Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8087447 times)

Metric Mouse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16250 on: December 22, 2016, 05:07:14 AM »
We had a huge thread(part) on this once, and all agreed that 4WD is useless. If you drive summer tires. And 2 motorised wheels with winter tires is way better then 4WD with summer tires. And if a 2 wheel car with winter tires is "skating" then 4WD dont have any grip too.

I believe if the thread found that 4wd was useless it did not come to the correct conclusion. There are certainly situations that 4wd is not the answer to, and it's not always worth the cost upgrade, but there are real-world driving applications where a vehicle with more ground clearance and four powered wheels is quite superior to a 2wd car.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16251 on: December 22, 2016, 05:43:20 AM »
Audit girl at my work a few years ago... not quite a see through dress but she was very very pretty.

One of the women I worked with (older, very smart tax expert) asked me "Martin... whats going on? I keep seeing you looking across the room".

I pointed at J---

"I can't get any work done...she's...distracting!"

:) :) :)

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16252 on: December 22, 2016, 06:20:38 AM »
We had a huge thread(part) on this once, and all agreed that 4WD is useless. If you drive summer tires. And 2 motorised wheels with winter tires is way better then 4WD with summer tires. And if a 2 wheel car with winter tires is "skating" then 4WD dont have any grip too.

I believe if the thread found that 4wd was useless it did not come to the correct conclusion. There are certainly situations that 4wd is not the answer to, and it's not always worth the cost upgrade, but there are real-world driving applications where a vehicle with more ground clearance and four powered wheels is quite superior to a 2wd car.
Okay, I reword this:
4WD in summer tires is useless compared to 2WD with winter tires. 4WD with winter tires is still better then 2WD with winter tires. But not much based on "normal" climates (not 6 month canadian winter with minimum 20cm snow on every street). That said, I have plowed through 20cm snow with a small car and only front drive - you just need the right tires. Most important safety part except the brakes.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16253 on: December 22, 2016, 07:26:08 AM »
As someone who works in an office filled with 18-35 year old nerds, I have a really hard time picturing how anything would get done if we suddenly had women walking around the place in leggings.

It would probably trigger a company-wide alert by the end of the day.

Lularoe is a "modest" company though. So all the tops are generally long enough to cover the butt.

Of course, you probably wouldn't get anything done because you'd be sniggering at the ridiculous patterns women are wearing and calling "business appropriate".

We have a few women at my office who wear LLR, but we have a very very casual office (I'm in jeans and a hoodie right now). These designs look like things I would have thought were amazing when I was 8.




GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16254 on: December 22, 2016, 07:27:18 AM »
We had a huge thread(part) on this once, and all agreed that 4WD is useless. If you drive summer tires. And 2 motorised wheels with winter tires is way better then 4WD with summer tires. And if a 2 wheel car with winter tires is "skating" then 4WD dont have any grip too.

I believe if the thread found that 4wd was useless it did not come to the correct conclusion. There are certainly situations that 4wd is not the answer to, and it's not always worth the cost upgrade, but there are real-world driving applications where a vehicle with more ground clearance and four powered wheels is quite superior to a 2wd car.
Okay, I reword this:
4WD in summer tires is useless compared to 2WD with winter tires. 4WD with winter tires is still better then 2WD with winter tires. But not much based on "normal" climates (not 6 month canadian winter with minimum 20cm snow on every street). That said, I have plowed through 20cm snow with a small car and only front drive - you just need the right tires. Most important safety part except the brakes.

Yep, this is exactly right.  AWD with all-seasons handles far worse than a 2 wheel drive car with snow tires in any winter situation you're ever likely to find yourself in.  I spent the first twenty years of my life deep in Northern Ontario, I've had an awful lot of experience driving in winter weather.
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mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16255 on: December 22, 2016, 07:39:32 AM »
We had a huge thread(part) on this once, and all agreed that 4WD is useless. If you drive summer tires. And 2 motorised wheels with winter tires is way better then 4WD with summer tires. And if a 2 wheel car with winter tires is "skating" then 4WD dont have any grip too.

I believe if the thread found that 4wd was useless it did not come to the correct conclusion. There are certainly situations that 4wd is not the answer to, and it's not always worth the cost upgrade, but there are real-world driving applications where a vehicle with more ground clearance and four powered wheels is quite superior to a 2wd car.
Okay, I reword this:
4WD in summer tires is useless compared to 2WD with winter tires. 4WD with winter tires is still better then 2WD with winter tires. But not much based on "normal" climates (not 6 month canadian winter with minimum 20cm snow on every street). That said, I have plowed through 20cm snow with a small car and only front drive - you just need the right tires. Most important safety part except the brakes.

Yep, this is exactly right.  AWD with all-seasons handles far worse than a 2 wheel drive car with snow tires in any winter situation you're ever likely to find yourself in. 

Well that is quite the loaded statement. What kind of AWD are we talking about? The Honda version of the late 90's where it only comes into play if the front wheels slip? Or something like an Outback in which it is a real AWD system? Does 2WD mean RWD like a Miata or FWD like a SAAB?

