Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 6872920 times)

LeRainDrop

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16000 on: November 29, 2016, 11:48:48 AM »
Oh, no, I declined my firm's offer of the company credit card and always used my own card so that I could rack up the rewards.  I LOVED getting to charge business expenses to my card and then get reimbursed!  Our system was very streamlined through an online expense report, which my assistant prepared, and as long as it was submitted by Tuesday afternoon, then the reimbursement would get direct-deposited into my bank account by Friday morning.  I ALWAYS got reimbursement long before my credit card payment was due, so this was just an awesome system that worked to my advantage.

Chris22

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16001 on: November 29, 2016, 12:10:55 PM »
What loan? You don't have to pay your cc company for between 4-8 weeks depending on the timing of the purchase.  Why would it be unreasonable to have a policy to reimburse expenses on a regular schedule?  My company only does it on pay day which is fortnightly.  There will never be a situation where I haven't been reimbursed well before any cc purchase is required to be paid before it starts accruing interest.

It's either a loan or they're leveraging my credit to run the business.  Either way it isn't acceptable to me.  They need to use their own credit to run their business. 

On a more personal note, I only have one credit card with a relatively modest ($10k I think) credit limit, and on occasion I will use a fair chunk of that limit up in a given month (mostly on home renno stuff that gets paid off monthly).  So if I'm expected to suddenly book a trip for, say, $1500, and I've already used a big chunk of my credit limit (I paid $5500 one month for appliances, another I spent ~$6k on HVAC) what am I to do?  Why is that MY problem?
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Chris22

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16002 on: November 29, 2016, 12:16:08 PM »
Oh, no, I declined my firm's offer of the company credit card and always used my own card so that I could rack up the rewards.  I LOVED getting to charge business expenses to my card and then get reimbursed!  Our system was very streamlined through an online expense report, which my assistant prepared, and as long as it was submitted by Tuesday afternoon, then the reimbursement would get direct-deposited into my bank account by Friday morning.  I ALWAYS got reimbursement long before my credit card payment was due, so this was just an awesome system that worked to my advantage.

As a person who works closely with the corp. credit card provider at my current job on T&E, this is a missed opportunity in more than one way for your company.  For one, we get a rebate (think it's 2%) for all spend we put through our corporate AMEX collectively.  That's a HUGE dollar amount (total T&E budget company wide is almost $100M) that we miss out on if people use their own card.  Second, I've found a number of instances where people spend way way more to get themselves points/status/miles/whatever; we had one where someone with (say) United status booked a $5k ticket on United instead of the best option which was a $1500 ticket on (say) American for a flight.  That's the kind of behavior you "encourage" when you don't require use of a corporate card.  It's to the point now where we mandate and track compliance on using the company card and report the top 10-15-20 offenders (by dollar amount) to senior management.
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dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16003 on: November 29, 2016, 12:25:25 PM »
Oh, no, I declined my firm's offer of the company credit card and always used my own card so that I could rack up the rewards.  I LOVED getting to charge business expenses to my card and then get reimbursed!  Our system was very streamlined through an online expense report, which my assistant prepared, and as long as it was submitted by Tuesday afternoon, then the reimbursement would get direct-deposited into my bank account by Friday morning.  I ALWAYS got reimbursement long before my credit card payment was due, so this was just an awesome system that worked to my advantage.

As a person who works closely with the corp. credit card provider at my current job on T&E, this is a missed opportunity in more than one way for your company.  For one, we get a rebate (think it's 2%) for all spend we put through our corporate AMEX collectively.  That's a HUGE dollar amount (total T&E budget company wide is almost $100M) that we miss out on if people use their own card.  Second, I've found a number of instances where people spend way way more to get themselves points/status/miles/whatever; we had one where someone with (say) United status booked a $5k ticket on United instead of the best option which was a $1500 ticket on (say) American for a flight.  That's the kind of behavior you "encourage" when you don't require use of a corporate card.  It's to the point now where we mandate and track compliance on using the company card and report the top 10-15-20 offenders (by dollar amount) to senior management.

Haha I do the same thing as lerain... My first time I specifically asked if I had to use the firm card and they said no, do it whichever way I want.  So I usually used my airline credit card for the extra points.  I didn't purposely book more expensive flights, but often had to book non refundable flights because I'd have last minute meetings and would need to change the return flight depending on when the meetings finally ended.  I'm not sitting around he airport all day when I could be headed home.  So many miles!

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16004 on: November 29, 2016, 12:40:12 PM »
Oh, no, I declined my firm's offer of the company credit card and always used my own card so that I could rack up the rewards.  I LOVED getting to charge business expenses to my card and then get reimbursed!  Our system was very streamlined through an online expense report, which my assistant prepared, and as long as it was submitted by Tuesday afternoon, then the reimbursement would get direct-deposited into my bank account by Friday morning.  I ALWAYS got reimbursement long before my credit card payment was due, so this was just an awesome system that worked to my advantage.

