Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8476975 times)

honeybbq

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10250 on: September 01, 2015, 10:27:03 AM »
I see my story about soda started a multi-page argument about weight gain/loss so let's get off that non-comedic topic and move on to more stories. That's what this thread is about anyway right?

Anyway my coworkers and I are all software engineers... make good money... so we're all talking and one CW is complaining about how his insurance is going to drop him if he starts driving for uber... Now i'm confused because usually people at my work are at least fairly responsible or at least make enough money to not be drowning in our low COL area. So i'm wondering why would someone with his skillset want to drive for uber. Apparently they literally need the extra paycheck and cant live without it.

So I said: "My solution is to not spend so much money"
He said: "HAHA... Well tell my wife that..."

I was thinking: "YEA... TELL YOUR WIFE THAT!"

Maybe it's just a side gig for some extra FIRE money?

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10251 on: September 01, 2015, 10:29:50 AM »
Just heard a CW is moving to Detroit and "has to buy an SUV" because of snow.

The cheapest thing even being considered is $35K.

Depending on where in Detroit, that's either going to blend in or stick out like a sore thumb.

mlejw6

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10252 on: September 01, 2015, 11:50:43 AM »
Yeah, both those cases are definitely cases of no-fault. What I think the other person meant is that while the other party has a significant blame, statistically it likely is the case that people that are in multiple no-fault accidents might have been able to prevent them. I hate the fact but it is likely true.

That's a lot of "likely" with no facts to back it up...  do you have some evidence of the percent of no-fault accidents that could be prevented without damage/danger to either party, or any other party on the road? I'd love to know how this research occurs.

I have no idea what the other person MEANT; but what they said was
Quote
that is why I don't really buy "not-at-fault" accidents unless there are extenuating circumstances.
So what are the extenuating circumstances?  Both of the situations you described as "definitely no fault" didn't sound like there was anything extenuating- just completely normal driving conditions.

Because I totally buy "no fault" accidents.  In general, there is nothing I can do about complete morons on the road.  There is only so much avoidance that can safely be done.

I believe merula was specifically talking about drivers with multiple accidents (I'm thinking, more than three or four?) on their record. I'm with him/her that some of them are probably at-fault accidents. I've been driving 20 years and have had exactly one accident in my entire life when I was 16. It was clearly not my fault. When you drive defensively, you can avoid getting into accidents. This involves:

-always be aware of everything going on around you (no distractions in the car, like phones)
-follow vehicles at a safe distance
-give yourself plenty of stopping distance
-always use signals BEFORE you move (not as you move - you need to give people time to process the signal)
-no driving under the influence or when you're tired
-obey all traffic laws, signals, and signs
-I also avoid driving next to other vehicles when I can - speed up or slow down if someone is driving next to you.

Of all those, the first is the most important and the thing that will help you avoid accidents. I was once driving behind a white van at night. The van had lots of long work ladders on its roof. I moved into the other lane, simply because I don't like driving behind vehicles if I can help it. One of the ladders fell off the van after I had switched lanes. By being aware, I avoided a pretty nasty accident.

mlejw6

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10253 on: September 01, 2015, 12:04:56 PM »
And, to get back on topic:

CW: I'm getting a new car.
Me: What's wrong with this car? (It's a manual Nissan Altima, circa 2005 I think)
CW: We need a bigger car because hubby needs a boat. And, the Nissan has a vibration in the front - see how my water is vibrating?
Me: <thinking: don't most cars vibrate?> So what are you getting?
CW: A Ford F-150 quad cab.
Me: <sigh>

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10254 on: September 01, 2015, 12:07:44 PM »
Quote
I'm a much better driver than I was in high school and remember getting into a bad crash. I was driving straight through a 4 way intersection (light was green) and a lady decided to take a left turn straight into me. It was clearly her fault, but I know that I might have been able to see it coming with some awareness...as she didn't look like she was even looking to see if there was any other traffic. Of course the insurance said I was at no fault as I had the right of way, but nowadays I would like to think that I would be better able to see it coming and anticipate it. There are multiple times when being aware helps prevent collisions and that while the other person's insurance will cover it..I would prefer not to be hit, or risk being hit.

We've been rear ended a couple of times.

But one day we were at a light near my office on the weekend (had gone for a hike, and I was pregnant, and stopped at work to pee).

Anyway, we were chatting with my son in the back, and the light turned green for us (we were turning left).  My husband didn't go.  I turned to him and said "why aren't you go..." CRASH.

We were going to turn left, and there was a woman coming from the opposite direction either left or straight (out of a parking lot at the same light), and someone coming from the other direction (the red light) ran the red light.

My husband had been paying attention to the traffic and realized that the guy wasn't going to stop.

Whew.

Police came, he gave a report, and ended up going to court for the police because the guy fought the ticket.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10255 on: September 01, 2015, 12:14:53 PM »
Good drivers avoid accidents... lol, fuck that.  If you "avoid" an accident and have your own accident then who is at fault?

I avoided an accident and got accused of causing the accident by the police. I don't ever avoid that shit anymore.

I used to have a commute that had a merge situation where every doucebag thought they'd save hours of their day by being one car ahead so there was constantly close calls. I stopped avoiding them.

I've avoided a few accidents on the highway where if I was unlucky could have caused more problems.  For example, I was once driving on the freeway late at night at normal highway speeds and there was another car that was going maybe 30-40.  For some reason he decided to merge into my lane right in front of me, causing me to hit the brakes and also swerve around him.  I did not have time to check my mirrors/blindspot and I could easily have plowed another car in doing so, or caused a pileup.  Luckily, the highway was empty.  I'd like to say that I have total situational awareness at all times and that I subconsciously knew there was no car next to me, but to be honest I was just scared for my life and acted instinctually.   I'm also amazed my boring sedan handled the maneuver without flipping over or spinning out.

Anyway, unless every single accident is something where it came out of nowhere with no way for her to prevent it, I really doubt that she's not somehow at fault. I'm an insurance underwriter, and I've looked at thousands of driving records. I've never seen any driver with multiple accidents that didn't also have more tickets than accidents. Good drivers drive defensively and avoid accidents; that is why I don't really buy "not-at-fault" accidents unless there are extenuating circumstances.

I've been in two car accidents while driving.

One happened when I slowed down and stopped on the right most lane of the highway because there was a crash up ahead that blocked the whole road (I got rear ended about ten seconds after stopping, while I was talking with my wife).  One happened when I was driving in a left lane.  A car in the right lane drove past and slightly in front of me, then changed lanes by swerving into my car without signalling (or checking his blind spot).  Both were considered no fault on my part by insurance . . . and honestly, from where I'm sitting there's no real action that could have been taken on my part to prevent either.

From my perspective, most no fault accidents happen because of a large error on the part of the other party.

Not your fault, but there were probably things you could have done to avoid that. 

For example, be aware that stopping on the side of a highway is extremely dangerous.  Did you have your hazard lights on?  Some people would even pop a flare or two.  Finally, in a situation like that, I'd keep an eye on the rearview.  See a car coming?  Honk, drive forward, I dunno.  These are not mandatory things in any way, but they are also reasonable things to reduce change of collision.