I'd have taken my SAAB in all seasons over just about anything in snow tires. I'd take any AWD vehicle in all seasons over my Miata on snow tires--Hell, I'd say that on anything but ice the FWD Corolla with all seasons was better than the Miata on snow tires and an under-steer setup.

BTW, the SAAB in snows was unstoppable. The only thing I've drive that was better was a 4Runner in snows. But the SAAB in all seasons was good enough for 99% of what I saw--which is to say a very snowy area, the only time it got stopped was when the snow was 3 feet high.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16256 on: December 22, 2016, 08:53:29 AM »
Why don't you point them to a Subaru or CR-V or RAV4?

I don't think they sell those at the Lexus or Audi dealerships.  :)  My parents are Bogleheads, NOT Mustachians.
I know what you mean. I hang out at BH too!
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16257 on: December 22, 2016, 09:07:27 AM »
Despite Taylor Larrimore telling the BH faithful to buy a Toyota Corolla (or similar), they like their Euro Luxomobiles and fancy watches.
I love FWFinance, when the Crown Vic is the ride of choice.

BHers are a bunch of entitled prima donnas. Wanting their cake and eating it too. I think it is an older crowd, especially if you read their Personal Consumer Issues sub-forum. And their mods won't allow the F-word.
Fuck that! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsZwRirDOYQ
Definitely an older crowd. I try to go to both meetups- the median age for MMM is probably 28, and 48 for Bogleheads.

I actually like their very strict moderation, even though I wouldn't want it applied here.

kimmarg

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16258 on: December 22, 2016, 09:24:48 AM »
Out of nowhere my life has been infiltrated by the LuLaRoe MLM fad of the moment. I heard my first mention of it about two months ago at the office while eating lunch and now it's all over facebook and several of my colleagues are talking about it constantly. And apparently it's all they are wearing.

Highlights of the LuLaRoe conversations I've heard:

- This company specializes in leggings which are $25/pair! That is their most popular and least expensive item. Tops are $35. In case you are not familiar with leggings prices I recently bought a 6-pack of fleece lined leggings (ie the warmer thicker kind) for $30 on Amazon.
- These $25 leggings are apparently special because they are "extra" soft and made of a "special" fabric - they are 100% polyester.
- One co-worker spent $125 on leggings at a home party recently.
- A facebook friend recently pleaded for an intervention after buying 8 pairs of Halloween print leggings for her and her daughter
- Several co-workers have friends who have quit their jobs to sell LuLaRoe full time, they said the starting buy-in for a consultant is $5,000+ (that is 200 pairs of leggings at the retail price, so probably 400ish if they are getting wholesale price). One of these sellers renovated a room in her house to function as her showroom for parties.
- One co-worker accidentally hit the "claim" button on a consultant's online ordering page (you can buy online by "claiming" something they post or at a house party) and said "ok I guess I will buy them since I hit the button on accident" - what?

I hope for the sake of these people who have quit their jobs to buy and sell thousands of dollars worth of leggings that this fad lasts but I'm tired of hearing about it.

Also, I might be prematurely an old lady but I don't think wearing leggings as pants to the office is acceptable attire. Leggings under a dress, fine. Leggings to run errands or when not at work, do as you please. But I do not want to see your butt cheeks at the office.

YES! Luluroe. I've been bombarded with that myself. I bought a pair of black leggings at CVS for $5.99 during black friday. They actually were kind of free, because I used some previous Extra Care Bucks to buy them, then got the $5.99 back as extra care bucks. They are amazing btw.

The newest things I've been noticing are people I know selling this stuff called "Lipsense". If I understand correctly you get the first starter set for $60, then after you get that, each color is only $20.

I like lipstick, I wear it to work most days, $3.99-$5.99 for a tube that lasts maybe 6 months at CVS.

Am I the only person who thinks the LulaRoe stuff is ugly as all get out? Funky printed leggings on thick thighs is not a good look.

I was just given a pair for my birthday. They are in fact super soft and comfortable the ones I have are plain not print. I haven't worn them out of the house but I gotta say for a its-winter-stuck-inside-with-baby all day they're pretty nice. Plus stretchy lets you ignore the havent-quite-lost-the-baby-weight. That said I certainly don't need 8 pairs. one is plenty.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16259 on: December 22, 2016, 10:14:04 AM »
My neighbor who sells them says LLR is sending way fewer solids than they used to (you don't get to pick...)

I considered a dark teal pair (the hostess took all the black pairs before the party started); but they were too long on me - I've never been not one-size-fits-all.  They were soft though. So my pity purchase for that party was a "classic tee" which wasn't worth $35, but a pretty basic geometric print.  I've since avoided the parties.

Did your leggings get holes in them quickly? I've read that complaint a lot.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16260 on: December 22, 2016, 10:37:10 AM »
We had a huge thread(part) on this once, and all agreed that 4WD is useless. If you drive summer tires. And 2 motorised wheels with winter tires is way better then 4WD with summer tires. And if a 2 wheel car with winter tires is "skating" then 4WD dont have any grip too.