As a person who works closely with the corp. credit card provider at my current job on T&E, this is a missed opportunity in more than one way for your company.  For one, we get a rebate (think it's 2%) for all spend we put through our corporate AMEX collectively.  That's a HUGE dollar amount (total T&E budget company wide is almost $100M) that we miss out on if people use their own card.  Second, I've found a number of instances where people spend way way more to get themselves points/status/miles/whatever; we had one where someone with (say) United status booked a $5k ticket on United instead of the best option which was a $1500 ticket on (say) American for a flight.  That's the kind of behavior you "encourage" when you don't require use of a corporate card.  It's to the point now where we mandate and track compliance on using the company card and report the top 10-15-20 offenders (by dollar amount) to senior management.

Haha I do the same thing as lerain... My first time I specifically asked if I had to use the firm card and they said no, do it whichever way I want.  So I usually used my airline credit card for the extra points.  I didn't purposely book more expensive flights, but often had to book non refundable flights because I'd have last minute meetings and would need to change the return flight depending on when the meetings finally ended.  I'm not sitting around he airport all day when I could be headed home.  So many miles!

I agree with this. The advantage of using your own card is that like you said, you get the rewards. The downside is that you may have to wait to get reimbursed by your company. I think if the option is given, most employees would probably prefer to take the rewards, especially if they are on the road fairly frequently.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16005 on: November 29, 2016, 12:47:03 PM »
Oh, no, I declined my firm's offer of the company credit card and always used my own card so that I could rack up the rewards.  I LOVED getting to charge business expenses to my card and then get reimbursed!  Our system was very streamlined through an online expense report, which my assistant prepared, and as long as it was submitted by Tuesday afternoon, then the reimbursement would get direct-deposited into my bank account by Friday morning.  I ALWAYS got reimbursement long before my credit card payment was due, so this was just an awesome system that worked to my advantage.

As a person who works closely with the corp. credit card provider at my current job on T&E, this is a missed opportunity in more than one way for your company.  For one, we get a rebate (think it's 2%) for all spend we put through our corporate AMEX collectively.  That's a HUGE dollar amount (total T&E budget company wide is almost $100M) that we miss out on if people use their own card.  Second, I've found a number of instances where people spend way way more to get themselves points/status/miles/whatever; we had one where someone with (say) United status booked a $5k ticket on United instead of the best option which was a $1500 ticket on (say) American for a flight.  That's the kind of behavior you "encourage" when you don't require use of a corporate card.  It's to the point now where we mandate and track compliance on using the company card and report the top 10-15-20 offenders (by dollar amount) to senior management.

Haha I do the same thing as lerain... My first time I specifically asked if I had to use the firm card and they said no, do it whichever way I want.  So I usually used my airline credit card for the extra points.  I didn't purposely book more expensive flights, but often had to book non refundable flights because I'd have last minute meetings and would need to change the return flight depending on when the meetings finally ended.  I'm not sitting around he airport all day when I could be headed home.  So many miles!

I agree with this. The advantage of using your own card is that like you said, you get the rewards. The downside is that you may have to wait to get reimbursed by your company. I think if the option is given, most employees would probably prefer to take the rewards, especially if they are on the road fairly frequently.

Like lerain, I also got reimbursed before my payment was due so it was just a double win for me

Only thing I used the company card was for rental cars because I guess they had some liability insurance thing on it and I didn't want to play with rental damage

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16006 on: November 29, 2016, 12:58:14 PM »
Oh, no, I declined my firm's offer of the company credit card and always used my own card so that I could rack up the rewards.  I LOVED getting to charge business expenses to my card and then get reimbursed!  Our system was very streamlined through an online expense report, which my assistant prepared, and as long as it was submitted by Tuesday afternoon, then the reimbursement would get direct-deposited into my bank account by Friday morning.  I ALWAYS got reimbursement long before my credit card payment was due, so this was just an awesome system that worked to my advantage.

As a person who works closely with the corp. credit card provider at my current job on T&E, this is a missed opportunity in more than one way for your company.  For one, we get a rebate (think it's 2%) for all spend we put through our corporate AMEX collectively.  That's a HUGE dollar amount (total T&E budget company wide is almost $100M) that we miss out on if people use their own card.  Second, I've found a number of instances where people spend way way more to get themselves points/status/miles/whatever; we had one where someone with (say) United status booked a $5k ticket on United instead of the best option which was a $1500 ticket on (say) American for a flight.  That's the kind of behavior you "encourage" when you don't require use of a corporate card.  It's to the point now where we mandate and track compliance on using the company card and report the top 10-15-20 offenders (by dollar amount) to senior management.

Haha I do the same thing as lerain... My first time I specifically asked if I had to use the firm card and they said no, do it whichever way I want.  So I usually used my airline credit card for the extra points.  I didn't purposely book more expensive flights, but often had to book non refundable flights because I'd have last minute meetings and would need to change the return flight depending on when the meetings finally ended.  I'm not sitting around he airport all day when I could be headed home.  So many miles!

I agree with this. The advantage of using your own card is that like you said, you get the rewards. The downside is that you may have to wait to get reimbursed by your company. I think if the option is given, most employees would probably prefer to take the rewards, especially if they are on the road fairly frequently.

