Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8899368 times)

Mesmoiselle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20850 on: September 07, 2018, 08:06:48 PM »
Well here in Australia there are plenty of 24" TVs for sale for about $200. That's about 10 hours' work at our minimum wage. This assumes you're buying new, of course.

So it's not like there aren't choices. Nobody's holding a gun to anyone's head and making them spend a month's wages on a TV.

Australia min wage is $20/hour? O.o

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20851 on: September 07, 2018, 09:52:23 PM »
I find this discussion about the evils of television is musing considering we are having that conversation via us all staring at our screens, small or otherwise.

sapphail

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20852 on: September 07, 2018, 10:36:57 PM »
Well here in Australia there are plenty of 24" TVs for sale for about $200. That's about 10 hours' work at our minimum wage. This assumes you're buying new, of course.

So it's not like there aren't choices. Nobody's holding a gun to anyone's head and making them spend a month's wages on a TV.

Australia min wage is $20/hour? O.o

That's not as much as it sounds, though. The cost of housing is bonkers in most of the capital cities, and everything else costs more than in the States (yay Australia tax).

Mesmoiselle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20853 on: September 08, 2018, 12:02:00 AM »
I find this discussion about the evils of television is musing considering we are having that conversation via us all staring at our screens, small or otherwise.

I see TV rather differently from a portable  telecommunication device I use primarily for self education and connecting to live people.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20854 on: September 08, 2018, 12:10:56 AM »
The cost of housing has risen because the cost of everything else has dropped, and household incomes have risen.

The Kangaroo Route, Sydney-London QANTAS flights, in 1947 took 78 hours and cost £585, when the minimum wage was about £10 a week. Now you can do that flight in less than a day and you can get it for $1,100 vs the minimum weekly wage of $700. So we've gone from more than a year's wage to a bit over a week's wage.

In 1977 the average male weekly wage was about $150, and a 24" TV cost $780. Now it's $1,600 (minimum $700) and $200. So we've gone from 6 weeks' wages to a day for a tv.

A roast chicken was $1.80, now it's $8; so minimum wage has gone up 5 times, average wage 10 times, and chicken 4 times. From an hour's work for a chicken to half an hour. It's a similar picture with other foods. So we're spending less on most necessities.

In 1966 we had under 90,000 university students nationally, compared to under 12 million people. Now we have 1.3 million students and 25 million people. So we've twice as many people but thirteen times as many university students. This also explains why the median wage is now more than twice the minimum wage, rather than 50% more. We're earning more as individuals.

In 1976 a bit under 30% of households were couples without children, and a bit under 50% couples with dependent children; now it's a bit under 40% and 40%. So that's 10% of households with less expenses. Guess what, more dual-income-no-kids professional couples pushes housing prices up.

In the early 1980s just over 40% of women with dependent children did paid work, now 65% of them do. So that's 25% of households with dependent children that can now have a higher income than they would have in the early 1980s. Even single mother families (who will struggle with balancing childcare and timing etc) have basically had the proportion of women doing paid work double in 40 years.


As well, in 1984 the average new home was 160m2 and 30 years later it was 240m2, with the average household size going from 3.0 to 2.5 in the same time. Homes are 50% larger in absolute terms, and doubled in size per person (about 50 to about 100m2 per person).

People are better-educated and thus earning more, more people are employed, more households have two income earners, and most goods and services are proportionally cheaper than they were a generation ago. So people have more cash to spend on housing to outbid others - and they want bigger places. And that's a large part of the reason for the increase in cost of housing: lots of people can afford it, and they want more.

Now, obviously people on minimum wage can rent but not buy housing, and people on pensions of various kinds struggle to even rent housing. But if you have a permanent full-time job in Australia on anything more than minimum wage, you are not really in a position to complain. Of course, the middle class like to complain, but that's another story.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 02:25:35 AM by Kyle Schuant »

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20855 on: September 09, 2018, 01:25:49 AM »
Sorry I disagree here. I doubt MMM watches any TV at all. TV is about as anti MMM as you can get. You sit on your arse slowly getting fatter, being fed your entertainment while your brain cells die horrible painful deaths absorbing commercials or product placements, subconsciously driving you towards paying for more shit that you don't need.

Not saying I don't watch any TV (mostly news and sport), but I recognise that makes me a bit unmustachian.

Coming here saying "I bought a TV and its kosher because I'm consciously deciding to spend money on it" is not MMM. That's simply basic budgeting for your circumstances.

I think MMM once wrote he didn't watch "normal" TV for month and only sometimes uses netflix.

I only watch "normal" (aka private) TV once a week or so, but state ones far more often (documentations). All in all 4 days a week?
Of course I also play computer games, which are an even greater time waste ;)

Yes, it is about concious choices. What is the best for you, not necessarily the cheapest option. And yes, that can even include butt-sitting mindless consuming once in a while.
If nothing else it tells you how f**** **** most people are who do this every day for several hours  "to relax from my stressy job".

Freedomin5

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20856 on: September 09, 2018, 07:04:29 PM »
Prelude: I'm in a somewhat specialized field and am regularly approached by headhunters and acquaintances in other companies to consider jumping ship.

Had this conversation at an industry dinner recently...