I believe if the thread found that 4wd was useless it did not come to the correct conclusion. There are certainly situations that 4wd is not the answer to, and it's not always worth the cost upgrade, but there are real-world driving applications where a vehicle with more ground clearance and four powered wheels is quite superior to a 2wd car.
Okay, I reword this:
4WD in summer tires is useless compared to 2WD with winter tires. 4WD with winter tires is still better then 2WD with winter tires. But not much based on "normal" climates (not 6 month canadian winter with minimum 20cm snow on every street). That said, I have plowed through 20cm snow with a small car and only front drive - you just need the right tires. Most important safety part except the brakes.

Yep, this is exactly right.  AWD with all-seasons handles far worse than a 2 wheel drive car with snow tires in any winter situation you're ever likely to find yourself in.  I spent the first twenty years of my life deep in Northern Ontario, I've had an awful lot of experience driving in winter weather.
As a teenager I remember getting our logging roads plowed and then taking our 2WD truck to the work site in winter. I also remember shoveling out 4WD trucks who got stuck then hopping back into our 2WD truck and complaining about the driver needing lessons. Typically the complaint was city slickers being too ignorant to drive to the road conditions cause that was generally the case. The same drivers were also the jackA$$es  who thought it was fun to mud bog down the trail in spring, guess who got to clean it up for the logging truck? The ruts created by the 4WD crowd were part of the cost of doing business, it sucks when people are ignorant and you need to pay to fix their mess.

It wasn't the truck that made the difference, it was the driver. I've always held a grudge against the 4WD crowd, precisely because it took money out of my pocket cleaning up their mess. If you need 4WD on a mud road what kind of shape are you leaving it in for the next driver? If its needed for off roading through snow roads do you expect others to save you when you get stuck? Every vehicle gets stuck if it hangs up in snow,  I had to shovel a semi truck out once and that's a lot of tires.

Usually the situations they describe as requiring 4WD end up passing costs onto others; we rescued several people from being left in the forest in -20 weather and spent considerable money and time after they had a fun afternoon.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16261 on: December 22, 2016, 10:39:06 AM »
Does 2WD mean RWD like a Miata or FWD like a SAAB?

Not going to speak for everyone, but I don't think anyone would the benefits of RWD in snow.  When I hear 2WD I assume FWD.

Cassie

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16262 on: December 22, 2016, 10:43:32 AM »
We always had a potluck at lunch with everyone either bringing something or paying $3.00

druth

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16263 on: December 22, 2016, 11:09:50 AM »
Why don't you point them to a Subaru or CR-V or RAV4?

I don't think they sell those at the Lexus or Audi dealerships.  :)  My parents are Bogleheads, NOT Mustachians.

Lexus and Acura are the high end version of Toyota and Honda respectively.  They can get a CR-V or Rav4 Re-skin if that's really what floats their boat.

The comparable models are Lexus NX 200t and the Acura RDX.

Of course you could also point out to them that it's literally the same car as the CR-V/RAV4 but with some extra features that they probably don't need.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 11:16:33 AM by druth »

Megma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16264 on: December 22, 2016, 12:43:00 PM »


- This company specializes in leggings which are $25/pair! That is their most popular and least expensive item. Tops are $35. In case you are not familiar with leggings prices I recently bought a 6-pack of fleece lined leggings (ie the warmer thicker kind) for $30 on Amazon.


Could you share the link? I've had horrible luck with leggings for myself and daughter on 'zon.

I bought these: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JBQRWB8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This company has some different combinations of # of pair and color combos. This is a multi-pack which suited my needs. I will say that I would not recommend these to someone taller than 5'6" as they'll be too short.

Also I wholeheartedly agree with IowaJess and everyone else who said LuLaRoe are UGLY prints. Almost all of the designs make me think "middle-aged+ teacher." Nothing about the prints say "classy, stylish, young professional" to me and while I might not hit that definition very often, it's usually what I'm aiming for.

Yes they also sell solid color leggings but apparently those are really hard to come by (as Iowajess said, the consultants can't choose what they are sent, the company sends what they want), especially black. I don't know about you but almost all of my leggings are solid black to wear under dresses in the winter.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 01:49:01 PM by Megma »

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16265 on: December 22, 2016, 02:19:51 PM »
Why don't you point them to a Subaru or CR-V or RAV4?

I don't think they sell those at the Lexus or Audi dealerships.  :)  My parents are Bogleheads, NOT Mustachians.

You'd be surprised what you can find at Lexus dealerships: http://www.dchlexusofoxnard.com/VehicleSearchResults?make=Honda

ender

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16266 on: December 22, 2016, 02:23:28 PM »
Why don't you point them to a Subaru or CR-V or RAV4?

I don't think they sell those at the Lexus or Audi dealerships.  :)  My parents are Bogleheads, NOT Mustachians.

You'd be surprised what you can find at Lexus dealerships: http://www.dchlexusofoxnard.com/VehicleSearchResults?make=Honda

What mere plebeian would buy a used car?


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Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16267 on: December 22, 2016, 03:07:01 PM »
Why don't you point them to a Subaru or CR-V or RAV4?