Like lerain, I also got reimbursed before my payment was due so it was just a double win for me

Only thing I used the company card was for rental cars because I guess they had some liability insurance thing on it and I didn't want to play with rental damage

Yeah I hear you. I don't have an Amex for personal use, so if I'm ever renting a car I use my company's Amex (if personal use I'll reimburse) as Amex includes insurance on car rentals.

ringer707

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16007 on: November 29, 2016, 02:00:27 PM »
My husband works in the private sector and has a company credit card for all expenses, but is allowed to use his own rewards (Delta, Hertz, etc.) and therefore accrues points allowing us to use those on vacation. Even when he worked for federal government contractors, that was how it worked. I guess it's not that way for everyone? I've never been in a position involving travel so I have no experience with it other than that.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16008 on: November 29, 2016, 02:59:21 PM »
I have never had a company credit card of my own.  When I was in public accounting I would pay for all hotels and meals and then submit my expenses to be reimbursed.  If travel called for a flight then our company would book it for us. 

Now working in industry I hate having to review our company credit card.  No problems with the vendor cards but the individuals who have their own card are terrible at submitting the receipts so AP knows how to code the expense. 

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16009 on: November 29, 2016, 03:27:03 PM »
My husband works in the private sector and has a company credit card for all expenses, but is allowed to use his own rewards (Delta, Hertz, etc.) and therefore accrues points allowing us to use those on vacation. Even when he worked for federal government contractors, that was how it worked. I guess it's not that way for everyone? I've never been in a position involving travel so I have no experience with it other than that.

It's not up to the company on whose behalf the travel is being done. Car, plane, and hotel companies tie their rewards to the individual, because then they don't lose megabucks when corporations collect from hundreds of travelers and use it to treat executives or VIPs, or as some kind of bribe or business incentive that's hard to track because money isn't involved. An individual person who travels once in a blue moon might have points expire before being collected; airlines and similar companies rely on that.
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frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16010 on: November 29, 2016, 03:40:49 PM »
What loan? You don't have to pay your cc company for between 4-8 weeks depending on the timing of the purchase.  Why would it be unreasonable to have a policy to reimburse expenses on a regular schedule?  My company only does it on pay day which is fortnightly.  There will never be a situation where I haven't been reimbursed well before any cc purchase is required to be paid before it starts accruing interest.

It's either a loan or they're leveraging my credit to run the business.  Either way it isn't acceptable to me.  They need to use their own credit to run their business. 

On a more personal note, I only have one credit card with a relatively modest ($10k I think) credit limit, and on occasion I will use a fair chunk of that limit up in a given month (mostly on home renno stuff that gets paid off monthly).  So if I'm expected to suddenly book a trip for, say, $1500, and I've already used a big chunk of my credit limit (I paid $5500 one month for appliances, another I spent ~$6k on HVAC) what am I to do?  Why is that MY problem?

rewards man.   You can rack up the rewards making reimbursable purchases for the company.   You could probably qualify for more credit too.  I have over $100k limit on credit cards.  My wife has $40k and doesn't even have a job.

steviesterno

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16011 on: November 30, 2016, 08:09:14 AM »
My co-worker, who I know makes less than me was talking to me about buying an $8000 watch this week, after showing off a $1700 (On sale!) purse. My $60 military backpack has been through worse and for years, so I can't fathom this one.

But when she said she was finally rewarding herself with this watch. I congratulated her on having her 403 maxed for the year, Roth totally funded, and a down payment on a house all saved up...She's like oh yeah, I totally need to sign up for our 403 (which is 6% raise deposited instantly when we start it, she's here 2 years).

Also not sure why someone who is chronically an hour late needs a fancy watch. Probably won't make it through next round of contracts, either...

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16012 on: November 30, 2016, 08:14:23 AM »
But when she said she was finally rewarding herself with this watch. I congratulated her on having her 403 maxed for the year, Roth totally funded, and a down payment on a house all saved up...

Hahaha.  What a dick move.  I love it.
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Half-Borg

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16013 on: November 30, 2016, 08:30:51 AM »
Also not sure why someone who is chronically an hour late needs a fancy watch.
Obviously she does need a watch.

Stash Engineer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16014 on: November 30, 2016, 08:42:00 AM »
My co-worker, who I know makes less than me was talking to me about buying an $8000 watch this week, after showing off a $1700 (On sale!) purse. My $60 military backpack has been through worse and for years, so I can't fathom this one.

But when she said she was finally rewarding herself with this watch. I congratulated her on having her 403 maxed for the year, Roth totally funded, and a down payment on a house all saved up...She's like oh yeah, I totally need to sign up for our 403 (which is 6% raise deposited instantly when we start it, she's here 2 years).

Also not sure why someone who is chronically an hour late needs a fancy watch. Probably won't make it through next round of contracts, either...

Well played!
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MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16015 on: November 30, 2016, 09:05:54 AM »
My husband works in the private sector and has a company credit card for all expenses, but is allowed to use his own rewards (Delta, Hertz, etc.) and therefore accrues points allowing us to use those on vacation. Even when he worked for federal government contractors, that was how it worked. I guess it's not that way for everyone? I've never been in a position involving travel so I have no experience with it other than that.

