Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 9127586 times)

viper155

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2700 on: May 27, 2014, 12:59:51 PM »
All of these examples show a real lack of effort on the part of the US gvt to educate its citizens about simple financial matters.

It is not the US govts job to "educate" its citizenry.

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2701 on: May 27, 2014, 01:07:51 PM »
I disagree.

blackomen

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2702 on: May 27, 2014, 01:23:20 PM »
Boss plans to upgrade his 2010 BMW to a Tesla while I'm still driving my 15 year old Honda Civic

warfreak2

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2703 on: May 27, 2014, 01:27:24 PM »
It is not the US govts job to "educate" its citizenry.
That is why the government doesn't fund schools.

You know, you pretty much already lost this debate a century ago.

Le0

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2704 on: May 27, 2014, 01:59:10 PM »
Boss plans to upgrade his 2010 BMW to a Tesla while I'm still driving my 15 year old Honda Civic

If I made more money, this would be incredibly tempting. However I also have a very frugal wife to give me a slap if I ever get there.

Zamboni

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2705 on: May 27, 2014, 04:24:30 PM »
Quote
17 residential properties and they are all in foreclosure.  Client told me that she wants me to help save ALL of them via a modification.

That's pretty impressive housing accumulation.  How on earth did someone like this secure 17 loans?

lithy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2706 on: May 27, 2014, 05:01:17 PM »
It is not the US govts job to "educate" its citizenry.
That is why the government doesn't fund schools.

You know, you pretty much already lost this debate a century ago.

You might be surprised that some people believe what the government does and what it should do are not always the same.  100 years of doing it or not does not necessarily make it right.

Eric

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2707 on: May 27, 2014, 05:18:33 PM »
It is not the US govts job to "educate" its citizenry.
That is why the government doesn't fund schools.

You know, you pretty much already lost this debate a century ago.

You might be surprised that some people believe what the government does and what it should do are not always the same.  100 years of doing it or not does not necessarily make it right.

In general, sure, but not in this specific case.  Or rather, I'd love to read the arguments about how we'd be better off if all schools were private and there was no requirement to attend.  Yes, let's wax poetic about how great is was when most people barely had any formal education.

lithy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2708 on: May 27, 2014, 05:56:54 PM »
I know this isn't really the thread for this conversation, so this will be my last comment, but if you really are interested in reading an argument, here's one.

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Libertarian/Public%20Schools/Public_Schools1.html


Latwell

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2709 on: May 27, 2014, 07:05:58 PM »
Lol I love reading this thread.

There's another thread that relates to what you wish you could say to your parents about their finances.

However, mine is to my brother and parents. When I lived at home, I was attending school and working full-time and my parents made me pay for everything including giving them rent. My brother works full-time, isn't attending college, and ONLY pays for his car insurance. Seriously... ONLY his car insurance. He's 24 and doesn't even have to pay for his own phone bill. His friend picks him up every day for work and drops him off because they work at the same place 40 mins away yet live in the same town. So he isn't waste money on gas or much car maintenance.

So you would think that working full-time at a half decent job for not having a college degree and having little to no bills, he would have a super amazing savings.. the guy has no clue where any of his money goes. Absolutely no clue what-so-ever. Drives me completely insane. 


warfreak2

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2710 on: May 28, 2014, 05:13:20 AM »
You might be surprised that some people believe what the government does and what it should do are not always the same.  100 years of doing it or not does not necessarily make it right.
I'm not remotely surprised that some people on the fringe still believe things that the rest of the civilised world rejected a long time ago. (If it helps, swap "doesn't" for "shouldn't" and my point is still the same.) I just wonder what they expect to achieve by bringing up long-lost debates of the past on unrelated internet forums. We tried not educating everyone, then we tried educating everyone, and it turns out pretty much all of us accept the latter as a much better plan.

viper155

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2711 on: May 28, 2014, 06:07:14 PM »
     I've been talking to the guys at work about finances lately and I've come to realize that out of the 40 or so regular people I work with there are exactly 2 that I know of that have even a clue about the subject of investing. So, recently at a Union meeting I brought up that I'd like to have a financial representative from our annuity plan come in and give a presentation on how the plan works and what you can invest in.
     Many people balked at the idea because no one really understands it. I said that I understood it and so should everyone else. I then asked for a show of hands as to who knew the difference between a mutual fund, an index fund and a money market account....not one hand went up. Some of these guys have been contributing for over 20 years and have no clue where their money is invested! They were mortified to find out that investing is one of those things that you must self educate yourself about.

mgarl10024

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2712 on: May 29, 2014, 02:04:55 AM »
I then asked for a show of hands as to who knew the difference between a mutual fund, an index fund and a money market account....