Acquaintance: Hey Fin5! I haven't seen you in forever!   
[This is true. I hate these schmooze-fests and only went this time because the food menu looked interesting and it was free]
Acquaintance: Are you still at BigCorp?
Me: Yes.
Acquaintance: Hey, you know, any time you want to consider leaving, just give me a shout. You know, you'll be doing the same thing that you're doing now, have plenty of freedom, but you'll be getting more pay.
Me: [smile, hoping I sound politely interested] Oh really? Okay.
Acquaintance: Yeah, I'm trying to really jazz up the group. I got a fashion director from Gucci to come and furnish our offices, so you know, [fakely modest] it will be a bit more comfortable than where you're at right now. I'm really working hard to make it more relevant to our customers and more up to date.
Me: [inane appropriate comment that I can't remember now]
Acquaintance: So yeah, I really think you should consider this opportunity.
Me: Okay, thanks. It would be full time, right?
Acquaintance: Yeah, just like your current job...you're currently full time, right?
Me: [non-committally] Yeah. Sure. Thanks.

I found it amusing that she thought the biggest selling points were:

1. That I would be working full-time, which in my industry means 50-60 hours per week, including weekends.
2. That I would be impressed by designer offices because that's the best way to spend company money.
3. That more money and prestige is what I am striving for.

Oh, and the food was only mediocre. I did get to connect with another acquaintance who is older and already retired and just doing consulting for fun, so that was nice. Other than that, the entire evening was spent listening to people surreptitiously toot their own horn, talk about how busy and special they were, and compare on-going projects. Very tiresome stuff.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20857 on: September 10, 2018, 12:46:58 AM »
Other than that, the entire evening was spent listening to people surreptitiously toot their own horn, talk about how busy and special they were, and compare on-going projects. Very tiresome stuff.

That is only because you had the wrong look on it. Put on your sociologist' goggles!

Look at this interesting bunhc of homo sapiens! How they all try to get to the top of the group's pecking order! And here, nice example of virtue signalling!
Hm.. okay, maybe still tiring, but a lot more fun!

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20858 on: September 10, 2018, 06:45:23 AM »
My company if forcing us, under the age of 53, to go over in another pension fund. We are currently in the government fund with a guaranteed payout for the rest of life, but will next year get a fund that we need to build up ourselves with a payout of we we put in. It came as a surprise for us that we wouldn't have a choice. We will get individual advise somewhere during next year.

I came to talk about this with my supervisor during lunch. She mentioned that she hadn't saved any other form of pension, beside the standard one. She was really nervous about what the change would bring. She said she had read that paying down your mortgage was the best investment you could make. I confirmed that it was a very safe investment, but that it was a much better investment when the interest was at 8%, like it was 15 years ago when I still had a mortgage. Now the interest is at 2,5%. I don't think she is paying down her mortgage faster than the standard payment each month.
I tried to comfort her a bit by saying that when her children have grown up, they will have a lot of money left, compared to what she spends today. This is the most expensive period in her life. She mentioned that she had started to put money in a stock fund. That was the amount she had earlier paid for after-school childcare. I asked if she had put it in a low cost index fund, but she didn't know that. Her husband works at a bank, so let's hope he has seen the light.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20859 on: September 10, 2018, 03:07:32 PM »
Dissonance that so many fellow mustachians are buying huge TVs....

I bought a compater monitor for $100 with built in speakers 3 years ago. Otherwise the last time I bought a TV was when I was young and dumb nearly a decade ago 40", that I sold for $250 when I moved 7 years ago. And before that...never.
What is huge?

I was going to get my husband a good sized flat screen 9 years ago for father's day.  Then, one of our cars was totaled in an accident.  Back then, the TV was about $3000 from Costco.  In June, coworkers asked me about the TV.  I said "uh, we got a new car in March.  No TV."  Kept on with the old big CRT TV.  I don't remember how long we waited before replacing it, but it was when the cost for a 37" had come down to less than $800.  Basically, the old TV couldn't hook up to many things.

Quote
I find this discussion about the evils of television is musing considering we are having that conversation via us all staring at our screens, small or otherwise.

That was my thought too.  Honestly, I don't really give a crap if MMM watches TV or not.  Like anything, yes you can have too much of a good/bad thing.

TV taught me how to cook.  Saturday mornings back when the food network showed cooking shows.
TV is how I do some of my workouts - most of them when my husband is traveling.  I get to watch Tony, or Autumn, or Vytas show me how to lift, squat, or do yoga.  And I get to do it  on a screen that my 48-year old eyes can see, in a space that's large enough for me to do it (in other words, not trying to stare at a computer screen).
TV allows a weekly snuggle-fest on movie night.

We got rid of cable years ago.  That doesn't mean I don't enjoy documentaries, movies, odd British TV shows and cooking shows from time to time.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 03:13:36 PM by mm1970 »

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20860 on: September 10, 2018, 03:33:23 PM »
I find this discussion about the evils of television is musing considering we are having that conversation via us all staring at our screens, small or otherwise.

What about those of us who are blind?

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20861 on: September 10, 2018, 10:02:10 PM »
I find this discussion about the evils of television is musing considering we are having that conversation via us all staring at our screens, small or otherwise.

What about those of us who are blind?
You got me there. Do those folks get a “get out of jail free” card?

Paul der Krake

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20862 on: September 10, 2018, 10:08:31 PM »
I find this discussion about the evils of television is musing considering we are having that conversation via us all staring at our screens, small or otherwise.

What about those of us who are blind?
You got me there. Do those folks get a “get out of jail free” card?
Ever notice how there are never any blind criminals in the news?

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20863 on: September 10, 2018, 10:37:19 PM »
I find this discussion about the evils of television is musing considering we are having that conversation via us all staring at our screens, small or otherwise.