It's not up to the company on whose behalf the travel is being done. Car, plane, and hotel companies tie their rewards to the individual, because then they don't lose megabucks when corporations collect from hundreds of travelers and use it to treat executives or VIPs, or as some kind of bribe or business incentive that's hard to track because money isn't involved. An individual person who travels once in a blue moon might have points expire before being collected; airlines and similar companies rely on that.

There's this, plus I also feel like it's in the car/plane/hotel companies best interest to directly reward individuals because they are generally the ones that book the car/plane/hotel and so are more likely to insist on staying at the Marriot instead of the Hilton. I don't know how it works for all business travelers but for my brother he was generally given a list of "approved" hotels or the amount he would expense for lodgings and would generally stay at the same hotel chain.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16016 on: November 30, 2016, 09:57:46 AM »
I held back and didn't facepunch the guy but just walked away shaking my head.

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Taran Wanderer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16017 on: November 30, 2016, 10:54:37 PM »
Oh, no, I declined my firm's offer of the company credit card and always used my own card so that I could rack up the rewards.  I LOVED getting to charge business expenses to my card and then get reimbursed!  Our system was very streamlined through an online expense report, which my assistant prepared, and as long as it was submitted by Tuesday afternoon, then the reimbursement would get direct-deposited into my bank account by Friday morning.  I ALWAYS got reimbursement long before my credit card payment was due, so this was just an awesome system that worked to my advantage.

This right here.  Charge $1,000 per month to my personal credit card for company-reimbursed expenses, and the miles or cash back at the end of the year.  The company pays fast, I pay in full each month, and I pocket the benefits at the end of the year.  All that goes away if I were to use the company card.  Why give the benefits to the company?
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16018 on: December 01, 2016, 11:03:01 AM »
I keep thinking I'm gonna post this and maybe I have, but I have to be sure.

CW: Thanks for all being here to wish me well as I retire for the second time. As you all know, I had to go back into fed service for 2 years because we decided to buy a second ~$400K house without selling the first one, mere months after moving in and deciding we didn't like it, and got stuck with two mortgages for over a year before selling at a huge loss.*

Boss: Have fun in retirement. I wish I could retire but I screwed myself by procreating 16 years ago.

Boss: I just traded my 2-month-old Tahoe for a Land Rover because it was too big.

Boss: I've discovered if you trade often enough, you never have to make payments. Just keep rolling that negative equity!

*I've heard this story before and shuddered, but I had no idea it was the only reason he was working here... house #1 just sold a few months ago.
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onlykelsey

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16019 on: December 01, 2016, 11:06:49 AM »
I keep thinking I'm gonna post this and maybe I have, but I have to be sure.

CW: Thanks for all being here to wish me well as I retire for the second time. As you all know, I had to go back into fed service for 2 years because we decided to buy a second ~$400K house without selling the first one, mere months after moving in and deciding we didn't like it, and got stuck with two mortgages for over a year before selling at a huge loss.*

Boss: Have fun in retirement. I wish I could retire but I screwed myself by procreating 16 years ago.

Boss: I just traded my 2-month-old Tahoe for a Land Rover because it was too big.

Boss: I've discovered if you trade often enough, you never have to make payments. Just keep rolling that negative equity!

*I've heard this story before and shuddered, but I had no idea it was the only reason he was working here... house #1 just sold a few months ago.

Wow.  Whenever I'm ashamed of how low my savings rate is, this thread always makes me feel better about myself.

nanu

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16020 on: December 01, 2016, 12:14:06 PM »
I keep thinking I'm gonna post this and maybe I have, but I have to be sure.

CW: Thanks for all being here to wish me well as I retire for the second time. As you all know, I had to go back into fed service for 2 years because we decided to buy a second ~$400K house without selling the first one, mere months after moving in and deciding we didn't like it, and got stuck with two mortgages for over a year before selling at a huge loss.*

Boss: Have fun in retirement. I wish I could retire but I screwed myself by procreating 16 years ago.

Boss: I just traded my 2-month-old Tahoe for a Land Rover because it was too big.

Boss: I've discovered if you trade often enough, you never have to make payments. Just keep rolling that negative equity!

*I've heard this story before and shuddered, but I had no idea it was the only reason he was working here... house #1 just sold a few months ago.

Wow.  Whenever I'm ashamed of how low my savings rate is, this thread always makes me feel better about myself.
Having a non-negative savings rate is already better than a lot of people. And the average (US) savings rate is 10%, but I doubt the median is close to that.

Edit:
Scratch that. It's only around 5.7% now (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/personal-savings)
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16021 on: December 01, 2016, 01:54:58 PM »
FTR, my boss isn't an idiot and the last line was pretty tongue-in-cheek, but between O-6 retirement and GS-14 pay he's gotta be near $200K/yr... in a LCOL town. But he can't say no to the wife and 3 daughters, or at least that's how he makes it sound. He does have a history of successful investments and I wouldn't be surprised if he's worth $1M or more. If he really wanted to retire, he could get there pretty fast... I think he's planning on a few more years of work and full retirement in a pricey beach community near age 60.
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onlykelsey

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16022 on: December 01, 2016, 02:00:51 PM »
I keep thinking I'm gonna post this and maybe I have, but I have to be sure.