I don't think they sell those at the Lexus or Audi dealerships.  :)  My parents are Bogleheads, NOT Mustachians.

You'd be surprised what you can find at Lexus dealerships: http://www.dchlexusofoxnard.com/VehicleSearchResults?make=Honda

What mere plebeian would buy a used car?


pfffft!

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JLee

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16268 on: December 22, 2016, 03:14:43 PM »
We had a huge thread(part) on this once, and all agreed that 4WD is useless. If you drive summer tires. And 2 motorised wheels with winter tires is way better then 4WD with summer tires. And if a 2 wheel car with winter tires is "skating" then 4WD dont have any grip too.

I believe if the thread found that 4wd was useless it did not come to the correct conclusion. There are certainly situations that 4wd is not the answer to, and it's not always worth the cost upgrade, but there are real-world driving applications where a vehicle with more ground clearance and four powered wheels is quite superior to a 2wd car.
Okay, I reword this:
4WD in summer tires is useless compared to 2WD with winter tires. 4WD with winter tires is still better then 2WD with winter tires. But not much based on "normal" climates (not 6 month canadian winter with minimum 20cm snow on every street). That said, I have plowed through 20cm snow with a small car and only front drive - you just need the right tires. Most important safety part except the brakes.

Yep, this is exactly right.  AWD with all-seasons handles far worse than a 2 wheel drive car with snow tires in any winter situation you're ever likely to find yourself in. 

Well that is quite the loaded statement. What kind of AWD are we talking about? The Honda version of the late 90's where it only comes into play if the front wheels slip? Or something like an Outback in which it is a real AWD system? Does 2WD mean RWD like a Miata or FWD like a SAAB?

I'd have taken my SAAB in all seasons over just about anything in snow tires. I'd take any AWD vehicle in all seasons over my Miata on snow tires--Hell, I'd say that on anything but ice the FWD Corolla with all seasons was better than the Miata on snow tires and an under-steer setup.

BTW, the SAAB in snows was unstoppable. The only thing I've drive that was better was a 4Runner in snows. But the SAAB in all seasons was good enough for 99% of what I saw--which is to say a very snowy area, the only time it got stopped was when the snow was 3 feet high.

Unless you need to stop or turn?

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horsepoor

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16269 on: December 22, 2016, 05:05:46 PM »
If you need 4WD on a mud road what kind of shape are you leaving it in for the next driver?

Used intelligently, 4WD can actually reduce the wear and tear on a muddy road.  The other day I was towing my trailer into a dirt driveway that was soggy and starting to thaw.  Slipped a bit, so I hopped out, turned in the hubs, put the truck in 4-high and made it up the driveway easily and without burning out ruts trying to find some traction.  Went back and checked and there was about 2" ruts right where I'd first slipped before switching to 4WD, and none after.  I've had a similar experience towing horses out of a slightly sloped driveway with packed snow/ice.  Having all 4 wheels pushing was critical to pulling  the trailer out smoothly.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16270 on: December 23, 2016, 01:53:39 AM »
Here's what to do:  Mix up a solution of 1/3 water and 2/3 isopropyl/rubbing alcohol.  Put it in a spray bottle.  You can also store a spray bottle of this stuff in your car.  Spray your windshield (and other car windows).  Instant melt, frost all gone :-)

Plus if you ever get in a traffic accident, be sure to discretely spritz a little on the other party before the police show up to save hundreds in insurance premiums! /s

Back on topic: My office is open 50 weeks a year. For union voodoo reasons everyone gets a set rate over those 50 weeks and then signs a form to have it reduced slightly and annualised so they don't "miss" a paycheque at Christmas. Today the HR lady was chasing my boss down because he hadn't filled in his form (he's near retirement, has his shit together, presumably values the money sooner in the year so it can be invested and just live on savings for the Christmas break*)

My coworker told her "Oh, he didn't return it because he doesn't want to."

HR lady: "But if I don't get this form in he won't be getting paid!"

I reassured her too but eventually she had to call the boss and even then it was such an edge case that she needed to pull him back from where he was to come into her office and confirm it in person too. I thought it was funny that the "default" option is the one that requires a multi-page contract printed in duplicate and handed in person to all 300 members of staff and returned by a set date.

*Since we had our conversation I've realised that mathematically I should be doing this too. I'm still new to the Mustachianism thing so I still feel like I'll just overspend the "extra" money and not come out any further ahead. Whats the future value of an extra couple bucks a week (lets say $40) spread over a year if just my bank gives 3% p.a.?

In Canada there is the debate about having a large return or filing T1213 to reduce the amount of tax deducted from one's paycheque. I've tended to go with maximizing my paycheques. For me the different is around 300$ per paycheque though.

I do get what you mean about feeling "like I'll just overspend the 'extra' money and not come out any further ahead." The words of _The Wealthy Barber_ may help. "Pay yourself first" he says. If you have any debts (myself student loans), assign that 40$/week to the debt before you plan to spend it. Heck, some lovely lunatics ;) adventurous individuals on this forum would even try to gamify your situation and not spend anything in the two weeks.