I would consider myself pretty financially literate, whilst still quite new to investing.  I don't mind admitting that I would have struggled to answer that.  Having read MMM though I knew what an index fund was!

Scary to think that investing is so important and yet so poorly understood by so many (including me).

SU

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2713 on: May 29, 2014, 03:46:27 AM »
     I've been talking to the guys at work about finances lately and I've come to realize that out of the 40 or so regular people I work with there are exactly 2 that I know of that have even a clue about the subject of investing. So, recently at a Union meeting I brought up that I'd like to have a financial representative from our annuity plan come in and give a presentation on how the plan works and what you can invest in.
     Many people balked at the idea because no one really understands it. I said that I understood it and so should everyone else. I then asked for a show of hands as to who knew the difference between a mutual fund, an index fund and a money market account....not one hand went up. Some of these guys have been contributing for over 20 years and have no clue where their money is invested! They were mortified to find out that investing is one of those things that you must self educate yourself about.

A friend went to a work seminar about their retirement savings accounts. He ended up explaining how the plan worked to everyone else in the room including the presenter. I don't have a great opinion of financial advisors who can't explain their products, but I felt sorry for the presenter getting 'educated' by a professor of economics in front of a room full of his clients.

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2714 on: May 29, 2014, 11:40:24 AM »
     I've been talking to the guys at work about finances lately and I've come to realize that out of the 40 or so regular people I work with there are exactly 2 that I know of that have even a clue about the subject of investing. So, recently at a Union meeting I brought up that I'd like to have a financial representative from our annuity plan come in and give a presentation on how the plan works and what you can invest in.
     Many people balked at the idea because no one really understands it. I said that I understood it and so should everyone else. I then asked for a show of hands as to who knew the difference between a mutual fund, an index fund and a money market account....not one hand went up. Some of these guys have been contributing for over 20 years and have no clue where their money is invested! They were mortified to find out that investing is one of those things that you must self educate yourself about.

A friend went to a work seminar about their retirement savings accounts. He ended up explaining how the plan worked to everyone else in the room including the presenter. I don't have a great opinion of financial advisors who can't explain their products, but I felt sorry for the presenter getting 'educated' by a professor of economics in front of a room full of his clients.

In my experience "presenters" at these type of events are just that; someone from HR who drew the short straw and has to give a presentation on the retirement plan because it's required by policy or whatever. I've been to things like that. People wonder why no one is saving for retirement, who would invest in a program where no one seems to know anything?

Dezrah

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2715 on: May 29, 2014, 01:32:08 PM »
Lol I love reading this thread.

There's another thread that relates to what you wish you could say to your parents about their finances.

However, mine is to my brother and parents. When I lived at home, I was attending school and working full-time and my parents made me pay for everything including giving them rent. My brother works full-time, isn't attending college, and ONLY pays for his car insurance. Seriously... ONLY his car insurance. He's 24 and doesn't even have to pay for his own phone bill. His friend picks him up every day for work and drops him off because they work at the same place 40 mins away yet live in the same town. So he isn't waste money on gas or much car maintenance.

So you would think that working full-time at a half decent job for not having a college degree and having little to no bills, he would have a super amazing savings.. the guy has no clue where any of his money goes. Absolutely no clue what-so-ever. Drives me completely insane.

Latwell, you need to go read this blog post and all the horror stories in the comments.  By the end you won't feel so jealous of your brother being the "golden child".

http://www.etiquettehell.com/?p=4259

lisahi

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2716 on: May 29, 2014, 01:56:20 PM »
     I've been talking to the guys at work about finances lately and I've come to realize that out of the 40 or so regular people I work with there are exactly 2 that I know of that have even a clue about the subject of investing. So, recently at a Union meeting I brought up that I'd like to have a financial representative from our annuity plan come in and give a presentation on how the plan works and what you can invest in.
     Many people balked at the idea because no one really understands it. I said that I understood it and so should everyone else. I then asked for a show of hands as to who knew the difference between a mutual fund, an index fund and a money market account....not one hand went up. Some of these guys have been contributing for over 20 years and have no clue where their money is invested! They were mortified to find out that investing is one of those things that you must self educate yourself about.