CW: Thanks for all being here to wish me well as I retire for the second time. As you all know, I had to go back into fed service for 2 years because we decided to buy a second ~$400K house without selling the first one, mere months after moving in and deciding we didn't like it, and got stuck with two mortgages for over a year before selling at a huge loss.*

Boss: Have fun in retirement. I wish I could retire but I screwed myself by procreating 16 years ago.

Boss: I just traded my 2-month-old Tahoe for a Land Rover because it was too big.

Boss: I've discovered if you trade often enough, you never have to make payments. Just keep rolling that negative equity!

*I've heard this story before and shuddered, but I had no idea it was the only reason he was working here... house #1 just sold a few months ago.

Wow.  Whenever I'm ashamed of how low my savings rate is, this thread always makes me feel better about myself.
Having a non-negative savings rate is already better than a lot of people. And the average (US) savings rate is 10%, but I doubt the median is close to that.

Edit:
Scratch that. It's only around 5.7% now (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/personal-savings)

That is pretty scary.  I get that lots of people genuinely can't get ahead, but there are SO MANY OF US who can.  I'll have to calculate mine for 2016 in a month...  I've never done it.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16023 on: December 01, 2016, 02:11:33 PM »
I keep thinking I'm gonna post this and maybe I have, but I have to be sure.

CW: Thanks for all being here to wish me well as I retire for the second time. As you all know, I had to go back into fed service for 2 years because we decided to buy a second ~$400K house without selling the first one, mere months after moving in and deciding we didn't like it, and got stuck with two mortgages for over a year before selling at a huge loss.*

Boss: Have fun in retirement. I wish I could retire but I screwed myself by procreating 16 years ago.

Boss: I just traded my 2-month-old Tahoe for a Land Rover because it was too big.

Boss: I've discovered if you trade often enough, you never have to make payments. Just keep rolling that negative equity!

*I've heard this story before and shuddered, but I had no idea it was the only reason he was working here... house #1 just sold a few months ago.

Wow.  Whenever I'm ashamed of how low my savings rate is, this thread always makes me feel better about myself.
Having a non-negative savings rate is already better than a lot of people. And the average (US) savings rate is 10%, but I doubt the median is close to that.

Edit:
Scratch that. It's only around 5.7% now (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/personal-savings)

I'd be interested in how they track that.  My own personal savings rate is hard to calculate and depends a lot on judgement (i.e., does my savings account which doubles as an emergency fund and a capital purchases slush fund count as savings?  Does my daughter's 529?  How about my Dependent Care account?  Employee Stock Purchase Plan?)  I don't see how you'd do it on the whole for the general population. 
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

MichaelB

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16024 on: December 01, 2016, 02:22:45 PM »
I keep thinking I'm gonna post this and maybe I have, but I have to be sure.

CW: Thanks for all being here to wish me well as I retire for the second time. As you all know, I had to go back into fed service for 2 years because we decided to buy a second ~$400K house without selling the first one, mere months after moving in and deciding we didn't like it, and got stuck with two mortgages for over a year before selling at a huge loss.*

Boss: Have fun in retirement. I wish I could retire but I screwed myself by procreating 16 years ago.

Boss: I just traded my 2-month-old Tahoe for a Land Rover because it was too big.

Boss: I've discovered if you trade often enough, you never have to make payments. Just keep rolling that negative equity!

*I've heard this story before and shuddered, but I had no idea it was the only reason he was working here... house #1 just sold a few months ago.

Wow.  Whenever I'm ashamed of how low my savings rate is, this thread always makes me feel better about myself.
Having a non-negative savings rate is already better than a lot of people. And the average (US) savings rate is 10%, but I doubt the median is close to that.

Edit:
Scratch that. It's only around 5.7% now (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/personal-savings)

I'm actually somewhat pleased it's that much. I feel like I've heard that there have been points where the savings rate was negative?

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16025 on: December 01, 2016, 02:51:27 PM »
I'm actually somewhat pleased it's that much. I feel like I've heard that there have been points where the savings rate was negative?

I've read that it is still negative for certain age groups and areas.

onlykelsey

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16026 on: December 01, 2016, 03:13:42 PM »
I keep thinking I'm gonna post this and maybe I have, but I have to be sure.

CW: Thanks for all being here to wish me well as I retire for the second time. As you all know, I had to go back into fed service for 2 years because we decided to buy a second ~$400K house without selling the first one, mere months after moving in and deciding we didn't like it, and got stuck with two mortgages for over a year before selling at a huge loss.*

Boss: Have fun in retirement. I wish I could retire but I screwed myself by procreating 16 years ago.

Boss: I just traded my 2-month-old Tahoe for a Land Rover because it was too big.

Boss: I've discovered if you trade often enough, you never have to make payments. Just keep rolling that negative equity!

*I've heard this story before and shuddered, but I had no idea it was the only reason he was working here... house #1 just sold a few months ago.

Wow.  Whenever I'm ashamed of how low my savings rate is, this thread always makes me feel better about myself.
Having a non-negative savings rate is already better than a lot of people. And the average (US) savings rate is 10%, but I doubt the median is close to that.