The left lane thing is more obvious to me.  Why are you in the left lane anyways if you are not passing?  If I'm hugging the left lane and a car is passing on my right, I'm keenly aware that they might want to merge in front of me and I'll probably be merging right after they do because I'm going too slow.  A lot of drivers who pass people going "slow" in the left lane will pass right and then merge close to make a dickish point.  It's their fault, and they are dicks, but it's avoidable if you drive like a grandma on the right side.

Again, I'm not victim blaming here, just saying that there are people out there that are very defensive drivers and probably wouldn't have gotten in those two accidents regardless of fault.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10256 on: September 01, 2015, 12:17:07 PM »
And, to get back on topic:

CW: I'm getting a new car.
Me: What's wrong with this car? (It's a manual Nissan Altima, circa 2005 I think)
CW: We need a bigger car because hubby needs a boat. And, the Nissan has a vibration in the front - see how my water is vibrating?
Me: <thinking: don't most cars vibrate?> So what are you getting?
CW: A Ford F-150 quad cab.
Me: <sigh>


katstache92

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10257 on: September 01, 2015, 12:17:26 PM »
The other week I was filling in for my manager at a staff meeting with all of the other managers in the department and their boss.  A recent retirement benefits presentation was brought up and the big boss asked how it went and then said, "so is anyone going to be retiring early now?"  The managers then proceeded to discuss how impossible that was and even if you could do it, it wouldn't make any sense and definitely wasn't safe.

Sigh.

Meanwhile I was overjoyed after going to the presentation because I learned details about the pension and realized I can retire even earlier than I thought!

Louis the Cat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10258 on: September 01, 2015, 12:34:38 PM »

...

I'm a much better driver than I was in high school and remember getting into a bad crash. I was driving straight through a 4 way intersection (light was green) and a lady decided to take a left turn straight into me. It was clearly her fault, but I know that I might have been able to see it coming with some awareness...as she didn't look like she was even looking to see if there was any other traffic. Of course the insurance said I was at no fault as I had the right of way, but nowadays I would like to think that I would be better able to see it coming and anticipate it. There are multiple times when being aware helps prevent collisions and that while the other person's insurance will cover it..I would prefer not to be hit, or risk being hit.

...

I was this idiot when I was 16...the only accident I've ever caused (not counting some minor incidents in parking lots while I learned where my car stopped and other peoples' cars started). Pretty sure the poor lady who's car I totaled couldn't have done anything about it because I was making a blind left turn in front of a fire truck (stopped). What I remember most was how bad she felt for me! It was quite stunning considering I'd totaled her car and my truck (Dad's F150) had one minor scratch.

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10259 on: September 01, 2015, 12:35:07 PM »
Not your fault, but there were probably things you could have done to avoid that. 

For example, be aware that stopping on the side of a highway is extremely dangerous.  Did you have your hazard lights on?  Some people would even pop a flare or two.  Finally, in a situation like that, I'd keep an eye on the rearview.  See a car coming?  Honk, drive forward, I dunno.  These are not mandatory things in any way, but they are also reasonable things to reduce change of collision.


I wasn't stopped on the side of the highway, I was stopped in my lane.  The two lanes to the left of me were also filled with stopped cars.  Emergency vehicles were coming up the right hand side shoulder, and there were some in front of me.

My hazards were on.  It was snowing and all three lanes in front of me were blocked with a pile up of cars/emergency vehicles.  I don't keep flares at hand in the car to pop within a few seconds of coming to a stop on the highway - this sounds like a rather silly suggestion.  How effective do you think honking at the emergency crews in front of me would have been in preventing the car behind from hitting me?

Looking in the rearview mirror while stopped certainly wouldn't have changed the outcome in any way.



The left lane thing is more obvious to me.  Why are you in the left lane anyways if you are not passing?  If I'm hugging the left lane and a car is passing on my right, I'm keenly aware that they might want to merge in front of me and I'll probably be merging right after they do because I'm going too slow.  A lot of drivers who pass people going "slow" in the left lane will pass right and then merge close to make a dickish point.  It's their fault, and they are dicks, but it's avoidable if you drive like a grandma on the right side.

I was in the left turn lane, about a hundred meters from the left turn that I needed to make.




These are the only two accidents I've been in over my 19 years of driving, and I do try to drive safely.  Still not seeing how these accidents were avoidable.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 12:48:16 PM by GuitarStv »

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10260 on: September 01, 2015, 12:40:49 PM »

Anyway, we were chatting with my son in the back, and the light turned green for us (we were turning left).  My husband didn't go.  I turned to him and said "why aren't you go..." CRASH.


I'm always really hesitant to go right as the light turns because of this.  I know which intersections it is most common with in our town too...


Which reminds me of another accident I was in (though I didn't make an insurance claim because I was unhurt and preferred the dents in my car than explaining to my parents why I got into a car accident in a city I wasn't supposed to be in...).

It was raining very hard, at about 4:30 am, and I came to a 4 way stop.  I stopped, looked, and then proceeded slowly because of the hard rain.  I was then rammed into, fast, by a car I hadn't seen at all when I looked.

The guy gets out of the car and says "oh, I don't know what I was thinking. I go this way every morning and today it just didn't even occur to me to stop."

I guess he hit my car just right that nothing crumpled and I just had pock marks along the side of the car.  Scared the crap out of me before a 115 mile drive to get to class though!

Again- nothing I could have done.  Already I took the "proceed slowly just in case" instead of just "stop, okay, go" approach.  He was speeding (so I couldn't have seen him when I was stopped- he was too far away) and didn't stop.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10261 on: September 01, 2015, 12:49:32 PM »
Anyway, unless every single accident is something where it came out of nowhere with no way for her to prevent it, I really doubt that she's not somehow at fault. I'm an insurance underwriter, and I've looked at thousands of driving records. I've never seen any driver with multiple accidents that didn't also have more tickets than accidents. Good drivers drive defensively and avoid accidents; that is why I don't really buy "not-at-fault" accidents unless there are extenuating circumstances.

I've been in two car accidents while driving.

One happened when I slowed down and stopped on the right most lane of the highway because there was a crash up ahead that blocked the whole road (I got rear ended about ten seconds after stopping, while I was talking with my wife).  One happened when I was driving in a left lane.  A car in the right lane drove past and slightly in front of me, then changed lanes by swerving into my car without signalling (or checking his blind spot).  Both were considered no fault on my part by insurance . . . and honestly, from where I'm sitting there's no real action that could have been taken on my part to prevent either.

From my perspective, most no fault accidents happen because of a large error on the part of the other party.

Yeah, both those cases are definitely cases of no-fault. What I think the other person meant is that while the other party has a significant blame, statistically it likely is the case that people that are in multiple no-fault accidents might have been able to prevent them. I hate the fact but it is likely true.

Actually both of those cases are clearly at-fault cases.  The other driver is at-fault.  No-fault cases are when neither driver could have prevented the accident. 

skunkfunk

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10262 on: September 01, 2015, 12:55:41 PM »
Yeah, I'm going to have to sort of disagree with you there. (Sorry, I just really wanted to get in on the Office Space quotes.)