What about those of us who are blind?
You got me there. Do those folks get a “get out of jail free” card?
Ever notice how there are never any blind criminals in the news?

Ever notice how liberals only believe in free speech when
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 10:46:31 PM by dragoncar »

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20864 on: September 11, 2018, 01:50:00 AM »
I find this discussion about the evils of television is musing considering we are having that conversation via us all staring at our screens, small or otherwise.

What about those of us who are blind?
You got me there. Do those folks get a “get out of jail free” card?
Ever notice how there are never any blind criminals in the news?

Ever notice how liberals only believe in free speech when
Ever notive how alt-right always say businesses can do business with whomever they want, but when they decide to not do business with Alex Jones...

Humans are so subjective!

ixtap

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20865 on: September 11, 2018, 06:35:00 AM »
I find this discussion about the evils of television is musing considering we are having that conversation via us all staring at our screens, small or otherwise.

I see TV rather differently from a portable  telecommunication device I use primarily for self education and connecting to live people.

The only thing we have done with the TV since we bought it a few weeks ago is watch documentaries on YouTube.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20866 on: September 11, 2018, 08:09:27 AM »
Sorry I disagree here. I doubt MMM watches any TV at all. TV is about as anti MMM as you can get. You sit on your arse slowly getting fatter, being fed your entertainment while your brain cells die horrible painful deaths absorbing commercials or product placements, subconsciously driving you towards paying for more shit that you don't need.

Not saying I don't watch any TV (mostly news and sport), but I recognise that makes me a bit unmustachian.

Coming here saying "I bought a TV and its kosher because I'm consciously deciding to spend money on it" is not MMM. That's simply basic budgeting for your circumstances.

I think MMM once wrote he didn't watch "normal" TV for month and only sometimes uses netflix.

I only watch "normal" (aka private) TV once a week or so, but state ones far more often (documentations). All in all 4 days a week?
Of course I also play computer games, which are an even greater time waste ;)

Yes, it is about concious choices. What is the best for you, not necessarily the cheapest option. And yes, that can even include butt-sitting mindless consuming once in a while.
If nothing else it tells you how f**** **** most people are who do this every day for several hours  "to relax from my stressy job".

What the heck is "normal" TV? Why is Netflix okay to watch, but whatever "normal" TV is isn't? (I've never understood why Netflix seems to get a pass, both as a pay subscription service and as a time-suck of television. It's the same thing as TV.)
You define "normal" tv as private- what does that mean?  What is private TV? Does that mean paid? Isn't netflix private?

We only have access to public channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, a few others)- is that not normal TV?

With my toddler, I rarely watch TV anymore. Our TVs are mostly used to play video games on.  Mostly because I haven't gotten into any shows in years. Maybe I'm just getting old, but it all seems like crap. That includes Netflix- we don't subscribe to it, but occasionally friends login at our house so we see what is available.  I do still have a lot of older DVDs I like to watch, but we don't want it on around our toddler.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20867 on: September 11, 2018, 08:16:32 AM »
Ever notive how alt-right always say businesses can do business with whomever they want, but when they decide to not do business with Alex Jones...
I think those on the other side would counter by pointing out Masterpiece Cake Shop, and that Twitter has an outsized, nearly monopolistic, marketshare, and claims to be (trying to be) politically neutral.

Aaaaanyway, let's get back to making fun of our spendypants colleagues!

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20868 on: September 11, 2018, 08:43:24 AM »
Sort of "at work". Saw a contractor/service pickup truck this morn. On the sides his logo and phone number. On the back bumper: "How's my driving? 1-800-Eat-S***.

No asterisks on the bumpersticker of course. Doesn't seem like a great way to attract business. A sizeable portion of the population here are very religious here and take offense at all sort of things. Maybe that is the contractor's filter mechanism for avoiding those folks.

Nuther story: At work this morn. IT support says coworker's year old printer isn't supported by Win10. Our department needs to replace it. Yet right there on the brand's support page there are 64-bit Win10 printer drivers. Hmmm... Not my money but is my budget and don't want to spend it willy nilly.   

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20869 on: September 11, 2018, 09:23:26 AM »
What the heck is "normal" TV? Why is Netflix okay to watch, but whatever "normal" TV is isn't? (I've never understood why Netflix seems to get a pass, both as a pay subscription service and as a time-suck of television. It's the same thing as TV.)
"Normal" TV is "TV with advertisements on it.". The appeal of Netflix over TV is that Netflix does not show advertisements between programs, advertising represents a temptation away from Mustachian living, QED Netflix is better than TV.
Also, because there is no additional charge for staying logged in at multiple addresses, savvy Netflix users find someone already paying for Netflix, and get permission to watch shows while their friend is at work/asleep. 

jinga nation

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20870 on: September 11, 2018, 11:45:47 AM »
What the heck is "normal" TV? Why is Netflix okay to watch, but whatever "normal" TV is isn't? (I've never understood why Netflix seems to get a pass, both as a pay subscription service and as a time-suck of television. It's the same thing as TV.)
"Normal" TV is "TV with advertisements on it.". The appeal of Netflix over TV is that Netflix does not show advertisements between programs, advertising represents a temptation away from Mustachian living, QED Netflix is better than TV.
Also, because there is no additional charge for staying logged in at multiple addresses, savvy Netflix users find someone already paying for Netflix, and get permission to watch shows while their friend is at work/asleep.
Netflix testing to become normal and mainstream: https://bgr.com/2018/08/22/opt-out-of-netflix-ads-experiment/

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20871 on: September 11, 2018, 01:32:57 PM »
What the heck is "normal" TV? Why is Netflix okay to watch, but whatever "normal" TV is isn't? (I've never understood why Netflix seems to get a pass, both as a pay subscription service and as a time-suck of television. It's the same thing as TV.)