Edit:
Scratch that. It's only around 5.7% now (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/personal-savings)

I'd be interested in how they track that.  My own personal savings rate is hard to calculate and depends a lot on judgement (i.e., does my savings account which doubles as an emergency fund and a capital purchases slush fund count as savings?  Does my daughter's 529?  How about my Dependent Care account?  Employee Stock Purchase Plan?)  I don't see how you'd do it on the whole for the general population.

It looks like that page keys to the bureau of economic analysis: http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/pi/pinewsrelease.htm  So their definition is income minus (value of the goods and services purchased by, or on the behalf of, “persons” who reside in the United States) minus (personal interest payment) minus (personal current transfer payments) minus (personal taxes).

All of them are defined terms you can see in that link, but it looks like anything you're not spending on goods or services or taxes is savings.  So it seems pretty generous.

Uturn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16027 on: December 01, 2016, 06:45:54 PM »
One of my clients today: We are looking for a new house because ours is 7 years old and things are going to start breaking. 
It's not about money, it's about mindset

Miss Piggy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16028 on: December 01, 2016, 06:59:42 PM »
One of my clients today: We are looking for a new house because ours is 7 years old and things are going to start breaking.

Part of me says "Oh my..."

The other part of me says "Well, the way they're building houses so cheaply today, your clients are probably right..."

Ralph2

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16029 on: December 01, 2016, 07:47:48 PM »

Ha yes, I second this. Obviously with exceptions - I mean, people need to be treated fairly in the workplace-  but yeah. I have seen the situation many times where bosses have asked staff to do stuff and staff have decided that means the beginning of a 6-month debate about whether or not they 'agree' to do it. Just FFFFing do it. It's your job!! If you're not being told to work longer hours for the same pay, or do something outside your payscale, then just DO IT *in the style of Shia Labeouf*

We have recently had our job descriptions changed to a menial under direct supervision duties one without consultation or our knowledge which is against our employment agreement.
The work we actually do is now rated as 2 or 3 pay grades above what we are being paid.
Regrade without competition (backdated)is being asked for, otherwise legal action will be taken.

gimp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16030 on: December 01, 2016, 08:33:22 PM »
One of my clients today: We are looking for a new house because ours is 7 years old and things are going to start breaking.

Holy shit. Wow. They treat houses 3x more disposable than I treat cars. (If not worse.)

I assume they're not living in a slapped together prefab, right?

Miss Piggy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16031 on: December 01, 2016, 09:00:02 PM »
One of my clients today: We are looking for a new house because ours is 7 years old and things are going to start breaking.

Holy shit. Wow. They treat houses 3x more disposable than I treat cars. (If not worse.)

I assume they're not living in a slapped together prefab, right?

Seems like that's all they're building anymore in my area, even at $500,000 and up. Just for kicks, some friends and I toured a $600,000 brand new home recently. I was shocked at the shitty quality and builder-grade "amenities" (which will be replaced within the first year because they're cheap crap). Makes me all that much happier to live in my paid-for 1960s home.

Ramblin' Ma'am

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16032 on: December 02, 2016, 07:08:01 AM »
Overheard in my office building's elevator last night.

Woman: *sigh* I can't wait to retire. Well, I'm 40, so...only 27 more years, I guess.

I wanted to turn around and say, "You know that YOU decide your retirement age, right?"

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16033 on: December 02, 2016, 07:45:50 AM »
Overheard in my office building's elevator last night.

Woman: *sigh* I can't wait to retire. Well, I'm 40, so...only 27 more years, I guess.

I wanted to turn around and say, "You know that YOU decide your retirement age, right?"
I hate that mentality that your future is being determined by others.

Debts_of_Despair

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16034 on: December 02, 2016, 07:53:45 AM »
Overheard in my office building's elevator last night.

Woman: *sigh* I can't wait to retire. Well, I'm 40, so...only 27 more years, I guess.

I wanted to turn around and say, "You know that YOU decide your retirement age, right?"

My employer has a defined benefit pension plan.  Most people can tell you "how much time they have left" down to the day before they reach their full benefit.  They don't understand that there are other ways to retire sooner.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16035 on: December 02, 2016, 08:02:33 AM »
One of my clients today: We are looking for a new house because ours is 7 years old and things are going to start breaking.

Part of me says "Oh my..."

The other part of me says "Well, the way they're building houses so cheaply today, your clients are probably right..."
LOL
Maybe they mean the colors are getting murky?
Tell them to get a passive house build.
Maybe hard to get one in the US though. WP says you have only 13 over there. Even in those expensive area where the extra costs would be single % - not to mention the savings in energy costs.

ducky19

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16036 on: December 02, 2016, 09:50:44 AM »
Overheard in my office building's elevator last night.

Woman: *sigh* I can't wait to retire. Well, I'm 40, so...only 27 more years, I guess.

I wanted to turn around and say, "You know that YOU decide your retirement age, right?"

Had a peer of mine who is five years my junior (I'm 42) state that she's got another 27 years until she retires. All I could think was "wtf???" as she makes low six figures in a LCOL area. I'm shooting for 10-15 (depending more on whether I'm enjoying work or not at that point). I can't imagine being here for 27 more years!

BFGirl

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16037 on: December 02, 2016, 10:23:49 AM »
Overheard in my office building's elevator last night.