I would struggle to verbally answer the question as to the difference between a mutual fund, an index fund and a money market account. I know somewhat, but not enough to try and articulate it. That said, all I care about is whether I'm getting a good return and whether my investments are diversified at the risk level I'm willing to accept at this point in my life. You don't actually need to know a whole lot about the specifics of investing to achieve that through your retirement account. Most retirement investing through employer-provided accounts allows you to pick funds by answering a few questions about what you want and where you want to be at retirement. You then choose the funds which are recommended, and ignore it until you need the money. While I'm sure educating yourself and picking investments for maximum return may be a challenge some people want to take on, you don't need to get into specifics to be able to achieve a decent return on your retirement accounts. The important thing is that you're contributing sufficiently.

Obviously, if you want to invest beyond what is provided by your employer, then you should work to educate yourself on more specifics of choosing funds, diversifying, managing risk, etc.

viper155

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2717 on: May 29, 2014, 02:10:24 PM »
     I've been talking to the guys at work about finances lately and I've come to realize that out of the 40 or so regular people I work with there are exactly 2 that I know of that have even a clue about the subject of investing. So, recently at a Union meeting I brought up that I'd like to have a financial representative from our annuity plan come in and give a presentation on how the plan works and what you can invest in.
     Many people balked at the idea because no one really understands it. I said that I understood it and so should everyone else. I then asked for a show of hands as to who knew the difference between a mutual fund, an index fund and a money market account....not one hand went up. Some of these guys have been contributing for over 20 years and have no clue where their money is invested! They were mortified to find out that investing is one of those things that you must self educate yourself about.

I would struggle to verbally answer the question as to the difference between a mutual fund, an index fund and a money market account. I know somewhat, but not enough to try and articulate it. That said, all I care about is whether I'm getting a good return and whether my investments are diversified at the risk level I'm willing to accept at this point in my life. You don't actually need to know a whole lot about the specifics of investing to achieve that through your retirement account. Most retirement investing through employer-provided accounts allows you to pick funds by answering a few questions about what you want and where you want to be at retirement. You then choose the funds which are recommended, and ignore it until you need the money. While I'm sure educating yourself and picking investments for maximum return may be a challenge some people want to take on, you don't need to get into specifics to be able to achieve a decent return on your retirement accounts. The important thing is that you're contributing sufficiently.

Obviously, if you want to invest beyond what is provided by your employer, then you should work to educate yourself on more specifics of choosing funds, diversifying, managing risk, etc.

With all due respect to you...one of the cardinal rules of investing is "if you dont understand what you are investing in, dont invest in it". You are leaving too much in the hands of others. This info is not complicated and is all over the web. Good luck

lisahi

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2718 on: May 29, 2014, 02:27:13 PM »
     I've been talking to the guys at work about finances lately and I've come to realize that out of the 40 or so regular people I work with there are exactly 2 that I know of that have even a clue about the subject of investing. So, recently at a Union meeting I brought up that I'd like to have a financial representative from our annuity plan come in and give a presentation on how the plan works and what you can invest in.
     Many people balked at the idea because no one really understands it. I said that I understood it and so should everyone else. I then asked for a show of hands as to who knew the difference between a mutual fund, an index fund and a money market account....not one hand went up. Some of these guys have been contributing for over 20 years and have no clue where their money is invested! They were mortified to find out that investing is one of those things that you must self educate yourself about.

I would struggle to verbally answer the question as to the difference between a mutual fund, an index fund and a money market account. I know somewhat, but not enough to try and articulate it. That said, all I care about is whether I'm getting a good return and whether my investments are diversified at the risk level I'm willing to accept at this point in my life. You don't actually need to know a whole lot about the specifics of investing to achieve that through your retirement account. Most retirement investing through employer-provided accounts allows you to pick funds by answering a few questions about what you want and where you want to be at retirement. You then choose the funds which are recommended, and ignore it until you need the money. While I'm sure educating yourself and picking investments for maximum return may be a challenge some people want to take on, you don't need to get into specifics to be able to achieve a decent return on your retirement accounts. The important thing is that you're contributing sufficiently.

Obviously, if you want to invest beyond what is provided by your employer, then you should work to educate yourself on more specifics of choosing funds, diversifying, managing risk, etc.

