turned off by the breed specific rescue that wanted a non-refundable $25 fee just to apply.  Others didn't even bother to reply to emails.  Another turned us down outright for not having a fenced in yard.  I finally went on Craigslist and found the perfect dog.  I wouldn't buy a puppy off CL, but an older dog who's next stop is likely the pound?  Sure.
It's fascinating - this particular rescue group is a lady who rescues dogs from "high kill" shelters in a larger metropolitan area. She has several foster families to care for the dogs until they find homes.  The adoption fees can be steep - up to $750 - they go back into rescuing more pets.

I downloaded the adoption application, and there's a long laundry list of questions - not only must you have a fence, but it has to be a certain KIND of fence.  If it's a small dog, and the fence is not tight enough, you have to replace it.  If it's wooden fence, you have to reinforce it.  You MUST list how long the dog will be alone during the day.  You have to list all about your history with dogs and pets.

I wish they had a question list like that for people who actually buy puppies. Would prevent a lot of dogs from getting into shelters.
I don't think we'd ever pass her screening because we've never had a dog.  My last dog was when I was 8.  My husband had a dog growing up too, but he's 50.

(Though like I said, we are never home.  I think it's cruel to get a dog and leave them at home 9.5 hours a day.  Though, I'm pretty sure that my two friends who bought puppies this year do just that.)

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21132 on: December 04, 2018, 11:06:31 AM »
(Though like I said, we are never home.  I think it's cruel to get a dog and leave them at home 9.5 hours a day.  Though, I'm pretty sure that my two friends who bought puppies this year do just that.)

If you want a dog, please don't let that type of thinking stop you.  There are a million dogs out there where being in your home alone for 9.5 hours a day, then having a loving human come home to them is infinitely better than their current living situation that they will probably end up dying in.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21133 on: December 04, 2018, 11:16:41 AM »
Yeah, I'm pretty sure my two shelter dogs greatly prefer hanging out on my bed or couch for 9.5 hours a day then on the concrete floor of the shelter.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21134 on: December 04, 2018, 11:18:08 AM »
(Though like I said, we are never home.  I think it's cruel to get a dog and leave them at home 9.5 hours a day.  Though, I'm pretty sure that my two friends who bought puppies this year do just that.)

If you want a dog, please don't let that type of thinking stop you.  There are a million dogs out there where being in your home alone for 9.5 hours a day, then having a loving human come home to them is infinitely better than their current living situation that they will probably end up dying in.

Wow, great post Ryan. Totally agree!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21135 on: December 04, 2018, 11:26:16 AM »
(Though like I said, we are never home.  I think it's cruel to get a dog and leave them at home 9.5 hours a day.  Though, I'm pretty sure that my two friends who bought puppies this year do just that.)
If you want a dog, please don't let that type of thinking stop you.  There are a million dogs out there where being in your home alone for 9.5 hours a day, then having a loving human come home to them is infinitely better than their current living situation that they will probably end up dying in.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure my two shelter dogs greatly prefer hanging out on my bed or couch for 9.5 hours a day then on the concrete floor of the shelter.
I'm completely biased, and I'm a huge dog lover. 

There are dogs that are perfectly content to sleep and hang out alone for 9.5 hours.  I've heard greyhounds are lazy.  With adopting a shelter dog, you could opt for an older dog.  They're usually a lot more chill, don't need as much exercise, and sleep a lot.

ketchup

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21136 on: December 04, 2018, 11:33:25 AM »
(Though like I said, we are never home.  I think it's cruel to get a dog and leave them at home 9.5 hours a day.  Though, I'm pretty sure that my two friends who bought puppies this year do just that.)
If you want a dog, please don't let that type of thinking stop you.  There are a million dogs out there where being in your home alone for 9.5 hours a day, then having a loving human come home to them is infinitely better than their current living situation that they will probably end up dying in.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure my two shelter dogs greatly prefer hanging out on my bed or couch for 9.5 hours a day then on the concrete floor of the shelter.
I'm completely biased, and I'm a huge dog lover. 