Woman: *sigh* I can't wait to retire. Well, I'm 40, so...only 27 more years, I guess.

I wanted to turn around and say, "You know that YOU decide your retirement age, right?"

My employer has a defined benefit pension plan.  Most people can tell you "how much time they have left" down to the day before they reach their full benefit.  They don't understand that there are other ways to retire sooner.

I can tell you down to the day.  Four years and 29 days.  But I'll get a payment for life and healthcare and I'll only be 53.  Rest of my needs will be met by savings and doing work I want to do.

Chris22

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16038 on: December 02, 2016, 10:29:33 AM »
Yeah, a defined benefit pension and healthcare really puts a different spin on the whole FI/RE thing.  That's why people in the military usually either walk away after the first tour or so, or try to stick it out to 20; if you get 10 years in, it's hard to not think "halfway to never worrying about medical and getting a decent check just for waking up every day for the rest of my life." 

Corporate plans are not quite as dependable necessarily, but still.
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

Ramblin' Ma'am

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16039 on: December 02, 2016, 10:35:52 AM »
Overheard in my office building's elevator last night.

Woman: *sigh* I can't wait to retire. Well, I'm 40, so...only 27 more years, I guess.

I wanted to turn around and say, "You know that YOU decide your retirement age, right?"
I hate that mentality that your future is being determined by others.

It almost seems like people think you're not "allowed" to retire before Social Security age...even aside from the question of whether you can afford it. I mean, even if she waited until 59 and then accessed her 401(k) without any tax hassles, that would still be eight years earlier than the official age.

I know I'm not going to retire as early as many on this site, but it certainly won't be at 67!

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16040 on: December 02, 2016, 10:58:08 AM »
Overheard in my office building's elevator last night.

Woman: *sigh* I can't wait to retire. Well, I'm 40, so...only 27 more years, I guess.

I wanted to turn around and say, "You know that YOU decide your retirement age, right?"
I hate that mentality that your future is being determined by others.

It almost seems like people think you're not "allowed" to retire before Social Security age...even aside from the question of whether you can afford it. I mean, even if she waited until 59 and then accessed her 401(k) without any tax hassles, that would still be eight years earlier than the official age.

I know I'm not going to retire as early as many on this site, but it certainly won't be at 67!

Reminds me of a conversation my dad was having with some friends of his... "mtndad, what is your Retirement Age" (meaning Social Security) "I'm not sure--it should be 66 for all of us, right? But I'm not taking it until they force me, so I really have no clue"

It was met with a lot of... not quite shock, but maybe mild surprise. He is probably retiring in about a year or less, as soon as his company offers him a package which he thinks is coming. I think he could have retired long ago, but he is too conservative for that.

Frugal_is_Fab

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16041 on: December 02, 2016, 07:21:31 PM »
People will "stick" with the company or government set "retirement" and the calculators reinforce that.   I recently did a financial plan for my husband's and my retirement and I had a hell of a time getting the Social Security website to give me my estimated benefit at age 62 if I quit this year (I'm 56).  The assumption is work every year up to 62 with ever increasing pay.   Finally I had to calculate it out with my whole work record and assuming 0 pay for the next six years.   Turns out I'm giving up a whopping $100 per month with this plan vs working to 62.   Would have paid the government about another 100000 in FICA tax to gain $1200 per year.   I have to live about 80 more years to make that math work.  No wonder they want you to keep slaving away.

My husband retired last month at 60.  He has a pension and his coworkers were stunned he would leave because staying 5 more years would have gotten him another $500 per month.   Granted staying 5 more years at work isn't going to get him any more life?  Do they ever think of that?

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16042 on: December 02, 2016, 08:41:23 PM »
The other day at work:

I: "You have a slow cooker, food processor, and blender, right?"



I have all of these, AND an instant pot (though I'm considering ditching my slow cooker).

I bought them all and use them all.

I love my appliances, what can I say. I also have a mixer and an immersion blender and a rice cooker and.... more things. LOL. But I love them and use them all.
OMG.  It just dawned on me that I had NONE of these things (except a blender) before I started reading MMM.  These forums are getting me to spend money on kitchen appliances.  I do like the rice from rice cooker.  And I do use my slow cooker at least 2x per month (making big giant batches), which I then freeze in mason jars (which I also bought based on advice from this forum).  Now I have an instant pot on order because....the forum says it's great.   wow.  I thought you guys were helping me! 
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16043 on: December 02, 2016, 09:03:31 PM »
The other day at work:

I: "You have a slow cooker, food processor, and blender, right?"



I have all of these, AND an instant pot (though I'm considering ditching my slow cooker).

I bought them all and use them all.

I love my appliances, what can I say. I also have a mixer and an immersion blender and a rice cooker and.... more things. LOL. But I love them and use them all.
OMG.  It just dawned on me that I had NONE of these things (except a blender) before I started reading MMM.  These forums are getting me to spend money on kitchen appliances.  I do like the rice from rice cooker.  And I do use my slow cooker at least 2x per month (making big giant batches), which I then freeze in mason jars (which I also bought based on advice from this forum).  Now I have an instant pot on order because....the forum says it's great.   wow.  I thought you guys were helping me!