With all due respect to you...one of the cardinal rules of investing is "if you dont understand what you are investing in, dont invest in it". You are leaving too much in the hands of others. This info is not complicated and is all over the web. Good luck

Look... I do my research. I don't give a rat's ass about being able to articulately explain my investment choices to others because that, to me, is not important. So if you're insinuating that *I* don't know what I'm doing, then that's bunk. If I buy or sell or change my investment strategy, of course I will research before I make a move. That doesn't mean I could sit down and write out with precision the dictionary definitions of certain terms.

If we're talking about the average Jane or Joe investing in their retirement account, I think it would be NICE if they did some research, but no, it's not necessary. Retirement accounts are made for dummies now, and I think that's the way it should be. It's tough enough getting folks to remove a portion of their income and put it away to use for much, much later. Burdening them with the intricacies of investing so they can squeeze every cent out of their retirement account isn't going to incentivize saving for retirement. Will they be leaving some money on the table? Probably. Will it matter in the long run for them as long as they're putting away enough from their paycheck? Unlikely.

Latwell

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2719 on: May 29, 2014, 05:22:02 PM »
Ahh you reminded me of another terrible coworker.

Strike one:
This guy has a 1 bedroom apartment with his cat. He's super close with his parents so I thought it was stupid that he was moving out bc he claims he claims he has practically no savings and is paying off his student loan. As soon as his one car loan was about to be paid off, this guy chooses to trade it in and buy a NEW car. I ask him why but a new car, you were about to have no car payment at all. His response, "it was priced right". A new car is neverrrrr priced right.

I fail to see why it's a strike for an adult to stand on their own and not sponge of mom & dad any longer.  (Now yes, better to have a place where he can also save and to not buy a new car, but still, not making mom & dad foot his lifestyle is good.)

I agree w/ it being good that he move out on his own to be an adult... but there are plenty of ways people can contribute to the household to limit the mooching. Also, the guy got along really really really well with his parents (if I got along w/ my parents as well as he does w/ his, I definitely would have stayed in their home much longer... but unfortunately my parents drive me insane).

And I guess I should have also noted that it felt like the guy was only moving out of his place b/c all of his co-workers were moving into new places and getting new cars.


The_Dude

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2720 on: May 29, 2014, 05:29:19 PM »
I then asked for a show of hands as to who knew the difference between a mutual fund, an index fund and a money market account....not one hand went up.

Without bringing EFT's into it index funds are mutual funds....

Perhaps you meant actively managed mutual funds versus index based mutual funds?

galliver

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2721 on: May 29, 2014, 09:45:26 PM »
Ahh you reminded me of another terrible coworker.

Strike one:
This guy has a 1 bedroom apartment with his cat. He's super close with his parents so I thought it was stupid that he was moving out bc he claims he claims he has practically no savings and is paying off his student loan. As soon as his one car loan was about to be paid off, this guy chooses to trade it in and buy a NEW car. I ask him why but a new car, you were about to have no car payment at all. His response, "it was priced right". A new car is neverrrrr priced right.

I fail to see why it's a strike for an adult to stand on their own and not sponge of mom & dad any longer.  (Now yes, better to have a place where he can also save and to not buy a new car, but still, not making mom & dad foot his lifestyle is good.)

I agree w/ it being good that he move out on his own to be an adult... but there are plenty of ways people can contribute to the household to limit the mooching. Also, the guy got along really really really well with his parents (if I got along w/ my parents as well as he does w/ his, I definitely would have stayed in their home much longer... but unfortunately my parents drive me insane).

And I guess I should have also noted that it felt like the guy was only moving out of his place b/c all of his co-workers were moving into new places and getting new cars.

I find it interesting that most other social conventions get challenged on this site, but "working adults must live separately from their parents" seems to get assumed and defended a fair bit. There's still an undertone of shame or extreme circumstances when that choice is discussed.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2722 on: May 29, 2014, 10:04:42 PM »
I then asked for a show of hands as to who knew the difference between a mutual fund, an index fund and a money market account....not one hand went up.

Without bringing EFT's into it index funds are mutual funds....

Perhaps you meant actively managed mutual funds versus index based mutual funds?

I can explain the difference, but I sure as hell wouldn't raise my hand to do so at a company meeting!