Not to mention that the form is a pain, you need to show proof of your deductions (e.g., self directed RRSP), it takes a couple of months to receive the approval...approval is not automatic and you can be denied if your prior year was under paid or something... then you need to repeat it every year.

Metta

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16271 on: December 23, 2016, 07:44:06 AM »
Because my workplace has become much less pleasant over the last few years, many of my co-workers have expressed envy that I can choose to leave (7 days left and counting). I kind of thought that my ability to leave, cheerfully, kindly, and with solid work behind me would have left an impression. Or the fact that we've amassed a pile of cash. (Everyone wants to know how that happened). People are quizzing me so intensely that I'm thinking of having cards printed up with a link to the "The Shockingly Simple Math Behind Early Retirement" and handing them out.

In the midst of all of these questions and sudden enthusiasm for early retirement, I was surprised to stop by one of my favorite colleagues' desk to find that she is pricing plots of land and is planning to have a house built for her on the land. (She currently lives with just one other person in a fairly large house, so she doesn't actually need extra space.)

"No, no, Emmie!" I said. "Don't you want to be free?"

"Yeah." she said.

"Don't you want to be free more than you want a larger house?"

"No, I want the house."

So there you have it. Not really a reason to mock her. She knows what she wants. But still, why pine for retirement if you are actively choosing not to pursue it?

Debts_of_Despair

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16272 on: December 23, 2016, 08:45:56 AM »
Employee A asks employee B why he isn't retiring eventhough he is fully vested and ready to collect pension equal to 60% of salary for life.  Employee B says pension isn't enough, will still have $1400 shortfall each month.  By my estimation, this means he is spending close to 85% of his salary to maintain his lifestyle and apparently he can't give up any of it.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16273 on: December 23, 2016, 09:51:19 AM »
Employee A asks employee B why he isn't retiring eventhough he is fully vested and ready to collect pension equal to 60% of salary for life.  Employee B says pension isn't enough, will still have $1400 shortfall each month.  By my estimation, this means he is spending close to 85% of his salary to maintain his lifestyle and apparently he can't give up any of it.

Wow, and this is accounting for work related costs also? Wow.

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16274 on: December 23, 2016, 10:15:44 AM »
Employee A asks employee B why he isn't retiring eventhough he is fully vested and ready to collect pension equal to 60% of salary for life.  Employee B says pension isn't enough, will still have $1400 shortfall each month.  By my estimation, this means he is spending close to 85% of his salary to maintain his lifestyle and apparently he can't give up any of it.

Wow, and this is accounting for work related costs also? Wow.

... Which also means he's spent a standard working career earning a decent amount of money, and presumably still has a mortgage (or his monthly bills would be lower) and no other savings (to make up that shortfall).

Ann

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16275 on: December 23, 2016, 10:18:34 AM »
....Wow, and this is accounting for work related costs also? Wow.

I always hear of work-related costs.  I guess I'm lucky -- my work gives me a clothing stipend (scrubs, anyway).  My continuing education costs / license costs are reimbursed.  Going out to eat is a choice -- when I worked overnights it was actually IMPOSSIBLE to order out because everything was closed.  I choose to live close to work so I incur way more wear-and-tear travel costs on my days off because I travel out of the city to see friends then.  I even use less electricity on work days because I'm not at home for large stretches of time.

I understand for some people they may be required to wear suits, dry clean them, or choose commute long distances to work (gas plus car wear-and-tear) and may be swayed to eat out more due to a certain work place culture.   But what are the work costs to the Mustachian?  For people even better than I, they would be biking to work anyway?  What are their hidden work costs?


Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16276 on: December 23, 2016, 10:21:20 AM »
Employee A asks employee B why he isn't retiring eventhough he is fully vested and ready to collect pension equal to 60% of salary for life.  Employee B says pension isn't enough, will still have $1400 shortfall each month.  By my estimation, this means he is spending close to 85% of his salary to maintain his lifestyle and apparently he can't give up any of it.

Wow, and this is accounting for work related costs also? Wow.

... Which also means he's spent a standard working career earning a decent amount of money, and presumably still has a mortgage (or his monthly bills would be lower) and no other savings (to make up that shortfall).

Yes, maybe a cash out mortgage or multiple bigger houses along the way?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16277 on: December 23, 2016, 10:29:12 AM »
Employee A asks employee B why he isn't retiring eventhough he is fully vested and ready to collect pension equal to 60% of salary for life.  Employee B says pension isn't enough, will still have $1400 shortfall each month.  By my estimation, this means he is spending close to 85% of his salary to maintain his lifestyle and apparently he can't give up any of it.

Couldnt he just leave and get another job and still get all the money, or do the pension rules prohibit that?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16278 on: December 23, 2016, 10:56:59 AM »
Employee A asks employee B why he isn't retiring eventhough he is fully vested and ready to collect pension equal to 60% of salary for life.  Employee B says pension isn't enough, will still have $1400 shortfall each month.  By my estimation, this means he is spending close to 85% of his salary to maintain his lifestyle and apparently he can't give up any of it.

Wow, and this is accounting for work related costs also? Wow.