There are dogs that are perfectly content to sleep and hang out alone for 9.5 hours.  I've heard greyhounds are lazy.  With adopting a shelter dog, you could opt for an older dog.  They're usually a lot more chill, don't need as much exercise, and sleep a lot.
That makes sense.  I would not recommend a two year old Australian Shepherd.  And that's from someone with eight (at the moment) Australian Shepherds in the house.  They need to run run run every day.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21137 on: December 04, 2018, 11:41:30 AM »
There are dogs that are perfectly content to sleep and hang out alone for 9.5 hours.  I've heard greyhounds are lazy.  With adopting a shelter dog, you could opt for an older dog.  They're usually a lot more chill, don't need as much exercise, and sleep a lot.

Very much agreed.  I adopted a 14 year old rescue with an unknown but obviously very rough past (she was found abandoned in a field and seemed to have been on her own for a while, and had psychological signs of abuse).  Yes she spent the days home alone, sleeping and waiting for her human to come home, as dogs do.  But you could also see the appreciation on her, for finally being in a safe and loving home, and that appreciation never stopped growing as she learned to relax and trust me and her environment more.  No she didn't have free reign of 10 acres, or someone home with her all day every day, but I don't doubt for a minute that the last 3 years of her life were the best she had ever had.  And there are countless other dogs out there like that.  Don't let the lack of a perfect environment stop you from giving one of them a better home.  (This is to everyone here that might want a dog, not mm1970 specifically).

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21138 on: December 04, 2018, 12:17:16 PM »
There are dogs that are perfectly content to sleep and hang out alone for 9.5 hours.  I've heard greyhounds are lazy.  With adopting a shelter dog, you could opt for an older dog.  They're usually a lot more chill, don't need as much exercise, and sleep a lot.

Very much agreed.  I adopted a 14 year old rescue with an unknown but obviously very rough past (she was found abandoned in a field and seemed to have been on her own for a while, and had psychological signs of abuse).  Yes she spent the days home alone, sleeping and waiting for her human to come home, as dogs do.  But you could also see the appreciation on her, for finally being in a safe and loving home, and that appreciation never stopped growing as she learned to relax and trust me and her environment more.  No she didn't have free reign of 10 acres, or someone home with her all day every day, but I don't doubt for a minute that the last 3 years of her life were the best she had ever had.  And there are countless other dogs out there like that.  Don't let the lack of a perfect environment stop you from giving one of them a better home.  (This is to everyone here that might want a dog, not mm1970 specifically).
Your story warmed my heart!  Senior dogs are the sweetest!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21139 on: December 04, 2018, 12:34:32 PM »
I’m not at all a dog person but when I was in junior college I house sat/dog sat for a greyhound and a wolfhound. Those two were the most cat-like dogs I’ve ever had the pleasure to meet. They basically lazed around the house all day and then needed to go out once a day for a good run or walk. I’ve read that they make good apartment dogs for that reason. I highly doubt I will ever have a dog, but if I did, that would probably be what I would choose.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21140 on: December 04, 2018, 12:45:42 PM »
(Though like I said, we are never home.  I think it's cruel to get a dog and leave them at home 9.5 hours a day.  Though, I'm pretty sure that my two friends who bought puppies this year do just that.)
If you want a dog, please don't let that type of thinking stop you.  There are a million dogs out there where being in your home alone for 9.5 hours a day, then having a loving human come home to them is infinitely better than their current living situation that they will probably end up dying in.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure my two shelter dogs greatly prefer hanging out on my bed or couch for 9.5 hours a day then on the concrete floor of the shelter.
I'm completely biased, and I'm a huge dog lover. 

There are dogs that are perfectly content to sleep and hang out alone for 9.5 hours.  I've heard greyhounds are lazy.  With adopting a shelter dog, you could opt for an older dog.  They're usually a lot more chill, don't need as much exercise, and sleep a lot.
That makes sense.  I would not recommend a two year old Australian Shepherd.  And that's from someone with eight (at the moment) Australian Shepherds in the house.  They need to run run run every day.

We've had bird dogs that are content to lay around all day but they more or less demand a couple of miles of walking or running (when they are young). We live in an area where our dog can be off leash and she can dash around sniffing this or that without bothering anyone. I highly recommend living next to a pasture. Both of our dogs were shelter dogs too. Just the best family dogs.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21141 on: December 04, 2018, 12:56:09 PM »
One of my dogs is high maintenance- if I'm home, he wants to go in and out, in and out, and he runs like a bat out of hell around the 1/3 acre backyard.  He needs access to chew toys or can be destructive.  But when I'm gone, he curls up on my pillow and sleeps. We've watched him on the camera.