Nords

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2723 on: May 29, 2014, 10:15:31 PM »
I find it interesting that most other social conventions get challenged on this site, but "working adults must live separately from their parents" seems to get assumed and defended a fair bit. There's still an undertone of shame or extreme circumstances when that choice is discussed.
Perhaps it's because the hot chicks are reluctant to spend the night at the bachelor pad of a guy who lives in his mother's basement...

I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, only that it's difficult to procreate those genes to future generations.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2724 on: May 29, 2014, 11:13:20 PM »
I find it interesting that most other social conventions get challenged on this site, but "working adults must live separately from their parents" seems to get assumed and defended a fair bit. There's still an undertone of shame or extreme circumstances when that choice is discussed.
Perhaps it's because the hot chicks are reluctant to spend the night at the bachelor pad of a guy who lives in his mother's basement...

I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, only that it's difficult to procreate those genes to future generations.

Still cultural... in Slovakia 75% of young adults live with their parents.  I'm sure they are still having sex.

limeandpepper

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2725 on: May 29, 2014, 11:23:01 PM »
Still cultural... in Slovakia 75% of young adults live with their parents.  I'm sure they are still having sex.

Haha, yep. In my parents' hometown, we have a bunch of relatives (several different families spanning a few generations) who all live together in a big house. And it seems like every year someone in that house is having a baby.

bikebum

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2726 on: May 29, 2014, 11:33:35 PM »
Someone at my work recently retired, and this guy said he's got another 25 years til he can retire. Then he said I have another 30. I guess he's just looking at our ages and assuming we will retire at 55 or 60. I just kept my mouth shut and smiled to myself. It's kinda fun when people make assumptions about you that are not true; it's like you have a cool secret. He's gonna be surprised one day.

galliver

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2727 on: May 30, 2014, 12:02:17 AM »
I find it interesting that most other social conventions get challenged on this site, but "working adults must live separately from their parents" seems to get assumed and defended a fair bit. There's still an undertone of shame or extreme circumstances when that choice is discussed.
Perhaps it's because the hot chicks are reluctant to spend the night at the bachelor pad of a guy who lives in his mother's basement...

I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, only that it's difficult to procreate those genes to future generations.

To the best of my understanding, the purpose of a guy (is he hot too? that wasn't specified for some reason) bringing "hot chicks" back to his "pad" to "spend the night" is not procreation.  In fact procreation is a pretty undesirable outcome in these situations ;)

johnintaiwan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2728 on: May 30, 2014, 01:20:13 AM »
Common in TW for people to live with parents until they get married. But that is why there are so many motels you can rent for 3 hrs at a time which include free porno, hot tubs and the like. .. I mean thats what I have heard anyway...

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2729 on: May 30, 2014, 01:24:07 AM »
So if you're insinuating that *I* don't know what I'm doing, then that's bunk. If I buy or sell or change my investment strategy, of course I will research before I make a move. That doesn't mean I could sit down and write out with precision the dictionary definitions of certain terms.
I don't think they're insinuating it, I think you said it.

Quote
If we're talking about the average Jane or Joe investing in their retirement account, I think it would be NICE if they did some research, but no, it's not necessary. Retirement accounts are made for dummies now, and I think that's the way it should be.
I entirely disagree. If they don't know their VTSAX from their elbow, how are they going to avoid signing up for a variable annuity with 3%-a-year fees when they finally do decide to put money away? Investors may not need to know the differences between MSCI and CRSP indices, but they need to know what exactly they're investing in, how it works, and what it costs - especially if their intermediaries are trying to make fee disclosures as opaque as possible and HR knows fuck-all about the plan they're offering.

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2730 on: May 30, 2014, 01:24:52 AM »
Do I sense a secondthird coming of the living with parents debate?

Adventine

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2731 on: May 30, 2014, 04:24:50 AM »
Common in TW for people to live with parents until they get married. But that is why there are so many motels you can rent for 3 hrs at a time which include free porno, hot tubs and the like. .. I mean thats what I have heard anyway...

Same where I live. Not that I've had any personal experience. Ahem.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2732 on: May 30, 2014, 05:41:05 AM »
Common in TW for people to live with parents until they get married. But that is why there are so many motels you can rent for 3 hrs at a time which include free porno, hot tubs and the like. .. I mean thats what I have heard anyway...

Same where I live. Not that I've had any personal experience. Ahem.
This whole sharing economy is out of control!

There's at least one university in England where dorm rooms are not only single occupancy (no need to "reserve" room from roommate!), but they even provide queen size beds.