Anyway, unless every single accident is something where it came out of nowhere with no way for her to prevent it, I really doubt that she's not somehow at fault. I'm an insurance underwriter, and I've looked at thousands of driving records. I've never seen any driver with multiple accidents that didn't also have more tickets than accidents. Good drivers drive defensively and avoid accidents; that is why I don't really buy "not-at-fault" accidents unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Twice this year I've been stopped at a red light and been rear-ended. Am I an at-fault idiot? Come on, that's twice in 6 months, in two different cars! I haven't put 2000 miles on those cars combined this year, smells fishy right?

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10263 on: September 01, 2015, 01:01:29 PM »
Wow, I'm surprised at how offended people are getting over this.  Do you not agree that some people are better than others at avoiding accidents that wouldn't have been their fault?  No one's saying there's no such thing as a no-fault accident.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10264 on: September 01, 2015, 01:02:48 PM »

Twice this year I've been stopped at a red light and been rear-ended. Am I an at-fault idiot? Come on, that's twice in 6 months, in two different cars! I haven't put 2000 miles on those cars combined this year, smells fishy right?

Clearly you should have just gone through. Stopping causes accidents.

skunkfunk

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10265 on: September 01, 2015, 01:07:51 PM »
Not your fault, but there were probably things you could have done to avoid that. 

For example, be aware that stopping on the side of a highway is extremely dangerous.  Did you have your hazard lights on?  Some people would even pop a flare or two.  Finally, in a situation like that, I'd keep an eye on the rearview.  See a car coming?  Honk, drive forward, I dunno.  These are not mandatory things in any way, but they are also reasonable things to reduce change of collision.


I wasn't stopped on the side of the highway, I was stopped in my lane.  The two lanes to the left of me were also filled with stopped cars.  Emergency vehicles were coming up the right hand side shoulder, and there were some in front of me.

My hazards were on.  It was snowing and all three lanes in front of me were blocked with a pile up of cars/emergency vehicles.  I don't keep flares at hand in the car to pop within a few seconds of coming to a stop on the highway - this sounds like a rather silly suggestion.  How effective do you think honking at the emergency crews in front of me would have been in preventing the car behind from hitting me?

Looking in the rearview mirror while stopped certainly wouldn't have changed the outcome in any way.



The left lane thing is more obvious to me.  Why are you in the left lane anyways if you are not passing?  If I'm hugging the left lane and a car is passing on my right, I'm keenly aware that they might want to merge in front of me and I'll probably be merging right after they do because I'm going too slow.  A lot of drivers who pass people going "slow" in the left lane will pass right and then merge close to make a dickish point.  It's their fault, and they are dicks, but it's avoidable if you drive like a grandma on the right side.

I was in the left turn lane, about a hundred meters from the left turn that I needed to make.

These are the only two accidents I've been in over my 19 years of driving, and I do try to drive safely.  Still not seeing how these accidents were avoidable.

Err, I've been that idiot... I could tell my lane on the interstate (middle lane) would be slowing very soon, look over my shoulder to see if I can change lanes and next thing I know I've totaled some poor girl's Scion xB. I'm extremely nervous about when I can look over my shoulder now.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10266 on: September 01, 2015, 02:28:11 PM »
Not your fault, but there were probably things you could have done to avoid that. 

For example, be aware that stopping on the side of a highway is extremely dangerous.  Did you have your hazard lights on?  Some people would even pop a flare or two.  Finally, in a situation like that, I'd keep an eye on the rearview.  See a car coming?  Honk, drive forward, I dunno.  These are not mandatory things in any way, but they are also reasonable things to reduce change of collision.


I wasn't stopped on the side of the highway, I was stopped in my lane.  The two lanes to the left of me were also filled with stopped cars.  Emergency vehicles were coming up the right hand side shoulder, and there were some in front of me.

My hazards were on.  It was snowing and all three lanes in front of me were blocked with a pile up of cars/emergency vehicles.  I don't keep flares at hand in the car to pop within a few seconds of coming to a stop on the highway - this sounds like a rather silly suggestion.  How effective do you think honking at the emergency crews in front of me would have been in preventing the car behind from hitting me?

Looking in the rearview mirror while stopped certainly wouldn't have changed the outcome in any way.



The left lane thing is more obvious to me.  Why are you in the left lane anyways if you are not passing?  If I'm hugging the left lane and a car is passing on my right, I'm keenly aware that they might want to merge in front of me and I'll probably be merging right after they do because I'm going too slow.  A lot of drivers who pass people going "slow" in the left lane will pass right and then merge close to make a dickish point.  It's their fault, and they are dicks, but it's avoidable if you drive like a grandma on the right side.

I was in the left turn lane, about a hundred meters from the left turn that I needed to make.




These are the only two accidents I've been in over my 19 years of driving, and I do try to drive safely.  Still not seeing how these accidents were avoidable.

This whole conversation could have been avoided if I practiced defensive forum reading

crispy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10267 on: September 01, 2015, 02:44:13 PM »
I have a friend who is totally crap at budgeting. One week she won't be able to buy groceries, then she'll get money and be going out to eat, buying new stuff for the house, buys expensive presents like a Chromebook for her 7 yo, etc. Her general MO with cars is basically to buy a crappy car using her tax refund, then at some point it either gets totaled (she's had awful luck with accidents, which probably is not her fault) or incurs a need for some repair that runs into multi hundreds and she can't afford it, so she scraps the whole thing and buys another car using next year's tax refund. When we bought our new car we gave her our old one because she was driving around in this death trap. It's lasted her a year, which is longer than any of her previous cars, but I wonder how long until it needs a $400 repair she can't afford.


Yeah, I'm going to have to sort of disagree with you there. (Sorry, I just really wanted to get in on the Office Space quotes.)

Anyway, unless every single accident is something where it came out of nowhere with no way for her to prevent it, I really doubt that she's not somehow at fault. I'm an insurance underwriter, and I've looked at thousands of driving records. I've never seen any driver with multiple accidents that didn't also have more tickets than accidents. Good drivers drive defensively and avoid accidents; that is why I don't really buy "not-at-fault" accidents unless there are extenuating circumstances.


I have been rear-ended three times in the same stupid car...definitely not my fault any time, but I do wonder if the dark gray car was invisible.  Once I was rear-ended at a red light, once I was rear-ended by a teen who was texting and not paying attention, and two weeks ago I was rear-ended in heavy traffic when I had to slam on my breaks to avoid hitting the car in front of me who decided to stop suddenly and turn with no blinker (don't really blame the guy who hit me here although he was obviously following too closely).  Anyway, none of these were my fault.  The car is totaled now which is sort of a relief because I swear it attracted accidents.

I was also in an accident several years back where a car pulled in front of me and stopped on the road as I was going straight down the highway.  I was blowing my horn like crazy and swerved to avoid T-boning her driver side.  Again, not my fault.  Sometimes, people are just unlucky.

I have only received one ticket in my life and it was for speeding about 8 miles over the speed limit. 

If I sound defensive, it's because I am still in pain from having a Dodge Ram slam into me going 40mph.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 02:54:17 PM by crispy »

UnleashHell

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10268 on: September 01, 2015, 03:18:47 PM »
I have a friend who is totally crap at budgeting. One week she won't be able to buy groceries, then she'll get money and be going out to eat, buying new stuff for the house, buys expensive presents like a Chromebook for her 7 yo, etc. Her general MO with cars is basically to buy a crappy car using her tax refund, then at some point it either gets totaled (she's had awful luck with accidents, which probably is not her fault) or incurs a need for some repair that runs into multi hundreds and she can't afford it, so she scraps the whole thing and buys another car using next year's tax refund. When we bought our new car we gave her our old one because she was driving around in this death trap. It's lasted her a year, which is longer than any of her previous cars, but I wonder how long until it needs a $400 repair she can't afford.