I’m not sure I’d give it a pass, but try to remember how the television became the “boob tube”.  Some people just turn on the TV and plop on the couch and watch whatever BS comes on.  People still do, and if you ever visit a household like that you see how toxic it is to have a TV playing in the background 24/7.

Netflix, at least, is intentional.  You have to pick a show.  When it ends, the next episode might automatically play, but it’s not like you start watching one episode of Seinfeld and then keep watching Maury povich just because it was up next

russianswinga

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20872 on: September 11, 2018, 03:14:07 PM »
Purchased an OLED TV this month to replace our aging plasma. Note: we do not have "TV", we use amazon prime, youtube, rutube, and other streaming services for entertainment, as well as gaming.

Plasma - 58", bought in 2007 for $1800 at Costco. Kept through all this time. Worked great, but consumed about 700W. Lasted 11 years and over 15,000 hours, and I still managed to sell it for $100.

OLED - 65", bought in 2018, 2017 model year, was a store example w/ about 600 hours on the clock. Retail on one of these in a box is still $2500, we bought ours for $1500 and Fry's Electronics even threw in a 2-year warranty. I had a SlickDeals alert for any 65" OLED units being sold anywhere in the continental US for less than $2000, and got notified when Fry's was doing its display model blowout.
We bought OLED for its literally perfect blacks and perfect 180 degree viewing angle. TV supports 4K and HDR footage, which looks absolutely glorious. Photos of side viewing angles attached.
Here's hoping it will last us another 10+ years.

- Sidenote - a 65" TV in a small-ish living room in a frugal townhouse condo looks HUGE and really fills the volume. So it's all about perspective. We were specifically going for large TV in a small space.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20873 on: September 11, 2018, 03:45:57 PM »
I’m not sure I’d give it a pass, but try to remember how the television became the “boob tube”.  Some people just turn on the TV and plop on the couch and watch whatever BS comes on.  People still do, and if you ever visit a household like that you see how toxic it is to have a TV playing in the background 24/7.
Yep definitely still happens. In my experience these people are usually massive slobs too.

Prairie Stash

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20874 on: September 11, 2018, 05:03:52 PM »

What the heck is "normal" TV? Why is Netflix okay to watch, but whatever "normal" TV is isn't? (I've never understood why Netflix seems to get a pass, both as a pay subscription service and as a time-suck of television. It's the same thing as TV.)
Normal TV is OTA and is free. Most people can't understand the concept of Free TV. They default to Cable as normal because they have never gone without paying to watch TV. 


OTA - Free (normal)
Cable - what most people consider Normal

If you start with the assumption that paying for TV is normal, NetFlix seems like a great deal. I imagine there are lots of people on this forum who have never gone without paying for TV, cable, amazon prime, netflix or even internet streaming (don't pretend wifi is free).

I pay for Netflix every month. It's a luxury that I indulge in alongside my bunny ear TV. When I was young I didn't have NetFlix (same 2 channels for OTA that I have today) and spent more time outside.

Steeze

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20875 on: September 11, 2018, 08:13:14 PM »
I have no cable, no netflix, nothing, just a digital antenna for OTA. I have a 55" TV i bought a few years ago that I turn on about 10 hrs a year. At the time I was using it for xbox, but i do not use that anymore either. Just sits on the shelf and collects dust.

Growing up my family had the TV on all day long. Before I woke up until after I went to sleep. TV in every bedroom. We watched an INSANE amount of TV, hours and hours a day. On top of that I was a serious video game addict for a long time. When I was in college I lived in a house with no TV for a year and it was life changing. A couple years later I was watching the Superbowl with a bunch of people and having so many people in one room staring mindlessly at the TV not communicating with each other for long periods of time really freaked me out. Haven't watched TV since really - the brain washing aspect of it is too much for me. Luckily my wife does not watch TV or movies either.

Finally on a low/no media & no social media lifestyle. I do read the news feed on google, read MMM forums, and BiggerPockets forums daily. Otherwise it is just getting info 2nd hand from people at work.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20876 on: September 12, 2018, 01:29:23 AM »
My employer has made an app that you can install on your mobile phone. The job offers mobile phones, which are heavily taxed. I have a 4 year old private mobile phone that is now so old, that it doesn't get supported by those apps. Fine for me, I don't need these apps, because I don't want to read work e-mail at home on my phone. But according to one of the managers in my department, I should wish for a new phone for Christmas, so I can install those apps. No way.

runbikerun

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20877 on: September 12, 2018, 02:27:33 AM »
There's something remarkably obnoxious about hinting that you should spend your own money to make it easier for your employer to reach you outside of working hours. I've just started a new role with my employer that requires that I be reachable when not in the office, but they handed me a phone and a laptop on day one.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20878 on: September 12, 2018, 08:39:17 AM »
My employer has made an app that you can install on your mobile phone. The job offers mobile phones, which are heavily taxed. I have a 4 year old private mobile phone that is now so old, that it doesn't get supported by those apps. Fine for me, I don't need these apps, because I don't want to read work e-mail at home on my phone. But according to one of the managers in my department, I should wish for a new phone for Christmas, so I can install those apps. No way.