Beaker

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2733 on: May 30, 2014, 09:05:32 AM »
I also have people who come in all the time and want me to save their home.  I ask them "how much were you making a month when you bought the home" and the'll reply "$2,500 a month."  I then ask them "how much was your mortgage payment a month" and they'll say "$2,200."  And then they'll go into a rant as to how this is the bank's fault and that they are at no fault for failing to make their mortgage payments.

Aside from the shame on those people for borrowing to pay 2200 p/m when they earn 2500 p/m, I would also say shame on the lending institution...  Seriously we know that a lot of people don't understand money, but you would think that the people lending them money would know better, especially as in the US you have the ability to lock in interest rates...

Note: I live in Australia, interest rates are mostly variable, with the ability to lock in for 5 years.  There are also tighter lending restrictions which include loan servicability, I believe that currently, sensible lending institutions look at whether the people can service the loan at an 8% interest rate, current rates are around 5-6%.

I tend to agree - it takes two to make a stupid loan.

I got my first mortgage back in the pre-crash days. Having just switched jobs, I ended up with a "No Documentation" loan. They literally just asked me what I made, and accepted the answer I gave them without checking. The broker literally called it a "Liar's Loan" because most people got them so that they could buy a house that they couldn't actually afford. I probably could've told them I made a million billion trillion dollars per year and they would've just asked how many zeroes that was. Ridiculous for the bank to offer it, and equally ridiculous for all the people that took it as an opportunity to get into massive debt.

CommonCents

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2734 on: May 30, 2014, 09:13:42 AM »
Ahh you reminded me of another terrible coworker.

Strike one:
This guy has a 1 bedroom apartment with his cat. He's super close with his parents so I thought it was stupid that he was moving out bc he claims he claims he has practically no savings and is paying off his student loan. As soon as his one car loan was about to be paid off, this guy chooses to trade it in and buy a NEW car. I ask him why but a new car, you were about to have no car payment at all. His response, "it was priced right". A new car is neverrrrr priced right.

I fail to see why it's a strike for an adult to stand on their own and not sponge of mom & dad any longer.  (Now yes, better to have a place where he can also save and to not buy a new car, but still, not making mom & dad foot his lifestyle is good.)

I agree w/ it being good that he move out on his own to be an adult... but there are plenty of ways people can contribute to the household to limit the mooching. Also, the guy got along really really really well with his parents (if I got along w/ my parents as well as he does w/ his, I definitely would have stayed in their home much longer... but unfortunately my parents drive me insane).

And I guess I should have also noted that it felt like the guy was only moving out of his place b/c all of his co-workers were moving into new places and getting new cars.

I find it interesting that most other social conventions get challenged on this site, but "working adults must live separately from their parents" seems to get assumed and defended a fair bit. There's still an undertone of shame or extreme circumstances when that choice is discussed.

If you read above, you'll see my issue is with the "sponging" off mom & dad (or anyone really).  If his parents are ok with him living at home AND HE PAYS HIS FAIR SHARE OF THE BILLS (and by this, I don't just mean his cell bill but everything, including rent or money to the mortgage), then great but that wasn't the impression I got.

lisahi

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2735 on: May 30, 2014, 09:22:58 AM »
So if you're insinuating that *I* don't know what I'm doing, then that's bunk. If I buy or sell or change my investment strategy, of course I will research before I make a move. That doesn't mean I could sit down and write out with precision the dictionary definitions of certain terms.
I don't think they're insinuating it, I think you said it.

Quote
If we're talking about the average Jane or Joe investing in their retirement account, I think it would be NICE if they did some research, but no, it's not necessary. Retirement accounts are made for dummies now, and I think that's the way it should be.
I entirely disagree. If they don't know their VTSAX from their elbow, how are they going to avoid signing up for a variable annuity with 3%-a-year fees when they finally do decide to put money away? Investors may not need to know the differences between MSCI and CRSP indices, but they need to know what exactly they're investing in, how it works, and what it costs - especially if their intermediaries are trying to make fee disclosures as opaque as possible and HR knows fuck-all about the plan they're offering.

I can see you didn't get what I was trying to say, but that could be my fault and that's fine. This is an argument not worth having and I'm not invested in what you think I did or didn't mean or do or don't know. So let's get back to the purpose of this thread.

iris lily

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2736 on: May 30, 2014, 10:16:32 AM »
Our Mustachian friend moved into his parents home when he was in his 30's in order to save money--fast--for a house. It was fine with them and I doubt that he paid for anything because they had no debt (house and cars paid for--his father wanted to do all the yard work himself etc. being VERY Mustachian.)