Yeah, I'm going to have to sort of disagree with you there. (Sorry, I just really wanted to get in on the Office Space quotes.)

Anyway, unless every single accident is something where it came out of nowhere with no way for her to prevent it, I really doubt that she's not somehow at fault. I'm an insurance underwriter, and I've looked at thousands of driving records. I've never seen any driver with multiple accidents that didn't also have more tickets than accidents. Good drivers drive defensively and avoid accidents; that is why I don't really buy "not-at-fault" accidents unless there are extenuating circumstances.


I have been rear-ended three times in the same stupid car...definitely not my fault any time, but I do wonder if the dark gray car was invisible.  Once I was rear-ended at a red light, once I was rear-ended by a teen who was texting and not paying attention, and two weeks ago I was rear-ended in heavy traffic when I had to slam on my breaks to avoid hitting the car in front of me who decided to stop suddenly and turn with no blinker (don't really blame the guy who hit me here although he was obviously following too closely).  Anyway, none of these were my fault.  The car is totaled now which is sort of a relief because I swear it attracted accidents.

I was also in an accident several years back where a car pulled in front of me and stopped on the road as I was going straight down the highway.  I was blowing my horn like crazy and swerved to avoid T-boning her driver side.  Again, not my fault.  Sometimes, people are just unlucky.

I have only received one ticket in my life and it was for speeding about 8 miles over the speed limit. 

If I sound defensive, it's because I am still in pain from having a Dodge Ram slam into me going 40mph.

admitted speeding.
Sounds guilty as hell to me.


;)

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10269 on: September 01, 2015, 04:06:43 PM »
I have a friend who is totally crap at budgeting. One week she won't be able to buy groceries, then she'll get money and be going out to eat, buying new stuff for the house, buys expensive presents like a Chromebook for her 7 yo, etc. Her general MO with cars is basically to buy a crappy car using her tax refund, then at some point it either gets totaled (she's had awful luck with accidents, which probably is not her fault) or incurs a need for some repair that runs into multi hundreds and she can't afford it, so she scraps the whole thing and buys another car using next year's tax refund. When we bought our new car we gave her our old one because she was driving around in this death trap. It's lasted her a year, which is longer than any of her previous cars, but I wonder how long until it needs a $400 repair she can't afford.


Yeah, I'm going to have to sort of disagree with you there. (Sorry, I just really wanted to get in on the Office Space quotes.)

Anyway, unless every single accident is something where it came out of nowhere with no way for her to prevent it, I really doubt that she's not somehow at fault. I'm an insurance underwriter, and I've looked at thousands of driving records. I've never seen any driver with multiple accidents that didn't also have more tickets than accidents. Good drivers drive defensively and avoid accidents; that is why I don't really buy "not-at-fault" accidents unless there are extenuating circumstances.


I have been rear-ended three times in the same stupid car...definitely not my fault any time, but I do wonder if the dark gray car was invisible.  Once I was rear-ended at a red light, once I was rear-ended by a teen who was texting and not paying attention, and two weeks ago I was rear-ended in heavy traffic when I had to slam on my breaks to avoid hitting the car in front of me who decided to stop suddenly and turn with no blinker (don't really blame the guy who hit me here although he was obviously following too closely).  Anyway, none of these were my fault.  The car is totaled now which is sort of a relief because I swear it attracted accidents.

I was also in an accident several years back where a car pulled in front of me and stopped on the road as I was going straight down the highway.  I was blowing my horn like crazy and swerved to avoid T-boning her driver side.  Again, not my fault.  Sometimes, people are just unlucky.

I have only received one ticket in my life and it was for speeding about 8 miles over the speed limit. 

If I sound defensive, it's because I am still in pain from having a Dodge Ram slam into me going 40mph.

admitted speeding.
Sounds guilty as hell to me.


;)

She/He kinda walked into that one...

cloudsail

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10270 on: September 01, 2015, 04:31:09 PM »
I've been rear-ended four times, although only once was serious enough to require repairs to the car.  By the fourth time I was actually starting to wonder if there was something wrong with the way I drive.  But honestly none of those accidents happened because I stopped suddenly, or was stopped where I shouldn't be, etc.  The one time where serious damage was done, I was slowing to a stop along with three or four cars in front of me, because there was a car in front turning left.  The lady who hit me totally wasn't paying attention to what was happening on the road.  Another time I was stopped at an on ramp and got rear-ended by a student driver who was originally stopped behind me.  She said she meant to hit the brake but pressed the gas pedal instead :(

crispy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10271 on: September 01, 2015, 05:02:00 PM »
I have a friend who is totally crap at budgeting. One week she won't be able to buy groceries, then she'll get money and be going out to eat, buying new stuff for the house, buys expensive presents like a Chromebook for her 7 yo, etc. Her general MO with cars is basically to buy a crappy car using her tax refund, then at some point it either gets totaled (she's had awful luck with accidents, which probably is not her fault) or incurs a need for some repair that runs into multi hundreds and she can't afford it, so she scraps the whole thing and buys another car using next year's tax refund. When we bought our new car we gave her our old one because she was driving around in this death trap. It's lasted her a year, which is longer than any of her previous cars, but I wonder how long until it needs a $400 repair she can't afford.


Yeah, I'm going to have to sort of disagree with you there. (Sorry, I just really wanted to get in on the Office Space quotes.)

Anyway, unless every single accident is something where it came out of nowhere with no way for her to prevent it, I really doubt that she's not somehow at fault. I'm an insurance underwriter, and I've looked at thousands of driving records. I've never seen any driver with multiple accidents that didn't also have more tickets than accidents. Good drivers drive defensively and avoid accidents; that is why I don't really buy "not-at-fault" accidents unless there are extenuating circumstances.


I have been rear-ended three times in the same stupid car...definitely not my fault any time, but I do wonder if the dark gray car was invisible.  Once I was rear-ended at a red light, once I was rear-ended by a teen who was texting and not paying attention, and two weeks ago I was rear-ended in heavy traffic when I had to slam on my breaks to avoid hitting the car in front of me who decided to stop suddenly and turn with no blinker (don't really blame the guy who hit me here although he was obviously following too closely).  Anyway, none of these were my fault.  The car is totaled now which is sort of a relief because I swear it attracted accidents.

I was also in an accident several years back where a car pulled in front of me and stopped on the road as I was going straight down the highway.  I was blowing my horn like crazy and swerved to avoid T-boning her driver side.  Again, not my fault.  Sometimes, people are just unlucky.

I have only received one ticket in my life and it was for speeding about 8 miles over the speed limit. 

If I sound defensive, it's because I am still in pain from having a Dodge Ram slam into me going 40mph.

admitted speeding.
Sounds guilty as hell to me.


;)

She/He kinda walked into that one...

Eh, I figured one ticket in 24 years of driving is pretty good....