Oh I left out one of the best parts: He is one of the very few people left with a company car with fully paid gas, insurance and maintenance.  Could have saved a TON of money over the years but it was obviously used to inflate said lifestyle.

Debts_of_Despair

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16279 on: December 23, 2016, 11:00:02 AM »
Employee A asks employee B why he isn't retiring eventhough he is fully vested and ready to collect pension equal to 60% of salary for life.  Employee B says pension isn't enough, will still have $1400 shortfall each month.  By my estimation, this means he is spending close to 85% of his salary to maintain his lifestyle and apparently he can't give up any of it.

Couldnt he just leave and get another job and still get all the money, or do the pension rules prohibit that?

It is permitted but he said something along the lines of his best option is to stay here I terms of salary.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16280 on: December 23, 2016, 11:06:07 AM »
Employee A asks employee B why he isn't retiring eventhough he is fully vested and ready to collect pension equal to 60% of salary for life.  Employee B says pension isn't enough, will still have $1400 shortfall each month.  By my estimation, this means he is spending close to 85% of his salary to maintain his lifestyle and apparently he can't give up any of it.

Couldnt he just leave and get another job and still get all the money, or do the pension rules prohibit that?

It is permitted but he said something along the lines of his best option is to stay here I terms of salary.

Sometimes, depending on the setup of the pension, it can be a huge disservice to yourself if you leave after retirement age for a new job--espeically if the new job is for a short term.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16281 on: December 23, 2016, 11:48:56 AM »
Employee A asks employee B why he isn't retiring eventhough he is fully vested and ready to collect pension equal to 60% of salary for life.  Employee B says pension isn't enough, will still have $1400 shortfall each month.  By my estimation, this means he is spending close to 85% of his salary to maintain his lifestyle and apparently he can't give up any of it.

Couldnt he just leave and get another job and still get all the money, or do the pension rules prohibit that?

Is the pension increasing as he delays taking it?

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16282 on: December 23, 2016, 05:01:32 PM »
Employee A asks employee B why he isn't retiring eventhough he is fully vested and ready to collect pension equal to 60% of salary for life.  Employee B says pension isn't enough, will still have $1400 shortfall each month.  By my estimation, this means he is spending close to 85% of his salary to maintain his lifestyle and apparently he can't give up any of it.

Couldnt he just leave and get another job and still get all the money, or do the pension rules prohibit that?

Is the pension increasing as he delays taking it?

It likely does as a matter of percentage and also because the base salary will be higher.  Those old-school pensions are really golden handcuffs in that way.  It's usually a calculation like:

years of service * highest annual salary * SomeConstant

Since each year your highest annual salary likely goes up, and your years of service go up, it's like exponential growth (at least more than linear)

Debts_of_Despair

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16283 on: December 23, 2016, 05:05:53 PM »
Employee A asks employee B why he isn't retiring eventhough he is fully vested and ready to collect pension equal to 60% of salary for life.  Employee B says pension isn't enough, will still have $1400 shortfall each month.  By my estimation, this means he is spending close to 85% of his salary to maintain his lifestyle and apparently he can't give up any of it.

Couldnt he just leave and get another job and still get all the money, or do the pension rules prohibit that?

Is the pension increasing as he delays taking it?

Yes, but he would probably be dead by the time it caught up to said fancy pants lifestyle.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16284 on: December 24, 2016, 11:29:48 AM »
As someone who works in an office filled with 18-35 year old nerds, I have a really hard time picturing how anything would get done if we suddenly had women walking around the place in leggings.

It would probably trigger a company-wide alert by the end of the day.

Several women wear leggings at my work on the regular, but very few of them who do have BMIs under 30. Better just to look at your screen.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16285 on: December 24, 2016, 11:39:41 AM »
Coworker in building says they don't want to take a promotion because the increase in salary will negatively impact the amount of aid their child will receive for college.  TBH, I'm not completely familiar with the FAFSA process but this seems like a bad idea for the long term.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16286 on: December 24, 2016, 03:30:44 PM »
Coworker in building says they don't want to take a promotion because the increase in salary will negatively impact the amount of aid their child will receive for college.  TBH, I'm not completely familiar with the FAFSA process but this seems like a bad idea for the long term.

The FAFSA formulas essentially work like a tax. You get to exclude some income, like the standard deduction and exemption. Then anything over that amount is called the Adjusted Available Income (AAI) and it gets "taxed" along a progressive scale towards your Expected Family Contribution (EFC). The top "tax" rate on income is 47%. So for a parent whose kid is currently eligible for financial aid, in the 25% federal tax bracket, and let's say a 6% state income tax bracket, who also falls into this top rate on AAI for FAFSA (definitely feasible for these brackets to coincide, as an AAI of $32k+ falls into the 47% bracket for EFC), will experience an effective marginal "tax rate" of 85.65% (I added 7.65% for FICA - that's SS and Medicare taxes). So the effective marginal "tax" rate isn't over 100%, but it's getting damn close.

Just for fun, it is actually feasible for an increase in income to actually decrease aid under two scenarios for dependent students. Neither of these are likely to apply to your coworker.