The app my employer uses is too large for my phone, even if I delete every single other app on it. I think it is also no longer supported, but it might have been supported last year on the operating system.

So a year ago I told them I'd no longer get email on my phone.  My boss put in for me to get a company issued phone (they used to do that for everyone)- but was told I don't qualify.
So I don't get emails on my phone.  I'm pretty happy with that.

I am willing to receive texts and calls on my personal phone even though I no longer get the BYOD supplement.

JoJo

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20879 on: September 12, 2018, 10:33:00 AM »
I have no cable, no netflix, nothing, just a digital antenna for OTA. I have a 55" TV i bought a few years ago that I turn on about 10 hrs a year. At the time I was using it for xbox, but i do not use that anymore either. Just sits on the shelf and collects dust.

Growing up my family had the TV on all day long. Before I woke up until after I went to sleep. TV in every bedroom. We watched an INSANE amount of TV, hours and hours a day. On top of that I was a serious video game addict for a long time. When I was in college I lived in a house with no TV for a year and it was life changing. A couple years later I was watching the Superbowl with a bunch of people and having so many people in one room staring mindlessly at the TV not communicating with each other for long periods of time really freaked me out. Haven't watched TV since really - the brain washing aspect of it is too much for me. Luckily my wife does not watch TV or movies either.

Finally on a low/no media & no social media lifestyle. I do read the news feed on google, read MMM forums, and BiggerPockets forums daily. Otherwise it is just getting info 2nd hand from people at work.


I just moved 4 miles and went from having 25+ OTA channels to 0!  Sucks big time.  I used to be able to see all of the antennas from my house, now I guess there's a hill in between?  Is there anyway to get reception will hills between antenna & house?  Maybe a better antenna?  My antenna is one of the old style rabbit ears.  Worked fine at my old place.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20880 on: September 12, 2018, 10:49:37 AM »
I have no cable, no netflix, nothing, just a digital antenna for OTA. I have a 55" TV i bought a few years ago that I turn on about 10 hrs a year. At the time I was using it for xbox, but i do not use that anymore either. Just sits on the shelf and collects dust.

Growing up my family had the TV on all day long. Before I woke up until after I went to sleep. TV in every bedroom. We watched an INSANE amount of TV, hours and hours a day. On top of that I was a serious video game addict for a long time. When I was in college I lived in a house with no TV for a year and it was life changing. A couple years later I was watching the Superbowl with a bunch of people and having so many people in one room staring mindlessly at the TV not communicating with each other for long periods of time really freaked me out. Haven't watched TV since really - the brain washing aspect of it is too much for me. Luckily my wife does not watch TV or movies either.

Finally on a low/no media & no social media lifestyle. I do read the news feed on google, read MMM forums, and BiggerPockets forums daily. Otherwise it is just getting info 2nd hand from people at work.


I just moved 4 miles and went from having 25+ OTA channels to 0!  Sucks big time.  I used to be able to see all of the antennas from my house, now I guess there's a hill in between?  Is there anyway to get reception will hills between antenna & house?  Maybe a better antenna?  My antenna is one of the old style rabbit ears.  Worked fine at my old place.

In the old analog broadcast days, distance from the tower would introduce progressively fuzzier reception on TVs. In the digital era, there's a "sharp cliff." Reception is crystal clear out to a certain point where it drops out completely. If the problem is not distance (verifiable via a site like antennaweb.org) then look out for obstacles that interfere with electromagnetic line-of-sight -- buildings, metal (window films, radiant barrier), and leafy tree canopies (high water content).

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20881 on: September 12, 2018, 11:10:43 AM »
I have no cable, no netflix, nothing, just a digital antenna for OTA. I have a 55" TV i bought a few years ago that I turn on about 10 hrs a year. At the time I was using it for xbox, but i do not use that anymore either. Just sits on the shelf and collects dust.

Growing up my family had the TV on all day long. Before I woke up until after I went to sleep. TV in every bedroom. We watched an INSANE amount of TV, hours and hours a day. On top of that I was a serious video game addict for a long time. When I was in college I lived in a house with no TV for a year and it was life changing. A couple years later I was watching the Superbowl with a bunch of people and having so many people in one room staring mindlessly at the TV not communicating with each other for long periods of time really freaked me out. Haven't watched TV since really - the brain washing aspect of it is too much for me. Luckily my wife does not watch TV or movies either.

Finally on a low/no media & no social media lifestyle. I do read the news feed on google, read MMM forums, and BiggerPockets forums daily. Otherwise it is just getting info 2nd hand from people at work.


I just moved 4 miles and went from having 25+ OTA channels to 0!  Sucks big time.  I used to be able to see all of the antennas from my house, now I guess there's a hill in between?  Is there anyway to get reception will hills between antenna & house?  Maybe a better antenna?  My antenna is one of the old style rabbit ears.  Worked fine at my old place.

Our antenna is about the size of a small car, and we also have an extender. That allows us to get 5 OTA channels.  For a long time we kept it in our basement utility room, and I'd pull it out into the living room for NBC (who carry my favorite sport)- 8 times a year.  Now it is under our deck.


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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20882 on: September 12, 2018, 11:51:46 AM »
I have no cable, no netflix, nothing, just a digital antenna for OTA. I have a 55" TV i bought a few years ago that I turn on about 10 hrs a year. At the time I was using it for xbox, but i do not use that anymore either. Just sits on the shelf and collects dust.