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10272 on: September 01, 2015, 05:03:26 PM »
Wow, I'm surprised at how offended people are getting over this.  Do you not agree that some people are better than others at avoiding accidents that wouldn't have been their fault?  No one's saying there's no such thing as a no-fault accident.

When you're in an accident that has been determined to be someone else's fault, it's a little perverse to blame the victim.  Saying that you could have avoided the accident is no different than blaming a rape victim for clothing worn.  Some people may be better at avoiding accidents that weren't their fault.  Some people are better at not getting raped.  Fuck blaming the victim.  If someone's following the rules of the road and is hit by another's screw up, let's not second guess what extra things that the person who was hit should have done.  That's bullshit.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10273 on: September 01, 2015, 05:12:54 PM »
Wow, I'm surprised at how offended people are getting over this.  Do you not agree that some people are better than others at avoiding accidents that wouldn't have been their fault?  No one's saying there's no such thing as a no-fault accident.

When you're in an accident that has been determined to be someone else's fault, it's a little perverse to blame the victim.  Saying that you could have avoided the accident is no different than blaming a rape victim for clothing worn.  Some people may be better at avoiding accidents that weren't their fault.  Some people are better at not getting raped.  Fuck blaming the victim.  If someone's following the rules of the road and is hit by another's screw up, let's not second guess what extra things that the person who was hit should have done.  That's bullshit.

That's a fucked up analogy.  I could say a lot about why but continuing with it would be disgusting and insulting.

If someone repeatedly gets in accidents that aren't their fault, which does seem to happen to some people a lot, but not to others, it would be fair to say they should probably get better at defensive driving.  That's what defensive driving is: avoiding accidents that aren't your fault.  Are you saying everyone on the road is equally good at this?  And that some people aren't exceptionally good and other exceptionally bad, just like anything else in life?

As a motorcyclist, if I accepted 'wasn't my fault, therefor there is nothing I can do/could have done', I would be dead already, several times over.

Eric

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10274 on: September 01, 2015, 05:21:08 PM »
Don't worry everyone.  I believe that you're all in the 99th percentile of skilled drivers and that not a single one of you could possibly be better.  No accidents can ever be avoided and all of your anecdotes prove this way better than the thoughts of an actual insurance adjuster.  Excellent use of the Anti-MMM sub-forum by the way!

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10275 on: September 01, 2015, 06:46:02 PM »
Wow, I'm surprised at how offended people are getting over this.  Do you not agree that some people are better than others at avoiding accidents that wouldn't have been their fault?  No one's saying there's no such thing as a no-fault accident.

When you're in an accident that has been determined to be someone else's fault, it's a little perverse to blame the victim.  Saying that you could have avoided the accident is no different than blaming a rape victim for clothing worn.  Some people may be better at avoiding accidents that weren't their fault.  Some people are better at not getting raped.  Fuck blaming the victim.  If someone's following the rules of the road and is hit by another's screw up, let's not second guess what extra things that the person who was hit should have done.  That's bullshit.

That's a fucked up analogy.  I could say a lot about why but continuing with it would be disgusting and insulting.

If someone repeatedly gets in accidents that aren't their fault, which does seem to happen to some people a lot, but not to others, it would be fair to say they should probably get better at defensive driving.  That's what defensive driving is: avoiding accidents that aren't your fault.  Are you saying everyone on the road is equally good at this?  And that some people aren't exceptionally good and other exceptionally bad, just like anything else in life?

As a motorcyclist, if I accepted 'wasn't my fault, therefor there is nothing I can do/could have done', I would be dead already, several times over.

Why did that woman walk down the dark alley?  Why did she wear a short skirt?  Why did she leave her house?  That's defensive living.  It's all the same reasoning.  And it's bullshit.  You're trying to place the blame on the victim, while ignoring the actions of the person at fault.

As a motorcyclist, I hope you don't ever have a situation where there's nothing you can do or could have done and you end up hit/badly hurt.  It would especially suck if you then have to read someone online telling you how simple it would have been to avoid the accident that they know nothing about.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10276 on: September 01, 2015, 07:02:46 PM »
Wow, I'm surprised at how offended people are getting over this.  Do you not agree that some people are better than others at avoiding accidents that wouldn't have been their fault?  No one's saying there's no such thing as a no-fault accident.

When you're in an accident that has been determined to be someone else's fault, it's a little perverse to blame the victim.  Saying that you could have avoided the accident is no different than blaming a rape victim for clothing worn.  Some people may be better at avoiding accidents that weren't their fault.  Some people are better at not getting raped.  Fuck blaming the victim.  If someone's following the rules of the road and is hit by another's screw up, let's not second guess what extra things that the person who was hit should have done.  That's bullshit.

That's a fucked up analogy.  I could say a lot about why but continuing with it would be disgusting and insulting.

If someone repeatedly gets in accidents that aren't their fault, which does seem to happen to some people a lot, but not to others, it would be fair to say they should probably get better at defensive driving.  That's what defensive driving is: avoiding accidents that aren't your fault.  Are you saying everyone on the road is equally good at this?  And that some people aren't exceptionally good and other exceptionally bad, just like anything else in life?

As a motorcyclist, if I accepted 'wasn't my fault, therefor there is nothing I can do/could have done', I would be dead already, several times over.

Why did that woman walk down the dark alley?  Why did she wear a short skirt?  Why did she leave her house?  That's defensive living.  It's all the same reasoning.  And it's bullshit.  You're trying to place the blame on the victim, while ignoring the actions of the person at fault.

As a motorcyclist, I hope you don't ever have a situation where there's nothing you can do or could have done and you end up hit/badly hurt.  It would especially suck if you then have to read someone online telling you how simple it would have been to avoid the accident that they know nothing about.

It's not victim blaming to point out that there is a difference between being morally in the right and getting what you want.  If I am in 10 accidents that are not my fault, I am right to be outraged.   On the other hand, I'd prefer not get into any accidents than to get into accidents and be outraged.  People who practice good defensive driving will likely lead happier lives since they won't have to deal with the hassle of other people's mistakes.

Middlesbrough

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10277 on: September 01, 2015, 08:37:39 PM »
Don't worry everyone.  I believe that you're all in the 99th percentile of skilled drivers and that not a single one of you could possibly be better.  No accidents can ever be avoided and all of your anecdotes prove this way better than the thoughts of an actual insurance adjuster.  Excellent use of the Anti-MMM sub-forum by the way!
Fine Eric! I got into a wreck when i wasn't looking in front of me while trying to find a building I didn't know it's specific location of. The light turned red and even though I was driving 10 mph under the speed limit it was too late. Lame sauce.

Merrie

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10278 on: September 01, 2015, 09:01:34 PM »
I rear-ended somebody when flipping through music on my iPod and not paying as much attention to the road as I should have. I recall they were either driving really slow or stopped in the middle of the road for no reason. But still my fault. Maybe that's why my car insurance company hates me so much. I called yesterday to cancel my policy after 10 years with them and they were just like "oh, okay".

Then I got rear-ended while stopped at a traffic light. Lesson there: don't go to work. I was leaving work when it happened, at 10:00 at night.

NoraLenderbee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10279 on: September 01, 2015, 09:48:44 PM »
Wow, I'm surprised at how offended people are getting over this.  Do you not agree that some people are better than others at avoiding accidents that wouldn't have been their fault?  No one's saying there's no such thing as a no-fault accident.