1) If a dependent student's parents could have filed a 1040A or 1040EZ, or didn't have to file any taxes, and their combined income was less than $50k, then the student qualifies for the simplified EFC calculation. Under this simplified EFC calculation, all assets are excluded from the EFC calculation.

2) If a dependent student's parents meet the above conditions, in addition to having an income less than $25k, then the EFC is automatically zero.

These two exceptions are GREAT news for Mustachians who retire before their kids go to college.

Keep your total income under $50k and all of your assets get excluded from the EFC calculation. Your assets are "taxed" at ~12% (there's a "standard deduction here that varies by age and stuff but it's not that big by Mustachian portfolio standards - up to $30k at most). So if you've got $1M in assets, it would normally add $120k to the EFC, but that portion gets dropped to zero! (You still have an EFC from your income).

Keep your total income under $25k and your EFC is zero!

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16287 on: December 24, 2016, 04:03:51 PM »
Coworker in building says they don't want to take a promotion because the increase in salary will negatively impact the amount of aid their child will receive for college.  TBH, I'm not completely familiar with the FAFSA process but this seems like a bad idea for the long term.

The FAFSA formulas essentially work like a tax. You get to exclude some income, like the standard deduction and exemption. Then anything over that amount is called the Adjusted Available Income (AAI) and it gets "taxed" along a progressive scale towards your Expected Family Contribution (EFC). The top "tax" rate on income is 47%. So for a parent whose kid is currently eligible for financial aid, in the 25% federal tax bracket, and let's say a 6% state income tax bracket, who also falls into this top rate on AAI for FAFSA (definitely feasible for these brackets to coincide, as an AAI of $32k+ falls into the 47% bracket for EFC), will experience an effective marginal "tax rate" of 85.65% (I added 7.65% for FICA - that's SS and Medicare taxes). So the effective marginal "tax" rate isn't over 100%, but it's getting damn close.

Just for fun, it is actually feasible for an increase in income to actually decrease aid under two scenarios for dependent students. Neither of these are likely to apply to your coworker.

1) If a dependent student's parents could have filed a 1040A or 1040EZ, or didn't have to file any taxes, and their combined income was less than $50k, then the student qualifies for the simplified EFC calculation. Under this simplified EFC calculation, all assets are excluded from the EFC calculation.

2) If a dependent student's parents meet the above conditions, in addition to having an income less than $25k, then the EFC is automatically zero.

These two exceptions are GREAT news for Mustachians who retire before their kids go to college.

Keep your total income under $50k and all of your assets get excluded from the EFC calculation. Your assets are "taxed" at ~12% (there's a "standard deduction here that varies by age and stuff but it's not that big by Mustachian portfolio standards - up to $30k at most). So if you've got $1M in assets, it would normally add $120k to the EFC, but that portion gets dropped to zero! (You still have an EFC from your income).

Keep your total income under $25k and your EFC is zero!

Wow, that really is great news.  Hope it's still true in a couple decades :-P

johnny847

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16288 on: December 24, 2016, 04:22:57 PM »
Coworker in building says they don't want to take a promotion because the increase in salary will negatively impact the amount of aid their child will receive for college.  TBH, I'm not completely familiar with the FAFSA process but this seems like a bad idea for the long term.

*bunch of stuff about FAFSA*

Wow, that really is great news.  Hope it's still true in a couple decades :-P

Haha that's the rub right? People definitely shouldn't retire now with a portfolio size that is dependent on the FAFSA rules remaining the same more than a couple years out at most.

By the way, the requirement of could have filed 1040A or 1040EZ can be a bit of a problem. It requires you to not file schedule D (for capital gains) - so no [EDIT: just selling] buying or selling of any securities. You can, however, receive capital gains distributions and dividends without having to file schedule D. So this is one corner case where you might actually be better off with a high dividend yield fund as opposed to a broad market fund.
And if I remember correctly you can't take any HSA withdrawals either, though I could be mistaken. And there are definitely more things that require the 1040.

Still doable if you plan it right though =)
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 10:16:40 AM by johnny847 »

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16289 on: December 24, 2016, 07:30:58 PM »
Coworker in building says they don't want to take a promotion because the increase in salary will negatively impact the amount of aid their child will receive for college.  TBH, I'm not completely familiar with the FAFSA process but this seems like a bad idea for the long term.

*bunch of stuff about FAFSA*

Wow, that really is great news.  Hope it's still true in a couple decades :-P

Haha that's the rub right? People definitely shouldn't retire now with a portfolio size that is dependent on the FAFSA rules remaining the same more than a couple years out at most.

By the way, the requirement of could have filed 1040A or 1040EZ can be a bit of a problem. It requires you to not file schedule D (for capital gains) - so no buying or selling of any securities. You can, however, receive capital gains distributions and dividends without having to file schedule D. So this is one corner case where you might actually be better off with a high dividend yield fund as opposed to a broad market fund.
And if I remember correctly you can't take any HSA withdrawals either, though I could be mistaken. And there are definitely more things that require the 1040.