Growing up my family had the TV on all day long. Before I woke up until after I went to sleep. TV in every bedroom. We watched an INSANE amount of TV, hours and hours a day. On top of that I was a serious video game addict for a long time. When I was in college I lived in a house with no TV for a year and it was life changing. A couple years later I was watching the Superbowl with a bunch of people and having so many people in one room staring mindlessly at the TV not communicating with each other for long periods of time really freaked me out. Haven't watched TV since really - the brain washing aspect of it is too much for me. Luckily my wife does not watch TV or movies either.

Finally on a low/no media & no social media lifestyle. I do read the news feed on google, read MMM forums, and BiggerPockets forums daily. Otherwise it is just getting info 2nd hand from people at work.


I just moved 4 miles and went from having 25+ OTA channels to 0!  Sucks big time.  I used to be able to see all of the antennas from my house, now I guess there's a hill in between?  Is there anyway to get reception will hills between antenna & house?  Maybe a better antenna?  My antenna is one of the old style rabbit ears.  Worked fine at my old place.

Go to antennaweb.org. Plug in your address, shop for the color-coded antenna type that matches your viewing preferences/TV stations.
SolidSignal.com is a good place to buy antennas. You may need a pre-amp.

I have an outdoor antenna sitting in my attic, strong enough to pick up signals form 25-35 miles away. No pre-amp for me.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20883 on: September 12, 2018, 12:03:27 PM »
Antenna gain(roughly size), height above ground are crucial.

A high gain antenna is directional, so use tvfool.com and do a"signal analysis" to get radar plot to determine pointing directions.

Don't believe the claims that a palm sized device will pull a signal in.  It _might_ help in urban areas.

For one months cable cost , you can buy the biggest antenna winguard sells.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20884 on: September 12, 2018, 12:08:44 PM »
There's something remarkably obnoxious about hinting that you should spend your own money to make it easier for your employer to reach you outside of working hours. I've just started a new role with my employer that requires that I be reachable when not in the office, but they handed me a phone and a laptop on day one.
I'm old enough to remember this shift.  20 years ago, I worked for a company that had pagers, and in certain positions you were required to have one.

Of course, I didn't have a cell phone, so I often found myself looking for a pay phone near the farmer's market on Saturday morning.  It stressed me out.  I blew up at my husband one day because he wanted to go to a movie with me and I realized - belatedly - the world won't end if I leave the damn thing at home for 3 hours.

I trained the folks when they called me to figure things out for themselves.  Calling me is a last resort.

Then eventually I got a cell phone.  For awhile, the companies that I worked for would, if you requested it, pay $20 a month towards your bill if you were using it for work.  Eventually both companies stopped doing that.

I still, to this day, do not have my work email on my cell phone (and it's gmail, so it would be easy).  Only two of my coworkers (who used to be my bosses) have my cell phone number.  Yes I am a dinosaur.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20885 on: September 12, 2018, 12:11:10 PM »
I have no cable, no netflix, nothing, just a digital antenna for OTA. I have a 55" TV i bought a few years ago that I turn on about 10 hrs a year. At the time I was using it for xbox, but i do not use that anymore either. Just sits on the shelf and collects dust.

Growing up my family had the TV on all day long. Before I woke up until after I went to sleep. TV in every bedroom. We watched an INSANE amount of TV, hours and hours a day. On top of that I was a serious video game addict for a long time. When I was in college I lived in a house with no TV for a year and it was life changing. A couple years later I was watching the Superbowl with a bunch of people and having so many people in one room staring mindlessly at the TV not communicating with each other for long periods of time really freaked me out. Haven't watched TV since really - the brain washing aspect of it is too much for me. Luckily my wife does not watch TV or movies either.

Finally on a low/no media & no social media lifestyle. I do read the news feed on google, read MMM forums, and BiggerPockets forums daily. Otherwise it is just getting info 2nd hand from people at work.


I just moved 4 miles and went from having 25+ OTA channels to 0!  Sucks big time.  I used to be able to see all of the antennas from my house, now I guess there's a hill in between?  Is there anyway to get reception will hills between antenna & house?  Maybe a better antenna?  My antenna is one of the old style rabbit ears.  Worked fine at my old place.
My house has zero cell reception (we are on the side of a hill), so I still have a land line.
And there is only a single OTA station that we can get here.  So we don't bother.  We have internet.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20886 on: September 12, 2018, 12:29:25 PM »
Sorry I disagree here. I doubt MMM watches any TV at all. TV is about as anti MMM as you can get. You sit on your arse slowly getting fatter, being fed your entertainment while your brain cells die horrible painful deaths absorbing commercials or product placements, subconsciously driving you towards paying for more shit that you don't need.

Not saying I don't watch any TV (mostly news and sport), but I recognise that makes me a bit unmustachian.

Coming here saying "I bought a TV and its kosher because I'm consciously deciding to spend money on it" is not MMM. That's simply basic budgeting for your circumstances.

I think MMM once wrote he didn't watch "normal" TV for month and only sometimes uses netflix.

I only watch "normal" (aka private) TV once a week or so, but state ones far more often (documentations). All in all 4 days a week?
Of course I also play computer games, which are an even greater time waste ;)

Yes, it is about concious choices. What is the best for you, not necessarily the cheapest option. And yes, that can even include butt-sitting mindless consuming once in a while.
If nothing else it tells you how f**** **** most people are who do this every day for several hours  "to relax from my stressy job".