LOL. Well, the posters here only post information, what people do with it is up to them.

I don't know how you were in your pre-MMM days, but personally I have drastically cut down on eating out which is a positive change for both monetary and health reasons.

horsepoor

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16044 on: December 02, 2016, 10:44:50 PM »
The other day at work:

I: "You have a slow cooker, food processor, and blender, right?"



I have all of these, AND an instant pot (though I'm considering ditching my slow cooker).

I bought them all and use them all.

I love my appliances, what can I say. I also have a mixer and an immersion blender and a rice cooker and.... more things. LOL. But I love them and use them all.
OMG.  It just dawned on me that I had NONE of these things (except a blender) before I started reading MMM.  These forums are getting me to spend money on kitchen appliances.  I do like the rice from rice cooker.  And I do use my slow cooker at least 2x per month (making big giant batches), which I then freeze in mason jars (which I also bought based on advice from this forum).  Now I have an instant pot on order because....the forum says it's great.   wow.  I thought you guys were helping me!

Sort of a double-edged sword:  if I was FIREd, I wouldn't need this Instant Pot.  But yeah, if it keeps us away from restaurants, it pays for itself pretty quickly.  Just made an Indian curry in mine tonight.  Yum.

Freedom Invested

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16045 on: December 03, 2016, 02:03:22 AM »
Reminds me of a conversation my dad was having with some friends of his... "mtndad, what is your Retirement Age" (meaning Social Security) "I'm not sure--it should be 66 for all of us, right? But I'm not taking it until they force me, so I really have no clue"

It was met with a lot of... not quite shock, but maybe mild surprise. He is probably retiring in about a year or less, as soon as his company offers him a package which he thinks is coming. I think he could have retired long ago, but he is too conservative for that.

This story makes me sad. My dad has been making 1/4 million+/yr for at least a decade (now 63yrs old). He has been saying for awhile that he wants to retire yet has no hobbies outside of work.

This should be a cautionary tale to us all to invest and to know how to do things other than work one job.
Compound interest, if understood and compounded with a quality education, would set us all free from debt and jobs we would rather quit.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16046 on: December 03, 2016, 06:50:24 AM »
This story makes me sad. My dad has been making 1/4 million+/yr for at least a decade (now 63yrs old). He has been saying for awhile that he wants to retire yet has no hobbies outside of work.

This should be a cautionary tale to us all to invest and to know how to do things other than work one job.
I have enough hobbies and interests that I could easily be occupied more than full time without a day job.  And I enjoy my job, too!

EfficiencyNerd

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16047 on: December 05, 2016, 02:52:40 PM »
Not really an overheard at work story, but I was recently looking into getting a new TV during the sales around Black Friday. I was looking into getting a super-duper huge-ass 48 inch TV. Don't care if it's smart, don't care if it's 4k because I won't sit 3 feet from it, and definitely don't want 3D. The absolute most I was going to pay was $300. I happened to be talking to my boss about it at work and he's like, "why don't you just go all-out and get a 65 inch one?"

I just kind of gawked at him for a minute before I realized my mouth was hanging open. I didn't say it, but my thought was, 48 inches is already insanely huge. The man who dies with the biggest and best toys... still dies. I'd rather enjoy life while I have it.

I know it's terribly anti-mustachian of me to be buying a brand-spanking-new TV, but this will probably be our family TV for at least a decade. It's replacing an old TV that I've replaced several parts inside already, which will move to our bedroom until it finally dies again. I would have bought a used one, but interestingly I found that most ads on Craigslist were asking more than retail. Interesting phenomenon with TV prices always dropping so rapidly....

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16048 on: December 05, 2016, 02:59:04 PM »
I didn't say it, but my thought was, 48 inches is already insanely huge.

Yea TV sizes have gotten ridiculous.  I have a 37" and it's plenty big but people keep telling me I should go bigger.  It's almost easier to just not have a tv at all than hear about how you should get a 'better' one.

I would have bought a used one, but interestingly I found that most ads on Craigslist were asking more than retail. Interesting phenomenon with TV prices always dropping so rapidly....

I've noticed that before too.  I think it's people not wanting to admit to themselves how fast prices have dropped since they bought it and how much money they're now out.

Travis

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16049 on: December 05, 2016, 03:26:51 PM »
I didn't say it, but my thought was, 48 inches is already insanely huge.

Yea TV sizes have gotten ridiculous.  I have a 37" and it's plenty big but people keep telling me I should go bigger.  It's almost easier to just not have a tv at all than hear about how you should get a 'better' one.

I would have bought a used one, but interestingly I found that most ads on Craigslist were asking more than retail. Interesting phenomenon with TV prices always dropping so rapidly....

I've noticed that before too.  I think it's people not wanting to admit to themselves how fast prices have dropped since they bought it and how much money they're now out.

Last year I received a 19 inch flat screen TV in a gift exchange (the kind where you're constantly trading until you get stuck).  I had no need for a second TV and right after Christmas looked to sell it on Craigslist.  The New Years Day sales undercut the price it was bought for before Christmas and the retail price for that model dropped almost 30% by the time I was able to sell it four months later.
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