When you're in an accident that has been determined to be someone else's fault, it's a little perverse to blame the victim.  Saying that you could have avoided the accident is no different than blaming a rape victim for clothing worn.  Some people may be better at avoiding accidents that weren't their fault.  Some people are better at not getting raped.  Fuck blaming the victim.  If someone's following the rules of the road and is hit by another's screw up, let's not second guess what extra things that the person who was hit should have done.  That's bullshit.

That's a fucked up analogy.  I could say a lot about why but continuing with it would be disgusting and insulting.

If someone repeatedly gets in accidents that aren't their fault, which does seem to happen to some people a lot, but not to others, it would be fair to say they should probably get better at defensive driving.  That's what defensive driving is: avoiding accidents that aren't your fault.  Are you saying everyone on the road is equally good at this?  And that some people aren't exceptionally good and other exceptionally bad, just like anything else in life?

As a motorcyclist, if I accepted 'wasn't my fault, therefor there is nothing I can do/could have done', I would be dead already, several times over.

Why did that woman walk down the dark alley?  Why did she wear a short skirt?  Why did she leave her house?  That's defensive living.  It's all the same reasoning.  And it's bullshit.  You're trying to place the blame on the victim, while ignoring the actions of the person at fault.


It's a fucked up analogy because car accidents aren't caused intentionally. The driver at fault may have been careless and reckless and even done illegal things, but they generally did not intend to hurt anyone. In a rape, one person very intentionally and deliberately inflicts harm on someone else, for their own gratification.

There's also a *slight* difference in degree between the pain of a minor car wreck and the pain of sexual assault.

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10280 on: September 01, 2015, 10:44:24 PM »
Oh boy. I leave work and all of a sudden there are dozens of replies to my post? I'll try to do the best I can.

First off, as iowajes and others have pointed out, I shouldn't have said "extenuating circumstances". That makes it sound rare, when what I meant was that it's very frequent (or appears that way to me) to see a driver determined to be "not-at-fault" when in fact they could have prevented the accident. I'm not saying that no-way-could-I-have-prevented-that accidents don't happen. Goodness no, that happened to my car with my kids in it last week. But a driver with a string of accidents and somehow none of them were her fault? Smells off to me.

To everyone who has been in accidents where you weren't at fault, I understand. Your experience tells you this happens all the time. If you've been in 3 accidents in your life and 2 were in no way preventable, it's a perfectly logical conclusion to say that most accidents are in no way preventable by the not-at-fault person. My experience in looking at MVRs and auto claims tells me something different, and I think the extra data helps.

I think that's pretty cut and dry. Now, if you have gotten hit several times while being stopped at a red light, maybe there's some underlying issue? I think that's what they were trying to get at, not insinuating that your accident was in any way your fault.
eyePod, that's exactly what I meant.

Yeah, both those cases are definitely cases of no-fault. What I think the other person meant is that while the other party has a significant blame, statistically it likely is the case that people that are in multiple no-fault accidents might have been able to prevent them. I hate the fact but it is likely true.
MgoSam, thanks for getting me. Not to be super pedantic and insurancy, but "no-fault" is a very commonly misunderstood term. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fault_insurance. I'm sorry, I'm done being an insurance nerd now.

Good drivers avoid accidents... lol, fuck that.  If you "avoid" an accident and have your own accident then who is at fault?

I avoided an accident and got accused of causing the accident by the police. I don't ever avoid that shit anymore.

I used to have a commute that had a merge situation where every doucebag thought they'd save hours of their day by being one car ahead so there was constantly close calls. I stopped avoiding them.

HairyUpperLip, you're welcome to do this, but personally, I'd rather be alive than right any day.

mlejw6, thank you. That's a great driving lesson.

mm1970 and dragoncar, thanks for more examples of the importance of aware driving and I'm glad everyone is OK.

MrMoogle, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fault_insurance. (I'm sorry. I know I promised no more insurance nerdery.)

When you're in an accident that has been determined to be someone else's fault, it's a little perverse to blame the victim.  Saying that you could have avoided the accident is no different than blaming a rape victim for clothing worn.  Some people may be better at avoiding accidents that weren't their fault.  Some people are better at not getting raped.  Fuck blaming the victim.  If someone's following the rules of the road and is hit by another's screw up, let's not second guess what extra things that the person who was hit should have done.  That's bullshit.
Comparing a car accident to rape is completely uncalled for. Rape is not an accident. It's an intentional act of violence against a victim. Car crashes that are intentional are similar acts of violence, but that's not what we're talking about. (Which I wrote before reading NoraLenderbee put it better than I could.)

gimp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10281 on: September 01, 2015, 11:38:25 PM »
Most people who have been in many accidents are probably doing something wrong.

But then shit happens, and you get rear-ended when you're fully stopped at red lights. And then shit happens like four more times, and people are wondering wtf.

So it goes.

There are many situations where, despite the accident victim being legally not at fault, they could have saved the situation. They're still not at fault, but they still contributed to the mistake. Most two-car accidents require a mistake to be made by both drivers. Yet every day, you see someone doing something wrong, and another person compensating, and preventing it from happening. Once in a great many miles, both drivers (who statistically probably make one mistake every couple hundred miles) both screw up at the same time and bad things happen.

I just hope to continue my streak of 0 accidents. Granted, it's only been ~80k miles, and a lot of that during very easy driving conditions (on roads where most accidents occur due to drinking or weather.) I hope the next 800k is just as good.

tyort1

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10282 on: September 02, 2015, 12:36:43 AM »
What the hell are you people doing driving cars?  This is MMM after all!

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10283 on: September 02, 2015, 05:40:30 AM »
Wow, I'm surprised at how offended people are getting over this.  Do you not agree that some people are better than others at avoiding accidents that wouldn't have been their fault?  No one's saying there's no such thing as a no-fault accident.

When you're in an accident that has been determined to be someone else's fault, it's a little perverse to blame the victim.  Saying that you could have avoided the accident is no different than blaming a rape victim for clothing worn.  Some people may be better at avoiding accidents that weren't their fault.  Some people are better at not getting raped.  Fuck blaming the victim.  If someone's following the rules of the road and is hit by another's screw up, let's not second guess what extra things that the person who was hit should have done.  That's bullshit.

That's a fucked up analogy.  I could say a lot about why but continuing with it would be disgusting and insulting.

If someone repeatedly gets in accidents that aren't their fault, which does seem to happen to some people a lot, but not to others, it would be fair to say they should probably get better at defensive driving.  That's what defensive driving is: avoiding accidents that aren't your fault.  Are you saying everyone on the road is equally good at this?  And that some people aren't exceptionally good and other exceptionally bad, just like anything else in life?

As a motorcyclist, if I accepted 'wasn't my fault, therefor there is nothing I can do/could have done', I would be dead already, several times over.

Why did that woman walk down the dark alley?  Why did she wear a short skirt?  Why did she leave her house?  That's defensive living.  It's all the same reasoning.  And it's bullshit.  You're trying to place the blame on the victim, while ignoring the actions of the person at fault.


It's a fucked up analogy because car accidents aren't caused intentionally. The driver at fault may have been careless and reckless and even done illegal things, but they generally did not intend to hurt anyone. In a rape, one person very intentionally and deliberately inflicts harm on someone else, for their own gratification.