What the heck is "normal" TV? Why is Netflix okay to watch, but whatever "normal" TV is isn't? (I've never understood why Netflix seems to get a pass, both as a pay subscription service and as a time-suck of television. It's the same thing as TV.)
You define "normal" tv as private- what does that mean?  What is private TV? Does that mean paid? Isn't netflix private?

We only have access to public channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, a few others)- is that not normal TV?

With my toddler, I rarely watch TV anymore. Our TVs are mostly used to play video games on.  Mostly because I haven't gotten into any shows in years. Maybe I'm just getting old, but it all seems like crap. That includes Netflix- we don't subscribe to it, but occasionally friends login at our house so we see what is available.  I do still have a lot of older DVDs I like to watch, but we don't want it on around our toddler.

As LennStar is from Europe, I assume normal/private TV is commercial TV instead of public.

We have a 40 inch screen now, but we've never had a TV subscription. My s/o is a gamer and we share a Netflix account with a relative (which we pay €6 month for). I think what's on Netflix is different in every country as well, but in my country there's plenty of non-crap on Netflix (although you're right there is plenty of crap on it, that we do not watch). There are lots of good documentaries on Netflix. I always make sure I have something to do while watching, like some hand sewing, darning, or peeling vegetables. I know that makes me sound like an old lady, but it's the truth :)

All public TV shows are available online where I live and there's only one show I always watch - but whenever it suits me, not on a set time every week. Other than that I might watch the (public) documentary channel when I'm not feeling well. I have a chronic illness so I spend a bit more time than others feeling not so sick I want to stay in bed but not well enough to get up and do something.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20887 on: September 13, 2018, 08:34:35 AM »
My employer has made an app that you can install on your mobile phone. The job offers mobile phones, which are heavily taxed. I have a 4 year old private mobile phone that is now so old, that it doesn't get supported by those apps. Fine for me, I don't need these apps, because I don't want to read work e-mail at home on my phone. But according to one of the managers in my department, I should wish for a new phone for Christmas, so I can install those apps. No way.

At my old work, back when people with cell phones were still a minority, the owner kept bugging the director of operations to get one.  He insisted he didn't need it.  She offered to buy him one. He still declined.  "But I can never get ahold of you when you're not at work!"
He just looked at her for a couple of seconds, then answered, "Right."

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20888 on: September 13, 2018, 09:48:52 AM »
There's something remarkably obnoxious about hinting that you should spend your own money to make it easier for your employer to reach you outside of working hours. I've just started a new role with my employer that requires that I be reachable when not in the office, but they handed me a phone and a laptop on day one.
I'm old enough to remember this shift.  20 years ago, I worked for a company that had pagers, and in certain positions you were required to have one.

Of course, I didn't have a cell phone, so I often found myself looking for a pay phone near the farmer's market on Saturday morning.  It stressed me out.  I blew up at my husband one day because he wanted to go to a movie with me and I realized - belatedly - the world won't end if I leave the damn thing at home for 3 hours.

I trained the folks when they called me to figure things out for themselves.  Calling me is a last resort.

Then eventually I got a cell phone.  For awhile, the companies that I worked for would, if you requested it, pay $20 a month towards your bill if you were using it for work.  Eventually both companies stopped doing that.

I still, to this day, do not have my work email on my cell phone (and it's gmail, so it would be easy).  Only two of my coworkers (who used to be my bosses) have my cell phone number.  Yes I am a dinosaur.

The erosion of the boundary between home/work life is, of course, a symptom of the imbalance of power between capital and labor; the employer wants to squeeze uncompensated value from their employees.  I think the boundary you've set up is healthy and I resist the idea that it's an outdated, dinosaur attitude. I'm young, and I catch a lot of shit at work for not making myself available 24/7.  But I signed a contract when I was hired that says my hours are 9-5.  If they want me to work beyond those hours, they have to compensate me.  My coworkers make themselves available at all times and frown on my refusal to do this, so there's pressure from all sides.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20889 on: September 13, 2018, 12:36:56 PM »
My employer forced me to take a cell phone from them even though I told them I wouldn't use it past 5:00 pm. They insisted. I used it a few times, mostly when I was working at events and legitimately wanted to check my email. I moved to a different position and never needed the phone again. Tried to give it back, they refused. I told them I haven't used it, it is sitting, battery dead in a drawer. They kept saying keep it, 'just in case.' In sat in a drawer, unused, but being paid for, for over two years. Despite my periodic reminder that I never use it. They finally cancelled it around the 2.5 year mark. This was also during the time period where they said they couldn't find $400 in the budget to get me a standing desk ....

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20890 on: September 13, 2018, 12:51:28 PM »
My employer forced me to take a cell phone from them even though I told them I wouldn't use it past 5:00 pm. They insisted. I used it a few times, mostly when I was working at events and legitimately wanted to check my email. I moved to a different position and never needed the phone again. Tried to give it back, they refused. I told them I haven't used it, it is sitting, battery dead in a drawer. They kept saying keep it, 'just in case.' In sat in a drawer, unused, but being paid for, for over two years. Despite my periodic reminder that I never use it. They finally cancelled it around the 2.5 year mark. This was also during the time period where they said they couldn't find $400 in the budget to get me a standing desk ....
Budget is the point here.
The phone is a planned expenditure in the budget.
A standing desk???? Is that even something you can put into furniture or is it a machine??