DH lived with his parents, on their farm, into his 30's. He helped with farm work during the season. He saved up a nice 'stache doing so, and that initial 'stache propelled us into big 'stache territory 25 years later. And not surprisingly, DH's parents are very frugal and will die multi-Millionaires.

There's nothing wrong with responsible adult children living in the parental home, paying or not paying to stay there, when all parties agree it's a good thing.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 10:19:15 AM by iris lily »

PeteD01

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2737 on: May 30, 2014, 10:28:15 AM »
All of these examples show a real lack of effort on the part of the US gvt to educate its citizens about simple financial matters.

It is not the US govts job to "educate" its citizenry.

But they are doing it anyways:

http://investor.gov/


Not a bad resource at all.

Insanity

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2738 on: May 30, 2014, 10:30:58 AM »
Our Mustachian friend moved into his parents home when he was in his 30's in order to save money--fast--for a house. It was fine with them, I doubt that he paid for anything because they had no debt (house and cars paid for--his father wanted to do all the yard work himself etc. being VERY Mustachian themselves.)

DH lived with his parents, on their farm, into his 30's. He helped with farm work during the season. He saved up a nice 'stache doing so, and that initial 'stache propelled us into big 'stache territory 25 years later.

There's nothing wrong with responsible adult children living in the parental home, paying or not paying to stay there, when all parties agree it's a good thing.

Yep. It totally depends on the relationship. We have a loan with my parents where every payment they fight me on paying it back.  They wouldn't care if we lived with them and didn't pay any rent, food, or whatever. 


Le0

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2739 on: May 30, 2014, 02:24:40 PM »
I have to weigh in here. My brother is in his second year of university. My mother works at the university, which is about a 20 min bike from home. She bikes when ever the weather lets her.

Because she works at the university my brother and sister get free tuition (GRRR I missed out). So you would think that my brother would live at home, work in the summer and save money while attending school. Maybe even buy a house once he gets a 'real' job. Nope he chooses to rent a house in town, about 20 mins on the other side of the university. Everything he makes goes to paying for his lifestyle, and to top it off, he missed a rent payment recently, and is talking about dropping out of school to work. (I am not against not going to school, but when its free its hard to argue against it)

Nothing I say can turn him around, he does what feels good.

One case where he should be living at home.

MamaStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2740 on: May 30, 2014, 02:32:22 PM »
Conversation on Tuesday:
Me:   What did you guys do this weekend?
Co-worker: Went to the casino with my friend.   We lost.

Conversation on Wednesday:
Co-worker: OK, tell me if you think I'm a bad mom.  Stacy and Chad* (children's names changed) want to join soccer this summer.  It's costs $100 each for them to join.  If I pay by the end of next week, I can save 10%. 
Me: Oh cool...
Co-worker:  Well, I already told them they could play.  But I am thinking about it now that it is really expensive and they both got a $50 bill from Christmas that they didn't spend yet.  I think I am going to tell them they have to pay $50 each towards sign up costs if they want to play.
Me: That would be a good lession in priorities and money for them, but you already told them they could play.
Co-worker:  yeah but I can talk them into using their own money.
Me: At least don't make them pay all of their Christmas money.   They will be paying over 1/2..... and you already told them they could play!

I just feel bad that she feels that trips to the casino are affordable but investing in activities she promised her children are not.

AlanStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2741 on: May 30, 2014, 02:44:09 PM »
Conversation on Tuesday:
Me:   What did you guys do this weekend?
Co-worker: Went to the casino with my friend.   We lost.

Conversation on Wednesday:
Co-worker: OK, tell me if you think I'm a bad mom.  Stacy and Chad* (children's names changed) want to join soccer this summer.  It's costs $100 each for them to join.  If I pay by the end of next week, I can save 10%. 
Me: Oh cool...
Co-worker:  Well, I already told them they could play.  But I am thinking about it now that it is really expensive and they both got a $50 bill from Christmas that they didn't spend yet.  I think I am going to tell them they have to pay $50 each towards sign up costs if they want to play.
Me: That would be a good lession in priorities and money for them, but you already told them they could play.
Co-worker:  yeah but I can talk them into using their own money.
Me: At least don't make them pay all of their Christmas money.   They will be paying over 1/2..... and you already told them they could play!