There's also a *slight* difference in degree between the pain of a minor car wreck and the pain of sexual assault.

Agreed 100%.  A car accident is different than rape.  There's a difference of intent on the aggressor, and obviously the assault is going to leave a whole different (worse) type of damage.  My point was that the tactic of second guessing what the victim should have done, and blaming the victim is the same in both cases.  If you find this tactic disgusting when discussing a rape, you should find it the same when discussing a car accident.

A car 'accident' isn't an accident.  That's quite a misnomer.  It's always brought about by a mistake made by one or both of the drivers involved.  They are all caused intentionally.  For whatever reason, one driver decides not to leave safe following distance, not to look ahead, not to signal that turn, not to wait until it's safe to do something, etc.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 05:44:42 AM by GuitarStv »

jordanread

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10284 on: September 02, 2015, 06:29:11 AM »
[...]
A car 'accident' isn't an accident.  That's quite a misnomer.  It's always brought about by a mistake made by one or both of the drivers involved.  [...]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puK5CwThaq4 An accident implies there is no one to blame. Traffic Collision.

Merrie

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10285 on: September 02, 2015, 06:30:08 AM »
Oh boy. I leave work and all of a sudden there are dozens of replies to my post? I'll try to do the best I can.

First off, as iowajes and others have pointed out, I shouldn't have said "extenuating circumstances". That makes it sound rare, when what I meant was that it's very frequent (or appears that way to me) to see a driver determined to be "not-at-fault" when in fact they could have prevented the accident. I'm not saying that no-way-could-I-have-prevented-that accidents don't happen. Goodness no, that happened to my car with my kids in it last week. But a driver with a string of accidents and somehow none of them were her fault? Smells off to me.

My example started this whole tangent. My friend is actually probably not a very good example. I don't know how good of a defensive driver she is. I haven't ridden with her much. I know she got hit twice by other people in the space of about 2 years, one time she was either stopped or going really slowly and the other driver told her they were uninsured and left the scene, and both times it totaled her car. Considering in both cases she was driving cars she'd bought for somewhere in the 2k-4k range, it wouldn't have taken much body damage to total the car. Now whether there was something she could have done to avoid either accident, I don't know. I personally have been hit while stopped at a light a couple of times and a couple accidents where I was definitely a bozo who was at fault. Fortunately none of these rose above the level of a fender-bender.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10286 on: September 02, 2015, 09:12:36 AM »
Not at work, but I don't want to make a whole thread for a tale so short.

Yesterday I discovered that my Dad (in Australia) imports his kitchen sponges from the USA, because they "won't scratch glass".

Thoughts:
1. Perfectly good non-scratch sponges and scourers are available in the shop down the road for 20% the cost.
2. My parents don't cook anything beyond frozen bake'n'serve or nuke'n'serve.
3. They own one set of 'nice glasses' which are used at Christmas and maybe Easter.
4. Even when they use their nice glasses, they don't get anything on them that requires a scourer to get off.
5. They use these imported sponges to clean all their dishes, year-round.

WHY!?!?!?!?!?

Phenix

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10287 on: September 02, 2015, 09:41:37 AM »
I worked for a Fortune 500 company a few years ago.  My boss was 71 years old at the time, had 2 mortgages and was supporting both of his middle-age daughters (both divorced SAHMs).  This is a guy who was making well over $100k for at least a decade in a LCOL area.  Our jobs moved from Arizona to Ohio, so he moved to OH while his wife and daughters stayed in AZ.  His wife is somewhat disabled, so he hired a caretaker for his wife even though his two daughters (both SAHM) lived nearby.  He was obese, diabetic, smoked a pack a day (he cut back from 2 packs a day when he relocated to OH), and paid for a nutrisystem food plan.  He also never missed an Alabama football game in the 3 years I worked there.  He would fly to every single game.
I talked to a one of my old co-workers yesterday, and everything is still the same.  He convinced the company to let him work from Arizona when his wife became completely disabled and required help around the clock.  I wouldn't want his job.  High stress, constantly getting yelled at by upper management, and in return yelling at your employees.  My final straw was when he threatened to fire the whole finance team (there were 4 of us under him) because of a oversight that ended up being nothing more than a misunderstanding.  He was not a happy person to work around.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10288 on: September 02, 2015, 09:54:32 AM »
Comparing a car accident to rape is completely uncalled for. Rape is not an accident. It's an intentional act of violence against a victim. Car crashes that are intentional are similar acts of violence, but that's not what we're talking about. (Which I wrote before reading NoraLenderbee put it better than I could.)

Agreed. Rape is more comparable to using a vehicle to intentionally cause harm. Vehicular manslaughter, for example. I don't think anyone would (or should) blame the victim in those cases.

I have been involved in very few collisions, but a few years ago my car was involved in 3 in a very short period (maybe 18-24 months). Two of those times my car was parked and no one was in the driver's seat. The third time was in icy conditions and I was the middle car in a 3 car collision. I was found not at fault, but absolutely there are things I could have done to help prevent the collision.

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10289 on: September 02, 2015, 10:06:54 AM »
Comparing a car accident to rape is completely uncalled for. Rape is not an accident. It's an intentional act of violence against a victim. Car crashes that are intentional are similar acts of violence, but that's not what we're talking about. (Which I wrote before reading NoraLenderbee put it better than I could.)

Agreed. Rape is more comparable to using a vehicle to intentionally cause harm. Vehicular manslaughter, for example. I don't think anyone would (or should) blame the victim in those cases.

Agreed.  Except for the part where you imply that blaming the victim is OK based on what the person responsible for the action happens to intend.  Huh?  Could you elaborate on that a bit?

Cookie78

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10290 on: September 02, 2015, 10:18:05 AM »
Comparing a car accident to rape is completely uncalled for. Rape is not an accident. It's an intentional act of violence against a victim. Car crashes that are intentional are similar acts of violence, but that's not what we're talking about. (Which I wrote before reading NoraLenderbee put it better than I could.)

Agreed. Rape is more comparable to using a vehicle to intentionally cause harm. Vehicular manslaughter, for example. I don't think anyone would (or should) blame the victim in those cases.

Agreed.  Except for the part where you imply that blaming the victim is OK based on what the person responsible for the action happens to intend.  Huh?  Could you elaborate on that a bit?

I implied no such thing. Just that your comparison to rape was uncalled for.

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10291 on: September 02, 2015, 10:23:53 AM »
Comparing a car accident to rape is completely uncalled for. Rape is not an accident. It's an intentional act of violence against a victim. Car crashes that are intentional are similar acts of violence, but that's not what we're talking about. (Which I wrote before reading NoraLenderbee put it better than I could.)

Agreed. Rape is more comparable to using a vehicle to intentionally cause harm. Vehicular manslaughter, for example. I don't think anyone would (or should) blame the victim in those cases.

Agreed.  Except for the part where you imply that blaming the victim is OK based on what the person responsible for the action happens to intend.  Huh?  Could you elaborate on that a bit?

I implied no such thing. Just that your comparison to rape was uncalled for.

I didn't say that rape and car accidents are the same thing, the only comparison made was that blaming the victim isn't OK.  That's the opposite what people who are blaming the faultless person in a car accident are implying.