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20891 on: September 13, 2018, 12:55:05 PM »
Quote
Budget is the point here.
The phone is a planned expenditure in the budget.
A standing desk???? Is that even something you can put into furniture or is it a machine??

And I'm sure along the line that was their excuse. If you budget burning $80 a month it doesn't matter, IT WAS IN THE BUDGET.

The standing desk thing is just a platform that sits on top of your existing desk and then has hydraulic lift up and down. It took me three years of asking and doing all the research on my own before they considered it.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20892 on: September 13, 2018, 01:32:19 PM »
Quote
Budget is the point here.
The phone is a planned expenditure in the budget.
A standing desk???? Is that even something you can put into furniture or is it a machine??

And I'm sure along the line that was their excuse. If you budget burning $80 a month it doesn't matter, IT WAS IN THE BUDGET.

The standing desk thing is just a platform that sits on top of your existing desk and then has hydraulic lift up and down. It took me three years of asking and doing all the research on my own before they considered it.
Ah, the classic "spend $1000 of company time to justify a $400 purchase" fun.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20893 on: September 13, 2018, 01:42:30 PM »
Quote
Budget is the point here.
The phone is a planned expenditure in the budget.
A standing desk???? Is that even something you can put into furniture or is it a machine??

And I'm sure along the line that was their excuse. If you budget burning $80 a month it doesn't matter, IT WAS IN THE BUDGET.

The standing desk thing is just a platform that sits on top of your existing desk and then has hydraulic lift up and down. It took me three years of asking and doing all the research on my own before they considered it.
Ah, the classic "spend $1000 of company time to justify a $400 purchase" fun.

Exactly exactly exactly this.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 04:51:34 PM by Dianalou »

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20894 on: September 13, 2018, 04:49:17 PM »
Lunch today:

Coworker #1: Yeah, I had a friend that sold their house and bought a more expensive one every three years.  Great move financially...now they live in a really expensive place!

Coworker #2: Wow, that's a great idea!  Plus, I should do that so I wouldn't have to accumulate so much stuff in the house!

Me: My wife and I accomplish that by just not buying things.

Coworker #2: (Laughing) Yeah, that doesn't seem to work for me:)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20895 on: September 14, 2018, 01:02:30 AM »
The previous discussion about budgets reminds me of a story that happened a few years ago.

One of my friends received a grant for a certain amount of money, but instead of just receiving a cheque, she needed to submit receipts of purchased items to receive reimbursement. The grant only specified that it had to be equipment related to the study that she was conducting. Following the completion of the study, she was allowed to keep all of the equipment. She was only able to spend about 50% of her grant, so she asked me to go shopping with her. We went to the local Best Buy and spent a good hour selecting a top of the line laptop, laptop case, external hard drive, USB keys, printer, and a shredder, as she was going to lose her funding (and qualify for less funding the next time around) if she did not use up all the money in the budget.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20896 on: September 14, 2018, 06:01:00 AM »
Quote
Budget is the point here.
The phone is a planned expenditure in the budget.
A standing desk???? Is that even something you can put into furniture or is it a machine??

And I'm sure along the line that was their excuse. If you budget burning $80 a month it doesn't matter, IT WAS IN THE BUDGET.

The standing desk thing is just a platform that sits on top of your existing desk and then has hydraulic lift up and down. It took me three years of asking and doing all the research on my own before they considered it.
Ah, the classic "spend $1000 of company time to justify a $400 purchase" fun.

In the old building, some people who were accepted to need it, got their normal desk rebuilt to make it a flexible sitting/standing desk. You had to be lucky and get a doctor's assignment. Now we are in a new building with new furniture and now we all have desks with flexible height. Hurray. I love to be able to left med desk up in the morning when I'm fresh and to lower it in the afternoon when I get saggy. And of course, stand, when I feel for it.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20897 on: September 14, 2018, 11:32:30 AM »
In the checkout line at Walmart:
I was in the line longer enough to learn this family's structure. Man is just dating the girl for her section 8 house. Girl has two kids from two different men. Kid one is a toddler, kid two is maybe 4-8 (I dont know what kids look like at what age)

Man to kid 2:
"If ya wanna be a balla, gotta spend them dollas"

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20898 on: September 14, 2018, 03:53:41 PM »
Over the radio at the gym I heard an advertisement:

Ad "it's Terrible to lose a job isn't it?"
My thought: "uh, not really. Probably sucked anyway"
Ad "especially when you know you have bills right around the corner-"
My thought: ".. isn't that what savings and unemployment is for?"
Ad: "now for just $10 a month, you can get the peace of mind you need."
Me: "what the hell? Couldn't they just save that money and more to cover themselves during a gap?"

It's like saving is so impossible that people need to spend money to have someone else save it for them...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20899 on: September 14, 2018, 04:56:34 PM »
Over the radio at the gym I heard an advertisement:

Ad "it's Terrible to lose a job isn't it?"
My thought: "uh, not really. Probably sucked anyway"
Ad "especially when you know you have bills right around the corner-"
My thought: ".. isn't that what savings and unemployment is for?"
Ad: "now for just $10 a month, you can get the peace of mind you need."
Me: "what the hell? Couldn't they just save that money and more to cover themselves during a gap?"

It's like saving is so impossible that people need to spend money to have someone else save it for them...

... but... they already have the unemployment program to do exactly that? We all pay in a small amount, and it's a safety net if we all need it? Why would you pay extra for another safety net (which I'm assuming doesn't cover all that much at 10$/month...?) The logic, I don't find it.