Still doable if you plan it right though =)
I think even HSA contributions kick you off of 1040A and EZ.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16290 on: December 26, 2016, 04:11:32 PM »
I had a good story at work before the holidays.   My colleague and her partner decided to send one of their children to a private school in the hopes that he would work harder and improve his marks.    The private school costs around $30K/year in tuition fees.

Unfortunately, the school is located on the other side of the city.   After a few months of commuting, they decided to buy a second home closer to the school, so they wouldn't have to commute cross-town if they didn't feel like it.

In truth, I'm not completely sure what to make of this.


Actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.

scottish

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16291 on: December 26, 2016, 04:59:46 PM »
yes, well they *are* a bit more consumer oriented than me.
Actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16292 on: December 27, 2016, 09:19:54 AM »
Scottish,

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that their 'consumer' orientation could be a reason why they have a child that lacks a work ethic.

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16293 on: December 27, 2016, 10:25:21 AM »
yes, well they *are* a bit more consumer oriented than me.

They are ridiculous wealthy, right?

***BTW, first time poster, long time lurker. Can't believe I read this entire thread! ***

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16294 on: December 27, 2016, 10:30:07 AM »
My colleague and her partner decided to send one of their children to a private school in the hopes that he would work harder and improve his marks.    The private school costs around $30K/year in tuition fees.

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind this decision. If your kid doesn't give a shit about school, achievements, self-improvement, etc. then how is throwing $30K at the problem going to fix it? Is the kid old enough to be reasoned with and understand that without good grades it is unlikely he can continue his spendypants lifestyle? Maybe a drive through the ghetto is in order.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16295 on: December 27, 2016, 10:55:22 AM »
I had a good story at work before the holidays.   My colleague and her partner decided to send one of their children to a private school in the hopes that he would work harder and improve his marks.    The private school costs around $30K/year in tuition fees.

Unfortunately, the school is located on the other side of the city.   After a few months of commuting, they decided to buy a second home closer to the school, so they wouldn't have to commute cross-town if they didn't feel like it.

In truth, I'm not completely sure what to make of this.
Wait! What do they plan on doing with the other offspring when they're staying in the second home? More details, please.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16296 on: December 27, 2016, 11:40:30 AM »
My colleague and her partner decided to send one of their children to a private school in the hopes that he would work harder and improve his marks.    The private school costs around $30K/year in tuition fees.

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind this decision. If your kid doesn't give a shit about school, achievements, self-improvement, etc. then how is throwing $30K at the problem going to fix it? Is the kid old enough to be reasoned with and understand that without good grades it is unlikely he can continue his spendypants lifestyle? Maybe a drive through the ghetto is in order.
A drive through the ghetto or an underprivileged neighborhood isn't the solution. Kid needs to walk the streets and maybe live there for a week. Or volunteer at least 5 hours a day for a few weeks. Then kid may realize what he has is not normal.
Source: I've taken college students to low-income neighborhoods to volunteer. I don't call them ghettos as that word has a historical meaning.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16297 on: December 27, 2016, 11:45:37 AM »
My colleague and her partner decided to send one of their children to a private school in the hopes that he would work harder and improve his marks.    The private school costs around $30K/year in tuition fees.

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind this decision. If your kid doesn't give a shit about school, achievements, self-improvement, etc. then how is throwing $30K at the problem going to fix it? Is the kid old enough to be reasoned with and understand that without good grades it is unlikely he can continue his spendypants lifestyle? Maybe a drive through the ghetto is in order.

The logic is faulty but I still understand the decision. Many people would rather throw money at a problem than put in time and effort

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16298 on: December 27, 2016, 02:57:54 PM »
I think their kid *is* doing reasonably well at school, he's just not overachieving.    I've noticed that a lot of parents - especially parents who immigrated to Canada - really want their kids to overachieve.     Acceptance at a popular Canadian university often seems to be the difference between a 95% average and a 96% average - which is really no difference at all.   Fortunately the universities are starting to ask for more involved applications including community involvement, portfolios showing projects the kids have done and so on.

They aren't fabulously wealthy, but do have 2 good engineering type incomes.    By nature they are real estate investors and more comfortable with real estate than the stock market or bonds.     So I can see the second home purchase as an investment, it's just that there's no rental income attached to it.
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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #16299 on: December 27, 2016, 10:38:08 PM »
I think their kid *is* doing reasonably well at school, he's just not overachieving.    I've noticed that a lot of parents - especially parents who immigrated to Canada - really want their kids to overachieve.     Acceptance at a popular Canadian university often seems to be the difference between a 95% average and a 96% average - which is really no difference at all.   Fortunately the universities are starting to ask for more involved applications including community involvement, portfolios showing projects the kids have done and so on.

They aren't fabulously wealthy, but do have 2 good engineering type incomes.    By nature they are real estate investors and more comfortable with real estate than the stock market or bonds.     So I can see the second home purchase as an investment, it's just that there's no rental income attached to it.

In certain provinces (cough like Ontario) mark inflation is rampant. Graduation classes where there are a shocking amount of students with 95+% averages are not uncommon. It is really a corrosive system. Kids go to university with A grades and discover they are really a C or B student.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 10:39:55 PM by kayvent »