I just feel bad that she feels that trips to the casino are affordable but investing in activities she promised her children are not.

dont have kids but that seems like a shit thing to do.  I will gamble a bit bit draw the line at 50$ a few times a year.  Just seems like changing the rules half way along, "O-you want to eat this week, well you remember that tooth fairy money...".
 
At some point would it be ok to tell your kids that they have say a 300$ per year (or some such) event/activity budget and that includes birthday parties and sports and holding them to that?

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2742 on: May 30, 2014, 03:31:06 PM »
Maybe she has work to get done? That's the most generous explanation.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2743 on: May 30, 2014, 04:12:22 PM »
Maybe she has work to get done? That's the most generous explanation.

Or maybe he's worried about UV exposure?

bikebum

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2744 on: May 30, 2014, 06:58:13 PM »
Our Mustachian friend moved into his parents home when he was in his 30's in order to save money--fast--for a house. It was fine with them, I doubt that he paid for anything because they had no debt (house and cars paid for--his father wanted to do all the yard work himself etc. being VERY Mustachian themselves.)

DH lived with his parents, on their farm, into his 30's. He helped with farm work during the season. He saved up a nice 'stache doing so, and that initial 'stache propelled us into big 'stache territory 25 years later.

There's nothing wrong with responsible adult children living in the parental home, paying or not paying to stay there, when all parties agree it's a good thing.

Yep. It totally depends on the relationship. We have a loan with my parents where every payment they fight me on paying it back.  They wouldn't care if we lived with them and didn't pay any rent, food, or whatever.

I lived with my parents as a working professional for a while. I paid rent, but when I decided to save and buy a house, they said to not pay rent anymore and put it towards the down payment. That allowed me to get my own house really fast. It was a good thing for me.

limeandpepper

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2745 on: May 30, 2014, 07:12:27 PM »
There's nothing wrong with responsible adult children living in the parental home, paying or not paying to stay there, when all parties agree it's a good thing.

+1

If the parents don't care about payment, not sure why a stranger should decide what's wrong for someone else's family matters.

shortly

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2746 on: May 30, 2014, 07:22:22 PM »
A coworker just traded in a three-year-old car (3,000 miles on it, still upside down on its loan) and bought a new car. Payments on the new car are over $700 per month for who knows how long.

Yes, 3,000 miles is correct.

The really bad part? The aforementioned coworker and spouse both work (at the same place) with me and ride together everyday - in the spouse's car that also has a giant payment.

greenmimama

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2747 on: May 30, 2014, 09:19:27 PM »
A coworker just traded in a three-year-old car (3,000 miles on it, still upside down on its loan) and bought a new car. Payments on the new car are over $700 per month for who knows how long.

Yes, 3,000 miles is correct.

The really bad part? The aforementioned coworker and spouse both work (at the same place) with me and ride together everyday - in the spouse's car that also has a giant payment.

Whoa, talk about overkill

Latwell

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2748 on: May 30, 2014, 10:23:45 PM »
Ahh you reminded me of another terrible coworker.

Strike one:
This guy has a 1 bedroom apartment with his cat. He's super close with his parents so I thought it was stupid that he was moving out bc he claims he claims he has practically no savings and is paying off his student loan. As soon as his one car loan was about to be paid off, this guy chooses to trade it in and buy a NEW car. I ask him why but a new car, you were about to have no car payment at all. His response, "it was priced right". A new car is neverrrrr priced right.

I fail to see why it's a strike for an adult to stand on their own and not sponge of mom & dad any longer.  (Now yes, better to have a place where he can also save and to not buy a new car, but still, not making mom & dad foot his lifestyle is good.)

By the way, strike one wasn't him moving out of his parents house. The moving out part background leading to strike #2. Strike 1 was him buying a NEW car bc it's "priced right". Strike 2 was him seriously considering to upgrade his apartment from a 1 bedroom to 2 bedroom so his cat has more room.

Hedge_87

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #2749 on: May 31, 2014, 05:13:18 AM »
Today a young coworker was complaining about retirement to an older coworker. The conversation went something like this
Young cw "I'll never be able to retire thanks to Obama and the nazis blah blah blah"
Old cw "if I was your age I would just try and save one dollar everyday and put that in a savings account you would be set by the time you retire"