My other dog just wants to sleep all the time now that she's super old :)

Of course, both love a good walk.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21142 on: December 04, 2018, 01:16:28 PM »
My dog does the in-out-in-out thing too sometimes. I think it is the dog's version of hoping you'll come with 'em and go walk. My dog also likes to get between me and big noisy TV thing and stare at me until I'll do the evening walk. Sometimes includes impatient noises. A bike and a quiet lane is alot of fun.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21143 on: December 04, 2018, 01:54:39 PM »
(Though like I said, we are never home.  I think it's cruel to get a dog and leave them at home 9.5 hours a day.  Though, I'm pretty sure that my two friends who bought puppies this year do just that.)
If you want a dog, please don't let that type of thinking stop you.  There are a million dogs out there where being in your home alone for 9.5 hours a day, then having a loving human come home to them is infinitely better than their current living situation that they will probably end up dying in.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure my two shelter dogs greatly prefer hanging out on my bed or couch for 9.5 hours a day then on the concrete floor of the shelter.
I'm completely biased, and I'm a huge dog lover. 

There are dogs that are perfectly content to sleep and hang out alone for 9.5 hours.  I've heard greyhounds are lazy.  With adopting a shelter dog, you could opt for an older dog.  They're usually a lot more chill, don't need as much exercise, and sleep a lot.
That makes sense.  I would not recommend a two year old Australian Shepherd.  And that's from someone with eight (at the moment) Australian Shepherds in the house.  They need to run run run every day.

We've had bird dogs that are content to lay around all day but they more or less demand a couple of miles of walking or running (when they are young). We live in an area where our dog can be off leash and she can dash around sniffing this or that without bothering anyone. I highly recommend living next to a pasture. Both of our dogs were shelter dogs too. Just the best family dogs.
We're on a 200+ acre farm now with a house a mile off the road so they get plenty of time and space to run. :)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21144 on: December 05, 2018, 05:03:01 AM »
I applaud every single person/family who adopts an animal from the pet shelter ! My adopted cats (from a shelter)  have adopted a cat shelter and are making regular contributions.  I have developed a strange hobby. I buy fleece blankets from charity shops, launder them and then donate them to the animal shelter together with cookies and choccies for the volunteers. The volunteers at the shelter are always happy to receive them and can use more (together with cookies and chocolate as volunteers need love too).

Back to the thread: a coworker told me that she was moving from a mortgage free house to a larger house with 5 bedrooms and a garage and a mortgage. As it is a 2-person household with no pets, that was an interesting move. Her husband wanted to have a larger garage so that his 4 motorbikes can live inside the garage. At their current house, one of his motorbikes has to live outside as their garage is too small.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21145 on: December 05, 2018, 05:18:11 AM »
That fourth motorcycle is one 'spensive bike.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21146 on: December 05, 2018, 07:12:45 AM »
Jesus. Even by the standards of the MMM community, where it's perfectly normal to regard a new swimming pool as costing 200 dollars ah hour, the all-in costs for that fourth motorbike must be absolutely astronomical.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21147 on: December 05, 2018, 10:50:49 AM »
I bet the dog we have right now is part hunting dog, because when no one is home, he sleeps. Perfectly chill. But when people get home he is active and DOES very much want a walk and will remind us if we don't. When he was younger he would also get out of our backyard to take himself for walks. Now that he is older (11) he doesn't run away, but can't hold it like he used to. On long work days I'm having to either leave him outside or have ex come by to let him out. 

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21148 on: December 05, 2018, 10:53:03 AM »
That fourth motorcycle is one 'spensive bike.

I'll bet a custom detached garage is cheaper than a bigger house...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #21149 on: December 05, 2018, 11:12:14 AM »
On the dog topic - having adopted a lurcher two and a half years ago, I can confirm that sighthounds are the dog equivalent of cats. Ours spends most of her day lazing around, and can easily spend about 22 hours a day horizontal. I usually have to offer bribes to get her out of bed in the morning and go for a walk.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!