Cookie78

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10292 on: September 02, 2015, 10:37:54 AM »
Comparing a car accident to rape is completely uncalled for. Rape is not an accident. It's an intentional act of violence against a victim. Car crashes that are intentional are similar acts of violence, but that's not what we're talking about. (Which I wrote before reading NoraLenderbee put it better than I could.)

Agreed. Rape is more comparable to using a vehicle to intentionally cause harm. Vehicular manslaughter, for example. I don't think anyone would (or should) blame the victim in those cases.

Agreed.  Except for the part where you imply that blaming the victim is OK based on what the person responsible for the action happens to intend.  Huh?  Could you elaborate on that a bit?

I implied no such thing. Just that your comparison to rape was uncalled for.

I didn't say that rape and car accidents are the same thing, the only comparison made was that blaming the victim isn't OK.  That's the opposite what people who are blaming the faultless person in a car accident are implying.

I think there is a big difference between "blaming the victim" in a car accident and discussing how the accident could have been avoided by the victim. It's been helpful for me personally to assess what I could have done even if I was not at fault.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10293 on: September 02, 2015, 10:38:47 AM »
This thread has turned into a real downer. I come here to mock your ridiculous coworkers. Post more of that for my entertainment!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10294 on: September 02, 2015, 10:47:23 AM »
This thread has turned into a real downer. I come here to mock your ridiculous coworkers. Post more of that for my entertainment!

Sorry! I'm done.

I have pretty awesome coworkers who are frugal and talk about retirements and pensions, though they do get excited about new shoe stores. However, I was talking with a friend the other day who was complaining that her friend was stingy. Her stingy friend actually saves up money to buy things like furniture instead of using the furniture store payment plans. *gasp* Of course I laughed and told her I agreed with her friend. AND I almost always buy used things and have never actually bought furniture from a furniture store.


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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10295 on: September 02, 2015, 11:00:11 AM »
My co-workers are generally smart with their money and pretty frugal.  However we recently had a complete change in our HR system and part of the reason was to provide us with better benefits.  We don't have the option to contribute to a 401(k) plan currently so I was obviously excited.

Well my excitement quickly soured.  No one else seems to care nearly as much about the 401(k) as I do.  Everything else is setup but every time I ask about 401(k) HR just says "next year".  It seems to be the last thing they want to take care of and just an after thought.  And I can't really blame them since almost none of my co-workers are asking about it.  I was so hopeful that I would be able to contribute this year!

They also got rid of the high deductible health plan option, so we can't save to an HSA.  When I asked about this, it seems like the people in HR just don't like them, so they decided that everyone else probably doesn't like them either.  They also had no idea that the money in an HSA can be invested.  Argh!!

Oh, and the PPO plan is also $20 more per month than the old one.  It has a slightly lower deductible and per year max, I think, but that's about it.

How is this better????

Sorry just had to get that off my chest :(

Travis

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10296 on: September 02, 2015, 12:01:47 PM »
[...]
A car 'accident' isn't an accident.  That's quite a misnomer.  It's always brought about by a mistake made by one or both of the drivers involved.  They are all caused intentionally[...]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puK5CwThaq4 An accident implies there is no one to blame. Traffic Collision.

Nitpicking a bit, but I would say the negligent acts contributing to the collision were intentional. The collision itself was not (unless we're talking about some kind of attempted murder charge).  In the military we stopped calling the pulling of the trigger when you weren't supposed to an accidental discharge and instead call them negligent discharges since you have to pull the trigger to do it.  You may not have intended to pull the trigger, but you consciously put your finger on it with the safety off when you weren't supposed to.

Making Cookies

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10297 on: September 02, 2015, 12:28:03 PM »
A coworker just ordered a $100,000 Porsche Cayenne. The worst part? He already owns an Audi S4. He won't be trading that in.

$160,000 worth of cars on about $100,000 salary.

I jokingly asked him if he was using it to haul around the kids (he has none). His response: we bought an SUV (because his girlfriend wanted him to) so they could haul mulch, furniture, and things like that. When I asked incredulously if he thought he'd ever actually put something so dirty into his Porsche, he shrugged sheepishly and said they make liners for the cargo areas so you don't get your seats dirty. All the delivery fees in the world couldn't cost this much.

A PORSCHE SUV FOR HAULING MULCH AND FURNITURE.

Coworker told me of a story where another coworker/friend bought a $70K l-o-n-g pickup truck a month ago. Asked him how he likes it and the owner made a face and replied "I hate it". Its a pain to drive, a pain to park and a pain to refuel".

When asked why he bought it in the first place - he replied b/c his wife encouraged him to buy it. He replaced a short wheel base pickup of some sort that was paid off.

Now his new truck is worth how many thousand less a month later and he has buyer's remorse. 

Making Cookies

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10298 on: September 02, 2015, 01:24:42 PM »
Whelp... We packed the trailer yesterday and just hooked it up. Planning on leaving in about 8 hours. Arriving after noon.

I find about 5 hours of dark-driving gets me enough distance that the kids are OK for the remaining drive. We'll stop around 09:00 for breakfast and a stretch, then carry on.
Why aren't you sharing this in Share Your Badassity?
(I did shit like that when I was 20 or so... I probably could now if I didn't stay so tired. Reasons why FIRE matters)

Used to do that on military leave - work all day and drive all night so I was back home at dawn. I stopped doing that eventually.

One night there was the tandem tractor trailer wandering all over the road (me passing him at max mph in a CR-X - a tiny car. i wanted to minimize time beside him).

One night there were the storms and tornados that I had zero awareness of b/c I was listening to tapes and CDs instead of the radio. Liked the empty roads though. Rains were brief and scattered.

Then there was the night I could not recall the last 30-40 miles including climbing a steep mtn road where my family lived...

These days we encourage the kids to stay up all night long if they want  (while we sleep) and we'll set out for the big vacation drive at 5AM to miss some of the summer heat. Hopefully we'll arrive at the destination when the kids get caught up on their sleep. They play, I nap. My wife babysits as necessary.

As for beaches: I love going to the beach. I spent six years living next to the oceans when I was in the Navy and during that time I went to the beach maybe 3-4 times. Yeah I know, I was "doing it all wrong". Now we have to drive most of a day to get to a beach.

Making Cookies

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10299 on: September 02, 2015, 01:54:42 PM »
This thread has turned into a real downer. I come here to mock your ridiculous coworkers. Post more of that for my entertainment!

Sorry! I'm done.

I have pretty awesome coworkers who are frugal and talk about retirements and pensions, though they do get excited about new shoe stores. However, I was talking with a friend the other day who was complaining that her friend was stingy. Her stingy friend actually saves up money to buy things like furniture instead of using the furniture store payment plans. *gasp* Of course I laughed and told her I agreed with her friend. AND I almost always buy used things and have never actually bought furniture from a furniture store.

Drove past a furniture store here today and saw a sign that said 8 years interest free!!!

I didn't know pressboard furniture would last 8 years... ;) Their furniture is okay - we have some. Just teasing about their sign. Definitely not heirloom quality stuff but it's lasted a decade. Didn't want to spend big money on great furniture while we had small kids in the house. Everybody is past that so we'll buy something nicer next time. Will certainly pay with cash and not necessarily from there. ;)